1 00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:05,360 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind production of My 2 00:00:05,480 --> 00:00:14,800 Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind. 3 00:00:14,960 --> 00:00:17,640 Speaker 1: My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick, and 4 00:00:17,680 --> 00:00:20,640 Speaker 1: we're back with part two of our series on naturally 5 00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:24,560 Speaker 1: fueled flames. Now, in the last episode, Rob you you 6 00:00:24,640 --> 00:00:27,360 Speaker 1: opened with a question that we never fully got to 7 00:00:27,440 --> 00:00:30,479 Speaker 1: the to the bottom of the question was what is 8 00:00:30,560 --> 00:00:35,839 Speaker 1: the oldest continuously burning fire on Earth? And uh, or 9 00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:37,839 Speaker 1: you may have phrased it a little bit differently. That 10 00:00:37,880 --> 00:00:39,760 Speaker 1: was one question. I guess another one would be like, 11 00:00:39,800 --> 00:00:42,360 Speaker 1: what's the longest a single fire with the with the 12 00:00:42,479 --> 00:00:46,000 Speaker 1: single common origin has ever burned? Right? Yeah, but essentially 13 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:48,640 Speaker 1: getting down to the same question. Yeah, yeah, I guess 14 00:00:48,720 --> 00:00:52,360 Speaker 1: the last one is really unknowable. The first the first 15 00:00:52,360 --> 00:00:56,120 Speaker 1: what is the oldest continuous fire still burning today? Is 16 00:00:56,760 --> 00:00:59,280 Speaker 1: I don't know, maybe still difficult to know, but easier 17 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:01,560 Speaker 1: than the other one. So I don't know if this 18 00:01:01,640 --> 00:01:04,440 Speaker 1: question can be answered definitively. But we did at least 19 00:01:04,520 --> 00:01:08,800 Speaker 1: establish that all of the oldest eternal flames maintained by 20 00:01:08,880 --> 00:01:12,399 Speaker 1: humans at various temples and memorials and so forth around 21 00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:16,559 Speaker 1: the world are minuscule in longevity. Compared to some sites 22 00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:20,640 Speaker 1: of naturally fueled burning, places where some chunk of the 23 00:01:20,680 --> 00:01:25,640 Speaker 1: earth itself is continuously on fire or smoldering at the 24 00:01:25,640 --> 00:01:29,120 Speaker 1: place where it meets oxygen. And one example we looked 25 00:01:29,120 --> 00:01:32,560 Speaker 1: at in the last episode is a very strange and 26 00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:37,600 Speaker 1: beautiful place in the Northwest Territories of Canada called the 27 00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:42,880 Speaker 1: Smoking Hills, where eroding coastal hills and cliff sides burned 28 00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:46,880 Speaker 1: by themselves as a result of an exothermic chemical reaction 29 00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:51,480 Speaker 1: that happens when pyrite rich mudstone is exposed to the air, 30 00:01:51,720 --> 00:01:54,840 Speaker 1: so erosion happens, part of the cliff comes away, and 31 00:01:54,880 --> 00:01:57,440 Speaker 1: some of this mudstone that has you know, fine grain 32 00:01:57,480 --> 00:02:00,920 Speaker 1: pyrite in it, oxidizes it he eats up, and then 33 00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:04,720 Speaker 1: some combustible elements that are within the mudstone sort of 34 00:02:04,840 --> 00:02:08,640 Speaker 1: smolder or catch fire, and that just creates a self sustaining, 35 00:02:08,680 --> 00:02:12,000 Speaker 1: self igniting burn that can go on for a long 36 00:02:12,080 --> 00:02:15,240 Speaker 1: long time. All evidence points to the conclusion that the 37 00:02:15,280 --> 00:02:19,560 Speaker 1: Smoking Hills have been burning for hundreds or even thousands 38 00:02:19,560 --> 00:02:22,360 Speaker 1: of years. So there might be a question about whether 39 00:02:22,400 --> 00:02:25,040 Speaker 1: you'd want to call this technically an example of fire 40 00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:28,120 Speaker 1: or not. I mean, it is smoldering rather than you're 41 00:02:28,160 --> 00:02:32,240 Speaker 1: not usually seeing like big sort of dancing flames coming 42 00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:34,680 Speaker 1: off of it. But it's smoking and burning four hundreds 43 00:02:34,760 --> 00:02:37,919 Speaker 1: or thousands of years. It certainly is a very long burn. 44 00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:41,160 Speaker 1: But is it the longest? Well, I think the answer 45 00:02:41,360 --> 00:02:44,680 Speaker 1: is probably not. Again this this question is hard to 46 00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:49,799 Speaker 1: answer conclusively. But one site I have seen proposed as 47 00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:52,680 Speaker 1: the holder of the title of the longest burning fire 48 00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:56,560 Speaker 1: on Earth is a place in Australia known as the 49 00:02:56,639 --> 00:03:01,000 Speaker 1: Burning Mountain. The Burning Mountain is technically known as Mount 50 00:03:01,080 --> 00:03:04,880 Speaker 1: Wingin spelled like winging like w i n g, and 51 00:03:05,200 --> 00:03:09,240 Speaker 1: it's Windin, which is a name allegedly derived from a 52 00:03:09,320 --> 00:03:13,720 Speaker 1: word used by the native Wannerooa people meaning fire. The 53 00:03:13,760 --> 00:03:17,280 Speaker 1: Burning Mountain is located in the Upper Hunter Valley of 54 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:22,200 Speaker 1: New South Wales what's today about three kilometers north of Sydney, 55 00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:25,200 Speaker 1: and the earliest written records of the mountain trace back 56 00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:29,560 Speaker 1: to stories published in the Sydney newspapers in eighty eight, 57 00:03:29,600 --> 00:03:32,240 Speaker 1: though the site had been used and known by the 58 00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:36,000 Speaker 1: Wannerooa going back much longer. To get a feel for 59 00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:38,440 Speaker 1: the extent of this site, I was looking around for 60 00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:40,520 Speaker 1: photos and videos and I found a really cool video 61 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:43,720 Speaker 1: somebody uploaded to YouTube of aerial drone footage, so you 62 00:03:43,760 --> 00:03:46,080 Speaker 1: can look that up if you want. But if you 63 00:03:46,120 --> 00:03:49,560 Speaker 1: are peering down at the the mountain from the air, 64 00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:53,800 Speaker 1: what you will see is a sort of smooth crest 65 00:03:53,840 --> 00:03:57,440 Speaker 1: of a mountain peak where a section that looks to 66 00:03:57,480 --> 00:04:02,000 Speaker 1: me to be about I'm not so good at estimating 67 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:04,360 Speaker 1: area by by sight, but it looks like maybe half 68 00:04:04,400 --> 00:04:07,280 Speaker 1: the size of a soccer field something like that. Uh, 69 00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:11,680 Speaker 1: it's been scorched clean, so all of the ground around it. 70 00:04:11,760 --> 00:04:14,000 Speaker 1: This is not a bare rock mountaintop. This is a 71 00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:17,240 Speaker 1: fully forested uh and and grass covered mountains So all 72 00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:21,000 Speaker 1: of the ground around this burned area is populated with 73 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:25,040 Speaker 1: with trees and grasses, But within the burned zone there 74 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:29,400 Speaker 1: is only bare earth, soil and gravel, either bleached white 75 00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:33,920 Speaker 1: like ash or burned red like brick. And near the 76 00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:37,560 Speaker 1: edges of the burned field there are these pale skeletons 77 00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:41,160 Speaker 1: of dead trees, some laying flat. I guess maybe those 78 00:04:41,200 --> 00:04:43,840 Speaker 1: are the older ones that have fallen down and some 79 00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:46,920 Speaker 1: still standing. The ones that are still upright seem to 80 00:04:46,960 --> 00:04:48,760 Speaker 1: be the ones that are a little bit farther away 81 00:04:48,800 --> 00:04:51,920 Speaker 1: from the center of the burned region and all around 82 00:04:51,920 --> 00:04:54,800 Speaker 1: the area, even in sections that are now covered in 83 00:04:54,839 --> 00:04:59,120 Speaker 1: grass and vegetation presumably covered in it once again. Uh, 84 00:04:59,160 --> 00:05:02,680 Speaker 1: there are no usable cracks and fissures in the earth 85 00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:05,920 Speaker 1: like you might see opening up during an earthquake scene 86 00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:08,440 Speaker 1: in a disaster movie. Yeah. I would say this, this 87 00:05:08,480 --> 00:05:12,160 Speaker 1: footage is definitely worth seeking out because when you hear 88 00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:14,520 Speaker 1: burning Mountain, and even with that description, you still might 89 00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:19,599 Speaker 1: be imagining some sort of more door esque, very you know, 90 00:05:19,680 --> 00:05:23,200 Speaker 1: volcanic vision of what we're talking about here, and and 91 00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:25,919 Speaker 1: the reality is in many ways more subtle than that 92 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:30,719 Speaker 1: extreme vision, but but also inherently, uh, you know, weird 93 00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:35,680 Speaker 1: when compared to most other environments you're gonna encounter. Yeah, totally. 94 00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:38,119 Speaker 1: And I think there are indications there may have been times, 95 00:05:38,120 --> 00:05:42,520 Speaker 1: even in fairly recent history, where it it looked scarier 96 00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:45,760 Speaker 1: than it does now, though it certainly does look very strange. 