Speaker 1: This is it could Happen Here. I'm Garrison Davis. This
Speaker 1: episode is going to be a bit of an update
Speaker 1: and an interview regarding the Defend the Atlanta Forest and
Speaker 1: Cops City movement that's been ongoing for almost two years now.
Speaker 1: If you're unfamiliar with the topic, I made a three hour,
Speaker 1: two part deep dive last May titled on the Ground
Speaker 1: at Defend the Atlanta Forest that you can find up
Speaker 1: on the it could Happen Here feed and I've been
Speaker 1: doing random updates, like in our History of the Old
Speaker 1: Atlanta Prison Farm episodes from last August. But the t
Speaker 1: l d R is that the City of Atlanta and
Speaker 1: the corporate funded Atlanta Police Foundation are trying to tear
Speaker 1: down a large section of the Woolwanee or South River
Speaker 1: Forest into Cab County to construct a massive, ninety million dollar, militarized,
Speaker 1: state of the art police training facility, complete with a
Speaker 1: mock city. On top of that, Ryan millsaps Black Hall
Speaker 1: Movie Studios are planning to cut down an adjacent section
Speaker 1: of the very same forest to expand their film production
Speaker 1: studio in a shady land swap deal that's currently the
Speaker 1: subject of a lawsuit. The past couple of weeks have
Speaker 1: seen a massive increase in the intensity of repression efforts
Speaker 1: by the state and local police inside Atlanta and Decap
Speaker 1: County against the Cops City movement and people in the
Speaker 1: forest encampments trying to prevent the construction of the police
Speaker 1: training facility. Last month, on a December there was a
Speaker 1: raid on the forest by a task force of local,
Speaker 1: state and federal law enforcement. Police were shooting pepperballs, rubber
Speaker 1: tipped metal impact rounds, and tear gas canisters into the woods.
Speaker 1: They destroyed treehouses while people were still inside, and tour
Speaker 1: part other infrastructure, like the communal kitchen that was built
Speaker 1: inside the forest to support the encampment. Police fired chemical
Speaker 1: weapons at tree sitters, arrested multiple people, and pushed others
Speaker 1: out of the forest at gunpoint. One of the things
Speaker 1: setting this apart from previous raids is that six people
Speaker 1: have now been charged with domestic terrorism as well as
Speaker 1: a number of other felonies. The people charged were initially
Speaker 1: denied bail and essentially held as political prisoners for trespassing
Speaker 1: in a forest, with the terrorism enhancement charge added on top.
Speaker 1: The Georgia Bureau of Investigation alleges quote several people through
Speaker 1: rocks at police cars and attacked E m T s
Speaker 1: outside the neighboring fire stations with rocks and bottles. Task
Speaker 1: Force members used various tactics to arrest individuals who are
Speaker 1: occupying makeshift treehouses unquote. The Georgia Department of Homeland Security,
Speaker 1: which was formed as the result of a seen bill,
Speaker 1: which is also responsible for the expanded definition of domestic terrorism,
Speaker 1: has chose to designate the Defend the Atlanta Forest as
Speaker 1: quote domestic violent extremists unquote, which has led the state
Speaker 1: Attorney General's office to also get involved in the case.
Speaker 1: I think it's worth mentioning that this seventeen domestic Terrorism
Speaker 1: Bill was first passed by the Georgia legislature in response
Speaker 1: to the neo Nazi Dylan Roof mass shooting at Emmanuel
Speaker 1: African Methodist Episcopal Church in Charleston, South Carolina, which killed
Speaker 1: nine people. So now we have this law allegedly created
Speaker 1: in response to a murderous white supremacist targeted attack against
Speaker 1: black people, now being used for the first time as
Speaker 1: a bludgeon against anti racist protesters who are fighting again
Speaker 1: the expansion and further militarization of police facilities. This is
Speaker 1: a reminder that any expansion of state power will always
Speaker 1: come down the hardest on people who are actually pushing
Speaker 1: back against the power structures of the state, like the police.
Speaker 1: After being held in jail for two weeks, on December,
Speaker 1: the six people were finally granted bail, but as of
Speaker 1: two days later, the jail was refusing to comply and
Speaker 1: release someone, instead saying that they will be quote held
Speaker 1: well the prosecutor add additional charges unquote. This abnormality was
Speaker 1: soon resolved and by December all six people charged were
Speaker 1: released on bail thanks to the Solidarity Fund, everyone who donated,
Speaker 1: and people working jail support. Our interview today will be
Speaker 1: focusing on the jail support aspect and bail Fund organizing
Speaker 1: and for note, this interview was conducted prior to the
Speaker 1: release of the Forest Defenders. With me here today is
Speaker 1: James and Ralph. James is from the Atlanta Anti Repression
Speaker 1: Committee and Ralph is from the Solidarity Fund. Greetings, thank you,
Speaker 1: thank you for joining me here, thank you for having us.
Speaker 1: Good to be here. So first I would like to
Speaker 1: see if, if if either of you have any kind
Speaker 1: of extra input on what's happened the past few weeks
Speaker 1: and how you think, I mean, I can't I can't
Speaker 1: quite ask you why because you're obviously not not the police,
Speaker 1: but like, what what might be some reasons for some
Speaker 1: of the some of the increased repression and to use
Speaker 1: extremely extremely high charges being levied at people at this
Speaker 1: point in the movement. Yeah, they are extremely high charges.
