1 00:00:06,920 --> 00:00:10,480 Speaker 1: Hi, and welcome back to the Carol Markowitz Show on iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:10,800 --> 00:00:14,360 Speaker 1: The big story over the last week is Kansas City 3 00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:19,280 Speaker 1: chiefs kicker Harrison Butker. Butker is Catholic and delivered a 4 00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:23,680 Speaker 1: Catholic themed speech to a Catholic university. Now, I really 5 00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:26,960 Speaker 1: hate when people say I don't agree with everything you 6 00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:32,040 Speaker 1: know this person says, because obviously, of course I can't 7 00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:35,080 Speaker 1: think of a single person where I agree with everything 8 00:00:35,320 --> 00:00:38,240 Speaker 1: they say. I don't even agree with everything I've ever said. 9 00:00:38,680 --> 00:00:41,839 Speaker 1: So I'll note that there are some things in Butker's 10 00:00:41,840 --> 00:00:45,479 Speaker 1: speech I disagreed with, as I'm not Catholic, I'm not 11 00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:50,160 Speaker 1: his audience. I'm very pro IVF for example, but again 12 00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:53,720 Speaker 1: not Catholic. The comments were not meant for me. The 13 00:00:53,800 --> 00:00:57,080 Speaker 1: part he's getting the most heat for is saying that 14 00:00:57,200 --> 00:01:01,440 Speaker 1: women would be most fulfilled stay home with their kids 15 00:01:01,480 --> 00:01:04,440 Speaker 1: instead of pursuing a career. If you listen to the speech, 16 00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:07,840 Speaker 1: he nearly breaks down when he's talking about his wife 17 00:01:07,959 --> 00:01:11,400 Speaker 1: and how her life truly started when she began living 18 00:01:11,440 --> 00:01:14,839 Speaker 1: her vocation as a wife and a mother. He literally 19 00:01:14,880 --> 00:01:18,880 Speaker 1: almost cries as he credits her with allowing him to 20 00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:20,959 Speaker 1: be the man that he is. I have a daughter. 21 00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:24,760 Speaker 1: She is fourteen, and she is brilliant, and she always 22 00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:28,640 Speaker 1: has been. I imagine all the amazing things she can do. 23 00:01:29,280 --> 00:01:32,560 Speaker 1: She reads these giant books all the time, carries them 24 00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:36,480 Speaker 1: around with her. She loves robotics. She's so sharp and 25 00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:40,840 Speaker 1: so clever, and she's so driven straight a student. The 26 00:01:40,959 --> 00:01:43,760 Speaker 1: very idea of getting a bee, you know, really alarms her. 27 00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:46,959 Speaker 1: She's going places. I'm sure she is, and I hope 28 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:50,800 Speaker 1: she does. But when I imagine a successful life for her, 29 00:01:51,200 --> 00:01:53,960 Speaker 1: I imagine her with a family. I mean, look, there 30 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:56,400 Speaker 1: are many ways to have a good life, but I 31 00:01:56,600 --> 00:02:00,400 Speaker 1: most desperately want for her to have a loving Marie 32 00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:03,800 Speaker 1: with someone that she wants to be around all the time, 33 00:02:04,200 --> 00:02:07,160 Speaker 1: and if God blesses them, I want them to have 34 00:02:07,640 --> 00:02:10,279 Speaker 1: many children. Do I want her to be a scientist 35 00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:13,120 Speaker 1: or work in tech or coding or whatever it is 36 00:02:13,160 --> 00:02:13,960 Speaker 1: she will love to do. 37 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:17,720 Speaker 2: Of course, and I love my career. I love what 38 00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:19,600 Speaker 2: I do. But one thing. 39 00:02:19,520 --> 00:02:22,920 Speaker 1: I'll say is that that's pretty rare. I did not 40 00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:26,120 Speaker 1: love all the jobs I had before I turned my 41 00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:30,000 Speaker 1: love of writing into an actual career. I had many 42 00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:33,200 Speaker 1: miserable jobs, some that paid very well and some that 43 00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:37,519 Speaker 1: didn't that I still absolutely hated. There was no fulfillment 44 00:02:37,639 --> 00:02:41,000 Speaker 1: at all. It was just a paycheck, and hey, paychecks 45 00:02:41,040 --> 00:02:44,160 Speaker 1: are important. Not everything we do is going to warm 46 00:02:44,200 --> 00:02:48,519 Speaker 1: our soul. I can think of many PowerPoint presentations or 47 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:51,560 Speaker 1: spreadsheets that I made that did not change the world 48 00:02:51,720 --> 00:02:55,640 Speaker 1: at all. Most jobs are just jobs. And the thing is, 49 00:02:55,720 --> 00:02:58,480 Speaker 1: you have to be incredibly lucky to not have to work. 50 00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:01,880 Speaker 1: If you already have the option to stay home and 51 00:03:01,919 --> 00:03:05,440 Speaker 1: be a homemaker, you've already won the lottery. And I'll 52 00:03:05,480 --> 00:03:08,600 Speaker 1: also say this, when a couple has a baby, it's 53 00:03:08,880 --> 00:03:11,880 Speaker 1: very rare that anyone asks the man, hey, are you 54 00:03:11,919 --> 00:03:14,200 Speaker 1: going to stay home or keep on working? And it's 55 00:03:14,240 --> 00:03:17,000 Speaker 1: seen as like anti women to ask the woman this. 56 00:03:17,440 --> 00:03:20,040 Speaker 1: But the thing is, it's not an option at all 57 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:23,760 Speaker 1: presented to men. It's an option only for women. So 58 00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:26,800 Speaker 1: if you get that option at all, it's not backward 59 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:31,040 Speaker 1: or anti feminist or whatever nonsense people are calling. Butker's speech, 60 00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:36,760 Speaker 1: you're already among the absolutely most blessed people. The other 61 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:39,400 Speaker 1: thing I'll say is that no matter how lucky I am, 62 00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:42,640 Speaker 1: that I get to do what I love. And I 63 00:03:42,680 --> 00:03:44,880 Speaker 1: should note that I get to do the thing that 64 00:03:44,920 --> 00:03:48,600 Speaker 1: I love around the schedule of my family, having always 65 00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:51,360 Speaker 1: worked from home, and I'm always there to pick up 66 00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:53,480 Speaker 1: the kids from school if they're sick, or go on 67 00:03:53,560 --> 00:03:56,680 Speaker 1: field trips or volunteer in their classes. But if I 68 00:03:56,760 --> 00:04:00,480 Speaker 1: had to pick between the career that I truly love 69 00:04:00,720 --> 00:04:05,080 Speaker 1: and find so meaningful and enjoy doing so much, if 70 00:04:05,080 --> 00:04:08,320 Speaker 1: I had to choose between that and my family, I'd 71 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:10,880 Speaker 1: set fire to this career and throw it out the 72 00:04:10,920 --> 00:04:14,760 Speaker 1: nearest window so fast, and I wouldn't think twice about it. 73 00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:17,240 Speaker 1: It just doesn't matter to me nearly as much as 74 00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:20,400 Speaker 1: being with my kids, like, not even close. It's why 75 00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:24,560 Speaker 1: women choose more flexible jobs. It's not the patriarchy, it's 76 00:04:24,600 --> 00:04:27,159 Speaker 1: not the glass ceiling. It's that we want to be 77 00:04:27,279 --> 00:04:29,640 Speaker 1: with our kids. When we lived in New York, I 78 00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:34,839 Speaker 1: knew ivy leaguers, doctors, lawyers, the most successful women who, 79 00:04:34,880 --> 00:04:37,479 Speaker 1: as soon as they had a baby, only wanted to 80 00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:41,200 Speaker 1: be with that baby all the time. It's an instinct 81 00:04:41,200 --> 00:04:44,920 Speaker 1: inside of us. And here's the real thing. Men don't 82 00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:47,760 Speaker 1: have it in the same way. Of course, my husband 83 00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:50,640 Speaker 1: would choose his family over his career, but he didn't 84 00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:53,520 Speaker 1: sit in his office weeping like so many women. I 85 00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:56,800 Speaker 1: knew did when their baby was home without them. Men 86 00:04:56,839 --> 00:05:00,240 Speaker 1: and women are different, and women have a pull toward home, 87 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:03,159 Speaker 1: and that's okay, and that's good, and that should be 88 00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:07,200 Speaker 1: nourished and most of all, that should be accepted. That's 89 00:05:07,200 --> 00:05:10,280 Speaker 1: really all. Butker was saying in that part of his speech, 90 00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:13,640 Speaker 1: if you're a woman who has the option to stay 91 00:05:13,640 --> 00:05:16,359 Speaker 1: home with her kids, it's an amazing gift to you 92 00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:20,600 Speaker 1: and to them. Butker is saying, grab that gift and 93 00:05:20,640 --> 00:05:23,520 Speaker 1: hold on to it, and I agree. Coming up next, 94 00:05:23,600 --> 00:05:26,320 Speaker 1: an interview with Jacob Roth. Join us after the break. 95 00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:33,919 Speaker 2: Welcome back to the Carol Markowitz Show on iHeartRadio. My 96 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:38,000 Speaker 2: guest today is Jacob William Roth, conservative civil rights attorney 97 00:05:38,080 --> 00:05:40,360 Speaker 2: with Dylan Law Group. Hi Jacob, so nice to have 98 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:45,120 Speaker 2: you on. So I've had your fantastic wife Abby Roth 99 00:05:45,279 --> 00:05:48,040 Speaker 2: on this show before. I love having you know, family 100 00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:50,599 Speaker 2: members on. Did you listen to her episode? 101 00:05:51,480 --> 00:05:54,960 Speaker 3: I did. I listened to as much of her content 102 00:05:55,040 --> 00:05:57,480 Speaker 3: as I can because obviously I can't get enough of it. 103 00:05:58,240 --> 00:05:58,919 Speaker 3: That's awesome. 