WEBVTT - Extreme Violence: Inside the Minds of People Who Hate 0:00:00.280 --> 0:00:02.720 Hey, fam I'm Jada Pinkett Smith and this is the 0:00:02.759 --> 0:00:06.080 Red Table Pop podcast all your favorite episodes from the 0:00:06.120 --> 0:00:10.239 Facebook Watch show in audio produced by Westbrook Audio and 0:00:10.360 --> 0:00:13.360 I Heart Radio. Please don't forget to rate and review 0:00:13.680 --> 0:00:18.599 on Apple podcasts in America. We're dealing with so much hate. 0:00:18.960 --> 0:00:22.520 What makes someone turn violent? And unlikely person is joining 0:00:22.520 --> 0:00:25.720 the table. You had never had a thought of the 0:00:25.840 --> 0:00:30.040 people that I'm deshumanizing. Also our children. He led the 0:00:30.160 --> 0:00:33.920 largest and most active neo Nazi group. That's a lot 0:00:34.000 --> 0:00:37.199 of years viewing hate until he met her. I have 0:00:37.560 --> 0:00:40.640 spent most of my life being afraid of men like that. 0:00:40.840 --> 0:00:43.680 What was the moment where you realize, wait a minute, 0:00:44.000 --> 0:00:46.479 why did I stay so long? Why did I do this? 0:00:46.680 --> 0:00:50.800 And you feel really stupid? By three years, our kids 0:00:50.840 --> 0:00:55.400 have an adult like concept of race inside the minds 0:00:55.480 --> 0:00:59.240 of mass shooters. The killers that you've interviewed all had 0:00:59.320 --> 0:01:02.440 one thing in common. What is it? And the NFL 0:01:02.480 --> 0:01:05.200 player who took a stand against hate? There was a 0:01:05.240 --> 0:01:07.000 point in my life where I wouldn't have been able 0:01:07.040 --> 0:01:08.840 to set at the table. You know what I'm saying. 0:01:09.440 --> 0:01:12.960 Unless we understand the root of hatred, this will keep happening. 0:01:18.000 --> 0:01:24.520 So today is going to be um intense. Yeah, to 0:01:24.600 --> 0:01:28.040 say the least, I'm already suttressed in America right now. 0:01:28.160 --> 0:01:32.479 We're dealing with so much hate that's being expressed in 0:01:32.640 --> 0:01:36.920 so many different ways. You know, White supremacy was deemed 0:01:37.440 --> 0:01:42.520 like the number one problem, Yeah, the number one threat 0:01:43.200 --> 0:01:46.800 to to America. But I've always been so interested in 0:01:47.360 --> 0:01:50.360 how the human mind even gets to a point where 0:01:50.400 --> 0:01:53.240 these things are acceptable. When someone shoots up a church, 0:01:53.360 --> 0:01:56.600 or when someone shoots up a grocery store, grocery store, school, 0:01:56.720 --> 0:01:58.960 or when someone calls you a nigger to your face, 0:02:00.240 --> 0:02:05.760 that feels like another It is another level. And that's 0:02:05.800 --> 0:02:09.720 why we wanted to do the show today, to understand 0:02:09.760 --> 0:02:14.880 the psychology of hate. So, an award winning Pakistani filmmaker 0:02:15.120 --> 0:02:17.960 was so fed up with racist attacks against her she 0:02:18.040 --> 0:02:25.200 made the bold decision to turn her camera on behatersd 0:02:25.320 --> 0:02:28.080 a Con is no stranger to hate. Growing up Muslim 0:02:28.080 --> 0:02:31.760 in Norway, she was targeted by Muslim extremists who didn't 0:02:31.760 --> 0:02:35.360 want her speaking out about women's rights. By age seventeen, 0:02:35.560 --> 0:02:38.399 she was in so much danger she fled the country. 0:02:38.639 --> 0:02:42.240 Dia later received a barrage of very serious death threats 0:02:42.280 --> 0:02:46.000 from white supremacists when she made comments promoting diversity. She 0:02:46.120 --> 0:02:48.320 was tired of living her life in fear and made 0:02:48.360 --> 0:02:50.960 the courageous choice to reach out to the leaders of 0:02:51.000 --> 0:02:55.200 several hate groups, not to confront them, but to understand them. 0:02:55.280 --> 0:02:58.440 She bravely sat face to face with America's most vocal 0:02:58.440 --> 0:03:02.040 white supremacists, who are taught to hurt and hate people 0:03:02.240 --> 0:03:08.400 who look like her. That's the clan, Yes, this is 0:03:08.440 --> 0:03:11.120 the cliant head to you. Yes, I'm a racist, and 0:03:11.160 --> 0:03:15.919 I absolutely despised Jews, Jews and homosexuals. They I think 0:03:15.919 --> 0:03:20.239 they should be exterminated, every single one of them. He's 0:03:20.280 --> 0:03:22.680 been a member of the white power movement for many 0:03:22.760 --> 0:03:26.040 years and previously was a grand Dragon of the Ku 0:03:26.120 --> 0:03:30.119 Klux Klan Ken is exactly the kind of person I've 0:03:30.160 --> 0:03:35.720 always been afraid of. I've thrown out flyers denouncing Syrian 0:03:35.800 --> 0:03:41.280 refugees coming over here in the Muslim neighborhoods at the mosque. 