WEBVTT - An Uphill Battle to the Kremlin 0:00:02.480 --> 0:00:03.080 Media. 0:00:03.240 --> 0:00:05.200 Something strange is going on. 0:00:05.760 --> 0:00:08.080 Another member of the Russian elite has been found dead. 0:00:08.840 --> 0:00:11.200 Reports suggests that he fell out of a window, poisoned 0:00:11.200 --> 0:00:12.920 with mushrooms. 0:00:12.200 --> 0:00:13.960 Died of heart failure, died. 0:00:13.800 --> 0:00:17.000 Of carbon monoxide poisoning. How comes you are they? 0:00:18.120 --> 0:00:22.919 Dozens of Russian oligachs, politically motivated millionaires have died in 0:00:22.960 --> 0:00:28.040 the space for three years, most of them in suspicious circumstances. 0:00:28.360 --> 0:00:32.159 Many have hidden links to the Kremlin. This is sad 0:00:32.200 --> 0:00:37.960 Oligach season two, an ongoing investigation into these recently dead 0:00:38.120 --> 0:00:42.880 Russian power brokers. Sad Oligach is created by me Jake 0:00:42.960 --> 0:00:47.920 Hanrahan and my Ukrainian colleague, Sergey Slipchenkong. This is a 0:00:48.120 --> 0:00:58.400 H eleven studio and Coolso Media production. We're now halfway 0:00:58.440 --> 0:01:03.160 through season two of sad Oligach, so this episode is 0:01:03.360 --> 0:01:08.640 an interlude of sorts. As you can probably imagine, the 0:01:08.680 --> 0:01:12.960 work that goes into this project is absolutely massive. We're 0:01:13.040 --> 0:01:19.520 knackerd We're essentially fighting an uphill battle against Kremlin state media, 0:01:19.840 --> 0:01:25.120 FSB interference and a huge Russian wall of silence. It's 0:01:25.160 --> 0:01:30.199 all become extremely difficult to navigate, especially for season two. 0:01:31.360 --> 0:01:34.360 We also don't have the resources to spend months on 0:01:34.400 --> 0:01:37.080 the ground in Russia. I actually can't even go to 0:01:37.160 --> 0:01:41.480 the country, and as a proud Ukrainian, Surgery is of 0:01:41.600 --> 0:01:44.520 course not about to jump on a flight to Moscow. 0:01:46.200 --> 0:01:48.640 So for this interlude, we want to share with you 0:01:48.920 --> 0:01:52.760 some of the behind the scenes struggles of what you 0:01:52.800 --> 0:01:58.800 could call the sad Oligach extended universe. Now, this is 0:01:58.840 --> 0:02:01.560 not to be like, oh for us. The point I'm 0:02:01.560 --> 0:02:04.880 making is things have shifted massively since when we first 0:02:04.880 --> 0:02:08.160 started reporting on this in twenty twenty two to twenty 0:02:08.200 --> 0:02:12.040 twenty three. I think that in itself is a big 0:02:12.080 --> 0:02:16.240 indicator of what's going on with this possible deep state 0:02:16.320 --> 0:02:20.799 Russian conspiracy to take out perceived enemies of the state. 0:02:21.840 --> 0:02:24.280 So me and Surgery sat down to discuss all of 0:02:24.320 --> 0:02:31.560 this going forward. When we first started this project two 0:02:31.639 --> 0:02:35.880 years ago or now, it definitely was not easy, but 0:02:36.080 --> 0:02:39.919 I feel like it was a lot easier perhaps than 0:02:39.960 --> 0:02:42.920 it is now. This second season, it's just been chaos, 0:02:42.960 --> 0:02:45.600 trying to dig into stuff. Add one and two together. 0:02:45.680 --> 0:02:49.120 It's been a lot. What would you say has been 0:02:49.560 --> 0:02:54.440 the hardest part this series? Like, what's been more difficult 0:02:54.440 --> 0:02:55.480 than it was previously. 0:02:56.240 --> 0:02:59.600 Honestly, it's like it almost seems like people are maybe 0:02:59.639 --> 0:03:01.440 tired of this or bored of it in a sense, 0:03:01.480 --> 0:03:03.640 like it lost its novelty or something. Because a lot 0:03:03.680 --> 0:03:07.919 of these stories I'm looking at, like articles, like even 0:03:07.960 --> 0:03:11.240 like English media or like Western media and Russian media, 0:03:11.280 --> 0:03:15.079 it almost seems like they're it's like lost its novelty again, right, 0:03:16.160 --> 0:03:19.800 a lot less details. I mean, with all of these stories, 0:03:19.840 --> 0:03:25.000 there's practically no updates at all. It's usually like, oh, 0:03:25.280 --> 0:03:28.240 like the guy hung himself and yeah, there's no updates. 