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Speaker 1: How good or bad you are at something will get

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Speaker 1: you a nickname in law enforcement. I've got a friend

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Speaker 1: down in South Georgia. She crashed her squad car into

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Speaker 1: not one, but two State patrol cars during the same incident.

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Speaker 1: They were brand new State patrol cars. They call her

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Speaker 1: Crash to this day. Now keep in mind that was

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Speaker 1: about years ago. Every card, most invitations, most emails, they

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Speaker 1: will address her as Crash. When I was working for

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Speaker 1: the Crime Commission, they assigned me to Operation Weed and

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Speaker 1: Seed through the Atlanta Police Department. My partner A B.

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Speaker 1: And I we worked in the most dangerous violent neighborhoods

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Speaker 1: in Atlanta at that time, which was Sown three. We

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Speaker 1: worked Thomasville Heights in good Manner and Mechanicsville. There was

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Speaker 1: a pretty dangerous drug dealer there. He had the nickname Geronimo. Well,

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Speaker 1: unbeknownst to me he had given me a nickname. And

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Speaker 1: one afternoon I was working like I always did, pretty

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Speaker 1: much by myself all times, day and night. So this

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Speaker 1: little fella ran up to me and he said, hey,

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Speaker 1: living with seven? And I said, well, hey, buddy, and

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Speaker 1: he took all and I thought living with seven, I thought,

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Speaker 1: that's such strange. And then this kept happening with different people,

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Speaker 1: and I asked my partner A B. I was like,

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Speaker 1: what are they saying? She said, I have no idea.

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Speaker 1: So this went over a little while and I thought,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna have to ask somebody because I'm not able

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Speaker 1: to figure it out. I went up to one of

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Speaker 1: my folks in the neighborhood that I had known really

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Speaker 1: since before I even got out there as part of

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Speaker 1: my official capacity, and I asked him, why are they

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Speaker 1: calling me living with seven? And he said, they're calling

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Speaker 1: you snow white. So eventually, the longer I worked, they

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Speaker 1: dropped the living with and I just was called seven.

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Speaker 1: So there's a lot of folks in this one pocket

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Speaker 1: of eight years of my career. That's how they know me,

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Speaker 1: and that's how they will still refer to me. Clay

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Speaker 1: Bryant earned his nickname Cold Case Clay because he's just

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Speaker 1: that good at solving old cases. There's even a joke

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Speaker 1: that in the state of Georgia, if you kill somebody,

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Speaker 1: don't throw them in a whale, because Clay will find

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Speaker 1: you and arrest you for it. Again, these nicknames, these monikers,

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Speaker 1: a lot of times it's because you might have messed

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Speaker 1: up something, but sometimes it's just because you're the best

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Speaker 1: there is at it. Last week, y'all heard from Chief

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Speaker 1: Clay Bryant in the Gwendoline Moore case where a woman

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Speaker 1: had been murdered and thrown in a well. Remarkably, Chief

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Speaker 1: had a second case where a body had been thrown

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Speaker 1: in a well. This was absolutely a career featured stamp

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Speaker 1: of legendary status. Chief, Welcome back to Zonne Heaven. Well,

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Speaker 1: thank you again, Cheryl for the invitation. Actually, I've so

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Speaker 1: enjoyed talking about the last one, and maybe I maybe

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Speaker 1: folks would like to hear this one. It's it's a

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Speaker 1: wonderful case. I say, a wonderful case. It's a tragic case.

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Speaker 1: Actually it came to us because of the first case.

