WEBVTT - Trans Trailblazers: Monica Helms & Darlene Wagner - Part One 0:00:00.560 --> 0:00:02.960 I woke up one morning and the image of the 0:00:03.000 --> 0:00:06.080 flag came into my mind, and I got up and 0:00:06.160 --> 0:00:08.360 threw it out, and a week later I had the 0:00:08.360 --> 0:00:09.360 first trans flag. 0:00:14.680 --> 0:00:18.600 Hello listeners, and welcome back to Beauty translated. This week 0:00:18.720 --> 0:00:21.680 marks the end of another beautiful season of our show, 0:00:21.880 --> 0:00:23.880 and I can't think of a better way to close 0:00:23.920 --> 0:00:26.480 out than with a two part interview with a major 0:00:26.760 --> 0:00:30.520 trans trailblazer, the woman who created the trans Pride flag, 0:00:30.880 --> 0:00:34.559 Monica Helms. Her wife Darling Wagner, also joins us for 0:00:34.600 --> 0:00:37.760 an enlightening chat with those who have made history and 0:00:37.840 --> 0:00:40.640 brought us to where we are today. Without further ado, 0:00:40.840 --> 0:00:47.040 here is the wonderful Monica Helms. So thank you both 0:00:47.080 --> 0:00:48.280 for being here with me today. 0:00:48.520 --> 0:00:50.159 Well, thank you for inviting us. 0:00:50.320 --> 0:00:56.840 Yeah, thank you. Monica had been working with Dallas Denny, 0:00:57.040 --> 0:01:02.080 who was publishing Monica's writing in Chris and Tapestry TSTV 0:01:02.240 --> 0:01:05.959 Tapestry magazines, much of which you can easily access to 0:01:06.080 --> 0:01:10.560 Dan thanks to digital trenched into archive dot net. She 0:01:10.680 --> 0:01:13.320 quickly became a well known activist and thought leader on 0:01:13.400 --> 0:01:16.040 trans issues in the late nineteen eighties and into the 0:01:16.120 --> 0:01:17.040 nineteen nineties. 0:01:17.720 --> 0:01:21.000 I spent eight years in the Navy, served on two submarines. 0:01:21.280 --> 0:01:24.840 I was married and had two sons, and now I 0:01:24.880 --> 0:01:29.720 have four grandsons. I transitioned in nineteen ninety seven, so 0:01:29.760 --> 0:01:31.880 I've been living this life for quite a long time 0:01:32.120 --> 0:01:35.840 my true self and I was an activist in the 0:01:35.880 --> 0:01:41.160 trans community, mostly for trans veterans. CO founded a organization, 0:01:41.280 --> 0:01:46.200 the Transgender American Veterans Association, and also oh yeah. 0:01:46.400 --> 0:01:50.559 Created the transflat Yeah absolutely created the trans Pride flag, 0:01:50.560 --> 0:01:58.120 which is huge. Yes, Monica Holmes was the first person 0:01:58.240 --> 0:02:01.680 to create a flag that would unite the entire trans community. 0:02:02.120 --> 0:02:06.240 The entire LGBTQ plus community was already represented under the 0:02:06.280 --> 0:02:10.680 famous rainbow flag created by Gilbert Baker in nineteen seventy eight, 0:02:11.000 --> 0:02:14.200 and today the community has more than ninety individual flags 0:02:14.240 --> 0:02:18.200 to represent the individual communities under the rainbow flag. You've 0:02:18.240 --> 0:02:21.720 seen it, you know it. It's as simple and beautiful 0:02:21.760 --> 0:02:25.120 as the rainbow flag before it. Two blue stripes followed 0:02:25.120 --> 0:02:27.720 by two pink in the middle and a singular white 0:02:27.720 --> 0:02:28.600 stripe at the center. 0:02:33.560 --> 0:02:37.720 I was born in South Carolina, but I wasn't raised here. 0:02:38.080 --> 0:02:40.119 Spent most of my life in Arizona. 0:02:40.440 --> 0:02:42.760 I think I read that you returned to South Carolina 0:02:42.800 --> 0:02:45.120 and the military. And was that around the time you 0:02:45.160 --> 0:02:46.079 started transitioning. 