0:03:28.320 --> 0:03:31.720 You know, with the previous stories, like so the first 0:03:31.760 --> 0:03:34.200 season was like what twenty two the deaths were from 0:03:34.240 --> 0:03:38.040 like twenty twenty two, twenty twenty three, right, there was 0:03:38.040 --> 0:03:40.280 a bit more details. They would dig in a bit more. 0:03:42.000 --> 0:03:44.720 You'd get maybe like oh, like the police were investigating, 0:03:44.720 --> 0:03:46.720 and like the case is open and they're doing something. 0:03:47.440 --> 0:03:49.760 Now it just seems to be like the bare minimum. 0:03:49.840 --> 0:03:53.680 It's like, oh, this person was working at this office, 0:03:53.800 --> 0:03:56.960 they did this thing, and now they're dead. It's really 0:03:57.000 --> 0:03:59.520 like it's almost like a little blurb at this point. 0:04:00.560 --> 0:04:02.080 And you know, on one hand, you could say maybe 0:04:02.120 --> 0:04:04.400 some of the deaths are less notable. You know, we 0:04:04.480 --> 0:04:08.920 had like Pregosion, we had like Rapaport, like these big 0:04:08.960 --> 0:04:12.800 profile cases, but we've had some pretty big profile cases 0:04:12.800 --> 0:04:15.760 in the second season as well. So it's not to 0:04:15.800 --> 0:04:18.160 say that like, oh, these people are less interesting or 0:04:18.240 --> 0:04:23.080 less important, like I would say, you know, it depends 0:04:23.080 --> 0:04:24.760 on the case by case, but some of these people 0:04:24.760 --> 0:04:27.960 are just as big as the previous cases we covered. 0:04:27.960 --> 0:04:30.960 But the information is just really hard to find. I 0:04:30.960 --> 0:04:34.039 don't know if it's you know, intentional censoring or kind 0:04:34.040 --> 0:04:37.159 of like the government being more the Russian government being 0:04:37.160 --> 0:04:41.400 more kind of like maybe kind of like selective with 0:04:41.560 --> 0:04:45.520 what to announce, on what to say, or maybe it's 0:04:45.560 --> 0:04:47.680 just a genuine kind of like getting tired of it 0:04:47.800 --> 0:04:51.080 kind of thing, right, like a fatigue. But the overall 0:04:51.080 --> 0:04:54.839 effect is there's just way less information, way less details. 0:04:55.640 --> 0:04:59.000 I feel like the most details I find is independent 0:04:59.120 --> 0:05:04.440 like telegram channels posting stuff. Maybe people who were like 0:05:04.760 --> 0:05:07.839 walking by it like a like a death right, like 0:05:08.160 --> 0:05:10.240 some citizens came over and filmed it and then they 0:05:10.240 --> 0:05:11.919 send it to a telegram channel. Like that's where I 0:05:11.920 --> 0:05:15.839 find the most information. Like the the guy that like 0:05:16.080 --> 0:05:18.840 allegedly shut himself with a shotgun that was only because 0:05:18.880 --> 0:05:21.760 somebody stopped behind his car and like filmed it, right, 0:05:22.560 --> 0:05:24.400 and that's all I was kind of that was like 0:05:24.400 --> 0:05:26.760 the epitome of the reporting that we saw from that. 0:05:27.800 --> 0:05:30.760 The actual news outlets didn't they get into anything past that, 0:05:31.279 --> 0:05:33.320 and it's just kind of tough finding anything. 0:05:33.680 --> 0:05:36.159 Yeah, I definitely agree. I think that's a good point. 0:05:36.240 --> 0:05:40.840 I don't know if it's fatigue Ukraine fatigue, which I 0:05:40.880 --> 0:05:43.400 think is a knock on effective it And I say 0:05:43.440 --> 0:05:45.120 that and I don't mean it that way because it 0:05:45.200 --> 0:05:48.599 sounds brutal, but unfortunately, I think the way the press is, 0:05:48.760 --> 0:05:53.240 especially with war and conflict, it will focus wholeheardly on 0:05:53.279 --> 0:05:58.120 something that they feel people will read and get clicks on, 0:05:58.279 --> 0:06:02.320 as opposed to what information should we be letting the world? No, 0:06:02.520 --> 0:06:03.919 you know what I mean. I feel like there's a 0:06:04.000 --> 0:06:06.800 very big shift in