1 00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:09,200 Speaker 1: Welcome to Before Breakfast, a production of iHeartRadio. Good Morning. 2 00:00:10,080 --> 00:00:15,200 Speaker 2: This is Laura, Welcome to the Before Breakfast podcast. Today's 3 00:00:15,240 --> 00:00:18,119 Speaker 2: episode is a longer one, and it is part of 4 00:00:18,120 --> 00:00:21,200 Speaker 2: my series of interviews with people talking about how they 5 00:00:21,239 --> 00:00:25,200 Speaker 2: take their days from great to awesome. Today, I am 6 00:00:25,239 --> 00:00:28,760 Speaker 2: excited to have a conversation with Chris Bailey. Chris is 7 00:00:28,760 --> 00:00:32,760 Speaker 2: the author of several productivity books, including The Productivity Project, 8 00:00:33,080 --> 00:00:37,640 Speaker 2: hyper Focus and How to Calm Your Mind. He lives 9 00:00:37,760 --> 00:00:41,400 Speaker 2: in Canada, writes about a variety of topics, podcasts and 10 00:00:41,479 --> 00:00:44,800 Speaker 2: all that. So Chris, go ahead and introduce yourself to 11 00:00:45,040 --> 00:00:45,720 Speaker 2: our listeners. 12 00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:50,360 Speaker 3: Hello, how's it go When you say good morning? I 13 00:00:50,440 --> 00:00:53,519 Speaker 3: want to say good morning, Laura. I feel if I 14 00:00:53,560 --> 00:00:56,480 Speaker 3: listen to this podcast, I would be talking back to it. 15 00:00:56,680 --> 00:00:58,400 Speaker 1: Well maybe people do, I don't know. In their car 16 00:00:58,440 --> 00:00:59,560 Speaker 1: it will say good morning back. 17 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:01,560 Speaker 3: But it's a two way podcast. 18 00:01:01,800 --> 00:01:03,000 Speaker 1: Totally. Totally. 19 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:06,959 Speaker 3: Yeah. So my name is Chris and I'm your Canadian 20 00:01:07,080 --> 00:01:11,600 Speaker 3: productivity pal. I guess this is just like this topic. 21 00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:16,120 Speaker 3: I'm a huge nerd about some people like you, like you, 22 00:01:16,120 --> 00:01:19,280 Speaker 3: you know, some people have normal interest like I don't 23 00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:25,280 Speaker 3: even know cooking, literature, sports. I've always been into this 24 00:01:25,360 --> 00:01:28,640 Speaker 3: idea though, of becoming as productive as possible every day. 25 00:01:29,319 --> 00:01:34,160 Speaker 3: And maybe it's partly because I want to extract more 26 00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:37,440 Speaker 3: out of what limited time we have every day. Maybe 27 00:01:37,480 --> 00:01:41,760 Speaker 3: it's the fact that I'm a fundamentally lazy person and 28 00:01:41,920 --> 00:01:45,400 Speaker 3: just want more time to lay on the couch after 29 00:01:45,520 --> 00:01:52,360 Speaker 3: work and relax and listen to songs on repeat one whatever, 30 00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:56,040 Speaker 3: whatever the reason, I've been into this idea of productivity 31 00:01:56,080 --> 00:01:59,200 Speaker 3: for quite some time. And my whole approach is just 32 00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:02,040 Speaker 3: productvity is about intentionality. 33 00:02:02,440 --> 00:02:02,600 Speaker 1: You know. 34 00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:06,440 Speaker 3: It's not about doing more and more and more faster, faster, faster. 35 00:02:06,720 --> 00:02:11,360 Speaker 3: This's a recipe for stress, for burnout, for anxiety, for 36 00:02:11,680 --> 00:02:16,040 Speaker 3: all this noise in our head in our life. But 37 00:02:16,520 --> 00:02:19,880 Speaker 3: I think productivity is about doing the right things deliberately 38 00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:24,680 Speaker 3: and with intention And it's that idea of intentionality that 39 00:02:24,919 --> 00:02:28,079 Speaker 3: should lie at the core of how we're productive, how 40 00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:30,960 Speaker 3: we become more productive, and you know, so we can 41 00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:34,440 Speaker 3: invest in kindness along the way for ourselves, for others 42 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:37,919 Speaker 3: and you know, have a have a happy day, happy life. 43 00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:40,360 Speaker 1: Sounds good to me. I mean, were you into this 44 00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:43,760 Speaker 1: in school as well, like you know, young teenage Chris, 45 00:02:44,200 --> 00:02:46,799 Speaker 1: Like sitting there with your planner in high school. I mean, 46 00:02:46,919 --> 00:02:47,519 Speaker 1: was it like that. 47 00:02:48,040 --> 00:02:51,400 Speaker 3: I remember, and this this is kind of sad to 48 00:02:51,480 --> 00:02:54,400 Speaker 3: admit on some level, but I remember when we were 49 00:02:54,440 --> 00:02:58,120 Speaker 3: growing up, my friends and family would be on the beach, 50 00:02:58,240 --> 00:03:02,360 Speaker 3: like playing volleyball and stuff, but I would half of 51 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:06,600 Speaker 3: my suitcase would be books. It would be productivity books. 52 00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:10,839 Speaker 3: It would be you know, just things to digest and 53 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:16,520 Speaker 3: dissect and connect with one another. And this opens up 54 00:03:16,520 --> 00:03:19,880 Speaker 3: a whole other discussion of like how much productivity advice 55 00:03:20,080 --> 00:03:23,680 Speaker 3: is worth consuming. If you spend all day consuming productivity advice, 56 00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:26,760 Speaker 3: there goes all your time. You're not going to be that. 57 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:30,679 Speaker 3: But like there there is that point of diminishing marginal 58 00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:33,400 Speaker 3: returns with this stuff. But I don't know if I 59 00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:35,680 Speaker 3: hit it back in high school, you know, so I 60 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:39,560 Speaker 3: would always be obsessed with this, you know, investing in 61 00:03:39,600 --> 00:03:44,560 Speaker 3: these strategies again for that kind of laziness idea. I suppose, 62 00:03:45,360 --> 