0:02:46.680 --> 0:02:50.000 No, you don't transition into villagary. Well, that's true, that's true, 0:02:50.360 --> 0:02:53.480 especially not in the nineteen seventies. But I discovered who 0:02:53.520 --> 0:02:53.920 I was. 0:02:54.800 --> 0:02:57.320 When we say back then, it wasn't even that long 0:02:57.320 --> 0:03:00.519 ago that trans individuals had to fit a certain mold 0:03:00.600 --> 0:03:03.960 in order to be given treatment to begin transitioning. It's 0:03:04.000 --> 0:03:07.480 thanks to activists such as Monica Dallastinni and many before 0:03:07.520 --> 0:03:11.120 them that we have the freedom from medical gatekeeping to 0:03:11.200 --> 0:03:15.240 access treatment for ourselves as trans people, a freedom that 0:03:15.400 --> 0:03:18.200 is slowly being reversed in this country state by state, 0:03:18.880 --> 0:03:21.400 just like many other freedoms that women have gained in 0:03:21.440 --> 0:03:22.440 the past. 0:03:25.320 --> 0:03:28.239 But I didn't have a name to it, There was 0:03:28.360 --> 0:03:30.960 no name for it back then. But I did know 0:03:31.040 --> 0:03:34.000 that if the Navy caught me dressing as a woman, 0:03:34.320 --> 0:03:35.320 they would kick me out. 0:03:35.720 --> 0:03:38.000 Around the time that you discovered who you were and 0:03:38.040 --> 0:03:40.480 you realized that this was your true self and you 0:03:40.560 --> 0:03:43.040 had to keep that hidden for a while, what was 0:03:43.080 --> 0:03:43.840 that like for you. 0:03:44.440 --> 0:03:48.880 Well, you know, just to had to make sure that 0:03:48.920 --> 0:03:53.200 any of the things that I had for dressing up 0:03:53.520 --> 0:03:56.400 would be well hid in someplace. But you see, at 0:03:56.400 --> 0:03:59.960 the time, I didn't realize that I was a train 0:04:00.520 --> 0:04:04.520 gender woman because one of the things that would have 0:04:04.640 --> 0:04:07.680 given me away would have been my attraction to men, 0:04:07.960 --> 0:04:11.840 which I was not. And so in the nineteen eighties, 0:04:11.880 --> 0:04:15.680 I thought I was a heterosexual cross dresser. But my 0:04:15.760 --> 0:04:18.159 wife wasn't too thrilled about any of that. 0:04:19.000 --> 0:04:21.200 Yeah, and back then there was a lot of gatekeeping 0:04:21.240 --> 0:04:25.240 around who could transition exactly, and if you were attracted 0:04:25.279 --> 0:04:28.960 to women, then they were less likely to give you 0:04:29.000 --> 0:04:32.599 access to transition, right. Yeah, And of course that's changed 0:04:32.600 --> 0:04:35.120 for the better now, but yeah, that's a challenge that 0:04:35.160 --> 0:04:38.920 you had to live with for a while. Exactly soon 0:04:39.000 --> 0:04:41.719 Monica would find herself in Atlanta and close to the 0:04:41.720 --> 0:04:46.200 home base of Dallastani and aegis, the American Educational Gender 0:04:46.279 --> 0:04:47.600 Information Service. 0:04:48.440 --> 0:04:51.359 One day, I believe it or not, something tell me 0:04:51.400 --> 0:04:54.520 I had to leave Phoenix and the job that I 0:04:54.600 --> 0:04:59.599 had there was a long distance operator for Sprint, and 0:04:59.720 --> 0:05:02.200 I see the writing on the wall that long distance 0:05:02.240 --> 0:05:07.080 operators were not long for this world. So I looked 0:05:07.080 --> 0:05:11.920 around and found places in Atlanta that was still far 0:05:12.000 --> 0:05:16.680 to Sprint, and so I transferred. But I had already 0:05:16.880 --> 0:05:21.320 created the flag before that. Well, first of all, I 0:05:21.400 --> 0:05:24.360 didn't create it for the trans community because I didn't 0:05:24.400 --> 0:05:27.640 know whether it would be popular or not. So I 0:05:27.800 --> 0:05:31.040 was having dinner with Michael Page, which is the person 0:05:31.040 --> 0:05:34.240 who created the Bisexual Pride flag, and he said that, 0:05:34.360 --> 0:05:37.520 you know, the trans community could use a flag too, 0:05:37.680 --> 0:05:41.120 and we talked about it, and he said the best 0:05:41.160 --> 0:05:43.760 thing is to keep it simple because the least amount 0:05:43.760 --> 0:05:48.160 of stitches, the chiefer it is to buy, and chiefers 0:05:48.200 --> 0:05:51.520 sell because back then they weren't silk screening flags. 