1 00:00:04,559 --> 00:00:07,960 Speaker 1: Hello everybody. I'm Jemma Spake and welcome back to the 2 00:00:07,960 --> 00:00:11,280 Speaker 1: Psychology of Your Twenties, the podcast where we talk through 3 00:00:11,320 --> 00:00:16,000 Speaker 1: the biggest changes, moments, and transitions of our twenties and 4 00:00:16,040 --> 00:00:25,640 Speaker 1: what they mean for our psychology. Hello everybody, Welcome back 5 00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:28,200 Speaker 1: to the show. Welcome back to the podcast. It is 6 00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:31,000 Speaker 1: so great to have you here. Let me ask you something. 7 00:00:31,760 --> 00:00:35,720 Speaker 1: Have you ever sat down to rest, like genuinely rest, 8 00:00:36,680 --> 00:00:39,239 Speaker 1: and within minutes you've just felt this dreaded sense of 9 00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:44,360 Speaker 1: guilt creeping in, Not boredom, not like, oh I should 10 00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:47,760 Speaker 1: probably do the dishes. I mean, like this sense of 11 00:00:47,800 --> 00:00:51,360 Speaker 1: like I'm doing something wrong, like I have broken a 12 00:00:51,520 --> 00:00:56,120 Speaker 1: raw here, I have stolen time, I've stolen something I 13 00:00:56,160 --> 00:00:59,920 Speaker 1: haven't paid for. What makes this so confusing? Because I know, 14 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:01,960 Speaker 1: but this is something a lot of us experience. Is like, 15 00:01:02,840 --> 00:01:05,560 Speaker 1: rest is one of the most basic human needs we have. 16 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:09,600 Speaker 1: Your brain and your body require a recovery time to 17 00:01:09,720 --> 00:01:14,319 Speaker 1: function normally. Like just like you don't deserve food or 18 00:01:14,319 --> 00:01:17,600 Speaker 1: you like don't deserve order like you need it. You 19 00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:21,080 Speaker 1: don't earn or deserve rest either, you need that too. 20 00:01:21,440 --> 00:01:25,640 Speaker 1: So why does something so necessary feel so difficult to 21 00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:29,600 Speaker 1: access without guilt. That is what we're going to get 22 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:31,840 Speaker 1: in today. I Alwao want to talk about this idea 23 00:01:31,920 --> 00:01:34,840 Speaker 1: that laziness might not even exist as we know it 24 00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:39,440 Speaker 1: and all psychological and the social processes that have conditioned 25 00:01:39,520 --> 00:01:46,360 Speaker 1: us into thinking self worth equals output and busyness equals value. 26 00:01:46,840 --> 00:01:50,080 Speaker 1: Because your guilt around resting is not a personal issue. 27 00:01:50,760 --> 00:01:54,120 Speaker 1: It's actually it's not that you're doing anything wrong. It's 28 00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:59,120 Speaker 1: there's like some crazy fascinating historical social cultural shifts that 29 00:01:59,120 --> 00:02:02,120 Speaker 1: I'm going to walk us through to explain why it 30 00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:04,360 Speaker 1: is that when you take the day off, when you 31 00:02:04,480 --> 00:02:07,240 Speaker 1: use your sick leave, when you don't do your grocery 32 00:02:07,240 --> 00:02:12,240 Speaker 1: shopping straight away, you feel so bad. So without further ado, 33 00:02:12,840 --> 00:02:22,160 Speaker 1: let's jump into it. My problem with guilt free rest, 34 00:02:22,280 --> 00:02:24,400 Speaker 1: I think became very apparent this month. I was on 35 00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:28,120 Speaker 1: a holiday with my family. This is like dream holiday, right, 36 00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:31,480 Speaker 1: We're in Stockholm, we're in Finland, where in Norway it's 37 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:35,639 Speaker 1: my mom's sixtieth birthday, like amazing mom, shout out to Melinda. 38 00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:40,520 Speaker 1: And throughout this trip I would have this urge often 39 00:02:40,560 --> 00:02:43,880 Speaker 1: around three pm to go back to our hotel, go 40 00:02:43,919 --> 00:02:46,399 Speaker 1: back to our airbnb, go back to wor wherever and 41 00:02:47,600 --> 00:02:51,080 Speaker 1: work and like I'm gonna I even did it a 42 00:02:51,080 --> 00:02:53,720 Speaker 1: few times. I was like I made an excuse and 43 00:02:53,760 --> 00:02:56,880 Speaker 1: I went home to work, and my family was a 44 00:02:56,919 --> 00:02:58,720 Speaker 1: little bit like what the fuck, Gemma, Like you're not 45 00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:03,000 Speaker 1: You're not saving, Like nobody urgently needs an Instagram post 46 00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:05,960 Speaker 1: at four pm on a Saturday, nobody needs an updated 47 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:09,400 Speaker 1: episode description at nine pm on a Monday. But it 48 00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:14,080 Speaker 1: was this impulse. I couldn't settle for the day until 49 00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:18,840 Speaker 1: I'd done something productive, like this terrible itch that wasn't leaving. 50 00:03:19,880 --> 00:03:23,240 Speaker 1: I think younger me would have been very quick to 51 00:03:23,240 --> 00:03:25,480 Speaker 1: tell you that, like, I just really like working hard, 52 00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:28,640 Speaker 1: and I love to work, and it's like in my DNA, 53 00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:33,680 Speaker 1: But I didn't particularly like not being there for family events, 54 00:03:33,720 --> 00:03:36,160 Speaker 1: and I didn't particularly like feeling like I was missing 55 00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:39,480 Speaker 1: out or not making memories. So why was I doing it? 56 00:03:39,600 --> 00:03:41,640 Speaker 1: That's I think always a question we have to ask 57 00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:45,120 Speaker 1: ourselves at different points, at points like this, like why 58 00:03:45,360 --> 00:03:47,480 Speaker 1: do we do things we don't want to do when 59 00:03:47,480 --> 00:03:49,720 Speaker 1: we don't have to? Why do we feel like we 60 00:03:49,800 --> 00:03:54,880 Speaker 1: have to? So let's start by discussing what's going on here. Firstly, 61 00:03:55,360 --> 00:03:58,360 Speaker 1: what is our cultural obsession with productivity because this is 62 00:03:58,440 --> 00:04:02,320 Speaker 1: like this here is the root cause one of the 63 00:04:02,320 --> 00:04:07,000 Speaker 1: biggest reasons why and how rest became this luxury of 64 00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:11,400 Speaker 1: this thing to feel guilty about. Basically, I think happened 65 00:04:11,440 --> 00:04:15,760 Speaker 1: when time stopped being something that we moved through and 66 00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:19,920 Speaker 1: we experienced, and it started being something that you spent 67 00:04:20,760 --> 00:04:24,359 Speaker 1: and you used. For most of human history, daily life was, 68 00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:32,200 Speaker 1: you know, largely organized around tasks, seasons, sunlight, community, natural rhythms, 69 00:04:33,440 --> 00:04:40,440 Speaker 1: work and productivity like expanded and kind of lessened based 70 00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:43,240 Speaker 1: on what the community needed and the season. If your 71 00:04:43,279 --> 00:04:47,719 Speaker 1: needs were fulfilled, you rested. There was no guilt attached 72 00:04:47,720 --> 00:04:50,760 Speaker 1: to that. Guilt, we have to remember, is a social, 73 00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:54,880 Speaker 1: but more importantly moral emotion. It derives mainly from social 74 00:04:54,960 --> 00:04:57,320 Speaker 1: attitudes or other people kind of telling you that you're 75 00:04:57,360 --> 00:05:00,280 Speaker 1: doing something wrong. It doesn't just come up nat truly 76 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:05,040 Speaker 1: without social influence or narratives about good and bad. So 77 00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:09,360 Speaker 1: what exactly from then to now has changed our social attitude? 