Speaker 1: Welcome to Ruthie's Table four, a production of iHeartRadio and
Speaker 1: Adamized Studios.
Speaker 2: Some weeks ago, Ian Wright and his beautiful family were
Speaker 2: sitting here in the River Cafe garden celebrating Nancy, his
Speaker 2: wife's birthday. Ruthie the Waiter said to me, please go
Speaker 2: and ask him to do a podcast, especially for all
Speaker 2: of us. We know he loves to eat, but we
Speaker 2: want to know more about him. He is our hero.
Speaker 2: Ian does a lot that I could never dream of achieving,
Speaker 2: for instance, kicking footballs into nets. But we do share
Speaker 2: a lot as well, concern for healthy eating for children,
Speaker 2: advocacy for social justice, a more fair society, and an
Speaker 2: end to racial discrimination. Today on Table four, we're going
Speaker 2: to get to know each other better, discussing all this
Speaker 2: and more, including having delicious lunches with our family. Thank
Speaker 2: you so much for doing this, and you're going to
Speaker 2: stay for lunch?
Speaker 3: Yes, yesky, deep fried zucchini flowers Okay, twelve male zucchini flowers,
Speaker 3: sunflower oil for deep frying, two hundred and twenty five
Speaker 3: grams plain flour, four tablespoons extra virgin olive oil, four
Speaker 3: hundred millimeters of warm water sea salt. Freshly ground black pepper,
Speaker 3: four large egg white. For batter, you have to sive
Speaker 3: the flour in large bowl, pour the olive oil into
Speaker 3: a well in the center, and slowly stir with a
Speaker 3: wide spoon to combine the flour into the OIDs.
Speaker 4: See.
Speaker 3: These are the kind of things where because I'm not
Speaker 3: a great cook that I'm nervous about this. You had
Speaker 3: a little warm water until the batter is the consistency
Speaker 3: of double cream. Season and let it stand for at
Speaker 3: least two hours. Eat the sunflow oil to one hundred
Speaker 3: and eighty CENTI grade.
Speaker 4: That's right. Wow.
Speaker 3: Just before cooking, beat the egg white until stiff and
Speaker 3: fold into the batter.
Speaker 4: Yeah. And I was speaking to Louis.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, he was telling me about how much he
Speaker 3: has to beat the egg whites up. So then when
Speaker 3: you know that they've don't you can turn it around
Speaker 3: and then they don't fall out, which I thought.
Speaker 4: Was pretty cool. So over your head, yes, and it
Speaker 4: doesn't fall out.
Speaker 2: Cool.
Speaker 4: Hi, I'm Louis.
Speaker 5: I'm a chef at the River Cafe, and today we're
Speaker 5: going to be making deep fried zucchini flowers with Ian Wright.
Speaker 4: Nice one look forward to it.
Speaker 5: So basically, what we've done is we've made a batter
Speaker 5: with zero zero flower olive oil and some like ice
Speaker 5: cold water, and then we'll fold through some whipped up
Speaker 5: egg whites. Yes that you want to whip them till
Speaker 5: they're you know, stay if you can hold a ball
Speaker 5: ups up above your head and they won't fall out,
Speaker 5: and that really helps her like puff up the batter
Speaker 5: and like makes them go. Helps with like the crispyness.
Speaker 5: We get these amazing zucchini flowers in from from Italy.
Speaker 5: They're really fresh, vibrant. Yeah, these locks off of the
Speaker 5: you know, the cross within the within the last day
Speaker 5: or two and yeah, and we'll unky's in the batter,
Speaker 5: fry them for a minute at one hundred and ninety
Speaker 5: degrees and then they're just really delicious with a big
Speaker 5: punch of salt and a wedge of lemon.
Speaker 3: When I first saw them, I was like, what are
Speaker 3: those about? Yeah, and then you taste them, they almost
Speaker 3: like they kind of almost melt in your mouth like dissolve.
Speaker 4: You know, They're very easy to continue just to eat
Speaker 4: in them.
Speaker 2: It only makes yourcuini flowers. When we're we're in literaly
Speaker 2: because you get them, we go and pick them from
Speaker 2: the garden, right, and then we fry.
Speaker 4: Them, and it's so beautiful.
Speaker 2: One, it's so beautiful, and I think it's what children
Speaker 2: really love to do, because ultimately it sounds perhaps more
Speaker 2: complicated than it is, because basically what you're doing is
Speaker 2: you're making batter of folding the egg whites into that,
Speaker 2: and then you have the flowers. You dip them in
Speaker 2: and I like very little batter on them because the
Speaker 2: flower that's so delicate. And then I don't know what
Speaker 2: one hundred and eighty degrees is when I'm frying oil.
Speaker 2: So what you do is you just heat it for
Speaker 2: a long time and then when you put the flour in,
Speaker 2: it sizzles, and if it doesn't sizzle, it's probably not already.
