Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News. I'm Hannah Elliott and
Speaker 1: I'm Matt Miller.
Speaker 2: This is Hot Pursuit.
Speaker 1: Coming up on today's podcast. We've got Constantine Bushman, the
Speaker 1: CEO and owner of Bravis, with us, and I am
Speaker 1: very excited to talk with him. Matt, this is a
Speaker 1: serious dude.
Speaker 2: Yeah he is, and he's done some amazing work with Bravis,
Speaker 2: so have all the people that work there, which was
Speaker 2: one of my takeaways. But I learned a lot more
Speaker 2: about the company than I had known before.
Speaker 1: So Constantine has really set it up as a design studio,
Speaker 1: which I think is really cool. You know, he's been
Speaker 1: with the company since he was very young. He became
Speaker 1: chief marketing officer when he was thirty four, and then
Speaker 1: when his father sadly passed away, he took over the
Speaker 1: company and has really expanded it into being way more
Speaker 1: than just like a body kit, which is maybe how
Speaker 1: if you're not paying attention, you might think that's what
Speaker 1: it is, but oh no. And they've also got a
Speaker 1: new car out too that I can't wait to talk
Speaker 1: to him about.
Speaker 2: Great, which is kind of the crowning achievement of his
Speaker 2: tenure so far. I think and a dedication to the
Speaker 2: business that his father started. We're also going to talk
Speaker 2: about BMW's. We've been driving a lot of them. I
Speaker 2: just recently bought one, and maybe they make too many, right, Yeah.
Speaker 1: I kind of think we don't need the M four.
Speaker 1: It's actually no shade to the M four. It's just
Speaker 1: that the M two, especially the CS, is so good.
Speaker 1: It's like, why do you need to pay more for
Speaker 1: an inferior car?
Speaker 2: I mean, I guess the reason is you want a
Speaker 2: little bit more space, right, the M four is a
Speaker 2: little bit bigger, But in that case you could go
Speaker 2: with the M eight. I mean, I feel like you
Speaker 2: go one way or the other. There's no reason so many.
Speaker 1: We do not need to be mid here and I
Speaker 1: the M two. I the M two was such a revelation.
Speaker 1: I haven't driven a BMW in a minute. Probably the
Speaker 1: last one I drove was last year in Miami, and
Speaker 1: I instantly loved it. It's got such an attitude, and
Speaker 1: the CS, of course has that little duct tail on
Speaker 1: the end and the full racer boy grill that people
Speaker 1: love and hate, and I just love that. Uh yeah,
Speaker 1: it did. Actually, come to think of it, I didn't
Speaker 1: spend much time in the backseat. But yes, you know
Speaker 1: what it did. Now. They both both the M two
Speaker 1: and the M four have that three leader twin turbot
Speaker 1: in line six, so it's not like the M four
Speaker 1: gives you any real more performance. In fact, I thought
Speaker 1: the M two was punchier and more direct and just
Speaker 1: all around a tighter, more nimble, more serious driving. I
Speaker 1: also really liked the interior. I thought the bucket seats
Speaker 1: were actually I love that they cradle you and really
Speaker 1: hold you in. But they're also adjustable, because my big
Speaker 1: complaint with like actual sport racing seats is that you
Speaker 1: can't adjust the back and they're not very comfortable to
Speaker 1: just drive. But these are adjustable, but still they hold
Speaker 1: you in really tightly. But also they have like the
Speaker 1: cutouts and the sides of the seats where you can
Speaker 1: put your hands. I just I love that. I thought
Speaker 1: the screens were fine, not overpowering, very straightforward. Everything sinked.
Speaker 1: There weren't a lot of layers to get to essential controls.
Speaker 1: It just seemed everything made sense. There was nothing there
Speaker 1: that you didn't need. I really liked it. I even
Speaker 1: thought that the multiple textures inside with the carbon fiber,
Speaker 1: and you know some of these other details that and
Speaker 1: the colors can get a little well, usually they get
Speaker 1: a little too much, but here it just all felt
Speaker 1: very of a kind.
Speaker 2: I love the interior, especially the different textures and colors,
Speaker 2: and the design I thought was really cool. You kind
Speaker 2: of have to see it to understand what we're talking about.
Speaker 3: But they have.
Speaker 2: This really sweet BMW kind of I don't know, it's
Speaker 2: not engraving or embossing. I don't know what it is.
Speaker 2: But on the on the door cards, that's great.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: One place that I one place that I can't agree
Speaker 4: is the screens. I don't I don't understand you approved
Speaker 4: the installation of these screens. It looks like they're just
Speaker 4: like glued on to the dash.
Speaker 3: If you get it, you.
Speaker 2: Get into an accident and the passenger hits the corner
Speaker 2: of the very squared off screen with his head, it's
Speaker 2: gonna be a diaster. And it's compared to the previous generation,
Speaker 2: which you know, my neighbor Eric had the old M
Speaker 2: two and now he has the M four GTS from
Speaker 2: twenty sixteen.
Speaker 3: That setup is just so much better.
Speaker 2: A smaller you know, has still everything you need on it.
