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Speaker 1: Hello the Internet, and welcome to season three thirty one,

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Speaker 1: Episode two of dir Daily's Like Guy Say production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: This is a.

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Speaker 1: Podcast where we take a deep down and do America

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Speaker 1: share consciousness. And it is Tuesday, March twenty sixth, twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty four.

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Speaker 3: That's right, March twenty six It's National Nugat Day. We

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Speaker 3: don't understand what nugat is. Technically Epilepsi Awareness Day, National

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Speaker 3: Spinish Day, shoutout Popeye, an American Diabetes Association Alert Day.

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Speaker 3: But nugat, what is it? And how do we continue

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Speaker 3: to live without knowing what it is? I just know

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Speaker 3: it as white chewy stuff in the middle.

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Speaker 1: I thought it was the stuff in the middle of

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Speaker 1: three Musketeer bar and in Milky Way with carmel. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: when I look at the Google image surge of nugat

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Speaker 1: would indicate that it's like a white budge thing. It

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Speaker 1: looks terrible. Look at this nugat right here. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: Like all the nugat that Google image search returns is

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Speaker 1: not what I had in mind.

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Speaker 3: It says made by whipping egg whites together and adding

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Speaker 3: honey or sugar, roasted nuts, and sometimes candy fruit. No

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Speaker 3: thank you on the cant Oh. It dates back to

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Speaker 3: the Roman Empire. See that's why I think about Rome

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Speaker 3: so much, because I love nugat.

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Speaker 1: I feel like they also it's from so long ago

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Speaker 1: that just anything that was sugar was like called nugat.

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Speaker 1: You know, they just like it was from a time

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Speaker 1: of like when the only candy was like necho wafers

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Speaker 1: and nugat. Yeah, what's that. I don't know.

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Speaker 3: I dropped some eggs and some sugar and I just

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Speaker 3: whipped it up furiously, and I don't know my kids

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Speaker 3: then it fell.

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Speaker 1: On the ground and they're like nuts and sticks stuck

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Speaker 1: in it. So we're gonna call that on purpose.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I needed to like the etymology of

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Speaker 3: fucking nugat Nugat.

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Speaker 1: My name is Jack O'Brien aka.

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Speaker 4: Welcome to my golf course, Palmersaurus. That's Jeff Explore the

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Speaker 4: Titanic but before it got wrecked. All these medals I've sold,

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Speaker 4: I'm the smartest god because of cold.

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Speaker 1: That is courtesy of Rezik on the Discord in honor

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Speaker 1: of the Australian billionaire Clive Palmer, who first of all

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Speaker 1: came to our attention most recently because he's rebuilding the

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Speaker 1: Titanic and like doing the trip again, making the making

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Speaker 1: the captain get drunk again and just like kind of

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Speaker 1: sloalow them through those icebergs. But already had turned the

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Speaker 1: best golf course in Australia, like I don't I don't

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Speaker 1: know from golf courses, but like the golf course where

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Speaker 1: the PGA like would hold their big tournaments. He bought

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Speaker 1: that and started putting animatronic dinosaurs all over it. Called

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Speaker 1: it Palmersaurus. It's called it's called you gave it a

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Speaker 1: put a giant plastic t rex on the ninth hole

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Speaker 1: and named it Jeff. So anyways, shout out to that man.

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Speaker 1: I'm thrilled to be joined as always by my co host,

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Speaker 1: mister Miles Gras.

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Speaker 3: That's right, it's Miles Gray driving in a busted Honda

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Speaker 3: Prelude down lankershim because he's a lord of Lankersham. It's

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Speaker 3: the black and the showgun with no gun. Miles, Great,

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Speaker 3: thank you so much for having me back, Jack again.

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Speaker 3: Always appreciate it.

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Speaker 1: Hey man, let's you know you're you're one of the

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Speaker 1: faces on Mount site more. Yeah, thank you. I love

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Speaker 1: one of our favorites.

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Speaker 3: I love getting that email from you on a Monday

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Speaker 3: morning and being like, hey, man, would love to have

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Speaker 3: you back another season.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, I do email. You've been on every episode

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Speaker 1: so far. I do email you every time and invite

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Speaker 1: you back to the next season to keep you in

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Speaker 1: your place, so you know, yeah, I mean at a

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Speaker 1: certain point, I'm like, well, this is kind of contractual.

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Speaker 1: At this point, Hey man, I don't know if you're

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Speaker 1: doing anything. I always open it. Yeah, man, no, every

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Speaker 1: time at the same time. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know. Sure,

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Speaker 1: I'm already here. I'm sending you the zoom. I'm actually

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Speaker 1: into the zoom. Thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks for that man. Anyways, Miles,

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Speaker 1: we are thrilled to be joined in our third seat

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Speaker 1: by a writer, media critic, host of a couple podcasts.

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Speaker 1: You Are Good, a feelings podcast about movies, and the

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Speaker 1: classic the Mount Rushmore Podcast. It's not a podcast about

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Speaker 1: Mount Rushmore. It is like on the Mount Rushmore of

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Speaker 1: great podcasts, exactly You're wrong about Her writing has appeared

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Speaker 1: in The Believer on BuzzFeed. Truly one of the best

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Speaker 1: people in the world at interrogating the myths and narratives

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Speaker 1: we use to define ourselves. In the world around us.

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Speaker 1: Please welcome the brilliant and talented Sarah Marshall.

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Speaker 2: And what a crazy intro. I feel so pumped up.

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Speaker 2: I feel like I want to be one of those

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Speaker 2: kids running onto the stage of Marian. Yeah. I don't

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Speaker 2: care much.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yet, did you ever do an episode about that?

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Speaker 2: He really should? I was just thinking this morning. One

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Speaker 2: of the things I find most fascinating is the question of,

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Speaker 2: like the inner workings of a nineties daytime talk show.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, like, my god, right, because I mean, like, I

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Speaker 3: feel like we got the like the darkest glimpse after

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Speaker 3: the Jenny Jones thing. Yeah, that's when we started to

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Speaker 3: be like, oh no, no, no, was.

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Speaker 2: The what if our actings have consequences?

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Speaker 3: Jenny Jones one was where they outed one of their

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Speaker 3: guests for being in love with this other man, right,

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Speaker 3: and then the guy was murdered.

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Speaker 1: Oh Jesus.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm gonna be iffy on the details, but yeah,

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Speaker 2: they and I don't think they aired the episode, but

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Speaker 2: right they they did facilitate a murder there.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, wow.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And you know you're wrong about as big on

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Speaker 2: the satanic panic and they were such a big part

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Speaker 2: of the wonderful things. Yeah, a real accelerant to the

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Speaker 2: like the wet cardboard and the mushroom growing experience, my

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Speaker 2: colleague metaphor, that's where we are.

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Speaker 1: Which we are? Yeah, I was going to ask for

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Speaker 1: the best micology metaphors. You could call it what. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: We've talked about You're wrong about a lot on this podcast,

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Speaker 1: especially around human trafficking, and uh, it's just I think

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Speaker 1: the foremost debunker of bullshit myths and our show pedals bullshit.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's what we do. We love to know.

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Speaker 1: We also like to bust bullshit myths when we're heads

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Speaker 1: up enough to catch them. But so we wanted to

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Speaker 1: just have you back on the show and go through

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Speaker 1: some of the stories you've covered, some of your favorites,

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Speaker 1: some of our favorites that we just want to make

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Speaker 1: sure our listeners are aware of because it's a great

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Speaker 1: show and.

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Speaker 2: I'm so happy to be here. This is so love

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Speaker 2: and I'm so happy that we're in your zeitgeist. And

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Speaker 2: it's a really it's like a lovely and bleak and

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Speaker 2: lovely distinction to hold when it's like, you know, myth

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Speaker 2: busting is one of the most important roles in society today.

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Speaker 1: Unfortunately. Yeah, it truly is all right. Before we get

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Speaker 1: into all that stuff, though, we do like to get

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Speaker 1: to know you a little bit better by asking you,

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Speaker 1: what is something either from your search history that's revealing

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Speaker 1: about who you are, or you could tell us something

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Speaker 1: that you've recently screencapped that is about who you are.

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Speaker 2: Oh, I like the screencap question. Screencaps were such a

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Speaker 2: big part of my life in the Twitter era. Okay,

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Speaker 2: something I screen captured from a New York Times article

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Speaker 2: that I'll have to look up, but it was from

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Speaker 2: a couple of years ago is about the history of

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Speaker 2: food writing. And it was I was screencapping a quote

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Speaker 2: from Benjamin Disraeli from a letter he wrote and ate

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Speaker 2: in thirty one while he was in Cairo, and he wrote,

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Speaker 2: the most delicious thing in the world is a banana.

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Speaker 2: And I was like, I gotta save that. Wow, Now,

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Speaker 2: why did I think that was interesting? It's hard to articulate,

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Speaker 2: but I guess I guess need I need to have.

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Speaker 2: I can't remember that kind of thing anymore, so this

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Speaker 2: is the kind of thing I save.

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Speaker 1: I am sometimes struck by the deliciousness of bananas, don't

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Speaker 1: I don't think I've ever made that claim, like to

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Speaker 1: that degree, but as an ingredient, and like it is

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Speaker 1: kind of a miraculous ingredient. There's a whole trunk.

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Speaker 2: Fruit is kind of miraculous.

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Speaker 1: Really, fruit really is an amazing invention invented by people

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Speaker 1: whose names we don't know, but like corticulturists years ago

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Speaker 1: made these things through just ingenious skills that we have

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Speaker 1: completely lost track of. Yeah, the banana being as creamy

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Speaker 1: as it is, Like the difference for me between a

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Speaker 1: smoothie with banana and without is like I don't think

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Speaker 1: you should be allowed.

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Speaker 2: To where would smoothie be without? We will be nowhere?

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Speaker 1: Thank you.

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Speaker 3: You think it's the high potastic I feel like it's

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Speaker 3: like those high potassium foods like avocados and bananas, they

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Speaker 3: got that butteriness, that creaminess to them.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Nature's custard. And it's also like do you ever

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Speaker 2: get too high and think about like what if the

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Speaker 2: plants are in charge? You know, because they make the fruit,

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Speaker 2: and you know, we human ingenuity, like you said, has

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Speaker 2: done so much to make this fruit delicious, like we've

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Speaker 2: carried it forward, but like they make the fruit so

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Speaker 2: that we spread it around and we've like you know,

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Speaker 2: sward high and now we're crashing, and who's going.

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Speaker 1: To take We've got these dipshits do for us? Yeah? Yeah, no,

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Speaker 1: take me over one game. Yeah, bring me to France,

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Speaker 1: that one big square mile of their finest land and

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Speaker 1: just like do everything to make us as comfortable as

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Speaker 1: possible on that land. Yeah, I uh, don't get too

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Speaker 1: high anymore. But when I did, that is the sort

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Speaker 1: of thought that would occur to me, I think, didn't

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Speaker 1: was it Michael Polland who wrote about plants like from that.

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Speaker 2: The yeah read that book? But yeah, he did the

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Speaker 2: botanist dilemma, the Botany of Desire. He did a ton

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Speaker 2: of plant books.

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Speaker 1: Not a type, but is isn't He also like the

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Speaker 1: drug the mind expansion, like yeah, rugs.

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Speaker 2: He wrote a book that I can't remember what the

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Speaker 2: title is because my friends and I decided to call

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Speaker 2: it Michael Polland does drugs.

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Speaker 1: But it is funny that that is such a high

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Speaker 1: thought that has like dominated the New York Times for

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Speaker 1: like a decade now.

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Speaker 2: Right, the New York Times seems to frequently get high though,

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Speaker 2: based on the.

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Speaker 1: Oh now this is your mind on plants? The mind

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Speaker 1: on plants, yeah. Then I think he was a guy

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Speaker 1: behind the Netflix Mind on Plants documentary as well, like

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Speaker 1: that that was an adaptation of this is your Mind

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Speaker 1: on Plants. But yeah, and then you've all know a

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Speaker 1: Harari and Sapiens kind of had a chunk where he

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Speaker 1: was basically like, we got trapped by wheat. We're in

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Speaker 1: the wheat trap and we got outsmarted by wheat.

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Speaker 2: It's the lowest horror movie. That horror movie Millennium the making.

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Speaker 2: Oh my god, it's beautiful.

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Speaker 1: The happening, Yeah, it is. The spoiler alert, but that

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Speaker 1: is the plot of the happening is essentially the plants

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Speaker 1: are killing us much quicker than wheat does, and much

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Speaker 1: more directly the corn too.