00:03:50,280 Speaker 3: how can I get great grades while putting in a 63 00:03:50,440 --> 00:03:53,200 Speaker 3: minimal amount of effort so I have more time for 64 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:56,160 Speaker 3: the things that are more enjoyable to me. And so 65 00:03:56,760 --> 00:04:00,760 Speaker 3: it's very much And I remember picking up a copy 66 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:03,720 Speaker 3: of Getting Things Done as a young teenager. That kind 67 00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:09,080 Speaker 3: of set off this whole journey. For me, the driest 68 00:04:09,200 --> 00:04:12,800 Speaker 3: book in the store probably, but for me, I just 69 00:04:13,320 --> 00:04:13,960 Speaker 3: ate it up to it. 70 00:04:14,680 --> 00:04:16,919 Speaker 1: Should be trade. Yeah, and you kind of turn this 71 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:21,400 Speaker 1: into your own job then, like as a twenty something 72 00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:25,120 Speaker 1: you undertook this productivity project where you tried out all 73 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:27,600 Speaker 1: these different strategies and wrote about that. 74 00:04:28,480 --> 00:04:32,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, so that kind of We can fast forward from 75 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:35,960 Speaker 3: high school up until the point when I graduated from 76 00:04:36,080 --> 00:04:41,760 Speaker 3: university over a decade now and over a decade ago now, 77 00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:45,480 Speaker 3: and I received a few full time job offers at 78 00:04:45,520 --> 00:04:48,520 Speaker 3: the time, but I remember thinking, like, there's ever a 79 00:04:48,560 --> 00:04:52,359 Speaker 3: time to do something that I actually find meaningful to me. 80 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:55,359 Speaker 3: Might not be meaningful to other people, but it was 81 00:04:55,440 --> 00:04:59,479 Speaker 3: meaningful to me. It was then, so I declined the jobs, 82 00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:04,080 Speaker 3: which looked like a ridiculous decision to most of the 83 00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:07,040 Speaker 3: people in my life, but it just felt right, and 84 00:05:07,120 --> 00:05:10,480 Speaker 3: I declined them to spend a year of my life 85 00:05:10,520 --> 00:05:14,080 Speaker 3: trying to devour as much as I possibly could about 86 00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:17,400 Speaker 3: productivity advice because you know, you know this, you weighed 87 00:05:17,440 --> 00:05:19,680 Speaker 3: through a lot of this stuff. There's a lot of 88 00:05:19,720 --> 00:05:22,360 Speaker 3: advice out there, and not all of it is worth 89 00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:25,720 Speaker 3: our time. Some is fun to read, about some is 90 00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:29,719 Speaker 3: fun to you know, try on for size some, but 91 00:05:29,839 --> 00:05:32,440 Speaker 3: a lot of it just makes us busier instead of 92 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:36,880 Speaker 3: actually allowing us to move things forward in a meaningful fashion. 93 00:05:37,279 --> 00:05:38,800 Speaker 3: And so I thought, okay, I'm going to spend a 94 00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:43,760 Speaker 3: year and try to get my sifter out. And you know, 95 00:05:43,839 --> 00:05:46,440 Speaker 3: as if I was on that beach again reading these books, 96 00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:50,640 Speaker 3: you know, filtering out the golden nuggets of productivity advice, 97 00:05:51,040 --> 00:05:54,119 Speaker 3: the stuff that actually allows us to earn back time, 98 00:05:54,839 --> 00:05:59,880 Speaker 3: and you know, separate those nuggets of wisdom, of advice 99 00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:05,360 Speaker 3: of research from the things that are just fluff and 100 00:06:05,800 --> 00:06:09,440 Speaker 3: don't necessarily allow us to earn back time. And you know, 101 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:13,400 Speaker 3: I experimented with basically as much as I could get 102 00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:16,640 Speaker 3: my hands on. I wrote about it on my website 103 00:06:16,680 --> 00:06:19,680 Speaker 3: at the time, which was called a Year of Productivity, 104 00:06:20,120 --> 00:06:23,719 Speaker 3: and that eventually led to the book that you mentioned 105 00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:27,440 Speaker 3: that the Productivity Project, where I kind of, you know, said, Okay, 106 00:06:27,480 --> 00:06:31,680 Speaker 3: these are the tactics that are worth your time. Not 107 00:06:31,839 --> 00:06:35,360 Speaker 3: all of them are, but a lot of them are. 108 00:06:35,839 --> 00:06:38,640 Speaker 1: Well, let's talk about one that you still use now. 109 00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:40,680 Speaker 1: I mean, if you're going to choose one that, like 110 00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:43,599 Speaker 1: you know, you've stuck with because you found it useful? 111 00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:44,159 Speaker 1: What would that be? 112 00:06:44,520 --> 00:06:49,719 Speaker 3: Oh? Man, I feel as though I'm a broken record 113 00:06:50,040 --> 00:06:54,080 Speaker 3: because I repeat this one strategy so much basically everywhere 114 00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:57,240 Speaker 3: I go. But I do it every single day. I've 115 00:06:57,240 --> 00:06:59,360 Speaker 3: done it every single day for a decade. And it's 116 00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:03,640 Speaker 3: called the rule of three. So essentially, the idea is, so, 117 00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:07,360 Speaker 3: if productivity is about intentionality like that, that's that's an 118 00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:10,400 Speaker 3: idea that sounds sounds great. It's like, okay, that's great 119 00:07:10,400 --> 00:07:14,080 Speaker 3: in theory, but how do how does the rubber actually 120 00:07:14,160 --> 00:07:17,800 Speaker 3: meet the road, and how do we actually make progress 121 00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:22,640 Speaker 3: