1 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:17,800 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece. How does a beautiful young woman, 2 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:23,360 Speaker 1: a singer songwriter working multiple jobs, go for a walk 3 00:00:23,360 --> 00:00:29,280 Speaker 1: with her dog and end up brutally stabbed dead? Right now, 4 00:00:29,760 --> 00:00:34,360 Speaker 1: no answers to the mystery surrounding the death of beautiful 5 00:00:34,680 --> 00:00:51,559 Speaker 1: Katie Janis Crime Stories with Nancy Greece. I want you 6 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:54,840 Speaker 1: to hear part of what we have become privy to. 7 00:00:55,640 --> 00:01:00,440 Speaker 1: This is part of the nine one one call. Take 8 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:23,200 Speaker 1: a listen to our cut one Tyler Rolette operator. What think? Yeah, 9 00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:35,960 Speaker 1: we help? Please you get your name. We're going to 10 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:38,560 Speaker 1: play more of that nine on one call, but I 11 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:42,080 Speaker 1: wanted you to hear that first because a lot of 12 00:01:42,120 --> 00:01:47,800 Speaker 1: aspersions have been thrown around about the roommate, the partner 13 00:01:48,240 --> 00:01:53,840 Speaker 1: of Katie, Jennie finding the body. I don't go along 14 00:01:53,880 --> 00:01:55,960 Speaker 1: with that. I think we need to be looking for 15 00:01:56,080 --> 00:02:01,160 Speaker 1: the right person, the real killer. And you're gonna understand 16 00:02:01,320 --> 00:02:03,800 Speaker 1: what I'm talking about in just one moment. In the 17 00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:05,680 Speaker 1: middle of all this, there is talk of a so 18 00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:11,320 Speaker 1: called serial killer. To muddy the waters. There is another 19 00:02:12,040 --> 00:02:17,720 Speaker 1: young girl found dead about twenty miles away, also murdered 20 00:02:18,080 --> 00:02:22,080 Speaker 1: in a public park the very same night. Are the 21 00:02:22,160 --> 00:02:25,600 Speaker 1: two connected I say no. Let me introduce to you 22 00:02:25,639 --> 00:02:27,720 Speaker 1: an all star panel to help break it down and 23 00:02:27,760 --> 00:02:30,840 Speaker 1: put it back together again. First of all, an attorney 24 00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:33,440 Speaker 1: you know him well, he practices all over the country. 25 00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:37,840 Speaker 1: Daryl Cohen joining us, former prosecutor in this jurisdiction, now 26 00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:42,880 Speaker 1: defense attorney. Renowned psychiatrists joining us out of Atlanta. Doctor ANGELA. Arnold, 27 00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:48,560 Speaker 1: a specialist in not only this area, but many others. 28 00:02:48,639 --> 00:02:54,040 Speaker 1: Also with me, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University. Joe Scott Morgan, 29 00:02:54,120 --> 00:02:56,520 Speaker 1: author of Blood Beneath My Feet and the star of 30 00:02:56,520 --> 00:03:01,760 Speaker 1: a brand new series of Piketon Massacre on iHeart. Cheryl McCollum, 31 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:04,400 Speaker 1: and boy do we need a forensic expert? Founder director 32 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:07,000 Speaker 1: of the Coldcase Research Institute. You can find her at 33 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:11,440 Speaker 1: Coldcase Crimes dot org. But first to Michael Sidon Special 34 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:15,520 Speaker 1: guests joining us from WSBTV on Twitter. You can find 35 00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:21,520 Speaker 1: him at sidon WSBT. Michael, A lot of people are 36 00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:25,560 Speaker 1: throwing stones at the victim because she was out late 37 00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:30,280 Speaker 1: that night walking her dog, Bowie. But the reality is, 38 00:03:30,400 --> 00:03:33,120 Speaker 1: you know, Michael, when I was working in the DA's office, 39 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:38,600 Speaker 1: I lived about three blocks from this murder, and many 40 00:03:38,640 --> 00:03:41,280 Speaker 1: a time I would work very late at the courthouse 41 00:03:41,640 --> 00:03:44,720 Speaker 1: and then go out to jog or walk. Yeah, it 42 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:47,760 Speaker 1: sounds crazy now, but at the time I didn't think 43 00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:51,080 Speaker 1: anything of it, and I don't like the victim being 44 00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:53,200 Speaker 1: dragged through the mud. And I also want to point out, 45 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:56,880 Speaker 1: is it true, Michael Sidon that not only was Katie 46 00:03:56,960 --> 00:04:00,920 Speaker 1: Janis brutally stab dead right there and Pete part but 47 00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:04,360 Speaker 1: her dog was stamped too. Yeah, you know, Nancy, this 48 00:04:04,400 --> 00:04:07,960 Speaker 1: is a expanous murder that we have going. And in fact, 49 00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:10,640 Speaker 1: last week actually got a chance to speak with Katie 50 00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:15,160 Speaker 1: Jenness's partner, Emma Clark, who made that gruesome discovery, and 51 00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:17,280 Speaker 1: she even talked about how she's had to deal with 52 00:04:17,320 --> 00:04:21,240 Speaker 1: it on social media and people pointing a finger possibly 53 00:04:21,279 --> 00:04:24,080 Speaker 1: at her and also hearing the criticism. But you have 54 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:26,440 Speaker 1: to understands you you're familiar with this area, but for 55 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:30,320 Speaker 1: your listeners who aren't familiar with Atlanta, this is in 56 00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:32,560 Speaker 1: the heart of the city, Piedmont Park. So this is 57 00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:34,520 Speaker 1: if you live in the city, this is your green space. 58 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:36,920 Speaker 1: You don't have a big backyard, you can run around 59 00:04:37,120 --> 00:04:40,600 Speaker 1: like somebody in the suburbs, So it's not unusual. You know. 60 00:04:40,640 --> 00:04:42,440 Speaker 1: I've got a number of co workers who live near 61 00:04:42,480 --> 00:04:43,920 Speaker 1: that park. They told me when they get off the 62 00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:46,960 Speaker 1: work late at night, they go for walks. Obviously you 63 00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:51,480 Speaker 1: stay vigilant, but this again is just so so brutal. 64 00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:55,080 Speaker 1: And you talk about the injuries that were found at 65 00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:56,960 Speaker 1: the scene. I mean, first you have forty year old 66 00:04:57,040 --> 00:05:00,320 Speaker 1: Katie Jenness, she was left disfigured, and then the dog 67 00:05:00,360 --> 00:05:05,880 Speaker 1: Bowie of phit bull as well, and just so so awful. 68 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:09,520 Speaker 1: And again, this has really shaken up that entire community. 69 00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:13,400 Speaker 1: It's a very vibrant LGBTQ community. Oh on, just a 70 00:05:13,520 --> 00:05:15,120 Speaker 1: moment right there. I want to talk to you about 71 00:05:15,160 --> 00:05:18,280 Speaker 1: something you said she was less disfigured. But I want 72 00:05:18,279 --> 00:05:21,760 Speaker 1: to go into the thinking of the crime, because that's 73 00:05:21,760 --> 00:05:24,880 Speaker 1: how it's going to get solved. Who would take the 74 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:29,479 Speaker 1: time and be motivated to also stab the dog dead? 75 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:35,200 Speaker 1: That is actually Michael Sidon. Very very rare. This part 76 00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:39,279 Speaker 1: is used by families with children. I have run this part, 77 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:42,000 Speaker 1: I guess Jackie have run this part a million times 78 00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:46,159 Speaker 1: during the decade plus time I was at the District 79 00:05:46,240 --> 00:05:50,320 Speaker 1: Attorney's office, and then before that with the fans, I 80 00:05:50,360 --> 00:05:52,760 Speaker 1: would run that part two or three times a day. 81 00:05:53,880 --> 00:05:57,480 Speaker 1: So it's not just her out with her dog. There 82 00:05:57,480 --> 00:06:00,840 Speaker 1: as families out there. There's children out there. And not 83 00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:06,600 Speaker 1: only that, it is directly adjacent to the single most 84 00:06:06,640 --> 00:06:10,920 Speaker 1: exclusive country club in the city of Atlanta, the Piedmont 85 00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:16,640 Speaker 1: Driving Club. So everybody needs to be on board with 86 00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:22,640 Speaker 1: finding this gorgeous young woman's killer. Now my question to you, 87 00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:26,960 Speaker 1: Michael Sign, you use the word disfigure it. Why did 88 00:06:26,960 --> 00:06:30,159 Speaker 1: you say that when you have police coming out and 89 00:06:30,279 --> 00:06:35,240 Speaker 1: basically calling this an unusual and unique crime that Atlanta 90 00:06:35,279 --> 00:06:38,400 Speaker 1: has never experienced. Again, those are the words from the 91 00:06:38,480 --> 00:06:41,839 Speaker 1: deputy chief at the Atlanta Police Department who has been 92 00:06:41,880 --> 00:06:44,839 Speaker 1: working with the homicide detectives. Not to mention you bring 93 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:47,760 Speaker 1: in the FBI. As you know as a former prosecutor, 94 00:06:47,960 --> 00:06:51,120 Speaker 1: you don't bring the FBI, and just for a city murder. 