1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:02,800 Speaker 1: There's a brand new website causing a lot of trouble 2 00:00:02,880 --> 00:00:05,200 Speaker 1: for people with something to hide? Have you ever had 3 00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:08,520 Speaker 1: a bad feeling about somebody, suspect that a partner of cheating, 4 00:00:09,119 --> 00:00:12,760 Speaker 1: worried about your online reputation? If you answer yes to 5 00:00:12,840 --> 00:00:16,840 Speaker 1: any of those questions, you may need truth Finder. Truth 6 00:00:16,880 --> 00:00:24,200 Speaker 1: Finder may reveal court records, bankruptcies, contact information, social dating profiles, assets, 7 00:00:24,280 --> 00:00:26,960 Speaker 1: and a lot more. You get it all in one 8 00:00:27,120 --> 00:00:31,000 Speaker 1: easy to read report. Why work out thousands of dollars 9 00:00:31,040 --> 00:00:33,519 Speaker 1: to a private eye when you can do the job yourself. 10 00:00:33,880 --> 00:00:37,040 Speaker 1: Go to truth finder dot com, slash Nancy and enter 11 00:00:37,200 --> 00:00:47,040 Speaker 1: any name to get started. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace 12 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:53,080 Speaker 1: on Sirius x him Triumph Channel one thirty two. A 13 00:00:53,200 --> 00:00:58,920 Speaker 1: five year old little boy goes missing, and seemingly everyone 14 00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:03,639 Speaker 1: goes about their business. Why it seems as if your 15 00:01:03,720 --> 00:01:10,319 Speaker 1: world would stop? But not necessarily true? Right now the 16 00:01:10,480 --> 00:01:18,080 Speaker 1: stunning and shocking details in the disappearance a five year 17 00:01:18,120 --> 00:01:22,720 Speaker 1: old Lucas hernandez I. Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. 18 00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:25,720 Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us. Take a listen to this. 19 00:01:26,160 --> 00:01:29,679 Speaker 1: We're here sadly today to talk about a case really 20 00:01:29,680 --> 00:01:34,119 Speaker 1: that has captured the hearts of our community and very 21 00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:39,560 Speaker 1: sad case that has been pulling at our heartstrings since February. 22 00:01:40,120 --> 00:01:46,760 Speaker 1: That is the missing boy Lucas Hernandez. Also as some 23 00:01:46,840 --> 00:01:52,360 Speaker 1: of you know, uh Lucas's stepmother, Emily Glass and booked 24 00:01:52,360 --> 00:01:58,640 Speaker 1: into the Center of County Jail for felony obstruction of justice. 25 00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:02,080 Speaker 1: The body that was discovered in Harvey County was found 26 00:02:02,160 --> 00:02:08,000 Speaker 1: under a bridge in a culvert area near st. And 27 00:02:08,200 --> 00:02:14,600 Speaker 1: Wood Lawn just outside of Sedgwick County into Harvey County, 28 00:02:16,600 --> 00:02:22,000 Speaker 1: and we discovered that Emily Glass had actually taken private 29 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:28,040 Speaker 1: investigator to that site. The private investigator had been hired 30 00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:35,200 Speaker 1: by Lucas's family. When the body was found, the investigator 31 00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:40,000 Speaker 1: called Witchtop Police Department to report the discovery and we 32 00:02:40,480 --> 00:02:46,240 Speaker 1: responded along with Harvey County authorities and when we arrived, 33 00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:49,040 Speaker 1: we found the private investigator and Emily Glass at the scene. 34 00:02:51,960 --> 00:02:57,880 Speaker 1: We interviewed the private investigator and got information that is 35 00:02:57,919 --> 00:03:00,960 Speaker 1: assisting us in our case. We discovered that he had 36 00:03:01,040 --> 00:03:06,080 Speaker 1: arrived earlier this week in Wichita and he told us 37 00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:11,799 Speaker 1: that Emily Glass had led him to the body. The 38 00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:17,480 Speaker 1: private investigator is named David marsha Burn of North Carolina, 39 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:20,960 Speaker 1: and joining me right now, that private investigator, the p 40 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:26,280 Speaker 1: I who discovered five year old Lucas's remains along with 41 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:32,079 Speaker 1: his stepmother, Emily Glass, joining me right now, David Marshburn. David, 42 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:34,040 Speaker 1: thank you so much for being with us. Thank you 43 00:03:34,120 --> 00:03:38,680 Speaker 1: for having me. David. I've got so many questions for 44 00:03:38,720 --> 00:03:42,400 Speaker 1: you about where's your practice, how did you get into 45 00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:44,600 Speaker 1: the practice, how long have you been in the practice. 46 00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:47,320 Speaker 1: But first I want to start with the discovery of 47 00:03:47,480 --> 00:03:54,200 Speaker 1: Lucas Hernandez. How did you get connected to Emily Glass? 48 00:03:54,240 --> 00:03:57,880 Speaker 1: To start with, That's Lucas's stepmother, the last person we 49 00:03:57,960 --> 00:04:01,080 Speaker 1: know of to see him alive. Before I went up there, 50 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:03,840 Speaker 1: I pretty much had it in my head how I 51 00:04:03,920 --> 00:04:06,360 Speaker 1: was gonna do it, how I was gonna solve it, 52 00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:09,360 Speaker 1: Who did it? The whold on in yours? But like 53 00:04:09,440 --> 00:04:14,600 Speaker 1: I told you, Daddy, Johnathan Hernandez, I said, you're my suspect, 54 00:04:14,880 --> 00:04:19,760 Speaker 1: and she's my suspect. There's no other person. He told 55 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:24,880 Speaker 1: me his his life was open book. And I asked him, 56 00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:26,760 Speaker 1: you know what did he think the trial was gonna 57 00:04:26,760 --> 00:04:31,440 Speaker 1: happen with her on trial? Was she gonna be not guilty? What? 58 00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:34,960 Speaker 1: What was what was the favorability of that, and he 59 00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:39,880 Speaker 1: said that he feels like she'll be not guilty, and 60 00:04:39,920 --> 00:04:42,480 Speaker 1: I told him, I said, either way, when I come 61 00:04:42,560 --> 00:04:44,880 Speaker 1: up there, I can interview her in the jail, but 62 00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:47,880 Speaker 1: it's gonna be harder, or I can interview her when 63 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:55,920 Speaker 1: she's out. Luckily she was out, and ah, I decided 64 00:04:55,960 --> 00:05:01,359 Speaker 1: to go up there, and after talking to Mr Hernandez 65 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:05,039 Speaker 1: for about thirty forty minutes, I knew right then he 66 00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:08,880 Speaker 1: had nothing to do with it. He might have known 67 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:13,000 Speaker 1: about abuse and stuff or hard questions, questionable, doubt no, 68 00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:17,800 Speaker 1: but he never showed that to me. So my next 69 00:05:17,880 --> 00:05:20,799 Speaker 1: thing was I wanted Emily Glass. I wanted to see 70 00:05:20,839 --> 00:05:24,400 Speaker 1: her and I had to physically see her in person, 71 00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:28,280 Speaker 1: to see her body language and how she reacted. David Marshburn, 72 00:05:28,480 --> 00:05:31,960 Speaker 1: I got a question for you. Um, I've said that 73 00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:34,800 Speaker 1: so many times when investigating a trial that I would 74 00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:37,400 Speaker 1: be trying, I need to talk to them in person. 75 00:05:37,960 --> 00:05:41,039 Speaker 1: That's so important. Let me ask you a question. When 76 00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:46,000 Speaker 1: you first spoke to Lucas Hernandez Dad, his biological father, 77 00:05:46,360 --> 00:05:49,359 Speaker 1: who was out of town like two or three weeks 78 00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:52,359 Speaker 1: at a time working with an oil company when Lucas 79 00:05:52,400 --> 00:05:55,600 Speaker 1: went missing, how does you know after speaking with him 80 00:05:55,839 --> 00:05:59,520 Speaker 1: that he was not involved in Lucas's disappearance. It was 81 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:03,000 Speaker 1: his leaner. He would look at me when I talked 82 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:06,599 Speaker 1: to him. He would answer questions right away. He wouldn't 83 00:06:06,640 --> 00:06:10,000 Speaker 1: double asked like I'd ask the question. He'd repeat it 84 00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:12,960 Speaker 1: back to me to give him time to think about responding. 85 00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:17,400 Speaker 1: That was one big issue. And also he never crossed 86 00:06:17,440 --> 00:06:21,480 Speaker 1: his arms. He never kept his legs right together like 87 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:26,800 Speaker 1: he was holding onto something. His body language told basically, 88 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:34,080 Speaker 1: I'm open, I'm not trying to guard anything, and his 89 00:06:34,200 --> 00:06:38,359 Speaker 1: exact words were, if you I'm sticking by her, but 90 00:06:38,480 --> 00:06:44,160 Speaker 1: if you find otherwise, I'm done. You know, So when 91 00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:48,560 Speaker 1: you first saw her, what happened When I first went 92 00:06:48,640 --> 00:06:51,279 Speaker 1: up to her. I used one of my I used 93 00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:55,040 Speaker 1: this technique when I sold colors, and I turned it 94 00:06:55,080 --> 00:07:00,640 Speaker 1: into a investigation tool instead. What I did, yeah, I 95 00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:04,160 Speaker 1: used step three first because I didn't have much time. 96 00:07:04,200 --> 00:07:08,120 Speaker 1: I was out of state, twenty miles twenty hours away, 97 00:07:08,400 --> 00:07:13,040 Speaker 1: and basically I went at her as I know you 98 00:07:13,080 --> 00:07:16,800 Speaker 1: did it. I'm here, I can help you. What can 99 00:07:16,840 --> 00:07:19,440 Speaker 1: I do for you? Because most of the time, with 100 00:07:19,520 --> 00:07:22,119 Speaker 1: somebody commits a crime, it's not about what they did 101 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:26,360 Speaker 1: and in her case, what she did to Lucas or anything. 