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Speaker 1: You do get to pressed sometime, or you do like confidence,

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Speaker 1: or you do have fears. And I tell brothers all

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Speaker 1: the time. You must remember Lois Lane fell in love

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Speaker 1: with Clark Kent and not Superman.

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Speaker 2: You're right, welcome to the next chapter. I'm excited to

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Speaker 2: have you here today. I'm excited about my guests. You

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Speaker 2: may have heard of him or seen him, recognize his face.

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Speaker 2: Jason Wilson is an amazing individual. He's been honored in

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Speaker 2: so many places. He's a motivational speaker, he's an author,

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Speaker 2: he's a trailblazer. He's almost everything you want name, He's

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Speaker 2: done some of it. He's a CEO over several organizations

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Speaker 2: that are bringing life to men in the inner city,

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Speaker 2: changing the way they interact with their sons and their wives.

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Speaker 2: And I think all the men are going to listen

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Speaker 2: in and women you can eavesdrop too. There's going to

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Speaker 2: be some things we talk about today that may help

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Speaker 2: you in your situation dealing with your fathers, your sons,

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Speaker 2: or your husband's I've got your book at home, okay.

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Speaker 2: I follow you on Instagram. I know that you have

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Speaker 2: been used in a lot of unique places and unique areas,

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Speaker 2: and so We've got a lot to talk about today,

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Speaker 2: so I hope you're gonna give us some real good time. Yes,

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Speaker 2: how you doing today?

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Speaker 1: I'm doing well, feeling fulfilled, and just a lot the

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Speaker 1: process about life and then you know, pouring into men

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Speaker 1: and what men need and to make sure I'm real

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Speaker 1: sensitive to that need and that because I've gone a

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Speaker 1: little further than I don't leave the brothers behind and

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Speaker 1: always keep my Oh I'm going forward, always remember to

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Speaker 1: look back and grab brothers to help them to get

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Speaker 1: where I am.

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Speaker 2: Chapter number one, Navigating Fame. You've been doing these training

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Speaker 2: sessions for quite a while. What made you start recording them?

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Speaker 1: It all started the first viral video came the student Bruce.

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Speaker 1: His father is a good friend of mine, So the

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Speaker 1: only reason I recorded it was for them to have

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Speaker 1: just the memory of his son passing his initiation test,

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Speaker 1: and I just said, let me share this on YouTube.

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Speaker 1: This was really powerful because he broke down crying because

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Speaker 1: he couldn't break the board that was in front of

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Speaker 1: him with his non dominant hand, and I coached him

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Speaker 1: through his emotions. He started crying. I dropped to one

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Speaker 1: knee and identified that we cry as men. Coaching through

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Speaker 1: his fear of failure, and he ended up breaking the

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Speaker 1: board and I titled it breaking through Emotional Barriers, and

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Speaker 1: it went viral and ever since then what was normal

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Speaker 1: indicave of Adullum God was like, I need for others

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Speaker 1: to see what's going on there so they can have

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Speaker 1: it in their own lives.

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Speaker 2: We are you surprised that it went.

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Speaker 1: Viral, very because it was a normal thing, you know, I,

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Speaker 1: you know, I started crying. We have a similar I

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Speaker 1: guess pain and love with our mothers both had dementia.

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Speaker 1: And so the first time my students saw me cry

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Speaker 1: was when my wife came into the gym when we

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Speaker 1: were training and let me know she just had a stroke.

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Speaker 1: For me, I was the instructor where I was strong

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Speaker 1: and focused, so they never saw that side of me.

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Speaker 1: But in that moment, I not only liberated myself, but

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Speaker 1: I liberated my students and their fathers. And so after that,

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Speaker 1: the grades started improving their behavior at home because they

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Speaker 1: were finally able to be human and release the stressful

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Speaker 1: moments that get released from our bodies when we cry,

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Speaker 1: and now they had an opportunity to truly express what

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Speaker 1: was going on inside and as a result, Bishop. We

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Speaker 1: had several evaluations. In one that I love is that

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Speaker 1: over seventy eight percent of our students improved their grade

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Speaker 1: point average in yet one card market without tutoring. And

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Speaker 1: that was a direct result of just young boys being

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Speaker 1: able to express what they've been told as young I

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Speaker 1: mean is to not do, which is don't cry.

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Speaker 2: Right, So we all grew up here in that. I'm

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Speaker 2: amazed because you had the opportunity. I'm sitting beside a celebrity.

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Speaker 1: I walked through your hallway. I'm like, wow, I got

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Speaker 1: one picture. I'm looking at all this. I mean just

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Speaker 1: I mean, I mean, some of your messages have really

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Speaker 1: helped me along the journey as I shared with you,

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Speaker 1: and so I'm humbled any time I hear.

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Speaker 2: I tried to keep a little space open on the walls,

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Speaker 2: so let them know I'm not dead yet. You can't

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Speaker 2: something else good it happens in my life. Speaking of

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Speaker 2: something good happening in your life, President Obama presented you

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Speaker 2: with an award. What was that like and what did

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Speaker 2: you learn from?

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Speaker 1: Volunteer Service Award. It was a group of men who

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Speaker 1: were active in their communities. We were in Washington, d c.

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Speaker 1: And it was for I forgot how many hours we

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Speaker 1: had of serving the community. So it was a great

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Speaker 1: honor to receive that award. What was interesting that as

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Speaker 1: we were walking into the White House, that was a

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Speaker 1: day they had the active guvernment, so we didn't get

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Speaker 1: a chance to meet President Obama because of security reason detail,

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Speaker 1: so we had to convene reconvene in another place. But

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Speaker 1: still it was just an amazing time to to be

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Speaker 1: acknowledged not only by uh his administration, but also the

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Speaker 1: brothers in the part of the movement that we were

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Speaker 1: part of.

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Speaker 2: So all of a sudden, coming from a background that

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Speaker 2: didn't look like you'd end up in the White House

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Speaker 2: and you find yourself your taps are going viral, You're

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Speaker 2: becoming a household name. The President gives you this award.

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Speaker 2: How do you see yourself differently now than you did

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Speaker 2: in the past.

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Speaker 1: That's a good question. I you know, Wow, that's a

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Speaker 1: really good question. I think I still see myself as

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Speaker 1: a shepherd boy. I'm referring to David, and I say

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Speaker 1: that because I believe that he wants me to see

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Speaker 1: myself as one of his kings, and so I'm still

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Speaker 1: working on that transition because I still love serving intending

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Speaker 1: God sheep his flock. But I have to understand that.

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Speaker 1: You know, David still was able to do that as

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Speaker 1: he transitioned him And so although I still see myself

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Speaker 1: that way, which is why I stopped for every man

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Speaker 1: who stops me, I never moved past you know, any

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Speaker 1: man that's open enough and willing enough to say, man,

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Speaker 1: your work really helped me. But I also see I

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Speaker 1: need to make a transition into another place so that

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Speaker 1: I can help more men. And so I see it

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Speaker 1: as a plus. And I won't say a negative, but

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Speaker 1: just I need to evolve again. Real that's been a

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Speaker 1: challenge for me. You know, it takes I appreciate your message.

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Speaker 1: One time I didn't know I was me because the

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Speaker 1: truth of the matter is you can see everybody in

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Speaker 1: the room except for yourself, and so some of the

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Speaker 1: most gifted people in whatever area they may be gifted in,

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Speaker 1: are often the last ones.

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Speaker 2: To know it. I find people who applaud themselves too

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Speaker 2: soon generally don't last long because they don't have the

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Speaker 2: humility of having that blind spot. That blind spot is

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Speaker 2: both for pro and the con because on one hand,

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Speaker 2: it creates humility, but on the other hand. It causes

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Speaker 2: you not to prepare the way you need to prepare

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Speaker 2: for how the rest of the world sees you. So

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Speaker 2: you have presented yourself to the face of the world,

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Speaker 2: and in fact they show this is us. Took some

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Speaker 2: of your material ands aired it. I heard it was

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Speaker 2: without your permission. Is that true?

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Speaker 1: Yes, when we worked on an agreement, you know, yeah,

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Speaker 1: they acknowledged it publicly after the fact and again, and God,

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Speaker 1: it told me then I be transparent. I didn't want

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Speaker 1: the cave to really expand. And when that had aired,

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Speaker 1: and I went in my garage and I saw it,

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Speaker 1: I couldn't believe my eyes. And I went into the

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Speaker 1: garage and I sat in a chair and I started crying.

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Speaker 1: And he told me very clear most how he was like,

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Speaker 1: if you don't show it, someone else will. I gave

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Speaker 1: it to you, not for you, And in Detroit, I

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Speaker 1: gave it to you for all of my people across

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Speaker 1: the world. And so that was an eye opening for

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Speaker 1: me that what he is giving me is not mine.

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Speaker 1: I'm just a vessel to make it happen. And so

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Speaker 1: that was a double edged sword moment. But I learned

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Speaker 1: to just surrender and move through insecurities, self doubt, and

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Speaker 1: fears for his glory.

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Speaker 2: So how did you negotiate the contract after they'd already

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Speaker 2: aired the material? Was that difficult? Were you compensated?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, our nonprofit was. It wasn't. If we would have

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Speaker 1: had the video copyright, it'd been a different story. And

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Speaker 1: so but it was something, you know, for to help

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Speaker 1: the work that we do with the young men. But no,

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Speaker 1: it wasn't like what people would think it was, but

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Speaker 1: it was something and they publicly apologized for what it happened,

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Speaker 1: you know. But it hurt a lot, you know, to

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Speaker 1: see something that God had trusted you with a father

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Speaker 1: son initiation ceremony for it to be shown and you

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Speaker 1: had no idea, so that that really hurt and hurt

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Speaker 1: more importantly bishop it hurt my students and that's what

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Speaker 1: bothered me the most to see them like, whoa wait

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Speaker 1: a minute, this is something that we did and yeah,

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Speaker 1: and what was amazing to see the response on social media,

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Speaker 1: Like immediately when it aired, people flooded the Facebook page

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Speaker 1: of the show and said, no, this isn't right. This

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Speaker 1: is the Cave of Adulam in Detroit. And so it

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Speaker 1: got me all fairly quick and it was a good

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Speaker 1: lesson learned on our side.

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Speaker 2: So we got the opportunity to work with Larnce Fisher.

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Speaker 1: Yes, sir, you know when I I've always loved the

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Speaker 1: movie The Matrix. That's one of my top three movies

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Speaker 1: in history. And so he had saw the viral video

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Speaker 1: and uh, someone at another agency, I think it was

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Speaker 1: Paradigm at the time, had said, you need to see this.

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Speaker 1: You know, we're working on a documentary or a docuseries.

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Speaker 1: So when Lawrence saw it, he was immediately captivated because

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Speaker 1: he has a passion with restoring rite of passage, not

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Speaker 1: only in the black community, but in all communities so

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Speaker 1: that we'll stop having so many grown men still stuck

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Speaker 1: in their basements. And I never forget our first call

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Speaker 1: and he was when I heard it was, wow, this

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Speaker 1: is morphieus.

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Speaker 3: He you know what I mean.

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Speaker 1: And so I'm listening and so he's, you know, eloquently speaking.

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Speaker 1: He's like a gentleman like if you know, very definition

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Speaker 1: of that. So when he finished speaking the introduction, I said,

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Speaker 1: you know what I said, Man, I'm gonna let you

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Speaker 1: know I'm your biggest fans. So we just both it

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Speaker 1: broke the ice and I just said man, I wrote

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Speaker 1: a curriculum off of so many scenes in the Matrix

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Speaker 1: to help my boys navigate through their emotions. And he

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Speaker 1: was like a father on the screen, like training me

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Speaker 1: because I always longed for that for so many years

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Speaker 1: growing up. And so for Lawrence to finally meet this

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Speaker 1: guy that helped me create a lot, he didn't he

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Speaker 1: had no idea, but the role he played is Morpheus.

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Speaker 1: I became that guy in so many of my boys' lives,

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Speaker 1: and I often say everyone wants a kneel, but few

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Speaker 1: dare to be Morpheust.

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Speaker 2: Did you feel the kind of stars strike or had

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Speaker 2: there been other people that?

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Speaker 1: You know? What's interesting, Bishop is when you meet people

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Speaker 1: like within the first five minutes, you're like, oh, man,

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Speaker 1: this is such and such, But when you start talking

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Speaker 1: to him, you realize, like, wow, human being. And so

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Speaker 1: Lawrence was considered like a brother. Ironically, his name is Larry,

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Speaker 1: and so I didn't know that at the time that

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Speaker 1: was my brother who had got murdered young.

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Speaker 2: Wow.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and so Lawrence I looked at him after our

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Speaker 1: initial meeting. I never looked at him like an actor

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Speaker 1: or any of that. I'll always call him to celebrate

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Speaker 1: him when he gets a role or a new movie

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Speaker 1: come out. But he was just my brother and we

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Speaker 1: had a similar you know, his mother, you know, mental

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Speaker 1: health as well as same as mine. So we had

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Speaker 1: a common bond right there. And for him, the way

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Speaker 1: he take care of his mother is just it's amazing

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Speaker 1: to see.

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Speaker 2: So a lot of people don't realize that people that

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Speaker 2: they say on television are real people. They think we

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Speaker 2: are caricatures of the role we play or the messages

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Speaker 2: we speak, or the way we sing, or they don't

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Speaker 2: know that does reather who was a friend of mine.

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Speaker 2: She liked to cook, and she cooked picked feet and

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Speaker 2: stuff like that. She never her celebrity status go to

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Speaker 2: her head to the point that she lost sight of

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Speaker 2: her roots and who she was. Do you have trouble

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Speaker 2: sometimes balancing who you are inside versus how you are

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Speaker 2: perceived outside.

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Speaker 1: Never, I look at my bank account. Sometimes none of

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Speaker 1: that really mean anything, you know, And I guess the

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Speaker 1: main thing bishop is people who approach me don't come

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Speaker 1: to me like they're starstruck. It's like, thank you for

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Speaker 1: what you're doing, thank you for the sacrifice. So it's

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Speaker 1: very easy to stay grounded when you have a strong

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Speaker 1: man with his family come over to you in tears

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Speaker 1: saying thank you. So there's no pride there because I

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Speaker 1: know what happened with you didn't come through me. So

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Speaker 1: and I've been broken in so many ways. It's like

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Speaker 1: it's not me. And so now if I was a

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Speaker 1: hip hop producer, which I used to be in at

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Speaker 1: Platinum Records and all of that, that's different. But I'm

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Speaker 1: just a a servant and I know who sent me here.

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Speaker 1: And when I see men and they hugging me and

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Speaker 1: the families, I just, I just I thank God for

254
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Speaker 1: just choosing to use me. And so don't I don't

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Speaker 1: have that issue with that. I guess that type of

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Speaker 1: balance making sure I stay humble. But life in it

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Speaker 1: of itself, like you're saying, people will see us on

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Speaker 1: TV or you know, on social media and think it's easy,

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Speaker 1: but man, we get hit a lot, you know, especially

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Speaker 1: if you're attacking the enemy. So I know it keeps

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Speaker 1: me humble, you know, And so I'm thankful for the adversity.

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Speaker 1: Like David said, before I was afflicted, I went as straight.

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Speaker 1: But now I keep your word. So that affliction keeps

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Speaker 1: me humble, and it keeps me grounded, and so I

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Speaker 1: don't have an issue with that because I'm humble and

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Speaker 1: I'm by his grace. I know it's his grace every

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Speaker 1: day that I make it.

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Speaker 2: Chapter number two, Hard Life. You have had a very

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Speaker 2: interesting life and an extremely rough childhood. Tell me a

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Speaker 2: little bit about some of those rugged places as a

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Speaker 2: boy growing up that helped shape you into the man

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Speaker 2: that you are today.

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Speaker 1: When one I would go back to before I was

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Speaker 1: even born, when my grandfather was lynched in nineteen leave

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Speaker 1: thirty five and fourth Piers, Florida. He was beaten by

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Speaker 1: the police there and then lynched just for wanting to

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Speaker 1: be treated as a human being. After that had happened,

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Speaker 1: my mother and her family were ostracized by the ostracized

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Speaker 1: by the black community because everyone was in fear that

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Speaker 1: they would come to them and they wanted to make

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Speaker 1: sure that there'll never be another Estes write who was

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Speaker 1: my grandfather. So they racially terrorized my family, and that

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Speaker 1: trauma passed down through my generation and I saw it.

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Speaker 1: So that was my first time seeing, you know, such

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Speaker 1: deep sadness and sorrow and depression. And like I said,

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Speaker 1: my brother was murdered when I was three years old,

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Speaker 1: at a formative year during my formative years, something stopped.

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Speaker 1: So my mother loved me and was very affectionate. But

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Speaker 1: when he got taken away, my neighbor said that she

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Speaker 1: was like in a deep depression and not for the

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Speaker 1: community rallying around her, my mother probably wouldn't have made it.

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Speaker 1: And so that lack of affirmation and attention that I

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Speaker 1: needed from my mother during my formative years affected me

294
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Speaker 1: and made me into a loaner, and that prohibited me

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Speaker 1: from truly like expressing how I feel as a man

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Speaker 1: even today. But growing up, you know, my brothers being

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Speaker 1: slapped with the flat size of butchernized by their fathers.

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Speaker 1: I saw the effects of that through their fears, their depression,

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Speaker 1: and I said, you know what, I don't want to

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Speaker 1: I don't want this to be my story, Like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: we're going to experience trauma, but it doesn't have to

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Speaker 1: be my experience in life. And so I fought really

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Speaker 1: hard to do the introspective work needed to heal. And

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Speaker 1: I'm still going through the journey. And then growing up

305
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Speaker 1: and my father, who I wouldn't say he's a rolling stone,

306
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Speaker 1: but I had a brother that had no idea I had.

307
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Speaker 1: They kept us apart for a reason I heard that.

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Speaker 1: My mother didn't want to bring him in, you know,

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Speaker 1: because she was concerned how it would affect the family.

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Speaker 1: But he and I finally met, and unfortunately his life

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Speaker 1: was taken when he was twenty seven. He was in

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Speaker 1: drugs millionaire and so that was another brother I lost.

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Speaker 1: So I thought my life would be one of losses.

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Speaker 2: So your grandfather was murdered, your brother was murdered, Your

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Speaker 2: father was murdered.

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Speaker 1: My father's son, your father. So yeah, Keith, Yes, So

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Speaker 1: I had another brother, so they would say he's my

318
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Speaker 1: half brother. He was murdered.

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Speaker 2: He was murdered. Yes, How when you look at that situation,

320
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Speaker 2: you talk about the way your mother changed and how

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Speaker 2: you felt about it, created a mother of wound, for

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Speaker 2: lack of a better word, in your heart and in

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Speaker 2: your life. Did you go through therapy? Are you going

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Speaker 2: through therapy? How is that working for I.

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Speaker 1: Think I'm always going through therapy, honestly, you know, But yeah,

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Speaker 1: I you know, honestly, you know. I started therapy in

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Speaker 1: two thousand and fifteen when I realized I had a

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Speaker 1: lot of unresolved anger and I was in jeopardy of

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Speaker 1: losing my marriage, and so we did a deep dive

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Speaker 1: and it changed a lot for the good. But my

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Speaker 1: mother wound. I didn't realize I had until recently because

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Speaker 1: I didn't understand why had such difficulty being affected to

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Speaker 1: my wife beyond you know, being intimate. And my psychotherapist

334
00:19:07,359 --> 00:19:10,920
Speaker 1: helped me trace back all the years when if I

335
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Speaker 1: got injured, I had to go get to band aid

336
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Speaker 1: myself and do these other things because my mother, her

337
00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:19,800
Speaker 1: brain was wired to love me. Because my mother, anyone

338
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Speaker 1: who knows my mother and my relationship, she loved me.

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Speaker 1: But she was guarded, justifiably so because she had just

340
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Speaker 1: she had lost a son, and so she's like, I'm

341
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Speaker 1: gonna love you, but I'm scared to really trust you

342
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Speaker 1: with my not trust you, but trust I would even

343
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Speaker 1: say God at the time with her heart, like because

344
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Speaker 1: I don't want to be hurt again. And so because

345
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Speaker 1: of that, I really didn't get her affection and love

346
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Speaker 1: like I longly desired until she developed dementia, until she

347
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Speaker 1: was able to finally forget what happened to her and

348
00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:59,880
Speaker 1: her family because she now live in a moment and bishop. Honestly,

349
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Speaker 1: it's hard for me to remember anything outside of the

350
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Speaker 1: last seven years of me caring for her with dementia,

351
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Speaker 1: because that's something I longed for as a boy and

352
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Speaker 1: even as a man, to really finally, I mean, I'm

353
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Speaker 1: forty two years old. I would sit with my mother

354
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Speaker 1: and lay my head on her shoulder because of the

355
00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:24,240
Speaker 1: weight that I carry and what I do. No words

356
00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:28,320
Speaker 1: were spoken, but just for her to hug me was

357
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Speaker 1: something I really desired. And I learned from the truth

358
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Speaker 1: that as long as we hold on to it and

359
00:20:36,280 --> 00:20:41,679
Speaker 1: we don't cast it to God, it's not impossible, but

360
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Speaker 1: it makes it that much more different to live in

361
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Speaker 1: a moment.