95 00:06:51,640 --> 00:06:54,360 Speaker 1: This is something truly who done it? But this is 96 00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:59,120 Speaker 1: something when they found the body, it was so gruesome, 97 00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:03,880 Speaker 1: the and the injury that were left behind. Okay, I 98 00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:07,920 Speaker 1: got you, Daryl Cohen joining me former prosecutor along with 99 00:07:07,960 --> 00:07:11,520 Speaker 1: me in this jurisdiction where the body has been found. 100 00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:15,120 Speaker 1: It's not that far from the courthouse. And as I said, 101 00:07:15,200 --> 00:07:19,200 Speaker 1: Daryl Cohen, I'm sure you're familiar with penn Avenue. I 102 00:07:19,240 --> 00:07:22,960 Speaker 1: lived about three blocks or where Katie has been butchered, 103 00:07:23,960 --> 00:07:28,040 Speaker 1: and my now husband lived about seven blocks from where 104 00:07:28,280 --> 00:07:33,440 Speaker 1: Katie is butchered. And they're turning this, Daryl Cohen into 105 00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:37,520 Speaker 1: she was jogging at night with her dog, So what 106 00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:40,600 Speaker 1: if she was, that does not in any way indicate 107 00:07:40,640 --> 00:07:43,680 Speaker 1: this as her fault. And Daryl another thing. I started 108 00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:47,400 Speaker 1: getting floods of texts, Hey, Katie's case has been solved. 109 00:07:47,640 --> 00:07:53,040 Speaker 1: It was the girlfriend. It's not the girlfriend. Wife found 110 00:07:53,120 --> 00:07:57,800 Speaker 1: the body because she used the phone app whereas my iPhone, 111 00:07:58,360 --> 00:08:01,320 Speaker 1: and it led her to the body. She is in 112 00:08:01,400 --> 00:08:05,080 Speaker 1: no way implicated in this, Gerald Cohen, Let's talk about 113 00:08:05,080 --> 00:08:09,520 Speaker 1: the fact that Michael signed WSBTV joining us today says 114 00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:12,560 Speaker 1: that she was quote disfigured, and cops are saying they 115 00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:16,720 Speaker 1: haven't seen anything like it. That tells me a lot 116 00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:20,720 Speaker 1: about the gruesome factor of this murder. Well, Nancy, I'm 117 00:08:20,840 --> 00:08:24,000 Speaker 1: very familiar. I actually went to Grady High as a 118 00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:28,320 Speaker 1: student store alleged, and I'm very familiar with being my 119 00:08:28,520 --> 00:08:33,200 Speaker 1: park area and grew up in Annesley Park, actually in 120 00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:36,360 Speaker 1: Sherwood Forrest next to Annesley Park. But let me say 121 00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:39,320 Speaker 1: that I think there are two separate issues that we have. No, 122 00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:44,320 Speaker 1: she's a victim. It was not her partner, her roommate. 123 00:08:44,440 --> 00:08:46,880 Speaker 1: It was her as a victim. But I think we 124 00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:49,760 Speaker 1: also have to say there's not one, but two issues. 125 00:08:50,040 --> 00:08:55,880 Speaker 1: The first issue is stay safe, stay safe, don't do 126 00:08:56,160 --> 00:08:59,720 Speaker 1: dumb things. She obviously thought she had her dog who 127 00:08:59,800 --> 00:09:03,000 Speaker 1: was pit bull, who would protect her, and she wasn't worried. 128 00:09:03,360 --> 00:09:07,040 Speaker 1: But everybody needs to be concerned. What's a wonderful part 129 00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:11,080 Speaker 1: during the day, during the daylight hours is not necessarily, 130 00:09:11,120 --> 00:09:13,960 Speaker 1: as we have found out, a safe place to be. 131 00:09:14,480 --> 00:09:17,120 Speaker 1: But this is the type of slashing. The amount of 132 00:09:17,160 --> 00:09:21,000 Speaker 1: times that she was stabbed, it is something that we 133 00:09:21,080 --> 00:09:25,440 Speaker 1: don't know. I personally believe it was somebody at random 134 00:09:25,520 --> 00:09:28,600 Speaker 1: who was vicious, who was going to kill her, or 135 00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:31,640 Speaker 1: maybe whoever happened to be there and had to kill 136 00:09:31,720 --> 00:09:34,880 Speaker 1: the dog, because as we've been pointed out, it is 137 00:09:34,920 --> 00:09:38,319 Speaker 1: a pitbull who probably would have attacked or tried to 138 00:09:38,360 --> 00:09:41,360 Speaker 1: attack the killer. So there are all sorts of issues, 139 00:09:41,600 --> 00:09:43,920 Speaker 1: and the fact that the FBI is there is a 140 00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:46,160 Speaker 1: great thing, not a bad thing. You know, that's a 141 00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:49,280 Speaker 1: really good point. You brought up, Darryl Cohen about killing 142 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:51,800 Speaker 1: the dog because it would be it would have attacked 143 00:09:51,840 --> 00:10:07,679 Speaker 1: the killer crime stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we are 144 00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:12,080 Speaker 1: talking about a beautiful young woman now dead, and what 145 00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:14,400 Speaker 1: cops are saying is one of the single most gruesome 146 00:10:14,559 --> 00:10:17,800 Speaker 1: scenes they've seen and that they quote have never seen 147 00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:20,800 Speaker 1: anything like it. And I'm telling you right now, I 148 00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:25,280 Speaker 1: have seen so many homicide crime scenes bodies at the morgue. 149 00:10:25,640 --> 00:10:28,120 Speaker 1: For a cop to say this stabbing is unlike anything 150 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:32,280 Speaker 1: we've seen, it must be really bad. I plays you 151 00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:34,480 Speaker 1: part of the original nine one one call. Let's take 152 00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:37,079 Speaker 1: a listen to more from that. When I kick off 153 00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:38,880 Speaker 1: a jury try, one of the first things I try 154 00:10:38,920 --> 00:10:41,000 Speaker 1: to do is play the nine one one call because 155 00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:43,520 Speaker 1: it takes you to the scene, to the time of 156 00:10:43,640 --> 00:10:47,640 Speaker 1: the murder, and you can learn so much. So, Tyler, 157 00:10:47,920 --> 00:10:50,400 Speaker 1: let's roll our cut two and listen to more of 158 00:10:50,440 --> 00:11:17,880 Speaker 1: that nine one one call. What I please like yeah, 159 00:11:19,080 --> 00:11:23,600 Speaker 1: all right? Please? Oh my god. It seems like she 160 00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:32,280 Speaker 1: said dead like radio okay please. You can hear the 161 00:11:32,400 --> 00:11:35,160 Speaker 1: distress in her voice, the pain and the suffering and 162 00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:39,920 Speaker 1: the shock of finding Katie Janis stabbed dead and what 163 00:11:39,960 --> 00:11:44,160 Speaker 1: we believe to have been a horrible and brutal crime scene. 164 00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:46,920 Speaker 1: I want to point out something that has just happened 165 00:11:47,240 --> 00:11:50,960 Speaker 1: in the last hours. We learned that. I hope you're 166 00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:52,959 Speaker 1: sitting down for this. You may need to lay down. 167 00:11:53,840 --> 00:11:58,280 Speaker 1: The cameras in the park were installed according to my 168 00:11:58,360 --> 00:12:05,040 Speaker 1: research in two thousand and eight wait for it, and 169 00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:09,040 Speaker 1: are now out of mode. Nobody can pull up the 170 00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:12,840 Speaker 1: pictures or the video on the cameras because it doesn't 171 00:12:12,880 --> 00:12:19,200 Speaker 1: synk with modern day technology. What the HBL has the 172 00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:23,079 Speaker 1: government been thinking about the city of Atlanta. They did 173 00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:26,360 Speaker 1: an assessment in about twenty seventeen. They knew the cameras 174 00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:31,720 Speaker 1: were not working. Therefore, we have no video of what happened. 