102 00:07:26,680 --> 00:07:32,560 Speaker 1: What was her demeanor? Um? Cold, man, I was not 103 00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:35,840 Speaker 1: expecting that. Hold on just a moment, let me just 104 00:07:36,360 --> 00:07:39,120 Speaker 1: let me just take that in for a minute with me. 105 00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:44,960 Speaker 1: In addition to now renowned private investigator David marshburne who 106 00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:51,480 Speaker 1: actually leads police to missing five year old Lucas, Kim 107 00:07:51,560 --> 00:07:54,800 Speaker 1: Martin with Missing Pieces Network who has been on the 108 00:07:54,920 --> 00:07:59,840 Speaker 1: Lucas disappearance from the beginning, Ashley Wilcott, juvenile judge and lawyer, 109 00:08:00,200 --> 00:08:04,440 Speaker 1: founder of child crime watch dot com and Vincent Hild 110 00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:10,320 Speaker 1: private investigator Crime Aline reporter Lee Egan Ashley, I didn't 111 00:08:10,320 --> 00:08:13,840 Speaker 1: really know what to expect when I asked him, David 112 00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:18,000 Speaker 1: marshburn the question, what was Emily Glass is a stepma's demeanor? 113 00:08:18,560 --> 00:08:20,680 Speaker 1: But I didn't really think that was going to be 114 00:08:20,760 --> 00:08:24,400 Speaker 1: his answer. Cold, just cold? Isn't that something? So this 115 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:27,600 Speaker 1: says a lot about where she is timing wise to write. So, 116 00:08:27,680 --> 00:08:31,200 Speaker 1: if someone commits a crime or has done something that 117 00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:35,920 Speaker 1: they shouldn't have or hurt a child, often initially defensive, defensive, defensive, 118 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:38,920 Speaker 1: I didn't do anything, and they're not cold, and everything's fine. 119 00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:41,240 Speaker 1: And then as time goes on, and the remorse and 120 00:08:41,280 --> 00:08:43,320 Speaker 1: the guilt and all of those things start to eat 121 00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:45,960 Speaker 1: inside them. You can see their demeanor change. But I 122 00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:48,680 Speaker 1: will tell you this fancy and my experience, that demeanor 123 00:08:49,040 --> 00:08:52,760 Speaker 1: speaks volumes about her involvement in this. David marshbur And 124 00:08:52,840 --> 00:08:54,560 Speaker 1: go ahead. Said you sit down with her and you 125 00:08:54,600 --> 00:08:57,240 Speaker 1: say she's just cold. You said she was out not 126 00:08:57,440 --> 00:09:00,840 Speaker 1: behind bars at that time. Where did y'all mean? And 127 00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:03,440 Speaker 1: when you say she was cold, what do you mean 128 00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:05,720 Speaker 1: by that? Exactly? So I can get it in my mind. 129 00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:09,719 Speaker 1: We met her at her aunt's house, and when I 130 00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:14,480 Speaker 1: first approached her, she I reached out my hand to 131 00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:19,640 Speaker 1: shake her hand, but she wanted to hug me right there. 132 00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:24,200 Speaker 1: But no smile, no nothing. She wanted to just hug me, 133 00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:28,280 Speaker 1: And I felt like that was to say thank you, 134 00:09:28,280 --> 00:09:31,280 Speaker 1: you're gonna help me get out of trouble. It wasn't 135 00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:33,320 Speaker 1: anything else, because that's the way I set it up. 136 00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:36,800 Speaker 1: Before I even come up there, I told her I 137 00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:40,360 Speaker 1: wanted to sit down and talk with her. So she 138 00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:46,200 Speaker 1: kept her sunglasses on, kept her arms crossed. I didn't 139 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:53,640 Speaker 1: say anything but sure answers and um. Basically, no emotion, 140 00:09:54,080 --> 00:09:59,280 Speaker 1: not one time. I was accusing her, and at first 141 00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:06,920 Speaker 1: she her head note but never said note. Then she um, 142 00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:09,760 Speaker 1: I had to revert back to step one, two and three. 143 00:10:09,880 --> 00:10:12,040 Speaker 1: I know it doesn't make sense to you guys, but 144 00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:14,959 Speaker 1: I can explain off the air how I did that. 145 00:10:16,360 --> 00:10:19,760 Speaker 1: But I had to go back to step one, two 146 00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:24,680 Speaker 1: and three. And then the next three hours after that, 147 00:10:24,960 --> 00:10:28,599 Speaker 1: still arms crossed, not saying nothing, not looking me in, 148 00:10:28,720 --> 00:10:33,160 Speaker 1: I keeping her sunglasses on, not crying. But when she 149 00:10:33,320 --> 00:10:37,559 Speaker 1: acts like she's crying, there's no tears. And when I 150 00:10:37,640 --> 00:10:42,240 Speaker 1: tell her in seven months they can issue a death 151 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:46,040 Speaker 1: certificate and they're coming for you. That's the only time 152 00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:52,000 Speaker 1: she showed emotions. Only time. Wow, Kim Martin was missing 153 00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:56,880 Speaker 1: pieces of network. Are you surprised, if honestly staggering to 154 00:10:56,960 --> 00:10:59,800 Speaker 1: hear him say this? Um, I can't say that. I'm 155 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:04,440 Speaker 1: very surprised because I've heard other people say that in 156 00:11:04,480 --> 00:11:09,360 Speaker 1: different situations. She's very unemotional about the whole thing, you know, 157 00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:12,839 Speaker 1: not like a parent of a missing child or a 158 00:11:12,880 --> 00:11:15,080 Speaker 1: step hearing of a missing child would usually act. But 159 00:11:15,800 --> 00:11:18,360 Speaker 1: to this extent that is surprising to me. So what 160 00:11:18,440 --> 00:11:22,640 Speaker 1: happened then, David Marshburn's well, by the time our conversation 161 00:11:22,760 --> 00:11:25,440 Speaker 1: was ended. I had enough to be able to go 162 00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:30,360 Speaker 1: to law enforcement, and they would have had enough two 163 00:11:30,920 --> 00:11:34,679 Speaker 1: pressure her enough and lock her up for the disappearance 164 00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:40,200 Speaker 1: of Lucas. And I couldn't do that to her or 165 00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:43,840 Speaker 1: do that to Lucas, because if they came at her 166 00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:47,040 Speaker 1: the wrong way, she would never have to give it up. 167 00:11:47,559 --> 00:11:49,760 Speaker 1: Never had. They could arrest her and they could lock 168 00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:52,640 Speaker 1: her up for it, but they would not be able 169 00:11:52,679 --> 00:11:55,280 Speaker 1: to Lucas. Was my main concern. That's all I was 170 00:11:55,320 --> 00:11:58,600 Speaker 1: there for. It wasn't what happened, how it happened. It 171 00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:05,599 Speaker 1: was Lucas. So she wanted to wait till the next day. 172 00:12:06,200 --> 00:12:09,600 Speaker 1: She had a lot to think about and digest. Is 173 00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:13,320 Speaker 1: her exact roots? So you actually told her that they 174 00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:16,440 Speaker 1: were going to come for her with a death warrant, 175 00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:20,880 Speaker 1: they would after seven months. I use other things in 176 00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:25,600 Speaker 1: other cases from other states to make a complete case. 177 00:12:25,640 --> 00:12:31,439 Speaker 1: I'll study Kansas's longs and basically that way, if anybody 178 00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:34,880 Speaker 1: ever you know, thanks on the line, I can look 179 00:12:34,880 --> 00:12:36,400 Speaker 1: it up right there in front of them and show 180 00:12:36,440 --> 00:12:40,000 Speaker 1: them on Google. Hey, after seven months, they can issue 181 00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:43,040 Speaker 1: a death certifically. Okay, how did you finally get her 182 00:12:43,240 --> 00:12:48,640 Speaker 1: David Marshburne to take you to Lucas's body. Well, the 183 00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:52,320 Speaker 1: thing about it is there there's a homeless guy involved 184 00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:57,360 Speaker 1: in this. And the homeless guy was sort of like 185 00:12:58,640 --> 00:13:02,120 Speaker 1: something after she out rid of Lucas too through law 186 00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:07,560 Speaker 1: enforcement off saying it was a homeless guy, and she 187 00:13:07,640 --> 00:13:11,440 Speaker 1: invited him into her home and spent the night in 188 00:13:11,559 --> 00:13:18,120 Speaker 1: her home and she while Jonathan was there, I asked 189 00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:20,640 Speaker 1: Jonathan to leave and go get in the truck so 190 00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:24,640 Speaker 1: I could talk to her alone. And at that time 191 00:13:26,080 --> 00:13:32,040 Speaker 1: I told her was their drugs involved? And she first 192 00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:35,600 Speaker 1: said no. And I said, look, Emily, if they do 193 00:13:35,679 --> 00:13:40,000 Speaker 1: a hair follical test on you and you did mess, 194 00:13:40,200 --> 00:13:43,600 Speaker 1: I promise you you're you're going to be in even 195 00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:48,400 Speaker 1: worse trouble. And she admitted she did mess. Now keep 196 00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:51,280 Speaker 1: in mind her little girl, Lucas was in the house. 