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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome stuff. One

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Speaker 1: Never Told You, Protection of Buy Heart Radio, and today

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Speaker 1: for feminist movie Friday, we're talking about the twenty twenty

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Speaker 1: one documentary Summer of Love or When the Revolution Could

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Speaker 1: Not Be Televised, directed by Amir Questlov Thompson, who is

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Speaker 1: a coworker.

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Speaker 2: He's on our network network, so we know friends of

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Speaker 2: friends and friends.

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Speaker 1: We're definitely like two degrees away from him.

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Speaker 2: We two are one.

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Speaker 1: Well one, I think you're right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, one, I think we're one. Like we're so close

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Speaker 2: to sitting next to him one day in a random work.

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Speaker 1: Activity, random work activity. Yeah. I think we actually did

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Speaker 1: go to an event at a conference where he was

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Speaker 1: the DJ. Oh, I don't know. I don't know. I

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Speaker 1: think we're there. I don't know if we were there

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Speaker 1: when he was the DJ, but eventually I think we

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Speaker 1: left before that happened, which is very on brand for us, right, yes,

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Speaker 1: but yes, So this documentary delves into the nineteen sixty

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Speaker 1: nine Harlem Cultural Festival and the lack of media coverage

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Speaker 1: on it, other civil rights movements and social change that

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Speaker 1: was happening at the same time. It won so many awards,

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Speaker 1: including the Academy Award for Best Documentary Feature, Just so Many.

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Speaker 1: One of the reasons it caught so much attention was

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Speaker 1: the restoration of the footage, which is amazing. It looks amazing.

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Speaker 2: Well, the sound was so good too, like the sounds

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Speaker 2: so clear.

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Speaker 1: Yes, would. I was shocked at how good it looked,

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Speaker 1: not because just because it's from the seventies, like the

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Speaker 1: late sixties, early seventies. It looks amazing. The second part

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Speaker 1: of the title comes from poet and musician Gil Scott

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Speaker 1: Heron's nineteen seventy poem and song The Revolution Will Not

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Speaker 1: Be Televised, And it's a mix of concert footage from

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Speaker 1: this event and interviews with people who attended or performed

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Speaker 1: that really tells the story of what was going on

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Speaker 1: at the time, why it mattered, how it's relevant now.

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Speaker 1: The music is so stunning, it's just amazing, and people

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Speaker 1: are so moved when they're talking about it and when

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Speaker 1: they're remembering it amazing. You can see our past episodes

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Speaker 1: on women, black Women in Blues, Black Women in Hip Hop,

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Speaker 1: Massage Noir less directly related but related. Yes, yes, all right,

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Speaker 1: So I wrote plot question Mark because it's kind of

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Speaker 1: a less of a plot and more of a breakdown

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Speaker 1: of what this is and how it yeah happens, As

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Speaker 1: we said. The film documents the Harlem Cultural Festival, which

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Speaker 1: took place in Harlem over six weekends from June twenty

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Speaker 1: ninth to August twenty fourth, where black performers took the

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Speaker 1: stage and the list of performers was wide ranging and

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Speaker 1: really impressive. Stevie Wonder, Nina Simone, Mahalia Jackson, Gladys Knight

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Speaker 1: and the Pips, B. B. King, Sly and the Family Stone,

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Speaker 1: the Chambers Brothers, the Fifth Dimension and Mavis Staples, among

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Speaker 1: so many others. It was sponsored by Maxwell House, the

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Speaker 1: coffee brand.

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Speaker 2: Can we talk about the ad in there too.

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Speaker 1: It's a very time cheek ad tongue in cheek in

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Speaker 1: the fact that they showed this ad Maxwell House did

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Speaker 1: that was not the most so kind of appropriate. They're like, oh,

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Speaker 1: coffee beads from Africa.

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Speaker 2: Africa, the lens of Africa. The whole thing was like, oh.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yes, but they were the sponsor. It was produced

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Speaker 1: and directed by Tony Lawrence and it was supported by

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Speaker 1: New York City's Liberal Republican mayor John Lindsay. The Black

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Speaker 1: Panthers provided security because the NYPD refused at first. A

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Speaker 1: later came in, but at first they were like no,

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Speaker 1: no know. About three hundred thousand people attended, It was free,

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Speaker 1: and it was this huge, huge event. While the festival

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Speaker 1: had these powerhouse performances and professional cameras covering the whole thing, Woodstock,

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Speaker 1: which was happening about one hundred miles away, completely overshadowed

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Speaker 1: this in mainstream media coverage. Over forty hours were filmed,

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Speaker 1: all of which was condensed down into two one hour

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Speaker 1: specials that I think were shown on ABC and CBS.

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Speaker 1: After that, the tapes were shelved and pretty much forgotten,

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Speaker 1: though some tried to bring them back to light a

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Speaker 1: couple of times, and footage of Nina Simone's performance was

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Speaker 1: used in a couple of documentaries about her. The producer

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Speaker 1: of these forty hours, how Tuccin, was one of the

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Speaker 1: key people trying to get these tapes out to the public.