journalism in general in that way. 0:06:07.200 --> 0:06:09.040 And I feel like there was a lot of attention 0:06:09.200 --> 0:06:13.240 on Ukraine of course for the first year, massively rightly so, 0:06:13.440 --> 0:06:16.120 and then the second year at Wayne and now I 0:06:16.200 --> 0:06:20.880 feel like it's even less and hand in hand, yeah, 0:06:20.920 --> 0:06:25.240 the press is definitely a lot less interested. I don't know, 0:06:25.320 --> 0:06:26.599 do you think it may be linked to that? It 0:06:26.640 --> 0:06:27.400 feels like that to. 0:06:27.360 --> 0:06:29.920 Me, it could definitely be an. I mean, it can 0:06:30.080 --> 0:06:32.560 entirely blame them. It's like the first time Ukraine hit 0:06:32.640 --> 0:06:35.560 a I don't know, like something in Crimea, or when 0:06:35.560 --> 0:06:39.359 it invaded Kursk, right, Like those are exciting things, new things, 0:06:39.360 --> 0:06:40.880 but if you look at it, like if you follow 0:06:40.880 --> 0:06:43.280 with day by day, it's a lot of the same 0:06:43.360 --> 0:06:46.559 kind of happening, Like how many times can you say, 0:06:46.720 --> 0:06:50.359 you know that Ukraine hit oil refinery in Russia. A 0:06:50.360 --> 0:06:51.919 lot of people don't know where it is. They just 0:06:52.040 --> 0:06:55.360 hear like a different city or maybe like a target, 0:06:55.360 --> 0:06:57.719 like the target was a far distance away, so that's interesting. 0:06:57.760 --> 0:06:59.840 But other than that, it's you know, it's really kind 0:06:59.880 --> 0:07:01.760 of same thing over and over again, like how many 0:07:01.800 --> 0:07:04.839 times can you report on it? And I think that's 0:07:04.920 --> 0:07:07.240 kind of what's happening here. You know, another guy thought 0:07:07.240 --> 0:07:11.160 out the window, another person hung themselves, and especially with 0:07:11.240 --> 0:07:14.160 them giving so little details, it's almost like they wanted 0:07:14.160 --> 0:07:17.600 to be boring, like as boring and uninteresting as possible, right, 0:07:18.360 --> 0:07:20.200 And I think it's like the only thing that's changing 0:07:20.320 --> 0:07:22.440 is the names basically maybe the name of the city 0:07:23.640 --> 0:07:25.720 and then maybe like one or two details around it 0:07:26.400 --> 0:07:28.680 even like you remember some of the first that's we'd 0:07:28.720 --> 0:07:30.440 have a death and there would be a note, and 0:07:30.480 --> 0:07:31.960 we'd have like a picture of the note or at 0:07:32.040 --> 0:07:35.840 least that transcribing of the note written out. Now it's like, oh, 0:07:35.880 --> 0:07:37.960 he left the note, but let's say we don't know 0:07:38.000 --> 0:07:40.480 what they wrote. They kind of don't publish that anymore. 0:07:41.080 --> 0:07:43.480 It almost seems like they kind of like don't want 0:07:43.560 --> 0:07:45.160 attention on it, and like they kind of want to 0:07:45.200 --> 0:07:48.680 kill the interest before it kind of gets out there 0:07:48.720 --> 0:07:50.160 and people start looking into it more. 0:07:50.440 --> 0:07:53.680 I think you're right, but I think regarding the Ukraine thing, 0:07:53.720 --> 0:07:57.880 it's almost a problem with the media not necessarily what's happening. 0:07:58.040 --> 0:07:59.680 You are right, like, there's only so many times you 0:07:59.720 --> 0:08:01.840 can say this front line got breached and blah blah. 0:08:01.880 --> 0:08:04.920 Unless you're like kind of you know, kind of conflict 0:08:04.920 --> 0:08:07.840 anoraks as we are. It's not that interesting to your 0:08:07.840 --> 0:08:12.760 average person. However, there are so many stories within that 0:08:12.760 --> 0:08:14.600 that could be told. You know, I know so many 0:08:14.640 --> 0:08:18.000 reporters that are out there finding really interesting human stories. 