175 00:12:31,920 --> 00:12:36,520 Speaker 1: No steel shots. Now that's bad enough. But we do have, however, 176 00:12:36,920 --> 00:12:40,400 Speaker 1: and I've looked at them very very carefully. Are steel 177 00:12:40,480 --> 00:12:44,720 Speaker 1: shots of the red light right there near where Katie's 178 00:12:44,720 --> 00:12:48,960 Speaker 1: body was found at the entrance of Piedmont Park and 179 00:12:49,679 --> 00:12:55,079 Speaker 1: right now several I think witnesses have been identified. Michael 180 00:12:55,120 --> 00:12:57,760 Speaker 1: Siden joining me from WSBTV. I made a little flow 181 00:12:57,880 --> 00:13:02,959 Speaker 1: chart the witness says, I believe potential witnesses, and I've 182 00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:05,920 Speaker 1: ruled out almost all of them. One a group of 183 00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:09,360 Speaker 1: women around eleven fifty five PM. It's not a group 184 00:13:09,400 --> 00:13:14,080 Speaker 1: of women that doesn't fit into any statistical analysis as 185 00:13:14,080 --> 00:13:17,320 Speaker 1: to who the method and assessment of homicide. It's not them. 186 00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:21,760 Speaker 1: Twelve o nine. We actually see Katie Janis walking her 187 00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:26,520 Speaker 1: dog Bowie across that intersection at Tip Street. Twelve twenty five. 188 00:13:26,679 --> 00:13:29,920 Speaker 1: A man with a cane looking at his phone, hobbling away. 189 00:13:30,559 --> 00:13:34,040 Speaker 1: It's not him. Twelve forty three. I've got this one starred. 190 00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:38,880 Speaker 1: You see a person with a hoodie walking away potential 191 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:43,320 Speaker 1: twelve forty six. You see a jogger going in and 192 00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:47,200 Speaker 1: out in a blue jogging suit, and I believe he 193 00:13:47,240 --> 00:13:51,360 Speaker 1: has come forward and spoken to police. Seemingly, all of 194 00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:55,440 Speaker 1: these people seem to be unaware they're walking by a 195 00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:59,480 Speaker 1: murder scene. To him, Michael Sidon, the reality is all 196 00:13:59,480 --> 00:14:02,640 Speaker 1: the camera us in the park are outdated, they don't work, 197 00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:07,080 Speaker 1: and this is just one entrance to an open park. 198 00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:09,800 Speaker 1: I never went through the entrance when I would run there, 199 00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:12,160 Speaker 1: I'd just be walking along the street, get on the 200 00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:14,559 Speaker 1: sidewalk and walk in. There's not a fence around it. 201 00:14:14,880 --> 00:14:18,200 Speaker 1: So this red light video it's not really helping me. 202 00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:22,680 Speaker 1: What's so frustrating for the family and friends of this victim. Right, 203 00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:27,360 Speaker 1: you mentioned nine cameras inside Piedmont Park. They have not 204 00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:31,119 Speaker 1: been working since two thousand and eight. They're not integrated 205 00:14:31,160 --> 00:14:33,200 Speaker 1: on the city system. Now it may come as a 206 00:14:33,280 --> 00:14:36,640 Speaker 1: surprise to some people, but most of the parks in 207 00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:40,680 Speaker 1: Atlanta don't have cameras, and this is something now that 208 00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:43,480 Speaker 1: the city is pushing for. But obviously it's too late. 209 00:14:43,480 --> 00:14:45,360 Speaker 1: And you can imagine, you know what, Michael Side and 210 00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:49,040 Speaker 1: I know you're just the messenger and we don't use 211 00:14:49,080 --> 00:14:52,680 Speaker 1: this word at home, but just shut up. Okay, no offense. 212 00:14:52,720 --> 00:14:57,040 Speaker 1: But now they want to add cameras. Are you serious? 213 00:14:57,600 --> 00:15:00,200 Speaker 1: Now that Kay has been butchered up like she's at 214 00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:03,800 Speaker 1: the butcher's shop, now they want to add cameras, Michael Sidon, 215 00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:08,560 Speaker 1: Isn't it true? An assessment was done in twenty seventeen 216 00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:11,440 Speaker 1: on the cameras the city knew they weren't working. Isn't 217 00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:14,120 Speaker 1: that true? It's true. They did the assessment in twenty seventeen, 218 00:15:14,160 --> 00:15:17,200 Speaker 1: and even to this moment right now, Nancy, the city 219 00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:19,800 Speaker 1: still has not come on the record and said that 220 00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:23,080 Speaker 1: the cameras didn't record, but everybody knows that they didn't. 221 00:15:23,080 --> 00:15:25,800 Speaker 1: They claimed that they're reaching out to the vendors to 222 00:15:25,840 --> 00:15:29,600 Speaker 1: see if they were rolling. But again, there has been 223 00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:33,640 Speaker 1: no video evidence, no still photos, nothing that shows that 224 00:15:33,720 --> 00:15:36,960 Speaker 1: any of the cameras were working. It's an obsolete technology. 225 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:40,040 Speaker 1: The cameras were not working on the night of Michael. 226 00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:42,040 Speaker 1: Not that it's going to help me solve this case, 227 00:15:42,080 --> 00:15:46,360 Speaker 1: but who can we fire over this in a public 228 00:15:46,440 --> 00:15:52,120 Speaker 1: park where there are families, children, single ladies out there 229 00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:55,440 Speaker 1: jogging and walking. I've been one of them, and they 230 00:15:55,480 --> 00:15:58,480 Speaker 1: don't have us protected. Why am I paying taxes to 231 00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:01,960 Speaker 1: these people? Why if they can't even make the camera's 232 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:05,520 Speaker 1: work for Pete's sake. Now back to the little bit 233 00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:07,760 Speaker 1: of video that we have from that red light. You've 234 00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:13,160 Speaker 1: got about a handful of witnesses. There's only one that 235 00:16:13,280 --> 00:16:16,600 Speaker 1: even remotely seems like a possibility. And I'm going to 236 00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:19,440 Speaker 1: go to you on that, joining me at Cheryl McCallum, 237 00:16:19,520 --> 00:16:23,560 Speaker 1: director founder of the Cold Case Research Institute, Jump in, Cheryl, Nancy. 238 00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:26,920 Speaker 1: There's so much here that law enforcement has got to 239 00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:31,160 Speaker 1: look at. The timeline obviously is imperative. You and I. 240 00:16:31,280 --> 00:16:34,520 Speaker 1: That's where we would have started. That's where you narrow down. 241 00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:38,560 Speaker 1: You know, who could have attacked this woman and killed 242 00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:40,920 Speaker 1: her in that amount of time. You got to close 243 00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:44,120 Speaker 1: that window and get as close as you can the 244 00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:48,040 Speaker 1: witnesses that are coming forward. That's fabulous. So they're going 245 00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:51,000 Speaker 1: to gain information from them, Cheryl. No, they're not. No, 246 00:16:51,120 --> 00:16:53,080 Speaker 1: they're not. I mean, I'm just telling you like it is. 247 00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:56,480 Speaker 1: These people. You can look at the pictures, Cheryl, except 248 00:16:56,480 --> 00:16:58,160 Speaker 1: for that guy. I think it's a guy in a 249 00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:02,200 Speaker 1: hoodie because I can't see his anner. They are just 250 00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:04,560 Speaker 1: walking out. They have no idea they're walking by a 251 00:17:04,600 --> 00:17:06,600 Speaker 1: crime scene. Is They're not going to be of any help. 252 00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:08,679 Speaker 1: Not these anyway, They didn't even know they walk by 253 00:17:08,680 --> 00:17:11,040 Speaker 1: a dead woman. Well, let me give you an example. 