WEBVTT - Efforts to Manufacture a COVID-19 Vaccine 0:00:00.720 --> 0:00:03.720 This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carol Masser and I'm 0:00:03.800 --> 0:00:06.320 Jason Kelly. We're right here every day bringing you the 0:00:06.400 --> 0:00:11.160 latest news from the world's of business and finance, plus technology, politics, economics, 0:00:11.240 --> 0:00:14.280 all harnessing the power of Business Week reporters and editors, 0:00:14.440 --> 0:00:16.439 and of course Carol that's part of a team of 0:00:16.520 --> 0:00:20.439 twenty seven hundred journalists and analysts more than a hundred 0:00:20.480 --> 0:00:23.280 and twenty countries and Jason. You can download Bloomberg Business 0:00:23.280 --> 0:00:26.239 Week on iTunes, SoundCloud, ol Bloomberg dot com. You can 0:00:26.280 --> 0:00:28.640 also listen to our radio show at two pm Eastern 0:00:28.680 --> 0:00:31.560 on Bloomberg Radio every weekday, or watch us on YouTube 0:00:31.600 --> 0:00:35.960 by searching Bloomberg Global News. We want to get to 0:00:36.040 --> 0:00:39.160 our virus update, which we do every day, and we've 0:00:39.159 --> 0:00:41.360 got a great guest to talk about what's going on 0:00:41.760 --> 0:00:44.760 Tonics Pharmaceuticals. It's among several drug companies working on a 0:00:44.760 --> 0:00:47.000 COVID nineteen vaccine, So let's get into it with Dr 0:00:47.120 --> 0:00:50.519 Seth leader In his chairman, President CU and founder of 0:00:50.560 --> 0:00:53.920 the New York based specialty pharmaceutical company Tonics. He joins 0:00:54.000 --> 0:00:57.880 us on the phone in Massachusetts. Dr Letterman Leaderman, excuse me, 0:00:57.960 --> 0:01:00.720 it's nice to have you here with us. Um I 0:01:00.760 --> 0:01:02.720 want to get into and we want to get into 0:01:02.760 --> 0:01:04.920 what you guys are doing. But I've got to ask 0:01:04.959 --> 0:01:08.680 you about the latest news involving the virus. And we've 0:01:08.720 --> 0:01:12.000 all been talking about the World Health Organization coming out 0:01:12.720 --> 0:01:18.840 and talking about a symptomatic transmission of the virus and saying, uh, 0:01:18.920 --> 0:01:21.959 it's very rare. And I know a top w h 0:01:22.080 --> 0:01:23.959 official has now come come back out and kind of 0:01:24.000 --> 0:01:27.720 downplayed her comment. So I don't know, how do you 0:01:27.760 --> 0:01:30.520 make sense of this? Well, first of all, thank you 0:01:30.640 --> 0:01:32.640 very much for having me on the show, and thank 0:01:32.680 --> 0:01:36.760 you for covering the COVID nineteen story so effectively. It's 0:01:36.800 --> 0:01:40.960 important that you know knowledge is power and everyone is 0:01:41.000 --> 0:01:44.399 in this together. Thanks for asking me about the w 0:01:44.560 --> 0:01:49.440 h O recommendations. I would say generally that people should 0:01:49.440 --> 0:01:52.560 air on the side of caution. It's it's hard to know, 0:01:53.480 --> 0:01:57.919 um what's safe and what's not safe, but people making 0:01:57.960 --> 0:02:03.840 individual decisions should be cautious. I think that I find 0:02:03.880 --> 0:02:08.560 some of the information compelling. Being outside is better than 0:02:08.680 --> 0:02:12.600 inside with people. I think that uh, staying six ft apart, 0:02:12.680 --> 0:02:16.480 wearing a mask and hands are all very important. So 0:02:17.000 --> 0:02:23.600 this new thought about asymptomatic transmission. It is something that 0:02:23.639 --> 0:02:27.520 people can put into an equation, but I wouldn't use 0:02:27.600 --> 0:02:32.280 that to engage in any behaviors that don't follow the 0:02:32.280 --> 0:02:38.760 basic tenants. So, as we think about a vaccine, doctor, 0:02:38.880 --> 0:02:42.200 I mean, it is the thing everyone's looking forward to, 0:02:42.320 --> 0:02:45.440 and in so many ways, you are, as Carol said, right, 0:02:45.480 --> 0:02:47.920 and the think of us think of this help us 0:02:47.960 --> 0:02:53.399 understand what's realistic, what you are seeing and how this development, 0:02:53.680 --> 0:02:56.800 which feels different to those of us who don't normally 0:02:56.840 --> 0:03:00.839 pay so much