0:03:41.680 --> 0:03:43.440 So as you know, I am a woman of color, 0:03:43.560 --> 0:03:45.800 and what I want to ask here is am I 0:03:45.880 --> 0:03:50.720 your enemy? You're not subjectively mine enemy, but what you 0:03:50.760 --> 0:03:55.520 are promoting will lead to the disappearance of my people 0:03:55.520 --> 0:04:01.600 in my culture. I gotta say here and now, that's 0:04:01.640 --> 0:04:05.720 my type of girl. Yes, wow, I just can't image 0:04:07.280 --> 0:04:10.000 keep you cool, man, when you're sitting with somebody like that. 0:04:10.120 --> 0:04:19.040 You know, I have spent most of my life feeling abused, persecuted, targeted, victimized, 0:04:19.120 --> 0:04:22.120 being afraid of men likely, But I knew what they 0:04:22.160 --> 0:04:24.839 wanted from me. They need me to be emotional or 0:04:24.880 --> 0:04:28.200 to lose it, and I did not want to give 0:04:28.240 --> 0:04:30.680 them that. To me, that was crucial. When I started 0:04:30.680 --> 0:04:33.479 getting all these death threats, the police were like, you 0:04:33.520 --> 0:04:36.120 need to take this very seriously because the threats ended 0:04:36.200 --> 0:04:39.560 up on very violent racist websites. So I had to 0:04:39.600 --> 0:04:43.960 make a decision. Do I be afraid or do I 0:04:44.000 --> 0:04:46.640 make a choice that I've never made before, which is 0:04:47.080 --> 0:04:50.120 to go and confront them, but not meet them, to 0:04:50.320 --> 0:04:52.479 argue and to fight and to push back like that, 0:04:53.120 --> 0:04:55.839 but to sit with them and see can they recognize 0:04:55.839 --> 0:04:59.719 my humanity and can I recognize this? But when someone 0:05:00.040 --> 0:05:03.239 says that they think that a group of people should 0:05:03.240 --> 0:05:07.480 be exterminated, I just can't see a world where you're like, oh, 0:05:07.640 --> 0:05:10.120 all right. The thing is you are thinking of this 0:05:10.279 --> 0:05:14.479 very rationally and very logically. Fear and hate is not rational. 0:05:14.880 --> 0:05:17.120 The way a lot of people process the fear is 0:05:17.160 --> 0:05:20.919 that they have to defend themselves, so they don't perceive 0:05:21.000 --> 0:05:25.800 people of color as victims. They perceived themselves as the victims. 0:05:26.000 --> 0:05:28.760 So they need to tell themselves that they're doing the 0:05:28.880 --> 0:05:31.440 right thing. And the only way you can justify violence 0:05:31.480 --> 0:05:34.359 and justify hatred is by putting yourself in the place 0:05:34.440 --> 0:05:38.200 of I am under attack. My survival is on the line, 0:05:38.240 --> 0:05:42.040 so I have to defend myself, my people, my family 0:05:42.520 --> 0:05:46.200 against all these invaders. A lot of my friends are like, 0:05:46.880 --> 0:05:50.120 why do you keep, you know, filming with these crazy people. 0:05:50.440 --> 0:05:52.920 I mean, they're just forget them. I mean they're just 0:05:53.040 --> 0:05:56.440 beyond any kind of approach. Forget it. I have to say, 0:05:56.520 --> 0:05:59.960 it does feel like they're beyond help. I used to 0:06:00.120 --> 0:06:03.159 be like that. I've gone to anti racist protests most 0:06:03.200 --> 0:06:05.320 of my life. I have flipped them off, I have 0:06:05.360 --> 0:06:07.800 shouted at them, I have thrown stuff with them, and 0:06:07.960 --> 0:06:10.560 it felt great. But he didn't do anything. I've done 0:06:10.560 --> 0:06:14.000 that my whole life, and I have accomplished more by 0:06:14.080 --> 0:06:18.560 sitting face to face with these guys than any of that. 0:06:19.120 --> 