0:08:18.000 --> 0:08:20.680 You know, Granny is on the front line. She's turned 0:08:20.680 --> 0:08:25.120 her house into like a makeshift hospital for soldiers, and 0:08:25.160 --> 0:08:27.120 you know, stuff like this, and I feel unfortunately there's 0:08:27.120 --> 0:08:29.640 a lot less funding for that style of reporting. I 0:08:29.640 --> 0:08:31.480 think the two go hand in hand. It's kind of 0:08:32.400 --> 0:08:35.640 not enough shocking new things are happening, but there's also 0:08:35.920 --> 0:08:40.200 not the resources to tell the more deeper stories out there. 0:08:40.240 --> 0:08:42.880 For example, I can't see anyone else would have done, 0:08:43.320 --> 0:08:46.959 you know, like I did with Frontline Huligan when we 0:08:46.960 --> 0:08:49.040 were out there trying to find out, you know, what 0:08:49.240 --> 0:08:53.199 was the makeup of the territorial forces, which obviously, by 0:08:53.240 --> 0:08:55.640 the time we finished editing, the war had fully stied. 0:08:56.120 --> 0:08:58.480 I feel like there's two things going on there. But 0:08:58.960 --> 0:09:02.360 definitely the side of things with the media is crazy. 0:09:02.640 --> 0:09:08.760 For example, when we did like episode one of season 0:09:08.800 --> 0:09:11.720 one that we did so Vasilli Melnikov, the guy who 0:09:11.760 --> 0:09:16.880 allegedly murdered his old family and killed himself Nizgy Novgorod, 0:09:16.920 --> 0:09:19.320 that very nice area in Moscow where a lot of 0:09:19.360 --> 0:09:23.520 these oligs actually had strange deaths. You know, there was 0:09:23.559 --> 0:09:25.280 so many details, Like you said, there was I think 0:09:25.280 --> 0:09:27.960 there was a note with that. There was the knife 0:09:27.960 --> 0:09:31.600 that he allegedly did it with. There were scenes photos 0:09:31.640 --> 0:09:34.880 from the crime scene. There was even one of the 0:09:34.920 --> 0:09:37.320 other deaths where the guy had you know, cut his 0:09:37.360 --> 0:09:39.080 wrists and he was in the bath and there was 0:09:39.360 --> 0:09:43.040 even images from the bathroom this season. I don't know 0:09:43.040 --> 0:09:45.199 about you. Obviously were halfway through, but we've done a 0:09:45.200 --> 0:09:47.600 lot of research already for the rest of it. I 0:09:47.720 --> 0:09:52.160 haven't seen a single crime scene photo regarding any of 0:09:52.200 --> 0:09:54.920 these deaths. I've not even seen a photo of evidence 0:09:55.040 --> 0:09:57.760 of what happens. At best, we get some kind of 0:09:58.280 --> 0:10:02.720 long range show of like authorities pulling a body out 0:10:02.720 --> 0:10:08.719 of somewhere. Maybe okay, now it's time for a quick outbreak, 0:10:13.960 --> 0:10:16.800 all right, not for that, now back to the shore. 0:10:20.520 --> 0:10:23.439 I feel like there's been a kind of concerted effort, 0:10:23.960 --> 0:10:26.600 maybe straight from the Kremlin. I mean, the press is 0:10:26.760 --> 0:10:29.080 mostly controlled by the Kremlin, so maybe they kind of 0:10:29.160 --> 0:10:32.640 understand not to but I do feel like there's almost 0:10:32.640 --> 0:10:35.240 a concerted effort to be like, right, we're going to 0:10:35.320 --> 0:10:38.240 continue if this is what happening, which I think it's clear, 0:10:38.400 --> 0:10:41.800 is we're going to continue taking out people that mess 0:10:41.840 --> 0:10:44.080 with the state mostly. I think this kind of points 0:10:44.080 --> 0:10:46.400 back to stealing and spying. We're going to take them 0:10:46.400 --> 0:10:48.839 out the way we do it, but there's going to 0:10:48.880 --> 0:10:51.960 be a lot less details. I don't know, am I 0:10:52.000 --> 0:10:52.760 being paranoid. 0:10:53.120 --> 0:10:55.360 I know, I think that's right. Like as you mentioned 0:10:55.640 --> 0:11:00.160 with Melnico, No, it was the very first one call 0:11:00.200 --> 0:11:01.680 his name, but yeah, he's the guy that was in 0:11:01.760 --> 0:11:05.280 the gas Promb's nest. Right that episode, we had a 0:11:05.320 --> 0:11:06.960 photo not of the bathtub. We had a photo of 0:11:07.000 --> 0:11:10.319 him next to the bathtub, right like clearly a crime 0:11:10.360 --> 0:11:13.000 scene photo. He's laying on the floor. I believe it 0:11:13.040 --> 0:11:14.840 was face down. You can see the cast on his 0:11:14.960 --> 0:11:17.600 leg