1 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:07,920 Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Law with June Brusso from Bloomberg Radio. 2 00:00:09,080 --> 00:00:13,600 Speaker 1: Are you coming from fider? Are you trying? I'm gonna 3 00:00:13,640 --> 00:00:16,560 Speaker 1: take a look at side. I have a package in here. 4 00:00:17,840 --> 00:00:23,840 Speaker 1: Are you are madawasca? There anything my stickney? Cut me, 5 00:00:23,880 --> 00:00:26,880 Speaker 1: poke me, jump out at me. We're used to hearing 6 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:30,320 Speaker 1: customs officials demands to go through our bags at the border, 7 00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:34,640 Speaker 1: as depicted in the show appropriately named Border Security. But 8 00:00:34,760 --> 00:00:37,040 Speaker 1: what if they want to scroll through your cell phone 9 00:00:37,159 --> 00:00:41,360 Speaker 1: or laptop without even a suspicion that you've done something wrong. Well, 10 00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:45,360 Speaker 1: a new federal appellate court decision says that's perfectly legal, 11 00:00:45,800 --> 00:00:51,040 Speaker 1: joining me as former federal prosecutor George Newhouse of Richard's Carrington. So, George, 12 00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:54,560 Speaker 1: there's a border search exception to the Fourth Amendment. Tell 13 00:00:54,640 --> 00:00:57,000 Speaker 1: us a little about it. So the Fourth Amendment, as 14 00:00:57,040 --> 00:01:00,440 Speaker 1: you know, generally requires a search warrant and problem cause 15 00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:04,959 Speaker 1: to justify any incursion into a citizen's privacy. There are 16 00:01:05,160 --> 00:01:08,440 Speaker 1: pen well known exception to that requirement, and one of 17 00:01:08,440 --> 00:01:11,520 Speaker 1: which is called the border exception, which basically says that 18 00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:15,520 Speaker 1: because the government's interests in securing our borders and protecting 19 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:20,640 Speaker 1: against people bringing in illicit narcotics other contrabands is so 20 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:23,760 Speaker 1: high that basically the government gets a free pass at 21 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:26,199 Speaker 1: the border in going in or going out by the way, 22 00:01:26,440 --> 00:01:29,319 Speaker 1: and they can search your your baggage. We all know 23 00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:31,800 Speaker 1: that when you go through customs, the government is allowed 24 00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:34,160 Speaker 1: to poke through your lingerie and look in your bag 25 00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:36,280 Speaker 1: and make sure that you're not bringing anything into the 26 00:01:36,280 --> 00:01:39,240 Speaker 1: country that you shouldn't be. So that's the border exception. 27 00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:43,520 Speaker 1: It's very broad, no problem causes required, and no search warrants. 28 00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:46,800 Speaker 1: So in this case you had a group of returning 29 00:01:46,880 --> 00:01:52,080 Speaker 1: citizens and they objected to electronic devices being searched without 30 00:01:52,080 --> 00:01:55,520 Speaker 1: a warrant and including there was a NASA scientist who 31 00:01:55,600 --> 00:01:59,919 Speaker 1: was detained and pressure to unlock a secure government issued phone. 32 00:02:00,680 --> 00:02:04,120 Speaker 1: Tell us what happened in the district court below. So 33 00:02:04,280 --> 00:02:06,880 Speaker 1: this case was actually brought by the a c o U. 34 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:09,840 Speaker 1: And one interesting aspect of it procedurally is it's a 35 00:02:09,919 --> 00:02:13,640 Speaker 1: civil case, which is to say that normally, violations of 36 00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:15,919 Speaker 1: the fourth of end and only come up when someone 37 00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:19,640 Speaker 1: is arrested and then prosecuted for a violation where the 38 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:22,640 Speaker 1: evidence was obtained by virtue of the search. Now, in 39 00:02:22,680 --> 00:02:25,600 Speaker 1: this case, the a c o U gathered, frankly a 40 00:02:25,639 --> 00:02:29,639 Speaker 1: group of people who had been bothered and interfered when 41 00:02:29,639 --> 00:02:32,560 Speaker 1: they came into the country, including this NASA scientists. So 42 00:02:32,639 --> 00:02:36,040 Speaker 1: they were hoping that presented a significant set of facts 43 00:02:36,200 --> 00:02:38,760 Speaker 1: to the district court to get the district court to 44 00:02:38,880 --> 00:02:42,720 Speaker 1: strike down the issue. In these nationwide injunctions against customs 45 00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:45,960 Speaker 1: and border patrol on ICE have these policies that now 46 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:49,960 Speaker 1: lay out various guidelines or border officers and basically say 47 00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:53,600 Speaker 1: to them, you don't need any suspicion or cause, you 48 00:02:53,600 --> 00:02:56,040 Speaker 1: don't need a warrant if someone is coming into the country. 