1 00:00:01,240 --> 00:00:06,000 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Sound Off, the insiders, the influencers, the insiders. We 2 00:00:06,200 --> 00:00:10,119 Speaker 1: continue to open this economy slowly, but it's coming back. 3 00:00:10,200 --> 00:00:11,520 Speaker 1: I want to know what the theme is going to 4 00:00:11,600 --> 00:00:14,280 Speaker 1: be for Republicans. I can't imagine a more important person 5 00:00:14,320 --> 00:00:18,200 Speaker 1: in Washington right now than Senator Joe Manchick Sloomberg On 6 00:00:18,360 --> 00:00:23,480 Speaker 1: with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. Thanks for being with us. 7 00:00:23,680 --> 00:00:27,280 Speaker 1: Slide from Washington. President Biden is back in the White 8 00:00:27,280 --> 00:00:32,200 Speaker 1: House today, just signed into law making Juneteenth the federal holiday, 9 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:35,479 Speaker 1: part of a shift in focus back to domestic issues 10 00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:38,839 Speaker 1: that include the Affordable Care Acts after the U. S. 11 00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:42,159 Speaker 1: Supreme Court issued a ruling today left the law intact, 12 00:00:42,159 --> 00:00:44,800 Speaker 1: and coming up, we're gonna talk about it with Kyle Condick, 13 00:00:44,840 --> 00:00:48,880 Speaker 1: managing editor of Sabodeau's Crystal Ball at the University of 14 00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:52,000 Speaker 1: Virginia Center for Politics. Will also hear from Bloomberg Politics 15 00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:56,080 Speaker 1: contributor Rick Davis, as well Laura Fink, democratic strategist and 16 00:00:56,120 --> 00:01:00,000 Speaker 1: founder and CEO of Rebel Communications. And welcome to bloom 17 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:02,560 Speaker 1: Burg Sound On as we turn our focus today to 18 00:01:02,640 --> 00:01:07,039 Speaker 1: domestic politics. After following President Biden across half of Europe 19 00:01:07,120 --> 00:01:10,240 Speaker 1: the past week and to think we are still talking 20 00:01:10,280 --> 00:01:14,440 Speaker 1: about Obamacare. That's because today the U. S. Supreme Court 21 00:01:14,600 --> 00:01:18,720 Speaker 1: upheld the Affordable Care Act, rejecting a challenge by Republican 22 00:01:18,760 --> 00:01:22,680 Speaker 1: controlled states and the former Trump administration. The court essentially 23 00:01:22,760 --> 00:01:25,920 Speaker 1: ruled that they did not have the right to sue. Now, 24 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:28,800 Speaker 1: the White House is celebrating this ruling as a chance, 25 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:31,800 Speaker 1: they say to expand the law. As President Biden promised 26 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:35,319 Speaker 1: on what was the eleventh anniversary of Obamacare and held 27 00:01:35,319 --> 00:01:37,479 Speaker 1: a speech that day in March, We're going to keep 28 00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:41,320 Speaker 1: building until every American has that peace of mind and 29 00:01:41,440 --> 00:01:44,160 Speaker 1: to show that our government can fulfill its most essential 30 00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:49,000 Speaker 1: purpose to care for and protect the American people. In 31 00:01:49,120 --> 00:01:52,760 Speaker 1: the story today from Bloomberg, Government says this ruling just 32 00:01:52,880 --> 00:01:55,960 Speaker 1: reset the talking points for both parties, and we're joined 33 00:01:56,080 --> 00:01:58,520 Speaker 1: to talk about it. By Kyle Condick is the managing 34 00:01:58,600 --> 00:02:01,960 Speaker 1: editor of Sabbath was Crystal Ball at the University of 35 00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:06,120 Speaker 1: Virginia's Center for Politics. Kyle, Welcome to Bloomberg Radio. Thanks 36 00:02:06,120 --> 00:02:08,360 Speaker 1: for having me so challenges to the A c A 37 00:02:08,720 --> 00:02:13,080 Speaker 1: helped Democrats win control of both chambers in recent elections. 38 00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:17,360 Speaker 1: How about now, Uh, Well, look, I mean I don't 39 00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:19,519 Speaker 1: think that there were many people on either side that 40 00:02:19,639 --> 00:02:22,680 Speaker 1: they really thought that this particular court case was gonna 41 00:02:22,680 --> 00:02:25,520 Speaker 1: be dismantle the Affordable Care Act. I think there may 42 00:02:25,560 --> 00:02:27,040 Speaker 1: have been a little bit more drama with some of 43 00:02:27,040 --> 00:02:29,440 Speaker 1: the previous rulings, but you know, they're over the course 44 00:02:29,480 --> 00:02:33,000 Speaker 1: of the Obama presidency. The Republicans really think made made 45 00:02:33,000 --> 00:02:35,880 Speaker 1: great political hay over the Affordable Care Act. I think 46 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:40,400 Speaker 1: it was a key part of their victories in but 47 00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:42,960 Speaker 1: then once they got into power in you know, after 48 00:02:42,960 --> 00:02:47,320 Speaker 1: the election, they uh, you know, were unable to actually 49 00:02:47,639 --> 00:02:51,240 Speaker 1: repeal or you know, to really dramatically change the Affordable 50 00:02:51,240 --> 00:02:53,840 Speaker 1: Care Act. And over time, the Affordable Care Act I 51 00:02:53,840 --> 00:02:56,560 Speaker 1: wouldn't say that it's immensely popular, but it became more 52 00:02:56,560 --> 00:03:00,679 Speaker 1: popular once the Republicans took over the government in and 53 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:02,919 Speaker 1: uh and and then failed to basically be able to 54 00:03:02,919 --> 00:03:05,040 Speaker 1: get rid of it. And so I think that this, uh, 55 00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:07,520 Speaker 1: I don't necessarily know this this closes the books on 56 00:03:07,600 --> 00:03:10,079 Speaker 1: legal challenges to the Affordable Care Act, because there could 57 00:03:10,120 --> 00:03:12,640 Speaker 1: always be the ones that have urged. But um, you know, 58 00:03:12,680 --> 00:03:15,000 Speaker 1: it's been more than a decade Republicans are trying to 59 00:03:15,040 --> 00:03:16,800 Speaker 1: dismantle this thing, and they've just not been able to. 60 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:19,280 Speaker 1: I guess that's my my question. That's where I'm going here, 61 00:03:19,280 --> 00:03:24,160 Speaker 1: because while there was indeed much more drama surrounding prior rulings, 62 00:03:24,720 --> 00:03:27,560 Speaker 1: the White House and Democrats are really seizing on this. 63 00:03:27,720 --> 00:03:30,680 Speaker 1: Like you said, this sort of close this chapter, although 64 00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:33,080 Speaker 1: it's been about eleven chapters at this point. A statement 65 00:03:33,080 --> 00:03:36,280 Speaker 1: from the White House after the ruling today says, after 66 00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:39,040 Speaker 1: more than a decade of attacks on the Affordable Care 67 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:41,600 Speaker 1: Act through Congress in the courts, it's time to move 68 00:03:41,640 --> 00:03:45,040 Speaker 1: forward and keep building on this landmark law. That that's 69 00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:48,080 Speaker 1: the the take from Joe Biden, but sent a majority 70 00:03:48,160 --> 00:03:50,440 Speaker 1: leader Chuck Schumer said it in his own way, The 71 00:03:50,560 --> 00:03:55,000 Speaker 1: a c A Is here to stay, and now we're 72 00:03:55,000 --> 00:03:58,400 Speaker 1: going to try to make it bigger and better established 73 00:03:58,440 --> 00:04:01,600 Speaker 1: once in for all, affordable full healthcare as a basic 74 00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:05,880 Speaker 1: right of every American citizen. So what are we talking 75 00:04:05,920 --> 00:04:09,040 Speaker 1: about here? We saw an expansion, if you can call 76 00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:11,360 Speaker 1: it that, an expansion of tax subsidies under the American 77 00:04:11,440 --> 00:04:14,440 Speaker 1: Rescue Plan brought about by COVID. But we know the 78 00:04:14,440 --> 00:04:16,760 Speaker 1: President does not support Medicare for all. He said that 79 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:19,480 Speaker 1: on the campaign trail, right, how would Democrats make this bigger? 