1
00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:03,120
Speaker 1: Welcome to Worst Year Ever, A production of I Heart

2
00:00:03,240 --> 00:00:26,079
Speaker 1: Radio Together Everything, So don't don't what's fucking my police? Obviously?

3
00:00:26,280 --> 00:00:31,760
Speaker 1: What's sucking them America? Yeah, A long history of picgoted uh,

4
00:00:31,840 --> 00:00:38,200
Speaker 1: law enforcement violence um uh, media that uh gives people

5
00:00:38,240 --> 00:00:42,240
Speaker 1: unreasonable expectations and understandings of the efficacy of law enforcement

6
00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:49,519
Speaker 1: investigations and the necessity of the same um structural inequalities. Uh.

7
00:00:49,560 --> 00:00:51,920
Speaker 1: And of course the desire of capital to protect itself

8
00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:54,840
Speaker 1: using violence. Uh. Those are all the things that are

9
00:00:55,040 --> 00:01:01,440
Speaker 1: sucking the I it's the worst. Really catch intro. Thank you.

10
00:01:03,200 --> 00:01:07,200
Speaker 1: I'm going to out there. Yeah yeah, yeah, I have

11
00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:10,360
Speaker 1: it tattooed on my taint. UM where I put all

12
00:01:10,400 --> 00:01:15,240
Speaker 1: true things. That sounds painful. It's extremely painful, Katie. But

13
00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:19,280
Speaker 1: the truth, the truth hurt. Oh. We did it, we

14
00:01:19,319 --> 00:01:21,840
Speaker 1: did We really did great. How are you all doing? Uh?

15
00:01:21,840 --> 00:01:27,240
Speaker 1: And in week two of the general uprising sort of thing,

16
00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:37,720
Speaker 1: We're all and feeling pretty hopeful and positive. I'm also exhausted,

17
00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:42,759
Speaker 1: and I feel like I feel guilty saying that, because

18
00:01:42,920 --> 00:01:46,480
Speaker 1: that's nothing compared to what so many people are feeling.

19
00:01:46,959 --> 00:01:50,240
Speaker 1: But that is the honest truth. Uh, it's a it's

20
00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:53,320
Speaker 1: a mixed bag of those things. UM and I and

21
00:01:53,360 --> 00:01:57,280
Speaker 1: I say the exhausted thing though, because this is a marathon,

22
00:01:57,360 --> 00:02:01,200
Speaker 1: not a sprint. Um. There is a lot of work

23
00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:05,080
Speaker 1: and sustained effort that needs to be maintained. And so

24
00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:07,800
Speaker 1: we've got to be able to be honest with ourselves

25
00:02:07,840 --> 00:02:12,720
Speaker 1: and and and keep ourselves healthy for this. You know, Yeah,

26
00:02:12,880 --> 00:02:16,119
Speaker 1: I am. After the first nine days, I was out

27
00:02:16,160 --> 00:02:18,880
Speaker 1: eight nights for like eight hours every night, and I'm

28
00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:21,040
Speaker 1: taking a few nights off to right because if we

29
00:02:21,080 --> 00:02:22,919
Speaker 1: have a new podcast series we're putting together about the

30
00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:27,040
Speaker 1: history of the police. Um and um, like it's this.

31
00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:30,320
Speaker 1: As soon as I stopped, I started having like these

32
00:02:30,720 --> 00:02:33,440
Speaker 1: like violent mood swings, like not violent towards people, but

33
00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:36,920
Speaker 1: just like right like, I wound up leaving my house because, um,

34
00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:39,240
Speaker 1: I have a friend staying with me and I just

35
00:02:39,320 --> 00:02:42,160
Speaker 1: needed to like get annoyed at traffic and scream at

36
00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:45,200
Speaker 1: people from inside my car, um, because I didn't want

37
00:02:45,200 --> 00:02:46,960
Speaker 1: to like be around. I don't want to be like

38
00:02:47,080 --> 00:02:50,359
Speaker 1: inflicting my personality on other people. While I was like

39
00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:52,600
Speaker 1: and it's sort of like there, it's it's kind of

40
00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:55,560
Speaker 1: the when you take a shipload of aggression and I'm

41
00:02:55,560 --> 00:02:57,280
Speaker 1: sure a lot of people listening right now have been

42
00:02:57,320 --> 00:03:02,520
Speaker 1: the on the receiving end of stream militarized aggression for

43
00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:05,360
Speaker 1: the first time in their lives. Like when when that happens,

44
00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:08,360
Speaker 1: there's a point at which kind of like the anger

45
00:03:08,440 --> 00:03:11,639
Speaker 1: you feel internally over that, we will generally bubble out.

46
00:03:11,639 --> 00:03:13,440
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna say that happens to everybody, but it's

47
00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:17,280
Speaker 1: certainly like, this is not my first time dealing with this,

48
00:03:17,440 --> 00:03:20,960
Speaker 1: and it does happen on the other end. So yeah,

49
00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:23,320
Speaker 1: I'm just trying to, like I want to, like, I'm

50
00:03:23,400 --> 00:03:26,040
Speaker 1: very frustrated because I wasn't out last night and one

51
00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:28,440
Speaker 1: of my um one of my my stringers, one of

52
00:03:28,480 --> 00:03:31,600
Speaker 1: my um MY team members, the journalists that I've been

53
00:03:31,600 --> 00:03:34,720
Speaker 1: working with on the ground, got arrested for asking a

54
00:03:34,720 --> 00:03:37,840
Speaker 1: police officer his name, and it's on video. Her press

55
00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:40,120
Speaker 1: pass is visible the whole time, like all she's doing

56
00:03:40,200 --> 00:03:42,760
Speaker 1: is filming and arrest, which she has a legal, constitutionally

57
00:03:42,800 --> 00:03:45,880
Speaker 1: guaranteed right to do. UM and asks a police officer

58
00:03:45,960 --> 00:03:48,640
Speaker 1: his name because he is again illegally covering his name,

59
00:03:49,080 --> 00:03:51,000
Speaker 1: and he UM he arrested her and she just got

60
00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:52,760
Speaker 1: a citation. We got her out and we're going to

61
00:03:52,880 --> 00:03:57,640
Speaker 1: fight the citation because they had no grounds to arrest her. Um.

62
00:03:57,680 --> 00:04:01,160
Speaker 1: But uh, it's yeah, And like today our police chief resigned,

63
00:04:01,160 --> 00:04:02,760
Speaker 1: and I think that the fact that, like there was

64
00:04:02,760 --> 00:04:04,560
Speaker 1: a shipload of violence against the press. Over the last

65
00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:07,720
Speaker 1: couple of days, two of my colleagues got really fucked up.

66
00:04:07,720 --> 00:04:09,920
Speaker 1: One of them was based in the eyes and thrown

67
00:04:09,920 --> 00:04:14,040
Speaker 1: to the ground. Another caught Portland's police kneeling on a

68
00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:16,839
Speaker 1: woman's neck while arresting her, which obviously is the kind

69
00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:20,400
Speaker 1: of police violence that sparked a lot of this. Um.

70
00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:24,080
Speaker 1: And he started filming that and the police shoved him back,

71
00:04:24,240 --> 00:04:26,800
Speaker 1: knocked him down, and then beat him on the legs

72
00:04:26,839 --> 00:04:29,080
Speaker 1: with sticks. Um. And this was all filmed by a

73
00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:35,520
Speaker 1: news helicopter. So it's like pretty cool. I said this

74
00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:40,520
Speaker 1: to you guys before we were recording. But it's wild

75
00:04:40,560 --> 00:04:42,640
Speaker 1: to me. I guess it's not wild to me, not

76
00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:46,760
Speaker 1: after everything we've been learning over the past many years.

77
00:04:46,800 --> 00:04:49,839
Speaker 1: But couple of weeks is how some cities are just

78
00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:55,039
Speaker 1: really doubling down on the fucking bad mistakes. I mean

79
00:04:55,040 --> 00:05:00,680
Speaker 1: the police specifically, whereas other cities have you know, they've

80
00:05:00,760 --> 00:05:06,200
Speaker 1: they've withdrawn troops and they've taken a step back, and

81
00:05:06,360 --> 00:05:12,920
Speaker 1: the peaceful protests have blossomed. Uh, and you know, the

82
00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:18,000
Speaker 1: violent looting has subsided, you know, but but other places,

83
00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:22,800
Speaker 1: like where you are, that is not so. Yeah, And

84
00:05:22,839 --> 00:05:24,960
Speaker 1: I have, I mean, I have some strong feelings on

85
00:05:25,080 --> 00:05:26,920
Speaker 1: kind of the way these things are framed. For one thing,

86
00:05:26,920 --> 00:05:30,760
Speaker 1: I don't consider looting to be don't either, um, because

87
00:05:30,839 --> 00:05:39,480
Speaker 1: property cannot experience violence. Nobody could see me doing air quotes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, nobody, nobody.

88
00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:42,719
Speaker 1: I keep seeing people like frame it like looting and writing,

89
00:05:42,880 --> 00:05:45,120
Speaker 1: like all these things are like together or evil. I

90
00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:49,280
Speaker 1: don't think any of those people would call shoplifting an

91
00:05:49,279 --> 00:05:55,200
Speaker 1: act of violence. But the store is closed, beating protesters

92
00:05:55,279 --> 00:05:58,640
Speaker 1: is violent. The fucking CEO of Target even came out

93
00:05:58,680 --> 00:06:00,800
Speaker 1: and was like, I'm a billion there. I could like

94
00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:03,480
Speaker 1: literally pay for all the damage done to our stores

95
00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:07,159
Speaker 1: and wouldn't notice it. Like it's yeah, it's okay. I

96
00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:10,360
Speaker 1: have Target stores in my pockets right now. Yeah, like

97
00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:14,440
Speaker 1: it's it's it really is fine. Target will be all right, Yes,

98
00:06:14,480 --> 00:06:17,840
Speaker 1: I do. I do feel bad for small businesses that

99
00:06:18,120 --> 00:06:23,800
Speaker 1: cannot recoup losses completely. That sucks, but it's not violence.

100
00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:27,479
Speaker 1: But anyway, it's not the same as. Yeah, you know,

101
00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:30,919
Speaker 1: like a young woman died because the police tear gassed

102
00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:33,240
Speaker 1: her and it closed her lungs off. And if you have,

103
00:06:33,320 --> 00:06:35,080
Speaker 1: if you've ever been in a tear gas cloud, that

104
00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:38,000
Speaker 1: is the the blinding and the pain sucks, But when

105
00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:40,560
Speaker 1: your lungs closed, especially if you're still as I was,

106
00:06:40,600 --> 00:06:42,679
Speaker 1: in a couple of situations like sprinting for a while

107
00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:46,760
Speaker 1: without being able to breathe, Like it's terrifying and disorienting

108
00:06:47,160 --> 00:06:50,159
Speaker 1: and sometimes people don't get to breathe again. Like that's

109
00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:52,360
Speaker 1: the reality of the fucking tear gas that our police

110
00:06:52,360 --> 00:06:56,919
Speaker 1: have been housing streets in during a pandemic during that

111
00:06:57,000 --> 00:07:01,400
Speaker 1: affects your respiratory system. Gotta love using chemical weapons that

112
00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:04,919
Speaker 1: target your respiratory system during a pandemic or a disease

113
00:07:04,960 --> 00:07:11,000
Speaker 1: that targets your respiratory system. Very responsible policing, responsible, um,

114
00:07:11,680 --> 00:07:16,800
Speaker 1: It is wild to me. Also, I wouldn't know how

115
00:07:16,880 --> 00:07:20,920
Speaker 1: violent the Portland's police have been during this if it

116
00:07:20,960 --> 00:07:23,480
Speaker 1: wasn't for you and and the people on the ground

117
00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:27,080
Speaker 1: with you, because the coverage of it on the news

118
00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:30,440
Speaker 1: is not there. Yeah, there's some element to which it's

119
00:07:30,440 --> 00:07:32,960
Speaker 1: starting to be. But like our our local news has

120
00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:35,880
Speaker 1: been like has been like drying a separation between the

121
00:07:36,040 --> 00:07:40,840
Speaker 1: this crowd of demonstrators who chant peaceful protests repeatedly, and

122
00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:44,720
Speaker 1: all they do is march from one building across a

123
00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:47,640
Speaker 1: bridge and hang out and talk for a while and

124
00:07:47,640 --> 00:07:50,800
Speaker 1: then march back and nothing happens, and it doesn't really

125
00:07:50,840 --> 00:07:53,960
Speaker 1: even take any police resources. And this crowd that assembols

126
00:07:53,960 --> 00:07:55,560
Speaker 1: in front and what's been happening for nights is this

127
00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:58,680
Speaker 1: credible assembol in front of the Justice Center. Um. They

128
00:07:58,720 --> 00:08:01,320
Speaker 1: will heckle and yell at the police. The police have

129
00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:05,000
Speaker 1: pulled back mostly inside the Justice Center. Occasionally people will

130
00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:07,800
Speaker 1: throw water bottles over. What happened the last night I

131
00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:11,200
Speaker 1: was at was the police actually uh, They announced that

132
00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:13,840
Speaker 1: they had seen projectiles in the crowd, did not define

133
00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:17,080
Speaker 1: what those projectiles were, and then began firing projectiles into

134
00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:19,160
Speaker 1: the crowd. And once the police start shooting into the crowd,

135
00:08:19,320 --> 00:08:22,520
Speaker 1: people start throwing water bottles back at them. Um. And

136
00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:25,480
Speaker 1: when the police got tired, they started firing heavier munitions

137
00:08:25,480 --> 00:08:28,040
Speaker 1: into the crowd, and somebody threw a couple of fireworks

138
00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:30,120
Speaker 1: into the police side to obscure their line of sight

139
00:08:30,200 --> 00:08:31,800
Speaker 1: to make it harder for them to hit people. With

140
00:08:31,840 --> 00:08:34,960
Speaker 1: the projectile munitions, the rubber bullets and the phone bullets.

