WEBVTT - Sophia Roe 0:00:01.920 --> 0:00:04.720 I have to tell you my mother. My mother was 0:00:04.760 --> 0:00:07.200 a great cook, and she used to go, your elbow 0:00:07.280 --> 0:00:08.680 taste good if you're deep fried. 0:00:08.440 --> 0:00:10.920 It, see's right. 0:00:11.119 --> 0:00:13.480 So now we go when we're like at anywhere where 0:00:13.480 --> 0:00:15.880 it's shit food, when it's deep fried and we're all 0:00:15.880 --> 0:00:17.880 eating it, we're like deep fried elbow. 0:00:19.000 --> 0:00:22.320 That's true. Now when all fails, you just drop into 0:00:22.320 --> 0:00:24.520 deep fryer and it's all going to be fine. 0:00:25.320 --> 0:00:29.960 Hello, I'm mini driver. I've always loved Preust's questionnaire. It 0:00:30.080 --> 0:00:34.280 was originally in nineteenth century parlor game where players would 0:00:34.280 --> 0:00:38.040 ask each other thirty five questions aimed at revealing. 0:00:37.560 --> 0:00:39.000 The other player's true nature. 0:00:39.880 --> 0:00:42.800 In asking different people the same set of questions, you 0:00:42.840 --> 0:00:46.200 can make observations about which truths appear to be universal. 0:00:46.400 --> 0:00:49.240 And it made me wonder, what if these questions were 0:00:49.280 --> 0:00:51.920 just the jumping off point, what greater depths would be 0:00:52.000 --> 0:00:56.040 revealed if I asked these questions as conversation starters. So 0:00:56.240 --> 0:00:58.920 I adapted Prus' questionnaire and I wrote my own seven 0:00:59.000 --> 0:01:02.360 questions that I personally think are pertinent to a person's story. 0:01:02.640 --> 0:01:04.880 They are when and where were you happiest? 0:01:05.319 --> 0:01:08.880 What is the quality you like least about yourself? What relationship, 0:01:09.000 --> 0:01:11.319 real or fictionalized, defines. 0:01:11.000 --> 0:01:11.440 Love for you? 0:01:11.959 --> 0:01:15.600 What question would you most like answered, What person, place, 0:01:15.760 --> 0:01:18.600 or experience has shaped you the most? What would be 0:01:18.640 --> 0:01:21.240 your last meal? And can you tell me something in 0:01:21.280 --> 0:01:24.920 your life that's grown out of a personal disaster? And 0:01:24.959 --> 0:01:29.440 I've gathered a group of really remarkable people, ones that 0:01:29.520 --> 0:01:32.000 I am honored and humbled to have had the chance 0:01:32.040 --> 0:01:34.640 to engage with. You may not hear their answers to 0:01:34.720 --> 0:01:38.039 all seven of these questions. We've whittled it down to 0:01:38.280 --> 0:01:42.440 which questions felt closest to their experience or the most surprising, 0:01:42.840 --> 0:01:45.440 or created the most fertile. 0:01:45.080 --> 0:01:50.360 Ground to connect. My guest today is the James Beard 0:01:50.400 --> 0:01:54.640 Award winning chef, writer, and TV host Sophia Row. Sophia 0:01:54.720 --> 0:01:58.160 produced and hosted the Emmy nominated show Counterspace, where she 0:01:58.240 --> 0:02:01.240 used food to explore a changing world world. She won 0:02:01.280 --> 0:02:03.880 the James Beard Award as an Emerging Voice in Broadcast 0:02:03.920 --> 0:02:06.240 Media and was notably the first black woman to be 0:02:06.320 --> 0:02:10.760 nominated in that category. Her main mission is to demonstrate 0:02:10.840 --> 0:02:14.400 how food is both political and artistic. She grew up 0:02:14.440 --> 0:02:18.000 with food insecurity when she was a child. She's really 0:02:18.040 --> 0:02:22.120 passionate about and really adept at raising awareness about people 0:02:22.120 --> 0:02:24.800 who are going hungry. Sophia currently lives in New York 0:02:24.840 --> 0:02:29.800 and works out of this extraordinary culinary studio called Apartment Miso, 0:02:29.880 --> 0:02:33.720 where she cooks, makes films, and develops recipes. Her food 0:02:33.760 --> 0:02:37.440 is playful, creative, and visually beautiful, and it was an 0:02:37.520 --> 0:02:42.480 absolute pleasure to talk to her. I'm really so happy 0:02:42.680 --> 0:02:45.880 to meet you and so happy to talk about food 0:02:45.960 --> 0:02:49.799 with you, and thank you for coming on first and foremost. 