0:05:51.560 --> 0:05:55.000 Back then, they were stitching the individual yeah colors together. 0:05:55.600 --> 0:05:58.520 And so about two weeks later, I woke up one 0:05:58.560 --> 0:06:01.080 morning and the image of the flag came into my 0:06:01.200 --> 0:06:06.440 mind and I got up and drew it out. It 0:06:06.480 --> 0:06:09.640 looked really good, and I contacted the people that made 0:06:09.720 --> 0:06:14.000 the Bisexual Pride flag and they sent me swatches and 0:06:14.160 --> 0:06:16.800 I picked the swatches out and a week later I 0:06:16.839 --> 0:06:19.880 had the first trans flag. Everybody was asking what's that? 0:06:19.920 --> 0:06:22.040 What's that? And I had to explain to him just 0:06:22.200 --> 0:06:26.119 a transgender flag. And the colors mean this light blue 0:06:26.240 --> 0:06:30.160 is traditional color for baby boys, and pink traditional color 0:06:30.200 --> 0:06:32.920 for baby girls. And the white in the middle is 0:06:32.960 --> 0:06:37.560 for those that are non binary or have no gender. 0:06:37.160 --> 0:06:40.280 At all, gender non conforming. Yes, yeah, but. 0:06:40.320 --> 0:06:44.920 See some of those terms were invented back then, right. Yeah. 0:06:45.160 --> 0:06:47.560 Along the way, I had to change the meaning of 0:06:47.600 --> 0:06:50.800 the white stripe to be with whatever is the current today. 0:06:51.160 --> 0:06:55.000 Yeah, because now there's its own non binary flag, yes, 0:06:55.279 --> 0:06:57.400 which I guess there wasn't when you made the trans 0:06:57.400 --> 0:06:58.320 flag exactly. 0:06:58.480 --> 0:07:02.560 Yeah, there's like ninety different flags that represent people in 0:07:02.600 --> 0:07:03.479 this community. 0:07:03.920 --> 0:07:07.880 How do you feel about the significance of flags for 0:07:08.440 --> 0:07:13.320 a movement or for getting a point across? Is there importance? 0:07:13.360 --> 0:07:17.240 There? There is importance. And I'm also on the board 0:07:17.360 --> 0:07:21.520 of the Gilbert Baker Foundation. Gilbert Baker was the one 0:07:21.560 --> 0:07:26.880 that created the rainbow flag, and this board is to 0:07:26.920 --> 0:07:30.400 help to promote all the different flags and to promote 0:07:30.400 --> 0:07:34.280 the rainbow flag. And I feel that it's a very 0:07:34.320 --> 0:07:39.600 important organization because it helps to fight the hatred towards 0:07:39.960 --> 0:07:44.080 LGBTQ people, and the flags are some of the things 0:07:44.080 --> 0:07:49.720 that help us to show our loyalty in ourselves. 0:07:50.880 --> 0:07:53.680 When you debut the flag in two thousand and people 0:07:53.720 --> 0:07:57.160 were very curious about it. It caught on quickly. How 0:07:57.200 --> 0:07:59.840 do you feel like we have progressed or even maybe 0:08:00.040 --> 0:08:03.360 regressed as a community since then, and since everyone's like 0:08:03.440 --> 0:08:05.760 adopted it, how do you feel like things have changed 0:08:05.800 --> 0:08:06.280 since then? 0:08:06.680 --> 0:08:12.280 Well, I didn't realize that it was being popular until 0:08:13.640 --> 0:08:18.960 twenty thirteen when I started looking at pride across the 0:08:19.840 --> 0:08:23.880 world and I started seeing the trans flag in places 0:08:24.040 --> 0:08:29.760 and colors, the trans colors, and I'm going, WHOA, this 0:08:29.960 --> 0:08:35.960 is interesting. I mean, it really surprised me. And now 0:08:36.000 --> 0:08:40.760 I've seen the flag on every continent, including Antarctica. The 0:08:40.800 --> 0:08:43.800 only two flags that have been shown on Antarctica are 0:08:43.800 --> 0:08:46.040 the Rainbow flag in the trans flag. 0:08:46.920 --> 0:08:50.280 Seeing her flag's colors in every country, on every continent 0:08:50.360 --> 0:08:53.880 even proved that what it stands for is in fact 0:08:54.040 --> 0:08:57.640 present in culture is worldwide. Monica knew that what she 0:08:57.720 --> 0:09:00.320 had created was a significant symbol of a moon men 0:09:00.520 --> 0:09:03.720 and had earned its place in the history of human civilization. 