WEBVTT - Stranger Danger! 0:00:01.480 --> 0:00:04.280 Welcome to Stuff you should know, a production of I 0:00:04.360 --> 0:00:14.280 Heart Radio. Hey everyone, and welcome to the podcast. I'm 0:00:14.360 --> 0:00:17.840 Josh Clark and there's Charles W. Chuck Bryant, and we're 0:00:17.920 --> 0:00:21.000 flying solo today. But that's cool because God is our 0:00:21.079 --> 0:00:28.200 co pilot. This good one. I thought it too, because 0:00:28.680 --> 0:00:31.120 God has nothing to do with you and me, that 0:00:31.240 --> 0:00:38.000 kind of unless he was one of us. What a song, 0:00:38.159 --> 0:00:39.800 What a great song. I can't wait till that comes 0:00:39.840 --> 0:00:43.960 back in five years. Who was that? Oh? I think 0:00:44.840 --> 0:00:46.720 had been a one hit wonder but it was one 0:00:46.720 --> 0:00:48.800 heck of a one hit like I want to say 0:00:48.800 --> 0:00:51.080 tor Amos, but it wasn't. No, it definitely wasn't. It 0:00:51.159 --> 0:00:55.560 was like Diane West or something like story was too 0:00:55.560 --> 0:00:58.480 good for that dribble. She was good. I thought that 0:00:58.560 --> 0:01:02.600 was a pretty good, good little song. I like the message. Sure, 0:01:02.800 --> 0:01:05.840 just a stranger on the bus. Just a slob like 0:01:06.040 --> 0:01:10.480 one of us. That wasn't the player, Yeah, just a 0:01:10.600 --> 0:01:14.120 slab kid, you not my friend boy? Yeah, just a 0:01:14.200 --> 0:01:16.800 slab like all of us. I didn't know that was 0:01:16.880 --> 0:01:19.480 being insulted. When I was grown out to that song 0:01:19.520 --> 0:01:23.720 on the dance floor, you couldn't feel her. Supernumerary finger 0:01:23.800 --> 0:01:28.279 poking you in your chest. I could not so. Um, Chuck, 0:01:28.440 --> 0:01:31.000 I feel like we should stop this chit chat and 0:01:31.120 --> 0:01:34.200 get down to it, because we're talking today about something 0:01:34.280 --> 0:01:37.760 that made up our childhood, and I was very dismayed 0:01:37.800 --> 0:01:41.360 to learn still makes up some kids childhoods. A lot 0:01:41.440 --> 0:01:45.080 of kids childhood's still being taught today. Um, and that 0:01:45.200 --> 0:01:51.240 you could conceivably make the case that it eroded at 0:01:51.240 --> 0:01:55.600 the very fabric of society. A very misguided campaign that 0:01:55.680 --> 0:01:59.440 came about in the very early eighties that had the 0:01:59.560 --> 0:02:05.280 very ge term known as stranger danger. Yeah, it's funny 0:02:05.360 --> 0:02:06.920 when you look at this and you couple it with 0:02:06.960 --> 0:02:11.399 everything else. The eighties had a lot of misguided campaigns. 0:02:11.480 --> 0:02:15.720 Didn't they just say no, break No, They're all over 0:02:15.760 --> 0:02:18.800 the place, satanic panic. It's really weird. I think it was. 0:02:20.200 --> 0:02:24.000 I mean, when you look back, it was clearly like uh, 0:02:24.160 --> 0:02:26.959 I think there are a lot of factors, like the 0:02:26.960 --> 0:02:30.120 the I think the Reagan era sort of moral majority 0:02:30.280 --> 0:02:35.440 years conspired to kind of just they wanted to scare everybody, 0:02:36.000 --> 0:02:39.400 wait into everything, Yeah, scared you straight straight into their 0:02:39.440 --> 0:02:43.040 political ideology. That's definitely, I mean, that's definitely part of 0:02:43.040 --> 0:02:45.639 it for sure, because there is a there's a definite UM. 0:02:45.840 --> 0:02:47.880 And this isn't just me riffing here, like I saw 0:02:47.919 --> 0:02:52.280 this in multiple places, uh with legit sources even UM 0:02:52.320 --> 0:02:55.000 and we'll talk a little bit about legit sources are 0:02:55.040 --> 0:02:57.160 not And I think there's some good examples in here 0:02:57.160 --> 0:03:00.480 of being careful who you listen to. UM. But there, 0:03:00.600 --> 0:03:02.680 but there does seem to be like a kind of 0:03:02.720 --> 0:03:06.800 a general consensus that part of those moral panics in 0:03:06.840 --> 0:03:12.080 the eighties came from UM Christian conservatives who very much 0:03:12.240 --> 0:03:17.240 