1 00:00:01,480 --> 00:00:04,280 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you should know, a production of I 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:14,280 Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Hey everyone, and welcome to the podcast. I'm 3 00:00:14,360 --> 00:00:17,840 Speaker 1: Josh Clark and there's Charles W. Chuck Bryant, and we're 4 00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:21,000 Speaker 1: flying solo today. But that's cool because God is our 5 00:00:21,079 --> 00:00:28,200 Speaker 1: co pilot. This good one. I thought it too, because 6 00:00:28,680 --> 00:00:31,120 Speaker 1: God has nothing to do with you and me, that 7 00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:38,000 Speaker 1: kind of unless he was one of us. What a song, 8 00:00:38,159 --> 00:00:39,800 Speaker 1: What a great song. I can't wait till that comes 9 00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:43,960 Speaker 1: back in five years. Who was that? Oh? I think 10 00:00:44,840 --> 00:00:46,720 Speaker 1: had been a one hit wonder but it was one 11 00:00:46,720 --> 00:00:48,800 Speaker 1: heck of a one hit like I want to say 12 00:00:48,800 --> 00:00:51,080 Speaker 1: tor Amos, but it wasn't. No, it definitely wasn't. It 13 00:00:51,159 --> 00:00:55,560 Speaker 1: was like Diane West or something like story was too 14 00:00:55,560 --> 00:00:58,480 Speaker 1: good for that dribble. She was good. I thought that 15 00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:02,600 Speaker 1: was a pretty good, good little song. I like the message. Sure, 16 00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:05,840 Speaker 1: just a stranger on the bus. Just a slob like 17 00:01:06,040 --> 00:01:10,480 Speaker 1: one of us. That wasn't the player, Yeah, just a 18 00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:14,120 Speaker 1: slab kid, you not my friend boy? Yeah, just a 19 00:01:14,200 --> 00:01:16,800 Speaker 1: slab like all of us. I didn't know that was 20 00:01:16,880 --> 00:01:19,480 Speaker 1: being insulted. When I was grown out to that song 21 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:23,720 Speaker 1: on the dance floor, you couldn't feel her. Supernumerary finger 22 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:28,279 Speaker 1: poking you in your chest. I could not so. Um, Chuck, 23 00:01:28,440 --> 00:01:31,000 Speaker 1: I feel like we should stop this chit chat and 24 00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:34,200 Speaker 1: get down to it, because we're talking today about something 25 00:01:34,280 --> 00:01:37,760 Speaker 1: that made up our childhood, and I was very dismayed 26 00:01:37,800 --> 00:01:41,360 Speaker 1: to learn still makes up some kids childhoods. A lot 27 00:01:41,440 --> 00:01:45,080 Speaker 1: of kids childhood's still being taught today. Um, and that 28 00:01:45,200 --> 00:01:51,240 Speaker 1: you could conceivably make the case that it eroded at 29 00:01:51,240 --> 00:01:55,600 Speaker 1: the very fabric of society. A very misguided campaign that 30 00:01:55,680 --> 00:01:59,440 Speaker 1: came about in the very early eighties that had the 31 00:01:59,560 --> 00:02:05,280 Speaker 1: very ge term known as stranger danger. Yeah, it's funny 32 00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:06,920 Speaker 1: when you look at this and you couple it with 33 00:02:06,960 --> 00:02:11,399 Speaker 1: everything else. The eighties had a lot of misguided campaigns. 34 00:02:11,480 --> 00:02:15,720 Speaker 1: Didn't they just say no, break No, They're all over 35 00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:18,800 Speaker 1: the place, satanic panic. It's really weird. I think it was. 36 00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:24,000 Speaker 1: I mean, when you look back, it was clearly like uh, 37 00:02:24,160 --> 00:02:26,959 Speaker 1: I think there are a lot of factors, like the 38 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:30,120 Speaker 1: the I think the Reagan era sort of moral majority 39 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:35,440 Speaker 1: years conspired to kind of just they wanted to scare everybody, 40 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:39,400 Speaker 1: wait into everything, Yeah, scared you straight straight into their 41 00:02:39,440 --> 00:02:43,040 Speaker 1: political ideology. That's definitely, I mean, that's definitely part of 42 00:02:43,040 --> 00:02:45,639 Speaker 1: it for sure, because there is a there's a definite UM. 43 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:47,880 Speaker 1: And this isn't just me riffing here, like I saw 44 00:02:47,919 --> 00:02:52,280 Speaker 1: this in multiple places, uh with legit sources even UM 45 00:02:52,320 --> 00:02:55,000 Speaker 1: and we'll talk a little bit about legit sources are 46 00:02:55,040 --> 00:02:57,160 Speaker 1: not And I think there's some good examples in here 47 00:02:57,160 --> 00:03:00,480 Speaker 1: of being careful who you listen to. UM. But there, 48 00:03:00,600 --> 00:03:02,680 Speaker 1: but there does seem to be like a kind of 49 00:03:02,720 --> 00:03:06,800 Speaker 1: a general consensus that part of those moral panics in 50 00:03:06,840 --> 00:03:12,080 Speaker 1: the eighties came from UM Christian conservatives who very much 51 00:03:12,240 --> 00:03:17,240 Speaker 1: into their credit are are UM dedicated to the idea 52 00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:20,919 Speaker 1: of protecting children from predation at the hands of adults, 53 00:03:22,200 --> 00:03:24,440 Speaker 1: and that that's where a lot of that stuff came from. 54 00:03:24,480 --> 00:03:29,480 Speaker 1: But that it was really done poorly and probably overblown, 55 00:03:29,560 --> 00:03:33,080 Speaker 1: and in very short order. It was not the Christian 56 00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:35,800 Speaker 1: right that was leading in charging more was everybody. Everybody 57 00:03:35,880 --> 00:03:39,160 Speaker 1: was involved in this kind of stuff. Yeah, because I 58 00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:42,160 Speaker 1: think you know, if you were a kid in the eighties, 59 00:03:42,240 --> 00:03:44,040 Speaker 1: you knew a few things. You knew that if you 60 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:46,960 Speaker 1: listen to rock and roll music that you might be 61 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:50,760 Speaker 1: possessed by the devil. Uh. If you went outside to 62 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:53,120 Speaker 1: go play by yourself, there was a really good chance 63 00:03:53,160 --> 00:03:56,200 Speaker 1: you might not come home, and that if you travel 64 00:03:56,320 --> 00:03:58,040 Speaker 1: to like in New York City, like the Big City 65 00:03:58,120 --> 00:04:01,280 Speaker 1: or someplace, you stand a really good chance to being murdered. Yeah, 66 00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:04,240 Speaker 1: it was just gonna happen. Statistically speaking, you if you 67 00:04:04,280 --> 00:04:06,839 Speaker 1: went to New York City, you're going to be murdered. Yeah, 68 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:09,400 Speaker 1: and none of those things portry or or if you 69 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:11,480 Speaker 1: smoke a cigarette then you're going to end up, you know, 70 00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:15,000 Speaker 1: like a cocaine fiend, right. Or if you take LSD, 71 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:17,599 Speaker 1: your children's genes are going to be all sorts of 72 00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:20,039 Speaker 1: messed up and you'll be addicted to LSD for the 73 00:04:20,040 --> 00:04:22,240 Speaker 1: rest of your life and have taken multiple times a 74 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:27,120 Speaker 1: day flashbacks for the rest of you if only Yeah, 75 00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:32,520 Speaker 1: for real free trip. But we'll go ahead and start 76 00:04:32,520 --> 00:04:35,479 Speaker 1: because this ed the Grabanowski. The Grabster helps to help 77 00:04:35,560 --> 00:04:38,520 Speaker 1: us with this, and he very logically started out with 78 00:04:38,600 --> 00:04:43,320 Speaker 1: some statistics. The National Crime Information Center from the FBI 79 00:04:43,400 --> 00:04:47,160 Speaker 1: have been they kind of good at collecting missing persons stats. 80 00:04:47,520 --> 00:04:49,800 Speaker 1: They've been doing that since the Crime Control Act in 81 00:04:49,880 --> 00:04:54,159 Speaker 1: nine And it's like with anything else when you collect 82 00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:58,200 Speaker 1: statistics on like missing children, Let's say you also have 83 00:04:58,320 --> 00:05:01,680 Speaker 1: to clean up that list every year, right, because a 84 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:03,200 Speaker 1: lot of kids run away from home, a lot of 85 00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:06,280 Speaker 1: kids come come back home. A lot of kids were 86 00:05:06,279 --> 00:05:08,520 Speaker 1: never lost to begin with that are reported missing, that 87 00:05:08,640 --> 00:05:13,400 Speaker 1: kind of thing. And in twenty nineteen, I believe once 88 00:05:14,080 --> 00:05:17,239 Speaker 1: they added and then subtracted, they added about six hundred, 89 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:20,400 Speaker 1: nine thousand, two hundred seventy five missing persons. That is 90 00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:23,760 Speaker 1: eye popping. And that's all missing persons. It's not just 91 00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:26,200 Speaker 1: kids for that year though, that's not over the course 92 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:29,560 Speaker 1: of a century. That's in two thousand nineteen alone, right, 93 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:32,720 Speaker 1: But they also purge six hundred and seven thousand, one 94 00:05:32,920 --> 00:05:41,280 Speaker 1: d and four, leaving about two thousand actual missing persons 95 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:43,680 Speaker 1: remaining in their system, and about a hundred of those 96 00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:47,480 Speaker 1: were juvenile. And then some of those our kids who 97 00:05:47,560 --> 00:05:49,440 Speaker 1: ran away from home more than once, so they're on 98 00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:51,920 Speaker 1: the list more than once. So if you just look 99 00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:57,640 Speaker 1: at naked statistics and actual kidnapping in modern times of 100 00:05:57,720 --> 00:06:02,039 Speaker 1: a child is really really air and even rarer still 101 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:05,560 Speaker 1: to be kidnapped by a stranger. Exactly. So, Chuck, I 102 00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:09,479 Speaker 1: got my trusty old calculator out, and I got a 103 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:11,039 Speaker 1: lot of stuff wrong, But I'm going to read what 104 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:18,440 Speaker 1: I came up with. Okay, does um and just got 105 00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:22,080 Speaker 1: me with that. Uh So out of the let's say 106 00:06:22,080 --> 00:06:25,920 Speaker 1: two thousand people who are two thousand kids who are 107 00:06:25,960 --> 00:06:28,760 Speaker 1: abducted every year, That's what I saw in one place, 108 00:06:28,760 --> 00:06:32,520 Speaker 1: I think from the FBI, two thousand kids were abducted. Um, 109 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:36,520 Speaker 1: that means that out of the seventy four million kids 110 00:06:36,600 --> 00:06:41,320 Speaker 1: in America in two thousand eleven, each one technically had 111 00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:46,159 Speaker 1: a point zero zero, zero, zero to seven percent chance 112 00:06:46,839 --> 00:06:51,279 Speaker 1: of being abducted. Okay, and that's just abducted. Okay, So 113 00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:54,520 Speaker 1: hating with me for one more second. You have twenty 114 00:06:55,040 --> 00:06:57,599 Speaker 1: you have a quarter of a million of a percent 115 00:06:57,720 --> 00:07:00,600 Speaker 1: of being abducted. Statistically speaking, if or a child in 116 00:07:00,640 --> 00:07:05,159 Speaker 1: the US in two thousand eleven, of that quarter of 117 00:07:05,200 --> 00:07:08,320 Speaker 1: a millionth of a percent chance, you had an additional 118 00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:13,080 Speaker 1: two hundreds of a percent chance of being abducted and 119 00:07:13,200 --> 00:07:16,800 Speaker 1: murdered by a stranger, which is, as anyone will tell you, 120 00:07:16,880 --> 00:07:20,240 Speaker 1: the money fear of being a parent, and that is 121 00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:25,120 Speaker 1: what drove it that there was this irrational fear of 122 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:28,040 Speaker 1: the worst case scenario. And even though it was the 123 00:07:28,120 --> 00:07:33,440 Speaker 1: chances were vanishingly remote, every single parent in America starting 124 00:07:33,440 --> 00:07:36,600 Speaker 1: in the very early eighties was was staying up awake 125 00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:39,440 Speaker 1: at night for decades, worried that this was going to 126 00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:43,640 Speaker 1: happen to their child. Yeah, and you know, that's we 127 00:07:43,640 --> 00:07:47,640 Speaker 1: were talking nineteen, which is the lowest number since they've 128 00:07:47,640 --> 00:07:50,400 Speaker 1: been keeping track. I think that number peaked in the nineties. 