141
00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:37,560
Speaker 1: They were shooting into the crowd at random. Um. And

142
00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:39,319
Speaker 1: then the police were able to claim it was a

143
00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:43,880
Speaker 1: violent protest because two officers got injured by a firework

144
00:08:43,880 --> 00:08:46,199
Speaker 1: that was thrown at the officers. After again officers were

145
00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:49,839
Speaker 1: filing firing wildly into the crowd. It's very frustrating. But

146
00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:54,800
Speaker 1: if your protest isn't exhausting the police, isn't costing them manpower,

147
00:08:54,960 --> 00:08:58,800
Speaker 1: isn't running the department out of money. Um, you're not

148
00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:02,400
Speaker 1: doing anything, is my opinion on the matter. If I was,

149
00:09:02,480 --> 00:09:04,760
Speaker 1: if I was allowed to have an opinion as a journalist, yeah,

150
00:09:04,760 --> 00:09:09,760
Speaker 1: then it's just a parade. Um. Yeah, anyway, you're allowed

151
00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:14,880
Speaker 1: to have an opinion as a journalist. Okay, Yeah, So yeah,

152
00:09:15,040 --> 00:09:19,040
Speaker 1: we're in cool times, as I don't know, we're like

153
00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:21,760
Speaker 1: right on the edge. There's so much like fucking tragedy

154
00:09:21,800 --> 00:09:23,800
Speaker 1: and hope in the air right now, because like you're

155
00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:25,920
Speaker 1: hearing about you know, Minneappolis, when we'll be talking to

156
00:09:25,960 --> 00:09:29,000
Speaker 1: someone from Minneapples later, like Minneapolis talking about just like

157
00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:32,440
Speaker 1: removing their police department entirely. Um. In Portland, we've even

158
00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:34,760
Speaker 1: made some major changes. They've announced that they're like disbanding

159
00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:38,240
Speaker 1: the Gun Violence Task Force and the Gang Crime Task Force, which, like,

160
00:09:39,040 --> 00:09:41,120
Speaker 1: I think people who don't know much about law enforcement

161
00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:42,280
Speaker 1: would be like, oh, but then there's going to be

162
00:09:42,320 --> 00:09:44,240
Speaker 1: more gun crime. It's like, no, the Gun Crime Task

163
00:09:44,280 --> 00:09:46,679
Speaker 1: Force causes more gun crime than it does prevent it.

164
00:09:46,760 --> 00:09:49,760
Speaker 1: Like they shoot a lot of people. Um, maybe we

165
00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:53,480
Speaker 1: shouldn't have them. Um. And they've removed Portland's police officers

166
00:09:53,520 --> 00:09:56,240
Speaker 1: from Portland's schools, which is good. Um. And you're seeing

167
00:09:56,240 --> 00:10:00,000
Speaker 1: stuff like that in a number of American cities now. Um,

168
00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:03,560
Speaker 1: you know, Los Angeles is cutting what is I would say,

169
00:10:03,559 --> 00:10:05,720
Speaker 1: not a huge chunk of the overall police budget, because

170
00:10:05,720 --> 00:10:08,080
Speaker 1: the l a p D budget is fucking outrageous, but

171
00:10:08,120 --> 00:10:15,840
Speaker 1: it's it's a sliver, but it is, Yes, and most

172
00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:19,280
Speaker 1: a lot of large cities, the police funding is as

173
00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:22,959
Speaker 1: much as the funding for every other city service put together, um,

174
00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:25,679
Speaker 1: if not much more. Um So while that what is

175
00:10:25,679 --> 00:10:30,000
Speaker 1: a hullion dollars, they're kind Yeah, it's not an enormous

176
00:10:30,040 --> 00:10:31,800
Speaker 1: chunk of the l a p D budget. It's a

177
00:10:31,880 --> 00:10:35,480
Speaker 1: huge chunk of the money that goes to other things

178
00:10:35,520 --> 00:10:38,320
Speaker 1: that the city of l A provides. Um, and it's

179
00:10:38,320 --> 00:10:41,640
Speaker 1: a start. You know, we should trim, let's say, of

180
00:10:41,679 --> 00:10:45,520
Speaker 1: the l A p DS budget. But I do think

181
00:10:45,520 --> 00:10:48,040
Speaker 1: that progress has to be a take what you can

182
00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:50,439
Speaker 1: get sort of thing, as long as it's not like, oh,

183
00:10:50,480 --> 00:10:52,679
Speaker 1: we got a little bit, now, let's all start at

184
00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:56,760
Speaker 1: stop agitating. Like that's if that is what happens, then

185
00:10:56,880 --> 00:10:59,440
Speaker 1: then it's a failure. Well that was a fear, but

186
00:10:59,640 --> 00:11:03,520
Speaker 1: I don't see that happening. Yeah, I mean it's it's

187
00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:06,120
Speaker 1: it's early to tell, but yeah, yesterday Hollywood got like

188
00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:09,480
Speaker 1: what ten thousand people marching through fucking Hollywood, and yeah,

189
00:11:09,679 --> 00:11:13,280
Speaker 1: and Saturday, I mean everywhere. I mean over the weekend

190
00:11:13,280 --> 00:11:16,559
Speaker 1: in Los Angeles, you could drive to every different neighborhood

191
00:11:16,640 --> 00:11:21,079
Speaker 1: and find community action happening. You could find protests being organized.

192
00:11:21,520 --> 00:11:25,560
Speaker 1: It's pretty inspiring. Philly was enormous, even like, yeah, like

193
00:11:25,640 --> 00:11:28,440
Speaker 1: little towns. I keep saying, um, I saying before we

194
00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:32,280
Speaker 1: start recording, I was, I keep seeing people post like, uh,

195
00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:34,880
Speaker 1: these small protests and like these smaller towns and like

196
00:11:34,920 --> 00:11:38,440
Speaker 1: Texas and places, and being like I grew up in

197
00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:43,040
Speaker 1: this town and it is fucking wild that people are

198
00:11:43,040 --> 00:11:46,960
Speaker 1: protesting about this in that town. Yeah, and more and

199
00:11:47,000 --> 00:11:48,480
Speaker 1: more and more and more things like that of like

200
00:11:48,559 --> 00:11:51,200
Speaker 1: not even not just the massive places in these big cities,

201
00:11:51,240 --> 00:11:55,600
Speaker 1: but just like these little pockets. We wouldn't expect that

202
00:11:55,760 --> 00:12:00,640
Speaker 1: kind of upswell of of support mm hmm. Yeah. And

203
00:12:01,160 --> 00:12:07,800
Speaker 1: today the House Democrats UM unveilable police. They took a knee,

204
00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:13,520
Speaker 1: but they also and they wore those sashes. There's a

205
00:12:13,559 --> 00:12:16,280
Speaker 1: better word for them. I don't know. They they they

206
00:12:16,400 --> 00:12:19,320
Speaker 1: culturally appropriated the ship out of some stuff. It was

207
00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:22,080
Speaker 1: it was I mean, it was apparently planned by the

208
00:12:22,120 --> 00:12:28,600
Speaker 1: Black Caucus, but that photo is. But they they unveiled

209
00:12:28,600 --> 00:12:32,640
Speaker 1: a police reform bill that has some things in there

210
00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:37,839
Speaker 1: that have been discussed. Uh, defunding the police is not

211
00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:44,280
Speaker 1: one of them. Um. Also this who knows what this

212
00:12:44,320 --> 00:12:46,839
Speaker 1: will be received too in the Senate. Um. But it

213
00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:52,959
Speaker 1: just to show the different world we're living in. After

214
00:12:53,040 --> 00:12:58,880
Speaker 1: two weeks of sustained effort, yeah, actual like um and

215
00:12:59,040 --> 00:13:04,400
Speaker 1: actual effort. Me, I don't have faith. Just a week ago,

216
00:13:04,559 --> 00:13:07,480
Speaker 1: there were a lot all these reports of people trying

217
00:13:07,520 --> 00:13:09,800
Speaker 1: to like get in contact with senators and Senate aids

218
00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:12,240
Speaker 1: and like people in the House just like asking like

219
00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:16,720
Speaker 1: what will what will happen in response to this protest.

220
00:13:16,760 --> 00:13:19,480
Speaker 1: And this was like early on and every single person

221
00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:23,600
Speaker 1: scoffed at the idea, like there's nothing what like, no,

222
00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:25,600
Speaker 1: we're not gonna there's nothing, there's no action. It's gonna

223
00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:28,920
Speaker 1: be taken like this, and so whatever your opinion is

224
00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:31,920
Speaker 1: on what what the actual legislation is or whether or

225
00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:34,160
Speaker 1: not will pass. A few days later they tried to

226
00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:38,560
Speaker 1: do something mm hmm. Yeah. And like other stuff, like

227
00:13:38,600 --> 00:13:40,400
Speaker 1: one of the great things that started to happen is

228
00:13:40,440 --> 00:13:43,640
Speaker 1: like there's these like Richmond is one city, in Charlottesville's

229
00:13:43,640 --> 00:13:46,760
Speaker 1: another where they have these like statues of Confederates. They're

230
00:13:46,760 --> 00:13:48,959
Speaker 1: starting to get removed now just because and and this

231
00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:52,240
Speaker 1: didn't just start with George Floyd's death. I know activists

232
00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:54,199
Speaker 1: there who have been fighting to get these things removed

233
00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:57,839
Speaker 1: for years now. Yeah, it's been a discussion like for

234
00:13:57,880 --> 00:14:00,920
Speaker 1: so long. It feels like every conversation about it is

235
00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:03,800
Speaker 1: just on repeat. Yeah, it's just sort of and but

236
00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:06,160
Speaker 1: this was kind of like a rising tides, lift all

237
00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:08,720
Speaker 1: boats thing and so and that's not a meaningless chance,

238
00:14:08,800 --> 00:14:11,600
Speaker 1: that's not a cosmetic just a cosmetic change, like it

239
00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:14,760
Speaker 1: is cosmetic, and that it's a physical thing that's being removed.

240
00:14:15,280 --> 00:14:18,800
Speaker 1: But the the the lack of a presence of statues

241
00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:26,400
Speaker 1: commemorating fucking traitorous slaveholders in American cities is meaningful. Um.

242
00:14:26,440 --> 00:14:29,160
Speaker 1: It's meaningful to the black people who live in those cities,

243
00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:31,440
Speaker 1: and it's also meaningful and kind of the message that

244
00:14:31,520 --> 00:14:35,680
Speaker 1: it sends Americans and particularly young Americans who grow up

245
00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:40,440
Speaker 1: around that. Um, it's meaningful that the Marine Corps is

246
00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:42,320
Speaker 1: banning the use of the Confederate flag, and that the

247
00:14:42,400 --> 00:14:46,040
Speaker 1: Armies considering renaming bases named after Confederate leaders, which they

248
00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:49,080
Speaker 1: never should have had bases named after Confederate leaders. All

249
00:14:49,080 --> 00:14:51,960
Speaker 1: of this is fucking part of it. You know, it's meaningful.

250
00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:55,560
Speaker 1: The fucking crowd in Bristol through the statue of that

251
00:14:55,720 --> 00:14:59,680
Speaker 1: Coulson guy, that slaveholder who like built the city, Yeah,

252
00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:02,200
Speaker 1: just through it in the fucking river. Like they didn't

253
00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:04,760
Speaker 1: didn't wait to have the government say they could remove it.