78 00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:12,400 Speaker 1: We have to fast forward to the Industrial Revolution mainly, 79 00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:16,479 Speaker 1: and this is so interesting to think about, when clocks 80 00:05:16,680 --> 00:05:20,480 Speaker 1: started to enter the workplace. Feels weird to say, but honestly, 81 00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:24,720 Speaker 1: that was a major shift. The historian ep Thompson. He 82 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:29,400 Speaker 1: wrote about this in a very classic piece on industrial capitalism. 83 00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:32,960 Speaker 1: It's this very famous paper, and he basically says, when 84 00:05:33,040 --> 00:05:36,520 Speaker 1: clocks were introduced into factories and into workplaces, that is 85 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:40,240 Speaker 1: when stuff went downhill. They were used to enforce discipline. 86 00:05:40,279 --> 00:05:45,599 Speaker 1: They were used to enforce higher output, to basically coordinate 87 00:05:45,640 --> 00:05:48,440 Speaker 1: the movements of the workers and the machines, but also 88 00:05:48,520 --> 00:05:51,960 Speaker 1: to keep track of how many hours somebody was being 89 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:58,480 Speaker 1: paid for. Rather than output lateness idleness. They were then 90 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:01,640 Speaker 1: treated as an economic like if you were late for work, 91 00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:04,040 Speaker 1: you were just late for work because you know, if 92 00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:06,400 Speaker 1: somebody was sick like you, that was a productivity issue. 93 00:06:06,400 --> 00:06:10,560 Speaker 1: There was money being lost based on your choices. Once 94 00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:14,120 Speaker 1: time is measured in that way, we basically as a 95 00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:16,920 Speaker 1: society begin to learn that there is always some kind 96 00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:21,320 Speaker 1: of cost to rest or to not working that you know, 97 00:06:21,680 --> 00:06:25,480 Speaker 1: that's time not being spent properly, and we might lose 98 00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:28,279 Speaker 1: out if we're not on the go all the time. 99 00:06:29,160 --> 00:06:32,719 Speaker 1: There is kind of a further social cultural element to 100 00:06:32,760 --> 00:06:36,159 Speaker 1: that to why we panic with not being busy enough 101 00:06:36,279 --> 00:06:39,880 Speaker 1: or occupied by tasks, And I think that element is 102 00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:42,640 Speaker 1: that not being busy means we could be out of 103 00:06:42,640 --> 00:06:46,120 Speaker 1: a job means that there isn't enough work to go around, 104 00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:50,400 Speaker 1: means that you are not worth the cost to an employer. Actually, 105 00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:53,920 Speaker 1: you know, looking back culturally, if you lost out on work, 106 00:06:53,960 --> 00:06:57,120 Speaker 1: if you chose not to work like you were generally 107 00:06:57,200 --> 00:07:00,800 Speaker 1: viewed pretty harshly. You were stigmatized for not doing so, 108 00:07:00,960 --> 00:07:03,200 Speaker 1: and you would suffer like your family wouldn't eat. There 109 00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:06,560 Speaker 1: wasn't as much social security, so on a huge scale. 110 00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:09,080 Speaker 1: And I know this is a psychology podcast, but to 111 00:07:09,080 --> 00:07:14,480 Speaker 1: get historical like this, our entire structure towards work and 112 00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:21,920 Speaker 1: productivity and perceive responsibility shifted. It shifted from doing what 113 00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:27,280 Speaker 1: was needed to doing everything in excess and what was 114 00:07:27,480 --> 00:07:31,640 Speaker 1: required from you. And suddenly it's also the individual's problem. 115 00:07:32,120 --> 00:07:34,480 Speaker 1: If work is not being done and money is not 116 00:07:34,600 --> 00:07:38,720 Speaker 1: being made, like that's a stressful burden. If we move 117 00:07:38,760 --> 00:07:41,480 Speaker 1: forward to modern day, you know, we now have unions, 118 00:07:41,560 --> 00:07:44,760 Speaker 1: we have more adequate workers' rights in a lot of countries. 119 00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:47,600 Speaker 1: You know, a lot of places have weekends off. Holiday 120 00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:51,920 Speaker 1: pay is another example. But what we now have that 121 00:07:52,080 --> 00:07:54,840 Speaker 1: wasn't around back then. There's still contributing to this is 122 00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:58,360 Speaker 1: online platforms like LinkedIn and social media, and they are 123 00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:01,240 Speaker 1: a huge contributor to why you feel bad about resting. 124 00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:04,600 Speaker 1: What do we do when we have five minutes in 125 00:08:04,640 --> 00:08:07,800 Speaker 1: between meetings, five minutes in between appointments, five minutes whilst 126 00:08:07,840 --> 00:08:10,400 Speaker 1: our past to boils, We pick up our phones and 127 00:08:10,440 --> 00:08:13,640 Speaker 1: we scroll, and in that moment we can potentially see 128 00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:18,480 Speaker 1: dozens of other people doing more than us. And this 129 00:08:18,560 --> 00:08:22,400 Speaker 1: creates competition with how we use our time. And where 130 00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:24,680 Speaker 1: there is competition, you know there are winners and there 131 00:08:24,680 --> 00:08:28,840 Speaker 1: are losers. There were people with greater status and people 132 00:08:28,960 --> 00:08:33,640 Speaker 1: with lower status. I think I'm going to explaining this 133 00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:40,400 Speaker 1: a little bit better. More so than ever, busyness psychologically 134 00:08:40,559 --> 00:08:44,320 Speaker 1: has become a status symbol. There is research suggesting that 135 00:08:44,840 --> 00:08:49,000 Speaker 1: in the US in particular, social perception is such that 136 00:08:49,120 --> 00:08:52,480 Speaker 1: being busy and having little leisure time now means that 137 00:08:52,520 --> 00:08:54,680 Speaker 1: you were important. It used to me that mean that 138 00:08:54,720 --> 00:08:57,760 Speaker 1: the more leisure time you had, the less like the 139 00:08:57,760 --> 00:08:59,680 Speaker 1: more important you were, basically because you could afford to 140 00:08:59,679 --> 00:09:03,800 Speaker 1: not work. Now it shows that you're in demand, that 141 00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:09,040 Speaker 1: you're needed. Being busy is the equivalent to having a 142 00:09:09,080 --> 00:09:14,640 Speaker 1: designer handbag or a BMW longer hours, less free time. Again, 143 00:09:14,840 --> 00:09:19,520 Speaker 1: it conveys social importance. This is as twisted as it sounds, 144 00:09:19,520 --> 00:09:23,000 Speaker 1: because it's like only a particular kind of busyness, right 145 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:26,400 Speaker 1: there's only a particular kind of grind and hustle that's glamorized. 