Speaker 2: And physical buttons for the stuff that you're going to
Speaker 2: be doing often. I think they made a real mistake,
Speaker 2: and I imagine they'll go back away from this giant
Speaker 2: screen in the center. Does anybody actually want those?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I actually didn't think it was that big a screen,
Speaker 1: and I had a feeling you would say that. So's
Speaker 1: that's why I'm surprised myself. It didn't bother me, because
Speaker 1: to me, the alternative is putting that embedded in the dash,
Speaker 1: and I just think for this car, which feels super
Speaker 1: racey anyway, I don't want anything more in the dash.
Speaker 1: I don't want anything that bulks it up even more so.
Speaker 2: I mean previously they just had a smaller screen. It
Speaker 2: was like a little iPad coming out of the center stack.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 1: I wonder totally, and I know that we have seene
Speaker 1: automakers sort of revert back to analog controls. Multiple automakers
Speaker 1: have done this. I don't know. I don't see any
Speaker 1: indication that they're gonna do that with the screens, like
Speaker 1: take like remove or make dashboard screens smaller. I'm not
Speaker 1: seeing that at all. I could be wrong, but I
Speaker 1: would be really surprised. I just don't.
Speaker 2: Understand what you want of these giant screens. You know,
Speaker 2: one one screen in the dashboard for all the information
Speaker 2: that you need makes sense. And frankly, some companies like Bentley,
Speaker 2: you know they have that screen that rolls away.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you flip screen, you don't.
Speaker 2: Have to see it anymore. Exactly in the old BMW
Speaker 2: screens that came out of the center of the dash
Speaker 2: they always look like they could have been submerged, like
Speaker 2: you could push a button then they would hear, and
Speaker 2: that would be absolutely brilliant. I don't know why automakers
Speaker 2: don't do that other than the cost, right, I guess
Speaker 2: it's probably, yeah, very expensive to build them, which is
Speaker 2: why only Bentley has a disappearance.
Speaker 1: Well, I think we you know, in the coming weeks
Speaker 1: we can tease that we have mister Marizio Reggiani on
Speaker 1: formerly of Lamborghini. We should ask him about some of
Speaker 1: these things because now that he's not with Lamborghini, he
Speaker 1: might be a little bit freer to talk with us
Speaker 1: about some of the thought processes these that go into
Speaker 1: making those decisions because to us it seems so obvious,
Speaker 1: but I know there are lots of other factors involved.
Speaker 2: Well, I think it's mainly cost cutting, right, They won't
Speaker 2: want to make things cheaper. The reason that you don't
Speaker 2: have a handbrake, the reason that you don't have a
Speaker 2: manual option, the reason that you don't have physical buttons
Speaker 2: and knobs is that it's cheaper.
Speaker 1: And then there's a big marketing luxury brand. Well, I know,
Speaker 1: and certainly nobody buys a luxury cars that because they
Speaker 1: want it to feel cheaper or like we're cost cutting
Speaker 1: or penny pinching here. That's that's not why you're buying
Speaker 1: these cars. So, yeah, it is a fair point. It
Speaker 1: is a fair point, and I do think actually Constantine
Speaker 1: with Brabas has kind of hit on what you're saying,
Speaker 1: Like they offer all these expensive things that OEMs can't
Speaker 1: or won't do because of the cost, you know, And
Speaker 1: that's probably one reason why Brabas is so alluring to
Speaker 1: a lot of people who can afford it, because they're
Speaker 1: doing all the extras that like you're not going to
Speaker 1: get from an OEM.
Speaker 2: That's why you're seeing a lot more companies, not Brobas,
Speaker 2: but others offer manual swaps or people talking about manuals
Speaker 2: and so many, so many vehicles because the OEMs can't
Speaker 2: or won't do it, and now aftermarket companies have to
Speaker 2: take that into their own hands. So what did you
Speaker 2: think about the fact that there's no manual option with
Speaker 2: the CS on the M two. Is it all?
Speaker 1: Yes? And I don't have an ego attached to this.
Speaker 1: I don't need like a stick shift to feel cool
Speaker 1: or whatever, and I don't think it makes sense to
Speaker 1: have it in a lot of cars, but this would
Speaker 1: be the car to have it in for sure as
Speaker 1: an option. It would make a thousand just something very short,
Speaker 1: a very quick short shift transmission would be really really
Speaker 1: fun and would sort of be the cherry on top.
Speaker 2: I could imagine buying like for real and M two
Speaker 2: instead of you know, stepping up to a nine to eleven.
Speaker 2: So I think it does actually offer some competition just
Speaker 2: on price, right, you're saving one hundred grand.
Speaker 1: Totally totally, but I would buy.
Speaker 2: But I would buy the base M two because you
Speaker 2: can get it with a stick I don't need the
Speaker 2: extra you know, there's a horse power boost that you
Speaker 2: get I don't know, twenty or thirty more horsepower with
Speaker 2: a CS. I don't really need that. I love the
Speaker 2: duct tail you can put it on aut of it.
Speaker 3: And with the base.
Speaker 2: You know, you can get a one or two year
Speaker 2: old M two, same generation based with a stick for
Speaker 2: like seventy grand no problem with you know, ten or
Speaker 2: twenty thousand miles.