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Speaker 1: We had finished this Okay, you just finished it up

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Speaker 1: and got a fair amount of publicity from him. Within

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Speaker 1: a couple of months. Beach Candle like us had just

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Speaker 1: bought a brand new Dodge pickup truck. I mean, University

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Speaker 1: of Georgia Red. You know, he's a George alum and

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Speaker 1: he h A storm came through a summer storm was

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Speaker 1: kind of um out of character, and but it did

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Speaker 1: a fair amount of damage, knock to pile out and

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Speaker 1: it blew a huge top out of a pine tree

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Speaker 1: in pa yard right across his new pickup truck, squashed

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Speaker 1: it flat as a pancake. And uh, of course he

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Speaker 1: was in the office the next day. He was winding

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Speaker 1: about the truck and he said, well, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: I guess what. I need to get somebody to look

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Speaker 1: at it. And I said, well, now let's take it

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Speaker 1: over to Tim Wilkerson, West Georgia Paint Body. Well, we

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Speaker 1: got Pete's truck, the tops and not completely off of it,

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Speaker 1: He's sitting in it, and away we go over to

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Speaker 1: the body shop. It looked like something with the coal

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Speaker 1: haines coming down the road, you know. And uh, we

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Speaker 1: got there and we talked and they talked about the

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Speaker 1: insurance and taking care of the truck and this and

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Speaker 1: that and the fact it was probably total. And at

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Speaker 1: the end of the conversation then works and says, is

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Speaker 1: there any way y'all could look into my dad's case.

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Speaker 1: And I knew of the Fred Wilkeson case, but I

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Speaker 1: never had any involvement in it, he said, you know,

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Speaker 1: they were just we never felt like it got what

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Speaker 1: it deserved, and even there had always been some speculation

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Speaker 1: about his involvement with a lady and this and that,

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Speaker 1: and uh, but I did I didn't know the particulars.

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Speaker 1: I looked at Pete, and Pete says, yeah, if you'd

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Speaker 1: like for us too, would look at it again, Claire,

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Speaker 1: look at it. I told him, I said, I'd like

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Speaker 1: to come and sit down with you, and you tell

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Speaker 1: me what you know, tell me some history about it,

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Speaker 1: you know, about what was going on. And God, it

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Speaker 1: was so enlightened when I when I did that, and

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Speaker 1: he told me of the family's lives and this and that,

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Speaker 1: and it was, you know, a book in itself. And

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Speaker 1: he told me that there was a young lady that

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Speaker 1: had come forth, the lady that he had been involved with.

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Speaker 1: She had enticed Fred. You know that there's a thing,

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Speaker 1: and I don't I call the savior syndrome. And some

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Speaker 1: people get drawn into they find it, especially people people

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Speaker 1: in law enforcement, the E. M. S. Service, fire service,

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Speaker 1: those people, those types of people are especially drawn in. Uh.

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Speaker 1: Tim Dad was the fire chief of the volunteer fire

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Speaker 1: department at wear a cross road and Troupe Kent. He

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Speaker 1: had gotten at work. He uh There's a lady that

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Speaker 1: came to work in their office and she started having,

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Speaker 1: you know, one tragedy after another, and her and her

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Speaker 1: husband were having trouble in this and that, and all

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Speaker 1: of a sudden, I think Fred makes it his business

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Speaker 1: to try to rescue her. Let me be clear for everybody,

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Speaker 1: we're talking about Fred Wilkerson, forty nine year old truck

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Speaker 1: driver who van November of so you get hooked up

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Speaker 1: on this case. May of two thousand three, that's correct.

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Speaker 1: He vanished in on Thanksgiving night. Was the last time

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Speaker 1: anybody saw Fred Wilks and a life if Carl was

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Speaker 1: found at the Atlanta airport with uncashed payroll checks in it,

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Speaker 1: that kind of thing. And how they came to this conclusion,

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Speaker 1: I guess it's because of no contact. But there was

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Speaker 1: a tremendous amount of conjecture of what had happened in Whine,

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Speaker 1: you know, his relationship with this woman that had gone

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Speaker 1: sour and Fred was never seen again. There were some

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Speaker 1: situations where some folks in Las Vegas said they thought

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Speaker 1: they thought they'd seen him getting onto an elevator, and

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Speaker 1: you know, just ghost sightings, you know how people are

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Speaker 1: sometimes and we've all run into him. I know you

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Speaker 1: have suro where person interjects themselves into something they know

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Speaker 1: nothing about. You know, you could say, hey, somebody robbed

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Speaker 1: a train downtown last night, and some fool let's say

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Speaker 1: I saw the whole damn thing absolutely, and then there

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Speaker 1: you have to and to dispel it. You've got to

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Speaker 1: go down that road because if you don't, it's gonna

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Speaker 1: come to you a trial anyway. So it rocked along

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Speaker 1: for seven years. Bridge's gone no contact. So the woman

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Speaker 1: he had been involved with that that situation was o.