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Speaker 2: You've got quite a bit unpacked there, because a lot

363
00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:56,440
Speaker 2: of men have anger toward their mother's to unresolved issues

364
00:20:56,960 --> 00:20:59,640
Speaker 2: that they will not express to their mother, but they

365
00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:05,240
Speaker 2: and the rage on the wife, and so mother wounds

366
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Speaker 2: turn into domestic violence or rage in the house. Do

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Speaker 2: you think that the catalysts of your rage and the

368
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Speaker 2: trouble in your marriage was a way of venting some

369
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Speaker 2: of the things you couldn't express as a boy about

370
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Speaker 2: your mother.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, And also I don't leave my father out as well.

372
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Speaker 1: You know, grew up in the same city, but wasn't

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Speaker 1: really actively in my life, and very harsh because the

374
00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:30,280
Speaker 1: way he was raised. You know, they were paring it.

375
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Speaker 1: Discipline was the way, but discipline only kept us from

376
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Speaker 1: getting in trouble in front of you. But we just

377
00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:38,520
Speaker 1: figured out another way to continue to do what we

378
00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:42,360
Speaker 1: wanted to do. But most definitely Bishop, I remember being

379
00:21:42,359 --> 00:21:45,960
Speaker 1: in the kitchen and my wife was just conveying that

380
00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:48,320
Speaker 1: she want to spend more time with me and I

381
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Speaker 1: cause I expressed, man, I wish I had more time

382
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Speaker 1: to spend with my son, and she simply said, you know,

383
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Speaker 1: I wish you had that same desire to spend with me.

384
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Speaker 1: I heard from my wounds that this is something else

385
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Speaker 1: I'm not doing.

386
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Speaker 4: Right.

387
00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:03,760
Speaker 1: Here we go again, and I started yelling, and I

388
00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:06,680
Speaker 1: hit the refrigerator and put a dent in the refrigerator.

389
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Speaker 1: And that's the first time and the last time I

390
00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:13,840
Speaker 1: saw my wife's spirit decrease in front of me. And

391
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Speaker 1: I vowed from that day forward that my wife would

392
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Speaker 1: never feel like that in my presence around a man

393
00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:24,359
Speaker 1: that she should be able to be transparent with and

394
00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:27,800
Speaker 1: feel safe with. And in that moment, I realized that WHOA,

395
00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:30,040
Speaker 1: I have a lot of unresolved anger, as you were

396
00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:33,439
Speaker 1: just saying. And that's when I left it all on

397
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Speaker 1: the field, I said, I will never make her ever

398
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Speaker 1: feel that way ever again. But more importantly, I didn't

399
00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:42,840
Speaker 1: never want to express that anger on anyone like that,

400
00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:45,120
Speaker 1: And so I did the work to resolve it. And

401
00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:49,160
Speaker 1: thankfully my father will and my mother are healed. Are

402
00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:56,640
Speaker 1: they're still like moments for moments, yeah, I mean they exist,

403
00:22:56,760 --> 00:22:59,880
Speaker 1: you know, like man, Dad, I like finances. I wish

404
00:22:59,920 --> 00:23:01,760
Speaker 1: you would have taught me more. But then I don't

405
00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:04,399
Speaker 1: judge him because he didn't know. He was just taught

406
00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:08,679
Speaker 1: to work, not invest. And so when I teach young boys,

407
00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:11,240
Speaker 1: you know, you got to learn how to forgive your

408
00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:14,439
Speaker 1: parents as well. Everyone has a cause and effect. And

409
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Speaker 1: once I realized that, and that's how I'm able to

410
00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:20,520
Speaker 1: work with boys with such patients. There's a reason for

411
00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:22,280
Speaker 1: the way this young man acts.

412
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Speaker 2: You know. Forgiveness is important. It does a lot to

413
00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:29,160
Speaker 2: subtle and resolve some of the conflict we have inside,

414
00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:32,280
Speaker 2: But it doesn't fill the hole in the void from

415
00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:35,000
Speaker 2: the things she didn't get. It just stops you from

416
00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:38,480
Speaker 2: bleeding out of us. It's good, so you forgave him,

417
00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:42,639
Speaker 2: but it still does not leave fix the deficit that

418
00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:44,920
Speaker 2: you have in your life. Wishing you had had somebody

419
00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:46,879
Speaker 2: in front of you to kind of guide you and

420
00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:49,680
Speaker 2: instruct you a little bit more. Do you find as

421
00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:55,199
Speaker 2: you get older that boy wound, that childhood wound, that

422
00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:58,600
Speaker 2: issue that you had to process prematurely. Nobody three years

423
00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:01,240
Speaker 2: old should have to process that kind of stuff. Three

424
00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:03,080
Speaker 2: to ten years old, you had a lot of people

425
00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:06,120
Speaker 2: to die, a lot of trauma to come into your life.

426
00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:11,840
Speaker 2: Now you're at an age where it's almost impossible to

427
00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:16,360
Speaker 2: get that void field because now they see you as

428
00:24:16,359 --> 00:24:19,120
Speaker 2: a man. But you go home and lay down with

429
00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:24,840
Speaker 2: that boy, how do you process? How do you work

430
00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:28,640
Speaker 2: on him? When I see you working on these other

431
00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:32,639
Speaker 2: boys in some way? Are you working on that boy

432
00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:33,800
Speaker 2: in you with them?

433
00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:38,199
Speaker 1: Excellent? Man, that's excellent. I mean you hit it right

434
00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:41,320
Speaker 1: on the head. Often say inside of every grown man

435
00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:45,280
Speaker 1: as a broken boy. And so I yeah, they helped

436
00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:47,280
Speaker 1: me heal. You know, they think I teach them, but

437
00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:50,320
Speaker 1: I'm learning more from them as well. The boy you

438
00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:53,080
Speaker 1: see crying from a lack of confidence, I go back

439
00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:55,920
Speaker 1: and heal little Jason. In that moment, I tell him

440
00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:58,840
Speaker 1: exactly what I wish that I had heard, And so

441
00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:01,920
Speaker 1: in that moment he only hells. But I find more

442
00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:02,680
Speaker 1: healing as well.

443
00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:10,160
Speaker 2: Chapter number three, Releasing the Lion. So you've done everything

444
00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:15,520
Speaker 2: from produced hip hop to martial arts to some of everything.

445
00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:23,679
Speaker 2: I mean, you're theologically astute, articulate, well versed, do a

446
00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:28,160
Speaker 2: lot of research on original languages, and it comes through

447
00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:31,760
Speaker 2: when you speak, and you seem to be quite knowledgeable

448
00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:36,080
Speaker 2: about some of everything, earthquakes and everything else. I mean,

449
00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:39,679
Speaker 2: you got everything that stuff in there in a short

450
00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:42,520
Speaker 2: period of time, in a short period of time. How

451
00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:47,680
Speaker 2: much of that is education and how much of it

452
00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:49,800
Speaker 2: is desperation to fill that hole?

453
00:25:57,160 --> 00:26:04,400
Speaker 1: That's really good bisure, I would say more so desperation

454
00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:09,520
Speaker 1: and then revelation, like, you know, something divinely that came

455
00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:14,680
Speaker 1: the guy gave me to create to solve a problem.

456
00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:18,600
Speaker 1: So yeah, I studied, but yet so much was divinely given.

457
00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:21,160
Speaker 1: And then you can't forget the experience piece as well.

458
00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:25,119
Speaker 1: You know, you can find someone who studies, you know, books,

459
00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:27,320
Speaker 1: but if they haven't applied any of what they learned

460
00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:30,399
Speaker 1: to real life and tested it, you know, does it

461
00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:33,920
Speaker 1: really work? You know? I test everything that I study,

462
00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:38,159
Speaker 1: my experiences. I want to make sure that these principles

463
00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:42,240
Speaker 1: line up across generations and so most definitely it came

464
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:46,680
Speaker 1: from a desperation to give misguided in my community black

465
00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:49,840
Speaker 1: boys what I longed to have as a young boy myself,

466
00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:52,320
Speaker 1: and that was a man that they could trust, have

467
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:55,080
Speaker 1: an allegiance to, someone who would challenge them but won't

468
00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:59,919
Speaker 1: condemn them. And so that process is took me about

469
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:02,800
Speaker 1: eighteen years to develop the cave overdeal them to what

470
00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:07,040
Speaker 1: it is today. But most definitely came from I wouldn't

471
00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:10,520
Speaker 1: say desperation is good, because we were in dire need definitely,

472
00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:13,280
Speaker 1: like in the early two thousands. But I would say

473
00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:17,480
Speaker 1: a deep desire to help these boys navigate through the

474
00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:20,240
Speaker 1: pressures of this world without succumbing to their emotions.

475
00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:24,080
Speaker 2: I had got. I had got to interview me at

476
00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:27,400
Speaker 2: one time, and right in the middle of the interview

477
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:32,679
Speaker 2: he said, you seem not to know that you're TDS Jakes. Okay,

478
00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:37,199
Speaker 2: I got that same feeling sitting here with you. You

479
00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:42,800
Speaker 2: seem like you don't really know the magnitude of who

480
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:48,679
Speaker 2: you have become. On one hand, that reads us humility,

481
00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:52,719
Speaker 2: But I wonder, on the other hand if some of

482
00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:58,000
Speaker 2: that for me it worked out to be detrimental in

483
00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:01,080
Speaker 2: a way because not seeing who I will made me

484
00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:05,560
Speaker 2: not protect who I was, okay, because I was so

485
00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:11,160
Speaker 2: engrossed with the pain of my past that I didn't

486
00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:16,320
Speaker 2: guard the power of my presence. Okay. So it's hard

487
00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:22,520
Speaker 2: for me to sit here and see that so definitive

488
00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:26,359
Speaker 2: and not express it to you and not take this

489
00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:30,040
Speaker 2: opportunity to say it might be good to kind of

490
00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:36,040
Speaker 2: do a little research into who you are now and

491
00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:40,520
Speaker 2: not just reflect on who you were then, but also

492
00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:47,320
Speaker 2: understanding how you must guard who you are now, because otherwise,

493
00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:50,360
Speaker 2: in other words, as we don't, you end up getting

494
00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:56,720
Speaker 2: abused all over again because you're preoccupied with taking care

495
00:28:56,720 --> 00:29:00,200
Speaker 2: of that boy and to the detriment of taking care

496
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:03,040
Speaker 2: of the brand that you're building, the person you're becoming,

497
00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:06,160
Speaker 2: the way the world sees you. And I know you

498
00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:09,160
Speaker 2: see all of you, but we only see the finished

499
00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:12,920
Speaker 2: product of you. And if you're not careful, you're the

500
00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:15,160
Speaker 2: same thing that happened with this is us that starts

501
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:18,000
Speaker 2: happening in every area of your life. Because you don't

502
00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:24,600
Speaker 2: know that it's gold. You think it's just pain, And

503
00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:27,920
Speaker 2: I wonder sometimes, have you ever had anybody tell you

504
00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:32,080
Speaker 2: that what you have been given is gold?

505
00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:37,640
Speaker 1: First, I thank you for sharing that that's a real

506
00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:43,040
Speaker 1: that's a struggle I have of truly embracing the lion.

507
00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:48,440
Speaker 1: Like it feels like I'm in a cage, but it's

508
00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:51,959
Speaker 1: what The door is open and God is like, I

509
00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:55,200
Speaker 1: need that lion to come out. And there's so many

510
00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:59,479
Speaker 1: other like stories I could share that shape that lion.

511
00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:04,280
Speaker 1: Uh well make him stay in the cage longer than

512
00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:09,760
Speaker 1: he should. But you're absolutely right, like not only knowing

513
00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:11,800
Speaker 1: who I am, but whose I am, like really like

514
00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:15,600
Speaker 1: he could tell me some days God to say, you're

515
00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:19,360
Speaker 1: not acting like my son. It reminds me of the

516
00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:22,000
Speaker 1: scene from Coming into America when the Father came like

517
00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:24,880
Speaker 1: you're living like this, what are you doing? And so

518
00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:28,800
Speaker 1: I appreciate you sharing that because that's my next evolution

519
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:33,360
Speaker 1: is like embracing who He created me to be in

520
00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:41,000
Speaker 1: in its fullness and not fearing being powerful. Do you

521
00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:45,560
Speaker 1: know what I mean, Biship? Like I never I want

522
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:51,880
Speaker 1: to use power to free people, but a lion, you

523
00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:55,520
Speaker 1: can't free people if you're in your own cave. And

524
00:30:55,600 --> 00:31:00,800
Speaker 1: so I know I feel the power, I feel his anointing.

525
00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:03,560
Speaker 1: And it's similar to like with David when he ran

526
00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:05,480
Speaker 1: into his cave even though we know he was running

527
00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:08,760
Speaker 1: from Saul, but remember he would be he was he

528
00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:11,440
Speaker 1: was going to be the second king ever and the

529
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:15,920
Speaker 1: first one failed horribly. So just the pressure behind that

530
00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:19,280
Speaker 1: alone and then to know like I'm in trusted with

531
00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:23,160
Speaker 1: something and you have I have to have that lion

532
00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:24,200
Speaker 1: fully released.

533
00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:27,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, because the odd thing about it is on stage

534
00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:31,960
Speaker 2: dealing with other people's pain. You're very powerful, very strong,

535
00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:35,880
Speaker 2: very absolute, very definite, very sure of yourself, very confident.

536
00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:38,440
Speaker 2: You don't shrink back from the mic, No a hold

537
00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:42,920
Speaker 2: back from the individual. Your your bowl. And to use

538
00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:46,400
Speaker 2: that term alpha mail. You have that kind of aggressive nature,

539
00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:51,680
Speaker 2: but when it comes to talking about yourself, you shrink.

540
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:58,440
Speaker 1: Can I I'll be honest with you. My desire is

541
00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:01,960
Speaker 1: the opposite of what I do. You know, remember Paul

542
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:05,440
Speaker 1: said he wavered between two opinions whether I go home

543
00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:07,480
Speaker 1: with the Lord to stay here with the people, and

544
00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:11,800
Speaker 1: he chose to stay with the people of God. That's

545
00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:17,400
Speaker 1: my wavering like whenever I have to do something for him,

546
00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:23,400
Speaker 1: Lion free runs. Anyone speaks against him or hurting someone,

547
00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:27,680
Speaker 1: the bullying or a widow and need or a homeless

548
00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:34,000
Speaker 1: person lying comes out free. Strong. Myself is like I'm

549
00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:37,920
Speaker 1: serving you, and when you're ready, I'm coming home. And

550
00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:43,760
Speaker 1: that's just the honest to y'all truth. It's when I

551
00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:49,160
Speaker 1: wake up and I pray to seek after his heart,

552
00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:54,720
Speaker 1: and I imagine him looking at this world today. I

553
00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:57,320
Speaker 1: don't see a joyous God. I see a grieving one

554
00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:01,200
Speaker 1: because of the state of this world. And my heart

555
00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:04,040
Speaker 1: is connected to that. And I see the pain the

556
00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:07,280
Speaker 1: heart you're looking in the kids eyes they're crying, and

557
00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:10,000
Speaker 1: me and accomplishes their eyes. And if finally free into

558
00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:15,400
Speaker 1: crying and hugging and holding so much pain, I can't.

559
00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:19,080
Speaker 1: I never denounce my call, but it's heavy. And you

560
00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:20,400
Speaker 1: know exactly what I'm talking.

561
00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:26,080
Speaker 2: About, Yes, I know exactly. Yeah, it is very important.

562
00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:30,520
Speaker 2: It becomes very important to us to lead the purpose

563
00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:33,960
Speaker 2: driven life and to help other people respond to their pain,

564
00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:38,400
Speaker 2: in part because in some ways saving them is saving us.

565
00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:42,239
Speaker 2: We relate to them, we understand them. But on the

566
00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:48,040
Speaker 2: other hand, I later learned that some of that living

567
00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:53,600
Speaker 2: for others' needs is a hidden form of low self esteem.

568
00:33:54,160 --> 00:34:00,880
Speaker 2: It's like everybody's worth saving, but you and and I

569
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:04,200
Speaker 2: kind of want you to think about that. I had

570
00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:05,920
Speaker 2: plans say this is not my card.

571
00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:09,680
Speaker 1: I need it you know, I do it so much

572
00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:14,040
Speaker 1: for others. Yeah, that aren't planned in podcasts. So I

573
00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:15,480
Speaker 1: appreciate you you sharing this.

574
00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:21,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, it seems like everybody is more important than you.

575
00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:25,840
Speaker 2: And so the planning and the attention and the focus

576
00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:29,960
Speaker 2: and the depth that that that you give away you

577
00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:37,120
Speaker 2: also need and maybe didn't get as a child and

578
00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:42,640
Speaker 2: somehow have trouble receiving as a man. And I'm wondering

579
00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:45,879
Speaker 2: how much your life would change if you would give

580
00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:54,279
Speaker 2: to you what you give to us. M Yeah, I

581
00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:54,840
Speaker 2: receive that.

582
00:34:56,200 --> 00:35:01,080
Speaker 1: I mean, you know right now, I h you know

583
00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:05,520
Speaker 1: your message when you said you're not tired and you

584
00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:10,640
Speaker 1: have an empty cup, say you're empty. And for so

585
00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:19,320
Speaker 1: long because I'm a soldier, you know, I'm not concerned

586
00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:23,440
Speaker 1: about anything but what he wants me to do. But

587
00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:28,799
Speaker 1: he told me recently, especially through a mentor, I need

588
00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:33,399
Speaker 1: you to give that same attention to yourself and so

589
00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:40,839
Speaker 1: and I know it, and I'm after you know this,

590
00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:45,080
Speaker 1: I'm stopping till the end of the Year's the focus

591
00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:49,160
Speaker 1: on me, And so I thank you for sharing this

592
00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:54,760
Speaker 1: because it's confirmation and and not to get back here,

593
00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:59,879
Speaker 1: you know where it's like one of my therapists told

594
00:35:59,920 --> 00:36:03,879
Speaker 1: me you have nothing to prove, and he wasn't saying

595
00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:06,880
Speaker 1: any way, like I'm all that, but like, can you

596
00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:10,279
Speaker 1: just know what you said? Look at what you've done.

597
00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:14,080
Speaker 1: Why are you still doing it this way? And God

598
00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:21,200
Speaker 1: is moving you here? And that's why I'm taking a

599
00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:25,880
Speaker 1: hard stop. Yeah, because the whole name of the podcast

600
00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:29,719
Speaker 1: is next chapter, and we keep having next chapters. And

601
00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:34,520
Speaker 1: when we embark on our next chapter, sometimes our previous

602
00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:37,360
Speaker 1: chapter makes it difficult for us to turn the page

603
00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:41,440
Speaker 1: and fully embrace the next chapter, because the next chapter

604
00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:44,600
Speaker 1: is new, and the next chapter is uncertain, and the

605
00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:48,920
Speaker 1: next chapter can be frightening, and the next chapter doesn't

606
00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:52,920
Speaker 1: necessarily fit the narrative of the previous chapter. And for

607
00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:55,279
Speaker 1: all of those reasons, we find it more comfortable to

608
00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:59,120
Speaker 1: stay within our comfort zone. But God is not interested

609
00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:02,880
Speaker 1: in us being comfortable. He's interested in us being challenged.

610
00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:06,759
Speaker 1: And if we stay where we're comfortable, we do it

611
00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:09,319
Speaker 1: to the detriment of growing into who we could be.

612
00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:13,319
Speaker 1: And we still have a chance to be if we

613
00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:20,799
Speaker 1: can embrace the idea that, in fact, I'm worth it.

614
00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:27,040
Speaker 1: Not just you have no problem with God, He's worth it.

615
00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:31,080
Speaker 1: You have no problem with the young boys and the

616
00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:32,359
Speaker 1: boy on his father's back.

617
00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:37,759
Speaker 2: You see it good. But I expected to talk to

618
00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:40,000
Speaker 2: that guy. When I sat down and start talking to you,

619
00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:43,440
Speaker 2: I was throwing it back a little bit because I

620
00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:48,120
Speaker 2: don't see that guy when it comes to you. You're

621
00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:51,640
Speaker 2: hanging out with Lawrence Fishburn, You're doing all these amazing things.

622
00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:55,160
Speaker 2: You're doing this documentary, You've been to the White House,

623
00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:57,319
Speaker 2: you received all those wards. So you talk about it

624
00:37:57,520 --> 00:38:02,080
Speaker 2: like you're talking about French fries. Yes. Yes, the only

625
00:38:02,120 --> 00:38:05,840
Speaker 2: thing that you talk about was zeal And. Passion always

626
00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:08,960
Speaker 2: had something to do with your wife, or your kids,

627
00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:14,680
Speaker 2: or somebody you helped. And I'm wondering about you. I'm

628
00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:17,800
Speaker 2: wondering if there's anybody in your life who ever asks

629
00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:20,360
Speaker 2: you how are you?