146 00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:30,120 Speaker 1: People working three jobs to support their kids, People doing 147 00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:35,600 Speaker 1: fourteen hour factory shifts like that is not glamorized. The 148 00:09:35,640 --> 00:09:39,400 Speaker 1: way that a CEO jet sitting around the country is 149 00:09:39,880 --> 00:09:43,560 Speaker 1: so nowadays, like we have this shift, and your phone 150 00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:47,040 Speaker 1: is constantly showing that narrative directly into your face and 151 00:09:47,080 --> 00:09:50,240 Speaker 1: into your life at all times, even if you don't 152 00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:51,920 Speaker 1: think it is. Even if you think you're not picking 153 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:55,240 Speaker 1: up on this message, even when you're not actively thinking 154 00:09:55,360 --> 00:09:58,760 Speaker 1: that you're comparing yourself to others online, your brain is 155 00:09:58,840 --> 00:10:01,520 Speaker 1: naturally going to do it. Your brain is collecting information 156 00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:05,520 Speaker 1: on those who are achieving the image, their progress, the 157 00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:09,080 Speaker 1: praise they're getting, and what is considered impressive right now, 158 00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:13,800 Speaker 1: and this influences your self perception and therefore your attitude 159 00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:18,080 Speaker 1: towards rest. Even if you're not someone who thinks of 160 00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:21,040 Speaker 1: yourself as competitive. Modern life is set up in a 161 00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:24,160 Speaker 1: way that pushes you into competition even when you didn't 162 00:10:24,160 --> 00:10:27,520 Speaker 1: really choose to be there. That is what is happening. 163 00:10:28,040 --> 00:10:31,600 Speaker 1: So let's switch gears here for a second. There's also 164 00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:33,760 Speaker 1: this other element that we need to talk about that 165 00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:40,760 Speaker 1: makes rest feel bad, and it's the again hyper competitive 166 00:10:40,840 --> 00:10:46,000 Speaker 1: hamster wheel of the workplace and of op opportunity. And 167 00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:49,000 Speaker 1: if you're in your twenties, you felt it, this idea 168 00:10:49,040 --> 00:10:52,839 Speaker 1: of like, oh my goodness, I better work really hard. 169 00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:56,400 Speaker 1: I cannot switch off because if I do, I'm going 170 00:10:56,440 --> 00:10:59,280 Speaker 1: to fall behind. There aren't as many opportunities as there 171 00:10:59,320 --> 00:11:02,080 Speaker 1: were twenty years. I got to be the one who 172 00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:06,040 Speaker 1: gets that. You know, the people who are enduring this 173 00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:09,400 Speaker 1: the most, the sense of competition and this reduction in 174 00:11:09,640 --> 00:11:13,800 Speaker 1: jobs and this limited opportunities is twenty and thirty somethings. 175 00:11:14,400 --> 00:11:17,199 Speaker 1: He's a scary fact. A scary fact from an international 176 00:11:17,240 --> 00:11:20,160 Speaker 1: well being study published out of Canada found that the 177 00:11:20,160 --> 00:11:23,520 Speaker 1: most burnt out generation and the most stress generation about 178 00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:27,320 Speaker 1: the future as eighteen to thirty four year olds, ninety 179 00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:30,520 Speaker 1: eight percent of them are reporting at least one symptom 180 00:11:30,640 --> 00:11:36,200 Speaker 1: of burnout. Two two percent of us are not burnt out. 181 00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:39,880 Speaker 1: The whole system is building us to make it's billing 182 00:11:39,960 --> 00:11:43,080 Speaker 1: us to make us productive and to make us output machines, 183 00:11:43,280 --> 00:11:46,559 Speaker 1: which is so ironic because a major push behind the 184 00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:49,120 Speaker 1: rise of AI, which is something that's making us so stressed, 185 00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:52,160 Speaker 1: and the rise of technology, was that it was meant 186 00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:54,680 Speaker 1: to give us more free time and was meant to 187 00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:58,640 Speaker 1: make our lives easier and more accessible, and you know, 188 00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:01,360 Speaker 1: give us time off. So why don't we have a 189 00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:04,480 Speaker 1: for our work week? You know? Why is everybody even 190 00:12:04,520 --> 00:12:07,320 Speaker 1: more stressed about getting a head and about getting stuff done. 191 00:12:08,120 --> 00:12:10,520 Speaker 1: I feel like it doesn't matter how much free time 192 00:12:10,559 --> 00:12:14,160 Speaker 1: you have available at this stage, the guilt doesn't go 193 00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:16,760 Speaker 1: away because it feels like the opportunities are getting smaller 194 00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:20,400 Speaker 1: and smaller. And that's what's at the base of all 195 00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:23,679 Speaker 1: of this. We resist actually resting because it makes us 196 00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:28,640 Speaker 1: feel uncomfortable from a survival lens. If all your life 197 00:12:28,679 --> 00:12:31,960 Speaker 1: you have been taught that opportunities are fragile, that progress 198 00:12:32,040 --> 00:12:34,679 Speaker 1: is really easy to lose, that you're only allowed to 199 00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:39,280 Speaker 1: feel calm when you're ahead, then rest actually feels more 200 00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:43,080 Speaker 1: dangerous than restorative, Like that's a huge psychological risk, like 201 00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:46,400 Speaker 1: switch up, like putting you It honestly feels like sometimes 202 00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:48,520 Speaker 1: when you rest these days, it's like putting your bag 203 00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:51,640 Speaker 1: down in a crowded place, and like hoping nobody's gonna 204 00:12:51,640 --> 00:12:53,720 Speaker 1: take it. That's what it feels like. Rest feels like 205 00:12:53,760 --> 00:12:57,640 Speaker 1: giving somebody else an opportunity. Maybe on a more fundamental 206 00:12:57,720 --> 00:13:02,000 Speaker 1: level as well. I think it's because again, it's about survival. 