104 00:05:59,080 --> 00:06:01,640 Speaker 2: I actually love to hear that. My husband is this 105 00:06:01,720 --> 00:06:05,279 Speaker 2: show's number one fan, listens to all the episodes, so 106 00:06:06,320 --> 00:06:11,080 Speaker 2: really into that. How did you get into the conservative 107 00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:15,240 Speaker 2: legal space, so to. 108 00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:17,040 Speaker 3: Go all the way back. Do you ever see that 109 00:06:17,080 --> 00:06:20,159 Speaker 3: movie Thank You for Smoking with AARNet Krt? I think so. 110 00:06:20,920 --> 00:06:22,880 Speaker 2: I don't want that many movies, but I do think 111 00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:23,560 Speaker 2: I've seen this. 112 00:06:23,960 --> 00:06:27,119 Speaker 3: Yeah, sure, so if you haven't, I recommend watching it. 113 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:29,840 Speaker 3: It's a real slice of life from the early two thousands, 114 00:06:29,839 --> 00:06:31,840 Speaker 3: back when you could make a comedy about a tobacco 115 00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:35,600 Speaker 3: lobbyist and not just have people to cry uniparty corruption, 116 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:37,480 Speaker 3: role and goal call that stuff. People would have thought 117 00:06:37,520 --> 00:06:39,919 Speaker 3: it at the time, but didn't quite have the same 118 00:06:40,040 --> 00:06:44,440 Speaker 3: edge as it would now. Ablay is a charming, slimy, 119 00:06:44,760 --> 00:06:48,520 Speaker 3: awful wheeler dealer tobacco lobbyist, and I love the movie. 120 00:06:48,560 --> 00:06:51,400 Speaker 3: I found it absolutely inspirational. And granted this is back 121 00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:54,120 Speaker 3: when I was like a libertarian hyper atheist, so the 122 00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:57,960 Speaker 3: moral quandry, I just like the idea of the guy 123 00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:00,000 Speaker 3: who talked for a living and was a smooth operator. 124 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:03,120 Speaker 3: That was always so fascinating and appealing to me. So 125 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:04,640 Speaker 3: I knew I wanted to go to law school from 126 00:07:04,680 --> 00:07:07,159 Speaker 3: a young age because I thought law school to lobbyist 127 00:07:07,760 --> 00:07:09,560 Speaker 3: some cause I don't know, but I want to do that. 128 00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:12,760 Speaker 3: And then over time the arc of my personal world 129 00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:16,280 Speaker 3: journey took me from being hyper libertarian hyper atheist, and 130 00:07:16,680 --> 00:07:19,240 Speaker 3: when you combine those two features in one person, it 131 00:07:19,280 --> 00:07:21,960 Speaker 3: makes you somehow more annoying than across the ink Megan, 132 00:07:22,240 --> 00:07:24,360 Speaker 3: which is the only other type of person who is 133 00:07:24,480 --> 00:07:29,200 Speaker 3: as possiblytizing about their causes. Crossfitting vegans are at number two, 134 00:07:29,520 --> 00:07:32,240 Speaker 3: libertarian atheists are number one, and either one of those 135 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:33,880 Speaker 3: should you ever have been misfortunate of being in a 136 00:07:33,960 --> 00:07:37,080 Speaker 3: conversation with but want to be a lobbyist, want to 137 00:07:37,080 --> 00:07:40,920 Speaker 3: go to law school. Eventually became conservative in my orientation, 138 00:07:41,280 --> 00:07:45,920 Speaker 3: eventually became religious, also becoming an Orthodox Jew, and still 139 00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:47,680 Speaker 3: wanted to go to Wall School, but now it was 140 00:07:47,960 --> 00:07:51,360 Speaker 3: for a real cause, not just self aggrandizement. I went 141 00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:53,400 Speaker 3: to Wall School, didn't have much of a plan, wanted 142 00:07:53,440 --> 00:07:55,880 Speaker 3: to be a conservative attorney, whatever that meant. And then 143 00:07:55,920 --> 00:07:59,040 Speaker 3: when it came time for graduation, I realized, oh, you know, 144 00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:02,960 Speaker 3: our movement does not have the best developed nonprofit sector. 145 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:05,640 Speaker 3: We have great nonprofits, but we don't have an entire 146 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:08,880 Speaker 3: multi billion dollar industry. I say, every little want to 147 00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:12,679 Speaker 3: be activist can find professional employment doing their pet cause 148 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:16,600 Speaker 3: after graduation. So I ended up doing I'll work at 149 00:08:16,600 --> 00:08:18,720 Speaker 3: a title insurance company for about a year in Omaha. 150 00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:21,160 Speaker 3: Managed to apply and become a staff attorney for Young 151 00:08:21,200 --> 00:08:23,360 Speaker 3: America's Foundation, and that was a real breakthrough for me. 152 00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:26,680 Speaker 3: Love working with the app or a great organization. Moved 153 00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:30,200 Speaker 3: to Virginia for that from Omaha, and then built up 154 00:08:30,240 --> 00:08:32,400 Speaker 3: my credentials a little bit. Applied to work with Dylan 155 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:35,880 Speaker 3: Wall Group and was blessed and not to be accepted 156 00:08:35,920 --> 00:08:39,800 Speaker 3: onto the team. Now Here, i am in your favorite place, Florida, 157 00:08:40,040 --> 00:08:41,800 Speaker 3: and I'm sure we'll end up talking about what brought 158 00:08:41,840 --> 00:08:45,080 Speaker 3: me here because it is I feel like your mark 159 00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:48,160 Speaker 3: upon the world. Need have so many but is extolling 160 00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:51,840 Speaker 3: the praises of again in your ass to get your 161 00:08:51,880 --> 00:08:55,480 Speaker 3: buck well, you know that a total recall movie with 162 00:08:55,559 --> 00:08:58,240 Speaker 3: schwartze Er. Maybe you don't, but get your ass to Mars, 163 00:08:58,400 --> 00:09:00,760 Speaker 3: get your ass to Florida is like the girl with slogan. 164 00:09:01,080 --> 00:09:03,400 Speaker 2: I love that. Actually I'm going to put that on 165 00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:05,960 Speaker 2: a T shirt. So actually I want to Okay, I 166 00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:07,760 Speaker 2: have so many things I want to talk about here, 167 00:09:07,880 --> 00:09:12,959 Speaker 2: But how did you stop being an atheist libertarian and 168 00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:15,199 Speaker 2: become a religious conservative. 169 00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:20,680 Speaker 3: So there are two real inflection points for me both 170 00:09:20,679 --> 00:09:23,440 Speaker 3: of them due to the great fortune of coming across 171 00:09:23,840 --> 00:09:27,160 Speaker 3: good intellectual influences at the right time. So the first 172 00:09:27,240 --> 00:09:30,199 Speaker 3: is so I went to Northwestern University, which I had 173 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:33,040 Speaker 3: a great effect upon my life from attending, but I 174 00:09:33,080 --> 00:09:35,679 Speaker 3: despised the institution, and especially with all this stuff coming 175 00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:38,320 Speaker 3: out every campus now, with all the crazy anti Semitism, 176 00:09:38,360 --> 00:09:40,280 Speaker 3: which I would want to talk about because that is 177 00:09:40,679 --> 00:09:42,800 Speaker 3: a real goal of mine professionally out is to fight 178 00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:45,240 Speaker 3: that stuff. I went to Northwestern. I did not enjoy 179 00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:46,960 Speaker 3: my time there. I would love for that place to 180 00:09:46,960 --> 00:09:51,120 Speaker 3: cease to exist. But I studied Russian literature and that 181 00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:55,720 Speaker 3: ended up becoming my major. There's one super rockstar professor 182 00:09:55,960 --> 00:09:58,520 Speaker 3: at Northwestern named Gary soul Morrison, and he is the 183 00:09:58,640 --> 00:10:01,480 Speaker 3: pre eminent Russian litter your scholar in America, if not 184 00:10:01,559 --> 00:10:04,720 Speaker 3: the West, and within the world. He's an amazing man. 185 00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:07,079 Speaker 3: So I took his intro to Russian literature class. It's 186 00:10:07,080 --> 00:10:09,600 Speaker 3: the class like that Dead Poet society kind of thing, 187 00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:11,800 Speaker 3: where this is the class that will change your life. 188 00:10:12,160 --> 00:10:14,600 Speaker 3: And normally that's just hype or it's just liberal arts 189 00:10:14,720 --> 00:10:17,440 Speaker 3: kind of nonsense of people will pumping up one rebellious 190 00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:22,120 Speaker 3: kind of thinker no, this class, this professor changed my life. 191 00:10:22,120 --> 00:10:25,880 Speaker 3: And so studying Anna Karana and Brothers Karamazov and the 192 00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:30,680 Speaker 3: great Russian literary masters, Dostoevsky told stoy Chekhov, it opened 193 00:10:30,679 --> 00:10:33,440 Speaker 3: me up to the idea that my libertarian worldview of 194 00:10:33,679 --> 00:10:38,720 Speaker 3: voluntarism and consent or literally the only moral principles was 195 00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:43,760 Speaker 3: so small, so beneath the reality. It's like how deep 196 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:46,640 Speaker 3: the human mind goes, how much the soul really exists, 197 00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:50,440 Speaker 3: and that you actually cannot reduce man to voluntaryism and consent. 198 00:10:50,800 --> 00:10:53,480 Speaker 3: What my whole worldview just interact with that great literature, 199 00:10:53,640 --> 00:10:55,680 Speaker 3: So you know, now everything's blown up, it's not going 200 00:10:55,720 --> 00:10:57,440 Speaker 3: to stay that way. It's going to get put back together. 201 00:10:57,720 --> 00:11:00,719 Speaker 3: And so reading those great Russian literary masters under the 202 00:11:00,760 --> 00:11:03,200 Speaker 3: tutelage of this professor, he and I actually became very close. 203 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:06,479 Speaker 3: I was living in a dorm building where some professors 204 00:11:06,520 --> 00:11:08,880 Speaker 3: can be the master of the dorm. They have since 205 00:11:08,960 --> 00:11:13,200 Speaker 3: changed that title because obviously master hasn't honestly right, uh huh. 206 00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:15,839 Speaker 3: Saving all that aside, because I could do a fifteen 207 00:11:15,880 --> 00:11:18,120 Speaker 3: minute sept on that alone, But he was the master 208 00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:20,880 Speaker 3: of that dorm building scene. Special discussion sections for the 209 00:11:20,880 --> 00:11:23,200 Speaker 3: students who live there. So I got to do special 210 00:11:23,240 --> 00:11:27,760 Speaker 3: discussion sections with this master of Russian literature, and it 211 00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:30,240 Speaker 3: changed my way. It brought me to this deeper understanding 212 00:11:30,280 --> 00:11:33,319 Speaker 3: of soul, of the importance of culture, of help, human psychology, 213 00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:35,760 Speaker 3: salt a lot more complex than just I want to 214 00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:37,120 Speaker 3: do this, So how could it be bad for me? 215 00:11:37,160 --> 00:11:39,080 Speaker 3: As long as it doesn't basically hurt me? Even if 216 00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:41,080 Speaker 3: it does, why I want you to do anyway? Right, 217 00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:43,600 Speaker 3: all of that was just shown to be so shallow 218 00:11:43,640 --> 00:11:46,960 Speaker 3: and teenage. So I became conservative of my orientation, but 219 00:11:47,000 --> 00:11:47,880 Speaker 3: I was still an atheist. 