1 00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:20,360 Speaker 1: Lute. If it doesn't work, you're just not using enough. 2 00:00:21,040 --> 00:00:25,840 Speaker 1: You're listening to soft Up Radio, special operations, military news, 3 00:00:26,200 --> 00:00:36,639 Speaker 1: and straight talk with the guys and the community. Hey, everybody, 4 00:00:36,760 --> 00:00:40,320 Speaker 1: welcome back to a wonderful episode of soft Rep Radio. 5 00:00:40,600 --> 00:00:44,160 Speaker 1: I am your host, and I have a special guest today. 6 00:00:44,479 --> 00:00:48,720 Speaker 1: I have the author of The Bullet Garden, Stephen Hunter, 7 00:00:49,240 --> 00:00:52,720 Speaker 1: Pulitzer Prize winner in two thousand three, film critic for 8 00:00:52,760 --> 00:00:58,120 Speaker 1: the Washington Post, has submitted several archives on criticisms of 9 00:00:58,440 --> 00:01:01,160 Speaker 1: film and television, and I have him here right now. 10 00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:04,840 Speaker 1: And I also want to say you're the father of 11 00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:10,640 Speaker 1: the movie Shooter, this bobbly swagger story. Welcome to the show, Stephen, 12 00:01:10,680 --> 00:01:13,400 Speaker 1: Thank you, Thank you very much. And I'm so pleased 13 00:01:13,480 --> 00:01:17,000 Speaker 1: rad that you're interested in the book and my work. Yeah, 14 00:01:17,080 --> 00:01:18,920 Speaker 1: I am interested in it. First of all, I'm a 15 00:01:18,959 --> 00:01:23,680 Speaker 1: huge fan of the show Shooter, the movie the TV show. 16 00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:27,680 Speaker 1: Now I'm actually talking about the movie and the show. 17 00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:31,399 Speaker 1: Both of them actually have a really cool appeal to them. 18 00:01:31,640 --> 00:01:33,200 Speaker 1: The movie though, that I think a lot of my 19 00:01:33,240 --> 00:01:36,679 Speaker 1: listeners have probably seen already, with Mark Wahlberg and Danny Glover. 20 00:01:37,240 --> 00:01:41,039 Speaker 1: What was that like to see your thoughts put on 21 00:01:41,120 --> 00:01:45,000 Speaker 1: the paper, come to a movie, that's my question. Yes, Well, 22 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:48,240 Speaker 1: the answer is that it was like seeing your dream 23 00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:52,480 Speaker 1: in someone else's head, in the sense that everything was 24 00:01:52,600 --> 00:01:56,800 Speaker 1: familiar but wrong. In other words, I had a certain 25 00:01:56,840 --> 00:02:01,080 Speaker 1: ideal projection of the action, and in my brain the 26 00:02:01,160 --> 00:02:05,440 Speaker 1: camera was to the left, and in Antoine Fukes brain 27 00:02:05,840 --> 00:02:08,560 Speaker 1: it was to the right, And so what I saw 28 00:02:09,120 --> 00:02:15,200 Speaker 1: was incredibly familiar and felt real and vivid to me. 29 00:02:15,720 --> 00:02:18,760 Speaker 1: But it was somehow it was like for a lens 30 00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:24,320 Speaker 1: of irreality. If I can say, it was just slightly strange. 31 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:28,079 Speaker 1: It was like being in a Netflix science fiction series. 32 00:02:28,160 --> 00:02:30,280 Speaker 1: If you want to know the truth, it's just a 33 00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:33,399 Speaker 1: little dislocating. I think it's the word. I mean, it's 34 00:02:33,440 --> 00:02:37,920 Speaker 1: just it just wasn't what. It wasn't what I imagined. 35 00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:41,000 Speaker 1: And I thought the movie worked pretty well up to 36 00:02:41,040 --> 00:02:44,560 Speaker 1: a point. They had problems with the ending. They didn't 37 00:02:44,639 --> 00:02:47,359 Speaker 1: like my ending that was the original ending, and they 38 00:02:47,720 --> 00:02:51,520 Speaker 1: jiggered it up a little and it just didn't. They 39 00:02:51,520 --> 00:02:54,720 Speaker 1: put this other ending on where Bob kicks down the 40 00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:58,320 Speaker 1: door and executes a bunch of old men, and I 41 00:02:58,360 --> 00:03:01,680 Speaker 1: didn't think that worked too well, and I tried to 42 00:03:01,720 --> 00:03:05,280 Speaker 1: get it changed, but at that point in the production, 43 00:03:05,840 --> 00:03:08,920 Speaker 1: I had the influence of a gnat would have on 44 00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:12,720 Speaker 1: the USS enterprise, and so I went out the way 45 00:03:12,760 --> 00:03:14,840 Speaker 1: it went out. And I can live with it. I 46 00:03:14,880 --> 00:03:18,440 Speaker 1: suppose people respond to it has acquired a kind of 47 00:03:18,440 --> 00:03:23,560 Speaker 1: a cult status, and that makes me very happy. Right 48 00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:26,040 Speaker 1: Like the scene worth Bob Swagger has been captured and 49 00:03:26,120 --> 00:03:29,560 Speaker 1: he's handcuffed and he's in the office room with the 50 00:03:29,600 --> 00:03:31,800 Speaker 1: big office table and Danny Glover and everybody's all standing 51 00:03:31,880 --> 00:03:33,960 Speaker 1: or sitting around, and he's like, that's my rifle, right, 52 00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:36,280 Speaker 1: that one right there? Right? You haven't touched this since 53 00:03:36,280 --> 00:03:37,920 Speaker 1: you took it. Right, it puts a bullet in it, 54 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:41,680 Speaker 1: he pointed to Clover. I can shoot Danny Glover right click. Actually, 55 00:03:41,720 --> 00:03:43,360 Speaker 1: I do love that. See I have that scene in 56 00:03:43,400 --> 00:03:46,000 Speaker 1: my head. Okay, I'm just letting you know. That's my 57 00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:50,200 Speaker 1: that was that was writ Yeah, He's like, hey, I know, 58 00:03:50,240 --> 00:03:51,720 Speaker 1: I'll put it down. We're all good. No, no, no, 59 00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:54,360 Speaker 1: no, no no, d click. It didn't boom. See Danny Glover lived. 60 00:03:55,960 --> 00:03:58,720 Speaker 1: Couldn't have been meat Bro could have been me. I 61 00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:02,160 Speaker 1: seriously love that. I mean really, it's funny. Well the 62 00:04:02,200 --> 00:04:04,160 Speaker 1: way you do a book like that, as you keep 63 00:04:04,200 --> 00:04:06,640 Speaker 1: going at it because it's a very hard book to write. 64 00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:10,360 Speaker 1: Is you reward yourself by getting to the big scenes, 65 00:04:10,520 --> 00:04:13,640 Speaker 1: and the big scenes are always the candy part, the 66 00:04:13,680 --> 00:04:16,800 Speaker 1: dessert of writing the book. It was such a relief 67 00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:20,000 Speaker 1: and it was so pleasing to get to that point 68 00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:22,960 Speaker 1: and to write that scene. And actually it was a 69 00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:24,960 Speaker 1: very tough book to write because it's got a lot 70 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:27,320 Speaker 1: of cuckoo birds that have got to pop out of 71 00:04:27,360 --> 00:04:29,840 Speaker 1: the clock at exactly the right moment, and if there 72 00:04:29,839 --> 00:04:33,120 Speaker 1: are a second earlier or second late, it doesn't work. 73 00:04:33,640 --> 00:04:36,640 Speaker 1: And they kept popping out at the wrong time, and no, no, 74 00:04:36,920 --> 00:04:40,240 Speaker 1: what the hell was wrong with me? But finally, four 75 00:04:40,320 --> 00:04:44,279 Speaker 1: years later, I got most of the cuckoos in most 76 00:04:44,320 --> 00:04:46,599 Speaker 1: of the right holes, and it was it sort of 77 00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:48,479 Speaker 1: put me on the map. So I loved the book. 78 00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:52,320 Speaker 1: It gave me the rest of my life because I 79 00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:56,599 Speaker 1: found Bob Lee so interesting that I had to know 80 00:04:56,720 --> 00:04:58,920 Speaker 1: more about him, and the only way to learn more 81 00:04:58,960 --> 00:05:02,760 Speaker 1: about him was write more books. So here, right, that's right? 