129 00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:55,240 Speaker 1: But even in the eighties it wasn't a common occurrence. 130 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:59,880 Speaker 1: It's you know, these days with camera doorbells and self 131 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:03,960 Speaker 1: owns and CCTV and how security cameras like, obviously that 132 00:08:04,040 --> 00:08:06,160 Speaker 1: kind of stuff isn't going to happen as much because 133 00:08:06,200 --> 00:08:08,520 Speaker 1: it's just harder to get away with it. And you 134 00:08:08,520 --> 00:08:10,200 Speaker 1: can make a case that in the eighties it was 135 00:08:10,280 --> 00:08:13,360 Speaker 1: easier and maybe happened a little more for that reason, 136 00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:18,800 Speaker 1: but it still was founded upon parents worse fears and 137 00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:23,520 Speaker 1: and it was never a statistical probability, no, not even remotely. 138 00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:27,520 Speaker 1: And there definitely were more kidnappings in general. I think 139 00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:30,520 Speaker 1: they used to get around a million entries rather than 140 00:08:30,680 --> 00:08:34,440 Speaker 1: the seven hundred thousand or six hundred thousand and change um. 141 00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:37,120 Speaker 1: And so that's definitely gone down, and we'll talk about why. 142 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:39,680 Speaker 1: And then the recovery rate has actually gone up from 143 00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:43,679 Speaker 1: the sixties of the of from the sixty percentile to 144 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:47,440 Speaker 1: the ninety percentile, So it definitely has improved. But like 145 00:08:47,480 --> 00:08:50,720 Speaker 1: you're saying, even at its worst, it was driven by fear, 146 00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:54,040 Speaker 1: which makes it the definition of a moral panic. Yeah, 147 00:08:54,160 --> 00:08:58,920 Speaker 1: and driven by the media that has the statistic of 148 00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:02,760 Speaker 1: newspaper articles about how to protect kids focus on threats 149 00:09:02,760 --> 00:09:07,600 Speaker 1: from strangers, and only about four percent talk about um 150 00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:10,320 Speaker 1: abuse within the family, which is far and away the 151 00:09:10,360 --> 00:09:15,480 Speaker 1: most common threat to a child or people within the family. Yeah, yeah, 152 00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:18,280 Speaker 1: I think um something like fifty eight thousand kids were 153 00:09:18,280 --> 00:09:24,000 Speaker 1: abducted by familiar, non family members, like people they already knew, 154 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:26,640 Speaker 1: and most of the time they were targeted for sex. 155 00:09:27,160 --> 00:09:30,160 Speaker 1: So it's not to say like there isn't a there 156 00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:33,000 Speaker 1: isn't a big problem with child sexual abuse, Like I 157 00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:36,120 Speaker 1: think it's even at the time, it was a hidden 158 00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:40,160 Speaker 1: problem even when everyone was focusing on it, because everyone 159 00:09:40,240 --> 00:09:44,160 Speaker 1: was focusing on the wrong group strangers. Whereas it's like, no, 160 00:09:44,400 --> 00:09:46,960 Speaker 1: you're far more likely if you're going to be sexually abused, 161 00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:49,280 Speaker 1: to have been sexually abused by someone you know or 162 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:53,480 Speaker 1: even a family member. You know, the stranger picking you up, 163 00:09:53,520 --> 00:09:56,000 Speaker 1: abusing you sexually and then murdering you. Was it just 164 00:09:56,080 --> 00:09:59,839 Speaker 1: almost never happened in the United States. Did you happen 165 00:09:59,880 --> 00:10:03,040 Speaker 1: to to sit through the frustrating experience of Abducted in 166 00:10:03,080 --> 00:10:07,240 Speaker 1: Plain Sight? Was it a documentary? No? I didn't see 167 00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:10,640 Speaker 1: that one. Don't bother I. Well, I kind of like 168 00:10:10,720 --> 00:10:13,439 Speaker 1: those vintage like P s A films. I mean, it's 169 00:10:13,480 --> 00:10:17,120 Speaker 1: a remarkable story, but it's on Netflix. It'll it is 170 00:10:17,160 --> 00:10:19,320 Speaker 1: one of the more frustrating things that you will ever 171 00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:22,160 Speaker 1: ever sit through in your life. Do they keep like 172 00:10:22,200 --> 00:10:24,319 Speaker 1: going further and further back in time to give more 173 00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:27,640 Speaker 1: and more backstory and context. No, it's just the story 174 00:10:27,640 --> 00:10:30,679 Speaker 1: of this one family. But I don't want to give 175 00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:34,080 Speaker 1: anything away. If all right, it's just you're gonna want 176 00:10:34,080 --> 00:10:37,960 Speaker 1: to throw your television into the street so frustrated. Abducted 177 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:40,400 Speaker 1: in Plain Sight? Yeah, I mean it's I don't know 178 00:10:40,440 --> 00:10:42,199 Speaker 1: if I can recommend it. You know, it's one of 179 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:44,320 Speaker 1: those things it's just like, I mean, I'm kind of 180 00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:46,920 Speaker 1: glad I watched it, but it was just so frustrating, 181 00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:50,880 Speaker 1: like listening to the Shags album or something. Hey, did 182 00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:53,720 Speaker 1: you ever see that one after school special where Helen 183 00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:57,320 Speaker 1: Hunt smokes PCP and jumps out of the second floor 184 00:10:57,400 --> 00:11:00,199 Speaker 1: window or school? That was a great one. Yeah, all 185 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:04,520 Speaker 1: time So what were you about to start with? Let's 186 00:11:04,559 --> 00:11:08,120 Speaker 1: take a break. Oh, I think that's very appropriate, man. Yeah, 187 00:11:08,160 --> 00:11:09,559 Speaker 1: we'll take your break and we'll come back and talk 188 00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:11,920 Speaker 1: a little bit about the beginnings of the stranger danger 189 00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:37,079 Speaker 1: era in the late seventies right after this. Stop you 190 00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:42,400 Speaker 1: you know, stop stop fearing. You shouldn't you know? No 191 00:11:43,040 --> 00:11:49,840 Speaker 1: you stop you you know, stop stop fearing. Shouldn't you know? Stop? 192 00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:52,760 Speaker 1: You should know? Okay, Chuck. So it's this is one 193 00:11:52,760 --> 00:11:54,679 Speaker 1: of those rare things where you can kind of point 194 00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:58,520 Speaker 1: to a moment in history where society change, there is 195 00:11:58,559 --> 00:12:01,920 Speaker 1: a sea change, And it really happened in May of nine, 196 00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:05,880 Speaker 1: um when a little, cute, cute, little six year old 197 00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:10,720 Speaker 1: boy named Eating pats Um vanished. He he was walking 198 00:12:10,840 --> 00:12:14,560 Speaker 1: for the very first time in his life, uh, by 199 00:12:14,679 --> 00:12:17,400 Speaker 1: himself to the bus stop two blocks away from his 200 00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:20,920 Speaker 1: family's house in in Soho. And by house, I'm sure, 201 00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:25,240 Speaker 1: I mean like a two square foot studio apartment. Um. Yeah. 202 00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:27,560 Speaker 1: And it was the last day of school before summer. 203 00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:30,040 Speaker 1: This was his last chance as a six year old 204 00:12:30,080 --> 00:12:32,440 Speaker 1: to walk by himself like a grown up to the 205 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:34,079 Speaker 1: bus stop. His mom let him do it because it 206 00:12:34,160 --> 00:12:36,079 Speaker 1: was a hectic Marian and she knew he was really 207 00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:39,080 Speaker 1: wanting to get more independence. He had a dollar in 208 00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:42,160 Speaker 1: his pocket for a soda, his favorite Eastern airlines had 209 00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:45,600 Speaker 1: on and he was never seen again. To this day, 210 00:12:45,640 --> 00:12:48,720 Speaker 1: they have no idea what happened to him. Really. Yeah, 211 00:12:48,800 --> 00:12:52,720 Speaker 1: and this was a huge, huge news story, um, partially 212 00:12:53,320 --> 00:12:56,240 Speaker 1: as we'll see, because it was a little white boy 213 00:12:56,280 --> 00:13:01,319 Speaker 1: who was very cute and um, media heavily slants their 214 00:13:01,400 --> 00:13:06,319 Speaker 1: news stories towards white people in general, white kids. Uh. 215 00:13:06,360 --> 00:13:08,440 Speaker 1: And like I said, we'll get into that morning minute. Um. 216 00:13:08,679 --> 00:13:11,680 Speaker 1: His dad was a professional photographer, so that definitely helped. 217 00:13:12,040 --> 00:13:15,120 Speaker 1: There were tons of great photos of eating that the 218 00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:17,320 Speaker 1: news could dig into and put all over the place, 219 00:13:18,080 --> 00:13:20,640 Speaker 1: and they did. Um. And you know, like you said, 220 00:13:20,679 --> 00:13:23,240 Speaker 1: this is one of those deals that, uh, it's the 221 00:13:23,280 --> 00:13:27,280 Speaker 1: parents worst nightmare. So when a news story gets run 222 00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:30,120 Speaker 1: like this, every parent in the country is going to 223 00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:33,200 Speaker 1: pick up the phone. These days it would be you know, online, 224 00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:34,520 Speaker 1: but they would pick up the phone and call their 225 00:13:34,559 --> 00:13:36,320 Speaker 1: friends and say, did you seek here? What happened? Did 226 00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:38,600 Speaker 1: you see what happened? Like this is the kind of 227 00:13:38,600 --> 00:13:42,280 Speaker 1: thing that that we're also scared about, and it's actually happening. 