0:02:49.639 --> 0:02:52.760 Of course even of course, are you kiddie? This is like, 0:02:53.080 --> 0:02:55.720 this is the best part of my month. So trust 0:02:55.760 --> 0:02:58.320 I'm thrilled to be here. This is great, so nice 0:02:58.320 --> 0:02:58.919 to talk to you. 0:02:59.240 --> 0:03:01.680 So nice as you are you currently in Brooklyn? Are 0:03:01.720 --> 0:03:03.079 you in your famous apartment? 0:03:03.480 --> 0:03:06.160 So I'm in my apartment. But it's interesting A lot 0:03:06.200 --> 0:03:08.120 of people don't know this, but my food content is 0:03:08.160 --> 0:03:10.640 not shot in my physical home. I have a studio. 0:03:10.720 --> 0:03:13.840 I have a culinary studio, so I keep it all separate, 0:03:14.280 --> 0:03:15.320 mostly for my sanity. 0:03:15.440 --> 0:03:16.320 That's very smart. 0:03:16.440 --> 0:03:18.880 No, that's like my office. And I think a lot 0:03:18.880 --> 0:03:21.040 of people have offices, but like in my office, I 0:03:21.080 --> 0:03:24.160 cook in my office. So my studio is in an 0:03:24.200 --> 0:03:27.559 area of Brooklyn called Bushwick, and I live in Williamsburg, 0:03:27.880 --> 0:03:31.200 so I mean fifteen minutes. I could walk to my studio. 0:03:31.240 --> 0:03:32.480 I could take the train, I could take a bike, 0:03:32.480 --> 0:03:35.000 I could drive. It's so close. But I try to 0:03:35.120 --> 0:03:38.840 keep my actual home very much just for me. I 0:03:38.880 --> 0:03:40.839 do cook a lot in here, but everything you see 0:03:40.840 --> 0:03:44.880 on the internet happens in my studio. 0:03:46.440 --> 0:03:49.600 What quality do you like least about yourself? 0:03:50.360 --> 0:03:54.520 Oh, I'm so critical. I want so so desperately to 0:03:54.560 --> 0:03:57.080 be less. So I want to be less of a 0:03:57.080 --> 0:04:00.760 perfectionist so much. I don't want to sit on concepts 0:04:00.800 --> 0:04:04.360 or ideas for years because they're not perfect yet. I 0:04:04.400 --> 0:04:06.200 just want to get it out there because I feel 0:04:06.240 --> 0:04:10.080 like what's behind those ideas are just better ideas, So 0:04:10.160 --> 0:04:14.280 I just need to push them out. Resist this consistent 0:04:14.480 --> 0:04:18.359 temptation to just like tw tweak tweak, tweak, tweak, and 0:04:18.520 --> 0:04:21.200 just know and trust that this is amazing, this is great, 0:04:21.200 --> 0:04:22.560 and it's not going to be your only great thing. 0:04:22.600 --> 0:04:24.160 There's going to be a million other great things. 0:04:24.520 --> 0:04:27.480 I just wrote that down. What's behind the ideas are 0:04:27.480 --> 0:04:30.680 better ideas. I could take that to be super positive, 0:04:30.800 --> 0:04:33.560 or I could take that to also be super hypocritical. 0:04:33.600 --> 0:04:37.080 I think that's a very creative person's quandary because you 0:04:37.120 --> 0:04:39.640 really can argue it both ways. It's difficult to know 0:04:39.720 --> 0:04:42.159 when to say when and go na, na, No, we've 0:04:42.200 --> 0:04:44.240 arrived at a good iteration of this. I need to 0:04:44.279 --> 0:04:48.320 commit to that and not keep probing or questioning. 