220 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:50,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm dying to know how the atheist Russian writers 221 00:11:50,600 --> 00:11:52,800 Speaker 2: made you religious like this is this is, this is. 222 00:11:53,120 --> 00:11:56,600 Speaker 3: Where we need to go to give cret. Dostoevsky deeply 223 00:11:56,720 --> 00:11:59,120 Speaker 3: orthodox Christian and he may be made a Jews, but 224 00:11:59,160 --> 00:12:03,440 Speaker 3: at least you love God. Tolstoy weird in his religious journey, 225 00:12:03,480 --> 00:12:08,280 Speaker 3: but still fundamentally believed in God and Christianity, though interesting 226 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:11,880 Speaker 3: pacifist pseudo anarchist version of it. And Chekhov was the 227 00:12:11,880 --> 00:12:17,199 Speaker 3: most traditional of the three. But yeah, that tradition showed 228 00:12:17,200 --> 00:12:19,920 Speaker 3: such a depth of soul that I couldn't say that 229 00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:22,120 Speaker 3: these men were wrong about their understanding of what it 230 00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:24,480 Speaker 3: meant to be alive and how to orient your life. 231 00:12:24,840 --> 00:12:26,760 Speaker 3: I just at the time considered them to have the 232 00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:29,600 Speaker 3: wrong explanation for why they were right. Like, Okay, these 233 00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:31,560 Speaker 3: guys know what it means to live, but they're wrong 234 00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:33,600 Speaker 3: in attributing it to God. So I'll give them a 235 00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:35,600 Speaker 3: fair pass on that one. I, as a twenty year 236 00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:36,720 Speaker 3: old obviously no more. 237 00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:37,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know more. 238 00:12:38,120 --> 00:12:41,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, there's that cognitive disstance, right. These guys are wise 239 00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:43,679 Speaker 3: and profound in the right about so much, but the 240 00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:46,439 Speaker 3: wrong about the God thing. Obviously my numbers, so there 241 00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:51,000 Speaker 3: were gaps in my intellectual armor there that eventually were 242 00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:52,960 Speaker 3: fully opened up so I could change my mind. So, 243 00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:57,040 Speaker 3: studying under this professor, Professor Morrison, he recommend that I 244 00:12:57,080 --> 00:13:00,280 Speaker 3: read Jonathan Hikes The Righteous Mind, And so Jonathan Height 245 00:13:00,520 --> 00:13:04,360 Speaker 3: is pretty prominent moral psychologist. 246 00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:06,000 Speaker 2: But also an atheist. I think right. 247 00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:11,360 Speaker 3: Atheist again, atheist wisdom being wiser than the atheism and 248 00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:14,120 Speaker 3: being responsible bring me across the finish line, as it were. 249 00:13:14,400 --> 00:13:17,080 Speaker 3: But I read The Righteous Mind when I was abroad 250 00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:19,960 Speaker 3: in Thailand. I finished my Russian urg degree early so 251 00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:22,280 Speaker 3: I could go to Thailand to do Mui Thai, because 252 00:13:22,280 --> 00:13:24,880 Speaker 3: that's of course what you do with the Russian rich country. Well, 253 00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:26,400 Speaker 3: but to do much else you may as well go 254 00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:26,800 Speaker 3: get munch. 255 00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:29,200 Speaker 2: Nice to know your parents were thinking through all of 256 00:13:29,240 --> 00:13:31,400 Speaker 2: this negative things. 257 00:13:31,640 --> 00:13:36,480 Speaker 3: But as baby boomers who believed in freedom and exploration 258 00:13:36,640 --> 00:13:38,160 Speaker 3: and all those things, you can see where I got 259 00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:40,480 Speaker 3: some of my libertarian impulses from. They didn't see. 260 00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:42,840 Speaker 2: I've had the Russian Terans who did not have any 261 00:13:43,080 --> 00:13:45,280 Speaker 2: even though there were baby boomers, they did not have 262 00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:48,760 Speaker 2: any of that live free philosophy. I had the actual 263 00:13:49,280 --> 00:13:51,040 Speaker 2: you know, the people that you read about in those 264 00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:53,600 Speaker 2: Russian books. 265 00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:57,480 Speaker 3: People who have a serious grounding on things do. But 266 00:13:57,600 --> 00:14:00,439 Speaker 3: they allowed me to make this big move which I 267 00:14:00,440 --> 00:14:02,840 Speaker 3: I'm never going to allow my children to do a 268 00:14:02,880 --> 00:14:05,200 Speaker 3: trip to Thailand to get punched in the face recreationally 269 00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:07,760 Speaker 3: for about three months with no connections in the country. 270 00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:10,760 Speaker 3: Go figure. I might consider that a bad idea, right, 271 00:14:11,760 --> 00:14:14,080 Speaker 3: but you know, bless my parents were allowing me to 272 00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:16,880 Speaker 3: do it. I get turned up fine, didn't really get hurt, 273 00:14:17,160 --> 00:14:19,360 Speaker 3: no bad things happened, And all the year I read 274 00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:23,240 Speaker 3: The Righteous Mind and so John Inheit, he's analyzing the 275 00:14:23,280 --> 00:14:26,440 Speaker 3: psychology of morally, and he is a first section on politics, 276 00:14:26,440 --> 00:14:29,800 Speaker 3: which is interesting, but it's not the real main event. 277 00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:32,920 Speaker 3: He has the second part about religion, and his ultimate 278 00:14:32,920 --> 00:14:35,360 Speaker 3: conclusion is that religion is kind of like a super 279 00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:40,120 Speaker 3: massive gravitational object, just this giant locust point that keeps 280 00:14:40,600 --> 00:14:44,320 Speaker 3: everyone in a culture kind of on the same gravitational orbits. 281 00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:46,200 Speaker 3: You don't quiet into each other, you don't go off 282 00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:48,920 Speaker 3: into the distance. You end up able to form a 283 00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:51,560 Speaker 3: culture because people are enough on the same page. It's 284 00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:54,240 Speaker 3: my metaphor not his. But that's like the four point there. 285 00:14:54,280 --> 00:14:58,160 Speaker 3: So I ended up being an atheist who respects religious insights, 286 00:14:58,520 --> 00:15:02,120 Speaker 3: now understands the utility of religion, but still had that 287 00:15:02,280 --> 00:15:04,760 Speaker 3: snobby thumbing my nose down up people, it's a noble 288 00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:07,440 Speaker 3: why right, Like, I'm glad religion exists at least, right, 289 00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:10,960 Speaker 3: I'm glad they're people believe we need it. But I 290 00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:16,400 Speaker 3: I will show you ike so again more cognitive dissonance. 291 00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:18,840 Speaker 3: So then finally what closed the loop on it was 292 00:15:19,320 --> 00:15:20,360 Speaker 3: Porse Jordan Peterson. 293 00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:25,800 Speaker 2: So another atheist, right, No, I think that's so now 294 00:15:25,840 --> 00:15:28,320 Speaker 2: I know, and now that works with God. But he 295 00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:31,600 Speaker 2: was an atheist probably back then. Oh yes, yes, he was, 296 00:15:31,880 --> 00:15:35,040 Speaker 2: you know, I love this journey to religion through all 297 00:15:35,080 --> 00:15:36,240 Speaker 2: the atheists, I. 298 00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:39,800 Speaker 3: Mean never And to be honest, Professor Morrison, who I 299 00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:41,920 Speaker 3: adore and I'll end up saying more about him, But 300 00:15:42,040 --> 00:15:44,880 Speaker 3: he himself, I believe, is an agnostic. He's a secular Jew, 301 00:15:45,280 --> 00:15:48,200 Speaker 3: a child of Communist parents who rejected hard the Communism, 302 00:15:48,360 --> 00:15:51,400 Speaker 3: was like a real American patriot, but is no great 303 00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:55,720 Speaker 3: believer himself. So yet again another atheist influenced, many of 304 00:15:55,760 --> 00:15:57,960 Speaker 3: whom are secular Jews, who ended to bring me towards 305 00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:01,280 Speaker 3: wanting to be a conservative deeply religion just amazing. 306 00:16:01,320 --> 00:16:02,760 Speaker 2: So what did Jordan Peterson say? 307 00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:06,920 Speaker 3: So he had his first big interview with Joe Rogan 308 00:16:07,040 --> 00:16:09,680 Speaker 3: back in I think December of twenty sixteen. So I 309 00:16:09,720 --> 00:16:11,920 Speaker 3: was studying for my first set of law school exams, 310 00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:14,600 Speaker 3: and of course, rather than studying is intently so I 311 00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:16,320 Speaker 3: should have I also listened to podcasts and one of 312 00:16:16,320 --> 00:16:18,760 Speaker 3: those podcasts was the Jordan Peterson appearance on Joe Rogan. 