toward this ideal of what productivity should be? And for me, 122 00:07:22,760 --> 00:07:25,200 Speaker 3: that's where the rule of three comes in. So it 123 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:28,200 Speaker 3: goes like this goes like this. At the start of 124 00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:31,720 Speaker 3: the day, you fast forward in your head to the 125 00:07:31,840 --> 00:07:35,560 Speaker 3: end of the day and you ask yourself, but the 126 00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:39,840 Speaker 3: time that this day is done, what three main things 127 00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:43,160 Speaker 3: will I want to have accomplished? And you know, you 128 00:07:43,200 --> 00:07:46,640 Speaker 3: do other stuff too. If if we did only three things, 129 00:07:46,760 --> 00:07:49,720 Speaker 3: most of us wouldn't have a job after much of a. 130 00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:56,360 Speaker 4: Three kids, right, yeah, sorry, other two and so you know, 131 00:07:56,400 --> 00:08:00,640 Speaker 4: there is the minutia of things to uh to keep 132 00:08:00,760 --> 00:08:05,920 Speaker 4: up with, but these become your three most important priorities, right, 133 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:09,600 Speaker 4: So you know, I feel like I'm preaching to the choir, 134 00:08:09,720 --> 00:08:13,040 Speaker 4: talking to you if obviously, if everything is a priority 135 00:08:13,040 --> 00:08:15,440 Speaker 4: in your day, nothing is a priority. 136 00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:18,480 Speaker 3: It's all. It's all equal to each other. So the 137 00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:21,480 Speaker 3: idea behind the ritual you can only pick three, and 138 00:08:21,520 --> 00:08:24,760 Speaker 3: so you have to weed out the things that are 139 00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:28,400 Speaker 3: most critical. So I like to do this across the 140 00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:32,160 Speaker 3: different contexts of my life. So I do three with work, 141 00:08:32,320 --> 00:08:36,160 Speaker 3: three at home. And so easiest to illustrate this with 142 00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:39,560 Speaker 3: an example probably my three work ones today. Enjoy a 143 00:08:39,559 --> 00:08:44,320 Speaker 3: few media interviews there today, Hello everybody, that's what we're 144 00:08:44,320 --> 00:08:48,360 Speaker 3: doing now, structure a speaking event that's coming up, and 145 00:08:48,520 --> 00:08:52,440 Speaker 3: spend one and a half hours just hunkered down writing 146 00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:55,600 Speaker 3: the next book that I'm working on. So there's email, 147 00:08:55,880 --> 00:08:59,560 Speaker 3: there's other stuff, but these three things are what I 148 00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:04,600 Speaker 3: want to to pour my heart into today. And with home, 149 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:07,959 Speaker 3: oh there's a okay, this first one. I don't want 150 00:09:07,960 --> 00:09:10,120 Speaker 3: to get off on a tangent. We only got twenty 151 00:09:10,160 --> 00:09:15,000 Speaker 3: five minutes. But so my wife knows if she wants 152 00:09:15,040 --> 00:09:18,720 Speaker 3: to get me to go to something, she just has 153 00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:23,040 Speaker 3: to like make sure there's snacks where we're going. And 154 00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:29,520 Speaker 3: so there is a snack festival, a snack festival Laura 155 00:09:29,679 --> 00:09:33,679 Speaker 3: in Ottawa that we're going to later today. Well that's fact. 156 00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:37,320 Speaker 3: That's the first priority. Priorities can be fun. You know, 157 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:40,640 Speaker 3: I'm going to devour a lot of snacks later today. 158 00:09:42,040 --> 00:09:44,280 Speaker 3: The second one is spent some quality time with her 159 00:09:44,360 --> 00:09:47,720 Speaker 3: after you know, we both had a big week with stuff. 160 00:09:48,040 --> 00:09:52,040 Speaker 3: And third is to wash our cat, Eleanor. And so 161 00:09:52,120 --> 00:09:55,720 Speaker 3: it's random, it's a poperie of things. But when the 162 00:09:55,800 --> 00:09:57,760 Speaker 3: day is done, these are the three things I want 163 00:09:57,800 --> 00:10:01,400 Speaker 3: to do and snacks and Eleanor will be washed. Oh, 164 00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:04,920 Speaker 3: life will be good. Life will be good. And so 165 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:07,840 Speaker 3: the idea is, you know, you have these three daily priorities, 166 00:10:08,200 --> 00:10:10,600 Speaker 3: and you can do the rule every week too. So 167 00:10:10,760 --> 00:10:15,360 Speaker 3: how and so in those ways, our our longer term 168 00:10:15,400 --> 00:10:19,480 Speaker 3: goals can can filter and funnel down into our shorter 169 00:10:19,640 --> 00:10:21,400 Speaker 3: term goals. We can do it every month, we can 170 00:10:21,440 --> 00:10:26,960 Speaker 3: do it every every year, so that our intentions funnel 171 00:10:27,559 --> 00:10:30,880 Speaker 3: down and trickle down into where the rubber actually meets 172 00:10:30,920 --> 00:10:33,440 Speaker 3: the road on a daily basis. This is probably my 173 00:10:33,559 --> 00:10:37,040 Speaker 3: favorite tactic. Awesome, Sorry, I felt like I talked for 174 00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:37,640 Speaker 3: like ten minutes. 175 00:10:37,679 --> 00:10:39,360 Speaker 1: That's okay, But we're going to take a quick outbreak 176 00:10:39,360 --> 00:10:49,199 Speaker 1: and we'll be back with more productivity tips from Chris. Well, 177 00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:52,439 Speaker 1: we are back. This is one of the longer interview 178 00:10:52,559 --> 00:10:56,560 Speaker 1: versions of Before Breakfast. I am interviewing Chris Bailey, who 179 00:10:56,640 --> 00:10:59,800 Speaker 1: is a productivity expert the author of several books, including 180 00:10:59,840 --> 00:11:03,680 Speaker 1: The productivity Project, hyper Focus How to Calm Your Mind. 181 00:11:04,120 --> 00:11:08,240 Speaker 1: So we're talking his favorite productivity tips. I would love 182 00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:11,360 Speaker 1: to hear about your current morning routine, Chris, What are 183 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:13,920 Speaker 1: you doing when you wake up? For people listening to 184 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:15,920 Speaker 1: a podcast called Before Breakfast? 