0:04:48.279 --> 0:04:51.200 Yes, because what can happen is you can confuse yourself 0:04:51.200 --> 0:04:53.640 and make it feel like, oh, I'm just reevaluating. But 0:04:53.680 --> 0:04:56.119 before you know it, the thing that you're that's so great, 0:04:56.160 --> 0:05:00.000 that's so beautiful, just becomes something else. So at what point, 0:05:00.240 --> 0:05:02.040 like instead of turning it into something else, let's put 0:05:02.080 --> 0:05:04.320 it out and then work on something else. And so 0:05:04.440 --> 0:05:06.480 I'm always trying to kind of I don't want to 0:05:06.480 --> 0:05:10.400 say pull back, just step back, like for what this is, 0:05:10.520 --> 0:05:13.360 this is great, and this other thing that you want 0:05:13.400 --> 0:05:15.679 to change about it, Let's just create something new after 0:05:15.720 --> 0:05:17.719 we put this out. Let's just put this out and 0:05:17.760 --> 0:05:20.240 then like make a new project. Like us chefs get 0:05:20.320 --> 0:05:21.880 kind of wrapped up and like we want to do 0:05:21.960 --> 0:05:24.599 all the ideas that we have at once, because there's 0:05:24.640 --> 0:05:27.000 so many ideas, and I think it's really important to 0:05:27.040 --> 0:05:30.359 remember that that's what new projects are for, exactly, you know, 0:05:30.600 --> 0:05:32.840 other ideas and other moments. 0:05:32.800 --> 0:05:36.679 When you feel that you are being hypocritical of yourself 0:05:36.760 --> 0:05:38.839 or your work. Do you have like a ritual or 0:05:38.839 --> 0:05:41.320 a protocol that will help you get out of that? Oh? 0:05:41.440 --> 0:05:44.160 Yeah, there's things I say to myself, like, Sophia, we're 0:05:44.160 --> 0:05:46.479 going to stop here. This is me loving you, like 0:05:46.600 --> 0:05:49.960 loving myself, like me loving myself right now is like 0:05:50.080 --> 0:05:52.240 we're actually just going to put this away. Oh what 0:05:52.360 --> 0:05:56.000 a terrible joy it is to be in a situation 0:05:56.080 --> 0:05:58.840 where you feel like you need to just like keep 0:05:58.880 --> 0:06:01.719 shifting it. This is it's like not even a real problem. 0:06:01.800 --> 0:06:03.479 This is not a real problem. You're taking a really 0:06:03.480 --> 0:06:05.719 great thing and asking yourself how you can make it better? 0:06:05.839 --> 0:06:10.200 Why is that important? Why is better important? In this moment? Right? 0:06:10.240 --> 0:06:13.800 This is already great, you know. And that always leads 0:06:13.839 --> 0:06:15.480 me to like, oh, you're trying to be perfect. 0:06:15.880 --> 0:06:17.520 Hmmm, that's interesting. 0:06:17.640 --> 0:06:20.279 You're trying to be perfect, and that's actually not what 0:06:20.360 --> 0:06:22.520 people are asking for, you know what I mean. No 0:06:22.520 --> 0:06:23.600 one's asking for perfect. 0:06:24.000 --> 0:06:28.000 Appslutely, that's a very good thing to remember. No one 0:06:28.040 --> 0:06:31.400 is asking for perfect. Okay, I'm now I'm writing that 0:06:31.440 --> 0:06:34.200 down to That would make my day so much easier 0:06:34.320 --> 0:06:37.360 and shorter. If I could do that, I'm literally going 0:06:37.440 --> 0:06:39.039 to put that on a tent card on my desk. 0:06:39.200 --> 0:06:41.400 No one is asking for perfect and because it's like 0:06:41.600 --> 0:06:44.880 but oh yeah, no they're not. No one's asking for it. 0:06:50.480 --> 0:06:52.080 Where and when were you happiest? 0:06:52.960 --> 0:06:55.359 For the time I read that question, where and when 0:06:55.480 --> 0:06:59.919 was I happiest? I'm like happy recently happy in my life. 0:07:00.080 --> 0:07:03.280 Happy is also a thing I'm consistently chasing what that 0:07:03.320 --> 0:07:06.200 feels like. I think I'm probably the happiest one. I'm 0:07:06.279 --> 0:07:10.640 not really thinking about anybody else's opinion, Like, I think 0:07:10.720 --> 0:07:13.240 I'm probably the most happy when I wake up and 0:07:13.320 --> 0:07:15.440 I just decide what I'm going to do about my day, 0:07:15.560 --> 0:07:18.600 and I'm not worried about what my manager thinks I 0:07:18.600 --> 0:07:21.840 should be doing, or what a friend thinks I should 0:07:21.840 --> 0:07:23.760 be doing, or what a person around me thinks I 0:07:23.800 --> 0:07:26.000 should be doing. I'm most happy when I wake up 0:07:26.000 --> 0:07:27.720 and I have all the conviction in the world to 0:07:27.760 --> 0:07:30.000 just do exactly what I want to do. 0:07:30.560 --> 0:07:34.160 That's so interesting because what is excuse the pun, quite 0:07:34.160 --> 0:07:37.480 literally baked into what you do is the approbation of 0:07:37.520 --> 0:07:41.760 other people and them finding what you do quite literally delicious. 