254 00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:14,600 Speaker 1: We know right now that no one has come forward 255 00:17:14,640 --> 00:17:18,600 Speaker 1: reporting screams. That does help us. If you were writing 256 00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:21,520 Speaker 1: close proximity and you heard nothing and you saw nothing, 257 00:17:21,920 --> 00:17:24,840 Speaker 1: that could be helpful for us to determine when she 258 00:17:25,040 --> 00:17:29,640 Speaker 1: was actually murdered. So again, the dog is gonna give 259 00:17:29,720 --> 00:17:32,919 Speaker 1: us information. They're going to swab that dog's mouth and 260 00:17:33,040 --> 00:17:36,000 Speaker 1: tom they're going to look for scrapings on It's called 261 00:17:36,119 --> 00:17:39,360 Speaker 1: a smart Cheryl, by the way, very smart about swabbing 262 00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:42,080 Speaker 1: the dog's mouth in case maybe he bit the perk 263 00:17:42,200 --> 00:17:44,720 Speaker 1: go ahead, yes, because what you want to know is 264 00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:48,520 Speaker 1: it was that dog able to attack this perpetrator, because 265 00:17:48,560 --> 00:17:51,439 Speaker 1: again I believe the dog was killed first because the 266 00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:54,719 Speaker 1: dog is about fifty feet from the victim. So I 267 00:17:54,760 --> 00:17:58,000 Speaker 1: think possibly the person grabbed the leash killed the dog. 268 00:17:58,680 --> 00:18:01,240 Speaker 1: Katie might have started to run they attacked her. I 269 00:18:01,320 --> 00:18:04,800 Speaker 1: think this was quicker than people think, but there might 270 00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:10,840 Speaker 1: be fabulous evidence on both victims. Hey, Michael Sidon WSBTV 271 00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:14,080 Speaker 1: joining us out of Atlanta, was there any indication that 272 00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:17,400 Speaker 1: there was a rape or attempted rape on Katie? Yeah, 273 00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:20,800 Speaker 1: that's that's probably a better question for investigators. What I 274 00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:22,480 Speaker 1: will tell you this, and we have not gotten this 275 00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:26,240 Speaker 1: confirmed by investigators, but the father of Emma Clark, so 276 00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:30,440 Speaker 1: the victim's essential father in law, said that he was 277 00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:34,320 Speaker 1: told by investigators that the dog has DNA in its mouth. 278 00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:37,520 Speaker 1: But again, it appears that the dog was protecting its 279 00:18:37,560 --> 00:18:40,080 Speaker 1: owner during this attack. Do you know anything about whether 280 00:18:40,080 --> 00:18:42,880 Speaker 1: there was an attempted rape? Michael Sidon, No, I had 281 00:18:42,880 --> 00:18:46,080 Speaker 1: no information on that. And the reason I'm asking is 282 00:18:46,119 --> 00:18:48,320 Speaker 1: because the next thing you want to do is going 283 00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:51,879 Speaker 1: to list of rapists in the area, sex offenders in 284 00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:54,760 Speaker 1: the area. Anybody that's been arrested for a or sex 285 00:18:54,800 --> 00:18:57,359 Speaker 1: assault and then has been add on bond, that's the 286 00:18:57,359 --> 00:18:59,159 Speaker 1: first thing you want to do if there has been 287 00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:02,639 Speaker 1: an attempted but we don't know that. But what you're saying, 288 00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:07,000 Speaker 1: Michael Seiden fixen perfectly with Cheryl mccallums scenario that the 289 00:19:07,040 --> 00:19:10,720 Speaker 1: dog was killed first found about fifty feet away from 290 00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:27,280 Speaker 1: the victim. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we are 291 00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:32,600 Speaker 1: talking about a case that has rocked a community in Atlanta. 292 00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:36,120 Speaker 1: At the heart of the city of Atlanta, Piedmont Park, 293 00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:42,200 Speaker 1: Katie Janie found brutally stad as was her dog Bowie, 294 00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:49,080 Speaker 1: which is a whole another mental factor in her murder. Guys, 295 00:19:49,119 --> 00:19:51,520 Speaker 1: I want you to take a listen now to our 296 00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:55,800 Speaker 1: friends at eleven Alive, Ira Cut four. Atlanta Police are 297 00:19:55,840 --> 00:19:58,080 Speaker 1: asking you to take a close look at this picture 298 00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:01,320 Speaker 1: of Catherine John's She was last scene walking her dog 299 00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:04,399 Speaker 1: late last night near Piedmont Park in Midtown. We're just 300 00:20:04,520 --> 00:20:07,879 Speaker 1: asking any any one if they saw her anything, to 301 00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:11,679 Speaker 1: call nine one. One called Prime Stoffers. Shortly after one 302 00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:14,800 Speaker 1: o'clock this morning, she was found brutally stabbed to death 303 00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:18,840 Speaker 1: inside Peedemont Park. Her dog was also killed. Obviously, I'm 304 00:20:19,040 --> 00:20:22,359 Speaker 1: extremely saddened, shaken up. I mean being in the same 305 00:20:22,359 --> 00:20:25,240 Speaker 1: age range, living in the same area, also having a dog. 306 00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:28,800 Speaker 1: Several joggers today telling me they're on edge and one answer. 307 00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:32,080 Speaker 1: I really hope that to find the person in any 308 00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:34,760 Speaker 1: you know, figure out security around the area. All of 309 00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:36,760 Speaker 1: us would like to know is this a random act? 310 00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:38,680 Speaker 1: Was there you know as someone targeted. I mean, it 311 00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:40,840 Speaker 1: would just help for this for us to have peace 312 00:20:40,840 --> 00:20:43,480 Speaker 1: of mind and have an idea of the threat level 313 00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:46,080 Speaker 1: and the safety. You were just hearing, not our friends 314 00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:48,240 Speaker 1: at lettin a Lie, but I think Tyler played our 315 00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:53,280 Speaker 1: friends at CBS forty six. You know, we're talking about 316 00:20:53,359 --> 00:20:57,480 Speaker 1: the people in the neighborhood in fear because they're afraid 317 00:20:57,520 --> 00:21:01,240 Speaker 1: to walk out their door. Peedmont Park is huge and 318 00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:07,240 Speaker 1: many many apartments, businesses, restaurants, condos, a high school. You 319 00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:10,600 Speaker 1: heard Darryll Cohen discussing earlier is right there on the 320 00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:13,080 Speaker 1: edge of the park. Think about Central Park in New 321 00:21:13,160 --> 00:21:16,119 Speaker 1: York or a big park in your area. That is 322 00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:20,760 Speaker 1: what Piedmont Park is like for Atlanta's right now, still 323 00:21:21,080 --> 00:21:24,320 Speaker 1: no leads in the murder of Katie Janis, and not 324 00:21:24,359 --> 00:21:27,919 Speaker 1: only that we're getting distressing news that the cameras in 325 00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:31,880 Speaker 1: the park don't work. Now to further muddy the waters, 326 00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:35,560 Speaker 1: where you're learning that another young woman was murdered the 327 00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:39,720 Speaker 1: same night, the same time frame in a public park. 328 00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:45,160 Speaker 1: I'm talking about Tory Lane, eighteen years old, a twenty 329 00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:49,159 Speaker 1: twenty one honor graduate headed to college. Now, let me 330 00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:52,920 Speaker 1: understand this out to you, Michael Sidon joining us from WSBTV. 