WEBVTT - Short Stuff: Robert Johnson and the Devil

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<v Speaker 1>Hello, and welcome to short Stuff. There's Chuck, there's Jerry.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm Josh, and this is Welsh. I already said, short stuff,

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<v Speaker 1>I've already screwed up and wasted time, squandered precious time. Chuck,

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<v Speaker 1>let's just get started. Bannon in it? Oh yeah, in it?

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<v Speaker 1>Like I said, Oh, yeah, who was the I can't

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<v Speaker 1>remember the Simpsons character? Now? What a dummy bleeding gums Murphy.

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<v Speaker 1>Well he played the sacks. Yeah, I know, but I

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<v Speaker 1>don't know. He was a jazz man, not a blues man.

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<v Speaker 1>He was a hepcat. He was super happy. He wore

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<v Speaker 1>like sandals year round without socks with suits, I believe.

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<v Speaker 1>So yeah, this is about the blues, and specifically Robert Johnson. Um.

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<v Speaker 1>And this is I have an interesting relationship with the blues. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>and that I love occasionally putting on like Sun House

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<v Speaker 1>or Robert Johnson or something like that, um and enjoy

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<v Speaker 1>it for a bit, but then I have to turn

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<v Speaker 1>it off. And I also recognize that blues is the

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<v Speaker 1>foundation of rock and roll, like full stop, but I

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<v Speaker 1>also hate like I just call it the blind Willie's Blues.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a place here in Atlanta. This legendary blues barber Like,

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<v Speaker 1>it's like the blues version of smooth jazz. Yeah, it's

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<v Speaker 1>like where you see like the fifty two year old

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<v Speaker 1>and flip flops and cargo shorts up there playing the blues.

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<v Speaker 1>That's the stuff that makes me hate the blues despite

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<v Speaker 1>loving rock and roll and recognizing that blues is the

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<v Speaker 1>foundation of that. I'm with you, so you can collective,

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<v Speaker 1>you can. It is complicated. Actually, that's really really good

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<v Speaker 1>way to put it. All right, So we're talking about

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<v Speaker 1>Robert Johnson and whether or not he sold his soul

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<v Speaker 1>to the devil at the Crossroads to gain more talent

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<v Speaker 1>as a blues guitarist and singer. Spoiler, that did not happen,

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<v Speaker 1>because there is no there is no devil. What I've

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<v Speaker 1>wasted my life. But we're gonna talk a little bit

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<v Speaker 1>about Robert Johnson's history and uh, and he's certainly man

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<v Speaker 1>who sang the blues for a reason, a lot of reasons. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>he had a pretty rough life. So he was as

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<v Speaker 1>a little kid. He he got moved from place to place,

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<v Speaker 1>mostly between uh little towns in Mississippi and I believe

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<v Speaker 1>Memphis and um he uh, he lost his dad early

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<v Speaker 1>and I think his dad left, his stepfather abused him. Um,

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<v Speaker 1>and he uh, yeah, he just kind of had a

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<v Speaker 1>rough especially after he became an adult. He married his girlfriend, Virginia,

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<v Speaker 1>and they had a kid, and Virginia and the baby

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<v Speaker 1>died during childbirth, and so he kind of, um got

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<v Speaker 1>unmoored after that and very very quickly, um started singing

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<v Speaker 1>the blues more than ever, became a pretty hardcore alcoholic,

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<v Speaker 1>I believe as a result. So yeah, he he definitely

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<v Speaker 1>had it rough, and he lived the life that that

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<v Speaker 1>you could live to be the foundation of the Blues basically,

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<v Speaker 1>which he grew up to be. And they they think

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<v Speaker 1>he even he's a member of the twenty seven club,

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<v Speaker 1>perhaps the first even if you really think about it.