207 00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:05,920 Speaker 1: It's about survival and about the sense of like not 208 00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:10,520 Speaker 1: dropping the ball. And then as we've worked harder and 209 00:13:10,640 --> 00:13:14,600 Speaker 1: rested less, our lives have become emptier. We've ignored a 210 00:13:14,600 --> 00:13:18,520 Speaker 1: lot of stuff that we probably needed to address. How 211 00:13:18,559 --> 00:13:21,560 Speaker 1: we've kind of learned that being busy is a form 212 00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:25,040 Speaker 1: of emotional regulation. It stops us from having to do 213 00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:29,640 Speaker 1: the uncomfortable inner work that comes with learning to be 214 00:13:29,800 --> 00:13:32,760 Speaker 1: truly content with who you are and comes with learning 215 00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:37,520 Speaker 1: to slow down. And it's deeply psychological here that the 216 00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:42,240 Speaker 1: social cultural like these social changes have pushed us into 217 00:13:42,280 --> 00:13:46,199 Speaker 1: such a hypervigilant stress state that we literally see rest 218 00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:50,959 Speaker 1: as a threat, and we also see it as as 219 00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:54,000 Speaker 1: something that's going to be really like emotionally revealing, so 220 00:13:54,040 --> 00:13:57,160 Speaker 1: we avoid it. I think if this resonates with you, 221 00:13:57,240 --> 00:14:00,280 Speaker 1: it's likely that you've been on this high alert for 222 00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:03,720 Speaker 1: a long time and that you are filling your time 223 00:14:04,920 --> 00:14:12,280 Speaker 1: with busyness to keep up a sense of functioning so really, again, 224 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:18,400 Speaker 1: this is all coming down to discomfort and how rest 225 00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:22,000 Speaker 1: is going to allow your mind to relax enough to 226 00:14:22,080 --> 00:14:26,640 Speaker 1: maybe question some of these life choices, question the system, 227 00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:30,240 Speaker 1: and also let the anxiety start to creep in because 228 00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:34,160 Speaker 1: things get a little bit calmer. So planning and monitoring 229 00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:39,600 Speaker 1: and not taking holidays and not taking sickly gives you 230 00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:42,280 Speaker 1: something to focus on, which is a lot more pleasant 231 00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:46,479 Speaker 1: than thinking about bad experiences or thinking about how exhausted 232 00:14:46,520 --> 00:14:50,240 Speaker 1: you are, or thinking about how uncomfortable this is. Rest 233 00:14:50,760 --> 00:14:55,320 Speaker 1: removes that coping mechanism that has been building up for 234 00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:58,080 Speaker 1: a while, that has been holding you together. So the 235 00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:01,400 Speaker 1: moment you slow down, like, there's a lot that's gonna 236 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:04,320 Speaker 1: come with it. There's a lot of memories, worst case scenarios, 237 00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:08,680 Speaker 1: this vague sense of dread that's gonna crop up. And 238 00:15:08,720 --> 00:15:11,520 Speaker 1: that is the guilt. That is literally the guilt that 239 00:15:11,560 --> 00:15:13,960 Speaker 1: we are explaining right now. And if every time you 240 00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:18,520 Speaker 1: experience guilt when you rest, you're going to learn through association, 241 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:22,000 Speaker 1: purely through association, like that this is a dangerous thing. 242 00:15:22,040 --> 00:15:26,280 Speaker 1: And so without even realizing, through this associative learning, you're 243 00:15:26,280 --> 00:15:29,480 Speaker 1: going to avoid it even more. Okay, we're going to 244 00:15:29,560 --> 00:15:32,320 Speaker 1: take a short break here. But after this short break, 245 00:15:32,360 --> 00:15:36,360 Speaker 1: we're going to explore the real dangerous of this narrative 246 00:15:36,640 --> 00:15:40,960 Speaker 1: and how we can start to unlearn these toxic, harmful 247 00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:44,240 Speaker 1: thoughts about rest that we have been sold and we 248 00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:51,480 Speaker 1: have been told, so stay with us. I kind of 249 00:15:51,480 --> 00:15:53,600 Speaker 1: feel the need to remind us at this point that 250 00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:57,720 Speaker 1: rest is literally a biological requirement, the same way that 251 00:15:57,760 --> 00:16:01,400 Speaker 1: food and water is a biological requirement. Cannot deprive yourself 252 00:16:01,440 --> 00:16:04,040 Speaker 1: of that. You can push through for a while, you 253 00:16:04,080 --> 00:16:08,160 Speaker 1: can negotiate your way out of needing rest and needing recovery, 254 00:16:08,320 --> 00:16:13,600 Speaker 1: you cannot outrun it. It's just not possible. Sleep is 255 00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:15,720 Speaker 1: like one of the clearest examples we have of this. 256 00:16:15,840 --> 00:16:19,240 Speaker 1: It's so measurable, so researchers often focus on it as 257 00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:22,440 Speaker 1: a way of measuring rest. Obviously, that's not the only 258 00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:24,840 Speaker 1: way to rest, but research is at the center of 259 00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:28,800 Speaker 1: sleep and respiratory neurobiology. At the University of Pennsylvania, they 260 00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:33,400 Speaker 1: conducted a chronic sleep restriction experiment with forty eight participants 261 00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:37,560 Speaker 1: aged twenty one to thirty eight, and they basically put 262 00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:40,600 Speaker 1: them in these different conditions where they either restricted rest 263 00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:44,920 Speaker 1: and sleep to eight hours six hours or four hours, 264 00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:49,400 Speaker 1: and this was maintained for two weeks. Then the people 265 00:16:49,440 --> 00:16:53,920 Speaker 1: either didn't get any sleep for three days or they 266 00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:57,040 Speaker 1: were allowed to sleep for three days. Honestly, at that 267 00:16:57,080 --> 00:17:00,200 Speaker 1: point I'd probably be hallucinating, So I hope these subjects 268 00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:03,920 Speaker 1: got paid some cash. But what they found was that 269 00:17:03,960 --> 00:17:06,879 Speaker 1: those who had either four or six hours of sleep 270 00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:11,920 Speaker 1: a night, their cognitive performance day after day got so bad, 271 00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:14,919 Speaker 1: to the point where their level of impairment was the 272 00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:20,679 Speaker 1: same as being drunk, as if they against you multiple beers, 273 00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:24,159 Speaker 1: multiple glasses of wine. The scary part is that people 274 00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:27,040 Speaker 1: often a lot of these people were like, I don't 275 00:17:27,080 --> 00:17:30,440 Speaker 1: feel any different. So they walk around and they think, cool, 276 00:17:30,440 --> 00:17:33,439 Speaker 1: it's okay for me to drive, and I'm paying attention 277 00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:36,760 Speaker 1: at work, and I'm paying attention in class, and I'm 278 00:17:36,760 --> 00:17:41,080 Speaker 1: making good decisions, and they're just not because they haven't 279 00:17:41,119 --> 00:17:44,520 Speaker 1: restored their minds. And again, this is exactly what participants 280 00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:47,840 Speaker 1: in this study also reported. They found that those who 281 00:17:47,880 --> 00:17:52,879 Speaker 1: slept for six hours or less were also kind of 282 00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:57,320 Speaker 1: experiencing this as well. And you remember those people who 283 00:17:57,320 --> 00:18:00,760 Speaker 1: didn't sleep for three days. The cumulat of effect of 284 