313 00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:22,640 Speaker 3: And he was doing the Jordan Peterson you know routine, 314 00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:25,080 Speaker 3: and I don't say that to be reductive about it. 315 00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:27,200 Speaker 3: He was doing his greatest hits, except that was the 316 00:16:27,240 --> 00:16:29,240 Speaker 3: beginning of his arc, so they weren't his greatest hits, 317 00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:31,600 Speaker 3: yet it was all absolutely new, and so he was 318 00:16:31,640 --> 00:16:36,480 Speaker 3: talking about from a psychological perspective the profound insights of 319 00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:40,160 Speaker 3: the Jewish Bible, also the Christian Bible, but primarily the 320 00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:43,120 Speaker 3: Jewish Bible. And I, to be honest, growing up on 321 00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:47,160 Speaker 3: on the Island going to reform synagogue where the education 322 00:16:47,240 --> 00:16:50,120 Speaker 3: I received judaically and I went twice a week until 323 00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:53,440 Speaker 3: I was eighteen. After school, Wow, education I received was 324 00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:58,240 Speaker 3: more so the importance of abortion rights, some ethnic history 325 00:16:58,280 --> 00:17:01,160 Speaker 3: of Judaism, really focusing on the Hull Holocaust, and the 326 00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:03,880 Speaker 3: importance of being a Democrat, which is to me, honestly, 327 00:17:03,920 --> 00:17:06,040 Speaker 3: what I would sum up a lot of reform Judaism 328 00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:10,240 Speaker 3: as being those themes absolutely abortion, moove, the Holocaust, and 329 00:17:10,280 --> 00:17:12,240 Speaker 3: we're never going to stop talking about it. We're also 330 00:17:12,280 --> 00:17:14,560 Speaker 3: not going to know anything more about Jewish history and 331 00:17:14,640 --> 00:17:17,640 Speaker 3: vote democrat. H go figure. It ended up not being 332 00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:20,600 Speaker 3: a very nourishing or sustaining spiritual experience, which is how 333 00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:22,640 Speaker 3: I ended up an atheist, even though I did love 334 00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:24,880 Speaker 3: the Rabbis that I had and still them close with them. 335 00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:29,240 Speaker 3: World contains multitudes, but Fard Peterson was presenting the wisdom 336 00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:32,680 Speaker 3: of the Jewish Bible. And I had never heard anyone 337 00:17:32,760 --> 00:17:35,680 Speaker 3: talk about the importance of the Bible as being accurate 338 00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:38,600 Speaker 3: about reality in a deep way. The only way to 339 00:17:38,600 --> 00:17:41,920 Speaker 3: ever understood religion Judaism was what I call like the 340 00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:45,640 Speaker 3: John Stewart presentation of God, sky man with a beard, 341 00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:49,040 Speaker 3: listened to your complaints, occasionally dabbling and then striking people. 342 00:17:49,080 --> 00:17:52,520 Speaker 3: The thunderbolt, which is more accurate presentation is zeus, I 343 00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:57,359 Speaker 3: realized across the board. But that is the the benighted 344 00:17:57,520 --> 00:18:00,000 Speaker 3: understanding of religion. The sad so hearing the idea that 345 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:03,960 Speaker 3: it's wise and true and real even if you don't 346 00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:07,359 Speaker 3: accept it as supernaturally true, never heard before. And the 347 00:18:07,359 --> 00:18:10,680 Speaker 3: way he explained it was so deep, so compelling. It 348 00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:13,280 Speaker 3: widened that cognitive distance even more so. Now you're telling 349 00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:19,200 Speaker 3: me that biblical wisdom straight up is really real about 350 00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:23,679 Speaker 3: how people work. Okay, I can accept that, But the 351 00:18:23,720 --> 00:18:26,880 Speaker 3: God things saying God's not real. Now it's even harder 352 00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:27,320 Speaker 3: than ever. 353 00:18:27,440 --> 00:18:27,600 Speaker 2: And that. 354 00:18:27,720 --> 00:18:30,040 Speaker 3: As part of the interview, he presented a few of 355 00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:33,600 Speaker 3: the Aristotelian arguments for God in the philosophical proposition for 356 00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:38,199 Speaker 3: a unitary God. You know, not the polytheist sky spirits 357 00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:41,359 Speaker 3: or animism or anything like that, but actually one united God, 358 00:18:41,359 --> 00:18:44,119 Speaker 3: and so I really couldn't argue with those. They really 359 00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:45,960 Speaker 3: made a lot of sense for me. So now I 360 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:48,920 Speaker 3: believe in the idea of one God, but maybe not revelation, 361 00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:53,000 Speaker 3: except that the revealed wisdom of the Hebrew Bible, and 362 00:18:53,119 --> 00:18:56,000 Speaker 3: now it just is completely profound. It jibes so well 363 00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:57,879 Speaker 3: with what I knew to be the insights and wisdom 364 00:18:57,880 --> 00:19:00,680 Speaker 3: of the great Russia literary masters. And also Jonathan Height 365 00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:03,880 Speaker 3: and talking about the Wow Girl which and orienting culture. 366 00:19:04,119 --> 00:19:07,320 Speaker 3: So that was all a swirl in the Russian litery tradition. 367 00:19:07,359 --> 00:19:10,400 Speaker 3: Whenever like these intellectual characters end up just with their 368 00:19:10,520 --> 00:19:12,399 Speaker 3: entire world, you kind of blown up. They described us 369 00:19:12,440 --> 00:19:14,879 Speaker 3: like rain fever, at least in the English translations. I 370 00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:17,320 Speaker 3: felt like I had brain people. I got sick actually 371 00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:19,320 Speaker 3: for a few days, like it was just all a 372 00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:22,440 Speaker 3: lot going on thinking about it. I ended up coming 373 00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:24,880 Speaker 3: out the other side. Okay, I believe in doc I'm 374 00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:28,520 Speaker 3: curious in formal religion now seeing if these revolutions make 375 00:19:28,560 --> 00:19:30,800 Speaker 3: sense to me, but I think we'll be entertainedm bent 376 00:19:30,840 --> 00:19:33,639 Speaker 3: this next part. I actually attended an evangelical church for 377 00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:34,040 Speaker 3: a while. 378 00:19:35,320 --> 00:19:36,040 Speaker 2: What made you do that? 379 00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:39,960 Speaker 3: And very typically it was because of a girl. I 380 00:19:40,040 --> 00:19:41,480 Speaker 3: was interested in. A girl at the time was an 381 00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:46,240 Speaker 3: evangelical Christian and things didn't end up working out there, honestly, 382 00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:48,520 Speaker 3: very favorably, because I wouldn't met my wife out the work. 383 00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:51,800 Speaker 3: Well friends, and she's actually very close friends with my wife. 384 00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:55,879 Speaker 3: Now she married an amazing, wonderful man as a joke. Actually, 385 00:19:55,880 --> 00:19:57,239 Speaker 3: my wife once got us up. 386 00:19:57,359 --> 00:19:58,760 Speaker 2: My god, I thought she I thought you were going 387 00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:00,760 Speaker 2: to say she married a man as a joke, And 388 00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:01,080 Speaker 2: I was. 389 00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:09,080 Speaker 3: Like, what, yeah, okay, no, very seriously, very seriously. Children 390 00:20:09,119 --> 00:20:11,440 Speaker 3: just said this second. They're great people. My wife is 391 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:13,560 Speaker 3: a joke. Got me one of those best friend charms 392 00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:16,320 Speaker 3: that's like the little or that's cut in half connected. 393 00:20:16,520 --> 00:20:19,600 Speaker 3: So I have that with this woman's present. Okay, oh 394 00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:22,760 Speaker 3: with a husband okay, good, yeah, yeah, with the husband. 395 00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:25,880 Speaker 3: He's a great guy. But things ended up working out 396 00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:28,159 Speaker 3: with this girl, and it kind of was along in 397 00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:30,360 Speaker 3: the same lines at the same time as me realizing 398 00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:34,240 Speaker 3: I really appreciate Christianity. I really thought a lot of 399 00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:37,080 Speaker 3: the narrative related to Gesus and the idea of redemption, 400 00:20:37,119 --> 00:20:40,720 Speaker 3: connecting to God. That way made sense psychologically, But I 401 00:20:40,760 --> 00:20:44,000 Speaker 3: couldn't let myself be a Christian without giving Judaism a chance, 402 00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:46,840 Speaker 3: because now I've even got Now I'm willing to accept 403 00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:49,800 Speaker 3: a revelation, connect with the religion and really like do it. 404 00:20:50,520 --> 00:20:53,119 Speaker 3: But I hadn't given my own people a chance. And 405 00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:54,919 Speaker 3: if I were to be a Christian, I would be 406 00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:58,560 Speaker 3: validating almost all of the Jewish premise. And there's the 407 00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:01,520 Speaker 3: ortri point between Christine fed me validating the idea that 408 00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:03,840 Speaker 3: they are chosen people. They were given a revelation by Gout. 409 00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:07,639 Speaker 3: The Furah was real, powerful, finding and important, but at 410 00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:10,560 Speaker 3: a certain inflection point there's all this extra Christian content 411 00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:15,000 Speaker 3: as well, And well, that's two distinct premises to accept 412 00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:16,639 Speaker 3: at the same time. And if I were to be 413 00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:19,560 Speaker 3: a Jew or a Christian, I'd still be believing that Judaism, 414 00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:22,480 Speaker 3: at least originally was correct. So if it's my people, 415 00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:25,960 Speaker 3: if it's my inheritance, and people like me don't give 416 00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:28,959 Speaker 3: it a chance first before deciding no longer to participate, 417 00:21:29,359 --> 00:21:32,960 Speaker 3: that's a really pathetic reason for something as ancient and 418 00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:35,359 Speaker 3: important as the Jewish people to cease to exist. That 419 00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:37,800 Speaker 3: I wouldn't even give it a chance, so I wanted 420 00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:39,400 Speaker 3: to go back. I wanted to give it that chance. 421 00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:41,560 Speaker 3: I ended up going to al Habad at the UVA 422 00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:44,679 Speaker 3: campus for a while. Loved the rabbi there. What I 423 00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:47,880 Speaker 3: was studying and learning about Judaism swatted him so well 424 00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:50,240 Speaker 3: with the conservative sensibilities that I had developed, the idea 425 00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:53,800 Speaker 3: of culture inheritance and transmission taking the law seriously, and 426 00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:56,359 Speaker 3: as a law student at the time, the very legal 427 00:21:56,440 --> 00:21:59,159 Speaker 3: grounding of Judaism and interacting with God which supposed to 428 00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:01,960 Speaker 3: do it from a weeklegal perspective, it a lot of 429 00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:03,800 Speaker 3: sense to me too, So I ended up really liking it. 430 00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:06,480 Speaker 3: About six months into this is when I met my wife. 431 00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:10,439 Speaker 3: You're your wife, And that did not cause me to 432 00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:13,840 Speaker 3: want to embrace it. It just sped up the timeline on embracements. 