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<v Speaker 1>But he died at twenty seven years old, supposedly out

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<v Speaker 1>of and you know, records are tough on guys like

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<v Speaker 1>Robert Johnson, but supposedly was poisoned by the husband of

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<v Speaker 1>one of his lovers on you know, when he was

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<v Speaker 1>twenty seven years old. Right. So, but in that time, though,

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<v Speaker 1>he managed to create like a body of work that,

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<v Speaker 1>like you said, is is basically pointed to is one

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<v Speaker 1>of the major blocks in the foundation of rock and roll. Um,

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<v Speaker 1>this is in the thirties that he was he was

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<v Speaker 1>playing prolifically, right, Yeah, and he you know, he followed

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<v Speaker 1>in the footsteps of Uh. You know, he wasn't the

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<v Speaker 1>first blues guitarist by any means. No, No, he wasn't.

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<v Speaker 1>He wasn't. In fact, Um, there's the story, and this

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<v Speaker 1>is the whole thing where it's like, you know, why

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<v Speaker 1>why did he sell the sol of double? What's the

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<v Speaker 1>what's the story? We're gonna tell you this story. The

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<v Speaker 1>whole thing starts back in and robin Inville, Mississippi, and

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<v Speaker 1>there is a duke joint where the blues is being

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<v Speaker 1>played by a couple of legends, um sonhouse who you mentioned, Uh?

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<v Speaker 1>And I think who else was there that night? Willie

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<v Speaker 1>Brown was playing that night and these guys were already

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<v Speaker 1>established as Delta Blues Mett right and Um. The house

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<v Speaker 1>was packed, and I guess in between sets, a very

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<v Speaker 1>young Robert Johnson, uh came up to the stage and

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<v Speaker 1>grabbed and I'm sure the stage is just a chair

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<v Speaker 1>that was on the same level as the other chairs

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<v Speaker 1>or wherever people were sitting and understanding, Um, and he

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<v Speaker 1>grabs the guitar not even his guitar, I mean the audacity, right,

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<v Speaker 1>and he starts playing, and because it's Robert Johnson, you

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<v Speaker 1>would assume that everybody was just stopped, transfixed at how

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<v Speaker 1>amazing he was. That is not how it went down

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<v Speaker 1>at all. As a matter of fact. No, he wasn't

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<v Speaker 1>very good. Uh, and Sonhouse, you know, even says, uh,

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<v Speaker 1>why don't he said that? People came and told him,

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<v Speaker 1>why don't some of y'all go down and make that

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<v Speaker 1>boy put that thing down? He's running us crazy, right

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<v Speaker 1>because his playing was so bad and this is humiliating enough,

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<v Speaker 1>they went over and basically said, you you not only

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<v Speaker 1>need to stop playing, you need to leave this juke joy.

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<v Speaker 1>You just showed you're actually not not cool enough to

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<v Speaker 1>even sit here as like an audience member anymore. So

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<v Speaker 1>he left and he disappeared, and he vanished. And then

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<v Speaker 1>a year later, as legend has it, right, uh, at

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<v Speaker 1>another blues place again, Willie Brown and um Sonhouse, we're

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<v Speaker 1>playing and Robert Johnson shows up, and he shows up

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<v Speaker 1>with a guitar, his own guitar this time, and he

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<v Speaker 1>starts playing and it's like nothing anyone else has ever heard.

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<v Speaker 1>This guy has turned insanely good, almost overnight, and he's

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<v Speaker 1>got a seventh string on his guitar and everyone was

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<v Speaker 1>like what yeah, and he used it to great effect.

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<v Speaker 1>Eric Clapton put it, um kind of succinctly. He said that, Um,

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<v Speaker 1>he was simultaneously playing a disjointed baseline on the low strings,

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<v Speaker 1>rhythm on the middle rings, and lead on the trouble strings,

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<v Speaker 1>which had the effect of sounding like there were multiple

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<v Speaker 1>people playing when it was really just him on that

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<v Speaker 1>seven string guitar. That's how fast and how varied the

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<v Speaker 1>music he was playing was, and no one had ever

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<v Speaker 1>heard anything like it. Yeah. So uh. The legend is

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<v Speaker 1>that he went down to the crossroads during that time,

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<v Speaker 1>sold his soul to the devil, and Satan granted him

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<v Speaker 1>with these special talents in exchange for his soul. But

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<v Speaker 1>like you already spoiled that, that actually probably didn't happen.