into their credit are are UM dedicated to the idea 0:03:17.240 --> 0:03:20.919 of protecting children from predation at the hands of adults, 0:03:22.200 --> 0:03:24.440 and that that's where a lot of that stuff came from. 0:03:24.480 --> 0:03:29.480 But that it was really done poorly and probably overblown, 0:03:29.560 --> 0:03:33.080 and in very short order. It was not the Christian 0:03:33.200 --> 0:03:35.800 right that was leading in charging more was everybody. Everybody 0:03:35.880 --> 0:03:39.160 was involved in this kind of stuff. Yeah, because I 0:03:39.200 --> 0:03:42.160 think you know, if you were a kid in the eighties, 0:03:42.240 --> 0:03:44.040 you knew a few things. You knew that if you 0:03:44.080 --> 0:03:46.960 listen to rock and roll music that you might be 0:03:47.000 --> 0:03:50.760 possessed by the devil. Uh. If you went outside to 0:03:50.800 --> 0:03:53.120 go play by yourself, there was a really good chance 0:03:53.160 --> 0:03:56.200 you might not come home, and that if you travel 0:03:56.320 --> 0:03:58.040 to like in New York City, like the Big City 0:03:58.120 --> 0:04:01.280 or someplace, you stand a really good chance to being murdered. Yeah, 0:04:01.320 --> 0:04:04.240 it was just gonna happen. Statistically speaking, you if you 0:04:04.280 --> 0:04:06.839 went to New York City, you're going to be murdered. Yeah, 0:04:06.920 --> 0:04:09.400 and none of those things portry or or if you 0:04:09.520 --> 0:04:11.480 smoke a cigarette then you're going to end up, you know, 0:04:11.600 --> 0:04:15.000 like a cocaine fiend, right. Or if you take LSD, 0:04:15.120 --> 0:04:17.599 your children's genes are going to be all sorts of 0:04:17.600 --> 0:04:20.039 messed up and you'll be addicted to LSD for the 0:04:20.040 --> 0:04:22.240 rest of your life and have taken multiple times a 0:04:22.320 --> 0:04:27.120 day flashbacks for the rest of you if only Yeah, 0:04:27.160 --> 0:04:32.520 for real free trip. But we'll go ahead and start 0:04:32.520 --> 0:04:35.479 because this ed the Grabanowski. The Grabster helps to help 0:04:35.560 --> 0:04:38.520 us with this, and he very logically started out with 0:04:38.600 --> 0:04:43.320 some statistics. The National Crime Information Center from the FBI 0:04:43.400 --> 0:04:47.160 have been they kind of good at collecting missing persons stats. 0:04:47.520 --> 0:04:49.800 They've been doing that since the Crime Control Act in 0:04:49.880 --> 0:04:54.159 nine And it's like with anything else when you collect 0:04:54.200 --> 0:04:58.200 statistics on like missing children, Let's say you also have 0:04:58.320 --> 0:05:01.680 to clean up that list every year, right, because a 0:05:01.680 --> 0:05:03.200 lot of kids run away from home, a lot of 0:05:03.240 --> 0:05:06.280 kids come come back home. A lot of kids were 0:05:06.279 --> 0:05:08.520 never lost to begin with that are reported missing, that 0:05:08.640 --> 0:05:13.400 kind of thing. And in twenty nineteen, I believe once 0:05:14.080 --> 0:05:17.239 they added and then subtracted, they added about six hundred, 0:05:17.360 --> 0:05:20.400 nine thousand, two hundred seventy five missing persons. That is 0:05:20.560 --> 0:05:23.760 eye popping. And that's all missing persons. It's not just 0:05:23.880 --> 0:05:26.200 kids for that year though, that's not over the course 0:05:26.240 --> 0:05:29.560 of a century. That's in two thousand nineteen alone, right, 0:05:29.720 --> 0:05:32.720 But they also purge six hundred and seven thousand, one 0:05:32.920 --> 0:05:41.280 d and four, leaving about two thousand actual missing persons 0:05:41.320 --> 0:05:43.680 remaining in their system, and about a hundred of those 0:05:43.720 --> 0:05:47.480 were juvenile. And then some of those our kids who 0:05:47.560 --> 0:05:49.440 ran away from home more than once, so they're on 0:05:49.480 --> 0:05:51.920 the list more than once. So if you just look 0:05:51.920 --> 0:05:57.640 at naked statistics and actual kidnapping in modern times of 0:05:57.720 --> 0:06:02.039 a child is really really air and even rarer still 