254
00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:07,760
Speaker 1: Was just like, yeah, we're just gonna take it down

255
00:15:07,760 --> 00:15:11,120
Speaker 1: and throw in the river. And like a lot of

256
00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:15,080
Speaker 1: these statues are have were also like erected uh like

257
00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:18,800
Speaker 1: yes after like in response to the civil rights movement

258
00:15:19,480 --> 00:15:23,720
Speaker 1: and a huge fun you two people so we're still

259
00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:26,160
Speaker 1: in charge black people. Thing. Yeah, like look at that,

260
00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:30,000
Speaker 1: look at our statues. Also start speaking of stumping the

261
00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:33,240
Speaker 1: statue in the river. Some guys are trying to fish

262
00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:35,800
Speaker 1: it out of trying to fish it out with like

263
00:15:36,040 --> 00:15:38,080
Speaker 1: one of those sticks you used to clean out a

264
00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:43,360
Speaker 1: swimming pool. Yeah, it's amazing, it's it's beautiful. Yeah, it's

265
00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:45,400
Speaker 1: it's a lot of the best, a lot of visual

266
00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:49,400
Speaker 1: metaphors out there lately. Yeah, And it's like all of this,

267
00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:52,920
Speaker 1: all of the things that are changing around the country,

268
00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:54,880
Speaker 1: all of like the like it's the kind of thing

269
00:15:54,880 --> 00:15:57,280
Speaker 1: we're not going to get I can tell you already,

270
00:15:57,360 --> 00:16:00,720
Speaker 1: Like is not going to suddenly like sweep Trump physically

271
00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:03,560
Speaker 1: out of the White House and abolish all the police departments.

272
00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:06,720
Speaker 1: I would be all on board for that if it were.

273
00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:10,000
Speaker 1: But that's still not the America we live in. But

274
00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:12,240
Speaker 1: we do now live in America where a hell of

275
00:16:12,280 --> 00:16:14,640
Speaker 1: a lot for one thing, I think probably a million

276
00:16:14,720 --> 00:16:18,680
Speaker 1: or two more people, UM have either been directly assaulted

277
00:16:18,680 --> 00:16:21,000
Speaker 1: by the police or who have had a loved one

278
00:16:21,040 --> 00:16:24,360
Speaker 1: directly assaulted by the police. And that's gonna change how

279
00:16:24,400 --> 00:16:28,800
Speaker 1: some people vote. UM. And we like the the the

280
00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:30,840
Speaker 1: the the window. We'll talk about this in our interview

281
00:16:30,880 --> 00:16:32,360
Speaker 1: a little later, but kind of like the window of

282
00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:35,160
Speaker 1: debate on what is appropriate for for us to have

283
00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:38,920
Speaker 1: in terms of police has shifted massively over the last

284
00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:41,720
Speaker 1: nine days, in a way that I would have thought

285
00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:46,760
Speaker 1: impossible ten days, even days not I I tweeted this.

286
00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:49,080
Speaker 1: I mean, people, we've talked about this. Everybody's been talking

287
00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:53,520
Speaker 1: about it, you know, a few weeks ago. Yeah, I

288
00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:58,520
Speaker 1: wanted police reform. I thought most cops are pretty bad.

289
00:16:58,640 --> 00:17:01,400
Speaker 1: But you'd be hard pressed to get me saying all

290
00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:06,199
Speaker 1: cops are bastards. Not true anymore, Absolutely not true, and

291
00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:11,040
Speaker 1: that and and and even more so, I don't know

292
00:17:11,080 --> 00:17:14,480
Speaker 1: anybody else who wouldn't be willing to say that. I

293
00:17:14,520 --> 00:17:16,800
Speaker 1: actually do. I know people. But for the most part,

294
00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:21,960
Speaker 1: I'm really heartened by the shift I've seen just across

295
00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:26,040
Speaker 1: the board from people in my circles, you know, Centrists

296
00:17:26,840 --> 00:17:32,520
Speaker 1: that are staunchly a cab Yeah, I also just guys.

297
00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:34,879
Speaker 1: I've mentioned America a lot, but it's it's not just

298
00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:37,840
Speaker 1: America doing this. I mean, even that's what the Bristol

299
00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:43,400
Speaker 1: thing was. Yeah, and the French rioting on our I'm

300
00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:46,919
Speaker 1: taking down those King Leopold statues, which is bad. Well,

301
00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:49,240
Speaker 1: they're they're covering it. Have they taken them down yet?

302
00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:53,000
Speaker 1: I know that they've been protesting them based there's something

303
00:17:53,280 --> 00:17:59,160
Speaker 1: been like fully like chopped. Yeah, that's been nice to see. Yeah,

304
00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:05,200
Speaker 1: King Leopold, Yeah, all the Churchill stuff. Yeah, people fucking

305
00:18:05,240 --> 00:18:09,120
Speaker 1: with Churchill statues, um, and uh you know, and then

306
00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:13,360
Speaker 1: people responding like, but he's not Hitler. Yeah, yes, you're right.

307
00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:16,879
Speaker 1: He was half of a Hitler and at the time

308
00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:19,360
Speaker 1: that was better than a Hitler. But it doesn't mean

309
00:18:19,359 --> 00:18:26,440
Speaker 1: we should have statues to him. Still. Yeah, Yeah, there's

310
00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:29,040
Speaker 1: a lot of that shift. I see everywhere every day,

311
00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:33,280
Speaker 1: more and more like parents of like conservative parents, even

312
00:18:33,320 --> 00:18:39,080
Speaker 1: of friends of mine who were like I didn't realize this, um,

313
00:18:39,119 --> 00:18:42,040
Speaker 1: and people like responding online even just being like, yeah,

314
00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:44,679
Speaker 1: I used to really support police unions and police like

315
00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:47,359
Speaker 1: all these like booster stuff and I will never ever

316
00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:51,160
Speaker 1: vote for increasing funding for police again in my life.

317
00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:54,760
Speaker 1: Oh I've got a good one. Uh. You guys have

318
00:18:54,920 --> 00:18:57,919
Speaker 1: heard me mentioned before. Probably I have a friend that

319
00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:01,880
Speaker 1: I my best friend from high school. Uh, we grew

320
00:19:01,920 --> 00:19:06,359
Speaker 1: apart very conservative now voted for Trump, her husband as

321
00:19:06,400 --> 00:19:09,600
Speaker 1: a Trump supporter, and that we don't communicate very often anymore.

322
00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:14,119
Speaker 1: But her husband started liking all of my Black Lives

323
00:19:14,119 --> 00:19:19,840
Speaker 1: Matters posts and the defund the police posts. What you

324
00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:26,960
Speaker 1: tell me that, Oh wow, just started happening. That's wild, folks,

325
00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:30,679
Speaker 1: that's that's a huge cultural shift. It's time for an

326
00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:44,200
Speaker 1: ad I think is what we're getting to yes together everything.

327
00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:49,320
Speaker 1: So don't don't know, that was a nice break. That

328
00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:53,639
Speaker 1: was a nice break. Minneapolis is going to get a

329
00:19:53,720 --> 00:20:00,640
Speaker 1: nice break from having Minneapolis police. Yeah, we those Seattle

330
00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:04,880
Speaker 1: isn't going to have a nice break from getting tear gasts. No,

331
00:20:04,920 --> 00:20:07,800
Speaker 1: they're not. Despite the promise of a thirty day break

332
00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:10,560
Speaker 1: from getting tear gas we broke that promise on day two.

333
00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:14,919
Speaker 1: So yeah, it's it's funny the police. Like the phrase

334
00:20:14,920 --> 00:20:17,720
Speaker 1: that keeps cropping up that I love because it's brilliant

335
00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:22,800
Speaker 1: is tear gas lighting? Um, yeah, yeah, it's we we've

336
00:20:22,840 --> 00:20:25,080
Speaker 1: been having that in Portland to where like two nights ago,

337
00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:29,560
Speaker 1: well three nights ago, the mayor came out. Mayor Ted Wheeler,

338
00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:32,679
Speaker 1: who is also the police police commissioner and thus directly

339
00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:35,880
Speaker 1: responsible for all the violence everyone's been receiving, came out

340
00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:38,520
Speaker 1: to like talk to the community and like speak with

341
00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:41,560
Speaker 1: a number of local black and Hispanic activists and like

342
00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:44,840
Speaker 1: the middle of this huge crowd of thousands, and everybody

343
00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:47,919
Speaker 1: just told him what a piece of ship. He was like,

344
00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:50,439
Speaker 1: there was no respect, there was no attempt at like

345
00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:53,240
Speaker 1: it was just like no, fuck you, we want you out.

346
00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:56,840
Speaker 1: Stop using tear gas. And he he committed to not

347
00:20:57,000 --> 00:21:00,399
Speaker 1: use the sound canon, which was breaking people's ears. And

348
00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:02,399
Speaker 1: then he was like and I'll tell them tomorrow not

349
00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:04,560
Speaker 1: to use tear gas. Of course that night they gassed

350
00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:07,560
Speaker 1: the ship out of us. Well I'm glad we can

351
00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:15,280
Speaker 1: laugh about it. Yeah, it was nice you have had

352
00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:18,560
Speaker 1: I will say, watching Ted Wheeler get shouted at by

353
00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:22,119
Speaker 1: the entire town um like literally thousands of people like this,

354
00:21:22,119 --> 00:21:24,760
Speaker 1: this huge crowd of thousands arrived while he was already

355
00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:27,200
Speaker 1: surrounded by like a thousand people, and he got so

356
00:21:27,240 --> 00:21:29,480
Speaker 1: scared and like tried to leave immediately, and like the

357
00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:31,280
Speaker 1: activity was talking to hs like are you scared of

358
00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:33,800
Speaker 1: the people of your town? Ted, Like we've all been

359
00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:36,320
Speaker 1: We've all been getting shot at by your police for

360
00:21:36,359 --> 00:21:39,200
Speaker 1: the last week. Like why are you scared? Like what

361
00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:46,840
Speaker 1: I like the next day, Um Mayor Fray of Minneapolis,

362
00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:49,200
Speaker 1: who like made a big show of crying at George

363
00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:53,000
Speaker 1: Floyd's memorial. Um went out directly into a crowd to

364
00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:55,840
Speaker 1: speak to them and was asked if he supported defunding

365
00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:59,480
Speaker 1: the Minneapolis Police and said no, and everybody said funk off.

366
00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:04,240
Speaker 1: Like this, like the New York Times described it as

367
00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:08,480
Speaker 1: like a moment of public shaming. Um. Almost that was

368
00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:12,399
Speaker 1: almost like incomprehensible. It's kind of you only see a movie,

369
00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:16,600
Speaker 1: TV show. It's impossibly written. You'd be like, well, like

370
00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:22,000
Speaker 1: so down, guys, like like that's it's. Um, Yeah, it's bizarre.

371
00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:25,440
Speaker 1: It's so wild to see. I'm gonna admit watching Wheeler

372
00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:27,640
Speaker 1: get shouted down like that, I was a little bit hard,

373
00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:31,440
Speaker 1: Like that was I did it. It's there are a

374
00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:37,840
Speaker 1: lot of there are a lot of like commable moments

375
00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:42,960
Speaker 1: that shaming. The zoom the zoom calls are amazing. Those

376
00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:46,440
Speaker 1: conversations I keep I I keep thinking about, like imagine

377
00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:48,720
Speaker 1: if Pete were mayor of South Bend right now is

378
00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:53,639
Speaker 1: oh my god, tear gas m oh on the lines

379
00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:57,760
Speaker 1: of the tear gas lighting. It's really interesting because this

380
00:22:57,840 --> 00:22:59,879
Speaker 1: is all like we keep were bringing up like for

381
00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:03,360
Speaker 1: guson time period UM during all of this because it's

382
00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:07,840
Speaker 1: all like intensified echoes of what we saw during that

383
00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:10,320
Speaker 1: um and this is the same kind of thing about

384
00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:14,240
Speaker 1: to your guests. But I also, uh, you keep seeing

385
00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:21,920
Speaker 1: police uh accounts sharing these tables of items, and it's

386
00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:25,240
Speaker 1: heartening to me to see people look at those tables

387
00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:28,080
Speaker 1: of items that like protesters through you know, and just

388
00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:36,840
Speaker 1: everybody going fuck you bu um. Robert, you mentioned already

389
00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:40,560
Speaker 1: that we are speaking u with somebody from Minneapolis later

390
00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:44,680
Speaker 1: in the episode, ure, should we give our listeners a

391
00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:47,080
Speaker 1: little bit of rundown of what's happening there, just in

392
00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:51,320
Speaker 1: case they don't know? Yeah, I mean, so, the people

393
00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:54,639
Speaker 1: of Minneapolis revolted against their police department after the murder

394
00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:57,600
Speaker 1: of George Floyd. Uh. They laid siege to the Third

395
00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:01,520
Speaker 1: Precinct and eventually through she or weight of numbers uh

396
00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:05,040
Speaker 1: and running the police out of munitions forced the police

397
00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:08,400
Speaker 1: to withdraw, and then they fucking burned the precinct down.

398
00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:12,280
Speaker 1: The National Guard and other police have been called in

399
00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:15,359
Speaker 1: and so like some areas of Minneapolis have like you know,

400
00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:19,440
Speaker 1: are being essentially policed by everything but the Minneapolis p D.