228 00:13:42,280 --> 00:13:45,599 Speaker 1: It does happen. Yeah, and there were some other extenuating 229 00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:48,199 Speaker 1: circumstances to that just made it even worse. Like this 230 00:13:48,320 --> 00:13:50,720 Speaker 1: school didn't bother to call to ask about where he 231 00:13:50,880 --> 00:13:53,160 Speaker 1: was when he didn't show up, because I guess they 232 00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:57,080 Speaker 1: didn't know he was walking by himself the first time ever. Um. 233 00:13:57,160 --> 00:13:59,840 Speaker 1: And so his parents went the whole day without being 234 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:02,160 Speaker 1: wear it all until he didn't come home from school 235 00:14:02,160 --> 00:14:05,080 Speaker 1: that he had never showed up. Um, there was just 236 00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:07,360 Speaker 1: a there was just a lot going on for something 237 00:14:07,400 --> 00:14:10,440 Speaker 1: about it. It just struck everybody in just the right way. 238 00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:15,520 Speaker 1: It's just heartbreaking and it scared parents to death. And 239 00:14:15,559 --> 00:14:18,360 Speaker 1: that was in May of nineteen seventy nine, and you 240 00:14:18,360 --> 00:14:21,720 Speaker 1: can fast forward to just over two years later, uh, 241 00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:26,040 Speaker 1: this time in Hollywood, Florida, another six year old, another 242 00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:30,680 Speaker 1: cute little white kid named Adam Walsh, was abducted from 243 00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:34,640 Speaker 1: a Sears store while his mom shopped like two miles over. 244 00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:38,360 Speaker 1: He was playing like video games in the store and 245 00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:40,880 Speaker 1: his mom was doing some shopping, something that parents did 246 00:14:40,960 --> 00:14:44,360 Speaker 1: all the time back then. Like it was astounding that 247 00:14:44,400 --> 00:14:46,560 Speaker 1: he was even in the same store at the mall 248 00:14:46,640 --> 00:14:48,360 Speaker 1: as her. He could have been anywhere in the mall, 249 00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:51,240 Speaker 1: like at that time, and he was abducted while she 250 00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:53,760 Speaker 1: was just a few miles over. And then even worse 251 00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:56,760 Speaker 1: than I think eaten and this this really kind of cemented, 252 00:14:56,840 --> 00:14:59,600 Speaker 1: like the Eating Pat's disappearance was in a one off, 253 00:14:59,640 --> 00:15:02,000 Speaker 1: like we're we're dealing with a huge social problem now. 254 00:15:02,400 --> 00:15:05,840 Speaker 1: Is that Adam Walsh's um poor little head was found 255 00:15:06,040 --> 00:15:09,440 Speaker 1: floating in a canal about ten days after he went missing. 256 00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:12,320 Speaker 1: And that that was it. I mean, that was it. 257 00:15:12,360 --> 00:15:16,440 Speaker 1: That didn't just scared parents, that scared everybody. Anyone who 258 00:15:16,440 --> 00:15:19,720 Speaker 1: heard about it was now scared to death of stranger 259 00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:23,520 Speaker 1: danger and abductions and being murdered by some mirando who 260 00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:27,000 Speaker 1: picks you up. Yeah, And uh, if you noticed Josh 261 00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:28,840 Speaker 1: earlier saying we don't know what for sure what happened 262 00:15:28,840 --> 00:15:32,280 Speaker 1: in the Eaton Pats case, his body was never found. 263 00:15:32,360 --> 00:15:35,040 Speaker 1: In twenty twelve, there was a man named Pedro Hernandez 264 00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:37,840 Speaker 1: who was a store clerk that worked in the same 265 00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:41,000 Speaker 1: neighborhood in New York who confessed to killing him, and 266 00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:44,600 Speaker 1: he was convicted in seventeen. But uh, it was a 267 00:15:44,640 --> 00:15:48,680 Speaker 1: pretty flimsy case and a flimsy confession, and I think 268 00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:53,280 Speaker 1: generally everyone kind of says, you know, it's not case closed. 269 00:15:53,320 --> 00:15:56,080 Speaker 1: We still don't really know for sure what happened, even 270 00:15:56,120 --> 00:15:59,240 Speaker 1: though there was a confession, because there was nobody that 271 00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:01,600 Speaker 1: was ever found. And I don't think the parents ever 272 00:16:01,680 --> 00:16:04,560 Speaker 1: felt closure like they deserved no, no for sure, and 273 00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:06,800 Speaker 1: they I mean they had already previously zeroed in on 274 00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:09,760 Speaker 1: another suspect named Jose Ramos, who was somebody who had 275 00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:14,640 Speaker 1: a relationship with one of Eaton's babysitters and who was 276 00:16:14,760 --> 00:16:17,640 Speaker 1: a peder asked um and I don't know if he 277 00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:20,080 Speaker 1: ever admitted to it or not, but he was never charged, 278 00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:24,800 Speaker 1: but the um pat's has won a civil suit against 279 00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:28,080 Speaker 1: him that saying he was responsible. So to two people 280 00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:31,160 Speaker 1: have been once been convicted and one's been ruled against, 281 00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:33,800 Speaker 1: two different people in the in the murder of him, 282 00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:37,000 Speaker 1: even though they have nothing to do with one another. Right. 283 00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:41,760 Speaker 1: So that brings us to the famous Milk Carton Kids campaign. 284 00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:48,160 Speaker 1: Um not the Amazing Folks Singing Duo? Is that the 285 00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:51,520 Speaker 1: name of a band? Yes, these two guys, they're they're great. 286 00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:55,560 Speaker 1: They they sort of a Simon and Garfunkly Everly Brothers 287 00:16:55,560 --> 00:16:58,120 Speaker 1: type of thing, but there's there. They like, play it straight. 288 00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:01,120 Speaker 1: They're not like they might be giants or something. No, 289 00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:03,520 Speaker 1: I mean they the music is played straight, but they 290 00:17:03,560 --> 00:17:05,960 Speaker 1: there is a lot of humor in their banter. But 291 00:17:06,080 --> 00:17:09,359 Speaker 1: they're not They're not like a joke band. Okay, gotcha, Hey, yeah, 292 00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:11,239 Speaker 1: it's it's good stuff. I don't know if they might 293 00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:14,359 Speaker 1: be giants, could be considered a joke band. Well no, no, no, 294 00:17:14,359 --> 00:17:18,600 Speaker 1: I don't mean they're a joke band. Right here we 295 00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:21,240 Speaker 1: get with the emails. If you ever heard his reels 296 00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:24,840 Speaker 1: polka stuff, it's great, sure it is. Everybody loves weird out. Hey, man, 297 00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:28,160 Speaker 1: back off. His non parody music is wonderful. Did you 298 00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:32,040 Speaker 1: see the documentary? It was not a good documentary at all, 299 00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:35,480 Speaker 1: but it was still really interesting about the amazing Jonathan. 300 00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:41,200 Speaker 1: I never saw that there. It's it's it's very interesting 301 00:17:41,560 --> 00:17:44,080 Speaker 1: in that it really kind of explores the amazing Jonathan. 302 00:17:44,119 --> 00:17:46,320 Speaker 1: But the documentary itself is not not great, and the 303 00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:49,560 Speaker 1: documentary and even knows it like part of the documentaries 304 00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:52,239 Speaker 1: him struggling with figuring out how to how to do 305 00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:55,800 Speaker 1: this right? You know, so kind of something worse than 306 00:17:55,840 --> 00:18:01,119 Speaker 1: a great documentary subject being made by a C grade commentary. 307 00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:03,400 Speaker 1: I see, I see, there's a chance that this guy 308 00:18:03,560 --> 00:18:05,760 Speaker 1: is listening right now, because he looked to me like 309 00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:07,720 Speaker 1: a stuff you should know listeners. So I'm just gonna say, no, 310 00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:10,359 Speaker 1: give it a shot. Well, I'm not saying this was 311 00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:12,119 Speaker 1: a C great filmmaker, but I've seen plenty of C 312 00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:15,120 Speaker 1: grade documentaries about really great topics, That's all I'm saying. 313 00:18:16,119 --> 00:18:19,600 Speaker 1: So the milk carton kids, not the folks thinging duo. Uh. 314 00:18:19,760 --> 00:18:24,200 Speaker 1: This began in Iowa and the miss the disappearance of 315 00:18:24,280 --> 00:18:28,200 Speaker 1: Johnny Gosh in nineteen eighty two and Eugene Wade martin four, 316 00:18:29,119 --> 00:18:32,159 Speaker 1: both twelve year olds, both newspaper boys in Des Moines, 317 00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:35,679 Speaker 1: kind of spurred this campaign. Um, I do love that. 318 00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:41,879 Speaker 1: Ed dear sweet Ed when he he gave credit to 319 00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:45,960 Speaker 1: the Anderson Anderson Ericson Dairy in Iowa for starting this 320 00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:49,040 Speaker 1: in nine eight four, and he said the only source 321 00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:52,200 Speaker 1: I could find was something called quote Uncle John's Bathroom 322 00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:56,240 Speaker 1: Weader Reader in quote, it was like, have you ever 323 00:18:56,400 --> 00:18:59,400 Speaker 1: listened to the podcast before? I just since you going 324 00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:05,720 Speaker 1: like what something called red is going on here? This 325 00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:08,760 Speaker 1: is like I'm in bizarro world or something. Well that's 326 00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:11,919 Speaker 1: good enough for us. Uh, And I think I believe it. 327 00:19:11,920 --> 00:19:14,640 Speaker 1: I think They were probably the first company to put 328 00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:17,760 Speaker 1: kids on the side of a milk carton to raise 329 00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:20,520 Speaker 1: awareness and say, hey, here's a picture of this kid. 330 00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:22,879 Speaker 1: Here's what they look like, how tall they are, when 331 00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:26,360 Speaker 1: their birthday is um, you know some things. They might 332 00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:29,600 Speaker 1: just like little clues how to identify this kid if 333 00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:33,560 Speaker 1: you see them out clue there's like they're like, put 334 00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:36,080 Speaker 1: on your pirate hat because X marks the spot and 335 00:19:36,119 --> 00:19:39,160 Speaker 1: we're gonna go find Johnny Gosh, here are your clues. Well, 336 00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:40,840 Speaker 1: I mean this was this is the best they could 337 00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:43,960 Speaker 1: do pre internet. It's like, what's always sitting on the 338 00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:46,439 Speaker 1: table while you're having your breakfast cereal that you're staring 339 00:19:46,480 --> 00:19:49,119 Speaker 1: at is that milk carton? And I mean great idea. 340 00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:50,920 Speaker 1: All of us have read the milk carton out of 341 00:19:50,960 --> 00:19:53,439 Speaker 1: boredom when you know there's no good cartoons on or 342 00:19:53,440 --> 00:19:55,080 Speaker 1: something like that. You just kind of read this stuff. 