197 00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:55,520 Speaker 1: Let me ask a question to private investigator Vincent Hill. 198 00:13:55,800 --> 00:14:00,840 Speaker 1: When you add in drugs to a scenario, that changes everything, 199 00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:04,959 Speaker 1: Because it's like Alice in Wonderland, everything you know is 200 00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:07,920 Speaker 1: upside down. People don't think or at the same way. 201 00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:10,480 Speaker 1: I mean, think about it. Who is gonna go when 202 00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:14,679 Speaker 1: you have children bring a homeless guy into your home 203 00:14:15,280 --> 00:14:18,520 Speaker 1: to spend the night. I mean, I go work at 204 00:14:18,520 --> 00:14:21,560 Speaker 1: a homeless center, I give money, I try to help, 205 00:14:21,920 --> 00:14:24,800 Speaker 1: but I'm not going to bring anybody I don't know 206 00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:30,240 Speaker 1: into the home where my twins are period Nancy. So 207 00:14:30,480 --> 00:14:33,720 Speaker 1: everything is topsy turvy once drugs are in the scenario 208 00:14:33,920 --> 00:14:36,920 Speaker 1: in the equation, Vincent, absolutely, especially when you're dealing with 209 00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:40,200 Speaker 1: the narcotic like meth amphetamine, which you know is very 210 00:14:40,200 --> 00:14:44,000 Speaker 1: addictive and very uh mine altering. And you know, it 211 00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:46,440 Speaker 1: actually makes me wonder if she didn't bring this guy 212 00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:48,880 Speaker 1: to the home to set him up later. You know, 213 00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:51,240 Speaker 1: his DNA would have been all over the house, his 214 00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:54,520 Speaker 1: fingerprints probably all over the house. He was unsuspecting of this, 215 00:14:54,680 --> 00:14:56,560 Speaker 1: but she could have came back and said, well he 216 00:14:56,640 --> 00:14:59,200 Speaker 1: did it. He's the one that took Lucas. And that's 217 00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:02,720 Speaker 1: a really good thought. Do you think that could be true, 218 00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:06,440 Speaker 1: David Marshburn, that she picks us some homeless guy, brings 219 00:15:06,520 --> 00:15:09,040 Speaker 1: him home to spend the night in her home so 220 00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:12,440 Speaker 1: she could blame him. That's exactly what she did. And 221 00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:17,040 Speaker 1: you know it gets better than that, because have they 222 00:15:17,080 --> 00:15:20,760 Speaker 1: found the homeless guy? Get this, they questioned him. He 223 00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:26,640 Speaker 1: never saw Lucas in the house, but just weeks later 224 00:15:27,040 --> 00:15:31,840 Speaker 1: he commits suicide. Holy moly, Nancy. Police have ruled that 225 00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:35,200 Speaker 1: the death of the homeless man was a hit and run. 226 00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:39,120 Speaker 1: Is that not a twist of in itself? But Emily 227 00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:43,360 Speaker 1: never knew and when she when she got out, she 228 00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:47,840 Speaker 1: still did not notice. So that played in my favor 229 00:15:48,320 --> 00:15:50,640 Speaker 1: for her not to notice, so she was planning to 230 00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:55,160 Speaker 1: blame him. Man, this could not have more twist. Guys 231 00:15:55,360 --> 00:16:02,000 Speaker 1: with me the private investigator David Marshburne who actually locates 232 00:16:03,520 --> 00:16:09,680 Speaker 1: little Lucas her Nandez's body. In our next episode, you'll 233 00:16:09,720 --> 00:16:14,160 Speaker 1: write along with private investigator David Marshburne as Lucas's stepmom 234 00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:19,320 Speaker 1: Emily Glass leads him to where she hid the child's body. 235 00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:27,000 Speaker 1: I did. That's in the next Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. 236 00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:33,440 Speaker 1: Did you know about a recent law that could leave 237 00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:38,360 Speaker 1: your personal data exposed online for anybody to find? If 238 00:16:38,360 --> 00:16:41,080 Speaker 1: you've turned on the news lately, you know the Internet 239 00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:46,280 Speaker 1: has created a dangerous new world. 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You 256 00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:47,520 Speaker 1: must understand that police are bound by certain rules of procedure. 257 00:17:49,119 --> 00:17:54,320 Speaker 1: Private citizens do not fall under those rules, and um, 258 00:17:54,359 --> 00:17:57,240 Speaker 1: you know, it's a different, different type of world for 259 00:17:57,280 --> 00:17:59,280 Speaker 1: them and what they may do and what they may 260 00:17:59,359 --> 00:18:03,240 Speaker 1: jason to us to do from what police are bound by. 261 00:18:03,560 --> 00:18:08,000 Speaker 1: That's simple rules of procedure, rules of police procedure. That 262 00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:11,760 Speaker 1: police are bound by very strict rules. Well, you see 263 00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:16,040 Speaker 1: it every day at the courthouse. Police conduce certain things, um, 264 00:18:16,160 --> 00:18:19,320 Speaker 1: non police, non people that aren't in police role, law 265 00:18:19,359 --> 00:18:25,800 Speaker 1: enforcement roll or or government uh agents. We're required by 266 00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:29,000 Speaker 1: certain things and those that aren't don't fall into those guidelines. 267 00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:32,080 Speaker 1: And joining me right now, the man, the private investigator 268 00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:38,320 Speaker 1: who actually discovered little Lucas's body, lad there. Somehow like 269 00:18:38,359 --> 00:18:42,119 Speaker 1: a snake charmer. He gets the stepmother, Emily Glass to 270 00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:46,639 Speaker 1: lead him to Lucas's remains. Also with me, Crime Online 271 00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:51,760 Speaker 1: reporter Lee Egan, Vincent Hill, private investigator Ashley Willcott, juvenile 272 00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:55,119 Speaker 1: judge and founder of child Crime watch dot com, Kim 273 00:18:55,280 --> 00:18:57,960 Speaker 1: Martin with Missing Pieces Network. He's been on the case 274 00:18:57,960 --> 00:19:00,600 Speaker 1: from the beginning. Guys, I know all I have questions 275 00:19:00,640 --> 00:19:03,520 Speaker 1: for David Marshburn, all right. I have been wanted to 276 00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:07,040 Speaker 1: talk to him since I found out he existed. David Marshburn, 277 00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:10,879 Speaker 1: We're gonna circle back to Emily Glass and how you 278 00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:13,760 Speaker 1: carried her to the location and what she was saying 279 00:19:13,760 --> 00:19:17,560 Speaker 1: in the card. I want to hear every single detail, 280 00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:20,840 Speaker 1: but right now I want to hear about the discovery 281 00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:25,320 Speaker 1: of little Lucas. I feel like we have been looking 282 00:19:25,359 --> 00:19:28,400 Speaker 1: for him and thinking about him and praying for him 283 00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:33,359 Speaker 1: for so long. Well, we couldn't exactly get to the 284 00:19:33,359 --> 00:19:39,199 Speaker 1: exact location. Excuse me. When you go from winter the summer, 285 00:19:39,640 --> 00:19:44,000 Speaker 1: things changed that the landscape is different. So it took 286 00:19:44,119 --> 00:19:48,679 Speaker 1: us about four hours or so to ride around down 287 00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:53,520 Speaker 1: each dirt path, and you know, for her to say 288 00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:56,639 Speaker 1: she gave us little clues here and there, and a 289 00:19:56,640 --> 00:19:58,680 Speaker 1: lot of times people that have done a crime like 290 00:19:58,920 --> 00:20:01,719 Speaker 1: this they remember, they just don't want to tell you 291 00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:07,120 Speaker 1: exactly because it even makes them feel even worse. So 292 00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:10,000 Speaker 1: we wound up. I'm getting ticked off at the point. 293 00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:13,800 Speaker 1: So basically I said, we're gonna start every bridge right 294 00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:17,240 Speaker 1: here and then go down the line. I pull up, 295 00:20:17,880 --> 00:20:20,560 Speaker 1: I get out the very first bridge I get to, 296 00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:23,840 Speaker 1: i'd lay down on the ground and I peep my 297 00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:28,960 Speaker 1: head underneath, and there I see the top of Lucas's head, 298 00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:35,520 Speaker 1: and then I see all these branches all on top, 299 00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:39,000 Speaker 1: and I'm like, I hope this is what I think 300 00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:43,040 Speaker 1: it is, so it will be over. I get up 301 00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:46,840 Speaker 1: and I go down to the bridge, and already to crime, 302 00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:51,280 Speaker 1: the crime scenes washed away. There's nothing there except for 303 00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:54,880 Speaker 1: him and what's near him, on top of him and all. 304 00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:58,520 Speaker 1: So I didn't touch anything like that. But I went 305 00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:01,439 Speaker 1: down and I was then a foot from and and 306 00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:03,919 Speaker 1: I was looking to make sure it was what I 307 00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:09,880 Speaker 1: thought it was. And sure enough, So let me understand, 308 00:21:10,119 --> 00:21:14,320 Speaker 1: it's Lucas's body. The five year old little boy's body 309 00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:19,520 Speaker 1: was under a bridge. It is it's um. It's underneath 310 00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:23,439 Speaker 1: the bridge, just laying there exactly the way she described 311 00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:27,200 Speaker 1: She put him was closed. There was there was clothes 312 00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:30,200 Speaker 1: on him. What went through your mind when you saw 313 00:21:30,520 --> 00:21:34,200 Speaker 1: his remains there? Well, this case, since it was only 314 