attention to how vaccines are created, how 0:03:00.840 --> 0:03:05.040 it is or isn't different from what you normally seek. Well, 0:03:05.120 --> 0:03:08.720 first of all, I think that there's a remarkable effort 0:03:08.840 --> 0:03:12.680 going on all over the world, many companies, and it's 0:03:13.240 --> 0:03:19.799 really exciting to see how governments, nonprofits, companies have come 0:03:19.840 --> 0:03:22.680 together with the common goal of doing something about this. 0:03:23.400 --> 0:03:27.400 I agree with the general belief that we really can't 0:03:27.440 --> 0:03:30.800 get back to work and back to school, and in 0:03:30.840 --> 0:03:33.960 the same way that we now look back on it's 0:03:34.000 --> 0:03:38.400 called normal until there's a vaccine. So a vaccine is 0:03:38.520 --> 0:03:43.040 very important and one of the exciting aspects of this 0:03:43.320 --> 0:03:47.320 that so many different technologies are being tested. I think 0:03:47.360 --> 0:03:50.960 it's realistic that there will be a vaccine either late 0:03:51.040 --> 0:03:54.240 this year or early next year, but I'm not sure 0:03:54.320 --> 0:03:57.080 that that would be the vaccine that will ultimately win 0:03:57.520 --> 0:04:02.680 market acceptance and the confident of doctors and patients. So 0:04:03.200 --> 0:04:05.760 there's an element of the tortoise in the hair here 0:04:05.760 --> 0:04:08.920 where there are some companies that are very fast out 0:04:08.920 --> 0:04:11.680 of the gate. They have exciting technology, but there are 0:04:11.680 --> 0:04:14.880 other companies like ours that are going more slowly and 0:04:14.960 --> 0:04:19.320 have different technologies. And I think that COVID nine team 0:04:19.320 --> 0:04:21.800 will be with us for a long time, so it 0:04:21.839 --> 0:04:25.360 will be possible to figure out which vaccines are best 0:04:25.400 --> 0:04:28.280 in the public health sense. Explain the science. As you say, 0:04:28.279 --> 0:04:31.800 there's different technologies for the virus, so explain that, because 0:04:31.839 --> 0:04:35.320 you're right there is this huge race going on the 0:04:35.360 --> 0:04:38.560 government is involved to what are the different technologies we're 0:04:38.600 --> 0:04:42.479 talking about, you know, and how that affects the efficacy 0:04:42.839 --> 0:04:49.080 of an ultimate vaccine. I think the simplest way to 0:04:49.200 --> 0:04:53.920 do to divide the different vaccine technologies that are out 0:04:53.920 --> 0:04:58.080 there um is to think about the two main components 0:04:58.080 --> 0:05:02.599 of the immune system, and that is either antibodies or 0:05:02.760 --> 0:05:08.240 T cells. And I think that vaccines are designed to 0:05:08.360 --> 0:05:13.400 stimulate either antibody responses or T cell responses. Antibody responses 0:05:13.760 --> 0:05:19.160 are shorter lived and tend to stop an infection from happening, 0:05:19.640 --> 0:05:24.240 and T cell responses are longer lived but tend to 0:05:26.200 --> 0:05:30.280 eliminate an infection after it's happened and also clear the 0:05:30.320 --> 0:05:34.680 bloodstream and the body of the virus. Now, those are 0:05:34.720 --> 0:05:39.960 the extremes. Just about every vaccine will have elements of both. 0:05:40.320 --> 0:05:42.799 But I think that dividing them up into whether something 0:05:42.880 --> 0:05:45.919 is more antibody or more T cell focused is a 0:05:46.000 --> 0:05:49.520 good way to do to divide the many technologies being 0:05:49.520 --> 0:05:51.479 thrown at this. Do we need both or do we 0:05:51.520 --> 0:05:53.719 need the T cells, which to me sounds like a 0:05:53.760 --> 0:05:57.039 bigger deal. Just quickly and then we'll come back and 0:05:57.080 --> 0:06:03.080 talk we need both and um, but but there there 0:06:03.120 --> 0:06:07.400 are flavors within both. But for example, it's probably true 0:06:07.480 --> 0:06:10.320 that an antibody test is a good sign that someone 0:06:10.360 --> 0:06:14.359 has recovered from the illness and as some level of immunity, 0:06:14.480 --> 0:06:19.120 But antibodies without key cells is probably not a solution. 