630
00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:27,360
Speaker 1: That's rare. Yeah, my wife, of course, and you know

631
00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:33,560
Speaker 1: my brother Ron with check. But it's it's very rare.

632
00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:38,720
Speaker 1: And I have a few men around. But I asked

633
00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:41,799
Speaker 1: that question more than I hear it. And you know,

634
00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:45,080
Speaker 1: but also I own that too, as I ways share

635
00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:47,759
Speaker 1: with men. You know, if you look like Superman, they

636
00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:50,560
Speaker 1: don't think you can do superhero stuff twenty four seven.

637
00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:54,319
Speaker 2: The only problem with being looking like Superman or I

638
00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:59,080
Speaker 2: find this as being a big man six two. Nobody

639
00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:04,000
Speaker 2: nobody picks up a guy a six foot two. Okay,

640
00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:08,960
Speaker 2: you don't get the passion that four foot eight would get.

641
00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:13,920
Speaker 2: You don't get the concern your body imates, your body language,

642
00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:18,440
Speaker 2: the way that you carry yourself does it almost counteracts

643
00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:20,120
Speaker 2: what you really need.

644
00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:23,399
Speaker 1: That's true. I often say, who towd the toe truck?

645
00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:27,520
Speaker 2: Yeah? Exactly, Yes, who tows the toe truck? That's a

646
00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:32,200
Speaker 2: great way to describe it. And I think you have

647
00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:36,960
Speaker 2: to be intentional about finding people in your life who

648
00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:43,879
Speaker 2: are self assured enough to tow you. The therapy gives

649
00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:48,640
Speaker 2: us part of it. It gives us language for our pain.

650
00:39:48,719 --> 00:39:53,040
Speaker 2: It helps us to sort through the rubbish of our

651
00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:57,760
Speaker 2: memories and put them in order and index and foul

652
00:39:57,880 --> 00:40:01,600
Speaker 2: and categories and so forth and so on. But if

653
00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:04,799
Speaker 2: we stop with naming it, and we don't move on

654
00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:08,960
Speaker 2: into turning the page to living the light that all

655
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:12,440
Speaker 2: of that affords us to live because all of those were,

656
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:15,879
Speaker 2: all of those painful, horrific things that we just talked

657
00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:21,880
Speaker 2: about were down payments on a better future. Yes, so

658
00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:26,240
Speaker 2: you paid the price. I'm going to go old school

659
00:40:26,239 --> 00:40:29,279
Speaker 2: and say you paid for the layaway but you never

660
00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:30,760
Speaker 2: came to pick up the content.

661
00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:32,200
Speaker 1: Wow.

662
00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:38,040
Speaker 2: So for you, turning the page, in my view, means

663
00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:45,040
Speaker 2: embracing your now and your next and planning out dreaming

664
00:40:45,080 --> 00:40:49,439
Speaker 2: about what that should be, and considering yourself worthy not

665
00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:51,720
Speaker 2: just because you love to do it for other people,

666
00:40:51,719 --> 00:40:54,520
Speaker 2: and not just because you care about other people, which

667
00:40:54,560 --> 00:40:57,520
Speaker 2: is wonderful, not just because you love God, which is wonderful.

668
00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:00,479
Speaker 2: But I also think you have to love you. Yeah,

669
00:41:01,040 --> 00:41:04,040
Speaker 2: chapter number four, Growing older.

670
00:41:07,480 --> 00:41:10,919
Speaker 1: You know, I recently had an MRI of my lower back.

671
00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:14,120
Speaker 1: I've too her needd this T ten and eleven, but

672
00:41:14,560 --> 00:41:17,239
Speaker 1: I always feared getting an MRI my lord back. From

673
00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:19,560
Speaker 1: all the martial arts training, the falls and the throes,

674
00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:24,280
Speaker 1: I knew something was wrong, and that's why I appreciate

675
00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:30,319
Speaker 1: you sharing this because I recently came to conclusion that,

676
00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:35,080
Speaker 1: you know, my moment on the mats is done almost

677
00:41:35,160 --> 00:41:40,880
Speaker 1: because my body can't take it. And so that's a

678
00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:43,200
Speaker 1: form of self love or self maintenance as well as

679
00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:45,719
Speaker 1: saying time is up here doesn't mean my time is

680
00:41:45,800 --> 00:41:49,760
Speaker 1: up here. But like you were saying, this chapter is over,

681
00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:54,839
Speaker 1: and that's very difficult for many men, especially like when

682
00:41:54,880 --> 00:41:59,279
Speaker 1: you've lived. If the chapter was maybe eighty pages in

683
00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:02,080
Speaker 1: the book as a hunt your pages that you know, if

684
00:42:02,120 --> 00:42:06,200
Speaker 1: eighty pages was one chapter, you feel and now you've

685
00:42:06,200 --> 00:42:10,840
Speaker 1: got to close all of this to transition. That was

686
00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:13,440
Speaker 1: difficult for me to hear from my doctor, but at

687
00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:20,319
Speaker 1: the same time loving myself enough to say I was

688
00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:25,879
Speaker 1: faithful and I trust you that where I'm going will

689
00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:29,600
Speaker 1: be better, you know, And that's where I'm at now.

690
00:42:29,640 --> 00:42:33,920
Speaker 1: It's I say, self love is hard for me to

691
00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:36,359
Speaker 1: just say. But self maintenance we kind of gather because

692
00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:40,400
Speaker 1: we used to maintaining. But self love is really important

693
00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:44,720
Speaker 1: because we are fearfully and wonderfully made and in his eyes,

694
00:42:45,160 --> 00:42:49,640
Speaker 1: we're extremely valuable. And you're right, we can allow the trauma,

695
00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:53,239
Speaker 1: the experiences to define our worth when those are just

696
00:42:53,360 --> 00:42:57,040
Speaker 1: experiences and they were meant to shape you, not become

697
00:42:57,160 --> 00:42:59,880
Speaker 1: your story per se like this, like people will say

698
00:42:59,880 --> 00:43:02,239
Speaker 1: that cable with elements your life story, and I was like,

699
00:43:02,320 --> 00:43:05,160
Speaker 1: I'm not dead yet. Can you say that I could

700
00:43:05,160 --> 00:43:08,400
Speaker 1: do something in three years that you were saying, Wow,

701
00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:09,800
Speaker 1: that's his life story.

702
00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:14,040
Speaker 2: So yeah, even with by the way, we have a

703
00:43:14,080 --> 00:43:17,120
Speaker 2: whole lot in common. I had a laminactivey between L

704
00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:20,560
Speaker 2: four and L five, so I went through the side

705
00:43:20,640 --> 00:43:23,000
Speaker 2: because I had all the pains of that. I went

706
00:43:23,040 --> 00:43:29,080
Speaker 2: through the surgery, the slow recovery. I had to preach

707
00:43:29,120 --> 00:43:31,959
Speaker 2: in a chair, I couldn't stand up, and I wasn't

708
00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:34,920
Speaker 2: sure that I would ever be the same again. I

709
00:43:34,960 --> 00:43:38,520
Speaker 2: had some problems with my vocal cords, lost my whole

710
00:43:38,600 --> 00:43:40,799
Speaker 2: upper range, and wasn't sure I would be able to

711
00:43:40,880 --> 00:43:46,799
Speaker 2: talk again. And anytime something threatens the things that we

712
00:43:46,920 --> 00:43:51,480
Speaker 2: think that we're good at, if we're not careful, we

713
00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:56,120
Speaker 2: decide we're no good because we only think we're good

714
00:43:56,160 --> 00:43:59,920
Speaker 2: as long as we are doing, rather than being yes, sir, Okay,

715
00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:02,440
Speaker 2: my wife will I'll be away from home or on

716
00:44:02,520 --> 00:44:04,759
Speaker 2: the road to traveling somewhere, and she said, I means

717
00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:06,520
Speaker 2: she maybe I can't wait for you to get home.

718
00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:09,759
Speaker 2: And I rush home, thinking it's gonna be one thing,

719
00:44:10,400 --> 00:44:14,680
Speaker 2: and you know, as you just read the book, you know,

720
00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:19,319
Speaker 2: over the corner, and it's got on my nerves. I thought,

721
00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:24,120
Speaker 2: she just wants me to be here. And one day

722
00:44:24,160 --> 00:44:28,080
Speaker 2: I asked myself, what's wrong with that? Yes, sir, performance

723
00:44:28,920 --> 00:44:34,319
Speaker 2: is not greater than presence. Yes, so if you if

724
00:44:34,320 --> 00:44:36,560
Speaker 2: you're back, never will do what it used to do.

725
00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:40,520
Speaker 2: That doesn't make you any less a man. And I

726
00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:43,319
Speaker 2: think in the part in the process of aging, we

727
00:44:43,440 --> 00:44:48,640
Speaker 2: have to redefine what living is and find the beauty

728
00:44:48,680 --> 00:44:53,040
Speaker 2: of the season that you're in, rather than glorifying the

729
00:44:53,080 --> 00:45:01,280
Speaker 2: springs and hating autumn, because the leaves all fall for everybody,

730
00:45:01,840 --> 00:45:05,240
Speaker 2: evolved for everybody, but there's nobody helping us to bridge

731
00:45:05,320 --> 00:45:11,200
Speaker 2: that got between then and now. And there's something in

732
00:45:11,239 --> 00:45:15,279
Speaker 2: the now that is just as spectacular as everything in

733
00:45:15,320 --> 00:45:19,440
Speaker 2: the past was, if you will take time to see it.

734
00:45:20,840 --> 00:45:26,759
Speaker 2: One time, while I was meditating, it came to me

735
00:45:26,920 --> 00:45:32,920
Speaker 2: that your definition of happy is too small. That stayed

736
00:45:32,920 --> 00:45:35,840
Speaker 2: with me for months. Your definition of happy is too small.

737
00:45:36,280 --> 00:45:39,520
Speaker 2: So if you define yourself as happy through martial arts

738
00:45:40,200 --> 00:45:43,600
Speaker 2: and serving people and speaking and doing things like that,

739
00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:49,879
Speaker 2: and that's it, you close up the possibilities of all

740
00:45:49,880 --> 00:45:52,200
Speaker 2: the other things that might be in the next chapter

741
00:45:52,520 --> 00:45:57,800
Speaker 2: waiting on you, and you don't fully maximize the chapter

742
00:45:57,920 --> 00:46:02,720
Speaker 2: that you're in because you're still grieving over the chapter

743
00:46:02,840 --> 00:46:10,720
Speaker 2: that you passed. And for me, I sense a certain

744
00:46:10,840 --> 00:46:19,800
Speaker 2: grief that once again, whether it's because of the death

745
00:46:19,840 --> 00:46:23,640
Speaker 2: of your brother or whether it's because of the back

746
00:46:23,760 --> 00:46:29,920
Speaker 2: going out once again, you're not getting what you need

747
00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:35,200
Speaker 2: as a person, and nobody else can give you that. Yes,

748
00:46:35,960 --> 00:46:38,759
Speaker 2: you have to give yourself that. That was a great

749
00:46:38,840 --> 00:46:41,960
Speaker 2: lesson for me. One you have to give yourself that,

750
00:46:43,200 --> 00:46:46,120
Speaker 2: and two you have to be willing to discover other

751
00:46:46,360 --> 00:46:51,279
Speaker 2: forms of greatness and pleasure that fit the season you're in. Yes,

752
00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:54,799
Speaker 2: the leaves have all fallen off the tree, there are

753
00:46:54,800 --> 00:46:58,280
Speaker 2: no nests and there are any birds in the fall,

754
00:46:58,520 --> 00:47:01,560
Speaker 2: and the weather has changed and you need a sweater.

755
00:47:03,120 --> 00:47:08,800
Speaker 2: But wow, that's kind of nice too. That's kind of

756
00:47:08,880 --> 00:47:13,799
Speaker 2: nice too. So as we age, we have to get

757
00:47:13,800 --> 00:47:19,799
Speaker 2: to the point that we embrace the gray. It's why

758
00:47:19,840 --> 00:47:21,799
Speaker 2: I wear my gray. I see you were yours too.

759
00:47:21,880 --> 00:47:25,520
Speaker 2: I earned this gray, and I'm not gonna paint it.

760
00:47:25,600 --> 00:47:29,480
Speaker 2: I'm gonna wear this gray because every strand of it

761
00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:32,040
Speaker 2: says something about something I went through to get there.

762
00:47:33,280 --> 00:47:35,440
Speaker 2: But I have to brush it. I have to love it,

763
00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:37,080
Speaker 2: I have to like it. I have to take care

764
00:47:37,120 --> 00:47:42,719
Speaker 2: of it. And that's just symbolic of how you have

765
00:47:42,840 --> 00:47:46,280
Speaker 2: to take care of who you are now rather than grieve.

766
00:47:47,160 --> 00:47:52,399
Speaker 2: I can't do martial arts anymore. I'm living. To serve

767
00:47:52,520 --> 00:47:59,040
Speaker 2: other people is a subtle way of saying my only

768
00:47:59,080 --> 00:48:02,040
Speaker 2: purpose is then yeah, and not me.

769
00:48:03,680 --> 00:48:09,080
Speaker 1: That's really good. As you're speaking, I'm thinking of so much.

770
00:48:09,160 --> 00:48:12,759
Speaker 1: Even when I got the diagnosis and I called my assistant, Chris,

771
00:48:12,840 --> 00:48:17,600
Speaker 1: who leaves the cave now, I cried and I told him,

772
00:48:17,600 --> 00:48:21,880
Speaker 1: I said, you got it, you know, and I needed

773
00:48:21,880 --> 00:48:26,000
Speaker 1: this to get out your way. You know, It's like

774
00:48:26,080 --> 00:48:30,359
Speaker 1: with Moses and Joshua. Moses was still living. They say

775
00:48:30,360 --> 00:48:34,640
Speaker 1: he was a man full of vigor, then boom, could

776
00:48:34,640 --> 00:48:36,800
Speaker 1: you imagine if he was still living in half of Israel?

777
00:48:36,800 --> 00:48:39,600
Speaker 1: Probably would have stayed on the other side with Moses.

778
00:48:39,840 --> 00:48:43,160
Speaker 1: And so the secession plan you're speaking of, like what's next,

779
00:48:43,480 --> 00:48:47,200
Speaker 1: that needs to be established, and I believe that's just

780
00:48:47,239 --> 00:48:51,080
Speaker 1: where I'm at now, like what's next? And I poured

781
00:48:51,080 --> 00:48:54,600
Speaker 1: so much into Chris. He has it, and I'm like son,

782
00:48:54,640 --> 00:48:56,920
Speaker 1: I told him, I say, mistakes are great teachers. That's

783
00:48:56,960 --> 00:49:00,840
Speaker 1: how I built this entire building through mistakes, right. And

784
00:49:00,880 --> 00:49:04,840
Speaker 1: then to your point about just focusing on me, it

785
00:49:04,920 --> 00:49:07,359
Speaker 1: brought back the memory of me losing my best friend

786
00:49:07,440 --> 00:49:11,000
Speaker 1: Daryl to a heart attack. That was my weightlifting partner.

787
00:49:11,520 --> 00:49:13,759
Speaker 1: When I wanted to get big, I went to the gym.

788
00:49:13,880 --> 00:49:15,279
Speaker 1: I said well, this is what I want to look like.

789
00:49:15,440 --> 00:49:20,320
Speaker 1: I'm working out with dude fifteen years, no argument, sweeping

790
00:49:20,400 --> 00:49:24,480
Speaker 1: up dust on a job with us, passes out, dropped in.

791
00:49:26,880 --> 00:49:29,719
Speaker 1: I lost the love for working out because I saw, like, man,

792
00:49:29,719 --> 00:49:32,400
Speaker 1: I'm in. I used to be like two fifties strong

793
00:49:32,640 --> 00:49:35,839
Speaker 1: rep three fifteen on the bench. This is all vain.

794
00:49:36,040 --> 00:49:38,399
Speaker 1: My f my friend could lift the two hundred pound

795
00:49:38,480 --> 00:49:41,399
Speaker 1: dumbbells and pressed. I mean, like, what is it for?

796
00:49:42,800 --> 00:49:46,280
Speaker 1: But God, it's like no, no, no, that was a tragedy.

797
00:49:46,480 --> 00:49:49,600
Speaker 1: But you don't live your life there, Jason, right, And

798
00:49:49,680 --> 00:49:52,600
Speaker 1: so I'm working my way back there as well, you know,

799
00:49:52,640 --> 00:49:55,239
Speaker 1: And you're right when you start, when you start collecting

800
00:49:56,400 --> 00:49:59,640
Speaker 1: these losses like badges of honor, right, that's when it

801
00:49:59,640 --> 00:50:00,839
Speaker 1: becomes a problem.

802
00:50:01,239 --> 00:50:06,160
Speaker 2: And the other thing, too, is when we grew up

803
00:50:06,280 --> 00:50:11,960
Speaker 2: with absentee father and daddy issues, we didn't have older

804
00:50:12,000 --> 00:50:18,120
Speaker 2: age modeled for us correctly. So sometimes we get older

805
00:50:18,120 --> 00:50:21,800
Speaker 2: but we don't really know how to do it. And

806
00:50:22,320 --> 00:50:24,480
Speaker 2: we yearned to be who we were because we knew

807
00:50:24,520 --> 00:50:27,080
Speaker 2: how to do that. And there were several things that

808
00:50:27,120 --> 00:50:29,799
Speaker 2: we did well that we were very proud of, and

809
00:50:29,840 --> 00:50:32,400
Speaker 2: those things are being taken away from us with age,

810
00:50:33,280 --> 00:50:37,160
Speaker 2: and nobody has modeled for us. You don't know how

811
00:50:37,160 --> 00:50:42,880
Speaker 2: to fother you, and they're still in abandonment there that

812
00:50:43,040 --> 00:50:49,640
Speaker 2: you fill up with serving other people. And what I

813
00:50:49,680 --> 00:50:55,080
Speaker 2: am saying to you is there's a whole, big, beautiful

814
00:50:55,239 --> 00:51:03,080
Speaker 2: world on the other side of growing older. Yes, I

815
00:51:03,120 --> 00:51:08,280
Speaker 2: mean it's a magnificent world that you'll miss having an

816
00:51:08,280 --> 00:51:14,120
Speaker 2: inner tempered pantrum about not being as young as you were.

817
00:51:16,840 --> 00:51:21,200
Speaker 2: You will miss being proud of your brain because you're

818
00:51:21,239 --> 00:51:25,040
Speaker 2: not able to lift your body weight anymore. You'll miss

819
00:51:25,120 --> 00:51:32,040
Speaker 2: being amazing moments that anybody would just go crazy about.

820
00:51:32,800 --> 00:51:39,200
Speaker 2: You trivialize them. So you are much more articulate about

821
00:51:39,239 --> 00:51:41,879
Speaker 2: what went wrong than you are about what went right.

822
00:51:42,880 --> 00:51:47,000
Speaker 2: But says to me, you don't drink from the waters

823
00:51:47,560 --> 00:51:51,160
Speaker 2: of what went right like you drink from the waters

824
00:51:51,239 --> 00:51:54,920
Speaker 2: or what went wrong. And I think you have to

825
00:51:54,920 --> 00:51:59,560
Speaker 2: be intentional about that. Yes, I had to be intentional

826
00:51:59,600 --> 00:52:03,000
Speaker 2: about it. I'll be transparent. I had to be intentional

827
00:52:03,200 --> 00:52:07,680
Speaker 2: about finding the joy of being sixty eight versus twenty eight.

828
00:52:09,400 --> 00:52:12,160
Speaker 2: I had to be intentional about how I talked to

829
00:52:12,200 --> 00:52:18,000
Speaker 2: myself about me when nobody's around. Okay, myself talked. Yes,

830
00:52:18,440 --> 00:52:22,080
Speaker 2: I found out that I was feeding myself poison and

831
00:52:22,200 --> 00:52:26,279
Speaker 2: wondering why I couldn't breathe. And anytime you talk to

832
00:52:26,320 --> 00:52:30,560
Speaker 2: yourself in a way that almost belittles where you are

833
00:52:30,600 --> 00:52:34,440
Speaker 2: because you long for where you've been, and you're grieving, grieving, grieving.

834
00:52:34,480 --> 00:52:38,839
Speaker 2: Your life is full of grief. Your best friend died,

835
00:52:38,920 --> 00:52:41,680
Speaker 2: your brother died. You had all these losses in your life.

836
00:52:41,719 --> 00:52:45,200
Speaker 2: Your mother was absent, your father was gone. You've had

837
00:52:45,239 --> 00:52:51,400
Speaker 2: a lot. You've got a master's degree in losing stuff,

838
00:52:52,920 --> 00:52:57,800
Speaker 2: and so you have given yourself to everybody else because

839
00:52:57,840 --> 00:52:59,920
Speaker 2: you've not had a moment in your life that you

840
00:53:00,120 --> 00:53:05,000
Speaker 2: talk much about where you were on the receiving end

841
00:53:05,040 --> 00:53:08,400
Speaker 2: and you were important, and you were you were the

842
00:53:08,440 --> 00:53:11,719
Speaker 2: star of the moment, and you you you were celebrated.