331 00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:57,480 Speaker 1: That was about twenty miles away at Yellow River Park 332 00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:00,760 Speaker 1: in Gwinette County. I don't see the connect and she 333 00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:03,560 Speaker 1: was stabbed dead. It's clearly and this is the place 334 00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:06,720 Speaker 1: working theory someone that knew her, because they took the 335 00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:09,680 Speaker 1: time to stage the scene. Her car, which was that 336 00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:14,359 Speaker 1: beat up twenty twelve Nissan Versa, was found about five 337 00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:19,480 Speaker 1: miles away from the body, burned out. Somebody took her 338 00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:22,320 Speaker 1: car away and burn it. Plus the m O monasaw 339 00:22:22,359 --> 00:22:26,400 Speaker 1: friendI method of operations, she was shot dead. I don't 340 00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:29,919 Speaker 1: see that these are other than the same night in 341 00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:33,320 Speaker 1: a park. I don't see that they're connected. Michael. Yeah, 342 00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:35,720 Speaker 1: And that's the big thing is that initially that's where 343 00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:38,640 Speaker 1: people got the whole serial killer dartive from I don't 344 00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:41,960 Speaker 1: see it either, Nancy. I mean again, you're talking Piedmont Park, 345 00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:43,960 Speaker 1: which is right in the heart of midtown Atlanta, and 346 00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:47,600 Speaker 1: then you're talking about Gwynette County, a completely different suburb 347 00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:51,600 Speaker 1: of metro Atlanta. This also a hainous, heinous crime. But 348 00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:55,160 Speaker 1: this is an eighteen year old woman in honors graduates 349 00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:58,399 Speaker 1: sound shot to death for card burned out. Obviously, this 350 00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:02,040 Speaker 1: is a murder mystery as well, But drawing the connection 351 00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:04,720 Speaker 1: of the two, I don't see it either. The working 352 00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:09,040 Speaker 1: theory there is that Tory was shot by someone she knows, 353 00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:12,879 Speaker 1: because that someone, unlike a random killer, took the time 354 00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:16,240 Speaker 1: to stage the scene, hiding the car in a very 355 00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:19,840 Speaker 1: remote wooded area and burning it. Joining me now is 356 00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:25,280 Speaker 1: death investigator Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State, author 357 00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:28,960 Speaker 1: of Blood Beneath My Feet and Star Pike and Massacre 358 00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:32,919 Speaker 1: to you just got Morgan way in, Yeah, I tell you, Nancy, 359 00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:37,240 Speaker 1: you know, looking at this case, one of the words 360 00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:41,359 Speaker 1: that's being used is not only stabbing, police are also 361 00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:45,440 Speaker 1: using the term mutilated, and then goes to a completely 362 00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:47,919 Speaker 1: different level. When you talk about a homicide in a 363 00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:50,520 Speaker 1: case like this, stabbing is one thing, it can be 364 00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:54,840 Speaker 1: rather quick, you can stab somebody multiple times. But from 365 00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:59,600 Speaker 1: what I understand, the events that surround her death, and 366 00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:03,040 Speaker 1: that can addition in which her body was found, would 367 00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:06,280 Speaker 1: give me pause to think that this individual spent some 368 00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:10,359 Speaker 1: time with Katie's body to the degree that it was 369 00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:13,680 Speaker 1: in fact mutilated, and you really need to let that 370 00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:18,800 Speaker 1: word resonate. I think strongly here the person that did this, 371 00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:23,720 Speaker 1: in my opinion, at least was familiar with this area. 372 00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:26,080 Speaker 1: This was right at the point of access to the 373 00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:29,080 Speaker 1: entrance to the park, as you had mentioned just a 374 00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:32,840 Speaker 1: moment ago. I think what Cheryl had mentioned also was 375 00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:37,560 Speaker 1: key relative to the forensic evidence that will be found 376 00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:40,719 Speaker 1: on this dog. Another thing that the police will be 377 00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:42,959 Speaker 1: looking for that is going to stand out like a 378 00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:46,680 Speaker 1: sore thumb is the fact that whoever engaged in this 379 00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:51,000 Speaker 1: probably has injuries. If that dog and this is a pitbull, 380 00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:55,080 Speaker 1: they left marks on this individual. So when they're out, 381 00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:58,679 Speaker 1: when the police are out canvassing talking to folks, it 382 00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:01,399 Speaker 1: could be somebody that got to we're into by this dog. 383 00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:04,640 Speaker 1: You see these images of Katie laying on the bed 384 00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:06,399 Speaker 1: with a dog, you can see that they had a 385 00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:09,920 Speaker 1: very loving relationship. This dog's probably very protective of her, 386 00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:13,160 Speaker 1: but you know the dog didn't stand a chance as 387 00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:17,159 Speaker 1: Katie didn't. Back to your point about if there was 388 00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:21,080 Speaker 1: evidence of a rape, well, I don't necessarily know that 389 00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:22,600 Speaker 1: there was evidence of rape. I can tell you at 390 00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:24,840 Speaker 1: the medical Examiner's office in a case like this, they're 391 00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:27,840 Speaker 1: going to be doing a rape kit. That means I 392 00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:30,280 Speaker 1: won't go into graphic detail here, but they will swab 393 00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:34,640 Speaker 1: specific areas of the body. And look, Joe Scott, I'm 394 00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:38,159 Speaker 1: not worried if you say something like pelvic exam or 395 00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:44,000 Speaker 1: vagina or anas. We're talking about a murder. All those 396 00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:48,439 Speaker 1: niceties don't matter now. So the fact that they're going 397 00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:50,959 Speaker 1: to do basically every woman Jack, I'm sure you've had 398 00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:53,680 Speaker 1: a pelvic exam. I assume it's not fun, but we've 399 00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:58,280 Speaker 1: all done it. We've all had children, Jesscot, So alldentity 400 00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:02,200 Speaker 1: is gone like a pelvic exam on a dead body. 401 00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:07,040 Speaker 1: That's what a rape kid is. Except also, the medical 402 00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:11,760 Speaker 1: examiner will take a very fine comb unlike one you've 403 00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:15,240 Speaker 1: ever used on your hair, and comb through pubic hair, 404 00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:20,160 Speaker 1: look at the entire body, I guess under a microscope. 405 00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:22,200 Speaker 1: That's the only way I can say it for any hair, 406 00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:26,320 Speaker 1: for epiphilial skin cells, you can't see it, but it 407 00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:31,560 Speaker 1: will be tested. I pray to God they will. Exactly 408 00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:34,800 Speaker 1: how do they do it? Joe Scott Morgan, You've got 409 00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:38,760 Speaker 1: to do a pelvic but you've got to look for semen. Yeah, 410 00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:41,280 Speaker 1: you're going to be looking for sperm, and you want 411 00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:43,600 Speaker 1: to see, for instance, with semen, you want to know 412 00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:46,440 Speaker 1: if there's any motility to the semen. What that means. 