0:07:42.280 --> 0:07:45.520 So is that part of your personality. You find something 0:07:45.560 --> 0:07:47.760 like that kind of the hard iteration of something, but 0:07:47.840 --> 0:07:50.000 you lean into it by finding moments that you do 0:07:50.120 --> 0:07:52.120 just make yourself happy rather than everybody else. 0:07:52.440 --> 0:07:55.800 I mean, I think there's this deep need for me 0:07:55.920 --> 0:07:58.560 to make other people happy, but I wouldn't say that 0:07:58.560 --> 0:08:01.440 that's the thing that makes me happiest. You know, it 0:08:01.480 --> 0:08:03.640 makes me very happy to feed people. It makes me 0:08:03.800 --> 0:08:06.520 very happy to give people exactly what they want. I 0:08:06.560 --> 0:08:08.680 think I'm kind of like the anti chef in a 0:08:08.680 --> 0:08:10.640 lot of ways, Whereas like you go to a restaurant 0:08:10.680 --> 0:08:13.400 and the restaurant's very much like no substitutions, and this 0:08:13.480 --> 0:08:16.000 is chef's menu for me. I'm the kind of person 0:08:16.040 --> 0:08:17.720 who's like, I actually want to make what you want 0:08:17.760 --> 0:08:20.920 to eat, So like I'm down for substitutions, Like I'm 0:08:20.960 --> 0:08:24.160 down for someone to walk in and say, can we 0:08:24.200 --> 0:08:26.960 do this with no tomatoes? Like I really enjoy that 0:08:27.120 --> 0:08:30.720 about people. I enjoy people's preferences Like that makes me happy. 0:08:30.760 --> 0:08:33.240 But in that I'm kind of like doing what I want. 0:08:33.320 --> 0:08:36.200 But there's freedom in that, you know, to like try 0:08:36.240 --> 0:08:38.319 something new, Like actually, I've never made this the way 0:08:38.360 --> 0:08:41.160 this person wants it, so let me try that out, Like, 0:08:41.240 --> 0:08:44.160 that's fun. You know, I've never made sushi without fish before. 0:08:44.720 --> 0:08:45.600 Let's do that. 0:08:45.600 --> 0:08:48.560 That's cool, you know what I'm saying. I do. I 0:08:48.679 --> 0:08:50.480 like it because it's the same thing with a director, 0:08:50.559 --> 0:08:52.520 Like a director wants you to do something a certain way, 0:08:52.679 --> 0:08:54.600 and you can get all esteemed and I've spent months 0:08:54.600 --> 0:08:56.280 thinking about this and I want to do it this way, 0:08:56.600 --> 0:08:58.600 or you can kind of go, well, I got the 0:08:58.640 --> 0:09:02.120 bones of that, like that's there anyway, So trying it 0:09:02.160 --> 0:09:05.719 another way is invariably interesting. But you kind of have 0:09:05.800 --> 0:09:08.480 to consciously lean into that and not push up against it. 0:09:08.520 --> 0:09:10.160 And I do think a lot of actors and I 0:09:10.200 --> 0:09:11.880 think probably a lot of chefs that you said, they 0:09:11.960 --> 0:09:14.480 do push up against that notion of I don't want 0:09:14.480 --> 0:09:17.000 to do it another way. It's my way. But you're right, 0:09:17.040 --> 0:09:20.319 this freedom and happiness and letting go of that, I guess. 0:09:20.200 --> 0:09:22.439 I just when I think about waking up and kind 0:09:22.440 --> 0:09:25.959 of doing what I want to do, like really it's discovery, 0:09:26.200 --> 0:09:28.560 you know, Like I'm really into fried deserts right now, 0:09:28.960 --> 0:09:30.800 so I just want to go in my studio and 0:09:30.840 --> 0:09:33.320 just like do fried desserts and what will happen? Sort 0:09:33.320 --> 0:09:35.720 of by proxy is I'll end up in this place 0:09:35.800 --> 0:09:38.839 that is a really good place, and that's the editable place. 