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Speaker 2: Corn.

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Speaker 1: Think what is something that you think is underrated?

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Speaker 2: Sarah, hmmm, God, I love this question. And I think

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Speaker 2: here's a little vend that I have, which is that

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Speaker 2: we've really seen sort of the technologization if that's a word,

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Speaker 2: probably not of bread in the past twenty years, right,

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Speaker 2: bread has become this thing people make spreadsheets about, and like,

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Speaker 2: God bless them. If you're making bread spreadsheets, then you're

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Speaker 2: probably doing things that mere mortals aren't even capable of.

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Speaker 2: With bread bats, Yeah, exactly. Yeah, And there's so many

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Speaker 2: you know, there's so many ways to approach something, but

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Speaker 2: I think that it's made people feel like bread is

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Speaker 2: overly technical and something they can't just kind of like

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Speaker 2: fake their way through. Yeah, and really, and to me

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Speaker 2: there's a whole other I think both ways and other

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Speaker 2: ways are equally valid, and to me, there's a lot

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Speaker 2: of joy and just kind of muddling your way through.

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Speaker 2: I was just watching a video about how to agedly

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Speaker 2: create your own yeast using dandelion fermentation, like dandelions and sugar,

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Speaker 2: and you kind of create a wild yeast that way,

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Speaker 2: and that's not you could approach that technically, but you

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Speaker 2: could also just be like I am a witch and

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Speaker 2: I'm gathering weeds and getting them in a little right.

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Speaker 2: And I think something underrated is just like messing around

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Speaker 2: in a way that isn't meant to be successful the

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Speaker 2: first time, but that gives you a feel for something,

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Speaker 2: whether that's bread or whatever else, right, as long as

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Speaker 2: you're not like a surgeon, you know, don't do that.

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Speaker 1: Right, right. Yeah. It feels like if like a jazz

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Speaker 1: musician was like recording all the notes they played in

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Speaker 1: like a solo and Okay, that was good.

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Speaker 3: See right there, I probably should have gone to the

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Speaker 3: deflat not nice time though. It's like, no, just just

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Speaker 3: let it flow out of you, because I mean, I'm

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Speaker 3: not a baker myself, but based on what you're saying,

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Speaker 3: i'd imagine it's not that hard to completely fuck up

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Speaker 3: a loaf of bread if you have the ingredients in

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Speaker 3: the semi correct proportions, right right.

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Speaker 2: It's like, you know, you'll end up with something that's

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Speaker 2: like basically bread. It might not be exactly the kind

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Speaker 2: that you want, but like it's bread, you'll be pretty

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Speaker 2: happy with it. Put butter on it, who cares? Do

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Speaker 2: another love learning it?

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Speaker 1: Make a soup out of it, just soak it or something.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, this is one of the krutons. This is

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Speaker 2: one of the things I am most strident about is

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Speaker 2: that I hate it when people sort of create the

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Speaker 2: illusion that something requires book learning.

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Speaker 1: Right and like analysis and spreadsheets and.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like it is a way into it,

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Speaker 2: but it's not obligatory.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I feel like a lot of like I'm very

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Speaker 1: bad at cooking, or at least it takes me a

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Speaker 1: really long time to cook because I am like very

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Speaker 1: precision and do not trust my instincts at all, Like

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Speaker 1: I believe I have very bad instincts and in that

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Speaker 1: in particular. But then you will see people who like

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Speaker 1: who think that you need to like over explain and

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Speaker 1: be like how did you make that exact cut in

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Speaker 1: that movie or like how did they choose that precise word?

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Speaker 1: And yeah, like like you were saying miles about jazz,

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Speaker 1: it feels like it's really the distinction between like people

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Speaker 1: who are good at an art and like not good

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Speaker 1: at an art, Like I suck at cooking, and so

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Speaker 1: I want to overanalyze it and just be like no,

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Speaker 1: but like if if I step here when I'm stirring

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Speaker 1: the dough, then like it could totally fuck everything up.

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Speaker 1: And it's like, yeah, because you don't have any instincts

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Speaker 1: in that regard, what's the.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, there's you have to you have to find the

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Speaker 3: joy in it, because like even there are dishes that

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Speaker 3: I make a lot, and I don't I don't really

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Speaker 3: write down what the difference was every time. I just

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Speaker 3: kind of like intuiting that or just like realizing like,

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Speaker 3: oh right, I did this last time, Oh don't do

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Speaker 3: this next time, And I think I'm engaging with it

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Speaker 3: in a way that's more playful rather than.

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Speaker 5: Like I'm cooking for the fucking head of state, don't

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Speaker 5: there's some kind of energy, And I think that's where

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Speaker 5: the spreadsheetism kind of creeps in, because we're not allowing

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Speaker 5: ourselves to be more playful about it.

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Speaker 1: It's like so results based to maybe an overly rigid degree.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and it's you know, and it's about whatever's

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Speaker 2: fun for you. But like, something I also love that

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Speaker 2: I read once in a Jillia Child cookbook is that

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Speaker 2: she's like, I will always tell you why I'm asking

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Speaker 2: you to do something, because I never do something if

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Speaker 2: a cookbook tells me to do it and doesn't tell

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Speaker 2: me why, you know, because there's there's so many things,

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Speaker 2: you know that it's kind of like trying to learn

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Speaker 2: how to speak English perfectly by studying grammar, where like

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Speaker 2: you get to a point where experts agree or where

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Speaker 2: you sound so correct that people can understand you. And

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Speaker 2: like a lot of the joy of it is colloquial colloquialism.

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Speaker 1: At a certain point, you just have to watch the soap operas.

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Speaker 1: You have to watch Jenny Jones and learn English from

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Speaker 1: those exactly.

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Speaker 2: And you got such good vocabulary.

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Speaker 1: Yes, oh yeah. What is something you think is overrated? H?

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Speaker 2: I think texting is overrated. I think we're all texting

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Speaker 2: too much. We got to stop all the texting. Like,

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Speaker 2: I think it's a great tool, but I feel like

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Speaker 2: there are relationships I have where like we only text

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Speaker 2: with each other for years, and I realize that phone

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Speaker 2: calls are terrifying, but I don't know, maybe bring back

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Speaker 2: postcards or something which is like a text, but there

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Speaker 2: isn't a pressure to return one immediately. You can let

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Speaker 2: it simmer for a minute, right, I feel like we

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Speaker 2: should be talking to each other more, Like I am

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Speaker 2: feeling genuinely disturbed by how we are drifting farther and

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Speaker 2: farther apart technologically. And I also like, I love not

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Speaker 2: just TikTok, but any form of addictive scully short form

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Speaker 2: video the same way I loved Tumbler ten years ago.

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Speaker 2: But I was thinking about how we've come to the

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Speaker 2: point where, in a way, it feels like if you

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Speaker 2: don't make a montage about something, did it even happen?

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Speaker 2: And like it's so cool that people have the ability

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Speaker 2: to like take cinematic approaches to their own lives. But again,

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Speaker 2: it's like, it's your life, you know. We don't have

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Speaker 2: to we don't. I'm just a big ludite who wants

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Speaker 2: everyone to make bread without a recipe. That's my dream.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and just dump your whole SD card of digital

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Speaker 3: photos into a Facebook album like the ways of the

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Speaker 3: ancients did ago.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, maybe there's something in there. I don't know,

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00:18:30,119 --> 00:18:31,920
Speaker 1: you have some weird stuff and then checked that out.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, let's go.

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Speaker 2: We'll sit for a Daghera type once a year when

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Speaker 2: the dagheratype man comes to town on his pony ryes.

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Speaker 1: Stay very still, very very still.

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Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, I know that feeling of like having

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Speaker 3: these like pure like feels like text exclusive friendships, and

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Speaker 3: they're like the way I've like cause again sometimes they're

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Speaker 3: not people like you would always talk to on the phone,

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Speaker 3: but somehow you just have good banter over text more

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Speaker 3: than you do over like on a phone call. But

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Speaker 3: then I did the thing of the bro version of

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Speaker 3: of escalating the socializing by being like, hey, man, are

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Speaker 3: you on PlayStation?

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Speaker 1: Do you play this game?

351
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Speaker 3: Then I can Then I'll then I talk to them

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00:19:12,760 --> 00:19:15,200
Speaker 3: while playing a video game, and that becomes like sort

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Speaker 3: of the basis for like a phone call or substitute.

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Speaker 3: But it's interesting how sometimes they're like you have this

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Speaker 3: feeling of like, I don't know, man, like it's just

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Speaker 3: kind of cool just texting somebody. But to your point,

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Speaker 3: there's something much more like I don't know, Like I

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Speaker 3: think being an older millennial, like I grew up talking

359
00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:35,239
Speaker 3: on the phone endlessly, right, so I do miss that

360
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Speaker 3: to a certain extent. But I think with adult responsibilities,

361
00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:40,800
Speaker 3: it's not possible to be on the phone for three

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Speaker 3: hours watching cops.

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Speaker 2: Oh my god, what a dream. Yeah, I or a

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Speaker 2: Lifetime the Lifetime Movie Network. Maybe I feel like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: there's something some inevitable process of aging at least today.

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Speaker 2: When you know time is marked by technology, is that

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Speaker 2: details of your early life begin to sound made up.

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Speaker 2: And one of them is that we could only send

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Speaker 2: a certain number of texts per month.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly right, right right?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, or be like, dude, don't call me like fucking

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Speaker 3: before eight fool, I don't have I only have free nights.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we had minutes, we had character limits. We were

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Speaker 2: very we had to be kind of economical.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I'm not. I'm bad at texting in a

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Speaker 1: lot of cases. But yeah, there are some friendships where

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00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:29,280
Speaker 1: it's like easier to just text, and then I have

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Speaker 1: like text exclusive friendships about where we're constantly talking about

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00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:38,800
Speaker 1: how we should hang more, we should hang out in yeah, yeah,

380
00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:41,440
Speaker 1: content of the text.

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Speaker 2: And it's like this plant that's like barely alive in

382
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Speaker 2: your past room and you give it like a teaspoon

383
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Speaker 2: of water every two months, and it's like I avenge me.

384
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Speaker 1: Yeah, or you're just like, oh, good thing I did

385
00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:55,880
Speaker 1: to turn the exhaust fan on while I was showering

386
00:20:55,920 --> 00:21:00,959
Speaker 1: because the humidity actually nourished that plant in as still

387
00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:03,439
Speaker 1: just mean alive a little bit, right.

388
00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:06,040
Speaker 2: So yeah, it feels like we have all these relationships

389
00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:10,000
Speaker 2: that are like scraggly and attenuated, and then we're like,

390
00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:12,680
Speaker 2: why do I feel lonely? I talk to people all day?

391
00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:14,760
Speaker 2: And it's like, well not really.

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00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:19,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, did people used to have those types of friendships

393
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Speaker 1: where they were like I've got a got a drawer

394
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Speaker 1: full of letters that I'm supposed to get back to.

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Speaker 2: Like you know, I don't know, because even then you

396
00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:33,359
Speaker 2: would be like, dear Elisha, the sheep are lamming early

397
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Speaker 2: this spring.

398
00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:39,080
Speaker 1: Right, It's like, yeah, I had to ground more wheat

399
00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:41,840
Speaker 1: at the water mill than I had expected this spring.

400
00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:48,600
Speaker 1: I hope you are well and yeahs.

401
00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:50,080
Speaker 2: You know, dear Jack, let's go fishing yours.

402
00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:58,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, Jack, twist fish and nasty. Just one word.

403
00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:03,240
Speaker 3: Letter, dude, my mom's favorite movie. She'll always say that, Dude,

404
00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:06,639
Speaker 3: my mom fucking loves Broke Back Mountain. She's just like

405
00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:10,359
Speaker 3: it's so powerful. Like she'll because like she's a film

406
00:22:10,359 --> 00:22:13,119
Speaker 3: critic and in Japan, you know, she's she kind of

407
00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:15,160
Speaker 3: has kind of got a bit of a reputation there,

408
00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:17,960
Speaker 3: and like sometimes when there's like Oscar coverage that they'll

409
00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:19,040
Speaker 3: bring her on for it because like.

410
00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:21,120
Speaker 1: You've been in La for you know, forty years covering

411
00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:23,200
Speaker 1: the business blah blah blah, and they'll be talking about

412
00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:24,760
Speaker 1: like the movies that are popping right now. She's like,

413
00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:26,040
Speaker 1: but what was it? What's the best film for you?

