Speaker 1: Welcome to Criminalia, a production of Shondaland Audio in partnership
Speaker 1: with iHeartRadio. Hey, before the show starts today, we have
Speaker 1: a little bit of fun news to share.
Speaker 2: We have had a secret.
Speaker 1: We have been working very diligently for the past many
Speaker 1: months on creating something that a lot of you have
Speaker 1: been asking for, and that is a book of cocktails
Speaker 1: and cocktails that are told right alongside the stories that.
Speaker 2: We talk about, plus additional ones that we have not
Speaker 2: talked about.
Speaker 1: That's right. This book is about half stories you have heard,
Speaker 1: although they've been abridged, alongside their cocktails and brand news
Speaker 1: stories that we are telling, and brand new cocktails that
Speaker 1: we have never had before.
Speaker 2: We are on pre order now so you can order
Speaker 2: up and wait for it to hit in October.
Speaker 1: That's right. It is going to be out on October fifteenth,
Speaker 1: and you can order it now just about anywhere books
Speaker 1: are sold. Check out your local bookstores and see if
Speaker 1: they're going to have it. All right, let's jump into
Speaker 1: the episode.
Speaker 2: In the mid eighteen nineties, Harry Kramer's Sterling Remedy Company,
Speaker 2: found in Attica, Indiana, introduced a product called Cascarettes candy
Speaker 2: cathartic cascarettes were laxatives, and the product blew away its competition,
Speaker 2: and a lot of that had to do with how
Speaker 2: it was marketed, which was really a stroke of brilliance
Speaker 2: kind of. Harry advertised the product as candy, and historians
Speaker 2: believe he may have been the first to have marketed
Speaker 2: medicine in that way. They were brown tablets, so nothing
Speaker 2: special there, but they had a quote pleasant taste, almost
Speaker 2: as pleasant as chocolate. In just a few years. By
Speaker 2: eighteen ninety nine, they'd become so popular that more than
Speaker 2: five million boxes were purchased annually. Harry, an entrepreneur who
Speaker 2: was adept at advertising and maybe that's an understatement, was
Speaker 2: only thirty eight years old at the time. So let's
Speaker 2: meet this advertising sensation. Welcome to Criminalia. I'm Mariage from Markie.
Speaker 1: And I'm Holly Frye. Cascarettes were wildly successful, but they
Speaker 1: were not the first product developed and marketed through Harry's
Speaker 1: Sterling Remedy Company. We'll come back to how successful those
Speaker 1: laxatives were and why. But they may not have been
Speaker 1: so popular if he hadn't first started producing a chewing
Speaker 1: gum to help people quit smoking. Tobacco called No to Back.
Speaker 1: It was advertised to everyone, and initially no Toback was
Speaker 1: manufactured and marketed with less than one hundred dollars in capital,
Speaker 1: so that's less than the equivalent roughly of four thousand
Speaker 1: dollars today, and this product was considered the quote original
Speaker 1: guaranteed tobacco habit cure. The product tagline, which Harry Kramer
Speaker 1: wrote himself on a rented typewriter because he was not wealthy,
Speaker 1: was quote don't tobacco spit and smoke your life away.
Speaker 1: His advertising for the gum ran on a small budget,
Speaker 1: but it appeared in newspapers across the country and it
Speaker 1: brought in big results. The alleged cure built up a
Speaker 1: successful money making mail order business for Harry. No tobac
Speaker 1: contained licorice gentchen violet, which is an anti fungal and
Speaker 1: might be carcinogenic. Guayak gum. Guayak has been used as
Speaker 1: a food additive for a very long time, and possibly
Speaker 1: ammonium chloride salt, a key ingredient in Scandinavian salt licorice,
Speaker 1: unlike today's nicotine gum, which is formulated with nicotine to
Speaker 1: help you kick your cravings. No tobac would have only
Speaker 1: provided a temporary distraction from smoking cigarettes, pipes and cigars.
Speaker 1: It contained no ingredient to actually help you with your
Speaker 1: nicotine addiction. It just gave you something else to do.