00:21:35,119 --> 00:21:38,320 Speaker 1: you know, eleven hours into it, I didn't have much 315 00:21:38,359 --> 00:21:42,840 Speaker 1: time into it, so my heart wasn't attached to the 316 00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:45,560 Speaker 1: family and Lucas like it normally is in a case 317 00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:49,960 Speaker 1: that last a year or two. I've I've come up 318 00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:53,840 Speaker 1: on several bodies in the past six years i've been 319 00:21:53,880 --> 00:22:00,479 Speaker 1: doing this. You know, we have discovered five bodies. We've 320 00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:03,760 Speaker 1: done We've closed several cases, but some of them were 321 00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:09,800 Speaker 1: without it and by it only being an eleven eleven 322 00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:15,040 Speaker 1: hours into it, and there was not a lot there 323 00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:20,520 Speaker 1: For me too, it wasn't it was badly decomposed. So 324 00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:26,080 Speaker 1: basically it was a feeling of relief that we could 325 00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:28,560 Speaker 1: do it this quickly for the daddy. I was thinking 326 00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:31,359 Speaker 1: more about the town and the daddy and the great 327 00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:38,600 Speaker 1: grandmother and everyone, but Emily. I could kid too. Excuse 328 00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:41,800 Speaker 1: me about Emily, Well, was she with you at the 329 00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:44,520 Speaker 1: moment you saw his body? She stayed in the car. 330 00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:49,040 Speaker 1: And then when I finally realized it was him, I 331 00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:52,320 Speaker 1: was calling law enforcement to let him know where I'm at. 332 00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:57,880 Speaker 1: And then I got my partner, Marsha Ward, and told her, 333 00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:01,159 Speaker 1: how about going down there? See if you see what 334 00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:03,679 Speaker 1: I said, it might be him. But I don't know. 335 00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:07,679 Speaker 1: I'm playing it off so Emily, basically I'm watching what 336 00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:13,640 Speaker 1: she's doing. Um, I don't have what she did to him, 337 00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:16,800 Speaker 1: so at least what I would get is her emotion. 338 00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:19,880 Speaker 1: So if I had to testify, I could tell them 339 00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:23,240 Speaker 1: what I saw and what went on. So Marcia goes 340 00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:32,680 Speaker 1: down there, comes back up. She agrees. Then Emily says, uh, 341 00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:35,040 Speaker 1: you know, I don't think this is it. That's that's 342 00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:39,560 Speaker 1: not him. And finally I told her, I said, Emily, 343 00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:49,240 Speaker 1: it's him, all right? Nothing, no cry, no nothing. And 344 00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:52,959 Speaker 1: then a few seconds later, she has a tissue up 345 00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:56,280 Speaker 1: to her face. I thought, a whole box of tissues. Okay, 346 00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:03,280 Speaker 1: She pulled one tissue out of the whole big box 347 00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:06,280 Speaker 1: and that's all she used the whole time we were there. 348 00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:12,760 Speaker 1: One tissue, wow, and that was just to get her 349 00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:16,240 Speaker 1: nose clean, not to wipe away those teas because there 350 00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:21,159 Speaker 1: wasn't it. When you came and told her that you 351 00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:24,960 Speaker 1: found him as she waited in the car, what did 352 00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:29,399 Speaker 1: she say? She made the statement, and of course I 353 00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:33,439 Speaker 1: recorded it. She made the statement, I did Lucas so wrong, 354 00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:40,840 Speaker 1: and every one of those statements are going to be 355 00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:46,879 Speaker 1: so significant at trial with me Crime Online investigative reporter 356 00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:50,640 Speaker 1: Lee Egan, Lee, what's your question for David? David? How 357 00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:52,560 Speaker 1: long did it take you? You said you spoke to 358 00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:55,640 Speaker 1: for hours and she had to sleep on it. Um. 359 00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:58,400 Speaker 1: How long was it afterwards that she was up and 360 00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:03,320 Speaker 1: ready and willing to take you to find Lucas? And 361 00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:04,880 Speaker 1: was it right away or did you have to kind 362 00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:11,600 Speaker 1: of convent convent her again? I text her around eleven 363 00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:16,359 Speaker 1: thirty and told her, Hey, are you up or you 364 00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:19,840 Speaker 1: are you ready? Because we're chomping at the bit. We 365 00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:22,159 Speaker 1: have been out till four in the morning that morning 366 00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:26,280 Speaker 1: with one of the local search groups to get an 367 00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:29,200 Speaker 1: idea of the layout of the land out there. So 368 00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:31,760 Speaker 1: that way, when she when we were riding her around. 369 00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:35,479 Speaker 1: We didn't know she was gonna come out and tell us, 370 00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:38,240 Speaker 1: uh the next day. We thought it might be a 371 00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:40,920 Speaker 1: little more coaching, So we were going to ride around 372 00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:46,760 Speaker 1: in the areas where valuable information came in about her 373 00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:51,280 Speaker 1: phone information. So we were going to ride around in 374 00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:54,760 Speaker 1: that same area to see what her body language was 375 00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:58,040 Speaker 1: and see if she would be looking so that way, 376 00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:00,879 Speaker 1: if she didn't tell us, we could ask finding based 377 00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:03,240 Speaker 1: on for that. So I had a backup plan of 378 00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:05,879 Speaker 1: a backup plan. Okay, hold on, let me let me 379 00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:09,080 Speaker 1: ask something. Right there, David Marshburne is with us, the 380 00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:16,919 Speaker 1: private investigator who actually somehow convinces little Lucas's stepmother to 381 00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:22,040 Speaker 1: go out looking for the child. They find Little Lucas's 382 00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:27,719 Speaker 1: dead body washed away kind of under a bridge, David 383 00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:32,040 Speaker 1: marshburn David, you were just describing how you're going to 384 00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:36,479 Speaker 1: use her phone records against her, in a sense that 385 00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:39,639 Speaker 1: you were saying, let's go drive around where your phone was. 386 00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:42,320 Speaker 1: What did you know of her phone records when you 387 00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:45,200 Speaker 1: took her out driving around? I knew that she had 388 00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:50,720 Speaker 1: gone down Norwood, and within fifty eight minutes she went 389 00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:56,440 Speaker 1: down Norwood and then in Norwood turns from pavement the 390 00:26:56,480 --> 00:27:01,240 Speaker 1: gravel and then she came back on Oliver which comes 391 00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:05,960 Speaker 1: from gravel to pay, did a whole big circle and 392 00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:10,520 Speaker 1: in fifty eight minutes, within two minutes, two minutes of that, 393 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:17,200 Speaker 1: her car sat steel. So that's that's where I'm thinking, Okay, 394 00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:20,439 Speaker 1: that's where she's dropping off Lucas. So that that's the case. 395 00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:24,280 Speaker 1: She didn't bury him. He's gonna top the ground, but 396 00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:29,240 Speaker 1: he's hidden. And as I got talking to her, what 397 00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:32,679 Speaker 1: was she admitted? Because when when we stopped at her 398 00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:35,879 Speaker 1: house that morning. The next morning, she got in the car, 399 00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:39,760 Speaker 1: and when I got to the convenience store, which is 400 00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:43,320 Speaker 1: only two minutes from the house, that's when she said. 401 00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:48,399 Speaker 1: She actually came out of her mouth and said, I 402 00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:52,800 Speaker 1: went in his room and he was dead. And at 403 00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:57,119 Speaker 1: that point in time, you know, I'm just like wow. 404 00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:01,439 Speaker 1: I didn't expect it to pop out that quickly. So 405 00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:05,199 Speaker 1: I knew I had her by everything. I knew it 406 00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:07,800 Speaker 1: didn't matter. We're not stopping. This is it. She's going 407 00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:09,720 Speaker 1: to give it, give it up. But when we get 408 00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:13,280 Speaker 1: out there, it just takes hours and hours of riding 409 00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:15,960 Speaker 1: and riding a matter of fact, we we went right 410 00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:20,280 Speaker 1: over Lucas probably thirty times. WHOA, so you go over 411 00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:23,840 Speaker 1: what do you mean go over Lucas By bridge or 412 00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:26,760 Speaker 1: what over? But what do you mean by the bridge? 