1
00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:27,440
Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to

2
00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:30,440
Speaker 1: the show, fellow Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so

3
00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:33,760
Speaker 1: much for tuning in. Let's hear it for the Man,

4
00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:36,720
Speaker 1: the myth legend, our super producer, mister Max William.

5
00:00:37,200 --> 00:00:43,600
Speaker 2: Goo Goo June. I exist still he is the Walrus. Yeah,

6
00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:46,000
Speaker 2: I am the man. I want to hold your hand, bro.

7
00:00:46,800 --> 00:00:48,920
Speaker 2: There is none other than.

8
00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:55,440
Speaker 1: There is none other than my my colleague, my compatriot,

9
00:00:55,520 --> 00:00:58,200
Speaker 1: my brother from another mother, mister Noel Brown, knowl how

10
00:00:58,240 --> 00:01:01,560
Speaker 1: you doing? I'm doing okay, man? How about yourself? Oh well,

11
00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:03,200
Speaker 1: I'm still going by Ben Bullen.

12
00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:06,480
Speaker 2: I know, yeah, yeah, yeah awkward. If I called you

13
00:01:06,520 --> 00:01:08,240
Speaker 2: something else like Steve.

14
00:01:08,520 --> 00:01:10,920
Speaker 1: Well Interpool hasn't caught me yet, you can.

15
00:01:11,319 --> 00:01:11,679
Speaker 2: You can.

16
00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:14,319
Speaker 1: In the meantime, check us out. I'm hanging out with

17
00:01:14,319 --> 00:01:16,320
Speaker 1: our palace Jack Miles over on Daily's II.

18
00:01:16,360 --> 00:01:16,760
Speaker 2: Guys.

19
00:01:16,959 --> 00:01:20,320
Speaker 1: Hopefully they'll return to our show as well in the

20
00:01:20,319 --> 00:01:23,640
Speaker 1: near future for some historical flexes. So if you're a

21
00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:26,880
Speaker 1: fan of them, please bully them into coming on our show.

22
00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:33,160
Speaker 1: M just with no no preface, no nice how you're doing,

23
00:01:33,520 --> 00:01:36,280
Speaker 1: just to just try to coerce them into hanging out

24
00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:41,080
Speaker 1: with us and speaking of coersion, Oh my gosh, we

25
00:01:41,120 --> 00:01:43,320
Speaker 1: teased this earlier. We teased this for a few weeks

26
00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:45,520
Speaker 1: while we were on the road as well. We have

27
00:01:45,760 --> 00:01:51,480
Speaker 1: a series of episodes coming out about Apples, the History

28
00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:55,680
Speaker 1: of Apple, john the History of Apples, the produce, the

29
00:01:55,720 --> 00:01:59,040
Speaker 1: story of Johnny Appleseed. And know there's something that you

30
00:01:59,120 --> 00:02:01,400
Speaker 1: and I were talking about out as well as with

31
00:02:01,480 --> 00:02:05,560
Speaker 1: our buddy Jordan Runtalk that really stood out to you

32
00:02:05,680 --> 00:02:08,520
Speaker 1: and I think it's a peak ridiculous history story that

33
00:02:08,680 --> 00:02:09,680
Speaker 1: needs to be told.

34
00:02:09,880 --> 00:02:10,079
Speaker 2: Well.

35
00:02:10,080 --> 00:02:15,760
Speaker 3: It came from the recent series we did on intellectual property, copyright,

36
00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:18,640
Speaker 3: trademark and all of that. And it turns out that

37
00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:22,680
Speaker 3: one of the biggest trademark battles of our time was

38
00:02:22,760 --> 00:02:27,760
Speaker 3: between two apples, the Computer Variety and the Music Variety,

39
00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:31,880
Speaker 3: a record label founded in London in January of nineteen

40
00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:36,040
Speaker 3: sixty eight by the Beatles John Paul that scamp Ringo

41
00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:37,240
Speaker 3: and George.

42
00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:40,080
Speaker 2: Don't forget about George, All things must pass as a banger.

43
00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:51,280
Speaker 3: They wanted to replace their previous company, Beatles Limited, and

44
00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:54,560
Speaker 3: get more of their finances under their own control of

45
00:02:54,600 --> 00:02:58,360
Speaker 3: their catalog, but also kind of branch out into film,

46
00:02:58,840 --> 00:03:03,760
Speaker 3: into retail into a development of other artists. You may

47
00:03:03,800 --> 00:03:06,680
Speaker 3: well have some records that are on Apple Records that

48
00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:08,239
Speaker 3: are not the Beatles.

49
00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:10,040
Speaker 2: I think James Taylor.

50
00:03:09,760 --> 00:03:13,959
Speaker 3: Released some stuff on Apple Records, John Lennon's Good Buddy,

51
00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:17,799
Speaker 3: Harry Nilsen, and of course all things must pass. The

52
00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:21,880
Speaker 3: record I mentioned before, the George Harrison double LP, is

53
00:03:21,919 --> 00:03:22,919
Speaker 3: also released on.

54
00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:26,480
Speaker 1: Apple and they called this is one of my favorite

55
00:03:26,520 --> 00:03:30,000
Speaker 1: parts about the company, the Beatles. The Fab four called

56
00:03:30,040 --> 00:03:36,320
Speaker 1: this company apple core, get it, get it, I love it.

57
00:03:36,280 --> 00:03:39,080
Speaker 2: Hashtag very fire left behind now yeah good And.

58
00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:41,280
Speaker 1: They were like, you said, you know, if we cast

59
00:03:41,320 --> 00:03:46,080
Speaker 1: our memories back to early nineteen sixty seven, the Beatles

60
00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:50,280
Speaker 1: are a worldwide phenomena. At this point, They've got Yeah,

61
00:03:50,320 --> 00:03:53,920
Speaker 1: They've got all these hit records, They're getting songwriting royalties

62
00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:57,160
Speaker 1: left and right in a way that the music industry

63
00:03:57,480 --> 00:04:01,480
Speaker 1: hasn't really encountered on this level. But on the other side,

64
00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:05,520
Speaker 1: they were still haunted by the bad deals they had

65
00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:07,880
Speaker 1: made earlier in their collective career.

66
00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:11,080
Speaker 3: Well, it's also one of those music industry history moments

67
00:04:11,560 --> 00:04:14,000
Speaker 3: where it was very hard for bands to be able

68
00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:17,760
Speaker 3: to exert this level of control, and only because of

69
00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:21,680
Speaker 3: how incredibly successful the Beatles were were they able to

70
00:04:21,760 --> 00:04:25,400
Speaker 3: do this like Another example might be Prince choosing not

71
00:04:25,560 --> 00:04:29,960
Speaker 3: to renew his record contract with the label and recording

72
00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:33,880
Speaker 3: and releasing and consequently owning all of his own master

73
00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:37,359
Speaker 3: recordings from that point forward when he severed ties with

74
00:04:37,480 --> 00:04:38,080
Speaker 3: that label.

75
00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:42,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, and at this point we already see the money

76
00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:45,800
Speaker 1: becoming a huge part of the conversation. Arguably, you could

77
00:04:45,800 --> 00:04:49,000
Speaker 1: say the money becomes another member of the Beatles. They

78
00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:52,240
Speaker 1: have multiple accountants, they have a staff of accountants, and

79
00:04:52,680 --> 00:04:56,480
Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty seven they go to our pals, the Beatles,

80
00:04:56,680 --> 00:04:59,240
Speaker 1: and they say, look, we're going to have to do

81
00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:02,640
Speaker 1: a little bit of financial parkour just to get everything

82
00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:03,880
Speaker 1: right with the tax man.