Speaker 2: The success of No to Back buoyed the development and
Speaker 2: launch of Cascaretes. When it came to his products, Harry's
Speaker 2: advertising was the real success story here, and that's true
Speaker 2: for all the things he produced. According to the Saint
Speaker 2: Genevieve fair Play newspaper out of Missouri, in nineteen oh four,
Speaker 2: his daily newspaper advertising investment quote grew to over three
Speaker 2: hundred thousand dollars a year, and he has counted as
Speaker 2: one of the greatest authorities on the science of advertising
Speaker 2: in the world. His delight to see the working of
Speaker 2: the enormous advertising machine which he set in motion a
Speaker 2: few years ago, and his ambition is best illuminated by
Speaker 2: an expression made use of to a friend recently. He said,
Speaker 2: my boy, we'll get right when we make money faster
Speaker 2: than we can spend it for advertising. And that quote
Speaker 2: is Harry in a nutshell. And by the way, that
Speaker 2: three hundred thousand dollars is roughly equivalent to more than
Speaker 2: eleven million dollars in today's money.
Speaker 1: Like not to back, cascarettes were developed by Sterling Remedy Company.
Speaker 1: A cascara based laxative was absolutely not a new light
Speaker 1: bulb Idea Druggists had been prescribing it as a remedy
Speaker 1: for constipation and related ill since shortly before Harry's product
Speaker 1: hit the market, starting in roughly eighteen seventy seven. They'd
Speaker 1: also sold options such as castor oil, sasparilla, and quote
Speaker 1: fig liver syrups. Cascara came from the bark of a tree,
Speaker 1: a bitter tasting bark of a species of buckthorn tree
Speaker 1: native to the Pacific Northwest, northern California, and Idaho. The
Speaker 1: keyword there is bitter. Indigenous people living on the Pacific
Speaker 1: coast and in the Northern Rockies used it as a
Speaker 1: natural laxative, often mixed with aloe and the roots of rhubarb.
Speaker 1: By the end of the nineteenth century, buckthorn bark was
Speaker 1: being shipped out of the Pacific Northwest to pharmaceutical companies
Speaker 1: around the United States and around the world in such
Speaker 1: high quantities that it endangered the tree's survival, and a
Speaker 1: lot of that bark was going right to the factories
Speaker 1: belonging to the Sterling Remedy Company in both Chicago and
Speaker 1: New York. The company backed its product launch with a
Speaker 1: five hundred thousand dollars advertising push. It's roughly equivalent to
Speaker 1: eighteen million dollars today. Consider that number in contrast to
Speaker 1: the relatively meager capital they had backing No to back,
Speaker 1: Harry had come a very long way in a very
Speaker 1: short time, and that advertising push included incentives to retail
Speaker 1: druggists as well. By nineteen oh nine, the Neuralgelene Company
Speaker 1: purchased the Sterling Remedy Company, and by nineteen fourteen Caskeretes
Speaker 1: were also being produced in Wheeling, West Virginia. Harry, although
Speaker 1: he did not own the company anymore, remained invested until
Speaker 1: roughly nineteen eighteen.
Speaker 2: According to marketing materials from the Sterling Remedy Company and
Speaker 2: eventually also Jeline, there was a singular use for cascarettes.
Speaker 2: They were a laxative for relieving constipation the end right, Well, actually, no,
Speaker 2: We are talking about a product made and sold in
Speaker 2: a time when patent medicines were very popular, regardless of
Speaker 2: whether or not they worked as claimed. So did it
Speaker 2: work or was Harry's advertising prowess behind the success? Well both.
Speaker 2: Actually we'll talk more about bowels and marketing materials, but
Speaker 2: first we're going to take a break for a word
Speaker 2: from our sponsors, and we will meet you right back here.
Speaker 1: Welcome back to Criminalia. So did cascaretes work?