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<v Speaker 1>So should we take a break. We should take a break.

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<v Speaker 1>We'll do some more explaining when we get back. M okay, chuck.

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<v Speaker 1>So we've established that there actually isn't a devil unless

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<v Speaker 1>it's the greatest trick you ever pulled. We may have

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<v Speaker 1>just fallen victim to that, but um, not only, so

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<v Speaker 1>does that mean that that story didn't happen in that sense,

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<v Speaker 1>it probably didn't even happen to Robert Johnson. There's seems

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<v Speaker 1>to have been a case of mistaken identity because there's

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<v Speaker 1>a story of an earlier blues man who's not related

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<v Speaker 1>to Robert Johnson, but at the same last name. His

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<v Speaker 1>name was Tommy Johnson. And if you're a fan of

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<v Speaker 1>the movie, oh brother, were art thou and you were

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<v Speaker 1>only familiar with Robert Johnson like me, you may have

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<v Speaker 1>been wondering all this time why they didn't just call

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<v Speaker 1>that character Tommy Johnson Robert Johnson, since he was clearly

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<v Speaker 1>based on Robert Johnson. Well, it turns out, I know

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<v Speaker 1>now that the Coen Brothers did their homework. They tend

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<v Speaker 1>to do that. So, yeah, Tommy Johnson was in that

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<v Speaker 1>movie and had sold his soul to the devil in

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<v Speaker 1>that movie. It's been covered elsewhere. That was a great

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<v Speaker 1>movie to me. Crossroads with Ralpha Maccio was a good well.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean it was one of those HBO movies that,

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<v Speaker 1>as a young kid who got a guitar at thirteen,

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<v Speaker 1>watched like fifty times. I thought it was pretty great.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, Steve. I isn't it? Oh? Yeah, he plays

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<v Speaker 1>Satan's right hand man and lead shredder in the in

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<v Speaker 1>the main cutting heads competition at the end. Did Pat

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<v Speaker 1>Morita play Satan? He totally should have. No. Who was it?

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<v Speaker 1>Oh man, he's been in stuff. If you saw him,

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<v Speaker 1>he be like, oh he plays a good Satan wings Houser. No,

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<v Speaker 1>Tree Williams No, I don't know. Then those are the

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<v Speaker 1>only three actors you know? Uh, Tommy Chong nor anyway,

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<v Speaker 1>I haven't seen it in a while. I'd like to

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<v Speaker 1>check it out. But that there's always sort of been

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<v Speaker 1>this blues legend all the way around is where the

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<v Speaker 1>crossroads you go meet the Devil. You sign up for

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<v Speaker 1>a lifetime of hell fire in exchange for um. But

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<v Speaker 1>what seems to be like a good deal on earth,

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<v Speaker 1>even though the tail end of that tale always ends

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<v Speaker 1>is like they die young or something. Right. Don't fall

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<v Speaker 1>for it, kids, that's right, Like it's supposedly Jimmy Page

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<v Speaker 1>sold is sold at the devil too? Sure? Who didn't

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<v Speaker 1>you know? So? Um? The story, though, you know, seems

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<v Speaker 1>to have originated with Tommy Johnson. And there's a there's

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<v Speaker 1>a an article, there's this site Chuck called um Paranormal Academic,

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<v Speaker 1>which is just like a dream come true for me.

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<v Speaker 1>I just found it. Um. It was linked to in

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<v Speaker 1>this house Stuff Works article, and I mean, you're not

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<v Speaker 1>going to tinfoil hat dot com anywhere, No, not anymore.