0:06:22.479 Hate is not something that you can confront with. My 0:06:23.160 --> 0:06:26.919 facts against your facts because it's emotional. You have to 0:06:26.960 --> 0:06:30.679 be able to reach somebody's heart, and even the heart 0:06:30.839 --> 0:06:34.200 of somebody who feels very very dark and very very lost. 0:06:34.240 --> 0:06:36.880 You have to look for the light. So while filming 0:06:36.960 --> 0:06:41.240 this is really interesting, hard. It's sitting here like im now, 0:06:41.320 --> 0:06:43.719 But we're gonna keep going so maybe we can get 0:06:43.760 --> 0:06:47.920 you guys kids, Why why am We're We're on two 0:06:47.960 --> 0:06:50.400 opposite spectrums and they're like they're like are on the 0:06:50.440 --> 0:06:55.920 same body. It just feels like they are not deserving now. 0:06:56.600 --> 0:07:03.159 While filming, DM Met Scoop, leader of the largest and 0:07:03.320 --> 0:07:09.280 most active neo Nazi group in the United States. Where 0:07:09.320 --> 0:07:13.040 a white civil rights organization here in America were white nationalists, 0:07:13.120 --> 0:07:17.600 just as Martin Luther King did for the blacks, our 0:07:17.600 --> 0:07:20.840 mission is pretty much the same. We feel that the 0:07:20.880 --> 0:07:24.200 white race in general is under a full assault. We 0:07:24.280 --> 0:07:26.520 feel that the whites are going to be a minority 0:07:26.560 --> 0:07:32.800 here in this country. We must secure the existence of 0:07:32.800 --> 0:07:34.840 our race in the future for white children. We like 0:07:34.880 --> 0:07:37.480 a homeland of our own for white people. Why did 0:07:37.520 --> 0:07:42.400 you move to Detroit? Perfect recruitment grounds. Anytime you're in 0:07:42.440 --> 0:07:46.040 an area where the economy is suffering, it's somewhere that 0:07:46.120 --> 0:07:49.600 our message resonates with the people. I joined Jeff at 0:07:49.640 --> 0:07:53.200 the next event. The biggest fall right riley in recent 0:07:53.480 --> 0:07:57.840 is in Charlottesville. We are the forces of white and civilization, 0:07:58.440 --> 0:08:10.360 and we are fighting against the poor. A darkness a 0:08:10.440 --> 0:08:16.240 mile away from us. This happens, anti racist protester Heather 0:08:16.360 --> 0:08:19.360 Hair is killed by a car driven by a far 0:08:19.480 --> 0:08:25.280 right protester. Jeff says many of his followers think jobs 0:08:25.280 --> 0:08:28.640 are being taken by immigrants. He thinks it's part of 0:08:28.680 --> 0:08:31.920 a plot against the white race. I decided to show 0:08:32.000 --> 0:08:34.679 him the photo of me with my father, taken at 0:08:34.720 --> 0:08:37.400 an antique stremism rally when I was six years old. 0:08:38.559 --> 0:08:47.720 So that's my dad. People who representatively represent made a 0:08:47.840 --> 0:08:52.480 six year old child for your hated The movement that 0:08:52.600 --> 0:08:57.040 you are a part of has real life effect on 0:08:57.280 --> 0:09:02.720 people like me. How does it make you feel uncomfortable? 0:09:02.760 --> 0:09:06.840 I don't like it. We are still a whites only organization. 0:09:07.400 --> 0:09:13.640 You're not gonna convince me different. Jeff has come a 0:09:13.640 --> 0:09:16.280 long way since then, which is why we allowed him 0:09:16.280 --> 0:09:21.720 into our home. What made you decide at first to 0:09:21.800 --> 0:09:27.440 have a conversation with Dia, who well, typically in my 0:09:27.600 --> 0:09:29.800 role at that time when I involved in the movement, 0:09:31.280 --> 0:09:33.800 being involved in media stuff was a way to get 0:09:33.840 --> 0:09:38.000 out the message. So for me, it was propaganda. There 0:09:38.080 --> 0:09:40.880 was an opportunity to spread the word. What was the 0:09:40.960 --> 0:09:45.640 moment where you realized, wait a minute. There was a 0:09:45.720 --> 0:09:49.320 lot of things that she said, but specifically, what really 0:09:49.400 --> 0:09:53.520 really got to me was when you're involved in these 0:09:53.559 --> 0:09:56.320 kind of movements, a lot of the people think that 0:09:56.360 --> 0:09:59.480 they're doing something good, something