00:18:00,840 --> 00:18:04,720 Speaker 1: sleeping six hours or less five four hours for two 285 00:18:04,800 --> 00:18:10,159 Speaker 1: weeks and not sleeping at all for two days was 286 00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:16,160 Speaker 1: the same. So that I'm fine feeling a is a lie. 287 00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:19,600 Speaker 1: You're not fine. You need to rest. It's also a 288 00:18:19,640 --> 00:18:24,480 Speaker 1: way of us allowing this habit of like pushing rest 289 00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:27,439 Speaker 1: down to continue. If you don't feel dramatically worse, you 290 00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:30,320 Speaker 1: assume you can keep going and going. But what, of course, 291 00:18:30,359 --> 00:18:32,840 Speaker 1: like studies like this is showing us, is that you 292 00:18:32,920 --> 00:18:35,920 Speaker 1: are just pushing the like the problem further down the line, 293 00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:38,440 Speaker 1: and you've got to pay. You're to pay the sleep 294 00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:40,560 Speaker 1: debt eventually. You've got to pay your sleep tax, your 295 00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:45,360 Speaker 1: rest tax eventually. Now, sleep is like the ultimate form 296 00:18:45,359 --> 00:18:48,959 Speaker 1: of rest. It's like it's like an emergency maintenance. It's 297 00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:51,920 Speaker 1: emergency maintenance for your brain. It's consistent maintenance for your 298 00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:57,320 Speaker 1: brain to clear out clutter, to restore itself from damage, 299 00:18:57,440 --> 00:19:01,320 Speaker 1: to store memories. And we have a whole episode on 300 00:19:01,359 --> 00:19:04,960 Speaker 1: the psychology of sleep if you're interested. But there's also 301 00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:09,240 Speaker 1: more broader rest that's needed in your life. Resting, if 302 00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:11,280 Speaker 1: you want a definition, is like when you don't have 303 00:19:11,320 --> 00:19:13,760 Speaker 1: to fix your attention on anything, when your body can 304 00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:16,600 Speaker 1: unclench and you're not in a state of vigilance or 305 00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:19,160 Speaker 1: hyper vigilance. When you are in a state of vigilance, 306 00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:21,080 Speaker 1: you are not resting. When you're in a state of 307 00:19:21,119 --> 00:19:24,919 Speaker 1: alert and attention, you are not resting. That is the 308 00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:26,719 Speaker 1: state that I'd say the majority of us are in 309 00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:29,560 Speaker 1: all the time. So when you work for long stretches, 310 00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:34,680 Speaker 1: especially on cognitively demanding tasks, you are spending natural reserves 311 00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:38,919 Speaker 1: that have built up over time. Of you build like 312 00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:42,480 Speaker 1: you're using your natural reserves of attentional control, working memory, 313 00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:47,840 Speaker 1: emotional regulation, you are taking taking you're going to hit zero. 314 00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:53,359 Speaker 1: Those systems get tied, they get way less efficient. That 315 00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:56,360 Speaker 1: is why you consider your laptop for an extra two 316 00:19:56,440 --> 00:19:58,879 Speaker 1: hours and get less done than when you first started 317 00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:01,600 Speaker 1: in twenty minutes or if you were to come back, 318 00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:05,240 Speaker 1: you know, the next day at twenty twenty two. I 319 00:20:05,240 --> 00:20:08,840 Speaker 1: think meta analysis that looked at taking micro breaks and 320 00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:12,399 Speaker 1: micro rests throughout the day actually found that this is 321 00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:13,760 Speaker 1: one of the best things you can do for your 322 00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:17,399 Speaker 1: well being. It's going to make you feel so much better, 323 00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:21,359 Speaker 1: less fatigued, more vigorous. Doing thirty minutes on of work 324 00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:24,359 Speaker 1: ten minutes off, doing an hour on twenty minutes off 325 00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:29,480 Speaker 1: works so well for our brains because it gives us 326 00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:34,440 Speaker 1: these microdoses of rest that it needs. Your brain is calling, begging, 327 00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:38,840 Speaker 1: asking you to give it a break. It was not 328 00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:41,199 Speaker 1: made to sit and stare at a screen for five hours. 329 00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:43,399 Speaker 1: It was not made to sit and look at an 330 00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:47,280 Speaker 1: Excel spreadsheet for five hours or Canva for five hours. 331 00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:53,720 Speaker 1: If you rest, you actually make yourself smarter in a 332 00:20:53,840 --> 00:20:56,280 Speaker 1: very specific way. And I think this is the important thing, 333 00:20:56,359 --> 00:20:59,200 Speaker 1: because half the reason we don't rest, and we don't 334 00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:02,040 Speaker 1: take breaks and whatever is because we again think we're 335 00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:05,119 Speaker 1: gonna fall behind, we think we're gonna get less done, 336 00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:07,600 Speaker 1: we think we're going to be less efficient. What I'm 337 00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:09,040 Speaker 1: going to say to you is that if you want 338 00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:14,080 Speaker 1: to be smarter almost immediately, you have to counterintuitively rest more. 339 00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:17,080 Speaker 1: And that might sound like a lie outside like a 340 00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:21,800 Speaker 1: fast might sound fake. There is so much evidence to this, 341 00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:24,800 Speaker 1: it's like honestly ridiculous that people don't talk about it more. 342 00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:26,399 Speaker 1: This is the best example I can give. Have you 343 00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:28,960 Speaker 1: ever been stuck on a problem and then you go 344 00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:31,879 Speaker 1: a shower, you go walk, you know, do something unrelated, 345 00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:35,600 Speaker 1: and like the answer basically pops into your head. That 346 00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:38,639 Speaker 1: is a documented effect. That is what rest does for you. 347 00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:42,960 Speaker 1: Researchers in a two thousand and nine paper found what 348 00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:46,640 Speaker 1: they call a positive incubation effect when you step away 349 00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:48,960 Speaker 1: from a problem, when you let your brain rest and 350 