97 00:05:46,480 --> 00:05:49,640 Speaker 1: One of the earliest written accounts that's been widely cited 98 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:54,640 Speaker 1: and republished was an investigation and field report called Burning 99 00:05:54,680 --> 00:05:59,560 Speaker 1: Mountain of Australia by the Reverend Charles Wilton UH, published 100 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:02,760 Speaker 1: in eight nine. I dug up this article and I 101 00:06:02,839 --> 00:06:05,080 Speaker 1: wanted to read and mention a few sections from it 102 00:06:05,080 --> 00:06:08,120 Speaker 1: because it was interesting. Wilton begins by acknowledging that he's 103 00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:11,280 Speaker 1: waiting into a kind of ongoing controversy and would have 104 00:06:11,320 --> 00:06:16,040 Speaker 1: to contradict previous reports, including the earlier reports that Mount 105 00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:20,040 Speaker 1: win Gin was a volcano with a crater or called 106 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:24,320 Speaker 1: ea uh. Now Wilton's investigation revealed that the mountain was 107 00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:27,200 Speaker 1: probably not a volcano and certainly did not have a 108 00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:31,760 Speaker 1: mouth or crater, And he writes as follows, that portion 109 00:06:31,839 --> 00:06:35,200 Speaker 1: of the mountain wingin where the fire is now burning, 110 00:06:35,279 --> 00:06:39,440 Speaker 1: and which is a compact sandstone rock, comprehends parts of 111 00:06:39,480 --> 00:06:43,160 Speaker 1: two declivities of one and the same mountain. The progress 112 00:06:43,200 --> 00:06:45,920 Speaker 1: of the fire has of late been down the northern 113 00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:49,480 Speaker 1: and highest elevation, and it is now ascending with great 114 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:53,840 Speaker 1: fury the opposite and southern imminence, from the situation of 115 00:06:53,839 --> 00:06:57,160 Speaker 1: the fire having been in a hollow between two ridges 116 00:06:57,240 --> 00:07:01,080 Speaker 1: of the same mountain. Mr Mackie, referring to somebody who 117 00:07:01,320 --> 00:07:04,640 Speaker 1: gave an earlier report, was probably induced to give to 118 00:07:04,880 --> 00:07:08,120 Speaker 1: the clefts in the mountain the appellation of a crater. 119 00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:12,760 Speaker 1: The fact is the rock, as the subterraneous fire increases, 120 00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:17,840 Speaker 1: is rent into several concave chasms of various widths. I 121 00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:22,360 Speaker 1: particularly examined the widest of these. The rock, a solid 122 00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:26,640 Speaker 1: mass of sandstone, was torn asunder about two feet in width, 123 00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:30,680 Speaker 1: leaving its upper and southerly side exposed to view the 124 00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:33,880 Speaker 1: parts so torn asunder, having slipped as it were, down 125 00:07:34,280 --> 00:07:38,160 Speaker 1: and sunk into a hollow, thus forming the convex surface 126 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:41,240 Speaker 1: of the heated rock. I looked down this chasm to 127 00:07:41,280 --> 00:07:44,360 Speaker 1: the depth of about fifteen feet. The sides of the 128 00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:46,960 Speaker 1: rock were of a white heat, like that of a 129 00:07:47,080 --> 00:07:51,200 Speaker 1: lime kiln, while sulfurous and steamy vapors arose from a 130 00:07:51,280 --> 00:07:55,320 Speaker 1: depth below, like blasts from the forge of Vulcan himself. 131 00:07:55,920 --> 00:07:58,040 Speaker 1: I stood on that portion of the rock which had 132 00:07:58,040 --> 00:08:01,280 Speaker 1: been cleft from the part above, and on hurling stones 133 00:08:01,400 --> 00:08:04,160 Speaker 1: down into the chasm. The noise they made in their 134 00:08:04,200 --> 00:08:07,280 Speaker 1: falls seemed to die away in a vast abyss beneath 135 00:08:07,320 --> 00:08:10,200 Speaker 1: my feet. So I love the part where he starts 136 00:08:10,280 --> 00:08:14,160 Speaker 1: chucking rocks into the chasms in the earth. So okay, 137 00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:17,120 Speaker 1: he has established this is probably not a volcano. There 138 00:08:17,200 --> 00:08:20,640 Speaker 1: there is no crater, no caldera. Instead, there is a 139 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:25,400 Speaker 1: burned area on the surface of the mountain, producing sulfurous fumes. 140 00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:28,840 Speaker 1: And then there are these cracks or chasms in the earth, 141 00:08:28,960 --> 00:08:32,120 Speaker 1: and the fire seems to be burning down in the 142 00:08:32,280 --> 00:08:35,400 Speaker 1: deep of these cracks now in comparing it to the 143 00:08:35,440 --> 00:08:37,800 Speaker 1: Forge of Vulcan. Though, this comes back to something we 144 00:08:37,920 --> 00:08:40,600 Speaker 1: touched on in the last episode that when people encounter 145 00:08:40,720 --> 00:08:43,800 Speaker 1: these they have no choice but in many cases too 146 00:08:43,880 --> 00:08:47,080 Speaker 1: but to compare them to human fire technology on one 147 00:08:47,120 --> 00:08:50,679 Speaker 1: level or another. Yeah, especially industry, right, like both of 148 00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:54,640 Speaker 1: the earliest written accounts of the smoking Hills in the 149 00:08:54,640 --> 00:08:58,920 Speaker 1: Northwest Territories compared them to h compared them to human industry, 150 00:08:58,920 --> 00:09:00,760 Speaker 1: one to a chemical fact to read, the other to 151 00:09:00,880 --> 00:09:05,960 Speaker 1: a brick manufacturing location. And that many of the oral 152 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:09,520 Speaker 1: traditions of the New Valuate people said that these were 153 00:09:09,640 --> 00:09:11,720 Speaker 1: the fires coming off of the hills, were the cooking 154 00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:15,520 Speaker 1: fires or smoke from the fires of the little people 155 00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:18,640 Speaker 1: or the invisible people who lived inside the mountains there 156 00:09:18,679 --> 00:09:23,200 Speaker 1: after they've been driven away from human companionship. So coming 157 00:09:23,240 --> 00:09:25,679 Speaker 1: back to Reverend Wilton's account, he he goes on to 158 00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:28,520 Speaker 1: write that there are a bunch of these chasms there, 159 00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:32,360 Speaker 1: of varying width, and they're constantly belching out smoke and 160 00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:37,440 Speaker 1: sulfurous vapor, and the chasms are also quote beautified with 161 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:42,040 Speaker 1: efflorescent crystal of sulfur, varying in color from the deepest 162 00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:46,560 Speaker 1: red orange occasioned by Ferruginists mixture. I think that means 163 00:09:46,559 --> 00:09:50,400 Speaker 1: containing iron or iron oxide to the palest straw color 164 00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:54,680 Speaker 1: where alum predominated. And he said he could not spend 165 00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:57,520 Speaker 1: much time near these clefts because the ground was too 166 00:09:57,520 --> 00:10:00,360 Speaker 1: hot to stand on and the vapors were not quote 167 00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:06,360 Speaker 1: most grateful to the lungs. Yeah, and he he makes 168 00:10:06,360 --> 00:10:09,839 Speaker 1: a bunch more descriptive observations. He says that he did 169 00:10:09,880 --> 00:10:13,640 Speaker 1: not observe any lava or trachite there, and these would 170 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:16,800 Speaker 1: be rocks that would be signs of volcanic activity, so 171 00:10:16,840 --> 00:10:21,040 Speaker 1: he seems to be accumulating evidence against the interpretation of 172 00:10:21,040 --> 00:10:24,280 Speaker 1: this mountain as any kind of volcano. He also says 173 00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:27,520 Speaker 1: that he didn't see any coal at the Burning Mountain, 174 00:10:27,559 --> 00:10:30,600 Speaker 1: though he notes that he found coal in many places nearby. 175 00:10:30,760 --> 00:10:34,560 Speaker 1: So this, this region of the country seems to be 176 00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:37,920 Speaker 1: coal rich, which is important. We'll come back to it. 177 00:10:38,200 --> 00:10:40,840 Speaker 1: And as one weird acide, he's like, oh, by the way, 178 00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:43,880 Speaker 1: right on the other side of the Burning Mountain, there's 179 00:10:43,880 --> 00:10:47,000 Speaker 1: a spring that's great to drink from, nice cool water, 180 00:10:47,160 --> 00:10:50,000 Speaker 1: especially after you've been breathing smoke from the fumes from 181 00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:52,080 Speaker 1: the chasms. You go and get yourself some of the 182 00:10:52,120 --> 00:10:56,959 Speaker 1: water from the spring. It will quench the folks. It 183 00:10:57,080 --> 00:10:59,680 Speaker 1: is not a good idea to drink untested or untreated 184 00:10:59,720 --> 00:11:02,760 Speaker 1: spring water. I can can have stuff and it's not 185 00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:05,960 Speaker 1: good for you, though, I honestly I don't know if 186 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:08,800 Speaker 1: that's more or less likely if you're getting your spring 187 00:11:08,840 --> 00:11:11,559 Speaker 1: water from a from a mountain that's on fire. Yeah, 188 00:11:11,640 --> 00:11:15,960 Speaker 1: because I can imagine the water potentially tasting strongly of 189 00:11:16,040 --> 00:11:20,080 Speaker 1: sulfur or something. But I don't know. Maybe it's just 190 00:11:20,480 --> 00:11:24,160 Speaker 1: a wonderful spring that was quite refreshing. Now. As a 191 00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:27,800 Speaker 1: general comment on his observations, Wilton writes, quote, I have 192 00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:31,360 Speaker 1: compared the phenomenon presented by this mountain with written descriptions 193 00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:35,280 Speaker 1: of volcanic action and subterraneous fire in other portions of 194 00:11:35,320 --> 00:11:39,280 Speaker 1: the globe, but can discover no exact similarity between them. 195 00:11:39,320 --> 00:11:42,440 Speaker 1: The burning Mountain of Australia may, I think be pronounced 196 00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:46,520 Speaker 1: as unique one other example of nature sports of her 197 00:11:46,559 --> 00:11:49,960 Speaker 1: total disregard in this country of those laws which the 198 00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:55,320 Speaker 1: philosophers of the old world have since assigned her. I 199 00:11:55,360 --> 00:11:58,360 Speaker 1: don't know about that, Wilton. This is certainly not a 200 00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:00,840 Speaker 1: unique phenomenon. We can come back to that in a minute. 201 00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:03,320 Speaker 1: But but he is correct, you know, it depends on 202 00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:06,360 Speaker 1: what he's looking to, I guess in in history books 203 00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:11,000 Speaker 1: and other accounts, because uh there can be obviously large, 204 00:12:11,240 --> 00:12:15,199 Speaker 1: big differences between what one could roughly classify as a 205 00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:18,640 Speaker 1: as fire erupting from the ground or burning earth in 206 00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:21,680 Speaker 1: one part of the world and m in something that 207 00:12:21,760 --> 00:12:24,080 Speaker 1: fits the same description elsewhere in the world. And we'll 208 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:26,840 Speaker 1: we'll get to some examples of that in a bit, right. 