0:06:02.200 --> 0:06:05.560 to be kidnapped by a stranger. Exactly. So, Chuck, I 0:06:05.600 --> 0:06:09.479 got my trusty old calculator out, and I got a 0:06:09.480 --> 0:06:11.039 lot of stuff wrong, But I'm going to read what 0:06:11.120 --> 0:06:18.440 I came up with. Okay, does um and just got 0:06:18.480 --> 0:06:22.080 me with that. Uh So out of the let's say 0:06:22.080 --> 0:06:25.920 two thousand people who are two thousand kids who are 0:06:25.960 --> 0:06:28.760 abducted every year, That's what I saw in one place, 0:06:28.760 --> 0:06:32.520 I think from the FBI, two thousand kids were abducted. Um, 0:06:32.600 --> 0:06:36.520 that means that out of the seventy four million kids 0:06:36.600 --> 0:06:41.320 in America in two thousand eleven, each one technically had 0:06:41.360 --> 0:06:46.159 a point zero zero, zero, zero to seven percent chance 0:06:46.839 --> 0:06:51.279 of being abducted. Okay, and that's just abducted. Okay, So 0:06:51.400 --> 0:06:54.520 hating with me for one more second. You have twenty 0:06:55.040 --> 0:06:57.599 you have a quarter of a million of a percent 0:06:57.720 --> 0:07:00.600 of being abducted. Statistically speaking, if or a child in 0:07:00.640 --> 0:07:05.159 the US in two thousand eleven, of that quarter of 0:07:05.200 --> 0:07:08.320 a millionth of a percent chance, you had an additional 0:07:09.120 --> 0:07:13.080 two hundreds of a percent chance of being abducted and 0:07:13.200 --> 0:07:16.800 murdered by a stranger, which is, as anyone will tell you, 0:07:16.880 --> 0:07:20.240 the money fear of being a parent, and that is 0:07:20.280 --> 0:07:25.120 what drove it that there was this irrational fear of 0:07:25.240 --> 0:07:28.040 the worst case scenario. And even though it was the 0:07:28.120 --> 0:07:33.440 chances were vanishingly remote, every single parent in America starting 0:07:33.440 --> 0:07:36.600 in the very early eighties was was staying up awake 0:07:36.640 --> 0:07:39.440 at night for decades, worried that this was going to 0:07:39.480 --> 0:07:43.640 happen to their child. Yeah, and you know, that's we 0:07:43.640 --> 0:07:47.640 were talking nineteen, which is the lowest number since they've 0:07:47.640 --> 0:07:50.400 been keeping track. I think that number peaked in the nineties. 0:07:51.400 --> 0:07:55.240 But even in the eighties it wasn't a common occurrence. 0:07:55.320 --> 0:07:59.880 It's you know, these days with camera doorbells and self 0:08:00.000 --> 0:08:03.960 owns and CCTV and how security cameras like, obviously that 0:08:04.040 --> 0:08:06.160 kind of stuff isn't going to happen as much because 0:08:06.200 --> 0:08:08.520 it's just harder to get away with it. And you 0:08:08.520 --> 0:08:10.200 can make a case that in the eighties it was 0:08:10.280 --> 0:08:13.360 easier and maybe happened a little more for that reason, 0:08:13.920 --> 0:08:18.800 but it still was founded upon parents worse fears and 0:08:18.800 --> 0:08:23.520 and it was never a statistical probability, no, not even remotely. 0:08:23.640 --> 0:08:27.520 And there definitely were more kidnappings in general. I think 0:08:27.600 --> 0:08:30.520 they used to get around a million entries rather than 0:08:30.680 --> 0:08:34.440 the seven hundred thousand or six hundred thousand and change um. 0:08:34.520 --> 0:08:37.120 And so that's definitely gone down, and we'll talk about why. 0:08:37.360 --> 0:08:39.680 And then the recovery rate has actually gone up from 0:08:39.720 --> 0:08:43.679 the sixties of the of from the sixty percentile to 0:08:44.000 --> 0:08:47.440 the ninety percentile, So it definitely has improved. But like 0:08:47.480 --> 0:08:50.720 you're saying, even at its worst, it was driven by fear, 0:08:50.760 --> 0:08:54.040 which makes it the definition of a moral panic. Yeah, 0:08:54.160 --> 0:08:58.920 and driven by the media that has the statistic of 0:08:58.960 --> 0:09:02.760 newspaper articles about how to protect kids focus on threats 0:09:02.760 --> 0:09:07.600 from strangers, and only about four percent talk about um 0:09:07.720 --> 0:09:10.320 abuse