0:09:04.960 --> 0:09:09.520 So in twenty thirteen, I said, oh, no, I have 0:09:09.679 --> 0:09:12.960 the original flag. I need to find a place to 0:09:13.000 --> 0:09:17.880 put it so it'd be safe. So I decided to 0:09:17.880 --> 0:09:21.640 start at the top and contacted the Smithsonian. And the 0:09:21.679 --> 0:09:26.120 Smithsonian was just starting to collect LGBTQ items, and so 0:09:26.200 --> 0:09:29.200 they were interested in this and I had to tell 0:09:29.280 --> 0:09:33.120 them all about the flag and all about me, because 0:09:33.160 --> 0:09:36.200 they don't just want you to give something. They want 0:09:36.200 --> 0:09:39.000 to know about the people that donate. They want to 0:09:39.040 --> 0:09:42.160 know the history of this person. And they do bring 0:09:42.160 --> 0:09:45.400 it out occasionally for various reasons to show. 0:09:45.400 --> 0:09:48.319 For maybe like trendsday of visibility, or remember. 0:09:48.280 --> 0:09:51.920 Very yeah, various things of that nature. And August nineteenth 0:09:52.000 --> 0:09:54.880 is the day I created the flag, and was actually 0:09:54.920 --> 0:09:57.880 the day I ended up donating it to the Smithsonian 0:09:58.280 --> 0:10:02.680 fifteen years later. Oh that's a transgender flag day. 0:10:03.120 --> 0:10:05.000 That's awesome. August nineteenth. 0:10:05.120 --> 0:10:06.160 August nineteenth. 0:10:06.320 --> 0:10:09.640 I wanted to ask you about another flag that is 0:10:09.640 --> 0:10:10.440 a newer flag. 0:10:10.880 --> 0:10:13.360 I know which one you're gonna be talking about. 0:10:14.559 --> 0:10:16.800 We're going to take a quick break here, listeners. When 0:10:16.800 --> 0:10:32.360 we come back, Monica and I talk more flags and 0:10:32.440 --> 0:10:36.160 we're back. I wanted to ask you about another flag 0:10:37.040 --> 0:10:38.160 that is a newer flag. 0:10:38.480 --> 0:10:41.080 I know which one you're gonna be talking about. 0:10:41.880 --> 0:10:43.720 Is it okay if we talk about the progress flag? 0:10:44.040 --> 0:10:48.880 Yes, And you'll get negative responses from me, that's. 0:10:48.720 --> 0:10:51.720 Fine because I personally don't love the Progress flag myself, 0:10:51.960 --> 0:10:54.440 and I want you to share your honest opinions. About 0:10:54.440 --> 0:10:56.360 it because I have some opinions about it too. 0:10:56.640 --> 0:11:00.280 Well, there's more than just opinions. There's the fact that 0:11:01.200 --> 0:11:04.840 the guy that created it, Dan Quaysar, and what he 0:11:04.920 --> 0:11:10.319 did was he made it a copyrighted flag, so people 0:11:10.520 --> 0:11:14.200 have to pay more for the flag, more for the design. 0:11:14.720 --> 0:11:18.480 Companies can't use it without you know, paying money for it, 0:11:18.760 --> 0:11:22.600 and every other flag that's out there is was given 0:11:22.640 --> 0:11:22.959 to the. 0:11:22.920 --> 0:11:26.160 Community as free to use public domain. 0:11:26.559 --> 0:11:31.560 Second of all, he didn't even have the courtesy of 0:11:31.679 --> 0:11:34.960 contacting me and said I want to use your colors 0:11:35.040 --> 0:11:39.400 in my flag. I probably would have been okay by 0:11:39.440 --> 0:11:42.280 if he asked, but he never did. And now he's 0:11:42.280 --> 0:11:44.160 making money off of something that I. 0:11:44.200 --> 0:11:48.079 Created, right, which you never even sought to see a 0:11:48.200 --> 0:11:49.360 profit on to begin with. 0:11:50.200 --> 0:11:56.600 And so this is not a we're we're not very 0:11:56.640 --> 0:12:01.040 happy that people those of us at the Guilt Baker Foundation, 0:12:01.559 --> 0:12:06.360 though officially they don't see anything about it, but it's 0:12:06.400 --> 0:12:11.120 definitely something that everybody is upset about. 