209 00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:29,920 Speaker 1: Uh So, in the years since, study on the Burning 210 00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:33,040 Speaker 1: Mountain is continued, and it is clear that it is 211 00:12:33,080 --> 00:12:37,040 Speaker 1: in fact a coal seam fire. So you can imagine 212 00:12:37,040 --> 00:12:41,080 Speaker 1: there are masses of coal inside the mountains, sometimes you know, 213 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:45,120 Speaker 1: ribbons of coal running through the rocks, and at some 214 00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:49,640 Speaker 1: point in history that coal must have been exposed to 215 00:12:49,760 --> 00:12:53,320 Speaker 1: the air to some extent and set on fire, and 216 00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:57,720 Speaker 1: it has been slowly burning or smoldering ever since. Now 217 00:12:57,760 --> 00:13:00,439 Speaker 1: how is it first ignited? Ultimately, we have no way 218 00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:04,400 Speaker 1: of knowing that. But hypotheses include lightning strikes, that would 219 00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:07,320 Speaker 1: make sense. So lightning strikes exposed coal seam that that 220 00:13:07,440 --> 00:13:10,040 Speaker 1: sets it ablaze and it just continues throughout the years 221 00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:13,240 Speaker 1: after that. It could have been a natural brush fire. 222 00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:17,040 Speaker 1: Brush fire gets close and does the same thing. There 223 00:13:17,080 --> 00:13:18,840 Speaker 1: are some theories that it could be a kind of 224 00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:24,120 Speaker 1: spontaneous spontaneous ignition of exposed coal, because when coal is 225 00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:27,720 Speaker 1: exposed to air and gets really hot, maybe baking under 226 00:13:27,760 --> 00:13:31,240 Speaker 1: the sun, it can start burning on its own. Or 227 00:13:31,280 --> 00:13:34,240 Speaker 1: there could be some kind of chemical reaction, maybe involving 228 00:13:34,760 --> 00:13:37,319 Speaker 1: you know, sulfur like we like we observed in the 229 00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:41,360 Speaker 1: Smoking Hills the oxidation that kicks off that burning process 230 00:13:41,360 --> 00:13:44,320 Speaker 1: in Canada. And then of course, obviously there's there's the 231 00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:48,280 Speaker 1: other possibility which I think Smoky Bear would definitely point 232 00:13:48,280 --> 00:13:50,720 Speaker 1: out to us, that there's always the chance that that 233 00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:57,000 Speaker 1: human beings have a hand in setting such things ablaze. Possible, yes, 234 00:13:57,320 --> 00:14:01,720 Speaker 1: either by accident or intentionally. Yeah, And so one of 235 00:14:01,760 --> 00:14:04,320 Speaker 1: the articles I was reading mentioned the possibility because I 236 00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:07,000 Speaker 1: think there are some early reports that make it that 237 00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:11,880 Speaker 1: make the Burning Mountain sound more hellish and and uh 238 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:14,880 Speaker 1: stupendous than it is even today. I mean, today you 239 00:14:14,920 --> 00:14:18,960 Speaker 1: don't see flames anywhere. You just see and smell the smoke, 240 00:14:19,040 --> 00:14:21,320 Speaker 1: and you see the scorched earth on the on the 241 00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:24,720 Speaker 1: surface and in these chasms leading down below. So something's 242 00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:27,720 Speaker 1: happening deep down in their fires in the deep, but 243 00:14:27,760 --> 00:14:30,320 Speaker 1: you're not seeing tongues of flame or up from the earth. 244 00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:33,400 Speaker 1: I think some early reports did say that that they 245 00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:36,080 Speaker 1: observed like lights and stuff like that, which may have 246 00:14:36,160 --> 00:14:38,400 Speaker 1: led to the initial reports that this was some kind 247 00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:42,760 Speaker 1: of volcano if they were seeing actual like glowing flames 248 00:14:42,880 --> 00:14:45,080 Speaker 1: or or something like that coming out of the mountain, 249 00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:47,880 Speaker 1: which could have been caused by if there was a 250 00:14:47,920 --> 00:14:50,520 Speaker 1: section of the coal seam that was just closer to 251 00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:53,040 Speaker 1: the surface. Right, it's closer to the surface, so more 252 00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:56,000 Speaker 1: oxygen's getting to it, it's getting really hot, it's producing 253 00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:58,600 Speaker 1: these flames and there within you know, a distance from 254 00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:01,400 Speaker 1: the surface that can be seen the naked eye. Yeah, 255 00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:04,600 Speaker 1: because we are dealing with the situation where you know, 256 00:15:04,680 --> 00:15:08,040 Speaker 1: geologic processes are need to be considered, and and also 257 00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:11,280 Speaker 1: where a situation where fuel is being consumed and so 258 00:15:11,560 --> 00:15:14,120 Speaker 1: a certain amount of change is going to take place there. 259 00:15:14,160 --> 00:15:17,760 Speaker 1: Like even in the Wilton quote that you you read here, 260 00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:21,560 Speaker 1: like he talks about the great fury. Uh, that is 261 00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:24,760 Speaker 1: observable here and perhaps this is just you know, his 262 00:15:24,760 --> 00:15:29,240 Speaker 1: his description being you know, colorful and enthusiastic. But uh, 263 00:15:29,280 --> 00:15:32,760 Speaker 1: you know that that doesn't necessarily match up with say, 264 00:15:32,840 --> 00:15:36,520 Speaker 1: you know, these modern drone images in the modern drone 265 00:15:36,520 --> 00:15:39,280 Speaker 1: footage that we were talking about earlier, Right, So, the 266 00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:42,560 Speaker 1: surface appearance of a coal seam fire like this could 267 00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:45,520 Speaker 1: could vary a lot over the ages as it continues 268 00:15:45,560 --> 00:15:47,680 Speaker 1: to burn. I think one of one of the biggest 269 00:15:47,760 --> 00:15:50,760 Speaker 1: variables just being like how close is the coal to 270 00:15:50,920 --> 00:15:53,960 Speaker 1: the surface. Now, coming back to the question of how 271 00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:57,160 Speaker 1: long the fire has been burning and how we could 272 00:15:57,280 --> 00:16:00,840 Speaker 1: estimate this as the oldest continuous fire on Earth, it 273 00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:04,280 Speaker 1: appears to be burning underground at a depth of roughly 274 00:16:04,440 --> 00:16:07,800 Speaker 1: thirty meters below the surface. So while it has an 275 00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:11,000 Speaker 1: enormous quantity of fuel that it can access in the 276 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:15,360 Speaker 1: coal seam that feeds it, it's actually burning incredibly slowly. 277 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:18,600 Speaker 1: And um, I'm pretty sure that the main reason for 278 00:16:18,640 --> 00:16:21,720 Speaker 1: this is that it's so deep that it has very 279 00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:25,800 Speaker 1: little access to oxygen. So for a mundane analogy, if 280 00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:28,840 Speaker 1: you ever have experience working a grill, think about getting 281 00:16:28,840 --> 00:16:31,360 Speaker 1: a fire going. Uh, and maybe you want this fire 282 00:16:31,360 --> 00:16:34,200 Speaker 1: in the grill to burn low and slow instead of 283 00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:36,680 Speaker 1: hot and fast. What would you do there, Well, you 284 00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:40,800 Speaker 1: manipulate the vents, right. You squeeze them down to only 285 00:16:40,840 --> 00:16:43,720 Speaker 1: the barest crack of an opening, so that the fire 286 00:16:43,760 --> 00:16:46,840 Speaker 1: has very little access to oxygen. You can't close the 287 00:16:46,920 --> 00:16:49,160 Speaker 1: vents completely, of course, because then the fire will just 288 00:16:49,200 --> 00:16:51,880 Speaker 1: go out there's no oxygen. But if you keep just 289 00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:55,400 Speaker 1: a little trickle of oxygen going in, the fire will 290 00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:58,080 Speaker 1: burn slowly at a lower temperature and last for a 291 00:16:58,080 --> 00:17:02,520 Speaker 1: longer time without extinguishing its few aal source. So I 292 00:17:02,560 --> 00:17:05,480 Speaker 1: think that's probably what's going on in this case as well. 293 00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:07,720 Speaker 1: There's you know, a bunch of coal down there, but 294 00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:10,800 Speaker 1: it's burning through the coal very slowly. It's smoldering over 295 00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:14,399 Speaker 1: the years because it's deep and the oxygen not a 296 00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:17,159 Speaker 1: whole lot of oxygen gets to it at once. So 297 00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:20,360 Speaker 1: scientists have actually been able to estimate the the average 298 00:17:20,480 --> 00:17:23,320 Speaker 1: rate at which the fire spreads within the burning mountain, 299 00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:27,840 Speaker 1: and a common estimate I've seen is that it appears 300 00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:32,080 Speaker 1: to be going roughly one meter per year. And because 301 00:17:32,119 --> 00:17:35,520 Speaker 1: we can track the historical movement of the burned area 302 00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:39,399 Speaker 1: through geological markers, we can actually estimate the age of 303 00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:42,679 Speaker 1: the fire, as the authors mentioned in a in a 304 00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:46,879 Speaker 1: paper called Thermal Infrared Imagery of the Burning Mountain coal 305 00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:51,359 Speaker 1: Fire published in Remote Sensing Equipment Buy C. D. Elliott 306 00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:55,040 Speaker 1: and Adrian W. Fleming in nineteen seventy four. And so 307 00:17:55,080 --> 00:17:58,399 Speaker 1: the authors of this paper right quote, baked sediments and 308 00:17:58,520 --> 00:18:01,280 Speaker 1: slag produced by the urning Mountain coal fire have been 309 00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:05,119 Speaker 1: traced over a distance of six kilometers to the northeast 310 00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:08,880 Speaker 1: of the present chimney. The burning mountain coal fire itself 311 00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:12,560 Speaker 1: is of considerable antiquity. If it's assumed that the fire 312 00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:16,760 Speaker 1: is burnt continuously and migrated steadily south at the present 313 00:18:16,840 --> 00:18:19,240 Speaker 1: main rate of movement, and again this is estimated to 314 00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:22,200 Speaker 1: be roughly one meter per year, it would have taken 315 00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:26,520 Speaker 1: approximately six thousand years to cover the distance indicated at 316 00:18:26,560 --> 00:18:29,840 Speaker 1: the surface by its effects, though they acknowledged the fire 317 00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:32,800 Speaker 1: may in fact have been burning for a much longer period. 