401
00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:22,880
Speaker 1: But chunks of the city are kind of letting them

402
00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:26,640
Speaker 1: be for the most part, because like they made their

403
00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:29,840
Speaker 1: feelings on being policed pretty clear. Um. And there's kind

404
00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:32,080
Speaker 1: of a like it was announced I think yesterday the

405
00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:35,119
Speaker 1: news dropped, um, so like Sunday that a veto proof

406
00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:38,000
Speaker 1: majority of the Minneapolis City Council was going to be

407
00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:40,880
Speaker 1: disbanding the Minneapolis Police and kind of replacing it with

408
00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:45,159
Speaker 1: something new public Safety Council or something like that. Um.

409
00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:47,040
Speaker 1: And we I don't think we know exactly how they're

410
00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:51,520
Speaker 1: like they're still kind of figure out what that looks like. Um,

411
00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:54,359
Speaker 1: but it's kind of acknowledgement from the elected leaders that like,

412
00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:58,360
Speaker 1: we can't reform the Minneapolis Police, we have to get

413
00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:01,359
Speaker 1: rid of them. And like obviously there's there's jobs that

414
00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:04,640
Speaker 1: they do that are necessary, Like there's people who investigate murder,

415
00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:09,639
Speaker 1: murders should be investigated, but we can't fix this. It

416
00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:15,480
Speaker 1: has to be replaced. Yeah. Incredibly exciting. Yeah, it's a

417
00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:19,000
Speaker 1: good move. And you know, you're seeing an increasing a

418
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:20,800
Speaker 1: lot of you know, a sizeable chunk of the activists

419
00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:24,680
Speaker 1: in Portland demanding the Portland Police be disbanded. I'm not sure,

420
00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:27,000
Speaker 1: I haven't seen. You know, there's I think a larger

421
00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:29,679
Speaker 1: movement for kind of completely disbanding the police in there

422
00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:33,240
Speaker 1: has been, but that's still a pretty fringe political statement nationwide.

423
00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:36,200
Speaker 1: But I think a sizeable chunk of Americans agree with

424
00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:39,320
Speaker 1: UM reforming or reducing their funding. So I do think

425
00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:42,680
Speaker 1: you're gonna see, like again, kind of different steps taken

426
00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:44,760
Speaker 1: in different areas, but Minneapolis is going to be kind

427
00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:47,159
Speaker 1: of on the forefront of experimenting, like what if we

428
00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:50,679
Speaker 1: just tried something totally different, so that it's going to

429
00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:53,639
Speaker 1: be of the stories to continue to be watching in

430
00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:56,920
Speaker 1: the next year or two really and more. Minneapolis is

431
00:25:57,280 --> 00:25:59,880
Speaker 1: I think a really important one to keep an eye on. Yeah,

432
00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:03,440
Speaker 1: because also even just in talking about it, uh, that

433
00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:09,639
Speaker 1: changes public opinion and yeah, and it's just like simple

434
00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:12,359
Speaker 1: things like Okay, in this situation, it wouldn't be a

435
00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:15,240
Speaker 1: police officer, it would be this UM. So even before

436
00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:18,080
Speaker 1: you see the effect of it, I think people will

437
00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:21,920
Speaker 1: open up to it more because when you you're about

438
00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:26,080
Speaker 1: it, it it makes sense. Yeah, and you know, I'm a

439
00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:29,000
Speaker 1: police abolitionist. I think we need to figure out something else.

440
00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:32,360
Speaker 1: But I'm also like, Okay, well if this police department

441
00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:35,760
Speaker 1: cuts their staff by thirty this by and they remove

442
00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:39,080
Speaker 1: these weapons, and like that's better than nothing. And I'm

443
00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:42,040
Speaker 1: not going to stop pushing for police abolition, but if

444
00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:45,560
Speaker 1: I can have fewer police and have them be less

445
00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:48,919
Speaker 1: heavily armed while I'm pushing to get rid of the

446
00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:53,600
Speaker 1: rest of them, that that strikes me as an acceptable tactic,

447
00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:56,960
Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, And I have seen people push back

448
00:26:56,960 --> 00:27:01,600
Speaker 1: on because of because of the they easily conflate abolition

449
00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:06,520
Speaker 1: with defunding and these other plans um out of like

450
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:09,040
Speaker 1: this weird fear that like, well, they do this and

451
00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:12,240
Speaker 1: then they'll do the abolishment and stuff like even the

452
00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:17,560
Speaker 1: that mayor who got shamed free he was asked, will

453
00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:21,479
Speaker 1: you commit to defunding the police, but his answer was

454
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:27,760
Speaker 1: I do not believe in fully abolishing the police, which

455
00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:30,639
Speaker 1: isn't an answer to the question that she asked. Um,

456
00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:33,199
Speaker 1: so there's a yeah, I don't know. It's it's just

457
00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:38,280
Speaker 1: interesting how people view both of those things and where

458
00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:42,880
Speaker 1: one will lead. But use like using the abolition possibility

459
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:45,440
Speaker 1: as an excuse to say that we shouldn't do things

460
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:51,119
Speaker 1: that everyone agrees are good. Yeah, I don't know, y'all. Um.

461
00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:53,000
Speaker 1: I wanted to talk a little bit about, you know,

462
00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:55,360
Speaker 1: one of the things that's kind of kind of worrying

463
00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:57,919
Speaker 1: to me is there is this element of kind of

464
00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:00,320
Speaker 1: co opting some of these protests. You saw there these

465
00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:02,199
Speaker 1: photos going around like one of the guys leading some

466
00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:05,720
Speaker 1: who's not leading, but he just kind of like stumbled

467
00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:08,720
Speaker 1: into the front of one of these marches in New

468
00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:12,320
Speaker 1: York City dressed like a black panther with a megaphone

469
00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:14,720
Speaker 1: but also like super chummy, putting his arm around the

470
00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:19,320
Speaker 1: police inspector who's like yeah yeah, and he like turns

471
00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:21,439
Speaker 1: out he's like an Instagram model and stuff who's not

472
00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:23,720
Speaker 1: even from New York, hasn't lived there long. Is just

473
00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:25,160
Speaker 1: kind of trying to co opt. And we have We've

474
00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:29,480
Speaker 1: had something like that in Portland too. This is puplicities. Yeah,

475
00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:32,480
Speaker 1: we we had like this this chunk of And again

476
00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:33,679
Speaker 1: one of the problems is that when you when you're

477
00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:37,120
Speaker 1: looking at these massive marches, they're not organized usually by

478
00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:39,560
Speaker 1: like a strict hierarchy. Like there's just sort of an

479
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:41,760
Speaker 1: activist community and it's like, oh, we have people who

480
00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:43,840
Speaker 1: know how to be the folks on bikes who make

481
00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:45,840
Speaker 1: sure that the group stays together and who's got ahead.

482
00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:47,360
Speaker 1: We have folks who know how to be medics. We

483
00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:48,440
Speaker 1: have folks who know how to like be in the

484
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:50,200
Speaker 1: middle of the group to stop it from panicking if

485
00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:52,520
Speaker 1: they get gassed, and to like help keep people together.

486
00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:54,520
Speaker 1: We have folks who know how to like lead chance

487
00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:56,200
Speaker 1: and folks who know how to like help, you know,

488
00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:58,720
Speaker 1: keep thousands of people together as they marched through a city,

489
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:01,640
Speaker 1: and everybody just kind of does their job. But because

490
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:03,560
Speaker 1: the people who really know what they're doing are kind

491
00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:06,160
Speaker 1: of doing their job and watching that for the police. Um,

492
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:09,040
Speaker 1: you you can have sometimes people just sort of like

493
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:12,040
Speaker 1: start chanting in the front and get on a bullhorn

494
00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:15,880
Speaker 1: and kind of try to make themselves into figureheads of

495
00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:18,600
Speaker 1: the movement. And we had this happen in Portland recently too,

496
00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:21,640
Speaker 1: where like these folks that nobody really knew got in

497
00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:24,360
Speaker 1: front and started kind of co opting the march and

498
00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:27,360
Speaker 1: doing weird stuff like refusing to try to push past

499
00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:29,640
Speaker 1: a police barrier when they had the numbers to do

500
00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:33,240
Speaker 1: it without asking anyone what they wanted to do. UM.

501
00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:35,680
Speaker 1: And it turns out later that like one of those there,

502
00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:38,200
Speaker 1: the initial folks who was like trying to become the

503
00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:41,360
Speaker 1: face of this movement in Portland UM was a convicted

504
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:43,440
Speaker 1: pedophile who had raped a five year old UM and

505
00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:45,760
Speaker 1: who had just gotten out of jail um and was

506
00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:47,680
Speaker 1: a model and trying to and he was he was

507
00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:49,160
Speaker 1: a young black guy. He was a model and was

508
00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:53,640
Speaker 1: trying to like reinvent himself this way. And it's like, um,

509
00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:56,680
Speaker 1: a lot of shady stuff happening people with like that

510
00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:59,040
Speaker 1: nobody knows who are kind of like one of the

511
00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:02,800
Speaker 1: things that's been happening is um, the the kind of

512
00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:05,520
Speaker 1: activist communities have been trying to like make sure that

513
00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:09,560
Speaker 1: they're putting um, people of color up front and center,

514
00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:11,240
Speaker 1: which is good and important and a lot of really

515
00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:15,640
Speaker 1: good activists around the country right now, um are are

516
00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:17,720
Speaker 1: are you know, people of color who are kind of

517
00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:20,600
Speaker 1: dominating and leading this movement in a way that's really important.

518
00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:24,040
Speaker 1: But it's also the fact that like they're they're trying

519
00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:26,440
Speaker 1: to put new voices up front means that like people

520
00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:29,560
Speaker 1: that folks haven't known as well are winding up in

521
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:31,680
Speaker 1: the front of some of these movements, and some of

522
00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:35,800
Speaker 1: these people are like take like shady as ship right um.

523
00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:37,920
Speaker 1: And it's it's this problem when you're putting a bunch

524
00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:39,640
Speaker 1: of new voices up front, is that some of them

525
00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:41,480
Speaker 1: are going to be some of them are gonna be

526
00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:45,440
Speaker 1: working with the fucking cops, right, Like, that's that's the situation, UM,

527
00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:47,840
Speaker 1: because it's profitable sometimes to work with the cops, and

528
00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:49,360
Speaker 1: because they I think a lot of them think that

529
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:51,040
Speaker 1: they can make a bunch of money out of this

530
00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:55,480
Speaker 1: once kind of the the um the revolutionary fervor dies down,

531
00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:59,080
Speaker 1: And I think that's a worry that UM. Everybody of

532
00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:04,080
Speaker 1: of all groups who cares about really making meaningful chains

533
00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:05,800
Speaker 1: needs to be concerned about it. Like if you see

534
00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:08,280
Speaker 1: someone at the front um of one of these groups,

535
00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:11,719
Speaker 1: UM for one thing, Like, I don't trust the phrase

536
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:15,400
Speaker 1: peaceful protests because peaceful protests never accomplished anything. I think

537
00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:18,680
Speaker 1: non violent protest is important. I don't think peaceful protest

538
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:23,920
Speaker 1: has any fucking value. I think a non peaceful but

539
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:27,520
Speaker 1: non violent protest doesn't have to be looting and burning downtown.

540
00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:30,120
Speaker 1: Although I'm not going to say that's never, um uh

541
00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:33,240
Speaker 1: an effective strategy for a movement to pursue, but it

542
00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:35,520
Speaker 1: does need to be, you know. I do think a

543
00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:39,320
Speaker 1: valid option is draining the resources in the time and

544
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:42,120
Speaker 1: the manpower of the police and exhausting them and making

545
00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:45,200
Speaker 1: them hate their jobs and making them feel unwelcome and

546
00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:47,840
Speaker 1: kind of mentally abusing the cops a little bit to

547
00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:50,520
Speaker 1: get him to quit. Um. I I think that that's

548
00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:52,960
Speaker 1: a valuable I think making them realize I think a

549
00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:55,120
Speaker 1: big part of why a number of folks become police

550
00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:58,440
Speaker 1: is because it's been traditionally a respected job. So I

551
00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:01,040
Speaker 1: do think that if we're talking about a adversity of tactics,

552
00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:04,040
Speaker 1: one tactic in reducing the number of police is making

553
00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:07,920
Speaker 1: them hate their job absolutely, in addition to cutting their

554
00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:09,840
Speaker 1: fundings so they make less money and that there are

555
00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:12,800
Speaker 1: fewer of them, you know, I mean, yeah, it's changing

556
00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:14,920
Speaker 1: the way we perceive them. If this job is not

557
00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:19,360
Speaker 1: perceived as high status, then it will not attract the

558
00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:29,080
Speaker 1: same bullies, right situation. Yeah, So I don't know. Um,

559
00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:30,960
Speaker 1: I think we've kind of gotten through all of the

560
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:34,800
Speaker 1: stuff I wanted to talk about at this stage before

561
00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:37,840
Speaker 1: we lead into our our interview with a with One

562
00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:43,320
Speaker 1: Voice for Minneapolis. Um And yeah, yeah, well that's perfectly

563
00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:46,320
Speaker 1: timed with our next ad break. So well done, Hubert.