80 00:04:20,600 --> 00:04:23,000 Speaker 1: I mean there's not you know, as you mentioned that, 81 00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:26,279 Speaker 1: you know, Joe Biden kind of won the Democratic presidential 82 00:04:26,279 --> 00:04:29,080 Speaker 1: primary and in some ways by not going as far 83 00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:32,040 Speaker 1: to the left as some of his rivals did, and 84 00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:34,279 Speaker 1: you know, not supporting Medicare for all is a great 85 00:04:34,320 --> 00:04:38,200 Speaker 1: example of that. UM. And also, you know, we there's 86 00:04:38,240 --> 00:04:40,120 Speaker 1: there's a whole there, a whole lot of different things 87 00:04:40,120 --> 00:04:42,600 Speaker 1: that Democrats are trying to do with their slim majorities 88 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:45,719 Speaker 1: in Washington, and they're you know, kind of shaky control 89 00:04:45,800 --> 00:04:48,680 Speaker 1: of both Congress and White House. They're trying to do 90 00:04:48,800 --> 00:04:52,120 Speaker 1: things on changing election laws. They're trying to do something 91 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:54,480 Speaker 1: on infrastructure that may or may not get by partisan 92 00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:56,920 Speaker 1: buy in. Um. There are other you know things that 93 00:04:56,960 --> 00:04:59,000 Speaker 1: they're trying to do. I don't think that healthcare though, 94 00:04:59,080 --> 00:05:03,000 Speaker 1: is necessarily UM, you know, a big issue that is 95 00:05:03,080 --> 00:05:05,200 Speaker 1: kind of right in front of Congress right now. You know, 96 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:08,120 Speaker 1: it's it was a different story. And you say seventeen 97 00:05:08,200 --> 00:05:11,320 Speaker 1: when kind of the major focus of of the early 98 00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:14,320 Speaker 1: days of the Republican majority was doing something about the 99 00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:16,680 Speaker 1: Affordable Care Act. You know this time, Yeah, this this 100 00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:18,520 Speaker 1: court ruling has put the a c A and the 101 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:21,960 Speaker 1: news the news today. Um, But it's not like there's 102 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:24,760 Speaker 1: some huge fight going on in Washington right now, growing 103 00:05:24,760 --> 00:05:27,000 Speaker 1: in Congress right now to do something about the a 104 00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:28,840 Speaker 1: c A. And so when when Democrats talk about they 105 00:05:28,880 --> 00:05:31,680 Speaker 1: want to do more, I don't necessarily know specifically what 106 00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:34,960 Speaker 1: that would be, and um, whether they would they would 107 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:36,719 Speaker 1: have the votes to even to even do whatever they 108 00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:39,560 Speaker 1: might want to do. Well, nothing works better in politics 109 00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:41,400 Speaker 1: than being an underdog. Right if you look like you're 110 00:05:41,400 --> 00:05:44,279 Speaker 1: struggling to make something better? Does that help? Does that 111 00:05:44,320 --> 00:05:47,839 Speaker 1: help when we head for the mid terms? Um, you know, 112 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:52,160 Speaker 1: I don't I don't necessarily think that the a c 113 00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:56,360 Speaker 1: A is going to be a huge issue in two Um. Also, 114 00:05:56,440 --> 00:05:58,640 Speaker 1: even though we're you know, we're hopefully coming out of 115 00:05:58,640 --> 00:06:01,800 Speaker 1: this pandemic. Um. You know, obviously kind of public health 116 00:06:01,920 --> 00:06:04,200 Speaker 1: is is sort of it's sort of an issue. But um, 117 00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:07,680 Speaker 1: maybe the coronavirus is not necessarily a focus in the 118 00:06:07,720 --> 00:06:10,200 Speaker 1: mid terms because again, we might be beyond it, and 119 00:06:10,320 --> 00:06:13,880 Speaker 1: coronavirus isn't really the same as, you know, as a 120 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:16,840 Speaker 1: health assurance coverage, which is what the the A c 121 00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:19,360 Speaker 1: A is all about. And you know, I think if 122 00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:22,960 Speaker 1: you look at some of the Democrats policy priorities, um, 123 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:25,800 Speaker 1: you know, and maybe that the initial uh you know, 124 00:06:25,839 --> 00:06:29,159 Speaker 1: stimulus bill essentially that that the Democrats passed right after 125 00:06:29,200 --> 00:06:32,160 Speaker 1: they took power to uh, you know, to address to 126 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:34,960 Speaker 1: progress coronavirus and pump a bunch of money into the economy, 127 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:36,960 Speaker 1: which was a signature achievement, I think if you're on 128 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:40,320 Speaker 1: the left, Um, but they did that, and then I 129 00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:43,200 Speaker 1: think they're sort of struggling to do more, um, you know, 130 00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:46,159 Speaker 1: in in that that is the infrastructure and other things, 131 00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:48,200 Speaker 1: and uh, you know, I just don't even know if 132 00:06:48,200 --> 00:06:51,000 Speaker 1: they would have the votes to um to do anything. 133 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:52,800 Speaker 1: You know, certainly they don't have dinner votes for something 134 00:06:52,839 --> 00:06:54,360 Speaker 1: like Medicare for all. And I mean the president that 135 00:06:54,440 --> 00:07:00,240 Speaker 1: was supported anyway, amazing eleven years later, how device if 136 00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:04,720 Speaker 1: this still is The Kaiser Family Foundation found in its 137 00:07:04,880 --> 00:07:07,680 Speaker 1: most recent survey more than a decade later, again that 138 00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:13,680 Speaker 1: Democrats support the a c A, while sevent of Republicans 139 00:07:13,720 --> 00:07:18,920 Speaker 1: view it unfavorably. There's still very little agreement on this. Yeah, absolutely. Now, 140 00:07:18,960 --> 00:07:22,720 Speaker 1: I will say that over time, approval of the A 141 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:25,000 Speaker 1: c A has gotten better. You know, part of that 142 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:27,880 Speaker 1: was um and I think maybe we've got we have 143 00:07:27,920 --> 00:07:30,440 Speaker 1: to see what would maybe maybe the most recent data 144 00:07:30,440 --> 00:07:33,000 Speaker 1: would say not that by this president. But sometimes what 145 00:07:33,080 --> 00:07:36,560 Speaker 1: happens is that something becomes unpopular, you know, when it's 146 00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:39,440 Speaker 1: passed and you know, liberal policy idea like the Affordable 147 00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:42,480 Speaker 1: Care Act um is unpopular when there's a liberal government 148 00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:45,000 Speaker 1: in place, which was the case of Obama's president, and 149 00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:47,480 Speaker 1: then Donald Trump takes over, you've got a conservative government, 150 00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:49,720 Speaker 1: and you see this with all sorts of different kinds 151 00:07:49,760 --> 00:07:52,920 Speaker 1: of matters of public opinion, that public starts to sort 152 00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:56,680 Speaker 1: of express more liberal positions because there's a conservative government. 153 00:07:57,240 --> 00:07:59,200 Speaker 1: And that you sort of saw that with the proval 154 00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:01,560 Speaker 1: the Affordable Care that it got a little bit better 155 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:04,480 Speaker 1: when Trump was in the White House. Uh. You know, 156 00:08:04,560 --> 00:08:07,200 Speaker 1: I'm curious to see how how healthcare is viewed in 157 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:11,840 Speaker 1: the mid term or through the mid term lends. It's 158 00:08:11,920 --> 00:08:15,920 Speaker 1: usually an issue that Democrats have kind of a party 159 00:08:15,920 --> 00:08:18,280 Speaker 1: advantage on. You know, there's certain things that you're probably 160 00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:21,200 Speaker 1: could usually have an advantage of taxes, Democrats often have 161 00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:24,240 Speaker 1: it on healthcare, etcetera. Uh, you know, how how how 162 00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:26,920 Speaker 1: are people going to view that in and are they 163 00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:30,000 Speaker 1: actually going to view healthcare as a super pressing issue 164 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:33,160 Speaker 1: next year? It's quite possible that they won't. Kyle Conduct, 165 00:08:33,160 --> 00:08:36,040 Speaker 1: managing editor of Savodaus Crystal Ball at the University of 166 00:08:36,120 --> 00:08:38,840 Speaker 1: Virginia's Center for Politics, We thank you for being with us. 167 00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:41,920 Speaker 1: I want to bring in Bloomberg Politics. Contribute to Rick Davis, 168 00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:44,520 Speaker 1: who was in the room, so to speak, for the 169 00:08:44,559 --> 00:08:48,359 Speaker 1: beginning of this whole case. Hey, Rick, you were advising 170 00:08:48,360 --> 00:08:51,440 Speaker 1: the late Senator John McCain at the time. That same 171 00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:54,920 Speaker 1: week he gave the thumbs down to the bill. Yeah, 172 00:08:55,040 --> 00:08:59,439 Speaker 1: July two thousand seventeen, one thirty in the morning, we 173 00:08:59,679 --> 00:09:05,160 Speaker 1: finally voted on the skinny reform that Mitch McConnell put 174 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:07,400 