00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:51,280 Speaker 1: then you come back, because it allows you to have 351 00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:56,200 Speaker 1: more open ended, creative thinking. You will literally waste less 352 00:21:56,240 --> 00:22:00,320 Speaker 1: time by taking time away. You will be able to 353 00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:05,600 Speaker 1: like rejuvenate cognitively by not forcing your body and your 354 00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:09,000 Speaker 1: mind to do these long stretches of productivity. Like that 355 00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:12,399 Speaker 1: is one of the easiest and most counterintuitive life hacks 356 00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:16,639 Speaker 1: you could try today and you would see results. And 357 00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:19,480 Speaker 1: I think most people won't do it because it seems 358 00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:22,199 Speaker 1: so contrary to what we've been taught about hard work. 359 00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:24,919 Speaker 1: So the big question we've kind of been running up 360 00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:27,639 Speaker 1: to this whole time, this whole episode you were me, 361 00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:30,480 Speaker 1: is how do we actually do it. We know it's 362 00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:32,600 Speaker 1: important to rest, we can tell it's going to make 363 00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:35,560 Speaker 1: us smarter. How do we stop the guilt the guilt 364 00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:40,400 Speaker 1: from coming in. I have four key shifts for you, 365 00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:45,760 Speaker 1: starting with this one. Stop treating rest like it's a reward. 366 00:22:46,359 --> 00:22:48,920 Speaker 1: When you treat it like it's a reward, you put 367 00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:50,919 Speaker 1: it at the mercy of your mood and your to 368 00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:54,000 Speaker 1: do list. Your to do list is designed to win. 369 00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:59,160 Speaker 1: It's literally endless. If you're a long time overworker, high 370 00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:03,720 Speaker 1: achiever TIPE, you will always find something to do. I 371 00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:07,439 Speaker 1: know people like you. I am somebody like you. You 372 00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:09,280 Speaker 1: will always find something to even if it is the 373 00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:13,919 Speaker 1: stupidest thing ever, like clean tupperware, or suddenly decide you're 374 00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:15,720 Speaker 1: gonna do your taxes. If you have an empty space, 375 00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:17,600 Speaker 1: you're gonna take it and you're gonna do something productive 376 00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:20,280 Speaker 1: with it. We can think of it as an asset. 377 00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:24,600 Speaker 1: We can think that it's great, like sometimes it's not. 378 00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:28,520 Speaker 1: The first tip is to start treating rest not as 379 00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:31,000 Speaker 1: a reward, but as an investment in the future and 380 00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:34,720 Speaker 1: in future you. If you treat rest as an investment, 381 00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:37,760 Speaker 1: like putting money away in a savings account every single week, 382 00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:41,200 Speaker 1: it becomes part of how you run your life. I 383 00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:45,480 Speaker 1: say investment because I think the brains of high achievers. 384 00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:48,320 Speaker 1: Overachievers like that language more and how you speak about 385 00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:53,960 Speaker 1: rest is important. Language towards rest matters. I think in 386 00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:59,439 Speaker 1: minimizing guilt initially because it cognitively reframes its importance to 387 00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:02,520 Speaker 1: you at the beginning as I don't know it sounds bad, 388 00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:05,919 Speaker 1: but as a productivity additive. Almost so if you're just 389 00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:10,040 Speaker 1: trying to firstly just rest without feeling guilty, Yes, you 390 00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:13,400 Speaker 1: can think about it not as reward. You can also 391 00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:15,200 Speaker 1: think about it as an investment in you, and that 392 00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:19,960 Speaker 1: I think changes your emotions towards it. It's not something 393 00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:22,199 Speaker 1: you do when you're good enough. It's not something you 394 00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:25,520 Speaker 1: do because you deserve it. You do it because it's 395 00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:29,240 Speaker 1: like maintenance. You are building a successful life. It is 396 00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:34,359 Speaker 1: a non negotiable. It is a smart non negotiable. The 397 00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:38,080 Speaker 1: second cognitive shift is to think of rest as being 398 00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:42,000 Speaker 1: as natural as the seasons. When you rest, you are 399 00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:45,080 Speaker 1: honoring the small winters of your life, and you can't 400 00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:47,720 Speaker 1: have the summers and the springs without the winters. Rest 401 00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:51,159 Speaker 1: is as important as the seasons are to earth, and 402 00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:54,520 Speaker 1: you're part of Earth. And feeling that that it's really 403 00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:57,680 Speaker 1: sinking into how natural it is to honor that and 404 00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:00,320 Speaker 1: to honor the system and to not disturb the system 405 00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:03,600 Speaker 1: by honoring the seasons of life has like really helped me, 406 00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:07,800 Speaker 1: I think in such an important way. Basically, how I've 407 00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:10,240 Speaker 1: started to think of it as that some parts of life, 408 00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:12,679 Speaker 1: like I said, a summer, there are going to be 409 00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:15,720 Speaker 1: natural seasons where I grow, I expand, I am full 410 00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:18,000 Speaker 1: of light and energy. I am up all the time 411 00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:22,159 Speaker 1: this autumn. That's like the shedding the spring. That's the work. 412 00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:24,840 Speaker 1: And you have to have the winters. You have to 413 00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:30,879 Speaker 1: have periods of hibernation and rest and just preparing