Speaker 1: I have to tell you my mother. My mother was
Speaker 1: a great cook, and she used to go, your elbow
Speaker 1: taste good if you're deep fried.
Speaker 2: It, see's right.
Speaker 1: So now we go when we're like at anywhere where
Speaker 1: it's shit food, when it's deep fried and we're all
Speaker 1: eating it, we're like deep fried elbow.
Speaker 2: That's true. Now when all fails, you just drop into
Speaker 2: deep fryer and it's all going to be fine.
Speaker 1: Hello, I'm mini driver. I've always loved Preust's questionnaire. It
Speaker 1: was originally in nineteenth century parlor game where players would
Speaker 1: ask each other thirty five questions aimed at revealing.
Speaker 3: The other player's true nature.
Speaker 1: In asking different people the same set of questions, you
Speaker 1: can make observations about which truths appear to be universal.
Speaker 1: And it made me wonder, what if these questions were
Speaker 1: just the jumping off point, what greater depths would be
Speaker 1: revealed if I asked these questions as conversation starters. So
Speaker 1: I adapted Prus' questionnaire and I wrote my own seven
Speaker 1: questions that I personally think are pertinent to a person's story.
Speaker 3: They are when and where were you happiest?
Speaker 1: What is the quality you like least about yourself? What relationship,
Speaker 1: real or fictionalized, defines.
Speaker 2: Love for you?
Speaker 3: What question would you most like answered, What person, place,
Speaker 3: or experience has shaped you the most? What would be
Speaker 3: your last meal? And can you tell me something in
Speaker 3: your life that's grown out of a personal disaster? And
Speaker 3: I've gathered a group of really remarkable people, ones that
Speaker 3: I am honored and humbled to have had the chance
Speaker 3: to engage with. You may not hear their answers to
Speaker 3: all seven of these questions. We've whittled it down to
Speaker 3: which questions felt closest to their experience or the most surprising,
Speaker 3: or created the most fertile.
Speaker 1: Ground to connect. My guest today is the James Beard
Speaker 1: Award winning chef, writer, and TV host Sophia Row. Sophia
Speaker 1: produced and hosted the Emmy nominated show Counterspace, where she
Speaker 1: used food to explore a changing world world. She won
Speaker 1: the James Beard Award as an Emerging Voice in Broadcast
Speaker 1: Media and was notably the first black woman to be
Speaker 1: nominated in that category. Her main mission is to demonstrate
Speaker 1: how food is both political and artistic. She grew up
Speaker 1: with food insecurity when she was a child. She's really
Speaker 1: passionate about and really adept at raising awareness about people
Speaker 1: who are going hungry. Sophia currently lives in New York
Speaker 1: and works out of this extraordinary culinary studio called Apartment Miso,
Speaker 1: where she cooks, makes films, and develops recipes. Her food
Speaker 1: is playful, creative, and visually beautiful, and it was an
Speaker 1: absolute pleasure to talk to her. I'm really so happy
Speaker 1: to meet you and so happy to talk about food
Speaker 1: with you, and thank you for coming on first and foremost.
Speaker 2: Of course even of course, are you kiddie? This is like,
Speaker 2: this is the best part of my month. So trust
Speaker 2: I'm thrilled to be here. This is great, so nice
Speaker 2: to talk to you.
Speaker 1: So nice as you are you currently in Brooklyn? Are
Speaker 1: you in your famous apartment?
Speaker 2: So I'm in my apartment. But it's interesting A lot
Speaker 2: of people don't know this, but my food content is
Speaker 2: not shot in my physical home. I have a studio.
Speaker 2: I have a culinary studio, so I keep it all separate,
Speaker 2: mostly for my sanity.
Speaker 1: That's very smart.
Speaker 2: No, that's like my office. And I think a lot
Speaker 2: of people have offices, but like in my office, I
Speaker 2: cook in my office. So my studio is in an
Speaker 2: area of Brooklyn called Bushwick, and I live in Williamsburg,
Speaker 2: so I mean fifteen minutes. I could walk to my studio.
Speaker 2: I could take the train, I could take a bike,
Speaker 2: I could drive. It's so close. But I try to
Speaker 2: keep my actual home very much just for me. I
Speaker 2: do cook a lot in here, but everything you see
Speaker 2: on the internet happens in my studio.