185 00:11:16,280 --> 00:11:20,760 Speaker 3: Yes, yes, this would be kind of on message, wouldn't it. 186 00:11:21,520 --> 00:11:26,200 Speaker 3: So Okay, there's what we're chatting over. Videos. People can't 187 00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:29,360 Speaker 3: people can't see this, but this is what wakes me up. 188 00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:30,319 Speaker 3: Do they see this thing? 189 00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:32,280 Speaker 1: I see it, but you're gonna have to describe it. 190 00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:36,600 Speaker 3: Yes, I will. Yes, we are in an audio medium, 191 00:11:36,800 --> 00:11:40,520 Speaker 3: I suppose. So this is it's shaped like a smartphone, 192 00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:45,920 Speaker 3: but it doesn't have it has an e ink screen, 193 00:11:47,240 --> 00:11:50,520 Speaker 3: and so this is an e reader that it's called 194 00:11:50,559 --> 00:11:52,640 Speaker 3: the book's palma b oh oh ex. I have no 195 00:11:52,679 --> 00:11:56,559 Speaker 3: affiliation with these people or anything, but this little device. 196 00:11:56,800 --> 00:12:00,200 Speaker 3: It runs Android. I'm usually on iPhone, but this is 197 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:04,280 Speaker 3: my Android thing, and it has an alarm, it has 198 00:12:04,800 --> 00:12:09,280 Speaker 3: you can download apps. Remember it's an e reader screen, 199 00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:13,040 Speaker 3: So it's terrible. You don't even want to use the apps, 200 00:12:13,520 --> 00:12:16,360 Speaker 3: which is great, that's ideally what you want. But it's 201 00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:19,600 Speaker 3: got Bluetooth, it's got Wi Fi. And so this is 202 00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:22,160 Speaker 3: what wakes me up in the morning. I don't want 203 00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:25,840 Speaker 3: to be woken up by my phone because then I'll 204 00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:28,760 Speaker 3: be in bed for like half an hour, however long 205 00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:32,480 Speaker 3: I got, I'll be there. I'll just be like tapping around. 206 00:12:32,520 --> 00:12:34,720 Speaker 3: I'll be checking the news, I'll be doing this doing 207 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:38,280 Speaker 3: I don't want any of that stuff cluttering my mind, 208 00:12:38,320 --> 00:12:43,120 Speaker 3: first thing, and so the only distraction that but I do. 209 00:12:43,440 --> 00:12:46,839 Speaker 3: I do like some of the functions of a smartphone, right, 210 00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:51,920 Speaker 3: like listening to music. There's a great sleep playlist that 211 00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:55,840 Speaker 3: I love on Apple Music, and Apple Music's available and androids, 212 00:12:56,880 --> 00:13:00,240 Speaker 3: and so I use this as kind of my sleep phone, 213 00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:03,400 Speaker 3: if we can call it that. This sounds kind of 214 00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:04,640 Speaker 3: pretentious to say. 215 00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:06,080 Speaker 1: That's all right, you can have a sleep phone. 216 00:13:06,520 --> 00:13:10,199 Speaker 3: Okay, all right, I got your blessing, so I'll keep 217 00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:13,240 Speaker 3: running with it. So this wakes me up. It's got 218 00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:17,560 Speaker 3: the alarm, it's got the bluetooth functionality for headphones, and 219 00:13:17,679 --> 00:13:19,600 Speaker 3: so I can read a bit first thing in the 220 00:13:19,600 --> 00:13:22,480 Speaker 3: morning if I want, But I can't really do anything else. 221 00:13:22,559 --> 00:13:26,240 Speaker 3: I have to get out of bed, and so my 222 00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:31,080 Speaker 3: routine is quite boring. I'm not gonna lie. It's quite 223 00:13:31,120 --> 00:13:34,280 Speaker 3: simple because I do so much travel for work, and 224 00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:38,679 Speaker 3: I find that when there's so much travel, I have 225 00:13:38,760 --> 00:13:42,360 Speaker 3: to reduce that morning routine to its most essential elements 226 00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:45,960 Speaker 3: so that it's portable. I can bring it on the 227 00:13:46,040 --> 00:13:49,240 Speaker 3: road with me. And there's enough travel in my life 228 00:13:49,280 --> 00:13:52,200 Speaker 3: that it disrupts most of the routines that I have 229 00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:55,360 Speaker 3: for better or for worse. Though, I kind of like 230 00:13:55,400 --> 00:13:58,520 Speaker 3: a lightweight morning routine for the flexibility. So let me 231 00:13:58,559 --> 00:14:01,880 Speaker 3: just visually. I go downstairs. Yes, I do a workout 232 00:14:01,920 --> 00:14:05,599 Speaker 3: pretty much every morning. I give myself. I have a 233 00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:09,199 Speaker 3: whole complicated kind of system where I give myself points 234 00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:12,120 Speaker 3: depending on the workout that I'm doing, so I get 235 00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:15,160 Speaker 3: a reward that I can redeem for things. I'm such 236 00:14:15,160 --> 00:14:19,520 Speaker 3: a nerd. So I do the workout this morning, for example, 237 00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:22,360 Speaker 3: I went for a run outside. Uh, then I shower, 238 00:14:22,440 --> 00:14:25,000 Speaker 3: then I eat a little something small than I just work, 239 00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:28,760 Speaker 3: And so it's simple but it's uh. I find I 240 00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:32,360 Speaker 3: have a lot of energy and a clear mind with 241 00:14:32,360 --> 00:14:35,320 Speaker 3: without my phone by my side. I see my phone 242 00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:38,360 Speaker 3: when I go into my office and it's on a 243 00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:41,200 Speaker 3: stand in here in my home office. 