within the family, which is far and away the 0:09:10.360 --> 0:09:15.480 most common threat to a child or people within the family. Yeah, yeah, 0:09:15.520 --> 0:09:18.280 I think um something like fifty eight thousand kids were 0:09:18.280 --> 0:09:24.000 abducted by familiar, non family members, like people they already knew, 0:09:24.480 --> 0:09:26.640 and most of the time they were targeted for sex. 0:09:27.160 --> 0:09:30.160 So it's not to say like there isn't a there 0:09:30.200 --> 0:09:33.000 isn't a big problem with child sexual abuse, Like I 0:09:33.040 --> 0:09:36.120 think it's even at the time, it was a hidden 0:09:36.160 --> 0:09:40.160 problem even when everyone was focusing on it, because everyone 0:09:40.240 --> 0:09:44.160 was focusing on the wrong group strangers. Whereas it's like, no, 0:09:44.400 --> 0:09:46.960 you're far more likely if you're going to be sexually abused, 0:09:47.000 --> 0:09:49.280 to have been sexually abused by someone you know or 0:09:49.320 --> 0:09:53.480 even a family member. You know, the stranger picking you up, 0:09:53.520 --> 0:09:56.000 abusing you sexually and then murdering you. Was it just 0:09:56.080 --> 0:09:59.839 almost never happened in the United States. Did you happen 0:09:59.880 --> 0:10:03.040 to to sit through the frustrating experience of Abducted in 0:10:03.080 --> 0:10:07.240 Plain Sight? Was it a documentary? No? I didn't see 0:10:07.240 --> 0:10:10.640 that one. Don't bother I. Well, I kind of like 0:10:10.720 --> 0:10:13.439 those vintage like P s A films. I mean, it's 0:10:13.480 --> 0:10:17.120 a remarkable story, but it's on Netflix. It'll it is 0:10:17.160 --> 0:10:19.320 one of the more frustrating things that you will ever 0:10:19.720 --> 0:10:22.160 ever sit through in your life. Do they keep like 0:10:22.200 --> 0:10:24.319 going further and further back in time to give more 0:10:24.320 --> 0:10:27.640 and more backstory and context. No, it's just the story 0:10:27.640 --> 0:10:30.679 of this one family. But I don't want to give 0:10:30.720 --> 0:10:34.080 anything away. If all right, it's just you're gonna want 0:10:34.080 --> 0:10:37.960 to throw your television into the street so frustrated. Abducted 0:10:38.000 --> 0:10:40.400 in Plain Sight? Yeah, I mean it's I don't know 0:10:40.440 --> 0:10:42.199 if I can recommend it. You know, it's one of 0:10:42.240 --> 0:10:44.320 those things it's just like, I mean, I'm kind of 0:10:44.360 --> 0:10:46.920 glad I watched it, but it was just so frustrating, 0:10:47.280 --> 0:10:50.880 like listening to the Shags album or something. Hey, did 0:10:50.880 --> 0:10:53.720 you ever see that one after school special where Helen 0:10:53.800 --> 0:10:57.320 Hunt smokes PCP and jumps out of the second floor 0:10:57.400 --> 0:11:00.199 window or school? That was a great one. Yeah, all 0:11:00.280 --> 0:11:04.520 time So what were you about to start with? Let's 0:11:04.559 --> 0:11:08.120 take a break. Oh, I think that's very appropriate, man. Yeah, 0:11:08.160 --> 0:11:09.559 we'll take your break and we'll come back and talk 0:11:09.600 --> 0:11:11.920 a little bit about the beginnings of the stranger danger 0:11:12.040 --> 0:11:37.079 era in the late seventies right after this. Stop you 0:11:37.400 --> 0:11:42.400 you know, stop stop fearing. You shouldn't you know? No 0:11:43.040 --> 0:11:49.840 you stop you you know, stop stop fearing. Shouldn't you know? Stop? 0:11:49.960 --> 0:11:52.760 You should know? Okay, Chuck. So it's this is one 0:11:52.760 --> 0:11:54.679 of those rare things where you can kind of point 0:11:54.720 --> 0:11:58.520 to a moment in history where society change, there is 0:11:58.559 --> 0:12:01.920 a sea change, And it really happened in May of nine, 0:12:03.120 --> 0:12:05.880 um when a little, cute, cute, little six year old 0:12:05.880 --> 0:12:10.720 boy named Eating pats Um vanished. He he was walking 0:12:10.840 --> 0:12:14.560 for the very first time in his life, uh, by 0:12:14.679 --> 0:12:17.400 himself to the bus stop two blocks away from his 0:12:17.480 --> 0:12:20.920 family's house in in Soho. And by house, I'm sure, 0:12:20.960 --> 0:12:25.240 I mean like a two square foot studio apartment. Um. Yeah. 0:12:25.280 --> 0:12:27.560 And it was the last day of school before summer. 