Speaker 1: What quality do you like least about yourself?
Speaker 2: Oh, I'm so critical. I want so so desperately to
Speaker 2: be less. So I want to be less of a
Speaker 2: perfectionist so much. I don't want to sit on concepts
Speaker 2: or ideas for years because they're not perfect yet. I
Speaker 2: just want to get it out there because I feel
Speaker 2: like what's behind those ideas are just better ideas, So
Speaker 2: I just need to push them out. Resist this consistent
Speaker 2: temptation to just like tw tweak tweak, tweak, tweak, and
Speaker 2: just know and trust that this is amazing, this is great,
Speaker 2: and it's not going to be your only great thing.
Speaker 2: There's going to be a million other great things.
Speaker 1: I just wrote that down. What's behind the ideas are
Speaker 1: better ideas. I could take that to be super positive,
Speaker 1: or I could take that to also be super hypocritical.
Speaker 1: I think that's a very creative person's quandary because you
Speaker 1: really can argue it both ways. It's difficult to know
Speaker 1: when to say when and go na, na, No, we've
Speaker 1: arrived at a good iteration of this. I need to
Speaker 1: commit to that and not keep probing or questioning.
Speaker 2: Yes, because what can happen is you can confuse yourself
Speaker 2: and make it feel like, oh, I'm just reevaluating. But
Speaker 2: before you know it, the thing that you're that's so great,
Speaker 2: that's so beautiful, just becomes something else. So at what point,
Speaker 2: like instead of turning it into something else, let's put
Speaker 2: it out and then work on something else. And so
Speaker 2: I'm always trying to kind of I don't want to
Speaker 2: say pull back, just step back, like for what this is,
Speaker 2: this is great, and this other thing that you want
Speaker 2: to change about it, Let's just create something new after
Speaker 2: we put this out. Let's just put this out and
Speaker 2: then like make a new project. Like us chefs get
Speaker 2: kind of wrapped up and like we want to do
Speaker 2: all the ideas that we have at once, because there's
Speaker 2: so many ideas, and I think it's really important to
Speaker 2: remember that that's what new projects are for, exactly, you know,
Speaker 2: other ideas and other moments.
Speaker 1: When you feel that you are being hypocritical of yourself
Speaker 1: or your work. Do you have like a ritual or
Speaker 1: a protocol that will help you get out of that? Oh?
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's things I say to myself, like, Sophia, we're
Speaker 2: going to stop here. This is me loving you, like
Speaker 2: loving myself, like me loving myself right now is like
Speaker 2: we're actually just going to put this away. Oh what
Speaker 2: a terrible joy it is to be in a situation
Speaker 2: where you feel like you need to just like keep
Speaker 2: shifting it. This is it's like not even a real problem.
Speaker 2: This is not a real problem. You're taking a really
Speaker 2: great thing and asking yourself how you can make it better?
Speaker 2: Why is that important? Why is better important? In this moment? Right?
Speaker 2: This is already great, you know. And that always leads
Speaker 2: me to like, oh, you're trying to be perfect.
Speaker 1: Hmmm, that's interesting.
Speaker 2: You're trying to be perfect, and that's actually not what
Speaker 2: people are asking for, you know what I mean. No
Speaker 2: one's asking for perfect.
Speaker 1: Appslutely, that's a very good thing to remember. No one
Speaker 1: is asking for perfect. Okay, I'm now I'm writing that
Speaker 1: down to That would make my day so much easier
Speaker 1: and shorter. If I could do that, I'm literally going
Speaker 1: to put that on a tent card on my desk.
Speaker 1: No one is asking for perfect and because it's like
Speaker 1: but oh yeah, no they're not. No one's asking for it.
Speaker 1: Where and when were you happiest?
Speaker 2: For the time I read that question, where and when
Speaker 2: was I happiest? I'm like happy recently happy in my life.
Speaker 2: Happy is also a thing I'm consistently chasing what that
Speaker 2: feels like. I think I'm probably the happiest one. I'm
Speaker 2: not really thinking about anybody else's opinion, Like, I think
Speaker 2: I'm probably the most happy when I wake up and
Speaker 2: I just decide what I'm going to do about my day,
Speaker 2: and I'm not worried about what my manager thinks I
Speaker 2: should be doing, or what a friend thinks I should
Speaker 2: be doing, or what a person around me thinks I
Speaker 2: should be doing. I'm most happy when I wake up
Speaker 2: and I have all the conviction in the world to
Speaker 2: just do exactly what I want to do.