82 00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:05,839 Speaker 1: All these years later, Yeah, that's right, And that's a 83 00:05:05,880 --> 00:05:10,200 Speaker 1: great segue into you got bobbly swagger of modern two thousand's. 84 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:13,640 Speaker 1: But then you jump back and go precursor to World 85 00:05:13,640 --> 00:05:18,159 Speaker 1: War two. Father, that's right, and what a great book. Okay, 86 00:05:18,240 --> 00:05:20,160 Speaker 1: I've been reading it and I've been getting into it, 87 00:05:20,240 --> 00:05:23,120 Speaker 1: and you really right for me to understand. I don't 88 00:05:23,160 --> 00:05:27,400 Speaker 1: know if that makes you. There's some people sort of 89 00:05:27,480 --> 00:05:29,960 Speaker 1: dry up and blow away when I go into the 90 00:05:30,040 --> 00:05:33,560 Speaker 1: gun stuff. But that's what sort of made me want 91 00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:35,760 Speaker 1: to do this for a living. And people say, why 92 00:05:35,760 --> 00:05:38,919 Speaker 1: don't you leave that out? And there would be no 93 00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:42,359 Speaker 1: point in writing the day if you left that out. 94 00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:44,520 Speaker 1: It's just the way that he kneels next to the 95 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:46,760 Speaker 1: boys on the firing line, you know, the way that 96 00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:48,560 Speaker 1: he's kneeling next to them, and like the way that 97 00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:50,520 Speaker 1: they're talking about their grants, and the way that you 98 00:05:50,520 --> 00:05:51,880 Speaker 1: can see it in his eyes. He doesn't have to 99 00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:54,200 Speaker 1: wear ribbons to show you that he's been there, you 100 00:05:54,279 --> 00:05:58,000 Speaker 1: know what A yes, you're welcome. Right. And the first chapter, 101 00:05:58,200 --> 00:06:05,960 Speaker 1: if I remember, is He's God was late. Yeah, right, 102 00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:07,720 Speaker 1: that's the first thing. I was just like, Okay, God, 103 00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:10,279 Speaker 1: what are we doing? Religion? And as you start reading, 104 00:06:10,279 --> 00:06:18,000 Speaker 1: you're like, oh, I had a god like that as well. Yeah. 105 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:20,479 Speaker 1: So as I read this book and I get into it, 106 00:06:20,520 --> 00:06:23,960 Speaker 1: and I see that it's about really they're anticipating the 107 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:26,480 Speaker 1: invasion in Normandy and along the coast between the Isle 108 00:06:26,520 --> 00:06:29,279 Speaker 1: of White and the Channel English Channel. There was something 109 00:06:29,279 --> 00:06:32,000 Speaker 1: going on over there during the World War two, and 110 00:06:32,080 --> 00:06:36,080 Speaker 1: Germany was prepping itself to anticipate which beach or where 111 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:38,919 Speaker 1: it's gonna happen. So they fortified all of the beach 112 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:41,159 Speaker 1: up and down Utah and oh Maha and all of 113 00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:46,159 Speaker 1: those different beachheads. And then not only fortified structures, and 114 00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:49,039 Speaker 1: not only put in like panzers and all these different 115 00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:53,839 Speaker 1: medacine war machines, they put in snipers. Yes they did. 116 00:06:55,040 --> 00:06:57,080 Speaker 1: They knew what they were doing. They're very good at 117 00:06:57,080 --> 00:07:00,480 Speaker 1: their craft, there's no doubt about that, and were over. 118 00:07:00,600 --> 00:07:04,400 Speaker 1: They were aided by one of the great intelligence failures 119 00:07:04,440 --> 00:07:08,720 Speaker 1: of the war, which was our planner's inability to understand 120 00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:13,400 Speaker 1: the terraine of not the beaches, but the bocage. That 121 00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:16,280 Speaker 1: is what was behind the beaches. And it was a 122 00:07:16,400 --> 00:07:22,720 Speaker 1: landscape full of ravines, small hills, trees, very tough and 123 00:07:22,760 --> 00:07:26,160 Speaker 1: negotiated hedgerows. You know you needed a tank to get 124 00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:29,600 Speaker 1: through that, you really did. It was like walls. And 125 00:07:29,640 --> 00:07:32,480 Speaker 1: we walked into that thinking we just stroll through it, 126 00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:35,920 Speaker 1: and it turned out to be a brutal battle, and 127 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:39,160 Speaker 1: it killed a lot of people on both sides, and 128 00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:43,320 Speaker 1: it put us way behind schedule and basically humiliated us 129 00:07:43,840 --> 00:07:45,840 Speaker 1: in front of the eyes of the British and the 130 00:07:45,880 --> 00:07:49,600 Speaker 1: other allies. You know, suddenly we were back on guadal Canal, 131 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:54,120 Speaker 1: except it was two hundred times larger, and it was 132 00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:58,120 Speaker 1: very much a jungle Terraine is what it felt like. Eventually, 133 00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:02,320 Speaker 1: finally they figured out how to beat it, and I 134 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:05,280 Speaker 1: took that as a starting point, and I added some 135 00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:08,840 Speaker 1: typical swagger issues to it. And I brought Swagger in 136 00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:12,920 Speaker 1: from the Marine Corps. Just in case people think, g 137 00:08:13,520 --> 00:08:17,000 Speaker 1: how did he end up in Normandy. Well, he's recruited 138 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:21,440 Speaker 1: by OSS, which did this, and Dave's commissioned a temporary 139 00:08:21,520 --> 00:08:25,200 Speaker 1: major in the United States Army attached to OSS, and 140 00:08:25,240 --> 00:08:29,080 Speaker 1: it gives him mobility and rank, chance to be an officer. 141 00:08:29,160 --> 00:08:32,000 Speaker 1: I never wrote a book about an officer before because 142 00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:35,200 Speaker 1: I was not an officer and I did not like officers. 143 00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:38,680 Speaker 1: But doing it, I found that I got a new 144 00:08:38,720 --> 00:08:43,559 Speaker 1: respect for the officer class and good officers crucial but 145 00:08:43,679 --> 00:08:48,240 Speaker 1: military operations a sass of all my books. But writing 146 00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:50,840 Speaker 1: the book was such fun. It was such pleasure. I 147 00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:53,680 Speaker 1: just enjoyed every second of it. I mean, for many 148 00:08:53,760 --> 00:08:56,040 Speaker 1: people writing as a labor and then believe me, it 149 00:08:56,160 --> 00:08:58,840 Speaker 1: can be a labor. And I've gone through plenty of labor, 150 00:08:59,160 --> 00:09:03,960 Speaker 1: but sometimes gets to joy. It's just everything just messed cleverly. 151 00:09:04,520 --> 00:09:06,880 Speaker 1: The book is cleverer than I am. I don't know 152 00:09:06,880 --> 00:09:10,880 Speaker 1: how who made it clever. Maybe my wife came down 153 00:09:10,880 --> 00:09:15,600 Speaker 1: at night. You did, Yeah, she did? It was the wife. Yes, 154 00:09:15,679 --> 00:09:22,959 Speaker 1: it's your wife. Always always praise her. Yes, thanks Jen, 155 00:09:23,160 --> 00:09:26,760 Speaker 1: I love YouTube, babe. I'm gonna give my wife a 156 00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:29,240 Speaker 1: shout out. We love them. No, for sure. Now, I 157 00:09:29,280 --> 00:09:31,520 Speaker 1: think that reading through the book, somewhere in the middle 158 00:09:31,520 --> 00:09:34,200 Speaker 1: of the chapters, they're around sleep, I think is where 159 00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:36,840 Speaker 1: I'm at. Okay, I think I've gotten into that far. 160 00:09:37,240 --> 00:09:40,679 Speaker 1: And they're talking about the maps and the different topography, 161 00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:43,760 Speaker 1: and they're trying to figure out so what happens. Not 162 00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:45,640 Speaker 1: to give away the book, you should read it, but 163 00:09:45,720 --> 00:09:47,400 Speaker 1: it's troops getting in and how do they get further 164 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:49,880 Speaker 1: inland and why are they being pushed back? And where's 165 00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:52,480 Speaker 1: the bottlenecks in war? And and they pull out these 166 00:09:52,520 --> 00:09:54,960 Speaker 1: maps and they're starting to point out these different areas 167 00:09:55,320 --> 00:09:58,600 Speaker 1: the one major and everybody's all talking about like daytime, nighttime, 168 00:09:58,960 --> 00:10:00,960 Speaker 1: you know, should it? And he's like, but our night 169 00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:03,640 Speaker 1: time is different. Okay, we're going with an hour before 170 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:06,920 Speaker 1: Sundayn or fifteen minutes I think prior to fifteen minutes 171 00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:08,959 Speaker 1: after right when you have peep sites, you know, just 172 00:10:09,120 --> 00:10:12,360 Speaker 1: enough to still probably see something. And they're tripping. They're like, 173 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:16,680 Speaker 1: do they have night vision? Like what's going on? You 174 00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:20,520 Speaker 1: can only imagine the morale that the platoons, like your 175 00:10:20,520 --> 00:10:23,600 Speaker 1: book writes about, like it would just go through the 176 00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:26,079 Speaker 1: whole thing like they see in the dark. Well, I 177 00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:29,520 Speaker 1: had working out those a book like this can't be 178 00:10:29,640 --> 00:10:32,360 Speaker 1: all action. I mean, I love writing action, and I 179 00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:35,400 Speaker 1: think I'm okay at it. But there's also got to 180 00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:39,559 Speaker 1: be mistery and entry and you've got different notes to play. 181 00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:41,560 Speaker 1: I mean, the novel is a symphony. It's not a 182 00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:45,280 Speaker 1: pop song. It's got its last long time, and it's 183 00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:48,720 Speaker 1: got periods of rest. It's got to have comic relief. 