433 00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:15,119 Speaker 3: So that's the story. 434 00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:20,119 Speaker 2: I love that that path is windy and interesting and 435 00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:23,639 Speaker 2: just I mean, I love where you ended up. You know, 436 00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:26,600 Speaker 2: obviously a big fan of both you and your wife. 437 00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:28,520 Speaker 1: We're going to take a quick break and be right 438 00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:30,080 Speaker 1: back on the Carol Marcowitch Show. 439 00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:34,960 Speaker 3: Do you feel like. 440 00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:35,560 Speaker 2: You've made it? 441 00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:40,199 Speaker 3: Yes? And I mean I mean that wholeheartedly, in the 442 00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:42,840 Speaker 3: sense of if you take a look at someone's life 443 00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:46,240 Speaker 3: from an external perspective, it's like an audience member, especially 444 00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:48,720 Speaker 3: for someone and I don't fall into this category, but 445 00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:51,399 Speaker 3: take a famous person who's a high achiever and a 446 00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:56,520 Speaker 3: single domain, right an athlete, rock star, whatever, as a 447 00:22:56,560 --> 00:22:59,159 Speaker 3: third party, we can be impressed by someone being at 448 00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:01,719 Speaker 3: the top of one game. And some of this language 449 00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:04,639 Speaker 3: might go rellaup with the Peterson spiel on games and 450 00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:09,360 Speaker 3: dominant hierarchies, because also it's an extremely useful and accurate 451 00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:11,480 Speaker 3: approach to scrubbing a lot of these things in life. But 452 00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:13,359 Speaker 3: you see someone who's at the top of one game, 453 00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:16,080 Speaker 3: and unfortunately, to get to the top of one game 454 00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:18,880 Speaker 3: above everyone else, to be in that ninety nine percent tile, 455 00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:22,639 Speaker 3: you're sacrificing all the other games you could participate in, 456 00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:25,119 Speaker 3: all the other things that are really relevant and so 457 00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:28,960 Speaker 3: making it is not dominating in one space your career 458 00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:32,000 Speaker 3: or attractiveness to other people you look at, like the 459 00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:34,960 Speaker 3: kind of fitness models who sacrifice way too much physically 460 00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:38,280 Speaker 3: and experientially and socially so that they can have yeahds 461 00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:40,600 Speaker 3: and the photos the presentation or the people of the 462 00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:43,119 Speaker 3: accounts on Instagram where it's all about having the tractive 463 00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:46,760 Speaker 3: looking lifestyle of going out and doing travel. You look 464 00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:48,960 Speaker 3: at that and if you're sacrificing everything to go in 465 00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:51,960 Speaker 3: one direction so that it's attractive to third parties who 466 00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:54,800 Speaker 3: will never know you. And the Andrew Tait style grift 467 00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:58,199 Speaker 3: is that it is manicuring everything in your life to 468 00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:02,600 Speaker 3: give a basically photoshop presentation. And a fourteen year old 469 00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:04,600 Speaker 3: boy would think making it looks like that, and you 470 00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:07,119 Speaker 3: realize you have followed out everything else that matters, So 471 00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:10,760 Speaker 3: making it is balanced. Making it is having the good 472 00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:14,040 Speaker 3: relationship with your spouse and having the kids, and having 473 00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:16,320 Speaker 3: the good relationship with the kids, and having work that 474 00:24:16,359 --> 00:24:19,439 Speaker 3: doesn't take away from your soul and wear at you 475 00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:22,200 Speaker 3: and provides enough for your family. And if it provides 476 00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:25,040 Speaker 3: even more than enough, like a very horm up, that's great, 477 00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:27,680 Speaker 3: but you'll pursue that more than enough at the cost 478 00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:29,520 Speaker 3: of the family, at the cost of the kids. You 479 00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:31,440 Speaker 3: get enough out of it that you can you have 480 00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:33,760 Speaker 3: it be as positive to you as is enough to 481 00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:36,040 Speaker 3: keep you going. And if it's even more it's a vocation, 482 00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:38,600 Speaker 3: it's a calling. That's great, but you wouldn't pursue that 483 00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:40,159 Speaker 3: the cost of the wife and the kids, or the 484 00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:42,920 Speaker 3: religious community, the rest of it. So if making it 485 00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:45,800 Speaker 3: is balanced, and I really think it is, I have 486 00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:49,080 Speaker 3: made it, and I'm extremely blessed and fortunate. And I'm 487 00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:51,320 Speaker 3: very happy to talk about that as a topic because 488 00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:54,640 Speaker 3: where did I come from? Right libertarian atheism. I did 489 00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:56,880 Speaker 3: not think about being married. I did not think about 490 00:24:56,880 --> 00:24:59,240 Speaker 3: having the family. I actually would in the depths my 491 00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:03,240 Speaker 3: little attorney, and is very very condescending to a stadea 492 00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:06,120 Speaker 3: of family and spouses. You know, that kind of annoying 493 00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:07,560 Speaker 3: revolutionary mindset you see them? 494 00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:10,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, Ay, individual matters more than everything, you know, so 495 00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:12,639 Speaker 2: how could you focus on a family? 496 00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:16,240 Speaker 3: Oh yeah? And even worse, even worse, family is an 497 00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:20,399 Speaker 3: oppressive institution. It constrains your freedom. Kids are just annoying 498 00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:24,240 Speaker 3: self adultate, like well cool, being the worst kind of 499 00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:29,000 Speaker 3: a student. That's what I was. So now understanding is balanced. 500 00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:32,080 Speaker 3: I like to talk about it because it's within reach. 501 00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:35,720 Speaker 3: Right for a normal ursh person. You're not going to 502 00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:37,480 Speaker 3: be at the nine and a half percentile of achievement 503 00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:40,960 Speaker 3: in any stupid attractive thing for a third party. If 504 00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:42,879 Speaker 3: you have a family, you can have the house and 505 00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:46,440 Speaker 3: provide and not be worried about like the next week, 506 00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:49,520 Speaker 3: and that stability to enjoy the family more. Life doesn't 507 00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:51,399 Speaker 3: get you happiness, but it can remove the things that 508 00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:54,119 Speaker 3: age miserable, the things that make things unstable or make 509 00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:56,600 Speaker 3: things dangerous. So if you make enough to avoid that misery, 510 00:25:56,880 --> 00:25:59,240 Speaker 3: you have your family and you have your community religiously grated. 511 00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:01,720 Speaker 3: Is that making it? Isn't the beautiful thing about it 512 00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:05,840 Speaker 3: that it's within reach? Which is absolutely Yeah. Yes, I've 513 00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:08,440 Speaker 3: made it, and I'm very very happy to be where 514 00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:11,439 Speaker 3: I am, and I understand that kind of there but 515 00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:13,440 Speaker 3: for the grace of God go I Because what did 516 00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:15,200 Speaker 3: it require for me to be able to be married 517 00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:18,119 Speaker 3: at the age that I was? That professor in Russian 518 00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:21,080 Speaker 3: literature Jonathan Heights's book at the right time when I 519 00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:23,679 Speaker 3: was in Thailand that could really make an impact. I 520 00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:25,520 Speaker 3: just because I was outside my own culture, I could 521 00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:28,800 Speaker 3: really see how that wisdom made sense. And then Peterson 522 00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:30,639 Speaker 3: doing the interview that he did at the right time 523 00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:34,119 Speaker 3: for that stuff, I probably would still be that annoying 524 00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:36,800 Speaker 3: libertarian atheist and I would not be making it by 525 00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:38,119 Speaker 3: any stretch of the imagination. 