564
00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:51,000
Speaker 1: In all of this chaos, the one thing that's never

565
00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:54,200
Speaker 1: changed for me is my my love and appreciation of

566
00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:59,720
Speaker 1: products and services. Raytheon, proud sponsor of Black Lives matter protests,

567
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:03,840
Speaker 1: Raytheon will not has never tear gas in anybody. Sure

568
00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:06,280
Speaker 1: they've helped launch a few thousand missiles at a few

569
00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:10,640
Speaker 1: thousand weddings, of course, now obviously, but what if they've

570
00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:16,040
Speaker 1: done here with tear gas? Exactly, no tear ga. So

571
00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:19,120
Speaker 1: support Raytheon in its quest to make sure that every

572
00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:25,400
Speaker 1: newly wed couple gets hell fire missile uh directly into

573
00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:28,280
Speaker 1: their family. That is the beautiful dream of Raytheon, and

574
00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:47,920
Speaker 1: that's the beautiful dream of this podcast Together Everything podcast. Well,

575
00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:51,640
Speaker 1: we probably will record up to the show separate. No, nope, nope,

576
00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:54,800
Speaker 1: this is all staying in this. We just introduced the show.

577
00:33:55,040 --> 00:34:01,479
Speaker 1: This is this is worst year ever the podcast where yeah,

578
00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:04,800
Speaker 1: we don't run a very tight ship, but not that

579
00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:09,080
Speaker 1: it is America. So no, but you know, Katie fun fact,

580
00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:11,719
Speaker 1: this is actually not a ship. It is a podcast.

581
00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:16,359
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, you you have been trimming sails for

582
00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:21,080
Speaker 1: a year for no reason. I've been throwing up everywhere.

583
00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:24,520
Speaker 1: I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry. I wonder the drama

584
00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:29,560
Speaker 1: main doesn't work. Yeah okay, well that fun introduction, uh

585
00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:32,319
Speaker 1: was was our way of of getting everybody in with

586
00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:37,320
Speaker 1: a laugh, because I'm sure like have been tear guests

587
00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:42,759
Speaker 1: since the last episode. Um yeah, uh, we're we're we're

588
00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:46,920
Speaker 1: talking about the the uprising nationwide against the police. And

589
00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:54,200
Speaker 1: today we have a guest from the epicenter of this uprising, Minneapolis, Minnesota. Carl.

590
00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:57,480
Speaker 1: How are you doing today? Doing great? It's uh, you know,

591
00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:02,040
Speaker 1: just another day in a new war old. Yeah. What

592
00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:05,560
Speaker 1: do you mean by a new world? Well, you know,

593
00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:12,400
Speaker 1: since since we watched that murder um, things here just

594
00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:16,560
Speaker 1: so so quickly fell apart and have turned into something

595
00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:20,120
Speaker 1: completely new that it's you know, it's something I never

596
00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:22,040
Speaker 1: thought I would see in my life, let alone have,

597
00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:26,680
Speaker 1: uh in my face, the very real possibility that we're

598
00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:29,400
Speaker 1: going to get rid of our police force. You know,

599
00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:32,520
Speaker 1: like all over the city, the community has turned into

600
00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:35,759
Speaker 1: something that I never As much as this city is

601
00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:38,280
Speaker 1: different in a lot of ways in that community vibe,

602
00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:43,440
Speaker 1: it's never been like this. Um. You know, we we

603
00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:49,600
Speaker 1: essentially have taken over the a large city and demanded

604
00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:54,520
Speaker 1: that it changes fundamentally how we do what we do

605
00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:59,480
Speaker 1: and go about our daily lives. And we're not gonna

606
00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:04,000
Speaker 1: sit and and and take platitudes or hollow gestures anymore.

607
00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:07,520
Speaker 1: It's our world now, So we have this whole mentality

608
00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:10,959
Speaker 1: that anything's up for grabs, and we're seeing that day

609
00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:14,840
Speaker 1: by day and new things, new attitudes, new views on

610
00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:19,640
Speaker 1: what we want, and it's it's totally unique. I've never

611
00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:24,640
Speaker 1: in my life experienced anything that felt simultaneously like candlelight vigil,

612
00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:32,960
Speaker 1: a powerful moment of anger and sadness that's had decades

613
00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:35,759
Speaker 1: of building behind it, and this other sense of just

614
00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:40,399
Speaker 1: like hope, and that that sense of hope, I think

615
00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:45,360
Speaker 1: is something that, if nothing else, is one of the

616
00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:51,520
Speaker 1: more truly uplifting things I've ever seen. And it beats

617
00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:54,479
Speaker 1: out any of the corporate manufactured stuff we've ever seen

618
00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:59,040
Speaker 1: that's supposed to be quote unquote uplifting, and it's it's

619
00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:02,319
Speaker 1: just it's really in your face representation of what it

620
00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:05,960
Speaker 1: looks like. I think when communities have enough and is

621
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:08,520
Speaker 1: willing to say, you know what, I think it's time

622
00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:12,279
Speaker 1: for radical change, even if that scares the hell out

623
00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:17,160
Speaker 1: of everyone but us. Yeah, and you you know, Minneapolis

624
00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:19,040
Speaker 1: has seen a number of protests in the not too

625
00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:22,279
Speaker 1: distant future against the police, against as a result of

626
00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:26,760
Speaker 1: the police and absolutely yeah killing black people. Um, when

627
00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:29,040
Speaker 1: what what was that? What was the moment? If there

628
00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:32,000
Speaker 1: was a moment when you were like, Oh, this one's different.

629
00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:34,360
Speaker 1: This isn't just gonna be people hanging out around a

630
00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:39,000
Speaker 1: precinct with signs until they get tired. Yeah, So, you know,

631
00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:40,719
Speaker 1: it's funny. I was thinking about this, and I was

632
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:43,080
Speaker 1: looking back because I've been trying to really keep a

633
00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:45,840
Speaker 1: running journal and kind of a day by day calendar

634
00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:49,680
Speaker 1: of both the pandemic when that started and now the

635
00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:52,880
Speaker 1: uprisings that we were facing. And you know, I was

636
00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:56,520
Speaker 1: looking in the Tuesday. So Monday night that video kind

637
00:37:56,520 --> 00:37:59,680
Speaker 1: of went live and people here started really there was

638
00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:04,600
Speaker 1: talk UM by Tuesday though, I had gunn for a

639
00:38:04,680 --> 00:38:08,200
Speaker 1: hike at them at the River, which is right near

640
00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:12,279
Speaker 1: near the precinct. And you know, by the time I

641
00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:14,600
Speaker 1: got home at about five that night on TUESDA was

642
00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:19,399
Speaker 1: driving home, I drove down Hiawatha and was stopped by

643
00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:25,280
Speaker 1: probably five protesters UM and it was everybody. It wasn't

644
00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:29,640
Speaker 1: just um BLM activists. It was members of the South

645
00:38:29,719 --> 00:38:33,040
Speaker 1: Side community that lived there. It was members of UM

646
00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:36,120
Speaker 1: different groups that have come out form for different events,

647
00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:39,640
Speaker 1: whether it's like the city council, people from the powder

648
00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:42,839
Speaker 1: Horn area where you know in like the cut foods area.

649
00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:46,759
Speaker 1: Any you know, these different groups kind of started to coalesce,

650
00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:50,360
Speaker 1: and that was maybe three blocks from the precinct and

651
00:38:50,920 --> 00:38:54,080
Speaker 1: was kind of, you know, the beginning of this thing.

652
00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:57,759
Speaker 1: And by you know, by eight that night, about four

653
00:38:57,840 --> 00:39:01,600
Speaker 1: or five hours later, it was something already different. Um

654
00:39:01,640 --> 00:39:04,880
Speaker 1: the police were you could hear it, like I was

655
00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:07,320
Speaker 1: listening to police scanners. I have friends listening to police

656
00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:10,280
Speaker 1: scanners and you could hear it was different. The cops

657
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:16,200
Speaker 1: sounded overwhelmed. I think that's the best the best I

658
00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:17,920
Speaker 1: can put it. And you know, from there on end,

659
00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:20,480
Speaker 1: you know, it was only a matter of time until

660
00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:24,719
Speaker 1: the precinct fell. And you know, by the time the

661
00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:30,320
Speaker 1: cops scattered out of their gated in little parking lot um,

662
00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:34,239
Speaker 1: the whole area had already turned in too. I mean,

663
00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:37,000
Speaker 1: the closest thing I can say it looked like the Maidan.

664
00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:42,279
Speaker 1: Everything I've ever seen from from Ukraine, you know, this

665
00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:46,680
Speaker 1: felt like that. You know, by by the time the

666
00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:49,600
Speaker 1: news really started picking up, that wasn't Unicorn riot or

667
00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:53,600
Speaker 1: some of the more personal like um level blogs, it

668
00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:58,160
Speaker 1: was already so you know, people were the anger was

669
00:39:58,280 --> 00:40:03,200
Speaker 1: so out in the forefront. There was just no way

670
00:40:03,239 --> 00:40:05,080
Speaker 1: it was going to stop. And that was the moment

671
00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:09,200
Speaker 1: I really knew that we were somewhere totally new. You know,

672
00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:12,080
Speaker 1: like we've seen protests, like you said here, we've seen

673
00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:17,839
Speaker 1: really tense conflicts between the police and the community, but this,

674
00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:21,440
Speaker 1: by that point was so far beyond anything we had

675
00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:26,000
Speaker 1: ever experienced that, you know, the minute that first rampart

676
00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:28,360
Speaker 1: got built and they started calling it the Battle of

677
00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:32,640
Speaker 1: Lake Um Lake in Minnie hahaha, or the Battle of

678
00:40:32,719 --> 00:40:35,960
Speaker 1: the of the Target, you know, jokingly, it was already

679
00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:40,240
Speaker 1: a thing. And that's what I and that's what I knew. Yeah,

680
00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:47,080
Speaker 1: and you're now living essentially in um not entirely post police,

681
00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:51,120
Speaker 1: but certainly post Minneapolis police. And you're definitely definitely post

682
00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:54,319
Speaker 1: Minneapolis police. You know, like I said, today's the first

683
00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:56,600
Speaker 1: day I've seen a cop and it wasn't a Minneapolis cop.

684
00:40:57,200 --> 00:41:01,160
Speaker 1: And and that's two weeks now, almost. We're we're really

685
00:41:01,239 --> 00:41:05,759
Speaker 1: we're we're two weeks and you know that, Um, it's

686
00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:10,040
Speaker 1: so weird because it's just it's normal. There's no outside okay,

687
00:41:10,080 --> 00:41:12,480
Speaker 1: and I should say normal in the context of the

688
00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:16,120
Speaker 1: right wing invasion that's going on simultaneously on the ground,

689
00:41:16,600 --> 00:41:20,200
Speaker 1: which isn't being talked about really, but there's that element

690
00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:25,799
Speaker 1: that's kind of it really confuses this other situation we're

691
00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:30,480
Speaker 1: dealing with. Well, can you elaborate a little bit on that. Yeah. Yeah, So,

692
00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:36,600
Speaker 1: like in the midst of the initial uprising, when the

693
00:41:36,680 --> 00:41:40,839
Speaker 1: precinct was burning, when the when people were kind of

694
00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:45,040
Speaker 1: commandeering goods from all over to help either protesters or

695
00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:49,359
Speaker 1: to build barricade walls. UM, there was also this other

696
00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:51,560
Speaker 1: side that was starting to be kind of noticed both

697
00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:54,400
Speaker 1: on social media and the police were hinting at it

698
00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:57,719
Speaker 1: kind of and and you know, it's been hard with

699
00:41:57,760 --> 00:42:00,720
Speaker 1: them because they don't say very much, but we also

700
00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:04,000
Speaker 1: know what we've seen, which is that a huge group

701
00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:10,040
Speaker 1: of kind of unidentified UM. I mean they're saying KKK.

702
00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:13,319
Speaker 1: The reality is it seems more like an insurgency force

703
00:42:13,400 --> 00:42:16,919
Speaker 1: built of a couple of different groups. UM. And they're

704
00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:19,920
Speaker 1: on the ground, and it's it's a very strange thing

705
00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:23,920
Speaker 1: that's happened here, you know. Um, day one, after the

706
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:30,040
Speaker 1: actual outbreak of looting and rioting and burning here, there

707
00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:34,320
Speaker 1: was an influx people notice kind of happening of cars

708
00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:38,760
Speaker 1: that we notice without license plates. UM. And it sounds

709
00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:41,840
Speaker 1: really innocuous, but it's strange. You notice that in a

710
00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:45,880
Speaker 1: city like Minneapolis, for some reason, it just started happening.