noble, something honorable. They're fighting 0:09:59.480 --> 0:10:01.680 for their p so they think they think that way. 0:10:01.679 --> 0:10:04.360 I'm not saying it's right, it's certainly not, but that's 0:10:04.400 --> 0:10:08.160 how they think. That's the psychology of it. And when 0:10:08.240 --> 0:10:11.840 she was talking to me about how she felt as 0:10:11.840 --> 0:10:17.360 a child, how racism, how hatred made her feel diminished 0:10:17.720 --> 0:10:22.960 or less than, something inside of me snapped. It felt 0:10:23.000 --> 0:10:26.280 like getting kicked in the chest by a horse. I 0:10:26.320 --> 0:10:30.600 could literally sense her paint and that didn't sit well 0:10:30.640 --> 0:10:33.760 with me. Here's this wonderful person sitting across from me 0:10:34.160 --> 0:10:38.920 telling a very humanistic story, very personal story, and I 0:10:38.960 --> 0:10:41.840 think back to my own children and the reasons why 0:10:41.880 --> 0:10:44.800 I was involved in the movement. If it's affecting her 0:10:44.840 --> 0:10:48.800 in that manner, she's just one person, how many millions 0:10:48.800 --> 0:10:51.280 of people? Is it affecting in that way? How can 0:10:51.320 --> 0:10:55.200 I reconcile that? So in my mind, I'm trying to 0:10:55.800 --> 0:10:58.800 justify it. Maybe it's not about hate. I kept telling 0:10:58.840 --> 0:11:02.280 myself that. But is it truly is? Was that the 0:11:02.320 --> 0:11:05.080 first time you had had contact with a person of 0:11:05.120 --> 0:11:10.360 color in that way, in that way the very human aspect. Yes, 0:11:10.520 --> 0:11:14.240 so you've got an opportunity to feel the humanity. Is 0:11:14.280 --> 0:11:17.680 that it? Yes? That is absolutely it. When when you 0:11:17.800 --> 0:11:20.559 go into these type of movements and you get involved 0:11:20.559 --> 0:11:24.880 in say far right extremism, you start dehumanizing other people. 0:11:25.240 --> 0:11:27.880 Once you start to humanizing others, you lose your humanity 0:11:27.880 --> 0:11:29.640 in the process, and none of them see that. But 0:11:29.720 --> 0:11:34.319 that's what it is. This moment when talking to Dia. 0:11:34.840 --> 0:11:38.079 In your mind, you had never had a thought process 0:11:38.240 --> 0:11:42.760 of the people that I'm dehumanizing, you know, like also 0:11:42.920 --> 0:11:45.360 our children in this day and age. That never really 0:11:45.360 --> 0:11:49.000 crossed your mind until that moment. You compartmentalize that stuff, 0:11:49.040 --> 0:11:51.000 And that's a really good question. You look back and 0:11:51.000 --> 0:11:53.560 you go, wow, why didn't I figure this out? Where 0:11:53.640 --> 0:11:56.240 was that disconnect? And you're in this echo chamber or 0:11:56.280 --> 0:11:58.160 it's like a bubble as the way I explained it, 0:11:58.200 --> 0:12:00.520 and everybody you know is in there, and they reinforce 0:12:00.600 --> 0:12:03.520 those belief systems. So a lot of times when people 0:12:03.520 --> 0:12:05.880 on the outside are pushing back at that and saying 0:12:06.200 --> 0:12:08.640 this is wrong, and it says, hey, we all know that. 0:12:08.720 --> 0:12:11.560 Everybody at the table knows that, but to the extremest 0:12:11.800 --> 0:12:15.200 they're like, nope, I'm right, because you're all pushing back. 0:12:15.280 --> 0:12:19.040 Idea's approach was trying to understand that total and posing 0:12:19.200 --> 0:12:22.840 questions to get the person to start questioning themselves what 0:12:22.920 --> 0:12:25.360 about this or why why don't you look at it this? 0:12:25.559 --> 0:12:27.880 And then starts the gears turning. And that was very 0:12:27.880 --> 0:12:30.560 conscious on my part, as well as not trying to 0:12:31.920 --> 0:12:36.160 condemn him or fight him or try to out argue him, 0:12:36.200 --> 0:12:39.400 because if I was to do that, then that they 0:12:39.440 --> 0:12:44.319 would close, he would become hardened, and he would double down. 0:12:45.360 --> 0:12:47.440 And I'm looking for a crack. I know it's there. 