Speaker 3: To me, it's a no brain.
Speaker 1: That's a really I think that's a really really smart
Speaker 1: move because you get so much car for a really
Speaker 1: good value. And that also reminds me, like going back
Speaker 1: to the M four, the M four comes with you know,
Speaker 1: like an extra extreme looking race livery with Riviera blue
Speaker 1: color and like this anthracite detailing, and it's supposed to
Speaker 1: look really extreme, even more extreme than the M two.
Speaker 1: And they also charge more. The M four is like
Speaker 1: one hundred and twenty four or so starting. I don't
Speaker 1: think you need any of that. Back to your point,
Speaker 1: I would just buy the entry level M two and
Speaker 1: then add on those all those little things.
Speaker 3: That you want, if you need.
Speaker 1: If you need. But yeah, like I don't need to.
Speaker 1: I don't need some race stripes on an M four
Speaker 1: to to feel more extreme. It's actually a less extreme
Speaker 1: car by the way. Oh gosh, yes, this is.
Speaker 2: Wanted to get into it for a second to to
Speaker 2: understand and share it with everybody.
Speaker 1: Thank you. I do appreciate it because I have become obsessed.
Speaker 1: And this actually is very linked to cars and motorcycles.
Speaker 1: It's linked to anything loud. But how I came to
Speaker 1: it was from cars, and I honestly I came through
Speaker 1: it because Magnus has Tonightis, which he got from cars
Speaker 1: and going to concerts when he was fourteen in Sheffield
Speaker 1: and standing next to the speakers, and I saw how
Speaker 1: it was affecting him and it became this thing where
Speaker 1: it was like everybody knows someone at least who has tonightis,
Speaker 1: which is a sort of a phantom ringing in your ears.
Speaker 1: It's ringing or humming or scratching that is not from
Speaker 1: an external source, and it's not hearing loss. It's related
Speaker 1: and the biggest cause of Tonight's is sound exposure. But
Speaker 1: it's just this big thing that a lot of people
Speaker 1: have and not a lot of people talk about. There's
Speaker 1: not a lot there's not a lot of research. There's
Speaker 1: only one FDA approved treatment for tonightas there's a lot
Speaker 1: of smoking, smoke and mirrors and snake oil out there.
Speaker 1: But it does affect a lot of people, especially men,
Speaker 1: especially veterans, and you even mentioned Matt. You know, car drivers,
Speaker 1: race car drivers, tons of musicians. So I did become
Speaker 1: obsessed with it because the health of your ears is
Speaker 1: related to brain health, which is related to cognitive health,
Speaker 1: which is related to everything. I mean, We're so everybody
Speaker 1: is obsessed with living longer and living healthier and longevity,
Speaker 1: but your brain health and your cognitive health is so important,
Speaker 1: and that's directly related to hearing.
Speaker 2: You know what, I've always felt like it's time for
Speaker 2: me to start protecting my ears. You're right. TV news
Speaker 2: anchors get it a lot because we're always we have
Speaker 2: the IFB in our ears, the same as you know,
Speaker 2: musicians have a say, the same problem, but and not
Speaker 2: so good at taking care of myself. So I don't
Speaker 2: wear ear plugs very often when I go to concerts
Speaker 2: or when I'm riding my motorcycle, and I should do
Speaker 2: it more often. But I love the sound of I
Speaker 2: love to stand next to the speakers just like Magnus,
Speaker 2: and I love the sound of the engine, you know,
Speaker 2: when I'm on the highway. It's a horrible affliction if
Speaker 2: you get tonit this. I mean, I just can't imagine
Speaker 2: having constant ringing in my ear and I think.
Speaker 3: I hope they do more research into it.
Speaker 1: Well, it's not too late for you, Matt. There are
Speaker 1: a lot of companies that are making very discrete hearing protection,
Speaker 1: like Euros and Loop. Eros actually even has a Hendrick
Speaker 1: Motor Motorsports partnership for ear protection. So yeah, I get it.
Speaker 1: I mean, even if you do wear either ear muffs,
Speaker 1: are in your plugs or anything like that, You'll still
Speaker 1: be able to hear your bike. You'll for sure.
Speaker 2: It's just a pain, like when you're putting on and
Speaker 2: taking off a helmet, put your plugs in under it.
Speaker 2: If you watch Moto GP, you'll see all of the
Speaker 2: pilots in Moto GP are wearing earplugs all the time.
Speaker 2: I should do it, but everyone should. It's just that
Speaker 2: we never really learn until it's too late. All right,
Speaker 2: let's get to Constantine. I mean I would I would
Speaker 2: just like to start by hearing more about Bravos Boatrup
Speaker 2: is up. I think by Cologne right a little bit
Speaker 2: north of and I know you as a maker of
Speaker 2: h like incredible aftermarket pieces that are in my experience,
Speaker 2: mostly based on Mercedes Benz tell us, tell us what
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 3: So first of all behind Matt Hay Hannah. It's so
Speaker 3: nice to be able to join you here from from Boatrop, Germany.