Speaker 1: on the floor only a few hours earlier. No one 175 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:10,680 Speaker 1: had ever seen the bill. One of John's complaints. Uh, 176 00:09:10,720 --> 00:09:15,040 Speaker 1: he had just gotten back from Arizona after after having 177 00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:18,960 Speaker 1: brain surgery and um and gave a speech to the 178 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:22,240 Speaker 1: floor of the Senate to say, we really ought to 179 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:24,120 Speaker 1: be working together. We ought to be trying to do 180 00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:27,640 Speaker 1: big reforms like healthcare, you know, in a bipartisan fashion, 181 00:09:27,679 --> 00:09:29,400 Speaker 1: and we should be using the rules of the Senate 182 00:09:29,960 --> 00:09:32,880 Speaker 1: that were set up to have clear and open debate 183 00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:36,400 Speaker 1: on these things, called regular order. And He's like, if 184 00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:39,760 Speaker 1: we have regular order, all support the process. Well, regular 185 00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:42,319 Speaker 1: order turned into a ten pm bill that no one 186 00:09:42,320 --> 00:09:45,400 Speaker 1: had ever seen before, hitting their desks and told come 187 00:09:45,400 --> 00:09:48,560 Speaker 1: and vote on it at midnight, and John spoiled the party. 188 00:09:48,720 --> 00:09:52,080 Speaker 1: He was pretty intent on saying that he'd set this 189 00:09:52,160 --> 00:09:54,400 Speaker 1: up a week earlier, said that he wasn't gonna vote 190 00:09:54,400 --> 00:09:57,320 Speaker 1: for reform if they hadn't taken it through regular order, 191 00:09:57,360 --> 00:10:00,160 Speaker 1: and there was no way he was going to to 192 00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:04,079 Speaker 1: change his mind. But that didn't stop the Vice President 193 00:10:04,080 --> 00:10:06,440 Speaker 1: from pulling him off the floor with a couple of 194 00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:10,040 Speaker 1: other senators who were voting against it, and gaving his 195 00:10:10,160 --> 00:10:14,319 Speaker 1: last minute pep talk, which didn't have much impact the vote. 196 00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:18,640 Speaker 1: Historic as it was, was the beginning of this. Uh, 197 00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:22,920 Speaker 1: this whole exercise in suing over the individual mandate pretty 198 00:10:22,920 --> 00:10:25,839 Speaker 1: remarkable when you look back at how long this has been. 199 00:10:25,840 --> 00:10:30,400 Speaker 1: I mean, yes, eleven years uncounted challenges, but this particular 200 00:10:30,440 --> 00:10:33,320 Speaker 1: case has gone on for months and months. Do you 201 00:10:33,400 --> 00:10:36,920 Speaker 1: think before we move on to infrastructure and some of 202 00:10:36,920 --> 00:10:39,520 Speaker 1: the other issues pressing on Capitol Hill, Rick, in our 203 00:10:39,840 --> 00:10:45,160 Speaker 1: remaining thirty seconds here is this over? Is Obamacare? Yeah? 204 00:10:45,160 --> 00:10:47,720 Speaker 1: I'm gonna move forward without the legal challenges. Yeah, certainly, 205 00:10:47,720 --> 00:10:50,200 Speaker 1: I think in a political context would always be a 206 00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:54,000 Speaker 1: bald a bat around for Republicans and a story to 207 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:57,200 Speaker 1: tell for Democrats. Right, I mean, as uh as Kyle 208 00:10:57,200 --> 00:10:59,959 Speaker 1: pointed out, I mean there's pretty big split amongst part 209 00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:06,240 Speaker 1: so that anytime sentence. This is Bloomberg Sound On with 210 00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:12,320 Speaker 1: Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. Welcome to Bloomberg Sound On. 211 00:11:12,440 --> 00:11:15,160 Speaker 1: Now that we've made our way through the G seven, 212 00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:18,360 Speaker 1: the NATO summit, the meeting with Putin? Can you believe 213 00:11:18,520 --> 00:11:22,120 Speaker 1: that was all in the last week, things are now 214 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:24,439 Speaker 1: warming up again on Capitol Hill. The President's back as 215 00:11:24,440 --> 00:11:29,520 Speaker 1: we mentioned, and the word bipartisan was actually set out 216 00:11:29,559 --> 00:11:33,960 Speaker 1: loud this week as the House voted overwhelmingly, as you 217 00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:38,520 Speaker 1: just heard from Charlie Pellett four fifteen to fourteen to 218 00:11:38,640 --> 00:11:41,880 Speaker 1: make Juneteenth the federal holiday. Moved through the Senate. The 219 00:11:41,920 --> 00:11:44,560 Speaker 1: President just signed it. And we're joined by Bloomberg Politics 220 00:11:44,559 --> 00:11:48,559 Speaker 1: contributor Rick Davis, as well as Laura Faink, Democratic strategists 221 00:11:48,679 --> 00:11:53,040 Speaker 1: and founder and CEO of Rebel Communications. Laura's great to 222 00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:55,200 Speaker 1: have you on the program. Who says we can't agree 223 00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:59,480 Speaker 1: on things that's right? That's right? Is there a lesson 224 00:11:59,559 --> 00:12:04,120 Speaker 1: to be earned from this June teenth law being signed 225 00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:06,280 Speaker 1: or did you see this happening? This was something that 226 00:12:06,400 --> 00:12:10,360 Speaker 1: lawmakers felt they had to do. Well, I I think 227 00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:12,679 Speaker 1: you've got to be against slavery and you've got to 228 00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:15,600 Speaker 1: be for uh for the elimination of it. So I 229 00:12:15,640 --> 00:12:18,520 Speaker 1: think this is a rare point of agreement, but something 230 00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:21,920 Speaker 1: that we should celebrate because and I also think, and 231 00:12:21,920 --> 00:12:24,920 Speaker 1: I've i've heard talked to my Republican colleagues and friends, 232 00:12:25,040 --> 00:12:28,200 Speaker 1: and and they also like to remind me that it 233 00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:31,440 Speaker 1: was Republicans who are in more anti slaveries than Democrats. 234 00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:33,360 Speaker 1: So we're playing a little political game even in me 235 00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:37,400 Speaker 1: by partisanship, but also the good with a good results. 236 00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:41,760 Speaker 1: Fourteen voted against it. Rick, how do you explain that 237 00:12:42,679 --> 00:12:46,040 Speaker 1: maybe they just don't like days off? You know, it's 238 00:12:46,080 --> 00:12:49,199 Speaker 1: it's inexplicable, right, I mean, they must come from districts 239 00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:52,720 Speaker 1: where they think somehow they're going to gain some advantage 240 00:12:52,760 --> 00:12:55,400 Speaker 1: for this, But you know, it's the environment we're in. 241 00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:58,000 Speaker 1: I mean, there are a group of people any given day, 242 00:12:58,040 --> 00:13:00,880 Speaker 1: on any given party who just are going to be 243 00:13:01,080 --> 00:13:05,120 Speaker 1: outside the mainstream of of bipartisanship that would exist on 244 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:09,560 Speaker 1: a deal like this. So the days of voting for 245 00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:12,840 Speaker 1: one thing or I think in the in the past. Yeah, well, 246 00:13:12,840 --> 00:13:15,160 Speaker 1: it makes us all asked the same question, can we 247 00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:18,000 Speaker 1: agree on anything else? And now we consider the big 248 00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:23,280 Speaker 1: three infrastructure, voting rights, and police reform. Will start with infrastructure. Here, 249 00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:25,360 Speaker 1: I'd like to get your take on this. So bipartisan 250 00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:27,880 Speaker 1: plan in the Senate that we talked about a week 251 00:13:27,880 --> 00:13:32,720 Speaker 1: ago has doubled its supporting senators eleven Republicans, ten Democrats. 252 00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:35,800 Speaker 1: But listen to Dick Durban, this is just today. The 253 00:13:35,840 --> 00:13:39,480 Speaker 1: Senate majority whip does not seem to have much hope. 254 00:13:39,559 --> 00:13:42,400 Speaker 1: There has to be an assurance from the Democrats who 255 00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:44,640 Speaker 1: are supporting it that they will be on board for 256 00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:48,599 Speaker 1: reconciliation to fill in the gaps and the bipartisan package. 