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Speaker 1: He tried to sell the footage, but to paraphrase him,

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Speaker 1: nobody cared. A film archivist named Joe Laura reached out

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Speaker 1: to Tuccin and digitized and cataloged the tapes. There were

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Speaker 1: a couple of relationships and deals that didn't work out,

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Speaker 1: and in twenty sixteen, a couple of producers came together

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Speaker 1: to make this film and they approached Questlov about the project.

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Speaker 1: He was initially shocked he'd never heard of it, and

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Speaker 1: decided he wanted to make sure that others did. He said, quote,

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Speaker 1: the fact that forty hours of footage was kept from

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Speaker 1: the public is living proof that revigionous history exists. It

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Speaker 1: was incredibly important for me to get that history right.

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Speaker 1: And he also he has a lot of great interviews

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Speaker 1: about this, but he was talking about how at first

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Speaker 1: he was questioning whether he could do this, but then

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Speaker 1: just was like, yes, this is something I can do

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Speaker 1: and needs to be done and needs to be done correctly.

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Speaker 1: And I really love how it opens and closes with

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Speaker 1: attendee Musa Jackson, who's a kid when he went and

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Speaker 1: to see his reaction that actually that wasn't what they

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Speaker 1: were intending. I think they wanted to end with Mahalia

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Speaker 1: Jackson in Mavis doing that really emotional thing emotional performance

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Speaker 1: sets in the middle. But seeing his reaction it was

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Speaker 1: just such a good book end of remembering this experience, right.

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Speaker 2: I mean the fact that he also had to go

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Speaker 2: back and be validating and like, no, I remember this happening.

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Speaker 2: I thought I was people thought I was crazy. I

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Speaker 2: thought I was crazy, but I'm not.

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Speaker 1: It happened.

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Speaker 2: It really happened.

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Speaker 1: Like I love that.

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Speaker 2: That was that level of like the erasure and then

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Speaker 2: the validation.

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Speaker 1: Essentially, Yeah, it's good. And he was so clearly moved

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Speaker 1: and at seeing this, that this footage that had been

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Speaker 1: pretty much hidden way and a race for all this time.

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Speaker 1: So it's really lovely. The music's great, The footage is amazing.

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Speaker 1: I highly recommend. But yes, obviously one of the big

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Speaker 1: themes is the music. There is a lot of talk

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Speaker 1: in there about how music can commemorate or recognize these

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Speaker 1: huge and often painful cultural events or moments or just existences.

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Speaker 1: So the one I mentioned earlier, Mahalia Jackson singing Martin

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Speaker 1: Luther King Junior's favorite hymn with Mavis was a really emotional,

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Speaker 1: powerful moment.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and just for context, I think you mentioned but

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Speaker 2: the fact that MLK had just been it's not too

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Speaker 2: long before, as well as the founder of the Black

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Speaker 2: pant Panther, Malcolm X. So so many people have been

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Speaker 2: especially during this time in this conversation of civil rights activism.

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Speaker 2: This was so close to that that it was very

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Speaker 2: significant in what was being performed, in what was being

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Speaker 2: relayed through this specific festival.

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Speaker 1: Yes, and I do have a quote about that from

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Speaker 1: an NPR article. After a violent winter, the Summer of

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Speaker 1: Soul was a musical moment of healing by Carol Cooper quote.

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Speaker 1: Unlike Woodstock, these concerts were no syperitic celeration of hippie counterculture,

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Speaker 1: but a direct response to the profound losses and violence

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Speaker 1: endured by black activists and progressives that preceded that summer.

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Speaker 1: Nonviolent and legislative attempts to dismantle and institutionalized racism had

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Speaker 1: led to a devastating series of political assassinations during the

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Speaker 1: nineteen sixties, most attributed to arcane conspiracy theories. Having lost

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Speaker 1: Medgar Evers in nineteen sixty three, Malcolm X in nineteen

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Speaker 1: sixty five, then both the Reverend doctor Martin Luther King

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Speaker 1: Junior and Robert F. Kennedy in nineteen sixty eight, ordinary

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Speaker 1: Black citizens were tired of counting martyrs. The nineteen sixty

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Speaker 1: nine edition of the f was a carefully coordinated reaction

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Speaker 1: to these cumulative losses. Black America's acute sense of being

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Speaker 1: forcibly denied. Both altruistic leadership and hope made the Harlem

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Speaker 1: Cultural Festival about more than mere music. So yeah, it

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Speaker 1: was a It was a lot of uh, these really

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Speaker 1: traumatic events had happened, a lot of loss of leadership,

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Speaker 1: And through the interviews with attendees and musicians, you hear

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Speaker 1: about these ideas of both using music as something for

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Speaker 1: progress and for activism, but also using music as therapy

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Speaker 1: or as a way to come together and let some

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Speaker 1: of these emotions out or share some of these emotions

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Speaker 1: with a community. Right.