184 00:10:48,840 --> 00:10:52,240 Speaker 1: It's got to have things strangeness to it that seems 185 00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:55,360 Speaker 1: to be related to nothing but then ultimately comes in 186 00:10:55,600 --> 00:10:58,520 Speaker 1: and when it works is one of the magical experiences 187 00:10:58,920 --> 00:11:01,720 Speaker 1: A reader can have, you know, I hope at least 188 00:11:01,760 --> 00:11:04,040 Speaker 1: for some people like give them that kind of magic 189 00:11:04,640 --> 00:11:09,640 Speaker 1: that was the whole Well, hey, it's been pretty magical. 190 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:12,319 Speaker 1: I like it so far, so good, And again I 191 00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:14,160 Speaker 1: don't want to give away. I just want to talk 192 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:16,680 Speaker 1: to you about it. But like with this premise of 193 00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:18,560 Speaker 1: like you should go out and get this book, you know, 194 00:11:18,640 --> 00:11:22,680 Speaker 1: Stephen Hunters The Bullet Garden, which is coming out real soon. 195 00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:24,360 Speaker 1: I think if it's not already out by the time 196 00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:27,360 Speaker 1: this podcast goes out, that the actual hub day is 197 00:11:27,520 --> 00:11:32,960 Speaker 1: or was January, right, So we're right around that time 198 00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:35,839 Speaker 1: frame right now. So this should hopefully go out and 199 00:11:36,040 --> 00:11:38,280 Speaker 1: maybe at least get you one more person to buy 200 00:11:38,320 --> 00:11:42,040 Speaker 1: your book and listen and read it. I love it, 201 00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:44,160 Speaker 1: you know. Of course we'll have it put into the 202 00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:47,320 Speaker 1: description below. You know, as we get this all put together. 203 00:11:47,400 --> 00:11:51,520 Speaker 1: But what was it that made you right about swagger? 204 00:11:51,760 --> 00:11:53,559 Speaker 1: You know? Is that just something that you dealt with? 205 00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:55,520 Speaker 1: Did do you want to go back do you want 206 00:11:55,520 --> 00:11:57,560 Speaker 1: to talk about this book or do you want to 207 00:11:57,559 --> 00:12:00,480 Speaker 1: go back way at the beginning where it came from? Yeah, 208 00:12:00,559 --> 00:12:03,240 Speaker 1: just swagger in general, your whole concept for them there 209 00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:06,520 Speaker 1: is loosely model on Carlo's Half Cock. I had read 210 00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:09,880 Speaker 1: there's a very good now it's a very well written 211 00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:14,120 Speaker 1: biography of half Cock called Marine Sniper Plug bat Book. 212 00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:18,080 Speaker 1: I thought probably it had some exaggerations in it. I 213 00:12:18,120 --> 00:12:21,120 Speaker 1: was taken with the figure of the sniper, whom I 214 00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:25,560 Speaker 1: saw as a intellectual of war. That is to say, 215 00:12:25,760 --> 00:12:29,920 Speaker 1: he is apart from the action. He's also apart from 216 00:12:29,920 --> 00:12:32,719 Speaker 1: his unit. People don't know quite how to treat him 217 00:12:32,760 --> 00:12:36,319 Speaker 1: because he is the killer, and that makes him special, 218 00:12:36,600 --> 00:12:39,520 Speaker 1: and it makes people nervous. I always say he's like 219 00:12:39,559 --> 00:12:41,600 Speaker 1: a gun in the house. You know, a lot of 220 00:12:41,640 --> 00:12:44,280 Speaker 1: people are gun in the house. Scares them. They know 221 00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:46,200 Speaker 1: they have to have it, they know they want to 222 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:48,800 Speaker 1: have it, but they don't want to know anything about it. 223 00:12:48,840 --> 00:12:52,400 Speaker 1: And that's stupid and foolish because if they ever need it, 224 00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:54,160 Speaker 1: they won't know what to do with it, and they'll 225 00:12:54,320 --> 00:12:57,080 Speaker 1: hurt themselves instead of the person they're trying to hurt. 226 00:12:57,880 --> 00:13:03,400 Speaker 1: And he knew things. He had seen things that made 227 00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:08,920 Speaker 1: him an extremely close student of war. But the expense 228 00:13:09,040 --> 00:13:13,120 Speaker 1: of that knowledge was his exile. He made people nervous. 229 00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:17,000 Speaker 1: People whodn't know what happened to him. They didn't want 230 00:13:17,040 --> 00:13:19,720 Speaker 1: to hear about him, and he understood that he paid 231 00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:23,320 Speaker 1: a heavy penalty for his efforts. I thought that was very, 232 00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:27,880 Speaker 1: very interesting. So the arc of a that book and 233 00:13:27,920 --> 00:13:31,679 Speaker 1: the arc of all the other books has been his 234 00:13:31,880 --> 00:13:37,520 Speaker 1: return to civilization. You know, we find him initially exiled, 235 00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:41,840 Speaker 1: and we watches he becomes married, he becomes a father, 236 00:13:42,440 --> 00:13:45,600 Speaker 1: he comes to terms with his past. He uses his 237 00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:51,520 Speaker 1: high intelligence to work with several law enforcement issues, and 238 00:13:51,559 --> 00:13:58,360 Speaker 1: he becomes a valuable, highly valuable asset for various entities, 239 00:13:58,400 --> 00:14:02,520 Speaker 1: primarily the FBI, back when the FBI was good. And 240 00:14:02,640 --> 00:14:05,640 Speaker 1: that was fun. And on top of that, I then 241 00:14:06,440 --> 00:14:10,719 Speaker 1: re entered him in many issues. I used him as 242 00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:17,080 Speaker 1: a vessel to reevaluate and re respect other people who 243 00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:19,200 Speaker 1: had been at the point of the point of spear. 244 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:23,480 Speaker 1: I mean, it always bothered me that essence of war 245 00:14:23,640 --> 00:14:28,640 Speaker 1: is so buried under euphemism, and the military uses the euphemism. 246 00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:31,720 Speaker 1: It begins with them. But it is about killing. The 247 00:14:31,760 --> 00:14:37,720 Speaker 1: people who kill for us deserve respect, admiration, and most 248 00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:43,000 Speaker 1: of all, emotional support. This was about him achieving that, 249 00:14:43,240 --> 00:14:46,000 Speaker 1: and it sort of is his real battle against his 250 00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:49,600 Speaker 1: against his own culture. That's the secret battle. And I 251 00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:52,720 Speaker 1: have to say and I don't know if I'm responsible 252 00:14:52,760 --> 00:14:55,200 Speaker 1: for this, but there has been a movement in the 253 00:14:55,240 --> 00:15:02,040 Speaker 1: past twenty years by which the sniper has become somewhat rehabilitated. 254 00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:06,400 Speaker 1: And he's not, you know, the lone psycho who enjoys 255 00:15:06,520 --> 00:15:10,120 Speaker 1: killing people, but he's a technician who takes a terrible 256 00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:15,720 Speaker 1: responsibility on and does a very very difficult job, both 257 00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:21,440 Speaker 1: tactically and emotionally, and he deserves our respect, in our admiration. 