0:12:47.760 --> 0:12:49.839 I have to somehow locate it. And as soon as 0:12:49.840 --> 0:12:52.280 you find it, then you try to keep chipping and 0:12:52.360 --> 0:12:55.960 chipping and chipping. Was there anything in your own childhood? 0:12:56.440 --> 0:12:59.679 I didn't have a bad childhood growing up, so I 0:12:59.720 --> 0:13:02.800 don't think it was that I'm trying to figure out 0:13:02.840 --> 0:13:06.040 what led you down that path in the first place. 0:13:06.440 --> 0:13:09.640 So for me, my grandfather fought in Hitler's army in 0:13:09.800 --> 0:13:13.520 World War Two. Now, my family was not for this stuff. 0:13:13.559 --> 0:13:16.400 They are actually against it and tried desperately for years 0:13:16.440 --> 0:13:19.440 to get me out. But it was that fascination with 0:13:19.559 --> 0:13:23.839 his history, my grandfather and my great uncle's fought that 0:13:23.960 --> 0:13:27.559 was the opening to the rabbit hole. That was the 0:13:27.720 --> 0:13:30.480 entry point. I don't blame anybody for it. It's my 0:13:30.520 --> 0:13:33.640 own fault. I take a full responsibility for it, and 0:13:33.760 --> 0:13:39.760 my involvement in that life caused my family great irreparable harm. 0:13:39.800 --> 0:13:43.920 My mother's career was destroyed, and it really really damaged 0:13:43.960 --> 0:13:49.280 my family a lot. Wow. So when you decided to 0:13:49.880 --> 0:13:53.120 remove yourself as you had this new awakening, you had 0:13:53.120 --> 0:13:57.079 a lot of amends to make. Yeah, how did that go? 0:13:57.440 --> 0:13:59.880 Most of the damage that I did my rhetoric and 0:14:00.120 --> 0:14:02.560 that the hateful stuff that I spewed for so long 0:14:03.240 --> 0:14:07.840 was to minority communities, and especially my hatred was directed 0:14:07.880 --> 0:14:12.280 at Jewish community in particular. So since I've been out, 0:14:12.720 --> 0:14:15.040 I went to the Jewish community. I met with the 0:14:15.080 --> 0:14:18.120 Simon Weison Fall Center, who I'm now a consultant for Today. 0:14:20.000 --> 0:14:23.440 Named after a survivor of four different concentration camps during 0:14:23.480 --> 0:14:27.720 the Holocaust who then became a prominent Nazi hunter, The 0:14:27.800 --> 0:14:32.800 Simon Weisenthall Center is a global organization that confronts anti Semitism, 0:14:32.800 --> 0:14:38.280 hate and terrorism. The Center uses Jeff to educate students, teachers, 0:14:38.360 --> 0:14:42.080 and law enforcement about how people become radicalized in what 0:14:42.200 --> 0:14:46.480 modern anti semitism looks like. There's a lot of guilt, 0:14:46.560 --> 0:14:49.920 there's a lot of shame and embarrassment um having lived 0:14:49.960 --> 0:14:52.720 that life. So I try to help wherever I can. 0:14:53.800 --> 0:14:56.800 I run a nonprofit organization called Beyond Barriers that deals 0:14:56.840 --> 0:15:01.160 with extremist disengagements. We're bringing people out those organizations all 0:15:01.160 --> 0:15:04.800 the time. My passion is with the schools. If we 0:15:04.840 --> 0:15:08.560 can get young people to confront biases. Really what a 0:15:08.600 --> 0:15:10.840 lot of hate is based on, this fear. To get 0:15:10.880 --> 0:15:13.200 past those fears, that's where we can make a difference. 0:15:13.280 --> 0:15:19.240 So where do you feel as though those fears come from, specifically, 0:15:19.280 --> 0:15:22.480 like dealing with young people, is it's something that's taught 0:15:22.520 --> 0:15:24.760 in the home. It can be if if it's taught 0:15:24.760 --> 0:15:27.160 in the home, it's more difficult for them to overcome 0:15:27.200 --> 0:15:30.280 because they're hearing that garbage from their parents as their 0:15:30.400 --> 0:15:33.640 family members very you know, old anti Semitic tropes and 0:15:33.960 --> 0:15:38.200 things like that. You know you're talking about going into 0:15:38.240 --> 0:15:42.800 the schools. But what did you do to change your 0:15:42.840 --> 0:15:46.160 own thinking? You were in this life for how long? 0:15:46.960 --> 0:15:51.800 Twenty seven years total a lifetime, A lifetime. Yeah, that's 0:15:51.840 --> 0:15:57.120 a lot of years spewing hate. How did you reform yourself? 