343 00:19:55,119 --> 00:19:58,120 Speaker 1: So yeah, it made total sense. And from what I understand, yes, 344 00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:01,040 Speaker 1: Anderson Ericson was the first day to do that. Uh. 345 00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:03,119 Speaker 1: And it also makes sense that they would be the 346 00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:06,040 Speaker 1: first one because they were in des Moines and Johnny 347 00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:10,160 Speaker 1: Gosh and Eugene martin Um were both abducted from Des 348 00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:13,120 Speaker 1: Moines two years apart, probably by the same person from 349 00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:17,119 Speaker 1: what I read um and they so like this local 350 00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:19,400 Speaker 1: dairy doing this is like part of a get out 351 00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:22,640 Speaker 1: the info campaign makes a lot of sense. I did 352 00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:25,840 Speaker 1: see that a local grocery store chain was actually the 353 00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:29,760 Speaker 1: first to print their images and missing like info on 354 00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:33,679 Speaker 1: their bags, and that Anderson Ericson probably got the idea 355 00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:36,200 Speaker 1: or somebody got the idea and went to Anderson Ericson 356 00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:38,560 Speaker 1: and they said sure. The offshot of this, they were 357 00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:40,800 Speaker 1: the first producers of milk cartons. And a lot of 358 00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:43,320 Speaker 1: people say, well, it was eating Pats who was the 359 00:20:43,359 --> 00:20:45,879 Speaker 1: first kid who was on a milk carton, probably on 360 00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:49,040 Speaker 1: a national level, but on a milk carton. Ever, it 361 00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:52,919 Speaker 1: was two kids. It was Johnny Gosh and Eugene Martin, 362 00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:55,800 Speaker 1: and both of them were paper boys, abducted from their 363 00:20:55,880 --> 00:20:58,520 Speaker 1: routes in the early morning. It was just their stories 364 00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:02,720 Speaker 1: are so sad, man, Yeah, super sad. The milk carton 365 00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:07,200 Speaker 1: thing picked up again in Chicago and then California, and then, 366 00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:11,080 Speaker 1: like you said, eventually became a national thing. In the 367 00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:15,119 Speaker 1: National Child Safety Council, which is a nonprofit, they launched 368 00:21:15,119 --> 00:21:18,080 Speaker 1: this nationwide campaign and that's where beaten Pats probably comes 369 00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:20,879 Speaker 1: into play. And then it was on you know a 370 00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:24,440 Speaker 1: lot of stuff. It was on grocery bags and pizza boxes, 371 00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:27,359 Speaker 1: and it wasn't around long though, Like I kind of 372 00:21:27,359 --> 00:21:30,280 Speaker 1: thought it might still be a thing even but I 373 00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:32,879 Speaker 1: think it only lasted you know, a handful of years. 374 00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:35,879 Speaker 1: And let in nineties mid nineties, the whole milk carton 375 00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:39,359 Speaker 1: thing had kind of gone away, gone away, with people saying, 376 00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:41,840 Speaker 1: you know, it was successful while it lasted, but it 377 00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:44,680 Speaker 1: just had its run. And then other people, of course, 378 00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:46,399 Speaker 1: now I look back and say, but was it really 379 00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:50,280 Speaker 1: successful in that? Did it lead into you finding some 380 00:21:50,359 --> 00:21:53,560 Speaker 1: of these kids? And I don't necessarily think that is 381 00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:57,720 Speaker 1: the only measure of success, uh if it's an awareness campaign, 382 00:21:57,760 --> 00:22:00,760 Speaker 1: but they definitely can't go back and say, well, yeah, 383 00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:02,840 Speaker 1: look at this list of kids that were found because 384 00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:05,320 Speaker 1: of the milk carton campaign. And actually there is I 385 00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:08,879 Speaker 1: saw the number three that there are three named kids 386 00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:13,280 Speaker 1: who were rescued and found and returned based on milk cartons. 387 00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:16,000 Speaker 1: But there's only one actual name I can find, and 388 00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:17,680 Speaker 1: you can find it all over the place. Her name 389 00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:19,879 Speaker 1: is little Bonnie Lowman. I had in the little her 390 00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:24,119 Speaker 1: first name is actually Bonnie, not little, and she has 391 00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:27,720 Speaker 1: one of the most name for a kid, little Bonnie Lowman. Yeah. Um, 392 00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:29,720 Speaker 1: until you reach in a middle age and you're like, 393 00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:33,040 Speaker 1: oh my god. Um. So she has one of the 394 00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:36,040 Speaker 1: most amazing stories you could possibly encounter when it comes 395 00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:39,960 Speaker 1: to kids on milk cartons, don't you think? Yeah? I 396 00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:44,159 Speaker 1: mean she was kidnapped by her mom and stepdad and 397 00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:47,119 Speaker 1: as the story goes, recognized her own image on a 398 00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:50,720 Speaker 1: milk carton and like kept it, you know, cut it 399 00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:53,480 Speaker 1: out and kept it on our wall. And I guess 400 00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:57,000 Speaker 1: a kid's or a friend's parents saw it and called 401 00:22:57,000 --> 00:23:01,000 Speaker 1: the cops. But is that that's not true though, my friend, 402 00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:04,639 Speaker 1: I would put a significant amount of money on the 403 00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:07,760 Speaker 1: fact that Bonnie Lohman is not a real person, that 404 00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:11,440 Speaker 1: it is the internet legend. Yes, dude, I looked on 405 00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:14,359 Speaker 1: the New York Times website is search for Bonnie Loman 406 00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:17,680 Speaker 1: missing milk carton. I even put quotes around Bonnie Loman. 407 00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:20,199 Speaker 1: Did it on the Washington Post website. I did it 408 00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:23,040 Speaker 1: on the Denver Post website, and Denver is supposedly where 409 00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:27,080 Speaker 1: she was found living, abducted by her mom and stepfather. Nothing, 410 00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:31,040 Speaker 1: Nothing comes up, not even a vague reference. She's an 411 00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:36,359 Speaker 1: internet legend and we figured it out, we think, until 412 00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:38,320 Speaker 1: someone writes us and says, no, no no, no, I knew 413 00:23:38,359 --> 00:23:41,920 Speaker 1: little Bonny Loman, right, And we'd say the Bonnie Loman 414 00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:43,399 Speaker 1: and say, well, I don't know. Actually it was my 415 00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:48,120 Speaker 1: cousin's friends co worker who knew Bonny. But no. Another giveaway, Chuck, 416 00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:52,240 Speaker 1: is that this story is repeated almost verbatim around the Internet. 417 00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:55,360 Speaker 1: They don't say where she was abducted from and returned 418 00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:58,679 Speaker 1: to the only the only thing I've seen consistently is 419 00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:01,960 Speaker 1: that the story itself and then that it happened in Colorado, 420 00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:04,760 Speaker 1: And then a lot of the sites that carry this 421 00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:09,400 Speaker 1: story are like Jesus Daley or board game tips dot com, 422 00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:12,200 Speaker 1: not necessarily the most credible sources for like a um 423 00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:15,399 Speaker 1: an actual like child abduction case. So I'm I think 424 00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:17,880 Speaker 1: we may have rooted that one out, all right, So 425 00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:22,000 Speaker 1: what's going on here is panic? Uh, these milk cartons 426 00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:24,640 Speaker 1: come out. It's a good campaign, but all that does 427 00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:27,919 Speaker 1: is sort of reinforced to parents that you know, a 428 00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:30,760 Speaker 1: stranger is lurking outside your home kind of at all times, 429 00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:32,960 Speaker 1: just waiting for your kid to be playing on the 430 00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:35,760 Speaker 1: playground by themselves for just a minute and then they're 431 00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:39,159 Speaker 1: gonna get snatched. And while this panic is going on, 432 00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:41,200 Speaker 1: there are people that were sort of ringing the bell 433 00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:45,480 Speaker 1: for good sense way back in the eighties, even the 434 00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:49,600 Speaker 1: famous pediatrician Dr Benjamin Spock. Uh, he was quoted in 435 00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:53,119 Speaker 1: the Washington Post and five is saying children are bombarded 436 00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:55,400 Speaker 1: by more than photographs. They stand in line at mass 437 00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:59,240 Speaker 1: fingerprinting sessions and shopping malls and watch cartoon characters on TV, 438 00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:03,080 Speaker 1: reminding them to be wary of strange adults. Uh. There's 439 00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:04,480 Speaker 1: a little bit more to the quote, but he was 440 00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:07,480 Speaker 1: kind of saying, like we're going overboard a little bit here, 441 00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:12,320 Speaker 1: and we're actually maybe doing harm by raising children in 442 00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:15,680 Speaker 1: this culture of fear. We did you were you fingerprinted 443 00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:20,280 Speaker 1: as a child? I was never fingerprinted, but I certainly 444 00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:23,199 Speaker 1: remember everything else. I mean, I forgot about the Saturday 445 00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:25,480 Speaker 1: Morning cartoons. It was stuff all over those two. Yeah 446 00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:28,000 Speaker 1: McGuff remember the crime Dog to teach you how to 447 00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:30,200 Speaker 1: run away from strangers, And like that's what they would 448 00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:32,919 Speaker 1: teach you, is like you should scream and yell and 449 00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:36,000 Speaker 1: kick and run for your life if a stranger ever 450 00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:40,480 Speaker 1: approached you, Like if they just hit the basic minimum thing. 