1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:27,880 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Welcome 2 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:30,880 Speaker 1: to the show, Ridiculous Historians. Thank you so much for 3 00:00:31,040 --> 00:00:35,920 Speaker 1: tuning in. We we have a a bit of a 4 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:38,440 Speaker 1: disclaimer I think, or a bit of a bit of 5 00:00:38,440 --> 00:00:41,080 Speaker 1: a thing we must say for the beginning of this episode, 6 00:00:41,120 --> 00:00:43,120 Speaker 1: and is just like a trigger warning or now is 7 00:00:43,159 --> 00:00:45,159 Speaker 1: that different? Is that the same as a disclaimer? I 8 00:00:45,159 --> 00:00:47,199 Speaker 1: I guess a trigger warning is a genre of a 9 00:00:47,240 --> 00:00:50,760 Speaker 1: disclaimer knoll Um. But yeah, either way, it's it's a 10 00:00:50,840 --> 00:00:53,000 Speaker 1: thing you have to say at the top this episode. 11 00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:55,440 Speaker 1: We are kind of a family show, you know, you 12 00:00:55,520 --> 00:00:59,360 Speaker 1: and I we were, and our super producer Paul Mission 13 00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:08,160 Speaker 1: controlled that Kent as well as our super producer Casey Pegram, 14 00:01:08,240 --> 00:01:10,319 Speaker 1: who has returned, as it turns out, from his secret 15 00:01:10,400 --> 00:01:14,520 Speaker 1: life as an international criminal. What is the exactly again? 16 00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:16,360 Speaker 1: I keep getting them the stories mixed up? He is, 17 00:01:16,400 --> 00:01:20,479 Speaker 1: simply so, you know, all of us on this show, 18 00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:24,920 Speaker 1: including our including our producer Maya Cole give it up 19 00:01:24,959 --> 00:01:27,240 Speaker 1: for her. Its our first day you know wave tour. 20 00:01:27,640 --> 00:01:32,119 Speaker 1: They're all of us are generally like PG people, maybe 21 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:34,959 Speaker 1: PG thirteen. This is not a it's not a hard hitting, 22 00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:38,640 Speaker 1: mature theme show. And on the show. On this show, 23 00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:41,000 Speaker 1: we in our personal lives, we can oh my gosh, 24 00:01:41,240 --> 00:01:45,000 Speaker 1: it goes off wow very quickly. But but today's show 25 00:01:45,640 --> 00:01:50,560 Speaker 1: uh no Fooling does encounter some things that may not 26 00:01:50,720 --> 00:01:55,360 Speaker 1: be may not be appropriate for all listeners. So if 27 00:01:55,400 --> 00:01:59,240 Speaker 1: you're one of the very very kind teachers whoever whoever 28 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:03,240 Speaker 1: uses show uh for for your students, surely that's not 29 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:06,800 Speaker 1: a thing I think cople of times. Yeah, But if 30 00:02:06,840 --> 00:02:10,400 Speaker 1: you're one of those teachers, UM, listen through the entirety 31 00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:13,200 Speaker 1: of this episode before playing it for your your students, 32 00:02:13,320 --> 00:02:15,320 Speaker 1: Or if you're some kind of prude and prone to 33 00:02:15,440 --> 00:02:18,880 Speaker 1: pearl clutching, um, I would also maybe skip this one, 34 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:21,120 Speaker 1: or maybe give it a go, and it will make 35 00:02:21,120 --> 00:02:23,000 Speaker 1: you grow up a little bit. You will have you, 36 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:26,119 Speaker 1: You'll have that Aladdin a whole New world moment. Right. 37 00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:29,160 Speaker 1: That's my favorite part of that movie. It is such 38 00:02:29,200 --> 00:02:31,760 Speaker 1: an amazing movie overall. Are you going to see the 39 00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:33,760 Speaker 1: live version? I gotta say that the physics of it 40 00:02:33,880 --> 00:02:36,600 Speaker 1: absolute garbage. They would be torn to shreds or they 41 00:02:36,600 --> 00:02:39,240 Speaker 1: would like suffocateing on the carpet. Give me a break. 42 00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:41,920 Speaker 1: I always thought the carpet sort of created this field. 43 00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:45,079 Speaker 1: You are vetsy magical thinking. I like that. It's it's 44 00:02:45,120 --> 00:02:48,320 Speaker 1: a story about magic. Is quality, suspension of disbelief, my friend, 45 00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:52,800 Speaker 1: well done, speaking suspension of disbelief. Yeah, that's a weird 46 00:02:52,919 --> 00:02:57,720 Speaker 1: that's a weird segue. But today's episode addresses a little 47 00:02:57,760 --> 00:03:03,720 Speaker 1: bit of hypocrisy in Catholic Church. Uh, addresses something that 48 00:03:04,080 --> 00:03:08,919 Speaker 1: you and I both I think found fascinating but maybe 49 00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:13,280 Speaker 1: not entirely surprising. Yeah, possibly a little titilating, Yes, yes, 50 00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:16,320 Speaker 1: a little a bit of twitter patient indeed, we should 51 00:03:16,320 --> 00:03:19,400 Speaker 1: get right to it. Um. Today's episode is I don't know, 52 00:03:19,440 --> 00:03:20,720 Speaker 1: you could kind of this is a bit of a 53 00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:22,080 Speaker 1: miss number to refer to it like this, but I 54 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:26,040 Speaker 1: still like it. The band sixteenth century pornographic sex guide 55 00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:31,640 Speaker 1: made in you guessed it, the Vatican True story. True story, folks, Yes, 56 00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:36,640 Speaker 1: this is this is entirely uh, this is entirely nonfictional. 57 00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:43,160 Speaker 1: So nowadays, when people think of the pope right the 58 00:03:43,160 --> 00:03:46,920 Speaker 1: the head of the Catholic Church, we typically are going 59 00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:53,280 Speaker 1: to think of maybe someone who's kind of isolated, kindly 60 00:03:53,440 --> 00:03:57,760 Speaker 1: older man in white with a unique set of hats. 61 00:03:58,720 --> 00:04:02,880 Speaker 1: But in sent trees leading up to the modern day, 62 00:04:03,120 --> 00:04:07,880 Speaker 1: popes were somewhat uh, salacious or what's that other word 63 00:04:07,920 --> 00:04:11,800 Speaker 1: we were, Yes, well, I mean, you know, here's the 64 00:04:11,840 --> 00:04:14,960 Speaker 1: thing too, there's a public facing pope ness, and then 65 00:04:14,960 --> 00:04:17,880 Speaker 1: there's the private facing Pope nous. I made up the 66 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:19,560 Speaker 1: word pop nous just now, but I thought it was good. 67 00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:21,680 Speaker 1: I think I'm okay with it. Um, But think about 68 00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:23,600 Speaker 1: I mean, we know this from all the expose a 69 00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:25,920 Speaker 1: s that have been going on about the Catholic Church 70 00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:29,279 Speaker 1: for decades now and beyond. Where As it turns out 71 00:04:29,320 --> 00:04:32,280 Speaker 1: some of these kindly older gentlemen in their you know, 72 00:04:32,400 --> 00:04:35,560 Speaker 1: robes and whatnot, we're actually not so kindly at all, 73 00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:38,600 Speaker 1: and we're doing pretty terrible things behind closed doors when 74 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:40,560 Speaker 1: they thought they could get away with it. Um, this 75 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:43,560 Speaker 1: is not that necessarily. This is a little more just 76 00:04:43,839 --> 00:04:46,920 Speaker 1: being a little on the naughty side and perhaps commissioning, 77 00:04:47,240 --> 00:04:49,200 Speaker 1: as legend would have it. There's different version of the 78 00:04:49,200 --> 00:04:53,599 Speaker 1: story some pornographic art in a particular space in the 79 00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:58,600 Speaker 1: Vatican that is now referred to as the solid Deconstantino, 80 00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:02,560 Speaker 1: Well done done, what an authentico accent? Oh thank you? 81 00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:06,360 Speaker 1: Do you remember that earlier conversation. Uh, this is the 82 00:05:06,440 --> 00:05:08,360 Speaker 1: point you brought up, Nold, that I thought was very 83 00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:11,760 Speaker 1: interesting where I can't remember whether this was on air 84 00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:14,960 Speaker 1: of whether we were just hanging out after work, but 85 00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:18,200 Speaker 1: you said you said to me, like, Ben, you notice 86 00:05:18,600 --> 00:05:22,280 Speaker 1: that we're always very careful not to stereotype people were 87 00:05:22,279 --> 00:05:27,280 Speaker 1: do unfair caricatures, except for Italian people and apparently Australians. 