0:12:27.920 --> 0:12:30.040 This was his last chance as a six year old 0:12:30.080 --> 0:12:32.440 to walk by himself like a grown up to the 0:12:32.480 --> 0:12:34.079 bus stop. His mom let him do it because it 0:12:34.160 --> 0:12:36.079 was a hectic Marian and she knew he was really 0:12:36.120 --> 0:12:39.080 wanting to get more independence. He had a dollar in 0:12:39.120 --> 0:12:42.160 his pocket for a soda, his favorite Eastern airlines had 0:12:42.200 --> 0:12:45.600 on and he was never seen again. To this day, 0:12:45.640 --> 0:12:48.720 they have no idea what happened to him. Really. Yeah, 0:12:48.800 --> 0:12:52.720 and this was a huge, huge news story, um, partially 0:12:53.320 --> 0:12:56.240 as we'll see, because it was a little white boy 0:12:56.280 --> 0:13:01.319 who was very cute and um, media heavily slants their 0:13:01.400 --> 0:13:06.319 news stories towards white people in general, white kids. Uh. 0:13:06.360 --> 0:13:08.440 And like I said, we'll get into that morning minute. Um. 0:13:08.679 --> 0:13:11.680 His dad was a professional photographer, so that definitely helped. 0:13:12.040 --> 0:13:15.120 There were tons of great photos of eating that the 0:13:15.200 --> 0:13:17.320 news could dig into and put all over the place, 0:13:18.080 --> 0:13:20.640 and they did. Um. And you know, like you said, 0:13:20.679 --> 0:13:23.240 this is one of those deals that, uh, it's the 0:13:23.280 --> 0:13:27.280 parents worst nightmare. So when a news story gets run 0:13:27.320 --> 0:13:30.120 like this, every parent in the country is going to 0:13:30.200 --> 0:13:33.200 pick up the phone. These days it would be you know, online, 0:13:33.200 --> 0:13:34.520 but they would pick up the phone and call their 0:13:34.559 --> 0:13:36.320 friends and say, did you seek here? What happened? Did 0:13:36.360 --> 0:13:38.600 you see what happened? Like this is the kind of 0:13:38.600 --> 0:13:42.280 thing that that we're also scared about, and it's actually happening. 0:13:42.280 --> 0:13:45.599 It does happen. Yeah, and there were some other extenuating 0:13:45.640 --> 0:13:48.199 circumstances to that just made it even worse. Like this 0:13:48.320 --> 0:13:50.720 school didn't bother to call to ask about where he 0:13:50.880 --> 0:13:53.160 was when he didn't show up, because I guess they 0:13:53.160 --> 0:13:57.080 didn't know he was walking by himself the first time ever. Um. 0:13:57.160 --> 0:13:59.840 And so his parents went the whole day without being 0:14:00.040 --> 0:14:02.160 wear it all until he didn't come home from school 0:14:02.160 --> 0:14:05.080 that he had never showed up. Um, there was just 0:14:05.160 --> 0:14:07.360 a there was just a lot going on for something 0:14:07.400 --> 0:14:10.440 about it. It just struck everybody in just the right way. 0:14:10.480 --> 0:14:15.520 It's just heartbreaking and it scared parents to death. And 0:14:15.559 --> 0:14:18.360 that was in May of nineteen seventy nine, and you 0:14:18.360 --> 0:14:21.720 can fast forward to just over two years later, uh, 0:14:21.800 --> 0:14:26.040 this time in Hollywood, Florida, another six year old, another 0:14:26.120 --> 0:14:30.680 cute little white kid named Adam Walsh, was abducted from 0:14:30.720 --> 0:14:34.640 a Sears store while his mom shopped like two miles over. 0:14:34.720 --> 0:14:38.360 He was playing like video games in the store and 0:14:38.440 --> 0:14:40.880 his mom was doing some shopping, something that parents did 0:14:40.960 --> 0:14:44.360 all the time back then. Like it was astounding that 0:14:44.400 --> 0:14:46.560 he was even in the same store at the mall 0:14:46.640 --> 0:14:48.360 as her. He could have been anywhere in the mall, 0:14:48.600 --> 0:14:51.240 like at that time, and he was abducted while she 0:14:51.320 --> 0:14:53.760 was just a few miles over. And then even worse 0:14:53.840 --> 0:14:56.760 than I think eaten and this this really kind of cemented, 0:14:56.840 --> 0:14:59.600 like the Eating Pat's disappearance was in a one off, 0:14:59.640 --> 0:15:02.000 like we're we're dealing with a huge social problem now. 0:15:02.400 --> 0:15:05.840 Is that Adam Walsh's um poor little head was found 0:15:06.040 --> 0:15:09.440 floating in a canal about ten days after he went missing. 