244 00:14:41,400 --> 00:14:43,920 Speaker 1: Gotcha. So you read a little bit, do a workout, 245 00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:45,760 Speaker 1: then start start your workday. 246 00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:48,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, I want to. I want to start my day 247 00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:56,200 Speaker 3: connecting ideas, not just consuming things. I find it really 248 00:14:56,240 --> 00:15:02,080 Speaker 3: sets my mind up differently, that that these slow mornings 249 00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:09,760 Speaker 3: lead to more deliberate days, and I love the slow 250 00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:15,760 Speaker 3: mornings more than the really fast ones. It's not always possible, obviously, 251 00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:18,280 Speaker 3: but when it is, it's nice. 252 00:15:18,680 --> 00:15:20,440 Speaker 1: So you mentioned that you're on the road a lot. 253 00:15:20,480 --> 00:15:23,560 Speaker 1: I wonder if you have a few travel tips ways 254 00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:25,840 Speaker 1: that you can keep your life running when you are 255 00:15:25,840 --> 00:15:27,560 Speaker 1: on the road, that you would like to share with 256 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:28,200 Speaker 1: our listeners. 257 00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:32,880 Speaker 3: Oh yes, okay, this is something that everybody should do 258 00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:38,320 Speaker 3: if you travel on a frequent basis, especially so one 259 00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:42,320 Speaker 3: of my favorite strategies for travel is to have a 260 00:15:42,440 --> 00:15:46,920 Speaker 3: standard packing list. So there's an app called text Expander 261 00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:49,000 Speaker 3: that I use on my computer. So what you do 262 00:15:49,080 --> 00:15:51,600 Speaker 3: is you type a little snippet of text and so 263 00:15:51,880 --> 00:15:54,880 Speaker 3: for me, it's pack list all one word, and what 264 00:15:54,960 --> 00:15:57,920 Speaker 3: that does you can you store this text anywhere? Obviously, 265 00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:03,960 Speaker 3: what it does is that prepopulates kind of a document 266 00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:09,280 Speaker 3: for everything I could possibly ever want to bring on 267 00:16:09,320 --> 00:16:16,000 Speaker 3: a trip, whether I'm traveling internationally, whether I'm traveling domestically 268 00:16:16,280 --> 00:16:20,480 Speaker 3: for personal regardless of the context. And so what I 269 00:16:20,560 --> 00:16:22,800 Speaker 3: do after that is just delete the things that I 270 00:16:22,840 --> 00:16:26,200 Speaker 3: don't need to pack, and so it kind of overcovers 271 00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:30,640 Speaker 3: what I could possibly pack. And I don't want to 272 00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:34,760 Speaker 3: jigxy okay, And I probably will by saying this, but 273 00:16:35,800 --> 00:16:40,280 Speaker 3: over the last maybe five or six years, I have 274 00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:43,680 Speaker 3: not Now it will happen, but over the last five 275 00:16:43,760 --> 00:16:47,040 Speaker 3: or six years. Yeah, I hesitate to say this, but 276 00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:50,920 Speaker 3: I have never forgotten something that I needed on a trip, 277 00:16:51,880 --> 00:16:52,560 Speaker 3: but now I will. 278 00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:56,120 Speaker 1: A great many things can be purchased in places that 279 00:16:56,160 --> 00:16:57,160 Speaker 1: you were traveling too. 280 00:16:57,240 --> 00:16:57,800 Speaker 3: That is true. 281 00:16:57,880 --> 00:17:00,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, So it's not the end of the world of 282 00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:04,040 Speaker 1: one for toothbrush or flee that is true. Anything else 283 00:17:04,760 --> 00:17:07,600 Speaker 1: could come up or exactly. 284 00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:12,320 Speaker 3: Cable organizers are another really hit. Do you have one 285 00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:12,840 Speaker 3: of these things? 286 00:17:12,840 --> 00:17:13,240 Speaker 4: No? I don't. 287 00:17:13,840 --> 00:17:17,040 Speaker 3: It's like it's a thing that you open and it 288 00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:21,200 Speaker 3: has all of the cables that you could possibly need 289 00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:26,919 Speaker 3: neatly organized into their own little pockets. And whenever I 290 00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:28,840 Speaker 3: open this it costs like twenty dollars. 291 00:17:29,119 --> 00:17:29,520 Speaker 4: I think. 292 00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:33,199 Speaker 3: Whenever I open this thing, I see it as like 293 00:17:33,240 --> 00:17:38,320 Speaker 3: this beautiful butterfly, you know, opening its wings, and there 294 00:17:38,359 --> 00:17:40,640 Speaker 3: there is the cable that I need. And everybody kind 295 00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:43,000 Speaker 3: of looks so, so, oh, what is that? Where'd you 296 00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:46,320 Speaker 3: get that thing? It's just a cable organizer. Every cable 297 00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:49,320 Speaker 3: you could possibly need fits into it. It's very cheap, 298 00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:54,400 Speaker 3: highly recommended. If your bag looks like spaghetti on the. 299 00:17:54,320 --> 00:17:57,560 Speaker 1: Inside, sounds good. Well, We're going to take one more 300 00:17:57,640 --> 00:17:59,439 Speaker 1: quick ad break and then I will be back with 301 00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:09,120 Speaker 1: a few more tips from Chris Bailey. Well, we are 302 00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:14,399 Speaker 1: back talking all things time management and productivity with Chris Bailey. So, Chris, 303 00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:17,480 Speaker 1: what is your biggest time management challenge right now? 304 00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:24,400 Speaker 3: Ooh, that's an interesting quest. I would say the pacing 305 00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:29,199 Speaker 3: of the different elements of my work. And so what 306 00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:33,360 Speaker 3: I find is that I write more clearly and more 307 00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:37,879 Speaker 3: effectively when there's a lot of space around what I'm writing. 