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Speaker 2: And I think when we talk about music in general,

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Speaker 2: when we talk about gospel music, when we talk about

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Speaker 2: folk music, when we talk about hip hop, we know

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Speaker 2: the origination. And when we often talk about we cant

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Speaker 2: to contribute beginning or the creation or the invention of something,

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Speaker 2: it's usually to the black community. The black people music

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Speaker 2: would be at the top of that list. And I

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Speaker 2: think that's something that we have to consistently remember. And

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Speaker 2: the fact that we see two big events would stock

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Speaker 2: and this event happening back to back, and only one

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Speaker 2: got the attention and one was appealing to all kind

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Speaker 2: of you know, that whole hippie lifestyle like just love

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Speaker 2: each other man, We just want to be together unity,

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Speaker 2: which is a great ideal, while this festival was talking

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Speaker 2: about survival essentially and being strong and strengthening each other

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Speaker 2: and building each other up as humans. So I think

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Speaker 2: it's such a giant conversation in that and then knowing

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Speaker 2: which one was erased once again and which one wasn't

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Speaker 2: and lives in like infamy, like one of we know

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Speaker 2: when it comes to Woodstock, everybody knows what that is

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Speaker 2: without knowing what that is, as where we talk about

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Speaker 2: the Harlem Cultural Festival in that conversation of like we

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Speaker 2: knew kind of vaguely because of Nina's amone. I think

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Speaker 2: if you know anything about activism and music and you

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Speaker 2: know about her, you know a little bit in its context,

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Speaker 2: but not the full array of what it was. And

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Speaker 2: just in conversation when we're talking about music in general,

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Speaker 2: we have to understand that music really did come from

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Speaker 2: the black community. And when we see Travesty's in this

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Speaker 2: conversation where they're no longer part of that conversation, I

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Speaker 2: know that was a kind of a chopped up centis

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Speaker 2: but that's when we know that injustice is very, very

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Speaker 2: very real. Erasure is very, very, very real because these

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Speaker 2: were all things that they have been doing that this

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Speaker 2: has been their therapy, their conversations, their stories that so

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Speaker 2: many people would try to hide.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, one of the reasons I would really recommend this

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Speaker 1: documentary is that you get to see all kinds of

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Speaker 1: styles of music, all types of genres, and and hearing

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Speaker 1: the musicians talk about it, or even just the attendees

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Speaker 1: talk about, oh, I'd never heard this type, or I'd

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Speaker 1: never heard this type, or I've never done this or

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Speaker 1: something like that. It was really really interesting.

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Speaker 2: And comedians. I love thatians coming through.

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Speaker 1: I was like, okay, yeah they did. They did. And

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Speaker 1: another thing we're going to talk about later is that,

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Speaker 1: you know, this is all very dire what we're talking about.

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Speaker 1: It was very dire, but it's a very joyous, like

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Speaker 1: this experience. A lot of the crowd is so joyous

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Speaker 1: and you can see just like all ages of people.

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Speaker 2: Also, it was free.

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Speaker 1: It's free my mind. These are like huge names. It

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Speaker 1: was like hit after hit after hit.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, Stevie Wonder is on there. Of course, Nina

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Speaker 2: Simone once again, but Mahalia Jackson was huge too, Like

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Speaker 2: like huge names, you're like wait.

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Speaker 1: What, Yeah, yeah it was. It was amazing. Yeah, it

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Speaker 1: was just really cool to see. And one of the

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Speaker 1: things going back to kind of the the therapy thing,

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Speaker 1: it just it stuck out to me because it was

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Speaker 1: about UGA.

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Speaker 2: But that's conversation we have to come back to. Who

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Speaker 2: goes all like, but that is my Alma monter, Like,

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Speaker 2: that's what I went to school, And I'm like, oh

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Speaker 2: it was.

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Speaker 1: It was a reporter that was being interviewed. She was

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Speaker 1: talking about the power of music is therapy and finding

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Speaker 1: this and she was one of the first black people

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Speaker 1: who was allowed to attend UGA and got a lot

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Speaker 1: of backlash, experienced a lot of racist attacks because of it.

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Speaker 1: And she would have these people like banging because they

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Speaker 1: knew what room was hers, so they would be banging

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Speaker 1: around to disturb her, and she would just turn on

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Speaker 1: Nina Simone and listen to it, like, no, I can.

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Speaker 2: I would love to know who that woman was, the

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Speaker 2: white woman that interviewed. She was like, they can't be here,

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Speaker 2: they can't they can be here. I don't like it,

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Speaker 2: but they better not be in our dorm rooms. Essentially,

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Speaker 2: I know. I'm like, I hope this haunts you. I

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Speaker 2: hope your grandkids see this and are at least embarrassed.