0:09:39.080 --> 0:09:41.720 I post something about funnel cake, and I get messages 0:09:41.720 --> 0:09:43.439 on like can we make this vegan? Can we make 0:09:43.440 --> 0:09:45.439 this with nuts? Can we do this with this kind 0:09:45.480 --> 0:09:45.920 of curd? 0:09:46.000 --> 0:09:46.200 You know? 0:09:46.240 --> 0:09:49.160 And then it becomes collaborative and it becomes free, and 0:09:49.200 --> 0:09:51.400 like that's another level of happy. But I think the 0:09:51.400 --> 0:09:53.760 core of the happiness is waking up and deciding on 0:09:54.080 --> 0:09:57.360 we're doing fried desserts. Like that's the juice that I 0:09:57.440 --> 0:09:59.720 need to get to instead of waking up and having 0:09:59.720 --> 0:10:02.640 per as. So much of my life is parameters. You know, 0:10:02.760 --> 0:10:05.400 so much is like feeding this many people, but you 0:10:05.400 --> 0:10:07.480 have this much heat, you have this much counter space, 0:10:07.520 --> 0:10:09.560 you have this much refrigeration. I just think it's nice 0:10:09.559 --> 0:10:11.079 to wake up and be like, you know what, I'm 0:10:11.080 --> 0:10:13.000 just gonna go in my space and like feel it out. 0:10:13.280 --> 0:10:14.960 Like that is a really happy place for me. 0:10:15.240 --> 0:10:17.520 I love that. I love that. I love that it's 0:10:17.600 --> 0:10:25.520 connected with what you do. This is a good question 0:10:25.600 --> 0:10:27.280 for you. What would be your last meal? 0:10:28.360 --> 0:10:32.200 So I know I was thinking about this. I'm like, 0:10:32.240 --> 0:10:34.880 is this a good question? Is this like the hardest question? Ever, Okay, 0:10:35.160 --> 0:10:37.600 I the best meal for me would be something so 0:10:38.000 --> 0:10:40.920 hearty and just so rich and something that sticks to 0:10:40.960 --> 0:10:42.720 my bones because I'm about to just not even be 0:10:42.720 --> 0:10:45.000 aware of my bones anymore. Like I just want to 0:10:45.000 --> 0:10:50.360 feel so stuffed. I want like a stew. I want 0:10:50.400 --> 0:10:52.719 something that's been in the oven for three days. I 0:10:52.760 --> 0:10:55.480 want like short rib falling off the bone. I want 0:10:55.520 --> 0:11:02.640 potatoes just over like rice. I want car rice, like 0:11:02.640 --> 0:11:04.360 like potatoes on. 0:11:04.440 --> 0:11:06.719 Rice or palenta. 0:11:07.000 --> 0:11:11.440 Yes's like fakacha on the side, you know, Like, I 0:11:11.679 --> 0:11:14.520 just want something that is going to just like be 0:11:14.679 --> 0:11:19.600 the perfect, most filling, delicious bite I've ever had. I'm 0:11:19.640 --> 0:11:22.360 not concerned with it being healthy. I'm not concerned with 0:11:22.400 --> 0:11:24.000 what it's going to do to me. It's my last meal, 0:11:24.200 --> 0:11:26.480 you know, Like I just want it to just a 0:11:26.520 --> 0:11:28.840 bite that will spiritually take my shirt off. 0:11:30.120 --> 0:11:32.959 Because I'm going to eat and get naked. That's how 0:11:33.000 --> 0:11:36.960 I'm going out. That's it. 0:11:37.160 --> 0:11:39.200 Like a bite that says so like be in a 0:11:39.240 --> 0:11:41.680 circle with me, and whatever that is. I don't know 0:11:41.760 --> 0:11:43.319 many like I'm reaching. 0:11:43.160 --> 0:11:45.800 No, no, no, I'm so with you in the circle 0:11:45.840 --> 0:11:49.040 of death with your short rim and your potatoes over rice. 0:11:49.080 --> 0:11:52.680 Are joking I'm there. I'm starving. I can't wait to 0:11:52.679 --> 0:11:55.480 eat that. I just love it. Now, what am I 0:11:55.480 --> 0:11:57.240 going to cook on Instagram that's going to want to 0:11:57.240 --> 0:11:58.720 make them all take their shirts off? 0:11:59.040 --> 0:12:00.760 Listen? I asked my questions. 0:12:01.000 --> 0:12:03.079 Knows, it's a whole new question. I'm just going to 0:12:03.160 --> 0:12:05.800 be thinking about that. It's a very good barometer. 