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Speaker 1: She files to have him declared dead because she has

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Speaker 1: a vested interest in it. She had an insurance policyl

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Speaker 1: for whatever reason, that didn't raise any red flags. Well,

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Speaker 1: let's go over some of those flags again. So you're

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Speaker 1: telling me he vanishes before Thanksgiving, doesn't show up for Christmas,

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Speaker 1: his car has found a month after he's last seen alive,

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Speaker 1: with at least two uncashed paychecks. That's right, check totally

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Speaker 1: about a thousand dollars. Okay, Well, who gets on an

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Speaker 1: airplane to go start a new life and didn't take

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Speaker 1: their last thousand dollars? I have no idea, but for

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Speaker 1: some reason that became the story that law enforcement went

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Speaker 1: with And then on top of that, the insurance. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, but you're getting paid out an insurance policy

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Speaker 1: on a man that you haven't known that long. And

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Speaker 1: they were not married, correct, No, no, but they had.

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Speaker 1: They had actually been in and out of a relationship.

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Speaker 1: She had divorced and he had divorced. And she was

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Speaker 1: kind of person, not just with Fred, but with other people.

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Speaker 1: She would draw them into some type of scheme or

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Speaker 1: this or that, and she tried to control their finances

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Speaker 1: and that type of thing and everything in the world.

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Speaker 1: You would I would think that would be glaring to say,

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Speaker 1: your boys, you all need to look at this into

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Speaker 1: the ground. But that it never did. And uh. In

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Speaker 1: talking with Tim, he tells me, he says, uh. McLay says,

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Speaker 1: one of the girls that I went to school with.

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Speaker 1: She actually when the probate action to having declared dead

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Speaker 1: was going on, it came out in the newspaper. Of

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Speaker 1: course she saw the article. Well, she was living in

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Speaker 1: Goose Creek, South Carolina. Well, Tim told me that, I said,

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Speaker 1: what happened that took place? She contacted Tim, who contacted

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Speaker 1: Tim's attorney, who contacted law enforcement and said this girl

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Speaker 1: says that she on Thanksgiving weekend, the day after Thanksgiving,

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Speaker 1: was contacted by this woman, Connie Queeden's to pick her

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Speaker 1: up at the airport. She had to take some folks

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Speaker 1: up there. They had come to visit her. And this

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Speaker 1: is the person that Fred was at this situation with.

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Speaker 1: Now here's the kicker bread on. Earlier in that week

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Speaker 1: or in the latter part of the week before, he

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Speaker 1: had borrowed money to put a swimming pool and finished

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Speaker 1: some work at that house. Well alone went in default

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Speaker 1: because Fred had They had worked together at the job,

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Speaker 1: and she demanded Fred leave that job, and he did

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Speaker 1: and he went to work for a fast food merchandise. Again,

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Speaker 1: everything in the world to me pointed straight at her.

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Speaker 1: And don't get me wrong, as she was interviewed and

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Speaker 1: she always had a story and this and that and

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Speaker 1: this was it would have been in or was in

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Speaker 1: and this should have been the straw that broke the

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Speaker 1: camel's back. When this girl comes up and says, she

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Speaker 1: called me and I picked her up that morning after

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Speaker 1: Fred disappeared at the airport. For whatever reason, it never

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Speaker 1: went anywhere. And uh Tim told me that one day

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Speaker 1: about lunchtime. The next day I'm in Goods Creek, South

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Speaker 1: Carolina talking to her, and she tip lays it out.

