WEBVTT - Colin Sheehan - Part 3 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:03.000 Welcome back to another edition of the Frida Egg podcast 0:00:03.080 --> 0:00:05.840 and the final part of our episode with Colin she In. 0:00:07.040 --> 0:00:09.520 If you've missed either of the earlier parts, check them 0:00:09.520 --> 0:00:13.680 out in your podcast feed. Without further ado, here's the 0:00:13.680 --> 0:00:17.040 final part of our podcast with Yale golf coach Colin Sheen. 0:00:17.200 --> 0:00:20.760 The fried egg requires a different technique. What you need 0:00:20.800 --> 0:00:23.919 to do is actually square the face so they'll dig 0:00:24.000 --> 0:00:27.600 down underneath that bad lie and propel that ball right 0:00:27.640 --> 0:00:28.360 out onto the green. 0:00:29.320 --> 0:00:29.840 Here's the thing. 0:00:29.960 --> 0:00:32.360 Playing out of a buried lion of bunker is completely 0:00:32.440 --> 0:00:34.960 different than playing out of a nice, clean lion of 0:00:35.000 --> 0:00:35.920 green side bunker. 0:00:36.800 --> 0:00:39.080 You need to be aggressive on any show, whether it's 0:00:39.120 --> 0:00:41.240 sitting cleanly for its Friday Egg. 0:00:41.800 --> 0:00:44.280 Well, we've all faithd it, the dreaded Frida Egg. 0:00:44.960 --> 0:00:46.120 It's not to be feared, though. 0:00:46.120 --> 0:00:47.800 It's actually a pretty easy shot to hit. 0:00:58.360 --> 0:01:01.320 You. You're one of the three founders of the Outpost club. 0:01:01.400 --> 0:01:05.640 You mentioned it just briefly about trips to the UK. 0:01:07.400 --> 0:01:11.080 You guys started in twenty ten, and the whole kind 0:01:11.080 --> 0:01:15.160 of baseline ideas. You know, a country club without a course, 0:01:15.720 --> 0:01:16.800 you know a home course. 0:01:17.240 --> 0:01:19.360 Andy, You're much too smart to call it that it's 0:01:19.360 --> 0:01:20.240 a golf society. 0:01:20.319 --> 0:01:22.360 It's a well side well you know, I'm trying to 0:01:23.040 --> 0:01:26.600 called otherwise known as a golf society. I'm allowing you 0:01:26.680 --> 0:01:29.480 to present it in a lovely way. I'm just I'm 0:01:29.520 --> 0:01:31.080 just giving him the layman's description. 0:01:31.800 --> 0:01:36.760 It is worth a brief prehistory because it's kind of cool. 0:01:37.000 --> 0:01:40.080 And in two thousand and I got I went to 0:01:40.200 --> 0:01:43.120 Yale with will Smith. He was a year behind me. 0:01:43.280 --> 0:01:45.679 We became fast friends. I used to sneak him out 0:01:45.680 --> 0:01:47.960 on the Yale golf course, you know, try to sneak pack, 0:01:48.040 --> 0:01:51.200 try to avoid the fourteen dollars you know, student rate. 0:01:51.240 --> 0:01:51.800 At the time. 0:01:51.920 --> 0:01:53.880 He told me that you would tell them that you 0:01:53.920 --> 0:01:56.720 were a potential, and that he was a potential recruit. 0:01:57.400 --> 0:02:01.960 No, I'd say, he's trying out the top put off 0:02:01.960 --> 0:02:03.560 the first t I'd be like, oh, this is go. 0:02:05.120 --> 0:02:08.400 But so we both fell in love with architecture and 0:02:08.440 --> 0:02:11.360 the golf courses undergraduates, and then we followed it. You know, 0:02:11.400 --> 0:02:14.880 he actually went to travel Leasure golf. We both agreed, 0:02:15.000 --> 0:02:19.160 we both were you know, we were both following golf pursuits. 0:02:19.560 --> 0:02:21.520 Wasn't There's no you know, they don't come to they 0:02:21.520 --> 0:02:24.679 don't recruit on campus. You know, the banks, and the 0:02:25.480 --> 0:02:29.320 banks come and recruit, and the consulting agencies and the 0:02:29.320 --> 0:02:32.440 consulting firms come to campus. But you want to sort 0:02:32.480 --> 0:02:34.399 of cut a path in golf, you're on your own. 0:02:34.400 --> 0:02:36.360 And he and I were doing that out of college. 