0:15:10.000 --> 0:15:12.320 And that that was it. I mean, that was it. 0:15:12.360 --> 0:15:16.440 That didn't just scared parents, that scared everybody. Anyone who 0:15:16.440 --> 0:15:19.720 heard about it was now scared to death of stranger 0:15:19.800 --> 0:15:23.520 danger and abductions and being murdered by some mirando who 0:15:23.520 --> 0:15:27.000 picks you up. Yeah, And uh, if you noticed Josh 0:15:27.000 --> 0:15:28.840 earlier saying we don't know what for sure what happened 0:15:28.840 --> 0:15:32.280 in the Eaton Pats case, his body was never found. 0:15:32.360 --> 0:15:35.040 In twenty twelve, there was a man named Pedro Hernandez 0:15:35.600 --> 0:15:37.840 who was a store clerk that worked in the same 0:15:37.840 --> 0:15:41.000 neighborhood in New York who confessed to killing him, and 0:15:41.040 --> 0:15:44.600 he was convicted in seventeen. But uh, it was a 0:15:44.640 --> 0:15:48.680 pretty flimsy case and a flimsy confession, and I think 0:15:48.720 --> 0:15:53.280 generally everyone kind of says, you know, it's not case closed. 0:15:53.320 --> 0:15:56.080 We still don't really know for sure what happened, even 0:15:56.120 --> 0:15:59.240 though there was a confession, because there was nobody that 0:15:59.280 --> 0:16:01.600 was ever found. And I don't think the parents ever 0:16:01.680 --> 0:16:04.560 felt closure like they deserved no, no for sure, and 0:16:04.600 --> 0:16:06.800 they I mean they had already previously zeroed in on 0:16:06.840 --> 0:16:09.760 another suspect named Jose Ramos, who was somebody who had 0:16:09.800 --> 0:16:14.640 a relationship with one of Eaton's babysitters and who was 0:16:14.760 --> 0:16:17.640 a peder asked um and I don't know if he 0:16:17.680 --> 0:16:20.080 ever admitted to it or not, but he was never charged, 0:16:20.120 --> 0:16:24.800 but the um pat's has won a civil suit against 0:16:24.880 --> 0:16:28.080 him that saying he was responsible. So to two people 0:16:28.120 --> 0:16:31.160 have been once been convicted and one's been ruled against, 0:16:31.800 --> 0:16:33.800 two different people in the in the murder of him, 0:16:33.800 --> 0:16:37.000 even though they have nothing to do with one another. Right. 0:16:37.120 --> 0:16:41.760 So that brings us to the famous Milk Carton Kids campaign. 0:16:42.440 --> 0:16:48.160 Um not the Amazing Folks Singing Duo? Is that the 0:16:48.240 --> 0:16:51.520 name of a band? Yes, these two guys, they're they're great. 0:16:51.600 --> 0:16:55.560 They they sort of a Simon and Garfunkly Everly Brothers 0:16:55.560 --> 0:16:58.120 type of thing, but there's there. They like, play it straight. 0:16:58.120 --> 0:17:01.120 They're not like they might be giants or something. No, 0:17:01.240 --> 0:17:03.520 I mean they the music is played straight, but they 0:17:03.560 --> 0:17:05.960 there is a lot of humor in their banter. But 0:17:06.080 --> 0:17:09.359 they're not They're not like a joke band. Okay, gotcha, Hey, yeah, 0:17:09.480 --> 0:17:11.239 it's it's good stuff. I don't know if they might 0:17:11.280 --> 0:17:14.359 be giants, could be considered a joke band. Well no, no, no, 0:17:14.359 --> 0:17:18.600 I don't mean they're a joke band. Right here we 0:17:18.640 --> 0:17:21.240 get with the emails. If you ever heard his reels 0:17:21.280 --> 0:17:24.840 polka stuff, it's great, sure it is. Everybody loves weird out. Hey, man, 0:17:24.880 --> 0:17:28.160 back off. His non parody music is wonderful. Did you 0:17:28.200 --> 0:17:32.040 see the documentary? It was not a good documentary at all, 0:17:32.080 --> 0:17:35.480 but it was still really interesting about the amazing Jonathan. 