Speaker 2: Let's find out, So let's talk about efficacy first. Researchers
Speaker 2: at Memorial Sloan Kettering Hospital once declared quote, cascareicides increase
Speaker 2: intestinal motility and lead to propulsive contractions. In simple terms,
Speaker 2: that means that the ingredient moved your bowels. Cascara used
Speaker 2: to be FDA approved as an over the counter drug
Speaker 2: to relieve constipation, but in the early two thousands, though
Speaker 2: it was banned by the FDA from being sold as
Speaker 2: a drug. Modern research discovered the plant may have potentially
Speaker 2: carcinogenic properties, at least in lab rats, but they reported
Speaker 2: there was inadequate data on human toxicity and if there's ambiguity,
Speaker 2: that's enough to take a product off the shelves. In addition,
Speaker 2: their testing also didn't provide enough evidence to prove the
Speaker 2: active ingredient as a drug worked as advertised.
Speaker 1: However, legally, despite all of this, Cascara products can still
Speaker 1: be marketed as supplements. The difference between drug and supplement matters.
Speaker 1: Unlike when Harry was making in mark marketing cascaretes. Today,
Speaker 1: the FDA mandates testing and other measures of proof of
Speaker 1: an over the counter drug safety and efficacy. Dietary supplements,
Speaker 1: which the FDA treats as food rather than medicine, aren't
Speaker 1: Since the Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act of nineteen
Speaker 1: ninety four, the FDA isn't authorized to approve dietary supplements
Speaker 1: for their safety and effectiveness before they're marketed, and products
Speaker 1: can hit the shelves without the FDA even knowing about it.
Speaker 1: What that means for Cascara is that while these products
Speaker 1: aren't approved by the FDA as over the counter drugs,
Speaker 1: they may still be sold in the United States as
Speaker 1: dietary supplements or short term relief of constipation, and these
Speaker 1: supplements are available in various forms, including tea syrup, powder,
Speaker 1: or tablets.
Speaker 2: While cascara wasn't the active ingredient that was novel in
Speaker 2: this product, the idea to make the bitter bark taste
Speaker 2: LiLine candy was who would choose a bit of remedy
Speaker 2: over a sugar coated version right. The candy Cathartic was
Speaker 2: packaged in pocket sized rectangular metal boxes which contained six
Speaker 2: octagonal tablets and sold for a dime a box. Quote.
Speaker 2: You don't know until you try how much good is
Speaker 2: crowded into a little ten cent box, stated one of
Speaker 2: Harry's advertising slogans. His Caskerets would go on to become
Speaker 2: one of the most successful and booming and prosperous over
Speaker 2: the counter pharmaceuticals during a time when he was competing
Speaker 2: with many often shady and unregulated proprietary medicines that made
Speaker 2: a lot of bunk but often attractive claims.
Speaker 1: His product worked, and he was a master at letting
Speaker 1: everybody know it. Nicknamed Cascarett Kramer. From the turn of
Speaker 1: the twentieth century until about the First World War, Harry
Speaker 1: ran a massive national advertising campaign that included every American
Speaker 1: as a potential customer, men, women, old, young everyone. His
Speaker 1: biggest hits came from his campaign that targeted the candy
Speaker 1: part of the Candy Cathartic at moms and kids. Much
Speaker 1: of the marketing that Harry prepared for this particular campaign
Speaker 1: had little to do with caskeret's laxative properties, although his
Speaker 1: copy always told you what his products could do. Rather,
Speaker 1: it was the sugar coated alternative that helped the medicine
Speaker 1: go down that he really emphasized. They were a sweet
Speaker 1: substitute for the notoriously gross castor oil that was a
Speaker 1: popular go to laxative commonly administered by American mothers. Kids,
Speaker 1: he claimed wouldn't even realize they were taking medication. Quote.
Speaker 1: They are harmless and safe for the little folks, even
Speaker 1: nursing infants, his advertising claimed, would benefit if nursing moms
Speaker 1: took cascarettes.
Speaker 2: At the time when this sort of thing wasn't a thing.