Speaker 2: But so it does look like I have to probably
Speaker 2: write a new cook so I'm prepared to do that.
Speaker 2: But tell me about your because you do love to
Speaker 2: eat out. Yes, I see you here and you always
Speaker 2: seem so happy. Did you eat out as a child.
Speaker 3: No, This is probably why I love eating out so much.
Speaker 3: I didn't actually start eating out until obviously, I think
Speaker 3: I'm probably twenty one. Yeah, I didn't have a lot
Speaker 3: of experiences of going to restaurants. And even when I
Speaker 3: started doing that, I only I started eating past the
Speaker 3: very late in my life. My mum never there wasn't
Speaker 3: a lot of variety. There's a lot of West Indians
Speaker 3: stew chicken. It was curry, golt, mutton, tripe, pigs, trotter's oxtail,
Speaker 3: white rice, rice with peas.
Speaker 4: Boiled dumplings.
Speaker 3: So it was that kind of food all the way
Speaker 3: up until that point. And I remember when I started
Speaker 3: playing football in Crystal Palace, I used to get very
Speaker 3: nervous about going to like we used to have to
Speaker 3: go to hotels. You just have to go to restaurants
Speaker 3: and communal eat all of us together. And I was
Speaker 3: very insecure about it because I did no I didn't
Speaker 3: know foods.
Speaker 4: So and then we.
Speaker 3: Had older players who were really they were quite mean.
Speaker 3: Let's say things like, you know, you know you've got
Speaker 3: duffin wires on there, you know you've got sour tae potatoes,
Speaker 3: And they'd say things like do you know you don't
Speaker 3: even have to spell duffing wair?
Speaker 4: You know what I mean?
Speaker 3: Do you know what potatoes ares? Can you afford steak?
Speaker 3: So what I would do is I would I would
Speaker 3: end up then getting my mum to make me something.
Speaker 3: I'd go down so the boss would see me, and
Speaker 3: then I'd say for a fire, and then I'd leave
Speaker 3: and get my food warmed up by the people in
Speaker 3: the kitchen, and I'd eat in my in my hotel room.
Speaker 3: And that's what we used to do when we was younger.
Speaker 3: We used to all eat either in the bedroom or
Speaker 3: in the living room in front of television or stuff
Speaker 3: like that.
Speaker 4: So I was more comfortable doing that.
Speaker 3: But my problem was insecurity about ordering the food.
Speaker 2: So you know, it's intimidated.
Speaker 3: It was, and it was intimating to the point where
Speaker 3: the manager I've done it a few a few times,
Speaker 3: about three or four times, you didn't see me at dinner.
Speaker 3: I remember in the morning he said, where are you?
Speaker 3: I'm not seeing you at the dinner. That's how I
Speaker 3: get together. And then I explained to him why, and
Speaker 3: then he kind of sorted that out for me.
Speaker 4: He had a word with them. You know.
Speaker 3: Obviously, you know it didn't help because obviously when people, yeah,
Speaker 3: it was, it was, it didn't help. But then I
Speaker 3: just I just blasted through it. And so offer the
Speaker 3: back of that, yeah, you know, you start to because
Speaker 3: you get into a situation where you can go to
Speaker 3: nice restaurants, and so when I love.
Speaker 2: It, so when you talk about being excellent at your sport,
Speaker 2: being able to do what you do so well, and
Speaker 2: that you're on a team, and then going to a
Speaker 2: meal time was painful, And it was painful because you
Speaker 2: were made to feel unable to feel in theory.
Speaker 3: To be honest, if I was about I was twenty one.
Speaker 3: In fact, I just turned twenty two when I joined
Speaker 3: Crystal Palace, so it was very late for me. A
Speaker 3: lot of my experiences started to come as learning on
Speaker 3: the job, about mixing with people, different people, worldly people,
Speaker 3: you know, know it, you know, even just the knife
Speaker 3: and forks from you know, outside in you know, knowing
Speaker 3: what to do.
Speaker 4: You know, you sit there and you're nervous.
Speaker 3: And so those were the kind of intimidating things about
Speaker 3: going to a restaurant or eating with people that used
Speaker 3: to really frighten me because I never we ate on
Speaker 3: our laps literally all the way through.
Speaker 4: And it's obviously was.
Speaker 2: Your mother working. Was there a table where you could sit.
Speaker 3: No, the kitchen wasn't big enough for a table for
Speaker 3: the four of us, So it was it was my mom,
Speaker 3: my stepdad, my older brother, me and my sister. So
Speaker 3: you know, there wasn't enough space for all of us
Speaker 3: to sit and have that dinner and have that chat.
Speaker 3: We never done that, you know, that's something that's happened
Speaker 3: to me later in my life.