83
00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:06,520
Speaker 2: So sheltering, I think is the term.

84
00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:10,159
Speaker 1: Yes, give me shelter. They they are different bands, but

85
00:05:10,200 --> 00:05:14,479
Speaker 1: different great reference. They tell they tell the they tell

86
00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:19,839
Speaker 1: the bands that they need to shelter two million pounds sterling.

87
00:05:20,240 --> 00:05:20,640
Speaker 2: Uh.

88
00:05:20,680 --> 00:05:23,279
Speaker 1: And the best way to do this is to invest

89
00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:24,120
Speaker 1: in a business.

90
00:05:24,320 --> 00:05:25,400
Speaker 2: Can we Oh?

91
00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:28,400
Speaker 3: I was hoping we were going to do some inflation calculation.

92
00:05:28,839 --> 00:05:30,919
Speaker 3: All right, we must let's get that boop.

93
00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:31,920
Speaker 2: We got some.

94
00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:37,279
Speaker 3: Oh, it was a nice harmony of boops in today's pounds.

95
00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:39,760
Speaker 3: I guess it would be euros, right, this would be

96
00:05:39,960 --> 00:05:42,760
Speaker 3: fifty million pounds sterling in today's money.

97
00:05:42,760 --> 00:05:44,760
Speaker 2: But we didn't do this the euro.

98
00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:51,200
Speaker 1: Calculation, Yeah, because we support Brexit. Kidding, kidding, right, right.

99
00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:55,080
Speaker 2: Let's deal with that going bill in EU. They never

100
00:05:55,200 --> 00:05:58,280
Speaker 2: they England. England was the one country that didn't sweat.

101
00:05:58,360 --> 00:06:02,080
Speaker 3: Right, you're so right, You're so right. My mistake. Still

102
00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:05,040
Speaker 3: wondering how Breggs it's going, though, we heard tell.

103
00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:09,000
Speaker 1: Check in there are some regrets, but none of those

104
00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:12,560
Speaker 1: regrets are coming from Russia, which absolutely loved Brexit and

105
00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:14,320
Speaker 1: anything that can break up the EU.

106
00:06:14,720 --> 00:06:18,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, hoping for something similar Back here in the States.

107
00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:20,719
Speaker 1: They sure are hoping. Oh my gosh, check out our

108
00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:24,360
Speaker 1: show stuff that'll want you to know. Also, Okay, the

109
00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:30,720
Speaker 1: big tent asset of this, this massive apple Core enterprise is,

110
00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:35,360
Speaker 1: as you mentioned, a recorded label called Apple Records, and

111
00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:39,120
Speaker 1: Apple Records is the venue through which some of the

112
00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:41,679
Speaker 1: biggest Beatles albums ever get released.

113
00:06:41,839 --> 00:06:45,400
Speaker 3: That's right, I mean their earlier stuff, Rubbert Soul, Revolver,

114
00:06:46,520 --> 00:06:50,640
Speaker 3: help you know, all their musical film work and their

115
00:06:50,640 --> 00:06:52,640
Speaker 3: early singles like I Want to Hold Your Hand and

116
00:06:52,680 --> 00:06:55,360
Speaker 3: things like that I think weren't always released on full

117
00:06:55,440 --> 00:06:57,719
Speaker 3: length albums. They were kind of singles back then that

118
00:06:57,800 --> 00:07:01,080
Speaker 3: would still have been under the control of Capitol Records

119
00:07:01,160 --> 00:07:03,880
Speaker 3: or I think Parlophone I think was the English imprint

120
00:07:03,880 --> 00:07:06,640
Speaker 3: of Capital Correct me if I'm wrong, ridiculous historians. But

121
00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:09,720
Speaker 3: that was out of their hands, but they could start fresh.

122
00:07:10,040 --> 00:07:13,120
Speaker 3: Some of their most important and kind of boundary pushing

123
00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:17,240
Speaker 3: work was released by Apple, and that includes Yellow Submarine,

124
00:07:17,760 --> 00:07:21,320
Speaker 3: Abbey Road, and let It Be Yes, which.

125
00:07:21,160 --> 00:07:26,520
Speaker 2: Are absolute bangers. By the way, for the record, for

126
00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:29,200
Speaker 2: the record, whatever, we'll keep you do it.

127
00:07:29,520 --> 00:07:33,120
Speaker 1: So they come up with this amazing pine Apple Core.

128
00:07:33,880 --> 00:07:38,360
Speaker 1: They release this green Apple logo as their first trademark.

129
00:07:38,440 --> 00:07:42,000
Speaker 1: By this point it's nineteen sixty nine, and this logo

130
00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:47,040
Speaker 1: becomes iconic. People recognize it, and some of the people

131
00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:51,880
Speaker 1: who recognize it, well, they say, we also have our

132
00:07:51,920 --> 00:07:55,000
Speaker 1: own idea about Apple, and we're mad.

133
00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:55,280
Speaker 2: At you guys.

134
00:07:55,680 --> 00:07:58,920
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, you know, today I think people associate

135
00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:02,440
Speaker 3: Apple and the Apple logo or an image of an

136
00:08:02,440 --> 00:08:08,280
Speaker 3: Apple with a pretty significantly massive computer company, a technology

137
00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:09,360
Speaker 3: company Apple.

138
00:08:09,080 --> 00:08:11,440
Speaker 2: Which wasn't around in the sixties. Well, it wasn't around

139
00:08:11,480 --> 00:08:12,200
Speaker 2: in the sixties.

140
00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:14,640
Speaker 3: It was a startup more or less, you know, by

141
00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:19,080
Speaker 3: Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak, you know, in their garage

142
00:08:19,520 --> 00:08:23,240
Speaker 3: in Silicon Valley there in San Francisco area. But today

143
00:08:23,560 --> 00:08:27,400
Speaker 3: definitely much more of a household name, especially when associated

144
00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:29,760
Speaker 3: with that particular fruit here in the United States and

145
00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:31,920
Speaker 3: really in the rest of the world. Maybe there's some

146
00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:34,559
Speaker 3: folks in Britain that still think about Apple Records and

147
00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:39,439
Speaker 3: Apple Core, but probably not to the degree that Apple Computers,

148
00:08:39,480 --> 00:08:42,000
Speaker 3: you know, kind of took over the mantle for that brand.

149
00:08:42,559 --> 00:08:45,559
Speaker 1: And get this, I love this point. Get this, folks,

150
00:08:45,880 --> 00:08:49,560
Speaker 1: if you are the average person looking up Apple Core,

151
00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:52,079
Speaker 1: you're probably looking it up on your iPhone.

152
00:08:52,480 --> 00:08:54,439
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh a million percent. I mean, that's the level

153
00:08:54,440 --> 00:08:57,840
Speaker 3: of ubiquity that Apple Computer is established. Just an absolute

154
00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:02,000
Speaker 3: cultural zeitgeist owner, you know, from the moment the ip

155
00:09:02,200 --> 00:09:04,440
Speaker 3: as far back as the iPod, you know, I mean,

156
00:09:04,640 --> 00:09:10,720
Speaker 3: coining terms, absolutely revolutionizing the handheld computing device market. You know,

157
00:09:11,520 --> 00:09:13,280
Speaker 3: before it was like BlackBerry was kind of the only

158
00:09:13,320 --> 00:09:15,200
Speaker 3: game in town, and then the iPhone came in and

159
00:09:15,240 --> 00:09:16,280
Speaker 3: just blew the lid off of.