0:06:19.640 --> 0:06:22.680 Let's get back to our guest. UM continue to talk 0:06:22.720 --> 0:06:25.480 about what's going on with the virus, and of course, 0:06:26.000 --> 0:06:28.279 the search for a vaccine. Dr Seth Letterman is still 0:06:28.279 --> 0:06:32.400 with US chairman, president, CEO, and founder of Tonics Pharmaceuticals. 0:06:32.440 --> 0:06:36.560 He's on the phone in Massachusetts. So, you know, when 0:06:36.560 --> 0:06:40.440 you kind of take into account UM, Dr Letterman, the 0:06:40.640 --> 0:06:44.840 reopenings that we're seeing, but we're continuing to be vigilant, 0:06:45.040 --> 0:06:47.200 wearing masks and so and so forth, do you feel 0:06:47.200 --> 0:06:49.279 like things are progressing like they should be and in 0:06:49.320 --> 0:06:55.960 a safe way. I'm optimistic, but cautious. The most of 0:06:56.000 --> 0:06:59.640 the United States still has very low levels of in 0:06:59.720 --> 0:07:03.200 fact and exposure. So while some areas like New York 0:07:03.200 --> 0:07:08.880 City um is may be prepared to reopen, it seems 0:07:08.920 --> 0:07:12.960 like the rest of the country has to really pay 0:07:13.000 --> 0:07:18.960 attention to the guidelines of interacting and behaving with appropriate 0:07:19.160 --> 0:07:25.960 caution and so as you look at that UH, and 0:07:26.000 --> 0:07:28.520 also you look at everything that's been going on with 0:07:29.000 --> 0:07:34.680 folks going into UM public spaces, and you think ahead 0:07:34.720 --> 0:07:38.440 to kind of the broader sentiment out there of where 0:07:38.440 --> 0:07:40.320 we are around the virus. We talked about the w 0:07:40.520 --> 0:07:44.600 h OH, we talked about UM, you know, the reopening element. 0:07:45.040 --> 0:07:48.960 How does that all factor into what we need, how 0:07:48.960 --> 0:07:51.160 we need to be acting sort of in the meantime, 0:07:51.240 --> 0:07:54.160 and you said earlier in the conversation, you know that 0:07:54.160 --> 0:07:55.720 that we're not really going to get back to anything 0:07:55.760 --> 0:07:59.760 resembling normal till till there is a vaccine. But we 0:08:00.000 --> 0:08:02.280 don't live in this sort of binary world anymore, and 0:08:02.320 --> 0:08:06.120 so so I do wonder, Um, you know, when you 0:08:06.160 --> 0:08:08.960 think about things like I'm just gonna be very procial here, 0:08:09.040 --> 0:08:12.200 like sports in the fall, you know, whether it's youth 0:08:12.320 --> 0:08:15.200 or professional or college, when you think about people going 0:08:15.200 --> 0:08:18.000 to conferences, all those different things, is that all just 0:08:18.120 --> 0:08:23.520 delayed until there's a vaccine. Well, I think that if 0:08:24.400 --> 0:08:27.760 regardless of this scenario is people are following the guidelines, 0:08:27.760 --> 0:08:31.440 who's staying six ft apart, wear a mask, washing hands regularly, 0:08:31.600 --> 0:08:35.280 I think a lot of activities can resume there. It's 0:08:35.360 --> 0:08:38.120 it's clear that this is a virus and it's transmitted 0:08:38.120 --> 0:08:40.880 in a certain way by the respiratory route, and if 0:08:40.920 --> 0:08:44.760 people are very cautious, they can protect themselves and others. 0:08:45.320 --> 0:08:47.080 So with that in mind, I think a lot of 0:08:47.120 --> 0:08:51.920 activities can and should reopen. But it's there's a fear 0:08:52.320 --> 0:08:58.080 that people will become complacent or get sloppy, and that's 0:08:58.120 --> 0:09:01.000 something to really guard against. Yeah, and certainly when you 0:09:01.040 --> 0:09:05.079 see pictures as things reopen, you do see people getting sloppy. 