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<v Speaker 1>I've kind I've resended my membership um so on Paranormal Academic.

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<v Speaker 1>There's a an excerpt from an interview with Tommy Johnson's

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<v Speaker 1>brother who said, Tommy told me the story of what happened,

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<v Speaker 1>and he supposedly went down to the crossroads. He said,

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<v Speaker 1>anybody can do this. You get onto the crossroads, get

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<v Speaker 1>there a little before midnight to make sure they're on time,

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<v Speaker 1>which is hilarious that he included a little detail be

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<v Speaker 1>be punctual and um, if you bring your own instrument,

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<v Speaker 1>like great big black man will show up, take your

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<v Speaker 1>instrument from you, tune it for you, hand it back

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<v Speaker 1>and the deal is done. That's how it happens. And

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<v Speaker 1>that's what the legend became. And but then at some

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<v Speaker 1>point it seems to have been transposed onto from Tommy

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<v Speaker 1>Johnson onto the later on much greater known Robert Johnson.

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<v Speaker 1>And Robert Johnson seems to have been like sure Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>that happened to me, and you can really see that

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<v Speaker 1>in some of the song titles of the body of

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<v Speaker 1>his work. Yeah, hell hound on my trail, Me and

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<v Speaker 1>the Devil blues um. Obviously the song Crossroads, Crossroad blues

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<v Speaker 1>up jumped the devil. Here's the thing though, The singing

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<v Speaker 1>about the devil and talking about the devil in that

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<v Speaker 1>community at that time was very commonplace, and Robert Johnson

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<v Speaker 1>was talking about his demons, not literal demons, just his

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<v Speaker 1>demons in life because he had a rough go and

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<v Speaker 1>then you know, fell into alcoholism and chasing women and uh,

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<v Speaker 1>probably believed that the hell hounds were on his tail

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<v Speaker 1>or I'm sorry, on his trail right, in his it's right,

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<v Speaker 1>the devil had given him. So um. That's the interpretation

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<v Speaker 1>by his grandson, Stephen Johnson, who also has an answer

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<v Speaker 1>for that question. Okay, alright, fine, but yeah, but besides

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<v Speaker 1>the supernatural, how could somebody go from zero to hero

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<v Speaker 1>blues legend wise in just a year like that? And

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<v Speaker 1>Stephen Johnson's like, actually it is probably more like three years,

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<v Speaker 1>Like yeah, he actually probably was kicked out of that

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<v Speaker 1>juke joint for playing badly and he probably did come

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<v Speaker 1>back and blow those same people away. But it wasn't

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<v Speaker 1>a year is about three years, and he didn't go

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<v Speaker 1>sell a soul of the devil. He went and studied

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<v Speaker 1>under a legendary guitarist named Ike Zimmerman, whose family confirms

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<v Speaker 1>that Robert Johnson was there all the time around that time. Yeah. So,

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<v Speaker 1>like the the boring but also inspiring answer was practice. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>don't he got good because he played a ton of guitar.

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<v Speaker 1>Probably uh, because he wanted to get better, but probably

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<v Speaker 1>also due to a little bit of shame and wanted

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<v Speaker 1>to go back there and make a name for himself.

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<v Speaker 1>So he practiced and practiced in practice like anybody who

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<v Speaker 1>was good at anything does. And that is the true

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<v Speaker 1>legacy of Robert Johnson, legendary blues man. Right right, well,

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<v Speaker 1>thanks for listening. You can read about this article on

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<v Speaker 1>how stuff Works. That's where we got this one, right Chuck,

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<v Speaker 1>That's right, all right, Well then until next time, Short

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<v Speaker 1>stuff away. Stuff you should know is production of iHeart

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<v Speaker 1>Radio's How Stuff Works. For more podcasts for my Heart Radio,

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<v Speaker 1>visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you

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