Speaker 1: That's so interesting because what is excuse the pun, quite
Speaker 1: literally baked into what you do is the approbation of
Speaker 1: other people and them finding what you do quite literally delicious.
Speaker 1: So is that part of your personality. You find something
Speaker 1: like that kind of the hard iteration of something, but
Speaker 1: you lean into it by finding moments that you do
Speaker 1: just make yourself happy rather than everybody else.
Speaker 2: I mean, I think there's this deep need for me
Speaker 2: to make other people happy, but I wouldn't say that
Speaker 2: that's the thing that makes me happiest. You know, it
Speaker 2: makes me very happy to feed people. It makes me
Speaker 2: very happy to give people exactly what they want. I
Speaker 2: think I'm kind of like the anti chef in a
Speaker 2: lot of ways, Whereas like you go to a restaurant
Speaker 2: and the restaurant's very much like no substitutions, and this
Speaker 2: is chef's menu for me. I'm the kind of person
Speaker 2: who's like, I actually want to make what you want
Speaker 2: to eat, So like I'm down for substitutions, Like I'm
Speaker 2: down for someone to walk in and say, can we
Speaker 2: do this with no tomatoes? Like I really enjoy that
Speaker 2: about people. I enjoy people's preferences Like that makes me happy.
Speaker 2: But in that I'm kind of like doing what I want.
Speaker 2: But there's freedom in that, you know, to like try
Speaker 2: something new, Like actually, I've never made this the way
Speaker 2: this person wants it, so let me try that out, Like,
Speaker 2: that's fun. You know, I've never made sushi without fish before.
Speaker 2: Let's do that.
Speaker 1: That's cool, you know what I'm saying. I do. I
Speaker 1: like it because it's the same thing with a director,
Speaker 1: Like a director wants you to do something a certain way,
Speaker 1: and you can get all esteemed and I've spent months
Speaker 1: thinking about this and I want to do it this way,
Speaker 1: or you can kind of go, well, I got the
Speaker 1: bones of that, like that's there anyway, So trying it
Speaker 1: another way is invariably interesting. But you kind of have
Speaker 1: to consciously lean into that and not push up against it.
Speaker 1: And I do think a lot of actors and I
Speaker 1: think probably a lot of chefs that you said, they
Speaker 1: do push up against that notion of I don't want
Speaker 1: to do it another way. It's my way. But you're right,
Speaker 1: this freedom and happiness and letting go of that, I guess.
Speaker 2: I just when I think about waking up and kind
Speaker 2: of doing what I want to do, like really it's discovery,
Speaker 2: you know, Like I'm really into fried deserts right now,
Speaker 2: so I just want to go in my studio and
Speaker 2: just like do fried desserts and what will happen? Sort
Speaker 2: of by proxy is I'll end up in this place
Speaker 2: that is a really good place, and that's the editable place.
Speaker 2: I post something about funnel cake, and I get messages
Speaker 2: on like can we make this vegan? Can we make
Speaker 2: this with nuts? Can we do this with this kind
Speaker 2: of curd?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 2: And then it becomes collaborative and it becomes free, and
Speaker 2: like that's another level of happy. But I think the
Speaker 2: core of the happiness is waking up and deciding on
Speaker 2: we're doing fried desserts. Like that's the juice that I
Speaker 2: need to get to instead of waking up and having
Speaker 2: per as. So much of my life is parameters. You know,
Speaker 2: so much is like feeding this many people, but you
Speaker 2: have this much heat, you have this much counter space,
Speaker 2: you have this much refrigeration. I just think it's nice
Speaker 2: to wake up and be like, you know what, I'm
Speaker 2: just gonna go in my space and like feel it out.
Speaker 2: Like that is a really happy place for me.
Speaker 1: I love that. I love that. I love that it's
Speaker 1: connected with what you do. This is a good question
Speaker 1: for you. What would be your last meal?