160
00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:16,640
Speaker 2: All of it.

161
00:09:16,679 --> 00:09:19,920
Speaker 3: Today they are a three trillion dollar company that was

162
00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:22,960
Speaker 3: as I said, in those house in days salad days,

163
00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:27,360
Speaker 3: I guess of the origination of the company, and Steve

164
00:09:27,440 --> 00:09:30,920
Speaker 3: and Steve were working in their garage in nineteen seventy six.

165
00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:34,640
Speaker 3: But nineteen seventy four, I believe, is when Let It

166
00:09:34,720 --> 00:09:37,199
Speaker 3: Be came out. So at this point Apple Records and

167
00:09:37,240 --> 00:09:40,280
Speaker 3: Apple Core still very much the only game in town.

168
00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:45,360
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, and Apple Computer Incorporated, as you said, it gets

169
00:09:45,400 --> 00:09:49,600
Speaker 1: founded in nineteen seventy six, so this is several years

170
00:09:49,640 --> 00:09:53,760
Speaker 1: after this, Like this is like seven years after the

171
00:09:53,840 --> 00:09:57,600
Speaker 1: green Apple logo of nineteen sixty nine, and it's pretty

172
00:09:57,679 --> 00:10:01,400
Speaker 1: much a decade after the exist of Apple Core is

173
00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:02,440
Speaker 1: created by the Beatles.

174
00:10:02,760 --> 00:10:04,880
Speaker 3: That logo, by the way, was inspired by a super

175
00:10:04,880 --> 00:10:10,320
Speaker 3: famous painting by the surrealist Belgian artist Renee mcgreet. Paul

176
00:10:10,360 --> 00:10:13,760
Speaker 3: McCartney had seen this in a gallery show in London

177
00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:16,160
Speaker 3: and got the inspiration for designing that logo, you know

178
00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:18,560
Speaker 3: the one. It's like the dude's head that's got the

179
00:10:18,559 --> 00:10:20,680
Speaker 3: apple kind of floating in space.

180
00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:23,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's a really good painting. It's wonderful.

181
00:10:23,679 --> 00:10:32,040
Speaker 1: Macgret's fantastic and unbeknownst to our British musicians here double

182
00:10:32,040 --> 00:10:35,080
Speaker 1: Steves as we're going to call them. When they started

183
00:10:35,080 --> 00:10:39,800
Speaker 1: their business, they created, as you said, the concept of

184
00:10:39,840 --> 00:10:44,880
Speaker 1: Apple in Steve Jobs's garage, and their first logo for

185
00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:50,120
Speaker 1: Apple the Computer Company was, you know, sort of a

186
00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:53,880
Speaker 1: pretty simple sketch of Isaac Newton from earlier sitting under

187
00:10:53,880 --> 00:10:57,400
Speaker 1: an apple tree, and then later they replaced it with

188
00:10:57,520 --> 00:11:00,920
Speaker 1: what we acknowledge as the old school logo, the nineteen

189
00:11:01,040 --> 00:11:05,160
Speaker 1: seventy seven rainbow striped apple. Some cheeky monkey took a

190
00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:05,920
Speaker 1: bite out of.

191
00:11:05,800 --> 00:11:09,040
Speaker 2: It, a little devil. Where do you go? Let me

192
00:11:09,080 --> 00:11:11,200
Speaker 2: add him? Where is he? Right?

193
00:11:11,960 --> 00:11:16,800
Speaker 1: So they all love puns, right, This is a fun

194
00:11:16,880 --> 00:11:21,400
Speaker 1: fact you found courtesy of our friends over at trade Markia.

195
00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:26,160
Speaker 1: Shout out to I'm RuSHA chatti one hundred percent Apple core.

196
00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:28,760
Speaker 1: As we mentioned, the pun being core of the apple.

197
00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:30,920
Speaker 1: But when it comes to Apple computers and their logo,

198
00:11:31,160 --> 00:11:33,240
Speaker 1: that bite that's taken out, you know, be.

199
00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:37,280
Speaker 2: It e or is it b yt?

200
00:11:38,600 --> 00:11:42,920
Speaker 3: Like a a unit of computer data and even Apple

201
00:11:43,040 --> 00:11:46,960
Speaker 3: core though right this a core is a part of

202
00:11:47,000 --> 00:11:49,880
Speaker 3: a processor, of a computer process. Oh nice, And I'm

203
00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:51,960
Speaker 3: not sure if that terminology was used back in those

204
00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:55,360
Speaker 3: early days, but today, if you have a really powerful processor,

205
00:11:55,400 --> 00:11:57,880
Speaker 3: it's referred to as having multiple cores, which are like

206
00:11:57,960 --> 00:12:01,959
Speaker 3: the processing you know, portions of those circuits.

207
00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:04,720
Speaker 4: I would say I would guess that core was used

208
00:12:04,760 --> 00:12:07,480
Speaker 4: back in those days because it's kind of like similar

209
00:12:07,559 --> 00:12:09,600
Speaker 4: to how you would scrib like a power planner or book.

210
00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:12,920
Speaker 4: That's also sure a million Yes, I'm guessing that that

211
00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:14,120
Speaker 4: was would have been around the whole time.

212
00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:16,720
Speaker 2: That's exactly right, it's where the power lies. Sounds like

213
00:12:16,760 --> 00:12:18,520
Speaker 2: it's time for max with the facts.

214
00:12:18,559 --> 00:12:26,840
Speaker 3: What is that seeking in the phone and peaceful in knowledge?

215
00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:33,680
Speaker 2: It's just for you right now, there it was. It

216
00:12:33,679 --> 00:12:35,720
Speaker 2: feels so good to be back, it really does.

217
00:12:36,160 --> 00:12:38,640
Speaker 1: While we're walking out the puns, let's also point out

218
00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:43,199
Speaker 1: some more wordplay. Corp co r p s of course

219
00:12:43,640 --> 00:12:48,520
Speaker 1: pronounced core also denotes a large military movement. Shout out

220
00:12:48,559 --> 00:12:51,960
Speaker 1: to Camel cor Yeah, corporation.

221
00:12:51,679 --> 00:12:54,679
Speaker 2: So of course. So we're just saying it's well written.

222
00:12:55,040 --> 00:12:58,440
Speaker 3: It is absolutely and in a press conference that the

223
00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:02,760
Speaker 3: Beatles held in nineteen sixty eight to announce the founding

224
00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:05,760
Speaker 3: of this organization, John Lennon described Apple Core as being

225
00:13:06,360 --> 00:13:09,439
Speaker 3: a company we're setting up involving records, is what he

226
00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:14,400
Speaker 3: would have said. Films and electronics m So there's definitely

227
00:13:14,559 --> 00:13:19,160
Speaker 3: already some overlap in what apple Core is setting out

228
00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:21,000
Speaker 3: to do. We're gonna get into whether or not they

229
00:13:21,040 --> 00:13:24,280
Speaker 3: actually did it or not, and what the Steves are

230
00:13:24,280 --> 00:13:27,240
Speaker 3: coming up with that technology side, you know, for them,

231
00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:29,559
Speaker 3: electronics and technology.