711
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:50,040
Speaker 1: And so you know by the time Friday night that

712
00:42:50,239 --> 00:42:55,560
Speaker 1: the National Guard was being kind of called out. Um.

713
00:42:55,600 --> 00:42:59,960
Speaker 1: You know, they we're reporting kind of openly that there

714
00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:03,640
Speaker 1: were groups of people causing problems. The president everyone else

715
00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:06,640
Speaker 1: has lied through their fucking teeth and said it was Antifa.

716
00:43:06,719 --> 00:43:09,240
Speaker 1: But the reality is we had boogie boys on the ground,

717
00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:12,719
Speaker 1: So we had the Boogaloo boys were here for sure. Yes,

718
00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:16,080
Speaker 1: we have pictures of them. I watch about it. I

719
00:43:16,200 --> 00:43:19,600
Speaker 1: watched them in person. Um. We also have, though, a

720
00:43:19,600 --> 00:43:22,399
Speaker 1: couple other groups that I am still trying to figure

721
00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:24,359
Speaker 1: out who they are, and I have photos of some

722
00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:27,799
Speaker 1: of them, but they were all foreign nationals. The two

723
00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:30,760
Speaker 1: that we confronted directly said they were Dutch and had

724
00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:35,040
Speaker 1: and had out of date Dutch press passes. Um. A

725
00:43:35,080 --> 00:43:37,000
Speaker 1: lot of the guys that have been caught here have

726
00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:40,279
Speaker 1: been caught with either some sort of media badge or

727
00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:44,399
Speaker 1: something that would approximate one. Um. There's just a lot

728
00:43:44,440 --> 00:43:47,120
Speaker 1: of a lot of people don't know about media badges.

729
00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:51,680
Speaker 1: But most journalists you just print them like you just

730
00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:54,440
Speaker 1: you just like there's nothing like there's not like a

731
00:43:54,480 --> 00:43:57,760
Speaker 1: centralized authority that issues your pretty badge. Is some cities

732
00:43:58,160 --> 00:44:01,120
Speaker 1: outside of maybe New York's City or l I where

733
00:44:01,160 --> 00:44:05,120
Speaker 1: they have press offices. Yeah, correct, And that's the thing.

734
00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:09,880
Speaker 1: And so you know, when when you confront someone who

735
00:44:10,239 --> 00:44:13,239
Speaker 1: you see driving a car with no license plates and

736
00:44:13,320 --> 00:44:17,560
Speaker 1: full of people, and they stop the car in the

737
00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:19,879
Speaker 1: middle of the street, get out and confront you as

738
00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:22,719
Speaker 1: to why you're taking photos, you know, stuff's going on.

739
00:44:22,960 --> 00:44:27,160
Speaker 1: And you know, I've spent a lot of my uh

740
00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:31,759
Speaker 1: twenties and early thirties studying and reading up on just

741
00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:35,720
Speaker 1: anything that kind of approximates what that looks like, whether

742
00:44:35,760 --> 00:44:42,000
Speaker 1: it's fascist, kind of um revolutionary stuff, to how the

743
00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:44,879
Speaker 1: spread of propaganda works and how that looks. And these

744
00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:49,080
Speaker 1: guys were the spookiest group of people I've ever encountered

745
00:44:49,120 --> 00:44:53,200
Speaker 1: in real life. And when you have that element um

746
00:44:53,320 --> 00:44:56,400
Speaker 1: and there are public you know, everyone on your social

747
00:44:56,400 --> 00:45:00,640
Speaker 1: media sphere is kind of saying, well, we're finding let's say,

748
00:45:00,719 --> 00:45:04,800
Speaker 1: jars of accelerants around town in bushes, or we're finding

749
00:45:05,480 --> 00:45:08,719
Speaker 1: rag soaked in gas. I mean, for example, my neighborhood

750
00:45:09,120 --> 00:45:13,360
Speaker 1: has one business in it and it's a lgbt Q

751
00:45:13,600 --> 00:45:18,799
Speaker 1: owned coffee shop. Two nights after the actual fires in

752
00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:21,439
Speaker 1: the main area stopped. It was lit on fire by

753
00:45:21,480 --> 00:45:24,000
Speaker 1: someone running down the street. You know. Like, there's stuff

754
00:45:24,040 --> 00:45:27,360
Speaker 1: that's happening, and I think it's a story that's going

755
00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:30,040
Speaker 1: to come out more fully as time passes, But it's

756
00:45:30,040 --> 00:45:35,239
Speaker 1: one that I think is important and extremely integral to

757
00:45:35,320 --> 00:45:39,319
Speaker 1: whatever the pushback that we're gonna see looks like I think,

758
00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:41,239
Speaker 1: you know, I think we have to be honest with

759
00:45:41,280 --> 00:45:46,120
Speaker 1: ourselves that the right is actually gonna probably look more

760
00:45:46,120 --> 00:45:48,520
Speaker 1: and more like an insurgency for us like this where

761
00:45:48,520 --> 00:45:52,680
Speaker 1: it's guys driving trucks, shooting randomly, lighting things on fire,

762
00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:56,959
Speaker 1: leaving KKK style notes, I mean truly like leaving notes

763
00:45:56,960 --> 00:45:59,640
Speaker 1: and neighborhoods and say we're watching you, We're gonna burn,

764
00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:02,840
Speaker 1: We're gonna burn you alive. I mean, you have a

765
00:46:02,920 --> 00:46:06,600
Speaker 1: very odd element mixed into this whole other revolutionary no

766
00:46:06,760 --> 00:46:09,719
Speaker 1: police things we're self policing in the midst of what

767
00:46:09,800 --> 00:46:12,399
Speaker 1: looks to be an insurgency campaign. So there are these

768
00:46:12,560 --> 00:46:17,239
Speaker 1: like very odd things going on. Um, and this isn't

769
00:46:17,280 --> 00:46:20,000
Speaker 1: just happening. I mean, Minneapolis, y'all are the epicenter of this,

770
00:46:20,080 --> 00:46:22,640
Speaker 1: but yesterday in Seattle, somebody tried to drive into a

771
00:46:22,640 --> 00:46:25,680
Speaker 1: crowd and then shot into the crowd. Somebody he was

772
00:46:25,719 --> 00:46:29,799
Speaker 1: a confirmed KKMBER. I believe there was definitely one that

773
00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:32,120
Speaker 1: was confirmed. I don't know where it was from because

774
00:46:32,120 --> 00:46:37,800
Speaker 1: there have been like twenty different cars that have driven okay,

775
00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:42,360
Speaker 1: so at least one of them confirmed KKK create KKK leader, like,

776
00:46:42,440 --> 00:46:44,880
Speaker 1: not just some low level leader. So I mean we

777
00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:48,000
Speaker 1: have to I think we need to. This is something

778
00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:50,080
Speaker 1: I've been thinking about for a long time. I think

779
00:46:50,120 --> 00:46:52,120
Speaker 1: we all have been. But there has to be a

780
00:46:52,120 --> 00:46:56,600
Speaker 1: conversation about what that is because that looks a lot

781
00:46:56,640 --> 00:47:02,040
Speaker 1: more like a far right Middle East stern terrorist campaign

782
00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:09,560
Speaker 1: than a traditional American conversation. Interesting that Antifa is the

783
00:47:09,600 --> 00:47:12,640
Speaker 1: one that they want to designate as a terrorist organization,

784
00:47:13,280 --> 00:47:16,839
Speaker 1: but that standard operating procedure from misinformation, you know, like

785
00:47:17,080 --> 00:47:19,919
Speaker 1: we're seeing we're seeing the worst of the worst when

786
00:47:19,920 --> 00:47:25,759
Speaker 1: it comes to just outright um manipulation of reality. And

787
00:47:25,800 --> 00:47:28,920
Speaker 1: I think, you know a lot of us know what

788
00:47:28,960 --> 00:47:31,319
Speaker 1: we're looking at, and a lot of people are starting to.

789
00:47:31,560 --> 00:47:35,120
Speaker 1: But I think this this whole thing that we're witnessing,

790
00:47:35,120 --> 00:47:42,799
Speaker 1: the uprising, the response is cracking. I think the neoliberal

791
00:47:42,840 --> 00:47:45,799
Speaker 1: shell a little bit. I don't think any I know

792
00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:48,239
Speaker 1: for myself, I never thought I would live to see

793
00:47:48,239 --> 00:47:54,560
Speaker 1: the day that the show shook. Yeah. Yeah, and one

794
00:47:54,560 --> 00:47:57,879
Speaker 1: of the most remarkable things of the last two weeks. Yeah,

795
00:47:57,920 --> 00:48:00,879
Speaker 1: it does unbelievable. And we kind of seemed to be

796
00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:04,120
Speaker 1: on the edge of everything, Like there's so much good

797
00:48:04,120 --> 00:48:06,400
Speaker 1: and bad news every day, Like just today, like the

798
00:48:06,440 --> 00:48:09,960
Speaker 1: police chief in Portland resigned after a bunch of police brutality.

799
00:48:10,239 --> 00:48:13,279
Speaker 1: Um Bennett, the head of the guy in the New

800
00:48:13,320 --> 00:48:16,920
Speaker 1: York Times editorial board who let a Senator Tom Cotton

801
00:48:17,040 --> 00:48:21,719
Speaker 1: right about murdering everybody who's protesting. That guy had to leave. Um.

802
00:48:21,800 --> 00:48:24,719
Speaker 1: You have Minneapolis with a veto proof majority of the

803
00:48:24,719 --> 00:48:28,160
Speaker 1: city council, like you know, trying to put an end

804
00:48:28,160 --> 00:48:30,439
Speaker 1: to the Minneapolis Police Department. At the same time, you've

805
00:48:30,440 --> 00:48:33,520
Speaker 1: got Seattle police using tear gas two nights in a

806
00:48:33,600 --> 00:48:35,680
Speaker 1: row after the mayor put in a moratorium on the

807
00:48:35,760 --> 00:48:38,000
Speaker 1: use of tear gas. I was gonna say, I believe

808
00:48:38,040 --> 00:48:40,560
Speaker 1: they didn't because they said they wouldn't write like that's

809
00:48:40,560 --> 00:48:42,960
Speaker 1: how this works now. We didn't do it because we

810
00:48:43,000 --> 00:48:47,319
Speaker 1: said we didn't. Don't believe your fit. Yeah, and what

811
00:48:47,360 --> 00:48:49,560
Speaker 1: the Portland Police has done is like, no, no, when

812
00:48:49,560 --> 00:48:52,720
Speaker 1: we said tear guess we just meant the the CS.

813
00:48:52,840 --> 00:48:55,040
Speaker 1: We can still use the O C tear gas because

814
00:48:55,080 --> 00:48:57,400
Speaker 1: it's like that that was the problem. Is the type

815
00:48:57,400 --> 00:49:01,120
Speaker 1: of the flavor of gas was the they're really splitting hairs.

816
00:49:01,760 --> 00:49:05,600
Speaker 1: But but that's the game. I think that's the game

817
00:49:05,600 --> 00:49:09,000
Speaker 1: now is split split the hairs as far as you can,

818
00:49:09,200 --> 00:49:12,360
Speaker 1: because otherwise they're gonna they've already lost control of the

819
00:49:12,440 --> 00:49:15,640
Speaker 1: narrative for the first time ever. I don't think anyone

820
00:49:15,880 --> 00:49:18,520
Speaker 1: in any position of power has a response to this

821
00:49:18,560 --> 00:49:22,239
Speaker 1: that isn't gonna look either contrived or racist. And that's

822
00:49:22,239 --> 00:49:25,160
Speaker 1: a very strange place to be for everyone who's used

823
00:49:25,160 --> 00:49:28,160
Speaker 1: to being able to get in on something and say, hey,

824
00:49:28,239 --> 00:49:31,840
Speaker 1: well maybe we can do something that's performative. As we

825
00:49:31,880 --> 00:49:35,720
Speaker 1: saw with like Chuck and Nancy this morning, that ship

826
00:49:35,760 --> 00:49:40,080
Speaker 1: doesn't fly anymore. We don't none of us care. It

827
00:49:40,239 --> 00:49:45,080
Speaker 1: just doesn't work. It looks cringe e as fun. That's

828
00:49:45,080 --> 00:49:49,200
Speaker 1: exactly what I said, And that's the reality. Like that's

829
00:49:49,239 --> 00:49:51,759
Speaker 1: the thing that we see. We're calling it as it

830
00:49:51,840 --> 00:49:53,839
Speaker 1: is now, and I think that that's a hard thing

831
00:49:54,239 --> 00:49:56,680
Speaker 1: for people to manage. I have never seen the right

832
00:49:56,800 --> 00:50:00,440
Speaker 1: be this quiet because they can't manage the percept part

833
00:50:00,480 --> 00:50:03,960
Speaker 1: of this, and that social engineering part is integral outside

834
00:50:04,000 --> 00:50:07,040
Speaker 1: of the racist part of things for them their survival.