0:02:36.400 --> 0:02:40.760 And he was out working at the Prairie Club in 0:02:40.840 --> 0:02:44.480 Valentine and Cherry County and Valentine, Nebraska in two thousand 0:02:44.520 --> 0:02:49.400 and eight or nine, two thousand and eight, and they 0:02:49.440 --> 0:02:53.040 met someone who had land that was ideal for golf 0:02:53.040 --> 0:02:57.000 in the area. And it was on we had elevation undulation, 0:02:57.120 --> 0:02:58.760 it was in the sand hills, and it had this 0:02:58.880 --> 0:03:01.640 beautiful pond on it. It had a chance to be 0:03:02.000 --> 0:03:04.400 a new kind of sand hills course because it was 0:03:04.400 --> 0:03:06.200 gonna have water. It wasn't gonna come into play, but 0:03:06.240 --> 0:03:09.600 it had a sense of you weren't just lost in 0:03:09.639 --> 0:03:12.520 the dunes. It really had a special site, easily a 0:03:12.560 --> 0:03:16.800 top ten potential course in America. And we and it 0:03:16.840 --> 0:03:19.400 was like, I can't remember, it was like four hundred 0:03:19.440 --> 0:03:22.480 dollars an acre and it was seven hours from it 0:03:22.600 --> 0:03:25.520 was five hours from the Denver airport by car, and 0:03:25.600 --> 0:03:28.040 we had this ambitious idea to create the Outpost Club, 0:03:28.080 --> 0:03:30.560 and it was gonna be for twenty and thirty somethings. 0:03:30.880 --> 0:03:33.360 We're gonna build it on the cheap. We were gonna 0:03:33.400 --> 0:03:37.320 have one thousand members. We're gonna pay six thousand dollars 0:03:37.320 --> 0:03:39.880 to join. Dudes are gonna be twelve hundred dollars. Family 0:03:39.880 --> 0:03:46.080 style meals, real sort of bunk house, kind of campground, accommodations. 0:03:46.080 --> 0:03:49.200 It was gonna be this new type of club. And 0:03:49.240 --> 0:03:50.520 we spent a lot of time. We put together a 0:03:50.520 --> 0:03:53.760 beautiful deck, spent a lot of work on it, and 0:03:54.000 --> 0:03:56.640 I can't believe that we we actually thought we were 0:03:56.680 --> 0:03:59.560 going to try to go and raise like six million 0:03:59.600 --> 0:04:03.360 dollars in spring of two thousand and nine, when the 0:04:03.360 --> 0:04:07.640 credit markets were melting, the economy was in terror, there 0:04:07.720 --> 0:04:12.600 was a recession, and we were going around New York 0:04:12.640 --> 0:04:15.440 trying to pitch people on a golf course five hours 0:04:15.440 --> 0:04:18.400 from Bedford, and the more we and then when it 0:04:18.440 --> 0:04:21.080 became a parent that wasn't going to happen. But one 0:04:21.080 --> 0:04:26.039 of the ideas though, is that we were going to 0:04:26.080 --> 0:04:28.800 get members by going all around the country. Because you know, 0:04:28.839 --> 0:04:30.400 from the moment you sort of broke ground to when 0:04:30.400 --> 0:04:32.120 you put a team in the ground is like three years. 0:04:32.960 --> 0:04:35.080 We were going to have events all around the country 0:04:35.080 --> 0:04:39.640 and all the major markets and have member have outings 0:04:39.760 --> 0:04:44.480 and try to recruit members, and sort of the more 0:04:44.520 --> 0:04:46.520 we talked about that, sort of the advice we were 0:04:46.520 --> 0:04:49.760 getting in sort of where it was becoming obvious is 0:04:52.680 --> 0:04:54.680 why not take advantage of the fact that we're on 0:04:54.680 --> 0:04:56.919 the tail end of a thirty year build cycle with 0:04:56.960 --> 0:05:01.080 all the supply, and that participation is way down, and 0:05:01.120 --> 0:05:03.760 that it had everything had been sort of masked by 0:05:03.760 --> 0:05:08.919 a housing bubble, and that there's all this inventory everywhere rotting, 0:05:09.080 --> 0:05:11.559 and that America was ready for sort of the first 0:05:11.600 --> 0:05:14.440 of its kind of an influence, a British influence of 0:05:14.480 --> 0:05:19.000 having unaccompanied visitor play an American golf needed it. It 0:05:19.040 --> 0:05:22.560 wasn't ready for it because clubs still have a hang 0:05:22.640 --> 0:05:26.520 up about who's actually coming. And we sort of pivoted 0:05:26.520 --> 