Speaker 2: So I know I was thinking about this. I'm like,
Speaker 2: is this a good question? Is this like the hardest question? Ever, Okay,
Speaker 2: I the best meal for me would be something so
Speaker 2: hearty and just so rich and something that sticks to
Speaker 2: my bones because I'm about to just not even be
Speaker 2: aware of my bones anymore. Like I just want to
Speaker 2: feel so stuffed. I want like a stew. I want
Speaker 2: something that's been in the oven for three days. I
Speaker 2: want like short rib falling off the bone. I want
Speaker 2: potatoes just over like rice. I want car rice, like
Speaker 2: like potatoes on.
Speaker 1: Rice or palenta.
Speaker 2: Yes's like fakacha on the side, you know, Like, I
Speaker 2: just want something that is going to just like be
Speaker 2: the perfect, most filling, delicious bite I've ever had. I'm
Speaker 2: not concerned with it being healthy. I'm not concerned with
Speaker 2: what it's going to do to me. It's my last meal,
Speaker 2: you know, Like I just want it to just a
Speaker 2: bite that will spiritually take my shirt off.
Speaker 1: Because I'm going to eat and get naked. That's how
Speaker 1: I'm going out. That's it.
Speaker 2: Like a bite that says so like be in a
Speaker 2: circle with me, and whatever that is. I don't know
Speaker 2: many like I'm reaching.
Speaker 1: No, no, no, I'm so with you in the circle
Speaker 1: of death with your short rim and your potatoes over rice.
Speaker 1: Are joking I'm there. I'm starving. I can't wait to
Speaker 1: eat that. I just love it. Now, what am I
Speaker 1: going to cook on Instagram that's going to want to
Speaker 1: make them all take their shirts off?
Speaker 2: Listen? I asked my questions.
Speaker 1: Knows, it's a whole new question. I'm just going to
Speaker 1: be thinking about that. It's a very good barometer.
Speaker 2: Like what's going to make my unled life really get going?
Speaker 2: I think about my unled lives a lot, like I
Speaker 2: could have ended up doing that. I could have ended
Speaker 2: up doing that, like what would they want to eat?
Speaker 2: You know, so like different versions of myself. But I'm
Speaker 2: constantly thinking and questioning about who I want to feed
Speaker 2: and why.
Speaker 1: Hmmm. But I think that's good questions. I think that's
Speaker 1: a very interesting question for a chef to have, not
Speaker 1: like what am I cooking to impress? But like who
Speaker 1: do I want to cook for? What am I giving?
Speaker 1: What am I feeding? Quite literally? Yes? Good good questions.
Speaker 1: What relationship, real or fictionalized, defines love for you?
Speaker 2: Okay, so a fictional one. I have this idea. So
Speaker 2: I grew up really food and secure, and my mom
Speaker 2: is a substance abuser and my real dad never met
Speaker 2: him before he died, I have no idea who he is.
Speaker 2: So I had this idea in my head from like
Speaker 2: kind of a younger age for whatever reason, that Freddie
Speaker 2: Mercury was my dad and Donna Summer was my mom.
Speaker 2: I don't know why, but like to me, those felt
Speaker 2: like the best parents I could have ever imagined, Donna
Speaker 2: with this hair and Freddy with this voice. So for me,
Speaker 2: like that relationship, like those are just my dream parents.
Speaker 2: Many I can't describe it to you like I sometimes
Speaker 2: I imagine feeding them or talking to them, or like
Speaker 2: I just you know, it's so strange and it's star
Speaker 2: both of them are no longer with us, but I
Speaker 2: just imagine that they would have loved each other a
Speaker 2: lot and coincidentally loved me too, you.
Speaker 1: Know, honestly, in three years of doing this, that is
Speaker 1: hands down my favorite answer. Like it's so arresting that
Speaker 1: that's what defines love for you, like that they exist,
Speaker 1: these people that I can also tune into, like my
Speaker 1: love of friend Emocury, in my love of Donna Sama,
Speaker 1: and the idea of them as a carful is now
Speaker 1: so delightful.
Speaker 2: I know, I know, is it gorgeous.