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Speaker 2: They might not be horrified because I probably already know

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Speaker 2: who you are, but at least I hope generationally y'all

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Speaker 2: are embarrassed.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, But she had a really interesting story too

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Speaker 1: about working as a black woman in editorial and writing

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Speaker 1: and journalism. Very fascinating. Also something I wanted to touch

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Speaker 1: on because I thought it was cool. I know this

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Speaker 1: about Questlove because I've seen some interviews with him. He's

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Speaker 1: a very technical person, like he like likes knowing the

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Speaker 1: technology and stuff of how did they record this? What

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Speaker 1: was the technology then? Like we said, this documentary looks amazing,

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Speaker 1: And I feel like a lot of times when we

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Speaker 1: do female first with eaves or something, we always come

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Speaker 1: back to we have to thank the researchers who did

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Speaker 1: this work. Are the people who were constantly like, no,

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Speaker 1: we need to we can't let this die, or we

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Speaker 1: can't forget this, and the people who did the restoration,

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Speaker 1: who were behind the reclamation of this that it just

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Speaker 1: looks amazing, it sounds amazing. It's it's such a great

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Speaker 1: snapshot of the time, but it's also such a it's

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Speaker 1: so well contextualized with the history and all the things

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Speaker 1: that were happening, but it also is like it comes

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Speaker 1: back to what's happening in our current day and just

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Speaker 1: the work of people doing that of all the like

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Speaker 1: technical aspects and storytelling us specs and making sure that

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Speaker 1: this was done well historically.

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Speaker 2: They were able to show us what needs to be

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Speaker 2: done when it comes to history repeating itself, like the

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Speaker 2: level of work that they've already gone through. Also, I

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Speaker 2: was very sad. I'm not gonna lie, I think I'm

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Speaker 2: in a mood. I'm in a mood any when it

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Speaker 2: comes to just everything happening and I think today is

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Speaker 2: one of my bad days. Yeah, just gonna put that

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Speaker 2: a little out there. But it made me sad because

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Speaker 2: these people who I'm so glad we were they were

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Speaker 2: able to talk to and interview and bring back to

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Speaker 2: see their reactions and their joy and their like all

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Speaker 2: of the things that they had felt and being able

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Speaker 2: to really relate that to the audience at the same

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Speaker 2: time feeling like we're back here again, and realizing how

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Speaker 2: much that community who was working during the civil rights

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Speaker 2: movement and civil rights movement and time, how much they

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Speaker 2: had to go through and what kind of work and

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Speaker 2: sacrifice that they had to go through, but to only

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Speaker 2: be here again, I'm not gonna lie. I had a moment, yeah,

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Speaker 2: because I was like, son of a why they did

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Speaker 2: so much and they made so much progress?

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Speaker 1: Oh my god. Yeah, now I had that moment too.

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Speaker 1: I had that moment too. And I mean, that's one

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Speaker 1: of the things I think is great about it though,

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Speaker 1: is that it doesn't shy away from that, but it

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Speaker 1: also does show the joy of this event particularly and

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Speaker 1: why it was so important. And another thing they touch

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Speaker 1: on is why it's so important that the movie exists

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Speaker 1: because not everyone could go to Woodstock, but there was

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Speaker 1: a movie, there was footage they could see, like they

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Speaker 1: could if you couldn't go to this event that was

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Speaker 1: like so powerful and you know, like the whole crowd

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Speaker 1: is almost completely black people. Like it was a very

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Speaker 1: powerful event. And if you couldn't go and you never

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Speaker 1: heard of this, you missed that whole scene. And so

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Speaker 1: the power of having this footage and being able to

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Speaker 1: watch it and at least experience it in some way

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Speaker 1: is really important because not all of us can go

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Speaker 1: to these events, you know, for whatever reason. Maybe you're

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Speaker 1: just not New York, maybe you can't afford it to

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Speaker 1: New York, whatever it is, and so having this is

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Speaker 1: really important.

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Speaker 2: I will say the founder did say that at the

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Speaker 2: very beginning, he said, welcome to this history making event,

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Speaker 2: Like he really had that in there, and it was like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: it really was. Obviously, had we not seen this documentary,

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Speaker 2: not many people would have known how much history was made.

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Speaker 2: But to see that and how significant that was, Wow,

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Speaker 2: Like it we really did get to be a witness

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Speaker 2: to a historical time yeah event.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And like we said, you would just see people

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Speaker 1: get so caught up in the memories, like they would

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Speaker 1: be watching it just like not answering the question because

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Speaker 1: they were just so caught up in it and being

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Speaker 1: so open about the experience. So I did want to

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Speaker 1: touch on that of just like the power of having

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Speaker 1: things like this. And then of course identity was a

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Speaker 1: huge theme in here. As we said, it was a

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Speaker 1: huge time of shift. Actually, when we were writing our book,

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Speaker 1: we kind of had to have this discussion of like,

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Speaker 1: why are so many events we're focusing on from like

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Speaker 1: this specific time period. But it was a time of

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Speaker 1: huge shift culturally, societally, politically, and there were a couple

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Speaker 1: of things that stood out to me that people brought up.