0:09:05.120 --> 0:09:07.400 I was reading a story on the Bloomberg about I 0:09:07.400 --> 0:09:09.200 think one of our reporters who took a flight, and 0:09:09.600 --> 0:09:12.600 you know, yep, there were certainly social distancing and things 0:09:12.679 --> 0:09:14.040 get in place. But then when there was all of 0:09:14.040 --> 0:09:15.480 a sudden a flight change, like all of a sudden, 0:09:15.480 --> 0:09:17.720 everybody's crammed next to each other, and it's very easy 0:09:17.760 --> 0:09:19.960 to go back to the ways. I do want to 0:09:20.160 --> 0:09:24.040 Dr Letterman, just you guys are working on a vaccine, 0:09:24.640 --> 0:09:28.200 So tell us where you are, how, what's the timeline 0:09:28.200 --> 0:09:31.040 you're working on, and and what kind of a vaccine 0:09:31.280 --> 0:09:36.040 it could ultimately be, Oh, thank you. Our vaccine is 0:09:36.280 --> 0:09:41.920 a live replicating vaccine, and that's particular kind of vaccine 0:09:41.960 --> 0:09:46.079 that stimulates T cell immunity. Ours is based on the 0:09:46.120 --> 0:09:52.280 oldest vaccine. It's the same vaccine that eradicated smallpox from 0:09:52.280 --> 0:09:56.240 the world. And the core that we're working on is 0:09:56.280 --> 0:09:59.800 about two hundred and twenty years old, and we're using 0:09:59.840 --> 0:10:02.840 that as a vector to carry a piece of the 0:10:03.080 --> 0:10:07.719 of the COVID nineteen passage in in it, and we 0:10:07.840 --> 0:10:11.320 are we are expecting to be in animal studies in 0:10:11.400 --> 0:10:16.760 the second half of this year, and that will determine 0:10:16.800 --> 0:10:19.840 how quickly we can get into humans. But we're hoping 0:10:19.880 --> 0:10:26.360 it can be in well, here's hoping. I mean, we're 0:10:26.360 --> 0:10:28.800 all looking forward to that in many ways, and as 0:10:28.880 --> 0:10:32.360 you have very well set out, Dr Letterman, it is 0:10:32.440 --> 0:10:35.319 the it is the path back towards something that looks 0:10:35.640 --> 0:10:38.400 much more normal. Dr Steth Letterman is the CEO of 0:10:38.400 --> 0:10:42.600 Tonics Pharmaceuticals, joinings on the phone from Massachusetts. They are, 0:10:42.640 --> 0:10:45.960 of course a clinical stage biopharma company and they're working 0:10:46.040 --> 0:10:48.280 on a vaccine, and I liked what he was able 0:10:48.280 --> 0:10:50.320 to explain to us in terms of the types of 0:10:50.400 --> 0:10:52.800 vaccines that are out there, and there is the most 0:10:52.800 --> 0:10:55.280 concerted effort I think we've certainly seen in our lifetimes 0:10:55.280 --> 0:10:58.680 to eradicate anything. Carol's fair. I hope we stay in 0:10:58.679 --> 0:11:01.000 touch because I thought the science of explaining the different 0:11:01.040 --> 0:11:02.960 because we know that there's a lot of different vaccines 0:11:03.000 --> 0:11:05.120 being worked on UM and I know they just joined 0:11:05.120 --> 0:11:08.040 it had signed a deal to support the manufacturing of 0:11:08.080 --> 0:11:11.160 their vaccine candidate UM. But I'd love to touch base 0:11:11.320 --> 0:11:14.160 as this progressis because certainly UM, I really do feel 0:11:14.160 --> 0:11:16.280 like we get a lot of the science holes filled 0:11:16.280 --> 0:11:18.760 in on what we need to know as um, you know, 0:11:18.880 --> 0:11:21.920 individuals who are trying to get back out into our society. 0:11:22.000 --> 0:11:25.600 This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Jason 0:11:25.679 --> 0:11:29.160 Kelly on Bloomberg Radio. I am really excited to talk 0:11:29.200 --> 0:11:33.840 about this next story and with this reporter, in part because, 0:11:33.960 --> 0:11:36.480 as you know, Carol, you're talking to bureau chief spirit 0:11:36.559 --> 0:11:40.360 chiefs are the best. You're just saying, do the chief thing. Uh. 0:11:40.440 --> 0:11:44.160 Natalie Opaco Pearson is our Vancouver bireau chief for Bloomberg. 0:11:44.240 --> 0:11:46.920 She joins us on the phone from that gorgeous city 0:11:46.960 --> 0:11:52.120 and her story. I'm so excited about Shopify because I mean, 0:11:52.160 --> 0:11:57.440 this is a juggernaut in Canada and I really want 0:11:57.440 --> 0:12:01.680 to understand how it's gotten there and what maybe next. Natalie, 0:12:01.880 --> 0:12:03.720 Really nice to have you with us. How are you doing? 0:12:04.640 --> 0:12:07.840 Thanks for having me so tell us about shop if 0:12:07.840 --> 0:12:10.240 I remind us what this is and how it has 0:12:10.320 --> 0:12:15.439 become so important so fast. It's this really odd Canadian 0:12:15.520 --> 0:12:18.920 story that's very big company that a lot of people 0:12:18.920 --> 0:12:23.520 have never heard of. Um, it's remained mostly invisible to consumers, 0:12:23.640 --> 0:12:26.360 but it's it's become the sort of platform of choice 0:12:26.440 --> 0:12:29.880 for any business that wants to get online quickly and cheaply. 