0:12:05.400 --> 0:12:08.760 Like what's going to make my unled life really get going? 0:12:09.160 --> 0:12:10.880 I think about my unled lives a lot, like I 0:12:10.880 --> 0:12:12.880 could have ended up doing that. I could have ended 0:12:12.960 --> 0:12:14.680 up doing that, like what would they want to eat? 0:12:15.080 --> 0:12:17.480 You know, so like different versions of myself. But I'm 0:12:17.480 --> 0:12:19.960 constantly thinking and questioning about who I want to feed 0:12:20.080 --> 0:12:20.480 and why. 0:12:20.960 --> 0:12:23.559 Hmmm. But I think that's good questions. I think that's 0:12:23.600 --> 0:12:26.319 a very interesting question for a chef to have, not 0:12:26.640 --> 0:12:28.440 like what am I cooking to impress? But like who 0:12:28.440 --> 0:12:30.000 do I want to cook for? What am I giving? 0:12:30.120 --> 0:12:34.240 What am I feeding? Quite literally? Yes? Good good questions. 0:12:48.920 --> 0:12:53.080 What relationship, real or fictionalized, defines love for you? 0:12:54.160 --> 0:12:57.800 Okay, so a fictional one. I have this idea. So 0:12:57.840 --> 0:13:00.280 I grew up really food and secure, and my mom 0:13:00.360 --> 0:13:02.640 is a substance abuser and my real dad never met 0:13:02.720 --> 0:13:04.520 him before he died, I have no idea who he is. 0:13:04.679 --> 0:13:07.840 So I had this idea in my head from like 0:13:07.920 --> 0:13:10.840 kind of a younger age for whatever reason, that Freddie 0:13:10.840 --> 0:13:13.880 Mercury was my dad and Donna Summer was my mom. 0:13:14.400 --> 0:13:16.920 I don't know why, but like to me, those felt 0:13:17.040 --> 0:13:20.520 like the best parents I could have ever imagined, Donna 0:13:20.559 --> 0:13:23.120 with this hair and Freddy with this voice. So for me, 0:13:23.400 --> 0:13:26.240 like that relationship, like those are just my dream parents. 0:13:26.360 --> 0:13:29.760 Many I can't describe it to you like I sometimes 0:13:29.800 --> 0:13:33.520 I imagine feeding them or talking to them, or like 0:13:33.920 --> 0:13:36.680 I just you know, it's so strange and it's star 0:13:36.960 --> 0:13:39.280 both of them are no longer with us, but I 0:13:39.440 --> 0:13:42.360 just imagine that they would have loved each other a 0:13:42.400 --> 0:13:45.199 lot and coincidentally loved me too, you. 0:13:45.160 --> 0:13:48.520 Know, honestly, in three years of doing this, that is 0:13:48.840 --> 0:13:53.840 hands down my favorite answer. Like it's so arresting that 0:13:53.840 --> 0:13:57.320 that's what defines love for you, like that they exist, 0:13:57.600 --> 0:13:59.520 these people that I can also tune into, like my 0:13:59.600 --> 0:14:01.559 love of friend Emocury, in my love of Donna Sama, 0:14:01.679 --> 0:14:03.400 and the idea of them as a carful is now 0:14:03.559 --> 0:14:04.359 so delightful. 0:14:04.880 --> 0:14:08.040 I know, I know, is it gorgeous. 0:14:07.679 --> 0:14:10.680 But also like so interesting because you know, you dropped 0:14:10.679 --> 0:14:13.960 a lot of information in that, Like there's a huge 0:14:13.960 --> 0:14:17.360 amount of what I suppose it's probably deemed really painful 0:14:17.520 --> 0:14:21.200 history and to go, there's this joyful reimagining of what 0:14:21.360 --> 0:14:24.000 is very painful, which I feel like we could do 0:14:24.280 --> 0:14:27.080 that a lot more in our lives. Go yeah, this happened, 0:14:27.120 --> 0:14:29.720 this is this thing, But here is this other definition. 