526 00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:41,720 Speaker 2: So yeah, I think timing is such a big part 527 00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:43,880 Speaker 2: of everything I talk about that a lot on the show. 528 00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:46,760 Speaker 2: I think we really don't give enough credit to the 529 00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:49,840 Speaker 2: fact that luck plays a role in how while our 530 00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:53,560 Speaker 2: lives go. So a question that I ask on this 531 00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:55,960 Speaker 2: show to all of my guests is what do you 532 00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:58,560 Speaker 2: think is our largest cultural problem? And I want to 533 00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:01,119 Speaker 2: ask you that question, but a little bit differently because 534 00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:03,440 Speaker 2: I think that what you guys work on at Dylan 535 00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:07,560 Speaker 2: Law Group a lot of times is solving cultural problems. 536 00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:10,280 Speaker 2: So what do you think is our largest cultural problem? 537 00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:12,080 Speaker 2: And do you get a chance to work on that 538 00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:13,320 Speaker 2: in your legal career. 539 00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:17,719 Speaker 3: So, fortunately, the answer to that second part is going 540 00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:20,560 Speaker 3: to be yes, which is why I'm happy that you asked. 541 00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:24,480 Speaker 3: So in terms of biggest problems, I think the biggest 542 00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:28,280 Speaker 3: problem is going to be the culture that we were 543 00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:33,560 Speaker 3: suffering under right now, this hyper individualist, god free You're 544 00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:35,560 Speaker 3: going to make your own way, trying to attach yourself 545 00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:37,520 Speaker 3: to some sense of value. But there is nothing really 546 00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:41,920 Speaker 3: transcendent kind of culture. This is a culture that stems 547 00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:44,840 Speaker 3: from modernity. It stems from the developments of science that 548 00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:47,119 Speaker 3: we've had the development of evolutionary through all these things 549 00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:49,840 Speaker 3: that kind of killed the idea of God in reality. 550 00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:54,280 Speaker 3: Now anti evolution my point is what people have taken 551 00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:59,240 Speaker 3: the implications of modern scientific and kind of philosophical developments 552 00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:03,200 Speaker 3: to be is killing God, is killing attachments to culture, 553 00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:05,639 Speaker 3: is killing the idea of anything transcendent. And so what 554 00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:09,280 Speaker 3: do you have with a bunch of very lost individuals 555 00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:13,880 Speaker 3: trying to go onto something new? Humans are believing beings. 556 00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:17,720 Speaker 3: We all believe something. We're worshiping beings. We all worship something. 557 00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:19,840 Speaker 3: The only question is what are you going to worship? 558 00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:23,400 Speaker 3: You can't really worship yourself because you can't ever put 559 00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:26,159 Speaker 3: something above you that's your own level. If you know 560 00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:29,159 Speaker 3: you're creating your values, you know they're arbitrary, you know 561 00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:31,880 Speaker 3: they have no power. Seat can't really worship it. That's 562 00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:34,399 Speaker 3: why I like the existentialist thing. I'm going to be 563 00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:36,720 Speaker 3: my own God. I'm going to upset my own values now, 564 00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:38,560 Speaker 3: you know, because you don't really believe it, because you 565 00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:40,320 Speaker 3: can't believe it because you know it's just from you. 566 00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:43,120 Speaker 3: So what do people end up worshiping appetites where the 567 00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:47,040 Speaker 3: ideal of like a liberated future where everyone is nicer 568 00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:50,240 Speaker 3: and quality or equity has been established. All that stuff. 569 00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:53,280 Speaker 3: People get attached to big causes and you end up 570 00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:58,000 Speaker 3: with leftism being basically the religious placeholder for a lot 571 00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:00,920 Speaker 3: of people. So the culture we have that makes everything 572 00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:04,040 Speaker 3: kind of flattened, people kind of realistic, people very lost, 573 00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:07,520 Speaker 3: is bad. The opening it presented for leptism to sneak 574 00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:09,920 Speaker 3: right in as the new religious state. A lot of 575 00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:12,880 Speaker 3: institutions that's an outgrowth of it. So leptism is like 576 00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:16,240 Speaker 3: the big bad guy, and that is the big problem. 577 00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:19,080 Speaker 3: We have our media pumping out just the worst, most 578 00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:23,040 Speaker 3: cynical kind of revolutionary traite. We have all our educational institutions, 579 00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:26,800 Speaker 3: highest level and also elementary or middle or high school 580 00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:30,960 Speaker 3: pumping out this worldview, this philosophy, this pseudo religion to 581 00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:34,120 Speaker 3: indoctrinate kids in it. We have government agencies filled with 582 00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:38,280 Speaker 3: unaccountable bureaucrats pumping out executive orders or administrative regulations to 583 00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:41,960 Speaker 3: instantiate this more. It's a giant cultural war. We're basically 584 00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:45,040 Speaker 3: in a formal religious war, except it's all normal religions, 585 00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:47,720 Speaker 3: all normal people in culture versus this new kind of 586 00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:52,200 Speaker 3: lefty revolutionary burk. So that's a big bad thing, and 587 00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:54,640 Speaker 3: it is the greatest threat to our country and in 588 00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:56,480 Speaker 3: a way, the gray threat to the West, and therefore 589 00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:58,360 Speaker 3: the rest of the world because this thing will drive 590 00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:01,120 Speaker 3: everything down to the drik. Russia not a great place 591 00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:05,360 Speaker 3: before the Russian Revolution, a much worse place afterwards. China 592 00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:09,120 Speaker 3: not a great place before the revolution, a much place, sorry, 593 00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:13,640 Speaker 3: much worse place after communists won. Things could always be worse. 594 00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:18,440 Speaker 3: So be worse, Always be worse, which is Jewish pieces, 595 00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:21,400 Speaker 3: your faith could always be worse. Be grateful to God 596 00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:24,920 Speaker 3: that it's not to say, yes, this giant lefty leviathan 597 00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:29,040 Speaker 3: that we're up against, but fortunately it is actually really solvable. 598 00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:32,520 Speaker 3: How did the left attain the power that it had, Well, 599 00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:35,920 Speaker 3: it just pushed It did entryism. It put its people 600 00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:40,640 Speaker 3: into institutions. They these revolutionaries cynically would just go to 601 00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:43,280 Speaker 3: the hiring committees where the people wi appoint others or 602 00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:45,400 Speaker 3: set the rules, and they would just put lefty terms 603 00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:47,440 Speaker 3: in the things and our baby. But were parents got 604 00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:50,000 Speaker 3: to welcome and their parents as well. They were too nice. 605 00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:53,080 Speaker 3: They assumed everyone was in good faith. They assumed that Americans, 606 00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:56,000 Speaker 3: as powered people will out disagreement, should just allow the 607 00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:58,560 Speaker 3: left fees in. They didn't realized the threat. They weren't 608 00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:02,160 Speaker 3: cynical enough. And they're understanding of how lefty revolutionaries work. 609 00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:05,200 Speaker 3: There's a big problem with our naive parents and grandparents. 610 00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:08,240 Speaker 3: Because there were such noble people and believing in traditional 611 00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:11,640 Speaker 3: American ideals, they kind of assumed everyone else would hold 612 00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:15,240 Speaker 3: those ideals. Other Americans, even lefty ones, pay by the rules. 613 00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:17,440 Speaker 3: We all want the same things. We just might disagree 614 00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:20,680 Speaker 3: over methods, right right, Nah, you can't chose to communists 615 00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:23,160 Speaker 3: to communists. Wants to make everything communists and the same 616 00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:28,560 Speaker 3: way that you wouldn't allow a crazy Islamist jihadist terrorist 617 00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:32,320 Speaker 3: in and a guy in an organization would operate normally 618 00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:34,160 Speaker 3: along line's decency in Dapora. 