for 414 00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:35,480 Speaker 1: the next season. Every single cycle in your life requires 415 00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:40,480 Speaker 1: a winter. You require consolidation, you require rest to be 416 00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:42,840 Speaker 1: able to keep going. The problem is is that we 417 00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:47,199 Speaker 1: often demand summer output across all seasons, especially in our 418 00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:50,239 Speaker 1: winter seasons. And I'm not actually talking about seasons here, 419 00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:52,679 Speaker 1: I'm talking metaphorically. But you know, we treat ourselves like 420 00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:54,879 Speaker 1: a machine where the setting is going to stay the 421 00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:57,760 Speaker 1: same the whole year round. Humans simply do not work 422 00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:00,760 Speaker 1: like that. Like the cycles that the bath operates on 423 00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:04,200 Speaker 1: and that you operate on are incredibly important and designed 424 00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:09,880 Speaker 1: to make you the best version of yourself and designed 425 00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:13,080 Speaker 1: to be the system that you work on. Just because 426 00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:15,560 Speaker 1: you have stuff to do, it doesn't mean you can 427 00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:19,960 Speaker 1: override nature, and it doesn't mean you can override your 428 00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:24,960 Speaker 1: natural settings. So if you want your physical health, your 429 00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:29,040 Speaker 1: mental health to be great, to be amazing, your cognitive 430 00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:31,680 Speaker 1: health to be amazing, you have to acknowledge that there 431 00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:34,919 Speaker 1: are so many factors that are going to contribute to 432 00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:38,240 Speaker 1: when you are going to be forced to rest and 433 00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:40,399 Speaker 1: when you are going to be able to be productive. 434 00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:44,760 Speaker 1: You will be more productive if you follow what is 435 00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:48,040 Speaker 1: it like naturally set for your humanness and what is 436 00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:51,480 Speaker 1: naturally set for your body and for your mind. Now 437 00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:54,040 Speaker 1: here is the un sexy part that makes all of 438 00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:58,719 Speaker 1: this actionable. Throughout all this these tips, you actually need 439 00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:01,040 Speaker 1: to start scheduling rest. Like I said, like it's a 440 00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:05,439 Speaker 1: non negotiable. You cannot wait for it to naturally happen 441 00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:08,480 Speaker 1: because you'll usually end up resting when you're sick. So 442 00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:14,880 Speaker 1: it's just about recovery, not about like deep nourishment. I 443 00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:17,000 Speaker 1: want you to look at your to do list right now, 444 00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:18,840 Speaker 1: and I want you to look at your diary, and 445 00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:23,800 Speaker 1: I want you to plan one day a week, one 446 00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:26,880 Speaker 1: afternoon a week where you don't do anything as your 447 00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:29,840 Speaker 1: scheduled rest day. I like to do this thing with 448 00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:32,159 Speaker 1: my friends on Sunday mornings called the Dillydali. This is 449 00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:35,639 Speaker 1: my rest. This is how I really restore my mind. 450 00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:39,040 Speaker 1: And like allow, I hate saying the word alloud, but 451 00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:42,399 Speaker 1: like help myself get into it where me and my 452 00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:47,120 Speaker 1: friends I live for my Dillydally days. We all get 453 00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:50,440 Speaker 1: together on a Sunday. We pick each other up, phones down, 454 00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:53,040 Speaker 1: and we just potter along. We go to the markets, 455 00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:55,200 Speaker 1: we get a coffee, we walk around the grocery store. 456 00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:58,040 Speaker 1: When we come together, like we don't have any plans. 457 00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:02,919 Speaker 1: We don't have any plans, don't have any agenda. We 458 00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:04,680 Speaker 1: just get to do what whatever want. We deally and 459 00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:07,240 Speaker 1: we dally and that's non negotiable for me. And I 460 00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:10,000 Speaker 1: used to not have those things in my diary. I 461 00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:12,080 Speaker 1: used to want to keep as much time open to 462 00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:14,920 Speaker 1: be productive and to work and to do the podcast 463 00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:17,600 Speaker 1: and whatever. And like now I know that that is 464 00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:20,040 Speaker 1: an investment. That is my time. That is something that 465 00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:23,920 Speaker 1: I do for myself. The final tip of the day, 466 00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:29,560 Speaker 1: I actually have some homework for you. You can schedule rest, 467 00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:32,119 Speaker 1: we can do all these things. But there is an 468 00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:34,560 Speaker 1: expert on this who I just think is incredible. And 469 00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:36,760 Speaker 1: it's a book I'm putting on the psychology. If you're 470 00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:40,320 Speaker 1: a twenty syllabus called laziness does not exist. And this 471 00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:42,960 Speaker 1: is a concept that I want us to get like 472 00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:46,280 Speaker 1: drill into our brain. This is a book by Devin Price. 