413 00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:31,359 Speaker 1: We had? At first we had Emily. We figured, you know, 414 00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:35,960 Speaker 1: Emily was describing she she took him and put him 415 00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:40,200 Speaker 1: under a bridge, and I'm like it at north south, 416 00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:44,120 Speaker 1: like going down nord Wood or coming back down Oliver 417 00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:49,280 Speaker 1: and wait, let me understand something. So, David Marshburn, right 418 00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:51,959 Speaker 1: at this point, you're acting like you're going along with 419 00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:54,120 Speaker 1: her story that she went in his room and he 420 00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:56,480 Speaker 1: was just dead. So she goes and throws his body 421 00:28:56,520 --> 00:28:59,080 Speaker 1: under a bridge. So to get her to tell you 422 00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:01,480 Speaker 1: where he was, You're like, oh, okay, is that how 423 00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:03,960 Speaker 1: you played it? Is that how you acted? You didn't 424 00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:07,360 Speaker 1: go that didn't happen? You said, no, No, I play 425 00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:11,440 Speaker 1: it all the way. I play everything to the way 426 00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:17,240 Speaker 1: of uh. Basically, I told her that what I felt 427 00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:20,720 Speaker 1: like she was guilty of was considering a death and 428 00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:25,360 Speaker 1: consuering the death in Kansas is eighteen months probation, and 429 00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:29,120 Speaker 1: you know I gave her an out. It's what I did. 430 00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:32,040 Speaker 1: You know, I told you the three steps I do well. 431 00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:34,400 Speaker 1: Basically in those three steps, I gave her an out, 432 00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:38,360 Speaker 1: and it was an out that was not too good 433 00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:41,400 Speaker 1: to be true, but it was about that someone is 434 00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:45,960 Speaker 1: committed murder, that has killed this little boy can believe 435 00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:49,280 Speaker 1: in her mind. You have to you have to read 436 00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:51,920 Speaker 1: these people. You have to get into their psyche. And 437 00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:55,080 Speaker 1: if you don't and you read them wrong, you're done. 438 00:29:56,280 --> 00:29:59,840 Speaker 1: So you go over his body thirty times, back in 439 00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:03,000 Speaker 1: forth and back and forth at least looking and she 440 00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:07,360 Speaker 1: what had described a road that she had gone down, 441 00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:10,720 Speaker 1: and you were looking for that, you know, when you 442 00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:12,800 Speaker 1: kept going over that bridge, she knew he was down 443 00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:17,840 Speaker 1: there right. Well, no, I mean she's she's describing. She's 444 00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:21,000 Speaker 1: given us bits and pieces, and basically we had to 445 00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:24,120 Speaker 1: take those bits and pieces and put together like a 446 00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:28,920 Speaker 1: puzzle and and trying. There was only like seven roads, 447 00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:33,840 Speaker 1: short roads like two miles long, that go east to west, 448 00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:36,920 Speaker 1: because I said, did it go north south or did 449 00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:39,960 Speaker 1: it go east west? And she sat in between Norwood 450 00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:44,920 Speaker 1: or webb Web Road and Oliver Road, so that's about 451 00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:49,040 Speaker 1: a two two miles stretch in between. So there's only 452 00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:54,560 Speaker 1: seven roads that are in between. They that are dirt paths. 453 00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:57,880 Speaker 1: So we know we had seven roads, and we had 454 00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:00,400 Speaker 1: every bridge on those roads that we will we were 455 00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:05,320 Speaker 1: gonna have to check. M hm. So when you see 456 00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:07,760 Speaker 1: what you believe is the top of his head, he's 457 00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:11,240 Speaker 1: under bridge. Do you believe she thought his body would 458 00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:16,880 Speaker 1: wash away in the water. But the greatest thing of 459 00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:23,360 Speaker 1: it is, you know it had a washout pan before 460 00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:25,840 Speaker 1: it and had one of these diverters, so when the 461 00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:29,480 Speaker 1: water hit hard, it wouldn't go through there fast at all. 462 00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:32,920 Speaker 1: And and if she didn't know what it was, she 463 00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:36,680 Speaker 1: wouldn't have put him there, because it protected him. And 464 00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:39,080 Speaker 1: by her putting him out there in the open like 465 00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:43,200 Speaker 1: she did, the cold air that they had, that bad 466 00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:48,280 Speaker 1: cold spell they had at that time kind of mummified 467 00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:54,320 Speaker 1: it kept and preserved. And I believe it's preserved evidence, 468 00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:56,680 Speaker 1: which is great because I thought there was gonna be 469 00:31:56,720 --> 00:32:00,680 Speaker 1: no evidence. Guys, we are we are talking about the 470 00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:04,360 Speaker 1: body of a five year old little boy, Lucas Hernandez. 471 00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:09,800 Speaker 1: When you get back in the car and you tell her, 472 00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:15,760 Speaker 1: Emily Glass, the stepmother, that you see his body, you said, 473 00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:21,200 Speaker 1: there was very little reaction. What did she finally say? 474 00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:24,240 Speaker 1: What were her words? She made the comment, I did 475 00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:30,160 Speaker 1: Lucas so wrong? After that, it was about what's going 476 00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:35,000 Speaker 1: to happen to her, And that right there tells me 477 00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:40,280 Speaker 1: you don't get two craps about your stepson. You put 478 00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:43,240 Speaker 1: under his bridge, you abused and you killed. All you 479 00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:46,400 Speaker 1: care about is what's going to happen. Did she ever 480 00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:49,280 Speaker 1: want to see the body or go retrieve the body 481 00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:52,200 Speaker 1: or get him out from under the bridge. No? No, 482 00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:58,240 Speaker 1: she did get out of the truck. And she got 483 00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:00,360 Speaker 1: out of the truck and I said, look, I don't 484 00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:03,000 Speaker 1: I don't need you to go over here near the side. 485 00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:08,360 Speaker 1: She said, I'm not, and she hugged me like she 486 00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:13,120 Speaker 1: wanted consoling. And when she did, my partner took a 487 00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:16,200 Speaker 1: picture of it. And you can see me glaring right 488 00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:21,080 Speaker 1: at that camera because I'm not sympathetic towards her at all. 489 00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:24,920 Speaker 1: And she took a picture of us, and she's hugging 490 00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:30,200 Speaker 1: and trying to cry and can't cry. Have one tissue. 