835
00:50:07,080 --> 00:50:10,840
Speaker 1: And I don't know how you anyone has a pushback

836
00:50:10,880 --> 00:50:14,839
Speaker 1: mechanism against a popular uprising. Yeah. I mean you saw

837
00:50:14,960 --> 00:50:19,600
Speaker 1: Mitt Romney at a Black Lives Matter march yesterday. Yeah,

838
00:50:20,040 --> 00:50:22,680
Speaker 1: I mean even like yeah, like when you have everyone

839
00:50:23,200 --> 00:50:26,000
Speaker 1: not only saying like defund the police and things like that,

840
00:50:26,080 --> 00:50:28,680
Speaker 1: and being able to explain it to a right. So

841
00:50:28,680 --> 00:50:31,560
Speaker 1: many stories of people explaining that concept to their family

842
00:50:31,600 --> 00:50:34,400
Speaker 1: members who are pretty conservative and they say, like, and

843
00:50:34,440 --> 00:50:36,600
Speaker 1: then it made sense to them because it makes sense

844
00:50:37,160 --> 00:50:40,200
Speaker 1: all these people talking about this. And then like today,

845
00:50:40,480 --> 00:50:44,520
Speaker 1: Scott Walker tweeted, like defund the police or police reform.

846
00:50:44,680 --> 00:50:47,279
Speaker 1: I go with police reform, and it's like, okay, so

847
00:50:47,320 --> 00:50:54,160
Speaker 1: like that's the bare minimum. Now, oh my god, we

848
00:50:54,200 --> 00:50:58,439
Speaker 1: gotta do something police reform. The window moved so far

849
00:50:58,640 --> 00:51:02,960
Speaker 1: left so fast, I am whip. I have whiplash. Um

850
00:51:03,000 --> 00:51:04,600
Speaker 1: you know, like I think most of us were kind

851
00:51:04,600 --> 00:51:07,000
Speaker 1: of worried that we were gonna kind of march off

852
00:51:07,040 --> 00:51:10,600
Speaker 1: a cliff blindly into some weird flashes twilight zone because

853
00:51:10,640 --> 00:51:13,160
Speaker 1: we kind of had been and now it's just like,

854
00:51:13,640 --> 00:51:18,560
Speaker 1: uh yeah, bare minimum is uh reforms at at at

855
00:51:18,640 --> 00:51:21,600
Speaker 1: such a massive level, I don't think you can calm reform.

856
00:51:21,680 --> 00:51:25,759
Speaker 1: And the other direction is no, please, We're going to

857
00:51:25,840 --> 00:51:28,080
Speaker 1: figure out a better a better way, because there is

858
00:51:28,120 --> 00:51:32,799
Speaker 1: a better way. And I think what's interesting about all

859
00:51:32,840 --> 00:51:37,280
Speaker 1: of this and has struck me, like since the beginning

860
00:51:37,560 --> 00:51:43,680
Speaker 1: of the real transformation, during the kind of protests into

861
00:51:43,760 --> 00:51:48,840
Speaker 1: this movement, is people really are willing to put in

862
00:51:48,960 --> 00:51:52,200
Speaker 1: a lot of hard work to build something that works

863
00:51:52,239 --> 00:51:55,839
Speaker 1: for and reflects their community. And I think that that's

864
00:51:55,840 --> 00:51:58,239
Speaker 1: going to be, you know, that kind of thing. We're

865
00:51:58,280 --> 00:52:02,440
Speaker 1: never going to be able to go back, Like conversations

866
00:52:02,480 --> 00:52:06,120
Speaker 1: can't go back, just because the gravity of this has

867
00:52:06,160 --> 00:52:12,919
Speaker 1: pulled in so much more and it's unbelievable. And so

868
00:52:13,560 --> 00:52:15,840
Speaker 1: I'm kind of a little curious, you know. One of

869
00:52:15,880 --> 00:52:17,640
Speaker 1: the things that made me want to get you on here.

870
00:52:17,880 --> 00:52:19,719
Speaker 1: Um we were talking for a little bit sort of

871
00:52:19,800 --> 00:52:22,120
Speaker 1: when I was trying to get to Minneapolis before Portland's

872
00:52:22,120 --> 00:52:25,000
Speaker 1: broke out in riots. Um and in the weeks sin

873
00:52:25,200 --> 00:52:27,000
Speaker 1: or in the week and a half, however long, it's

874
00:52:27,280 --> 00:52:32,919
Speaker 1: been since. Um A lifetime, A lifetime, A lifetime. Yeah, Um,

875
00:52:33,120 --> 00:52:36,200
Speaker 1: you've started taking part in armed patrols of your neighborhood. Um,

876
00:52:36,200 --> 00:52:37,719
Speaker 1: And I wanted wanted you to talk a little bit

877
00:52:37,760 --> 00:52:40,520
Speaker 1: more about that, about like why y'all are doing that

878
00:52:40,560 --> 00:52:44,239
Speaker 1: and kind of what what the um, um, what sort

879
00:52:44,239 --> 00:52:45,799
Speaker 1: of purpose do you think that's going to serve as

880
00:52:45,840 --> 00:52:49,239
Speaker 1: things move forward? Well, so I live right in the

881
00:52:49,320 --> 00:52:53,239
Speaker 1: city essentially, like when the military was here, we're right

882
00:52:53,280 --> 00:52:57,120
Speaker 1: outside what they called the footprint, which I have feelings about,

883
00:52:57,120 --> 00:53:00,480
Speaker 1: but that's a different conversation. And you know, real blistically,

884
00:53:00,560 --> 00:53:03,000
Speaker 1: we didn't get messed with tons outside of that time

885
00:53:03,040 --> 00:53:06,000
Speaker 1: I said, um, where we had someone run up in

886
00:53:06,160 --> 00:53:10,799
Speaker 1: light a building on fire. Um, you know, outside of that,

887
00:53:10,840 --> 00:53:13,400
Speaker 1: we haven't had many issues. We've had people creeping around,

888
00:53:13,440 --> 00:53:17,000
Speaker 1: we've had weird stuff. But the community here started that

889
00:53:17,400 --> 00:53:20,080
Speaker 1: on Thursday night, I want to say, after things got

890
00:53:20,120 --> 00:53:23,440
Speaker 1: really heated. Um, we we or you know, they had

891
00:53:23,520 --> 00:53:26,200
Speaker 1: organized already probably like fifteen or twenty people, and then

892
00:53:26,200 --> 00:53:28,480
Speaker 1: it increased and increased again, and so there were a

893
00:53:28,520 --> 00:53:30,680
Speaker 1: number of people and it wasn't armed at that point,

894
00:53:30,920 --> 00:53:33,480
Speaker 1: and then it switched over to where a couple of

895
00:53:33,480 --> 00:53:37,160
Speaker 1: people were definitely ready to go, and things kind of

896
00:53:37,200 --> 00:53:40,759
Speaker 1: progressed from there, and now because things have calmed down,

897
00:53:40,880 --> 00:53:44,280
Speaker 1: we just we're kind of re evaluating. So it's interesting

898
00:53:44,719 --> 00:53:48,080
Speaker 1: up north of here, northern north Minneapolis, that's a wholly

899
00:53:48,120 --> 00:53:52,320
Speaker 1: different thing. What they're doing up there is I think magic.

900
00:53:52,560 --> 00:53:55,120
Speaker 1: They've they've figured out, I think, how to do a

901
00:53:55,239 --> 00:53:58,040
Speaker 1: nice balance of both with the community policing because they

902
00:53:58,080 --> 00:54:02,120
Speaker 1: got I mean, they were bombed, that's the best way

903
00:54:02,120 --> 00:54:05,200
Speaker 1: I can describe it. The two nights after the majority

904
00:54:05,239 --> 00:54:07,120
Speaker 1: of the action in the city and at the precinct,

905
00:54:07,239 --> 00:54:10,120
Speaker 1: they were attacked by these right wing extremists. And really

906
00:54:10,120 --> 00:54:13,200
Speaker 1: what happened up there is they decided we're not the

907
00:54:13,200 --> 00:54:16,239
Speaker 1: cops aren't coming. There's no one here to protect us

908
00:54:16,280 --> 00:54:19,160
Speaker 1: but ourselves, and they've really organized something that I think

909
00:54:19,560 --> 00:54:22,759
Speaker 1: is a model to explore. You know, what I'm doing

910
00:54:22,840 --> 00:54:25,719
Speaker 1: here and what's happened here where I am is I

911
00:54:25,760 --> 00:54:30,080
Speaker 1: think more of an experiment that started based on a

912
00:54:30,200 --> 00:54:36,080
Speaker 1: much more peaceful model. And because it's offensive, it's different.

913
00:54:36,120 --> 00:54:38,080
Speaker 1: You know, it's just such a different concept now that

914
00:54:38,120 --> 00:54:41,560
Speaker 1: you even are having a conversation like this where we're

915
00:54:41,560 --> 00:54:46,080
Speaker 1: talking about just people in the public patrolling or watching,

916
00:54:46,400 --> 00:54:49,760
Speaker 1: who are ready to go into action to stop someone

917
00:54:49,800 --> 00:54:52,880
Speaker 1: from doing something bad, and they're willing to put themselves

918
00:54:52,880 --> 00:54:55,400
Speaker 1: on the line. It was a strange time. You know.

919
00:54:55,480 --> 00:54:58,279
Speaker 1: We had armed national guards that would come out in

920
00:54:58,400 --> 00:55:02,920
Speaker 1: convoys of thirty or forty troops at a time, plus humbies,

921
00:55:03,080 --> 00:55:06,799
Speaker 1: plus support vehicles. So you have that, but then you

922
00:55:06,840 --> 00:55:10,160
Speaker 1: have armed citizens basically at night all night for the

923
00:55:10,280 --> 00:55:13,799
Speaker 1: a few nights during the major parts of the concerning

924
00:55:14,000 --> 00:55:16,200
Speaker 1: time right after that, when we were being told there

925
00:55:16,239 --> 00:55:19,280
Speaker 1: were white supremacists running around and there were random shootings

926
00:55:19,320 --> 00:55:23,480
Speaker 1: every night. I mean it, it's become something that feels

927
00:55:23,520 --> 00:55:26,799
Speaker 1: normal now, but like that's ten days. I think this

928
00:55:26,880 --> 00:55:28,760
Speaker 1: is a really easy thing for a lot of people

929
00:55:28,800 --> 00:55:32,680
Speaker 1: to understand when they're in that moment. But when you've

930
00:55:32,719 --> 00:55:36,279
Speaker 1: never been faced with the situation that your neighbors, who

931
00:55:36,480 --> 00:55:41,319
Speaker 1: are way more um at risk than you'll ever be,

932
00:55:41,880 --> 00:55:44,840
Speaker 1: are being threatened by people who really had no problem

933
00:55:44,920 --> 00:55:47,880
Speaker 1: hurting them, it changes the whole dynamic, you know. Like

934
00:55:47,960 --> 00:55:53,680
Speaker 1: for me, it was a simple why wouldn't I you know, like,

935
00:55:53,840 --> 00:55:56,080
Speaker 1: and there's so many things I think a lot of

936
00:55:56,120 --> 00:56:00,600
Speaker 1: people are going to say, well, you know, that's that's

937
00:56:00,640 --> 00:56:03,640
Speaker 1: extreme or something like that, And I think what what

938
00:56:03,719 --> 00:56:06,839
Speaker 1: I'm realizing is, Yeah, it looks extreme, but it looks

939
00:56:06,880 --> 00:56:10,439
Speaker 1: way less extreme than watching someone get choked to death

940
00:56:10,480 --> 00:56:14,600
Speaker 1: on the ground for eight minutes. And and frankly, my

941
00:56:14,719 --> 00:56:18,759
Speaker 1: neighborhood is sweet. In the neighborhoods who adopt this, I

942
00:56:18,800 --> 00:56:20,719
Speaker 1: think are gonna see I think we're gonna start to

943
00:56:20,760 --> 00:56:25,200
Speaker 1: see great numbers when it comes to drops in crime. Frankly,

944
00:56:25,320 --> 00:56:28,879
Speaker 1: like when you talk to people who have been here

945
00:56:28,920 --> 00:56:31,720
Speaker 1: as long as I have, in different parts of the city,

946
00:56:31,880 --> 00:56:34,319
Speaker 1: they've already said that they don't have issues like they

947
00:56:34,440 --> 00:56:36,719
Speaker 1: used to. Whether it's because the police were causing them

948
00:56:36,840 --> 00:56:39,319
Speaker 1: or whether it's because people respect a community that takes

949
00:56:39,360 --> 00:56:42,480
Speaker 1: care of itself, that's to be seen. It's an interesting thing.