843
00:53:12,120 --> 00:53:16,520
Speaker 2: And when you do have those moments, you don't receive them. Well,

844
00:53:16,560 --> 00:53:20,200
Speaker 2: you skip over them all, you know. Uh, it was

845
00:53:20,360 --> 00:53:23,239
Speaker 2: just Lawrence Fisher and it was just I was just

846
00:53:23,320 --> 00:53:28,800
Speaker 2: hit the right eyes, you know, Yeah, almost running away

847
00:53:28,960 --> 00:53:38,480
Speaker 2: from from the joy of reflection on what you have accomplished. Yeah,

848
00:53:38,560 --> 00:53:40,279
Speaker 2: does it resonate with you?

849
00:53:40,400 --> 00:53:43,279
Speaker 1: Does it resonate you? To talk to my wife? Boy,

850
00:53:43,280 --> 00:53:48,160
Speaker 1: I got it here. Yes, it resonates. That's why right

851
00:53:48,520 --> 00:53:50,719
Speaker 1: the way I do because I know it and you're

852
00:53:50,800 --> 00:53:54,480
Speaker 1: right about the pain. But the other side is the joy.

853
00:53:54,719 --> 00:53:57,560
Speaker 1: And I was just with my therapist and he says,

854
00:53:57,600 --> 00:54:03,279
Speaker 1: you know what thinkless hobby do you have? And I

855
00:54:03,320 --> 00:54:05,440
Speaker 1: started naming it. Used to be martial ros, used to

856
00:54:05,520 --> 00:54:09,760
Speaker 1: be this Marshals turned into the cave of Adellum music

857
00:54:09,800 --> 00:54:13,680
Speaker 1: turned into Christian hip hop ministry. The guitar. I wanted

858
00:54:13,719 --> 00:54:15,360
Speaker 1: to be able to play in the praise and worship,

859
00:54:15,360 --> 00:54:18,560
Speaker 1: and I said, wait a minute, everything that I do

860
00:54:18,680 --> 00:54:24,839
Speaker 1: turns into a mission. And that's that's a problem. Why

861
00:54:24,840 --> 00:54:29,000
Speaker 1: am I doing that? Like I can perform for God

862
00:54:29,280 --> 00:54:32,440
Speaker 1: almost Because you're right that Father won a lot of

863
00:54:32,480 --> 00:54:35,920
Speaker 1: us look at God the same way. You know he's

864
00:54:35,960 --> 00:54:39,719
Speaker 1: not He's not nowhere near like earthly Father's period. And

865
00:54:39,800 --> 00:54:43,160
Speaker 1: so no, yeah, yes it resonates. I mean when my

866
00:54:43,200 --> 00:54:45,000
Speaker 1: wife watched this, she gonna say.

867
00:54:46,280 --> 00:54:46,839
Speaker 2: Thank you.

868
00:54:46,960 --> 00:54:49,360
Speaker 1: I'm serious, because you know we're here from my wives

869
00:54:49,400 --> 00:54:51,839
Speaker 1: and I'm very open with her. She you know, I

870
00:54:51,840 --> 00:54:55,480
Speaker 1: have no fear of telling her even when I'm nervous

871
00:54:55,560 --> 00:54:59,440
Speaker 1: or anything. We have that type of relationship. But I know,

872
00:55:00,040 --> 00:55:05,120
Speaker 1: deep inside God is like, there's so much more if

873
00:55:05,160 --> 00:55:07,319
Speaker 1: you just take another step. And that's why I tell

874
00:55:07,360 --> 00:55:11,920
Speaker 1: men who beat themselves up about not being this perfect man.

875
00:55:12,000 --> 00:55:14,359
Speaker 1: I'm like, brother, there is no master level in man

876
00:55:14,560 --> 00:55:16,840
Speaker 1: that as you said, I got to learn how to

877
00:55:16,880 --> 00:55:20,759
Speaker 1: be an older man and hopefully one day grandfather and

878
00:55:20,880 --> 00:55:24,920
Speaker 1: accepting it and embracing just to change. And so I

879
00:55:24,960 --> 00:55:29,279
Speaker 1: really appreciate you for sharing this because when I say,

880
00:55:29,280 --> 00:55:32,879
Speaker 1: this is something he's been telling me this entire year,

881
00:55:34,320 --> 00:55:38,080
Speaker 1: like I love you, You're good enough, got you right,

882
00:55:39,239 --> 00:55:42,760
Speaker 1: and to celebrate like another one of my books passed

883
00:55:42,800 --> 00:55:44,680
Speaker 1: over one hundred thousand sales, and you know in the

884
00:55:44,840 --> 00:55:49,960
Speaker 1: book industry, average books are like four hundred copies. I made.

885
00:55:51,000 --> 00:55:53,760
Speaker 1: I had the plaques made and took it to the

886
00:55:53,760 --> 00:55:56,719
Speaker 1: frame shop for them to frame up so I can

887
00:55:56,760 --> 00:55:59,320
Speaker 1: put it on my wall to say, this is something

888
00:55:59,440 --> 00:56:03,200
Speaker 1: I was able to accomplished, right, And so I am

889
00:56:03,719 --> 00:56:08,200
Speaker 1: although I'm in that direction walking. I appreciate you because

890
00:56:08,239 --> 00:56:11,400
Speaker 1: now it's inspire me to run.

891
00:56:11,680 --> 00:56:15,040
Speaker 4: Right, And so I thank you for that. Yeah, because

892
00:56:15,080 --> 00:56:19,400
Speaker 4: if you bring the fullness of your brain from the

893
00:56:19,480 --> 00:56:24,560
Speaker 4: times I've heard you speak into the presence of who

894
00:56:24,600 --> 00:56:30,000
Speaker 4: you are now, it's going to be absolutely amazing. And

895
00:56:30,160 --> 00:56:34,560
Speaker 4: you bring the fullness of your brain to us. You

896
00:56:34,760 --> 00:56:39,759
Speaker 4: just don't bring it to you. You just don't bring

897
00:56:39,800 --> 00:56:45,560
Speaker 4: it to you, and you don't seem to feel like

898
00:56:45,680 --> 00:56:48,800
Speaker 4: you deserve it. And so you keep finding other people

899
00:56:49,440 --> 00:56:55,080
Speaker 4: to give the love too, and you travel across the

900
00:56:55,120 --> 00:56:59,439
Speaker 4: country to give yourself to them, but sit at home

901
00:56:59,480 --> 00:57:04,200
Speaker 4: and won't get yourself to you. And and I understand

902
00:57:04,239 --> 00:57:07,439
Speaker 4: the symptoms because I've been through it. Yes, okay, I've

903
00:57:07,440 --> 00:57:09,759
Speaker 4: been through it. I've been through taking care of my mother.

904
00:57:09,840 --> 00:57:12,160
Speaker 4: We have a whole lot of common. You know, my

905
00:57:12,239 --> 00:57:15,920
Speaker 4: mother had Alzheimer's. I brush home and feed her and

906
00:57:15,960 --> 00:57:18,960
Speaker 4: sit up and feed her. And I'm very proud that

907
00:57:19,040 --> 00:57:22,080
Speaker 4: I got to do that, Yes, because I got to

908
00:57:22,120 --> 00:57:24,240
Speaker 4: show her that if the shoe were on the other foot,

909
00:57:24,800 --> 00:57:26,640
Speaker 4: I would do for her what she did for me.

910
00:57:27,800 --> 00:57:30,480
Speaker 4: And to come around full circle and have the privilege

911
00:57:31,000 --> 00:57:35,640
Speaker 4: of proving to her that I would do every little

912
00:57:35,880 --> 00:57:38,480
Speaker 4: dirty thing that she did. Watched me, babe me, sit

913
00:57:38,600 --> 00:57:41,080
Speaker 4: me up, clean me up. You know that that I'm

914
00:57:41,120 --> 00:57:43,360
Speaker 4: not too good to do any of that because she

915
00:57:43,560 --> 00:57:45,480
Speaker 4: gave me that, and I got to give it back

916
00:57:45,520 --> 00:57:49,600
Speaker 4: to her. Yes, that that that cre that finished the circle,

917
00:57:50,120 --> 00:57:52,920
Speaker 4: that that that did something for me, that that I

918
00:57:53,080 --> 00:57:58,160
Speaker 4: was proud of, and that wasn't but it also my

919
00:57:58,240 --> 00:58:01,400
Speaker 4: greatest lessons were taught people who were dying. I was

920
00:58:01,480 --> 00:58:05,960
Speaker 4: raised by dying father. My father had kidney failure, and

921
00:58:06,040 --> 00:58:08,200
Speaker 4: I could ride a I could run a kidney machine

922
00:58:08,240 --> 00:58:12,240
Speaker 4: and couldn't ride a bicycle, so I know about taking

923
00:58:12,240 --> 00:58:15,200
Speaker 4: care of people. I took care of him till he died.

924
00:58:15,240 --> 00:58:17,600
Speaker 4: My mother died, and my arms lived in my house.

925
00:58:18,640 --> 00:58:20,760
Speaker 4: So much filled my house that after she died, I

926
00:58:20,880 --> 00:58:24,760
Speaker 4: moved because I could still see her all over the house.

927
00:58:28,440 --> 00:58:32,560
Speaker 4: I did everything I could, so I understand what you've seen,

928
00:58:33,200 --> 00:58:38,840
Speaker 4: because Alzheimer's takes him away in pieces. You lose him

929
00:58:38,920 --> 00:58:42,960
Speaker 4: in layers, like peeling back an onion, till they can't

930
00:58:43,000 --> 00:58:51,160
Speaker 4: remember anything except their childhood or fragments of moments. And

931
00:58:50,520 --> 00:58:57,320
Speaker 4: it is the slowest agonizing death imaginable, and you can't

932
00:58:57,320 --> 00:59:04,160
Speaker 4: stop it. When they start sundowning in the evening and

933
00:59:04,160 --> 00:59:11,520
Speaker 4: they get agitated, yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, sundowning and uh

934
00:59:11,560 --> 00:59:14,680
Speaker 4: and they start getting agitated, and how you you.

935
00:59:14,640 --> 00:59:16,880
Speaker 2: Have to say, did you see that bird over there?

936
00:59:16,920 --> 00:59:19,680
Speaker 2: And you draw their mind completely away from it. They

937
00:59:19,720 --> 00:59:22,120
Speaker 2: start looking at the bird, and you have to be

938
00:59:23,280 --> 00:59:25,000
Speaker 2: you have to do all of that. But when you

939
00:59:25,040 --> 00:59:26,720
Speaker 2: get them in the bed and you go back to

940
00:59:26,840 --> 00:59:31,720
Speaker 2: your bed, you say, that's all this left of my mama.

941
00:59:35,400 --> 00:59:41,880
Speaker 2: So you had repetition of losing and being strong enough

942
00:59:41,920 --> 00:59:46,640
Speaker 2: to persevere and be there for everybody else, but you

943
00:59:46,800 --> 00:59:47,440
Speaker 2: never got.

944
00:59:47,240 --> 00:59:49,120
Speaker 1: To spoil you.

945
00:59:49,960 --> 00:59:52,280
Speaker 2: And so in the second half of your life, I'm

946
00:59:52,320 --> 00:59:57,480
Speaker 2: suggesting one that getting to spoil you will help you,

947
00:59:57,800 --> 01:00:00,200
Speaker 2: and nobody can do it for you, but you yes,

948
01:00:00,560 --> 01:00:03,000
Speaker 2: and it will tear up your marriage. Expecting to get

949
01:00:03,040 --> 01:00:05,760
Speaker 2: from your wife what you should have got from your mother,

950
01:00:05,840 --> 01:00:07,600
Speaker 2: what you should have got from your father, what you

951
01:00:07,600 --> 01:00:09,920
Speaker 2: should have got from your friend, what you should have

952
01:00:09,920 --> 01:00:12,440
Speaker 2: got from everybody. That's too much to put on one person.

953
01:00:13,000 --> 01:00:16,200
Speaker 1: They can't do it. It's unfair.

954
01:00:16,360 --> 01:00:18,560
Speaker 2: So you have to do the hard work of finding

955
01:00:18,600 --> 01:00:22,080
Speaker 2: out what would make me happy and doing it, and

956
01:00:22,160 --> 01:00:25,120
Speaker 2: then doing it. You're making the time to do it,

957
01:00:25,200 --> 01:00:28,760
Speaker 2: scheduling it, even when it means saying no to somebody

958
01:00:28,840 --> 01:00:34,840
Speaker 2: who needs you, invalidates the fact that that you matter. Yes,

959
01:00:35,520 --> 01:00:36,360
Speaker 2: does that make sense?

960
01:00:36,640 --> 01:00:37,560
Speaker 1: Make a lot of sense.

961
01:00:38,040 --> 01:00:41,840
Speaker 2: So I think when you start thinking about next chapter,

962
01:00:45,080 --> 01:00:47,520
Speaker 2: I would love to look at the canvas of your

963
01:00:47,520 --> 01:00:53,040
Speaker 2: life and show you how much you're missing, like I

964
01:00:53,120 --> 01:00:56,080
Speaker 2: whispered in your ear down, how much you're missing of

965
01:00:56,200 --> 01:00:59,440
Speaker 2: your life, how much you're not dignifying with the importance

966
01:00:59,720 --> 01:01:04,840
Speaker 2: and the relevance that you should have, because you don't

967
01:01:04,880 --> 01:01:09,080
Speaker 2: see the beauty of the stage you're at. Now. You

968
01:01:09,120 --> 01:01:14,800
Speaker 2: went viral. You you got major networks picking up your material,

969
01:01:15,040 --> 01:01:19,360
Speaker 2: doing your stuff, people seeking out your help on every level,

970
01:01:19,800 --> 01:01:24,600
Speaker 2: want to do documentaries and all of that. And I

971
01:01:24,600 --> 01:01:27,320
Speaker 2: don't think you let that soak in because you never

972
01:01:27,440 --> 01:01:30,760
Speaker 2: had it before. Now you get to let that soak in.

973
01:01:34,440 --> 01:01:40,240
Speaker 1: I had nothing to say. I'm receiving it. It's yeah,

974
01:01:40,280 --> 01:01:42,640
Speaker 1: it seemed like you and Nicole was my wife, got

975
01:01:42,680 --> 01:01:50,240
Speaker 1: on the phone, I and my children, you know, I

976
01:01:50,320 --> 01:01:56,000
Speaker 1: you know, I'm I'm excited, you know, like man if

977
01:01:56,000 --> 01:02:01,080
Speaker 1: I when I get to that point in the process

978
01:02:02,080 --> 01:02:07,000
Speaker 1: not losing myself, in the process of helping others, and

979
01:02:07,040 --> 01:02:10,600
Speaker 1: they could see, Wow, Okay, thank you for helping me

980
01:02:10,640 --> 01:02:14,960
Speaker 1: break free from emotional incarceration. But I also want so

981
01:02:15,040 --> 01:02:15,920
Speaker 1: many joy too.

982
01:02:16,840 --> 01:02:20,680
Speaker 2: Chapter number five forgiving our fathers.

983
01:02:23,600 --> 01:02:26,000
Speaker 1: You know the create, don't you? Yes, Yes, I was

984
01:02:26,040 --> 01:02:28,520
Speaker 1: on the show, and he asked me, you know, what

985
01:02:28,600 --> 01:02:31,840
Speaker 1: do you have? What is your signe? You know that

986
01:02:31,920 --> 01:02:35,240
Speaker 1: you will see that you're evolving. And I tell my

987
01:02:35,280 --> 01:02:37,800
Speaker 1: wife this too. When I can freely dance with you,

988
01:02:39,480 --> 01:02:43,600
Speaker 1: that's when I know I've really embraced the fullness of

989
01:02:43,640 --> 01:02:48,360
Speaker 1: everything that every you know, the good, the bad, and

990
01:02:48,480 --> 01:02:52,000
Speaker 1: accepting it so much that I'm liberated in a way

991
01:02:52,000 --> 01:02:54,040
Speaker 1: where it doesn't even matter if I miss a step

992
01:02:54,160 --> 01:02:58,400
Speaker 1: or whatever. I'm in this moment and embracing every aspect

993
01:02:58,480 --> 01:02:58,680
Speaker 1: of it.

994
01:02:59,320 --> 01:03:01,480
Speaker 2: I was listening that to music one day in the

995
01:03:01,560 --> 01:03:06,880
Speaker 2: shower and I found myself dancing in the shower and

996
01:03:06,920 --> 01:03:11,720
Speaker 2: I don't think I've ever done that before. And I thought,

997
01:03:12,400 --> 01:03:17,040
Speaker 2: this is what happy feels like. This is what service

998
01:03:17,080 --> 01:03:20,760
Speaker 2: feels like. This is what a mission feels like. Not

999
01:03:20,920 --> 01:03:23,520
Speaker 2: this is what a message feels like. This is what

1000
01:03:24,240 --> 01:03:27,160
Speaker 2: waiting to be happy with just you.

1001
01:03:27,560 --> 01:03:35,080
Speaker 1: Yes, I get that feeling bishop in the mornings, getting

1002
01:03:35,080 --> 01:03:39,560
Speaker 1: a vegan muffin and some tear or some coffee and

1003
01:03:39,600 --> 01:03:43,760
Speaker 1: you have that window where it's just serene and it's

1004
01:03:43,760 --> 01:03:47,640
Speaker 1: like no one's calling me, no nothing to do, and

1005
01:03:48,520 --> 01:03:53,440
Speaker 1: I can just chill here for a moment. I'm thankful

1006
01:03:53,560 --> 01:03:56,360
Speaker 1: I get to experience that every day. But to your point,

1007
01:03:56,680 --> 01:04:00,640
Speaker 1: there's so many more moments of that if I just

1008
01:04:00,720 --> 01:04:02,760
Speaker 1: embrace the blessings in the.

1009
01:04:02,720 --> 01:04:06,400
Speaker 2: Moment, right to have the courage to dream again.

1010
01:04:07,960 --> 01:04:08,080
Speaker 1: Uh.

1011
01:04:08,240 --> 01:04:10,959
Speaker 2: Sometimes when you lost a lot of things, you don't

1012
01:04:11,000 --> 01:04:13,920
Speaker 2: birth anything else because you figured you might lose it.

1013
01:04:16,600 --> 01:04:20,360
Speaker 2: And uh, it's the same thing your mother went through. Yes,

1014
01:04:22,840 --> 01:04:29,880
Speaker 2: we relive our parents trauma. M So you neglect your

1015
01:04:29,920 --> 01:04:33,480
Speaker 2: baby because you don't want to throw your heart at

1016
01:04:33,480 --> 01:04:34,680
Speaker 2: it because it might death.

1017
01:04:37,200 --> 01:04:40,280
Speaker 1: Even my dad to some extent his heartache and pain.

1018
01:04:41,160 --> 01:04:43,240
Speaker 1: It took for him to be bed ridden with Parkinson's

1019
01:04:43,320 --> 01:04:46,880
Speaker 1: disease for me to hear that he loved me. But

1020
01:04:47,000 --> 01:04:47,600
Speaker 1: I heard it.

1021
01:04:48,120 --> 01:04:50,240
Speaker 2: You know what was that like when you heard?

1022
01:04:50,920 --> 01:04:51,160
Speaker 4: Man?

1023
01:04:51,240 --> 01:04:53,880
Speaker 1: I so he was called to be a pastor and

1024
01:04:53,920 --> 01:04:56,000
Speaker 1: he was. He ran from its cause he told God,

1025
01:04:56,000 --> 01:04:57,960
Speaker 1: you got the wrong guy and.

1026
01:05:00,080 --> 01:05:00,480
Speaker 2: Done work.

1027
01:05:02,080 --> 01:05:06,680
Speaker 1: And so I had, in that moment the Holy Spirit

1028
01:05:06,800 --> 01:05:09,200
Speaker 1: say tell your father, thank you for being the dad

1029
01:05:09,240 --> 01:05:12,800
Speaker 1: I needed. I'm like, what are you talking about? You

1030
01:05:12,840 --> 01:05:15,440
Speaker 1: know I needed a different dad. But what he was saying, no,

1031
01:05:15,640 --> 01:05:18,120
Speaker 1: he was what you needed to get you to where

1032
01:05:18,120 --> 01:05:22,600
Speaker 1: you are. So I told him that and pray. We

1033
01:05:22,680 --> 01:05:25,680
Speaker 1: prayed together and as I was walking out, I heard

1034
01:05:25,720 --> 01:05:30,360
Speaker 1: heavy breathing. I turned around. He was crying. That's the

1035
01:05:30,440 --> 01:05:33,520
Speaker 1: first time I ever seen my father was no joke,

1036
01:05:33,680 --> 01:05:38,360
Speaker 1: like serious man, like no one ever tested my dad.