257 00:13:49,280 --> 00:13:53,400 Speaker 1: Laurie sounds like Charlie Brown going to kick the football. Well, 258 00:13:53,559 --> 00:13:56,400 Speaker 1: it sounds like a message to Kristen Cinema and Senator 259 00:13:56,480 --> 00:13:59,320 Speaker 1: Joe Manson, And and you have to have assurances that 260 00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:02,280 Speaker 1: they would have reconciliation for things like child care and 261 00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:05,439 Speaker 1: elder care, climate, infrastructure, and the things that are missing 262 00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:09,320 Speaker 1: from this very skinny bipartisan plan. We don't know that 263 00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:11,040 Speaker 1: there's not a lot of room for error, not a 264 00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:13,880 Speaker 1: lot of room to lose, lose senators like Bernie Panders 265 00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:16,400 Speaker 1: on the left, and so it remains to be seen. 266 00:14:16,760 --> 00:14:19,800 Speaker 1: I like to call infrastructure the buffet of limited options. 267 00:14:19,880 --> 00:14:23,160 Speaker 1: So if you want bipartisanship, UM, that this may be 268 00:14:23,240 --> 00:14:25,280 Speaker 1: the direction you have to go. But if you want 269 00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:29,120 Speaker 1: a full package, including a corporate tax hike UM and 270 00:14:29,280 --> 00:14:31,400 Speaker 1: a number of other things, you might have to go 271 00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:34,320 Speaker 1: the budget recoffiliation. But again we know Joe Manson and 272 00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:37,720 Speaker 1: Kristen Cinema will be calling some shots here. UH, a 273 00:14:37,800 --> 00:14:41,160 Speaker 1: number of options on the table. Republican Senator Jerry Moran 274 00:14:41,840 --> 00:14:45,960 Speaker 1: Kansas is one of those in the bipartisan group. As 275 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:48,680 Speaker 1: I mentioned, twenty one strong now, he says he does 276 00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:52,120 Speaker 1: not want Democrats to go it alone. My hope and 277 00:14:52,120 --> 00:14:53,960 Speaker 1: one of the reasons I'm involved in this effort is 278 00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:56,840 Speaker 1: that I hope that we are able to avoid reconciliation. 279 00:14:56,880 --> 00:15:01,240 Speaker 1: I hope we're able to avoid eliminating the filip UH, 280 00:15:01,280 --> 00:15:03,120 Speaker 1: and I hope that we're going to spend less money 281 00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:06,359 Speaker 1: than what the current proposal is by the Biden administration. 282 00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:09,160 Speaker 1: That's quite a list there, Rick Davis, UH, does he 283 00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:12,160 Speaker 1: need to watch Charlie Brown, hope is not a strategy. 284 00:15:12,440 --> 00:15:14,240 Speaker 1: I mean we tell these guys that all the time, 285 00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:17,880 Speaker 1: but saying I hope. Take it from a consultant. Yeah, No, Look, 286 00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:20,080 Speaker 1: I think I think this is great. I mean, like, 287 00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:23,440 Speaker 1: we're gonna spend a trillion dollars on infrastructure. Since when 288 00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:26,280 Speaker 1: was that a small amount of money? Um? You know, 289 00:15:26,280 --> 00:15:29,200 Speaker 1: we've talked about infrastructure for five years and haven't seen 290 00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:32,920 Speaker 1: a peep of activity. And now we've got Republicans dog 291 00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:35,800 Speaker 1: piling on the rabbit. I mean eleven votes. That's that's 292 00:15:35,840 --> 00:15:40,560 Speaker 1: that's that's a blockbuster amount of Republicans. And and I 293 00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:43,320 Speaker 1: think it's really interesting that the Democratic leadership now are 294 00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:46,240 Speaker 1: basically turning inward into their caucus saying, now, listen, you 295 00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:48,920 Speaker 1: gotta stick with us on some of these other things. 296 00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:51,080 Speaker 1: So I think the trade is done. I think we're 297 00:15:51,080 --> 00:15:54,080 Speaker 1: gonna get infrastructure. And uh. And then the question is, 298 00:15:54,280 --> 00:15:56,400 Speaker 1: you know, do you have votes for reconciliation? But you 299 00:15:56,960 --> 00:15:59,760 Speaker 1: can't get too serious about Lincoln the two declare of 300 00:15:59,800 --> 00:16:02,520 Speaker 1: the three. Take the infrastructure when it's going to buy 301 00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:05,000 Speaker 1: a lot of great votes in two if you're the 302 00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:08,120 Speaker 1: Democratic Party, and uh, and then go haggle out the 303 00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:10,160 Speaker 1: rest of the bills. Laura, what do you think about 304 00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:13,800 Speaker 1: that strategy? Well, I mean, I think you can't eliminate 305 00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:16,360 Speaker 1: climate change from the conversation and the corporate tax y 306 00:16:16,360 --> 00:16:18,360 Speaker 1: at hike. I think those are you know, these are 307 00:16:18,400 --> 00:16:21,400 Speaker 1: concessions that were in the bipartisan deal. Ore are anathema 308 00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:24,160 Speaker 1: to some some some Democrats in fact, and a lot 309 00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:26,880 Speaker 1: of the American people. So we're really you know, we 310 00:16:26,880 --> 00:16:28,680 Speaker 1: we like to watch the play by play on how 311 00:16:28,680 --> 00:16:32,160 Speaker 1: the sofsage gets made. What it will all will include, Um, 312 00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:34,440 Speaker 1: it remains to be seen. But I think, you know, 313 00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:36,880 Speaker 1: Joe mantions under a lot of pressure to get something done, 314 00:16:36,920 --> 00:16:39,280 Speaker 1: and he may not get everything his way. The lessons 315 00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:41,320 Speaker 1: get everything their way. I think we'll see something a 316 00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:44,120 Speaker 1: little bit different than this one trillion. It's it's half 317 00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:48,800 Speaker 1: of the first outset development of Biden's infrastructure package. That's 318 00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:52,080 Speaker 1: a that's a huge concession for a party that has 319 00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:54,280 Speaker 1: the White House and both Houses of Congress. I think 320 00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:56,080 Speaker 1: we'll see some movement before it gets done, but I 321 00:16:56,160 --> 00:16:58,600 Speaker 1: agree it will. Thanks for joining us on this Thursday. 322 00:16:58,760 --> 00:17:00,640 Speaker 1: Are people going back to the offer us? Where you work? 323 00:17:00,640 --> 00:17:03,520 Speaker 1: You stuck in traffic right now? In some places the 324 00:17:03,560 --> 00:17:07,320 Speaker 1: answers no, and the question, of course remains why people 325 00:17:07,320 --> 00:17:10,359 Speaker 1: have been arguing about this, whether it has to do 326 00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:15,160 Speaker 1: with unemployment benefits, COVID vaccines, and the CEO of Bank 327 00:17:15,160 --> 00:17:18,440 Speaker 1: of America shed some light on this today as corporations 328 00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:24,280 Speaker 1: begin taking control of this idea. In this case, Brian 329 00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:27,719 Speaker 1: moynihan says he wants all vaccinated workers back in the 330 00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:31,720 Speaker 1: office by September, and he talked about it with Bloomberg's 331 00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:34,680 Speaker 1: David Weston. As more people get vaccinated, we keep bringing 332 00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:35,960 Speaker 1: more back. We've got a lot of work to get 333 00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:38,600 Speaker 1: those back. But the view is after Labor Day, our 334 00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:40,640 Speaker 1: view is all the vaccinate teammates were back and will 335 00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:43,119 Speaker 1: be able to operate failure normally and will then start 336 00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:45,240 Speaker 1: to make provisions for the other teammates as we move 337 00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:47,760 Speaker 1: through the fall. After Labor Day, you're vaccinated, you're back 338 00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:49,920 Speaker 1: at work. Everyone else will have a plan for you soon, 339 00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:53,480 Speaker 1: and a lot of companies are doing this as we 340 00:17:53,560 --> 00:17:56,120 Speaker 1: try to figure out how to get the workforce back. 341 00:17:56,160 --> 00:18:00,000 Speaker 1: And we're joined right now by Bloomberg Politics contributor Rick Davis, 342 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:04,480 Speaker 1: as well Laura Fink, Democratic Strategist founder and CEO