232
00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:31,160
Speaker 2: I mean, they're very much hand in hand.

233
00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:41,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, And unfortunately, as we as we know and as

234
00:13:41,880 --> 00:13:46,440
Speaker 1: history will later prove, the Beatles, despite being a tremendously

235
00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:50,600
Speaker 1: fantastic musical force together, they had a lot of clashes

236
00:13:50,679 --> 00:13:55,400
Speaker 1: of personality and fame brought with it some complications, some arguments,

237
00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:58,720
Speaker 1: some loggerheads, some I think people give you'll go oh

238
00:13:58,840 --> 00:14:02,920
Speaker 1: no a hard time, but right right, they had some

239
00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:08,880
Speaker 1: they had some internal issues and they're as a result

240
00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:13,040
Speaker 1: of this, the tensions in the group, you know, it

241
00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:16,000
Speaker 1: didn't help the mission of apple Core.

242
00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:19,320
Speaker 3: They should have spent more time with the Maharishiogi to

243
00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:22,000
Speaker 3: kind of mellow out and stop being so tense at

244
00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:22,840
Speaker 3: each other, y'all.

245
00:14:23,280 --> 00:14:24,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, maybe right.

246
00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:29,040
Speaker 1: There's also the fact, and we say this with great affection,

247
00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:31,840
Speaker 1: we're obviously all of us are big Beatles fans. Here,

248
00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:35,360
Speaker 1: there's also the fact that these guys are musicians, They're

249
00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:37,040
Speaker 1: not execs.

250
00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:38,480
Speaker 2: They're not C suite types.

251
00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:41,280
Speaker 1: They don't they haven't gone to you know, Harvard Business

252
00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:42,080
Speaker 1: School or whatever.

253
00:14:42,120 --> 00:14:44,120
Speaker 2: They don't know how to run a company like this.

254
00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:45,720
Speaker 2: But they do no music.

255
00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:48,640
Speaker 3: And like I said, some really great artists were released

256
00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:54,080
Speaker 3: under the Apple Records Moniker. But they also were attempting

257
00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:58,240
Speaker 3: to kind of forge into that electronics or kind of

258
00:14:58,280 --> 00:15:02,680
Speaker 3: technology sector with a dude they knew who was one

259
00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:04,600
Speaker 3: of their engineers.

260
00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:06,320
Speaker 2: At Apple Studios, a.

261
00:15:06,320 --> 00:15:11,800
Speaker 3: Guy by the name of Magic Alex Martis, great name, Yeah,

262
00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:16,520
Speaker 3: I mean the magic is in quotes. But he had

263
00:15:16,560 --> 00:15:20,080
Speaker 3: gone to great lengths renovating the Beatles Studios, making it

264
00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:24,120
Speaker 3: up to the current standards of recording technology, which was

265
00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:27,160
Speaker 3: a very expensive job, costing in the neighborhood of one

266
00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:32,760
Speaker 3: point five million pounds. But that studio went under as well.

267
00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:36,480
Speaker 3: And as we will find out, Martis also had some

268
00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:39,480
Speaker 3: other kind of hucksterry tricks up his sleeve.

269
00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:40,720
Speaker 2: Yeah.

270
00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:43,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, it turns out that you get in a tricky

271
00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:47,800
Speaker 1: situation when you hire people based on your friendship versus

272
00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:51,920
Speaker 1: you know, their proven skills, right, it's a big trustful

273
00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:56,920
Speaker 1: They start something called the Apple Boutique Shop. This does

274
00:15:56,960 --> 00:16:01,680
Speaker 1: not work well. It closes within just a year of launching.

275
00:16:02,040 --> 00:16:03,880
Speaker 1: And they also had, like you said, well, they had

276
00:16:03,880 --> 00:16:07,080
Speaker 1: Apple Films, which never really got off the ground floor.

277
00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:14,680
Speaker 1: Apple Electronics unfortunately had to shut down because Martis practiced

278
00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:18,320
Speaker 1: a different sort of magic and being very diplomatic.

279
00:16:17,800 --> 00:16:20,080
Speaker 2: There, yeah, the magic of bullshit.

280
00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:24,200
Speaker 1: Right, Yes, this is where we uh, this is where

281
00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:28,160
Speaker 1: we thanked Tim Kaufman over at far Out magazine dot

282
00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:30,160
Speaker 1: co dot UK, who really cool.

283
00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:33,080
Speaker 3: I just started following them on all the platforms and

284
00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:35,320
Speaker 3: it's just a really great publication. But they have an

285
00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:39,480
Speaker 3: article called Let's see Magic. Alex Martis the engineer who

286
00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:43,560
Speaker 3: promised the Beatles the world. And this guy had some

287
00:16:43,760 --> 00:16:46,080
Speaker 3: kind of he fancied himself a bit of an inventor

288
00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:48,600
Speaker 3: and had, you know, all these ideas that never really

289
00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:51,200
Speaker 3: made it past the prototype stage. And then includes a

290
00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:53,880
Speaker 3: guitar that he built for John Lennon that, when looked

291
00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:56,560
Speaker 3: at from a certain angle, as described by this far article,

292
00:16:56,840 --> 00:17:01,960
Speaker 3: resembles something in the way of a children's And you know,

293
00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:05,520
Speaker 3: he had other little, you know, pie in the sky

294
00:17:05,600 --> 00:17:09,120
Speaker 3: invention ideas, none of which ever made it to production.

295
00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:14,000
Speaker 1: Right, Like he he impressed John Lennon with something you

296
00:17:14,080 --> 00:17:17,000
Speaker 1: called the Nothing Box which was a little plastic box

297
00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:19,480
Speaker 1: with these lights that would randomly blink. And then he

298
00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:22,960
Speaker 1: told Candles he could build a seventy two track tape machine.

299
00:17:23,560 --> 00:17:25,399
Speaker 2: It's really weird, which if you're a.

300
00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:28,040
Speaker 3: Music nerd, you know that like the Beatles, early stuff

301
00:17:28,359 --> 00:17:30,880
Speaker 3: was done on four track tape and that it had

302
00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:32,920
Speaker 3: to innovate in tons of ways by like bounce it's

303
00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:35,879
Speaker 3: called bouncing, or he records to multiple things and squish

304
00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:38,440
Speaker 3: it down on one track and then record those again

305
00:17:38,600 --> 00:17:41,200
Speaker 3: to another. It's like moving things around him and doubling

306
00:17:41,280 --> 00:17:43,720
Speaker 3: them up to make room for more empty tracks. But

307
00:17:43,760 --> 00:17:46,280
Speaker 3: then you had eight track and then twenty four track.

308
00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:48,800
Speaker 3: Is what the kind of standard of the day is

309
00:17:49,119 --> 00:17:52,200
Speaker 3: because there's a finite amount of space on two inch

310
00:17:52,840 --> 00:17:56,439
Speaker 3: magnetic tape, and so promising something like seventy two tracks,

311
00:17:56,720 --> 00:17:59,520
Speaker 3: maybe it's possible, but you would also be inherently cutting

312
00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:02,520
Speaker 3: down on the modelity of each individual track because of

313
00:18:02,560 --> 00:18:05,040
Speaker 3: the fact there's only so much data that can be

314
00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:07,440
Speaker 3: written to a piece of magnetic tape like that. So

315
00:18:07,480 --> 00:18:10,360
Speaker 3: what he was promising wasn't possible even by today's standards.