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Speaker 1: One was the conversation of the Fifth Dimension, I believe,

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Speaker 1: where they said they felt like they weren't black enough. Yes,

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Speaker 1: and they were talking about how much that hurt them

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Speaker 1: and how they were like, you know, how do you

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Speaker 1: color a sound? But music being very segregated at that time,

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Speaker 1: and why it was so important to them that they

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Speaker 1: performed at this event that was about celebrating black culture

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Speaker 1: and black music and black people and it was an

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Speaker 1: excellent performance.

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Speaker 2: It was such a great performance.

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Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, and.

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Speaker 2: I have this church moment. I love that.

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Speaker 1: I love how the person that we talked about, Muster Jackson,

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Speaker 1: who opens and closes it, he's like interspersed throughout. And

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Speaker 1: he was like, I just remember they were wearing the

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Speaker 1: Creamsickle outfits, like he remembered it. He was so young,

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Speaker 1: but he remembered it.

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Speaker 2: Remember that there were so many kids in that audience.

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Speaker 2: It was fun to watch them really get into that

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Speaker 2: type of music. I will say that, Yeah, that group

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Speaker 2: was so interesting because they talked about how they became

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Speaker 2: hits in like the whole like interaction with the hair, production,

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Speaker 2: actual play, and how they came up with their one

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Speaker 2: of their number one songs. But I think it does

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Speaker 2: lead to a huge conversation about, like, culturally, what does

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Speaker 2: music look like? And honestly, it was before the conversation

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Speaker 2: of no, but the black community are the ones who

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Speaker 2: created this type of sound to begin with. It just

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Speaker 2: got co opted and because of that, the black community

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Speaker 2: created a different type of context because they wanted like

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Speaker 2: they were good at creating different types of music in

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Speaker 2: that level, and then that conversation of like where do

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Speaker 2: we belong if this is the type of sound we have,

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Speaker 2: and then also going into but we belong everywhere? And

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Speaker 2: that should be the point as well as when these

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Speaker 2: get co opted, there comes a conversation about ownership, and

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Speaker 2: we know when it comes to ownership it often gets

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Speaker 2: handed to those who have the most power. And why

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Speaker 2: supremacy has most power? You know, I'm going right way

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Speaker 2: deep into that thought process, but it is interesting to

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Speaker 2: see because we also have to be mindful in these

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Speaker 2: conversations about like who why people do gatekeep specific music

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Speaker 2: and sounds or anything in general versus why pple abuse

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Speaker 2: and and and take control of something for monetary gain r.

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Speaker 1: There is so much. There is so much, But it

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Speaker 1: was really like seeing them talk about it and they

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Speaker 1: having those like oh, I remember when we did this,

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Speaker 1: or I remember, yeah, it was really it was really nice.

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Speaker 1: There was also a discussion of gender parody in there,

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Speaker 1: especially amongst women attendees, and I think it was in

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Speaker 1: the family Stone they were talking about like I've never

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Speaker 1: seen a woman play the trumpet before and seeing before

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Speaker 1: and how how impactful that was for them, So that

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Speaker 1: was really cool. Of course, Harlem was a big theme,

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Speaker 1: just Harlem in itself and the the history of Harlem

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Speaker 1: and the culture of Harlem, the food, the music, that fashion.

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Speaker 1: It was like a you can't remove it from the

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Speaker 1: whole real festival.

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Speaker 2: Well, Harlem is a culture, like in itself, we know

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Speaker 2: what Harlem represents and what it became for many who

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Speaker 2: had been ousted of other areas, many especially in the

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Speaker 2: black community, outsted of like the South and where they

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Speaker 2: would end up, and Harlem in itself became a time period,

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Speaker 2: like it became a focus, like it became a main character,

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Speaker 2: and so many conversations when it comes to music and art. Again,

390
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Speaker 2: that realm though is so often co opted because we

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Speaker 2: only know Harlem and some big players, but the influence

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Speaker 2: it had trickles into so many things today that people

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Speaker 2: don't recognize it for.

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Speaker 1: What it was, you know, yeah, yeah, absolutely absolutely. There

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Speaker 1: was so much to be said about Harlem in this

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Speaker 1: in this documentary, and they also talked about Spanish Harlem,

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Speaker 1: and they talked about how at this festival they had

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Speaker 1: Puerto Rican performers as well and why that was so important.

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Speaker 1: It's just great again, they did such a fantastic job

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Speaker 1: of contextualizing the whole thing, right, what was going on?

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Speaker 2: It was interesting. Manuel well and his father, right, yeah,

402
00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:29,359
Speaker 2: we're both featured on there in the conversation and his father, Louise.

403
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Speaker 2: Manuel was specific because he remembers those eras talking about

404
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Speaker 2: how significant that type of community was and how the

405
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Speaker 2: black and Latino community really had to come together during

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Speaker 2: that time. And there was one feature when they were

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Speaker 2: specifically focusing on the Black Panthers and the Black Panthers

408
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Speaker 2: coming in being security because the cops refused to help

409
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Speaker 2: in this festival. So the Black Panthers are like, we

410
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Speaker 2: got you. We make sure that everything is up and up.