of 343 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:08,960 Speaker 1: Rebel Communications. This program, Bloomberg Sound On, has been live 344 00:18:09,040 --> 00:18:11,960 Speaker 1: from three different cities over the last week. We started 345 00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:14,639 Speaker 1: in New York. I was with you from Boston the 346 00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:17,000 Speaker 1: end of last week, and of course now we are 347 00:18:17,119 --> 00:18:20,040 Speaker 1: ensconced deep inside the Beltway here in Washington, d C. 348 00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:23,800 Speaker 1: All three cities seemed very different to me, and having 349 00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:27,160 Speaker 1: an opportunity to have this contrast with three cities three 350 00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:30,879 Speaker 1: days really opened my eyes to the different pacing that 351 00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:34,400 Speaker 1: we're seeing. Even within the Amtrak corridor. Here, New York 352 00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:36,560 Speaker 1: is stuck in traffic. You heard ed Collegi. People are 353 00:18:36,560 --> 00:18:38,919 Speaker 1: going back. The offices may not be full, but the 354 00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:42,040 Speaker 1: city is beginning to return. The same could be said 355 00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:44,600 Speaker 1: for Boston, maybe a little bit less here in Washington, 356 00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:48,800 Speaker 1: d C. I'm gonna live in this apartment on the Highway. 357 00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:52,000 Speaker 1: I haven't seen rush hour happen yet. I get on 358 00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:57,160 Speaker 1: metro trains, they're mostly empty. And I wonder Rick Davis, 359 00:18:57,200 --> 00:19:00,080 Speaker 1: if you're seeing this as well. You live in a 360 00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:02,560 Speaker 1: capital city and it's been a little bit of a 361 00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:06,560 Speaker 1: ghost town lately. The big question is why. Yeah, I 362 00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:09,520 Speaker 1: think you point out the really amazing thing. Washington is 363 00:19:09,520 --> 00:19:14,720 Speaker 1: a nightmare for traffic. Usually and frankly it's been heavenly. 364 00:19:15,359 --> 00:19:18,600 Speaker 1: If this is Washington in the future, I'm all for it. Um. 365 00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:20,880 Speaker 1: You know, look, I think that it's a combination of things. 366 00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:24,440 Speaker 1: I think one, Um, Washington, d C. Had pretty punitive 367 00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:27,040 Speaker 1: stay at home measures, and they lasted a little bit 368 00:19:27,119 --> 00:19:31,720 Speaker 1: longer than some Uh. There's been more focus on the 369 00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:35,800 Speaker 1: public health debate inside of Washington than anywhere else in 370 00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:38,640 Speaker 1: the and maybe the world. Uh. And so that has 371 00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:41,679 Speaker 1: a salutary effect maybe on some employers. Uh. And I 372 00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:45,680 Speaker 1: would also say, and it's just a no statistics behind 373 00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:47,320 Speaker 1: it or anything, but you know, there was a lot 374 00:19:47,359 --> 00:19:50,480 Speaker 1: of urban unrest in Washington, d C. Throughout last summer 375 00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:53,560 Speaker 1: during COVID, and a lot of a lot of businesses 376 00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:57,479 Speaker 1: boarded up, shut down, and until COVID was completely over, 377 00:19:57,520 --> 00:19:59,920 Speaker 1: they weren't going to reopen. So there's a bigger impact 378 00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:02,639 Speaker 1: I think in that regard than than in some of 379 00:20:02,680 --> 00:20:05,359 Speaker 1: the other places around the country. Laura, think we've heard 380 00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:09,560 Speaker 1: from primarily Republicans but also some Democrats who say that 381 00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:13,200 Speaker 1: the unemployment benefits that have been layered in COVID are 382 00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:15,480 Speaker 1: paying people more than they'd make if they were working, 383 00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:17,919 Speaker 1: and therefore they're going to stay home and collect the 384 00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:22,280 Speaker 1: checks until they stop. Others say no, there's a fear 385 00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:25,600 Speaker 1: of public health, concern of fear of COVID, and people 386 00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:28,639 Speaker 1: may not be comfortable writing public transportation or even working 387 00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:32,399 Speaker 1: in an office with potentially unvaccinated people. Where are you 388 00:20:32,480 --> 00:20:36,120 Speaker 1: on this, Well, I'll go back to sort of polling 389 00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:39,600 Speaker 1: that's been done on this, and then over people would 390 00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:41,919 Speaker 1: like some kind of hybrid work where possible. Obviously we 391 00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:43,840 Speaker 1: know in all jobs that's not true, but an office 392 00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:46,719 Speaker 1: job that certainly could be. And then you've got seventy 393 00:20:47,359 --> 00:20:50,040 Speaker 1: of executives and HR professionals that want everybody back in 394 00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:52,919 Speaker 1: the office. So there's a there's a sort of intersection 395 00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:56,960 Speaker 1: of two different opinions here. I think that robust workplaces 396 00:20:57,000 --> 00:20:58,960 Speaker 1: will be a little bit flexible as they move back, 397 00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:00,680 Speaker 1: and they'll not just like you know, like the head 398 00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:03,160 Speaker 1: of Borgan Stanley that said he's gonna penalize and put 399 00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:06,719 Speaker 1: pay for workers that want to continue to work remotely. Instead, 400 00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:09,200 Speaker 1: try the carrot approach. Maybe paid workers a little bit more, 401 00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:12,560 Speaker 1: maybe incentivize them to come back into the office, back 402 00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:15,560 Speaker 1: onto the job. We are seeing even in this in 403 00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:18,639 Speaker 1: this labor market, workers have a little bit more leverage 404 00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:22,160 Speaker 1: with employers and and I think that's a good thing. 405 00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:25,960 Speaker 1: Rage wages help the middle class, help suspending ultimately grow 406 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:30,560 Speaker 1: the economy. Think of America CEO Brian moynihan again speaking 407 00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:34,520 Speaker 1: with Bloomberg, you're seeing employment market titan. If you ask 408 00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:39,200 Speaker 1: our small business customers last fall, their number one issue pandemic, pandemic, pandemic. 409 00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:42,639 Speaker 1: This spring, number one issue getting people to work and 410 00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:45,920 Speaker 1: supply chains, that's a whole different place. And that means 411 00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:48,480 Speaker 1: inflation and characteristics are out there to be filled. But 412 00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:51,840 Speaker 1: is it temporary? Is a transitory um and there'll be 413 00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:54,040 Speaker 1: a great debate about that. And that's the sound of 414 00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:57,920 Speaker 1: optimism to me. Rick Davis, The unemployment market is tightening. 