414
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Speaker 3: She'll always always, she's always about it that I respect

415
00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:34,000
Speaker 3: the hell that consistent.

416
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Speaker 1: She's consistent when that's your favorite movie, that's your favorite movie.

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Speaker 1: You know I can respect that as a as a

418
00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:45,840
Speaker 1: Jaws fan, you know, who will bring that up no

419
00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:49,400
Speaker 1: matter what. Yeah, I mean, I just brought it up there,

420
00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:53,960
Speaker 1: he did. Hey, all right, let's uh take a quick

421
00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:56,920
Speaker 1: break and we'll come back and we'll dig into some

422
00:22:57,000 --> 00:23:00,480
Speaker 1: great stuff from the podcast you are wrong about. We'll

423
00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:03,360
Speaker 1: be right back. What are we wrong about? You are

424
00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:20,919
Speaker 1: wrong about? And we're back. And I think we already

425
00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:25,280
Speaker 1: mentioned that you're wrong about. Is really you're really good with,

426
00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:30,080
Speaker 1: like moral panics, the satanic panic in particular, and just

427
00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:34,760
Speaker 1: the role. Yeah, it turns out the role of evangelical

428
00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:39,359
Speaker 1: Christianity and some of our biggest social movements of the

429
00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:43,919
Speaker 1: past half century. And you recently had an episode about

430
00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:49,359
Speaker 1: the pro life movement that was surprising to me, Like

431
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Speaker 1: I think you said this right off the bat that

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Speaker 1: I was not expecting you point out the pro life

433
00:23:55,160 --> 00:24:00,680
Speaker 1: movement is younger than Jeff Bridges the Deuce.

434
00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:03,320
Speaker 2: This is how we mark age now, right.

435
00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:08,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's yeah, Like I guess it's specific, Like

436
00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:11,800
Speaker 1: there were people who were opposed to abortion before that,

437
00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:20,760
Speaker 1: but the kind of concerted, cohesive, evangelical driven version kind

438
00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:25,200
Speaker 1: of starts in nineteen seventy three, and it's part of

439
00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:30,959
Speaker 1: this movement by evangelicals to be like, hey, so our values,

440
00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:36,480
Speaker 1: people hate them. We're we've got bad values. We're we're

441
00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:42,280
Speaker 1: pro segregation. Nobody else seems to like that very much.

442
00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:46,600
Speaker 1: They're pretty uh, you know, they recognize that they're going

443
00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:49,400
Speaker 1: the wrong way in terms of relevancy.

444
00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:53,320
Speaker 2: They're in need of a real makeover exactly.

445
00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:58,600
Speaker 1: And so yeah, they settle on abortion, which the most

446
00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:03,880
Speaker 1: well known evangelical in the seventies was Jimmy Carter, which

447
00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:08,800
Speaker 1: is like, that's not who I come to associate evangelicals with.

448
00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:11,560
Speaker 1: But it was like a different time, and at that

449
00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:20,480
Speaker 1: time you didn't necessarily like being super violently against people's

450
00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:23,520
Speaker 1: right to have an abortion was not one of the

451
00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:26,639
Speaker 1: first things you associated with evangelicals, no.

452
00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:29,040
Speaker 2: Or with the Republican Party. And I always love to

453
00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:34,119
Speaker 2: cite the fact that Betty Ford famously was pro choice

454
00:25:34,119 --> 00:25:38,159
Speaker 2: Republican and that that was a coherent political position for

455
00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:39,800
Speaker 2: the first lady to have at the time.

456
00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:46,320
Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah, and Jimmy Carter being an evangelical again, I

457
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:49,560
Speaker 1: a social justice warrior. Some would say he.

458
00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:52,160
Speaker 2: Loves building houses for people. Yeah, I feel like there's

459
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:56,959
Speaker 2: something that it is. Really it's interesting to reflect on

460
00:25:57,080 --> 00:26:01,520
Speaker 2: maybe arguably what has been lost because this is not

461
00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:04,520
Speaker 2: exactly my field, but many of my fields brush up

462
00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:07,679
Speaker 2: against it. And the history of evangelicism in America really

463
00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:11,600
Speaker 2: connects to the idea that God really is of and

464
00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:15,040
Speaker 2: for the people, and that prayer is about direct communication

465
00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:19,760
Speaker 2: with the divine and that you deserve to have a

466
00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:23,919
Speaker 2: connection to the Holy Spirit without there needing to be

467
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:26,960
Speaker 2: some kind of conduit. So it really is, in a way,

468
00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:32,560
Speaker 2: another wave of you know, the various religious reformations that

469
00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:36,919
Speaker 2: we've seen throughout history that have made Christianity more and

470
00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:40,600
Speaker 2: more egalitarian. And there's historically been a lot of potential

471
00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:42,879
Speaker 2: for good in that and still is. But it's just that,

472
00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:48,400
Speaker 2: you know, evangelical Christianity in twenty twenty four, I think

473
00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:54,679
Speaker 2: is absolutely synonymous with the unbelievably sinister, the acratic, kleptocratic,

474
00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:59,080
Speaker 2: fascist dictatorship that we're now basically living in. So that's

475
00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:00,960
Speaker 2: really fun. It's nice.

476
00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:04,960
Speaker 1: They really did not see it going that way, like

477
00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:07,160
Speaker 1: I guess I did, because we.

478
00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:10,639
Speaker 2: Get it's the compliment sandwich. You gotta start with the

479
00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:13,879
Speaker 2: good and then you're like, now we have some news

480
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:15,280
Speaker 2: we have we do have.

481
00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:20,080
Speaker 1: About how things have gone since then. Yeah, I mean

482
00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:22,480
Speaker 1: you point out that one point. I forget if it

483
00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:25,600
Speaker 1: was that episode or not, but just if you look

484
00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:29,679
Speaker 1: at what the evangelical movement has done over the past

485
00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:34,280
Speaker 1: forty years in our lifetime, it's kind of what paranoid

486
00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:39,480
Speaker 1: eras of the US, you like, accused communists of doing.

487
00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:42,240
Speaker 1: You know, that there's going to be this secret takeover

488
00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:46,160
Speaker 1: that they were going to secretly infiltrate our Supreme Court,

489
00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:47,600
Speaker 1: and like.

490
00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:50,800
Speaker 2: They have failed to infiltrate the media, which is nice.

491
00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:55,240
Speaker 2: You know, Interestingly, there's nothing conservatives are worse at than

492
00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:56,960
Speaker 2: making media.

493
00:27:57,119 --> 00:28:00,199
Speaker 1: Yeah, they tried turning their hat around backwards, turning the

494
00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:09,600
Speaker 1: chair around backwards, they try everything. You still can't Yeah,

495
00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:12,000
Speaker 1: but yeah, and then it's kind of what they accuse

496
00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:14,920
Speaker 1: Satanists of doing in the eighties, like secrets.

497
00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:17,640
Speaker 2: Absolutely, yeah, and what they're accusing you know, all these

498
00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:22,760
Speaker 2: drag queen groomers of doing. Now, there's a very in

499
00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:27,000
Speaker 2: any kind of abusive relationship where you think that your

500
00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:32,080
Speaker 2: user has more complicated motives than you ultimately realize that

501
00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:35,960
Speaker 2: they do. It's I think largely a projection game.

502
00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:39,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, right, And it seems like so many of the

503
00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:43,280
Speaker 3: moral panics too, like they're like, you know, like all

504
00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:45,240
Speaker 3: the ones you've mentioned, even human trafficking, they're just sort

505
00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:48,400
Speaker 3: of like built on people's inability or like unwillingness to

506
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:51,640
Speaker 3: examine actual systemic forces, and it's just much easier to

507
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:53,640
Speaker 3: chalk it up to like, yeah, it's this other thing, man,

508
00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:56,160
Speaker 3: it's these Satanists that are going that are freaking out.

509
00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:58,040
Speaker 3: It's like, it's not that there's inequality, is that there

510
00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:01,720
Speaker 3: are these flash rob where they just go through and

511
00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:04,680
Speaker 3: steal everything and it's a crime wave, and it just allows,

512
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:07,360
Speaker 3: i don't know, for people to sort of neatly put

513
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:10,320
Speaker 3: some kind of larger issue into a problem that doesn't

514
00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:12,120
Speaker 3: quite actually get to the root of the cause.

515
00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:16,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've been fascinated by slasher movies for a long time,

516
00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:19,960
Speaker 2: and I think that they do a weirdly great job

517
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:23,520
Speaker 2: of illustrating this very i think kind of core piece

518
00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:26,680
Speaker 2: of American folklore where you know, if he was Friday

519
00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:30,360
Speaker 2: the thirteenth, as the er example, like some kind of

520
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:33,280
Speaker 2: like the traditional slasher template is that somebody is wronged

521
00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:37,320
Speaker 2: in the past, Jason drowns because the counselors weren't paying

522
00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:43,360
Speaker 2: attention to making Doodle that boy drown and then some

523
00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:47,520
Speaker 2: kind of force avenging the wronged party shows up in

524
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:51,040
Speaker 2: the present and innocent teens who are simply you know,

525
00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:57,520
Speaker 2: smoking a joint or making out suffer. And the sort

526
00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:01,080
Speaker 2: of arc of it is that you can sort of

527
00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:05,960
Speaker 2: momentarily acknowledge that injustice has occurred in the past, but

528
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:08,680
Speaker 2: as long as you turn a representative of that injustice

529
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:13,200
Speaker 2: into a force so dangerous that there's no proportionate response

530
00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:18,520
Speaker 2: except killing them, then you can justify any action in

531
00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:22,360
Speaker 2: the present and kind of even out the lecture. And

532
00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:25,680
Speaker 2: that feels like a really I don't know some way

533
00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:29,200
Speaker 2: that we were we were thinking through with these summer

534
00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:33,480
Speaker 2: camp movies, the kind of dominant political ideology we were

535
00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:34,200
Speaker 2: all living under.

536
00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:40,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, well it is a kind of frontier wilderness setting

537
00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:45,680
Speaker 1: that everybody's familiar with, right that is where you know

538
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:47,720
Speaker 1: colonial like these.

539
00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:52,280
Speaker 2: Summer campser I can never populated my camp.

540
00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:56,240
Speaker 1: They're always way out there in the woods. And then yeah,

541
00:30:56,440 --> 00:31:01,560
Speaker 1: they are being punished. Like I just think that at

542
00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:06,440
Speaker 1: a certain level, there's like an unspoken knowledge amongst Americans

543
00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:10,959
Speaker 1: that like, oh, yeah, we we've got it coming, like

544
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:15,320
Speaker 1: this is this has been bad, Like what every everything

545
00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:19,640
Speaker 1: we've everything you see around you is built on top

546
00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:27,120
Speaker 1: of just ashes and atrocities, and we've got something horrible coming.

547
00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:33,239
Speaker 1: And so yeah, it makes sense when slasher films like

548
00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:36,320
Speaker 1: it does feel like if an alien came down and

549
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:39,520
Speaker 1: just like looked at our films. Slasher films would be

550
00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:43,080
Speaker 1: pretty difficult to explain if you if they didn't have

551
00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:49,840
Speaker 1: like a psychological read all right, like we get no, no, no,

552
00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:51,840
Speaker 1: it would never happen. It's just a thing we like

553
00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:56,400
Speaker 1: to imagine happened to us. Why what is wrong? I

554
00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:59,640
Speaker 1: think we got to come in or something. I don't know, I.

555
00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:04,880
Speaker 2: Just kind of active masochism. Yeah, we know we are

556
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:07,000
Speaker 2: not what was intended.

557
00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:11,040
Speaker 1: People, Right, So we put the Poulter guy's house on

558
00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:15,080
Speaker 1: top of a Native American burial ground and yeah, yeah,

559
00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:17,280
Speaker 1: that gets it out, That gets it.

560
00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:20,040
Speaker 3: It's just funny how like that that sort of that

561
00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:23,560
Speaker 3: angst manifest in different ways, sometimes in films other times,

562
00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:25,800
Speaker 3: and people screaming at school board meetings, and like.

563
00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:28,320
Speaker 1: I don't want my kids to know what a civil

564
00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:30,520
Speaker 1: war is or was about.

565
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:35,720
Speaker 2: People should be watching more horror movies, I think, yeah.

566
00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:37,360
Speaker 1: Right, I wonder if that's my aversion? Why am I

567
00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:40,400
Speaker 1: so horror averse? I wonder what am I? You don't

568
00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:43,360
Speaker 1: feel guilty about anything? Yeah, I've got to clean consciousness.