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Speaker 1: I come back. I talked with Pete about what we got,

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Speaker 1: he said, Jesus. Now, she had two kids. They were

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Speaker 1: I went to school. They all these kids, you know,

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Speaker 1: they were in uh, socially acquaintances, and they went to

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Speaker 1: each other's homes and this and there, and there's sixteen

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Speaker 1: seventeen years old. She immediately starts getting these kids to

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Speaker 1: start dragging debris and stuff, throw it in the well

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Speaker 1: and tries to set it on fire. But of course

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Speaker 1: there ain't no action down there, so all it does

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Speaker 1: is smolder. So that all that's taking place in and

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Speaker 1: she's telling me the story. Now, I'm sorry in two

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Speaker 1: thousand two, but this she came forth with this story

200
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Speaker 1: in we rarely hear about a cold is being solved

201
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Speaker 1: nowadays that didn't involve DNA or ancestry. Connecting these dots

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Speaker 1: with that type of evidence seems to be pretty much

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Speaker 1: now standard operating procedure. But Clay Bryant has solved not one,

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Speaker 1: but two cold cases with no DNA, no murder weapon,

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Speaker 1: no footprints, no fingerprints, no new witnesses, no deathbed confessions,

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Speaker 1: He became an expert and solvability factors. He would look

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Speaker 1: at what he had and instantly no what he needed

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Speaker 1: to push that case into the end zone. Clay's gift

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Speaker 1: is being able to talk to people and pull information

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Speaker 1: out of them that nobody's ever heard to stack that

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Speaker 1: information in just this pyramid of justice. He does it

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Speaker 1: better than anybody. And a lot of times when people

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Speaker 1: say what is the best tool I can work on

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Speaker 1: to have as a cold case investigator? I tell him talking?

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Speaker 1: Can you talk to people? Do people instinctively trust you?

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Speaker 1: Do they want to be around you? Clay Bryant is

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Speaker 1: the best I've ever seen. I'd get a guy that

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Speaker 1: who she did the same thing where she and gets him,

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Speaker 1: said we need to go into a business together, and

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Speaker 1: she gets to finance and she gets him too with

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Speaker 1: a peaceful equipment. He had to finish filling in the whale.

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Speaker 1: I was told that. So I contact him and he said,

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Speaker 1: the wales right here, chief, He said, you see that

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Speaker 1: clump of bushes out there. And of course she fell

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Speaker 1: out with this guy and she took his money and

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Speaker 1: tried to take his equipment and everything. And he said,

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Speaker 1: right out there where that clump of bushes is because

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Speaker 1: we had ridden over there, and he that's where the

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Speaker 1: will is. With the information that the young lady had

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Speaker 1: given me, went to judge and we got a search

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Speaker 1: war to excavate that well. We got there that morning.

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Speaker 1: She had another guy in the house then, and she

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Speaker 1: had gotten to come down to business with And I

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Speaker 1: never forget what he said. I knocked on the door,

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Speaker 1: and myself and Captain grizz with the Sheriff's office, he went,

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Speaker 1: he was with me and he says, Ms. Connie's not

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Speaker 1: here right now. She's gone tell town to involving her

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Speaker 1: Christian work. Well, Connie gets back from her Christian work.

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Speaker 1: I tell her, Connie, we have a search warrant. We're

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Speaker 1: gonna search your property. Well, it's already been done for

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Speaker 1: everybody always looked and said you know this and that.

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Speaker 1: I said, but we're gonna look a little cloture this time.

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Speaker 1: We're sitting there with a track o and on and

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Speaker 1: a dozier and sitting out there on a low boy.

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Speaker 1: And I said, we're gonna art at that well on

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Speaker 1: top of the hill. And she says, if he's in it,

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Speaker 1: I don't know anything about it. Well, Chief I gotta

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Speaker 1: ask you something. Did you look at that man and

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Speaker 1: think to yourself, buddy, you got no idea. I just

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Speaker 1: saved your life if he stayed in the game long enough.