Speaker 1: They're really unprecedented charges in the state of Georgia. I
Speaker 1: don't think that does the best in the entire questions
Speaker 1: based I've really ever seen anything like this being used
Speaker 1: against protest series and I think the reason why it's
Speaker 1: pretty clear. And I think that that reason is because
Speaker 1: there's been an extremely effective social movements that's involved thousands
Speaker 1: of people from Atlanta and from across the country over
Speaker 1: the last year and a half two years that have
Speaker 1: brought a serious challenge against a very unpopular proposal from
Speaker 1: the city to build a police mega mega compounds. And
Speaker 1: I think that the police and various other agencies that
Speaker 1: they're working with, the Atlanta Police, the Atlanta Police Foundation,
Speaker 1: the Georgia Bureau Investigation, that the Cap County Police Department,
Speaker 1: all of these different agencies, I think at this point
Speaker 1: are are are really frustrated. And I think that really
Speaker 1: shows up in the charges that they've given people, because
Speaker 1: where we're talking about are people who have been literally
Speaker 1: pulled out of tree sets. Like this is the most
Speaker 1: like classic example of you know, non violent direct action
Speaker 1: civil disobedience you can think of, and you have people
Speaker 1: who are allegedly being pulled out of tree sets in
Speaker 1: charge with them to terrorism, and I think that really
Speaker 1: shows it's both very very scary in terms of the
Speaker 1: severity of the charges, but it also has like an
Speaker 1: element of just being a little ridiculous in in terms
Speaker 1: of using these types of charge. You know, they make
Speaker 1: you think of like you know, the school shootings or
Speaker 1: you know, like nine eleven or something like this, like
Speaker 1: like these are the sorts of things that come to
Speaker 1: mind when you think of domestic terrorism. And yet what
Speaker 1: we're talking about here is people who are allegedly being
Speaker 1: pulled out of out of tree sets after you know,
Speaker 1: being shot at with pepper balls and tear gasper and
Speaker 1: um hours on end before they before they were pulled down.
Speaker 1: And I think that then the point of that is
Speaker 1: to scare people. It's because they are having a very
Speaker 1: difficult time, um gaining any sort of public support or
Speaker 1: sympathy for this project. And I think they're they're just
Speaker 1: really out of out of loss, and so that what
Speaker 1: they need right now is they need to scare people.
Speaker 1: They need to shut down this special isn't it by
Speaker 1: whatever means that they have available, And right now they're
Speaker 1: The technique that they're employing is just fear. And so
Speaker 1: the point of this is to have a chilling effect.
Speaker 1: It's to say that anybody who is protesting, who is
Speaker 1: a part of this social movement, could be liable to
Speaker 1: extremely extremely heavy charges. And that's what they're banking on.
Speaker 1: They want people to be scared. They want to separate
Speaker 1: out people from from the movement who feel like they
Speaker 1: can no longer participate because the charges or the potential
Speaker 1: repression is too severe. They want to be able to
Speaker 1: scare away people that support the movement by saying, look,
Speaker 1: you're supporting a terrorist movement. You're supporting something that is
Speaker 1: h extreme to to some crazy degree, but we know
Speaker 1: what the what the the real extreme position here is
Speaker 1: that they know that the city doesn't want this. They've had,
Speaker 1: you know, countless protests and all sorts of different different
Speaker 1: examples of just public outcry into this projects, and they
Speaker 1: proceeded with it anyway, and so now they're forced to
Speaker 1: be in this aste where they gonna have to they're
Speaker 1: gonna have to use whatever sort of are they uh,
Speaker 1: violence or force or like extreme charges to shut it down. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the Atlanta Police Department since has had a huge, like
Speaker 1: the largest in the country by percentage, budgetary increase granted
Speaker 1: by the city. And this was done after the most
Speaker 1: amount of public comment there ever was in the history
Speaker 1: of city council, which was all done to say, to
Speaker 1: lower the police budget, to to defund the police as
Speaker 1: it were, and to send put that money to other use.
Speaker 1: And then the second most amount of public comment the
Speaker 1: city Council has ever received was seventeen hours of public
Speaker 1: comment were over sevent the respondents were saying to not
Speaker 1: build cops city. They the Atlanta Police Foundation, the Atlanta
Speaker 1: Police Department in the City of Atlanta, does not listen
Speaker 1: to the popular will from below from the people that
Speaker 1: they edge to represent. But all of this pressure, the
Speaker 1: pressure to to charge non violent protesters with domestic terrorism
Speaker 1: is coming from their corporate their corporate sponsors. It's coming
Speaker 1: from BB and T, It's coming from BAC of America, A,
Speaker 1: T and T, Equifax, the Arthur Blank, Arthur Blank, who
Speaker 1: is the billionaire who runs home Depot. Uh, it's it's
Speaker 1: coming from the people they actually represent, which is their
Speaker 1: corporate backers. They're there seven months behind on this project. Uh,
Speaker 1: grass Field and Gory, the company that is the general
Speaker 1: contractor who also funds the APF. They're all certainly behind doors,
Speaker 1: being like, what's going on. We're seven months behind on
Speaker 1: this project. Why have we not broken ground yet? And
Speaker 1: they're still being denied the land the land of sturbants
Speaker 1: permits because there they can't get their own act together.