318 00:18:33,359 --> 00:18:35,080 Speaker 1: But it's kind of nice that that's some nice even 319 00:18:35,119 --> 00:18:37,040 Speaker 1: math to round it out, right. So if it's gone 320 00:18:37,040 --> 00:18:39,840 Speaker 1: about six kilometers and it's going about one meter per year, 321 00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:43,040 Speaker 1: it seems to have been traveling for at least around 322 00:18:43,119 --> 00:18:46,360 Speaker 1: six thousand years. And I don't know how credible these 323 00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:49,000 Speaker 1: next claims are because I don't know the methodology behind them, 324 00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:51,960 Speaker 1: but I've at least seen it stated in some other 325 00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:54,879 Speaker 1: articles that the fire could be much older, maybe more 326 00:18:54,920 --> 00:18:56,919 Speaker 1: than a hundred thousand years old, but I don't know 327 00:18:56,920 --> 00:18:59,320 Speaker 1: why anybody would say that. So, as far as I 328 00:18:59,359 --> 00:19:02,520 Speaker 1: can tell, even if only the low end estimate of 329 00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:05,520 Speaker 1: six thousand years is true, that would make the Burning 330 00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:09,280 Speaker 1: Mountain the longest burning fire on planet Earth. Yeah, I 331 00:19:09,320 --> 00:19:13,080 Speaker 1: mean that that dwarfs anything we've discussed thus far or 332 00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:16,480 Speaker 1: will discuss. After this, I was reading about the site 333 00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:21,080 Speaker 1: on the National Parks Australia page and they actually summarized 334 00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:26,040 Speaker 1: a Wannaroua story about the origin of the mountain, which 335 00:19:26,320 --> 00:19:29,840 Speaker 1: was that there was a woman who was waiting for 336 00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:33,359 Speaker 1: her husband to return from battle, and she was sitting 337 00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:36,240 Speaker 1: upon the mountain and her husband did not return, so 338 00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:38,520 Speaker 1: I guess he was killed in battle. And when when 339 00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:42,239 Speaker 1: he didn't come back, she was so distraught that she 340 00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:45,679 Speaker 1: cried out to the sky god beyalm Me to to 341 00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:49,400 Speaker 1: kill her. And the god did not kill her. Instead 342 00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:53,239 Speaker 1: he turned her into stone, and so the tears she 343 00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:58,880 Speaker 1: wept became fire and set the mountain itself on fire. Now, 344 00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:02,720 Speaker 1: this is this is a site that that that the 345 00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:06,399 Speaker 1: people can go and see. Uh. You can be looking 346 00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:08,679 Speaker 1: it up on the website here. Uh, you can go 347 00:20:08,760 --> 00:20:11,920 Speaker 1: to Burning Mountain Nature Reserve and there's a one a 348 00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:14,520 Speaker 1: one to two hour hike you can take and you 349 00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:17,720 Speaker 1: can go to this observation platform that's also visible in 350 00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:20,439 Speaker 1: the drone footage that we were looking at. So I 351 00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:23,000 Speaker 1: know we have a number of listeners out there in Australia. 352 00:20:23,040 --> 00:20:25,320 Speaker 1: So if anyone out there has has been to this 353 00:20:25,359 --> 00:20:28,920 Speaker 1: site and has some firsthand experience they would like to share, 354 00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:31,320 Speaker 1: we'd love to hear about it. Yeah, totally. If you've 355 00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:33,560 Speaker 1: been there right in, let us know what it's like. Yeah. 356 00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:35,960 Speaker 1: The website also points out please note remember to take 357 00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:38,639 Speaker 1: your binoculars if you want to bird watch, because serious 358 00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:51,359 Speaker 1: bird watchers are like Burning Mountain. No, no, those birds Okay. 359 00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:56,040 Speaker 1: But so this is one type of naturally fueled fire, right. 360 00:20:56,080 --> 00:20:58,760 Speaker 1: This is a coal seam fire, and there are other 361 00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:01,240 Speaker 1: fires like it, though none that we know of that 362 00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:03,520 Speaker 1: are as old as this one. Some of the other 363 00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:07,080 Speaker 1: major ones actually have clear human origins, like there were 364 00:21:07,119 --> 00:21:10,800 Speaker 1: some famous ones in uh in the coal mining regions 365 00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:14,760 Speaker 1: the United States, like the famous Centralia fire in Pennsylvania. 366 00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:17,199 Speaker 1: There also I know a lot of coal seam fires 367 00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:20,920 Speaker 1: throughout China where places that have where coal has been 368 00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:24,520 Speaker 1: mined have accidentally been set a light. How long has 369 00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:28,000 Speaker 1: the Springfield tire uh fire supposed to have been going 370 00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:31,159 Speaker 1: on on the SIMP cells, we wouldn't have our tire fire, 371 00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:35,680 Speaker 1: and um, I don't know how long is how many 372 00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:42,360 Speaker 1: years has Simpson's been on? Seventy four years at this point. Now. 373 00:21:42,359 --> 00:21:45,639 Speaker 1: Coal seam fires have all kinds of interesting characteristics and 374 00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:48,160 Speaker 1: also that they can be incredibly troublesome because of course 375 00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:51,720 Speaker 1: they're just sitting there belching smoke into the atmosphere without 376 00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:54,119 Speaker 1: even being of use. I mean, it's not even like 377 00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:57,359 Speaker 1: a coal power plant that is belching the you know, 378 00:21:57,520 --> 00:22:00,159 Speaker 1: this carbon into the atmosphere and polluting the air, but 379 00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:01,919 Speaker 1: at least you're getting power out of it. This is 380 00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:05,240 Speaker 1: just doing that and nothing's coming from it. It's just burning, 381 00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:08,159 Speaker 1: and it's in many cases hard or even impossible to 382 00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:10,280 Speaker 1: put these out. I know there have been various schemes 383 00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:14,080 Speaker 1: involving dumping like liquid nitrogen and stuff in and and 384 00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:17,000 Speaker 1: some of these have just proven pretty much impossible for 385 00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:19,840 Speaker 1: people to extinguish. Yeah, though it is interesting how it 386 00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:25,520 Speaker 1: is kind of the naturally occurring equivalent of of human 387 00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:28,560 Speaker 1: coal industry, you know, like it because of uh, because 388 00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:31,600 Speaker 1: it's it's coal, it's burning, it's just not doing anything 389 00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:35,600 Speaker 1: for humans. Uh So, coal, of course, is is a 390 00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:39,080 Speaker 1: fossil fuel formed from ancient organic matter converted through heat 391 00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:41,880 Speaker 1: and pressure. And like we've been saying, coal seams are 392 00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:44,360 Speaker 1: just blanket like coal deposits in the rock, and when 393 00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:47,360 Speaker 1: exposed in an outcrop or even in an underground environment, 394 00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:50,680 Speaker 1: these seams can and will burn. Yeah, if oxygen can 395 00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:54,040 Speaker 1: get to the coal, that's that's dangerous, right, But of 396 00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:56,680 Speaker 1: course this is not the only natural fossil fuel that 397 00:22:56,840 --> 00:22:59,719 Speaker 1: can be set alight and lead to a sort of 398 00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:04,920 Speaker 1: assistant ongoing fire that that stretches beyond human control. That's right. 399 00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:07,200 Speaker 1: One of the big ones here is um is a 400 00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:10,960 Speaker 1: is a natural gas fueled fire, And this is exactly 401 00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:13,640 Speaker 1: what it sounds like. Natural gas is of course, also 402 00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:16,879 Speaker 1: a fossil fuel formed underground due to high temperatures and 403 00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:22,360 Speaker 1: high compression of ancient organic matter into flammable thermogenic methane. 404 00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:26,040 Speaker 1: As opposed to biogenic methane, which is produced by organisms. 