569
00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:45,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, I guess it's like a black and Japanese American.

570
00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:46,719
Speaker 3: I'm like, I don't know, bro.

571
00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:49,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, y'all got that shit coming. Yeah, you shouldn't

572
00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:53,280
Speaker 1: feel weird about not liking the horror movies. That's us

573
00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:55,560
Speaker 1: man before liking them.

574
00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:59,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just yeah, white people four hours a week

575
00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:03,240
Speaker 2: go to the horror movie clinic a movie because I.

576
00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:04,560
Speaker 1: Mean, like there's also like bad.

577
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:07,520
Speaker 3: I mean there's Japanese horror films, and there's clearly there's

578
00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:09,880
Speaker 3: a laundry list of atrocities that Japan has committed to.

579
00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:12,479
Speaker 3: And I wonder does there are there like what's German horror?

580
00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:13,400
Speaker 3: Like does this is there?

581
00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:16,600
Speaker 1: Is there like a universal language of like sort of

582
00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:20,400
Speaker 1: expressing this like through what we consider horror, because I know, cultural.

583
00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:23,080
Speaker 2: Difference is really interesting because I feel like Japanese horror

584
00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:24,760
Speaker 2: movies there are often ghosts.

585
00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:27,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, precisely, and we have so.

586
00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:30,680
Speaker 2: Few ghosts nowadays in American horror. We love demons. We

587
00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:32,920
Speaker 2: won't shut up about demons. Yeah, my chagrin.

588
00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:45,480
Speaker 1: Germany just has Werner Herzog, who's just everything is an.

589
00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:46,120
Speaker 2: Her SOG's new TV? Why crayons?

590
00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:52,000
Speaker 1: Why do you need horror movies when nature is trying

591
00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:52,840
Speaker 1: to kill you.

592
00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:55,800
Speaker 2: Always gardening with verner herd song.

593
00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:01,440
Speaker 1: It's just a it's just a documentory about hummingbirds.

594
00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:05,480
Speaker 2: In the abundance of these queens pushings that way out

595
00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:09,040
Speaker 2: through the soil. I see none of the divinity of

596
00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:15,439
Speaker 2: springtime or the pagan gods. I see only pointless tea.

597
00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:19,160
Speaker 2: But I can also use them to make a nice pesto.

598
00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:25,640
Speaker 1: The While we're on the subject of movies, you kind

599
00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:29,000
Speaker 1: of stumbled on I don't like the Andes. You did

600
00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:33,080
Speaker 1: an episode on the Andes rescue the Alive story, as

601
00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:36,280
Speaker 1: I think it's mostly known in America, the rugby team

602
00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:40,960
Speaker 1: crashes in the Andes is living there for months.

603
00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:42,440
Speaker 2: On a fricking glacier on a.

604
00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:48,120
Speaker 1: Glacier, freezing to death, starving to death. Eventually turned to

605
00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:52,799
Speaker 1: cannibalism to avoid starving to death a couple. So this

606
00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:54,960
Speaker 1: past year, one of the best movies I saw was

607
00:34:55,040 --> 00:35:01,120
Speaker 1: Society the Snow, which does a really good job of updating.

608
00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:04,320
Speaker 1: You know, there was the version in the nineties Alive

609
00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:08,319
Speaker 1: with like Ethan Hawk, I think, and you know it

610
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:12,160
Speaker 1: was like the hollywood ized version Society the Snow like

611
00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:15,480
Speaker 1: updates it and like adds a lot of the humanity

612
00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:18,759
Speaker 1: back to it, which was something that your episode really did.

613
00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:22,840
Speaker 1: But both movies really missed something that I loved that

614
00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:25,719
Speaker 1: you brought up, which is that people like they were

615
00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:28,799
Speaker 1: doing bits the whole time, right, Like the number of

616
00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:33,480
Speaker 1: bits that they did was like, at one point, they're

617
00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:36,200
Speaker 1: waiting to be rescued, and then they look off and

618
00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:42,000
Speaker 1: they see an avalanche like a white wall coming towards them, right,

619
00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:46,480
Speaker 1: and then they realized that somebody is actually using a

620
00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:49,319
Speaker 1: fire extinguisher to like make it look like there's an

621
00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:53,000
Speaker 1: avalanche coming with them as a bit, and then they're

622
00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:56,360
Speaker 1: like pretend they were like talking like planning bits for

623
00:35:56,440 --> 00:36:00,000
Speaker 1: what to do when the helicopter arrives at the scene

624
00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:03,520
Speaker 1: of their plane crash, like talking about like the funniest

625
00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:06,160
Speaker 1: thing to say while they were in it. But it's

626
00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:11,080
Speaker 1: just it's, I don't know, generally, just movies about true

627
00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:14,839
Speaker 1: stories and history feel like they have to be as

628
00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:19,000
Speaker 1: humorless as like a Christopher Nolan film, you know, right,

629
00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:23,279
Speaker 1: and totally it's just not how reality is. Like I

630
00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:25,640
Speaker 1: would have loved the bits in both of those movies.

631
00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:27,640
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, well, because even you think about like the

632
00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:31,839
Speaker 3: like the like the wild stuff, like engineering students pull

633
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:33,960
Speaker 3: like while they're in college, you know what I mean,

634
00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:38,000
Speaker 3: the fun they have like like JPL is nearby in

635
00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:42,319
Speaker 3: LA and like they do like wild just pumpkin carving contests,

636
00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:44,720
Speaker 3: just weird things are like now we're using our like power,

637
00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:47,320
Speaker 3: like brain power to get stuff to other like the moon,

638
00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:50,160
Speaker 3: to have fucking fun. And yet to think that like

639
00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:53,480
Speaker 3: they were just I don't know, at the in where

640
00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:56,000
Speaker 3: were those alamos. They were just like hanging out counting

641
00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:57,800
Speaker 3: marbles or something. They're like, all right, I'm gonna go

642
00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:00,480
Speaker 3: to bed, Yeah, see you later, like the horse and

643
00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:01,120
Speaker 3: around come on.

644
00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:04,840
Speaker 1: Though, Yeah no, yeah, those they were doing goods constantly,

645
00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:08,480
Speaker 1: like all throughout history. And I think it, I really

646
00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:12,680
Speaker 1: do think it's the same reason that comedies almost never

647
00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:15,600
Speaker 1: win at the Academy Awards, is the reason that they

648
00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:19,920
Speaker 1: feel like they need to launder movies of any like

649
00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:23,640
Speaker 1: fun when they're about history. Yeah, no, this has to

650
00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:26,919
Speaker 1: be serious. We can't. We have to like remove the fun.

651
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:29,360
Speaker 1: But I feel like it would just feel more lived

652
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:33,040
Speaker 1: in and yeah, I don't know, it would be be

653
00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:35,680
Speaker 1: a blast if we actually saw how the people were

654
00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:36,799
Speaker 1: funny at the time.

655
00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:38,960
Speaker 2: Well, and you know, and I think about when you

656
00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:40,880
Speaker 2: think about the movies that endure and that are a

657
00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:42,839
Speaker 2: part of your life and that you watch a lot,

658
00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:46,480
Speaker 2: like and you know, it's different. People have different requirements.

659
00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:50,200
Speaker 2: Some people have comfort movies that have no funny parts

660
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:53,240
Speaker 2: in them at all, God bless her, But like, aren't

661
00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:55,600
Speaker 2: most of the things that you watch more than a

662
00:37:55,640 --> 00:37:57,240
Speaker 2: couple times funny?

663
00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:01,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, they have fun the characters are having fun or

664
00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:03,000
Speaker 1: they're funny.

665
00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:05,400
Speaker 2: Or yeah, there's the you know, because it's like a

666
00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:08,000
Speaker 2: full spectrum of humanity. It's kind of like eating an

667
00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:12,919
Speaker 2: entire meal with nothing, no sweetness in it at all,

668
00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:16,680
Speaker 2: Like you can do it, but it's it feels there's

669
00:38:16,719 --> 00:38:17,320
Speaker 2: something missing.

670
00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:20,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, right. Yeah. The other thing that gout left out

671
00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:25,640
Speaker 1: of both movies that your episode kind of restores is

672
00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:28,719
Speaker 1: like it's kind of an important detail. Like you go

673
00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:33,000
Speaker 1: from the story of them like surviving getting rescued to

674
00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:36,680
Speaker 1: that that's kind of it. And then like today we

675
00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:41,120
Speaker 1: know them as like the cannibal people and the media

676
00:38:41,239 --> 00:38:45,799
Speaker 1: discovering the cannibalism, like the doctor checking them out and

677
00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:48,719
Speaker 1: being like, wait a second, these guys like had to

678
00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:52,120
Speaker 1: have been eating something. And then like a big like

679
00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:58,920
Speaker 1: moral judgment ensues and like everybody's like their family is

680
00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:02,839
Speaker 1: like upset buy it and they're like, wait, would our

681
00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:06,160
Speaker 1: parents have rather us starved to death than like the

682
00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:09,439
Speaker 1: Catholic church weighs in and is like, no, it's good

683
00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:15,799
Speaker 1: that they were eating people, which was very Yeah, every

684
00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:18,200
Speaker 1: once in a while they nail it. And then the

685
00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:21,680
Speaker 1: other detail was that they were like a few days

686
00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:27,160
Speaker 1: walk from a hotel full of food. Was like, I

687
00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:30,879
Speaker 1: don't know, I can see why you left it out,

688
00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:35,200
Speaker 1: but Jesus Christ, that's I mean, it's like triangle of

689
00:39:35,239 --> 00:39:38,640
Speaker 1: sadness like that. It's I don't know if you guys

690
00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:39,799
Speaker 1: saw that movie. I did.

691
00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:41,880
Speaker 2: I really liked that movie and I saw that the

692
00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:44,520
Speaker 2: night that midterm results were coming in, so it was

693
00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:46,960
Speaker 2: like perfect for that very distracting.

694
00:39:47,239 --> 00:39:49,640
Speaker 1: Yes, oh that's a good idea. Just watch a really

695
00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:54,680
Speaker 1: good like, save a really good movie for when for

696
00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:57,080
Speaker 1: election night. Yeah, gets sucked.

697
00:39:57,120 --> 00:39:58,959
Speaker 2: You need to be transported for real?

698
00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:00,319
Speaker 1: Yeah. Is.

699
00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:02,799
Speaker 2: I think that the kind of texture of tragedy is

700
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:04,920
Speaker 2: what makes it feel real. And I think that to

701
00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:08,480
Speaker 2: some extent, when we tell stories that are so grim

702
00:40:08,520 --> 00:40:11,399
Speaker 2: and feel so distant from us, that that's a way

703
00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:14,279
Speaker 2: of us feeling like it's not going to happen to us,

704
00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:18,080
Speaker 2: when you know, really, so many of these things are

705
00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:21,720
Speaker 2: the result of being in a boat, being in a skyscraper,

706
00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:24,120
Speaker 2: being in the path of a forest fire. Like, we're

707
00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:27,600
Speaker 2: going to have more and more epidemics and disasters and

708
00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:30,000
Speaker 2: they're just going to become part of everyday life. For

709
00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:32,359
Speaker 2: those of us who don't feel that way yet.

710
00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:35,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, I hope we can remember to be funny, and

711
00:40:35,560 --> 00:40:36,000
Speaker 1: we're going to.

712
00:40:36,040 --> 00:40:38,800
Speaker 2: Be so funny. We're going to be the funniest generation

713
00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:39,800
Speaker 2: that has ever lived.

714
00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:43,200
Speaker 1: The has ever lived through an apocalypse? Yeah right, you

715
00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:45,040
Speaker 1: know the aliens will come and they're like Wow. As

716
00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:47,560
Speaker 1: their civilization was dying, they put out some of the

717
00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:48,520
Speaker 1: best comedies.

718
00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:53,160
Speaker 2: Best content came right near me.

719
00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:56,920
Speaker 3: The guy need a Drum set out of billionaire skulls

720
00:40:57,160 --> 00:41:01,120
Speaker 3: and they're scouring doing solos. It was really quite artistic.

721
00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:04,840
Speaker 1: I have to say, oh, yeah, great, I think you

722
00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:10,200
Speaker 1: should leave quotes. As their city was burning.

723
00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:12,799
Speaker 2: Down, well then once the grid went down, they had

724
00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:16,520
Speaker 2: to make those meme museums, right, those were a real tree.