258 00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:24,680 Speaker 1: And that of course stands for all the operators. It 259 00:15:24,760 --> 00:15:27,960 Speaker 1: stands for all the outfits who the Delta, who do steals, 260 00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:31,880 Speaker 1: who do police swat and you know, there's this whole 261 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:37,080 Speaker 1: movement about in which these men are essentially destroyed or 262 00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:41,280 Speaker 1: weakened or held in contempt. Now that's so wrong. You 263 00:15:41,280 --> 00:15:45,440 Speaker 1: should never mock the legion because when the huns get 264 00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:48,560 Speaker 1: to the river, you want the look in there. And 265 00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:53,080 Speaker 1: if you've mocked the legion, you've oos grade yourself, if 266 00:15:53,080 --> 00:15:58,320 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. And I think there's a 267 00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:00,680 Speaker 1: company called the Route Tactic Hold that makes a lot 268 00:16:00,680 --> 00:16:03,080 Speaker 1: of components for guns and equipment, and they have a 269 00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:06,480 Speaker 1: saying a bumper sticker, and it says God bless our troops, 270 00:16:06,640 --> 00:16:11,160 Speaker 1: especially are snipers. Yeah right, and so give them a 271 00:16:11,160 --> 00:16:12,960 Speaker 1: little shout out, a little plug for their they have 272 00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:16,000 Speaker 1: like armadillo seasoning for their roast that you can get 273 00:16:16,080 --> 00:16:20,920 Speaker 1: from LaRue and other things. But it's true, and I 274 00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:23,520 Speaker 1: have to just listen to what you're saying. This website 275 00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:28,280 Speaker 1: is founded by the sniper culture. Sniper's Brandon Webb is 276 00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:33,560 Speaker 1: the former Navy Seal Headmaster Sniper instructor. So he's transitioned 277 00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:37,320 Speaker 1: himself into from being that sniper, right, being that training 278 00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:40,240 Speaker 1: that Navy seal to an author as well, and like 279 00:16:40,560 --> 00:16:43,480 Speaker 1: trying to react with me back into society and be 280 00:16:43,560 --> 00:16:46,280 Speaker 1: a regular dude just moving along. And yeah he did 281 00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:48,800 Speaker 1: that one time. Well you know what I'm saying. That's 282 00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:51,200 Speaker 1: very to and the same. If I have a friend, 283 00:16:51,760 --> 00:16:53,520 Speaker 1: I know his real name, but the name he goes 284 00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:56,920 Speaker 1: by these days as Jack Carr, and he has been normal, 285 00:16:57,120 --> 00:17:00,000 Speaker 1: Oh yeah sure. As a writer, he is a former 286 00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:05,280 Speaker 1: seal sniper and that fills me with warmth. He's been 287 00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:08,080 Speaker 1: very good to me. I mean I knew him before 288 00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:11,720 Speaker 1: he was anybody and now he's everybody. But he's been 289 00:17:11,840 --> 00:17:14,600 Speaker 1: very good to me, and I have always appreciated his 290 00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:17,880 Speaker 1: friendship and his support and that makes me happy. Yeah. 291 00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:20,960 Speaker 1: Through the social media, he and I have King Pong 292 00:17:21,080 --> 00:17:25,480 Speaker 1: to back and forth here and there. You see his work. 293 00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:27,919 Speaker 1: I think that gets you through the six months of 294 00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:32,280 Speaker 1: seal training. You still see that in him. The guy 295 00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:36,800 Speaker 1: works like crazy. Every time I email, like Jack, calm down, 296 00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:40,200 Speaker 1: have a drink, take a day off, because he just 297 00:17:40,359 --> 00:17:43,239 Speaker 1: turns out a book a day, or if it's not 298 00:17:43,280 --> 00:17:45,720 Speaker 1: a book a day, but a book a year. The same. 299 00:17:48,040 --> 00:17:53,040 Speaker 1: He's focused, he's involved in TV, he's sometimes this political commentary. 300 00:17:53,400 --> 00:17:56,920 Speaker 1: He just really really works himself to the bone. He's 301 00:17:56,960 --> 00:18:01,280 Speaker 1: got some good genes in that respect. Yeah. He says 302 00:18:01,320 --> 00:18:03,760 Speaker 1: about you, he says, a true master at the pinnacle 303 00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:06,560 Speaker 1: of his craft. No one does it better. Jack Carr, 304 00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:08,920 Speaker 1: former Navy seal sniper at number one New York Times 305 00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:12,240 Speaker 1: bestselling author of In the Blood. So he gives you 306 00:18:12,280 --> 00:18:13,760 Speaker 1: that shout out on the back of your book that 307 00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:15,919 Speaker 1: you're so proud of, and that's the first one. And 308 00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:17,400 Speaker 1: I read that like, who did you get a shout 309 00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:21,200 Speaker 1: out from here? You know? And Jack Carr, right, fellow Utah, 310 00:18:21,320 --> 00:18:26,000 Speaker 1: he's here in Utah. Have actually hung out with yeah, exactly. 311 00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:29,359 Speaker 1: He's a very decent guy. He's not arrogant or you 312 00:18:29,359 --> 00:18:31,760 Speaker 1: know a lot of them are rustle guys. He's not 313 00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:34,520 Speaker 1: particularly in muscular. I mean, if you saw him in 314 00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:38,040 Speaker 1: a shopping mall, you never think this guy did six 315 00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:43,119 Speaker 1: tours in Afghanistan as a sniper. You think, oh, sons 316 00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:51,040 Speaker 1: software down at Uh yeah, yeah, Well that's the chameleon 317 00:18:51,119 --> 00:18:54,440 Speaker 1: nous of a sniper, right. It's like me, I'm six 318 00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:57,920 Speaker 1: ft five pounds on the size of a linebacker. It's 319 00:18:57,920 --> 00:18:59,760 Speaker 1: just gonna be hard for me to blend in like that. 320 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:02,600 Speaker 1: But you know, guys that pay attention to the surroundings 321 00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:05,120 Speaker 1: and what they're involved in, they contend to just get 322 00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:07,840 Speaker 1: right in and get right out and take care of business. 323 00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:10,400 Speaker 1: That's right. That is right, it is And I would 324 00:19:10,440 --> 00:19:14,000 Speaker 1: say that when you're writing, what is it that just like, Okay, 325 00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:16,000 Speaker 1: I have to write this book. You know this book 326 00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:18,639 Speaker 1: is on my publisher needs a book. Or is this 327 00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:20,960 Speaker 1: more like, hey, it's you write the book and your 328 00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:23,000 Speaker 1: publisher is just happy when you write it and give 329 00:19:23,040 --> 00:19:25,000 Speaker 1: it to them. You know what I'm saying, Like, how's 330 00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:28,960 Speaker 1: that process? Well, it's not necessarily easy, even to someone 331 00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:31,560 Speaker 1: who's had a little bit of success. For me, I 332 00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:35,399 Speaker 1: was on there a two book contract. That one is 333 00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:37,760 Speaker 1: a certain publisher. I'm not gonna name names, and they 334 00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:40,840 Speaker 1: want to get too detailed here, but they had a 335 00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:43,719 Speaker 1: certain idea for a direction I should take, and that 336 00:19:43,880 --> 00:19:46,280 Speaker 1: was the kind of books that they wanted to publish. 