88 00:05:27,480 --> 00:05:29,159 Speaker 1: We got an email where people were like, hey, I 89 00:05:29,200 --> 00:05:31,080 Speaker 1: really like the show, but all you ever do talk 90 00:05:31,240 --> 00:05:33,520 Speaker 1: we would talk about about my home country is bad 91 00:05:33,560 --> 00:05:38,120 Speaker 1: Australian accents and Genitalia references. I believe little Australia. But 92 00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:41,080 Speaker 1: that's that's neither here nor there um. But yeah, we 93 00:05:41,120 --> 00:05:43,440 Speaker 1: do try our best to being to be thoughtful and 94 00:05:43,560 --> 00:05:46,599 Speaker 1: uh in courteous. So if there is anything that sounds 95 00:05:46,640 --> 00:05:51,800 Speaker 1: like a stereotypical or Italian accent or caricature where thereof 96 00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:55,120 Speaker 1: it is simply our bad pronunciation and feel pretty gell 97 00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:58,080 Speaker 1: at us. So. The Satellah Dick Constantina is one of 98 00:05:58,080 --> 00:06:01,760 Speaker 1: the largest rooms in the Vatican and at this point 99 00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:05,880 Speaker 1: in time it depicts um kind of Fresco paintings of 100 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:11,960 Speaker 1: the first Roman emperor to convert Christianity, constantine Um, and 101 00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:15,520 Speaker 1: it is believed by some, though I don't I have 102 00:06:15,520 --> 00:06:18,240 Speaker 1: not found any equivocal and equivocal evidence for this that 103 00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:23,840 Speaker 1: those were painted on top of some rather selaceous uh 104 00:06:23,960 --> 00:06:29,479 Speaker 1: let's call it Renaissance pin up type type paintings, right right. Yeah, 105 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:35,640 Speaker 1: The way this story goes is that once upon a time, uh, 106 00:06:35,839 --> 00:06:40,159 Speaker 1: there were a series of there were there were a 107 00:06:40,160 --> 00:06:46,440 Speaker 1: series of very explicit paintings of lovers historical figures throughout history, 108 00:06:46,720 --> 00:06:53,880 Speaker 1: in explicit, explicit uh romantic positions. Yeah, and I mean 109 00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:57,560 Speaker 1: more so than just depictions, like they were almost intended 110 00:06:57,600 --> 00:06:59,400 Speaker 1: to be like a guide book, sort of like the 111 00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:02,479 Speaker 1: Commis or something like that. And I think there were 112 00:07:02,560 --> 00:07:05,000 Speaker 1: how many of them? Were there been sixteen? Yes, there 113 00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:09,000 Speaker 1: were six sixteen for the sixteenth century. That's totally why 114 00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:11,960 Speaker 1: they did that. And um, we'll get to this in 115 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:16,120 Speaker 1: a little bit. But Raphael was one of the most 116 00:07:16,240 --> 00:07:19,240 Speaker 1: well renowned artists of the time and adorned many a 117 00:07:19,320 --> 00:07:23,280 Speaker 1: room in the Vatican with his incredibly elaborate what would 118 00:07:23,280 --> 00:07:26,320 Speaker 1: you call the style of Raphael ben uh. He was 119 00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:29,680 Speaker 1: the he's considered the architect of the High Renaissance. Full 120 00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:34,160 Speaker 1: name rafael O Sonzio da Urbino, and he was born 121 00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:37,040 Speaker 1: in fourteen eighty three, passed away at the age of 122 00:07:37,080 --> 00:07:41,240 Speaker 1: thirty seven in fifteen twenty, allegedly after a night of 123 00:07:41,280 --> 00:07:45,240 Speaker 1: wild passion. Wild passion. Yeah, all signs point to Rafael 124 00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:48,000 Speaker 1: being a bit of a of a horny boy and 125 00:07:48,440 --> 00:07:52,120 Speaker 1: keeping company with some others of that ilk um. There 126 00:07:52,160 --> 00:07:55,760 Speaker 1: was sort of a cabal of these sort of letchy 127 00:07:55,960 --> 00:07:59,360 Speaker 1: older men that kicked it in this particular palazzo that 128 00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:02,400 Speaker 1: belonged to a man who was a patron of the 129 00:08:02,520 --> 00:08:07,120 Speaker 1: arts by the name of Augustine. No cheege cheese. Is 130 00:08:07,160 --> 00:08:09,720 Speaker 1: it like gelie chee cheegye. I'm gonna do a hard 131 00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:11,600 Speaker 1: g What do you think? I think it was a 132 00:08:11,720 --> 00:08:14,560 Speaker 1: very smart move to put both of those pronunciations out 133 00:08:14,600 --> 00:08:16,440 Speaker 1: there so yell at me about the wrong one and 134 00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:19,680 Speaker 1: praised me for the correct I it is. It's going 135 00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:21,560 Speaker 1: to be okay, do you think so? I think it'll 136 00:08:21,560 --> 00:08:23,920 Speaker 1: be okay? Dude. The the ire of the Internet never 137 00:08:23,960 --> 00:08:26,840 Speaker 1: ceases to terrify me. Well, it's spelled c h I 138 00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:29,960 Speaker 1: g I c h I. Banker to the Vatican, Banker 139 00:08:30,200 --> 00:08:33,600 Speaker 1: to the Vatican, like iron bank kind of dude, right serious, 140 00:08:33,720 --> 00:08:36,840 Speaker 1: like like power behind the purse to the Vatican, one 141 00:08:36,840 --> 00:08:39,920 Speaker 1: of the most powerful institutions in the world. And he 142 00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:42,360 Speaker 1: would have Uh, I don't know, I've I've heard them 143 00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:46,520 Speaker 1: referred to as wild garden parties. Um. And he owned 144 00:08:46,559 --> 00:08:49,800 Speaker 1: a palatial estate by the Tiber River and had a 145 00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:55,400 Speaker 1: vast collection of erotic art, including a particularly lewed statue 146 00:08:55,520 --> 00:09:01,320 Speaker 1: of uh Greek god and fellow horny boy Pan or Puck. Right, 147 00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:03,920 Speaker 1: likely anatomically correct, I think, is what we're getting at. 148 00:09:04,160 --> 00:09:10,559 Speaker 1: Despite his day job, his private life was extraordinarily hedonistic, 149 00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:12,920 Speaker 1: there's a fair way to say this. And he and 150 00:09:12,920 --> 00:09:15,840 Speaker 1: his pals were considered libertarian, but not the way we 151 00:09:15,880 --> 00:09:18,440 Speaker 1: think of libertarianism today, in terse of you know, being 152 00:09:18,720 --> 00:09:24,360 Speaker 1: pro weed and anti anti government in any sense. Right, yeah, yeah, 153 00:09:24,559 --> 00:09:28,800 Speaker 1: this means that they were, in contrast to the official 154 