0:05:28.680 in this idea of like we were going to take it. 0:05:28.760 --> 0:05:32.760 We're going to have a golf society with events and 0:05:32.839 --> 0:05:36.520 access to all these great architecturally significant courses that would 0:05:36.960 --> 0:05:42.680 be willing to have visitors come and play their course 0:05:42.720 --> 0:05:47.279 at at times when tea was available and play quickly 0:05:47.320 --> 0:05:51.200 and there was just nothing wrong with golfers coming and 0:05:51.680 --> 0:05:55.400 enjoying a course and playing, walking, taking caddies and being 0:05:55.440 --> 0:05:58.200 grateful for the opportunity. And that's kind of where it 0:05:58.360 --> 0:06:00.719 kind of turned around and we will I had already 0:06:00.839 --> 0:06:03.960 started the punch Bowl in two thousand and seven. It 0:06:04.000 --> 0:06:06.760 was this alternate shot event at Yale. It was supposed 0:06:06.760 --> 0:06:08.839 to be a thirty six hole event and it was 0:06:08.880 --> 0:06:12.040 to celebrate the end of the year. That was celebration 0:06:12.160 --> 0:06:15.040 of the end of the season, to play with friends, 0:06:15.080 --> 0:06:19.320 to play alternate shots. Stapleford did big carvery lunch, you know, 0:06:20.080 --> 0:06:24.840 real throwback kind of British event. The trophy is the 0:06:24.839 --> 0:06:29.440 punch Bowl. It's a nice prosecco and some orange and 0:06:29.480 --> 0:06:34.280 cranberry juices and real stylish thing and mostly to also 0:06:34.320 --> 0:06:38.160 show off showcase Yale at that perfect week of the 0:06:38.240 --> 0:06:41.200 year in late October when the turf is just absolutely 0:06:41.720 --> 0:06:46.240 flying and every little nuanced break and the greens is 0:06:46.279 --> 0:06:50.760 coming out, and you know, it was this We had 0:06:50.800 --> 0:06:54.839 success with it. It was fourteen people, and then twenty six, 0:06:54.920 --> 0:06:57.600 and then thirty and thirty two, and this past year 0:06:57.640 --> 0:07:01.000 it was one hundred and I think we discovered that 0:07:01.640 --> 0:07:08.440 having having events and and having sort of an unaccompanied 0:07:08.440 --> 0:07:12.120 sort of guest policy and a lot of private clubs 0:07:12.160 --> 0:07:14.440 for people that shared a love of the game was 0:07:14.480 --> 0:07:17.080 a really it was a really good sort of you know, 0:07:18.560 --> 0:07:22.320 you know, evolution of American golf. And so that's that's 0:07:22.320 --> 0:07:24.640 how we felt about it. We always felt like we're 0:07:24.680 --> 0:07:28.840 just you know, encouraging people to treat themselves this real 0:07:28.960 --> 0:07:32.040 special occasion golf and really functioned like a like an 0:07:32.080 --> 0:07:35.640 American version of of a of a British golfing success 0:07:35.520 --> 0:07:39.800 of society with a captain and and a real sort 0:07:39.840 --> 0:07:42.200 of respect for the history and traditions of the game. 0:07:42.280 --> 0:07:45.560 We're I mean, we're just a bunch of daft golfers 0:07:45.560 --> 0:07:47.840 and we have our own tart and tweet and it's 0:07:48.520 --> 0:07:51.680 a really cool thing. It's there's a real sort of 0:07:53.840 --> 0:07:56.360 you know, there's a lot of members support for the 0:07:56.680 --> 0:07:59.600 for this endeavor, and people feel really good about it, 0:08:00.000 --> 0:08:01.800 really proud to be part of it with Will and 0:08:01.880 --> 0:08:05.400 Quinton and we have. Honestly, it's the most ambitious event 0:08:05.480 --> 0:08:08.360 calendar in the five hundred year history of the game. 0:08:08.360 --> 0:08:13.840 We put on like seventy five events a year, fifteen internationals, 0:08:13.880 --> 0:08:16.320 like insane trips like to be a member of the 0:08:16.360 --> 0:08:18.480 Oppos Club is to get an invitation every day to 0:08:18.480 --> 0:08:19.520 an event you can't go to. 0:08:21.080 --> 0:08:25.360 It's it's pretty crazy. I mean, it's I think what 0:08:25.400 --> 0:08:30.080 you've tapped into is people like spending time with other 0:08:30.120 --> 0:08:33.400 people that share the same passion, you know. And it's 0:08:33.440 --> 0:08:36.720 all golf junkies that are you know, just wanting to 0:08:36.960 --> 0:08:39.640 experience playing some of the best course in the world together. 