Speaker 2: Harry often paid to have his longer form written advertisements
Speaker 2: run in the regular news columns of newspapers. Basically, he
Speaker 2: wrote marketing copy masquerading as health news. In the eighteen nineties,
Speaker 2: the back pages of most small town American newspapers were
Speaker 2: filled with advertisements for all kinds of patent medicines, and
Speaker 2: in addition to his fake news advertisements in the newspapers,
Speaker 2: Harry also ran small trade ads, many of which were
Speaker 2: illustrated in these back pages as well. He hit all
Speaker 2: the editorial and advertorial spots he could. Readers of the
Speaker 2: Hood River Sun in eighteen ninety nine were met with
Speaker 2: this short ad for cascarettes, and well, I say short,
Speaker 2: but this is short for Harry. Quote after eating a
Speaker 2: bloated belly, belching of gas from the stomach, a foul,
Speaker 2: ill smelling scurf on the tongue, dizziness, headache, a sour
Speaker 2: rising and spitting up of half digested food, its bowel bloat.
Speaker 2: His copy continued and continued to get more gross. Quote.
Speaker 2: When the bowels stop working, they become filled with putrid,
Speaker 2: rotting matter, forming poisonous gases that go through the whole body.
Speaker 2: If you don't have a regular natural movement of the
Speaker 2: bowels at least once a day, your fate is bowel bloat.
Speaker 2: There's only one way to set it right. Clean yourself
Speaker 2: out gently but thoroughly, and tone up your bowels with
Speaker 2: cascaretes ten cents, twenty five cents, fifty cents all druggists.
Speaker 2: Harry also promised quote to any needy mortal suffering from
Speaker 2: bowel troubles and too poor to buy cascarettes, we will
Speaker 2: send a box free address company Chicago or New York,
Speaker 2: mentioning advertisement and paper.
Speaker 1: Constipation, though, wasn't just considered infrequent bowel movements. Around the
Speaker 1: turn of the twentieth century, the American public didn't just
Speaker 1: associate it with gas and abdominal discomfort. While his product
Speaker 1: was advertised as a cure for constipation, constipation was considered
Speaker 1: to be a sort of root of all health evils,
Speaker 1: and that meant that Cascarets Candy Cathartic was actually a
Speaker 1: cure for anything and everything that was wrong with you.
Speaker 1: Cascarettes Candy Cathartic, Harry asserted in his advertising could cure everything,
Speaker 1: and the list included, of course constipation, but also unrelated
Speaker 1: complaints like heartburn, colds, bad breath, appendicitis, ulcers, eggzema, and
Speaker 1: even headaches.
Speaker 2: And more amazingly, Cascaretes stated Harry could help cure even sunstroke,
Speaker 2: a heat related illness. His advertisements claimed you could acquire
Speaker 2: because you weren't well, you weren't pooping. Specifically, one ad
Speaker 2: he wrote claimed quote, the summer's awful heat will kill
Speaker 2: those not fit to resist it, those whose bodies are
Speaker 2: full of poison because they have neglected their bowels. Dizziness, heat, headaches,
Speaker 2: six stomachs, restless nights, terrible pains, cramps in the bowels,
Speaker 2: sudden death on the street, all result from this neglect.
Speaker 2: Keep yourself clean, pure and healthy inside disinfected as it were,
Speaker 2: with cascarettes candy Cathartic, the greatest antiseptic bowel tonic ever discovered,
Speaker 2: and you will find that every form of summer disease
Speaker 2: will be effectively prevented by cascarettes candy Cathartic. Harry was persuasive,
Speaker 2: and that sudden death on the street because of constipation,
Speaker 2: I mean, yikes. Will take two boxes.
Speaker 1: On that note, we're going to take a break for
Speaker 1: a word from our sponsors, and when we're back, we'll
Speaker 1: talk about harry so called medical manifesto and the business
Speaker 1: that he got into after the success of Cascaretes.
Speaker 2: Welcome back to Criminalia. Harry's career did not end with
Speaker 2: his successful cascarettes product, and he went on to invest
Speaker 2: in mineral springs. But first, as promised, let's talk about
Speaker 2: this medical manifesto of sorts.
Speaker 1: In the April twenty fifth, nineteen oh seven edition of
Speaker 1: the Indianapolis News, Harry ran a full page ad and
Speaker 1: we have seen it referred to as his medical manifesto.