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Speaker 1: The thing that that got Fred was, you know, because

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Speaker 1: that long living to fault, he filed a suit against her.

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Speaker 1: Ain't I kind of got lost in my conversation and uh,

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Speaker 1: but he filed a suit against her, and like the

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Speaker 1: first part of the week, it was served on her. Well,

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Speaker 1: the weekend, the girl that her name was Lisa hold

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Speaker 1: On Connie had gotten her father and mother to come

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Speaker 1: down from West Virginia, where they had lived earlier, because

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Speaker 1: she wanted to help him get into a business. Mr Holdeman.

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Speaker 1: He saw this thing about the money and her control

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Speaker 1: and whatnot, so that he opted out of that. But

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Speaker 1: they still remain, you know, friends too. I guess you'd say,

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Speaker 1: Lisa Holdeman, it's just amazed her. You know that Connie

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Speaker 1: still would want to be involved in their business and everything.

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Speaker 1: The the weekend that Fred disappeared, her husband that he

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Speaker 1: she had brought back into the scene and the boys,

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Speaker 1: they were all supposed to go to Florida to visit

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Speaker 1: a relative. Well at the last minute, she says, I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna stay here. I gotta work, and she tells Lisa

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Speaker 1: Holdaman's mother, she said, I'm staying here. I need to

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Speaker 1: protect my property, and I expect that protection came at

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Speaker 1: a very high expense. To Fred Wilkerson, the chief, my

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Speaker 1: mind is just blown because every time you give us

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Speaker 1: another element, another event, another piece of evidence, It's like,

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Speaker 1: this ain't a flag. This is a parade of flags,

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Speaker 1: and this is one of the ones that that that

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Speaker 1: I lost some friendships over. Is you know, you got

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Speaker 1: a woman that won't half the money for a house.

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Speaker 1: He didn't cash to payroll checks, he abandoned his car.

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Speaker 1: Nobody has seen him alive ever. Again. They might have

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Speaker 1: thought they saw him in Las Vegas from a distance,

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Speaker 1: but nobody's talked to him. She had an insurance policy

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Speaker 1: against him, and then she knew that he was suing her.

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Speaker 1: So other stuff was gonna come out in deposition and whatnot.

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Speaker 1: If somebody can't see that this thing was done for money,

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Speaker 1: I'm at a loss. It goes back to that thing.

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Speaker 1: You know what I said earlier. You know, I'd like

288
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Speaker 1: God like to claim being a genius for so all

289
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Speaker 1: in these cases, they you know, they and there were

290
00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:40,119
Speaker 1: a couple that were a little more twisted than this,

291
00:18:40,320 --> 00:18:45,480
Speaker 1: but anyway that was in this case, it just made

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Speaker 1: sense and we were able to Andre And let me

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Speaker 1: tell you something. When we executed the search warrant, we

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Speaker 1: find two microcosette tapes. And those micro cosette tapes she

295
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Speaker 1: had since she had been keeping them since nineteen seven

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Speaker 1: and this is two thousand and two. Well one of

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00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:08,280
Speaker 1: them was later than that because she had taken her

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Speaker 1: husband back and one of those tapes for her and

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Speaker 1: I guess you they were a trophy. In that first

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Speaker 1: video of micro cossette tape, she's talking to Fred Wilkerson,

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Speaker 1: who had just filed a lawsuit on her. She calls him,

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Speaker 1: in her words, Fred Wilkerson, you son of a bitch.

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Speaker 1: I will kill you. And she had that microcust that

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Speaker 1: she had now kept for down your twenty years, and

305
00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:39,680
Speaker 1: we were able to retrieve it and have it at

306
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Speaker 1: court and she all we also dealing with her husband.

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Speaker 1: Your name was Gary Cuen's. He goes to Florida that weekend.

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Speaker 1: He comes back in an hour question of him. He

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00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:55,760
Speaker 1: comes back and there is a pistol laying in the

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Speaker 1: floor downstairs. Of course, he picks the pistol up the perp.