316
00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:12,680
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, it was a little bit of a pie

317
00:18:12,680 --> 00:18:14,879
Speaker 1: in the sky. Let me sell you a bridge situation.

318
00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:19,439
Speaker 1: We know that eventually he ended up losing Apple the

319
00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:24,440
Speaker 1: Beatles company something like three hundred thousand pounds sterling. In

320
00:18:25,240 --> 00:18:28,840
Speaker 1: recent numbers that would be that would be over yeah,

321
00:18:28,880 --> 00:18:33,520
Speaker 1: that'd be over six point five million pounds. It was

322
00:18:33,600 --> 00:18:39,439
Speaker 1: not a good look. Dude, magic martist. He's so interesting.

323
00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:46,200
Speaker 1: He later gets into like selling bulletproof vehicles to dictators.

324
00:18:46,840 --> 00:18:49,080
Speaker 3: It's one recent yeah, after he parts ways with the

325
00:18:49,119 --> 00:18:50,800
Speaker 3: Beatles because they kick him to the carb when they

326
00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:53,679
Speaker 3: finally realized that he's a con artist. So in nineteen

327
00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:57,320
Speaker 3: seventy eight, Apple Core, it was just the holding company

328
00:18:57,320 --> 00:18:59,600
Speaker 3: for the Beatles and also what they've got their record

329
00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:02,960
Speaker 3: label apped up into, filed a lawsuit against This is

330
00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:07,120
Speaker 3: the inciting incident of our story against the then up

331
00:19:07,119 --> 00:19:12,280
Speaker 3: and coming Apple Computers for wait for it, trademark infringement.

332
00:19:13,080 --> 00:19:17,439
Speaker 3: The trademarking question being that image of an apple, though

333
00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:20,800
Speaker 3: very stylistically different, like you know, the apple that the

334
00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:24,440
Speaker 3: Beatles use is photo realistic, you know, like a green apple,

335
00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:27,959
Speaker 3: and the one that Apple used was more stylized, kind

336
00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:31,960
Speaker 3: of a two dimensional, you know, sort of shape based design.

337
00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:38,440
Speaker 2: With a cheeky little bite. Where do you go So

338
00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:39,600
Speaker 2: this is this.

339
00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:44,320
Speaker 1: Is a serious, high stakes legal disagreement. There is so

340
00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:48,199
Speaker 1: much money on the line, not even counting celebrity, and

341
00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:50,639
Speaker 1: the fact that on one side of this argument we

342
00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:54,520
Speaker 1: have some of the most powerful musicians in the world.

343
00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:58,879
Speaker 1: The thing is they weren't operating in the same businesses,

344
00:19:59,040 --> 00:19:59,560
Speaker 1: not really.

345
00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:00,360
Speaker 2: Yeah.

346
00:20:00,359 --> 00:20:03,600
Speaker 3: Well, although apple Core did set out to have a

347
00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:07,240
Speaker 3: technology wing, as we know, Magic Martis screwed that all

348
00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:10,320
Speaker 3: the heck, and so that wasn't really a thing anymore.

349
00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:12,840
Speaker 3: None of that business was viable. They were not operating

350
00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:14,959
Speaker 3: in that space. The only remaining viable part of that

351
00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:19,320
Speaker 3: business was the music being released on Apple Records. So

352
00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:23,400
Speaker 3: that is kind of becomes the rub here, right, because

353
00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:27,800
Speaker 3: the question then becomes what is technology? You know, what

354
00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:30,960
Speaker 3: is music technology? And where does the crossover between these

355
00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:32,520
Speaker 3: two business exist?

356
00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:35,720
Speaker 2: And that's the question that gets litigated for quite a while.

357
00:20:36,280 --> 00:20:39,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it goes all the way up to nineteen

358
00:20:40,119 --> 00:20:44,920
Speaker 1: eighty one, and they eventually, these two giants, right because

359
00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:48,000
Speaker 1: Apple Computers is growing year over year at this point,

360
00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:55,840
Speaker 1: they eventually settle and they say, look, let's demarcate everybody's

361
00:20:55,880 --> 00:21:00,480
Speaker 1: respective turf. You are Apple Core, you do Apple Records.

362
00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:04,880
Speaker 1: We promise you, guys, we super duper pinky swear that

363
00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:08,159
Speaker 1: we are not going to enter into the music business.

364
00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:12,679
Speaker 1: So long as you guys promise us super duper pinky

365
00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:16,239
Speaker 1: style that you are not going to enter into the computers, like,

366
00:21:16,359 --> 00:21:19,480
Speaker 1: don't try to build computers. We won't make a record label.

367
00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:22,560
Speaker 1: Good game, exactly.

368
00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:25,040
Speaker 3: You know, as long as you're not putting stuff out

369
00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:28,639
Speaker 3: into the music space, then we are not going to

370
00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:32,040
Speaker 3: put stuff out into the technology space. Never the twain

371
00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:36,200
Speaker 3: shall meet. At this point, it seems relatively cut and dry.

372
00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:39,680
Speaker 3: You know, we don't make records, you don't make computers.

373
00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:43,080
Speaker 3: But the problem is that within the idea of making computers,

374
00:21:43,119 --> 00:21:45,359
Speaker 3: what we know is where the real money is is

375
00:21:45,359 --> 00:21:50,359
Speaker 3: in the software. And as technology improves, more things become

376
00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:53,959
Speaker 3: possible within the operating system and the software of an

377
00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:58,240
Speaker 3: Apple Macintosh computer, and that eventually does start to dip

378
00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:01,480
Speaker 3: its toes into the music space, even before things like

379
00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:02,640
Speaker 3: iTunes in the iPod.

380
00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:05,719
Speaker 2: What happens first, that's right, that's right. I love this.

381
00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:08,439
Speaker 1: Can we get a sound cue? Can we introduce you

382
00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:14,280
Speaker 1: to the Musical Instrument Digital Interface aka street name the MIDI.

383
00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:21,960
Speaker 3: MIDI is so fascinating because it was a it's a

384
00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:26,680
Speaker 3: computer standard, or really just a digit electronic standard. It's

385
00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:30,119
Speaker 3: a particular type of jack connection that has a certain

386
00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:34,200
Speaker 3: number of pins that can pass what's called CC information

387
00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:39,880
Speaker 3: or control change information through from a computer like a

388
00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:43,359
Speaker 3: Apple Macintosh, or a sequencer, which might be a standalone

389
00:22:43,359 --> 00:22:46,640
Speaker 3: device that can send information to it through a standardized

390
00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:49,680
Speaker 3: connection into hardware synthesizers of the time.

391
00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:50,600
Speaker 2: And you can.

392
00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:55,760
Speaker 3: Literally program those synthesizers to do things from a remote place,

393
00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:57,639
Speaker 3: you know, from a remote piece of equipment, and you

394
00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:00,159
Speaker 3: can have multiple of them connected. And the thing I

395
00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:02,000
Speaker 3: think is so neat about MIDI is that to this

396
00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:07,440
Speaker 3: day it hasn't changed. Like you still buy interfaces, recording

397
00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:10,160
Speaker 3: interfaces or mini controllers what they call them. They literally

398
00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:12,159
Speaker 3: call them that that have the same exact connection that

399
00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:14,399
Speaker 3: can connect up to a synthesizer that came out in

400
00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:14,959
Speaker 3: the eighties.