725
00:41:17,120 --> 00:41:19,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, that would be fun though, to like figure out

726
00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:22,319
Speaker 1: which memes go in the museum, Like, I might as

727
00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:24,640
Speaker 1: well just do that now. I feel like it would

728
00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:29,239
Speaker 1: be a good public works project. Biden, Come on, yeah,

729
00:41:29,400 --> 00:41:31,799
Speaker 1: come on, but these Yeah, because we're gonna have somebody

730
00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:35,200
Speaker 1: out of work TikTokers when you ban the app. Uh

731
00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:38,240
Speaker 1: you know the new Civil Conservation Corps of Meme Collection

732
00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:42,400
Speaker 1: and Remembrance. Yeah, all right, let's uh, let's take a

733
00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:55,400
Speaker 1: quick break and we'll come back. We'll keep talking and

734
00:41:55,640 --> 00:41:59,439
Speaker 1: we're back. We're and just generally not to like put

735
00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:02,600
Speaker 1: you on the spot, but I am curious that, like,

736
00:42:02,960 --> 00:42:07,759
Speaker 1: do you have some common flags that like pop up

737
00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:10,960
Speaker 1: where like just at this point, you've seen so many

738
00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:14,359
Speaker 1: stories that are full of shit, like where you're just like, oh,

739
00:42:14,440 --> 00:42:19,160
Speaker 1: like I think one that you mentioned during the I

740
00:42:19,160 --> 00:42:21,040
Speaker 1: think it was the human Trafficking episode. Yeah, it was

741
00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:24,880
Speaker 1: the human trafficking episode, because right, yeah, the Bob Craft

742
00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:29,600
Speaker 1: thing where it's it's a tactic you see used by

743
00:42:29,640 --> 00:42:33,960
Speaker 1: these low rent journalistic outlets like the New York Times

744
00:42:34,680 --> 00:42:39,960
Speaker 1: where they will just use a like the only source

745
00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:44,399
Speaker 1: in the article will be a cop or multiple like laws.

746
00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:46,040
Speaker 2: That was the first thing I was thinking of.

747
00:42:46,239 --> 00:42:49,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, yes, oh, they love to do it, don't they.

748
00:42:49,360 --> 00:42:52,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, And It's so interesting because it is you know,

749
00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:56,520
Speaker 2: not just within moral panics, but you know, really any

750
00:42:56,600 --> 00:42:59,280
Speaker 2: story that we get wrong or report in a biased fashion.

751
00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:06,120
Speaker 2: It is just journalistic tradition in this country to write

752
00:43:06,120 --> 00:43:08,520
Speaker 2: a story where the police are your only source and

753
00:43:08,560 --> 00:43:12,399
Speaker 2: where you say, you know, police say this and that,

754
00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:16,719
Speaker 2: and treat it with utter credulity, because that's how the

755
00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:20,880
Speaker 2: profession has worked historically, and so it is. It's an

756
00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:25,200
Speaker 2: interesting area too, where you know, something that has gotten

757
00:43:25,280 --> 00:43:29,520
Speaker 2: grandfathered in as a convention that we've only recently begun

758
00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:34,480
Speaker 2: chipping away at, has allowed for worse reporting because you know,

759
00:43:34,680 --> 00:43:37,759
Speaker 2: we've inherited it from I don't know what I would say,

760
00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:42,560
Speaker 2: basically the sense that reporters have to work with and

761
00:43:42,680 --> 00:43:45,600
Speaker 2: to an extent for the police in order to get access.

762
00:43:46,560 --> 00:43:50,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what they've told themselves the least, right, like

763
00:43:50,080 --> 00:43:54,000
Speaker 1: we need to do this and you know, talk to

764
00:43:54,000 --> 00:43:56,440
Speaker 1: the people who skulls they're cracking. They're a good source,

765
00:43:56,920 --> 00:43:58,960
Speaker 1: right right. And then the sense that you're you're on

766
00:43:59,040 --> 00:44:01,160
Speaker 1: the same side or on the side of the establishment,

767
00:44:01,200 --> 00:44:05,360
Speaker 1: which is also you know, hopefully that's changing. Yeah, the

768
00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:08,480
Speaker 1: Robert Craft story, in particular Robert Craft is the billionaire

769
00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:11,600
Speaker 1: owner of the New England Patriots who got caught in

770
00:44:11,680 --> 00:44:15,239
Speaker 1: a massage parlor in Florida paying for sex, And the

771
00:44:15,280 --> 00:44:19,560
Speaker 1: New York Times just extensively quotes this one share of

772
00:44:19,719 --> 00:44:22,760
Speaker 1: talking about how the women were brought in like China,

773
00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:26,160
Speaker 1: from China, from China. They were smuggled in from China,

774
00:44:26,280 --> 00:44:29,560
Speaker 1: presumably in shipping containers. I don't know if that's specifically mentioned,

775
00:44:29,560 --> 00:44:31,839
Speaker 1: but God, the trafficking people love that.

776
00:44:32,200 --> 00:44:35,239
Speaker 2: It's just like the shipping container thing. Just get this

777
00:44:35,360 --> 00:44:39,799
Speaker 2: woman a coach, a seatan coach. It'll be just as uncomfortable,

778
00:44:39,960 --> 00:44:42,400
Speaker 2: and her break her spirit just as well.

779
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:46,640
Speaker 1: But he's the cops and the forced sex with thousands

780
00:44:46,640 --> 00:44:52,360
Speaker 1: of men and you know, new women, right, new shipments

781
00:44:52,360 --> 00:44:55,600
Speaker 1: of women every couple of days or you know, every week.

782
00:44:55,520 --> 00:44:57,880
Speaker 2: Like and again, the overhead of this kind of an

783
00:44:57,920 --> 00:45:00,879
Speaker 2: outs think about how hard it is to manic inventory

784
00:45:00,960 --> 00:45:02,120
Speaker 2: if you're selling.

785
00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:07,440
Speaker 1: Beads just like an evil massage parlor corporation with the

786
00:45:07,480 --> 00:45:09,279
Speaker 1: budget of Amazon.

787
00:45:09,040 --> 00:45:11,799
Speaker 2: You know, right, yeah, And I hate to sound insensitive,

788
00:45:11,800 --> 00:45:13,880
Speaker 2: but it is like it's stuff like that where you're like,

789
00:45:13,960 --> 00:45:18,160
Speaker 2: what are the physical realities of even the building that

790
00:45:18,200 --> 00:45:20,320
Speaker 2: we're talking about this happening in because that's such a

791
00:45:20,360 --> 00:45:23,520
Speaker 2: big part of the Satanic panic, where the direness of

792
00:45:23,560 --> 00:45:26,479
Speaker 2: the crimes people are being accused of means that people

793
00:45:26,560 --> 00:45:29,840
Speaker 2: are less likely to be like, excuse me, I was

794
00:45:29,920 --> 00:45:33,919
Speaker 2: just wondering, how are this many infants going missing from

795
00:45:33,960 --> 00:45:37,200
Speaker 2: hospitals every year? None of them are reporting these crimes

796
00:45:37,320 --> 00:45:40,440
Speaker 2: or you know, because we know that, like people actually

797
00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:45,040
Speaker 2: study real crimes that occur, and so we learn sort of,

798
00:45:45,560 --> 00:45:48,799
Speaker 2: you know, it's imperfect, but we learn certainly that there

799
00:45:48,800 --> 00:45:50,680
Speaker 2: are trends, and one of them is that people who

800
00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:55,120
Speaker 2: kidnap babies from hospital nurseries tend to be a woman

801
00:45:55,160 --> 00:45:57,879
Speaker 2: who's lost a child who's trying to replace that child. Yes,

802
00:45:58,160 --> 00:46:01,040
Speaker 2: that's kind of the typical profile. And that doesn't mean

803
00:46:01,080 --> 00:46:03,799
Speaker 2: it covers everything, but it means it's you know, that

804
00:46:03,880 --> 00:46:06,480
Speaker 2: kind of accounts for the cases that people have noticed.

805
00:46:07,000 --> 00:46:09,840
Speaker 2: And if there were thousands of babies needed for Satanic

806
00:46:09,880 --> 00:46:13,200
Speaker 2: sacrifice going missing all the time in the eighties, then

807
00:46:13,200 --> 00:46:16,000
Speaker 2: why weren't hospitals noticing that? And that's just a question

808
00:46:16,080 --> 00:46:20,840
Speaker 2: about are we advancing by degrees into a worldview where

809
00:46:21,800 --> 00:46:25,000
Speaker 2: none of these questions matter? And you know that has

810
00:46:25,040 --> 00:46:27,680
Speaker 2: happened for some people clearly, but it's I don't know.

811
00:46:27,719 --> 00:46:29,840
Speaker 2: I hope it can still have a cooling effect to

812
00:46:29,920 --> 00:46:30,920
Speaker 2: bring these things up.

813
00:46:31,360 --> 00:46:35,600
Speaker 1: Yeah. So, I mean when the human trafficking episode, when

814
00:46:35,640 --> 00:46:38,720
Speaker 1: I first heard it, it was at the time when

815
00:46:39,600 --> 00:46:43,680
Speaker 1: TikTok and social media was full of videos where people

816
00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:45,799
Speaker 1: would be like, you see the zip tie on my

817
00:46:45,920 --> 00:46:46,840
Speaker 1: car door handle?

818
00:46:47,520 --> 00:46:49,920
Speaker 2: Oh, the one that you could have put there?

819
00:46:50,080 --> 00:46:54,759
Speaker 1: Yes, impossible, actually impossible when that matches the stuff that's

820
00:46:54,800 --> 00:46:58,120
Speaker 1: in your trunk. Now that means I've been marked for

821
00:46:58,280 --> 00:47:01,879
Speaker 1: trafficking and there's probably a man under my car right

822
00:47:01,920 --> 00:47:03,040
Speaker 1: now waiting, and it's.

823
00:47:02,840 --> 00:47:05,359
Speaker 2: Like, cool, why did he put the zip tie on

824
00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:05,919
Speaker 2: there then?

825
00:47:06,360 --> 00:47:11,239
Speaker 1: To remind himself obviously? Is it like parking enforcement when

826
00:47:11,239 --> 00:47:14,120
Speaker 1: they chalk your tires, when they're like, oh, this person's

827
00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:16,880
Speaker 1: been here for these two hours. Yeah, they're still there

828
00:47:16,920 --> 00:47:19,480
Speaker 1: in that chalk's there, I'll know. But yeah, it's a

829
00:47:19,640 --> 00:47:23,280
Speaker 1: very like it just it obscures like the real dangers.

830
00:47:23,280 --> 00:47:25,080
Speaker 3: Because I think that was the really eye opening part

831
00:47:25,120 --> 00:47:28,880
Speaker 3: of the episode, is even understanding how we're defining trafficked

832
00:47:28,920 --> 00:47:32,040
Speaker 3: people and who they are, because most of the time

833
00:47:32,520 --> 00:47:36,720
Speaker 3: it doesn't conform to the very like Liam Niesen based

834
00:47:36,840 --> 00:47:40,759
Speaker 3: version taken version of like trafficking that people think of

835
00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:44,600
Speaker 3: like you were snatched up violently in broad daylight and

836
00:47:44,640 --> 00:47:48,880
Speaker 3: then sent off to some you name whatever.

837
00:47:48,920 --> 00:47:51,520
Speaker 1: Specific horror appeals to the audience right to be.

838
00:47:51,480 --> 00:47:55,440
Speaker 2: One of the thousands of women servicing thousands of clients

839
00:47:55,440 --> 00:47:59,680
Speaker 2: at a massage parlor next to you palm stry place

840
00:47:59,800 --> 00:48:01,959
Speaker 2: with three parking spots in front of it. And also

841
00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:05,440
Speaker 2: it's like, you know, there's this great inflation of tragedy

842
00:48:05,480 --> 00:48:08,719
Speaker 2: where it's like, do we care about people who've been

843
00:48:08,800 --> 00:48:14,000
Speaker 2: victimized in like less extreme ways, like what about people?

844
00:48:14,200 --> 00:48:16,920
Speaker 2: Because it And again this ties to the satanic panic

845
00:48:16,920 --> 00:48:19,000
Speaker 2: where it feels like it becomes a way of obscuring

846
00:48:19,719 --> 00:48:24,560
Speaker 2: the importance of trauma that happens on a more modest scale.

847
00:48:24,719 --> 00:48:27,799
Speaker 2: Not that extreme cases don't exist, but they're more rare.