Speaker 1: They can't prove that this would be an environmentally friendly
Speaker 1: thing to do because it's simply escent. It's leveling over
Speaker 1: acres of land of forested land. And instead they just
Speaker 1: try to use brute force because that is what the
Speaker 1: state knows how to do. They know to use brute force,
Speaker 1: and then they want to put up trumped up charges
Speaker 1: onto onto onto random people who they are trying to
Speaker 1: tend the whole movement on when the movement is thousands
Speaker 1: of people all over the city and all over the country. Yeah,
Speaker 1: from like the from some of the recent some of
Speaker 1: the recent hearings, and based on the based on the
Speaker 1: DHS documents, they're they're really trying to do the thing
Speaker 1: where they frame an autonomous, decentralized movement as a group,
Speaker 1: and if you're part of a group, that means that
Speaker 1: you're you know, involved in in, you know, the domestic
Speaker 1: violent extremist group, which is just not how these types
Speaker 1: of things work. It's same thing that the right has
Speaker 1: been trying to label things like quote unquote Antifa as
Speaker 1: for years. Some prosecutors and cities around the country have
Speaker 1: tried to try to charge people with similar kind of
Speaker 1: domestic terrorism or like gang violence charges due to their
Speaker 1: involvement with the Antifa group. Um, And it's the same.
Speaker 1: It's the same tactic here and trying to frame a
Speaker 1: decentralized movement as like an organized group of people. And
Speaker 1: it seems like one aspect for why this is happening
Speaker 1: is like, like some of you have have mentioned, it's
Speaker 1: it's in the form of like a deterrent. Right, They're
Speaker 1: trying to scare people away, saying that if you associate
Speaker 1: with this movement, we could we will charge you with terrorism. Right.
Speaker 1: It's it's it's it's this, it's this thing to try
Speaker 1: to push people away, UM, try to try to try
Speaker 1: to prevent anyone else from from organizing in any capacity
Speaker 1: or just showing up on like just just showing up
Speaker 1: to the forest. It's it's it's pretty comical, but it's
Speaker 1: also quite quite frightening and in some ways, which is
Speaker 1: which is part of the intention, part of why I
Speaker 1: wanted to talk with with both of you here today
Speaker 1: is to kind of discuss the role of both the
Speaker 1: Solidarity Fund and Anti Repression Organizing UM and just discussed
Speaker 1: the role of that and in how they support like
Speaker 1: activism movements and how they support UM land defense movements
Speaker 1: like like like in the case of Defend the Atlanta Forest,
Speaker 1: And yeah, what what what kind of what the role
Speaker 1: of of this type of organizing is in AH, in
Speaker 1: the context of this this type of activism. I guess, uh,
Speaker 1: let's let's start with Let's start with the Solidarity Fund,
Speaker 1: because that was you know, one of the things that
Speaker 1: I saw in the aftermath of these charges in the
Speaker 1: raid is a lot of calls to doing it, to
Speaker 1: doing it, to the Solidarity Fund to help people out
Speaker 1: who have been hit with these outrageous charges. So, uh,
Speaker 1: I guess A Ralph, we talked a little bit about
Speaker 1: some of some of you know, what what the Solidarity
Speaker 1: Fund is and and uh and kind of how how
Speaker 1: this how this type of organizing operates. Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1: So the Atlanta Solidarity Fund formed just to have a
Speaker 1: bit of context for the organization. We formed in two
Speaker 1: thousand sixteen in the lead up to a um count
Speaker 1: counter demonstration against uh some Ku Klux Klan members who
Speaker 1: were trying to burn a cross on Stone Mountain in
Speaker 1: two thousands sixteen. This was like after a sequence of
Speaker 1: them having protests there after the Dylan Roof massacre, and
Speaker 1: people organized a counter demo, and we thought it would
Speaker 1: be intelligent to form a bail fund in case anyone
Speaker 1: got arrested, because in the past bail funds in Atlanta
Speaker 1: like refused to bail out anyone who they like deemed
Speaker 1: as committing crimes that they deemed violent. Uh. And we
Speaker 1: wanted to create a veil fund that does not discriminate
Speaker 1: against activists based on what the state alleges that they
Speaker 1: did or did not do. And we formed in that
Speaker 1: and like after that, we would at different protests throughout
Speaker 1: the years, we would buil people out. We would fund
Speaker 1: raised to get them lawyers and we would support them
Speaker 1: however we could, like organizing court vigils um and court support,
Speaker 1: and then and also suing the police like countersuing them
Speaker 1: for when they did like agree justus acts of police
Speaker 1: brutality or intimidation. And then in with the George Floyd uprising,
Speaker 1: we went from being a like small bail fund to
Speaker 1: um getting widespread support. We got tens of thousands of
Speaker 1: people donating money to us, and in Atlanta, over nine
Speaker 1: people were arrested by the police that summer, and you know,
Speaker 1: we supported all of them, all the ones who are
Speaker 1: not giving signature bond. We bailed out all the ones
Speaker 1: that were given signature bond, and all the other ones.