451 00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:43,600 Speaker 1: We're like, Okay, strangers approaching you, run as fast as 452 00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:47,160 Speaker 1: you can for your little life. Um, And it was like, 453 00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:51,159 Speaker 1: it's it's definitely easy to to to buy into the 454 00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:55,119 Speaker 1: idea that that culture of fear had real repercussions on 455 00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:57,720 Speaker 1: us growing up, because I remember I was scared of 456 00:25:57,720 --> 00:25:59,879 Speaker 1: all this and my dad took me to get fingerprinted. 457 00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:02,040 Speaker 1: You were yeah. I was like, why are we doing 458 00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:03,679 Speaker 1: this again? It's like, just in case they find you 459 00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:05,840 Speaker 1: at their head cut off one day, we can identify 460 00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:08,560 Speaker 1: I might have been fingerprinted. Something about that really seems 461 00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:11,440 Speaker 1: familiar to me. Yeah, And I didn't commit a crime 462 00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:14,480 Speaker 1: now now, not a little chuck. Still to this day, 463 00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:18,800 Speaker 1: I'll bet uh no, I've never been arrested. That's good. 464 00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:21,840 Speaker 1: And you know, I realized later that my dad preemptively 465 00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:25,400 Speaker 1: ratted me out to the cops really well, yeah, by 466 00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:29,879 Speaker 1: having me fingerprinted. But that was the level of like, 467 00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:32,879 Speaker 1: my dad took me to a fingerprinting fair for a 468 00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:35,320 Speaker 1: little kid, so that they had your fingerprints in the 469 00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:37,439 Speaker 1: system in case something bad happened to you and you 470 00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:40,600 Speaker 1: turned up, they could identify your body or you even 471 00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:43,359 Speaker 1: if you've just been abducted, but you knew what was 472 00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:45,800 Speaker 1: going on, you knew why you were going there, and 473 00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:49,199 Speaker 1: that that definitely did affect me. And I think a 474 00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:52,800 Speaker 1: lot of kids our age, Yeah, Ed has a and 475 00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:54,520 Speaker 1: this is one of those kind of stats that I 476 00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:57,240 Speaker 1: think is a little dumb. But from the early nineties, 477 00:26:57,280 --> 00:26:59,240 Speaker 1: there was a study that found that seventy two percent 478 00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:04,280 Speaker 1: appearance cited abduction is something they worry about. That's just 479 00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:07,600 Speaker 1: a little weird. I mean, I think every parent that 480 00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:11,840 Speaker 1: is deep down worried that it could happen. But it's 481 00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:15,520 Speaker 1: not like I don't know, there's just so many qualifiers there, 482 00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:17,600 Speaker 1: like how how much did they worry about it? They 483 00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:20,879 Speaker 1: sounded like it was one of their chief fears, along 484 00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:24,000 Speaker 1: with like failing their kid, not they're not providing for 485 00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:27,960 Speaker 1: their kids, like like deep down fears, like a big fear. 486 00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:30,520 Speaker 1: That's what it sounded like in the abstract I read. 487 00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:32,720 Speaker 1: I didn't read the whole study, but you know, that's 488 00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:35,320 Speaker 1: how they don't get A prominent fear would be the 489 00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:38,399 Speaker 1: word I'm looking for, rather than big fear, because it 490 00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:41,240 Speaker 1: is the biggest fear. But whether or not you think 491 00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:44,480 Speaker 1: it's a reality that you really should worry about a 492 00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:46,680 Speaker 1: lot is a different thing. I don't know. I would 493 00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:50,040 Speaker 1: bet dollars nuts that they there was a prominent fear 494 00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:53,280 Speaker 1: in your definition for sure. All right, Uh, it did 495 00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:58,120 Speaker 1: do some harm, like in actual instances that we can site. Uh, 496 00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:00,679 Speaker 1: in the boy Scouts they still teach danger of danger. 497 00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:04,199 Speaker 1: And in two thousand five, a cub Scout um was 498 00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:07,160 Speaker 1: lost in the woods and actually if they did rescue 499 00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:11,120 Speaker 1: for a few days because people like there were people 500 00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:12,960 Speaker 1: there trying to help him, like, hey, are you lost 501 00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:16,880 Speaker 1: a little boy, and you know, stranger danger would run away. 502 00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:20,080 Speaker 1: And so in that case, like this kid was trying, 503 00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:22,199 Speaker 1: you know, people trying to help him out, and he 504 00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:26,040 Speaker 1: he ran away from him. So that's that's one definite instance. Yeah. 505 00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:30,480 Speaker 1: And that WAPO article that you mentioned earlier, it was 506 00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:32,480 Speaker 1: just rattling off. This is eight five. This is like 507 00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:35,080 Speaker 1: right in the middle of all this when it was 508 00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:38,600 Speaker 1: kind of rare to question this this mentality, and they 509 00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:40,680 Speaker 1: were rattling off all these instances of kids just like 510 00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:44,120 Speaker 1: losing their minds out of fear. Like they mentioned a 511 00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:47,120 Speaker 1: girl who was got hysterical when it was her time 512 00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:48,920 Speaker 1: to get off the bus because she lived on a 513 00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:51,440 Speaker 1: rural road and she was sure that if she walked 514 00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:53,760 Speaker 1: alone down this rural road, she will be kidnapped. It's 515 00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:56,160 Speaker 1: just a certainty in her mind. And you know, kids 516 00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:58,920 Speaker 1: were like anytime they were parents that said high to 517 00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:02,160 Speaker 1: the little kids, they freaked out, you know, like you 518 00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:06,120 Speaker 1: just couldn't. You couldn't, you couldn't give any attention to 519 00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:09,720 Speaker 1: little kids or else they would be really scared. And 520 00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:12,560 Speaker 1: there's this aspect of the moral panic as far as 521 00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:17,280 Speaker 1: stranger danger goes, where the dangerous group is not Satanists, 522 00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:21,240 Speaker 1: you know, it's not um. It's it's not um witches 523 00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:24,720 Speaker 1: or something like that. It's strangers. And all of us 524 00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:28,840 Speaker 1: are strangers to somebody else. So that means that everybody 525 00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:32,560 Speaker 1: is under suspicion of everyone else at some point in time, 526 00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:35,040 Speaker 1: where a suspicious character to somebody who doesn't know us, 527 00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:39,040 Speaker 1: and possibly a kid, and then that alters how you 528 00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:42,680 Speaker 1: act around kids, and that that has had, over the 529 00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:46,920 Speaker 1: years an impact of how adults deal with kids, and 530 00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:49,840 Speaker 1: it's removed us from that. It takes a village to 531 00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:52,760 Speaker 1: raise a child kind of community where it's like that's 532 00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:54,600 Speaker 1: your kid, I'm not going anywhere near them. I don't 533 00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:56,200 Speaker 1: even want to look at them because I don't want 534 00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:58,280 Speaker 1: somebody to think I'm trying to kidnap them or something. 