0:15:57.520 --> 0:16:00.080 So there was people that helped me. I've met a 0:16:00.120 --> 0:16:02.280 man that works with me today by the name of 0:16:02.360 --> 0:16:05.960 Darryl Davis, and he's a black musician played with Chuck Berry. 0:16:06.000 --> 0:16:08.880 If he talked about how racism and hate affected him 0:16:08.920 --> 0:16:13.080 as a child and it didn't sit right, Daryld was 0:16:13.120 --> 0:16:17.200 a really important figure in working through those things. Darryl 0:16:17.320 --> 0:16:20.360 Davis is an internationally known R and B artists and 0:16:20.440 --> 0:16:23.480 activists who stands up to hate by engaging with members 0:16:23.520 --> 0:16:27.400 of the KKK and other extremist groups. He has helped 0:16:27.480 --> 0:16:33.320 hundreds of people confront their deeply rooted racism. When I 0:16:33.400 --> 0:16:37.160 first left, I call it my decompression period, where you 0:16:37.240 --> 0:16:40.960 feel like your brain and everything is going. You're just 0:16:41.040 --> 0:16:43.920 like a sponge almost because you're going. Why did I 0:16:43.960 --> 0:16:46.560 stay so long, why did I do this? And you 0:16:46.600 --> 0:16:50.040 feel really stupid and ignorant, and then you want to 0:16:50.080 --> 0:16:53.400 figure out how can I fix this? But that first 0:16:53.480 --> 0:16:59.560 six months especially was so difficult because you you there 0:16:59.600 --> 0:17:02.440 was so much to process, and then going to work 0:17:02.480 --> 0:17:05.400 trying to repair some of that damage, Donna learning more 0:17:05.440 --> 0:17:08.720 about different people. It was almost like re educating yourself, 0:17:09.760 --> 0:17:15.360 having that first experience going to a synagogue and talking 0:17:15.400 --> 0:17:20.200 to everybody there, the outpouring of love and compassion and forgiveness. 0:17:20.359 --> 0:17:23.360 I didn't have any right to ask for forgiveness, which 0:17:23.359 --> 0:17:25.520 I didn't. I still don't feel I have that right 0:17:25.560 --> 0:17:28.399 to ask. But people came up and hugged me. It 0:17:28.480 --> 0:17:31.920 just blew me away. It was really, I'm sure part 0:17:31.960 --> 0:17:36.679 of the healing process, the transforcation and being able to 0:17:37.280 --> 0:17:41.240 deprogram the idea that these people are not human exactly. 0:17:41.400 --> 0:17:45.360 I'm still learning every single day to be a better person. Yeah, 0:17:45.480 --> 0:17:47.320 and I'll be doing that for the rest of my life. 0:17:47.359 --> 0:17:51.880 I can't imagine. Must be rough, right. So, according to 0:17:52.000 --> 0:17:54.840 the FBI, Jewish people in America, who are only two 0:17:54.840 --> 0:17:57.320 percent of the population or the target of more than 0:17:57.400 --> 0:18:01.880 half of all religious hate crimes. Every year we document 0:18:01.960 --> 0:18:05.320 anti Semitic incidents. In two thousand twenty one, we tallied 0:18:05.359 --> 0:18:11.119 twenty seven hundred plus anti Semitic incidents, the highest number ever. 0:18:11.520 --> 0:18:15.640 This includes harassment, vandalism, and assault. And we've been doing 0:18:15.640 --> 0:18:18.119 this for forty something years. So we are in a 0:18:18.160 --> 0:18:21.440 moment now where the data is telling us that something 0:18:21.520 --> 0:18:24.600 is not normal. It's trending in the wrong direction. Social 0:18:24.640 --> 0:18:29.720 media and the ability for the normalization of hatred, including 0:18:29.760 --> 0:18:33.640 anti Semitism, to spread is key. When you look at 0:18:33.760 --> 0:18:37.560 FBI hate crime data, we are at very high levels. 0:18:37.720 --> 0:18:40.720 The truth is the FBI hate crime data doesn't even 0:18:40.920 --> 0:18:43.840 you know, scratch the surface. FBI data under counts it. 0:18:44.520 --> 0:18:47.560 We have also seen a series of mass shootings in 0:18:47.600 --> 0:18:51.600 this country, some targeting the Jewish community, others targeting African 0:18:51.600 --> 0:18:55.359 American community, the Hispanic community. And when you're looking at 0:18:55.400 --> 0:18:57.919 you know, the deadliest year against the trans community, the 0:18:57.960 --> 0:19:00.320 highest number of anti Semitic incidents report it to a 0:19:00.400 --> 0:19:03.800 d L. We need to ask ourselves what is happening? 