Speaker 1: We got them lawyers and we have been supporting them
Speaker 1: every step in the way. A few of them have
Speaker 1: sadly gone to prison, and we support them financially while
Speaker 1: they're in prison. Were like putting money on their promissary
Speaker 1: every month, and we uh pay like help them out
Speaker 1: with their phone calls, and we set aside money for
Speaker 1: when they get out there. You won't just be in
Speaker 1: destitute poverty, which is like what usually happens to people
Speaker 1: who have to have sit in prison UM and in
Speaker 1: the case of the Defend the Atlanta Forest movement, we've
Speaker 1: supported it UM through anti repression by when people get arrested,
Speaker 1: getting them lawyers, failing them out and UM when there's
Speaker 1: been like door knocks or whatever from law enforcement agencies,
Speaker 1: we have lawyers who will represent them as well, because
Speaker 1: oftentimes those people aren't given charges, but they're being intimidated
Speaker 1: by law enforcement, and when you get a lawyer in
Speaker 1: between them, that intimidation normally stops. UH. And we also
Speaker 1: do jail support for anyone who has to like when
Speaker 1: they get in jail, they have a number that they
Speaker 1: can call us and we can help get them out UM.
Speaker 1: And for the six people who are currently charged with
Speaker 1: domestic terrorism as at the time of this recording, they're
Speaker 1: currently locked up and we are supporting them and we've
Speaker 1: hired lawyers to advocate for them at their bail at
Speaker 1: their next bail hearing UM and hopefully we will get
Speaker 1: them out and they will not have to sit in
Speaker 1: jail during their pre trial. We're a volunteer organization, like
Speaker 1: none of us are paid to do this. UH. We
Speaker 1: do this because we believe in UM the power of
Speaker 1: like liberatory social movements and we want to support those
Speaker 1: movements and give them strength. Yeah, because I would say,
Speaker 1: I think I think a lot of you know, relatively
Speaker 1: big cities around the state's how some form of jail
Speaker 1: support organization, whether it be formal or informal um And
Speaker 1: it's it's this type of organizing which happens kind of
Speaker 1: on the periphery of a lot of these types of movements, right,
Speaker 1: It's not it's it's not the it's not the like
Speaker 1: excitement of throwing back a tear gas canister at a cop.
Speaker 1: It's it's all of the things that happen afterwards that
Speaker 1: can can assist people who are who are facing like
Speaker 1: in some cases, very significant state state repression. And it's
Speaker 1: definitely it's not it's not the most flashy work, but
Speaker 1: it is, I would argue as pretty crucial to any
Speaker 1: to any type of like functioning like system that allows
Speaker 1: protests to happen as a part of democracy, is a
Speaker 1: part of you know, long term revolutionary strategy, whatever kind
Speaker 1: of whatever kind of ideology you have, These these types
Speaker 1: of these types of like peripheral jail support and bails
Speaker 1: fund organizings. It's definitely just as crucial as a lot
Speaker 1: of a lot of like the on the ground support
Speaker 1: stuff like you know, bringing water bottles or you know,
Speaker 1: helping up people in the moment totally, Like every movement
Speaker 1: needs a rear guard, Like it needs people like the
Speaker 1: people who are out protesting and organizing there on the
Speaker 1: front lines, and we're able to be the rear guard
Speaker 1: or like when the state does attack, like we're able
Speaker 1: to like not have them be completely taken out of
Speaker 1: the field, Like they're able to get back and we're
Speaker 1: able to support them and able to keep people safe
Speaker 1: from like police repression and from what essentially amounts to
Speaker 1: like legal kidnapping and like torture in the carceral state. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I mean in some cases, like in Portland, that's
Speaker 1: it's very much was a legal kidnapping, something that people
Speaker 1: are still are still dealing with on the on the
Speaker 1: on like the jail support side and helping people out
Speaker 1: with with you know, making sure that the state cannot
Speaker 1: get away with stuff like this um because they the
Speaker 1: thing they want the most is for nobody to push
Speaker 1: back on it, because that means they have permission to
Speaker 1: do it in the future without you know, without any
Speaker 1: possible consequence or even even like even like any like
Speaker 1: attempt at consequence. How could so I know like that Nope,
Speaker 1: A lot a lot of cities have have jail support stuff. Um.
Speaker 1: A lot of this is also run on donations. What
Speaker 1: are what are some ways that people could could assist
Speaker 1: in these types of things? Um? Obviously people can donate
Speaker 1: to bail funds um. And I think there's a lot
Speaker 1: of I mean, even even just showing up outside of
Speaker 1: jail or prison after these types of events is something
Speaker 1: that that happens a lot in terms of in terms
Speaker 1: of ways to kind of start getting plugged in in
Speaker 1: this in this type of like peripheral bail fund and
Speaker 1: jail support organizing totally. Yeah, I mean people should should
Speaker 1: donate to their local bail funds uh and even become
Speaker 1: like reoccurring donators. But people can like join jail support teams.