401
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:19,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, well said, and this is you know, instantly, I

402
00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:21,359
Speaker 1: think a lot of us playing along at home felt

403
00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:24,879
Speaker 1: that felt that pool of nostalgia MIDI stuff is just

404
00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:27,560
Speaker 1: so cool. I love hearing it. It's fun, you know.

405
00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:30,359
Speaker 1: I also like a lot of hip hop that leverages MIDI.

406
00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:34,040
Speaker 1: Just to be honest, it's a banger, But you're right,

407
00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:39,480
Speaker 1: You're absolutely right. Now, the overlap there, the implacable pace

408
00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:46,080
Speaker 1: of technological innovation, it led into again some overstepping of turf,

409
00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:49,320
Speaker 1: at least in the opinion of the Beatles Apple Core.

410
00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:53,879
Speaker 1: So they come back post MIDI and as this technology

411
00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:57,800
Speaker 1: is spreading throughout the world and throughout Apple Computers, and

412
00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:04,159
Speaker 1: the Beatles crew says, look, the sound capabilities of the Macintosh,

413
00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:07,600
Speaker 1: just the fact that the noises it can make, they

414
00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:11,640
Speaker 1: are a breach of our earlier agreement. We can't believe you, guys,

415
00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:15,040
Speaker 1: Pinky promised and then did us this way, so fast forward,

416
00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:19,720
Speaker 1: it's this is nineteen ninety one at this point, and Noel,

417
00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:22,160
Speaker 1: as you pointed out, the case goes all the way

418
00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:25,720
Speaker 1: to the High Court in London and they're like.

419
00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:27,920
Speaker 2: The supreme court of that part of the world.

420
00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:32,520
Speaker 1: Correct, well yeah, yeah, yeah, And they're they're grappling with

421
00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:36,280
Speaker 1: this question that we that we sort of played with

422
00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:40,200
Speaker 1: just a few seconds ago. They have to ask if

423
00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:44,560
Speaker 1: this really is a violation of that nineteen eighty one settlement.

424
00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:48,959
Speaker 3: One hundred percent because of the fact that now Apple

425
00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:53,120
Speaker 3: Computers was doing stuff in their operating system, in their

426
00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:58,360
Speaker 3: software that made these computers capable of interfacing with musical

427
00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:03,359
Speaker 3: devices musical equipm. Technically they were in violation of I

428
00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:06,080
Speaker 3: don't know, some aspect of that agreement. It's really weird

429
00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:09,439
Speaker 3: and convoluted because they certainly weren't putting out music and

430
00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:13,639
Speaker 3: selling music products. So it's really a tough thing, and

431
00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:16,800
Speaker 3: I understand why it made it so far in the

432
00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:21,440
Speaker 3: court systems. Yeah, yeah, because it really it really comes

433
00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:24,399
Speaker 3: down to some I hate to say it, but a

434
00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:26,800
Speaker 3: little bit of hair splitting and a little bit of

435
00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:38,920
Speaker 3: philosophy and perspective. Ultimately, the court says, all right, Apple

436
00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:43,280
Speaker 3: computers are not purposely out to drink your proverbial milkshake.

437
00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:49,080
Speaker 3: The primary function of the Macintosh is to process data. Now,

438
00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:53,120
Speaker 3: can people use that to make music, sure, but they

439
00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:56,560
Speaker 3: can also use it however they wish as the end user.

440
00:25:56,720 --> 00:26:00,760
Speaker 3: Apple is not making people create any kind of music,

441
00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:04,399
Speaker 3: and they're not even really marketing it in that way,

442
00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:04,919
Speaker 3: you know.

443
00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:05,280
Speaker 2: I Mean.

444
00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:07,720
Speaker 3: It's just the thing about technology that's so interesting is

445
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:12,359
Speaker 3: it is inevitably going to evolve to do things that

446
00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:15,320
Speaker 3: other things have held the market on, you know what

447
00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:17,920
Speaker 3: I mean, Like even with like AI, now so much

448
00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:21,920
Speaker 3: of the debate around that technology. This is not that different.

449
00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:24,760
Speaker 3: It's just a different time. Where like when synthesizers first

450
00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:26,480
Speaker 3: came out, people were afraid they were going to take

451
00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:29,199
Speaker 3: the jobs of musicians, you know, because it was like

452
00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:30,360
Speaker 3: a robo orchestra.

453
00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:31,960
Speaker 2: That didn't end up being the case.

454
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:34,440
Speaker 3: But a similar thing the debate is happening around AI

455
00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:37,679
Speaker 3: about the jobs that it could displace. But when you

456
00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:40,240
Speaker 3: start to kind of like try to nail down what

457
00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:42,960
Speaker 3: is a computer capable of what does it do? That

458
00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:46,080
Speaker 3: question becomes kind of moot because it can do all

459
00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:48,280
Speaker 3: kinds of things. It can do whatever you program it

460
00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:51,320
Speaker 3: to do. It's not inherently one thing. It can be

461
00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:54,119
Speaker 3: many things to many people and professions. And you know

462
00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:56,160
Speaker 3: sectors right right.

463
00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:59,320
Speaker 1: It's sort of like let's say you sell Swiss army knives,

464
00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:03,600
Speaker 1: unctional tools, a leatherman for instance, right, and then somebody

465
00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:07,560
Speaker 1: else comes to you and says, hey, we agreed that.

466
00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:11,760
Speaker 1: A scissors company comes to you and says we agreed

467
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:14,640
Speaker 1: that we're the ones in charge of scissors, and then

468
00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:18,240
Speaker 1: you have to say, well, people can cut things with

469
00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:20,840
Speaker 1: a knife, you know what I mean, Like, how is that?

470
00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:24,600
Speaker 1: How is that on? Like how is that my responsibility.

471
00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:26,960
Speaker 1: You know this, This does seem like a.

472
00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:30,919
Speaker 3: Stretch, well exactly, and that's why you can't copyright or

473
00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:36,040
Speaker 3: trademark technology as ancient and you know basic as a

474
00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:37,600
Speaker 3: knife or a screw.

475
00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:39,160
Speaker 2: Right, it is a tool.

476
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:42,000
Speaker 3: You can have different types of ones, and maybe you

477
00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:44,840
Speaker 3: have like a multipurpose device like a Swiss army knife,

478
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:48,000
Speaker 3: and you're trademarking the look of it and the design

479
00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:48,440
Speaker 3: of it.

480
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:51,240
Speaker 2: But no one can say I own the knife, you know,

481
00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:53,360
Speaker 2: or I own the nail. Right.

482
00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:57,879
Speaker 1: You can say you own a specific production method or

483
00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:01,440
Speaker 1: manufacturing approach to a kind of knife, but you can't

484
00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:04,159
Speaker 1: be like, I'm the King of knives, which would be

485
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:06,880
Speaker 1: funny but also pretty creepy if you meet someone who

486
00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:09,160
Speaker 1: calls themselves the king of knives.

487
00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:12,240
Speaker 3: We suggest that you know, there's a King of knives

488
00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:15,639
Speaker 3: somewhere in Muskogee, Wisconsin or something.

489
00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:16,959
Speaker 2: He's got TV commercials.