Speaker 1: But also like so interesting because you know, you dropped
Speaker 1: a lot of information in that, Like there's a huge
Speaker 1: amount of what I suppose it's probably deemed really painful
Speaker 1: history and to go, there's this joyful reimagining of what
Speaker 1: is very painful, which I feel like we could do
Speaker 1: that a lot more in our lives. Go yeah, this happened,
Speaker 1: this is this thing, But here is this other definition.
Speaker 1: And not only that you can say it's unlikely, but
Speaker 1: it's not. This is my definition of what love would
Speaker 1: look like or what love looks like.
Speaker 2: Yes, I don't really know anything about my dad, and
Speaker 2: instead of just being sad about it, I could just
Speaker 2: imagine what we would have shared and what we would
Speaker 2: have talked about, and what a dream dad looks like
Speaker 2: for me? Is Freddy Like that is my dream dad,
Speaker 2: Like in all the ways, that's like my dream voice,
Speaker 2: the way that he looks at the work that he does,
Speaker 2: and that kind of work ethic and the creativity and
Speaker 2: the artistry, but also the fun and the glamor. I
Speaker 2: would have loved to have a dad like that. And
Speaker 2: the same with Donna. She struggled a lot with her
Speaker 2: mental health and same and I think that it just
Speaker 2: I imagine that they would have understood the struggles that
Speaker 2: I went through. And also I feel like a fair
Speaker 2: bit of even just the way they look even could
Speaker 2: have maybe looked like me. Like there's something in them
Speaker 2: that I really see myself in. And they just made
Speaker 2: me feel really loved when I listen to their work.
Speaker 2: And again, it's a totally fictional relationship in all the
Speaker 2: ways it could be. They are not my parents, they
Speaker 2: were not married.
Speaker 1: But yeah, but that's very literally the notion of telling
Speaker 1: a different story. I'm a big believer in re fictionalizing
Speaker 1: hardshit in our lives. Yes, I write a memoir and
Speaker 1: I'm writing a novel. And what's so interesting is that
Speaker 1: you totally cannibalize your life and your stories. It's not
Speaker 1: those people, but it is. And then I can shave
Speaker 1: off the harsh corners that I wish weren't there, and
Speaker 1: I can reimagine what the story would be with a
Speaker 1: character who absolutely existed in my life, but I can
Speaker 1: put them in. I think ecologically it's an incredibly healthy
Speaker 1: thing to do. You read all the lines of your story, right,
Speaker 1: why not?
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like they're perfect people, and I guess I'm just thinking,
Speaker 2: like I don't know like an alley is dark and
Speaker 2: still without weather if you want it to be, but
Speaker 2: the alley at the other end of it can be
Speaker 2: like bright and rainbows and whatever. And I think I
Speaker 2: already know the childhood that I had, and it was
Speaker 2: pretty dark and stormy and not great. And so I
Speaker 2: think when I imagine my dream, it looks big and joyful
Speaker 2: and intense and just has everything that I just didn't have.
Speaker 2: And I don't know. There are definitely times where even
Speaker 2: in my mind, I convinced myself like that's what you
Speaker 2: got going on, like those are the dream parents. Let's
Speaker 2: lead with that energy even though they weren't real, and agree,
Speaker 2: it's very much helps me in my work. It helps
Speaker 2: my work, helps me sleep, you know, so all.
Speaker 1: Of the most important things and that idea, by the
Speaker 1: way of leading with that energy, of choosing what that
Speaker 1: is yourself, that's amazing. I love it. What question which
Speaker 1: you most like answered?
Speaker 2: I mean I think about this in like two camps.
Speaker 2: It's like my personal questions in my life. And then
Speaker 2: there's like these like big existential questions like why does
Speaker 2: death exist? Why can't we live forever? There's those things.
Speaker 2: But I think in my own life It's like I
Speaker 2: wish I understood, like why my childhood was the way
Speaker 2: that it was. I wish I knew if my dad
Speaker 2: really cared about me. I wish I knew if he didn't.
Speaker 1: Why do you think the why? What do you think
Speaker 1: the why would do? Like, what do you think it
Speaker 1: would do if you got the answer to that?
Speaker 2: It's interesting many because like I know that it really
Speaker 2: it wouldn't. I mean, I'm here, here, I am, It
Speaker 2: wouldn't make a difference. It wouldn't make my life any different, right, Like,
Speaker 2: I think it's just the knowing of it. I think
Speaker 2: that would be really nice to just know. Thinking about
Speaker 2: if my dad actually cared about me does not keep
Speaker 2: me up night. I'm fine, I'm okay, I'm an adult,
Speaker 2: I'm here. I'm happy with Freddy being my imaginary father.