Speaker 1: And though coming from a man with no medical training whatsoever,
Speaker 1: which made us both laugh and cry, he gets into
Speaker 1: some pretty deep talk about bowels and disease for something
Speaker 1: that's technically an advertising statement. This piece was called the
Speaker 1: Curse of Constipation, and it was considered a quote warning
Speaker 1: that all should read and heed. Here's part of what
Speaker 1: Harry had to say about your bowels in the full
Speaker 1: page ad and hang in there with us because it
Speaker 1: is a little wordy quote. Constipation is in the curse
Speaker 1: of mankind. From a simple bit of carelessness, this dreadful
Speaker 1: destroyer of life gets a hold on his victim and
Speaker 1: slowly but surely tortures him to a horrible death. It
Speaker 1: is a fact that all people, at some time or
Speaker 1: another become constipated, and if the warning be not instantly
Speaker 1: heated and the system put back into working order without delay,
Speaker 1: the victim is marked for death, a long lingering one,
Speaker 1: often so disguised that no one would dream of its
Speaker 1: original cause. It is also true that nearly every disease
Speaker 1: recorded by medical science has its beginning in constipation. Yes,
Speaker 1: great learned men have said that if people would learn
Speaker 1: to keep their bowels in order, there would be no disease.
Speaker 1: Professor B. Howard Rand, the great professor of chemistry in
Speaker 1: the famous Jefferson Medical College, always said to his students,
Speaker 1: trust in God and keep your patience bowels open. Harry
Speaker 1: went on in this manifesto to describe in great detail
Speaker 1: how cascaretes quote begin to cure the moment you begin
Speaker 1: to chew them, giving tone and strength to the walls
Speaker 1: of your intestine. He continued, they gave quote, a ruddy complexion,
Speaker 1: bright eyes, clear active brain, everything that makes life worth living.
Speaker 2: Cascaretes became so well known from the heavy marketing and
Speaker 2: advertising Harry put behind the product that the brand name
Speaker 2: entered the American popular vocabulary of the time. If you
Speaker 2: were in the market for a laxative, for instance, you
Speaker 2: probably would have asked your druggist for Cascaretes rather than
Speaker 2: using the non brand word purgative or cathartic. For many consumers,
Speaker 2: the words had just become interchangeable. How the brand seeped
Speaker 2: into American culture too, is amazing. In nineteen oh four,
Speaker 2: a polo team in Anderson, Indiana, took the name Anderson Cascaretes,
Speaker 2: and in New York City night shift bank employees were
Speaker 2: nicknamed Cascaretes because they quote work while you sleep. So
Speaker 2: there's a nickname with a lot to unpack.
Speaker 1: The success of Cascaretes allowed Harry enough clout to attract
Speaker 1: investors to establish his next big thing, the Indian Mineral
Speaker 1: Springs Health Resort, which was later renamed the Hotel Madlavia
Speaker 1: near Fall Creek Gorge and Warren County, Indiana. We would
Speaker 1: be remiss if we didn't note that Harry campaigned to
Speaker 1: rename that town to Kramer, and the residents agreed. The
Speaker 1: mineral spring was discovered in eighteen eighty four by Civil
Speaker 1: War veteran Samuel's story. Samuel had suffered with severe arthritis,
Speaker 1: but he noticed his joint stiffness and pain improved when
Speaker 1: he spent time in the mud. Harry's lavish hotel capitalized
Speaker 1: on that story and offered its guests soothing mud baths.
Speaker 1: His resort, Spa all So, featured an elaborate Chinese garden
Speaker 1: in the backyard where you would find mineral waters bubbling
Speaker 1: out of the hills. Mineral waters believe to relieve a
Speaker 1: long list of bodily ailments.
Speaker 2: Doctors at the facility offered what was called a therapeutic
Speaker 2: quote magno mud cure. This treatment, which was just mud
Speaker 2: infused with water or water infused with mud, depending on
Speaker 2: who described it, was intended to relieve aching joints and muscles.
Speaker 2: Although the resorts therapies for kidneys and livers weren't as
Speaker 2: heavily advertised, those treatments provided at the spa also allegedly
Speaker 2: improved their function.