0:12:30.360 --> 0:12:32.599 And obviously since the beginning of the year with a 0:12:32.679 --> 0:12:35.680 pandemic that pandemic, there's been a lot of businesses that 0:12:35.760 --> 0:12:38.440 suddenly want to get online very quickly and very cheaply. 0:12:38.840 --> 0:12:40.800 So essentially what it is is, you know, starting with 0:12:40.840 --> 0:12:43.400 a monthly fee of about twenty nine dollars, you can 0:12:43.440 --> 0:12:45.920 set up a virtual shop and everything that's needed to 0:12:46.040 --> 0:12:49.480 run it, so you know, manage things like payments, inventory levels, 0:12:49.559 --> 0:12:54.280 shipping um. And we've seen you know, mega brands from 0:12:54.280 --> 0:12:58.160 like Heins the catchup maker, to Heineken the beer maker 0:12:59.040 --> 0:13:03.120 use there you have their online presence on Shopify down 0:13:03.160 --> 0:13:07.040 to like a small florist in Dublin UM. And one 0:13:07.040 --> 0:13:10.160 thing that's Keita note about Shopify is it's essentially for 0:13:10.280 --> 0:13:12.920 those businesses that don't want to be selling on Amazon. 0:13:13.000 --> 0:13:15.319 So if you want to go online and keep control 0:13:15.440 --> 0:13:19.120 of your online shop in your e commerce presence, you're 0:13:19.160 --> 0:13:22.000 gonna go to something like Shopify and set up you 0:13:22.160 --> 0:13:25.440 set it up on that platform. And so today in 0:13:25.520 --> 0:13:27.800 the US, you know, one of the world's biggest e 0:13:27.840 --> 0:13:33.000 commerce markets. If you're buying anything online, that's not on Amazon. 0:13:33.160 --> 0:13:36.440 It's most likely done on a website that's been powered 0:13:36.440 --> 0:13:39.439 by Shopify, and they've been powered by the lockdown and 0:13:39.480 --> 0:13:42.040 the virus. Right, is a lot of people quickly pivoted 0:13:42.080 --> 0:13:46.840 to digital, that's right. So since the start of the pandemic. 0:13:47.360 --> 0:13:50.360 I think it was their chief technical officer who was 0:13:50.400 --> 0:13:52.920 saying something like they were seeing Black Friday levels of 0:13:52.960 --> 0:13:56.880 traffic every day, all these businesses wanting to suddenly set 0:13:56.960 --> 0:14:00.360 up an e commerce shop and you know, wanting sample. 0:14:00.440 --> 0:14:04.080 Actually was Hinz this on fifty year old food brand 0:14:04.440 --> 0:14:08.079 that had resisted selling online for a very long time. 0:14:08.200 --> 0:14:12.000 But in the UK, as British consumers were suddenly struggling 0:14:12.320 --> 0:14:16.080 to find pantry staples, they did this about face. It 0:14:16.160 --> 0:14:19.720 was this very speedy e commerce pivot. They they within 0:14:19.800 --> 0:14:24.280 a week they had a virtual shop online selling pasta, 0:14:24.320 --> 0:14:27.600 hoops and tomato soup and so on, and so that 0:14:27.640 --> 0:14:31.280 has been you know, replicated in many geographies. And I 0:14:31.320 --> 0:14:33.840 think you know it was they saw like a sixty 0:14:34.640 --> 0:14:37.840 present surge and store creations over a six week period. 0:14:38.600 --> 0:14:41.360 I mean, it's unbelievable to the juggonnaut has become on 0:14:41.400 --> 0:14:44.240 the public markets. You know, vying with Royal Bank of 0:14:44.360 --> 0:14:47.560 Canada as the biggest publicly traded company. I mean, it's 0:14:47.560 --> 0:14:50.800 bigger than Uber, right, I mean, which which I feel 0:14:50.880 --> 0:14:52.720 is like the thing that like, that's the thing that 0:14:52.720 --> 0:14:55.560 you just have to say to anybody in twenty twenty 0:14:55.640 --> 0:14:59.120 and that gets their attention. It's crazy and you know, 0:14:59.160 --> 0:15:05.040 speaking for Canadian and it's crazy for Canadians. It's an 0:15:05.080 --> 0:15:09.560 eight nine billion dollar market cap company. Yeah, it's a 0:15:09.680 --> 0:15:13.000 dressing room off. I mean, you know, it's it helps 0:15:13.000 --> 0:15:15.760 flop sixty one billion dollars worth of goods in two 0:15:15.800 --> 0:15:19.600 thousand and nineteen. It's you know, it's market value exceeds 0:15:19.600 --> 0:15:23.000 that of General Electric, and yet so few people outside 0:15:23.000 --> 0:15:26.920 of Canada have ever even heard of it. So go ahead, 0:15:26.960 --> 0:15:28.440 Well I was thinking, and so all right, so we 0:15:28.440 --> 0:15:30.520 look at Amazon. We all know Amazon, right, we use 0:15:30.600 --> 0:15:33.720 it constantly. You know, does Amazon have to be worried? 