Speaker 1: There's like we in Atlanta, we have a training and
Speaker 1: it can get you trained on how to be a
Speaker 1: jail support person. And yeah, we have like once you're
Speaker 1: plugged in, you can like do jail and jail vigil
Speaker 1: like for when people get out so that they're not alone.
Speaker 1: Jails are often not always, but often like in like
Speaker 1: remote areas of the city or even outside of the city,
Speaker 1: so like it can be hard to like get get
Speaker 1: a bus back, so you can offer them rides back.
Speaker 1: You can get plugged into do in court support and
Speaker 1: like currently the six people charge of domestic terrorism are
Speaker 1: like being denied bail. Hopefully that will change. But in
Speaker 1: the case of like people being held, Uh, you can
Speaker 1: write post cards or letters to people and let them
Speaker 1: know that there are people on the outside who support them.
Speaker 1: If you're in an area that like doesn't have that
Speaker 1: doesn't have a group that um helps people out who
Speaker 1: are like who are having to sit in jail, Like
Speaker 1: you can put money on their commissary uh directly, and
Speaker 1: you can write to them, and you can send them books. Uh.
Speaker 1: And in the sense of like people showing up pretty
Speaker 1: immediately outside of the jail, Like it is really inspiring. Uh.
Speaker 1: What happened the day Uh in the evening after the
Speaker 1: six after the first five people were arrested. Uh that
Speaker 1: that evening, like a crowd of dozens of people showed
Speaker 1: up outside of the Cab County jail and had a
Speaker 1: noise demo to like make noise outside of the jail
Speaker 1: to let the five know that they were not alone
Speaker 1: and that there's people outside who support them. Now, I
Speaker 1: think we will shift the conversation over to James. James,
Speaker 1: you're with the Atlanta Anti Repression Committee. We've already talked
Speaker 1: about the role of these ridiculous charges as a repression method.
Speaker 1: Could you briefly explain what the Atlanta Anti Repression Committee
Speaker 1: is and its role in the periphery of these on
Speaker 1: the ground decentralized movements. Yeah. Sure, So the Atlanta Antire
Speaker 1: Repression Committee is a group that started in in the
Speaker 1: aftermath at the George Floyd protests, and we started because
Speaker 1: we recognized that there was a need for a kind
Speaker 1: of specific type of uh antire repression work to be done,
Speaker 1: which is to say that there's a lot of um,
Speaker 1: you know, it's like the bulk of anti repression, and
Speaker 1: you know that the single most important thing is keeping
Speaker 1: people safe, right, and so what that entails is a
Speaker 1: lot of legal defense for people that are arrested, people
Speaker 1: that are incarcery, to people that are imprisoned as a
Speaker 1: result of their activity and protest movements and social movements, um,
Speaker 1: fighting for you know, liberation. That said, um, there's also
Speaker 1: a whole a whole other type of work that needs
Speaker 1: to be done, which is the sort of what we
Speaker 1: like to call political defense. So in other words, we
Speaker 1: want to see these movements continue, we want to see
Speaker 1: these movements grow, and we want to see these movements
Speaker 1: be the powerful. And a part of that is understanding
Speaker 1: the specific mechanisms of repression and fighting back against the
Speaker 1: narratives that are being used against protesters in the media.
Speaker 1: So a lot of what we do is media work, um,
Speaker 1: because there's a lot of things that you know, once
Speaker 1: you're once you're arrested as a part of a protest movement,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of things you can't say, um, But
Speaker 1: there's a lot of things that need to be said, um,
Speaker 1: namely that people that have been arrested, whether we're talking
Speaker 1: about people in the Black Lives Matter movement or in
Speaker 1: the Defensive Forest movement today, are fighting for a just cause.
Speaker 1: These people should be doing what they're doing, and that's
Speaker 1: something that that that needs to be spread as as
Speaker 1: far and wide as possible. Um. And so we do
Speaker 1: a lot of media work to to to justify and
Speaker 1: support not just the individual protesters, but the things that
Speaker 1: they're fighting for. And then we also do a lot
Speaker 1: of essentially research and analysis to understand the overall patterns
Speaker 1: of repression as they play out, and and so that's
Speaker 1: something that's like that's really interesting, particularly in this case
Speaker 1: because you know, I said, we've never seen this before
Speaker 1: in Georgia, but we have seen this before. We've seen
Speaker 1: exactly these tactics be used against you know, protesters in
Speaker 1: the Standing Rock movement. We've seen it used in the
Speaker 1: Green Scare, against the Earth Liberation Front, against Earth First.
Speaker 1: We've seen these movements like over and over again come
Speaker 1: up against this this giant wall, which is these these
Speaker 1: sorts of charges accusing people of terrorism. And so part
Speaker 1: of what we do is analyze what those what those
Speaker 1: strategies are and try to publicize them, try to help
Speaker 1: people to understand, um, because it's it's the the agencies
Speaker 1: that were up against the all these different wings of
Speaker 1: the state and their corporate factors. As Ralph was saying,
Speaker 1: they have an institutional memory. They are able to look back,
Speaker 1: you know, twenty years in the past and be like, Okay,
Speaker 1: there was a social movement over here, um, and we
Speaker 1: were able to stop it because we did this, this
Speaker 1: and this, and they're able to have that that sort
Speaker 1: of memory to go back and look at those tactics.