00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:32,920 Speaker 1: doctrine or public view of the Catholic Church. They were 155 00:09:33,920 --> 00:09:38,160 Speaker 1: very now let's say open, right, they are at this 156 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:44,319 Speaker 1: point kind of polyamorous swingers. They're yeah, they're seeking all this. Uh, 157 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:48,320 Speaker 1: They're they're seeking the carnal pleasures. Uh. It's similar to 158 00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:52,320 Speaker 1: Hugh Hefner's playboy mansion. This is this is a surprisingly 159 00:09:52,360 --> 00:09:55,120 Speaker 1: apt comparison. They likely had a grotto in this particular 160 00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:58,040 Speaker 1: state as well. I would imagine, Yes, Uh, and they 161 00:09:58,120 --> 00:10:01,640 Speaker 1: had a lot of guests uh the upper echelons of 162 00:10:01,679 --> 00:10:04,079 Speaker 1: society at the time. One regular guest was a writer 163 00:10:04,440 --> 00:10:09,240 Speaker 1: named Pietro Aretino, and he described the erotic art in 164 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:13,240 Speaker 1: this famous villa by saying, why shouldn't the I see 165 00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:17,079 Speaker 1: what delights it most? Exactly? Because the Vatican was infamous 166 00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:21,320 Speaker 1: for covering up nude sculptures, any kind of depiction of 167 00:10:21,360 --> 00:10:24,240 Speaker 1: the male nude form or female new form, they would 168 00:10:24,360 --> 00:10:27,240 Speaker 1: require the artist to drape it like um, I believe 169 00:10:27,320 --> 00:10:30,720 Speaker 1: Michelangelo's one of his famous some of his famous nudes 170 00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:33,480 Speaker 1: were required to be added onto with additional material to 171 00:10:33,800 --> 00:10:36,280 Speaker 1: cover them up, kind of like the Statue of Liberty 172 00:10:36,320 --> 00:10:40,599 Speaker 1: originally had the exactly that's right, I totally forgot it, 173 00:10:41,080 --> 00:10:42,719 Speaker 1: or like the famous fig leaves of that dam and 174 00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:46,600 Speaker 1: even on that's totally but I think that Artino very 175 00:10:46,679 --> 00:10:49,800 Speaker 1: accurately summed up what this whole kind of cabal of dudes, 176 00:10:50,040 --> 00:10:54,280 Speaker 1: with their whole like kind of therapy of life, kind 177 00:10:54,280 --> 00:10:57,120 Speaker 1: of Fidelio kind of vibe, was all about, why shouldn't 178 00:10:57,160 --> 00:11:04,480 Speaker 1: the I see what delights him most exactly? So in 179 00:11:04,679 --> 00:11:09,239 Speaker 1: his bedroom, the banker Cheegy had a fresco of Alexander 180 00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:13,559 Speaker 1: the Great in a in a sexually explicit position with 181 00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:18,480 Speaker 1: his wife Roxanne and Rafael himself. Like Rafael is famous 182 00:11:18,520 --> 00:11:22,480 Speaker 1: at this time, he has a team of people working 183 00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:25,040 Speaker 1: under him. So it's a big deal that he himself 184 00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:28,920 Speaker 1: paints some of the most famous frescoes in the villa. 185 00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:34,520 Speaker 1: But according to his biographer, an author named A. V. Sarry, 186 00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:40,480 Speaker 1: Raphael himself uh couldn't work properly in this environment because 187 00:11:40,840 --> 00:11:45,160 Speaker 1: uh the sorry says the guy had a sex addiction. Uh. 188 00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:48,200 Speaker 1: So Raphael's lover at the time had to be given 189 00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:52,439 Speaker 1: a bedroom in the in the location, so he would 190 00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:55,480 Speaker 1: paint and then go full around and then go back 191 00:11:55,480 --> 00:11:59,520 Speaker 1: and paint, rinse and repeat. Uh. And this, according again 192 00:11:59,559 --> 00:12:02,520 Speaker 1: to his biographer, is what is what actually, this is 193 00:12:02,559 --> 00:12:04,559 Speaker 1: the situation that led to his death at the early 194 00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:09,959 Speaker 1: age of thirty seven. And he left. When he passed away, 195 00:12:10,400 --> 00:12:14,079 Speaker 1: he left his his business, his work to his most 196 00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:18,840 Speaker 1: talented assistant, a guy named Giulio Romano or Gulio Romano. 197 00:12:18,960 --> 00:12:20,560 Speaker 1: Let's think about him the way we might think of 198 00:12:20,559 --> 00:12:23,200 Speaker 1: a modern street artist today. Right, A lot of these 199 00:12:23,240 --> 00:12:26,760 Speaker 1: folks are known as the you know, power behind the throne, 200 00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:29,160 Speaker 1: and like the style guide of like this, you know, 201 00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:32,280 Speaker 1: everything associated with this person's brand. But everyone from like 202 00:12:32,280 --> 00:12:35,079 Speaker 1: a shepherd ferry to likely a banks or whatever has 203 00:12:35,120 --> 00:12:37,400 Speaker 1: like teams of people working with them to help them 204 00:12:37,400 --> 00:12:39,880 Speaker 1: recreate their work and like do it in different locations, 205 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:43,400 Speaker 1: especially when it comes to like reproducible stuff. And so 206 00:12:43,559 --> 00:12:46,040 Speaker 1: this assistant was kind of his right hand man and 207 00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:48,679 Speaker 1: could literally take the baton and kind of like keep 208 00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:52,440 Speaker 1: the business going after his uh, you know what would 209 00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:56,520 Speaker 1: you call it his master? Now his boss, I guess 210 00:12:56,520 --> 00:13:00,440 Speaker 1: his boss. Yeah, after his mentor after he uh you know, 211 00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:04,560 Speaker 1: I had a very erotic death, very erotic death the 212 00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:08,760 Speaker 1: story of Rafael. Yes, and so now now this guy 213 00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:13,839 Speaker 1: is the successor. Here, Romano is in charge of this team. 214 00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:17,240 Speaker 1: He has inherited this. One of the connections he inherits 215 00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:22,960 Speaker 1: is a printmaker named Mark Cantonio Ramondi. I want to backtrack, 216 00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:25,160 Speaker 1: You're just slightly not backtrack really, but this is where 217 00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:27,760 Speaker 1: the story diverges a little bit. I've seen a couple 218 00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:32,880 Speaker 1: of spots that say, okay, he was hired to paint 219 00:13:33,160 --> 00:13:37,000 Speaker 1: that Constantine room, which was considered one of the Raphael 220 00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:40,000 Speaker 1: rooms in the Vatican because Rafael had done many of them. 221 00:13:40,040 --> 00:13:43,319 Speaker 1: But then this room was left uncompleted, uh when he 222 00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:45,880 Speaker 1: had passed away, So his assistant was supposed to go 223 00:13:45,920 --> 00:13:49,040 Speaker 1: in there and finish it. I've seen that. And then, um, 224 00:13:49,080 --> 00:13:51,360 Speaker 1: I know Pope Leo the tenth was going to make 225 00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:54,880 Speaker 1: Rafael like an honorary high Church officials because of all 226 00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:57,160 Speaker 1: his work that he had done. It's really funny considering 227 00:13:57,200 --> 00:14:00,360 Speaker 1: that he was a known sex addict and kind of letch. 