Speaker 2: And your mother you were describing that the food that
Speaker 2: probably cook quite a lot of effort to cook. So
Speaker 2: would she cook that all day? Why would she have
Speaker 2: a job.
Speaker 3: No, no, no, no, she didn't work, and she didn't work,
Speaker 3: but she did cook the food obviously from the morning.
Speaker 3: The thing is, we didn't eat a lot of food.
Speaker 3: You know, I didn't eat like breakfast, lug I could skip.
Speaker 2: There was no problem was that because you couldn't afford
Speaker 2: it would.
Speaker 3: Have been there, but like I wasn't used to having it,
Speaker 3: you know, and we could literally go up and you know,
Speaker 3: you can have cereal if you want, or for lunch.
Speaker 3: You know, you can have it if you want. But
Speaker 3: I found that probably because I was out playing football
Speaker 3: all day or doing so that all day. It didn't
Speaker 3: bother me to eat breakfast, eat lunch. But the dinner
Speaker 3: was something that was always there, and it was very
Speaker 3: repetitious of everything that we always have. You know, we
Speaker 3: had rice, some peas and chicken on a Sunday. You
Speaker 3: had soup on a Saturday, mutton curried mutton and stuff
Speaker 3: like that, white rice, rice and peas, and that is
Speaker 3: the diet all the way. For I didn't start eating
Speaker 3: pasta till I was like twenty one, because when I
Speaker 3: was at school, you used to see little pasta bits
Speaker 3: that they used to have in school, like used to
Speaker 3: draw patterns around them for Zilly and Penny and all
Speaker 3: that sort of stuff, And so I didn't see that
Speaker 3: as something that we should be eating. You'd go to
Speaker 3: some people's houses and their parents would make macaroni cheese
Speaker 3: with the sunday rice and peas, but my mum never
Speaker 3: made that. So I wasn't very good with anything that
Speaker 3: my mom didn't make. She didn't make a lot of
Speaker 3: getables for us. There was we used to get some
Speaker 3: kalalou when we was younger, West Indian klalou like a
Speaker 3: green cabbage thing. But I didn't eat a lot of
Speaker 3: stuff because school dinners for me were a nightmare.
Speaker 4: Why were they there? Was?
Speaker 3: It was so blind, it was so so plain, and
Speaker 3: everything that my mom, my mom cooked with a lot
Speaker 3: of seasoning. So this is why, you know, as time
Speaker 3: went by, even when I'm sure we'll get onto it,
Speaker 3: when with Arsenal and Arson Venger, eating bland.
Speaker 4: Food is very very difficult for me.
Speaker 3: It has to be seasoned or some form of taste,
Speaker 3: you know, I need to have that. So you know,
Speaker 3: that is something that my mum done a lot. And
Speaker 3: so anyway I went to eat, if it wasn't seasoned properly,
Speaker 3: I could easily not eat.
Speaker 2: Did you qualify for free school lunches?
Speaker 3: Yes, we did, which was obviously again it had its
Speaker 3: own drawbacks, but I was I was never bothered about
Speaker 3: being teased for that, and you were that, yeah, you
Speaker 3: tease that because one of the things I always used
Speaker 3: to wonder what they why they did it was you
Speaker 3: had to cue up in a different line, you know,
Speaker 3: And it was always you know, you get people who
Speaker 3: you know, kids, the kids, aren't they just tease you
Speaker 3: and stuff like that. And what was what I used
Speaker 3: to get a lot of teasing for because obviously I
Speaker 3: was quite good at the football at the time, so
Speaker 3: they find find something that they could use against me
Speaker 3: to to try and make me feel bad and insecure.
Speaker 3: And it used to work. So some of the times
Speaker 3: I used to really I used to wait and wait
Speaker 3: and wait, and then I'd go and do it. And
Speaker 3: then if people tease you just get on with.
Speaker 4: It, you know.
Speaker 2: Was an inner city school.
Speaker 4: I went to a school called Samuel Peeps in Brookolyn.
Speaker 3: I love the school even though you had such yeah,
Speaker 3: because like you know my friends, you know, and I.
Speaker 2: Could play football if you have a skill.
Speaker 3: Because yeah, because my problem was when I was younger,
Speaker 3: was my attention spanning the classroom wasn't very good at all.
Speaker 3: And when I couldn't grasp what they were doing it,
Speaker 3: I'd get a bit disruptive.
Speaker 2: And this is you know, that was much more recognized.
Speaker 3: But then what they used to do, they say, if
Speaker 3: you don't start paying at mentioned moreis and you know,
Speaker 3: you're not going to be able to play football that way. Yeah,
Speaker 3: And so that was another massive worry for me, because
Speaker 3: it wasn't because I was just being disruptive for being disruptive,
Speaker 3: It's just I couldn't grasp lesson as quickly as other people.