337 00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:50,400 Speaker 1: And that direction my last two books, Game of Snipers 338 00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:53,840 Speaker 1: and Targeted was sort of the direction they wanted me 339 00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:59,160 Speaker 1: to go. That is, hard edge, contemporary, fast paced snipers, 340 00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:02,520 Speaker 1: sniper hunt books, that sort of things. You know, I 341 00:20:02,560 --> 00:20:05,359 Speaker 1: can do that. I am happy to do that, but 342 00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:07,480 Speaker 1: I don't want to only do that. And I've had 343 00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:11,280 Speaker 1: this idea for a World War Two novel. I loved 344 00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:13,760 Speaker 1: the great World War Two novels. They were just stay 345 00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:18,080 Speaker 1: illuminated my boyhood, and I wanted to pay tribute to them. 346 00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:22,320 Speaker 1: I had in mind book that would be longer, more complex, 347 00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:27,399 Speaker 1: would have more characters, and more issues. Would also be 348 00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:31,000 Speaker 1: if you'll excuse the expression of wallow in World War 349 00:20:31,119 --> 00:20:34,680 Speaker 1: two culture, you know, and I try really to recreate 350 00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:38,639 Speaker 1: those years, what it looked like and hopefully what it 351 00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:44,119 Speaker 1: felt like, and that this particular publisher wasn't too interested 352 00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:49,359 Speaker 1: in that. So for commentated reasons, my agent got me 353 00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:53,720 Speaker 1: out of that deal. It only costs me seventeen thousand dollars. 354 00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:57,840 Speaker 1: But of course she made contact with the Emily Best 355 00:20:57,920 --> 00:21:03,040 Speaker 1: here at time and Schuster. Emily is a great publishers. 356 00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:07,840 Speaker 1: She publishes Jack and she publishes Brad over many of 357 00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:11,200 Speaker 1: the others. She was really into Flowers and she thought 358 00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:14,359 Speaker 1: highly of me, and she was very supportive of me. 359 00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:18,040 Speaker 1: In fact that I was halfway fan was Targeted, and 360 00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:21,920 Speaker 1: she bought Targeted and so that was an Emily Best 361 00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:24,560 Speaker 1: for your book. But this was the book that I 362 00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:29,000 Speaker 1: really wanted to write, a variety of reasons, and and 363 00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:32,760 Speaker 1: they were very supportive. And it's a very handsome book. 364 00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:35,360 Speaker 1: You know, it doesn't look like a what can I say, 365 00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:39,840 Speaker 1: then it look cheesy? I don't think. No, it's true. 366 00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:42,800 Speaker 1: It looks classy when I got this. When I got 367 00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:45,800 Speaker 1: the book and I picked it up, I was like, Okay, 368 00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:47,919 Speaker 1: it's a big book. And then I opened it up. 369 00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:49,119 Speaker 1: I started reading on it, and I was like, I 370 00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:50,920 Speaker 1: gotta have to give this a look. And the fact 371 00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:53,280 Speaker 1: that it's hard and it's a book like this makes 372 00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:56,639 Speaker 1: me want to read it. It's not the tablet, you know, 373 00:21:56,760 --> 00:21:59,320 Speaker 1: I'm not having to like, you know, charge it. It's 374 00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:02,000 Speaker 1: like No, there's something about reading a book right without 375 00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:05,440 Speaker 1: having to swipe, because we're taught to read like that, 376 00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:08,000 Speaker 1: you know, like turn the page, turned the page, and 377 00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:10,879 Speaker 1: so so really I'm excited. He literally are like for 378 00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:16,120 Speaker 1: literacy the last I guess you're you're sure of an 379 00:22:16,119 --> 00:22:19,080 Speaker 1: outlier for your age. But I'm in the last thank 380 00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:25,679 Speaker 1: you book reading uh generation. And I love the book, 381 00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:28,320 Speaker 1: you know, and I love everything. I love the jacket 382 00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:32,119 Speaker 1: copy and not this book, but any book. Favorite things 383 00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:35,000 Speaker 1: is coming up with what they call on epigram and 384 00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:38,359 Speaker 1: that's just a little quote to start the book. And 385 00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:42,840 Speaker 1: I spend days and go through twenty different iterations just 386 00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:47,280 Speaker 1: trying to get the perfect epigram. And that's enormous fun. 387 00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:51,200 Speaker 1: I can't tell you how much fun it is, you know. 388 00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:53,359 Speaker 1: I just reach over here and I have my Buddies book. 389 00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:56,320 Speaker 1: Brandon's from the website, and he's got the same style. 390 00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:59,399 Speaker 1: It's that nice, really good. Oh yeah, we'll put him 391 00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:01,960 Speaker 1: together right there. See, Brandon Webb's got Steel Fear right 392 00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:05,200 Speaker 1: here with webbing, David Mann, we got Stephen Hunter right here. 393 00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:08,479 Speaker 1: I'm just saying, you know, there's something about these books. Now. 394 00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:11,040 Speaker 1: I read this cover to cover to to to narrating. 395 00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:15,720 Speaker 1: I'll be happy to pitch. Oh well, hey, I'm sure 396 00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:17,960 Speaker 1: he'll listen. He listens to the show each one. Yeah, 397 00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:22,760 Speaker 1: so Brandon, there you go. It's true. It's true. And 398 00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:25,280 Speaker 1: I know that he's working on a new one right now. Again, 399 00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:28,040 Speaker 1: I get to have the honor to like go sit 400 00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:32,000 Speaker 1: in a booth and read books for a microphone, which 401 00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:35,119 Speaker 1: is a task. I'm not gonna lie. I gotta say everything. 402 00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:39,800 Speaker 1: You gotta act, you gotta have something, so it's gotta 403 00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:42,399 Speaker 1: come out, you go. You can't just say we're mocked. 404 00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:45,439 Speaker 1: It's you gotta say it. You gotta say it. You know, 405 00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:52,760 Speaker 1: it's like the luff you know, shop shoots up a book. No, 406 00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:55,720 Speaker 1: I will tell you where one of my books. The 407 00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:58,320 Speaker 1: editor said to me, okay, sure you can write a 408 00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:00,679 Speaker 1: book about and this was the book said largely on 409 00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:05,800 Speaker 1: the Eastern Front. But please don't use the German ranks. 410 00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:10,280 Speaker 1: Just call them captain or major. Don't say uber, string 411 00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:14,600 Speaker 1: bound fuel s s. You don't say that, just say lieutenant, colonel. 