848
00:48:28,560 --> 00:48:34,839
Speaker 1: Yes, we take real world tragedies that are mundane or

849
00:48:34,920 --> 00:48:38,080
Speaker 1: are the things that people just don't want to think about,

850
00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:41,239
Speaker 1: and we put movie tropes over them, like we put

851
00:48:41,280 --> 00:48:45,040
Speaker 1: the movie tropes that like the warning the zip TI

852
00:48:45,120 --> 00:48:50,200
Speaker 1: thing is a perfect example because it's like movie villains

853
00:48:50,280 --> 00:48:52,560
Speaker 1: love to warn you before they do a thing. They

854
00:48:52,680 --> 00:48:53,120
Speaker 1: like to be.

855
00:48:53,600 --> 00:48:57,000
Speaker 6: Coming for you and then like disappeared just a lot

856
00:48:57,320 --> 00:49:00,640
Speaker 6: a Danny Gonzalez video I was reminded of through a

857
00:49:00,680 --> 00:49:05,240
Speaker 6: YouTube comment that force of literature I'm most familiar.

858
00:49:04,800 --> 00:49:07,960
Speaker 2: With these days about I think about flat earthers, but

859
00:49:08,080 --> 00:49:12,560
Speaker 2: some nature of conspiracy theories, where so many conspiracy theories

860
00:49:12,600 --> 00:49:15,759
Speaker 2: hange on the idea that like there are these clues,

861
00:49:16,000 --> 00:49:19,759
Speaker 2: there's this puzzle you're in, like a Michael Douglas in

862
00:49:19,920 --> 00:49:24,120
Speaker 2: the game game and he's like, if the government was

863
00:49:24,200 --> 00:49:27,840
Speaker 2: hiding something from you, then why would they leave clues

864
00:49:27,880 --> 00:49:30,799
Speaker 2: to help you figure it out? Like why wouldn't they

865
00:49:30,920 --> 00:49:32,680
Speaker 2: just not do that?

866
00:49:33,480 --> 00:49:35,360
Speaker 1: Right? Because they're the snowman. They wanted to give you

867
00:49:35,400 --> 00:49:36,800
Speaker 1: all the clues, mister policeman.

868
00:49:37,160 --> 00:49:37,320
Speaker 4: You know.

869
00:49:38,080 --> 00:49:42,000
Speaker 1: That's that's how they get their sick kicks, is right.

870
00:49:42,040 --> 00:49:44,600
Speaker 2: I guess. And these stories where it's like where you

871
00:49:44,640 --> 00:49:47,560
Speaker 2: get to imagine yourself as the hero of a complicated

872
00:49:47,640 --> 00:49:51,120
Speaker 2: game or Harry Potter and your letter is coming and

873
00:49:51,160 --> 00:49:54,799
Speaker 2: it's just like you're just a person. Like there are

874
00:49:54,840 --> 00:49:57,080
Speaker 2: a lot of conspiracies going on, but the thing is

875
00:49:57,080 --> 00:49:59,480
Speaker 2: that the people who conspire tend to be doing it

876
00:50:00,160 --> 00:50:04,880
Speaker 2: internal memos or out loud or in books that they publish.

877
00:50:04,280 --> 00:50:09,759
Speaker 1: Yes, right, and just they have all the money and

878
00:50:10,080 --> 00:50:13,879
Speaker 1: a big enough legal team that you can't point out

879
00:50:13,920 --> 00:50:14,400
Speaker 1: and it's.

880
00:50:14,200 --> 00:50:16,200
Speaker 2: Not a puzzle. They just say it because they don't

881
00:50:16,239 --> 00:50:18,560
Speaker 2: really think there's anything wrong with what they're doing, or

882
00:50:18,600 --> 00:50:20,640
Speaker 2: if they think that what they're doing is illegal, then

883
00:50:20,640 --> 00:50:25,640
Speaker 2: they'll you know, still say it like Rudy Juliani.

884
00:50:25,160 --> 00:50:28,200
Speaker 3: Right right, and it's be like, so what though, like.

885
00:50:30,400 --> 00:50:35,000
Speaker 1: Everybody does that actually do think? Yeah.

886
00:50:35,440 --> 00:50:37,319
Speaker 3: The other thing that really struck me too is just

887
00:50:38,200 --> 00:50:42,080
Speaker 3: like the the way that especially things like human trafficking

888
00:50:42,080 --> 00:50:44,239
Speaker 3: it's talked about, is like they talk about it is

889
00:50:44,239 --> 00:50:48,160
Speaker 3: if it's this this gigantic thing that's happening, like hundreds

890
00:50:48,160 --> 00:50:51,960
Speaker 3: of hundreds of thousands of people perhaps are being taken

891
00:50:52,080 --> 00:50:53,359
Speaker 3: and trafficked.

892
00:50:53,400 --> 00:50:56,040
Speaker 1: Or it happened to anyone, could have happened to anyone.

893
00:50:56,160 --> 00:50:58,120
Speaker 2: But then it's the way to white women in their

894
00:50:58,160 --> 00:51:01,160
Speaker 2: thirties who are beginning to feel less valued by society

895
00:51:01,280 --> 00:51:04,840
Speaker 2: now that they're aging visibly. I personally think.

896
00:51:06,040 --> 00:51:08,280
Speaker 1: The Stepford Wives episode, right.

897
00:51:08,400 --> 00:51:10,440
Speaker 3: Or even like or even just like the idea of

898
00:51:10,719 --> 00:51:13,720
Speaker 3: you know, like that they were like you know, certain teachers,

899
00:51:13,760 --> 00:51:16,520
Speaker 3: there was information circulating around about be like how to

900
00:51:16,560 --> 00:51:19,080
Speaker 3: identify if one of your students are being trafficked and

901
00:51:19,120 --> 00:51:20,239
Speaker 3: it's like depressed?

902
00:51:20,239 --> 00:51:23,080
Speaker 2: What if they're being abused by their very own parents?

903
00:51:23,239 --> 00:51:26,640
Speaker 1: Right right, Yeah, we don't care about that. No, no, no trap.

904
00:51:26,680 --> 00:51:28,360
Speaker 3: But that's what I mean, Like, that's it's always interesting

905
00:51:28,400 --> 00:51:30,960
Speaker 3: to see because even that description was so bad. It

906
00:51:31,040 --> 00:51:32,879
Speaker 3: was merely like even you brought up on the show.

907
00:51:32,880 --> 00:51:35,120
Speaker 3: It's like you're describing a teenager.

908
00:51:34,719 --> 00:51:39,040
Speaker 1: Like someone who's like becoming maybe a little more confrontational,

909
00:51:39,200 --> 00:51:42,839
Speaker 1: maybe tired because they don't sleep, maybe like they do

910
00:51:42,880 --> 00:51:46,719
Speaker 1: they have a bar code tattoo, Yeah, a bar code perhaps,

911
00:51:46,719 --> 00:51:50,640
Speaker 1: Like come on, now, like there's not skew numbers like this,

912
00:51:50,880 --> 00:51:51,640
Speaker 1: Now what movie is?

913
00:51:51,800 --> 00:51:54,200
Speaker 2: You would just chip them? At this point That's what

914
00:51:54,280 --> 00:51:57,960
Speaker 2: I do at my child trafficking concern. Of course, what

915
00:51:58,040 --> 00:51:59,280
Speaker 2: everybody does now.

916
00:51:59,640 --> 00:52:01,480
Speaker 3: Right, and so much of that is born out of

917
00:52:01,520 --> 00:52:05,200
Speaker 3: just the way even these numbers are gathered. But then people,

918
00:52:05,320 --> 00:52:07,920
Speaker 3: depending on what your perspective is, like, well, I don't

919
00:52:07,920 --> 00:52:09,960
Speaker 3: want to go off what law enforcement said that there's

920
00:52:10,000 --> 00:52:13,680
Speaker 3: maybe around five hundred cases. I'd rather go with the

921
00:52:13,760 --> 00:52:16,400
Speaker 3: number that is by the thousands, where the reporting on

922
00:52:16,440 --> 00:52:19,680
Speaker 3: that is not it's not accurate, and it's quite flawed.

923
00:52:19,719 --> 00:52:22,200
Speaker 3: But again, for people who want to sort of pedal

924
00:52:22,640 --> 00:52:25,640
Speaker 3: this sort of myth around it, it's very convenient to

925
00:52:25,719 --> 00:52:27,840
Speaker 3: be like, well, look a look at this reporting. I mean, now,

926
00:52:27,920 --> 00:52:30,279
Speaker 3: don't look too deep into how that is, because it

927
00:52:30,320 --> 00:52:33,000
Speaker 3: can be a child that runs away multiple times and

928
00:52:33,040 --> 00:52:35,440
Speaker 3: if a parent says I think they're being trafficked, that

929
00:52:35,560 --> 00:52:38,200
Speaker 3: we can count that as like ten times. Yeah, that's

930
00:52:38,239 --> 00:52:41,560
Speaker 3: ten traffickings. Yeah, that's ten takens.

931
00:52:41,960 --> 00:52:42,120
Speaker 1: Right.

932
00:52:42,360 --> 00:52:44,560
Speaker 2: I guess watched my own Private Idaho for the first

933
00:52:44,600 --> 00:52:46,759
Speaker 2: time in a really long time, and it's, you know,

934
00:52:46,920 --> 00:52:49,920
Speaker 2: such a kind of artifact of thirty years ago, but

935
00:52:49,920 --> 00:52:53,000
Speaker 2: it's also you know, it's about young like teenage hustlers

936
00:52:53,640 --> 00:52:56,200
Speaker 2: working in the Northwest, and there's a scene where some

937
00:52:56,280 --> 00:52:58,680
Speaker 2: of them are telling, you know, these really horrifying stories

938
00:52:58,719 --> 00:53:02,279
Speaker 2: of assaults that they've expect sperienced and what they've gone

939
00:53:02,320 --> 00:53:07,000
Speaker 2: through at the hands of clients. But also you know

940
00:53:07,040 --> 00:53:09,320
Speaker 2: that this is a picture of you know, this pretty

941
00:53:10,160 --> 00:53:13,040
Speaker 2: you know, as far as I can tell, pretty realistic

942
00:53:13,120 --> 00:53:15,799
Speaker 2: view of what it's like to be kind of on

943
00:53:15,840 --> 00:53:18,080
Speaker 2: your own trying to make it in a world that's dangerous,

944
00:53:18,120 --> 00:53:23,000
Speaker 2: but maybe is the only world that there can exist

945
00:53:23,080 --> 00:53:26,000
Speaker 2: for you because you have no home to go back

946
00:53:26,040 --> 00:53:29,160
Speaker 2: to or you were kicked out of it, or at

947
00:53:29,239 --> 00:53:33,200
Speaker 2: home is still less safe than being out here, you know.

948
00:53:33,360 --> 00:53:37,759
Speaker 2: And that's I think, so much more present of a

949
00:53:37,840 --> 00:53:41,839
Speaker 2: danger and so much more real danger, yeah, than what

950
00:53:41,840 --> 00:53:45,120
Speaker 2: we've been talking about as a conservative fantasy. But then

951
00:53:45,280 --> 00:53:49,839
Speaker 2: it's like, again, that's a problem that directs our attention inwards,

952
00:53:50,040 --> 00:53:53,200
Speaker 2: and so we love to make up a bigger problem

953
00:53:53,239 --> 00:53:55,279
Speaker 2: outside to distract ourselves with.

954
00:53:55,920 --> 00:53:59,600
Speaker 1: Right, right, trafficking is like that. The crimes of trafficking,

955
00:53:59,600 --> 00:54:04,080
Speaker 1: the section abuse, the you know, being under the influence

956
00:54:04,120 --> 00:54:07,960
Speaker 1: of somebody who is you know, exploiting you. Those things

957
00:54:08,320 --> 00:54:11,799
Speaker 1: actually do happen. The numbers are not on par with

958
00:54:11,880 --> 00:54:15,080
Speaker 1: like what the guy who made Sound Freedom might lead

959
00:54:15,160 --> 00:54:18,000
Speaker 1: you to believe, but they do happen, and it's usually

960
00:54:18,040 --> 00:54:21,000
Speaker 1: too like you mentioned, like queer youth who are kicked

961
00:54:21,040 --> 00:54:24,520
Speaker 1: out of their homes, just people who are living in

962
00:54:24,560 --> 00:54:28,000
Speaker 1: poverty and like need a place to sleep and are

963
00:54:28,000 --> 00:54:31,279
Speaker 1: therefore like forced to do things that they don't want

964
00:54:31,320 --> 00:54:33,839
Speaker 1: to to just like avoid being on the street and

965
00:54:33,880 --> 00:54:38,320
Speaker 1: like having their lives put in danger. And but yeah,

966
00:54:38,440 --> 00:54:44,160
Speaker 1: those are things that are endemic, systemic problems that people

967
00:54:44,239 --> 00:54:48,959
Speaker 1: would rather not pay attention to. And so you get this,

968
00:54:50,239 --> 00:54:55,839
Speaker 1: like it's really wild how there's not like the original

969
00:54:56,280 --> 00:54:59,960
Speaker 1: like that the US, the world is such a big place,

970
00:55:00,160 --> 00:55:02,480
Speaker 1: like you could you should be able to find an

971
00:55:02,520 --> 00:55:06,040
Speaker 1: example of the thing that you want to happen, Like you.