473 00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:51,120 Speaker 1: It was gifted to me ironically by my family, so 474 00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:55,360 Speaker 1: they were definitely trying to send me some not so 475 00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:59,560 Speaker 1: subtle hints. But I adored this book, and I adored 476 00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:02,160 Speaker 1: the theme, and there was one section of it that 477 00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:06,000 Speaker 1: stood out to me, which is that calling someone lazy 478 00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:10,680 Speaker 1: or calling yourself lazy, is a moral judgment, not a diagnosis, 479 00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:15,000 Speaker 1: and moral judgments social judgments change. It is a socially 480 00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:18,840 Speaker 1: constructed insult that is applied selectively. This is what this 481 00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:22,560 Speaker 1: author says. He's like, when you call somebody lazy, we 482 00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:25,920 Speaker 1: apply that selectively to disabled people, chronically ill people, and 483 00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:29,000 Speaker 1: you're a divergent people, poor people, and marginalized groups. When 484 00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:34,400 Speaker 1: you know, when they resist overwork, when they remember their limits, 485 00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:39,440 Speaker 1: like before we were talking about this, you know, expectations 486 00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:47,720 Speaker 1: around productivity. Productivity are deeply unequal. Like when somebody who's 487 00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:51,720 Speaker 1: rich and famous works really hard, we're like, hustler, so good, 488 00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:55,520 Speaker 1: Like they're so motivated. When somebody who's poor works really hard, 489 00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:57,760 Speaker 1: it's like you, why are you neglecting your children? Like 490 00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:01,080 Speaker 1: what is wrong with you? Some people are praised for 491 00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:06,400 Speaker 1: rest and for having boundaries. Others are punished for the 492 00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:10,080 Speaker 1: same behaviors. The myth of laziness that I want to 493 00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:12,880 Speaker 1: finish on is basically like this is a tool to 494 00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:16,120 Speaker 1: make people feel bad in order to reward others and 495 00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:19,600 Speaker 1: in order to work harder for others. When you separate 496 00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:23,160 Speaker 1: yourself from those narratives, when you realize laziness doesn't exist, 497 00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:26,160 Speaker 1: that's just a moral judgment, you get to live life 498 00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:31,040 Speaker 1: the way it was really intended, honoring the winters, honoring 499 00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:37,560 Speaker 1: the downtimes, just doing what is needed and not excess 500 00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:40,240 Speaker 1: stuff that isn't And in that way, you really experience 501 00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:43,920 Speaker 1: human productivity in a much more nourishing way, in a 502 00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:47,640 Speaker 1: way that is sustainable. Sure you might have less output, 503 00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:52,200 Speaker 1: Sure you might lose the competitive edge, but when you 504 00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:54,520 Speaker 1: shift into this mindset, like the things that you were 505 00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:57,959 Speaker 1: competing for don't, you don't really care anymore because you realize, like, 506 00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:00,480 Speaker 1: if I had to give up all that makes human 507 00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:03,240 Speaker 1: for this and all that was enjoyable to have this, 508 00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:06,719 Speaker 1: what's the point. I work so hard so I can 509 00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:09,120 Speaker 1: have an enjoyable life. But if I didn't work hard 510 00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:12,280 Speaker 1: right now, I'd have an enjoyable life. Anyways, Like, that's 511 00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:14,000 Speaker 1: really the thing I want to end on. That's what 512 00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:16,640 Speaker 1: I'm hoping you take away from this episode, Like, the 513 00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:22,240 Speaker 1: guilt you feel may not feel optional right now, but 514 00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:27,240 Speaker 1: it is entirely socially conditioned. You have no reason to 515 00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:29,800 Speaker 1: feel guilty for rest. Your ancestors didn't feel guilty for 516 00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:32,320 Speaker 1: us because they knew it was necessary. It doesn't make 517 00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:35,320 Speaker 1: you a bad person. It is also not suddenly going 518 00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:37,640 Speaker 1: to undo hours and hours of hard work. They got 519 00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:40,640 Speaker 1: some moan biles, like best Athlete of all Time. She 520 00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:42,600 Speaker 1: literally took two years off and she came back and 521 00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:44,760 Speaker 1: won a bunch of gold medals, like it is an 522 00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:48,640 Speaker 1: essential ingredient that you cannot neglect, and it is something 523 00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:51,239 Speaker 1: that I think really incredible. Successful people have learned how 524 00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:53,760 Speaker 1: to master and learn how to honor. You need to 525 00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:55,800 Speaker 1: be one of those people. So if you've made it 526 00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:58,800 Speaker 1: this far, thank you for sticking around. You have made 527 00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:01,040 Speaker 1: it to our secret path of the episode, where I 528 00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:03,560 Speaker 1: give you an emoji to comment below to prove that 529 00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:05,840 Speaker 1: you made it to the end. Our emoji for today 530 00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:09,160 Speaker 1: is a little cloud. I think that's a nice rest symbol. 531 00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:13,240 Speaker 1: I appreciate you listening to the whole episode. I hope 532 00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:15,800 Speaker 1: the message rings loud and clear in your mind. The 533 00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:18,480 Speaker 1: next time you want to take a day off, the 534 00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:21,280 Speaker 1: next time you find yourself sitting on the couch with 535 00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:25,760 Speaker 1: nothing to do, here is your permission slip. You are 536 00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:28,880 Speaker 1: allowed to do that. As always, thank you to our 537 00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:32,760 Speaker 1: researcher Libby Colbert for her contributions to this episode. She 538 00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:36,760 Speaker 1: is incredible and until next time, stay safe behind, be 539 00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:39,920 Speaker 1: gentle to yourself. We will talk very very soon.