308 00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:40,399 Speaker 3: So if I have a writing day, I can go 309 00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:44,040 Speaker 3: for walks. I can you know, just kind of wander 310 00:18:44,119 --> 00:18:48,800 Speaker 3: around town or around the house. Stuff like that. But 311 00:18:48,840 --> 00:18:52,560 Speaker 3: then you know, of course that's an ideal. Then you 312 00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:58,480 Speaker 3: have everyday life that is a much faster pace, you know, 313 00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:01,960 Speaker 3: then you kind of you know, come home, and other 314 00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:07,080 Speaker 3: elements of work too, they pull you faster, and there's 315 00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:11,040 Speaker 3: less space around those different elements. And so I find 316 00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:13,679 Speaker 3: that some projects in my day need a lot of 317 00:19:13,760 --> 00:19:17,760 Speaker 3: room to breathe, like book writing, for example. But you know, 318 00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:19,639 Speaker 3: if I look at last month when I was on 319 00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:22,680 Speaker 3: the road for quite a bit of it, there wasn't 320 00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:24,960 Speaker 3: a lot of space around the different things I had 321 00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:27,159 Speaker 3: to do. I had to be waiting for a flight, 322 00:19:27,359 --> 00:19:30,200 Speaker 3: or on the flight, or after the flight, trying to 323 00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:33,359 Speaker 3: get to the hotel. There wasn't a lot of space 324 00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:37,560 Speaker 3: around it. So I would say that some things need 325 00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:41,280 Speaker 3: room to breathe to do well, but there isn't always 326 00:19:41,359 --> 00:19:44,680 Speaker 3: that breathing room. That's probably my biggest challenge right. 327 00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:47,679 Speaker 1: Now, although I have to ask, because if you have 328 00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:51,040 Speaker 1: a writing day where you're just supposed to be writing, 329 00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:53,000 Speaker 1: and you're like, I can go for walks, I can 330 00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:56,480 Speaker 1: do all this other stuff. What prevents you only going 331 00:19:56,520 --> 00:20:00,840 Speaker 1: for walks and not actually getting around to writing the 332 00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:01,679 Speaker 1: thing in question? 333 00:20:02,920 --> 00:20:06,359 Speaker 3: The fact that I need to. I always need a 334 00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:08,880 Speaker 3: lot less time to write than I think I do, 335 00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:13,040 Speaker 3: so for me, maybe you have a different ratio. I'd 336 00:20:13,080 --> 00:20:15,240 Speaker 3: be curious to hear. But the ratio is like two 337 00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:18,760 Speaker 3: to one. So I need like two hours of wandering 338 00:20:18,840 --> 00:20:22,520 Speaker 3: time for every one hour of actual writing time. So 339 00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:26,119 Speaker 3: if I wander for you know, let's say an hour, 340 00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:28,439 Speaker 3: and write for half an hour, I can write a 341 00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:30,640 Speaker 3: lot in that half an hour of time. I don't 342 00:20:30,680 --> 00:20:33,800 Speaker 3: have to write like vigorously or in a super focused 343 00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:36,920 Speaker 3: way or anything. We'll just you know, casually crank out 344 00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:40,280 Speaker 3: maybe five hundred words in half an hour, and you know, 345 00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:44,160 Speaker 3: having thought about the structure of those words for longer. 346 00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:48,800 Speaker 3: So yeah, it's yeah, it's what do you find the 347 00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:49,439 Speaker 3: ratio is? 348 00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:53,679 Speaker 1: Well, I definitely write quickly yecause I wind up writing 349 00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:56,919 Speaker 1: a lot of different things, and so generally it doesn't 350 00:20:56,960 --> 00:21:00,280 Speaker 1: take me much time to write something if I know 351 00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:02,200 Speaker 1: what I'm going to say and I have my material 352 00:21:02,359 --> 00:21:04,120 Speaker 1: for it, and I write a rough draft and then 353 00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:06,719 Speaker 1: I have other time where I go back and make 354 00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:09,960 Speaker 1: it better. But the good news is that maybe the 355 00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:12,840 Speaker 1: going back and making it better doesn't require as much 356 00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:16,720 Speaker 1: open space. And so that's something that could fit in 357 00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:19,920 Speaker 1: in a shorter block in different things. But I will 358 00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:22,119 Speaker 1: say I like the idea of, you know, thinking about 359 00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:30,600 Speaker 1: space to breathe around certain creative working processes. And I mean, 360 00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:33,320 Speaker 1: I'm very efficient, but when I've been at the final 361 00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:36,399 Speaker 1: editing stages of certain of my book projects, I do, 362 00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:39,080 Speaker 1: in fact need to get away from my house for 363 00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:42,040 Speaker 1: a couple of days so I can just sit with 364 00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:45,600 Speaker 1: it and like experience the whole book, like read through 365 00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:48,119 Speaker 1: the whole book or see exactly what how one chapter 366 00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:51,000 Speaker 1: follows in another without pausing because something else needs to 367 00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:55,440 Speaker 1: happen in between chapters. And you know, in the life 368 00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:59,360 Speaker 1: with five kids, there's a lot of other stuff going on, 369 00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:03,359 Speaker 1: so there's not manach opportunity for the schedule to breathe, 370 00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:05,840 Speaker 1: and so I desperately need those days away when I'm 371 00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:08,560 Speaker 1: at a certain stage of it in order to get 372 00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:11,960 Speaker 1: that mental space. So yeah, I definitely see the importance 373 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:12,240 Speaker 1: of that. 374 00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:13,600 Speaker 3: Love it. 375 00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:19,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, So, Chris, I wonder if you could talk about 376 00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:22,600 Speaker 1: something you have done in this past week that has 377 00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:25,399 Speaker 1: taken a day from great to awesome. That's kind of 378 00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:28,040 Speaker 1: our tagline here at Before Breakfast. Maybe you could talk 379 00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:31,080 Speaker 1: about those exercise points you give yourself and how that 380 00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:34,160 Speaker 1: makes your your day and your workout more awesome. 381 00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:39,119 Speaker 3: Yes, yes, so I have okay, and this is gonna 382 00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:44,239 Speaker 3: expose me as the nerd that I am. But I 383 00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:48,159 Speaker 3: have this whole habit point system with my basically my 384 00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:53,399 Speaker 3: entire life, and so for any positive habit I'm developing 385 00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:57,520 Speaker 3: or want to reward myself for. So back to back 386 00:22:57,600 --> 00:22:59,160 Speaker 3: up a little bit, my wife and I we got 387 00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:02,600 Speaker 3: this spreadshet we love. She's a big data person like 388 00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:05,320 Speaker 3: I am. We have our joint budget in there. We 389 00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:07,600 Speaker 3: have our personal budgets in there. So the way we 390 00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:10,280 Speaker 3: divvy up money we have, like most of it goes 391 00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:12,040 Speaker 3: in the joint but we have a bit for the 392 00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:16,960 Speaker 3: personal stuff. And I don't allow myself access to any 393 00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:21,360 Speaker 3: of this money. But what this money becomes is a 394 00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:25,399 Speaker 3: reward for following through with the positive habits that I 395 00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:29,800 Speaker 3: want to have. So I'll give myself eight points, which 396 00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:34,560 Speaker 3: is eight dollars for sticking within my calorie allowance for 397 00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:37,720 Speaker 3: the day. I'll give myself six points for going for 398 00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:40,480 Speaker 3: a run. I'll give myself three points for getting my 399 00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:45,160 Speaker 3: daily steps in if I lift weights either that day 400 00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:47,960 Speaker 3: or three times in the last seven days, I'll get 401 00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:51,040 Speaker 3: another three points. If I weigh myself, I get a point. 402 00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:53,919 Speaker 3: If I do yoga on a day, I get two points, 403 00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:57,920 Speaker 3: And if I don't have caffeine, I get one point 404 00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:01,560 Speaker 3: because I find that that's a habit that really helps me. 405 00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:06,280 Speaker 3: And so my budget is a result of the positive 406 00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:09,399 Speaker 3: habits that I have developed, and then I can spend 407 00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:12,679 Speaker 3: it on whatever the heck I want. Usually takeout food 408 00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:15,560 Speaker 3: as kind of a counterbalance. 