49 00:02:56,080 --> 00:02:58,600 Speaker 1: And by the way, they can do these searches even 50 00:02:58,639 --> 00:03:00,880 Speaker 1: within a hundred miles on the order, so it covers 51 00:03:00,919 --> 00:03:04,480 Speaker 1: a wide swat of US territory. They persuaded a district 52 00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:07,840 Speaker 1: judge at trial to strike down the first aspect, and 53 00:03:07,880 --> 00:03:10,640 Speaker 1: there's it's an interesting split because there are two types 54 00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:13,040 Speaker 1: of searches involved here. The first one is called the 55 00:03:13,080 --> 00:03:16,480 Speaker 1: basic search of electronics. And of course we're only talking 56 00:03:16,520 --> 00:03:21,040 Speaker 1: about electronics now because the amount of information and privacy 57 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:23,720 Speaker 1: when they're going through your bags is limited. But when 58 00:03:23,720 --> 00:03:26,600 Speaker 1: they have your cell phone or your computers or your 59 00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:30,799 Speaker 1: your memory chips, any electronic device, The courts have said 60 00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:34,080 Speaker 1: since Riley versus California, where the court said, to search 61 00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:36,760 Speaker 1: the cell phone incident to arrest, you need a warrant. 62 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:40,640 Speaker 1: And that's because the amount of information about you, the 63 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:44,360 Speaker 1: privacy is astounding. We have an immense amount of personal 64 00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:47,440 Speaker 1: data that the government can get access to. So in 65 00:03:47,480 --> 00:03:50,280 Speaker 1: this case, the District Court said, as to the basic search, 66 00:03:50,480 --> 00:03:53,160 Speaker 1: which is limited to basically, what can happen when the 67 00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:56,880 Speaker 1: CB officer is holding up your phone. That requires reasonable 68 00:03:56,920 --> 00:03:59,640 Speaker 1: suspicion before he can do that. And then there's a 69 00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:02,080 Speaker 1: set and dairy level which we looked at years ago 70 00:04:02,200 --> 00:04:04,800 Speaker 1: June when we've looked at the US versus Cotterman case 71 00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:07,400 Speaker 1: in the Ninth Circuit, and that's where they take your 72 00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:10,960 Speaker 1: device and keep it up to some cases weeks and 73 00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:13,200 Speaker 1: they do what's called the forensic search on it. They 74 00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:16,400 Speaker 1: download all the information on your computer or yourself under 75 00:04:16,440 --> 00:04:21,000 Speaker 1: your tablet, and they subject that to very sophisticated analytic devices. 76 00:04:21,040 --> 00:04:23,880 Speaker 1: So there are two levels, the District Court said, as 77 00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:27,160 Speaker 1: to even the first one, the basic search, that requires 78 00:04:27,279 --> 00:04:31,840 Speaker 1: reasonable suspicion, not a warrant, not probable cause, but reasonable suspicion, 79 00:04:31,839 --> 00:04:34,279 Speaker 1: which basically means the government's got to have a pretty 80 00:04:34,279 --> 00:04:37,320 Speaker 1: good reason to interfere with the citizen at that level, 81 00:04:37,839 --> 00:04:40,200 Speaker 1: and that decision was seen as a real victory for 82 00:04:40,320 --> 00:04:44,640 Speaker 1: privacy advocates. But down appeal, the first Circuit came to 83 00:04:44,720 --> 00:04:49,680 Speaker 1: a very different conclusion, and that's where the first circuit reversed, 84 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:53,760 Speaker 1: holding that Nope, when you come into the country, at 85 00:04:53,839 --> 00:04:56,839 Speaker 1: least as to the basic search, a quick look through 86 00:04:56,880 --> 00:04:59,279 Speaker 1: your cell phone can be done by the officer without 87 00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:03,479 Speaker 1: any suspicion or reason, simply because he doesn't like to 88 00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:06,159 