413 00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:49,600 Speaker 1: If you please stop talking like that, Okay, motility, you 414 00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:53,560 Speaker 1: gotta I gotta dummy down everything you say. With the ejaculate, 415 00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:56,240 Speaker 1: you want to see if the sperm or alive or dead. 416 00:26:56,359 --> 00:26:59,919 Speaker 1: That narrows down your field. And then also stop, stop 417 00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:05,560 Speaker 1: it narrows down your field? What are you trying to say? Well, 418 00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:07,600 Speaker 1: what I'm trying to say, Nancy, is that if the 419 00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:12,480 Speaker 1: individual that ejaculated had living sperm or dead sperm. If 420 00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:14,679 Speaker 1: they have dead sperm, that means that they are no 421 00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:18,680 Speaker 1: longer fertile, they cannot reproduce, and there's a certain segment 422 00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:22,199 Speaker 1: of the population that you automatically narrow down with that. Now, 423 00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:25,280 Speaker 1: if you have sperm, if you have semen, you can 424 00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:28,160 Speaker 1: also do DNA. One other thing they're going to do here. 425 00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:31,960 Speaker 1: You had mentioned you can't get DNA from ejaculate. There 426 00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:34,520 Speaker 1: doesn't have to be sperm. No, you can, and you 427 00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:39,199 Speaker 1: can in fact get DNA from ejaculated doesn't necessarily have 428 00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:42,800 Speaker 1: to be sperm. It would be ideal to have the sperm. 429 00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:45,919 Speaker 1: Another thing that you pose, just so folks understand. If 430 00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:49,080 Speaker 1: you've got school aged children, there's there have been kids 431 00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:51,040 Speaker 1: that have lice. For instance, you have to use one 432 00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:53,760 Speaker 1: of the fine combs for the lice. That's what we 433 00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:56,120 Speaker 1: use in the board, essentially to look for the hair. Also, 434 00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:59,440 Speaker 1: they're going to do nail scrapings. They'll climp, they will 435 00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:03,080 Speaker 1: her nails, look underneath the nails from dead skin cells, 436 00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:05,919 Speaker 1: this sort of thing, and any kind of attempts she 437 00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:07,760 Speaker 1: may have bitten this guy for where all we know 438 00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:10,120 Speaker 1: is well to try to get him off of her. 439 00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:14,120 Speaker 1: One other sexual component to this Nancy. It doesn't necessarily 440 00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:16,919 Speaker 1: have to be a rape, but from what I'm hearing, 441 00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:20,639 Speaker 1: From what I'm hearing, if her clothinginess disrupted. Some of 442 00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:24,359 Speaker 1: these individuals get pleasure out of seeing pain. And if 443 00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:28,800 Speaker 1: you inflict pain on areas that are say like the vagina, 444 00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:33,639 Speaker 1: her backside or maybe even her breast. If they're disfigured 445 00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:37,040 Speaker 1: in any way, that could be an indication of sex 446 00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:40,040 Speaker 1: or mouth that can be an indication of sexual or 447 00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:44,000 Speaker 1: a sexual predator, a sadistic sexual predator. You know what, 448 00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:46,280 Speaker 1: I was giving you a little bit of hubl, but 449 00:28:46,680 --> 00:29:04,560 Speaker 1: you or just a fountain of incredible information time stories 450 00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:09,400 Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. Guys, we're talking about how to solve 451 00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:13,440 Speaker 1: a murder, a brutal murder, unlike anything the city of Atlanta. 452 00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:15,800 Speaker 1: We've got a very high crime rate in the city 453 00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:18,480 Speaker 1: of Atlanta, and when you say this is unlike anything 454 00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:22,760 Speaker 1: I've ever seen before, that's comparing to a lot of cases, 455 00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:27,520 Speaker 1: which makes us even more disturbing. As Jessica Morgan said, 456 00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:32,720 Speaker 1: this woman, Katie Janis, was quote mutilated. Okay, Cheryl, sorry, 457 00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:35,680 Speaker 1: go ahead, Dear Nancy. The park was dark where she 458 00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:37,800 Speaker 1: was found, So if she had been stabbed in the 459 00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:40,240 Speaker 1: back of the chest and was just laying on the ground, 460 00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:44,360 Speaker 1: the witness on the nine one one call, when her 461 00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:48,680 Speaker 1: wife girlfriend was making the call, would not have had 462 00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:52,160 Speaker 1: the reaction that they had. You can hear that person 463 00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:57,240 Speaker 1: flip out. Now, that tells you something is horribly wrong. 464 00:29:57,680 --> 00:29:59,760 Speaker 1: Because in the dark. You wouldn't even see that much 465 00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:03,480 Speaker 1: from a stabbing from veteran people. Saying that it was 466 00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:08,640 Speaker 1: grotesque tells you the manner in which this victim was left. 467 00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:11,960 Speaker 1: Now keep in mind, this killer did all of these 468 00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:14,640 Speaker 1: gruesome things to this victim, but left her in the 469 00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:17,920 Speaker 1: wide open, left the dog in the wide open. That 470 00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:20,600 Speaker 1: should tell you that it was a blitz attack. It 471 00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:23,960 Speaker 1: was very quick, so again to me, I agree with 472 00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:26,400 Speaker 1: Joe Scott Morgan, but I would call this person a 473 00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:30,640 Speaker 1: lust killer. And if this person had any necrophilia in 474 00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:34,120 Speaker 1: that scene, it doesn't necessarily have to be on her 475 00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:36,840 Speaker 1: body either. Another thing, sharl McCall, let me go through 476 00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:38,720 Speaker 1: this theory with you. I do not believe it was 477 00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:42,560 Speaker 1: anybody that knew her or as close to her, because 478 00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:45,440 Speaker 1: they would have done it in secret. They knew where 479 00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:47,880 Speaker 1: she was, they knew where she lived, they knew where 480 00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:50,200 Speaker 1: she worked. They could have done it anywhere, not out 481 00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:52,640 Speaker 1: in the open and leaving the body out in the open, 482 00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:56,160 Speaker 1: which tells me, just based statistically on what I know, 483 00:30:56,760 --> 00:30:59,600 Speaker 1: is a random killing. I mean, when you want to 484 00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:02,160 Speaker 1: kill somebody you know, you kill them in their home 485 00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:05,240 Speaker 1: and secret. What CHUMPI and go I gotta say if 486 00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:07,760 Speaker 1: that's the case. If that's the case, then what you've 487 00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:12,160 Speaker 1: got is a raving maniac out there. People absolutely need 488 00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:16,120 Speaker 1: to be terrified at this point because if there's an 489 00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:19,560 Speaker 1: individual that is out there of that's a total stranger 490 00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:25,440 Speaker 1: that's capable of inflicting this level of trauma to this 491 00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:29,080 Speaker 1: young