415 00:21:57,920 --> 00:22:01,600 Speaker 1: The fact is, though when the benefit it's expire, most 416 00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:04,800 Speaker 1: people will not have a choice. That's right, Joe. I 417 00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:07,240 Speaker 1: think you point out a really important thing. Those benefits 418 00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:12,840 Speaker 1: are still being paid to unemployed workers, uh through September, 419 00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:15,720 Speaker 1: and so until you see that run out, you're really 420 00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:19,840 Speaker 1: not going to have a firm fixed opinion on whether 421 00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:23,080 Speaker 1: or not those payments were actually stopping or encouraging people 422 00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:26,400 Speaker 1: not to return to the workforce. We still have over 423 00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:29,920 Speaker 1: ten million people unemployed and and so I think it's 424 00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:32,160 Speaker 1: one of the things that you're seeing in these numbers 425 00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:36,080 Speaker 1: that we've been you know, wild gyrations in the unemployment 426 00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:39,680 Speaker 1: numbers over the last three months because we have sort 427 00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:43,600 Speaker 1: of an artificial UH safety net right now for unemployment 428 00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:46,520 Speaker 1: and until those numbers dry up, until that that that 429 00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:52,320 Speaker 1: weekly paycheck UH stops coming from Uncle Sam, I think 430 00:22:52,359 --> 00:22:55,400 Speaker 1: you're gonna not see how much of an impact these 431 00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:58,200 Speaker 1: stay at homes have been having. Strikes me that it's 432 00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:02,800 Speaker 1: another case where corporations are setting the way forward on this, Laura, 433 00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:08,919 Speaker 1: and not government policymakers. Well, I think that that's because 434 00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:13,399 Speaker 1: there aren't a lot of regulations on corporations around workers. 435 00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:15,199 Speaker 1: Like I said, they could pay workers more and then 436 00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:18,440 Speaker 1: they'd come back in Now. I think while we can, 437 00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:21,640 Speaker 1: we can talk about these unemployment benefits, but the economists 438 00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:24,600 Speaker 1: are saying that's not necessarily the driver. In fact, our 439 00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:27,840 Speaker 1: tourism industry, other industries were still warming up here and 440 00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:31,800 Speaker 1: aren't in in full flow. So um, there's a little 441 00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:35,760 Speaker 1: bit said to be said for ball. This is Bloomberg 442 00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:42,280 Speaker 1: So On with Joe Maphew on Bloomberg Radio. You see 443 00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:46,440 Speaker 1: that launch today space X put a new GPS satellite 444 00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:50,840 Speaker 1: for the Space Force into orbits. You heard it on 445 00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:55,879 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio as it happened today in Cape Canaveral two 446 00:23:56,520 --> 00:24:03,480 Speaker 1: one zero vacations and let's go and falcons pps. There 447 00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:06,520 Speaker 1: was a beauty first days, landed gently back on the 448 00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:12,760 Speaker 1: barge and a beautiful launch. But these launches have become commonplace. 449 00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:15,560 Speaker 1: Do you take it for granted? Now? Space Acts, a 450 00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:18,760 Speaker 1: private company, has also carried humans, of course, to space 451 00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:22,720 Speaker 1: and back not that long ago, A far cry from 452 00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:25,640 Speaker 1: where we were just a couple of years ago when 453 00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:28,520 Speaker 1: we had to pay Russia for riots to space. We're 454 00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:32,240 Speaker 1: joined now by former NASA astronaut Tom Jones, who flew 455 00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:35,880 Speaker 1: on four Shuttle missions and also served on the NASA 456 00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:40,880 Speaker 1: Advisory Board. Welcome Tom to Bloomberg. Sound on, Hi, Joe. 457 00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:43,840 Speaker 1: Pretty exciting news, sure is, and there's a lot to 458 00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:47,080 Speaker 1: talk about here. Civilians in space a major advance. My gosh, 459 00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:49,880 Speaker 1: we're gonna be going on vacation in space apparently soon enough. 460 00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:53,280 Speaker 1: But we could also be headed for a new space race. 461 00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:56,320 Speaker 1: Just this week, Russia and China unveiled plans for a 462 00:24:56,400 --> 00:25:00,280 Speaker 1: joint international lunar Research station, Tom, what are we in for? 463 00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:04,800 Speaker 1: Here right. The Chinese want to be a major space 464 00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:07,440 Speaker 1: power because they think that proves their status on the 465 00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:10,880 Speaker 1: world stage, and so they're looking for partners to join 466 00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:12,520 Speaker 1: them on the surface of the Moon. I think that 467 00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:15,560 Speaker 1: they expect to be there by about twenty so this 468 00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:17,400 Speaker 1: would of course be their first trip to the Moon. 469 00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:20,119 Speaker 1: We did in nine, but we haven't been back in 470 00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:23,000 Speaker 1: seventy two, and I think it's uh, it's a competition, 471 00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:25,760 Speaker 1: that's real. The US is trying to get back to 472 00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:27,480 Speaker 1: the surface of the Moon to show that we still 473 00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:30,840 Speaker 1: have the technological edge over the Chinese, and that's being 474 00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:34,360 Speaker 1: played out on this world or even outer space stage. 475 00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:36,880 Speaker 1: They all kind of tie in. There's just so much 476 00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:42,760 Speaker 1: happening here with regard to civilian space exploration now working 477 00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:46,359 Speaker 1: with the government. NASA of course is far ahead on this, 478 00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:48,280 Speaker 1: but we couldn't do it without the civilians. And I 479 00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:52,320 Speaker 1: wonder how that plays into our future space program. If 480 00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:54,600 Speaker 1: we have China and Russia on the Moon, will space 481 00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:58,280 Speaker 1: X still be playing a role in this? I think 482 00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:00,640 Speaker 1: there's two parts to the the answer. Or I think 483 00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:04,800 Speaker 1: the commercial space sector is vital for NASA's future health 484 00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:08,600 Speaker 1: and progress. Um we're turning over all the lower orbit 485 00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:13,560 Speaker 1: nearby operations to commercial entities under under just service contracts, 486 00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:16,000 Speaker 1: and that's great. It's very reliable. They've taken on the 487 00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:19,119 Speaker 1: routine task that NASA, UM you know, perfected back in 488 00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:22,080 Speaker 1: the sixties and seventies. Now we're moving out to the 489 00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:25,360 Speaker 1: frontier two or forty thousand miles away from Earth, where 490 00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:28,480 Speaker 1: NASA is still going to be carrying the water, taking 491 00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:31,480 Speaker 1: the lead on the high technology needed there. Um. I 492 00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:33,160 Speaker 1: think this is a real edge for the US. We've 493 00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:36,159 Speaker 1: got this vital commercial space sector that provides innovation and 494 00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:39,399 Speaker 1: lower costs, and we're competing with governments in China and 495 00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:41,880 Speaker 1: in Russia, and I think we have an innovation edge 496 00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:45,280 