412 00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:20,800 Speaker 1: And so I did that reluctantly, and if to collected 413 00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:24,280 Speaker 1: Stephen Hunter, I'll go back and change all those to 414 00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:33,240 Speaker 1: the correct German. The ranks. That's when you come out, yes, yes, 415 00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:36,480 Speaker 1: right here the bullard. I'm just telling you, show you 416 00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:39,000 Speaker 1: the cover red. I have to point out that's an 417 00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:44,800 Speaker 1: actual Fourth Instantry Division soldier and actually going on patrol 418 00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:50,680 Speaker 1: in the bocage in Normandy. So not only is that 419 00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:56,000 Speaker 1: cover arresting, it's uniquely accurate in covers. I mean we 420 00:24:56,119 --> 00:25:01,960 Speaker 1: superimpose the scope and the words correct scope radical. It 421 00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:05,439 Speaker 1: doesn't have all the you know scopes today are like 422 00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:09,960 Speaker 1: looking in the right. Yeah, but that's it's just a 423 00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:13,159 Speaker 1: straight cross. That's that's it. That's what it was. That 424 00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:16,360 Speaker 1: makes me happy to Yeah. For our listeners that may 425 00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:19,159 Speaker 1: not be viewing this, I'm showing his book the Bullet 426 00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:22,600 Speaker 1: Garden and the jacket sleeve has a picture of a 427 00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:25,159 Speaker 1: scope radical with the crosshairs and and it is a 428 00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:29,960 Speaker 1: Fourth Infantry Division soldier with the background of like Normandy 429 00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:32,960 Speaker 1: and World War Two. There. It's a really solid book 430 00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:35,200 Speaker 1: just to cover alone. I mean, I would definitely pick 431 00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:38,639 Speaker 1: it up wherever fine books books are sold. Check local shops, 432 00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:41,399 Speaker 1: mom and pops that are stalking us on their shelves. 433 00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:44,800 Speaker 1: You never know to when an author will go in 434 00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:47,440 Speaker 1: and maybe sign a copy at a local mom and 435 00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:49,480 Speaker 1: pop shop because they're in the area, because they flew 436 00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:51,679 Speaker 1: in or something, and so you always want to support 437 00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:57,320 Speaker 1: those guys. Make sure you're trying to get that autograph. Yeah, 438 00:25:57,359 --> 00:25:59,560 Speaker 1: I bet you have. I bet you have. And let's 439 00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:02,239 Speaker 1: put it up again right here, your bullet garden, right, 440 00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:05,840 Speaker 1: Stephen Hunter, very nice person to talk with. And now 441 00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:10,040 Speaker 1: in regards to your film critics, right, your film critics, 442 00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:13,160 Speaker 1: let's just put that out there. You have a toolt surprise. 443 00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:18,320 Speaker 1: I did. Yes, that was cool. Right. You've seen a 444 00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:22,080 Speaker 1: few movies, maybe too many, and I'm making up boards 445 00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:26,240 Speaker 1: not seeing too many movies. Now, I've very seldom go 446 00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:29,920 Speaker 1: to the movies that I believed in film criticism. I 447 00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:34,680 Speaker 1: was passionate about it. Having that job was incredibly important 448 00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:38,720 Speaker 1: to me. Finally got it, managed to hang on, just 449 00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:41,400 Speaker 1: a hang on. I actually managed to flourish. I think 450 00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:44,439 Speaker 1: I did it for sixteen and I did it for 451 00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:48,719 Speaker 1: twenty eight years. Versus the ball, the motion to Washington Post. 452 00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:52,040 Speaker 1: It used to be one of the great jobs in 453 00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:57,119 Speaker 1: Western civilization. On the Internet sort of democratized it. I mean, 454 00:26:57,200 --> 00:27:02,640 Speaker 1: I sound like a jaded old Chinese aristocrat here. But now, 455 00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:06,639 Speaker 1: if you have a keyboard, you're a film critic. You know, 456 00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:10,399 Speaker 1: anyone can be a film critic. In those days, I 457 00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:12,719 Speaker 1: guess they were better. I would always argue that they 458 00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:16,560 Speaker 1: were better. To get that job, you had to really, 459 00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:24,720 Speaker 1: you know, it involves so many factors of hard work, talent, luck, connections. 460 00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:29,120 Speaker 1: It was like, it's a very very difficult career negotiation. 461 00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:31,479 Speaker 1: And if you stop and thinking about it, they were 462 00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:35,280 Speaker 1: really at any given time until about the year two 463 00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:39,320 Speaker 1: thousand and ten, there were probably more movie stars than 464 00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:43,680 Speaker 1: there were professional full time film critics. That's how to 465 00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:49,040 Speaker 1: get and it can't knock any Even though the Post 466 00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:52,720 Speaker 1: has gotten very liberal, they supported me while I was there. 467 00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:57,320 Speaker 1: They were very generous and actually they appeared to respect 468 00:27:57,359 --> 00:28:00,840 Speaker 1: my work. Now, I never had any work place issues. 469 00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:05,000 Speaker 1: I never was exiled, and it was a very and 470 00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:09,360 Speaker 1: I just maybe the new casualties of the new newspaper 471 00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:13,040 Speaker 1: is something called the newsroom. And I have to say, 472 00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:17,760 Speaker 1: having spent forty years in newsrooms, newsroom were great places 473 00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:20,640 Speaker 1: to spend your time. I mean, the people were your 474 00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:24,240 Speaker 1: kind of people, the issues were your kind of issues. 475 00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:27,560 Speaker 1: It was just like being in a sandbox. It was 476 00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:30,679 Speaker 1: just so much fun and just constantly going after the 477 00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:35,199 Speaker 1: news with everybody on the what's the news griddliness and 478 00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:37,840 Speaker 1: the support and even the fuge. You know, there were 479 00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:41,920 Speaker 1: always feuds source clicks is there always are. I joked 480 00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:45,000 Speaker 1: that my model for the Woff and SS in my 481 00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:49,040 Speaker 1: first book, I used the delf of the Baltimore Sunday 482 00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:55,120 Speaker 1: Sun magazine and seventy, you know, and that's probably pretty 483 00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:58,320 Speaker 1: close to get out to. All offices are the same, 484 00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:03,080 Speaker 1: and they they run by the same twisted rules. And 485 00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:06,240 Speaker 1: that's why there's always a lot of office politics in 486 00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:10,440 Speaker 1: my life in my books, because I understood that no 487 00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:16,280 Speaker 1: matter how the public perceives the product, whether it's genocide 488 00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:22,520 Speaker 1: or newspapers or GM cars, the office politics are prevalent 489 00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:26,760 Speaker 1: and intrusive and always there. And if you're not really 490 00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:30,640 Speaker 1: giving a good sense of reality, if you don't get 491 00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:35,920 Speaker 1: that in, you probably have office politics on your bond site. Yeah. 492 00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:38,520 Speaker 1: Oh no, I've been in the newsroom. I worked for 493 00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:41,280 Speaker 1: a local television