0:08:41.440 --> 0:08:45.200 It's awesome. It's a community, it's you know, all society. 0:08:45.280 --> 0:08:48.360 It's like there's a thousand of them in the UK. 0:08:49.080 --> 0:08:52.240 There should be there should be three thousand in the 0:08:52.320 --> 0:08:53.480 United States. 0:08:53.800 --> 0:08:58.280 It's what do you think about American golf and and 0:08:59.559 --> 0:09:02.239 it compared to say golf in the UK. 0:09:03.440 --> 0:09:07.040 It's obvious we're the most We're so indulgent. If our 0:09:07.080 --> 0:09:10.160 golf is a metaphor for our behavior, then we are. 0:09:10.200 --> 0:09:14.920 We were guilty over maintain turf too fast one, you know, 0:09:15.160 --> 0:09:17.440 David Faye said on the air at Fox they didn't 0:09:17.440 --> 0:09:20.800 get any press agreed that the turf is too tight. 0:09:21.679 --> 0:09:27.839 We've our standards of expectations for greens are just unrealistic. 0:09:28.520 --> 0:09:32.520 It's insane. We're asking for perfection all the time. It's 0:09:32.720 --> 0:09:36.480 it's it's at a cost. It's enough. The fairways don't 0:09:36.520 --> 0:09:39.559 have to be so tight. Shots don't have what are 0:09:39.559 --> 0:09:43.880 we doing? The cost per cost per square yard meter 0:09:44.600 --> 0:09:47.360 can get out of hand. One other thing that no 0:09:47.360 --> 0:09:50.480 one has ever proposed. I wish in America we were 0:09:50.520 --> 0:09:54.199 capable of getting beyond the con able to adopt the 0:09:54.240 --> 0:09:56.840 British concept of the artisan club, where people pitch in 0:09:57.000 --> 0:09:59.560 like for their time and get sort of discounted golf, 0:09:59.600 --> 0:10:01.720 and they were on the courses and they see places 0:10:02.360 --> 0:10:04.560 you can I have like a volunteer sort of aspect 0:10:04.559 --> 0:10:05.520 to a lot of courses. 0:10:05.760 --> 0:10:08.520 You know, I was thinking about that one time. It's like, 0:10:08.800 --> 0:10:11.120 you know, if if twenty members just went out and 0:10:11.480 --> 0:10:13.400 did some work, they could probably make a lot of 0:10:13.400 --> 0:10:14.360 places a lot better. 0:10:15.240 --> 0:10:19.040 You know, sure pitch marks, it just go seed stuff, 0:10:19.280 --> 0:10:21.800 like just pick the stuff that needs to get done. Anyway, 0:10:21.800 --> 0:10:25.480 that's a fascinating concept. I know we're not the classes society, 0:10:26.440 --> 0:10:28.280 but I wish there was a way that we could 0:10:28.280 --> 0:10:31.400 have more junior golfers maybe doing a little bit of 0:10:31.440 --> 0:10:35.000 a of a you know, it's a works project. You 0:10:35.360 --> 0:10:36.880 go out and you work on the course and you 0:10:36.960 --> 0:10:39.720 rake the traps and then get you get some money 0:10:39.760 --> 0:10:43.280 and you play the course. And I'm really one of 0:10:43.320 --> 0:10:47.000 the saddest trends in American golf is is that for 0:10:47.000 --> 0:10:49.040 one hundred years there was a first team. There were 0:10:49.080 --> 0:10:53.360 first team programs everywhere. They were called caddy yards. I 0:10:53.440 --> 0:10:56.640 personally benefited from them, from having caddied at the country 0:10:56.679 --> 0:11:01.000 of a fairfield nineteen like eighty nine, eyeing to ninety 0:11:01.120 --> 0:11:07.560 six or something, and it was fascinating. I can't for 0:11:07.640 --> 0:11:11.360 all those virtues of first the first t you know, 0:11:11.480 --> 0:11:14.200 some of those are pretty offensive campaigns. There was a 0:11:14.280 --> 0:11:17.160 sort of patronizing streak to some of the first tea, 0:11:17.679 --> 0:11:23.200 you know, sort of presentations. And