Speaker 3: You know, Brabas. This this litt sort of Gaelic village
Speaker 3: out of outside of the main location of the automotive
Speaker 3: industry in Germany, which is of course, you know, more
Speaker 3: to the south Bavaria Stutegart region. We're holding up the
Speaker 3: flag near near Disseldorf, Germany.
Speaker 1: In the diesel door the Netherlands.
Speaker 3: It's a nice city. We've been here since nineteen seventy seven,
Speaker 3: which is when my father started rob Us in the
Speaker 3: same town in Botrop, in the heart of what's called
Speaker 3: the Rua area, which is sort of like the imaginety
Speaker 3: as the Manchester of Germany industrial region. A lot of
Speaker 3: coal mining in Actually, I think everybody's grandfather was working
Speaker 3: in the opal lines. There's always a safe bet when
Speaker 3: you meet a new family from the same region. And
Speaker 3: he started in the seventies because his father had a
Speaker 3: car store, and then he was a big fan of
Speaker 3: sports cars. But his father had through his business and
Speaker 3: access to Mercedes Benz cars and there was the you
Speaker 3: know whatever. We all the things that we can summarize
Speaker 3: as the mega trend of individualization. You know, today you
Speaker 3: can inspect your Dell computer with custom parts, you can
Speaker 3: customize your Nike shoe. Everything of that sort did not exist.
Speaker 3: And my father, amongst very few other people, was a
Speaker 3: person who started going after that trend, hitting different steering
Speaker 3: wheels into cars, changing wheels and entire combinations, and just
Speaker 3: making cars look, feel and drive the way that he
Speaker 3: felt they should.
Speaker 1: I'm so curious about your dad when he started doing
Speaker 1: this in that time. My perception is that it was
Speaker 1: very almost sacrilegious to be doing these things to these
Speaker 1: beautiful cars. What was your dad like and what gave
Speaker 1: him that sort of attitude to be like, you know what,
Speaker 1: I'm going to do this. What was inside him that
Speaker 1: gave him that, you know, Smarity.
Speaker 3: So, first of all, there's a beautiful there's a beautiful
Speaker 3: photo that was taken of him driving an sl R
Speaker 3: one twenty nine in the nineties without the bonnet, without
Speaker 3: the hood, you know, and on the highway in Germany
Speaker 3: in a leather jacket and sunglasses. And that is that
Speaker 3: was taken by I keep forget either Auto Press, Stuteguard
Speaker 3: or Auto built, and it's still one of the most
Speaker 3: iconic pictures that we have because it very very clearly
Speaker 3: so it has everything brobises in one picture. And he
Speaker 3: was somebody that was a little bit of a renegade,
Speaker 3: typical first generation entrepreneur, typical patriarch, very very strong willed,
Speaker 3: very clear idea of what he wanted wanted in life,
Speaker 3: and he had believed me. He had loads of energy
Speaker 3: which made him which made him a fan of big engines.
Speaker 2: The motor is I mean the main part right. The
Speaker 2: eye is immediately drawn to the mega motor in that car.
Speaker 3: The sheer tenacity of that picture is that it contains everything.
Speaker 3: It is the whole idea, the attitude, the personality and
Speaker 3: everything that we still used to discrede you know, I
Speaker 3: still pull it up whenever I talk to our team
Speaker 3: about the brand, what we stand for, what we do,
Speaker 3: what the you know, the presence, the idea, the attitude
Speaker 3: of the brand. And there's a boldness in that that
Speaker 3: I absolutely like, which is why I have it. I
Speaker 3: have it and a lot of I keep it in
Speaker 3: a lot of places at home and at work. Robis's
Speaker 3: reputation to a large degree is built on motorwork, on
Speaker 3: very very deep technical functional the building of special cars
Speaker 3: if you if you want, because we have passed the
Speaker 3: point of you know, quote unquote just putting parts on
Speaker 3: cars a long time ago. If you if you look
Speaker 3: at cars like the Bodo, it is the most per
Speaker 3: the most passion driven project, not only of my life
Speaker 3: but of a large You know, almost everybody in the
Speaker 3: team who knew my father and has worked with them
Speaker 3: for decades is deeply passionate about the car, and I
Speaker 3: think it reflects in the design, it reflects in how
Speaker 3: it is perceived by the car community around the world.
Speaker 3: It is essentially a manufacturer of very high end, very rare,
Speaker 3: individual cars that we ship all around the world to
Speaker 3: clients and that have to work no matter the circumstances,
Speaker 3: and that have to work according to the standards of
Speaker 3: clients that really know their cars.
Speaker 1: Can we talk about the Bodos specifically, because, like you say,
Speaker 1: that car really embodies this whole ethos that you're describing
Speaker 1: for us. This car debuted this year and it's your
Speaker 1: first original supercar. If I'm not mistaking that it's a
Speaker 1: Coach built Grant Turismo coop based on and Aston Martin
Speaker 1: with a Mercedes engine. Am I getting that right? A
Speaker 1: thousand horsepower.