1037
01:05:39,440 --> 01:05:41,480
Speaker 1: He was weeping and walk over to him. My wife

1038
01:05:41,560 --> 01:05:45,080
Speaker 1: is tears. I say, what's going on? Dad? He was like,

1039
01:05:46,280 --> 01:05:51,000
Speaker 1: I love you, son. So to hear that at thirty

1040
01:05:51,040 --> 01:05:58,440
Speaker 1: seven years old, it frees so much, and like you're saying,

1041
01:05:58,480 --> 01:06:01,680
Speaker 1: you know, I had to ask he publicly apologized to him,

1042
01:06:01,720 --> 01:06:05,360
Speaker 1: because you know we'll be so hard on our father's

1043
01:06:06,840 --> 01:06:10,120
Speaker 1: And I said, Dad, you know you did the best

1044
01:06:10,160 --> 01:06:12,800
Speaker 1: you could for me. And in those moments, you know,

1045
01:06:13,000 --> 01:06:14,800
Speaker 1: like you say, if you keep looking at the bad,

1046
01:06:15,240 --> 01:06:18,000
Speaker 1: you missed the good that a person done. And I

1047
01:06:18,040 --> 01:06:20,120
Speaker 1: went on a retreat one day to work on his

1048
01:06:20,160 --> 01:06:24,400
Speaker 1: father womb and I remember the words, the times he

1049
01:06:24,560 --> 01:06:26,880
Speaker 1: was and yeah, he wasn't there a lot. But when

1050
01:06:26,880 --> 01:06:29,120
Speaker 1: he did apologize, he didn't know how to say how

1051
01:06:29,160 --> 01:06:31,640
Speaker 1: we do today? It was through a game with ten

1052
01:06:31,720 --> 01:06:36,720
Speaker 1: dollars a son. He loved me, but he verbalized it

1053
01:06:36,720 --> 01:06:40,320
Speaker 1: when I was thirty seven, and just to understand it.

1054
01:06:40,480 --> 01:06:43,440
Speaker 1: When I finally knew his cause and effect. I was

1055
01:06:43,480 --> 01:06:48,800
Speaker 1: able to forgive more and more, and so I know,

1056
01:06:48,920 --> 01:06:53,480
Speaker 1: as men, once we can move past the past. Right,

1057
01:06:54,080 --> 01:06:56,400
Speaker 1: Like I said, time travel will stay there. I mean,

1058
01:06:57,080 --> 01:07:00,600
Speaker 1: trauma will stay there. We keep it there. It only

1059
01:07:00,600 --> 01:07:02,160
Speaker 1: can come to the present if we allow it. The

1060
01:07:02,200 --> 01:07:05,360
Speaker 1: time travel right, right. And that's the hardest thing because

1061
01:07:05,360 --> 01:07:08,680
Speaker 1: like you're saying, if I see something else that's good coming,

1062
01:07:09,280 --> 01:07:12,480
Speaker 1: I was hurt by this, so I'm not really gonna

1063
01:07:13,040 --> 01:07:16,600
Speaker 1: be rejoiced for in this moment. That holy emotion in

1064
01:07:16,640 --> 01:07:18,919
Speaker 1: that moment could have sparked some other ideas to even

1065
01:07:18,960 --> 01:07:22,200
Speaker 1: make it become a reality. So I thank you for

1066
01:07:22,880 --> 01:07:25,760
Speaker 1: following the Holy Spirit for speaking because everything you said

1067
01:07:25,880 --> 01:07:29,520
Speaker 1: confirmed what he's been telling me, and you had no idea, no,

1068
01:07:31,040 --> 01:07:32,640
Speaker 1: So I thank you for that, you know. And so

1069
01:07:32,800 --> 01:07:36,920
Speaker 1: often I was on brother cam Newton show recently and

1070
01:07:36,960 --> 01:07:40,160
Speaker 1: I flew down there only for him, not promoting my

1071
01:07:40,200 --> 01:07:42,800
Speaker 1: book or anything. I just hoispirit, I need you to

1072
01:07:42,840 --> 01:07:47,640
Speaker 1: go talk to him, and you're right, it's like I

1073
01:07:47,680 --> 01:07:51,360
Speaker 1: willingly give, but what about even to myself? And so

1074
01:07:51,840 --> 01:07:55,880
Speaker 1: I thank you again because I'm finally in a different seat,

1075
01:07:57,200 --> 01:08:01,600
Speaker 1: and I appreciate you from breaking the cript right and

1076
01:08:02,360 --> 01:08:05,200
Speaker 1: pouring into me, you know, as we pour into so

1077
01:08:05,280 --> 01:08:05,960
Speaker 1: many others.

1078
01:08:06,120 --> 01:08:09,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, I understand that I do that for a living,

1079
01:08:10,120 --> 01:08:16,439
Speaker 2: and I understand the side effects of being a paramedic, yes,

1080
01:08:16,960 --> 01:08:19,759
Speaker 2: you know. And you're always waiting for the next alarm

1081
01:08:19,840 --> 01:08:22,720
Speaker 2: to go off. And you love what you do and

1082
01:08:22,760 --> 01:08:26,760
Speaker 2: you get fulfillment and enjoy out of it. But the

1083
01:08:26,880 --> 01:08:31,000
Speaker 2: years go by and all of a sudden you realize

1084
01:08:31,439 --> 01:08:36,320
Speaker 2: that you needed service too. And that's why I think

1085
01:08:37,000 --> 01:08:41,519
Speaker 2: people who are listening at this podcast right now, there

1086
01:08:41,560 --> 01:08:45,400
Speaker 2: are some that are listening at this this shocked because

1087
01:08:45,439 --> 01:08:49,120
Speaker 2: they don't have anybody to talk to like this. Who

1088
01:08:49,160 --> 01:08:52,840
Speaker 2: can you can talk about deep things, whether you know,

1089
01:08:52,960 --> 01:08:56,000
Speaker 2: we talk aman talk all the time about superficient things.

1090
01:08:55,760 --> 01:08:59,360
Speaker 2: She's cute, she's fine that my team just want to

1091
01:08:59,520 --> 01:09:02,360
Speaker 2: super Bowl. You know, we talk about stuff that really

1092
01:09:02,439 --> 01:09:06,200
Speaker 2: don't matter. But when it comes to issues of the heart,

1093
01:09:09,240 --> 01:09:13,679
Speaker 2: I found out what lays on your heart ends up

1094
01:09:14,200 --> 01:09:18,799
Speaker 2: in your heart. So it took a massive heart attack

1095
01:09:18,880 --> 01:09:22,400
Speaker 2: for me to realize that all of that that manifest

1096
01:09:22,479 --> 01:09:27,080
Speaker 2: in my heart started out on my heart. So getting

1097
01:09:27,080 --> 01:09:30,759
Speaker 2: people to the place where they can get off their

1098
01:09:31,080 --> 01:09:37,920
Speaker 2: chest the weight that accompanies the responsibility that you have

1099
01:09:38,479 --> 01:09:44,200
Speaker 2: y may prevent them from bursting a blood vessel or

1100
01:09:45,000 --> 01:09:50,400
Speaker 2: or producing some sort of malfunction that that that breaks.

1101
01:09:50,080 --> 01:09:55,000
Speaker 1: Them down a little bit, you know, uh, or anything right?

1102
01:09:55,520 --> 01:10:01,599
Speaker 2: Rage? Yeah, yeah, you know, pickure, poison, alcoholism, drug port.

1103
01:10:02,600 --> 01:10:06,040
Speaker 2: You're going to find some way to medicate the whole

1104
01:10:06,720 --> 01:10:09,800
Speaker 2: because the forgiveness is there, but the hole is still there.

1105
01:10:10,880 --> 01:10:15,720
Speaker 2: You know, there's a hole in the man's heart where

1106
01:10:15,479 --> 01:10:18,920
Speaker 2: there is no father, and we try to fill it

1107
01:10:18,960 --> 01:10:21,320
Speaker 2: with a whole lot of things. And if we forgive him,

1108
01:10:21,479 --> 01:10:24,320
Speaker 2: we forgave him, but that doesn't give us what we

1109
01:10:24,400 --> 01:10:28,120
Speaker 2: would have gotten had we had them. And we spent

1110
01:10:28,200 --> 01:10:31,599
Speaker 2: our lives giving to other people what we secretly wanted,

1111
01:10:32,320 --> 01:10:35,160
Speaker 2: but that still doesn't fill the hole in us.

1112
01:10:35,400 --> 01:10:41,280
Speaker 1: You know, what's good what you're saying, that whole even

1113
01:10:41,280 --> 01:10:44,640
Speaker 1: though I know from the scriptures that his desires for

1114
01:10:44,680 --> 01:10:46,840
Speaker 1: none of us to be fatherless, and he says, I'm

1115
01:10:46,840 --> 01:10:50,519
Speaker 1: a father to the fathers. And I recall taking home

1116
01:10:50,560 --> 01:10:53,080
Speaker 1: a student one day and he was upset because his

1117
01:10:53,120 --> 01:10:56,960
Speaker 1: father wasn't in his life. And I looked at him

1118
01:10:57,000 --> 01:10:58,400
Speaker 1: and I said, do you think I would be in

1119
01:10:58,400 --> 01:11:02,320
Speaker 1: this car with you? Afternoon? Sunny day. I could be

1120
01:11:02,920 --> 01:11:06,280
Speaker 1: with my fiance if I have my father in my home.

1121
01:11:07,840 --> 01:11:12,040
Speaker 1: He looked at me, he says, no. I said, what

1122
01:11:12,200 --> 01:11:15,599
Speaker 1: was meant for evil, God will use for good. And

1123
01:11:15,680 --> 01:11:22,920
Speaker 1: so that whole I believe you know that it's meant

1124
01:11:22,920 --> 01:11:26,000
Speaker 1: to keep us well. For me, I'm broken towards those

1125
01:11:26,000 --> 01:11:29,000
Speaker 1: who don't have their fathers and those who are in need.

1126
01:11:30,160 --> 01:11:33,200
Speaker 1: But to your point of what you're sharing, is you

1127
01:11:33,320 --> 01:11:38,160
Speaker 1: still you want to be that servant. But in denying

1128
01:11:38,200 --> 01:11:41,320
Speaker 1: yourself you don't have to neglect yourself. You're right, and

1129
01:11:41,320 --> 01:11:43,680
Speaker 1: that's the principle in what you're teaching exactly.

1130
01:11:43,840 --> 01:11:49,640
Speaker 2: Yes, chapter number six, fear of being seen? Do you

1131
01:11:49,680 --> 01:11:52,479
Speaker 2: think that's the reason that a lot of young men

1132
01:11:52,520 --> 01:11:54,720
Speaker 2: have decided not to get married or not to get

1133
01:11:54,760 --> 01:11:58,200
Speaker 2: married soon. What do you think is the root cause?

1134
01:11:58,800 --> 01:12:02,400
Speaker 2: Is the intimidation of women going to school more or

1135
01:12:02,479 --> 01:12:06,240
Speaker 2: making more money? Or is it is it more about

1136
01:12:06,720 --> 01:12:10,240
Speaker 2: just enjoying their own lives and being themselves. What do

1137
01:12:10,280 --> 01:12:11,800
Speaker 2: you think that is from the.

1138
01:12:11,800 --> 01:12:16,519
Speaker 1: Men that I talked to about this very subject, it's

1139
01:12:16,560 --> 01:12:20,599
Speaker 1: their fear of being seen for who they really are. See,

1140
01:12:20,600 --> 01:12:24,479
Speaker 1: when you know you married every day, Oh you do

1141
01:12:24,520 --> 01:12:26,960
Speaker 1: get depressed sometime. Oh you do lack confidence, so you

1142
01:12:27,040 --> 01:12:29,720
Speaker 1: do have fears. And I tell brothers all the time.

1143
01:12:29,760 --> 01:12:32,320
Speaker 1: You must remember Lois Lane fell in love with Clark Kent,

1144
01:12:32,439 --> 01:12:36,200
Speaker 1: not superman, right right. And so when brothers recognize that,

1145
01:12:36,320 --> 01:12:39,840
Speaker 1: like me and Nicole, I had no money, she made

1146
01:12:39,840 --> 01:12:43,200
Speaker 1: more than me. We got it together together. I didn't

1147
01:12:43,200 --> 01:12:45,479
Speaker 1: allow what I didn't have to stop me from getting

1148
01:12:45,520 --> 01:12:48,040
Speaker 1: who I had in front of me. And so I

1149
01:12:48,080 --> 01:12:51,920
Speaker 1: tell brothers like, you know, what's a classic mister Wilson,

1150
01:12:51,960 --> 01:12:54,000
Speaker 1: need to get my ducks in a row right right now?

1151
01:12:54,120 --> 01:12:54,360
Speaker 2: Jokes?

1152
01:12:54,439 --> 01:12:55,920
Speaker 1: When you have you ever seen ducks in a row?

1153
01:12:56,040 --> 01:12:56,200
Speaker 3: You know?

1154
01:12:56,240 --> 01:12:59,720
Speaker 1: And started laughing. I'm like, yes, you want to be prepared, Yes,

1155
01:12:59,760 --> 01:13:02,920
Speaker 1: you want have your financial order if you can. She's

1156
01:13:02,960 --> 01:13:07,240
Speaker 1: called a helper for a reason, and real maybe that's

1157
01:13:07,280 --> 01:13:11,120
Speaker 1: what it took for me because now I truly value

1158
01:13:11,120 --> 01:13:13,479
Speaker 1: who my wife is in my life, that I can

1159
01:13:13,600 --> 01:13:18,000
Speaker 1: be transparent. And what makes it even more powerful, Bishop

1160
01:13:18,120 --> 01:13:22,240
Speaker 1: is when she see you move through the fear. When

1161
01:13:22,280 --> 01:13:24,479
Speaker 1: you can say, yeah, babe, i'm a little nervous here,

1162
01:13:25,120 --> 01:13:29,080
Speaker 1: or i'm scared this might not go well, but you

1163
01:13:29,160 --> 01:13:33,920
Speaker 1: still walk through it. That's a testimony I've seen you

1164
01:13:34,000 --> 01:13:36,439
Speaker 1: walk through that. But if she never sees it, then

1165
01:13:36,479 --> 01:13:38,439
Speaker 1: you get mad like they are, like they don't care.

1166
01:13:39,640 --> 01:13:42,720
Speaker 1: You look like you're not affected by anything. And so

1167
01:13:43,240 --> 01:13:47,799
Speaker 1: I believe that's the main reason that men hesitate with marriage.

1168
01:13:47,800 --> 01:13:50,160
Speaker 1: And then you got the fear of divorce that's really

1169
01:13:50,160 --> 01:13:53,240
Speaker 1: big as well taking your money. But if you got

1170
01:13:53,240 --> 01:13:56,720
Speaker 1: the right woman and you know it, there's still this

1171
01:13:56,840 --> 01:14:00,880
Speaker 1: hesitancy because well, she still loves you when she knows

1172
01:14:01,120 --> 01:14:02,920
Speaker 1: who I really am.

1173
01:14:03,240 --> 01:14:06,320
Speaker 2: That's good. Yeah, that's good. I think we had that

1174
01:14:06,520 --> 01:14:09,920
Speaker 2: about a lot of relationships. Yes, sir, would you love

1175
01:14:09,960 --> 01:14:12,760
Speaker 2: me if you really knew who I was? And I

1176
01:14:12,760 --> 01:14:15,880
Speaker 2: think that's the deepest kind of loneliness. Loneliness has nothing

1177
01:14:15,920 --> 01:14:19,960
Speaker 2: to do with how many people are around you. Loneliness

1178
01:14:20,040 --> 01:14:23,679
Speaker 2: is all about the depth to which you allow somebody

1179
01:14:23,880 --> 01:14:30,320
Speaker 2: to see inside of you, into me, see intimacy, into me.

1180
01:14:30,560 --> 01:14:41,480
Speaker 3: See okay, yeah, yeah, because because there's there's something disarming

1181
01:14:41,640 --> 01:14:46,120
Speaker 3: and vulnerable about somebody saying into you, especially when you're

1182
01:14:46,120 --> 01:14:50,519
Speaker 3: a leader or teacher, uh profound and and and it's

1183
01:14:50,560 --> 01:14:53,880
Speaker 3: no fun when the rabbit got the gun, you know,

1184
01:14:54,520 --> 01:14:57,400
Speaker 3: and all of a sudden you have to be transparent

1185
01:14:57,479 --> 01:15:00,400
Speaker 3: and say, you know, h.

1186
01:15:01,720 --> 01:15:04,280
Speaker 2: This story helped me so much. I went to my

1187
01:15:04,400 --> 01:15:07,880
Speaker 2: doctor I had the flu, and he was writing out

1188
01:15:07,880 --> 01:15:11,280
Speaker 2: the prescription for me to get something, some medication for

1189
01:15:11,400 --> 01:15:14,559
Speaker 2: the flu, and while he was doing it, I noticed

1190
01:15:14,560 --> 01:15:20,720
Speaker 2: his nose was running, and I thought, you have a profession,

1191
01:15:21,320 --> 01:15:23,720
Speaker 2: but that doesn't stop you from being vulnerable to the

1192
01:15:23,760 --> 01:15:28,040
Speaker 2: same infections that I have. You know how to treat me,

1193
01:15:29,439 --> 01:15:32,760
Speaker 2: but you also still can have the same problems that

1194
01:15:32,840 --> 01:15:35,840
Speaker 2: I do. And I think our country, our world has

1195
01:15:36,320 --> 01:15:39,439
Speaker 2: problems with the fact that we are.

1196
01:15:39,600 --> 01:15:45,240
Speaker 1: But men, you have a doctor who's struggling with his weight. Yeah,

1197
01:15:45,520 --> 01:15:47,240
Speaker 1: and he's trying to tell you not to do it.

1198
01:15:47,280 --> 01:15:51,800
Speaker 1: And that's why I love being transparent with men could

1199
01:15:51,840 --> 01:15:55,680
Speaker 1: see that because it frees them from this facade that

1200
01:15:55,800 --> 01:15:59,240
Speaker 1: so many where like we're all work in progress.

1201
01:15:59,600 --> 01:16:00,760
Speaker 2: Right, I may be a.

1202
01:16:00,680 --> 01:16:02,920
Speaker 1: Little further than you, and a little further I mean

1203
01:16:03,080 --> 01:16:06,720
Speaker 1: behind the next man in front of me. But when

1204
01:16:06,760 --> 01:16:12,240
Speaker 1: men could really see, like, wow, just to hear what

1205
01:16:12,280 --> 01:16:17,240
Speaker 1: you struggle with. Right, I'm human. Right, I'm a human being,

1206
01:16:17,360 --> 01:16:21,800
Speaker 1: and I fought to embrace that. And I won't go

1207
01:16:21,920 --> 01:16:25,799
Speaker 1: back into that box where I have to pretend everything's okay.

1208
01:16:25,840 --> 01:16:29,519
Speaker 1: When it's not right, it's not healthy. It's not no

1209
01:16:29,680 --> 01:16:34,880
Speaker 1: repression of emotion. It's very dangerous. I believe it increases

1210
01:16:34,920 --> 01:16:39,840
Speaker 1: your chances of cancer by thirty percent emotional suppression, you know.

1211
01:16:39,960 --> 01:16:43,240
Speaker 1: So it's like, now I'm okay, I'm gonna express myself

1212
01:16:43,360 --> 01:16:45,160
Speaker 1: in a controlled man. Of course, I don't want to

1213
01:16:45,200 --> 01:16:48,879
Speaker 1: be dogmatic with my wife becoming a good verbal process,

1214
01:16:49,000 --> 01:16:53,439
Speaker 1: even with parenting. I told her a father recently, You're

1215
01:16:53,439 --> 01:16:57,840
Speaker 1: already strong. Your presence is disciplined. The reason it's still

1216
01:16:57,920 --> 01:16:59,920
Speaker 1: not falling in line because they missed the love.

1217
01:17:00,840 --> 01:17:05,120
Speaker 2: I think we need our wives and we need them

1218
01:17:05,200 --> 01:17:07,840
Speaker 2: to see that they give to us. But I also

1219
01:17:07,880 --> 01:17:14,280
Speaker 2: think we need male friends. Oh absolutely, yeah, that sometimes

1220
01:17:14,360 --> 01:17:17,360
Speaker 2: we're too heavy to drop all that.

1221
01:17:17,400 --> 01:17:22,240
Speaker 1: Well, my wife told me because she wanted that access.

1222
01:17:22,280 --> 01:17:23,960
Speaker 1: But then she was one day she was like, okay, look,

1223
01:17:24,479 --> 01:17:26,640
Speaker 1: I don't need to know everything. And I call it

1224
01:17:26,680 --> 01:17:30,320
Speaker 1: the huddle principle. Just like in football, when Tom Brady

1225
01:17:30,640 --> 01:17:32,120
Speaker 1: in the Super Bowl against I think it was Super

1226
01:17:32,120 --> 01:17:37,120
Speaker 1: Bowl fifty against the Atlanta Falcons at halftime, no team

1227
01:17:37,200 --> 01:17:40,320
Speaker 1: ever come back from a deficit that great. Could you

1228
01:17:40,360 --> 01:17:42,320
Speaker 1: imagine if he came to the huddle and like, look,

1229
01:17:43,040 --> 01:17:45,439
Speaker 1: I got some rings, y'all got some rings. We're not

1230
01:17:45,479 --> 01:17:47,800
Speaker 1: going to win, you know, let's just play this out

1231
01:17:47,840 --> 01:17:49,680
Speaker 1: and get out of here. That would have changed the

1232
01:17:49,840 --> 01:17:53,400
Speaker 1: entire vibe of that team. Friend of mine, Trey Flowers,

1233
01:17:53,400 --> 01:17:55,920
Speaker 1: who played on that team, said that was the opposite.