Speaker 1: The Hotel Midlavia Health Spa attracted the rich and famous,
Speaker 1: including big names of the time such as boxing champion
Speaker 1: John L. Sullivan, Indianapolis poet James Witcomb Riley, and songwriter
Speaker 1: Paul Dresser. Newspapers touted at as quote one of the
Speaker 1: finest sanitariums in the United States, and it was. It
Speaker 1: was ranked with the great mineral baths at French Lick, Indiana, Bedford, Pennsylvania,
Speaker 1: and Hot Springs, Arkansas. In advertising his health Spa, Harry
Speaker 1: very smartly made sure he placed his ads and often
Speaker 1: his face along with them, in as many small town
Speaker 1: American newspapers as he could manage, just as he did
Speaker 1: with his other products. Printer's Inc. The first American trade
Speaker 1: magazine on print advertising, declared Harry to be quote a
Speaker 1: man of almost superhuman energy. He writes his own advertisements,
Speaker 1: all of which are characterized by wonderful originality and a
Speaker 1: desire to get out of the beaten track. In fact,
Speaker 1: not only did Harry often include his own face in
Speaker 1: his advertisements, he had long included tongue in cheek illustrations
Speaker 1: that highlighted funny conversations and situations between kids and moms
Speaker 1: in his Cascarettes ads.
Speaker 2: On February twenty ninth, nineteen twenty, however, a fire that
Speaker 2: ignited in a linen closet earned Hotel Madvevia to the ground,
Speaker 2: leaving many patients, some who were afflicted with rheumatic symptoms
Speaker 2: like painful, stiff and tender joints, to barely escape with
Speaker 2: their lives. Local reports noted that more than fifty thousand
Speaker 2: dollars in jewels belonging to those patients were lost in
Speaker 2: the fire. Initially, Harry planned to rebuild, but with the
Speaker 2: discovery of penicillin in nineteen twenty eight, plus the demise
Speaker 2: of American health spas due to the Great Depression, people
Speaker 2: just couldn't afford to visit them, and he never did.
Speaker 2: Long after his death, a retirement home and restaurant were
Speaker 2: built on the site, but they too tragically burned down
Speaker 2: in nineteen seventy four.
Speaker 1: And that is Harry Lewis Kramer, who was born in Kuka, Iowa,
Speaker 1: in eighteen sixty one, and who grew up to be
Speaker 1: what historians have called one of the most energetic and
Speaker 1: revolutionary advertisers of his day. He retired in Lafayette, Indiana,
Speaker 1: and he died of a heart attack at age seventy
Speaker 1: four in nineteen thirty five. As the story goes, he
Speaker 1: was stricken while visiting the DMV. Many of us have
Speaker 1: imagined that we have passed at the.
Speaker 2: DMV, so many DMV jerkes.
Speaker 1: Would you like a little sip of something that cures
Speaker 1: what ails?
Speaker 2: You send a little sugarcoated perhaps?
Speaker 1: Uh yes. In fact, in getting particularly towards the end
Speaker 1: of Harry's story, I wanted to do something that incorporated
Speaker 1: this idea of mud and also had a chocolatey note
Speaker 1: to it, and also felt a little bit like a
Speaker 1: health drink. This involves something we have never used before
Speaker 1: on the show. I'm calling it mud Cure. Come along
Speaker 1: with me into your tin. You're shaking tin. You are
Speaker 1: going too poor. Four ounces of a vanilla protein shake
Speaker 1: like any of those little bottled kinds you get right.
Speaker 1: I actually had one that has a cake flavor to it,
Speaker 1: so you have some leeway here, because I also wanted
Speaker 1: something that was a little like a milkshake but is
Speaker 1: not as indulgent and as the healthy version. Four ounces
Speaker 1: of protein shake. Then you were gonna add about one
Speaker 1: and a half barspoons of like a hot cocoa mixed powder.
Speaker 1: If you really like chocolate, you can go up to two.