Speaker 1: look at you. So that's how it shook out. The 89 00:05:06,200 --> 00:05:09,960 Speaker 1: first circuit said, bottom line is that basic border searches 90 00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:13,719 Speaker 1: of electronic devices do not involve an intrusive search of 91 00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:17,479 Speaker 1: a person, and that warrantless electronic searches are essential to 92 00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:21,200 Speaker 1: protect the border. So, just to be clear, border agents 93 00:05:21,279 --> 00:05:24,760 Speaker 1: can turn on your phone or your laptop, scroll through 94 00:05:24,760 --> 00:05:29,760 Speaker 1: your personal information, perhaps confiscated without even thinking you did 95 00:05:29,839 --> 00:05:33,960 Speaker 1: something wrong. Absolutely right, We've understood that to be the law, 96 00:05:34,360 --> 00:05:36,520 Speaker 1: and the first circuit just went right back to it 97 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:38,600 Speaker 1: and affirmed that that is the law. By the way, 98 00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:41,479 Speaker 1: in most of the federal circuits there is interestingly a 99 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:44,080 Speaker 1: potential split of the Ninth Circuit, meaning of the Ninth 100 00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:46,919 Speaker 1: Circuit has a different holding with regard to at least 101 00:05:46,960 --> 00:05:49,479 Speaker 1: the cell phone. So that is something that makes it 102 00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:52,480 Speaker 1: more likely for the Supreme Court to grant search in 103 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:56,040 Speaker 1: this case. But no, that's absolutely right. When you leave 104 00:05:56,080 --> 00:05:58,640 Speaker 1: the country and you come back, be very careful what 105 00:05:58,680 --> 00:06:02,480 Speaker 1: you bring with you because any electronic device in your possession, 106 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:07,400 Speaker 1: mobile phone, tablet, computer is subject to being searched. And 107 00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:10,640 Speaker 1: in this case, they made the NaSTA engineer open his 108 00:06:10,760 --> 00:06:13,640 Speaker 1: mobile phone so they could look through the photographs, so 109 00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:15,840 Speaker 1: they could look through the text messages, that they could 110 00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:19,320 Speaker 1: look through emails. We have all of this amazing amount 111 00:06:19,320 --> 00:06:22,120 Speaker 1: of data on our cell phones. That was the argument 112 00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:25,320 Speaker 1: of the plaintiffs. Incredibly invasive. And the Court said, Nope, 113 00:06:25,839 --> 00:06:28,839 Speaker 1: the government at the border because quote has a zeno 114 00:06:29,080 --> 00:06:31,520 Speaker 1: of interest that our paramount, and we're going to allow 115 00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:34,400 Speaker 1: the government to do that under the Fourth Amendment. George, 116 00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:37,560 Speaker 1: you mentioned the Riley case where the Supreme Court required 117 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:41,159 Speaker 1: a warrant before police could search a suspect cell phone 118 00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:45,000 Speaker 1: after arrest because of all the personal information we have 119 00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:48,080 Speaker 1: on our cell phones. Now, if this case gets to 120 00:06:48,120 --> 00:06:51,760 Speaker 1: the Supreme Court, is there a chance that justices might 121 00:06:51,880 --> 00:06:55,640 Speaker 1: say the same goes for a cell phone at the border. Well, 122 00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:58,599 Speaker 1: there is a chance. That was the argument that the plaintiffs, 123 00:06:58,720 --> 00:07:01,440 Speaker 1: the a cl you were lying upon, and the case 124 00:07:01,480 --> 00:07:04,320 Speaker 1: that they just turned the opinion in. Here's a possibility 125 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:07,320 Speaker 1: that the Supreme Court will say, when we held in 126 00:07:07,520 --> 00:07:10,800 Speaker 1: Riley that a cell phone incident to arrest, that's another 127 00:07:10,880 --> 00:07:14,120 Speaker 1: exception to the warrant requirement. And where the government can 128 00:07:14,160 --> 00:07:17,000 Speaker 1: seize and search that cellphone, it needs to have PC 129 00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:21,800 Speaker 1: and a warrant. They could extend Riley's holding to border searches. 