228 00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:02,960 Speaker 1: But that didn't come to fruition because he of course 229 00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:08,000 Speaker 1: passed away. But whoever employed his assistant to supposedly paint 230 00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:11,959 Speaker 1: this room, Um, the assistant got irritated at him, legend says, 231 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:15,480 Speaker 1: and he instead decided to paint these sixteen erotic scenes 232 00:14:15,559 --> 00:14:19,040 Speaker 1: on these panels. That's one version of the story. Yeah, 233 00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:21,600 Speaker 1: and there are a couple of different versions. So before 234 00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:24,440 Speaker 1: raw Fael's death, just just to rewind in time a 235 00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:27,440 Speaker 1: bit in fifteen sixty and a guy named Cardinal Bibiana 236 00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:32,800 Speaker 1: commissions Rafael to decorate his personal bathroom with these nude 237 00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:38,680 Speaker 1: nymphs bathing while uh, very anatomically correct satyrs are spying 238 00:14:38,760 --> 00:14:43,280 Speaker 1: on them. And this only flies because the cardinals bathroom 239 00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:48,840 Speaker 1: is considered a private place, right so these various works 240 00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:52,880 Speaker 1: of art, explicit sexual art, were never meant to be 241 00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:56,200 Speaker 1: a matter of public discussion or even public knowledge, right, 242 00:14:56,720 --> 00:14:58,840 Speaker 1: uh it goes. Is the same way with the erotic 243 00:14:58,880 --> 00:15:02,640 Speaker 1: frescoes on the wall alls of the solid Diconstantino. Whether 244 00:15:02,680 --> 00:15:05,480 Speaker 1: they were commissioned or drawn out of spite, right, that's 245 00:15:05,520 --> 00:15:07,680 Speaker 1: the that's the big divergence on the story. They were 246 00:15:07,680 --> 00:15:11,960 Speaker 1: either commissioned on purpose or drawn as kind of a troll. Well, 247 00:15:12,040 --> 00:15:14,280 Speaker 1: it is a divergence of the story. But then I've 248 00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:16,200 Speaker 1: also seen a version of the story where the Vatican 249 00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:19,160 Speaker 1: doesn't come into it at all, like where this guy 250 00:15:19,520 --> 00:15:22,240 Speaker 1: just drew these himself and then had them and then 251 00:15:22,280 --> 00:15:25,720 Speaker 1: had had them maker, the printmaker dismate, disseminate them. Because 252 00:15:25,720 --> 00:15:27,720 Speaker 1: that's where we get into more of the idea of 253 00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:31,280 Speaker 1: this thing, as this collection of nudes, as being the 254 00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:38,280 Speaker 1: first form of widely circulated pornography, right the sixteen postures 255 00:15:38,640 --> 00:15:41,520 Speaker 1: as they came to be known. So so the printer 256 00:15:42,280 --> 00:15:49,400 Speaker 1: Marcantonio Rimondi engraves and prints these explicit illustrations of sex 257 00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:54,360 Speaker 1: acts drawn by Romano, and he publishes this in fifty 258 00:15:54,440 --> 00:15:59,000 Speaker 1: four under the title I Moody, which translates as the positions. 259 00:15:59,800 --> 00:16:03,160 Speaker 1: And this is not erotic cu this is not you know, 260 00:16:03,320 --> 00:16:06,880 Speaker 1: some sort of sensitive exploration of the human esthetic visually. 261 00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:10,440 Speaker 1: This is pornography. Yeah, dude, I'm looking at him right now. 262 00:16:10,480 --> 00:16:14,200 Speaker 1: They are They're really They're in SFW. They really really are. 263 00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:15,840 Speaker 1: If you want to get a look at them, if 264 00:16:15,840 --> 00:16:17,960 Speaker 1: you're really interested, you can go there's an article on 265 00:16:18,080 --> 00:16:20,840 Speaker 1: Dangerous Minds dot net that has all of them. Actually 266 00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:23,160 Speaker 1: that's not true, that we'll get to this. They ultimately 267 00:16:23,160 --> 00:16:25,640 Speaker 1: are lost to time, but the idea of what they 268 00:16:25,640 --> 00:16:28,800 Speaker 1: are were was recreated because it created like a whole 269 00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:31,520 Speaker 1: new genre of stuff, you know, which is like, let's 270 00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:34,320 Speaker 1: depict sex x and as frank away as humanly possible, 271 00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:37,760 Speaker 1: often with satyrs and mythical creatures as well, so that 272 00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:39,400 Speaker 1: you're gonna see a lot of that stuff. So if 273 00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:41,720 Speaker 1: you want to catch that yourself, it is n SFWS. 274 00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:43,600 Speaker 1: Ben said, you can go to dangerous mind dot net 275 00:16:43,720 --> 00:16:46,280 Speaker 1: and the headline is an eighteenth century guide to sex position. 276 00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:48,120 Speaker 1: So you can just search for that right there. Great site. 277 00:16:48,280 --> 00:16:51,040 Speaker 1: And I'm sure many people have just probably run into 278 00:16:51,080 --> 00:16:54,800 Speaker 1: that earlier. Why wouldn't you have? Why would you not? So? 279 00:16:54,880 --> 00:16:57,480 Speaker 1: According let's go back to this divergence in the story. 280 00:16:57,520 --> 00:17:00,480 Speaker 1: According to Lynn Loner, who is an art story and 281 00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:05,640 Speaker 1: focusing on the Renaissance in Italy, in fifty three, Giulio 282 00:17:05,840 --> 00:17:09,200 Speaker 1: began the decoration of the solid de Konstantino and the Vatican, 283 00:17:09,840 --> 00:17:13,480 Speaker 1: and the pope at the time, Clement the seventh, was 284 00:17:13,640 --> 00:17:17,480 Speaker 1: tardy in paying the bill, and hence the beef, and 285 00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:20,720 Speaker 1: hence the beef, and so then he says, all right, 286 00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:23,120 Speaker 1: you know what, I'll keep working, but I'm gonna draw 287 00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:27,119 Speaker 1: these sixteen postures. That doesn't make sense. That would be 288 00:17:27,160 --> 00:17:29,280 Speaker 1: a real risk to do that when don't you think 289 00:17:29,560 --> 00:17:31,720 Speaker 1: do you think he felt like totally above the law 290 00:17:31,760 --> 00:17:35,840 Speaker 1: that he could like essentially graffiti this guy's walls with 291 00:17:36,520 --> 00:17:39,480 Speaker 1: what would be considered filth, you know, because let's not 292 00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:42,840 Speaker 1: forget the collected versions of these we're jumping around time 293 00:17:42,840 --> 00:17:47,160 Speaker 1: a little bit. Ultimately end up getting the printer whose 294 00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:48,960 Speaker 1: name I'm is escaping me now Ben, who's the printer 295 00:17:50,119 --> 00:17:53,880 Speaker 1: Raymond getting him thrown in jail by the pope. So 296 00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:58,399 Speaker 1: the idea of maybe some of these nudes existing behind 297 00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:01,240 Speaker 1: closed doors, like you said, Ben and private um, maybe 298 00:18:01,240 --> 00:18:04,399 Speaker 1: wouldn't have caused the pope to totally go full ham 299 00:18:04,440 --> 00:18:06,280 Speaker 1: on it and trying to, you know, censor it out. 300 00:18:06,520 --> 00:18:10,399 Speaker 1: But once it starts being disseminated, you now in printed form. 301 00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:13,840 Speaker 1: It it's it's um. It's like something that has to 302 00:18:13,840 --> 00:18:16,840 Speaker 1: be squashed. Right. Let's talk a little bit about Pope 303 00:18:16,880 --> 00:18:20,840 Speaker 1: Clement the seventh as well. He's a real peach. So 304 00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:25,560 Speaker 1: he was pope from three to fifteen thirty four. Uh. 305 00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:30,120 Speaker 1: He was known for being a bit of a flip flopper. 