what's more important than 0:11:23.240 --> 0:11:27.600 maybe some kids playing not an unsustainable introduction of golf, 0:11:27.600 --> 0:11:33.320 how about them experiencing a workforce opportunity, internship opportunity of 0:11:33.760 --> 0:11:39.400 cattying and carrying following golf and interacting with adults. And 0:11:41.400 --> 0:11:45.640 that benefit is incredible for teenagers, middle school kids to 0:11:45.920 --> 0:11:48.319 show up and be on time and take pride and 0:11:49.200 --> 0:11:51.040 get and learn and get good at their craft and 0:11:51.080 --> 0:11:55.000 be incentivized. And that to me, I wish there was 0:11:55.040 --> 0:11:57.760 a way we could tomorrow five hundred courses could have 0:11:57.800 --> 0:12:02.000 a middle school high school caddy program. I'm like everything 0:12:02.520 --> 0:12:05.760 that only good things happen in those in those programs 0:12:06.080 --> 0:12:10.760 for kids, only like opportunities open up. Like I'm convinced 0:12:10.800 --> 0:12:11.000 of it. 0:12:11.880 --> 0:12:15.680 Yeah, I agree. I I grew up caddy in too, 0:12:15.960 --> 0:12:18.360 which uh you know, I grew up caddy in a 0:12:19.000 --> 0:12:22.000 good country club in Chicago, And like, I think that's 0:12:22.040 --> 0:12:24.920 part of the reason I like golf architecture so much, too, 0:12:25.360 --> 0:12:27.280 is because I started. I grew up walking around a 0:12:27.280 --> 0:12:29.800 golf course that didn't stink, you know, I just grew 0:12:29.920 --> 0:12:33.080 up carrying bags for members. Like it helped me learn 0:12:33.120 --> 0:12:36.680 how to conversate with different types of people and read 0:12:36.760 --> 0:12:38.200 people and understand them. 0:12:38.440 --> 0:12:38.599 You know. 0:12:38.679 --> 0:12:41.160 When I when I got out of out of college, 0:12:41.240 --> 0:12:43.880 I started doing sales jobs, I understood how to talk 0:12:43.880 --> 0:12:47.040 to people and what people want out of you. You know, 0:12:47.160 --> 0:12:49.400 That's like the biggest thing I think, like the greatest 0:12:49.400 --> 0:12:51.960 caddies are able to do in one hole, know, like 0:12:52.240 --> 0:12:54.760 without asking the guy they're carding for, Like is this 0:12:54.800 --> 0:12:56.760 a guy that I should read their putt for him 0:12:56.960 --> 0:13:00.160 or not? You know, It's like the human skills that 0:13:00.240 --> 0:13:04.320 you develop as a caddy is just understanding people. 0:13:04.640 --> 0:13:09.920 It's unbelievable, the opportunity. Like you're outdoors, you're walking, you're 0:13:09.960 --> 0:13:13.280 watching the game. It's the most sustainable introduction of golf 0:13:13.360 --> 0:13:16.440 is caddying. So while you're sort of watching how to 0:13:16.440 --> 0:13:19.880 do it, you're getting paid, You're watching people gambling, you're 0:13:19.960 --> 0:13:23.400 learning how how the different clubs are used. You're watching 0:13:23.600 --> 0:13:27.120 everything you could possibly learn. You're watching it in the 0:13:27.120 --> 0:13:30.000 course of ten twenty rounds. You're making money. 0:13:29.720 --> 0:13:31.840 You're getting exercise, you're. 0:13:31.679 --> 0:13:36.760 Learning the yeah, and I have so many by the 0:13:36.760 --> 0:13:39.480 way I caddied. I caddied at the Country Cup of 0:13:39.520 --> 0:13:44.480 Fairfield mostly Seth Rayner about as good as, of course, 0:13:44.520 --> 0:13:47.480 can get butchered. It got butchered, and it was still 0:13:47.520 --> 0:13:51.400 some because it's seaside and it still works. It's fabulous. 0:13:52.320 --> 0:13:55.960 I spent years of my life at that place. It 0:13:56.120 --> 0:14:00.760 was so charming par seventy seven sixty three hundred yards. 0:14:00.760 --> 0:14:04.000 I saw Rainer kind of at this. I was first 0:14:04.000 --> 0:14:07.599 introduced to Rayner as an eighth grader caddying at Fairfield, 0:14:07.600 --> 0:14:10.480 and I couldn't believe the fact that they would let 0:14:10.520 --> 0:14:12.720 you if you caddied on the weekend and made money, 0:14:13.160 --> 0:14:15.560 that they let you play the course all day Monday. 