619 00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:35,800 Speaker 2: Right, There's no shared values there. 620 00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:39,680 Speaker 3: Yeah exactly. They want something fundamentally different if you and 621 00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:42,560 Speaker 3: I disagree with like a liberal or a center left person. 622 00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:45,560 Speaker 3: They want America to do well. They want everyone to 623 00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:47,640 Speaker 3: have a fair shake of things. They just might have 624 00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:51,680 Speaker 3: different opinions on tax policy or whatever. Fine, I don't 625 00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:54,400 Speaker 3: really care. I don't want their tax policies, really care 626 00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:56,440 Speaker 3: that they exist and are pushing it out there. But 627 00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:58,720 Speaker 3: the commedy, he wants something completely different. 628 00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:00,720 Speaker 2: He wants differences. 629 00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:02,960 Speaker 3: Yeah exactly. They want to burn it all down and 630 00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:05,800 Speaker 3: rebuild it in their own image. That we can't abide that. 631 00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:08,080 Speaker 3: We can't work. So these people were allowed to infiltrate 632 00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:11,360 Speaker 3: everything but their culture and everything. We're seeing the consequences now. 633 00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:14,480 Speaker 3: But the solution is simple. It's not easy, but it's simple. 634 00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:18,200 Speaker 3: Do the politics, do the fights, you run for your 635 00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:21,280 Speaker 3: school board. You don't get intimidated when they in bad faith, 636 00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:25,280 Speaker 3: throughout the racist or the trans bo right, islamophobe. 637 00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:26,080 Speaker 2: You have to just brush it off. 638 00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:29,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, they'll say anything. People were in bad faith, will 639 00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:31,840 Speaker 3: do anything. In the same way that you wouldn't try 640 00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:35,000 Speaker 3: and combat a mugger by saying, well, don't you realize 641 00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:38,600 Speaker 3: that the aggressor here right, don't you realize that that's 642 00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:40,640 Speaker 3: a great point, is wrong and you wouldn't like to 643 00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:43,600 Speaker 3: be mugged. Yeah, they wouldn't like to be mugged. They're 644 00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:45,520 Speaker 3: just rawing on you, not picking up a knife and 645 00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:47,520 Speaker 3: doing it to them, and then being the only one 646 00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:49,680 Speaker 3: willing to do it if they can get away with it. 647 00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:51,880 Speaker 3: They're very happy with the state of affairs, or the 648 00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:54,000 Speaker 3: same thing, like that stereotype of being on the prison 649 00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:56,160 Speaker 3: yard the guy bombs sending you and says, why do 650 00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:59,560 Speaker 3: you knock into me? The correct answer to that is never. Oh, 651 00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:03,240 Speaker 3: I'm so sorry, sir, did I Now you're a mark. 652 00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:05,880 Speaker 3: Now you're to be at the bottom of the total poll, 653 00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:07,560 Speaker 3: and it's going to go very bad for you. Whenever 654 00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:10,600 Speaker 3: anyone in bad faith takes these actions against you, the 655 00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:12,800 Speaker 3: correct thing to do is point out their bad faith, 656 00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:15,360 Speaker 3: never trust them again, strip them of power, and doing 657 00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:17,920 Speaker 3: everything you can to organize the coalitions that that guy 658 00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:20,400 Speaker 3: can't just get away with this again. So it is 659 00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:23,520 Speaker 3: in our schools or in our academia. Right if it's 660 00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:28,000 Speaker 3: a public university, agitate have laws passed to strip them 661 00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:30,680 Speaker 3: of funding, or impose consequences to or put new rules 662 00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:32,640 Speaker 3: in or did a great job at the new college. 663 00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:36,120 Speaker 3: In Christopher Ruffo's participation, there are tools. We just have 664 00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:38,320 Speaker 3: to be willing to use them. The tough part is 665 00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:40,800 Speaker 3: fighting for control. But at least it's a simple proposition. 666 00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:43,640 Speaker 3: We can do it now. Where I step in with 667 00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:47,760 Speaker 3: Dylan Wall Group litigation has a rule and our side 668 00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:51,360 Speaker 3: has been a little delinquent on the lawfare. We all 669 00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:54,400 Speaker 3: know that you do anything that could ever fall within 670 00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:56,880 Speaker 3: kind of the realm of the left's interests. And they 671 00:33:56,960 --> 00:34:01,000 Speaker 3: have a million and one nonprofit legal centers that will 672 00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:03,880 Speaker 3: suit and the threat of litigation means it's kind of 673 00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:09,320 Speaker 3: like a self enforcing regime. Institutions, employment places, whatever that no, 674 00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:11,920 Speaker 3: they could get sued for something hypothetically, which is very 675 00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:15,120 Speaker 3: expensive bill abstained from all manner of action. It creates 676 00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:17,600 Speaker 3: I got silencing effect. 677 00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:18,120 Speaker 2: Right. 678 00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:20,440 Speaker 3: No one wants to do anything that could go against 679 00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:22,680 Speaker 3: slepty pieties because they know they'll be sued into the dirt. 680 00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:25,440 Speaker 3: Even if the lawsuit doesn't succeed, the process is the 681 00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:27,919 Speaker 3: punishment itself. Now, I'm not saying that the right needs 682 00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:30,680 Speaker 3: to do cynical bad faith lawsuits. We just need to 683 00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:33,600 Speaker 3: do lawsuits the right ones that support our people so 684 00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:36,040 Speaker 3: that these institutions think twice because they can't take the 685 00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:39,080 Speaker 3: wallet hit, they can't take the bad publicity reputational bit, 686 00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:41,520 Speaker 3: so they won't try it again. So right now, Dylan 687 00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:46,879 Speaker 3: Wall Group is seeking plaintiffs, students, teachers, employees, you name it, 688 00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:50,399 Speaker 3: anyone who has suffered institutional anti semitism like what we're 689 00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:53,600 Speaker 3: seeing on these campuses, or like what we're seeing the 690 00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:57,120 Speaker 3: teachers unions or other places. You come to us, you 691 00:34:57,160 --> 00:34:59,399 Speaker 3: get in touch with us, We're going to hear you out, 692 00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:01,719 Speaker 3: We're going to at you funding we are going to 693 00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:04,000 Speaker 3: try and fight this stuff because that's the best way 694 00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:06,200 Speaker 3: to fight back. The best way to fight back is 695 00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:06,560 Speaker 3: to fight. 696 00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:09,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, I love that, and I think that that's the 697 00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:13,520 Speaker 2: right path. I think that the cowering and the apologizing 698 00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:17,960 Speaker 2: and trying to talk and have conversations with people who 699 00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:21,120 Speaker 2: don't share any of your values has been entirely pointless. 