that they attributed, like that he was in too 0:11:17.679 --> 0:11:20.559 much pain and that's why he did it. We have 0:11:20.679 --> 0:11:22.520 like a full on photo of him laying there like 0:11:22.760 --> 0:11:26.120 clearly dead, you know, on the floor, Like the crime 0:11:26.160 --> 0:11:28.160 scene is right there. It's not like it's not like 0:11:28.200 --> 0:11:30.440 a distance photo or anything like. It's it had to 0:11:30.480 --> 0:11:32.400 have been taken by like I assume some kind of 0:11:32.440 --> 0:11:35.480 you know, like police examiner, like crime scene investigat or 0:11:35.520 --> 0:11:38.640 something like that. We had that online within like the day, 0:11:38.640 --> 0:11:41.840 if if not like hours, you know, And then like 0:11:41.880 --> 0:11:45.160 you said in the in this recent instances, the only 0:11:45.200 --> 0:11:47.720 time we see a crime scene is if the public 0:11:47.800 --> 0:11:52.000 posts it. We don't see anything like extra like there's 0:11:52.040 --> 0:11:55.959 no police like statements or posts about it. It's all 0:11:56.040 --> 0:12:00.280 very like we're just investigating, like we're investigating. Usually they 0:12:00.320 --> 0:12:04.400 say there's no criminal like element or whatever, and that's it, 0:12:04.480 --> 0:12:07.280 and then like like finding updates has been hell, I 0:12:07.280 --> 0:12:10.560 can't find anything. The only thing that's like posted, like 0:12:10.760 --> 0:12:12.800 besides the like breaking news story or like, oh, this 0:12:12.840 --> 0:12:16.120 person died, it's always like, oh, Russian oligarchs are dying 0:12:16.200 --> 0:12:19.200 and here's a list of them. Were just like regurgitating 0:12:19.240 --> 0:12:22.480 the information we already have. Like there's barely any updates, 0:12:22.559 --> 0:12:26.480 barely anything kind of being followed up on. Can't find 0:12:26.480 --> 0:12:30.400 any like maybe like police or like like kind of 0:12:30.400 --> 0:12:35.600 like government like statements or reports. Nothing comes up in 0:12:35.640 --> 0:12:38.680 a sense, maybe they just don't want it to come up, right, 0:12:39.360 --> 0:12:41.319 let's kind of like it happened, let's let's forget about it. 0:12:41.360 --> 0:12:43.040 Let's not bring attention to it. We don't want want 0:12:43.080 --> 0:12:47.520 people asking questions. Yeah, I think it's just like again, 0:12:47.600 --> 0:12:51.080 I don't think you're being crazy. It's it's pretty obvious 0:12:51.080 --> 0:12:54.120 that the information is very limited. I mean Russia does 0:12:54.160 --> 0:12:56.880 this with other avenues, you know, with the war. If 0:12:56.880 --> 0:13:00.640 you're talking about how the army is struggling, or if 0:13:00.640 --> 0:13:03.480 the government's not doing enough for the military or whatever, 0:13:03.600 --> 0:13:05.920 like that's a big no no. So why wouldn't the 0:13:05.960 --> 0:13:10.840 same apply to you know, potentially government sponsored or you know, 0:13:11.720 --> 0:13:14.520 ordered murders and stuff like they definitely would have want that. 0:13:14.920 --> 0:13:16.400 It's like, why would you want to write you don't 0:13:16.400 --> 0:13:18.360 want to kind of like people know if that's enough 0:13:18.360 --> 0:13:19.600 for them to know, you don't need to have all 0:13:19.600 --> 0:13:22.040 the details of who, how and all that. 0:13:23.679 --> 0:13:26.880 I don't know how much luck you've had in Russian, 0:13:26.880 --> 0:13:28.079 and I know you say you're not fine a lot, 0:13:28.120 --> 0:13:32.360 but even updates from series one I in English, I 0:13:32.400 --> 0:13:35.319 have not found anything. I even tried to reach out 0:13:35.360 --> 0:13:38.400 again to Vasily Melnikov's son, if you remember, he was 0:13:39.000 --> 0:13:42.079 kind of shouting off online saying like my dad didn't 0:13:42.120 --> 0:13:45.120 kill himself. I'm pretty sure the state did this. And 0:13:45.720 --> 0:13:47.720 before I reached out to him, like I found him 0:13:47.800 --> 0:13:52.360 via LinkedIn and then via Facebook. Nothing, just just