0:12:11.520 --> 0:12:15.120 Yeah, and I think even I'm a younger trans person, 0:12:15.120 --> 0:12:18.280 I'm a younger LGBT person, and I've seen the introduction 0:12:18.360 --> 0:12:21.040 of the progress flag, and initially I wanted to be 0:12:21.520 --> 0:12:24.400 excited about it. But once you learn about the fact 0:12:24.440 --> 0:12:27.160 that it's copyrighted and you have to license it for 0:12:27.240 --> 0:12:30.079 a fee and all of that, that is very It's 0:12:30.120 --> 0:12:33.719 kind of the antithesis of what we want as a community, right. 0:12:34.640 --> 0:12:36.640 And then another thing too that I feel like is 0:12:36.679 --> 0:12:38.840 interesting about the progress flag is I feel like it 0:12:39.840 --> 0:12:41.240 and I don't know if you feel this way, but 0:12:43.440 --> 0:12:46.600 I feel like the rainbow flag was already including of everyone. 0:12:47.440 --> 0:12:50.280 Yeah. Well, see, now there's something that I have an 0:12:50.360 --> 0:12:54.400 analogy for that. I look at the rainbow flag like 0:12:54.840 --> 0:12:59.280 the American flag, and all the other flags in the 0:12:59.320 --> 0:13:04.559 community are like state flags. So the rainbow flag includes everybody, 0:13:05.280 --> 0:13:08.760 and then you have your own individual flag for your 0:13:08.800 --> 0:13:10.240 own personal right. 0:13:10.640 --> 0:13:13.240 So it's almost like it was an unnecessary addition. 0:13:13.760 --> 0:13:16.000 Yeah, he was trying to be inclusive and and he 0:13:16.160 --> 0:13:20.880 ended up with something that looked a little ugly. 0:13:21.640 --> 0:13:23.360 The other thing about it too, is that it was 0:13:23.440 --> 0:13:28.960 updated within the same year to include the intersex flag, 0:13:29.800 --> 0:13:33.000 and then it was updated again to include the Umbrella 0:13:33.120 --> 0:13:36.240 for sex Workers on the flag. And in my opinion, 0:13:36.360 --> 0:13:39.120 and I think a lot of young people that are 0:13:39.160 --> 0:13:41.240 watching this happen, it's almost like it's never going to 0:13:41.280 --> 0:13:43.960 be inclusive enough, Like we're just going to continue to 0:13:44.040 --> 0:13:47.560 update that Progress flag until it looks like a quilt 0:13:47.600 --> 0:13:50.080 of some kind, you know, yeah, does it feel that way? 0:13:50.240 --> 0:13:54.000 Or I just like I didn't like it originally and 0:13:54.679 --> 0:13:58.280 I'm not going to like anything that's updated. So you know, 0:13:58.440 --> 0:14:04.920 it's a to me, it would be very useless to 0:14:05.080 --> 0:14:08.280 use it, And you know, stick with the rainbow flag. 0:14:10.040 --> 0:14:12.600 And if you know, you want to show your own 0:14:12.640 --> 0:14:17.640 colors or bisexual flag or trans flag, whatever those are, 0:14:17.800 --> 0:14:19.040 it's important too. 0:14:22.560 --> 0:14:26.120 The spirit that lies behind a symbol is important. It 0:14:26.200 --> 0:14:28.680 is this spirit that allows the message that the symbol 0:14:28.720 --> 0:14:32.040 represents to fully wrap its arms around a group of people. 0:14:32.840 --> 0:14:35.560 While the Progress Flag was created with a spirit that 0:14:35.720 --> 0:14:39.280 was about personal, notoriety and profit at the expense of 0:14:39.280 --> 0:14:42.840 the message, it is no surprise that it ultimately failed 0:14:42.960 --> 0:14:45.040 to be as inclusive as it was trying to be. 0:14:45.600 --> 0:14:49.360 When Monica created the trans Pride Flag, she understood the 0:14:49.400 --> 0:14:52.240 importance of the symbol's spirit and being unified by it, 0:14:52.640 --> 0:14:57.360 and today the original Pride flag, in all its elegant simplicity, 0:14:57.920 --> 0:15:05.760 still unites everyone under the LGBTQ plus umbrella. Do you 0:15:05.800 --> 0:15:09.800 feel like the trans flag is more important than it 0:15:09.840 --> 0:15:10.440 has ever been. 0:15:11.240 --> 0:15:15.160 I feel that it. Yeah, it definitely helps. I see 0:15:15.200 --> 0:15:18.400 it at all these protests that are out there, you know, 0:15:18.960 --> 0:15:26.760 protesting bands on gender confirming healthcare, and and now Florida 0:15:26.760 --> 0:15:30.120 has gone to the point where they get band gender 0:15:30.160 --> 0:15:34.600 confirming healthcare for all adults and every every trans person. 