Speaker 1: And part of the goal of depression is to cut
Speaker 1: people out of social moments, to cut off this sort
Speaker 1: of generational understanding of the dynamics of repression. And so
Speaker 1: we want to we want to increase our our capacity,
Speaker 1: as people who are invested in seeing social movements succeeded UM,
Speaker 1: be able to understand these sorts of repressive tactics and
Speaker 1: develop strategies against them. And I say that because we
Speaker 1: see repression as being a part of social movements. There
Speaker 1: are no social events that are successful that don't encounter REFRESHIMAN.
Speaker 1: So we have a we have a strong need to
Speaker 1: be able to understand the specific mechanisms of state repression,
Speaker 1: how they were, how different agencies work, how the specific
Speaker 1: laws work UH, and to be able to disseminate that
Speaker 1: information for and why, both within movements and also within
Speaker 1: the mainstream media. At the public event, one of the
Speaker 1: sheriff's involved in the involved in the raid against the
Speaker 1: forest offenders UH suggested that because because one of them
Speaker 1: is from California and is in Atlanta, that makes him
Speaker 1: a terrorist. This is utterly absurd, Like we live in
Speaker 1: one country like we're allowed, we have the freedom to travel,
Speaker 1: and we have the unlike the police, we regular people
Speaker 1: have solidarity and can and have empathy and can see
Speaker 1: our own interests in other struggles that take place elsewhere,
Speaker 1: and that it is a noble thing to be like
Speaker 1: I have to go somewhere support to participate. Uh. And
Speaker 1: this is not something that should be discouraged. And this
Speaker 1: is not terroristic. This is a sign of the beautifulness
Speaker 1: of human empathy and the ability to see yourself in others.
Speaker 1: And this is what the police lack. That's That's definitely
Speaker 1: something I wanted to bring up at some point because
Speaker 1: this is this is a tactic that we've seen both
Speaker 1: the Atlanta Police, Foundation of the City Council and you know,
Speaker 1: right wing propagandists like Andy no have have have tried
Speaker 1: to frame this, have tried to frame this in terms
Speaker 1: of like the the outside agitator's angle um there. And
Speaker 1: you see in all of and all of the all
Speaker 1: of the arrest reports um that that that get published,
Speaker 1: one of the things they emphasize is that the that
Speaker 1: people arrested, some of them have been born in other states.
Speaker 1: They always they always mentioned the state that this first
Speaker 1: and was born in um, which is just a ridiculous
Speaker 1: notion that people don't have the freedom to move around
Speaker 1: the country. Uh, absolutely absurd that that that that people
Speaker 1: don't have the freedom to move around to places and
Speaker 1: choose where where they want to live. So they're framing
Speaker 1: they're framing people who are arrested that were that happened
Speaker 1: to be born in other places. They're they're they're they're
Speaker 1: using this as a in terms of like the outside
Speaker 1: agitator angle to be like people are are coming into
Speaker 1: Atlanta to try to you know, so chaos and disorder
Speaker 1: within our city. Um and look they're they're pulling out
Speaker 1: people from all from all around the country. Then they're
Speaker 1: trying to you know, frame it in this like very
Speaker 1: conspiratorial lens um. And that's just that that is that
Speaker 1: is that is something that I've also noticed and and
Speaker 1: found to be uh a quite interesting tactic. I mean,
Speaker 1: I would they definitely wanted to be an effective strategy
Speaker 1: in terms of the outside agitator angle of of you know,
Speaker 1: people coming coming in from out of state to get
Speaker 1: to get involved in this group, this this Antifa alligned
Speaker 1: to terrorist group. As someone like Andy no would say, Uh,
Speaker 1: And it's it's it's it's purely it's purely a propaganda
Speaker 1: tactic because it relies on the notion that people can't
Speaker 1: move around the country and decide where they want to live, uh,
Speaker 1: which obviously, which obviously is an absurd notion. Um. And
Speaker 1: I think as as as you said, it also kind
Speaker 1: of you know, the other side of this is that
Speaker 1: it highlights the kind of the beautiful nature of being
Speaker 1: able to choose where you want to go and choose
Speaker 1: to get involved in things that you feel are important,
Speaker 1: even if they aren't in the current place where you
Speaker 1: are living. Just to add a little bit to this,
Speaker 1: like it's crazy, because it's like the when you read
Speaker 1: the reports in the news of the people that they arrest,
Speaker 1: they always make it a point to talk about people
Speaker 1: from out its own and they always seem to omit
Speaker 1: the people that are from Atlanta that they've arrested. And
Speaker 1: not that I'm advocating that they should be publicizing, you know,
Speaker 1: these people at all, but it's just to highlight that
Speaker 1: what they're doing is a propaganda tactic. And I think
Speaker 1: it it has has really fallen on their face in
Speaker 1: Atlanta because you know, Atlanta is a city that's famous
Speaker 1: for the civil rights movement. Like we're talking about freedom writers,
Speaker 1: we're talking about people from all over the South, from
Speaker 1: all over the country coming to you know, Martin Luther
Speaker 1: King went to Solma, he's from Atlanta. You know, this
Speaker 1: type of this type of logic just doesn't really doesn't
Speaker 1: really seem to work here, and it's really bizarre to
Speaker 1: see them try to use it over and over and
Speaker 1: over again. It's really just like a failed playbook at
Speaker 1: this point, within the context of both how the repression
Speaker 1: against they defend the Atlanta Force movement has evolved and
Speaker 1: where it's at now with what's happened in the past
Speaker 1: few weeks, and then also considering the types of analysis