Speaker 2: But I think it would just kind of help me
Speaker 2: understand and like maybe rationalize or maybe like a younger person,
Speaker 2: rationalize myself. I also understand it's like a really selfish question,
Speaker 2: like of all the questions that you could possibly ask, No,
Speaker 2: that's the question. It's so selfish.
Speaker 1: It's not I don't think it is. First of all,
Speaker 1: it's your answer and I think when you've lived so
Speaker 1: long with a why that feels like a missing piece,
Speaker 1: it's totally natural that that would be the question. The
Speaker 1: only reason I ask is because I remember when, in
Speaker 1: the depths of just profound heartbreak and the dissolution of
Speaker 1: a really long relationship with someone that I loved who
Speaker 1: just turn out to be an absolute ass, I asked
Speaker 1: the therapist why, like why why why? As like clutching
Speaker 1: at straws, and I remember her saying, if I could
Speaker 1: answer that for you, it wouldn't change anything at all.
Speaker 1: And I sort of held on to that like a
Speaker 1: life raft because it wasn't ultimately satisfying, because I did
Speaker 1: want to know why. But there was something about letting
Speaker 1: go of the mental anguish of that why and actually
Speaker 1: embracing the isness, which was super painful, but that did
Speaker 1: actually evolve. The why never evolved, but the isness of
Speaker 1: my life did, which was interesting. And I feel like,
Speaker 1: quite clearly yoursiness is Donna and Freddy. It does feel
Speaker 1: like you lead with their energy.
Speaker 2: I do. I mean, I guess maybe it's like this
Speaker 2: ecstasy of expectation. What is the answer I'm expecting. There's
Speaker 2: something alluring about a question I can't get answered, and
Speaker 2: so that's maybe why I can't let it go.
Speaker 1: That's interesting.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's something primordial about a question you know you'll
Speaker 2: never get answered. There's something about it that gets me
Speaker 2: kind of fired up. And so that's why it's like
Speaker 2: hard to let go of. I know the answer won't
Speaker 2: make a difference, and I know I'll never.
Speaker 1: Know because you have to radically live in acceptance. You
Speaker 1: have to radically surrender, yes, and that's really hard. But also, ultimately,
Speaker 1: clearly what I don't know whatever one calls the universe,
Speaker 1: God's source, whatever, that's clearly the we're here in our
Speaker 1: little biospheres of existence, and then that's over. I like
Speaker 1: the idea of living in that the weird, vastness of
Speaker 1: our ignorance me too, which is something a neuroscientist came
Speaker 1: on this show and said, and I haven't been able
Speaker 1: to forget it, so I'll share that with you.
Speaker 2: That's an amazing thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's good. What person, place, or experience most altered
Speaker 1: your life?
Speaker 2: Person? Oh my god, I mean my mom has definitely
Speaker 2: altered my life in a really big way. I mean,
Speaker 2: my mom is just a disaster, just a horrible mom
Speaker 2: but also like my greatest inspiration at the same time
Speaker 2: just inspires me to be absolutely not a thing like her,
Speaker 2: but also in a way did her best, even the
Speaker 2: struggles with substance abuse and the struggles with just her
Speaker 2: own universe. I think hindsight is interesting when you look
Speaker 2: back and you know she had multiple kids when she
Speaker 2: was in her young twenties and struggling with substance abuse
Speaker 2: and struggling with abuse from men, from physical abuse, It's like, yeah,
Speaker 2: in a way, like my mom kind of did the
Speaker 2: best that she could right and a time where there
Speaker 2: was no the treatment. What was treatment? Did my mom
Speaker 2: need to be like arrested for being a drug editor?
Speaker 2: Did she need treatment? But no one was going to
Speaker 2: provide that. She couldn't afford that, you know. So I
Speaker 2: think my mom is definitely a person that's had an
Speaker 2: incredible impact on who I try to be, who I
Speaker 2: want to be. She is that crux of like be
Speaker 2: anything but that learn from that, learn from her as
Speaker 2: a mom, and in that way she's been a great mom.