405 00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:30,480 Speaker 1: Deposits of natural gas occurrent smaller amounts at at shallower 406 00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:34,320 Speaker 1: depths near oil deposits, and in deeper deposits of mostly 407 00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:38,159 Speaker 1: just natural gas. There are several different classifications that we 408 00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:39,879 Speaker 1: can work with here UM and I'm not going to 409 00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:42,400 Speaker 1: go into detail on on these, but there's conventional gas, 410 00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:47,600 Speaker 1: there's biogas, deep natural gas, shale tight gas, coal bed methane, 411 00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:53,679 Speaker 1: submarine methane, hydrate gas, and geo pressurized zone gas. UM. 412 00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:56,120 Speaker 1: So the basics though, are that if conditions are right, 413 00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:59,240 Speaker 1: natural gas forms within the Earth over geologic time, and 414 00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:02,679 Speaker 1: if conditions are also right, that gas can leak to 415 00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:06,480 Speaker 1: the surface without human industry playing a hand in any 416 00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:10,400 Speaker 1: of it. And if that that natural leakage of gas 417 00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:14,840 Speaker 1: should encounter a spark a flame, well then you have 418 00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:19,080 Speaker 1: yourself potentially a jet of fire uh emerging from the earth. 419 00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:21,479 Speaker 1: Right the earth itself can sort of have a pilot 420 00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:24,560 Speaker 1: light going. It's just there is a continuous release of 421 00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:27,720 Speaker 1: natural gas, which is flammable, and if the flame gets going, 422 00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:30,800 Speaker 1: the heat is there. The fuel is continuously supplies as 423 00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:33,240 Speaker 1: it leaks out of the ground, and the oxygen is 424 00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:35,800 Speaker 1: there in the atmosphere because it's meeting the surface. So 425 00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:37,720 Speaker 1: you can just have a flame that comes out of 426 00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:40,280 Speaker 1: the ground and just burns and burns and burns and 427 00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:43,480 Speaker 1: burns as long as the as long as the gas 428 00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:47,479 Speaker 1: is continually escaping. Yeah, and uh, and very very shortly 429 00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:49,720 Speaker 1: here we'll have a I think a great example of this. 430 00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:55,159 Speaker 1: But another possibility worth mentionment mentioning here is that of 431 00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:58,480 Speaker 1: pete fires. So pete is found in shallow wetlands such 432 00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:01,919 Speaker 1: as swamps and bogs, large deposits of plant matter have 433 00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:06,639 Speaker 1: decomposed under anaerobic conditions. Pete has a number of different 434 00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:12,560 Speaker 1: uses for in human technology, including gardening, filtration, chemical absorption techniques. 435 00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:15,880 Speaker 1: But it's high in carbon, so if it drives out enough, 436 00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:19,800 Speaker 1: it can catch fire. And I've read stories about the these. Uh. 437 00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:22,320 Speaker 1: Pete fires that get out of hand can also be 438 00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:25,480 Speaker 1: incredibly difficult to deal with. But it is interesting because 439 00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:28,359 Speaker 1: you don't necessarily think of something in the bog being 440 00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:31,800 Speaker 1: flammable like this. You don't. I don't know why don't you. 441 00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:35,639 Speaker 1: I mean, you do think of things like swamp gas 442 00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:37,800 Speaker 1: and um and you know we've talked in the past 443 00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:40,439 Speaker 1: the whisp will of the whisp. Yeah, but you can 444 00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:42,439 Speaker 1: also imagine yourself in this environment, being like it is 445 00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:45,240 Speaker 1: so damp here it is, it is so wet. How 446 00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:48,080 Speaker 1: could anything possibly burn on its own without humans playing 447 00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:50,600 Speaker 1: a direct hand in it? Right? All right? So coming 448 00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:57,080 Speaker 1: back to natural gas powered uh, naturally fueled flames, I 449 00:25:57,119 --> 00:25:59,320 Speaker 1: want to come to some what I thought were just 450 00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:02,679 Speaker 1: fascinating examples that I don't think I was really familiar 451 00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:05,800 Speaker 1: with any of these because they concern what is now 452 00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:12,280 Speaker 1: Agebajan on the the Absorm Peninsula. This was a region 453 00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:16,560 Speaker 1: that was under the domain of Schirvan in ancient times, 454 00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:20,960 Speaker 1: but came under the domain of Imperial Russia, the Ottoman Empire, Iran, 455 00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:26,240 Speaker 1: and Soviet Russia during the twentieth century. UM. And this 456 00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:28,080 Speaker 1: is an area where there is a lot of a 457 00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:33,080 Speaker 1: lot of petroleum and also various examples of natural gas 458 00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:36,320 Speaker 1: emerging from the ground that that I thought we might 459 00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:40,760 Speaker 1: discuss here, Okay, alright, So it takes us to what 460 00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:44,600 Speaker 1: is now the capital city of Azerba jean Baku. Uh. 461 00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:48,919 Speaker 1: It's a hosted numerous sites of interest, including the Maiden Tower, 462 00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:53,680 Speaker 1: a twelfth century construction with a very intriguing design. Its 463 00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:58,280 Speaker 1: origins are often explained in a tale concerning fire Um. 464 00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:02,639 Speaker 1: In particular, there are a few different Zoroastrian legends about 465 00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:05,480 Speaker 1: this structure, and I included a picture here for you, Joe, 466 00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:08,879 Speaker 1: and I encourage listeners to look up images of this, uh, 467 00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:12,480 Speaker 1: this this structure because it's it's it's quite picturesque. I 468 00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:14,800 Speaker 1: don't think I've seen anything quite like it. It's it's 469 00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:19,080 Speaker 1: rather different from from from other twelfth century constructions and 470 00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:25,160 Speaker 1: certainly from other archaeological traditions in other parts of the world. Yeah. Yeah, 471 00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:29,040 Speaker 1: And this is also interesting because, of course fire has 472 00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:35,000 Speaker 1: very important religious significance within Zoroastrianism. I've sometimes heard Zoroastrianism, 473 00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:39,000 Speaker 1: I think incorrectly described as a fire worshiping religion, and 474 00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:41,080 Speaker 1: I don't think that's quite right, because fire is not 475 00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:44,520 Speaker 1: like a god or the god of zoro Asternism, like 476 00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:47,679 Speaker 1: the the god of Zoroastrianism is the is Hura Mazda, 477 00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:51,000 Speaker 1: you know that, the god of good and light um. 478 00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:57,439 Speaker 1: But but fire is an important religious symbol within You 479 00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:00,400 Speaker 1: do see these ancient accounts by foreigners generally who come 480 00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:02,159 Speaker 1: into this region and they're like, oh, yeah, they worshiped 481 00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:04,919 Speaker 1: fire here. But I think you could very easily compare 482 00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:07,760 Speaker 1: that to accounts of say Europeans going into many other 483 00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:09,840 Speaker 1: parts of the world and saying, hey, they worshiped demons, here, 484 00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:13,639 Speaker 1: they worship devils. They're not Christian at all. So, uh, 485 00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:17,360 Speaker 1: you know, it's it's ultimately, I think more complicated than that. 486 00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:20,560 Speaker 1: But there is this element of fire that does pop 487 00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:23,840 Speaker 1: up in some of the religious traditions in this area. 488 00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:27,080 Speaker 1: I think maybe this might be a very rough analogy, 489 00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:29,040 Speaker 1: but it would be kind of like mistakenly saying that 490 00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:32,960 Speaker 1: Christians worship a cross made of wood, right, Yeah, yeah, 491 00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:35,400 Speaker 1: I think I think that that that gets at it. Yeah. Oh, 492 00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:37,199 Speaker 1: but but so I want to know this legend. You 493 00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:42,160 Speaker 1: mentioned a Zoroastrian legend concerning the Maiden Tower, this intriguing 494 00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:47,800 Speaker 1: and beautiful building, uh, and its origins concerning fire. Yes, 495 00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:50,800 Speaker 1: and I was I was reading. Center was essentially a 496 00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:56,600 Speaker 1: post that was put together by Professor Mahir Khalifa Zade 497 00:28:56,880 --> 00:29:01,440 Speaker 1: and Laila Khalifa Zade, and uh. They point out that 498 00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:05,000 Speaker 1: there there are several different legends tie that concerned fire 499 