491 00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:33,000 Speaker 1: I have a box of five and didn't use but one. 492 00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:39,760 Speaker 1: I mean, if my child where somebody I loved body 493 00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:44,320 Speaker 1: was there, I would run to it somehow get to it. 494 00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:49,120 Speaker 1: I don't know why, but I would just thinking of 495 00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:55,440 Speaker 1: her using that one tissue. In the last hours, a 496 00:33:55,680 --> 00:34:01,479 Speaker 1: vigil has been held a vigil with search groups and 497 00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:11,000 Speaker 1: family members remembering Lucas Hernandez a beautiful little boy. Thanks 498 00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:14,959 Speaker 1: to this p I with us David Marshburne, we now 499 00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:19,600 Speaker 1: have Lucas's body. Listen that day, when I found out 500 00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:22,759 Speaker 1: about baby Lucas coming up missing, I went home and 501 00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:26,680 Speaker 1: I hugged off five with my kids because I can't 502 00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:29,480 Speaker 1: imagine my life without my kill. They're under they are 503 00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:33,520 Speaker 1: what made me happy. They I mean, just so. I 504 00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:36,400 Speaker 1: hugged him and kissed them and I did not let go. 505 00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:39,640 Speaker 1: You know, I just feel helpless. All these stories I've 506 00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:42,680 Speaker 1: been hearing for months about him possibly being abused, to 507 00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:46,000 Speaker 1: the investigated and had a frantic interview and all that 508 00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:48,760 Speaker 1: kind of stuff and sent them. I guess the police 509 00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:50,839 Speaker 1: didn't think they were gonna have evidence. When I first 510 00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:55,319 Speaker 1: found out he was missing, I um was suspicious and 511 00:34:55,360 --> 00:35:01,319 Speaker 1: then worried. Evidence of bruises, evidence of previous bouts with 512 00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:05,279 Speaker 1: child abuse. What was life like for this five year 513 00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:09,480 Speaker 1: old little boy trapped in the home with Emily Glass's stepmother, 514 00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:13,520 Speaker 1: the last one to see him alive. We have reports 515 00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:17,919 Speaker 1: that before Lucas goes missing, she takes her own biological 516 00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:22,920 Speaker 1: daughter out for a big lunch at olive garden, smokes 517 00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:28,320 Speaker 1: three quote bowls of marijuana and leaves Lucas at home alone, 518 00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:33,560 Speaker 1: hungry and staring out the window. Now that child's body found, 519 00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:37,279 Speaker 1: you heard the aunt raising concerns that the child had 520 00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:39,920 Speaker 1: been beaten and abused in the past while the father 521 00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:42,160 Speaker 1: would be out of town. How much did he know? 522 00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:46,040 Speaker 1: Did he turn the other way and ignored the abuse 523 00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:49,680 Speaker 1: on his own child? With me? David marshburn the probably 524 00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:55,239 Speaker 1: an investigator who managed to find Lucas her nandez remains, 525 00:35:56,120 --> 00:36:00,000 Speaker 1: Kim Martin with Missing Pieces Network, Ashley Wilcott, juvenile Joe 526 00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:03,319 Speaker 1: Us and founder of child crime watch dot com. Vincent Hill, 527 00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:08,600 Speaker 1: private investigator and crime online investigative reporter Lee Egan. David 528 00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:13,840 Speaker 1: marshburne You said that after you spot the body, through 529 00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:20,399 Speaker 1: trickery and persuasive conversation, you get her to show you 530 00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:23,800 Speaker 1: where his body is. And it took hours going down 531 00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:27,080 Speaker 1: this road that road, until finally you get out and 532 00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:29,680 Speaker 1: you spot what you think is the top of little 533 00:36:29,719 --> 00:36:36,839 Speaker 1: Lucas's head. What shape is his body in? Now? He 534 00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:45,120 Speaker 1: was badly decomposed when I when when I saw him, 535 00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:49,279 Speaker 1: when I laid down and looked under the bridge. When 536 00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:54,200 Speaker 1: I saw him, you couldn't tell it was my body. 537 00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:57,759 Speaker 1: It was hard, but I know when I saw the 538 00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:01,640 Speaker 1: top of his head, it looked like the top of 539 00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:03,800 Speaker 1: his head. But you know, you have to make sure, 540 00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:06,560 Speaker 1: so I want to get down and get closer. And 541 00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:09,719 Speaker 1: I know that sounds sick, but you want to make 542 00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:12,719 Speaker 1: sure you don't miss it. But other than that, you 543 00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:15,919 Speaker 1: couldn't really see a whole lot until you do get 544 00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:17,960 Speaker 1: down in there. You have to get down in and 545 00:37:18,040 --> 00:37:20,600 Speaker 1: buy them. And there's still some water down in there. 546 00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:24,719 Speaker 1: A good thing for that barrier. It flows the water 547 00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:27,239 Speaker 1: down instead of making it letting it rest for it. 548 00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:29,480 Speaker 1: When you say you thought you saw the top of 549 00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:35,320 Speaker 1: his head, could you see his hair? I did, and 550 00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:37,560 Speaker 1: you couldn't really tell. Was the rest of his body 551 00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:42,040 Speaker 1: under sand or debris? And it was all under debris. 552 00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:46,880 Speaker 1: And and see his hair was was bleached white, so 553 00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:50,799 Speaker 1: it didn't look like dark here, So it was kind 554 00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:55,080 Speaker 1: of hard. Why was his hair bleached white? In where 555 00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:58,600 Speaker 1: he was? The sunlight could get through between the trees 556 00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:04,560 Speaker 1: straight to the bridge. If anybody cut the grass over 557 00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:08,040 Speaker 1: there in the pasture, they could have very easily looked 558 00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:11,600 Speaker 1: over and saw it. When you get down there and 559 00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:14,239 Speaker 1: go through the water what there is of it, and 560 00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:17,800 Speaker 1: you see his body and realize you're right, that's Lucas. 561 00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:22,359 Speaker 1: What went through your mind? I mean, it's kind of 562 00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:28,160 Speaker 1: a shocking pint deal. It's it's kind of it's kind 563 00:38:28,160 --> 00:38:30,040 Speaker 1: of like you get in the zone and you're in 564 00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:35,200 Speaker 1: a tunnel and and you just you just don't. The 565 00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:37,440 Speaker 1: only thing you know what to do is called law enforcement. 566 00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:42,360 Speaker 1: Get him there and basically get her away from us. 567 00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:46,320 Speaker 1: Because my partner was starting to feel strong emotions because 568 00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:51,480 Speaker 1: she has a five year old nephew. My own emotions 569 00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:54,319 Speaker 1: were coming, and they came after she was out of 570 00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:57,879 Speaker 1: my vehicle and out of my side. I've realized what 571 00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:02,239 Speaker 1: we had accomplished and done, which it sounds weird because 572 00:39:02,239 --> 00:39:04,360 Speaker 1: that's what I was supposed to do, But when you 573 00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:08,040 Speaker 1: actually do it, it's like wow. You know, it probably 574 00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:12,200 Speaker 1: felt surreal when you were climbing back up that side 575 00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:16,120 Speaker 1: of that. I want the I guess you call it 576 00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:19,480 Speaker 1: a river or creek and you see her and you 577 00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:22,640 Speaker 1: locked eyes with her. What expression did she have the 578 00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:25,840 Speaker 1: same expression she's had the whole time, cold and cowish, 579 00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:30,240 Speaker 1: No no emotion. I mean, it was just like staring 580 00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:34,360 Speaker 1: at a photo copy of her face as as in 581 00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:37,720 Speaker 1: her mud shot. That's how that's her demeanor, the whole 582 00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:42,120 Speaker 1: entire type. Kim Martin was missing pieces of network. What's 583 00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:46,000 Speaker 1: your question, David read a lot of speculation and I 584 00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:49,160 Speaker 1: knew it. It's been a lot of questions question on 585 00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:53,040 Speaker 1: everyone's mind. Do you think that was the original place 586 00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:55,719 Speaker 1: that he was that she put him or do you 587 00:39:55,719 --> 00:39:59,320 Speaker 1: think the body was moved? It was the original place? 