absolutely zero. 0:13:52.640 --> 0:13:57.080 He's gone completely silent. What about Russian? In Russian, if 0:13:57.080 --> 0:13:59.160 you found like anything from any of the guys from 0:13:59.240 --> 0:14:00.640 season one. 0:14:00.440 --> 0:14:03.920 Nope, again, so pretty much just like here's what happened, 0:14:04.080 --> 0:14:06.559 the death happened, and that's it, and just radio silence 0:14:06.640 --> 0:14:10.240 after that. After trying for quite a few days to 0:14:10.320 --> 0:14:13.960 just find anything. I thought, like, you know, well, Russia, 0:14:14.120 --> 0:14:16.520 like okay, let's say they're suppressing it, right, Like, but 0:14:16.559 --> 0:14:19.680 what about the Western cases? I looked into those, so 0:14:19.680 --> 0:14:23.040 like there was like the Protestenia what was like triple 0:14:23.320 --> 0:14:27.720 homicide suicide where he killed his wife and daughter in Spain. 0:14:27.960 --> 0:14:30.560 Then there was Dan Rapaport who fell out of his 0:14:30.600 --> 0:14:36.239 apartment in Washington, d C. Who else is Zeleno Zeleanov? 0:14:36.360 --> 0:14:39.480 He died in France where he like tripped over his 0:14:39.600 --> 0:14:41.480 railing and like hit his head on the car or whatever. 0:14:42.840 --> 0:14:45.640 No updates pretty much for Rapaport. I found that, like 0:14:45.680 --> 0:14:50.200 his investigation was, it's basically so like it's open, but 0:14:50.240 --> 0:14:53.720 they're not investigating it unless something new comes up. So 0:14:53.760 --> 0:14:55.960 they can't close it officially because they don't have a 0:14:56.000 --> 0:14:59.160 specific manner of death. So at this time it's like 0:14:59.320 --> 0:15:03.840 undetermined and the death is listed as sudden or unexplained. 0:15:04.880 --> 0:15:07.720 And the report from the chief Medical Examiner, so this 0:15:07.840 --> 0:15:10.000 was in November, a few months after his death in 0:15:10.440 --> 0:15:15.040 August twenty twenty two. I believe it says multiple blunt 0:15:15.080 --> 0:15:18.200 force injuries due to a fall from height, Like that's it, 0:15:18.280 --> 0:15:19.960 like he fell out of his apartment. That's it. They 0:15:20.720 --> 0:15:24.080 and they have this like conclusion, but they also don't 0:15:24.120 --> 0:15:27.960 have a definitive answer. So because of that, it's kind 0:15:27.960 --> 0:15:30.400 of like a limbo. Apparently the case is open, but 0:15:30.440 --> 0:15:33.720 it's not being investigated, so they also don't have like 0:15:33.760 --> 0:15:36.040 so it's not closed, so you can't access the details 0:15:36.040 --> 0:15:39.640 of the investigation because it's technically ongoing. So it's kind 0:15:39.640 --> 0:15:41.600 of stuck in this limbo where nobody can access it, 0:15:42.000 --> 0:15:44.680 but nobody's investigating it, so which is kind of weird. 0:15:45.760 --> 0:15:48.360 I could also find an update that his wife was 0:15:48.400 --> 0:15:51.080 allegedly looking to do like a because you say, like 0:15:51.120 --> 0:15:54.560 a personal investigation. She ordered his blood to be tested 0:15:54.600 --> 0:15:57.360 for like texacology report to kind of I guess see 0:15:57.400 --> 0:16:00.480 maybe he was at very at least maybe he was drunk, 0:16:00.600 --> 0:16:04.000 or if he has something in a system. But there 0:16:04.040 --> 0:16:05.760 was no updates since it was just like a mention 0:16:05.880 --> 0:16:08.040 that she wanted to do that, and she I think 0:16:08.040 --> 0:16:10.520 it was like immediately after his death she was very 0:16:11.400 --> 0:16:13.920 very certain that there's no way that it was a suicide. 0:16:14.640 --> 0:16:17.440 And then but that was really the only case where 0:16:17.440 --> 0:16:19.600 I could find updates even in the West. There was 0:16:19.600 --> 0:16:23.040 another one in UK. Was it Michael Watford. I think 0:16:23.080 --> 0:16:27.960 his name is same thing. No updates. A lot of these, interestingly, 0:16:28.040 --> 0:16:32.040 are ruled like suicides and they're closed, so there is 0:16:32.080 --> 0:16:34.480 no way of investigating it further, right, because they're kind 0:16:34.520 --> 0:16:37.280 of they kind of kind of like a close and shutcase, 0:16:38.080 --> 0:16:41.560 so there's no really like like they're not intending to 0:16:41.600 --> 0:16:43.160 follow up on it at least seems like they just 0:16:43.240 --> 0:16:45.760 rule it a suicide and the case is closed. 