1234
01:17:56,680 --> 01:18:01,400
Speaker 1: He came to the huddle doubt. You didn't feel it,

1235
01:18:01,920 --> 01:18:03,719
Speaker 1: you didn't know it. Same thing when we come home,

1236
01:18:04,280 --> 01:18:06,920
Speaker 1: read the room. Where's my wife at? Right now? What

1237
01:18:07,040 --> 01:18:08,120
Speaker 1: can you take right now?

1238
01:18:08,479 --> 01:18:08,599
Speaker 2: Right?

1239
01:18:08,920 --> 01:18:11,960
Speaker 1: And so I've learned to be considerate with that because

1240
01:18:12,600 --> 01:18:15,240
Speaker 1: here it is sharing a problem, and you'll create another one.

1241
01:18:15,680 --> 01:18:17,559
Speaker 1: So that's what your friends is for. Like my brother

1242
01:18:17,680 --> 01:18:21,000
Speaker 1: Ron who's here, is like I can call him when

1243
01:18:21,040 --> 01:18:23,639
Speaker 1: it's heavy, he can call me, Like, I don't ever

1244
01:18:23,680 --> 01:18:26,600
Speaker 1: want it just about me. Always leave room open for

1245
01:18:26,720 --> 01:18:29,360
Speaker 1: my brother because he needs an ear as well.

1246
01:18:29,680 --> 01:18:37,200
Speaker 2: See to me, we just had a meal and you

1247
01:18:37,320 --> 01:18:39,600
Speaker 2: brought a dish, and I brought a dish, and we

1248
01:18:39,720 --> 01:18:45,960
Speaker 2: shared a meal together. Because if you're always the one

1249
01:18:46,000 --> 01:18:49,840
Speaker 2: cooking and you don't get to eat, that's good. That

1250
01:18:49,960 --> 01:18:53,000
Speaker 2: gets to be mundane. Yes, So I get to eat

1251
01:18:53,040 --> 01:18:55,120
Speaker 2: from the plate of your wisdom. You get to eat

1252
01:18:55,160 --> 01:18:57,920
Speaker 2: from the plate of my wisdom, and we both walk

1253
01:18:58,000 --> 01:19:01,880
Speaker 2: away wiser than we were before we shut down. The

1254
01:19:01,960 --> 01:19:06,519
Speaker 2: reason I'm doing this podcast is to expose people. There

1255
01:19:06,520 --> 01:19:11,280
Speaker 2: are some things that preaching doesn't give you, even the listener,

1256
01:19:11,920 --> 01:19:14,720
Speaker 2: because we are so wrapped up in telling about Ezekiel

1257
01:19:14,720 --> 01:19:17,280
Speaker 2: and Jeremiah and all of Daniel and all these people

1258
01:19:17,520 --> 01:19:21,160
Speaker 2: that we sometimes we had behind them, and it's a

1259
01:19:21,240 --> 01:19:26,080
Speaker 2: camouflage not to talk about you, and you can't get

1260
01:19:26,120 --> 01:19:30,840
Speaker 2: down to practical things like budgeting and financing and that

1261
01:19:30,920 --> 01:19:33,559
Speaker 2: your value is more than who makes the most money.

1262
01:19:33,880 --> 01:19:36,040
Speaker 2: That I didn't get married to be in a contest

1263
01:19:36,080 --> 01:19:39,639
Speaker 2: with my wife. Yes, I wanted to compliment my wife.

1264
01:19:40,120 --> 01:19:42,920
Speaker 2: I wanted her to compliment me, not to contest me.

1265
01:19:43,320 --> 01:19:46,920
Speaker 2: I have enough of that at work. Yes, I don't

1266
01:19:46,960 --> 01:19:49,360
Speaker 2: want to come home and run a foot race in

1267
01:19:49,880 --> 01:19:53,720
Speaker 2: a brown paper bag with you over money, as if

1268
01:19:53,760 --> 01:19:57,599
Speaker 2: that is the only values. If a woman who stays

1269
01:19:57,600 --> 01:20:01,280
Speaker 2: at home and raises the kids is valuable, then a

1270
01:20:01,320 --> 01:20:03,639
Speaker 2: man can make less money than a woman and take

1271
01:20:03,680 --> 01:20:06,160
Speaker 2: care of the car and go to the mechanic and

1272
01:20:06,479 --> 01:20:10,160
Speaker 2: cut the grass and do things and add value to

1273
01:20:10,240 --> 01:20:12,920
Speaker 2: her life too. But it's about what we value and

1274
01:20:12,960 --> 01:20:18,040
Speaker 2: we live in a capitalist a capitalist society where our

1275
01:20:18,160 --> 01:20:23,280
Speaker 2: values often placed so strongly on how much we make.

1276
01:20:23,479 --> 01:20:26,080
Speaker 1: Yes, sir, yeah, yeah, I tell me in all the time,

1277
01:20:26,560 --> 01:20:29,080
Speaker 1: when Nicole made more to me, I deposit her check

1278
01:20:29,160 --> 01:20:32,200
Speaker 1: with no issue, right, nope, I thank you. You know

1279
01:20:33,040 --> 01:20:36,479
Speaker 1: she still needed what money couldn't buy than we provided.

1280
01:20:37,120 --> 01:20:39,519
Speaker 1: And we have to understand that our role, and.

1281
01:20:39,439 --> 01:20:41,840
Speaker 2: I think one of the things that women can help

1282
01:20:41,920 --> 01:20:45,400
Speaker 2: us with is is to help us see what we

1283
01:20:45,920 --> 01:20:48,559
Speaker 2: bring to them that they wouldn't have if we were

1284
01:20:48,600 --> 01:20:53,479
Speaker 2: not there. That's good because if we end up telling

1285
01:20:53,720 --> 01:20:57,360
Speaker 2: the person at the funeral, you know, I miss Charlie

1286
01:20:57,479 --> 01:20:59,840
Speaker 2: checking the doors at night before we went to bed.

1287
01:21:00,760 --> 01:21:04,040
Speaker 2: You know, I miss how he took out the trash.

1288
01:21:04,400 --> 01:21:07,800
Speaker 2: I miss how he handled problems. We need to hear

1289
01:21:07,840 --> 01:21:11,720
Speaker 2: that living because sometimes it is not obvious to us,

1290
01:21:11,880 --> 01:21:15,200
Speaker 2: especially as we age, what do we bring to the table,

1291
01:21:15,280 --> 01:21:19,960
Speaker 2: because we are trained to perform, not to be present.

1292
01:21:20,320 --> 01:21:23,200
Speaker 1: And that's why a lot of men, speaking to men

1293
01:21:23,439 --> 01:21:26,760
Speaker 1: in the mid sixties and older grandfathers in the cave,

1294
01:21:27,600 --> 01:21:30,600
Speaker 1: that transition is hard because of your entire existence is

1295
01:21:30,600 --> 01:21:31,760
Speaker 1: based on performance.

1296
01:21:32,160 --> 01:21:32,280
Speaker 2: Right.

1297
01:21:32,520 --> 01:21:35,320
Speaker 1: When you can't perform, the more you feel like absolutely

1298
01:21:35,400 --> 01:21:39,200
Speaker 1: I need it. Yeah, absolutely, Yeah, that's major. And I'm

1299
01:21:39,240 --> 01:21:42,439
Speaker 1: just thinkful that I started that journey sooner.

1300
01:21:42,800 --> 01:21:49,200
Speaker 2: Chapter number seven, Pain It's universal, came up in Detroit

1301
01:21:51,000 --> 01:21:54,000
Speaker 2: and around gangs and violence and all of that, and

1302
01:21:54,040 --> 01:21:59,000
Speaker 2: you know exactly how to talk to black men, no

1303
01:21:59,040 --> 01:22:03,240
Speaker 2: matter whether they're at the CEO suite or no matter

1304
01:22:03,320 --> 01:22:07,040
Speaker 2: whether they're on a basketball court, you can handle them.

1305
01:22:07,640 --> 01:22:09,280
Speaker 2: If you were in a room for the white men,

1306
01:22:09,280 --> 01:22:10,439
Speaker 2: could you do the same thing.

1307
01:22:10,760 --> 01:22:14,240
Speaker 1: Absolutely, I've done the same. Okay, yeah, And that's was

1308
01:22:14,280 --> 01:22:17,160
Speaker 1: at an event in Souperalls, so with no brothers out there,

1309
01:22:18,280 --> 01:22:21,040
Speaker 1: and as I was speaking, I never forgot it. Uh

1310
01:22:21,240 --> 01:22:24,719
Speaker 1: the most I was like looking to this audience. Almost

1311
01:22:24,720 --> 01:22:29,479
Speaker 1: every white brother then was leaning forward. I think the

1312
01:22:29,560 --> 01:22:33,640
Speaker 1: issues that I dealt with was just black issues and

1313
01:22:33,680 --> 01:22:37,479
Speaker 1: all that. There's something that are uniquely us. What we're

1314
01:22:37,479 --> 01:22:41,120
Speaker 1: struggling with as men is universal, almost right, you know?

1315
01:22:41,240 --> 01:22:44,920
Speaker 1: And so you know I have oh yeah, no, I've

1316
01:22:45,760 --> 01:22:50,800
Speaker 1: counseled many of different backgrounds, and uh, it's the same.

1317
01:22:51,000 --> 01:22:54,200
Speaker 1: It's not, it's not it's the same. It's the same pain,

1318
01:22:54,280 --> 01:22:58,640
Speaker 1: it's the same insecurities, the same, the same misleading mantras.

1319
01:22:58,960 --> 01:23:01,720
Speaker 1: No paying no gain. I heard that he heard you know,

1320
01:23:02,080 --> 01:23:09,080
Speaker 1: and it's about you know seeing past that culture is important.

1321
01:23:09,200 --> 01:23:11,160
Speaker 2: Culture is important, important.

1322
01:23:10,800 --> 01:23:14,880
Speaker 1: To understand culture and background, but the principles of why

1323
01:23:14,920 --> 01:23:16,120
Speaker 1: we're affected are the same.

1324
01:23:16,439 --> 01:23:20,479
Speaker 2: I think there's often a lot of pressure applied to

1325
01:23:20,760 --> 01:23:26,240
Speaker 2: non black men to not show feelings because it's a

1326
01:23:26,280 --> 01:23:28,439
Speaker 2: cultural predisposition.

1327
01:23:28,760 --> 01:23:33,240
Speaker 1: I remember I had opportunity to work with a multicultural

1328
01:23:33,240 --> 01:23:36,120
Speaker 1: group for the Cave of Adullum at my son's school,

1329
01:23:36,160 --> 01:23:37,960
Speaker 1: and I never forget this. One kid, he said that

1330
01:23:38,920 --> 01:23:41,400
Speaker 1: we have emotional check in where you can express your emotions.

1331
01:23:41,400 --> 01:23:44,280
Speaker 1: At the beginning of training. He says, well, this is

1332
01:23:44,360 --> 01:23:47,880
Speaker 1: new for me, mister Wilson, because I'm told I shouldn't

1333
01:23:47,880 --> 01:23:50,760
Speaker 1: have any problems because where we stay in the type

1334
01:23:50,800 --> 01:23:55,240
Speaker 1: of cars we haven't the investments I have. And mom

1335
01:23:55,360 --> 01:23:59,519
Speaker 1: is happy because he's a white kid. It's like it

1336
01:23:59,520 --> 01:24:03,320
Speaker 1: should be a okay. So I call it an expectation

1337
01:24:03,880 --> 01:24:07,320
Speaker 1: place that they can't fail. So a friend of mine

1338
01:24:07,360 --> 01:24:11,160
Speaker 1: who was a banker I trained in iqiujutsu. What he

1339
01:24:11,320 --> 01:24:13,840
Speaker 1: told me? He says, Jason, this is why you'll see

1340
01:24:13,840 --> 01:24:18,120
Speaker 1: a banker get fired, highly qualified to get another job,

1341
01:24:18,720 --> 01:24:21,799
Speaker 1: but goes home and kills himself or even kills himself

1342
01:24:21,840 --> 01:24:25,880
Speaker 1: in his family because that they feel that they can't fail,

1343
01:24:26,040 --> 01:24:30,160
Speaker 1: can't express it. And where do you go? Now? How

1344
01:24:30,200 --> 01:24:33,160
Speaker 1: did you fail? The condemnation is shame. You had everything

1345
01:24:33,200 --> 01:24:36,000
Speaker 1: set up for you, Johnny, how did you blow this?

1346
01:24:36,840 --> 01:24:39,560
Speaker 1: And so when you give these men, I've done it,

1347
01:24:39,600 --> 01:24:42,880
Speaker 1: when they have opportunity to talk, break down. I had

1348
01:24:42,880 --> 01:24:48,200
Speaker 1: a gentleman from it wasn't Poland, it was a popular

1349
01:24:48,240 --> 01:24:50,519
Speaker 1: wrestling country. It escaped me. Now I'm in the gym

1350
01:24:50,560 --> 01:24:54,439
Speaker 1: bishop and he comes over to me, eyes bloodshot, red,

1351
01:24:55,080 --> 01:24:58,080
Speaker 1: big guy, and I'm like, what is this about. He

1352
01:24:58,160 --> 01:25:03,400
Speaker 1: grasps both of my arms. He says, I just watched

1353
01:25:03,439 --> 01:25:07,840
Speaker 1: you and your Rogan episode. Yes, and he did like this,

1354
01:25:08,120 --> 01:25:13,200
Speaker 1: and he says thank you. And the emotions was coming out,

1355
01:25:13,840 --> 01:25:15,960
Speaker 1: different background, same pain.

1356
01:25:16,840 --> 01:25:21,559
Speaker 2: I learned it by watching veterans. When you're in the

1357
01:25:21,640 --> 01:25:26,519
Speaker 2: fox hole together, we're wearing the same uniform, the color

1358
01:25:26,640 --> 01:25:32,480
Speaker 2: fades away. Okay. There is an affinity that develops in crisis.

1359
01:25:33,400 --> 01:25:38,719
Speaker 2: Whether you're in a rehab center or a youth detention center,

1360
01:25:39,160 --> 01:25:43,400
Speaker 2: there is an affinity. But even in a corporate space,

1361
01:25:44,520 --> 01:25:50,080
Speaker 2: if we ever get past what other people think, we

1362
01:25:50,120 --> 01:25:53,000
Speaker 2: would find that there's more to unite us than there

1363
01:25:53,120 --> 01:25:56,400
Speaker 2: is to divide us. Yes, yeah, and that even though

1364
01:25:56,439 --> 01:26:00,719
Speaker 2: we express things different culturally, that they have the same core,

1365
01:26:01,439 --> 01:26:04,680
Speaker 2: same pain, same problem, same understanding. I say that for

1366
01:26:04,880 --> 01:26:09,680
Speaker 2: all of my listeners that may not share a gang situation,

1367
01:26:10,640 --> 01:26:13,960
Speaker 2: but they may not even have an absent father. They

1368
01:26:14,000 --> 01:26:18,400
Speaker 2: may have a distracted father. Okay, he was there, but

1369
01:26:18,479 --> 01:26:22,600
Speaker 2: he wasn't there. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, Yeah. They may have

1370
01:26:22,720 --> 01:26:26,120
Speaker 2: had a mother who ran the four h club and

1371
01:26:26,320 --> 01:26:31,639
Speaker 2: the girls got cookies but didn't really bring that home

1372
01:26:31,880 --> 01:26:34,720
Speaker 2: to them in the way that they needed it. What

1373
01:26:34,760 --> 01:26:38,640
Speaker 2: I'm saying is pain is not prejudice, and that is universal,

1374
01:26:38,760 --> 01:26:43,680
Speaker 2: and so the opportunity to minister across the board is

1375
01:26:43,880 --> 01:26:47,559
Speaker 2: very very important, no matter what your background is, where

1376
01:26:47,600 --> 01:26:51,120
Speaker 2: you came from. It is my hope that you can

1377
01:26:51,400 --> 01:26:55,120
Speaker 2: get the strength to turn the page to go into

1378
01:26:55,160 --> 01:27:01,200
Speaker 2: your next chapter, because next can be so frightening a

1379
01:27:01,360 --> 01:27:07,800
Speaker 2: close with this, Our numerical system is quite interesting whether

1380
01:27:07,840 --> 01:27:12,559
Speaker 2: you got ten dollars or a million dollars. A million

1381
01:27:12,600 --> 01:27:17,160
Speaker 2: dollars is just a collection of dimes, because ten is

1382
01:27:17,160 --> 01:27:20,479
Speaker 2: as high as you can go, and once you get

1383
01:27:20,479 --> 01:27:23,960
Speaker 2: to ten, you have to go back to one again

1384
01:27:24,760 --> 01:27:28,439
Speaker 2: on the next level to hit eleven, and then you

1385
01:27:28,479 --> 01:27:31,000
Speaker 2: get to twenty, you got to go back to one again.

1386
01:27:31,160 --> 01:27:35,479
Speaker 2: So we keep having to enter into worlds where we

1387
01:27:35,560 --> 01:27:40,040
Speaker 2: are recycling ourselves and we are and the atmosphere is

1388
01:27:40,120 --> 01:27:43,200
Speaker 2: foreign and the rules that aren't clear, and we don't

1389
01:27:43,240 --> 01:27:45,240
Speaker 2: know whether we're going to be accepted or not. And

1390
01:27:45,240 --> 01:27:46,640
Speaker 2: by the time we get used to it and we

1391
01:27:46,680 --> 01:27:48,760
Speaker 2: climb up the ladder and we get really good at that,

1392
01:27:49,080 --> 01:27:51,840
Speaker 2: then life throws us in another room where we enter

1393
01:27:51,880 --> 01:27:55,880
Speaker 2: into the room of uncertainty again. And I think when

1394
01:27:55,960 --> 01:27:58,960
Speaker 2: you say give us this day, are daily bread, it

1395
01:27:59,080 --> 01:28:04,719
Speaker 2: is because we can continually find ourselves recycling newness and beginning,

1396
01:28:04,760 --> 01:28:08,799
Speaker 2: and newness is frightening and it's uncomfortable and it's it's

1397
01:28:08,880 --> 01:28:13,000
Speaker 2: it's scary, and yet it's exhilarating. And if you if

1398
01:28:13,000 --> 01:28:15,920
Speaker 2: you get used to it, if you learn how to

1399
01:28:16,000 --> 01:28:20,880
Speaker 2: be comfortable with being uncomfortable, it's almost addictive to have

1400
01:28:21,000 --> 01:28:25,760
Speaker 2: that feeling, because your innovation and your creativity is at

1401
01:28:25,840 --> 01:28:31,559
Speaker 2: its peak when you are uncertain. When you're uncertain, that's

1402
01:28:31,560 --> 01:28:35,360
Speaker 2: when we really get creative. When when you're uncertain, that's

1403
01:28:35,400 --> 01:28:38,040
Speaker 2: when we really stay up reading late at night when

1404
01:28:38,080 --> 01:28:41,240
Speaker 2: you're uncertain, that's when you put the most thought into

1405
01:28:41,280 --> 01:28:44,840
Speaker 2: what am I going to wear? When you're uncertain, that's

1406
01:28:44,880 --> 01:28:48,360
Speaker 2: when you really start thinking of creative ways to reach

1407
01:28:48,400 --> 01:28:53,240
Speaker 2: your goal. Some people respond to that by staying at

1408
01:28:53,760 --> 01:28:59,760
Speaker 2: nine because it's safe when they when they could be

1409
01:28:59,760 --> 01:29:03,080
Speaker 2: through one if they were willing to be a child again.

1410
01:29:03,560 --> 01:29:06,600
Speaker 2: And when Jesus talks about you can't enter into the

1411
01:29:06,680 --> 01:29:09,760
Speaker 2: Kingdom save you become a child, I think that's a

1412
01:29:09,880 --> 01:29:14,679
Speaker 2: spin off of the same idea that adventurous child again

1413
01:29:15,240 --> 01:29:20,439
Speaker 2: and midlife is a chance to be a child again

1414
01:29:21,479 --> 01:29:27,559
Speaker 2: at the next stage of life, So you control whether

1415
01:29:27,640 --> 01:29:33,959
Speaker 2: the abuse continues or stops, because now as you grow older,

1416
01:29:34,320 --> 01:29:39,840
Speaker 2: you're new at this and you can create the reality

1417
01:29:39,920 --> 01:29:43,520
Speaker 2: that's necessary that gives you the grace and the permission

1418
01:29:44,280 --> 01:29:47,080
Speaker 2: to not always be good at this, to stumble and

1419
01:29:47,120 --> 01:29:50,639
Speaker 2: fall and get up and walk again, to be tutored,

1420
01:29:50,680 --> 01:29:53,280
Speaker 2: to be mentored. And the same person who mentors you

1421
01:29:53,400 --> 01:29:56,240
Speaker 2: about body weight may not be the same person who

1422
01:29:56,280 --> 01:29:59,360
Speaker 2: mentors you about finances, may not be the same person

1423
01:29:59,400 --> 01:30:04,280
Speaker 2: that mentors you about business. So to be open enough

1424
01:30:05,120 --> 01:30:10,040
Speaker 2: to be nurtured in the areas of your deficiency required

1425
01:30:10,080 --> 01:30:12,000
Speaker 2: that you are willing to be one again.