Speaker 1: because of that. We're more flexible, more more versable, we 497 00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:47,920 Speaker 1: have usable systems like space x is. So this is 498 00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:50,480 Speaker 1: a real plus for us. But no matter where we go, 499 00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:53,280 Speaker 1: whether it's the Moon or Mars, to your point, we 500 00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:55,560 Speaker 1: are going to need that commercial sector helping us because 501 00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:59,520 Speaker 1: they provide cargo hauling, They provide um robust transportation to 502 00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:02,400 Speaker 1: the space station, and that will help us springboard out 503 00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:05,880 Speaker 1: beyond tom We're also joined this hour by Bloomberg Politics 504 00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:09,240 Speaker 1: contributor Rick Davis, who has had his eye on the 505 00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:13,440 Speaker 1: space program, on space policy for many years here and well, Rick, 506 00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:15,720 Speaker 1: you know, you couldn't get arrested trying to talk about 507 00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:19,560 Speaker 1: this not that long ago. When you add the excitement 508 00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:23,000 Speaker 1: of civilian involvement here, and when you add the element 509 00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:26,600 Speaker 1: of competition from other countries, now suddenly everybody wants to 510 00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:29,199 Speaker 1: have a space program here in the US. Is the 511 00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:32,119 Speaker 1: White House ready for that? Well, I think the White 512 00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:35,040 Speaker 1: House is looking forward to it. I'm not sure they're ready, 513 00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:37,760 Speaker 1: but I do know the other agencies, likeness in the 514 00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:40,520 Speaker 1: Defense Department, have been in hopes of this kind of 515 00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:43,920 Speaker 1: burgeoning explosion of space activity for some time. I mean 516 00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:48,000 Speaker 1: these are all, you know, very synergistic agencies that uh, 517 00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:51,280 Speaker 1: you know, as assets grow into the number of launchers, 518 00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:53,679 Speaker 1: the number of people in the satellite business, you know, 519 00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:56,639 Speaker 1: whether it's these GPS satellites or the low Earth orbit 520 00:27:57,040 --> 00:28:00,320 Speaker 1: that are proliferating right now, it's it's all really healthy 521 00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:03,200 Speaker 1: for for this industry. And I think there are new 522 00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:06,000 Speaker 1: ways that people are finding to monetize it. So whether 523 00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:09,480 Speaker 1: it's private or public sector, I think it's very positive 524 00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:12,320 Speaker 1: and frankly, right now, if the White House just sort 525 00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:14,639 Speaker 1: of gets out of the way and lets this industry grow, 526 00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:17,560 Speaker 1: it'll be positive for all their fronts. Tom Jones, I 527 00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:19,720 Speaker 1: have long said that people will not take space for 528 00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:23,360 Speaker 1: granted if they see a Chinese flag or a Russian 529 00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:28,400 Speaker 1: flag on the moon. Recalling those early images of Neil 530 00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:30,800 Speaker 1: Armstrong and buzz Aldren and said, wait a minute, we 531 00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:33,440 Speaker 1: thought that was ours, that was supposed to be our moon. 532 00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:36,680 Speaker 1: And I wondered to what extent this becomes and maybe 533 00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:38,560 Speaker 1: this is a concern of yours, maybe not, but what 534 00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:43,480 Speaker 1: this extent this becomes a military operation. There's so much 535 00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:46,920 Speaker 1: talk we've got a space force now, space security. Even 536 00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:49,760 Speaker 1: this week NATO acknowledge the fact that space could be 537 00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:55,200 Speaker 1: a new frontier for military activity. Is that inevitable? I 538 00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:59,240 Speaker 1: think it's it's inevitable because our competitors, China is has 539 00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:02,520 Speaker 1: a human space program run by their military, and most 540 00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:05,640 Speaker 1: of their details of the engineering or secret under their 541 00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:09,120 Speaker 1: their military service. So if you sit back, the Chinese 542 00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:10,840 Speaker 1: are going to get to the moon about and the 543 00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:12,080 Speaker 1: people that are going to be on the moon are 544 00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:15,640 Speaker 1: Chinese military service members, and they're going to control the 545 00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:18,400 Speaker 1: access to the moon and its resources. So what we 546 00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:20,840 Speaker 1: want to do is be there first. With our Western 547 00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:24,200 Speaker 1: partners and apply to the lunar surface and to the 548 00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:27,000 Speaker 1: resources on the nearby asteroids, for example. We want to 549 00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:30,960 Speaker 1: apply Western standards of law and contracts so that business 550 00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:34,440 Speaker 1: can take place under the open legal system that we 551 00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:37,040 Speaker 1: have and enjoy in the West. And that's what's at 552 00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:40,240 Speaker 1: stake here, losing access to those resources under a good, 553 00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:43,719 Speaker 1: open legal system that everybody understands and can compete in. So, 554 00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:47,120 Speaker 1: Rick Davis, maybe people should not be laughing about space force. 555 00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:49,440 Speaker 1: Where where are you on this? This could become an 556 00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:53,680 Speaker 1: essential components to our military. Yeah, I think that it's 557 00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:57,520 Speaker 1: really important right now under those kinds of circumstances where 558 00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:02,440 Speaker 1: you have competition, especially with a rival pier like China. Um. Uh, 559 00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:04,560 Speaker 1: it now makes so much more sense. But I must 560 00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:07,400 Speaker 1: admit I was one of those people who when uh, 561 00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:09,760 Speaker 1: Donald Trump first mentioned it, I thought, you know, it 562 00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:12,320 Speaker 1: was it was a joke. But it's no joke. Uh, 563 00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:15,200 Speaker 1: that's the next frontier. As you point out, there's a 564 00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:17,960 Speaker 1: lot of patriotism involved in the space program and that's 565 00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:21,240 Speaker 1: not gonna dissipate. It will be one thing that can 566 00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:25,200 Speaker 1: also unify the American public. Tom Jones, you flew on 567 00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:27,880 Speaker 1: four Shuttle missions. As I mentioned, you've spent an enormous 568 00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:30,600 Speaker 1: amount of time and space, always in peace, always a 569 00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:33,760 Speaker 1: civilian mission. When we saw a civilian rocket today though, 570 00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:37,920 Speaker 1: this SpaceX rocket bring a satellite to space for the military. 