Speaker 1: If you don't like chocolate, drop it to one, but
Speaker 1: you want a little in there, an ounce and a
Speaker 1: half of tequila and a half ounce of vanilla liqueur,
Speaker 1: and then three dashes of angusterra bitters because remember cascara
Speaker 1: very bitter. I hit this with my frother first to
Speaker 1: get everything really well incorporated. Because you're working with a powder,
Speaker 1: it does incorporate pretty easily, because that's how hot chocolate
Speaker 1: powder is designed. But with the frother, it just made
Speaker 1: it really rich and creamy. So I did that, and
Speaker 1: then I shook it with ice also a little bit,
Speaker 1: and then I poured it over fresh ice and sprinkled
Speaker 1: it with a little additional hot cocoa powder as kind
Speaker 1: of a garnish. This may be one of the most
Speaker 1: dangerous drinks I've ever created, because you can't tell it
Speaker 1: there's a bunch of tequila in it.
Speaker 2: I totally want to sprinkle a little bit of like
Speaker 2: grainbow sprinkles or chocolate sprinkle on the top of it.
Speaker 1: Absolutely could. It feels like it would work, because the
Speaker 1: thing that's nice about it is it's cold and deserty,
Speaker 1: but it's not heavy like a milkshake. Would be heavier
Speaker 1: obviously than some drinks, because a protein shake has some
Speaker 1: weight to it, but it's still much lighter than what
Speaker 1: it tastes like it should be, if that makes sense.
Speaker 2: It's not ice cream.
Speaker 1: It's not ice cream, but it tastes as good as
Speaker 1: ice cream. And it is a little bit dangerous but
Speaker 1: also very refreshing. If you want to do a mocktail
Speaker 1: version of this, obviously you're not dumping tequila in it.
Speaker 1: I would do alo juice there. And if you want
Speaker 1: to keep it a little on the thicker side, I
Speaker 1: would dial back. Instead of an ounce and a half,
Speaker 1: I would go to an ounce. You can use an
Speaker 1: ounce and a half. You're just gonna have like a
Speaker 1: thinner texture and it'll be a little bit softer in
Speaker 1: flavor throughout, and then instead of vanilla liqueur, you just
Speaker 1: use a little vanilla syrup. The rest of it is
Speaker 1: the same. If you don't want to use bitterers, because
Speaker 1: some people that are absolutely zero alcohol don't, you can
Speaker 1: drop a little salt in there, or if you want
Speaker 1: to do a saline mixture, that's fine too. The mocktail
Speaker 1: is also delicious, and it feels healthy at that point
Speaker 1: because there's not much bad stuff in it at all.
Speaker 2: So I put my sprinkles on top, then it's nice.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Even the syrup is only a half ounce, it's
Speaker 1: not a lot. And if you do like a low
Speaker 1: sugar or a sugar free one, you're golden both versions.
Speaker 1: If you wanted to use in lieu of cream or
Speaker 1: milk in your coffee, delicious, great for your after dinner
Speaker 1: coffee because it's got a little mocha note. It's like
Speaker 1: I said, you can't taste that tequila, but the bitterers
Speaker 1: do something really cool where they they make it so
Speaker 1: you taste the flavors more than their sweetness, if that.
Speaker 2: Makes sense, does make sense?
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like you taste the cocoa powder rather than this
Speaker 1: tastes like a pat an envelope a packet of hot
Speaker 1: cocoa mix. You taste the chocolatey note, but it's not
Speaker 1: as heavy. That is what we're calling mud Cure this week.
Speaker 1: Yummy delicious. I don't know, I was just feeling kooky,
Speaker 1: but it's very good for you because of that protein shake.
Speaker 2: I like how it combines a couple of Harry's product interests.
Speaker 1: Yes, I'm sure Harry could market it as some sort
Speaker 1: of oh absolute healthcare. Harry cracks me up. We hope
Speaker 1: he cracks you up too. We want to thank you
Speaker 1: for hanging out with us while we talk about Harry
Speaker 1: and delicious protein shake based cocktails. We will be right
Speaker 1: back here again next week with another story of snake
Speaker 1: oil and another cocktail to go with it. Criminalia is
Speaker 1: a production of Shondaland Audio in partnership with iHeartRadio. For
Speaker 1: more podcasts from Shondaland Audio, please visit the iHeartRadio app,
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.