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Speaker 2: But in that conversation, the Black Panther members are also

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Speaker 2: talking about how they are there to protect and ensure

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Speaker 2: the rights of the black, the brown, the Asian, like

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Speaker 2: the the I think he said Puerto Ricans specifically, because

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Speaker 2: I know there's a lot of Puerto Ricans in that

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Speaker 2: area New York.

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Speaker 1: Creacan. They had a turn I never heard before.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but in that like very specific culture because they

419
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Speaker 2: need you to understand that if you're not white, you're

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Speaker 2: a part of the marginalized. And as much as you

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Speaker 2: want to pretend to be a part of that supremacy,

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Speaker 2: you'll never be. You'll always be an underling to white supremacy.

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Speaker 2: And what the Black Panthers really put into conversation was

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Speaker 2: the intersectionality of what was needed even before intersectionality was

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Speaker 2: a conversation. Yeah, and when I'm saying intersectionality just at

426
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Speaker 2: the levels of like, yeah, you might not be completely oppressed,

427
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Speaker 2: but you're somewhat oppressed.

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Speaker 1: You know, like the levels may be.

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Speaker 2: Different for you, but is there.

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Speaker 1: We talked about them in our Ada the Accessibility episode,

431
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Speaker 1: and they were there for that as well.

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Speaker 2: They were a part of the conversation with the Flave

433
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Speaker 2: before That's a whole different thing, but like it was

434
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Speaker 2: really interesting to see. But again, like that focal point

435
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Speaker 2: within Harlem, that that era really just drive it home

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Speaker 2: into what they were looking at. It was bigger than

437
00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:28,480
Speaker 2: just a festival. It was.

438
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:42,440
Speaker 1: Something else they touched on. And here is religion, and

439
00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:50,480
Speaker 1: it was really interesting conversation kind of talking about Christianity

440
00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:55,879
Speaker 1: coming in and co opting again like African religions, but

441
00:26:56,000 --> 00:27:00,800
Speaker 1: the importance of music in religion. And they have a

442
00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:06,280
Speaker 1: whole great conversation about gospel music in there and the

443
00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:13,040
Speaker 1: power of that. And then yes, they obviously big theme

444
00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:19,080
Speaker 1: who gets televised, who gets erased, So they do have

445
00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:22,760
Speaker 1: a bunch of clips from they were interviewing people at

446
00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:26,600
Speaker 1: this festival and the moon landing had just happened, and

447
00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:29,879
Speaker 1: so many of the people like, no, this is more

448
00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:33,000
Speaker 1: important to me. You're just wasting my tax payer money.

449
00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:38,919
Speaker 1: You should put that in. Harlow like, why are you, oh,

450
00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:41,320
Speaker 1: why are you sending it there when we have all

451
00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:44,760
Speaker 1: of these people who need it here. But so, yeah,

452
00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:48,880
Speaker 1: this was like this hugely important event for a lot

453
00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:52,080
Speaker 1: of people. Woodstock had gotten all this coverage. Now the

454
00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:54,560
Speaker 1: moon landing was getting all this coverage, but it wasn't

455
00:27:54,600 --> 00:28:00,760
Speaker 1: getting any any coverage really, So Stevie Won says in there,

456
00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:03,639
Speaker 1: the so called powers that are were didn't find it

457
00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:08,280
Speaker 1: significant enough to keep it as part of history. And yeah,

458
00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:11,399
Speaker 1: I mean even Queslov has a lot of quotes about it.

459
00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:15,800
Speaker 1: He's like, I can't believe I was denied this. This

460
00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:18,280
Speaker 1: would have meant so much to me. It would have

461
00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:23,480
Speaker 1: maybe changed my whole musical understanding. But instead it just

462
00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:27,520
Speaker 1: sat and gathered dust for all these years.

463
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:30,920
Speaker 2: You know, and I know we're going to talk about

464
00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:32,800
Speaker 2: it in just a second, but I think it really

465
00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:37,400
Speaker 2: comes close to what people, what many people have said,

466
00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:41,120
Speaker 2: whether they're a queer community, whether they're disabled, or whether

467
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:43,680
Speaker 2: they are a part of the people of color, if

468
00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:48,160
Speaker 2: it's not tragic or traumatic or violent, they don't want

469
00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:48,480
Speaker 2: to know this.

470
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:49,440
Speaker 1: They don't care.

471
00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:52,240
Speaker 2: They don't want to spread Yeah, they don't want to

472
00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:55,600
Speaker 2: spread joy because they were having joy and unity and

473
00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:58,800
Speaker 2: so that was too good. They looked too happy. They

474
00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:03,520
Speaker 2: looked too Christine, this is influential in a positive manner,

475
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:06,720
Speaker 2: So to show that is not as good. They want

476
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:10,560
Speaker 2: to show anything that looks if if something volatile had happened,

477
00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:15,000
Speaker 2: absolutely it would have been the number one headline story

478
00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:19,080
Speaker 2: of whatever violence or issue or riot or whatever they

479
00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:22,560
Speaker 2: could think of could have happened. But because it wasn't

480
00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:25,800
Speaker 2: because it was a celebration, because people loved it, and

481
00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:27,560
Speaker 2: then probably we would want more of it.