535 00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:01,640 Speaker 1: And that has had a real impact on how adults 536 00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:04,440 Speaker 1: deal with kids, and that is surely having an impact 537 00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:09,000 Speaker 1: on how children develop in a community in society. Yeah, 538 00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:12,120 Speaker 1: didn't you find a thing where it said that men 539 00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:16,200 Speaker 1: and these are these days men are more reticent to 540 00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:18,520 Speaker 1: like help out a child because of that fear. Yeah, 541 00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:21,280 Speaker 1: something like sixty seven or seventy said they would not 542 00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:24,640 Speaker 1: help a kid who was who needed help. They would 543 00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:27,280 Speaker 1: like so much smaller percent, but basically most of them said, 544 00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:29,920 Speaker 1: I just keep walking because I'd be so worried that 545 00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:32,840 Speaker 1: that people were wondering why I was approaching a little kid. 546 00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:36,680 Speaker 1: And then a smaller proportion said that they would go 547 00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:40,280 Speaker 1: find a woman to help, or maybe the cops or 548 00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:42,640 Speaker 1: something like that, but they would not step in and 549 00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:46,520 Speaker 1: fulfill their normal social roles an adults helping a kid 550 00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:50,040 Speaker 1: in need, and that that's just that was a UK survey, 551 00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:52,680 Speaker 1: I think, But that's um, you know, that definitely applies 552 00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:54,800 Speaker 1: over here as well too. I didn't know it's the 553 00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:58,320 Speaker 1: UK should told me that this. Did the studies say, 554 00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:00,680 Speaker 1: you know, are men on the way to the pub 555 00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:06,160 Speaker 1: survey and said little humor there trying to light the move. 556 00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:08,680 Speaker 1: I liked it. It worked. It also made me want 557 00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:11,800 Speaker 1: a nice draft beer. Oh boy. I went to this 558 00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:14,720 Speaker 1: great pub in Manchester when we did that show. That 559 00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:16,760 Speaker 1: was just that was one of my great days in England. 560 00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:19,680 Speaker 1: It was so awesome. That place was on a probably 561 00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:23,040 Speaker 1: a one ft slant that floor. It was so old. 562 00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:26,440 Speaker 1: That's awesome. I actually found a Topas place in Manchester 563 00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:28,440 Speaker 1: because remember we were there for like a couple of 564 00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:31,920 Speaker 1: days and I ate there probably like three or four 565 00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:34,880 Speaker 1: or five times. It was so good. But I was 566 00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:37,120 Speaker 1: aware that I was eating at a Topas place in Manchester. 567 00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:40,000 Speaker 1: I finally hit a pub in No I did I. 568 00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:42,920 Speaker 1: I hit one in Manchester to kind of buy the venue. Yeah. 569 00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:45,400 Speaker 1: They're pretty neat, little little places, aren't they. It's a 570 00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:48,479 Speaker 1: good time. Yeah, you gotta get back there. Uh. So. 571 00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:53,160 Speaker 1: There's something called the children's independent or called children's independent mobility, 572 00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:57,560 Speaker 1: and it's a measurement of how free your kid is 573 00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:00,520 Speaker 1: to move about your neighborhood and to explore or things 574 00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:04,080 Speaker 1: without supervision, Like sure, walked down to the playground or 575 00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:06,000 Speaker 1: walked down to your friend's house. That kind of thing. 576 00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:10,840 Speaker 1: And a higher see I am is a really good 577 00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:15,080 Speaker 1: thing that correlates with psychological development, with analytical skills, with 578 00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:19,800 Speaker 1: motor skills. It gives the kid um just sort of 579 00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:23,479 Speaker 1: more um confidence and knowledge about their community. And get this, 580 00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:28,200 Speaker 1: it gives it makes kids more aware of true dangers 581 00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:33,080 Speaker 1: than if you're constantly watching them instead of stranger danger. 582 00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:36,280 Speaker 1: It makes kids more aware of like a real danger 583 00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:38,600 Speaker 1: that might be out there, like they have they have 584 00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:42,600 Speaker 1: done studies and figured this out right. So we talked 585 00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:45,120 Speaker 1: a lot about that in our Free Range Children episode. 586 00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:48,280 Speaker 1: I don't know if you talked specifically about that that measure, 587 00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:51,920 Speaker 1: but um, I mean, we definitely found that that. Yes, 588 00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:54,720 Speaker 1: your your kid is just more well rounded and developed 589 00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:57,240 Speaker 1: if they're allowed to explore the world on their own terms. 590 00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:00,560 Speaker 1: You know, within reason. Nobody's saying like let your kid 591 00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:03,640 Speaker 1: play with flaming knives or anything like that, but we 592 00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:09,600 Speaker 1: really exactly also known as the swing set um, but 593 00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:12,280 Speaker 1: the the you know, there's a there's a pendulum that 594 00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:15,760 Speaker 1: swings between things like that, and it has swung way 595 00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:17,600 Speaker 1: too far in the other way. If if you guys 596 00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:19,560 Speaker 1: will just allow me to get up on my soapbox 597 00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:24,000 Speaker 1: for a second, please do it. Okay, I just got 598 00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:26,560 Speaker 1: one toe up and then came back. All right, well 599 00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:29,160 Speaker 1: you're off your soapbox. Let's take our final break. We'll 600 00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:31,600 Speaker 1: talk a little bit more about the criticism of stranger 601 00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:34,520 Speaker 1: danger and sort of some of the best practices these 602 00:33:34,600 --> 00:34:13,080 Speaker 1: days right after this, you know, stump, No, you know, stump. Alright, 603 00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:17,640 Speaker 1: So we mentioned earlier news stories, uh, as far as 604 00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:21,359 Speaker 1: child abductions covering cute, little white kids, and that's kind 605 00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:22,759 Speaker 1: of always been the case. And that's one of the 606 00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:27,080 Speaker 1: biggest criticisms of media coverage, uh, is it's very much 607 00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:33,520 Speaker 1: disproportionately covers white children in those cases and ignores cases 608 00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:37,080 Speaker 1: of people of color. Um. There's an organization called Black 609 00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:40,200 Speaker 1: and Missing because of this, and they report that thirty 610 00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:43,600 Speaker 1: seven percent of missing kids just a few years ago 611 00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:47,239 Speaker 1: were people of color, which is a much higher percentage 612 00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:52,000 Speaker 1: proportionately than the overall population. But you're not hearing about 613 00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:54,319 Speaker 1: this stuff in the news like you would if it 614 00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:58,160 Speaker 1: was you know, the pageant queen, right exactly. It's just 615 00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:01,040 Speaker 1: I mean, it's just that kind of gets it across 616 00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:05,080 Speaker 1: pretty pretty clearly. Yeah, So what we're not saying is 617 00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:08,279 Speaker 1: that there is no risk to your kid being abducted 618 00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:12,440 Speaker 1: by a stranger. It it obviously happens, because we do 619 00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:16,239 Speaker 1: see it on the news, um and and it is 620 00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:19,399 Speaker 1: every parent's worse nightmare. And I think that's probably why 621 00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:22,160 Speaker 1: it's always been such a thing. It's because it's the 622 00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:25,279 Speaker 1: it's the worst thing you can imagine happening, because not 623 00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:29,000 Speaker 1: only has that happened, and that that is horrific in 624 00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:31,440 Speaker 1: its own right, but that also means that you have 625 00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:34,400 Speaker 1: failed to do your number one job is to protect 626 00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:37,680 Speaker 1: your kid at all costs. Yeah, man, I can't. I 627 00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:41,800 Speaker 1: just it's astounding that people can go on from that, 628 00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:44,560 Speaker 1: they can manage to keep living. You know, I don't 629 00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:47,359 Speaker 1: get it at all, but it's one of the things 630 00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:48,640 Speaker 1: that they do though, and I think one of the 631 00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:51,240 Speaker 1: things that gives them purpose in life from that point 632 00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:53,920 Speaker 1: on is a lot of parents, especially some of the 633 00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:58,200 Speaker 1: early more prominent national cases like Eating pats as parents, 634 00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:02,320 Speaker 1: the Walshes, Adam Walsh his parents, and Johnny Gash's parents, 635 00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:06,680 Speaker 1: they all threw themselves into like lobbying for social reform, 636 00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:10,080 Speaker 1: and their their lobbying efforts did lead to things like 637 00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:13,960 Speaker 1: the National Center for Missing Exploited Children to be developed 638 00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:16,920 Speaker 1: and um National Missing Kids Day to start to