0:14:29.760 --> 0:14:32.480 And not only that you can say it's unlikely, but 0:14:32.560 --> 0:14:36.040 it's not. This is my definition of what love would 0:14:36.040 --> 0:14:37.280 look like or what love looks like. 0:14:37.760 --> 0:14:40.280 Yes, I don't really know anything about my dad, and 0:14:40.320 --> 0:14:42.120 instead of just being sad about it, I could just 0:14:42.400 --> 0:14:44.640 imagine what we would have shared and what we would 0:14:44.680 --> 0:14:46.920 have talked about, and what a dream dad looks like 0:14:46.960 --> 0:14:49.600 for me? Is Freddy Like that is my dream dad, 0:14:49.960 --> 0:14:52.120 Like in all the ways, that's like my dream voice, 0:14:52.200 --> 0:14:55.080 the way that he looks at the work that he does, 0:14:55.120 --> 0:14:57.600 and that kind of work ethic and the creativity and 0:14:57.640 --> 0:15:00.720 the artistry, but also the fun and the glamor. I 0:15:00.720 --> 0:15:02.720 would have loved to have a dad like that. And 0:15:02.760 --> 0:15:04.920 the same with Donna. She struggled a lot with her 0:15:04.920 --> 0:15:07.520 mental health and same and I think that it just 0:15:07.800 --> 0:15:11.440 I imagine that they would have understood the struggles that 0:15:11.480 --> 0:15:13.200 I went through. And also I feel like a fair 0:15:13.240 --> 0:15:15.360 bit of even just the way they look even could 0:15:15.400 --> 0:15:17.920 have maybe looked like me. Like there's something in them 0:15:18.000 --> 0:15:21.800 that I really see myself in. And they just made 0:15:21.800 --> 0:15:25.400 me feel really loved when I listen to their work. 0:15:25.720 --> 0:15:28.840 And again, it's a totally fictional relationship in all the 0:15:28.840 --> 0:15:30.880 ways it could be. They are not my parents, they 0:15:30.880 --> 0:15:31.680 were not married. 0:15:31.760 --> 0:15:35.680 But yeah, but that's very literally the notion of telling 0:15:35.680 --> 0:15:41.120 a different story. I'm a big believer in re fictionalizing 0:15:41.520 --> 0:15:44.120 hardshit in our lives. Yes, I write a memoir and 0:15:44.160 --> 0:15:46.880 I'm writing a novel. And what's so interesting is that 0:15:47.120 --> 0:15:50.160 you totally cannibalize your life and your stories. It's not 0:15:50.240 --> 0:15:52.160 those people, but it is. And then I can shave 0:15:52.240 --> 0:15:54.640 off the harsh corners that I wish weren't there, and 0:15:54.680 --> 0:15:56.440 I can reimagine what the story would be with a 0:15:56.520 --> 0:15:58.600 character who absolutely existed in my life, but I can 0:15:58.640 --> 0:16:01.840 put them in. I think ecologically it's an incredibly healthy 0:16:01.840 --> 0:16:04.640 thing to do. You read all the lines of your story, right, 0:16:05.160 --> 0:16:05.520 why not? 0:16:05.840 --> 0:16:08.680 Yeah, Like they're perfect people, and I guess I'm just thinking, 0:16:08.760 --> 0:16:11.240 like I don't know like an alley is dark and 0:16:11.240 --> 0:16:13.840 still without weather if you want it to be, but 0:16:14.280 --> 0:16:15.840 the alley at the other end of it can be 0:16:15.920 --> 0:16:19.720 like bright and rainbows and whatever. And I think I 0:16:19.760 --> 0:16:22.400 already know the childhood that I had, and it was 0:16:22.400 --> 0:16:25.880 pretty dark and stormy and not great. And so I 0:16:25.960 --> 0:16:32.040 think when I imagine my dream, it looks big and joyful 0:16:32.240 --> 0:16:36.480 and intense and just has everything that I just didn't have. 0:16:36.800 --> 0:16:39.480 And I don't know. There are definitely times where even 0:16:39.480 --> 0:16:41.400 in my mind, I convinced myself like that's what you 0:16:41.480 --> 0:16:44.040 got going on, like those are the dream parents. Let's 0:16:44.160 --> 0:16:46.960 lead with that energy even though they weren't real, and agree, 0:16:47.160 --> 0:16:49.440 it's very much helps me in my work. It helps 0:16:49.440 --> 0:16:53.320 my work, helps me sleep, you know, so all. 0:16:53.520 --> 0:16:56.120 Of the most important things and that idea, by the 0:16:56.200 --> 0:16:59.160 way of leading with that energy, of choosing what that 0:16:59.280 --> 0:17:10.080 is yourself, that's amazing. I love it. What question which 0:17:10.119 --> 0:17:11.320 you most like answered? 