woman, they'll do it to anybody, anybody. And to 492 00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:33,160 Speaker 1: Max's point, I think there's a potential because of what 493 00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:35,640 Speaker 1: the police are saying. Her body very well may have 494 00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:38,719 Speaker 1: been posed. She was left out in the open so 495 00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:41,360 Speaker 1: everybody could see this. She talked about the reaction that 496 00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:44,000 Speaker 1: the individuals have. I would be scared out of my 497 00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:47,480 Speaker 1: wits if I was living in that. To you, Michael Sidon, 498 00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:49,520 Speaker 1: I want to follow up. I want Joe Scott Morgan 499 00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:52,160 Speaker 1: and Searl McCollum are saying. You know, between the two 500 00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:55,960 Speaker 1: of them, they have so much friends experience. So why 501 00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:59,000 Speaker 1: isn't Michael Sidon and the mayor is saying, oh, it's 502 00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:02,400 Speaker 1: not a serial killer, We're gonna solve it. Why are 503 00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:05,600 Speaker 1: they down playing this? I think, you know, I think 504 00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:08,960 Speaker 1: they don't want to inflict, you know, all this terror 505 00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:11,480 Speaker 1: and fear and chaos. But I mean that's what we're 506 00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:14,720 Speaker 1: hearing from our viewers in Atlanta. That's what we're hearing 507 00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:17,160 Speaker 1: from people in the community. They are nervous, and in fact, 508 00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:19,320 Speaker 1: this over the weekend. They just had a big festival 509 00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:22,160 Speaker 1: there and we interview people telling us, hey, I thought 510 00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:24,520 Speaker 1: about I thought twice about coming out to the park now, 511 00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:27,400 Speaker 1: I will say um following a press conference with the 512 00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:32,000 Speaker 1: city and the mayor, District Attorney's Office FBI US Attorney's Office, 513 00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:34,120 Speaker 1: they did hold a press conference and said, if you're 514 00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:36,719 Speaker 1: going to be there at night, you better be traveling 515 00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:39,400 Speaker 1: with a group and don't be there by yourself. Yeah. 516 00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:43,720 Speaker 1: I heard that from FAWNI the new district attorney is 517 00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:46,120 Speaker 1: doing a really great job on this, but I haven't 518 00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:49,040 Speaker 1: heard it from the elected officials. And we've been we've 519 00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:51,320 Speaker 1: been asking that question, you know, we've we've been we've 520 00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:54,840 Speaker 1: been posing that question. And you know at this point 521 00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:58,440 Speaker 1: is they're keeping everything close to the vest, the homicide detectives. 522 00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:01,680 Speaker 1: But as you guys bring up these potential theories that 523 00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:05,400 Speaker 1: could prove true, I think it's a valid question. Are 524 00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:07,880 Speaker 1: people safe to go to the park? Guys, hold on 525 00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:10,440 Speaker 1: just one one. I want to bring in a renowned psychiatrists. 526 00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:13,320 Speaker 1: Joining us today, Doctor Angela Arnold. But first and Tyler, 527 00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:18,120 Speaker 1: I need you to play our cut seven. Tyler. It 528 00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:23,800 Speaker 1: is Zach Somers joining us from CBS our cut number seven, Tyler. 529 00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:26,440 Speaker 1: Atlanta Police were called to the park in Midtown around 530 00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:29,680 Speaker 1: one am and found the body of Katherine Janes. Police 531 00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:32,720 Speaker 1: say the forty year old had been stabbed multiple times. 532 00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:35,600 Speaker 1: Her dog was also killed. One of the last known 533 00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:38,560 Speaker 1: sightings of the two was near tenth and Piedmont. It's 534 00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:40,959 Speaker 1: not surprising that she would have been out. Clayton Skinner 535 00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:44,280 Speaker 1: was a regular customer of Janesis. She was a bartender 536 00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:47,280 Speaker 1: and campanola. Skinner says most people who knew her called 537 00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:52,000 Speaker 1: her Katie. She was a genuinely shy, sweet kind person. Skinner, 538 00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:54,880 Speaker 1: who also lives in Midtown, says he often saw Janice 539 00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:58,040 Speaker 1: walking her dog in the neighborhood. She routinely walked her 540 00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:02,040 Speaker 1: dog later at night because she took worked. Sure, I'm 541 00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:03,920 Speaker 1: going to go to you on this, Doctor Angela Arnold, 542 00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:06,840 Speaker 1: and everybody else jump in after, because this is a 543 00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:11,359 Speaker 1: whole other facet. The victim in this case was a 544 00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:19,840 Speaker 1: singer songwriter, very tenderhearted, very sensitive person. She also worked 545 00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:23,600 Speaker 1: part time as a bartender, and a lot of aspersions 546 00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:25,640 Speaker 1: have also been cast on her because she worked as 547 00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:27,640 Speaker 1: a bartender. And I would like to point out that 548 00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:31,240 Speaker 1: I'm very proud of my niece who graduated with honors 549 00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:35,080 Speaker 1: from Stanford, but for a while she worked part time 550 00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:39,000 Speaker 1: as a bartender. You know, I don't like the way 551 00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:43,000 Speaker 1: she's being crucified, Doctor Angela Arnold, but it does in 552 00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:45,960 Speaker 1: one way. It is critical. It is important because who 553 00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:49,080 Speaker 1: knows who could have seen her, gotten a crush on her, 554 00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:53,120 Speaker 1: followed her from that bar where she worked, and it 555 00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:55,239 Speaker 1: also explains why she was out so late at night. 