be 639 00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:20,200 Speaker 1: recognized on May which is the anniversary of John of 640 00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:23,680 Speaker 1: Eaton Path's disappearance, and UM, the Walsh's I think set 641 00:36:23,719 --> 00:36:28,040 Speaker 1: up the Adam Walsh Foundation four days after Adam Walsh's funeral, 642 00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:30,799 Speaker 1: like and then John Walsh all is very famous for 643 00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:34,040 Speaker 1: doing that, UM America's most wanted thing, and like has 644 00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:38,200 Speaker 1: has like legitimately dedicated himself to like stopping this, and 645 00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:40,799 Speaker 1: so has UM a lot of other parents. So I 646 00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:43,520 Speaker 1: think that's one way that they've they've put their their 647 00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:46,840 Speaker 1: time and effort and energy into this, imported into doing 648 00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:49,040 Speaker 1: what they can to to make it so that other 649 00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:53,600 Speaker 1: parents don't go through this. Yeah, they're there been quite 650 00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:58,000 Speaker 1: a few of those. Jacob Wetterling Act that created the 651 00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:04,920 Speaker 1: the Sex Offender Registry, and interestingly, his mother eventually on 652 00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:09,080 Speaker 1: a podcast said she she expressed regret about these registries 653 00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:14,880 Speaker 1: that were expanded. UM she felt like overly expanded and 654 00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:18,919 Speaker 1: endlessly punitive basically and saying like you're on this list 655 00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:23,120 Speaker 1: forever and you're never allowed to reintegrate into society. And 656 00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:27,560 Speaker 1: is that fair? Especially when they've expanded those registries to 657 00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:31,120 Speaker 1: include things like if you got caught urinating in public, 658 00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:37,000 Speaker 1: you are registered sex offender, which is really interesting. I've 659 00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:39,680 Speaker 1: I've never been caught, but boy, I've been in public 660 00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:42,320 Speaker 1: plenty of times. I've got a little bladder and sometimes 661 00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:45,160 Speaker 1: I just gotta go. But that happens, and and um, 662 00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:48,000 Speaker 1: apparently again, especially the one where you're having like, um, 663 00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:51,600 Speaker 1: consensual sex as a teenager and like, depending on your state, 664 00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:54,600 Speaker 1: so you're seventeen and the girls sixteen, you can you 665 00:37:54,760 --> 00:37:58,720 Speaker 1: may if you're caught, if the parents prosecute you, um, 666 00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:00,960 Speaker 1: you may be on the sex offender registry for the 667 00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:03,720 Speaker 1: rest of your life. And apparently that happens just proportionately 668 00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:07,600 Speaker 1: two kids of color. So the whole thing is like, like, 669 00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:10,200 Speaker 1: the sex offender registry is not in and of itself 670 00:38:10,239 --> 00:38:12,280 Speaker 1: a bad thing, Like it's meant to be a tool 671 00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:16,560 Speaker 1: to warn communities, like, hey, there's somebody who has perpetrated 672 00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:19,680 Speaker 1: and more in many cases a crime against a child, 673 00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:22,800 Speaker 1: and you should know that that they live at this apartment. 674 00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:26,200 Speaker 1: But it's not just a cut and dried issue. People 675 00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:29,760 Speaker 1: can be categorized unfairly, get caught up in that dragnet. 676 00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:33,319 Speaker 1: The categories can be far too expanded. And then yeah, like, um, 677 00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:38,319 Speaker 1: Jacob's mom was saying there's no redemption there. In fact, 678 00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:41,160 Speaker 1: like there's only like in most towns because you can't 679 00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:44,200 Speaker 1: live within X number of feet from a bus stop 680 00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:47,040 Speaker 1: or a school or a plate or a park. There's 681 00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:51,080 Speaker 1: like very small pockets where a sex offender can legally live. 682 00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:56,919 Speaker 1: And that means that you've got like these little sex offenders. Yeah, 683 00:38:56,920 --> 00:38:59,239 Speaker 1: of sex offenders who are on the sex registry list, 684 00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:01,480 Speaker 1: and they become shunned and outcasts, and a lot of 685 00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:03,880 Speaker 1: them get run out of town or run to go 686 00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:07,480 Speaker 1: live homeless under overpasses and that kind of thing. So, um, 687 00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:09,480 Speaker 1: there's a lot of tinkering that could be done to 688 00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:12,600 Speaker 1: make it more just if. That's kind of where where 689 00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:14,480 Speaker 1: our minds are. But I think when it comes to 690 00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:19,160 Speaker 1: sexual abuse of children, that's justice isn't necessary. Justice for 691 00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:23,200 Speaker 1: the perpetrator isn't isn't where America's mind is typically, you know, 692 00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:26,440 Speaker 1: I mean Jerry Seinfeld is a registered sex offender. On 693 00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:29,680 Speaker 1: his TV show for What what did he do? Pet 694 00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:32,280 Speaker 1: in the barking deck and got caught? I don't remember, 695 00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:35,680 Speaker 1: is there right? Yeah? When they couldn't find their car 696 00:39:35,719 --> 00:39:37,359 Speaker 1: and they're all split up and looking for their car 697 00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:42,359 Speaker 1: and got caught someone else might have to George might 698 00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:48,880 Speaker 1: have pee, but yeah, technically ter sex offender. So like, 699 00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:51,040 Speaker 1: I mean, that's a good example of how it could 700 00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:54,520 Speaker 1: be made better. But the the point of the upshot 701 00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:56,440 Speaker 1: of the whole thing is that there is there is 702 00:39:56,480 --> 00:39:59,399 Speaker 1: a need and a desire to protect kids, and that's 703 00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:02,319 Speaker 1: great and we should be be putting our efforts towards that. 704 00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:05,040 Speaker 1: But we can figure out how to direct it more, yes, 705 00:40:05,239 --> 00:40:08,880 Speaker 1: more smartly, I guess, and in doing so help kids 706 00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:13,080 Speaker 1: more effectively. You know. Yeah. In the UK is a 707 00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:15,960 Speaker 1: good example, they have a campaign um instead of like 708 00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:20,880 Speaker 1: a stranger danger, it's called clever Never Goes, which it 709 00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:23,640 Speaker 1: doesn't jump off the page is self explanatory at first 710 00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:27,200 Speaker 1: as an American, but the point of it is is like, 711 00:40:28,120 --> 00:40:31,600 Speaker 1: not every adult is waiting to kidnap. You go to 712 00:40:31,719 --> 00:40:34,879 Speaker 1: someone with a uniform or a badge, even if that's 713 00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:38,120 Speaker 1: like a store clerk or you know, a nurse. It 714 00:40:38,120 --> 00:40:40,120 Speaker 1: doesn't even have to be a cop walk in the beat. 715 00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:42,839 Speaker 1: If you feel like you're in trouble or something like that, 716 00:40:43,160 --> 00:40:48,040 Speaker 1: you can approach responsible adults. And the idea clever never 717 00:40:48,120 --> 00:40:50,680 Speaker 1: goes is in you know, never go anywhere with a 718 00:40:50,719 --> 00:40:54,640 Speaker 1: stranger because that's how they operate, which is, hey, get 719 00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:57,399 Speaker 1: in my car because I have a cool cartoon playing 720 00:40:57,440 --> 00:40:59,839 Speaker 1: at my house, that kind of thing like never ever 721 00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:03,200 Speaker 1: go somewhere with a stranger, clever, never goes. And speaking 722 00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:05,239 Speaker 1: of the UK, I saw something Chuck that I thought 723 00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:07,920 Speaker 1: was a little um surprising. So they had they used 724 00:41:07,920 --> 00:41:10,080 Speaker 1: to have this cartoon p s A for kids called 725 00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:13,880 Speaker 1: Charlie says, and this this cat would keep his little 726 00:41:14,560 --> 00:41:17,359 Speaker 1: human friend out of danger by like going ballistic when 727 00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:20,880 Speaker 1: the kid did something dangerous. And um, there was a 728 00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:25,080 Speaker 1: n p s A about stranger danger, about not going 729 00:41:25,120 --> 00:41:28,320 Speaker 1: with strangers. So this is yeah, almost a full decade 730 00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:30,719 Speaker 1: before the US was even tuned into this stuff, that 731 00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:35,400 Speaker 1: UK were already scaring their kids. Good for them. Yeah, 732 00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:37,240 Speaker 1: I think we got to talk about the Amber alert 733 00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:39,440 Speaker 1: because this is sort of the smarter version of the 734 00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:42,560 Speaker 1: milk cart and kid and it actually works. This is 735 00:41:42,719 --> 00:41:46,359 Speaker 1: name for the very said case of Amber Haggerman, who 736 00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:51,080 Speaker 1: was kidnapped and killed. The N and Amber Alerts started 737 00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:54,919 Speaker 1: going out to initially to nearby radio stations and now 738 00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:57,600 Speaker 1: thanks to the A and S the Alert notification system, 739 00:41:58,200 --> 00:42:00,200 Speaker 1: you're gonna get that on your phone you might get 740 00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:02,839 Speaker 1: that on your weather radio. You might get that if 741 00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:05,440 Speaker 1: you're driving down the highway. That's a big one. These 742 00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:10,200 Speaker 1: you know, sort of electronic highway signs, those are huge 743 00:42:10,239 --> 00:42:13,560 Speaker 1: because they can actually say, you know, there is a 744 00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:17,080 Speaker 1: a brown forward tourist with this license plate somewhere on 745 00:42:17,120 --> 00:42:21,160 Speaker 1: this road within the last hour. And I believe they 746 00:42:21,160 --> 00:42:24,680 Speaker 1: have caught close to a thousand or or recovered close 747 00:42:24,719 --> 00:42:28,000 Speaker 1: to a thousand kids thanks to the Amber Alert system. 