station here years ago in my career, 494 00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:43,840 Speaker 1: and I've seen it. I get it. It's everybody's looking 495 00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:46,320 Speaker 1: for the story, and everybody's trying to it wasn't really 496 00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:48,680 Speaker 1: like the story wasn't one that they wanted to bring 497 00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:51,360 Speaker 1: it was what was going on. It's like I'm not 498 00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:56,760 Speaker 1: making up yeah, exactly. There's always a tension between headquarters 499 00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:00,000 Speaker 1: in the field, and they're always they're not in the field, 500 00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:02,840 Speaker 1: mean to let the end product will be. In the 501 00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:07,680 Speaker 1: field knows it's not quite right, but the headquarters knows 502 00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:10,240 Speaker 1: it's as right as it will lever b And there's 503 00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:14,400 Speaker 1: always that at tension, whether it's blowing up bridges or 504 00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:19,080 Speaker 1: writing about sewer committees, you know, right right, it's just 505 00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:21,200 Speaker 1: what is going on in your community or on a 506 00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:24,280 Speaker 1: national level in that newsroom, and they're just miners. They're 507 00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:26,480 Speaker 1: just trying to mind the story and get it and 508 00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:29,560 Speaker 1: expose s. I actually love it, and I think that's 509 00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:32,440 Speaker 1: really cool, and I'm honored to be able to interview you. 510 00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:39,200 Speaker 1: Is a reasonably decent, unaffected human being. I hope I'm 511 00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:43,800 Speaker 1: not arrogant or self referential or standing on a pedestal. 512 00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:49,360 Speaker 1: I'm actually we'll let the comments down below explain whatever 513 00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:51,160 Speaker 1: they want to say about that. I think you're just 514 00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:53,600 Speaker 1: lovely and fine. And so is your wife. Let's give 515 00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:58,040 Speaker 1: her another shout out. Yeah, I was very lucky in 516 00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:00,880 Speaker 1: the life department. I got on the line for that 517 00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:05,600 Speaker 1: one to bring it around to film again. Right, So 518 00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:07,760 Speaker 1: I love film. I am an actor. I do film, 519 00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:10,040 Speaker 1: and I've been in TV shows and things. You know, 520 00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:12,320 Speaker 1: I know that Soft. I looked you up to you 521 00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:18,040 Speaker 1: do air something I do offt phase And what I 522 00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:23,640 Speaker 1: loved about air saw was the accuracy of the weapons. 523 00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:26,440 Speaker 1: And like, I am never ever gonna own a B 524 00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:30,200 Speaker 1: A R. But if I want to feel the weight 525 00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:32,720 Speaker 1: and the shape and how it fits in and how 526 00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:37,440 Speaker 1: it carries, and you can do this for carry thousand 527 00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:44,200 Speaker 1: dollars less than And even now at the age of 528 00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:47,360 Speaker 1: seventy six, I've got two air Soft guns. Well I've 529 00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:49,600 Speaker 1: got three or four, but the two I've got two, 530 00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:52,960 Speaker 1: got an M one A one and I'm on the nine. 531 00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:57,600 Speaker 1: You know, I mean this sounds for a man of 532 00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:00,680 Speaker 1: my mature age. Was I love the mess around with them. 533 00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:03,000 Speaker 1: You know, they're cool. Look at what I do. I 534 00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:05,520 Speaker 1: get to do that all the time. Even it's like 535 00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:08,520 Speaker 1: I fell in love with it. War Games has brought 536 00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:11,240 Speaker 1: me here to do this. A lot of guys think 537 00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:14,560 Speaker 1: that today's you know, fifteen eighteen year old air Soft 538 00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:20,440 Speaker 1: here might be tomorrow's Bobbily Swagger or Brandon Webbs. If 539 00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:23,479 Speaker 1: that's what you know, if I'll tell you right now. 540 00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:27,800 Speaker 1: Through air Soft, I have seen noblemen and women join 541 00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:31,920 Speaker 1: the military and become successful individuals who stay in contact 542 00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:34,280 Speaker 1: with me and still play and don't mock it, and 543 00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:37,800 Speaker 1: still love the game, and still show up even though 544 00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:39,640 Speaker 1: they're in a US load out for their job. They 545 00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:41,760 Speaker 1: show up in a Russian load out for air Soft. 546 00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:48,880 Speaker 1: So the fact that I can bring people together and 547 00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:53,480 Speaker 1: get the shakes and the nervousness out of everybody and say, okay, 548 00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:56,000 Speaker 1: came on, we're gonna go hunt each other. And you're like, 549 00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:58,600 Speaker 1: oh oh wait, it's like tag but we're shooting each 550 00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:02,960 Speaker 1: other right right. You're more than welcome to come play, 551 00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:06,040 Speaker 1: and you can bring your Thompson. You know. I have. 552 00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:08,840 Speaker 1: I have another Thompson that you might like to know about. 553 00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:13,120 Speaker 1: It's the Pulse rifle from Aliens. So Aliens, the movie 554 00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:16,360 Speaker 1: with Crickley and all of them. Yeah, And it has 555 00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:19,360 Speaker 1: the countdown timer on the side of it for every round. 556 00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:24,600 Speaker 1: So there's an you would know. Weren't those camouflage as 557 00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:28,360 Speaker 1: in other words, the classic shell around in a r 558 00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:35,080 Speaker 1: and it's a Thompson. What were they It's a Thompson. Yeah, yes, 559 00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:40,680 Speaker 1: the Thompson. It's a Thompson. Yeah. Then it has the 560 00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:42,959 Speaker 1: same pistol grip as a Thompson. So when you look 561 00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:45,240 Speaker 1: at the Alien, look at the Alien pulse right and 562 00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:48,600 Speaker 1: you'll see the grip. Okay, you'll have to look that up. 563 00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:51,280 Speaker 1: I'm not even joking their unique guns. It's not the 564 00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:54,880 Speaker 1: everyday combat airsoft gun. But for your collection, we do 565 00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:57,240 Speaker 1: carry them and they're pretty legit. And the B A 566 00:33:57,440 --> 00:34:00,000 Speaker 1: R as well, it's super big. I did a whole review. 