700 00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:23,160 Speaker 2: I think we've gotten to a place where a lot 701 00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:25,799 Speaker 2: of people realize that. And I love the fighting back 702 00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:28,480 Speaker 2: is really key, and I love that you guys are 703 00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:31,000 Speaker 2: doing it. So I love talking to you. This has 704 00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:34,320 Speaker 2: been so just eye opening and I could keep going, 705 00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:36,600 Speaker 2: but my show is like half an hour. We've hit 706 00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:40,839 Speaker 2: the end. But I wanted to ask you what would 707 00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:44,640 Speaker 2: be your tip for my listeners on how they can 708 00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:47,000 Speaker 2: improve their lives. I think you've done so much to 709 00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:50,600 Speaker 2: improve yours. What advice do you have for people listening 710 00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:51,759 Speaker 2: on how they can do the same. 711 00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:55,719 Speaker 3: Very happy to think about this question, And in my 712 00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:59,719 Speaker 3: own way, what's worked the best for me is the 713 00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:01,640 Speaker 3: best thing you can do for yourself is focus on 714 00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:05,120 Speaker 3: your relationships, because that's really where the locus of your 715 00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:09,480 Speaker 3: happiness is. Anyone who's ever gotten the object or the 716 00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:12,280 Speaker 3: attainment or whatever that they were longing for. If it's material, 717 00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:16,560 Speaker 3: if it's mere reputational, that wears off really quick, right, 718 00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:21,000 Speaker 3: relationships don't. The better the relationships in your life, the 719 00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:23,640 Speaker 3: better your life is. Period. A lot can be taken 720 00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:26,920 Speaker 3: away from you, but you're standing amongst your friends, your family, 721 00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:29,200 Speaker 3: the people who love anything like that, and that is 722 00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:31,360 Speaker 3: what endures. And the samely that we know that you 723 00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:33,840 Speaker 3: get punched in the face, you're not going to feel suicidal. 724 00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:37,319 Speaker 3: Someone defames you or destroys your reputation and harms your relationships, 725 00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:39,920 Speaker 3: that's when you have to be worried about people engaging 726 00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:43,560 Speaker 3: in self harm or worse because of that. So in 727 00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:45,520 Speaker 3: that vein, the best thing you can do is to 728 00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:47,800 Speaker 3: make yourself a more attractive person. And I'm not talking 729 00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:50,800 Speaker 3: about basically, yeah, it'd be fit, look nice, whatever, you 730 00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:53,799 Speaker 3: might feel little better, that's great, but being attractive as 731 00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:55,839 Speaker 3: a personality. And we all know the people in our 732 00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:58,680 Speaker 3: own wives who have attractive personalities, the ones that we 733 00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:00,560 Speaker 3: want to know, the ones who want to engage with 734 00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:04,120 Speaker 3: relationships with. There's no reason why we can't take stents 735 00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:07,799 Speaker 3: to be that way yourselves, being humble, being thoughtful, not 736 00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:10,759 Speaker 3: getting caught up in social scripts upon quote this or that. 737 00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:14,239 Speaker 3: Stand up for yourself, but don't get fixed to arbitrary notions. 738 00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:17,840 Speaker 3: The more attractive a personality, you are, more act in 739 00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:19,360 Speaker 3: the manner that you would want someone else to be 740 00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:21,360 Speaker 3: and that you're drawn to. And we all have examples 741 00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:23,920 Speaker 3: of this in our own lives. The humble grandfather or 742 00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:26,520 Speaker 3: the doting touring mother who was just devoted to her kids. 743 00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:28,560 Speaker 3: And if it was your own mother, that's great. For 744 00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:30,960 Speaker 3: someone in your community, you can see, you just see 745 00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:33,080 Speaker 3: people and we know that is a person. They're not 746 00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:36,120 Speaker 3: magnetic because of charisma. They're just attracting me because it's 747 00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:38,080 Speaker 3: a good soul. And we could all be that way. 748 00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:39,560 Speaker 3: There was a guy in my community who I'm now 749 00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:42,759 Speaker 3: extremely close friends with. When I first met him, he 750 00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:44,520 Speaker 3: was a little obnoxious. He had to have like a 751 00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:47,200 Speaker 3: cutting remark in a little sarcasm. 752 00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:51,000 Speaker 2: Some of us use that as a defense mechanism, okay. 753 00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:53,920 Speaker 3: Which may have think but and I don't know what 754 00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:56,439 Speaker 3: the inflection point was for him, but a few months 755 00:37:56,520 --> 00:38:00,640 Speaker 3: into this he just stopped. He became extremely humble, very thoughtful. 756 00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:03,440 Speaker 3: He connected more with the religion, connected more with the prayer, 757 00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:06,680 Speaker 3: became a leader in the mignon and the prayer events 758 00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:09,080 Speaker 3: that get together in the Jewish community. He completely turned 759 00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:11,480 Speaker 3: it around and no one commented on it. There was 760 00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:14,200 Speaker 3: no big event announcing it wasn't a topic of discussion. 761 00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:16,279 Speaker 3: It just drew more people to them at He's one 762 00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:18,440 Speaker 3: of my abs with best friends and I love spending 763 00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:20,800 Speaker 3: time with them and just reflecting on this kind of 764 00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:23,840 Speaker 3: arc or who recently made me realize that's really encouraging. 765 00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:27,480 Speaker 3: If I'm ever realizing I'm kind of obnoxious or regrading, 766 00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:29,480 Speaker 3: and I'm ever worried about it, you can just do 767 00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:33,279 Speaker 3: things differently. People respond like think trou The last thing 768 00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:36,400 Speaker 3: I'll say related to this is there's again Jordan Peterson 769 00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:39,160 Speaker 3: a really good insight that he has about child development 770 00:38:39,239 --> 00:38:41,720 Speaker 3: because he has a lot of work on the development 771 00:38:41,719 --> 00:38:44,759 Speaker 3: of children psychologically. So his insight is that if a 772 00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:48,440 Speaker 3: child doesn't warn the skills to be engaging with others socially, 773 00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:51,560 Speaker 3: by the time they're wor right to give and to 774 00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:54,480 Speaker 3: take how to work with other people, it is an 775 00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:57,319 Speaker 3: absolute disability for them because other kids will not want 776 00:38:57,360 --> 00:38:59,800 Speaker 3: to engage with them, so they can't learn from engaging 777 00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:01,879 Speaker 3: with the kids They want to press the their relationships, 778 00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:05,239 Speaker 3: and also as importantly, they will not have adults who 779 00:39:05,239 --> 00:39:07,360 Speaker 3: are interested in them. We all know the kids in 780 00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:09,760 Speaker 3: our lives, not even related to us, but community members 781 00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:11,919 Speaker 3: or nieces or nephews, the ones who are a joy 782 00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:13,520 Speaker 3: to spend time with. What do we want to do? 783 00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:16,640 Speaker 3: What are we drawn to do to teach them, to educate, 784 00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:18,160 Speaker 3: to develop them. We take an interest in and we 785 00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:20,520 Speaker 3: want them to succeed for the sheer joy of doing it. 786 00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:24,280 Speaker 3: But we all know the kids who are creating annoying 787 00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:26,319 Speaker 3: them not And what do we do We pull await, 788 00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:28,640 Speaker 3: will be polite to them, to their pers We're not 789 00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:31,280 Speaker 3: going to be jerks, but we're not going to invest 790 00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:34,840 Speaker 3: in them. That doesn't really change. Over time, you're a 791 00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:37,640 Speaker 3: person who is enjoyable and humble and likable and all 792 00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:40,440 Speaker 3: these normal things people will be investing in you will 793 00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:43,200 Speaker 3: get so much more out of there. So any time 794 00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:45,440 Speaker 3: in all Hypernipe been unhappy, it's because ever realized I've 795 00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:48,920 Speaker 3: been acting less attractively and I've been hurting our relationships. 796 00:39:49,560 --> 00:39:51,760 Speaker 3: That is the best thing you can do for yourself 797 00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:52,320 Speaker 3: is work on that. 798 00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:56,160 Speaker 2: I absolutely love that. Thank you so much for coming on. 799 00:39:56,400 --> 00:39:59,719 Speaker 2: Jacob William Roth, You're fantastic. I really enjoyed this conversation. 800 00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:03,520 Speaker 2: Check out Dylan log group. They're doing just such phenomenal work. 801 00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:06,160 Speaker 2: I'm so impressed all the time whenever I hear anything 802 00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:08,320 Speaker 2: you guys are up to. Thanks again for coming on 803 00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:11,560 Speaker 2: and say hi to abiroths for me, Shadre, thank you, Kerl. 804 00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:13,640 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining us on the Carol 805 00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:16,520 Speaker 1: Markowitz Show. Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.