972
00:55:05,960 --> 00:55:10,719
Speaker 2: Can find examples of really weird versions. You can have

973
00:55:10,840 --> 00:55:13,000
Speaker 2: anything you can think of. Someone is put in their

974
00:55:13,040 --> 00:55:14,680
Speaker 2: rectum somewhere in this country.

975
00:55:14,840 --> 00:55:17,360
Speaker 1: They have not come up with, like all they have

976
00:55:17,560 --> 00:55:20,040
Speaker 1: is taken and now the sound of like they have

977
00:55:20,239 --> 00:55:23,240
Speaker 1: Liam Neeson movies and the sound of freedom, like that's

978
00:55:23,400 --> 00:55:26,399
Speaker 1: what they've got. They don't even have their like one

979
00:55:27,160 --> 00:55:29,839
Speaker 1: news story that they've like just exploited to be like

980
00:55:29,880 --> 00:55:33,360
Speaker 1: this happens all the time, because yeah, it's just there's

981
00:55:33,400 --> 00:55:34,760
Speaker 1: so little there there.

982
00:55:35,080 --> 00:55:36,920
Speaker 2: Right, there needs to be a ranking system, and this

983
00:55:37,080 --> 00:55:41,279
Speaker 2: is like a level lower than like you know, crime

984
00:55:41,480 --> 00:55:45,640
Speaker 2: like stranger danger kidnappings, which do occur, but just not

985
00:55:45,800 --> 00:55:49,000
Speaker 2: on the scale that we ever said they did, and

986
00:55:49,080 --> 00:55:51,439
Speaker 2: so therefore can be blown out of proportion and used

987
00:55:51,480 --> 00:55:56,120
Speaker 2: to pass laws that chip away at the rights of defendants.

988
00:55:56,280 --> 00:55:59,439
Speaker 2: But but yeah, we're we're now on on a lower tier,

989
00:55:59,640 --> 00:56:04,640
Speaker 2: the tier if you will, where nothing is real.

990
00:56:05,400 --> 00:56:07,440
Speaker 1: Yes, just the guys from w Liam Neeson.

991
00:56:07,760 --> 00:56:10,719
Speaker 3: Like, from your perspective, do you think a lot of

992
00:56:11,280 --> 00:56:13,919
Speaker 3: you know, pushing these kinds of like moral panics because

993
00:56:13,960 --> 00:56:19,640
Speaker 3: like the are to do with trying to criminalize things

994
00:56:19,640 --> 00:56:22,319
Speaker 3: that they don't want. But it's also because like in

995
00:56:22,400 --> 00:56:24,520
Speaker 3: built with all of these moral panics, like we've just said,

996
00:56:24,600 --> 00:56:28,360
Speaker 3: is like this just lack of desire to actually confront

997
00:56:28,440 --> 00:56:32,480
Speaker 3: what these systemic forces are. And I guess by trying

998
00:56:32,520 --> 00:56:34,879
Speaker 3: to solve it, then they just enact all kinds of

999
00:56:34,960 --> 00:56:37,120
Speaker 3: like you know, criminal like just to try and criminalize

1000
00:56:37,120 --> 00:56:39,799
Speaker 3: as much shit as possible and that's the solution. What

1001
00:56:39,800 --> 00:56:41,799
Speaker 3: do you think the sort of balance is between like

1002
00:56:41,880 --> 00:56:45,160
Speaker 3: the agenda and just sort of the human sort of

1003
00:56:45,560 --> 00:56:48,600
Speaker 3: the human nature of not wanting to actually take on

1004
00:56:48,640 --> 00:56:52,479
Speaker 3: a problem at all, because it feels like they work

1005
00:56:52,560 --> 00:56:55,520
Speaker 3: so hand in hand with so many things that it

1006
00:56:55,520 --> 00:56:58,400
Speaker 3: feels like maybe they do start with something but being like, no,

1007
00:56:58,520 --> 00:57:00,640
Speaker 3: this is an issue, and then it turns and actually

1008
00:57:00,680 --> 00:57:03,760
Speaker 3: no immigrants are bad, and you're like whoa, whoa, Okay,

1009
00:57:03,880 --> 00:57:05,560
Speaker 3: well which one was it? And I know that some

1010
00:57:05,600 --> 00:57:09,000
Speaker 3: people are absolutely on the anti immigration thing, but a

1011
00:57:09,040 --> 00:57:11,640
Speaker 3: lot I think people get pulled in, probably because it's

1012
00:57:11,680 --> 00:57:13,879
Speaker 3: the don't want to confront the realities of what's going

1013
00:57:13,920 --> 00:57:14,640
Speaker 3: on side of the coin.

1014
00:57:14,719 --> 00:57:18,320
Speaker 2: Maybe yeah, yeah, And I think that there's I think something,

1015
00:57:18,320 --> 00:57:20,600
Speaker 2: you know, this kind of connects with the pro life movement,

1016
00:57:20,960 --> 00:57:23,560
Speaker 2: And as you've been saying, I think that something you know,

1017
00:57:24,000 --> 00:57:26,880
Speaker 2: the human trafficking panic, the satanic panic, a really strong

1018
00:57:26,920 --> 00:57:31,120
Speaker 2: moral panic, feels like it endures and it returns and

1019
00:57:31,160 --> 00:57:34,160
Speaker 2: it never really leaves us, partly because it comes from

1020
00:57:34,200 --> 00:57:37,800
Speaker 2: so many fronts, and also because it addresses some kind

1021
00:57:37,840 --> 00:57:41,120
Speaker 2: of real concern right because I think, you know, we

1022
00:57:41,240 --> 00:57:45,680
Speaker 2: saw such a huge takeoff in the summer of twenty

1023
00:57:45,760 --> 00:57:49,720
Speaker 2: twenty of you know, the claim that you can't put

1024
00:57:49,720 --> 00:57:53,120
Speaker 2: your kid in a mask because that's that makes it

1025
00:57:53,160 --> 00:57:55,560
Speaker 2: easier for the human traffickers. Do you remember that we

1026
00:57:55,560 --> 00:57:56,680
Speaker 2: were doing that for a while.

1027
00:57:57,200 --> 00:57:58,560
Speaker 1: It was like, you can't put.

1028
00:57:58,440 --> 00:58:00,640
Speaker 2: Your kid in a mask because God knows, you can't

1029
00:58:01,000 --> 00:58:04,360
Speaker 2: tell what your child looks like with their face covered.

1030
00:58:04,480 --> 00:58:08,520
Speaker 2: You don't like wash their clothes and do their hair right,

1031
00:58:09,080 --> 00:58:11,960
Speaker 2: and you know, and that felt to me, this at

1032
00:58:12,000 --> 00:58:13,680
Speaker 2: least was what I thought at the time and still

1033
00:58:13,720 --> 00:58:15,840
Speaker 2: think some kind of response to the fact that, like

1034
00:58:16,480 --> 00:58:19,320
Speaker 2: we understood that what was happening was really really bad

1035
00:58:19,440 --> 00:58:25,840
Speaker 2: for kids, you know, Like I was very very conservative,

1036
00:58:26,600 --> 00:58:30,640
Speaker 2: small c conservative, careful con conservative about you know. I

1037
00:58:30,640 --> 00:58:33,040
Speaker 2: didn't go into like a place of business for like

1038
00:58:33,080 --> 00:58:36,520
Speaker 2: a full year. I was extremely strict with myself in

1039
00:58:36,600 --> 00:58:39,120
Speaker 2: terms of COVID coutiousness, just because I knew that if

1040
00:58:39,160 --> 00:58:43,920
Speaker 2: I gave myself any parameter to screw up, I probably would.

1041
00:58:44,440 --> 00:58:46,920
Speaker 2: And I had sort of sensitive people in my orbit,

1042
00:58:47,320 --> 00:58:51,640
Speaker 2: I mean, immune system wise, so you know, just being

1043
00:58:51,640 --> 00:58:54,200
Speaker 2: fully on you know, that being my life at the time,

1044
00:58:54,400 --> 00:58:57,480
Speaker 2: I felt I still felt, as it's very reasonable to

1045
00:58:57,480 --> 00:59:01,040
Speaker 2: feel that like we were all being sort of broiled

1046
00:59:01,080 --> 00:59:04,120
Speaker 2: alive psychologically and there was nothing we could do about it,

1047
00:59:04,200 --> 00:59:06,480
Speaker 2: and that this was dangerous for children. And I think

1048
00:59:06,520 --> 00:59:09,800
Speaker 2: that the kind of the way the trafficking panic about

1049
00:59:09,920 --> 00:59:13,560
Speaker 2: children took root at that time, I think, and maybe

1050
00:59:13,560 --> 00:59:15,680
Speaker 2: this is charitable of me, but I don't think it's

1051
00:59:16,120 --> 00:59:19,280
Speaker 2: you know, it's not maybeing nice to say this. It's

1052
00:59:19,320 --> 00:59:21,240
Speaker 2: just kind of thinking about what would be on people's

1053
00:59:21,280 --> 00:59:23,760
Speaker 2: minds that like, if you want and also cynically, if

1054
00:59:23,800 --> 00:59:25,640
Speaker 2: you want to whip up a panic. You look at

1055
00:59:25,680 --> 00:59:28,400
Speaker 2: what are parents upset about. They know that something bad

1056
00:59:29,320 --> 00:59:31,920
Speaker 2: is going on in terms of their children's welfare, so

1057
00:59:31,960 --> 00:59:34,120
Speaker 2: you can invent something that they would rather be the

1058
00:59:34,160 --> 00:59:35,120
Speaker 2: bad thing going.

1059
00:59:34,920 --> 00:59:39,560
Speaker 1: On, right, Yeah, and just all that everybody's under a

1060
00:59:39,600 --> 00:59:42,240
Speaker 1: lot of emotional purmoil.

1061
00:59:42,600 --> 00:59:48,160
Speaker 2: We're not thinking critically right in those periods so much. Yeah, Yeah,

1062
00:59:48,240 --> 00:59:52,040
Speaker 2: I certainly wasn't. But I think just ultimately the point

1063
00:59:52,360 --> 00:59:57,040
Speaker 2: that you land on in that episode is to kind

1064
00:59:57,040 --> 01:00:00,040
Speaker 2: of understand what is actually at stake and what is

1065
01:00:00,080 --> 01:00:04,640
Speaker 2: actually the intention of this concern over human trafficking, Like

1066
01:00:05,360 --> 01:00:09,480
Speaker 2: when they actually bust a quote unquote human trafficking ring,

1067
01:00:09,800 --> 01:00:12,960
Speaker 2: Like there's an example of a place that was providing,

1068
01:00:13,600 --> 01:00:17,120
Speaker 2: you know, services for sex workers in Seattle and it

1069
01:00:17,160 --> 01:00:23,880
Speaker 2: got busted, and you know, when they're criminalizing the people,

1070
01:00:24,960 --> 01:00:28,320
Speaker 2: they don't seem interested in taking care of the victim.

1071
01:00:28,440 --> 01:00:30,440
Speaker 2: They basically tell the victim like, you can go to

1072
01:00:30,560 --> 01:00:33,840
Speaker 2: jail for sex work, or you can like go to

1073
01:00:34,080 --> 01:00:38,160
Speaker 2: this shelter where we'll take away your phone and internet,

1074
01:00:38,520 --> 01:00:41,640
Speaker 2: you know, like a trafficker would like, you know, like

1075
01:00:42,120 --> 01:00:47,520
Speaker 2: we'll now we'll treat you like we are cleaning about it.