588 00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:03,919 Speaker 1: It matched is up the timeline. She never veered off 589 00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:07,880 Speaker 1: of anything far as the the little clues she gave. 590 00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:12,520 Speaker 1: And when you look at his his where his body 591 00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:17,640 Speaker 1: was the water, his head was towards where the water 592 00:40:17,719 --> 00:40:20,960 Speaker 1: comes into the bridge. So if there was heavy rains 593 00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:25,239 Speaker 1: and stuff, we know he didn't move because everything was 594 00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:33,040 Speaker 1: still in Everything was still in a in a I 595 00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:37,600 Speaker 1: sayd sigh in a direction just like if I I 596 00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:39,959 Speaker 1: go in my mind and I pictured did he move 597 00:40:40,120 --> 00:40:46,120 Speaker 1: or anything? And basically the way she described it, that's 598 00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:49,160 Speaker 1: the way his remains were when when they were there, 599 00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:53,839 Speaker 1: it never moved, water didn't move in David Marshburn, did 600 00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:57,799 Speaker 1: you ever glean from her or figure out in any 601 00:40:57,800 --> 00:41:01,759 Speaker 1: way what really happened to Luca. How was he killed? Oh? 602 00:41:02,040 --> 00:41:05,000 Speaker 1: I know, I know how. I've got my own opinion, 603 00:41:05,239 --> 00:41:10,440 Speaker 1: and I will I'll share that. It's just my opinion. 604 00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:14,640 Speaker 1: But see, she had two other boys with another another man, 605 00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:20,320 Speaker 1: and I think she resented Lucas because of she couldn't 606 00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:23,000 Speaker 1: have her own boys, and she resented the fact that 607 00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:28,800 Speaker 1: the man she's with now has Lucas. And she resented 608 00:41:29,080 --> 00:41:34,719 Speaker 1: Lucas's mother. And I think when she got irritated, when 609 00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:38,120 Speaker 1: she started thinking about it, she just abused him. She 610 00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:42,880 Speaker 1: took it out on him because of her failures. And 611 00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:47,960 Speaker 1: that's why, I mean, oh god, h Now I started 612 00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:51,240 Speaker 1: getting passionate. What does the father have to say about 613 00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:53,680 Speaker 1: all this? He didn't know what to do. He said, Man, 614 00:41:53,719 --> 00:41:56,240 Speaker 1: I don't know if I'm a faint. Oh my god, 615 00:41:57,200 --> 00:42:00,960 Speaker 1: are you sure you found Lucas. I said, we found Lucas. 616 00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:04,120 Speaker 1: I think you need to come home. And I told 617 00:42:04,200 --> 00:42:07,360 Speaker 1: law enforcement that I contacted Daddy and told him we 618 00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:10,960 Speaker 1: found him, because that's my job. That's what he hired 619 00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:13,360 Speaker 1: me to do, that's what he paid the expenses for 620 00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:15,400 Speaker 1: us to go out there and do it. And I 621 00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:18,759 Speaker 1: did what I told him I would do, and I 622 00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:22,200 Speaker 1: felt like it was my responsibility and and my call 623 00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:25,680 Speaker 1: to to him to tell him we found his son. 624 00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:29,759 Speaker 1: And what was his response? Oh, he broke down. It 625 00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:34,279 Speaker 1: was unbelievable. Uh. And I didn't want to hear that 626 00:42:34,640 --> 00:42:38,560 Speaker 1: or or or I have to do that, but it 627 00:42:38,719 --> 00:42:42,240 Speaker 1: had to be done. And he didn't know that. He said, 628 00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:46,960 Speaker 1: I gotta sit down. I just got the word, um, 629 00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:50,200 Speaker 1: I don't know if I'm faint, And then I was sudden. 630 00:42:50,239 --> 00:42:52,600 Speaker 1: I mean, it's this air between us. And I said, 631 00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:56,360 Speaker 1: are you gonna be okay? Are you gonna need somebody? 632 00:42:56,480 --> 00:42:59,440 Speaker 1: And he said no, I I got to talk to 633 00:42:59,520 --> 00:43:02,040 Speaker 1: my boss and I've got to come back home mother. 634 00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:04,399 Speaker 1: And you know, he's just all over the place. That's 635 00:43:04,440 --> 00:43:07,399 Speaker 1: about how he was talking. And I can understand that, 636 00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:10,560 Speaker 1: and I think it hit him like a son of bridge. 637 00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:16,120 Speaker 1: I think he knew as in guessing like I did. 638 00:43:16,719 --> 00:43:22,239 Speaker 1: I pretty much for several conversations with him, I prepared 639 00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:28,000 Speaker 1: him for It's Emily. It's Emily is Emily, and Emily 640 00:43:28,360 --> 00:43:32,560 Speaker 1: is cannabin as. She is try to get him to 641 00:43:32,680 --> 00:43:39,000 Speaker 1: think it was his his uh ex wife or Lucas's 642 00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:45,120 Speaker 1: biological mother. She is very slick and conniving. I'm very 643 00:43:45,160 --> 00:43:50,920 Speaker 1: curious does he feel any responsibility at all. I know 644 00:43:51,080 --> 00:43:54,440 Speaker 1: he was out of town when Lucas was killed. But 645 00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:58,719 Speaker 1: many people argue that Lucas had been being abused by 646 00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:03,239 Speaker 1: his living girlfriend and for a long time he'd have bruises. 647 00:44:03,640 --> 00:44:07,560 Speaker 1: He'd tell people how mean she was to him, but 648 00:44:07,760 --> 00:44:11,719 Speaker 1: he left her there with him. Well, like I faish, 649 00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:16,160 Speaker 1: he's cannabin and she's made up stories over and over 650 00:44:16,200 --> 00:44:18,760 Speaker 1: and over again. She probably never did it in front 651 00:44:18,760 --> 00:44:22,160 Speaker 1: of him, and only that and if he if he 652 00:44:22,200 --> 00:44:25,040 Speaker 1: would think back, every time you were out of town 653 00:44:26,640 --> 00:44:30,400 Speaker 1: Lucas got hurt. It was never when you were around, 654 00:44:30,560 --> 00:44:34,840 Speaker 1: Lucas was injured. And I asked him about that. He said, 655 00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:39,480 Speaker 1: you know, you're right. He never got injured when he 656 00:44:39,560 --> 00:44:44,080 Speaker 1: was around, but when he went away he would be injured. 657 00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:50,240 Speaker 1: So she had him smoothed. You know what. Ashley Willcott, 658 00:44:50,320 --> 00:44:55,040 Speaker 1: juvenile judge and founder of child crime watch dot com 659 00:44:55,080 --> 00:45:02,000 Speaker 1: Ashley my head wants to blame the dad for leaving 660 00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:05,279 Speaker 1: her there with him and now he's dead. But the 661 00:45:05,360 --> 00:45:08,439 Speaker 1: reality is, when you're in a relationship, you don't want 662 00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:11,040 Speaker 1: to see the bad thing about the other person. You 663 00:45:11,080 --> 00:45:13,920 Speaker 1: don't want to know. For instance, when guys run around 664 00:45:13,920 --> 00:45:16,439 Speaker 1: on their wives or vice versa. You'll think up every 665 00:45:16,440 --> 00:45:19,040 Speaker 1: excuse theory is rather than what you are seeing in 666 00:45:19,040 --> 00:45:22,239 Speaker 1: front of your eyes with children, you don't want to 667 00:45:22,280 --> 00:45:24,799 Speaker 1: believe that the person you love would do such a 668 00:45:24,840 --> 00:45:28,040 Speaker 1: horrible thing. He didn't want to believe it, Ashley. I 669 00:45:28,120 --> 00:45:30,400 Speaker 1: see it over and over and over again. And here's 670 00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:33,560 Speaker 1: what frustrates me. And I tell everybody, and I'll tell anybody, 671 00:45:33,600 --> 00:45:36,040 Speaker 1: trust your gut. So even if you're in denial, even 672 00:45:36,080 --> 00:45:38,000 Speaker 1: if you don't want to believe it, if your gut 673 00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:40,480 Speaker 1: is there's a problem, there might be a problem, don't 674 00:45:40,840 --> 00:45:43,799 Speaker 1: leave your children with that person. The other thing I 675 00:45:43,800 --> 00:45:47,680 Speaker 1: want to add, Nancy, is it's so common and statistically 676 00:45:47,719 --> 00:45:51,800 Speaker 1: true that often someone who abuses or neglects the child 677 00:45:52,120 --> 00:45:55,520 Speaker 1: picks a target child. And that's exactly what this mother 678 00:45:55,600 --> 00:45:57,440 Speaker 1: did in this case. And the p I has already 679 00:45:57,440 --> 00:46:00,040 Speaker 1: talked about it and talked about perhaps why, but this 680 00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:03,840 Speaker 1: was her target child that she chose to target, to abuse, 681 00:46:04,120 --> 00:46:07,279 Speaker 1: to beat, to kill. Kim Martin Missing Pieces Network, who 682 00:46:07,320 --> 00:46:10,920 Speaker 1: has been looking for Lucas since the very beginning, Kim Martin, 683 00:46:11,360 --> 00:46:14,880 Speaker 1: what are your questions and thoughts? We all knew this 684 00:46:14,920 --> 00:46:16,600 Speaker 1: was going to happen. We all knew he was going 685 00:46:16,640 --> 00:46:20,000 Speaker 1: to be found. I guess it just you know, you 686 00:46:20,120 --> 00:46:22,480 Speaker 1: lived the day in, day out for three months and 687 00:46:23,480 --> 00:46:25,840 Speaker 1: it's just odd to have it. I don't know, I 688 00:46:25,840 --> 00:46:28,880 Speaker 1: can't explain the emotions. Um, David, I don't know if 689 00:46:28,880 --> 00:46:31,359 Speaker 1: you can answer this. Don't want to jeopard as the investigation. 