0:15:35.120 --> 0:15:39.080 Yeah yeah, and everyone is losing their healthcare providers in Florida. 0:15:39.440 --> 0:15:41.520 Texas is trying to do the same thing where it's 0:15:41.640 --> 0:15:46.080 they're making it basically untenable for doctors to perform gender 0:15:46.120 --> 0:15:50.960 affirming care. How do you feel like, what do you 0:15:51.040 --> 0:15:53.520 think is a way forward for us as a community 0:15:53.560 --> 0:15:54.080 in all of this? 0:15:55.680 --> 0:15:59.720 Vote? Yeah, don't vote for anybody that has an R 0:15:59.840 --> 0:16:05.080 and in front of their name, Okay, because you know 0:16:05.160 --> 0:16:09.920 we're looking at I mean, I'll just say it. Ronda 0:16:10.040 --> 0:16:13.840 Santis is a Nazi. Yeah, he is a full out Nazi. 0:16:14.160 --> 0:16:18.920 He's doing things that Nazi Germany did in the thirties. Yeah, 0:16:19.000 --> 0:16:22.880 banning books, and he wants to have a register of 0:16:23.040 --> 0:16:24.400 transgender people. 0:16:24.760 --> 0:16:26.480 Yeah. So, which is an alarmed you know what? 0:16:26.600 --> 0:16:27.960 You know what that leads to? 0:16:28.360 --> 0:16:32.880 Absolutely, Yeah, it's a it's alarming, and it's it's terrifying, 0:16:33.040 --> 0:16:35.960 and I think in twenty twenty four, we're just going 0:16:36.000 --> 0:16:40.760 to continue to as the presidential campaign ramps up, it's 0:16:40.800 --> 0:16:43.880 just going to continue to be more and more difficult 0:16:43.920 --> 0:16:46.400 for trans people. I think as these things get talked 0:16:46.400 --> 0:16:47.200 about in the public. 0:16:47.920 --> 0:16:51.240 Yeah, we're even thinking of moving really out of Georgia. 0:16:51.320 --> 0:16:54.200 Yeah, I'm sorry to hear that. And how long have you? 0:16:54.280 --> 0:16:55.280 How long have you lived here? 0:16:55.680 --> 0:16:59.920 Since two thousand and Darlene's been here most of her. 0:17:00.600 --> 0:17:03.760 Yeah, because this is where you were raised, right, Yeah. Wow. 0:17:04.640 --> 0:17:07.840 Darlene Wagner is Monica's wife, and as we're both lifelong 0:17:07.920 --> 0:17:11.720 george Natives, I felt connected to her. Here's Darlene. 0:17:12.520 --> 0:17:18.520 I have lived in Georgia for an overwhelming majority of 0:17:18.600 --> 0:17:23.600 my years. I spent a little time in the Western 0:17:23.640 --> 0:17:32.320 States between undergrad and graduate school, and I started Georgia 0:17:32.440 --> 0:17:37.359 Tech just down the street from here graduate school in 0:17:37.440 --> 0:17:42.120 two thousand and four, and in twenty twelve, I graduated 0:17:42.160 --> 0:17:47.479 from Georgia Tech with a PhD in bioinformatics. Bioinformatics is 0:17:47.520 --> 0:17:55.280 basically computer science applied to biology and DNA sequencing. Tell 0:17:55.280 --> 0:18:00.159 her when you transition started your transition. I'll get around that. 0:18:03.480 --> 0:18:06.479 At present, I work at the Centers for Disease Control 0:18:06.520 --> 0:18:11.160 and Prevention doing bioinformatics. It can get a little boring 0:18:11.800 --> 0:18:14.960 for me because I'm a real people person. I'm not 0:18:15.160 --> 0:18:19.399 your stereotypical introverted scientist. 0:18:18.920 --> 0:18:22.600 Type computer person. Yeah. I was reading about you and 0:18:22.680 --> 0:18:24.879 I saw that on your blog I think you had 0:18:24.880 --> 0:18:27.800 from like years ago, you said that the two books 0:18:27.840 --> 0:18:31.119 that you live your life by are the Bible and Nature. 