Speaker 3: So the Botto is a is a car that is
Speaker 3: a large granturismal coop that is both inspired but as
Speaker 3: we say, the bold nature of the automobiles. So it's
Speaker 3: got this long tail, gentle wear and at the same
Speaker 3: time a muscle car gt front, long bonnet, very high
Speaker 3: in the front, very stance and presence driven design, two
Speaker 3: plus two seater, very attitude forward. It's it's a design
Speaker 3: you I don't think you can overlook on the street
Speaker 3: that is very classic to me, very contemporary at the
Speaker 3: same time.
Speaker 2: One question that's easy to answer them how much would
Speaker 2: it cost for a client to spec order one of these?
Speaker 2: And then secondly, do you feel that this is for
Speaker 2: you almost like a crowning achievement. I mean, your father
Speaker 2: passed away suddenly, it must have been awful for you.
Speaker 2: Kind of bringing this product to Fruition in a sense
Speaker 2: is like it. I mean, it definitely is a tribute
Speaker 2: to him, right obviously with the name, it's one.
Speaker 3: Hundred percent tribute to him. Absolutely. So the team carried
Speaker 3: on worked eight years. In every project we do, I
Speaker 3: ask you a question now, Number one, of course, can
Speaker 3: we can we make this? Can we sell it? Is
Speaker 3: it a profitable decision? All of the usual business questions
Speaker 3: that you have to ask. Number two was always what
Speaker 3: do we learn? It's like, how can we take the
Speaker 3: brand further? How can we take the company further? What
Speaker 3: do we learn in terms of engineering? It took us
Speaker 3: eight years until we got to that point that we
Speaker 3: could finally put this together.
Speaker 1: This is a limited vehicle. Obviously, how many will you make?
Speaker 3: Well, sorry, Matt, what your question? One million euros base
Speaker 3: price plus options that will make it go to about
Speaker 3: one point two one point three million euros. That of
Speaker 3: course is in dollars. That is a bit of a
Speaker 3: different thing, but that's that's the base price. And yes, Hannah,
Speaker 3: it's limited. It's a car that will produce a maximum
Speaker 3: seventy seven times.
Speaker 2: Because that's the year that Bodo founded the company. And
Speaker 2: I see also that you have his signature in the
Speaker 2: door card, which is a really cool.
Speaker 1: Who is the Bravis customer? I think it's very interesting
Speaker 1: that this is a twelve cylinder vehicle. It's not a hybrid,
Speaker 1: it's not an electric vehicle. I'd love to know who's
Speaker 1: your customer and what are they telling you they want?
Speaker 1: Do they want manual shifting. Do they want evs? Do
Speaker 1: they want twelve cylinders? Give us a little insight into that.
Speaker 3: The typical the typical Bravist customer is not buying his
Speaker 3: first nor is he buying the second car very very
Speaker 3: interested in cars, has a and leads alive where he
Speaker 3: is very clear about the quality of parts that he wants,
Speaker 3: not only in cars, but in almost area aspect of
Speaker 3: his life. And of course that's part of the picture.
Speaker 3: Can also decide to want to afford this or he
Speaker 3: can't afford this. But mostly it's entrepreneurs. It's people that
Speaker 3: have built something through their work, and the good thing
Speaker 3: is that they always come with an interesting story, which
Speaker 3: is one of the absolute favorite aspects of my job.
Speaker 3: Knowing your customers seems to be a huge advantage nowadays
Speaker 3: in the car industry, and doing what your customers want
Speaker 3: also they are for example, those customers are very clearly
Speaker 3: telling us that they appreciate the fact that this is
Speaker 3: a twelfth cylinder, non hybrid, real wheel drive, old school
Speaker 3: grand tourism. I mean, don't get me wrong, it's a
Speaker 3: very very contemporary design. But at the same time, the
Speaker 3: story and the fact that it's a very pure GT
Speaker 3: in the minds of many people who are interested in cars,
Speaker 3: at least that I'm quoting from from trying to you know,
Speaker 3: that is what fascinates people. It's the kind of the
Speaker 3: deep historic connection to our brand, the tribute to my father,
Speaker 3: and also the the you know, the tech in the car.
Speaker 3: One customer told me, I love the fact that it's
Speaker 3: an honest, old school GT A driver's car, a car
Speaker 3: that talks to me, a car that I can feel.
Speaker 2: Do they typically buy the million dollar supercars, you know,
Speaker 2: the six by six or the incredible recreations of Mercedes
Speaker 2: and Porsie that you build, or do they buy the
Speaker 2: classics that you restore.
Speaker 3: It's interesting to look at that because I mean, basically,
Speaker 3: my father built the company from the idea that you
Speaker 3: were talking about in the beginning. It was the beginning
Speaker 3: of the car tuning scene, modifications, aftermarket everything that every
Speaker 3: picture that comes to your mind in terms of that
Speaker 3: from Germany is correct. However, just right about the time
Speaker 3: when my father passed away, we were I was trying
Speaker 3: it was already I was just on the board of
Speaker 3: the company, and I was trying to ask questions that
Speaker 3: were that were rooted in one impression. I was standing
Speaker 3: in front of the team one day and I said, guys,
Speaker 3: I'm seeing a crew. I'm seeing a team that can design,
Speaker 3: that can put it, that can take these designs and
Speaker 3: you know, realize them in three D. You can make molds,
Speaker 3: you can make parts. You can you know, take your
Speaker 3: designs to the wind tunnel or to a test track.