1426
01:30:12,520 --> 01:30:14,599
Speaker 1: That's good, Yeah, that's good.

1427
01:30:15,240 --> 01:30:24,160
Speaker 2: Chapter number eight parenting. Did you see a difference in

1428
01:30:24,240 --> 01:30:27,519
Speaker 2: cross gender parenting? How did you raise your son differently

1429
01:30:27,560 --> 01:30:30,160
Speaker 2: from how you were raised? And were you different with

1430
01:30:30,200 --> 01:30:31,840
Speaker 2: your son than you were with your daughter?

1431
01:30:32,040 --> 01:30:35,880
Speaker 1: Yeah? Absolutely, Even to this day, I still see the

1432
01:30:35,960 --> 01:30:40,560
Speaker 1: ramifications of having a heavy hand as a father. And

1433
01:30:40,600 --> 01:30:44,040
Speaker 1: I'm not talking about physical abuse. I'm saying the mentality

1434
01:30:44,080 --> 01:30:50,439
Speaker 1: is tough love and disciplinarian, you know, sometimes being almost

1435
01:30:50,520 --> 01:30:52,880
Speaker 1: like tyrannic around the house if the room wasn't clean.

1436
01:30:53,360 --> 01:30:56,320
Speaker 1: I looked at everything as disrespect instead of a reflection

1437
01:30:56,439 --> 01:30:58,439
Speaker 1: of what could have been going on inside of my daughter.

1438
01:30:59,320 --> 01:31:03,599
Speaker 1: And remember one day I was writing my first book,

1439
01:31:03,600 --> 01:31:06,880
Speaker 1: Cry Like a Man, and I recalled a moment in

1440
01:31:06,920 --> 01:31:11,080
Speaker 1: time when my father was absent and I broke down

1441
01:31:11,120 --> 01:31:14,519
Speaker 1: crying at my desk and I ran to catch my

1442
01:31:14,640 --> 01:31:17,760
Speaker 1: daughter because she was going to school. I dropped to

1443
01:31:17,840 --> 01:31:20,000
Speaker 1: my knees in front of her and I said, I'm

1444
01:31:20,040 --> 01:31:22,680
Speaker 1: so sorry for being the type of dat I was,

1445
01:31:22,720 --> 01:31:25,400
Speaker 1: but that's going to change. And she tried to make

1446
01:31:25,439 --> 01:31:27,640
Speaker 1: me feel better, saying, Dad, you're just trying to be protective.

1447
01:31:27,680 --> 01:31:31,360
Speaker 1: I said, no, that's not how God would parents you.

1448
01:31:32,160 --> 01:31:35,680
Speaker 1: And I had to not only in that moment reconcile,

1449
01:31:35,760 --> 01:31:39,680
Speaker 1: but it's been a journey because a lot of what

1450
01:31:39,800 --> 01:31:42,599
Speaker 1: she went through. My son has a way better father

1451
01:31:42,680 --> 01:31:47,320
Speaker 1: than I was to her, and so I learned through

1452
01:31:47,360 --> 01:31:51,200
Speaker 1: that experience. Especially you know, when you're taught, especially don't

1453
01:31:51,240 --> 01:31:54,280
Speaker 1: spare the rod and all these other writings. You know,

1454
01:31:55,000 --> 01:31:57,800
Speaker 1: after a child is eight years old, if you haven't

1455
01:31:57,840 --> 01:32:01,599
Speaker 1: reared them up per se, you lost this. You got

1456
01:32:01,640 --> 01:32:04,439
Speaker 1: to start, you know, at this point at eight you

1457
01:32:04,520 --> 01:32:07,439
Speaker 1: need to be able to communicate with them like human beings. Right,

1458
01:32:07,600 --> 01:32:11,320
Speaker 1: you shouldn't have to result to discipline and other things

1459
01:32:11,400 --> 01:32:14,240
Speaker 1: like that. Yes, this forms of discipline is needed throughout

1460
01:32:14,280 --> 01:32:18,800
Speaker 1: the journey. But with my son, I'm more patient. I

1461
01:32:18,840 --> 01:32:23,040
Speaker 1: apologize more whenever I'm wrong. I say, son, I'm sorry

1462
01:32:23,040 --> 01:32:25,880
Speaker 1: for that, Dad misread that, or I was wrong. I

1463
01:32:25,880 --> 01:32:28,200
Speaker 1: didn't do that with my daughter. You know, I still

1464
01:32:28,240 --> 01:32:32,280
Speaker 1: had the anger from not having my father around and

1465
01:32:32,280 --> 01:32:36,200
Speaker 1: the insecurities, and I brought all that into my marriage

1466
01:32:37,080 --> 01:32:39,800
Speaker 1: instead of I didn't know how to get a result.

1467
01:32:39,920 --> 01:32:42,640
Speaker 1: Therapy wasn't a thing back then, you know, so, but

1468
01:32:42,680 --> 01:32:47,760
Speaker 1: that's That's one of my major regrets is not parenting

1469
01:32:47,800 --> 01:32:52,920
Speaker 1: her with more love. I chose this. I was disciplined dad,

1470
01:32:53,479 --> 01:32:57,360
Speaker 1: and I regreet that. But with my son, I'm patient. Yes,

1471
01:32:57,400 --> 01:33:00,960
Speaker 1: he has the discipline piece as well, but I always

1472
01:33:01,080 --> 01:33:03,960
Speaker 1: understand that he has a cause and effect. If he's silent,

1473
01:33:05,120 --> 01:33:07,720
Speaker 1: I give him his space, And several times if he's

1474
01:33:07,720 --> 01:33:10,360
Speaker 1: in his room alone, I asked him, can I come in?

1475
01:33:11,120 --> 01:33:13,640
Speaker 1: You know? Is it okay? You say, yeah, cool, I

1476
01:33:13,760 --> 01:33:15,920
Speaker 1: just lay on the floor and maybe do some work

1477
01:33:16,080 --> 01:33:17,840
Speaker 1: because I know he's doing his own thing. And as

1478
01:33:17,880 --> 01:33:20,920
Speaker 1: you were saying, it's more important to be present than perfect, right,

1479
01:33:21,280 --> 01:33:24,919
Speaker 1: And so that's what I learned from parenting and fathers.

1480
01:33:24,960 --> 01:33:27,559
Speaker 1: We you know, we need to convey the heart, not

1481
01:33:27,680 --> 01:33:31,160
Speaker 1: the anger as much like why are you angry? It

1482
01:33:31,280 --> 01:33:33,519
Speaker 1: hurt me because I trusted you that you would do this.

1483
01:33:33,600 --> 01:33:37,680
Speaker 1: It hurts because you keep not doing this. Why But

1484
01:33:37,760 --> 01:33:39,880
Speaker 1: that takes for us to do some more work so

1485
01:33:39,920 --> 01:33:42,839
Speaker 1: that we can undo what's preventing us from being patient.

1486
01:33:43,000 --> 01:33:47,439
Speaker 2: Yeah. Why are the strong suits of your ministry is

1487
01:33:47,479 --> 01:33:50,600
Speaker 2: that you show man how to do the work to

1488
01:33:50,680 --> 01:33:54,479
Speaker 2: behole and how to relate to their children. Yes, and

1489
01:33:54,840 --> 01:33:58,080
Speaker 2: part of it is being able to apologize. And I

1490
01:33:58,160 --> 01:34:00,799
Speaker 2: learned that in my own life and raise my own children,

1491
01:34:00,840 --> 01:34:05,920
Speaker 2: and changed the trajectory of how I verbalize instead of

1492
01:34:06,000 --> 01:34:09,360
Speaker 2: using sign language like you know our fathers did. They

1493
01:34:09,400 --> 01:34:13,840
Speaker 2: used sign language. Come on, let's get some ice. You

1494
01:34:13,960 --> 01:34:18,280
Speaker 2: know you would never get up sorry if I get

1495
01:34:18,280 --> 01:34:21,439
Speaker 2: an ice cream called, but you would never get I'm

1496
01:34:21,439 --> 01:34:29,479
Speaker 2: sorry out of it. Chapter number nine, Wife's Miscarriages. I

1497
01:34:29,520 --> 01:34:37,519
Speaker 2: have a daughter that is unable to have children, and

1498
01:34:37,600 --> 01:34:41,960
Speaker 2: I thought that was sad, and I prayed for her.

1499
01:34:43,600 --> 01:34:46,280
Speaker 2: But it took my wife to make me understand what

1500
01:34:46,360 --> 01:34:50,200
Speaker 2: that does to a woman to not be able to

1501
01:34:50,240 --> 01:34:55,160
Speaker 2: have a child. You you've had a wife who's had

1502
01:34:55,320 --> 01:35:01,800
Speaker 2: five miscarriages. How well did you handle it? And what

1503
01:35:01,840 --> 01:35:04,320
Speaker 2: would you do differently? Well?

1504
01:35:04,360 --> 01:35:09,719
Speaker 1: I didn't handle it. I was programmed to be strong,

1505
01:35:10,040 --> 01:35:15,160
Speaker 1: show no emotions. You know, you tell yourself, well, it's

1506
01:35:15,160 --> 01:35:18,320
Speaker 1: really not a baby because the baby is born. You know,

1507
01:35:18,520 --> 01:35:22,000
Speaker 1: things like that. And I remember our last daughter Olivia,

1508
01:35:22,280 --> 01:35:25,960
Speaker 1: when she miscarried her and the doctor came in and

1509
01:35:26,000 --> 01:35:29,760
Speaker 1: told her after the ultrasound, Olivia's heart wasn't beating, and

1510
01:35:29,800 --> 01:35:33,280
Speaker 1: the culture squeezed my hand and just screamed because I

1511
01:35:33,360 --> 01:35:37,320
Speaker 1: was the fifth child, and I'm just stoically there, just

1512
01:35:37,360 --> 01:35:43,920
Speaker 1: holding her hand like this, but I was hurting. Yeah,

1513
01:35:45,760 --> 01:35:51,200
Speaker 1: but culture, even if it's your own child crying, you're weak.

1514
01:35:51,880 --> 01:35:55,520
Speaker 1: But we accept an athlete when he wins a championship

1515
01:35:55,560 --> 01:35:59,040
Speaker 1: trophy and he's weeping over the trophy. And a man

1516
01:35:59,120 --> 01:36:02,840
Speaker 1: can't cry over child or man his bride, a woman

1517
01:36:02,920 --> 01:36:06,880
Speaker 1: he's been desiring to marry us walking down the aisle,

1518
01:36:07,520 --> 01:36:10,519
Speaker 1: and if he gets emotion, like my best man told me, Gabriel,

1519
01:36:10,560 --> 01:36:13,000
Speaker 1: I'm putting you out here. He said, you cry and

1520
01:36:13,120 --> 01:36:16,160
Speaker 1: hit you in your back, you know. So that's what

1521
01:36:16,240 --> 01:36:20,760
Speaker 1: he told me. So I didn't cry. So but yeah,

1522
01:36:20,280 --> 01:36:25,160
Speaker 1: I wasn't there. And then I maybe I forgot how

1523
01:36:25,200 --> 01:36:27,760
Speaker 1: many years later, but many years later, one of our

1524
01:36:27,760 --> 01:36:31,479
Speaker 1: pastors bought us a plant, and I subconsciously made that plan.

1525
01:36:31,560 --> 01:36:35,559
Speaker 1: Olivia and my wife had moved it one day, and

1526
01:36:35,600 --> 01:36:37,560
Speaker 1: so I'm coming home cleaning up and I'm like, you know,

1527
01:36:38,520 --> 01:36:43,280
Speaker 1: where's this plant? I was frantic, I'm the man. She

1528
01:36:43,400 --> 01:36:47,040
Speaker 1: throw the plane away, run all over the house. I

1529
01:36:47,080 --> 01:36:48,960
Speaker 1: called her, said, have you seen the plant? She was like,

1530
01:36:49,200 --> 01:36:51,599
Speaker 1: what plant? I said, the plant that we got from

1531
01:36:51,680 --> 01:36:53,479
Speaker 1: past to eight. She was like, well, yes, in the

1532
01:36:53,479 --> 01:36:55,960
Speaker 1: back I was gonna move. H'm like, please, don't touch

1533
01:36:56,000 --> 01:37:01,200
Speaker 1: the planet, grabbed a plant, repotted the plant. As I'm

1534
01:37:01,320 --> 01:37:04,519
Speaker 1: repotting it the plan, I started crying. I'm like, okay,

1535
01:37:04,960 --> 01:37:07,840
Speaker 1: what's going on here? And in that moment, God said

1536
01:37:07,840 --> 01:37:11,680
Speaker 1: you never grieved her loss, and so here it is.

1537
01:37:12,320 --> 01:37:15,559
Speaker 1: Thinking that being a man in that moment was just

1538
01:37:15,600 --> 01:37:19,920
Speaker 1: to stay historically strong was the opposite of what that

1539
01:37:19,960 --> 01:37:25,639
Speaker 1: moment needed. I told her a father who his child

1540
01:37:25,680 --> 01:37:29,120
Speaker 1: was recently born and his son has been in nick

1541
01:37:29,200 --> 01:37:32,439
Speaker 1: you for two months, and he asked me after hearing

1542
01:37:32,479 --> 01:37:35,559
Speaker 1: me talk, he said, she telling me I should let

1543
01:37:35,600 --> 01:37:39,519
Speaker 1: her see how I feel. I'm like, yeah, brother, she

1544
01:37:39,600 --> 01:37:42,880
Speaker 1: may think she's alone. I said, yeah, share your heart

1545
01:37:42,920 --> 01:37:46,400
Speaker 1: with her. I start watering. He says, That's what I'm

1546
01:37:46,400 --> 01:37:50,479
Speaker 1: gonna do when I go home. Because Nicole, in hindsight,

1547
01:37:50,600 --> 01:37:54,760
Speaker 1: she said she needed me. She needed to know. It

1548
01:37:54,760 --> 01:37:56,559
Speaker 1: would have been good to know that I was hurting.

1549
01:37:57,160 --> 01:37:58,800
Speaker 1: I don't think I was hurting. I couldn't hurt as

1550
01:37:58,840 --> 01:38:02,720
Speaker 1: much as she was, but she didn't feel it. Yeah,

1551
01:38:02,760 --> 01:38:05,080
Speaker 1: and I was. I was absent in that moment. But

1552
01:38:05,240 --> 01:38:09,400
Speaker 1: now you know, if my heart is hurting. I let

1553
01:38:09,479 --> 01:38:09,840
Speaker 1: him know.

1554
01:38:10,479 --> 01:38:15,519
Speaker 2: I think it's it's it's therapeutic for the man to

1555
01:38:16,160 --> 01:38:20,639
Speaker 2: release his grief and his pain. But I also think

1556
01:38:20,680 --> 01:38:26,639
Speaker 2: it strengthens your marriage when you share grief. Vole said,

1557
01:38:26,720 --> 01:38:29,840
Speaker 2: rejoice with him that do rejoice with those week One

1558
01:38:29,920 --> 01:38:34,120
Speaker 2: of the most astounding things to me in Scripture is

1559
01:38:34,880 --> 01:38:38,120
Speaker 2: when Jesus comes in to marry and Martha and Lazarus

1560
01:38:38,200 --> 01:38:41,320
Speaker 2: is dead and he knows he's going to raise him

1561
01:38:41,360 --> 01:38:44,120
Speaker 2: from the dead. Yes, sir, And yet he sits and

1562
01:38:44,320 --> 01:38:47,320
Speaker 2: weeps with us so much. They say he must have

1563
01:38:47,400 --> 01:38:52,880
Speaker 2: loved them. Yeah, yes, Yeah, that's kinnania. That's that's that's fellowship.

1564
01:38:53,560 --> 01:39:00,000
Speaker 2: To to to mourn with those that mourn strengthens your union.

1565
01:39:01,240 --> 01:39:04,400
Speaker 2: I remember my mother passed away, and her baby brother,

1566
01:39:04,840 --> 01:39:11,240
Speaker 2: who she was crazy about, cried the most, and it

1567
01:39:11,360 --> 01:39:16,479
Speaker 2: made me love him the most because our fraternity was

1568
01:39:16,560 --> 01:39:22,559
Speaker 2: our common love for my mother. Something about him feeling

1569
01:39:22,680 --> 01:39:26,200
Speaker 2: what I felt drew us closer, and we were closer

1570
01:39:26,439 --> 01:39:29,719
Speaker 2: till he died. And I think a lot of men

1571
01:39:30,280 --> 01:39:34,680
Speaker 2: missed great moments, not because we're evil or wicked, but

1572
01:39:34,720 --> 01:39:40,520
Speaker 2: because we don't understand the magnitude of that woman carrying

1573
01:39:40,560 --> 01:39:45,439
Speaker 2: a person in her body, yes, sir, a person whose

1574
01:39:45,520 --> 01:39:50,760
Speaker 2: chromosomes won't ever fully come out of her body. And

1575
01:39:50,880 --> 01:39:55,080
Speaker 2: yet the expectation of the baby is met with the

1576
01:39:55,160 --> 01:39:56,639
Speaker 2: disappointment of the grave.

1577
01:39:57,680 --> 01:40:01,240
Speaker 1: And you know, I believe the Coal would never say this,

1578
01:40:01,360 --> 01:40:04,320
Speaker 1: but the hospital had offered to pay for the funeral

1579
01:40:04,320 --> 01:40:07,040
Speaker 1: because Olivia was I think five and a half months,

1580
01:40:07,320 --> 01:40:11,719
Speaker 1: you know, before when ro Nicole was pregnant, and I'm like, well,

1581
01:40:12,320 --> 01:40:15,719
Speaker 1: we don't need a funeral. You know, she wasn't born,

1582
01:40:15,760 --> 01:40:18,160
Speaker 1: and the Coal was because she said, well, I felt

1583
01:40:18,200 --> 01:40:21,519
Speaker 1: the same way, and I told her recently, I'm like, nah,

1584
01:40:21,680 --> 01:40:25,360
Speaker 1: if I was the man that moment needed, and I'm

1585
01:40:25,439 --> 01:40:29,519
Speaker 1: crying with you and I'm embracing this sadness, this grief,

1586
01:40:30,320 --> 01:40:34,720
Speaker 1: I don't see us turning that away. And so I

1587
01:40:34,760 --> 01:40:41,880
Speaker 1: can't change that now. But we definitely make sure we're

1588
01:40:41,880 --> 01:40:44,760
Speaker 1: open with each other when we're grieving and hurting, and

1589
01:40:44,800 --> 01:40:47,639
Speaker 1: it was sensitive to each other, and like you said,

1590
01:40:47,720 --> 01:40:51,320
Speaker 1: it does draw you closer. I remember when and I'm

1591
01:40:51,360 --> 01:40:53,879
Speaker 1: not to your point. I'm not bragging on the trauma

1592
01:40:54,000 --> 01:40:57,360
Speaker 1: or bringing it up. But my friend in the high

1593
01:40:57,360 --> 01:41:00,800
Speaker 1: school got shot in the head. He lived, thankfully, and

1594
01:41:01,120 --> 01:41:03,160
Speaker 1: one of the martial art teachers in our city who

1595
01:41:03,240 --> 01:41:06,200
Speaker 1: always wanted to train under for a while Kleindy Ae

1596
01:41:06,640 --> 01:41:10,720
Speaker 1: was there and I was just grieving openly because this

1597
01:41:10,960 --> 01:41:14,679
Speaker 1: was my close friend in high school. Because he saw

1598
01:41:14,720 --> 01:41:18,400
Speaker 1: that love. He says, you can work with me, and

1599
01:41:18,439 --> 01:41:23,200
Speaker 1: I won't even charge you, because he saw, like you're saying,

1600
01:41:23,720 --> 01:41:26,320
Speaker 1: the grief, the love and something he hadn't seen, especially

1601
01:41:26,320 --> 01:41:29,120
Speaker 1: in the early nineties where we're trying to be hard

1602
01:41:29,200 --> 01:41:33,040
Speaker 1: and tough, you know, for me to break that gave

1603
01:41:33,120 --> 01:41:35,679
Speaker 1: that guard and for him to see it. And so yeah,

1604
01:41:35,720 --> 01:41:40,720
Speaker 1: the power of grieving together openly, I do agree with you.

1605
01:41:40,760 --> 01:41:42,200
Speaker 1: It draws us closer, it does.