0:16:46.920 --> 0:16:49.320 How I'm stronger the press over there right now, it's 0:16:49.320 --> 0:16:52.680 gotten worse, I reckon, like, I don't think there's any 0:16:52.800 --> 0:16:55.080 real room for independent media out there. Is that, and 0:16:55.120 --> 0:16:59.200 even when there is, they still know, like we can 0:16:59.240 --> 0:17:02.040 get this close to the edge, but we can't go 0:17:02.080 --> 0:17:05.760 over it. It's still kind of self censorship. Just in case. 0:17:05.800 --> 0:17:08.440 You know, it's not even just the media. I mean, 0:17:08.680 --> 0:17:12.920 I think yesterday on Twitter or an X, people were 0:17:12.920 --> 0:17:16.760 posting photos of a new Russian history book where they're 0:17:16.800 --> 0:17:20.960 talking about the Special Military Operation, how it started because 0:17:21.040 --> 0:17:24.359 NATO has biolabs in Ukraine, right, all this kind of 0:17:24.400 --> 0:17:27.119 like propaganda that they've used to justify it. I mean, 0:17:27.160 --> 0:17:30.720 if it's coming into history books, right, if they're willing 0:17:30.760 --> 0:17:34.760 to kind of spread that lie in their official like 0:17:35.040 --> 0:17:36.720 I think it was a Grade eleven or something. History 0:17:36.720 --> 0:17:39.760 books and the media is known to be on the 0:17:40.040 --> 0:17:43.720 very strict tight control. The narrative is typically very like 0:17:44.400 --> 0:17:48.040 manufactured and decided on by the state, Like I don't 0:17:48.040 --> 0:17:52.320 see why they wouldn't also control this narrative, right, And again, 0:17:52.560 --> 0:17:54.840 it's not even controlling it. There's just no information. It's 0:17:54.840 --> 0:17:57.040 not like it's not like there's a wealth of information 0:17:57.160 --> 0:17:59.199 that is out there and they're trying to suppress it, 0:17:59.240 --> 0:18:01.879 like itses doesn't come to begin with, Like I'm finding 0:18:01.920 --> 0:18:03.960 it really hard to find stuff for the new cases 0:18:04.840 --> 0:18:07.320 and basically no updates on old cases. 0:18:07.800 --> 0:18:11.560 Yeah, I've found as well people are a lot less 0:18:11.720 --> 0:18:16.000 interested in talking about it. So I've been trying, you know, 0:18:16.000 --> 0:18:17.920 I've been reaching out to people like hey, can I 0:18:18.320 --> 0:18:20.840 get like an opinion on this or someone from an 0:18:20.840 --> 0:18:23.719 area will say yeah, sure, but I'm not going on 0:18:23.720 --> 0:18:25.920 the record, you know, Like there's just not like even 0:18:26.000 --> 0:18:29.320 people that are not necessarily attached, people that are not 0:18:29.359 --> 0:18:31.840 even in Russia. It's almost like there's this kind of 0:18:32.000 --> 0:18:37.640 understanding now that this shit is happening, and people don't 0:18:37.640 --> 0:18:39.600 want to be involved. I don't know, I feel like 0:18:39.680 --> 0:18:44.640 maybe that might be because it's not just oligarchs now right. Obviously, 0:18:44.680 --> 0:18:47.640 the kind of sad oligarch monika is because a lot 0:18:47.680 --> 0:18:52.760 of oligarchs were falling out of windows and the state 0:18:52.960 --> 0:18:55.119 was saying, oh, they were just depressed, or the police 0:18:55.119 --> 0:18:57.880 were saying they would depressed. Oh yeah, hah, sad oligarch. 0:18:57.920 --> 0:18:59.920 But of course there's a lot of people that are 0:19:00.480 --> 0:19:03.000 maybe not necessarily in the bracket of oligach, but they 0:19:03.000 --> 0:19:07.560 are definitely political, their power brokers, they're attached to the state. 0:19:08.000 --> 0:19:10.119 It feels as if they're going to go for anybody. 