409 00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:17,240 Speaker 1: All within your calorie limit for the day. 410 00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:21,560 Speaker 3: Then yeah, so you get less points. So some days 411 00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:24,440 Speaker 3: you want to stock up on points, but then other 412 00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:27,560 Speaker 3: days you want to just blow right through whatever points 413 00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:31,439 Speaker 3: you've accumulated. So this is my little system habit points. 414 00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:34,840 Speaker 3: It's a nice like self reward for any behaviors that 415 00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:37,760 Speaker 3: you want to reinforce, whether it's working out, whether it's 416 00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:41,399 Speaker 3: any other habit. It's basically bribing yourself, and I do 417 00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:42,760 Speaker 3: it every single day. 418 00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:45,480 Speaker 1: That's fun. So instead of just being like, okay, my 419 00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:48,040 Speaker 1: personal budget is five hundred to six hundred dollars a 420 00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:50,040 Speaker 1: month or whatever, it's like, Okay, I'm going to earn 421 00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:52,880 Speaker 1: that by doing these little things, and then yeah, you 422 00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:54,960 Speaker 1: spend it as I as I wish to do. 423 00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:57,679 Speaker 3: That's funny you say five hundred to six because my 424 00:24:57,760 --> 00:25:00,440 Speaker 3: budget every month is five hundred and fifty dollars because 425 00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:00,800 Speaker 3: I can. 426 00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:01,760 Speaker 1: Do math in my head. 427 00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:03,480 Speaker 3: Chris, Yes, oh, look at you. 428 00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:07,119 Speaker 1: I assumed your point totals were in fact all of them, 429 00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:09,320 Speaker 1: of the things you added up, and so yes, put 430 00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:09,760 Speaker 1: it in my head. 431 00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:13,560 Speaker 3: So there I go. Whatever falls away I put towards, 432 00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:16,960 Speaker 3: you know, mortgage, the mortgage or something just something that 433 00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:19,520 Speaker 3: isn't a reward for me and is kind of boring. 434 00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:21,760 Speaker 3: Whatever I don't earn. 435 00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:25,800 Speaker 1: Excellent, Chris, Well, this has been great. Why don't you 436 00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:29,720 Speaker 1: tell our listeners where they can find you? Well, I'm 437 00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:34,560 Speaker 1: in Ottawa, show up at U door in general, Chris, 438 00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:37,120 Speaker 1: on the on the internet, in bookstores. Where can where 439 00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:38,080 Speaker 1: can we find you? 440 00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:43,320 Speaker 3: You don't want my address? Yeah, so my website is 441 00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:47,439 Speaker 3: Chris Bailey dot com. My books you've been kind of 442 00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:50,320 Speaker 3: plugged them a few times throughout this, but they're The 443 00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:54,639 Speaker 3: Productivity Project, hyper Focus and How to Calm Your Mind. 444 00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:58,280 Speaker 3: They're available in oh, I think we're in forty one 445 00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:03,400 Speaker 3: languages wherever books are, so in the language of your CHOOSINGCA, 446 00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:04,719 Speaker 3: you can have it. 447 00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:08,000 Speaker 1: Awesome. We'll be sure to check that out. Chris, thank 448 00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:10,159 Speaker 1: you so much for joining us, and thank you to 449 00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:13,199 Speaker 1: everyone for listening. I would love to have your feedback 450 00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:15,640 Speaker 1: on this interview series. Whatever you would like to hear 451 00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:19,040 Speaker 1: more about different people you'd like me to have on 452 00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:21,800 Speaker 1: that would be great. For those suggestions, you can reach 453 00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:25,840 Speaker 1: me at Laura at Laura vandercam dot com and in 454 00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:30,080 Speaker 1: the meantime, this is Laura. Thanks for listening and here's 455 00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:39,160 Speaker 1: to making the most of our time. Thanks for listening 456 00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:43,639 Speaker 1: to Before Breakfast. If you've got questions, ideas, or feedback, 457 00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:53,320 Speaker 1: you can reach me at Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. 458 00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:57,440 Speaker 1: Before Breakfast is a production of iHeartMedia. For more podcasts 459 00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:02,080 Speaker 1: from iHeartMedia, please visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or 460 00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:03,960 Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.