0:19:04.520 --> 0:19:08.560 Why is hate becoming so common and normalist white supremacy 0:19:08.640 --> 0:19:15.400 and hatred knows no borders. So Dr Ibram x Kendy 0:19:15.560 --> 0:19:19.159 is the director of Boston University Center for Anti Racist 0:19:19.240 --> 0:19:22.359 Research and author of the new book How to Raise 0:19:22.520 --> 0:19:26.639 an Anti Racist. Welcome to the table, Dr Kendy, how 0:19:26.680 --> 0:19:30.359 did you feel about what Jeff was sharing at the table? 0:19:31.520 --> 0:19:35.399 What you shared shows both the power of the human 0:19:35.440 --> 0:19:39.920 being to change, but then also courage to begin this process. 0:19:40.560 --> 0:19:45.000 Can you give us some insight about where hate comes from? 0:19:45.280 --> 0:19:49.560 Scholars have consistently shown that no one is born right, 0:19:50.080 --> 0:19:53.159 no one is born holding sexist or racist or anti 0:19:53.200 --> 0:19:59.199 Semitic ideas. But kids are born into an unequal world, 0:20:00.000 --> 0:20:02.240 and they're born into a world in which they've taught 0:20:02.760 --> 0:20:05.879 that certain people have more because they are more, and 0:20:06.119 --> 0:20:09.880 other people have less because there are less. And then 0:20:09.920 --> 0:20:12.600 as they sort of come of age and people start 0:20:12.640 --> 0:20:16.320 telling them that the source of their struggles are those 0:20:16.320 --> 0:20:20.360 other people who don't look like them, that causes them 0:20:20.400 --> 0:20:22.480 to then hate them. So in a way, kids in 0:20:22.520 --> 0:20:27.119 our society, we almost provide them with this unfortunate foundation 0:20:27.200 --> 0:20:33.280 to hate, the idea of just needing someone to blame exactly. 0:20:33.320 --> 0:20:36.760 And I think it's important for us to just get 0:20:36.800 --> 0:20:41.119 at the root. The roots of bigotry are very powerful 0:20:41.160 --> 0:20:47.240 people who are instituting policies and rules that lead to 0:20:47.440 --> 0:20:52.480 inequities and inequality between groups, and then those powerful people 0:20:52.840 --> 0:20:59.480 produce hate to then justify those inequities, and then people 0:20:59.520 --> 0:21:03.359 consume the cycle those ideas and that causes them to 0:21:03.400 --> 0:21:05.520 become ignorant and hateful. So probably one of the most 0:21:05.520 --> 0:21:09.800 obvious examples during the enslavement era, right, you had people 0:21:09.840 --> 0:21:13.400 who were enslaving black people to make money, and then 0:21:13.440 --> 0:21:17.440 they produced racist ideas that said these people were fit 0:21:17.560 --> 0:21:21.240 for enslavement. People then consume those ideas and believe them 0:21:21.240 --> 0:21:24.679 and became hateful. That's happened with sexism, that's happening with Oh, 0:21:24.760 --> 0:21:26.960 poor people are poor because they don't want to work 0:21:27.000 --> 0:21:30.000 hard as opposed to the policies that people put in 0:21:30.040 --> 0:21:35.399 play exactly, Like that's the route. Yeah, it's all steeped 0:21:35.440 --> 0:21:37.600 in feory. We all have our fears, right, and I think, 0:21:37.720 --> 0:21:40.840 like when when we've been talking about the psychology of hate, 0:21:41.400 --> 0:21:45.199 there's something that can always be addressed in us all 0:21:45.320 --> 0:21:50.080 and understanding how not to add to the energy of hate. 0:21:50.640 --> 0:21:53.360 It's a really deep subject and it's something we all 0:21:53.400 --> 0:21:56.280 have to participate in. If you don't have the resources, 0:21:56.320 --> 0:21:58.400 I think it's very hard. I've filmed with this other 0:21:58.600 --> 0:22:01.840 neo Nazi. He's armed as well now. And one of 0:22:01.880 --> 0:22:04.000 the things he said, he said, as a child, he 0:22:04.080 --> 0:22:07.720 was beaten by his stepfather like he would beat a 0:22:07.800 --> 0:22:11.000 grown man. And he said, this group finally recruited him 0:22:11.040 --> 0:22:13.440 and said, you know, we have your back. And one night, 0:22:13.480 --> 