567 00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:02,040 Speaker 1: You want a B A R on a TikTok or 568 00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:05,000 Speaker 1: on Instagram video whatever guns come through. You know, I've 569 00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:07,960 Speaker 1: got a Panzer faster right now, we got cancer Yeah, 570 00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:11,080 Speaker 1: fires a forty millimeter grenate ball out of it. Yeah, 571 00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:14,960 Speaker 1: they do. Is there an airsoft variation? I used it 572 00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:17,279 Speaker 1: in a book. I think it was the It was 573 00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:19,840 Speaker 1: a German paratrooper rifle. It was the one with the 574 00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:25,960 Speaker 1: inn FT two. It was manufactured by Hanel. So we 575 00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:29,320 Speaker 1: have the EMP forties, we have the MP forties, we 576 00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:33,880 Speaker 1: have the MP forty Four's stand with this was they 577 00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:36,760 Speaker 1: didn't make a whole lot of them, but the German 578 00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:41,040 Speaker 1: paratroopers Foster Jaggers, I think they were called Yeah, the Jager, 579 00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:45,040 Speaker 1: the helmet. They had no special helmets. Say that but 580 00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:48,000 Speaker 1: oh no, no, no, well no they had the helmet. Yeah, 581 00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:51,719 Speaker 1: well they were tactical. The other ugliness they were No, 582 00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:55,480 Speaker 1: they were airborne, the Falschbager. They were airborne and they 583 00:34:55,800 --> 00:35:00,319 Speaker 1: had families as well. So I made right this. Maybe 584 00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:04,160 Speaker 1: it will excite you. I may feature German e boats 585 00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:09,000 Speaker 1: in e boats were really cool and they were extremely effective. 586 00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:13,000 Speaker 1: Nobody has any idea, but they sang about a hundred 587 00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:16,759 Speaker 1: times the tonnage of the boats they lost, so they 588 00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:20,920 Speaker 1: were extremely effective in the war. They wasted. And I've 589 00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:23,719 Speaker 1: got a book coming I may write. I don't know. 590 00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:26,480 Speaker 1: I you never know until you do it. But they'll 591 00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:29,840 Speaker 1: play a part in that. Oh you're saying I'll get apart. 592 00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:33,080 Speaker 1: I'm just kidding. Plan No, you let me know when 593 00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:34,920 Speaker 1: you're ready. I'll show up on step for that one day. 594 00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:36,640 Speaker 1: Don't you worry about I'll cut it up. Whatever you 595 00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:39,280 Speaker 1: want to do. I'll be dead. I could just be dead, okay, 596 00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:41,840 Speaker 1: just dead with my beard. Farmer A farmer, A dead farmer. 597 00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:48,239 Speaker 1: You know they fight around the couse. Okay, have you 598 00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:50,879 Speaker 1: made it to Sundance for any of your film. I've 599 00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:54,280 Speaker 1: never I've been to the Khan a couple of times, 600 00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:56,880 Speaker 1: and I've been to the New York Film Festival a 601 00:35:57,000 --> 00:36:01,480 Speaker 1: couple of times. Film festivals is an entirely different culture. 602 00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:06,040 Speaker 1: It's very frenzied, and it's mainly about scheduling. Because they're 603 00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:09,359 Speaker 1: showing four movies a day. You have to know which 604 00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:12,120 Speaker 1: ones you have to see and which ones you skip. 605 00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:17,160 Speaker 1: It's extremely tiring, I found for some reason. I went 606 00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:19,839 Speaker 1: to Coln three times, twice for The Sun and once 607 00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:22,080 Speaker 1: for The Post, and I always got booked in the 608 00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:25,360 Speaker 1: same motel hotel, and it was a mile and a 609 00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:29,520 Speaker 1: half away from the area. The walk was along the beach, 610 00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:33,279 Speaker 1: and so I came back from Cohn in the best 611 00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:36,160 Speaker 1: shape of my life because I a while and a 612 00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:39,040 Speaker 1: half there in a mile and a half back and 613 00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:42,200 Speaker 1: one of the beaches I want by was topless. That 614 00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:46,879 Speaker 1: was much more fun than the actual festival, more exercise, 615 00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:53,200 Speaker 1: and I mean, really, yeah, you're only human. You know, 616 00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:56,640 Speaker 1: we're only human. You know we all have these things, 617 00:36:56,719 --> 00:36:59,440 Speaker 1: we all know it. We're only human. We're so crazy. 618 00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:02,200 Speaker 1: In a movie, you'd rather see somebody get decapitated than 619 00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:04,560 Speaker 1: see a boob in their mouth. The one thing is 620 00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:07,239 Speaker 1: so beautiful and organic. The other one is like you 621 00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:11,200 Speaker 1: gotta do the or you know, it's like, oh, well, 622 00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:16,280 Speaker 1: we're a human society and here we are. Well listen. 623 00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:18,960 Speaker 1: I have had you for forty five minutes of your time, 624 00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:20,440 Speaker 1: and I know it's precious and I know you have 625 00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:23,040 Speaker 1: other things going on, and I really want to wish 626 00:37:23,080 --> 00:37:25,960 Speaker 1: you much success, and I would like to have you 627 00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:28,840 Speaker 1: on again as a repeat interview as a friend, you know, 628 00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:30,800 Speaker 1: later on maybe during the year, if you have another 629 00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:33,000 Speaker 1: book comes out as you're writing, you know, I'd love 630 00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:35,200 Speaker 1: to have you back on. I'm just putting very please 631 00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:38,040 Speaker 1: for your support and I'll be glad to do anything 632 00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:41,480 Speaker 1: I can for myself and for you. So it's okay, 633 00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:44,800 Speaker 1: thank you. Well, I would like to say thank you 634 00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:47,400 Speaker 1: so much to my guest Stephen Hunter. I want to 635 00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:49,960 Speaker 1: put up the book again, which is The Bullet Garden, 636 00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:52,839 Speaker 1: and it should show in a normal way, even though 637 00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:55,880 Speaker 1: it looks reversed to me. It flips around when you 638 00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:58,560 Speaker 1: guys are watching it. On the video Stephen Hunter The 639 00:37:58,680 --> 00:38:02,320 Speaker 1: Bullet Garden check out Simon Schuster. Thanks to David for 640 00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:04,879 Speaker 1: hooking this up. I really appreciate it and I want 641 00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:07,439 Speaker 1: to say thanks to Brandon and everybody at soft Rep 642 00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:10,400 Speaker 1: for keeping the lights on and keeping me in your thoughts. 643 00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:15,399 Speaker 1: And a shout out to Ramstein right here on my shirt. Okay, well, 644 00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:20,360 Speaker 1: thanks again, Stephen, you have a wonderful day. Okay, peace, 645 00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:29,480 Speaker 1: you've been listening to self REPLI