311
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Speaker 1: So that was was guess who's gonna take the weapon

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00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:07,920
Speaker 1: for this murder if this thing gets discovered, the gun

313
00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:12,159
Speaker 1: that killed him, But it never comes to be an issue.

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Speaker 1: The other tape is him and her arguing about the

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Speaker 1: a divorce settlement, and in that tape it says I

316
00:20:22,040 --> 00:20:26,840
Speaker 1: want my Walter pistol, and he says, Connie, there were

317
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Speaker 1: three Walter pistols, your author pistol that I sold at

318
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Speaker 1: a gun show. The two that I bought from Marcus

319
00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:38,320
Speaker 1: Smith Wickens executive serial numbers I gave the boys, and

320
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Speaker 1: the one that I sold at the gun show was

321
00:20:41,119 --> 00:20:45,359
Speaker 1: one that someone may have used at Fred's time. He

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00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:47,560
Speaker 1: was straightforward with us and helped us in every way.

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Speaker 1: We're able to establish a fact to a moral's certainty

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Speaker 1: that he was in Florida during the time that Fred

325
00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:56,600
Speaker 1: Wilson was probably cute, But sometimes you have to make

326
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Speaker 1: a deal with the devil to get to which you know, yea,

327
00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:07,840
Speaker 1: there is nothing better than making that call. When a

328
00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:13,200
Speaker 1: cold case finally has an arrest made, Once that detective

329
00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:17,280
Speaker 1: has the person in custody and takes them to jail

330
00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:21,320
Speaker 1: and they are able to call that family or go

331
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Speaker 1: by and visit in person and tell them the person

332
00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:31,040
Speaker 1: that murdered their loved one has been arrested. Is a

333
00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:37,400
Speaker 1: powerful thing. It is often career defining. It's the reason

334
00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:40,280
Speaker 1: you do what you do in a cold case squad.

335
00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:44,199
Speaker 1: This is the trophy, this is the end result, This

336
00:21:44,359 --> 00:21:47,199
Speaker 1: is the gold medal. This is what it's all for.

337
00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:53,320
Speaker 1: All the sleepless nights, all the eighteen hour days, not

338
00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:55,200
Speaker 1: being able to get it out of your mind for

339
00:21:55,440 --> 00:22:00,080
Speaker 1: twenty years, thirty years, this is what it's for. That

340
00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:03,879
Speaker 1: didn't y'all roll out on the gurney all of his

341
00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:08,240
Speaker 1: bones at trial, you know, And I was kind of

342
00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:11,360
Speaker 1: shocked that they let us do it. Judge Bill Lee

343
00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:16,040
Speaker 1: was on the bench and as part of the evidence,

344
00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:19,160
Speaker 1: uh that we brought into court, we brought fred Wilckson

345
00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:23,760
Speaker 1: into court anatomically correct with a whole effect in the

346
00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:27,119
Speaker 1: back of the skull, and Dr Frederick Snow with the

347
00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:33,119
Speaker 1: g B I UH wonderful pathologists and he helped me

348
00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:35,080
Speaker 1: in several cases. And I just can't say enough about

349
00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:40,040
Speaker 1: him and Dark Spear. He is one of the foremost

350
00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:45,639
Speaker 1: forensic anthropologists in the country. And you know, he had excavated, uh,

351
00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:49,199
Speaker 1: mass Graves and Bosnia and things like that, and it's just,

352
00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:51,679
Speaker 1: you know, a tremendous asset to the g B I

353
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Speaker 1: And eventually he left the g B out. I think

354
00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:57,520
Speaker 1: he went to the University of Tennessee. Well, he recognized

355
00:22:57,560 --> 00:23:00,680
Speaker 1: that injury, didn't he as an assassination? Yes, sir, he's

356
00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:03,119
Speaker 1: oh absolutely, he said this and he said, this is

357
00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:06,320
Speaker 1: a classic keyhole deffect in the back of the man's skull.