130 00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:24,560 Speaker 1: There's no indication, by the way, and at least looking 131 00:07:24,600 --> 00:07:27,440 Speaker 1: at the federal circuits, the courts have any inclination to 132 00:07:27,480 --> 00:07:29,640 Speaker 1: do that. But the Supreme Court could do that. Of course, 133 00:07:29,680 --> 00:07:32,280 Speaker 1: we have a new composition on the Supreme Court, and 134 00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:35,680 Speaker 1: I remind everyone that there is a conservative majority, but 135 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:39,160 Speaker 1: one of the most conservative justices in the last twenty years, 136 00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:42,080 Speaker 1: Justice Scalia, and he rest in peace, did come out 137 00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:45,240 Speaker 1: with some surprising decisions when it came to the Fourth Amendment, 138 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:47,800 Speaker 1: and he was a firm believer of the government needed 139 00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:52,080 Speaker 1: to be at times restrained. Thanks George, that's George newhouse 140 00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:56,880 Speaker 1: of Richard's Carrington. The Boss met the man by zoomed. 141 00:07:57,240 --> 00:08:01,200 Speaker 1: The Garden State's favorite son, Bruce Springsteen, appeared via zoom 142 00:08:01,280 --> 00:08:05,080 Speaker 1: before a federal judge on drunk driving charges. Police had 143 00:08:05,120 --> 00:08:07,960 Speaker 1: stopped the rock star on his motorcycle at the Jersey 144 00:08:08,040 --> 00:08:11,760 Speaker 1: Shore in mid November. The drunk driving and reckless driving 145 00:08:11,840 --> 00:08:15,800 Speaker 1: charges were dropped and Springsteen pleaded guilty to possession of 146 00:08:15,840 --> 00:08:19,640 Speaker 1: alcohol in a closed area. Joining me is Peter Jeffrey, 147 00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:23,960 Speaker 1: Bloomberg News Legal Editor. So what happened in court today, Peter, So, 148 00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:28,320 Speaker 1: Springsteen created guilty today to possession of alcohol in a 149 00:08:28,400 --> 00:08:32,400 Speaker 1: closed area, which is a mist demeanor. Well, it happened 150 00:08:32,440 --> 00:08:35,640 Speaker 1: basically was that in November he was getting on his 151 00:08:35,679 --> 00:08:38,480 Speaker 1: bike or on his on his motorcycle, and he had 152 00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:43,160 Speaker 1: some tequila and he was approached by an officer and 153 00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:48,840 Speaker 1: he was arrested. And he appeared in Borough court today 154 00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:53,960 Speaker 1: and he did not wind up. The prosecutors dropped two 155 00:08:53,960 --> 00:08:58,520 Speaker 1: other charges, driving while intoxicated and reckless driving, and in 156 00:08:58,600 --> 00:09:03,079 Speaker 1: the end the judge by Springsteen five dollars. And there 157 00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:06,439 Speaker 1: was kind of a funny moment when the judge asked 158 00:09:06,520 --> 00:09:10,360 Speaker 1: him how long he needed to pay Springsteen said, oh, 159 00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:13,760 Speaker 1: I can pay that immediately, your honor. So that's what happened. 160 00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:16,600 Speaker 1: And you know, this has been such a big local 161 00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:19,880 Speaker 1: and national and maybe even beyond that set of headlines. 162 00:09:19,920 --> 00:09:25,080 Speaker 1: She's November. It turns out that Springsteen's blood alcohol level 163 00:09:25,280 --> 00:09:29,280 Speaker 1: was point oh two percent, and in New Jersey, the 164 00:09:29,400 --> 00:09:33,600 Speaker 1: threshold for impairments point eight percent. So Springsteen's blood alcohol 165 00:09:33,679 --> 00:09:36,520 Speaker 1: level was well below that. But it came at an 166 00:09:36,559 --> 00:09:39,120 Speaker 1: awkward time because you may recalled it during the Super 167 00:09:39,160 --> 00:09:44,360 Speaker 1: Bowl JEEP aired UM an add starring Springsteen. Um the 168 00:09:44,480 --> 00:09:47,800 Speaker 1: kind of in his austere mode of looking towards the 169 00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:51,600 Speaker 1: future and calling the nation together for unity. Uh. So 170 00:09:52,040 --> 00:09:54,760 Speaker 1: you know this following that by just a few days 171 00:09:54,920 --> 00:09:57,480 Speaker 1: was awkward to say in the least, was there any 172 00:09:57,960 --> 00:10:02,040 Speaker 1: explanation for why he was charge with drunk driving when 173 00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:06,880 Speaker 1: his blood alcohol level was lower than the state limit? Well, 174 00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:08,800 Speaker 1: you know, I'm going to just to sure what. You know, 175 00:10:09,080 --> 00:10:14,079 