0:19:10.160 --> 0:19:10.360 Now. 0:19:11.800 --> 0:19:13.880 I don't know. I don't know if it's a thing 0:19:14.160 --> 0:19:17.280 of connecting dots that you see or if it's actually 0:19:17.280 --> 0:19:20.960 happening that way. But the recent one, for example, the 0:19:21.359 --> 0:19:25.639 old fella that died from the mushroom poisoning attached to 0:19:25.720 --> 0:19:29.119 Ross Cosmos. There seems to be a lot of tension 0:19:29.160 --> 0:19:31.879 around that example. We did the last episode. Okay, it 0:19:31.920 --> 0:19:35.040 wasn't Ross Cosmos but a parent company. There was also 0:19:35.280 --> 0:19:38.280 a hell of a lot of corruption going on, several 0:19:38.320 --> 0:19:43.159 people there dying arrested. No one's saying anything. I feel like, 0:19:44.080 --> 0:19:46.639 if my theory is true, I feel like the state 0:19:46.800 --> 0:19:52.320 is using this kind of deep state possibly FSB attacks 0:19:52.320 --> 0:19:54.480 on their critics or their people next to them that 0:19:54.520 --> 0:19:59.960 aren't behaving. Okay, now it's time for a quick ad break. 0:20:05.119 --> 0:20:11.199 Well enough for that, Now back to the shore. I 0:20:11.240 --> 0:20:13.960 feel like it's extending further, Like the to pus, his 0:20:14.080 --> 0:20:19.320 legs are gone from oil and weapons to other industries 0:20:19.320 --> 0:20:21.160 that the state controls. Does that make sense? 0:20:21.440 --> 0:20:24.040 Yeah? And I think I think it'd be several things. Like, 0:20:24.080 --> 0:20:26.639 first of all, you know, when we initially started that 0:20:26.760 --> 0:20:30.199 oligarch made sense because what brought attention was oligarchs and 0:20:30.200 --> 0:20:33.720 people who were more so like easier defined as oligarchs, right, 0:20:34.000 --> 0:20:36.439 And that was kind of the start of like what 0:20:36.560 --> 0:20:39.159 brought our attention to it to begin with. And they 0:20:39.160 --> 0:20:41.480 were like I think I would say like ninety percent 0:20:41.480 --> 0:20:45.359 of them were definitely like just playing all oligarchs. And 0:20:45.640 --> 0:20:47.960 it's not to say that maybe there were like suspicious 0:20:48.000 --> 0:20:50.600 that's happening before that, right, but they kind of brought 0:20:50.600 --> 0:20:52.919 that spotlight onto it the war in Ukraine, and then 0:20:53.000 --> 0:20:56.639 like all of these deaths happening suddenly. I'm sure like 0:20:56.880 --> 0:20:59.399 there were deaths of like minor or smaller kind of 0:20:59.440 --> 0:21:02.160 like maybe see eos or kind of these like scientists 0:21:02.200 --> 0:21:05.719 that happened, but maybe nobody noticed, right, and then this 0:21:05.760 --> 0:21:09.040 attention was brought onto it. Even when I'm working on 0:21:09.240 --> 0:21:11.920 these different cases, I'm like, well, does this person count 0:21:11.960 --> 0:21:14.040 is an oligarch? Right? Like this does he even count? 0:21:14.280 --> 0:21:16.880 Should he be included? I think a lot of times 0:21:16.920 --> 0:21:19.440 it's like if they're tied to the state, and if 0:21:19.440 --> 0:21:23.000 their deaths are really sus suspicious, it's like, I think 0:21:23.320 --> 0:21:25.960 it's worth looking into it. I think part of it 0:21:25.960 --> 0:21:29.040 could be that, like before the war in Ukraine, there 0:21:29.119 --> 0:21:31.760 was like an illusion of what a great state Russia is, 0:21:31.800 --> 0:21:36.800 you know, second and greatest military like economic powerhouse by 0:21:36.920 --> 0:21:39.080 its own kind of like that's what it saw itself. 0:21:39.119 --> 0:21:40.679 I think most people didn't see it that way, but 0:21:41.400 --> 0:21:43.760 Russia wanted to be or at least pretend to be right. 0:21:43.800 --> 0:21:46.840 And then I think the failed invasion of Ukraine now 0:21:46.880 --> 0:21:49.239 reaching it, like the three Day operation going into like 0:21:49.320 --> 0:21:52.400 the third fourth year, I think it kind of shattered 0:21:52.400 --> 0:21:55.359 that illusion for the world. But I also think I 0:21:55.400 --> 0:21:58.840 think maybe Putin thought that there really were you know, 0:21:58.960 --> 0:22:01.480