00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:08,800 Speaker 1: and concern this to this tower, the maid In Tower. Um. 500 00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:12,440 Speaker 1: But the basic story that really captivated my attention was 501 00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:14,959 Speaker 1: this idea that Okay, you have this very brutal siege 502 00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:18,440 Speaker 1: that's taking place at the city of Baku, and the 503 00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:21,920 Speaker 1: people there they pray before the holy fires of the 504 00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:26,440 Speaker 1: Fire Temple to Ahura Mazda to save them again. This 505 00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:31,000 Speaker 1: is the creator deity of Zoroastrianism. And I'm gonna quote this, uh, 506 00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:34,640 Speaker 1: this bit, uh, just a bit from the paper here 507 00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:39,280 Speaker 1: or the post by Khalifa Zade here. Quote. Finally he 508 00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:41,800 Speaker 1: heard their prayers. On the next day, the people saw 509 00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:44,960 Speaker 1: that a large piece of the holy fire was fell 510 00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:46,960 Speaker 1: down to the earth from the top of the fire 511 00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:50,200 Speaker 1: temple tower. A beautiful girl came up from the fire. 512 00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:54,080 Speaker 1: She had long and fire colored hairs. The crowd went 513 00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:56,400 Speaker 1: down on their knees and started to pray to her. 514 00:29:57,120 --> 00:29:59,720 Speaker 1: And so from here basically what happens. The fire maiden says, hey, 515 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,080 Speaker 1: I am sent here to protect you, but I'm gonna 516 00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:04,720 Speaker 1: need a sword and I'm gonna need a helmet to 517 00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:08,760 Speaker 1: hide my long, beautiful hair from the enemy. The enemy 518 00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:13,280 Speaker 1: cannot see my hair. Um, so they outfit her with 519 00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:16,760 Speaker 1: these items. She orders the gates thrown open, and then 520 00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:19,520 Speaker 1: a great battle ensues and she engages. He winds up 521 00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:23,080 Speaker 1: engaging in single combat with the enemy commander, who just 522 00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:25,840 Speaker 1: assumes she's just another one of the male soldiers of 523 00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:30,120 Speaker 1: the city, you know, dressed in the helmet, wielding a sword. Uh. 524 00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:33,240 Speaker 1: So she ends up knocking the commander down, and then 525 00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:35,320 Speaker 1: she pulls a knife and holds it to his throat, 526 00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:37,560 Speaker 1: and he asked to see the face of the warrior 527 00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:40,720 Speaker 1: who has bested him, so she shows him. She takes 528 00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:43,040 Speaker 1: the helm off, and he's shocked to see the face 529 00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:45,760 Speaker 1: of a girl in the long, beautiful, flame colored hair 530 00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:49,840 Speaker 1: of a girl. And first he realizes, Okay, first of all, 531 00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:53,160 Speaker 1: if this is what the girls of Baku are capable of, 532 00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:55,880 Speaker 1: you know, if they're this tough, then we don't have 533 00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:58,960 Speaker 1: a chance against the rest of the army. But then 534 00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:01,880 Speaker 1: he also falls in love with her instantly, and then 535 00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:05,080 Speaker 1: she falls in love with him, and then peace is declared. 536 00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:07,520 Speaker 1: Oh didn't see that coming. Yeah, yeah, it kind of 537 00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:11,360 Speaker 1: has goes in a direction I didn't. I didn't expect there. Um, 538 00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:13,160 Speaker 1: and uh, you know, I mean, who knows you with 539 00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:15,480 Speaker 1: stories like this, you can't have multiple stories, I guess, 540 00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:19,040 Speaker 1: kind of merging together and twisting over time. And at 541 00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:20,760 Speaker 1: some point someone decides, what if it had a what 542 00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:25,080 Speaker 1: if it had a romantic ending? Um and ultimately um 543 00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:29,120 Speaker 1: Khalifa Zade shares a few other versions where you know, 544 00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:32,400 Speaker 1: various other things occur, and also mentions that the tower 545 00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:35,080 Speaker 1: might just be called the maid In Tower because it 546 00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:37,640 Speaker 1: was never conquered by the enemy. It's the ideas like this, 547 00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:40,160 Speaker 1: this tower is it's it's a virgin tower. The enemy 548 00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:50,000 Speaker 1: has never defiled it. I see. So you have this 549 00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:55,480 Speaker 1: history in Baku, you know, concerning fire and uh and 550 00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:57,800 Speaker 1: and you know, it's it's the character the city seems 551 00:31:57,880 --> 00:31:59,840 Speaker 1: very much associated with it. And you see that even 552 00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:03,120 Speaker 1: in the city's modern wonders. There's a there there's a 553 00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:06,160 Speaker 1: trio of skyscrapers. They are known as the Flame Towers, 554 00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:09,160 Speaker 1: and they're they're they're very beautiful. In the pictures I 555 00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:12,600 Speaker 1: looked at, they have this kind of curling flame shape 556 00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:14,880 Speaker 1: to them, and so you know, during the day they're 557 00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:18,840 Speaker 1: reflective glass and steel, very much like like any other 558 00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:21,640 Speaker 1: modern skyscrapers. But I've also seen images where they lighted 559 00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:24,600 Speaker 1: a light, the light these towers up at night with 560 00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:29,160 Speaker 1: you know, swirling orange and yellow and red and and 561 00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:32,320 Speaker 1: also some blue thrown in there as well. That really 562 00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:35,959 Speaker 1: make them look like strong depictions of flames curling up 563 00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:39,880 Speaker 1: from the earth. And this comes back to the idea 564 00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:43,480 Speaker 1: that this is a region rich in petroleum and natural gas, 565 00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:46,800 Speaker 1: and you have various sites of interest here that are 566 00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:51,240 Speaker 1: associated with that, including uh Jan a Dog also known 567 00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:54,760 Speaker 1: as the Burning Mountain uh and this is where natural 568 00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:58,120 Speaker 1: gas constantly seeps up through the ground and has been 569 00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:02,520 Speaker 1: a flame since at least the nineteen fifties, when um 570 00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:05,160 Speaker 1: it may have been ignited by shepherds. So this is 571 00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:08,960 Speaker 1: an example where uh you know, ultimately who knows, but 572 00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:11,600 Speaker 1: at least one of the other stories out there is that, okay, 573 00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:13,520 Speaker 1: there's gas leaking up and then some shepherds set it 574 00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:17,360 Speaker 1: on fire in the fifties, um, and by some accounts 575 00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:21,200 Speaker 1: it has been burning ever since. Flames reportedly jet about 576 00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:24,440 Speaker 1: three meters or nine point eight feet into the air 577 00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:28,960 Speaker 1: from from this site. And I looked up images of 578 00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:31,360 Speaker 1: this site, and this is another one where if you're 579 00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:34,840 Speaker 1: going into this expecting something out of mortor you're probably 580 00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:38,760 Speaker 1: gonna be disappointed. It's basically this this hillside, and there's 581 00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:41,560 Speaker 1: a there's an area where there's not any vegetation, and 582 00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:43,920 Speaker 1: there's an area that's really dark, and then here are 583 00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:47,600 Speaker 1: the fires springing out of the earth. Now, this area 584 00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:50,040 Speaker 1: is also known for its mud volcanoes, which are not 585 00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:54,200 Speaker 1: true volcanoes as they don't produce lava instead. Uh uh. 586 00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:56,600 Speaker 1: And I have to throw in this wonderful description that 587 00:33:56,640 --> 00:33:59,560 Speaker 1: I found for mud volcanoes in general from Brewster at 588 00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:05,200 Speaker 1: All in article in geo Echo Marina. They say that 589 00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:11,800 Speaker 1: these are geo exuded slurries including usually including water and gases. 