490
00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:19,679
Speaker 5: I'm them the knife king, you know, I do like

491
00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:22,199
Speaker 5: come to my knife palace.

492
00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:26,000
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, I love a sharp customer.

493
00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:31,719
Speaker 1: Oh geez, oh yeah no, so okay, we do know

494
00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:35,280
Speaker 1: that Apple computers still had a bit of a cheeky

495
00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:39,600
Speaker 1: sense of humor. Here they're nineteen ninety one operating software

496
00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:43,560
Speaker 1: has a sound file audit called We'll spell it for

497
00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:46,440
Speaker 1: you first, s O s U M I.

498
00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:50,880
Speaker 2: How would you pronounce that? So Sumi.

499
00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:56,400
Speaker 3: It's like a tiny orange right now, that's just satsuma.

500
00:28:56,960 --> 00:29:00,400
Speaker 3: Wait a minute, is this a cheeky little joke? Yeah,

501
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:02,120
Speaker 3: lawyer jokes.

502
00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:03,880
Speaker 2: Assume me just do it.

503
00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:06,280
Speaker 1: And they could get away with it if they're doing

504
00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:09,200
Speaker 1: hair splitting legal eese, because they can say, oh, it's

505
00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:13,000
Speaker 1: just an inspiring name, and we double check to make

506
00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:15,960
Speaker 1: sure you don't own the way that's spelled. Why are

507
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:19,960
Speaker 1: you guys mad? So it's it's a it's a prank war,

508
00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:23,960
Speaker 1: you know, and this is just like, it's a great story.

509
00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:28,520
Speaker 1: But we do know that they can't leave it as is, right,

510
00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:31,840
Speaker 1: so they have to figure out a sort of second covenant,

511
00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:33,880
Speaker 1: a second pinky swear settlement.

512
00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:37,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, and this agreement, while acknowledging the changing dynamics of

513
00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:41,320
Speaker 3: a computers were capable of, it did kind of broaden

514
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:43,640
Speaker 3: the language a little bit, and it said that Apple

515
00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:47,240
Speaker 3: computers could use that logo for computers, data processing, telecommunications,

516
00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:52,440
Speaker 3: but excluded music products, which is super weird because again,

517
00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:56,120
Speaker 3: it can be a music product given someone writing code

518
00:29:56,320 --> 00:29:58,480
Speaker 3: that would allow it to do that, or creating some

519
00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:00,280
Speaker 3: sort of peripheral that it would allow to do that,

520
00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:02,160
Speaker 3: some sort of device that could be connected to it.

521
00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:03,800
Speaker 3: This was never gonna last.

522
00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:04,960
Speaker 2: Yeah.

523
00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:07,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is at best a band aid and it

524
00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:11,719
Speaker 1: feels like everybody had to know that going in so

525
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:16,680
Speaker 1: while they're trying to make friends and calm the waters,

526
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:21,880
Speaker 1: as it were, Apple computers. According to reports, they pay

527
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:24,960
Speaker 1: off Apple Core. They give them about twenty six point

528
00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:29,160
Speaker 1: five million US dollars and then they say to your point, no, look,

529
00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:35,160
Speaker 1: we're not going to sell quote physical music materials. However,

530
00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:40,280
Speaker 1: ssume me is still a system alert sound on this

531
00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:40,960
Speaker 1: day on.

532
00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:42,440
Speaker 2: Max Yeah, carried in there.

533
00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:44,920
Speaker 3: It's not used, but I think it's like a as

534
00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:47,880
Speaker 3: they update the system software over time, some of the

535
00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:50,240
Speaker 3: old things stick around, almost like as like a little

536
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:52,360
Speaker 3: nod to their past. And I think if you look

537
00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:54,440
Speaker 3: in that folder where all the systems sound effects are,

538
00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:55,600
Speaker 3: you'll still find sasumi.

539
00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:59,719
Speaker 1: Yeah. And this is the work of a employee from

540
00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:02,920
Speaker 1: Apple called Jim Reeks, called that because it's his name.

541
00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:03,400
Speaker 5: Uh.

542
00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:07,360
Speaker 1: He created the sound alerts on Apple System seven and

543
00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:11,360
Speaker 1: he originally wanted to uh. He originally wanted to name

544
00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:13,600
Speaker 1: that alert let it beep.

545
00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:16,920
Speaker 2: It's good. That's good, So assume he's better.

546
00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:20,160
Speaker 3: Though, it's so much more cheeky and like underhanded, you know,

547
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:22,520
Speaker 3: let it Beep is almost showing your hand too much.

548
00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:27,080
Speaker 3: And he realized that, knowing that it probably wouldn't pass

549
00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:27,840
Speaker 3: legal muster.

550
00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:32,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so he went with Sosumi. And then he

551
00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:35,880
Speaker 1: did exactly what we were describing earlier. He's like, oh, no,

552
00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:38,280
Speaker 1: it's just a name that sounds kind of Japanese. It

553
00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:42,360
Speaker 1: has nothing to do with music. You guys are being weird, Yeah, exactly.

554
00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:47,160
Speaker 5: Oh it's so funny, yes, sir, oh man, that's so

555
00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:49,560
Speaker 5: fun So we've been hinting at all the while, like

556
00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:54,240
Speaker 5: like Apple, you know, the record company, the Beatles organization.

557
00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:57,440
Speaker 2: Clearly very sensitive about this.

558
00:31:57,040 --> 00:31:59,680
Speaker 3: This idea of Apple computers, you know, being in the

559
00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:02,800
Speaker 3: music business, and it seems like for the most part,

560
00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:05,400
Speaker 3: they arrived at an agreement that was more along the

561
00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:09,080
Speaker 3: lines of, you guys can't do record label stuff, right,

562
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:11,640
Speaker 3: that's our thing. You know, we're gonna let the MIDI

563
00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:15,800
Speaker 3: stuff slide, you know whatever. We understand the changing landscape

564
00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:17,880
Speaker 3: of technology and all that, but you guys can't.

565
00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:22,000
Speaker 2: Distribute and put out recorded music.

566
00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:26,000
Speaker 3: When did that change, y'all? I think we can, I

567
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:27,240
Speaker 3: think we can conjecture.

568
00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:28,080
Speaker 5: Yeah.

569
00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:28,560
Speaker 2: Yeah.

570
00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:32,080
Speaker 1: Also, of course you can't make an Apple clarinet or whatever.

571
00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:33,760
Speaker 1: That would be a bridge too far. That's a CD

572
00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:37,320
Speaker 1: called music product. But as you said, the seescape changes

573
00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:40,160
Speaker 1: the tide shift once again. It's two thousand and three.

574
00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:44,600
Speaker 1: Apple Computer goes to the world at large and says, hey,

575
00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:48,360
Speaker 1: we have this idea for a thing called iTunes. Now

576
00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:52,760
Speaker 1: you can go to you macadherens. You can go to

577
00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:57,960
Speaker 1: the iTunes music store. You can buy individual songs or tracks,

578
00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:01,760
Speaker 1: and you can copy it on to your iPod. It's

579
00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:04,760
Speaker 1: the new walkman. You can take it with you wherever

580
00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:05,840
Speaker 1: you want to go.