Speaker 1: it's it's not unusual for prosecutors to bring several charges. Um. 176 00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:18,560 Speaker 1: Sometimes they did at charges, but they can also subtract them. Um. 177 00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:21,680 Speaker 1: You know, there there was the encounter with Springsteen and 178 00:10:21,720 --> 00:10:26,920 Speaker 1: the officer, uh involved the officer on foot patrol. See 179 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:29,920 Speaker 1: Springsteen drink a shot of tequila, get on his red 180 00:10:29,920 --> 00:10:34,040 Speaker 1: and silver Triumph, start the engine approaches him. Uh. Springsteen 181 00:10:34,080 --> 00:10:36,760 Speaker 1: did not want to take a blood alcohol test, but 182 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:39,880 Speaker 1: later did at a ranger station. So not exactly sure 183 00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:42,120 Speaker 1: the sequence of events or why the charges went away. 184 00:10:42,160 --> 00:10:44,720 Speaker 1: They did. But again, it's not unusual to bring a 185 00:10:44,760 --> 00:10:48,840 Speaker 1: set of charges and then you know, make a deal. Uh, 186 00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:52,840 Speaker 1: sometimes in the courtroom, sometimes just before. And what happens 187 00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:56,160 Speaker 1: here is that the prosecutors said to the judge, you know, 188 00:10:56,200 --> 00:10:58,520 Speaker 1: we we'd like to They asked the judge staff the 189 00:10:58,559 --> 00:11:01,920 Speaker 1: court for permission to the Smith's the drunk driving and 190 00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:06,559 Speaker 1: reckest driving charges. Uh, and Sprinsing agreed to plead guilty 191 00:11:06,679 --> 00:11:09,840 Speaker 1: to a possession of alcohol in the close area. So, Peter, 192 00:11:09,920 --> 00:11:12,960 Speaker 1: let's turn down to the battle of the exercise bikes. 193 00:11:13,559 --> 00:11:16,960 Speaker 1: Peloton Interactive beat back an effort by the maker of 194 00:11:17,080 --> 00:11:21,160 Speaker 1: Nordic Tract exercise bikes to block US sales of its 195 00:11:21,280 --> 00:11:25,240 Speaker 1: bike Plus. Icon Health and Fitness had asked the court 196 00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:29,160 Speaker 1: to temporarily bar Peloton from selling the Bike Plus with 197 00:11:29,280 --> 00:11:34,319 Speaker 1: its auto follow feature, which automatically changes resistance levels during classes. 198 00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:37,120 Speaker 1: So tell us a little bit about this battle of 199 00:11:37,160 --> 00:11:42,120 Speaker 1: the bikes. It's a big battle because partly because a 200 00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:45,080 Speaker 1: lot of people wanna um spin at home in the 201 00:11:45,120 --> 00:11:51,440 Speaker 1: pandemic and um Peloton has any number of lawsuits on 202 00:11:51,480 --> 00:11:53,800 Speaker 1: its hands that it has brought some that has been 203 00:11:53,840 --> 00:11:57,920 Speaker 1: brought against it. Basically what happened is on on Monday, 204 00:11:58,400 --> 00:12:03,160 Speaker 1: well well so more detracts owner a company called Icon 205 00:12:03,240 --> 00:12:09,520 Speaker 1: Health and Business has sued Peloton in October and um 206 00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:13,079 Speaker 1: for patent infringes and said that there were a number 207 00:12:13,120 --> 00:12:16,000 Speaker 1: of patents that that Icon, that it's more detracted owner 208 00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:18,920 Speaker 1: held that Peleton had ripped off and that Ion has 209 00:12:18,920 --> 00:12:21,160 Speaker 1: been in this business more attracted in this business for 210 00:12:21,240 --> 00:12:24,040 Speaker 1: a long time. And one of those paths has to 211 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:27,719 Speaker 1: do with automatically adjusting resistance and one of them has 212 00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:31,880 Speaker 1: to do with some sort of beautiful mixture of aerobic 213 00:12:31,880 --> 00:12:35,400 Speaker 1: and a seamless combination of aerobic and anaerobic exercise. So 214 00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:38,600 Speaker 1: these are patents that Icon holds, and it's sued Peleton 215 00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:43,520 Speaker 1: in October, and then on Monday, the federal judge denied 216 00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:49,760 Speaker 1: Icon's request that that the judge block uh bike Plus, 217 00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:53,480 Speaker 1: which is the new hot Pelton products from from shipping 218 00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:57,400 Speaker 1: out block that better actually block it, or take away 219 00:12:57,440 --> 00:13:01,720 Speaker 1: the or suspend the auto follow that's the resistance feature, 220 00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:04,319 Speaker 1: at least to spend that Icon act And the judge 221 00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:08,120 Speaker 1: said no. The judge said, you have not shown a 222 00:13:08,200 --> 00:13:11,120 Speaker 1: likelihood of success on the merits of your client or 223 00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:16,000 Speaker 1: irreparable harm to you from from Peloton's use of these technologies. 