950
00:56:43,440 --> 00:56:47,200
Speaker 1: And when you invest in your community and it's safety,

951
00:56:47,239 --> 00:56:51,520
Speaker 1: I think people are less likely to screw off because

952
00:56:51,560 --> 00:56:54,160
Speaker 1: they don't think you know, they feel like they're getting

953
00:56:54,200 --> 00:56:58,840
Speaker 1: something over on friends versus getting something over on the man. Yeah,

954
00:56:59,040 --> 00:57:02,120
Speaker 1: it's a weird thing like that. That shift alone is

955
00:57:04,080 --> 00:57:11,120
Speaker 1: I mean unbelievable. Yeah, Like I you know, I want

956
00:57:11,120 --> 00:57:12,480
Speaker 1: to I want to be able to say more, but

957
00:57:12,480 --> 00:57:16,000
Speaker 1: there's really it's just such a shocking and abrupt change.

958
00:57:16,040 --> 00:57:20,000
Speaker 1: It feels like it went from being a military like

959
00:57:20,320 --> 00:57:24,560
Speaker 1: dictatorship on the ground because our police really just our dicks,

960
00:57:25,400 --> 00:57:29,240
Speaker 1: as we all have seen, um, but to being something

961
00:57:29,280 --> 00:57:32,480
Speaker 1: that's just so different, but it doesn't feel any less safe.

962
00:57:33,360 --> 00:57:38,920
Speaker 1: You know, like your day just doesn't feel different. You

963
00:57:38,960 --> 00:57:42,600
Speaker 1: don't get parking tickets. I mean, you know there are

964
00:57:42,600 --> 00:57:45,440
Speaker 1: things like that, but like it's weird, like it's just

965
00:57:45,520 --> 00:57:51,320
Speaker 1: subtle stuff, but you notice it where you're just like, oh, okay, now,

966
00:57:51,360 --> 00:57:57,000
Speaker 1: does this feel like something that is sustainable? Absolutely? I think,

967
00:57:57,080 --> 00:57:59,640
Speaker 1: you know, I think that the question isn't it whether

968
00:57:59,680 --> 00:58:03,200
Speaker 1: it's sustainable, it's whether the system that we live in

969
00:58:03,840 --> 00:58:08,919
Speaker 1: can sustain us. And that's what we're seeing like right now.

970
00:58:09,000 --> 00:58:11,280
Speaker 1: I think they're gonna be major questions that come from

971
00:58:11,280 --> 00:58:14,400
Speaker 1: this about universal basic income, about giving people the dignity

972
00:58:14,400 --> 00:58:17,560
Speaker 1: to just live a freaking one and if they're doing

973
00:58:17,640 --> 00:58:22,280
Speaker 1: that kind of stuff for the community correctly compensated, how

974
00:58:22,280 --> 00:58:24,720
Speaker 1: do you make with the trade off here well? And

975
00:58:24,840 --> 00:58:28,880
Speaker 1: how do you how do you give people some freaking

976
00:58:29,080 --> 00:58:31,880
Speaker 1: just a chance, Like that's all we're asking for. I

977
00:58:31,880 --> 00:58:34,640
Speaker 1: think that's all anyone wants is a chance, and I

978
00:58:34,680 --> 00:58:38,680
Speaker 1: think that that's going to become more. You know, there's

979
00:58:38,680 --> 00:58:42,120
Speaker 1: this there's an economic component to this social movement and

980
00:58:42,160 --> 00:58:45,320
Speaker 1: revolution that is going to become more and more I

981
00:58:45,360 --> 00:58:50,520
Speaker 1: think important in the conversation about longevity, but also about

982
00:58:50,720 --> 00:58:54,720
Speaker 1: what it is actually that's built the systems we're talking about.

983
00:58:55,080 --> 00:58:58,120
Speaker 1: There's a lot going on here. Yeah, And you hear

984
00:58:58,120 --> 00:59:00,280
Speaker 1: it on the street, you know, like those first couple nights,

985
00:59:00,280 --> 00:59:03,840
Speaker 1: you hear people saying out loud, COVID may kill me.

986
00:59:04,040 --> 00:59:07,439
Speaker 1: I'm broke. What else do we have left to do? Yeah?

987
00:59:07,880 --> 00:59:10,760
Speaker 1: And what do we have to lose here? Exactly? This

988
00:59:10,800 --> 00:59:14,440
Speaker 1: ship has to change. Well, we have everything to gain. Like,

989
00:59:14,480 --> 00:59:15,920
Speaker 1: look at what we've done it, Look at what we've

990
00:59:15,960 --> 00:59:19,320
Speaker 1: done in two weeks. I mean, at this point, Pandora

991
00:59:19,480 --> 00:59:24,880
Speaker 1: has opened a box that's between the pandemic, shifting all

992
00:59:24,920 --> 00:59:30,520
Speaker 1: of the social norms and this it's a new world. Yeah,

993
00:59:30,640 --> 00:59:35,720
Speaker 1: And I think people are just realizing that, yeah, because

994
00:59:35,720 --> 00:59:38,640
Speaker 1: I mean, hell, we've been living in such a weird

995
00:59:38,720 --> 00:59:43,080
Speaker 1: thing that's just shifted than the whole thing again, it's

996
00:59:43,120 --> 00:59:47,840
Speaker 1: just it's bizarre. Yeah. Yeah, Like you know, like normally,

997
00:59:48,120 --> 00:59:50,800
Speaker 1: normally I would try and make some kind of clever.

998
00:59:50,920 --> 00:59:52,800
Speaker 1: Well reasons, I don't think there is one. I think

999
00:59:52,800 --> 00:59:56,080
Speaker 1: we're living through something that is literally so fluid that

1000
00:59:57,080 --> 01:00:00,960
Speaker 1: none of my guesses mad Really, I don't think any

1001
01:00:01,000 --> 01:00:03,680
Speaker 1: of us know what tomorrow brings. And I'm you know,

1002
01:00:03,760 --> 01:00:05,720
Speaker 1: I'm totally cool with that. It's the first time, I

1003
01:00:05,720 --> 01:00:07,560
Speaker 1: think in any of our lives where we can say,

1004
01:00:07,600 --> 01:00:09,640
Speaker 1: you know what, it's all up in the air. It

1005
01:00:09,720 --> 01:00:12,880
Speaker 1: could go any direction. Yeah, and it's kind of up

1006
01:00:12,920 --> 01:00:16,640
Speaker 1: to everyone continuing to be active to start. You know,

1007
01:00:16,680 --> 01:00:22,520
Speaker 1: at some point these the street protests, um will die down,

1008
01:00:22,680 --> 01:00:24,440
Speaker 1: and there's there's a chance that they'll die down for

1009
01:00:24,480 --> 01:00:26,320
Speaker 1: just a few weeks and then the police will murder

1010
01:00:26,320 --> 01:00:31,160
Speaker 1: somebody else and they crop up again. Um. But it's, um,

1011
01:00:31,200 --> 01:00:33,240
Speaker 1: this has to be a long haul, you know, like

1012
01:00:33,280 --> 01:00:35,880
Speaker 1: the Montgomery bus boycott lasted over a year, you know,

1013
01:00:36,000 --> 01:00:40,240
Speaker 1: like talking like this is a long term project now. Yeah,

1014
01:00:40,320 --> 01:00:42,480
Speaker 1: And I think what we'll probably see obviously we're seeing

1015
01:00:42,480 --> 01:00:45,560
Speaker 1: Minneapolis starting to experiment with like what if we just

1016
01:00:45,560 --> 01:00:47,760
Speaker 1: get rid of our police department. I hope we'll see

1017
01:00:47,760 --> 01:00:49,840
Speaker 1: at least a couple of other Like I'm I hope

1018
01:00:49,840 --> 01:00:51,280
Speaker 1: we'll see that in Portland. I hope we'll see at

1019
01:00:51,320 --> 01:00:53,600
Speaker 1: least a few other cities attempt something like that in

1020
01:00:53,640 --> 01:00:56,960
Speaker 1: the next six months. And I think we will get

1021
01:00:57,000 --> 01:01:00,960
Speaker 1: reforms in other places, and I hope that the examples

1022
01:01:01,000 --> 01:01:02,920
Speaker 1: of the places who do get rid of their police

1023
01:01:02,960 --> 01:01:05,960
Speaker 1: departments will lead to that happening more often. Like I

1024
01:01:06,240 --> 01:01:09,800
Speaker 1: don't We're not going to have This isn't a situation

1025
01:01:09,800 --> 01:01:12,439
Speaker 1: where we're going to have like the the entire order

1026
01:01:12,520 --> 01:01:15,240
Speaker 1: overturned overnight. It's just not going to happen. The momentum

1027
01:01:15,280 --> 01:01:19,200
Speaker 1: not there, the weaponry is not there, like whatever. Um.

1028
01:01:19,240 --> 01:01:21,120
Speaker 1: But I end in reality, I don't think you could

1029
01:01:21,160 --> 01:01:24,200
Speaker 1: pull that off here, Like there's just no there's no

1030
01:01:24,800 --> 01:01:28,640
Speaker 1: on what's needed exactly. But I think there is consensus

1031
01:01:28,680 --> 01:01:31,440
Speaker 1: that policing needs to change, and I think there's a

1032
01:01:31,480 --> 01:01:33,520
Speaker 1: growing support for the idea that like, maybe we don't

1033
01:01:33,560 --> 01:01:36,400
Speaker 1: need cops in the sense that cops have existed for

1034
01:01:36,480 --> 01:01:39,600
Speaker 1: all of our lives. Yeah, I think that's accurate. I

1035
01:01:39,640 --> 01:01:42,400
Speaker 1: think that's absolutely on on on the head. You know.

1036
01:01:42,480 --> 01:01:44,440
Speaker 1: I think the people are just ready to try, you know,

1037
01:01:44,480 --> 01:01:47,800
Speaker 1: like the American experiment. Man, like this is our experiment.

1038
01:01:47,920 --> 01:01:54,439
Speaker 1: Let's try some cool, bold things like yeah, so let's

1039
01:01:54,480 --> 01:01:57,120
Speaker 1: all try some cool bold things. Is a good good

1040
01:01:57,120 --> 01:02:00,560
Speaker 1: note to end on. Um, do you have anything you

1041
01:02:00,600 --> 01:02:03,800
Speaker 1: want to direct our audience towards, uh, in terms of donations,

1042
01:02:03,840 --> 01:02:06,320
Speaker 1: in terms of you know, or if they've got an

1043
01:02:06,440 --> 01:02:09,240
Speaker 1: LP you want to plug? No, actually, you know, I

1044
01:02:09,320 --> 01:02:12,640
Speaker 1: really don't. Um, you know, I I'm on Twitter. I'm

1045
01:02:12,640 --> 01:02:15,360
Speaker 1: trying to figure out how to kind of get get

1046
01:02:15,400 --> 01:02:18,080
Speaker 1: some other things going. I'm gonna probably try and get

1047
01:02:18,120 --> 01:02:21,640
Speaker 1: together my thoughts on on how propaganda's affected the arguments

1048
01:02:21,680 --> 01:02:24,720
Speaker 1: that we're seeing now being brought forward, and I may

1049
01:02:24,760 --> 01:02:26,560
Speaker 1: try and turn that into something, but that's kind of

1050
01:02:26,560 --> 01:02:28,560
Speaker 1: in the planning phases. But you can find me a

1051
01:02:28,600 --> 01:02:31,840
Speaker 1: brain not on yet on Twitter, and uh, you know,

1052
01:02:32,160 --> 01:02:36,240
Speaker 1: I'm just kind of here right now. All right, Well, um, okay,

1053
01:02:36,360 --> 01:02:40,200
Speaker 1: that's great. I think we've got us an interview here. Alright.

1054
01:02:40,240 --> 01:02:43,760
Speaker 1: That does it for us today, guys. Thank you for listening,

1055
01:02:44,040 --> 01:02:46,800
Speaker 1: and thank you for listening. You can check us out

1056
01:02:47,080 --> 01:02:52,360
Speaker 1: online at Worst Year Pod, Instagram, Twitter, That's it. Those

1057
01:02:52,360 --> 01:03:00,320
Speaker 1: are the options. Do it anything else you do and

1058
01:03:00,440 --> 01:03:07,560
Speaker 1: we'll find out everything. So dull everything, so dump it's

1059
01:03:07,560 --> 01:03:14,000
Speaker 1: not again. I tried, Daniel. Worst Year Ever is a

1060
01:03:14,040 --> 01:03:16,680
Speaker 1: production of i heart Radio. For more podcasts from my

1061
01:03:16,760 --> 01:03:19,800
Speaker 1: heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

1062
01:03:19,920 --> 01:03:21,760
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.