590 00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:15,320 Speaker 1: So they look like a like a bit like um 591 00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:19,600 Speaker 1: like bubbling mud like gas rising up through the mud. Uh, 592 00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:21,960 Speaker 1: you know, forming these big bub bubbles. It has kind 593 00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:24,520 Speaker 1: of a bog of eternal stinch kind of a look 594 00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:27,279 Speaker 1: to it. And you know, some of these also looks 595 00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:29,520 Speaker 1: very much like an alien world, like you have this 596 00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:32,320 Speaker 1: this kind of barren landscape and here's like the bubbling 597 00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:35,399 Speaker 1: pool of mud. Years ago, I think I flagged mud 598 00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:38,600 Speaker 1: volcanoes as a is a potential episode topic for us. 599 00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:41,000 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, we could easily come back to it. Yeah, 600 00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:44,879 Speaker 1: weird sort of gray clay puke coming up from these 601 00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:49,480 Speaker 1: these cracked blisters in the earth. It's it's pretty cool. Yeah. Now, 602 00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:54,200 Speaker 1: this this region of of of of Sasani has long 603 00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:58,680 Speaker 1: been associated again, often with fire worship or religious practices 604 00:34:58,719 --> 00:35:02,200 Speaker 1: that concern fire, and their accounts going back apparently to 605 00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:06,200 Speaker 1: the tenth century at least, but as luck would have it, 606 00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:10,120 Speaker 1: we also have accounts of this region from German traveler 607 00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:14,400 Speaker 1: Ingelbert Comfort, who visited here in sixteen eighty three and 608 00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:17,239 Speaker 1: just and and uh and has some wonderful descriptions of 609 00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:19,880 Speaker 1: what he saw. Inglebert Comfort, of course, popped up in 610 00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:22,759 Speaker 1: our Vegetable Lamb episode, Oh yeah, that's right, as one 611 00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:26,479 Speaker 1: of the early voices of skepticism about this story, saying 612 00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:29,399 Speaker 1: that I don't know. I traveled all over and people 613 00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:31,440 Speaker 1: don't really seem to know what what these stories are 614 00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:34,399 Speaker 1: talking about. I do not think there is a there 615 00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:38,759 Speaker 1: is a plant that makes lambs. Yes. So the book 616 00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:43,839 Speaker 1: in question is Exotic Attractions in Persia eighty four through 617 00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:47,239 Speaker 1: six eight, And I was looking at a translation of 618 00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:52,920 Speaker 1: this by Villiam Floor, which you can find on the 619 00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:55,399 Speaker 1: book or physical book out there. So I'm just gonna 620 00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:58,319 Speaker 1: read just a brief bit from it here where he's 621 00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:01,560 Speaker 1: talking about these fires. From there, we continued our march, 622 00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:05,000 Speaker 1: and after midday we came to the burning field covered 623 00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:09,280 Speaker 1: with white sand and sprinkled with ashy dust. From numerous fissures. 624 00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:14,120 Speaker 1: Sulfurous spouts burst from the soil, a varied and pleasant spectacle. 625 00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:17,480 Speaker 1: Some fissures made a lot of noise, and with their 626 00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:20,759 Speaker 1: fires and their violence, aroused a holy fear among some 627 00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:25,680 Speaker 1: rare spectators. Others again emitted less strong flames, allowing everybody 628 00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:30,320 Speaker 1: to come quite close. Others exhaled fumes or rather hardly 629 00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:35,640 Speaker 1: visible vapors, but which reeked strongly of the spirit of Nafta. 630 00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:39,440 Speaker 1: These phenomena appeared in the area of eighty eight paces 631 00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:44,600 Speaker 1: in length wide. The fissures were amazingly narrow, not wider 632 00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:48,200 Speaker 1: than one foot or one palm, some shorter and drawn 633 00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:51,759 Speaker 1: into a semicircle, and others crooked with a long and 634 00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:55,920 Speaker 1: sinuous bend, which I have shown accurately and conform to 635 00:36:56,080 --> 00:37:00,600 Speaker 1: reality in the appended illustration to complete this description. The 636 00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:03,319 Speaker 1: edges of these cracks and the soil itself, when you 637 00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:07,160 Speaker 1: remove the dust, showed a pox marked light stone, almost 638 00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:11,000 Speaker 1: like pumice stone. The matter seemed to be a conglomerate 639 00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:15,160 Speaker 1: of seashells and minuscule snail shells. We came upon about 640 00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:18,000 Speaker 1: a dozen people who stayed there who around a fire, 641 00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:21,000 Speaker 1: were engaged in all kinds of activities. In fact, some, 642 00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:24,960 Speaker 1: having placed copper or earthenware pots on a not too 643 00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:28,239 Speaker 1: blazing crack, prepared the meals for the inhabitants of the 644 00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:33,239 Speaker 1: neighboring village of Sorgani at Swaga, thus named because of 645 00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:36,840 Speaker 1: the fire. Others, having brought stones from all around, and 646 00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:40,680 Speaker 1: having heaped them together, were burning lime, and once, when ready, 647 00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:43,719 Speaker 1: they made a pile to transport it in small vessels. 648 00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:48,520 Speaker 1: Two foreigners, Indian fire worshippers descended from the ancient Persians, 649 00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:52,359 Speaker 1: were quietly seated around an enclosure they had constructed. They 650 00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:55,840 Speaker 1: watched and venerated the spouting flame, offering prayers to the 651 00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:59,080 Speaker 1: eternal God. One of the lime burners had approached us, 652 00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:02,880 Speaker 1: proposing to show us something particularly extraordinary. If for this surface, 653 00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:06,200 Speaker 1: we offered him some money. When we had counted it, 654 00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:08,960 Speaker 1: he placed small cotton balls that he tore from his 655 00:38:09,040 --> 00:38:12,200 Speaker 1: dress on a fire shovel and set fire to them. 656 00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:14,600 Speaker 1: Then he very quickly took the flame obtained in that 657 00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:17,879 Speaker 1: fashion above a fissure at some distance which had neither 658 00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:21,640 Speaker 1: fire nor flame. Its vapor was everywhere invisible until it 659 00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:24,840 Speaker 1: produced a very high flame. This was a beautiful and 660 00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:28,200 Speaker 1: unexpected moment, but the flame disappeared again after a while. 661 00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:31,200 Speaker 1: Such is the first appearance of the wonders of nature, 662 00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:33,600 Speaker 1: well known in this part of the peninsula, but not 663 00:38:33,719 --> 00:38:38,360 Speaker 1: in the same place, and eternally remain in people's memory. Wow. Yeah, 664 00:38:38,680 --> 00:38:41,640 Speaker 1: so yeah, I love everything about that account. That's oh yeah, yeah, 665 00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:46,480 Speaker 1: it's wonderful. Though. I have to notice Camphor mentions cotton, 666 00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:50,719 Speaker 1: thinking back to the vegetable lamb thing, So he knew 667 00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:53,200 Speaker 1: about he knew about cotton, at least I'm assuming this 668 00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:56,400 Speaker 1: translation is accurate and that is what he meant instead 669 00:38:56,400 --> 00:38:59,640 Speaker 1: of using the word for wool or something. That's a 670 00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:02,640 Speaker 1: good point. That's a good point. So again, that is 671 00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:08,640 Speaker 1: from Exotic Attractions in Persia by by Ingolbert Comfort And 672 00:39:08,880 --> 00:39:10,960 Speaker 1: you can pick up a copy of that that comes 673 00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:13,839 Speaker 1: out from this out from major publishers. Uh. And there 674 00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:17,400 Speaker 1: is a kindle addition. But there's another side of interest 675 00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:21,320 Speaker 1: related to all of this, and that is the Atashka 676 00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:24,600 Speaker 1: Fire Temple or the Fire Temple of Baku. This is 677 00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:28,960 Speaker 1: a square building with pentagonal walls and a domed roof 678 00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:33,759 Speaker 1: constructed atop a natural gas leak that provides fuel for 679 00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:36,799 Speaker 1: a large flame in the center of the temple, as 680 00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:39,759 Speaker 1: well as for four smaller flames on each of the 681 00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:43,880 Speaker 1: buildings on the roof. Basically there are four small almost 682 00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:46,799 Speaker 1: like little towers, one at each corner of the of 683 00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:50,359 Speaker 1: the roof, and