482
00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:29,720
Speaker 1: They did not.

483
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:32,920
Speaker 2: It was not catchy enough because it was too much joy.

484
00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:34,800
Speaker 2: And I think about that all the time, like the

485
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:37,080
Speaker 2: bad news that we see that we don't see enough

486
00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:40,200
Speaker 2: of the joy, but a collective joy for a giant

487
00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:44,000
Speaker 2: group of people in an area that's still being gentrified

488
00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:47,360
Speaker 2: at that point or hadn't been quite gentrified at that point.

489
00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:50,960
Speaker 2: To have that as a published part, of course, I'm

490
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:52,520
Speaker 2: not going to show that. Of course they would try

491
00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:55,680
Speaker 2: to erase that because that's too much in giving up

492
00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:56,880
Speaker 2: love and humanity.

493
00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:03,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and they did. They certainly did try to

494
00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:07,960
Speaker 1: keep it under wraps for a very long time. But yeah,

495
00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:10,800
Speaker 1: I did want to end on that note of joy.

496
00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:14,320
Speaker 1: It does look, like I said, when you're looking out

497
00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:18,320
Speaker 1: into the crowd, it looks incredibly joyful. When you're listening

498
00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:22,720
Speaker 1: to the interviews, people are moved, but in joyous way.

499
00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:26,120
Speaker 1: I think the last line is Russa Jackson. He says,

500
00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:30,440
Speaker 1: and how beautiful it was, and he's just like visually

501
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:37,080
Speaker 1: tearing up but happy. It's a very like we said.

502
00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:40,000
Speaker 1: It tackles these dark, dark things, but it's very joyous

503
00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:45,840
Speaker 1: in the music. And here's a quote from questlov nineteen

504
00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:47,920
Speaker 1: sixty nine was the year we planted the seeds of

505
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:50,960
Speaker 1: what we call black joy, the idea of seeing ourselves

506
00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:54,240
Speaker 1: in a beautiful light, learning to love ourselves, because previously

507
00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:57,400
Speaker 1: all indications pointed to the self hate we've been going

508
00:30:57,440 --> 00:31:00,120
Speaker 1: through since the days of slavery and Jim Crow. That

509
00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:03,280
Speaker 1: year we embraced our blackness and coined the phrase black

510
00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:04,040
Speaker 1: is beautiful.

511
00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:07,160
Speaker 2: And that's another conversation. That's also the same year that

512
00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:10,000
Speaker 2: they coined the term black like instead of calling people

513
00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:12,480
Speaker 2: a derogatory term that we know now, that they began

514
00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:15,360
Speaker 2: using the term, you know, black community, black people in

515
00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:18,520
Speaker 2: a way in order to reverse some of the trauma

516
00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:21,880
Speaker 2: that has been imposed due to the labeling in itself.

517
00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:25,920
Speaker 2: And yeah, I loved that too, with Nina Simone's poems

518
00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:30,880
Speaker 2: of like empowering blackness is a gorgeous thing. And also

519
00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:33,560
Speaker 2: this is I think something we could have said at

520
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:36,520
Speaker 2: the top, because neither Annie and I are from the

521
00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:41,800
Speaker 2: black community obviously. How However, with that conversation is like,

522
00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:46,440
Speaker 2: we have the opportunity to witness something beautiful that wasn't

523
00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:49,720
Speaker 2: for us. This is not for us in that manner

524
00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:54,120
Speaker 2: of that. We should be inspired by their work, We

525
00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:57,000
Speaker 2: should be inspired by that community, We should be inspired

526
00:31:57,040 --> 00:31:59,840
Speaker 2: by the beauty that happened there and to be able

527
00:31:59,880 --> 00:32:04,200
Speaker 2: to acknowledge how beautiful this festival was. But it's not

528
00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:05,239
Speaker 2: about us.

529
00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:06,520
Speaker 1: It's not for us.

530
00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:10,520
Speaker 2: And that's that understanding that we should actually absolutely elevate

531
00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:14,880
Speaker 2: these voices, but an understanding and try to pretend like, yeah,

532
00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:17,320
Speaker 2: and I did this for them. Nah. No, this is

533
00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:21,440
Speaker 2: an amazing documentary that shows so much beauty and joy

534
00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:24,160
Speaker 2: and we should be frustrated that we have not been

535
00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:25,520
Speaker 2: able to witness this before.

536
00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:32,080
Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely absolutely, because it's I mean, I can't recommend

537
00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:36,520
Speaker 1: it enough. It's it's so good, the music, all of it.