1606
01:41:42,920 --> 01:41:47,920
Speaker 2: It does. It's something special and communal and intimate about it,

1607
01:41:47,960 --> 01:41:51,559
Speaker 2: even though we expressed pain differently and we deal with

1608
01:41:51,680 --> 01:41:55,559
Speaker 2: death differently, and we can't always weigh the depth of

1609
01:41:55,600 --> 01:42:02,120
Speaker 2: a person's love by their reaction to their lost. Some

1610
01:42:02,160 --> 01:42:06,280
Speaker 2: people want to be alone. Some people want everybody around them, said,

1611
01:42:06,760 --> 01:42:09,479
Speaker 2: I tell my friends, you might be schizophrenic, well a

1612
01:42:09,560 --> 01:42:11,479
Speaker 2: man as you want them around the next minute, you

1613
01:42:11,479 --> 01:42:13,400
Speaker 2: want everybody get out, just get out of the house,

1614
01:42:13,439 --> 01:42:16,639
Speaker 2: you know, because because grief is such a roller coaster

1615
01:42:16,760 --> 01:42:22,120
Speaker 2: ryde but understanding that even though we from times to

1616
01:42:22,240 --> 01:42:25,880
Speaker 2: time express things differently, that we have that moment of

1617
01:42:25,960 --> 01:42:31,880
Speaker 2: coming together and say, you know, we lost the child.

1618
01:42:32,640 --> 01:42:37,120
Speaker 2: We lost a child, and I realized I didn't carry

1619
01:42:37,160 --> 01:42:41,640
Speaker 2: the child like you did, but she was in my

1620
01:42:41,720 --> 01:42:46,320
Speaker 2: heart and in my mind, and it kind of bonds

1621
01:42:46,360 --> 01:42:49,040
Speaker 2: you together in a very special way. So thank you

1622
01:42:49,080 --> 01:42:59,360
Speaker 2: for shouting Chapter number ten celebrity quotes. Fifty cents we quoted.

1623
01:42:59,479 --> 01:43:02,080
Speaker 2: I didn't hear, but fifty cent was quoted as saying,

1624
01:43:02,520 --> 01:43:07,320
Speaker 2: depression is a luxury. Where I came from, we were

1625
01:43:07,400 --> 01:43:10,599
Speaker 2: not allowed to be depression. You have to do what

1626
01:43:10,680 --> 01:43:12,760
Speaker 2: you have to do. What do you think of that?

1627
01:43:13,360 --> 01:43:16,800
Speaker 1: I understand it. It was how I was raised. And

1628
01:43:17,800 --> 01:43:21,840
Speaker 1: I don't know the context of that quote, but just

1629
01:43:21,960 --> 01:43:25,880
Speaker 1: judging from what I hear is, you know, man up

1630
01:43:25,880 --> 01:43:29,640
Speaker 1: and keep pushing through. Stay strong. You know what was

1631
01:43:29,680 --> 01:43:32,679
Speaker 1: the mantra, what doesn't kill you can only make you strong?

1632
01:43:32,880 --> 01:43:33,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you know.

1633
01:43:33,920 --> 01:43:37,519
Speaker 1: And so I understand that. But I wonder how old

1634
01:43:37,560 --> 01:43:41,000
Speaker 1: fifty was was when he said that versus now, because

1635
01:43:41,880 --> 01:43:47,400
Speaker 1: we know ungrieved losses affects us negatively as we get older,

1636
01:43:47,439 --> 01:43:50,040
Speaker 1: and it's going to it's going to come out and

1637
01:43:50,200 --> 01:43:53,960
Speaker 1: depression is not a weakness, it's just, you know, it's

1638
01:43:54,000 --> 01:43:55,880
Speaker 1: a part of life. It happens at times.

1639
01:43:56,080 --> 01:43:58,360
Speaker 2: It can be biological as well as.

1640
01:43:58,840 --> 01:44:04,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah for sure. But in cases when it's circumstantial, yeah,

1641
01:44:04,280 --> 01:44:05,960
Speaker 1: you know, I guess that's how he was saying. I

1642
01:44:05,960 --> 01:44:08,200
Speaker 1: got to keep going. I don't care I lose my job,

1643
01:44:08,280 --> 01:44:11,200
Speaker 1: the girl, whatever, I got to keep going. I understand that.

1644
01:44:11,280 --> 01:44:14,760
Speaker 1: But for you not to take an opportunity to grieve

1645
01:44:14,840 --> 01:44:18,439
Speaker 1: those losses or those opportunities, it's going to come out.

1646
01:44:18,760 --> 01:44:23,200
Speaker 2: One of the hard things about being famous is every

1647
01:44:23,320 --> 01:44:32,120
Speaker 2: word you say it's drying. Yeah, everything is evaluated and shaken.

1648
01:44:32,200 --> 01:44:37,560
Speaker 2: That a regular person can say something and it's not scrutinized,

1649
01:44:38,200 --> 01:44:40,320
Speaker 2: but if you say it all of a sudden, they

1650
01:44:40,439 --> 01:44:43,240
Speaker 2: pick it apart and just dissect it and there it up.

1651
01:44:43,520 --> 01:44:45,800
Speaker 1: I remember one time I met fifty when he was

1652
01:44:45,800 --> 01:44:48,439
Speaker 1: a g unit. I had a radio show in Detroit

1653
01:44:49,160 --> 01:44:51,880
Speaker 1: and my program director was nervous. I was gonna give

1654
01:44:51,960 --> 01:44:54,679
Speaker 1: him a Christian hip hop CD because I've been praying

1655
01:44:54,720 --> 01:44:58,600
Speaker 1: for him, and my program director is like, yo, you know,

1656
01:44:59,400 --> 01:45:01,400
Speaker 1: be careful you go, And when nothing happened at the

1657
01:45:01,479 --> 01:45:04,479
Speaker 1: radio station, like come on. You know, I walked over

1658
01:45:04,520 --> 01:45:06,639
Speaker 1: to him and said, I made this for you, actually

1659
01:45:06,640 --> 01:45:09,960
Speaker 1: a picture of him praying he had had taken you know,

1660
01:45:10,080 --> 01:45:12,880
Speaker 1: he said, he looked around like this what I'm talking about?

1661
01:45:13,400 --> 01:45:13,800
Speaker 1: Thank you?

1662
01:45:14,720 --> 01:45:15,040
Speaker 2: Yeah?

1663
01:45:15,120 --> 01:45:19,080
Speaker 1: You never know, Yeah, you never know. And so yeah,

1664
01:45:19,120 --> 01:45:23,000
Speaker 1: in that court, I just on the outside looking in

1665
01:45:23,040 --> 01:45:25,599
Speaker 1: of who he is and you're tough and you got

1666
01:45:25,600 --> 01:45:28,840
Speaker 1: to make it. He just saying, you know, feel it,

1667
01:45:28,880 --> 01:45:33,320
Speaker 1: but don't succumb to it. You know. But sometimes, especially

1668
01:45:33,320 --> 01:45:36,040
Speaker 1: has been a god, he is coming to that weakness

1669
01:45:36,280 --> 01:45:38,679
Speaker 1: as we were talking about, allows the power of Christ

1670
01:45:38,720 --> 01:45:43,000
Speaker 1: to be perfected through us. Absolutely, yeah, absolutely so.

1671
01:45:43,600 --> 01:45:48,000
Speaker 2: Tianna Taylor made a statement, just because I'm strong doesn't

1672
01:45:48,040 --> 01:45:51,719
Speaker 2: mean that I don't need to be confident that she said,

1673
01:45:51,800 --> 01:45:55,400
Speaker 2: you know, I'm a strong black woman and that's applauded

1674
01:45:55,479 --> 01:45:58,760
Speaker 2: all the time. But she she kind of said, that

1675
01:45:58,840 --> 01:46:02,840
Speaker 2: doesn't mean that I don't need to have support, to

1676
01:46:02,960 --> 01:46:07,920
Speaker 2: have love, to have comfort. How how do you are

1677
01:46:07,960 --> 01:46:11,440
Speaker 2: we misreading the strength of our women.

1678
01:46:14,600 --> 01:46:20,320
Speaker 1: Man, I don't think we're misreading it. I believe some

1679
01:46:20,400 --> 01:46:25,280
Speaker 1: of us misuse it. We're getting to the place now

1680
01:46:25,280 --> 01:46:29,479
Speaker 1: where I'm concerned because women are becoming stoics, right, And

1681
01:46:29,560 --> 01:46:34,440
Speaker 1: I believe once we lose a woman's endearing love and empathy,

1682
01:46:34,720 --> 01:46:39,439
Speaker 1: we're in some deep trouble. And so it's similar with

1683
01:46:39,520 --> 01:46:44,120
Speaker 1: us man. It's like, yeah, there's moments we got to

1684
01:46:44,160 --> 01:46:46,759
Speaker 1: be strong, but it doesn't mean that we're not hurting.

1685
01:46:46,800 --> 01:46:50,519
Speaker 1: It doesn't mean that we're not sad or have concern.

1686
01:46:51,000 --> 01:46:53,720
Speaker 1: And so when you a lot of women are just

1687
01:46:54,240 --> 01:46:58,880
Speaker 1: fighting to be recognized or again not being taken advantage

1688
01:46:58,880 --> 01:47:02,439
Speaker 1: of and of A man is not doesn't have an

1689
01:47:02,479 --> 01:47:05,519
Speaker 1: emotional repertoire. He doesn't even know how to express things,

1690
01:47:06,360 --> 01:47:08,880
Speaker 1: even just for the things that she does and bring

1691
01:47:08,920 --> 01:47:12,920
Speaker 1: to their marriage at home. Yeah, and so a lot

1692
01:47:12,960 --> 01:47:15,880
Speaker 1: of that comes from not feeling valued. I believe it

1693
01:47:15,960 --> 01:47:16,639
Speaker 1: is for.

1694
01:47:16,520 --> 01:47:19,680
Speaker 2: Me the same fear that I have for a I

1695
01:47:19,720 --> 01:47:23,519
Speaker 2: have a love hate relationship with it me too, because

1696
01:47:23,680 --> 01:47:28,080
Speaker 2: whatever it becomes, we help created it. And I think

1697
01:47:28,360 --> 01:47:32,040
Speaker 2: our women have had to be strong, and we helped

1698
01:47:32,120 --> 01:47:37,559
Speaker 2: create that strength by our absence, or by our abuse,

1699
01:47:38,600 --> 01:47:41,200
Speaker 2: or by the pain they went through early in life

1700
01:47:41,880 --> 01:47:44,960
Speaker 2: put them in a position that they find it difficult

1701
01:47:44,960 --> 01:47:48,240
Speaker 2: to be vulnerable, to feel safe enough to be vulnerable,

1702
01:47:48,320 --> 01:47:50,479
Speaker 2: you know, I think we have to own that we

1703
01:47:50,680 --> 01:47:55,640
Speaker 2: created whatever AI becomes, and we sometimes created whatever that

1704
01:47:55,720 --> 01:47:57,400
Speaker 2: woman becames. Even if it wasn't you, it might have

1705
01:47:57,439 --> 01:48:00,360
Speaker 2: been the man before you, or the father before you.

1706
01:48:00,080 --> 01:48:03,360
Speaker 2: You might be reaping something that you didn't sew, living

1707
01:48:03,439 --> 01:48:05,799
Speaker 2: in a house that you didn't build, but you still

1708
01:48:05,880 --> 01:48:09,160
Speaker 2: got to content with it and understand that we contributed

1709
01:48:10,000 --> 01:48:14,240
Speaker 2: to that isolation that seems to be so pervasive in

1710
01:48:14,280 --> 01:48:16,679
Speaker 2: our communities and in our relationships today.

1711
01:48:16,840 --> 01:48:18,960
Speaker 1: You know that that makes me think of how many

1712
01:48:19,080 --> 01:48:21,200
Speaker 1: single mothers I help in the Cave of Adullum, And

1713
01:48:21,800 --> 01:48:27,360
Speaker 1: I remember one mother said we helped her be mom

1714
01:48:28,439 --> 01:48:30,720
Speaker 1: And what she meant by that was she had to

1715
01:48:30,720 --> 01:48:35,440
Speaker 1: become part of dad because he wasn't around the haircuts

1716
01:48:35,439 --> 01:48:39,400
Speaker 1: and the football and tackling and then disciplinarian, and she

1717
01:48:39,520 --> 01:48:42,479
Speaker 1: missed the nurturing piece, and so she had to lose

1718
01:48:42,560 --> 01:48:45,800
Speaker 1: that because as a boy becomes a teenager, you know,

1719
01:48:46,200 --> 01:48:50,320
Speaker 1: he needs to make sure he has that order. And

1720
01:48:50,360 --> 01:48:53,200
Speaker 1: so she was saying, thank you for allowing me to

1721
01:48:53,240 --> 01:48:53,759
Speaker 1: be mommy.

1722
01:48:53,960 --> 01:48:54,160
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1723
01:48:54,400 --> 01:49:00,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, we had like our sister's desire to be in

1724
01:49:00,840 --> 01:49:03,960
Speaker 1: our place like that. And it's not necessarily always a case.

1725
01:49:03,960 --> 01:49:09,320
Speaker 1: In some cases you see that, but from the mothers

1726
01:49:09,360 --> 01:49:15,680
Speaker 1: I work with. It's both of us, and we have

1727
01:49:15,800 --> 01:49:19,120
Speaker 1: to definitely do a better job at communicating the hurt.

1728
01:49:19,280 --> 01:49:24,240
Speaker 1: You know, we're both wounded, We're both hurting, and until

1729
01:49:24,240 --> 01:49:27,160
Speaker 1: we both acknowledge that and express that in healthy way,

1730
01:49:28,160 --> 01:49:29,320
Speaker 1: we keep hurting each other.

1731
01:49:29,640 --> 01:49:30,160
Speaker 4: It's right.

1732
01:49:30,320 --> 01:49:35,360
Speaker 2: Absolutely, Lebron made an interesting statement about being alone. He said,

1733
01:49:35,360 --> 01:49:37,760
Speaker 2: I don't want to be alone. He went on to

1734
01:49:37,800 --> 01:49:40,000
Speaker 2: explain that he was an only child. If I have

1735
01:49:40,160 --> 01:49:42,760
Speaker 2: to crawl, if I have to scratch, whatever I have

1736
01:49:42,920 --> 01:49:45,679
Speaker 2: to do to make my marriage work, I don't want

1737
01:49:45,760 --> 01:49:49,240
Speaker 2: to be alone. Do you think that only people who

1738
01:49:49,320 --> 01:49:53,880
Speaker 2: are raised the only child have a more desperate need

1739
01:49:54,120 --> 01:49:57,639
Speaker 2: for connection in their relationships or is that you need

1740
01:49:57,880 --> 01:49:59,200
Speaker 2: to Lebron himself.

1741
01:50:00,160 --> 01:50:03,080
Speaker 1: I believe so because I was even though I had brothers,

1742
01:50:03,720 --> 01:50:08,639
Speaker 1: because they died and I have one living brother, Saint Clair,

1743
01:50:08,720 --> 01:50:11,639
Speaker 1: who was in Texas, but when he went to college,

1744
01:50:11,680 --> 01:50:13,920
Speaker 1: I was alone. So I felt like, you know, the

1745
01:50:14,000 --> 01:50:18,400
Speaker 1: only child. And absolutely that was one of the main

1746
01:50:18,479 --> 01:50:22,800
Speaker 1: things with me making sure I didn't get divorced. I

1747
01:50:22,840 --> 01:50:25,639
Speaker 1: didn't want to live take the path my father took

1748
01:50:25,720 --> 01:50:29,519
Speaker 1: because for the first time I have a family. You know,

1749
01:50:29,960 --> 01:50:32,040
Speaker 1: I never it was just me and my mom, and

1750
01:50:32,080 --> 01:50:33,840
Speaker 1: so I get what he's saying. They're like, you know,

1751
01:50:33,880 --> 01:50:38,240
Speaker 1: and it's even deeper than being lonely. It's just living

1752
01:50:38,320 --> 01:50:42,479
Speaker 1: life without the person right beside you to help you

1753
01:50:42,800 --> 01:50:47,640
Speaker 1: build everything together. And so I definitely understand what he

1754
01:50:47,720 --> 01:50:50,200
Speaker 1: means by that, you know, like the I'm gonna do

1755
01:50:50,240 --> 01:50:52,960
Speaker 1: whatever I can to fight for this marriage. And hence

1756
01:50:52,960 --> 01:50:55,920
Speaker 1: why I tell men, you know, if you're in argument

1757
01:50:55,960 --> 01:50:58,800
Speaker 1: with your wife and don't always go to we can

1758
01:50:58,840 --> 01:51:02,559
Speaker 1: get divorced, then like eliminate that. And I had to

1759
01:51:02,600 --> 01:51:07,479
Speaker 1: fight that as well. And so yeah, I definitely value

1760
01:51:07,600 --> 01:51:12,559
Speaker 1: my marriage and I can't see living life without the cold.

1761
01:51:12,560 --> 01:51:14,720
Speaker 1: I told her because she will say, you know, if

1762
01:51:14,880 --> 01:51:17,000
Speaker 1: if I leave before you, you know, it's okay, you can.

1763
01:51:17,360 --> 01:51:19,760
Speaker 1: I said, no, after you, there'll be no more. I'm

1764
01:51:20,400 --> 01:51:23,439
Speaker 1: I'm okay, I'm fixty five, I'm straight giving me a

1765
01:51:23,520 --> 01:51:26,240
Speaker 1: ranch for some animals and about to do this all over.

1766
01:51:26,800 --> 01:51:29,439
Speaker 1: But yeah, no, I yeah, to be able to go

1767
01:51:29,520 --> 01:51:33,519
Speaker 1: home and have a woman that it can just loves

1768
01:51:33,520 --> 01:51:34,880
Speaker 1: you and just want to be next to you, like

1769
01:51:34,920 --> 01:51:38,640
Speaker 1: I see you and missus Jakes. You know that's I

1770
01:51:38,680 --> 01:51:41,760
Speaker 1: saw it up close on your show you had and

1771
01:51:41,920 --> 01:51:45,719
Speaker 1: it's authentic and you know not to have to worry

1772
01:51:45,720 --> 01:51:48,760
Speaker 1: about it. She out stepping out and all that old foolishness.

1773
01:51:52,720 --> 01:51:57,080
Speaker 1: But yeah, you gotta worry about that. Yeah, yeah, you

1774
01:51:57,080 --> 01:51:59,679
Speaker 1: know I I I understand what he means.

1775
01:51:59,760 --> 01:52:05,400
Speaker 2: You been listening to Jason Wilson, you should you owe

1776
01:52:05,439 --> 01:52:09,760
Speaker 2: it to yourself to get his new book, The Man,

1777
01:52:10,200 --> 01:52:12,160
Speaker 2: The Moment Demands.

1778
01:52:13,560 --> 01:52:13,760
Speaker 1: Man.

1779
01:52:14,439 --> 01:52:19,479
Speaker 2: When I when I read that title, I was jealous. Yeah,

1780
01:52:19,560 --> 01:52:21,600
Speaker 2: that title is slamming.

1781
01:52:21,840 --> 01:52:25,080
Speaker 1: Thank you, the Man the Moment, Thank you the Man

1782
01:52:26,000 --> 01:52:27,759
Speaker 1: you know, means a lot coming from you, right.

1783
01:52:27,720 --> 01:52:33,760
Speaker 2: Oh, listen, it made you buy the book, whether we

1784
01:52:34,760 --> 01:52:37,960
Speaker 2: who you were or not. The Man the Moment demand,

1785
01:52:38,720 --> 01:52:41,960
Speaker 2: especially in the moment we're in right now. I thought

1786
01:52:41,960 --> 01:52:45,760
Speaker 2: it was a really really smart title. Thank you, Thank you.

1787
01:52:46,120 --> 01:52:47,720
Speaker 2: I have enjoyed this conversation.

1788
01:52:47,920 --> 01:52:52,599
Speaker 1: I appreciate you. Thank you, Thank you, appreciate it, thank you,

1789
01:52:52,720 --> 01:52:53,679
Speaker 1: thank you for listening.

1790
01:52:53,880 --> 01:52:57,479
Speaker 2: I hope you enjoyed us, and I hope you got

1791
01:52:57,479 --> 01:52:59,920
Speaker 2: something out of it that sticks with you and stays

1792
01:53:00,080 --> 01:53:03,400
Speaker 2: with you and riches your life. I certainly did. We

1793
01:53:03,479 --> 01:53:08,240
Speaker 2: had a great time. I hope this will be your

1794
01:53:08,320 --> 01:53:12,120
Speaker 2: next chapter. Hey, everybody, I want to take this time

1795
01:53:12,200 --> 01:53:16,479
Speaker 2: to thank you for watching the Next Chapter Podcast. If

1796
01:53:16,479 --> 01:53:20,960
Speaker 2: this conversation inspired you, helped you reflect on an idea,

1797
01:53:21,320 --> 01:53:26,280
Speaker 2: or spark something new inside of you, make sure to like, comment,

1798
01:53:26,800 --> 01:53:33,599
Speaker 2: and subscribe so you don't miss future episodes. Remember, life

1799
01:53:33,760 --> 01:53:37,479
Speaker 2: isn't about how you begin, It's about how you finished.

1800
01:53:37,479 --> 01:53:43,200
Speaker 2: Strong to start your next chapter with us right here

1801
01:53:44,240 --> 01:53:45,080
Speaker 2: every week