571 00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:41,480 Speaker 1: That's not uncommon. But would that continue if this heated 572 00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:43,800 Speaker 1: up into a military standoff between the U S and 573 00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:48,960 Speaker 1: other countries. That's the element of civilian involvement. The military, 574 00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:52,080 Speaker 1: for its entire history of activity in space, has always 575 00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:56,080 Speaker 1: bought rockets from its major contractors, and they those companies 576 00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:58,480 Speaker 1: like Lockheed Martin, like a Boeing, like McDonald Douglas, and 577 00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:00,880 Speaker 1: in the nineties they were were the ones who fired 578 00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:04,160 Speaker 1: the rockets with military payloads on top. That hasn't changed, 579 00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:07,160 Speaker 1: so you can expect to see contractors working for the 580 00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:10,000 Speaker 1: military and providing these rockets. The government's going to own 581 00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:12,920 Speaker 1: the asset up in space, the GPS satellite or the 582 00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:18,040 Speaker 1: reconnaissance vehicle or an imaging or early warning satellite. That's 583 00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:20,680 Speaker 1: where the government will will still control the hardware and assets. 584 00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:24,800 Speaker 1: For example, will still operate with some of its traditional 585 00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:28,040 Speaker 1: contractors even as it contracts out for services. You know, hey, 586 00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:31,280 Speaker 1: throw two tons into space for me as a as 587 00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:34,200 Speaker 1: a contract at service, So no big change there, and 588 00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:35,880 Speaker 1: I think that this is good. It's going to be 589 00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:38,720 Speaker 1: a lower price for the taxpayer with these commercial firms 590 00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:41,440 Speaker 1: competing for the government's business. Do you agree with that, Rich, 591 00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:44,720 Speaker 1: Should we continue to do business with civilian contractors even 592 00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:49,760 Speaker 1: as space edges into a military sphere? Yeah? Absolutely. I 593 00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:52,160 Speaker 1: think it's one of the things that actually a lot 594 00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:54,640 Speaker 1: of members in Congress have been fighting for. John McCain 595 00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:59,719 Speaker 1: almost forced the Defense Department to start accepting SpaceX rides 596 00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:02,280 Speaker 1: and now we look back and we think it's pretty routine. 597 00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:04,960 Speaker 1: But it was only a few years ago that the 598 00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:08,239 Speaker 1: military was resistant to, you know, new space contractors, not 599 00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:11,400 Speaker 1: the sort of military industrial complex guys that are used 600 00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:13,880 Speaker 1: to giving them rides to space. So I think the 601 00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:16,600 Speaker 1: more competition out there is exactly what Tom was saying. 602 00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:19,440 Speaker 1: It's going to reduce costs, good for the taxpayer and 603 00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:21,840 Speaker 1: uh and and create a whole new industry out of 604 00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:26,080 Speaker 1: out of commercial space, and that advances America's space program 605 00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:30,680 Speaker 1: at large, whether it's NASA, whether it's civilian, whether it's military. 606 00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:34,320 Speaker 1: Tom Jones, would you go back as a civilian you've 607 00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:36,480 Speaker 1: been up four times? Would you trust a private company 608 00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:39,600 Speaker 1: to bring it back to space. Of course I would, 609 00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:41,400 Speaker 1: and you know that's happening right now. This year, we're 610 00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:44,280 Speaker 1: gonna see private space missions flown on space X vehicles, 611 00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:45,640 Speaker 1: and I would love to be a part of that, 612 00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:46,840 Speaker 1: as long as I didn't have to go through the 613 00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:48,400 Speaker 1: two and a half years of training that it took 614 00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:50,880 Speaker 1: me to get ready to my previous light, or the 615 00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:53,120 Speaker 1: twenty million dollars apparently that you have to spend in 616 00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:57,160 Speaker 1: an auction. Right up there with Jeff Bezos or whomever else, 617 00:32:57,240 --> 00:32:59,840 Speaker 1: Virgin Galactics is. They're ready to go as well. You're ready, Rick, 618 00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:04,400 Speaker 1: first radio show from space, it would be excellent. Boy, 619 00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:07,160 Speaker 1: we've had dreams about that, haven't we imagined the first 620 00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:09,440 Speaker 1: remote broadcast? Although I guess Tom Cruise is going to 621 00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:13,360 Speaker 1: be up there eventually. There's so much to cover here 622 00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:15,360 Speaker 1: and and a heck of a lot to talk about 623 00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:18,760 Speaker 1: with the future of space. Tom Jones, appreciate your time 624 00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:23,360 Speaker 1: with us. A NASA astronaut on four Shuttle missions, served 625 00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:26,920 Speaker 1: on the NASA Advisory Board and helping to advise us 626 00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:30,200 Speaker 1: on this story today. Thanks for coming along, Rick. What's 627 00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:34,320 Speaker 1: next for the Biden administration when it comes to space? Well, 628 00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:37,680 Speaker 1: I think that it's going to be uh, look into 629 00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:40,200 Speaker 1: the military side, because as Tom pointed out, I mean 630 00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:42,800 Speaker 1: this is this is no joke. We're in a competition 631 00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:46,479 Speaker 1: with China both on Earth and in orbit, and and 632 00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:48,640 Speaker 1: so what are their plans going to be? Uh? As 633 00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:52,400 Speaker 1: they continue to move toward a lunar programmer, you know, 634 00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:55,720 Speaker 1: on the Moon, and then we've heard it from this 635 00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:58,600 Speaker 1: administration they have great ambitions to be on Mars. And 636 00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:01,080 Speaker 1: so it wouldn't show up ris me that there aren't 637 00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:05,280 Speaker 1: more public private initiatives to to try and harvest a 638 00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:10,120 Speaker 1: more significant space program around Mars. It sounds like we 639 00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:12,200 Speaker 1: need to get our Space Force T shirts and hats 640 00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:15,320 Speaker 1: over here at some point. Rick, thank you, Rick Davis, 641 00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:18,880 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Politics contributor and a regular here of course on 642 00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:22,160 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Sound On. I'm Joe Matthew and Washington, and we 643 00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:24,319 Speaker 1: thank you for spending part of your Thursday with us 644 00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:27,880 Speaker 1: here on sound On. I'm Joe Matthew, and this is 645 00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:31,320 Speaker 1: Bloomberg h