0:15:33.800 --> 0:15:36.680 I mean, what's what's the difference the biggest difference between 0:15:36.680 --> 0:15:39.720 these two? Yeah, and that's a great question because I 0:15:39.720 --> 0:15:41.720 think you know, a lot of people who are aware 0:15:41.720 --> 0:15:45.000 of Shopify tend to compare it with Amazon. One one 0:15:45.080 --> 0:15:47.960 key difference is that if you're a merchant and you 0:15:48.000 --> 0:15:51.320 want to sell your stuff online, Amazon might be an 0:15:51.320 --> 0:15:53.480 easy choice, but you kind of lose control once you 0:15:53.480 --> 0:15:55.680 put your wares up on Amazon. You're sort of relying 0:15:55.800 --> 0:15:59.440 on Amazon to get the web traffic to your virtual store, 0:15:59.760 --> 0:16:03.160 and Amazon sort of takes over the fulfillment of those orders. 0:16:03.160 --> 0:16:06.520 And what we actually saw during the pandemic was that 0:16:06.880 --> 0:16:12.560 as as Amazon became overwhelmed, UH, it was prioritizing essential goods. 0:16:12.560 --> 0:16:16.040 So those merchants who were selling non essential goods were 0:16:16.040 --> 0:16:18.800 certainly finding that they were getting orders, but they couldn't 0:16:18.920 --> 0:16:23.680 fulfill them, and so that actually helped direct some traffic 0:16:23.720 --> 0:16:26.800 over to Shopify, where you are in control of your 0:16:26.840 --> 0:16:30.800 online UH shop. And the other thing to note is 0:16:30.840 --> 0:16:33.480 that you know, Shopify is is much more than just 0:16:33.520 --> 0:16:36.640 selling a few things online, like It's evolved and so 0:16:36.840 --> 0:16:39.960 essentially now it's sort of a one stop shop for 0:16:40.000 --> 0:16:43.480 a business. So during the pandemic, it helped merchants set 0:16:43.560 --> 0:16:47.560 up curbside pickup, helped them find ways to set up 0:16:47.600 --> 0:16:51.520 local delivery. It's also expanding social media, so it set 0:16:51.600 --> 0:16:54.240 up these partnerships with Facebook and Pinterest because one of 0:16:54.280 --> 0:16:59.040 the biggest problems for businesses is finding new customers. Especially 0:16:59.040 --> 0:17:01.800 if these people aren't walking by your store every day, 0:17:01.800 --> 0:17:03.240 you know, how do you find out? How do you 0:17:03.280 --> 0:17:06.280 find new customers? So then it's trying to expand. Social 0:17:06.280 --> 0:17:09.840 media is just another way to do online shopping. And 0:17:10.040 --> 0:17:12.480 in the past what we've seen as businesses have to 0:17:12.520 --> 0:17:16.440 kind of cobble together different applications to manage these different channels. 0:17:16.680 --> 0:17:19.439 Will Shopify really simplifies that for you. It's saying you 0:17:19.480 --> 0:17:21.600 come to us, we will help you set that all 0:17:21.760 --> 0:17:24.199 up and you can see the entirety of your business 0:17:24.200 --> 0:17:26.320 from this one plot. And it's still and it's still 0:17:26.359 --> 0:17:31.720 your site, right or is it on Shopify? It's it's Shopify. 0:17:31.840 --> 0:17:34.600 It's sort of the provides the plumbing. But if you 0:17:34.640 --> 0:17:36.800 are a consumer you go to that site, you will 0:17:36.800 --> 0:17:39.959 never see Shopify. If you go into the code, it 0:17:40.040 --> 0:17:43.560 looks like, you know, it looks like Victoria Beckham's clothing line, 0:17:43.600 --> 0:17:47.280 or it looks like Hinds online store. So, Natalie, before 0:17:47.320 --> 0:17:50.240 we let you go, gotta ask um. Obviously all of 0:17:50.280 --> 0:17:54.360 our behavior has changed on the consumer side, and behavior 0:17:54.440 --> 0:17:59.000 is clearly changed on the merchant side. How much does 0:17:59.080 --> 0:18:03.120 Shopify a need for some version of this to continue? 