358
00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:08,600
Speaker 1: Said he was shot at close range. He was straight

359
00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:12,280
Speaker 1: up assassinated, absolutely, and and and and it found as

360
00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:15,919
Speaker 1: it came to the back to that same thing after

361
00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:21,480
Speaker 1: he left Thanksgiving dinner with his sister and his kids.

362
00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:25,480
Speaker 1: And France was a family guy. I mean, baseball coach.

363
00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:28,960
Speaker 1: Uh maybe not the best husband in the world, but

364
00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:33,720
Speaker 1: baseball coach. Never Mr Dance Recital, you know, nothing in

365
00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:38,159
Speaker 1: the farthest thing, community oriented guy, the one thing in

366
00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:41,440
Speaker 1: the world. It would never, no matter what happened, would

367
00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:45,720
Speaker 1: he ever have just walked away from his family. We

368
00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:47,920
Speaker 1: were lucky to come up with the evidence that we did.

369
00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:50,359
Speaker 1: We were able to try and convict her. It was

370
00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:55,280
Speaker 1: kind of a situation where, uh, Judy went out and

371
00:23:55,400 --> 00:24:00,679
Speaker 1: I honestly think that it was a situation where it

372
00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:03,240
Speaker 1: took them longer to elective Phoneman than it did to

373
00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:07,080
Speaker 1: come to a guilty verdict. In three hours they came

374
00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:10,200
Speaker 1: back and please tell me, y'all played the tape in court.

375
00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:13,480
Speaker 1: We did, and you know it was just it was,

376
00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:16,760
Speaker 1: you know, I got your moment. You know, Tim Wilkson,

377
00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:22,720
Speaker 1: his sister Tracy, and their children. They were able to

378
00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:26,760
Speaker 1: bury their father, a decent Christian bearer. I developed a

379
00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:29,240
Speaker 1: relationship with them, and you know they're my friends, and

380
00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:34,160
Speaker 1: you know, I've never been any prouder back just that thing,

381
00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:38,280
Speaker 1: like with Alan Moore, never been any prouder than to

382
00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:44,119
Speaker 1: be able to experience that with them, as tragic as

383
00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:47,080
Speaker 1: it was. You know, everybody says, you know, well you're

384
00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:51,000
Speaker 1: that closure. You started talking about losing your children or

385
00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:56,439
Speaker 1: your parents to some absolutely unnecessary act. I don't think

386
00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:59,440
Speaker 1: there's anything that you could say is ever a closure,

387
00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:02,040
Speaker 1: but I think it gets to a point of finality,

388
00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:05,879
Speaker 1: you know, I think they got there and it was

389
00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:09,879
Speaker 1: just one of those deals and back this, you know

390
00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:13,120
Speaker 1: I said before about you know, I had a couple

391
00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:18,159
Speaker 1: of guys after this case they are ahead. Was it

392
00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:23,239
Speaker 1: outfit associated press call and they you know, they had

393
00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:26,080
Speaker 1: a big thing about the Atlanta Journal Constitution. Did them

394
00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:29,600
Speaker 1: think that's what the cold case Clay came from was

395
00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:32,480
Speaker 1: a feature article with them? There were a couple of

396
00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:35,640
Speaker 1: folks that early on in this case that were attached

397
00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:38,160
Speaker 1: to it and my friends and never spoke to me again.

398
00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:40,800
Speaker 1: Oh Ji, if he even wrote a letter to Pizza,

399
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:42,560
Speaker 1: as long as I have at the d a's office,

400
00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:46,119
Speaker 1: that they would not be a healthy working relationship between

401
00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:50,639
Speaker 1: the officer in the share of So I'll never understand it.

402
00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:54,679
Speaker 1: There you have it, y'all. A lifetime of studying people

403
00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:59,720
Speaker 1: and places and crimes leads to solving two cold cases,

404
00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:04,800
Speaker 1: given victims family's answers and justice for the people that

405
00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:10,200
Speaker 1: they love and they lost decades ago. And I want

406
00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:14,720
Speaker 1: every young investigator to remember the one thing Chief said.