Speaker 1: of past ecological and resistance movements that we've seen, how
Speaker 1: do you see some of the repression by the state
Speaker 1: evolving as the Atlanta four stuff continues. Well, I think
Speaker 1: that that overall, with respect to social movements, we've seen
Speaker 1: an increase in this this type of charge that as
Speaker 1: Ralph was sort of getting at, it's it's a it's
Speaker 1: it's a it's a type of charge that criminalizes your
Speaker 1: participation in in a in a group or in a
Speaker 1: social invement um. And so if you look at the
Speaker 1: specific warrants that are used again some of these people
Speaker 1: that they just arrested, um, you know, I'm thinking of
Speaker 1: one in particular where it goes into detail and it says,
Speaker 1: this person is accused of being a part of a
Speaker 1: domestic violence a domestic violent extremist movement called Defend the
Speaker 1: Atlanta Forest, and they're responsible for all of these acts
Speaker 1: of all of these different crimes from trespassing to UH
Speaker 1: to arson or whatever, you know. And so they lump
Speaker 1: this all together or they say that an autonomous social
Speaker 1: movement is a coherent organization. And then they say that
Speaker 1: the individual that they arrested UH confirmed their participation in
Speaker 1: this group called Defend the Atlanta Forest by sitting in
Speaker 1: a treehouse and wearing camouflage. This is absurdum, because there's
Speaker 1: there's no evidence in in this in this example that
Speaker 1: this particular person or any of these people have anything
Speaker 1: to do with any of these other crimes that they
Speaker 1: are alleging were a part of this movement. So what
Speaker 1: they're doing instead, they know that they can't arrest them
Speaker 1: for that, But what they're doing instead is they're coming
Speaker 1: at it from this legal angle, where they're saying, this
Speaker 1: movement as a whole is a discrete group. This group
Speaker 1: is an extremist group, and so your participation in anything
Speaker 1: that seems like it's a part of this group is
Speaker 1: criminal in and of itself, and in this case, terrorists
Speaker 1: in and of itself. And this is a really disturbing
Speaker 1: trend that we've seen in over the last few years,
Speaker 1: with the increase in the use of conspiracy chart is,
Speaker 1: with the increase in the use of rico charges, racketeering charges,
Speaker 1: and the point of all of these different legal strategies
Speaker 1: is to hold people accountable for crimes that they did
Speaker 1: not do. And that's exactly what we're seeing now with
Speaker 1: the six people that they just arrested. They want to
Speaker 1: hold these people accountable and make them martyrs for an
Speaker 1: entire movement that's involved hundreds and thousands of people doing
Speaker 1: all sorts of things criminal or otherwise. And that is
Speaker 1: a disturbing trend um and and it's it's especially disturbing
Speaker 1: because if you look at the way that the the
Speaker 1: laws written in Georgia with respect to domestic terrorism, so
Speaker 1: that's an that's an enhancement charge. It means that you
Speaker 1: have to be arrested for another crime, for example, in
Speaker 1: in in the in the example of the people that
Speaker 1: they just arrested felony trust passing, they add in a
Speaker 1: domestic terrorism enhancement charge to it. And the justification for
Speaker 1: this domestic and domestic terrorism enhancement charge is to basically
Speaker 1: saying that they were attempting to change governmental policy by intimidation,
Speaker 1: which is an interesting way of staying protesting is illegal.
Speaker 1: All protests involves trying to change governmental policy. That is
Speaker 1: what protesting is, and what they what they are attempting
Speaker 1: to do now with these charges is to reframe that
Speaker 1: entirely and say that that is terrorism and that is uh,
Speaker 1: you know, it's sort of it's we're on a tricky
Speaker 1: slope right now, because it's like, on the one hand,
Speaker 1: we need to recognize that these charges are absurd and
Speaker 1: they very likely won't stand up in court because they're
Speaker 1: very clearly unconstitutional at the very least, So we need
Speaker 1: to not be afraid of them on the one hand,
Speaker 1: and to show how absurd they are. On the other hand,
Speaker 1: we should take this as a serious threat to social
Speaker 1: movements all across the United States, in all different sorts
Speaker 1: of fields and areas and different different types of fights
Speaker 1: for for for different different sorts of things to say like, wow,
Speaker 1: this is a huge, huge stretch that they're trying to
Speaker 1: pull here because they have seen like in the last
Speaker 1: few decades, like a tremendous amount of polarization in America
Speaker 1: all sorts of social news ments that involve you know,
Speaker 1: Black Lives Matter was twenty million people. Are these people
Speaker 1: all terrorists? And and so that's why it's important to
Speaker 1: pay attention to what's happening now in Atlanta with the
Speaker 1: struggle to attend the Atlanta Forest and the charges that
Speaker 1: they're putting against these people, because if they can succeed
Speaker 1: with this type of charge, that's a very very dangerous
Speaker 1: precedent for people who are part of all sorts of
Speaker 1: social movements, and not just the left wing either. You know,
Speaker 1: there's a part of this that's like since the January
Speaker 1: six the you know, so called insurrection, however you want
Speaker 1: to however you want to characterize that, there's been a
Speaker 1: tremendous push by the federal government too to crack down
Speaker 1: on social movements. They see this as like threats to
Speaker 1: into their stability that there are you know situations where
Speaker 1: there's thousands or millions of people who are participating in
Speaker 1: in all different sorts of social movements and they need
Speaker 1: to send a clear message that people should not be
Speaker 1: out protesting. Thank you both for talking with me today. UM.