1076
01:00:47,680 --> 01:00:51,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, but yeah, it's and a lot of it. Like

1077
01:00:51,120 --> 01:00:53,360
Speaker 1: I mean, people should go listen to the episode. There's

1078
01:00:53,360 --> 01:00:55,680
Speaker 1: also some really you know that you're much more likely

1079
01:00:55,720 --> 01:00:58,560
Speaker 1: to be called out as a trafficker if you are

1080
01:00:58,680 --> 01:01:02,080
Speaker 1: part of like an interracial thing family these days, and

1081
01:01:02,320 --> 01:01:04,760
Speaker 1: that actually goes back to the what the intent of

1082
01:01:04,960 --> 01:01:08,360
Speaker 1: the original trafficking laws was were was like you know,

1083
01:01:08,480 --> 01:01:14,160
Speaker 1: anxiety over slavery ending and women's rights happening, and like

1084
01:01:14,200 --> 01:01:17,280
Speaker 1: they needed a way to make it against the law

1085
01:01:17,400 --> 01:01:19,560
Speaker 1: for interracial couples to date each other.

1086
01:01:19,840 --> 01:01:23,959
Speaker 2: And yeah, so and perceived advances in civil rights seem

1087
01:01:24,080 --> 01:01:29,640
Speaker 2: like a really important ingredient. Yes, for moral panics too, Yeah.

1088
01:01:29,200 --> 01:01:31,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, because what was that Like I think there

1089
01:01:31,720 --> 01:01:34,160
Speaker 3: was something that was that was in the episode is

1090
01:01:34,280 --> 01:01:37,920
Speaker 3: essentially that like around any kind of trafficking pipeline, it

1091
01:01:37,960 --> 01:01:40,280
Speaker 3: always led to some kind of anti immigration sentiment.

1092
01:01:41,120 --> 01:01:42,240
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Like it was just sort.

1093
01:01:42,120 --> 01:01:44,400
Speaker 3: Of like that was like the that was the sort

1094
01:01:44,400 --> 01:01:46,760
Speaker 3: of sequence there, and I think just yet, yeah, with

1095
01:01:46,840 --> 01:01:48,880
Speaker 3: like so many things, like so many of these sort

1096
01:01:48,880 --> 01:01:51,280
Speaker 3: of moral panics, right, like whether it's the anti choice

1097
01:01:51,320 --> 01:01:54,600
Speaker 3: movement or human trafficking, like the rhetoric is so victim focused.

1098
01:01:54,960 --> 01:01:55,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, and but.

1099
01:01:55,600 --> 01:01:58,200
Speaker 3: Really you just but it really reveals itself how much

1100
01:01:58,240 --> 01:02:00,600
Speaker 3: the victims were merely just sort of the road to

1101
01:02:00,640 --> 01:02:03,640
Speaker 3: the criminalization of something, because at the end of the day,

1102
01:02:03,800 --> 01:02:07,560
Speaker 3: there's no one actually advocating for helping the victims in

1103
01:02:07,560 --> 01:02:09,760
Speaker 3: any meaningful way for all the people like, well, then yeah,

1104
01:02:09,760 --> 01:02:12,480
Speaker 3: how about adoption if that's a route without having to

1105
01:02:12,520 --> 01:02:15,880
Speaker 3: have an abortion, but we have we do fuck all

1106
01:02:15,920 --> 01:02:19,000
Speaker 3: in terms of creating a system that helps people, whether

1107
01:02:19,040 --> 01:02:21,720
Speaker 3: that's like a foster care system or making it easier

1108
01:02:21,760 --> 01:02:24,280
Speaker 3: to adopt. It just like it just falls apart. It's

1109
01:02:24,280 --> 01:02:25,800
Speaker 3: just sort of like, let me just chum the water

1110
01:02:25,920 --> 01:02:28,840
Speaker 3: with this first part. And then if you're really asking

1111
01:02:28,840 --> 01:02:30,120
Speaker 3: me to do the work, Oh no, I'm not.

1112
01:02:30,240 --> 01:02:32,160
Speaker 1: I'm not. It's not more about the end.

1113
01:02:32,160 --> 01:02:33,240
Speaker 2: It comes back to Shaws.

1114
01:02:33,960 --> 01:02:39,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, Sarah, what a pleasure having you. Thank you so

1115
01:02:39,600 --> 01:02:43,000
Speaker 1: much for taking the time to gosh, where can people

1116
01:02:43,160 --> 01:02:45,560
Speaker 1: find you and follow you and all that good stuff?

1117
01:02:45,640 --> 01:02:49,280
Speaker 2: Ooh, you can find me at You are good And

1118
01:02:49,320 --> 01:02:53,400
Speaker 2: you're wrong about wherever you get your podcasts. I've always

1119
01:02:53,440 --> 01:02:56,800
Speaker 2: said I should start a podcast service called Wherever because

1120
01:02:56,840 --> 01:03:01,200
Speaker 2: I would get free advertising everywhere into the past and

1121
01:03:01,240 --> 01:03:04,400
Speaker 2: you can find me there. And also I live in

1122
01:03:04,440 --> 01:03:09,160
Speaker 2: Portland and I'm always looking for fun stuff to do.

1123
01:03:09,200 --> 01:03:13,320
Speaker 2: So if you have an event or a art thing

1124
01:03:13,600 --> 01:03:16,000
Speaker 2: or a fun I don't know you got a neat

1125
01:03:16,000 --> 01:03:18,480
Speaker 2: squash variety, let me know about it.

1126
01:03:18,800 --> 01:03:21,600
Speaker 1: There you go, And is there a work of media

1127
01:03:21,680 --> 01:03:24,600
Speaker 1: that you've been enjoying, either a tweet, anything from a

1128
01:03:24,640 --> 01:03:26,440
Speaker 1: tweet to a film.

1129
01:03:27,600 --> 01:03:30,919
Speaker 2: I'm so happy you asked, because I fell in love

1130
01:03:31,000 --> 01:03:33,960
Speaker 2: recently with I don't know if either of you remember this,

1131
01:03:34,080 --> 01:03:37,960
Speaker 2: but the web series Chris Fleming did like ten years ago, Gail.

1132
01:03:38,440 --> 01:03:41,200
Speaker 2: It's like forty episodes of it. There's a whole arc.

1133
01:03:42,120 --> 01:03:46,560
Speaker 2: Gail is the ultimate high strong mom from Massachusetts. I agree,

1134
01:03:46,600 --> 01:03:49,520
Speaker 2: an absolute genius. The Gail series got me through the

1135
01:03:49,600 --> 01:03:52,040
Speaker 2: darkest days of winter and there's an episode I think

1136
01:03:52,080 --> 01:03:55,640
Speaker 2: called The Dinner Party, Part two where Gail forces her

1137
01:03:55,680 --> 01:04:00,560
Speaker 2: a cappella troop to lip sync to Yannie Live at

1138
01:04:00,560 --> 01:04:03,880
Speaker 2: the Acropolis and it is still one of the funniest

1139
01:04:03,880 --> 01:04:09,480
Speaker 2: things I have ever seen in my whole life. And

1140
01:04:10,600 --> 01:04:12,720
Speaker 2: the Holy Spirit was in Chris Flemming that day. That's

1141
01:04:12,760 --> 01:04:13,360
Speaker 2: what I believed.

1142
01:04:16,480 --> 01:04:19,520
Speaker 1: Amazing miles. Where can people find you as their working

1143
01:04:19,560 --> 01:04:20,520
Speaker 1: media you've been enjoy it.

1144
01:04:20,640 --> 01:04:24,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, at Miles of Gray on Twitter and Instagram. Obviously

1145
01:04:24,200 --> 01:04:26,160
Speaker 3: you know about mad Boosties. You know about four to

1146
01:04:26,160 --> 01:04:30,120
Speaker 3: twenty day fiance find me there also, uh working media.

1147
01:04:30,680 --> 01:04:33,880
Speaker 1: Man. These Korean reality shows on Netflix, they get me

1148
01:04:34,160 --> 01:04:37,240
Speaker 1: all the time. There's a new season of the show

1149
01:04:37,360 --> 01:04:40,480
Speaker 1: Physical one hundred that's out that's like just about like

1150
01:04:40,960 --> 01:04:43,400
Speaker 1: I guess they just pick like one hundred fit people

1151
01:04:43,800 --> 01:04:46,520
Speaker 1: to do just like the wildest stuff. Like the first

1152
01:04:46,520 --> 01:04:49,240
Speaker 1: thing is like who can just run on it? Yeah?

1153
01:04:49,280 --> 01:04:51,480
Speaker 3: The first season is like who can just hang off

1154
01:04:51,520 --> 01:04:54,680
Speaker 3: this till their muscles give out? Or like in the

1155
01:04:54,760 --> 01:04:57,160
Speaker 3: second seed the second season, the first challenge they do

1156
01:04:57,200 --> 01:04:59,720
Speaker 3: to like start sorting people's like who's just gonna run

1157
01:04:59,800 --> 01:05:01,360
Speaker 3: so hard on these treadmills?

1158
01:05:01,840 --> 01:05:06,640
Speaker 1: Like yeah, just spread someone? Yeah Yeah. As someone who

1159
01:05:06,720 --> 01:05:08,960
Speaker 1: would never do that, I'm always like, Wow, I'm just

1160
01:05:09,040 --> 01:05:12,880
Speaker 1: fascinated by people who are just such physical specimens. And

1161
01:05:13,080 --> 01:05:16,240
Speaker 1: it's just a very interesting way to watch a competition

1162
01:05:16,280 --> 01:05:18,840
Speaker 1: reality show and learn some Korean along the way. Also,

1163
01:05:18,880 --> 01:05:24,000
Speaker 1: So yeah, watching amazing tweet I've been enjoying. Jason Smiley

1164
01:05:24,080 --> 01:05:28,080
Speaker 1: tweeted a picture of Lenny Kravitz looking shredded and said

1165
01:05:28,160 --> 01:05:32,360
Speaker 1: Lenny Kravitz turned sixty in a couple months, what's your excuse?

1166
01:05:32,880 --> 01:05:35,480
Speaker 1: And then honey, I am a guy and I shrunk.

1167
01:05:35,520 --> 01:05:39,560
Speaker 1: The kids on Twitter retweeted that and wrote, I don't

1168
01:05:39,680 --> 01:05:46,160
Speaker 1: understand was I supposed to kill him? What's your excuse?

1169
01:05:47,400 --> 01:05:50,040
Speaker 1: You can find me on Twitter at Jack Underscore Obrian.

1170
01:05:50,080 --> 01:05:52,919
Speaker 1: You can find us on Twitter at daily Zeikeeist. Read

1171
01:05:53,000 --> 01:05:55,680
Speaker 1: The Daily Zeitgeist on Instagram. We have Facebook fan page

1172
01:05:55,680 --> 01:05:57,920
Speaker 1: on a website, Daily zeikeist dot com. Wore you post

1173
01:05:57,920 --> 01:06:01,400
Speaker 1: our episodes and our foot note where we link off

1174
01:06:01,440 --> 01:06:03,760
Speaker 1: t information that we talked about in today's episode, as

1175
01:06:03,760 --> 01:06:06,840
Speaker 1: well as a song that we think you might enjoy. Miles,

1176
01:06:07,040 --> 01:06:08,600
Speaker 1: is there a song where you think people might.

1177
01:06:08,840 --> 01:06:11,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a just some new Chromebin.

1178
01:06:12,040 --> 01:06:15,360
Speaker 1: I love Krumbin, I love the vibes. I like being

1179
01:06:15,440 --> 01:06:19,160
Speaker 1: dreamy out there. They're a great, great band. They have

1180
01:06:19,200 --> 01:06:22,520
Speaker 1: a new track called May ninth that's out that came out.

1181
01:06:22,560 --> 01:06:24,960
Speaker 3: Just this year. So check this out. This is May

1182
01:06:25,040 --> 01:06:26,080
Speaker 3: ninth from Chromebin.

1183
01:06:26,320 --> 01:06:28,320
Speaker 1: May the ninth be with you and all right, you

1184
01:06:28,360 --> 01:06:30,240
Speaker 1: will link off to that in the footnotes. The Daily's

1185
01:06:30,280 --> 01:06:32,520
Speaker 1: like as a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from

1186
01:06:32,520 --> 01:06:35,000
Speaker 1: My Heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio Wrap, Apple podcast, or

1187
01:06:35,000 --> 01:06:37,800
Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows. That is gonna

1188
01:06:37,800 --> 01:06:40,280
Speaker 1: do it for us this morning, back this afternoon to

1189
01:06:40,360 --> 01:06:41,840
Speaker 1: tell you what is trending and we will talk to

1190
01:06:41,840 --> 01:06:44,120
Speaker 1: you about fight by