581
00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:09,240
Speaker 3: This isn't just a clever idea, Ben, This changes everything

582
00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:12,160
Speaker 3: every I mean, right now where we sit in twenty

583
00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:15,840
Speaker 3: twenty five, the debate about like how much artists are

584
00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:19,000
Speaker 3: making has nothing to do with record sales anymore, has

585
00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:21,760
Speaker 3: to do with streams. Everybody you know knows that I'm

586
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:25,640
Speaker 3: stating the obvious, But like Apple were the first ones

587
00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:28,520
Speaker 3: to have the clout to kind of push this stuff

588
00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:30,680
Speaker 3: out in the world, and then they released a piece

589
00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:33,600
Speaker 3: of hardware in the iPod that you also had to

590
00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:35,720
Speaker 3: have to play in this ecosystem.

591
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:36,480
Speaker 2: Mm hmmm.

592
00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:39,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, they built the sandbox, right, so you have to

593
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:43,320
Speaker 1: if you're a musician, you have to play the game

594
00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:47,640
Speaker 1: with Apple and iTunes. Apple Core is still around in

595
00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:50,400
Speaker 1: two thousand and three, and they are super not happy

596
00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:53,080
Speaker 1: about this. They sue Apple Computer again.

597
00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:56,880
Speaker 3: Understandably at this point, man, I'm kind of in the

598
00:33:56,880 --> 00:34:00,360
Speaker 3: Apple records or apple Core camp. I mean, this is

599
00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:05,080
Speaker 3: clearly Apple Computers taking a big swing. Somebody had to

600
00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:09,480
Speaker 3: know in their legal department they were testing this also

601
00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:12,400
Speaker 3: knowing that at this point Apple Core is just not

602
00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:15,800
Speaker 3: as powerful an entity as they are, they can afford

603
00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:18,799
Speaker 3: to fight this in court, and they do big time.

604
00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:21,160
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, for years.

605
00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:25,880
Speaker 1: It's not until two thousand and seven that the respective

606
00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:32,120
Speaker 1: apples reach a confidential settlement. We don't know exactly what

607
00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:35,520
Speaker 1: they came to terms on, but if you read the

608
00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:40,240
Speaker 1: scuttle butt, you'll see strong hints that Apple the computer company,

609
00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:45,760
Speaker 1: yet again paid apple Core, the record company. They said,

610
00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:47,640
Speaker 1: let us just buy the trademark.

611
00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:51,759
Speaker 3: They cut the legs out from apple Core entirely though, Man,

612
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:55,279
Speaker 3: you think about that like that. Now Apple Core has

613
00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:58,799
Speaker 3: to license the use of that name and that trademark

614
00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:01,479
Speaker 3: back from Apple record. It's not to say they didn't,

615
00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:04,320
Speaker 3: of course, get a gajillion dollars, but if I'm not mistaken,

616
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:06,960
Speaker 3: the first example of this out in the world was

617
00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:11,560
Speaker 3: Beatles Rock Band, which was a video game where you

618
00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:14,240
Speaker 3: could play Beatles songs for the first time and sing

619
00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:16,759
Speaker 3: and all that stuff. Guitar hero but with you could

620
00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:18,960
Speaker 3: also play bass and drums. You guys know what this is.

621
00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:24,000
Speaker 3: And it appeared in the documentation for that game Beatles,

622
00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:28,440
Speaker 3: you know, Apple Core with under exclusive license from Apple

623
00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:29,799
Speaker 3: Computers more or less.

624
00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:31,440
Speaker 2: And I might not be getting that quite right, but

625
00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:32,520
Speaker 2: it's along those lines.

626
00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:35,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And this is this is where we go

627
00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:38,960
Speaker 1: to at Liss Records. There's a great article you found

628
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:44,399
Speaker 1: from an author calling themselves Patty, and this breaks down

629
00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:47,239
Speaker 1: the battle of the Apples. And they put it this way.

630
00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:50,880
Speaker 1: They say, it's not merely a legal saga. It is

631
00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:54,680
Speaker 1: quote a symphony that echoes the evolution of technology and

632
00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:57,200
Speaker 1: the music industry, which I think is a beautiful piece

633
00:35:57,200 --> 00:35:57,640
Speaker 1: of writing.

634
00:35:58,040 --> 00:36:02,399
Speaker 3: Oh, absolutely very well put. And can I also say

635
00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:04,160
Speaker 3: that I just think this is another really good quote

636
00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:06,839
Speaker 3: from the Atlas records piece the question and one we've

637
00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:10,000
Speaker 3: been asking that's post very eloquently here. The question of

638
00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:13,920
Speaker 3: where one company's territory ends and another's begins is a

639
00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:18,800
Speaker 3: perpetual challenge in industries marked by rapid innovation. The Beatles

640
00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:22,240
Speaker 3: and related acts music finally made its way to digital

641
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:24,839
Speaker 3: music stores, including iTunes in twenty ten.

642
00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:27,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, and this is so here's what's amazing. Here's why

643
00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:30,720
Speaker 1: I love this story so much. It is a story

644
00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:34,520
Speaker 1: that is only going to grow more important in precedent

645
00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:38,760
Speaker 1: as time goes on, as technology continues to evolve.

646
00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:41,960
Speaker 3: One hundred percent, the Beatles' music is as important and

647
00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:46,080
Speaker 3: iconic today as it ever has been, if not more so.

648
00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:50,480
Speaker 3: I mean, so many artists came from influenced by the Beatles,

649
00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:56,279
Speaker 3: you know, music, recording technology, innovations, recording production techniques. I

650
00:36:56,320 --> 00:36:58,640
Speaker 3: mean so much of that stuff has the Beatles to

651
00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:01,520
Speaker 3: thank for it, and of course including their incredible producer

652
00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:04,440
Speaker 3: and really like the fifth Beatle, George Martin.

653
00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:07,200
Speaker 2: So it's important in this case. Really.

654
00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:10,239
Speaker 3: A trademarquia dot com article points out it highlights the

655
00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:13,839
Speaker 3: importance of trademarks. There are values as intellectual property and

656
00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:17,120
Speaker 3: the necessity of protecting them.

657
00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:20,200
Speaker 1: And with this speaking of thanking people, thank you, fellow

658
00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:24,640
Speaker 1: Ridiculous Historians for joining us for today's episode. Thanks also

659
00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:27,280
Speaker 1: to our super producer, mister Max Williams.

660
00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:30,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, thanks to Alex Williams who composed our theme and

661
00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:33,280
Speaker 3: Christopher Hasiotis and eaves Jeff Coates here in spirit.

662
00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:36,960
Speaker 1: Thanks to the rude dudes over a Ridiculous Crib. If

663
00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:40,280
Speaker 1: you dig this show, you'll love theirs and Noel, thank

664
00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:44,440
Speaker 1: you as always, and thanks for being our research associated

665
00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:45,000
Speaker 1: on this woman.

666
00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:45,919
Speaker 2: It was a lot of fun.

667
00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:48,560
Speaker 3: It was super a lot of fun, and there'll be

668
00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:51,000
Speaker 3: will be more. I love doing stuff in the music space,

669
00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:52,520
Speaker 3: and I think we're going to see more of that

670
00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:54,319
Speaker 3: stuff coming from me in the future. But thanks for

671
00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:58,280
Speaker 3: taking this journey together, Ben, and also of course Max.

672
00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:06,879
Speaker 2: We'll see you next time, folks.

673
00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:10,680
Speaker 3: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

674
00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:12,920
Speaker 3: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.