0:18:03.160 --> 0:18:06.760 For this behavior change to continue in order to be 0:18:06.840 --> 0:18:09.520 as successful as it has been. Yeah, and that's a 0:18:09.560 --> 0:18:11.800 great question. I think that's where the skeptics have come 0:18:11.840 --> 0:18:14.040 in because when you look at some of these multiples, 0:18:14.080 --> 0:18:18.160 they're sort of reminiscent of the the Internet boom at 0:18:18.200 --> 0:18:21.920 its frothiest period. You know, it's share prices just totally 0:18:21.960 --> 0:18:25.760 gone stratospheric um and so what the one big question 0:18:25.880 --> 0:18:29.240 is this rush of merchants that came online. Is that 0:18:29.400 --> 0:18:32.720 is that necessarily new demand that's going to sustain or 0:18:32.880 --> 0:18:36.280 is it businesses that might have eventually come online anyway? 0:18:36.359 --> 0:18:39.440 So are they sort of his Shopify borrowed from future 0:18:39.480 --> 0:18:42.080 demand so to speak. The other big question is how 0:18:42.119 --> 0:18:44.840 many of the small merchants that have rushed onto Shopify 0:18:44.920 --> 0:18:47.439 to set up online shops are going to survive because 0:18:47.440 --> 0:18:50.480 we saw after the global financial crisis thousands of them 0:18:50.480 --> 0:18:54.719 memo recovered and consumers spending may yet collapse. So, you know, 0:18:54.760 --> 0:18:57.439 I think one analyst put it, the Shopify gained a 0:18:57.480 --> 0:19:00.479 lot of mark could share with the pandemic, but it's 0:19:00.520 --> 0:19:04.000 biggest risk may actually be meeting investors expectations, Like it's 0:19:04.000 --> 0:19:06.600 a huge amount of pressure to have that enormous share 0:19:06.680 --> 0:19:10.080 price surge. Right, absolutely, Well, it's a great story I 0:19:10.200 --> 0:19:12.239 must read. It's on the Bloomberg and on Bloomberg dot 0:19:12.280 --> 0:19:15.040 com today, it'll be in the upcoming edition of Bloomberg 0:19:15.119 --> 0:19:18.840 Business Week. Natalie Obaco Pierce in Vancouver, bureau chief for Bloomberg. 0:19:19.119 --> 0:19:21.800 Jos on the phone from Vancouver. Who are listening to 0:19:21.880 --> 0:19:24.760 Bloomberg Business Week, Well, it's time not to dig into 0:19:24.800 --> 0:19:29.240 the Small Business Survival Guide. It's an effort that our 0:19:29.320 --> 0:19:33.280 colleagues at Bloomberg Business Week have been undertaking. It's very 0:19:33.359 --> 0:19:36.440 useful to understand kind of what small businesses are doing 0:19:36.480 --> 0:19:38.800 throughout all of this leading the charges to meet you. 0:19:38.880 --> 0:19:41.840 Cassani's editor for Bloomberg. She joins us on the phone 0:19:41.880 --> 0:19:45.760 from New Jersey. Along with I sat up March. She 0:19:45.880 --> 0:19:49.200 is the owner of Studio Phenomenon Hair salon on the 0:19:49.240 --> 0:19:52.760 phone as well. So Demitra, remind us what you're trying 0:19:52.760 --> 0:19:56.080 to do here, and you know, it's interesting. This obviously started, 0:19:56.240 --> 0:19:58.800 you know, primarily to look at COVID nineteen in the 0:19:58.840 --> 0:20:02.159 aftermath there, but obviously the world got a lot more 0:20:02.200 --> 0:20:05.280 complicated and a lot more troubling in the past couple 0:20:05.280 --> 0:20:07.520 of weeks. So I wonder how you guys thought about 0:20:07.560 --> 0:20:12.560 that pivot. Sure, hi, Jason, Yeah, we well, of course 0:20:12.640 --> 0:20:15.520 we were looking at small businesses through solely the lens 0:20:15.600 --> 0:20:18.840 of the of the virus. But even you know, I mean, 0:20:18.920 --> 0:20:21.800 the world is much more complicated today, even if we 0:20:21.840 --> 0:20:24.720 solely look at the virus sort of kind of next stages, 0:20:24.760 --> 0:20:28.600 it's complicated because we're all in reopening phase right New 0:20:28.720 --> 0:20:30.640 York City. The big news of the last two days 0:20:30.680 --> 0:20:33.800 has been phase one reopening will eventually move on to 0:20:33.840 --> 0:20:37.600 phase two and phase three, combined with social unrest, combined 0:20:37.680 --> 0:20:40.040 with what is happening in the world, how do you 0:20:40.119 --> 0:20:42.240 keep going? Do you have the money to keep going? 