0:18:31.320 --> 0:18:32.720 Do you care to talk a little bit about that? 0:18:33.080 --> 0:18:37.760 Yes, Well, I have really been into nature in the 0:18:37.880 --> 0:18:43.399 outdoors since I was very young. Everything dealing with all 0:18:43.440 --> 0:18:47.639 the dysphoria I had growing up, Being out in nature 0:18:47.720 --> 0:18:51.840 had a healing effect on me, so I tried to 0:18:51.880 --> 0:18:54.640 spend as much time as much of my free time 0:18:54.760 --> 0:19:01.240 camping out and hiking as possible, especially in my late 0:19:01.320 --> 0:19:05.920 teens early twenties. One time, when I was nineteen years old, 0:19:05.960 --> 0:19:09.280 I went on a ninety five mile hike to five 0:19:09.400 --> 0:19:16.320 days between undergrad where I went to University of North 0:19:16.359 --> 0:19:19.960 Georgia for undergrad got a degree in both biology and mathematics. 0:19:20.480 --> 0:19:27.040 After that, I worked in Arizona, Texas, Montana, and Alaska 0:19:27.280 --> 0:19:33.160 in wildlife management type work, and then I decided that 0:19:33.280 --> 0:19:35.800 I'm more of a people person than an animal person. 0:19:36.200 --> 0:19:39.320 So I came back to Georgia to do grad school. 0:19:40.000 --> 0:19:48.240 But as for the Bible, it has unfortunately been a 0:19:48.400 --> 0:19:54.400 fraud relationship between the LGBT community and the Christian Bible. 0:19:55.040 --> 0:19:58.880 I'm going to come out and say that the Bible 0:19:59.280 --> 0:20:04.280 is used to beat up on us routinely. However, the 0:20:04.320 --> 0:20:07.240 people who use the Bible and misuse the Bible to 0:20:07.280 --> 0:20:09.760 beat up on us don't actually know what it says 0:20:11.480 --> 0:20:16.320 the Bible. I have read all of it through and 0:20:16.440 --> 0:20:23.400 through multiple versions. There's the old King James version, which 0:20:23.480 --> 0:20:25.840 the people who hate on us like to use, but 0:20:25.920 --> 0:20:30.959 there's also the new Revised Standard Version, the New International Version, 0:20:31.359 --> 0:20:38.360 and my favorite version, the Young's Literal Translation, which are 0:20:38.720 --> 0:20:44.760 much more accurate in light of the ancient scrolls on 0:20:44.840 --> 0:20:51.480 which the Bible is based. The ancient texts of the 0:20:51.480 --> 0:20:57.320 Bible never at any point mentioned. The concept of eternal 0:20:57.440 --> 0:21:02.600 damnation to hell fire was a concept that was made 0:21:02.680 --> 0:21:05.639 up out of thin air by the Catholic Church and 0:21:05.880 --> 0:21:13.640 picked up and expanded upon by fundamentalist Protestant churches. They 0:21:13.760 --> 0:21:20.520 are perpetuating a false doctrine that God or whoever the 0:21:20.640 --> 0:21:26.440 higher power ruler of the universe is condemns certain groups 0:21:26.480 --> 0:21:32.960 of people to everlasting rejection in a place called hell. 0:21:33.960 --> 0:21:39.440 That is not in the Bible. The Scripture is very liberatory, 0:21:39.640 --> 0:21:44.000 very emancipatory, tells the good news, the good tidings of 0:21:44.080 --> 0:21:51.679 great joy to all people. And how Christ, whom I 0:21:51.720 --> 0:21:55.320 believe to be the Word made flesh, the Bible and 0:21:55.600 --> 0:22:00.879 Jesus I think of, is practically interchangeable. They came to 0:22:00.920 --> 0:22:05.399 seek and save. They came to save the world, and 0:22:05.440 --> 0:22:08.480 not condemn the world, the whole world, not just a 0:22:08.560 --> 0:22:15.119 few chosen privileged people out of the world. So to 0:22:15.200 --> 0:22:20.480 make it simple, I want to say to all LGBT 0:22:20.560 --> 0:22:25.920 people out there, all my sisters, brothers, comrades, everyone in 0:22:25.960 --> 0:22:30.080 my community, that whoever it is your higher power, is God, 0:22:30.200 --> 0:22:38.880 Goddess Universe. You are tenderly and amazingly loved. You are 0:22:38.920 --> 0:22:42.440 not going to hell. No matter what the haters say. 0:22:42.480 --> 0:22:46.119 The haters are wrong. They are as wrong as both 0:22:46.160 --> 0:22:52.840 the Scripture and nature are true. You are loved by God, 0:22:53.800 --> 0:22:58.640 and if there is a life after death, we will 0:22:58.680 --> 0:23:04.480 all be reconciled together in the divine living in joy forever. 