Speaker 3: You can put a number plate on them. You can design, guys,
Speaker 3: you can design complete products. Why do we stick to
Speaker 3: what we know? And every time Mercedes comes out with
Speaker 3: a new model, we do front side, rear, bumper, exhaust, interior, motor,
Speaker 3: et cetera. You guys can keep doing that, but I'm
Speaker 3: seeing a team that can do so much more. If
Speaker 3: you had asked people ten years ago, what is Brothers
Speaker 3: or you know, ten years, eight years, fifteen years ago,
Speaker 3: people would have said, you know, people in here, in
Speaker 3: this in this company would have said we are the
Speaker 3: world's biggest OEM independent cartooning company for Mercedes Benz. That
Speaker 3: statement was in itself correct, but it was also, you know,
Speaker 3: a statement that came from the perspective of the industry.
Speaker 3: When I took over the business, I challenged it and
Speaker 3: I said, guys, I hear that, and I can understand it.
Speaker 3: But now if I'm taking the perspective of a customer,
Speaker 3: why do I care? The answer, of course, I'm saying,
Speaker 3: it's like, no customer cares about that, It's like, make
Speaker 3: me care. And then it started. That started a year
Speaker 3: long process where in the end we came out with
Speaker 3: what is the mission of Bravis now, which is Brothers
Speaker 3: one second while And interestingly that does not include Mercedes
Speaker 3: Benz and that does not include even that doesn't even
Speaker 3: include car. It includes the fact that we want to
Speaker 3: make luxury products that touch you within a single second emotionally,
Speaker 3: and that we want to deploy what our company can do,
Speaker 3: what I saw that the team can do, to every
Speaker 3: single piece, to a lot of different pieces of the
Speaker 3: world that our customers live in.
Speaker 1: Something that Matt and I talk about a lot is
Speaker 1: the idea that cars are emotional, which touches on your
Speaker 1: one second wow thing and whether an electric car could
Speaker 1: ever be emotional? In your opinion, can an ev create
Speaker 1: one second wow? And how would you do that if
Speaker 1: you did that? Or maybe no? Fundamentally the answer is no,
Speaker 1: what's your thought?
Speaker 3: I believe an electric vehicle can have that effect? And
Speaker 3: also I want to clearly say that I'm not at
Speaker 3: all against electric vehicles. What I'm seeing is that there's
Speaker 3: different segments of all in the market. There is in
Speaker 3: a let me call it an A to B segment,
Speaker 3: kind of a very pragmatic let me wake up in
Speaker 3: the morning, take my kids to school, go to work,
Speaker 3: drive back segment, and let me do that in the
Speaker 3: most cost effective, pragmatic way that I can. That segment
Speaker 3: of the market, I believe is going fully electric and
Speaker 3: it is going to be the dominant technology. Now there
Speaker 3: is a geographic angle. Can we realize that it. Can
Speaker 3: we realize that in all countries of the world at
Speaker 3: the same time? Probably not. Is there all kinds of
Speaker 3: obstacles geographically and politically to realize to realize full electrification
Speaker 3: of car markets across the world one hundred percent, But
Speaker 3: that is what I'm what I'm feeling in the market
Speaker 3: is that this segment is going to be electric. Now.
Speaker 3: A lot of the discussions that we're seeing in the
Speaker 3: automotive industry are happening at the intersection to the second segment.
Speaker 3: I believe that as soon as you buy a car,
Speaker 3: not primarily for the you know, using it to get
Speaker 3: from A to B the second you start buying a
Speaker 3: car for its design, for the passion that you feel
Speaker 3: for the brand, which is again connected to history, to
Speaker 3: the technology over time. When you're buying a car and
Speaker 3: you're looking at the value and you want it to
Speaker 3: be timeless. When you're buying a collector's item, when you're
Speaker 3: buying something through that perspective, you're looking at combustion engines,
Speaker 3: you're looking at a segment of the market that very
Speaker 3: clear clearly tells you the same thing that the mechanical
Speaker 3: watch market is tell you know, mechanical watch collectors are
Speaker 3: telling you if I'm buying a Ptec Philip or a Rolex,
Speaker 3: and my Rolex dealer is calling me and telling me, hey, Constantine,
Speaker 3: I've got something new for you and asking him that
Speaker 3: what is it? And he says it's a Daytona now
Speaker 3: with a battery. So you know, I'm going to tell
Speaker 3: him that I don't want it. And it's because when
Speaker 3: I buy that watch, the same as when I buy
Speaker 3: a nine eleven, the same as when I buy a Ferrari.
Speaker 3: Which is a very interesting discussion right now.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we could talk about buying.