0:17:37.000 --> 0:17:41.200 I never saw that there. It's it's it's very interesting 0:17:41.560 --> 0:17:44.080 in that it really kind of explores the amazing Jonathan. 0:17:44.119 --> 0:17:46.320 But the documentary itself is not not great, and the 0:17:46.760 --> 0:17:49.560 documentary and even knows it like part of the documentaries 0:17:49.640 --> 0:17:52.239 him struggling with figuring out how to how to do 0:17:52.280 --> 0:17:55.800 this right? You know, so kind of something worse than 0:17:55.840 --> 0:18:01.119 a great documentary subject being made by a C grade commentary. 0:18:01.160 --> 0:18:03.400 I see, I see, there's a chance that this guy 0:18:03.560 --> 0:18:05.760 is listening right now, because he looked to me like 0:18:05.760 --> 0:18:07.720 a stuff you should know listeners. So I'm just gonna say, no, 0:18:08.160 --> 0:18:10.359 give it a shot. Well, I'm not saying this was 0:18:10.400 --> 0:18:12.119 a C great filmmaker, but I've seen plenty of C 0:18:12.200 --> 0:18:15.120 grade documentaries about really great topics, That's all I'm saying. 0:18:16.119 --> 0:18:19.600 So the milk carton kids, not the folks thinging duo. Uh. 0:18:19.760 --> 0:18:24.200 This began in Iowa and the miss the disappearance of 0:18:24.280 --> 0:18:28.200 Johnny Gosh in nineteen eighty two and Eugene Wade martin four, 0:18:29.119 --> 0:18:32.159 both twelve year olds, both newspaper boys in Des Moines, 0:18:32.800 --> 0:18:35.679 kind of spurred this campaign. Um, I do love that. 0:18:35.960 --> 0:18:41.879 Ed dear sweet Ed when he he gave credit to 0:18:41.920 --> 0:18:45.960 the Anderson Anderson Ericson Dairy in Iowa for starting this 0:18:46.080 --> 0:18:49.040 in nine eight four, and he said the only source 0:18:49.080 --> 0:18:52.200 I could find was something called quote Uncle John's Bathroom 0:18:52.240 --> 0:18:56.240 Weader Reader in quote, it was like, have you ever 0:18:56.400 --> 0:18:59.400 listened to the podcast before? I just since you going 0:18:59.480 --> 0:19:05.720 like what something called red is going on here? This 0:19:05.800 --> 0:19:08.760 is like I'm in bizarro world or something. Well that's 0:19:08.760 --> 0:19:11.919 good enough for us. Uh, And I think I believe it. 0:19:11.920 --> 0:19:14.640 I think They were probably the first company to put 0:19:14.720 --> 0:19:17.760 kids on the side of a milk carton to raise 0:19:17.800 --> 0:19:20.520 awareness and say, hey, here's a picture of this kid. 0:19:20.640 --> 0:19:22.879 Here's what they look like, how tall they are, when 0:19:22.880 --> 0:19:26.360 their birthday is um, you know some things. They might 0:19:27.280 --> 0:19:29.600 just like little clues how to identify this kid if 0:19:29.640 --> 0:19:33.560 you see them out clue there's like they're like, put 0:19:33.600 --> 0:19:36.080 on your pirate hat because X marks the spot and 0:19:36.119 --> 0:19:39.160 we're gonna go find Johnny Gosh, here are your clues. Well, 0:19:39.200 --> 0:19:40.840 I mean this was this is the best they could 0:19:40.880 --> 0:19:43.960 do pre internet. It's like, what's always sitting on the 0:19:43.960 --> 0:19:46.439 table while you're having your breakfast cereal that you're staring 0:19:46.480 --> 0:19:49.119 at is that milk carton? And I mean great idea. 0:19:49.200 --> 0:19:50.920 All of us have read the milk carton out of 0:19:50.960 --> 0:19:53.439 boredom when you know there's no good cartoons on or 0:19:53.440 --> 0:19:55.080 something like that. You just kind of read this stuff. 