Speaker 1: So it's like by default, really, but how did you
Speaker 1: emerge from that into a person who gets to explore
Speaker 1: their creativity, who gets to bring something unique and different
Speaker 1: and super articulate to a lot of people. How did
Speaker 1: you come out of that?
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know. It didn't start out the plan.
Speaker 2: I'll say that it's like I was a nineteen year
Speaker 2: old who just needed a job. Someone please hire me.
Speaker 2: I mean, listen, I was a cook back when it
Speaker 2: wasn't cool to be a cook, right Like I remember
Speaker 2: back at two thousand and nine telling people that I
Speaker 2: worked in a restaurant and want to be a chef
Speaker 2: and they were like why, Like it was not it
Speaker 2: didn't have the allure. I think what keeps me going
Speaker 2: now is like, I have siblings. I have a great
Speaker 2: relationship with my little sister, and we share those mom wounds.
Speaker 2: We both have been through a lot. I think talking
Speaker 2: about it, being open about it, my mom is still alive.
Speaker 2: My mom is here. She's got plenty of mental health issues,
Speaker 2: and she's got plenty of things that she struggles with.
Speaker 2: And I think that it's acknowledging that my mom is
Speaker 2: not a good mom and maybe in a lot of
Speaker 2: times not a good person, but worthy of redemption. Has
Speaker 2: been instrumental in my forgiving her and instrumental in my
Speaker 2: loving her. My mom did horrific things to me and
Speaker 2: my siblings, and I still love her. You know, she's
Speaker 2: still my mom. She's so worthy of redemption just like
Speaker 2: anyone else. None of us should be the sum of
Speaker 2: our worst moments, even if our worst moments were literally
Speaker 2: like thirty plus years of being a mom. My mom
Speaker 2: teaches me about forgiveness. She teaches me about gratitude, and
Speaker 2: so that's what I mean, Like, I have this fairly
Speaker 2: complicated thing with her, Yeah, and with my gratitude. It's
Speaker 2: like Michael J. Fox said, with gratitude, your optimism is sustainable, right,
Speaker 2: That's how you keep those things sustainable. And I believe that,
Speaker 2: you know, I try to be optimistic about the destructive,
Speaker 2: toxic relationship that my mom has bestowed upon me. I'm
Speaker 2: still trying to be optimistic about it and have gratitude
Speaker 2: for it, because at the end of the day, what
Speaker 2: else is there. My life is good now, my little
Speaker 2: sisters were good. Now we're okay, we're on the other
Speaker 2: side of that. But if given the relationship that had
Speaker 2: the biggest impact on me, it's my mom's. Like that
Speaker 2: relationship is the sinkhole that I was trying desperately to
Speaker 2: swim out of and so instead of just running away
Speaker 2: from it, I just acknowledge it's there, and then it
Speaker 2: can't hurt me anymore.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. And you don't actively jump in it.
Speaker 2: We don't jump in it. We definitely don't jump in
Speaker 2: We don't jump in it. But I mean, if there's
Speaker 2: a place that's had a big impact on me, it's
Speaker 2: New York. New York has made me this person that's
Speaker 2: comfortable to talk about where I came from. New York
Speaker 2: is this place where every kind of person in the
Speaker 2: world exists on top of one another. You have a
Speaker 2: person that is experiencing homelessness sitting next to a woman
Speaker 2: that's carrying a burkin. They're on the same train, headed
Speaker 2: in the same direction, get off on the same stop. Right.
Speaker 2: New York really teaches you that you are just one
Speaker 2: of many. It taught me how to be part of
Speaker 2: an organism again, and that had a really great impact
Speaker 2: on me. You know, we all actually need each other,
Speaker 2: whether we believe.
Speaker 1: It or not. Amen, that's really good to be reminded
Speaker 1: of that. I'm glad you got to feel part of
Speaker 1: an organism again. That's really cool, Sophia. I can't thank
Speaker 1: you enough. Thank you for just being so candid and
Speaker 1: amazing and talking so beautifully about all of these hard
Speaker 1: and wonderful things.
Speaker 2: Thank you, of course, thank you for having me the
Speaker 2: best part of my day.
Speaker 1: Mini Questions is hosted and written by Me Mini Driver,
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