those are flaming as well. Oh wow, 684 00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:54,360 Speaker 1: So this is a temple, a religious building built around 685 00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:58,399 Speaker 1: a natural gas leak. Yeah. So I love this because 686 00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:01,080 Speaker 1: in that comfort account we had an example of people 687 00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:06,000 Speaker 1: cooking over one of these naturally occurring bouts of gas 688 00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:09,520 Speaker 1: and spouts of flame. Uh and uh. And now we 689 00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:13,520 Speaker 1: have an actual structure that is not not only like 690 00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:17,080 Speaker 1: built around this, but but seems to be manipulating the 691 00:40:17,080 --> 00:40:21,080 Speaker 1: flow of gas so that you can have additional fires 692 00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:25,680 Speaker 1: control fires burning at the top of the temple. Yeah. Yeah. 693 00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:28,719 Speaker 1: And you know there's some old woodcuts of this and 694 00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:31,080 Speaker 1: uh and and also you know you can find modern 695 00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:34,440 Speaker 1: photos of it as well. Um. It's been a place 696 00:40:34,520 --> 00:40:39,600 Speaker 1: for Hindu seek and Zoroastrian worship, um and uh. It 697 00:40:39,640 --> 00:40:43,000 Speaker 1: seems to be some debate on who originally worshiped here, 698 00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:46,000 Speaker 1: and part of this may be due to what Mary 699 00:40:46,080 --> 00:40:50,520 Speaker 1: Boyce described in the on the Zoroastrian temple cult of 700 00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:53,800 Speaker 1: Fire published in the Journal of the American Oriental Society 701 00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:58,200 Speaker 1: as quote the dearth of records of Zoroastrianism at any 702 00:40:58,200 --> 00:41:02,000 Speaker 1: period before the seventeenth sent Tree ce. But Boys points 703 00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:04,439 Speaker 1: out a few different ideas about the history of these 704 00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:07,560 Speaker 1: fire temples again in the in the particularly mainly and 705 00:41:07,719 --> 00:41:11,239 Speaker 1: we were talking about in the Baku region. First of all, 706 00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:15,080 Speaker 1: okay I was like, surely we know it's older than that. 707 00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:18,399 Speaker 1: Okay I see in this region. So, first of all, 708 00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:22,160 Speaker 1: the history is complex due to the existence of both 709 00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:27,239 Speaker 1: Zoroastrian image cults and fire cults, and uh and there 710 00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:29,520 Speaker 1: seemed to be an offer a lot of overlap between 711 00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:33,320 Speaker 1: the two. So she says that the image cults seems 712 00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:36,440 Speaker 1: seemed to have lasted from the fourth century b c e. 713 00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:42,080 Speaker 1: Until they were suppressed by an iconoclastic movement under the 714 00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:45,680 Speaker 1: Sasanians or the Neo Persian Empire. And so in this 715 00:41:45,719 --> 00:41:48,880 Speaker 1: we're getting back into this idea that we have explored 716 00:41:48,920 --> 00:41:52,240 Speaker 1: in a previous episode about the role of images in worship. 717 00:41:53,719 --> 00:41:57,120 Speaker 1: So basically, uh and so the cult of the fire 718 00:41:57,160 --> 00:42:00,920 Speaker 1: temples may have been instituted in oppose adition to quote 719 00:42:01,160 --> 00:42:04,239 Speaker 1: this alien form of worship, and so I believe what 720 00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:08,640 Speaker 1: she's saying here is that as the use of images 721 00:42:08,680 --> 00:42:12,040 Speaker 1: were suppressed in their worship UH, they turned to the 722 00:42:12,040 --> 00:42:15,200 Speaker 1: flame itself as a focal point of worship. And we 723 00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:17,080 Speaker 1: can we can we see that reflected in that story 724 00:42:17,120 --> 00:42:22,200 Speaker 1: we were discussing earlier, praying to a hura mazda, but 725 00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:25,600 Speaker 1: using the flame is like the focal point of the worship. 726 00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:28,839 Speaker 1: And Boys also points out that this would you could 727 00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:32,200 Speaker 1: also link this to older traditions of the veneration of 728 00:42:32,520 --> 00:42:35,920 Speaker 1: hearth fires. And it goes without saying I guess as 729 00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:38,400 Speaker 1: well that this is a region with natural gas h 730 00:42:38,680 --> 00:42:41,239 Speaker 1: easily linked to natural flames, et cetera. So there's a 731 00:42:41,320 --> 00:42:44,640 Speaker 1: there's a there's a local aspect of this going on. 732 00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:47,400 Speaker 1: But then in general we also have these traditions of 733 00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:50,840 Speaker 1: keeping the fire and UH, into a certain extent, venerating 734 00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:54,239 Speaker 1: that fire and protecting it and looking after it. She 735 00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:56,880 Speaker 1: also points out that quote no actual ruins of a 736 00:42:56,920 --> 00:43:00,799 Speaker 1: fire temple have been convincingly identified from A four the 737 00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:06,920 Speaker 1: Parthian period. That's from b C. E C. Now, this 738 00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:11,799 Speaker 1: is another bit that I found quite interesting. Um So 739 00:43:12,040 --> 00:43:14,480 Speaker 1: this is a still I believe a candidate to become 740 00:43:14,520 --> 00:43:19,480 Speaker 1: a UNESCO World Heritage Site. The Temple the Flame temple here, 741 00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:23,640 Speaker 1: but the temple flame, reportedly according to UNESCO, went out 742 00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:27,880 Speaker 1: in eighteen eighty three due to petroleum activity in the region. 743 00:43:28,360 --> 00:43:33,000 Speaker 1: So now it's lit via an artificial gas line U 744 00:43:33,160 --> 00:43:36,080 Speaker 1: instead of natural gas emerging from the earth. So it's 745 00:43:36,120 --> 00:43:39,240 Speaker 1: interesting to think of this, this site and this date 746 00:43:39,480 --> 00:43:42,720 Speaker 1: in eight three is kind of a key boundary point 747 00:43:43,160 --> 00:43:46,600 Speaker 1: between the oil age and the age of fossil fuel 748 00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:50,640 Speaker 1: and the period preceding it, a time during which the 749 00:43:50,719 --> 00:43:55,160 Speaker 1: divine fire is extinguished and then is replaced by technological 750 00:43:55,200 --> 00:43:59,400 Speaker 1: mastery over fossil fuels and fire. Yeah. Yeah, interesting. So 751 00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:02,680 Speaker 1: I found all the just just richly um interesting. I 752 00:44:03,239 --> 00:44:05,160 Speaker 1: have I have to admit I had not read much 753 00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:10,800 Speaker 1: about age Bajan. I've never been to a Bajan. But this, 754 00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:12,880 Speaker 1: this is, this is all wonderful. I absolutely love it. 755 00:44:13,080 --> 00:44:14,640 Speaker 1: And I would love to hear from anyone out there 756 00:44:14,719 --> 00:44:17,319 Speaker 1: listening to the show who is in a Bajan or 757 00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:21,480 Speaker 1: as of of are Bajan the heritage that or is 758 00:44:21,560 --> 00:44:24,279 Speaker 1: just traveled there and seeing these sites right in let 759 00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:27,200 Speaker 1: us know. I'd love to have some you know, some 760 00:44:27,239 --> 00:44:30,239 Speaker 1: more insight on all of this. Alright, we're gonna go 761 00:44:30,280 --> 00:44:32,560 Speaker 1: and close it out here, but we're gonna be back 762 00:44:32,640 --> 00:44:35,400 Speaker 1: and and hey, we might keep talking on this this 763 00:44:35,480 --> 00:44:37,959 Speaker 1: topic that the train is in motion and there's there's 764 00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:41,480 Speaker 1: certainly more we could discuss here. The burning continues, the 765 00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:44,200 Speaker 1: fuel has not been extinguished yet so so so this 766 00:44:44,280 --> 00:44:46,600 Speaker 1: may go on next week, all right, in the in 767 00:44:46,640 --> 00:44:48,759 Speaker 1: the meantime, again, we'd love to hear from everyone out 768 00:44:48,760 --> 00:44:53,000 Speaker 1: there has additional inside firsthand or otherwise on the topics 769 00:44:53,000 --> 00:44:56,319 Speaker 1: we've discussed here, um, you know, and h and also 770 00:44:56,400 --> 00:44:59,440 Speaker 1: anything about the previous episode or there are other episodes 771 00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:01,880 Speaker 1: that have come before, or potential episodes we could record 772 00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:05,880 Speaker 1: in the future. Um. As a reminder, Core episodes of 773 00:45:05,880 --> 00:45:08,840 Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow Your Mind air on Tuesdays and Thursdays 774 00:45:08,840 --> 00:45:11,000 Speaker 1: and the Stuff to Blow your Mind podcast feed and 775 00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:13,360 Speaker 1: can get that wherever you get your podcasts these days. 776 00:45:13,760 --> 00:45:17,080 Speaker 1: On Monday's we do listener Mail. On Wednesday's we do 777 00:45:17,080 --> 00:45:19,600 Speaker 1: a short form artifact were Monster Fact. On Fridays we 778 00:45:19,640 --> 00:45:21,640 Speaker 1: do Weird How Cinema. That's our time to set aside 779 00:45:21,640 --> 00:45:24,520 Speaker 1: most serious concerns and just talk about a strange film. 780 00:45:24,600 --> 00:45:27,760 Speaker 1: Huge thanks as always, to our excellent audio producer Seth 781 00:45:27,840 --> 00:45:30,439 Speaker 1: Nicholas Johnson. If you would like to get in touch 782 00:45:30,480 --> 00:45:32,839 Speaker 1: with us with feedback on this episode or any other, 783 00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:36,640 Speaker 1: to say hello or to suggest it for the future, 784 00:45:36,719 --> 00:45:40,120 Speaker 1: you can email us at contact at stuff to Blow 785 00:45:40,160 --> 00:45:50,080 Speaker 1: your Mind dot com. Stuff to Blow your Mind. It's 786 00:45:50,120 --> 00:45:52,799 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts for my 787 00:45:52,840 --> 00:45:55,880 Speaker 1: Heart Radio with the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or 788 00:45:55,920 --> 00:46:02,279 Speaker 1: wherever you're listening to your favorite shows. The Bigger than 789 00:46:02,320 --> 00:46:10,120 Speaker 1: the four four