0:20:42.440 --> 0:20:45.240 Are your customers going to come back? How can you 0:20:45.280 --> 0:20:49.280 make your customers feel comfortable? So we um Nick liber 0:20:49.440 --> 0:20:52.800 Mike colleague, who is a freelance contributor, and I have 0:20:52.880 --> 0:20:55.240 been talking to business owners, and he has been talking 0:20:55.280 --> 0:20:59.560 to Asada Marsh as we mentioned about her business in Brooklyn, 0:21:00.359 --> 0:21:03.119 and it's a lot more complicated than many of us 0:21:03.160 --> 0:21:06.600 realized when it comes to something like a hair salon. Well, 0:21:06.640 --> 0:21:09.119 and let's bring in a Sada Marsh. She joins us 0:21:09.240 --> 0:21:11.600 on the phone in Long Island, as Jason mentioned she's 0:21:11.640 --> 0:21:14.640 owner of Studio Phenomenon Hair Salon. So I just thought 0:21:14.680 --> 0:21:16.600 it talked to us about some of the challenges that 0:21:16.640 --> 0:21:21.119 you're facing, and it's really you know, twofold, minimally, you know, 0:21:21.200 --> 0:21:24.200 between the virus and then of course the civil protests, 0:21:24.400 --> 0:21:26.639 and you know you are a black business owner. So 0:21:26.680 --> 0:21:28.439 tell us about some of the challenges that you are 0:21:28.480 --> 0:21:32.840 seeing firsthand. Okay, well, I'm located in the hottest Brooklyn. 0:21:32.880 --> 0:21:35.000 I serve the number of clients per week and have 0:21:35.040 --> 0:21:37.400 a number of individuals in my business space at any 0:21:37.400 --> 0:21:42.800 given time. People are scared political social messaging from respective 0:21:42.880 --> 0:21:45.919 leaders like conflicting. We don't know what to do. Uh. 0:21:46.040 --> 0:21:48.840 They need to have some type of economics stay grounds established, 0:21:49.000 --> 0:21:52.520 and things are confused and hard to access. Like for me, UM, 0:21:52.560 --> 0:21:55.679 I have to restructure my entire space. I have to 0:21:56.359 --> 0:21:59.880 lessen the people who work for me, and UM act 0:22:00.040 --> 0:22:04.360 really distant from UH. As they say sixty, I say, timty. 0:22:04.800 --> 0:22:07.000 People don't realize when you come inside of the celant 0:22:07.119 --> 0:22:09.879 or space, you touch everything from the door knob to 0:22:09.960 --> 0:22:12.440 the chair to the bathroom door too. You know, it's 0:22:12.520 --> 0:22:15.040 very confusing. It's confusing for me as a business own 0:22:15.119 --> 0:22:19.160 confusing as a client a customer, and my demographic reach 0:22:19.240 --> 0:22:22.679 from a seventeen to seventy nine. So I have to 0:22:22.720 --> 0:22:25.760 be very weary of my older clientele because I don't 0:22:25.760 --> 0:22:27.919 want them to get sick because they're right at the 0:22:28.280 --> 0:22:30.919 at the war zone of the virus affecting them. So 0:22:30.960 --> 0:22:34.199 it's very difficult. You know, I'm at wits end on 0:22:34.359 --> 0:22:37.440 what exactly is real or not. I myself went into 0:22:37.520 --> 0:22:42.199 the COVID nineteen test. It came back negative, and some 0:22:42.240 --> 0:22:44.560 people say it's a negative positive resummer to come back 0:22:44.600 --> 0:22:47.560 negative COVID nineteen, but then they're squad their nose and 0:22:47.560 --> 0:22:50.640 then they come back positive. Whole thing is absolutely confusing. 0:22:50.760 --> 0:22:53.159 I don't know. I mean, each client that comes in, 0:22:53.280 --> 0:22:55.720 I have to mask up myself. I have to give 0:22:55.760 --> 0:22:58.679 them a mask. It's just this whole every day, you know, 0:22:58.840 --> 0:23:03.399 socialization with POOL. It's just it feels like literally I 0:23:03.440 --> 0:23:05.680 have to retrain myself. It's like learning how to read 0:23:05.800 --> 0:23:08.600 or do uh first or second grade math. You have 0:23:08.640 --> 0:23:11.800 to retrain everything that you thought was normal um to 0:23:11.920 --> 0:23:15.280 make it the norm. Right. So I decided just shifting 0:23:15.280 --> 0:23:17.439 gears slightly. I mean, so you're in the process of 0:23:17.480 --> 0:23:20.480