Speaker 3: A collector and I'm buying a collector's piece. I'm buying
Speaker 3: something that I take out of my garage when i
Speaker 3: want to feel as when i want to have fun driving,
Speaker 3: when I'm looking at a store of value, when I'm
Speaker 3: thinking about auctions and potentially ten or fifteen years in
Speaker 3: the very pricey segments, when I'm looking to take it
Speaker 3: to your cars and coffee events, to places in the
Speaker 3: car community, when I'm looking to talk to it about
Speaker 3: my friends and so on and so forth. That is
Speaker 3: everything but a pragmatic decision. I think the luxury products
Speaker 3: function through your heart first, not your head, and that
Speaker 3: the same is true when you look at how they proceed,
Speaker 3: how they get their value. Sense making in luxury products
Speaker 3: functions culturally. Luxury products are cultural products, and that is
Speaker 3: why you cannot take away history from You cannot disconnect
Speaker 3: history from a nine to eleven. You cannot disconnect the
Speaker 3: combustion engine from a nine to eleven. Does that mean
Speaker 3: that there can be electric cars that are have a
Speaker 3: complete wow effect, that have beautiful design within the realms
Speaker 3: of what the technology offers you, of course, such as
Speaker 3: battery packaging and so on and so forth. Absolutely not.
Speaker 3: There can be fascinating electric cars, and there are fascinating
Speaker 3: electric cars. Can they have the same fascination that a
Speaker 3: Porsche Ferrari as a Bugatti offers you that is connected
Speaker 3: to one hundred years of history? I don't think it can.
Speaker 2: I'm looking at all the other things you do. I
Speaker 2: love the collaboration with KTM. How did you get so
Speaker 2: far as the design and island or two? Because you've
Speaker 2: got the Baku project and also one inn Abu Dhabi.
Speaker 3: Let me start off this way. I perceive Brabas as
Speaker 3: a design house. I'm looking at it from I'm getting
Speaker 3: up in the morning driving to exactly the company that
Speaker 3: I want to work on with, exactly the team I
Speaker 3: want to work with, and I'm looking at what they
Speaker 3: can do. And we're discovering new ways to go about
Speaker 3: things every year. And I have a strong belief that
Speaker 3: if you are buying things, because if you're buying things
Speaker 3: out of passion for something, then you're looking at brands differently.
Speaker 3: You're looking at brands, and at least when I'm doing it,
Speaker 3: I'm looking for a brand to have a pulse. I'm
Speaker 3: looking for a brand to be alive. I want to
Speaker 3: know who's behind it. Not to know what they're thinking about.
Speaker 3: I want to know what is going on. What is
Speaker 3: their dynamic, is their dynamic movement, is their momentum? Is
Speaker 3: there something happening? Because again, the third element of it
Speaker 3: is that luxury products also get their value from the past,
Speaker 3: the present, and the future. So you know if I
Speaker 3: buy that that that high end kitchen, or that mechanical watch,
Speaker 3: and you'll see I'm a passionate watch collector, so you
Speaker 3: see me go back and forth between those two industries
Speaker 3: a lot. Then I'm looking at same as for a car.
Speaker 3: I'm looking at what has the brand done in the
Speaker 3: in the past is what's the brand doing now? What
Speaker 3: am I What feeling am I getting from them? Are
Speaker 3: they alive? Do they recognize what I want as a customer?
Speaker 3: Are they Are they really really into this or are
Speaker 3: they just corporate ghosts that try to follow a certain
Speaker 3: pattern and they're not really passionate about things? And what
Speaker 3: are they going to do in the future? What are
Speaker 3: they telling me about where they're going. If I get
Speaker 3: the feeling that those three elements past, present and future
Speaker 3: are in order, I'm going to become a customer of
Speaker 3: that brand and I'm going to be a fan of
Speaker 3: that brand, and I'm going to want to go to
Speaker 3: events and join, you know, join talks with them. I'm
Speaker 3: gonna want to get to know the people behind the brand.
Speaker 3: If I'm spending a lot of money and I'm buying
Speaker 3: a limited edition product. Even more so, it's.
Speaker 1: So exciting to hear you say this, because I think
Speaker 1: I find myself rolling my eyes, you know, so so
Speaker 1: much these days because people, you know, brands, companies, et cetera.
Speaker 1: As you put it, don't have a pulse. So you know,
Speaker 1: it's just so it's so great to talk with people
Speaker 1: who have a point of view. They're not for everyone.
Speaker 1: They don't need to be for everyone. You're staying true.
Speaker 3: They shouldn't be.
Speaker 1: You shouldn't be completely, I guess. Just finally, I'm really
Speaker 1: curious where you see It seems like you're sort of
Speaker 1: expanding in a lot of different fields. Are there fields
Speaker 1: that you think are not for Bravis that you think are.
Speaker 3: Really Are we going to do the Are we going
Speaker 3: to do the Bravas labeled water cooker? No, we're not.
Speaker 1: Okay, good good.
Speaker 2: But I expect to watch in a private jet for sure.
Speaker 3: We don't that Well, two different difficult, difficult, it's interesting again,
Speaker 3: here's a discussion the watches. We actually designed very four,
Speaker 3: very nice watch designs with a panoram a few years ago.