0:14:15.559 --> 0:14:19.200 It was like it was this. I couldn't I couldn't 0:14:19.240 --> 0:14:22.040 believe that we could then play like thirty six holes 0:14:22.040 --> 0:14:25.360 on Monday afternoon. It was as great a trade as 0:14:25.360 --> 0:14:29.640 I've ever made, you know, I couldn't believe how pretty 0:14:29.640 --> 0:14:33.720 Fairfield was. Like it had a it's not really a Lynx, 0:14:33.760 --> 0:14:36.920 but it's but it's got a It's got this beautiful 0:14:37.120 --> 0:14:40.720 ridge line from these mansions on the Sasco Hill and 0:14:40.760 --> 0:14:43.240 then it goes down to the Pequot Yacht Club and 0:14:43.280 --> 0:14:47.320 harbor and sensational homes, and then it swings around past 0:14:47.360 --> 0:14:50.440 their beach club to the to the Sasco Beach and 0:14:50.480 --> 0:14:54.160 then Long Island Sound. It's incredible. He to fall in 0:14:54.200 --> 0:14:54.840 love with the game. 0:14:55.120 --> 0:14:57.040 Yeah, that's I mean, it's the same way I did. 0:14:57.240 --> 0:14:59.760 It's like that that it's I don't know, it's crazy. 0:15:00.080 --> 0:15:02.480 I hear people talk about how you should get rid 0:15:02.520 --> 0:15:04.960 of caddy programs altogether because they don't want to pay 0:15:04.960 --> 0:15:06.840 for it. But it's like, God, you know, how much 0:15:06.880 --> 0:15:09.680 worse of the game, worse the game would be without caddies, 0:15:10.520 --> 0:15:14.360 especially like kid caddies. Like that's the best best summer job. 0:15:14.680 --> 0:15:17.720 I remember going back to college, like I caddied, and 0:15:18.520 --> 0:15:20.720 while I was in college too, I'd go back to 0:15:20.760 --> 0:15:24.600 college with just like a big stack of cash, you know, 0:15:25.040 --> 0:15:27.120 and then I'd be and then I'd run. I'd of 0:15:27.160 --> 0:15:31.760 course spend it, be completely irresponsible with it and spend 0:15:31.800 --> 0:15:35.280 it all. But you know that that that getting paid 0:15:35.360 --> 0:15:38.240 cash was something that's so awesome about a kid, you know, 0:15:38.480 --> 0:15:39.560 caddy and it's like you. 0:15:41.080 --> 0:15:43.120 Cash on the barrel, and it was fun to be 0:15:43.160 --> 0:15:44.960 a good caddy. It was fun to help your man, 0:15:45.160 --> 0:15:47.560 like what it was fun to be in the conversation 0:15:47.760 --> 0:15:50.400 for the shot, you know, the club when they took 0:15:50.440 --> 0:15:53.560 your I got good enough quickly enough that they would 0:15:53.280 --> 0:15:54.920 they be like, what do you think I'd be like 0:15:55.720 --> 0:15:57.640 you need to fight the six. You know. It's like 0:15:57.720 --> 0:16:02.480 kind of that's awesome. It's just interacting with adults, like 0:16:02.480 --> 0:16:05.200 looking people in the eye, like, you know, being able 0:16:05.240 --> 0:16:09.320 to sort of absolutely like we cannot underestimate the value 0:16:09.320 --> 0:16:14.400 of communication and personal interaction job interviews. This just type 0:16:14.440 --> 0:16:17.640 of being able to being able to sort of turn 0:16:17.760 --> 0:16:21.360 back and return a conversation that's important. 0:16:23.440 --> 0:16:25.520 Having gotten to know you, it seems like one of 0:16:25.560 --> 0:16:30.320 your other your obviously biggest passions is the golf development 0:16:30.800 --> 0:16:35.440 and project side of the business. What else do you get? 0:16:35.520 --> 0:16:38.080 What else do you have coming up in the future, 0:16:38.160 --> 0:16:39.040 What are you working on? 0:16:39.720 --> 0:16:42.560 I was thinking of this fictional essay about the dirt 0:16:43.160 --> 0:16:48.480 poor golf developer as like just metaphor, and I feel 0:16:48.480 --> 0:16:53.840 like I'm the other dirt poor golf developer. God nothing. 