0:22:16.520 he said, they went out looking for somebody to to beat, 0:22:17.119 --> 0:22:19.280 and he said, I started beating this guy said. I 0:22:19.320 --> 0:22:21.399 looked in his eyes and he said I saw something 0:22:21.440 --> 0:22:24.080 that I'd never seen before. And he said I loved it, 0:22:24.119 --> 0:22:27.600 and I'm going, what was it? He said, fear? He said, 0:22:27.640 --> 0:22:30.919 you know, for me, somebody who was afraid my entire life, 0:22:31.240 --> 0:22:34.880 now somebody else was afraid of me. The I hate 0:22:34.920 --> 0:22:37.040 to say this, I really hate to say this. Some 0:22:37.080 --> 0:22:42.080 people feel powerless just like he did, and don't do that. Yes, 0:22:43.040 --> 0:22:46.000 So that's also the part that my mind just malfunction, 0:22:46.240 --> 0:22:49.360 like it just I don't understand. So I have grappled 0:22:49.400 --> 0:22:52.400 with this very same thing. I filmed with mostly extremists, 0:22:52.440 --> 0:22:56.080 and they're talking about the racism that they feel, the 0:22:56.119 --> 0:22:59.600 alienation that they felt when I'm sitting there going me too, 0:23:00.480 --> 0:23:03.000 me too, me too, me too? And then I was 0:23:03.080 --> 0:23:05.240 left with that question too, and I was going, why 0:23:05.280 --> 0:23:07.639 do I pick up a camera and you pick up 0:23:07.640 --> 0:23:10.359 a gun? What is the difference? Because on top of 0:23:10.400 --> 0:23:12.239 all the stuff, I'm a woman, so I've also had 0:23:12.280 --> 0:23:14.280 to deal with all of that. You don't see me 0:23:14.800 --> 0:23:19.400 strapping a bomb to me? What? And finally I came 0:23:19.480 --> 0:23:22.840 to the realization it matters who shows up in your 0:23:22.880 --> 0:23:26.440 life when you're at your most broken, at your most vulnerable. 0:23:26.600 --> 0:23:31.600 Who do you have that will set the path for 0:23:31.600 --> 0:23:35.680 for the gun or the camera. What I think is 0:23:35.720 --> 0:23:39.320 really important also to say is this is trying to 0:23:39.440 --> 0:23:44.280 understand extremist mindset and violent people's mindset. Is not to 0:23:44.440 --> 0:23:47.840 justify it, excuse it, or diminish it. And we cannot 0:23:48.000 --> 0:23:51.080 underestimate the devastation that it causes. And I also think 0:23:51.080 --> 0:23:53.960 it's really important to say I don't think that it 0:23:54.040 --> 0:23:56.879 is the burden and responsibility of people of color to 0:23:56.920 --> 0:24:00.320 have to reform white supremacists. Why should it be the 0:24:00.359 --> 0:24:04.680 responsibility of oppressed people of abused women to have, for example, 0:24:05.080 --> 0:24:08.120 to reform the guy who beats her. I agree that 0:24:08.200 --> 0:24:13.320 it shouldn't be the responsibility of absolutely people, particularly in 0:24:14.080 --> 0:24:18.040 in white supremacist spaces. The people who can be the 0:24:18.080 --> 0:24:21.399 most powerful are the white people. If a white person 0:24:21.480 --> 0:24:25.280 stands up and says no, that's wrong, there's going to 0:24:25.320 --> 0:24:29.280 be a certain level of respect shown to that. Absolutely, yeah, absolutely, 0:24:29.800 --> 0:24:35.880 Dr Kendy. You have ways to raise an anti racist child. 0:24:36.320 --> 0:24:39.560 What are they? We have to teach empathy, but it's 0:24:39.600 --> 0:24:42.080 important for us to be clear that there are people 0:24:42.359 --> 0:24:46.080 who are only empathetic to people who look like and 0:24:46.119 --> 0:24:48.240 so we also have to teach kids how to be 0:24:48.280 --> 0:24:51.480 critical thinkers. You know, we have to teach kids how 0:24:51.520 --> 0:24:54.919 to ask questions. We also have to make sure our 0:24:55.000 --> 0:24:59.359 kids are being raised in a diverse environment, so not 0:24:59.440 --> 0:25:02.560 just the na borhood in schools, but the toy box, 0:25:03.440 --> 0:25:08.120 the library, even your friends. So one study found that 0:25:08.160 --> 0:25:13.560 the racial attitudes of white children are more correlated to 0:25:13.640 --> 0:25:16.760 the number of friends of color that a white mother 0:25:16.920 --> 0:25:21.760