0:23:05.520 --> 0:23:08.080 It was beautiful that tiary. 0:23:10.000 --> 0:23:11.320 She is carried away something. 0:23:12.080 --> 0:23:13.520 No, that was great. That was great. 0:23:13.760 --> 0:23:16.240 Well, there are a few things that are worth getting 0:23:16.240 --> 0:23:19.679 carried away on. And I also wanted to bring a 0:23:19.720 --> 0:23:26.119 little bit of good tidings during this time of fear. 0:23:26.480 --> 0:23:28.720 I think we need it. Darlene, do you want to 0:23:28.800 --> 0:23:32.000 talk a little bit about your transition story or Oh? 0:23:32.119 --> 0:23:35.359 Yes, As I said, I went to grad school at 0:23:35.400 --> 0:23:39.679 Georgia Tech between two thousand and four and I graduated 0:23:39.720 --> 0:23:43.280 in twenty twelve. I transitioned in two thousand and nine. 0:23:44.000 --> 0:23:46.399 That was in the middle of grad school. That was 0:23:46.440 --> 0:23:50.240 around the time I was taking my PhD qualifier exams, 0:23:51.000 --> 0:23:56.360 and my professors were none too happy with my decision 0:23:56.480 --> 0:24:00.720 to change my appearance, change my name. But I had 0:24:00.760 --> 0:24:05.360 the deans and the college administration on my side. I 0:24:05.400 --> 0:24:11.960 am fairly skilled at working through bureaucracies. 0:24:11.400 --> 0:24:13.720 Which is kind of half the battle as a transperson 0:24:14.760 --> 0:24:19.200 is working through those bureaucracies and getting what we need. 0:24:19.440 --> 0:24:27.199 We must be master diplomats, master negotiators, because that is 0:24:27.560 --> 0:24:32.679 probably our superpower. We can always put on a charm offensive. 0:24:33.560 --> 0:24:38.560 And so two thousand and nine I transitioned or started transitioning. 0:24:38.720 --> 0:24:42.320 It was the middle of grad school. It was rough, however, 0:24:42.760 --> 0:24:45.680 I had the advantage of being a grad student. They 0:24:45.680 --> 0:24:51.120 can't fire a graduate student. Soon afterwards, soon after starting transition, 0:24:51.240 --> 0:24:58.600 I met Monica and it was my life has been 0:24:59.280 --> 0:25:04.840 so much and more stable and happier since. 0:25:05.440 --> 0:25:07.919 So you two have been together now for how many years? 0:25:08.080 --> 0:25:11.720 Two thousand and nine, fourteen, fourteen? 0:25:12.000 --> 0:25:12.240 Wow? 0:25:12.320 --> 0:25:14.480 And are you married or yes? Okay? When did you 0:25:14.520 --> 0:25:15.200 guys get married? 0:25:15.880 --> 0:25:16.960 Twenty sixteen? 0:25:17.200 --> 0:25:17.800 Wow? 0:25:18.080 --> 0:25:22.000 It was already legal, but a certain orange haired fellow 0:25:22.240 --> 0:25:24.600 won the election to the White House. We were afraid 0:25:24.640 --> 0:25:27.040 that gay marriage would be taken away, so we figured 0:25:27.080 --> 0:25:29.320 we'd run and get married in the courthouse as soon 0:25:29.359 --> 0:25:34.479 as we could. It's sad and scary, but it is 0:25:34.560 --> 0:25:38.080 another one of those things that points to the strength 0:25:38.400 --> 0:25:43.600 and adaptability of our community. We are more than just 0:25:44.480 --> 0:25:51.920 bodies and minds and ideas or ideology. We are a 0:25:52.040 --> 0:25:57.480 natural phenomenon, a force of nature, if you will. Governments 0:25:57.920 --> 0:26:00.760 cannot stamp out a force of nature. 0:26:04.800 --> 0:26:08.280 Thank you, Darlene for those powerful words. We're going to 0:26:08.320 --> 0:26:10.840 take the last break here and we'll be right back. 0:26:29.880 --> 0:26:34.359 And when back, beauties, you make music for transliteration, Is 0:26:34.400 --> 0:26:34.800 that right? 0:26:35.280 --> 0:26:35.520 Yes? 0:26:35.640 --> 0:26:35.880