0:16:55.160 --> 0:16:57.960 I think, if you're going to have, like we mentioned earlier, 0:16:58.000 --> 0:17:01.000 if you're gonna have an opportunity being maybe a do 0:17:01.080 --> 0:17:02.960 a couple of projects, maybe only do a few, but 0:17:02.960 --> 0:17:05.240 but have them be really wonderful. And that's how I 0:17:05.280 --> 0:17:08.320 felt about my relationship with the first project that I 0:17:08.359 --> 0:17:11.399 was ever involved with, and it was Bayone. I'm an apologist. 0:17:11.840 --> 0:17:15.000 I think along with Yale Bayone is I'm a member 0:17:15.040 --> 0:17:17.760 of two of the most criminally underrated courses in North America. 0:17:18.359 --> 0:17:22.119 Will does I think? I think Bayone is so sensational. 0:17:22.160 --> 0:17:25.800 It's yelled by the sea. It is got loaded with 0:17:25.880 --> 0:17:30.240 blind shots, quirk, like I challenge you, like I put 0:17:30.240 --> 0:17:31.920 it head to head. It has so many head to 0:17:31.960 --> 0:17:34.960 head wins against courses Bayone does. 0:17:35.200 --> 0:17:36.200 I gotta go see it. 0:17:36.680 --> 0:17:40.240 Oh, It's unbelievable. I'm going a total apologize. I'm in 0:17:40.320 --> 0:17:44.040 the tank and I love it. I love I absolutely 0:17:44.119 --> 0:17:47.119 love that course, and I love taking friends there. And 0:17:47.160 --> 0:17:50.840 it's seaside and it's views are sensational, and it's on 0:17:51.040 --> 0:17:55.840 like next to like oil, you know, refinery tank, you know, containers, 0:17:55.840 --> 0:18:00.600 and like it's unbelievable. It's it's so, it's so there's 0:18:00.640 --> 0:18:04.120 moments that are so genuinely lenksy that it's just it's 0:18:04.160 --> 0:18:07.800 better than so much in the Northeast. And and then 0:18:07.840 --> 0:18:10.879 after Bayonne, I was at Castle Stewart, I lived in Scotland. 0:18:10.920 --> 0:18:15.320 I'd followed up with Mark Carson and and I really 0:18:15.320 --> 0:18:17.919 had a chance to witness one of the great another 0:18:17.920 --> 0:18:22.040 great course being made like full complicated muckshift like Gil 0:18:22.760 --> 0:18:27.320 and you know Mark and collaborating and and Jim Wagner's 0:18:27.359 --> 0:18:30.760 shaping and doing this amazing stuff and the and the incredible, 0:18:31.480 --> 0:18:34.879 credible like location of the property and the vision was 0:18:35.280 --> 0:18:38.720 it was. It was such an such an incredible like 0:18:39.000 --> 0:18:42.400 project to witness, you know, I can't get over it. 0:18:42.960 --> 0:18:45.240 And so after that, I don't know. I one place 0:18:45.240 --> 0:18:50.520 I fell in love with Andy I was was the 0:18:50.560 --> 0:18:53.199 Hooper golf course in the Watkins Tavern. I failed to 0:18:53.320 --> 0:18:56.119 raise the money. I would, but but I'm telling you, listen, 0:18:56.440 --> 0:18:58.840 I'm telling you I spend I just spent enough time. 0:18:59.240 --> 0:19:01.600 I can't. I can't help myself. I can't resist. I 0:19:01.640 --> 0:19:06.439 have my love of historic preservation. That that golf course 0:19:06.520 --> 0:19:10.040 which Dope made it in his Gourmet Choice, but a 0:19:10.440 --> 0:19:14.720 nineteen twenty seven Wayne Styles golf course virtually untouched, still 0:19:14.760 --> 0:19:18.960 like Parth, like seven three thousand and thirty three yards 0:19:19.000 --> 0:19:23.920 like Parth thirty five like. Its clubhouse was the Alexander 0:19:23.920 --> 0:19:27.000 Watkins House from seventeen eighty eight that became the Watkins 0:19:27.080 --> 0:19:31.520 Tavern in seventeen ninety five. It literally the clubhouse was 0:19:31.520 --> 0:19:36.119 a tavern during George Washington's second term. It's incredible, and 0:19:36.160 --> 0:19:37.920 it's as close to the first team in the Ninth 0:19:37.960 --> 0:19:42.160 Green as Marion. It's literally joined at the hip. The 0:19:42.160 --> 0:19:48.919 most beautiful like first tea in America might be the 0:19:48.960 --> 0:19:53.800 first tea at Hooper of a rival reachable for