306 00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:33,800 Speaker 1: He didn't really keep his word. He would make and 307 00:18:34,119 --> 00:18:37,680 Speaker 1: break alliances with France, Spain, and Germany over the course 308 00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:43,040 Speaker 1: of his papacy. He was inclined to changing his political 309 00:18:43,119 --> 00:18:46,520 Speaker 1: views to match those of whoever was the most powerful 310 00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:49,679 Speaker 1: and wealthy at the time, and as a result, his 311 00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:52,840 Speaker 1: critics said that he was not to be trusted. So 312 00:18:52,920 --> 00:18:56,120 Speaker 1: he was the sort of he, at least from what 313 00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:58,520 Speaker 1: we can tell historically, he was the sort of person 314 00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:01,680 Speaker 1: who would attempt to swindle people out of money, which 315 00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:05,200 Speaker 1: is where where this whole thing begins. If you, if 316 00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:09,000 Speaker 1: you trust the historians who say that the postures arrive 317 00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:12,640 Speaker 1: out of spite. When the sixteen Postures are published, as 318 00:19:12,680 --> 00:19:15,560 Speaker 1: you said, Ramondi is thrown in jail by Clement the 319 00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:20,200 Speaker 1: seventh and because the printmaker has some powerful friends, he 320 00:19:20,359 --> 00:19:24,680 Speaker 1: is eventually released. But you can't screw the lid back 321 00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:27,800 Speaker 1: on Pandora's jar here now, and instead that not only 322 00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:29,920 Speaker 1: do they not screw the lid back on Pandora's jar, 323 00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:33,199 Speaker 1: they like bespoke the jar even further. Because you remember 324 00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:35,959 Speaker 1: that guy ar and Tino we talked about, who had 325 00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:38,520 Speaker 1: that fantastic quote about give the eyes what they want 326 00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:41,720 Speaker 1: or whatever. Um, he really wanted to double down and 327 00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:46,840 Speaker 1: lean into that because he uh composed sixteen absolutely filthy, 328 00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:51,640 Speaker 1: raunchy sonnets that described each of the of the scenes 329 00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:57,000 Speaker 1: in poetically graphic detail. Uh. And in a an introduction 330 00:19:57,440 --> 00:20:00,359 Speaker 1: to this book, the new addition the just sort of 331 00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:04,280 Speaker 1: an incantation to the reader, an invocation, yes, exactly, invocation 332 00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:08,280 Speaker 1: of the muses of of of raunchiness. H quote, come 333 00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:14,679 Speaker 1: view this, you who liked to okay without being disturbed 334 00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:17,639 Speaker 1: in that sweet enterprise, I would have added a second suite. 335 00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:21,160 Speaker 1: I would have been that sweet sweet enterprise. Yeah. Well, 336 00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:26,719 Speaker 1: we have the benefit of retrospect editorialism. So this is 337 00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:32,200 Speaker 1: a blockbuster, absolute smash, no pun intended. Yeah, yeah, it's 338 00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:37,159 Speaker 1: uh It's strange because Romano, the guy who was made 339 00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:42,080 Speaker 1: these images, has already absconded from Rome. He is a 340 00:20:42,119 --> 00:20:47,399 Speaker 1: court artist in Mantua and RAYMONDI you know, before he 341 00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:50,600 Speaker 1: was released, he was stuck in prisoned by himself, and 342 00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:54,520 Speaker 1: the church attempted to seize and destroy all copies of 343 00:20:54,520 --> 00:20:56,880 Speaker 1: the book. They didn't want that getting out. The Church 344 00:20:56,960 --> 00:21:01,440 Speaker 1: is really good at eradicating unflattering literature, sure are, yeah, 345 00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:06,719 Speaker 1: But in fifteen seven Imodi was reissued with those licentious 346 00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:11,240 Speaker 1: poems we mentioned earlier, and it became a blockbuster. It 347 00:21:11,359 --> 00:21:16,240 Speaker 1: was selling out across Europe, and the book had many names. 348 00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:19,960 Speaker 1: It was called Imody, the posture, the fashion. It's also 349 00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:24,600 Speaker 1: known as Tarantino's Postures, the sixteen Pleasures, or the omnibus 350 00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:31,240 Speaker 1: venerischimatibus nias huh as Latin, what does schematibus man? It 351 00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:33,320 Speaker 1: must mean some form of position. In fact, when I 352 00:21:33,359 --> 00:21:34,959 Speaker 1: google the word, the first thing that comes up as 353 00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:39,320 Speaker 1: emodi again, so that obviously just refers to the function 354 00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:45,600 Speaker 1: and practice of moving the limbs around in particular arrays. Right, yeah, exactly. 355 00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:49,680 Speaker 1: So this did more than just make money and get 356 00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:51,800 Speaker 1: people thrown in jail. Though it was one of those 357 00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:55,520 Speaker 1: rare works of erotica, or let's be honest, pornography that 358 00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:58,840 Speaker 1: jumped from niche to mainstream. You know what I mean. 359 00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:03,080 Speaker 1: It's sort of like, in a way, it's similar to 360 00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:05,679 Speaker 1: fifty Shades of Gray. Yeah, that's true. And there's a 361 00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:09,800 Speaker 1: really great article from Atlas Obscura called Europe's first pornographic 362 00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:13,440 Speaker 1: blockbuster was made in the Vatican that makes that very connection. 