407
00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:18,440
Speaker 1: Remember when he said he got a tip from a

408
00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:22,800
Speaker 1: woman in Goose Creek, South Carolina. He was there the

409
00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:26,879
Speaker 1: next day. Let me let me tell you. You know,

410
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:32,080
Speaker 1: we talked about my dad and he told me one thing.

411
00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:35,359
Speaker 1: He says, Son, you gotta work crime when crime is

412
00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:40,760
Speaker 1: and and it's true. You know, people might talk to

413
00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:44,280
Speaker 1: you today and they might not tomorrow, you know. And

414
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:48,000
Speaker 1: just as conversely in some old cases where they're changing

415
00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:51,000
Speaker 1: and they'll talk to you now, but you've got to go,

416
00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:53,399
Speaker 1: and you you can't say, well, we're gonna schedule this

417
00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:56,480
Speaker 1: next Thursday. We'll talk to this person. If you've got

418
00:26:56,560 --> 00:26:59,760
Speaker 1: something you better will talk to him today. And my dad,

419
00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:04,920
Speaker 1: you know, we talked again about everything in this case

420
00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:09,080
Speaker 1: about Connie Queeding brings something to mind me and it's

421
00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:11,640
Speaker 1: something I think it's just that you'll like to hear.

422
00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:14,440
Speaker 1: We were right along one afternoon, you know, we're talking

423
00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:17,320
Speaker 1: about loves lost and bad decisions made in their lives

424
00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:20,720
Speaker 1: and things like that. And it looked at me and

425
00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:22,879
Speaker 1: he smiled. He says, well, sudden, let me tell you,

426
00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:26,159
Speaker 1: he said, And this applied to Fred Wilkson as much

427
00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:29,000
Speaker 1: as anybody that I've ever heard in my life. He said,

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00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:32,480
Speaker 1: let me tell you, he says. You know, love is

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00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:34,920
Speaker 1: but a two drop from heaven. Probably me is. Some

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00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:36,800
Speaker 1: days it's just as soon fall on a horse turb

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00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:41,520
Speaker 1: it had a geranium. Uh, But that was my dad.

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00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:45,080
Speaker 1: But again, thank you. I appreciate more than anything in

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00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:47,399
Speaker 1: the world being able to talk to you. And this

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00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:50,680
Speaker 1: book's under contract. So there'll be a story about Fred

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00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:52,720
Speaker 1: Wilkson coming to shortly and and it will be the

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00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:56,320
Speaker 1: Blackwood as well. All Right, y'all, you gotta work crime

437
00:27:56,600 --> 00:28:00,600
Speaker 1: when crime is chief. I appreciate you so much, and

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00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:03,960
Speaker 1: I'm gonna end Zone seven like I always do with

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00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:07,639
Speaker 1: a quote from somebody from my Zone seven And this

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00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:12,720
Speaker 1: comes from someone that I admire greatly, Elena Burrows, host

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00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:18,359
Speaker 1: of Crimocene Confidential on Investigation Discovery. She's also a former

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00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:24,440
Speaker 1: Crimocene investigator. Stay in the crime scene, don't sit in

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00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:30,400
Speaker 1: your car, don't stand outside, Stay in the scene. Wait

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00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:34,960
Speaker 1: for the chaos to clear, and in the silence you

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00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:40,800
Speaker 1: will hear and see more than you initially did by

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00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:46,240
Speaker 1: just being physically present. I'm Sheryl McCollum and this is

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00:28:46,320 --> 00:29:01,960
Speaker 1: Zone seven. Next week we're going to tackle a case

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00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:09,920
Speaker 1: unlike any other in history. There has never been a

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00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:14,000
Speaker 1: case like this. So bring your pad and pencil, get

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00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:17,920
Speaker 1: some rest, hydra, because we're gonna need you all on

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00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:22,440
Speaker 1: this one. We are taken on the case of Melissa Wolfenberger.