556 00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:57,960 Speaker 1: She's been as sailed for that too, because she worked 557 00:34:58,120 --> 00:34:59,920 Speaker 1: late at night and got off and went out to 558 00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:03,400 Speaker 1: walk her dog. She's just really taken a lot of hits, 559 00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:07,360 Speaker 1: doctor Angie. I agree with you, Nancy. And people don't 560 00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:11,520 Speaker 1: understand what this area is like. It's got such a 561 00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:15,680 Speaker 1: neighborhood feel to it, and the tavern where she worked, 562 00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:22,040 Speaker 1: it's all full of regulars, Nancy, so everybody knows each 563 00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:25,560 Speaker 1: other there. Wait, what tavern was it? Henry Tavern on 564 00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:30,520 Speaker 1: Temph Street? Right, Yeah, basically down the street, maybe a 565 00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:34,840 Speaker 1: block away from where this happened. Okay, So, Nancy, another 566 00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:36,640 Speaker 1: thing that I wanted to point out. Also, there's been 567 00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:39,520 Speaker 1: a lot of talk about this is the most unusual 568 00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:42,320 Speaker 1: crime that anybody's ever seen. The police have never seen 569 00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:45,680 Speaker 1: anything like this. Well what does that mean, Nancy? That 570 00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:48,600 Speaker 1: means that we're all not walking around living in fear 571 00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:51,440 Speaker 1: that somebody's going to mutilate us if we take our 572 00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:57,640 Speaker 1: dog out. Because I believe, as a psychiatrist, I believe 573 00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:02,440 Speaker 1: that we cannot constantly live of in fear. We're We're 574 00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:06,520 Speaker 1: being made to fear everything right now. So at some 575 00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:09,000 Speaker 1: point you have to let go. I'm not saying that 576 00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:12,839 Speaker 1: we shouldn't be safe, but she didn't think that she 577 00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:16,160 Speaker 1: was being unsafe. She took her pit bull out to 578 00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:20,800 Speaker 1: let him relieve himself. And I'm going to tell you something, Nancy. 579 00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:26,840 Speaker 1: I live two blocks from where this happened. Okay, Nancy, 580 00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:30,319 Speaker 1: we don't feel unsafe in our neighborhood. We love where 581 00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:33,160 Speaker 1: we live. We love Midtown and that is the exact 582 00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:34,920 Speaker 1: same way that the people that live over back to 583 00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:38,239 Speaker 1: Mont Park feel. We live here for a reason. And 584 00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:42,239 Speaker 1: so I don't know this this business of blaming her 585 00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:45,160 Speaker 1: and blaming her fiance and all of this. I think 586 00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:49,000 Speaker 1: this is coming from a place of ignorance on a 587 00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:52,280 Speaker 1: lot of people's part because they don't understand the neighborhood 588 00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:56,040 Speaker 1: in which we live. Well. I think it's something else, 589 00:36:56,080 --> 00:36:59,799 Speaker 1: Dodger Angie. I believe people like too. I believe there's 590 00:36:59,880 --> 00:37:01,799 Speaker 1: no other component. I think people like to attack the 591 00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:05,560 Speaker 1: victim and what he may have done because it makes 592 00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:08,040 Speaker 1: them feel safe. Oh, she was out with their dog 593 00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:11,840 Speaker 1: late at night. I would never do that. Translation, I'm safe. 594 00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:14,480 Speaker 1: I don't have to worry about this. That's what I 595 00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:16,239 Speaker 1: think a lot of people do. You know. I want 596 00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:19,160 Speaker 1: to analyze what we know. Cheryl McCullum and joining me 597 00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:26,560 Speaker 1: also special guests joining us from WSBTV Guys. I'm very 598 00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:29,920 Speaker 1: concerned about the way she's being portrayed, Michael Sidon. But 599 00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:34,840 Speaker 1: what other forensic evidence, because you know, her reputation is 600 00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:37,680 Speaker 1: taking a hit for no reason. But that's not going 601 00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:39,960 Speaker 1: to be pertinent at trial. What it's going to be 602 00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:42,200 Speaker 1: pertinent at trial when this person, it's a man, I 603 00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:44,920 Speaker 1: can guarantee you that is caught. It's going to be 604 00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:48,400 Speaker 1: about the cold heart evidence. Is there anything you haven't 605 00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:51,880 Speaker 1: told us? Michael? I think we hit on just about everything. Again, 606 00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:54,040 Speaker 1: I think I don't want to keep bringing up the 607 00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:55,960 Speaker 1: boar tender thing, but I do think it is key 608 00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:59,200 Speaker 1: in this because people who knew her in the neighborhood, 609 00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:02,000 Speaker 1: whether it be friends, family, or complete strangers, always talked 610 00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:04,359 Speaker 1: about how she was the wife of the party. When 611 00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:07,600 Speaker 1: you'd walk into the restaurants she worked at, everybody knew her. 612 00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:10,520 Speaker 1: And I think that's extremely important because while she may 613 00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:13,120 Speaker 1: not have known everybody, all these people went to the bar, 614 00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:16,080 Speaker 1: they had conversations with her. She had She was always 615 00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:18,520 Speaker 1: the type having a good time, and that could play key. 616 00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:21,160 Speaker 1: And who the suspect is, Like you mentioned, I think, Nancy, 617 00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:23,479 Speaker 1: that it could have been some sicko who was sitting 618 00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:26,280 Speaker 1: in the corner that had this fantasy, right, but which 619 00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:32,160 Speaker 1: also makes it not random. And I yes, you're right, Michael, 620 00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:36,560 Speaker 1: of course you're right. WSBTV joining us Sean McCollum jump in, Nancy. 621 00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:39,719 Speaker 1: We know from the camera footage police already knew she 622 00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:42,480 Speaker 1: wasn't followed. You can see her in the cross falls. 623 00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:46,160 Speaker 1: She's by herself. Boy, they would have picked somebody up already. 624 00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:49,720 Speaker 1: Second thing, her cell phone is going to be imperative. 625 00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:53,319 Speaker 1: When did somebody start calling her, when were they taxted her? 626 00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:56,680 Speaker 1: And when, according to the GPS on that phone, did 627 00:38:56,719 --> 00:38:59,239 Speaker 1: that dot stop moving. They're going to know that in 628 00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:04,440 Speaker 1: real time. They're also going to concentrate on post mortem injuries, 629 00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:08,200 Speaker 1: what was done to her after she was dead. And 630 00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:10,960 Speaker 1: let me just say this, and doctor Angie can jump in, 631 00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:14,759 Speaker 1: but you and I and Nancy have worked a thousand 632 00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:19,440 Speaker 1: cases where the family at the scene cannot accept what's happened. 633 00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:22,520 Speaker 1: They you know, they beg you know, please keep doing CPR, 634 00:39:22,680 --> 00:39:26,960 Speaker 1: Please gear to Grady, please save her. Her wife accepted 635 00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:29,479 Speaker 1: that she was dead on the nine one one call. 636 00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:34,200 Speaker 1: That tells you the manner in which that victim was left. 637 00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:39,480 Speaker 1: As always, brilliant guys, if you know or even think 638 00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:43,320 Speaker 1: you know anything about the death of this beautiful young woman, 639 00:39:43,719 --> 00:39:48,560 Speaker 1: please dial Atlanta Homicide four zero four or five four 640 00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:53,600 Speaker 1: six forty two thirty five repeat four zero four five 641 00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:58,600 Speaker 1: four six four two three five. We wait as justice 642 00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:02,240 Speaker 1: and falls. Yancy great son in law, A goodbye friend.