363 00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:17,160 Speaker 1: Or something like Deep Throat, which was a pornographic film 364 00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:19,920 Speaker 1: that became pretty widely disseminated and almost like tongue in 365 00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:25,080 Speaker 1: cheeckenly Uh talked about in you know, polite social circles, 366 00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:30,359 Speaker 1: right right, people would performatively clutch their peoples and hide 367 00:22:30,359 --> 00:22:33,440 Speaker 1: their faces gibbling. Yeah, so you refer to it as 368 00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:35,119 Speaker 1: a joke, you know what I mean, to be a 369 00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:38,919 Speaker 1: little bit edgy in conversation. Some people will even argue 370 00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:43,200 Speaker 1: that William Shakespeare himself snuck a reference to this book 371 00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:47,360 Speaker 1: in Uh in a Winter's Tale when he talks about 372 00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:52,760 Speaker 1: that rare Italian master Julio Romano. There was a sixteenth 373 00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:56,399 Speaker 1: century Italian phrase book that was aimed at English tourists, 374 00:22:56,800 --> 00:23:01,080 Speaker 1: and it taught them how to ask in Italian for 375 00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:07,680 Speaker 1: the works of Arantino at bookstores to must dude. But alas, 376 00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:10,080 Speaker 1: I guess I'm gonna say, Alas, I mean, thankfully we 377 00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:12,200 Speaker 1: have these these lovely recreations that you can see on 378 00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:15,600 Speaker 1: the dangerous mind side. But the book itself, and as 379 00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:18,160 Speaker 1: far as I know, the text of the Sonnets are 380 00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:21,560 Speaker 1: pretty much worked successfully eradicated by the Vatican, and the 381 00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:25,000 Speaker 1: original the original frescoes as well. If you'd like to 382 00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:28,520 Speaker 1: believe that they're buried underneath those uh those you know, 383 00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:31,520 Speaker 1: paintings of Constantine, the Life of Constantine. You know, that's 384 00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:34,280 Speaker 1: possibly one way you could uncover that mystery, if you 385 00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:35,920 Speaker 1: want to go in there and start scraping away the 386 00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:39,919 Speaker 1: paint not recommending that. Wait wait, wait, I'll recogn serious 387 00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:41,439 Speaker 1: business due they will throw you in some sort of 388 00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:46,879 Speaker 1: like dungeon. Listen to me, carefully, grad students, art historians. 389 00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:50,240 Speaker 1: I my spider sense tells me there might be a 390 00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:53,399 Speaker 1: grant in here, maybe even a dissertation. Surely there's a 391 00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:55,640 Speaker 1: way you could X ray them or something and penetrate 392 00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:59,359 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not sure exactly how technology works. Really, 393 00:23:59,359 --> 00:24:02,480 Speaker 1: that's not what kind show this is. But but it's 394 00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:05,560 Speaker 1: true that there were illegal or bootleg copies of IMODI 395 00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:09,560 Speaker 1: or things purporting to be IMODI that were printed for 396 00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:13,399 Speaker 1: over a century afterwards, well into the sixt hundreds. There's 397 00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:17,320 Speaker 1: no way to know how many works were printed, but 398 00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:21,640 Speaker 1: because churches and governments cooperated to hunt down and destroy 399 00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:27,399 Speaker 1: the copies, at least with as much enthusiasm as people 400 00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:30,840 Speaker 1: sought to collect and print them. We don't have a 401 00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:36,840 Speaker 1: record of the actual sixteen postures that were depicted. Well, 402 00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:38,400 Speaker 1: there's a few. We don't have all a few little 403 00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:46,120 Speaker 1: scrappys that remain in the collection of the British Museum. 404 00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:48,680 Speaker 1: We do have the sudence I found some and off 405 00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:53,480 Speaker 1: the air it sent these two as well. Uh there. 406 00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:56,800 Speaker 1: You know, you can blame a little bit on the translation. 407 00:24:56,880 --> 00:25:01,840 Speaker 1: But they're pretty. They're pretty body. Let's like Canterbury Tales 408 00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:12,080 Speaker 1: body or like. So okay, so we'll I'll read one, okay, 409 00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:14,720 Speaker 1: and we'll we'll need to beat this. So Paul, I'm 410 00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:18,080 Speaker 1: gonna make eye contact with you. Be ready for this. 411 00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:22,119 Speaker 1: That's some intense eye contact right there. I moved here. Yeah, okay, 412 00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:26,000 Speaker 1: here we go. Stick your finger up my old man. 413 00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:30,080 Speaker 1: Thrust caso in a little at a time, Lift up 414 00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:33,600 Speaker 1: my leg maneuver well, now pound with all inhibitions gone. 415 00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:36,320 Speaker 1: Oh I got bad. It's worse. I believe this is 416 00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:39,480 Speaker 1: a tastier feast than eating garlic bread before a fire. 417 00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:43,320 Speaker 1: It goes on. Okay, wow, I get what you were expecting. No, 418 00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:45,840 Speaker 1: I don't see. When you start bringing the food metaphors 419 00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:48,639 Speaker 1: in there, that's when it really turns turns me, dude, 420 00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:50,520 Speaker 1: And we should talk about this. Can we talk about this? 421 00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:54,200 Speaker 1: We can totally not read any of those effort again. Um, yeah, 422 00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:59,719 Speaker 1: I took one for the team. God, Oh my good heavens. Okay, So, 423 00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:05,200 Speaker 1: speaking of pearl clutching, I'm I'm being I'm i am 424 00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:07,560 Speaker 1: very much blushing. Listen that we gotta we gotta get 425 00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:09,480 Speaker 1: this out of the way. Before we went on the air, 426 00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:12,320 Speaker 1: we were deciding whether or not to like, whether to 427 00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:16,360 Speaker 1: use the word pornography or porn and you Ben mentioned 428 00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:20,320 Speaker 1: that you always felt the word porn was more salacious nowadays, 429 00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:21,639 Speaker 1: and we were trying to figure out why that was. 430 00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:24,240 Speaker 1: I don't know why. Yeah, it must it must entirely 431 00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:28,680 Speaker 1: be a subjective thing. I guess. Um, pornography at least 432 00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:32,639 Speaker 1: sounds a little more academic, I guess. And Also, there's 433 00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:36,440 Speaker 1: something that puts me ill at ease when people describe 434 00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:40,160 Speaker 1: non sexual things as porn, like