690 00:46:31,440 --> 00:46:37,000 Speaker 1: But do you think she had any help meeting the body? No? 691 00:46:38,120 --> 00:46:42,880 Speaker 1: It was I mean I did find that out. I 692 00:46:42,960 --> 00:46:51,120 Speaker 1: asked her and no, she she didn't. Um, I'm pretty positive, 693 00:46:51,560 --> 00:46:54,280 Speaker 1: real positive, she did not have any hip. Lee Egan, 694 00:46:54,400 --> 00:46:57,480 Speaker 1: Crime Online investigative reporter, what's your question line? This is 695 00:46:57,520 --> 00:47:00,799 Speaker 1: my question. Um. When we started reporting this, what we 696 00:47:00,880 --> 00:47:04,080 Speaker 1: heard from the beginning from Emily was that she took 697 00:47:04,080 --> 00:47:08,480 Speaker 1: a nap at three TM on February sevent When she 698 00:47:08,520 --> 00:47:11,719 Speaker 1: woke up a few hours later, Lucas was gone. Now 699 00:47:11,840 --> 00:47:15,000 Speaker 1: is she now saying that when she woke up the 700 00:47:15,120 --> 00:47:18,560 Speaker 1: morning of February seventeenth, that he was already dead. That 701 00:47:18,880 --> 00:47:22,000 Speaker 1: that that's what she told us, and the records of 702 00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:27,759 Speaker 1: her phone showed in broad daylight that's when she took him. 703 00:47:28,320 --> 00:47:31,080 Speaker 1: And you know, when I'm asking her questions and I 704 00:47:31,200 --> 00:47:36,439 Speaker 1: talked about you know how was Lucas and stuff? When 705 00:47:36,480 --> 00:47:40,320 Speaker 1: she tells me the things she tells me, that means 706 00:47:40,640 --> 00:47:45,719 Speaker 1: she did this sometime that day, like that's when he 707 00:47:45,800 --> 00:47:50,600 Speaker 1: did pass and that's when she did take him out. 708 00:47:50,719 --> 00:47:56,160 Speaker 1: So she took him out in broad daylight and got 709 00:47:56,239 --> 00:47:58,759 Speaker 1: rid of him like she was just taking out the 710 00:47:58,760 --> 00:48:04,160 Speaker 1: trash with me. Is a man who somehow convinced stepmother 711 00:48:04,320 --> 00:48:09,640 Speaker 1: Emily Glass to divulge the location a five year old 712 00:48:09,760 --> 00:48:15,040 Speaker 1: Lucas's remains. David Marshburne, who I am sure will be 713 00:48:15,040 --> 00:48:18,799 Speaker 1: a witness at trial. David, do you expect this to 714 00:48:18,840 --> 00:48:20,759 Speaker 1: be a death penalty case? What do you think will 715 00:48:20,760 --> 00:48:27,920 Speaker 1: happen now? Well, it's hard to say because I have 716 00:48:28,200 --> 00:48:33,919 Speaker 1: been told by a someone in the media, how did 717 00:48:33,960 --> 00:48:42,680 Speaker 1: I feel about Kansas's long you know, parents or killing 718 00:48:42,680 --> 00:48:45,160 Speaker 1: a child in the state of Kansas. And I said, 719 00:48:45,200 --> 00:48:48,160 Speaker 1: I don't know what's talking about. How I don't know 720 00:48:48,280 --> 00:48:49,920 Speaker 1: the laws around there, and I don't know what the 721 00:48:49,960 --> 00:48:54,000 Speaker 1: penalties and they told me, and I nunless it's true. 722 00:48:54,080 --> 00:48:57,000 Speaker 1: I mean, you just hear things. But what when she 723 00:48:57,080 --> 00:48:58,880 Speaker 1: told me this, I should have looked it up and 724 00:48:59,239 --> 00:49:02,960 Speaker 1: studied it. It It sounds too hard to believe. She said, 725 00:49:03,040 --> 00:49:06,680 Speaker 1: only seven years is what your max is for killing 726 00:49:06,680 --> 00:49:11,600 Speaker 1: a child? Wow? Who said that? Media that called me 727 00:49:11,800 --> 00:49:16,040 Speaker 1: and wanted to do an interview. Well, here's the thing, 728 00:49:16,320 --> 00:49:22,239 Speaker 1: David Marshburne. If it's a voluntary manslaughter or involuntary then 729 00:49:22,680 --> 00:49:26,279 Speaker 1: maybe she might proll out on that. But if it's 730 00:49:26,480 --> 00:49:29,760 Speaker 1: murder one, which I think it will be based on 731 00:49:30,239 --> 00:49:34,080 Speaker 1: the record of child abuse. I mean, when you don't 732 00:49:34,080 --> 00:49:36,200 Speaker 1: know a horse, look at his track record. This was 733 00:49:36,280 --> 00:49:41,040 Speaker 1: no accident. How he died would beat my my argument 734 00:49:41,080 --> 00:49:44,560 Speaker 1: to a jury. And if the child had died by accident, 735 00:49:45,239 --> 00:49:47,600 Speaker 1: then why not call nine one one and have them 736 00:49:47,960 --> 00:49:49,680 Speaker 1: come and try to save him or at least give 737 00:49:49,719 --> 00:49:54,600 Speaker 1: him a regular burial. So everything to me points to 738 00:49:55,080 --> 00:49:59,760 Speaker 1: in intentional murder. Premeditation only takes a moment. A moment 739 00:50:00,560 --> 00:50:02,359 Speaker 1: and the time it takes you to raise the gun 740 00:50:02,360 --> 00:50:05,600 Speaker 1: and pull the trigger, that's enough time for premeditation. If 741 00:50:05,719 --> 00:50:08,200 Speaker 1: she beat this child until he died or killed him 742 00:50:08,200 --> 00:50:13,120 Speaker 1: in some other manner, then that's murder. And I'm guessing 743 00:50:13,400 --> 00:50:17,759 Speaker 1: that they're waiting to get all the toxicology and all 744 00:50:17,840 --> 00:50:21,960 Speaker 1: the autopsy reports back, so maybe they can determine a 745 00:50:22,040 --> 00:50:27,200 Speaker 1: cause of death on the child. If if it's gonna 746 00:50:27,239 --> 00:50:33,400 Speaker 1: be a first degree murder, her best chance, and I 747 00:50:34,200 --> 00:50:37,120 Speaker 1: feel when the autopsic comes back, the best thing for 748 00:50:37,160 --> 00:50:39,719 Speaker 1: her to do is plea and just live out the 749 00:50:39,719 --> 00:50:43,680 Speaker 1: rest of her life behind them ballers. That's what she 750 00:50:43,800 --> 00:50:46,000 Speaker 1: needs to do, because if she goes in front of 751 00:50:46,000 --> 00:50:49,000 Speaker 1: the jury, you're dealing with a kid. And I know 752 00:50:49,080 --> 00:50:52,880 Speaker 1: it only takes one juror to say, you know, no 753 00:50:53,280 --> 00:50:56,000 Speaker 1: for the death penalty, But I don't see how twelve 754 00:50:56,040 --> 00:50:58,719 Speaker 1: jurors with this case the way it is and what 755 00:50:58,840 --> 00:51:04,440 Speaker 1: I do know about the how they will not say definitely, 756 00:51:04,880 --> 00:51:10,040 Speaker 1: after she realizes you find the body, you've got Lucas's 757 00:51:10,120 --> 00:51:12,799 Speaker 1: five year old Lucas's body, Did she ever give any 758 00:51:12,840 --> 00:51:16,000 Speaker 1: explanation as to how he died? Her explanation is she 759 00:51:16,080 --> 00:51:20,160 Speaker 1: just found in that way child. You just don't find 760 00:51:20,160 --> 00:51:24,279 Speaker 1: a child that way. No, David. Her statement that she 761 00:51:24,400 --> 00:51:30,480 Speaker 1: gave to me in his condition, um no, that does 762 00:51:30,560 --> 00:51:32,759 Speaker 1: not even match. See, when people don't know a lot 763 00:51:32,800 --> 00:51:36,400 Speaker 1: about how a human body does when it is deceased, 764 00:51:37,239 --> 00:51:41,400 Speaker 1: she already screwed up. Was he, David Marshburn, Was he 765 00:51:41,440 --> 00:51:44,560 Speaker 1: totally skeletonized or was there any soft tissue left? I 766 00:51:44,640 --> 00:51:50,759 Speaker 1: say there was a lot there enough that it's uh. 767 00:51:51,640 --> 00:51:54,040 Speaker 1: I don't want to sound gruesome, you know what. I 768 00:51:54,080 --> 00:51:57,200 Speaker 1: hate to even I hate to even talk about the 769 00:51:57,320 --> 00:52:00,799 Speaker 1: tissue remains of this child, Alan do. What is the 770 00:52:00,800 --> 00:52:04,239 Speaker 1: tip line in case anyone saw something that day that 771 00:52:04,440 --> 00:52:07,279 Speaker 1: may help put the pieces of this puzzle together? What's 772 00:52:07,320 --> 00:52:10,520 Speaker 1: the tipline? Allen, Nancy which to police say that anyone 773 00:52:10,600 --> 00:52:13,839 Speaker 1: with information can call their detectives at three one six 774 00:52:14,280 --> 00:52:18,279 Speaker 1: two six eight four zero seven or crime stoppers at 775 00:52:18,280 --> 00:52:21,919 Speaker 1: three one six two six seven to one one one. 776 00:52:22,080 --> 00:52:25,239 Speaker 1: Guys with me is David Marshburne, the private eye who 777 00:52:25,280 --> 00:52:32,160 Speaker 1: managed to find Lucas Hernandez's remains after months of searching. 778 00:52:32,960 --> 00:52:36,680 Speaker 1: And we wait as justice and folds. Happy birthday, Dear, 779 00:52:38,080 --> 00:52:44,160 Speaker 1: Happy birthday to you. Blot your candle. Good job, but 780 00:52:44,800 --> 00:52:49,919 Speaker 1: you're five years old Tomorrow, Nancy Grace Crime Story signing off, 781 00:52:50,600 --> 00:52:58,120 Speaker 1: goodbye friend. Since we posted this episode Wednesday, there was 782 00:52:58,120 --> 00:53:02,120 Speaker 1: another major announcement in the Lucas Nanda's case, after WHICHITAD 783 00:53:02,160 --> 00:53:06,880 Speaker 1: detectives met with prosecutors Wednesday afternoon. Sedgwick County, Kansas District 784 00:53:06,880 --> 00:53:09,880 Speaker 1: Attorney Mark Bennett announced there would be no charges against 785 00:53:09,880 --> 00:53:12,680 Speaker 1: Emily Glass until they see the full results of the 786 00:53:12,680 --> 00:53:16,360 Speaker 1: autopsy and follow up on new investigative leads. In fact, 787 00:53:16,520 --> 00:53:19,680 Speaker 1: the obstruction charge filed against Glass hours after she led 788 00:53:19,680 --> 00:53:23,200 Speaker 1: marshburn to Lucas's body has now been dropped and she 789 00:53:23,400 --> 00:53:27,480 Speaker 1: was released from jail. In our next episode, you'll ride 790 00:53:27,480 --> 00:53:32,080 Speaker 1: along with private investigator David Marshburne as Lucas's stepmom Emily 791 00:53:32,160 --> 00:53:39,880 Speaker 1: Glass leads him to where she hid the child's body. 792 00:53:41,600 --> 00:53:48,160 Speaker 1: That's in the next Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Did 793 00:53:48,160 --> 00:53:51,000 Speaker 1: you know a recent law can leave your personal data 794 00:53:51,080 --> 00:53:55,400 Speaker 1: exposed online for anybody to find? If you've turned on 795 00:53:55,480 --> 00:53:58,000 Speaker 1: the Knews lately, you know the internet has created a 796 00:53:58,080 --> 00:54:01,760 Speaker 1: dangerous new world. It's time you take back the power 797 00:54:01,880 --> 00:54:05,279 Speaker 1: by using a new website called truth Finder. Have you 798 00:54:05,320 --> 00:54:07,920 Speaker 1: been issued a speeding ticket, received a lean from the 799 00:54:07,960 --> 00:54:12,200 Speaker 1: I R S? Did you forget about embarrassing social media profile? 800 00:54:12,880 --> 00:54:16,560 Speaker 1: That info may already be online. Truth Finder can help 801 00:54:16,640 --> 00:54:20,680 Speaker 1: you find it. Truth Finder searches millions of public records, 802 00:54:20,719 --> 00:54:25,640 Speaker 1: assembling the data together in one report. Members get unlimited searches, 803 00:54:26,000 --> 00:54:28,200 Speaker 1: so you can also look up those close to you 804 00:54:28,520 --> 00:54:32,240 Speaker 1: and make sure they're not hiding something. Visit truth finder 805 00:54:32,320 --> 00:54:36,120 Speaker 1: dot com slash Nancy, enter your own name, Get started,