224 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:18,320 Speaker 1: So the judge is not over. But the judge said, 225 00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:22,400 Speaker 1: I'm I'm not willing to block by pluck. So Pelton 226 00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:25,319 Speaker 1: had a little bit of a victory on Monday. So 227 00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:30,199 Speaker 1: these two companies, Peloton and Icon have clashed before. This 228 00:13:30,440 --> 00:13:34,920 Speaker 1: comes after UM Peloton sued Icon no where's the other 229 00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:40,560 Speaker 1: way around? Last May and UM so in in May, 230 00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:45,160 Speaker 1: Peloton sued Icon saying that it copied, it interacted fitness programs, 231 00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:49,760 Speaker 1: and lied in advertising to undercut, to undercut Peloton, you know, 232 00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:52,280 Speaker 1: basically teltimes saying that Icon is trying to have a 233 00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:57,240 Speaker 1: free ride of Peloton technology. Icon saying we've been around forever, 234 00:13:57,360 --> 00:14:00,199 Speaker 1: we have you know, all of these patents and in 235 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:04,120 Speaker 1: in fact, um it's're interesting in June because because um 236 00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:08,920 Speaker 1: Jampson best on over on Boomberg Intelligence UH technology Analysts. 237 00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:13,760 Speaker 1: UM wrote just yesterday that Peloton has. He could have 238 00:14:13,800 --> 00:14:16,280 Speaker 1: an until climates he puts it to win these suits. 239 00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:20,480 Speaker 1: H it's I p portfolio is small, he said, And 240 00:14:20,600 --> 00:14:23,760 Speaker 1: so it's not entirely clear what's going to shake out, 241 00:14:23,760 --> 00:14:28,680 Speaker 1: like everybody's doing. Everybody is this case then going to 242 00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:31,040 Speaker 1: be joined with the other case and they're all they're 243 00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:36,120 Speaker 1: both going to go to trial. Unclear whether they'll go 244 00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:41,400 Speaker 1: to trial. It depends on whether there's a settlement ahead 245 00:14:41,400 --> 00:14:46,440 Speaker 1: of that. They are two separate suits. Um Uh, very 246 00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:49,840 Speaker 1: good question. I think right now they remained two separate suits. 247 00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:51,840 Speaker 1: I guess thought I made it said counter suit only 248 00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:55,080 Speaker 1: because Peleton quite Icon in May and I taught icons 249 00:14:55,280 --> 00:14:59,000 Speaker 1: Pelton October. But if you can stand to hear it, 250 00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:02,920 Speaker 1: it goes that further than that because earlier on years 251 00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:06,440 Speaker 1: before Icon se Peloton, it's just been going back and forth. 252 00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:09,600 Speaker 1: And again it's because of this hot, hot market, not 253 00:15:09,800 --> 00:15:12,680 Speaker 1: just because of the pandemic. I mean, it's it's a 254 00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:16,640 Speaker 1: very desirable product, but um, but the pandemic has added 255 00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:20,280 Speaker 1: to its desirability in factor. When when when Peloton went 256 00:15:20,360 --> 00:15:23,680 Speaker 1: public in the part, it was September two, nineteen, I 257 00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:25,680 Speaker 1: don't know if you recall it was along with a 258 00:15:25,720 --> 00:15:28,640 Speaker 1: bunch of other big tech companies. Was it uber and 259 00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:31,520 Speaker 1: left back then too, But Peloton had a terrible out 260 00:15:31,560 --> 00:15:35,440 Speaker 1: it with its idea in the fall. Um uh, it 261 00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:38,120 