0:17:11.800 --> 0:17:13.480 I mean I think about this in like two camps. 0:17:13.520 --> 0:17:17.000 It's like my personal questions in my life. And then 0:17:17.000 --> 0:17:20.640 there's like these like big existential questions like why does 0:17:20.680 --> 0:17:23.560 death exist? Why can't we live forever? There's those things. 0:17:23.600 --> 0:17:25.320 But I think in my own life It's like I 0:17:25.359 --> 0:17:27.920 wish I understood, like why my childhood was the way 0:17:27.920 --> 0:17:29.640 that it was. I wish I knew if my dad 0:17:29.680 --> 0:17:34.439 really cared about me. I wish I knew if he didn't. 0:17:35.359 --> 0:17:39.000 Why do you think the why? What do you think 0:17:39.040 --> 0:17:41.199 the why would do? Like, what do you think it 0:17:41.280 --> 0:17:43.439 would do if you got the answer to that? 0:17:43.800 --> 0:17:46.240 It's interesting many because like I know that it really 0:17:46.280 --> 0:17:48.199 it wouldn't. I mean, I'm here, here, I am, It 0:17:48.200 --> 0:17:50.840 wouldn't make a difference. It wouldn't make my life any different, right, Like, 0:17:51.000 --> 0:17:53.600 I think it's just the knowing of it. I think 0:17:53.640 --> 0:17:57.560 that would be really nice to just know. Thinking about 0:17:57.720 --> 0:17:59.760 if my dad actually cared about me does not keep 0:17:59.760 --> 0:18:03.240 me up night. I'm fine, I'm okay, I'm an adult, 0:18:03.320 --> 0:18:05.880 I'm here. I'm happy with Freddy being my imaginary father. 0:18:06.320 --> 0:18:08.280 But I think it would just kind of help me 0:18:08.520 --> 0:18:11.480 understand and like maybe rationalize or maybe like a younger person, 0:18:11.560 --> 0:18:14.879 rationalize myself. I also understand it's like a really selfish question, 0:18:15.000 --> 0:18:18.200 like of all the questions that you could possibly ask, No, 0:18:18.720 --> 0:18:20.320 that's the question. It's so selfish. 0:18:20.400 --> 0:18:22.080 It's not I don't think it is. First of all, 0:18:22.119 --> 0:18:24.399 it's your answer and I think when you've lived so 0:18:24.520 --> 0:18:27.399 long with a why that feels like a missing piece, 0:18:27.680 --> 0:18:30.520 it's totally natural that that would be the question. The 0:18:30.560 --> 0:18:34.280 only reason I ask is because I remember when, in 0:18:34.600 --> 0:18:37.879 the depths of just profound heartbreak and the dissolution of 0:18:38.040 --> 0:18:41.080 a really long relationship with someone that I loved who 0:18:41.320 --> 0:18:44.399 just turn out to be an absolute ass, I asked 0:18:44.440 --> 0:18:49.479 the therapist why, like why why why? As like clutching 0:18:49.520 --> 0:18:51.840 at straws, and I remember her saying, if I could 0:18:51.880 --> 0:18:54.320 answer that for you, it wouldn't change anything at all. 0:18:54.560 --> 0:18:56.359 And I sort of held on to that like a 0:18:56.400 --> 0:18:59.600 life raft because it wasn't ultimately satisfying, because I did 0:18:59.640 --> 0:19:02.840 want to know why. But there was something about letting 0:19:02.880 --> 0:19:05.560 go of the mental anguish of that why and actually 0:19:05.600 --> 0:19:08.600 embracing the isness, which was super painful, but that did 0:19:08.640 --> 0:19:11.840 actually evolve. The why never evolved, but the isness of 0:19:11.920 --> 0:19:14.960 my life did, which was interesting. And I feel like, 0:19:15.440 --> 0:19:19.879 quite clearly yoursiness is Donna and Freddy. It does feel 0:19:19.880 --> 0:19:21.119 like you lead with their energy. 0:19:21.600 --> 0:19:23.399 I do. I mean, I guess maybe it's like this 0:19:23.520 --> 0:19:26.960 ecstasy of expectation. What is the answer I'm expecting. There's 0:19:27.000 --> 0:19:29.480 something alluring about a question I can't get answered, and 0:19:29.520 --> 0:19:31.000 so that's maybe why I can't let it go. 0:19:31.560 --> 0:19:32.400 That's interesting. 0:19:32.720 --> 0:19:36.000