sixty 0:19:53.880 --> 0:19:58.000 seven par five downhill to the left from in front 0:19:58.160 --> 0:20:03.520 of a historic eight teenth century tavern. It's unbelievable. It's 0:20:03.560 --> 0:20:06.720 so I still would love. I think it still could 0:20:06.760 --> 0:20:09.720 use a little rescue. They're they're sort of working it out, 0:20:09.760 --> 0:20:12.639 but it was. It was. It has the chance to 0:20:12.640 --> 0:20:15.720 be one of the most exquisite golf properties anywhere. It 0:20:15.760 --> 0:20:18.920 was as if like the Myopia Hunt Club or where 0:20:18.960 --> 0:20:22.040 the Country Club had like a satellite nine hole location 0:20:22.160 --> 0:20:23.919 up there in the woods of New Hampshire. 0:20:24.680 --> 0:20:28.800 That's not everybody could go play Hooper too. It's like 0:20:29.040 --> 0:20:32.439 twenty bucks. I think it's on my list of twenty 0:20:32.520 --> 0:20:34.080 nineteen steps. 0:20:34.680 --> 0:20:38.320 It's amazing. It has it's greens have so much tilt 0:20:38.359 --> 0:20:42.000 to them. They're flying, and they're and it's and it's 0:20:42.040 --> 0:20:44.760 a there's, it's a it's a course that you could 0:20:44.760 --> 0:20:49.800 play between the ages of eight and a hundred. It 0:20:49.880 --> 0:20:52.600 is amazing. Hooper is amazing. 0:20:53.080 --> 0:20:56.800 I think nine hole courses are so underrated. I think 0:20:56.800 --> 0:20:58.040 it's the right amount of golf. 0:20:58.320 --> 0:21:01.920 I grew up on one South Pine Creek Parth Public 0:21:02.119 --> 0:21:03.960 otherwise ow it was the par three designed by like 0:21:04.040 --> 0:21:06.720 Jeff Cornish in the sixties. It was like a I'm 0:21:06.720 --> 0:21:08.639 not that old, I'm only forty three, but I have 0:21:08.760 --> 0:21:11.880 like I have one of those stories when things were 0:21:11.920 --> 0:21:14.199 cheap and when you had a town resident card in 0:21:14.240 --> 0:21:17.720 nineteen eighty six, when you were eleven. I think to 0:21:17.800 --> 0:21:20.280 play during the week. Might have been a dollar thirty five, 0:21:21.000 --> 0:21:23.520 might have been like nine holes. 0:21:24.840 --> 0:21:28.639 That's I mean, my local course. It was just it 0:21:28.640 --> 0:21:33.520 was an eighteen hole kind of nothing golf course, completely boring. 0:21:34.200 --> 0:21:38.040 But the junior the junior card like for the whole summer, 0:21:38.520 --> 0:21:40.480 Like I could play as much golf as I wanted 0:21:40.520 --> 0:21:44.840 for four hundred dollars. Yeah, Like I could go there 0:21:44.960 --> 0:21:47.600 every single day and play golf for four hundred dollars 0:21:47.640 --> 0:21:50.200 a year. You know, like that's that's a great deal. 0:21:50.320 --> 0:21:52.040 I could play as much as I wanted to. 0:21:53.600 --> 0:21:58.479 This course. This course is fascinating. It had uh it 0:21:58.520 --> 0:22:01.800 had a mix of difficult and the backups were always 0:22:01.800 --> 0:22:04.600 on the long holes, the fourth and fifth holes. I 0:22:04.680 --> 0:22:07.239 spent years of my life just waiting on teas at 0:22:07.240 --> 0:22:09.439 the nine hole par three course, just with friends in 0:22:09.480 --> 0:22:12.359 the shade at the bushes. There was a lot of 0:22:12.400 --> 0:22:17.440 seashells and seagulls and and a lot of marshy hole. 0:22:17.880 --> 0:22:20.240 It was in like the surrounded by fragmighty and stuff 0:22:20.280 --> 0:22:23.040 and the Nike site where you know, in high school 0:22:23.080 --> 0:22:25.359 the kids went to, you know, drink beers in the 0:22:25.400 --> 0:22:29.320 parking lot. But it was it was seaside and it was, 0:22:29.480 --> 0:22:31.480 and there was a lot of downtime when it wasn't 0:22:31.720 --> 0:22:33.800 when it wasn't us whoer busy, But it was also 0:22:34.240 --> 0:22:35.840 it was a really good thing for ten year olds 0:22:35.880 --> 0:22:40.480 to play golf with people septagenarians and octagenarians. It's really 0:22:40.480 --> 0:22:42.399