Speaker 3: That was a fun project. But let me answer to
Speaker 3: your question, Matt, because those why, why these segments and
Speaker 3: why these adventures? Simply, honestly, if you're getting up in
Speaker 3: the morning and you're having fun, and you're you're trying
Speaker 3: to see where you can go, and you're you're from
Speaker 3: you know, you're from your designers, from the bottom of
Speaker 3: your heart, and you love the process. What more, you know,
Speaker 3: what could be more beautiful than trying? If you can
Speaker 3: next to a car trying, if you can design a
Speaker 3: motor room trying, if you can design a boat. But then,
Speaker 3: one thing is really really important to me. It's like
Speaker 3: every time we do something new. If we design a boat,
Speaker 3: we have to become boat designers. If we designed furniture
Speaker 3: for an apartment, we have to become furniture designers. We
Speaker 3: can't look at we can't you can't look at a
Speaker 3: boat and say, hey, hey, we're car designers. We're you know,
Speaker 3: we're car developers. Let's let's build a boat that works
Speaker 3: like a car. Let's build a motorbike that feels like
Speaker 3: a motor moment does. It's not going to work. The
Speaker 3: materials don't work, the structures don't work, the customer needs
Speaker 3: don't work. You know, we're challenging ourselves every year to
Speaker 3: do something new, and that is simply because life would
Speaker 3: be very, very boring if we wouldn't. You know, I
Speaker 3: inherited a good I inherited a well functioning business from
Speaker 3: my dad and the people. You know, people told me
Speaker 3: a few times, like why don't you sell it? And
Speaker 3: my answer was always the same. It's like, what would
Speaker 3: I do? I would starting the same thing the next day.
Speaker 3: There's a certain momentum in companies that you can recreate
Speaker 3: and Robert I feel like Robis has that momentum and
Speaker 3: has had that momentum for some time. And I'm very
Speaker 3: fortunate to work with a team that has a few
Speaker 3: qualities that I think are very hard we create.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 3: One thing is clear, there is no success is never guaranteed.
Speaker 3: I don't know whether our next car design is successful.
Speaker 3: It's going to be successful, I don't know whether people
Speaker 3: are going to love whatever we do after the Voto.
Speaker 3: I'm simply very happy that they do love what we've
Speaker 3: done just now, and every time we try something new,
Speaker 3: we're giving it our absolute best to put on something
Speaker 3: that we believe deserves to be called a Brobst product.
Speaker 2: I feel like it's so clear that you have such
Speaker 2: a powerful staff around you, because you seem like you
Speaker 2: would walk through fire for the people that work at
Speaker 2: brabis Uh. And that's that's really cool to hear from
Speaker 2: a boss. You know, without it, you're not You're not
Speaker 2: like saying these you know, throwaway slogans, You're not value
Speaker 2: signaling like I can. I can tell from from your
Speaker 2: word and your body language that you have so much
Speaker 2: faith in the people that work at Robas.
Speaker 3: We're all surrounded by endless meetings and so on so
Speaker 3: for and I have way too little time to want
Speaker 3: to be a part of that. I believe that customers,
Speaker 3: business partners, everybody's involved with our business, they can smell
Speaker 3: bs from ten miles away, especially if they want to
Speaker 3: spend a million dollars on the car. Interestingly, been I've
Speaker 3: been at a few points in my life where where
Speaker 3: I gone too close to the end as I as
Speaker 3: I would have wanted. And so I know that life
Speaker 3: is short and we have a lot of meetings and
Speaker 3: where I'm I mean, I'm the owner and the CEO
Speaker 3: of the company, and my job is to make decisions
Speaker 3: and move the brand forward. A lot of times I
Speaker 3: found myself saying, why are we going to do this,
Speaker 3: because in six years I'll be dead. So we're going
Speaker 3: to push the brand forward now, and we're going to
Speaker 3: push it forward with everything that we've got. There is
Speaker 3: no reason to not be passionate about what you're doing,
Speaker 3: because life is simply too short for that. And that
Speaker 3: also reflects, it reflects. I believe that that sort of
Speaker 3: that sort of mentality reflects into every corner of our business.
Speaker 3: If you're not a radical about when it comes to design,
Speaker 3: when it comes to wanting to work in a place
Speaker 3: that is passion driven, please don't work at prodist very clear,
Speaker 3: heads up, because you're going to be surrounded by people
Speaker 3: who are giving it their best every single day.
Speaker 1: We're sitting in church right now because yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: we totally agree. Thank you so much for your time.
Speaker 1: It's wonderful to have you on. Please stay in touch
Speaker 1: and come back and talk to us again.
Speaker 3: Please come by. Thank you, Hannah, thank you man.
Speaker 1: Thank you. That does it for this week's show. Remember
Speaker 1: to follow and subscribe to Hot Pursuit on Apple, Spotify,
Speaker 1: and anywhere else you listen. You can also send us
Speaker 1: your comments. Email us at hot Pursuit at bloomberg dot net,
Speaker 1: and you can check out my columns and Matt's TV
Speaker 1: show on Bloomberg dot com and Bloomberg TV and on
Speaker 1: the Bloomberg Business app. Go there for car reviews, events
Speaker 1: and stories you won't find anywhere else. Find it all
Speaker 1: at Bloomberg dot com, slash Pursuits, slash Autos, I'm Hannah
Speaker 1: Elliott and I'm Matt Miller.
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