Speaker 1: did not get to pop. Quite the opposite. And now 262 00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:41,120 Speaker 1: the stock is booming, so I mean it's probably got 263 00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:43,560 Speaker 1: it's probably got it may you should say I've got 264 00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:46,880 Speaker 1: knocked down during the texture veils for the last few days. 265 00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:49,360 Speaker 1: But it's been booming, so you know, it's a very 266 00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:52,840 Speaker 1: hot business. Well also, I mean a Peloton settled a 267 00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:57,120 Speaker 1: patent infringement lawsuit earlier with Flywheels, so it's not just 268 00:15:57,320 --> 00:16:03,600 Speaker 1: these two bike makers, no, that's right. In fact, in fact, 269 00:16:04,160 --> 00:16:09,320 Speaker 1: Peloton also sued a company called Echelon, and that sue 270 00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:14,400 Speaker 1: is still going on as just this week on Monday, 271 00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:19,920 Speaker 1: Achalon was sued by a company called Farragon, which is 272 00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:23,640 Speaker 1: now called sued. When it was called Paragon, it's called Parobody. 273 00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:27,560 Speaker 1: It's a it's a massage therapy device company that that 274 00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:32,680 Speaker 1: improves among its investors Green Bay Packers, Quarterback, and Rodgers. 275 00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:40,520 Speaker 1: But just um this week, um on Monday, um Echelon 276 00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:44,600 Speaker 1: was sued by this body company. So it's quite a 277 00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:48,600 Speaker 1: quite a scrum. I also saw that Peloton is being 278 00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:52,360 Speaker 1: sued for patent infringement by Mad Dog Athletics. That's that's 279 00:16:52,360 --> 00:16:54,360 Speaker 1: a lone running one. I was just going to talk 280 00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:59,160 Speaker 1: about that. Yet Mad Doll Athletics, which owns registration trademark 281 00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:02,320 Speaker 1: registrations of the words spin and spinning when it comes 282 00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:07,399 Speaker 1: to exercise UM has is locked in the battle with 283 00:17:07,560 --> 00:17:14,160 Speaker 1: Peletron as well, uh, the trademark office. So it's um 284 00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:16,679 Speaker 1: it's really quite it's really quite interesting and said one 285 00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:18,359 Speaker 1: of the interesting things to you about it in this 286 00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:22,000 Speaker 1: litigation it came it came to um uh, it was 287 00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:25,160 Speaker 1: revealed that I think I think it's average. I believe 288 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:27,439 Speaker 1: it's average. Is the measure we're talking about here, that 289 00:17:27,600 --> 00:17:32,000 Speaker 1: the average customer for Icon again that's not a traps maker, 290 00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:34,879 Speaker 1: sticks with them for nine years and the average customer 291 00:17:34,920 --> 00:17:38,360 Speaker 1: for Peloton thirteen years. So you know, if you if 292 00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:41,520 Speaker 1: your Icon and you feel like your patent is getting 293 00:17:41,560 --> 00:17:45,080 Speaker 1: infringed by this giant Peloton, and you lose a customer 294 00:17:45,119 --> 00:17:47,840 Speaker 1: because of that, you use that customer for a decade, 295 00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:50,719 Speaker 1: so that you know, as they say, the stakes are hot. 296 00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:54,879 Speaker 1: Thanks for being on the Bloomberg glosshow Peter, that's Peter. Jeffrey, 297 00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:58,640 Speaker 1: Bloomberg News Legal editor, Monday's ruling doesn't mean the bike 298 00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:02,359 Speaker 1: will flow freely to the market. Peloton said on February 299 00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:05,600 Speaker 1: five and its quarterly earnings report that although it had 300 00:18:05,640 --> 00:18:09,440 Speaker 1: significantly increased bike and bike plus production over the last 301 00:18:09,480 --> 00:18:14,560 Speaker 1: several months, supplies remained constrained, with longer than acceptable wait times.