Speaker 1: Where could people both learn more about your respect to organizations?
Speaker 1: And then also how can people support force defenders who
Speaker 1: are facing the increasingly harsh state repression. You could visit
Speaker 1: the just like Google or look up on any of
Speaker 1: the major social media platforms Atlanta Solidarity Fund UH and
Speaker 1: you could read go to our website UM. And if
Speaker 1: you want to support any force defenders who are facing
Speaker 1: serious charges, UM, you donate money or you could write
Speaker 1: write them UM postcards or if you could send them
Speaker 1: books that they've requested UM and when court dates are.
Speaker 1: When court dates come up, we'll probably publicize those so
Speaker 1: that people can come out and UM show show their
Speaker 1: support and solidarity the people facing charges. And you could
Speaker 1: come out to UH do court support and you can
Speaker 1: get involved in the movement yourself if you UH feel
Speaker 1: so inclined now, Yeah, and I'll just add to that.
Speaker 1: The Aliena Entire Repression Committee can be found on Instagram.
Speaker 1: You can look it up. Uh, and and just generally speaking,
Speaker 1: this is something that people need to talk about. So
Speaker 1: any chance that you have to talk about to explain
Speaker 1: what's happening in Atlanta, to put a giant light on
Speaker 1: this situation, because everybody needs to be paying attention to
Speaker 1: this because this is not just uh, you know, as
Speaker 1: as as people and that defend the force women say,
Speaker 1: it's not just a local issue. Their national and even
Speaker 1: international complications for this type of stuff. And and that's
Speaker 1: also true with regards to repression. If they can succeed
Speaker 1: with these charges here, that's a that's a major death
Speaker 1: blow too to all sorts of social movements, and they'll
Speaker 1: they'll be trying to export this tactic elsewhere. We think
Speaker 1: it won't stick, but we think it's extremely important for
Speaker 1: people to be talking about it and to make this
Speaker 1: uh the national issue that we recognize that it is.
Speaker 1: Some of those links we will also be putting in
Speaker 1: the description below. The day that this episode is being
Speaker 1: released just happens to be Martin Luther King Junior Day.
Speaker 1: And also it's the last day in a weekend of
Speaker 1: solidarity to stop Cops City. This past weekend, there's been
Speaker 1: events gatherings, actions, and rallies in Atlanta and across the
Speaker 1: country in support for the Stop Cops City movement and
Speaker 1: the six individuals facing domestic terrorism charges. On Saturday, I
Speaker 1: saw pictures of a huge banner hanging outside of a
Speaker 1: squat in France in solidarity with Atlanta and struggles to
Speaker 1: defend the Atlanta Forest. It seems the extremely high charges
Speaker 1: in Georgia have not dissuade people from across the country
Speaker 1: from engaging in direct action. In December, at list construction
Speaker 1: offices one of the contractors working on Cops City were
Speaker 1: attacked in Manhattan and Michigan in solidarity with those arrested
Speaker 1: defending the Wilani Forest. On January five, a construction site
Speaker 1: and office is for Brassfield and Gory, the main contractors
Speaker 1: currently working on Cops City, were attacked by anarchists in
Speaker 1: South Florida, according to a statement published on the website
Speaker 1: scenes dot no blogs dot org, and just days earlier,
Speaker 1: another post on the site claimed credit for setting fire
Speaker 1: to a Bank of America in Portland. Bank of America
Speaker 1: is a major contributor to the Atlanta Police Foundation. Both
Speaker 1: of those statements referenced the domestic terrorism charges. You can
Speaker 1: check out Defend the Atlanta Forest at Defend the Atlanta
Speaker 1: Forest dot org and most major social media sites. You
Speaker 1: can check out scenes dot no, blogs dot org for
Speaker 1: more stories of direct action on the front lines, and
Speaker 1: of course you can check out the Atlanta Solidarity Fund
Speaker 1: at a t L Solidarity dot org. There you can
Speaker 1: donate to bail funds and help people currently facing state repression.
Speaker 1: That's all for us today, See you on the other side.
Speaker 1: It could Happen Here as a production of cool Zone
Speaker 1: Media and more podcasts from cool Zone Media. Visit our
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Speaker 1: Could Happen Here, updated monthly at cool zone Media dot
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