when people say, oh, 435 00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:43,720 Speaker 1: food porn, or even when you know, I saw somebody 436 00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:47,560 Speaker 1: who was I met someone's dog. I love dogs, and 437 00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:50,719 Speaker 1: uh I was. I was rubbing the dog's belly and 438 00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:54,320 Speaker 1: the dog's owner says, oh, yeah, she's she's like such 439 00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:56,560 Speaker 1: a slept for belly rubs, and that was really gross 440 00:26:56,560 --> 00:26:58,800 Speaker 1: to me. We're just scratching this dog. Well, you know, 441 00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:00,920 Speaker 1: I mean, people are taking that word back, but I 442 00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:03,360 Speaker 1: think that that's a good point. I I really am 443 00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:05,320 Speaker 1: with you on the food stuff. Like, I don't think 444 00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:07,240 Speaker 1: either one of us like it when someone describes a 445 00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:11,840 Speaker 1: bite of cake as orgasmic or or sumptuous. It just 446 00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:13,879 Speaker 1: didn't know. It turns me, it turns, it turns my 447 00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:17,520 Speaker 1: exquisite is fine, that's not exit. I was just feeling 448 00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:19,480 Speaker 1: the riff. Yeah, no, it's true. But I think we've 449 00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:20,800 Speaker 1: got to the bottom of it. I think both of 450 00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:22,800 Speaker 1: us feel the same way. But I think we used 451 00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:25,480 Speaker 1: a combination of porn and pornography in this episode because 452 00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:27,600 Speaker 1: it was you know, it's about all the all the 453 00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:33,399 Speaker 1: mini shades, fifty shades of of renaissance, uh erotica. And 454 00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:35,679 Speaker 1: that's also I think why that Sonnet really did it 455 00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:37,520 Speaker 1: for me, not in a good way, because once you 456 00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:39,880 Speaker 1: started bringing garlic bread into the equation, I'm like, leave 457 00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:45,400 Speaker 1: garlic bread out of uh. It's it's funny because this 458 00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:49,520 Speaker 1: is UH sort of producer replise literal first day. We 459 00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:52,879 Speaker 1: did warn her, we do, we try to. We're not 460 00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:55,840 Speaker 1: a naughty show. We're not. We are we are if 461 00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:58,560 Speaker 1: we are nothing if not wholesome. We are very old general. 462 00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:01,800 Speaker 1: But this is this is fascinating because I think a 463 00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:04,639 Speaker 1: lot of I think a lot of people who enjoy 464 00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:07,359 Speaker 1: reading about the history of the Catholic Church. I think 465 00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:11,560 Speaker 1: a lot of us are familiar with the scandalous popes 466 00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:16,880 Speaker 1: of years gone by, but we're maybe not as um 467 00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:21,879 Speaker 1: as aware of the the pornography that that the Catholic 468 00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:27,240 Speaker 1: Church unwittingly created, unleashed on the world. That's it. That's 469 00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:28,760 Speaker 1: the thing though, right, I mean, it's sort of like 470 00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:31,480 Speaker 1: the idea of uh, I don't know, prostitution or sex 471 00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:33,760 Speaker 1: work being the oldest profession. I don't know. That's sort 472 00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:35,880 Speaker 1: of a misnomer probably, but it makes sense because it's 473 00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:38,960 Speaker 1: a thing that people in some form or fashion need. 474 00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:41,400 Speaker 1: It's like a gap people need filled. Well that's very 475 00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:44,440 Speaker 1: very graphic sounding. Um, but in terms of like there's artists, 476 00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:46,960 Speaker 1: why wouldn't artists do this, It's sort of I wonder 477 00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:49,520 Speaker 1: if they didn't even realize, like the idea that that 478 00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:52,360 Speaker 1: this can be a stand in for actual, you know, sex, 479 00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:57,840 Speaker 1: because someone had to invent the idea of pornography, rightly, 480 00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:01,680 Speaker 1: I think it's parallel thinking. I mean fairly certain many 481 00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:06,840 Speaker 1: lonely people invented the idea of pornigraphy, erotic cave painting 482 00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:13,120 Speaker 1: and sculptures, you know, the venus figures, that's right, I 483 00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:16,400 Speaker 1: I you know, I've got to admit I'm usually laser 484 00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:19,400 Speaker 1: focused when we're exploring these fascinating stories and all, but 485 00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:23,160 Speaker 1: I still have this pdf up and it is startling. Yeah, 486 00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:26,600 Speaker 1: and it is a it is a splash of cold water. Really. 487 00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:30,720 Speaker 1: So you can find you can find this book. You 488 00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:36,400 Speaker 1: can find translations of it available on Amazon. Again, again 489 00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:41,520 Speaker 1: categorically emphatically not safe for work. But what a strange, 490 00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:45,760 Speaker 1: amazing story and what a bizarre effect this had on 491 00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:47,720 Speaker 1: the world. Were okay though, right we looked at it 492 00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:51,360 Speaker 1: at work. Yeah, job, it is it is literally our job. 493 00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:54,400 Speaker 1: We had a reason for. If I t comes at us, 494 00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:58,400 Speaker 1: we can say we were doing this for an episode 495 00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:00,800 Speaker 1: at least I was I don't want to. I mean, 496 00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:03,200 Speaker 1: I'm I'm I'm along for the right before I'm hanging 497 00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:08,600 Speaker 1: onto your coat tails, story going? We are going home 498 00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:12,200 Speaker 1: or to the bar or something that's right. This concludes 499 00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:15,959 Speaker 1: today's episode, but not our show. We do hope you 500 00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:20,479 Speaker 1: enjoyed this, this strange journey we're in. Uh where in 501 00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:23,800 Speaker 1: both of us? Uh? Did take? Did take some off 502 00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:28,000 Speaker 1: air breaks? Laughing a bit? Because we're emotionally both Probably 503 00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:33,520 Speaker 1: what nine between us combined combined? That's a cumulative effect. 