0:19:55.119 --> 0:19:58.120 So yeah, it made total sense. And from what I understand, yes, 0:19:58.160 --> 0:20:01.040 Anderson Ericson was the first day to do that. Uh. 0:20:01.080 --> 0:20:03.119 And it also makes sense that they would be the 0:20:03.160 --> 0:20:06.040 first one because they were in des Moines and Johnny 0:20:06.080 --> 0:20:10.160 Gosh and Eugene martin Um were both abducted from Des 0:20:10.160 --> 0:20:13.120 Moines two years apart, probably by the same person from 0:20:13.240 --> 0:20:17.119 what I read um and they so like this local 0:20:17.200 --> 0:20:19.400 dairy doing this is like part of a get out 0:20:19.400 --> 0:20:22.640 the info campaign makes a lot of sense. I did 0:20:22.760 --> 0:20:25.840 see that a local grocery store chain was actually the 0:20:25.840 --> 0:20:29.760 first to print their images and missing like info on 0:20:29.840 --> 0:20:33.679 their bags, and that Anderson Ericson probably got the idea 0:20:33.840 --> 0:20:36.200 or somebody got the idea and went to Anderson Ericson 0:20:36.200 --> 0:20:38.560 and they said sure. The offshot of this, they were 0:20:38.600 --> 0:20:40.800 the first producers of milk cartons. And a lot of 0:20:40.800 --> 0:20:43.320 people say, well, it was eating Pats who was the 0:20:43.359 --> 0:20:45.879 first kid who was on a milk carton, probably on 0:20:45.960 --> 0:20:49.040 a national level, but on a milk carton. Ever, it 0:20:49.160 --> 0:20:52.919 was two kids. It was Johnny Gosh and Eugene Martin, 0:20:53.000 --> 0:20:55.800 and both of them were paper boys, abducted from their 0:20:55.880 --> 0:20:58.520 routes in the early morning. It was just their stories 0:20:58.560 --> 0:21:02.720 are so sad, man, Yeah, super sad. The milk carton 0:21:02.760 --> 0:21:07.200 thing picked up again in Chicago and then California, and then, 0:21:07.240 --> 0:21:11.080 like you said, eventually became a national thing. In the 0:21:11.160 --> 0:21:15.119 National Child Safety Council, which is a nonprofit, they launched 0:21:15.119 --> 0:21:18.080 this nationwide campaign and that's where beaten Pats probably comes 0:21:18.080 --> 0:21:20.879 into play. And then it was on you know a 0:21:20.880 --> 0:21:24.440 lot of stuff. It was on grocery bags and pizza boxes, 0:21:24.560 --> 0:21:27.359 and it wasn't around long though, Like I kind of 0:21:27.359 --> 0:21:30.280 thought it might still be a thing even but I 0:21:30.320 --> 0:21:32.879 think it only lasted you know, a handful of years. 0:21:32.880 --> 0:21:35.879 And let in nineties mid nineties, the whole milk carton 0:21:35.960 --> 0:21:39.359 thing had kind of gone away, gone away, with people saying, 0:21:39.440 --> 0:21:41.840 you know, it was successful while it lasted, but it 0:21:41.920 --> 0:21:44.680 just had its run. And then other people, of course, 0:21:44.760 --> 0:21:46.399 now I look back and say, but was it really 0:21:46.440 --> 0:21:50.280 successful in that? Did it lead into you finding some 0:21:50.359 --> 0:21:53.560 of these kids? And I don't necessarily think that is 0:21:53.600 --> 0:21:57.720 the only measure of success, uh if it's an awareness campaign, 0:21:57.760 --> 0:22:00.760 but they definitely can't go back and say, well, yeah, 0:22:00.840 --> 0:22:02.840 look at this list of kids that were found because 0:22:02.880 --> 0:22:05.320 of the milk carton campaign. And actually there is I 0:22:05.320 --> 0:22:08.879 saw the number three that there are three named kids 0:22:08.920 --> 0:22:13.280 who were rescued and found and returned based on milk cartons. 0:22:13.280 --> 0:22:16.000 But there's only one actual name I can find, and 0:22:16.040 --> 0:22:17.680 you can find it all over the place. Her name 0:22:17.720 --> 0:22:19.879 is little Bonnie Lowman. I had in the little her 0:22:19.920 --> 0:22:24.119 first name is actually Bonnie, not little, and she has 0:22:24.160 --> 0:22:27.720 one of the most name for a kid, little Bonnie Lowman. Yeah. Um, 0:22:27.840 --> 0:22:29.720 until you reach in a middle age and you're like, 0:22:29.800 --> 0:22:33.040 oh my god. Um. So she has one of the 0:22:33.040 --> 0:22:36.040 most amazing stories you could possibly encounter when it comes 0:22:36.080 --> 0:22:39.960 to kids on milk cartons, don't you think? Yeah? I 0:22:40.000 --> 0:22:44.159 mean she was kidnapped by her mom and stepdad and 0:22:44.280 --> 0:22:47.119 as the story goes, recognized her own image on a 0:22:47.200 --> 0:22:50.720 milk carton and like kept it, you know, cut it 0:22:50.720 --> 0:22:53.480 out and kept it on our wall. And I guess 0:22:53.560 --> 0:22:57.000 a kid's or a friend's parents saw it and called 0:22:57.000 --> 0:23:01.000