538
00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:39,840
Speaker 2: Mahalia Jackson, Mahalia Jackson, I apologize. So I watched. I

539
00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:41,400
Speaker 2: think I've talked about this before when we were talking

540
00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:45,080
Speaker 2: about gospel music and soul music. Watching a play based

541
00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:47,440
Speaker 2: on her when I was working as a missionary in

542
00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:50,480
Speaker 2: small town, Oklahoma, which I was trying to think back

543
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:52,360
Speaker 2: on who got this tickets? They're like, we need to

544
00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:54,960
Speaker 2: go see this play. The people I went with were

545
00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:57,600
Speaker 2: not black. I'll tell you that so I don't know

546
00:32:57,680 --> 00:32:59,200
Speaker 2: who we were, like, we need to go see this

547
00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:01,440
Speaker 2: because that was so outside the realm of what I

548
00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:04,160
Speaker 2: would have expected because I was there with the Southern

549
00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:07,200
Speaker 2: Baptist Convention, y'all. This was before I knew better.

550
00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:10,640
Speaker 1: Okay, So don't judge me, but this memory, well you

551
00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:11,160
Speaker 1: can judge me.

552
00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:14,640
Speaker 2: Actually you should judge me, but this memory specifically of

553
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:17,160
Speaker 2: going to because I remember that play was so good

554
00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:19,000
Speaker 2: and the lead actress that I can't remember, I am

555
00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:23,400
Speaker 2: so sorry. In Oklahoma. It was glorious. Everything about that

556
00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:26,400
Speaker 2: play was good. The music was good, the actors were good,

557
00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:28,280
Speaker 2: the tailing of the story was good. And it was

558
00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:32,880
Speaker 2: also joyous celebrating her life and to see her perform

559
00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:38,080
Speaker 2: live like for that was amazing. It's truly mind blowing

560
00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:42,280
Speaker 2: to see that type of performance actually on stage, and

561
00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:44,520
Speaker 2: that it was in a secular setting because she did

562
00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:47,160
Speaker 2: often did perform everywhere, but she was also a specifically

563
00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:51,280
Speaker 2: gospel singer. So gorgeous. It was so gorgeous. But the

564
00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:55,920
Speaker 2: entirety of that with her and Mavis was so beautiful. Yes,

565
00:33:56,520 --> 00:33:59,240
Speaker 2: like heart stoppingly like h and I'm not even religious,

566
00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:00,200
Speaker 2: but it was gorge.

567
00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:03,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it was really nice because you know, it

568
00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:05,880
Speaker 1: was a sad moment in a lot of ways that

569
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:09,000
Speaker 1: Mahelia Jackson was like, maybe this I don't feel well

570
00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:15,560
Speaker 1: like she shared this. Yeah, that's because she remember it.

571
00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:18,160
Speaker 2: Not only that's one of the best starts. Sorry, it's

572
00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:20,360
Speaker 2: like Mayva was saying, like, I remember her coming up

573
00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:22,360
Speaker 2: to me, and then they show it on the clip

574
00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:24,400
Speaker 2: of her going up through that. I told Stilwell, and

575
00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:25,680
Speaker 2: he's just seeing girls.

576
00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:27,280
Speaker 1: Like a they have it on film.

577
00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:29,560
Speaker 2: They have it on film. That's phenomenal.

578
00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:31,440
Speaker 1: And the camera angles were amazing.

579
00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:34,640
Speaker 2: I was like, oh whoa Like he and the original

580
00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:38,080
Speaker 2: guy who came in on a very low budget with

581
00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:42,320
Speaker 2: his own idea with the sponsorship still but like he

582
00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:45,520
Speaker 2: had very minimal mal equipment, but he did amazing job

583
00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:49,480
Speaker 2: with this work. Like he came in knowing that it

584
00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:50,359
Speaker 2: could be so good.

585
00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:57,239
Speaker 1: Yes, and it really was, and he was understandably frustrated

586
00:34:57,320 --> 00:34:59,520
Speaker 1: that they just shelved it, as we all are and

587
00:34:59,560 --> 00:34:59,880
Speaker 1: should be.

588
00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:00,839
Speaker 2: Yeah.

589
00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:09,879
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I highly recommend loved it. Loved it yes

590
00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:16,480
Speaker 1: well listeners. If you have any suggestions for movies we

591
00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:20,080
Speaker 1: should talk about or music love music suggestions all the time,

592
00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:24,320
Speaker 1: you can email us at Hello at Stuffwenever Told You

593
00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:27,359
Speaker 1: dot Com. You can find us on Blue Sky at

594
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:30,560
Speaker 1: mom Stuff podcast, or on Instagram and TikTok at stuff

595
00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:32,920
Speaker 1: one Never Told You. We're also on YouTube, we have

596
00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:35,120
Speaker 1: a t polk store, and we have we Can Get

597
00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:37,160
Speaker 1: Forever You Get Here books. Thanks as always to our

598
00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:39,799
Speaker 1: super producer Chris, senior executive Bruce Maya, and your contributor Joey.

599
00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:42,680
Speaker 1: Thank you and I see you for listening. Stuff Never

600
00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:43,880
Speaker 1: Told You is the protection of my Heart Radio. For

601
00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:45,440
Speaker 1: more podcast from my Heart Radio, you can check out

602
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Speaker 1: the heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or if you listen

603
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Speaker 1: to your favorite shows,