504 00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:37,920 Speaker 1: Are our powers combined? We are a nine year old boy? Great? Uh? 505 00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:40,840 Speaker 1: So we want to hear your stories too. What are 506 00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:46,080 Speaker 1: some of the weird scandalous tales of art in years 507 00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:48,120 Speaker 1: gone by? Did you end up with a copy of 508 00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:51,560 Speaker 1: the Commissuitra when you were fourteen? I did? You did? Sure? Did? 509 00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:54,600 Speaker 1: I saw one? But I never had my old copy. 510 00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:59,240 Speaker 1: I had it hidden under my mattress. That's fine, I'm 511 00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:01,160 Speaker 1: going with it. No, that's good. Good for you, man. 512 00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:03,800 Speaker 1: It feels kind of academic. It's academic, and it's also 513 00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:07,600 Speaker 1: personally liberating for me. There there you go, man, Thanks 514 00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:09,760 Speaker 1: for joining us for the show. Thanks as always to 515 00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:14,600 Speaker 1: our super producer Paul Mission Controlled Decade La Bouche Casey Pegram. 516 00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:18,400 Speaker 1: We'll be back very soon. It's true he's returning. Thanks 517 00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:23,760 Speaker 1: also to Christopher Haciotis, Thanks to our research associate Gabe. 518 00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:27,840 Speaker 1: Thanks to Alex Williams, who composed that nifty little riff 519 00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:29,800 Speaker 1: you here at the opening of every show. And by 520 00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:31,640 Speaker 1: the way, we promised to do this on a previous 521 00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:34,440 Speaker 1: episode but did not get to it. I just want 522 00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:37,600 Speaker 1: to point out that Alex's fantastic new show Ephemeral, is 523 00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:41,040 Speaker 1: live in the feed on any place you get your podcast, 524 00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:43,800 Speaker 1: and the episode he talked with us about concerning the 525 00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:46,280 Speaker 1: Call Your Brothers, we had said on the episode that 526 00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:48,400 Speaker 1: it wasn't coming out for another month or so. He 527 00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:50,760 Speaker 1: actually switched it up and it is now out in 528 00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:53,000 Speaker 1: the Ephemeral feed, So go catch that and get the 529 00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:57,240 Speaker 1: whole story of these weird kind of hermidy horder brothers, 530 00:31:57,520 --> 00:32:01,040 Speaker 1: good save, good save, well done, and well put. Because 531 00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:04,240 Speaker 1: we did. We did assure him, yeah, we'll do it, 532 00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:06,200 Speaker 1: We'll do it in a previous episode, but now we 533 00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:08,360 Speaker 1: have finally made good on it. Alex, if you were 534 00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:12,680 Speaker 1: listening every soon to be ardent fan of ephemeral, go 535 00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:15,720 Speaker 1: check it out. Do not hesitate. So we'll be back 536 00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:19,160 Speaker 1: very soon with a new ridiculous and hopefully a bit 537 00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:24,120 Speaker 1: less salacious episode into it. I was perfectly comfortable, except 538 00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:25,360 Speaker 1: when you said the thing about the old man and 539 00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:27,760 Speaker 1: the garlic bread. That really threw meant to me. Yeah, 540 00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:30,920 Speaker 1: like that's gonna stay with me. It really is. It's 541 00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:36,000 Speaker 1: a it's an image, that's for sure. You and I 542 00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:39,360 Speaker 1: have read the full things the rest of it. I 543 00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:41,320 Speaker 1: stopped there. Um, But if you want to share any 544 00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:44,000 Speaker 1: of this stuff with us, Comma Sutra, any of the poetry, 545 00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:45,560 Speaker 1: any of this kind of you know, what your whatever, 546 00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:48,000 Speaker 1: your sexual journey has been. Maybe that's too much. We 547 00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:49,760 Speaker 1: don't need all that, but you can do it either 548 00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:51,880 Speaker 1: by joining us on our Facebook group, which is called 549 00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:55,920 Speaker 1: Ridiculous Historians, or we have a really cool community of friends, 550 00:32:56,320 --> 00:32:58,960 Speaker 1: folks that like the show, that are talking to each other, 551 00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:01,600 Speaker 1: sharing memes, discussing the episodes. All of that. All you 552 00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:03,560 Speaker 1: have to do is say either me and Ben's name 553 00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:08,440 Speaker 1: kind of Genie style to gain entry, or honestly say 554 00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:10,880 Speaker 1: something that gives either of us at chuckle also sure 555 00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:13,280 Speaker 1: it's a good pun. I'm Missycher For those You can 556 00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:17,080 Speaker 1: also find us on Twitter. You can find us on Instagram, 557 00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:23,160 Speaker 1: both as a show and as our real life personas. Recently, 558 00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:26,239 Speaker 1: I went to the Comic Strip Museum in Belgium and 559 00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:30,840 Speaker 1: was very surprised by the deeply racist roots of that. 560 00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:33,800 Speaker 1: You can see some of those adventures of my instagram 561 00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:36,280 Speaker 1: where I am at Ben Bully and I am at 562 00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:39,080 Speaker 1: how Now Noel Brown. If you want to do any 563 00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:40,720 Speaker 1: of that stuff, just shoot us an email where we 564 00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:43,600 Speaker 1: are ridiculous at i heart radio dot com. See you 565 00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:48,960 Speaker 1: next time. Books. For more podcasts for my heart Radio, 566 00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:51,680 Speaker 1: visit the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 567 00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:53,360 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.