748 00:42:28,080 --> 00:42:30,960 Speaker 1: So it's pretty effective. And those electronic billboards that they 749 00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:33,879 Speaker 1: have on highways can now flash like their picture too, 750 00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:37,000 Speaker 1: is along with the other stuff. And supposedly from people 751 00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:39,680 Speaker 1: who are in that industry of recovering children who are 752 00:42:39,680 --> 00:42:44,319 Speaker 1: missing or abducted, say that the number one, far and 753 00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:47,560 Speaker 1: away best way to recover kids safely is to get 754 00:42:47,560 --> 00:42:51,680 Speaker 1: their picture out far and wide immediately after they go missing. 755 00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:54,279 Speaker 1: U And that was a big that's now kind of 756 00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:57,200 Speaker 1: a big retroactive criticism of the milk cartons is that, 757 00:42:57,560 --> 00:43:01,960 Speaker 1: you know, um, they're circulating these kids pictures often years 758 00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:05,040 Speaker 1: after the abduction, and they probably don't look anything like 759 00:43:05,120 --> 00:43:07,560 Speaker 1: those pictures anymore, and like the trail has gone cold, 760 00:43:07,640 --> 00:43:11,080 Speaker 1: and um, the idea that that doesn't mean that pictures 761 00:43:11,080 --> 00:43:13,440 Speaker 1: don't work. It's just the timing of the pictures. Is 762 00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:18,880 Speaker 1: is um a paramount? Yeah? I mean, man, nothing is 763 00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:21,759 Speaker 1: more sad than when you read a story of the 764 00:43:21,880 --> 00:43:25,200 Speaker 1: kids that never there's never closure and the parents just 765 00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:28,560 Speaker 1: never know what happened. Never a body, never confession. It's 766 00:43:28,600 --> 00:43:32,239 Speaker 1: just my my kid disappeared thirty seven years ago and 767 00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:36,440 Speaker 1: we don't know anything. It's just man, it's hard to 768 00:43:36,480 --> 00:43:39,080 Speaker 1: even read those stories. Yeah. Yeah, I can't think of 769 00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:42,239 Speaker 1: anything much sadder than that. Man. Um. I do have 770 00:43:42,280 --> 00:43:44,279 Speaker 1: one other thing too. I saw also in addition to 771 00:43:44,320 --> 00:43:48,440 Speaker 1: that clever never goes that people are teaching their kids now, Um, 772 00:43:48,560 --> 00:43:53,319 Speaker 1: they're they're kind of focusing more on how like what abuses, like, 773 00:43:53,320 --> 00:43:56,359 Speaker 1: like what sexual abuse is like, so inappropriate touching their 774 00:43:56,400 --> 00:43:58,919 Speaker 1: teaching kids that like they're in charge of their own 775 00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:03,040 Speaker 1: bodies and they don't have to let some Yeah, makes 776 00:44:03,160 --> 00:44:06,520 Speaker 1: total sense because it's more laser focused, um in the 777 00:44:06,600 --> 00:44:09,840 Speaker 1: actual the actual danger that kids can face, which is 778 00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:13,280 Speaker 1: sexual abuse, because apparently we do have an enormous sexual 779 00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:15,960 Speaker 1: abuse problem. The problem is is we've been looking at 780 00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:19,000 Speaker 1: strangers and ignoring the fact that it's almost always a 781 00:44:19,080 --> 00:44:22,400 Speaker 1: family member or somebody that the kid knows. So if 782 00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:24,680 Speaker 1: you can teach the kid what sexual abuses like and 783 00:44:24,719 --> 00:44:26,319 Speaker 1: how to look out for and what to do if 784 00:44:26,360 --> 00:44:29,759 Speaker 1: somebody makes advances on them, then they can trust strangers 785 00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:34,080 Speaker 1: because they can they can trust people in general. They 786 00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:35,840 Speaker 1: can just know that that can come from anywhere and 787 00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:38,160 Speaker 1: if it happens, this is what you do. So I 788 00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:41,000 Speaker 1: can imagine kids learning that today will turn out a 789 00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:43,480 Speaker 1: lot better than a lot, a lot less messed up 790 00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:47,600 Speaker 1: than you and I in our generation. Den we're so broken. Yeah, 791 00:44:47,680 --> 00:44:51,200 Speaker 1: and the and the body autonomy is not just for uh, 792 00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:54,600 Speaker 1: you know, it's obviously great for that, but it's kind 793 00:44:54,600 --> 00:44:57,120 Speaker 1: of for everything. It's about with other kids, like you know, 794 00:44:57,600 --> 00:44:59,520 Speaker 1: they don't want to be pushed that way or played 795 00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:01,279 Speaker 1: with that way. It's like it's their body. You gotta 796 00:45:01,640 --> 00:45:04,840 Speaker 1: you gotta ask them for permission to to do whatever 797 00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:07,799 Speaker 1: you want to their body. And kids, you know, my daughter, 798 00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:10,000 Speaker 1: from the time she was in preschool, they were teaching 799 00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:13,000 Speaker 1: them that. And she'll tell me when she doesn't want 800 00:45:13,040 --> 00:45:15,160 Speaker 1: me doing something, she'll say, no, Daddy, my body, and 801 00:45:15,200 --> 00:45:17,279 Speaker 1: I'll say, you got it. That's great. Yeah, that was 802 00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:19,000 Speaker 1: something I saw was like, you really have to back 803 00:45:19,040 --> 00:45:20,960 Speaker 1: them up. So like as comes over and wants to 804 00:45:20,960 --> 00:45:23,920 Speaker 1: plan a big wet kiss on their right and they 805 00:45:23,960 --> 00:45:27,280 Speaker 1: don't want it. Yeah, you have to listen to them. Yeah, 806 00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:29,360 Speaker 1: or else what is it worth? You know what you 807 00:45:29,400 --> 00:45:33,120 Speaker 1: taught him? So so way to go parents of today. 808 00:45:33,280 --> 00:45:37,160 Speaker 1: I'm glad you guys are figuring it out. Um and uh, 809 00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:39,600 Speaker 1: I'm glad that we could lead by example, right Chuck 810 00:45:39,960 --> 00:45:44,600 Speaker 1: our generation. That's right. If you want to know more 811 00:45:44,680 --> 00:45:47,400 Speaker 1: about stranger danger, there's a lot of it on the internet. 812 00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:50,080 Speaker 1: Just be careful to verify what you're reading and where 813 00:45:50,080 --> 00:45:52,719 Speaker 1: it's coming from. Uh. And since I said that, of 814 00:45:52,719 --> 00:45:54,920 Speaker 1: course the s Y s K one of our mottoes. 815 00:45:55,239 --> 00:46:00,359 Speaker 1: That means it's time for listener mail anything. All this 816 00:46:00,680 --> 00:46:03,560 Speaker 1: love from an Army vet. Hey, guys, want to thank 817 00:46:03,560 --> 00:46:05,400 Speaker 1: you both for being such a valuable new addition to 818 00:46:05,480 --> 00:46:09,840 Speaker 1: my routine. I'm currently going through particularly nasty divorce and 819 00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:11,640 Speaker 1: have lost my career in the process. Have been a 820 00:46:11,680 --> 00:46:14,640 Speaker 1: paratrooper and a medic in the Army for about six years, 821 00:46:14,640 --> 00:46:16,880 Speaker 1: but now I must find a new path while bearing 822 00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:19,240 Speaker 1: this incredible loss. Because of this, I've had to travel 823 00:46:19,719 --> 00:46:22,040 Speaker 1: back home to live while I get back on my 824 00:46:22,080 --> 00:46:24,520 Speaker 1: own two feet. I used to listen to your podcast 825 00:46:24,560 --> 00:46:27,160 Speaker 1: in the Army during field ops, and began listening during 826 00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:30,719 Speaker 1: the cross country drive from Colorado back to the Midwest. 827 00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:32,960 Speaker 1: Now that I'm home, I still find myself listening to 828 00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:35,600 Speaker 1: at least one show a day. Sometimes I find myself 829 00:46:35,640 --> 00:46:38,480 Speaker 1: adopting a pessimistic view of humanity, and it's been very 830 00:46:38,480 --> 00:46:40,880 Speaker 1: therapeutic to know that such kind hearted people still exist 831 00:46:40,920 --> 00:46:44,080 Speaker 1: in the world. Your podcast has not only grounded me 832 00:46:44,080 --> 00:46:47,120 Speaker 1: and ignited my fire for curiosity again, but it's also 833 00:46:47,239 --> 00:46:50,600 Speaker 1: refreshing to hear from two people understand the unending beauty 834 00:46:50,600 --> 00:46:54,560 Speaker 1: of the world. Hummingbirds, anyone. I just want to say 835 00:46:54,560 --> 00:46:56,799 Speaker 1: thank you for your for the enormous presence you have 836 00:46:56,840 --> 00:46:59,600 Speaker 1: been keeping in my life, making it fun and beautiful. 837 00:46:59,719 --> 00:47:03,640 Speaker 1: Never underestimate to buy what you do. Uh ps. Is 838 00:47:03,680 --> 00:47:05,840 Speaker 1: there ever been a consensus on how to measure standing 839 00:47:05,840 --> 00:47:10,919 Speaker 1: water in your lawn? Nope? Okay, and chuck b s 840 00:47:10,960 --> 00:47:13,920 Speaker 1: p p S. I also love tiny things. We used 841 00:47:13,960 --> 00:47:16,040 Speaker 1: to get tiny, little one inch Tabasco bottles in our 842 00:47:16,160 --> 00:47:18,960 Speaker 1: m ris in the Army, and everybody complays, but there's 843 00:47:19,000 --> 00:47:21,319 Speaker 1: something about and they still pack a punch, just a 844 00:47:21,360 --> 00:47:25,040 Speaker 1: little bit of it. Sure, I'm gonna keep this anonymous 845 00:47:25,040 --> 00:47:27,160 Speaker 1: because I didn't hear back from the persons. Okay, good, 846 00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:30,640 Speaker 1: thank you, Mr Anonymous, Army back. That was an all 847 00:47:30,680 --> 00:47:33,560 Speaker 1: time great email. Thank you Anonymous. That was really really moving. 848 00:47:33,560 --> 00:47:35,480 Speaker 1: I'm glad we can be doing something to help you 849 00:47:35,760 --> 00:47:38,200 Speaker 1: keep going during this time and keep your chin up. 850 00:47:38,280 --> 00:47:41,919 Speaker 1: Everything gets better, right, Chuck, that's right. Just stay away 851 00:47:41,920 --> 00:47:46,319 Speaker 1: from the strangers, all right, Claire never goes. If you 852 00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:49,120 Speaker 1: want to get in touch with me and Chuck uh 853 00:47:49,160 --> 00:47:53,000 Speaker 1: and Jerry, your Frank the chair anybody guest producer Dave Real, 854 00:47:53,040 --> 00:47:56,960 Speaker 1: producer Dave God who knows you can get in touch 855 00:47:57,000 --> 00:47:59,400 Speaker 1: with us by saying it's an email at stuff podcast 856 00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:05,720 Speaker 1: radio dot com. Stuff you Should Know is a production 857 00:48:05,719 --> 00:48:08,680 Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts my heart Radio, 858 00:48:08,880 --> 00:48:11,880 Speaker 1: visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 859 00:48:11,920 --> 00:48:16,200 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows. H