Speaker 4: So you know, now I understand it more.
Speaker 3: But like, yeah, the food again, going back, one of
Speaker 3: the things I did love about school was desserts and
Speaker 3: after us because we never had anything like that. You
Speaker 3: might have had digestive biscuits when we were younger, and
Speaker 3: chocolate biscuits every now and then, but it wasn't very
Speaker 3: We didn't have them a lot. You know, you go
Speaker 3: to your friend's house and they would have all sorts
Speaker 3: of like stuff in their larder and their kitchen, but
Speaker 3: we never had that. So the school dessert, like school puddings,
Speaker 3: was amazing, you know, so apple pie and custard, you know,
Speaker 3: because I didn't eat custard for a while because obviously
Speaker 3: I didn't have it home, so I didn't like that.
Speaker 3: So I used to always have the sponge on its own.
Speaker 3: I used to have the apple bound it so and
Speaker 3: then you'd have the sponge with the jam and the
Speaker 3: coconut on the top of it, you know, and apple crumble. Honestly,
Speaker 3: I used to look so forward to it. And I
Speaker 3: remember I used to have a friend who used to
Speaker 3: give me all these sponges because he didn't like sponge.
Speaker 3: And then there was a time I used to give
Speaker 3: him all the apple pies and all that that kind
Speaker 3: of pace you on.
Speaker 4: And then I remember one day I.
Speaker 3: Just said to him, I'm just going to taste it
Speaker 3: because I never tasted it, you know, And then I
Speaker 3: tasted it with the cusses, and I just I said,
Speaker 3: I can't give it to you.
Speaker 2: Did your mother grow up in poverty?
Speaker 3: Yeah, she could in Jamaica. It's very tough and grew
Speaker 3: up with like seven eight siblings. You know, it's quite tough.
Speaker 3: She had to me and she had to move out
Speaker 3: and go and live with my aunts who didn't treat
Speaker 3: her very well. And that was one of the things
Speaker 3: as well. I didn't get to to really find out
Speaker 3: the deep rooted problems with my mom's, with my mom's
Speaker 3: like mental health and everything, what she went through, because
Speaker 3: you'd be sitting down just watching the television and then
Speaker 3: you know, my mum would just burst out cry. She
Speaker 3: just you just see tears just coming down her face.
Speaker 3: But as time went by, obviously, you know, people always
Speaker 3: talk about my stuff, my Desert Island disc and I
Speaker 3: tried to be as candid as I possibly could, but
Speaker 3: I just remember how she used to be. She was
Speaker 3: so she was so sad inside and kind of took
Speaker 3: it out on me and my brothers and sisters and that.
Speaker 3: But like never ever spoke about what happened to her,
Speaker 3: to the point where some of the time she spoke
Speaker 3: to me about her aunt and my cousin Ali Alvin.
Speaker 3: Al Vanni's name was yeah, and his mum was, she's
Speaker 3: really nasty to my mom.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 3: When she used to tell the stories, she burst into
Speaker 3: tears talking about that sort of stuff.
Speaker 2: So that kind of abusively scars it, does, you know.
Speaker 2: And I think that was maybe the way she had
Speaker 2: trouble expressing her love because you spoke about you know,
Speaker 2: but the.
Speaker 4: Thing of it is ruf.
Speaker 3: She always made sure there was a meal on there
Speaker 3: for us, you know, we you know, we didn't have
Speaker 3: like the greatest closing, but the clothes are clean.
Speaker 4: Everything was nice, you know, ours was presented. Everything was nice.
Speaker 3: But you know, she she just didn't have much.
Speaker 2: You talk about your Jamaican family, your mother coming from Jamaica,
Speaker 2: leaving her family in Jamaica or did they come with her?
Speaker 2: They left? So she left, she left.
Speaker 3: How old was she She probably was when she came out.
Speaker 3: She came up in the Windrush generation, so she came
Speaker 3: here in I think it's fifty eight, you know, so,
Speaker 3: and she came on her own.
Speaker 4: How old was she My mum was born nineteen thirty three.
Speaker 3: In fact, she might have been born earlier than thirty
Speaker 3: three then because when she died she was ninety four.
Speaker 3: But like she came in that generation, you know, and
Speaker 3: she came and stayed with friends and it just went
Speaker 3: from there. So she had no family, not here, just
Speaker 3: like friends and acquaintances. There was a couple of long
Speaker 3: distance cousins who were here as well that came in
Speaker 3: and around the same time, and so they met up.
Speaker 3: So this is why I grew up in and around
Speaker 3: Broccoli Lewis and Deptford, New Cross, all that side.
Speaker 4: That's where everybody everybody.
Speaker 2: Did you ever go back to Jamaica? Have you been back?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 3: I used to go a lot when I was at
Speaker 3: Crystal Palace in eighty five. You know when I started
Speaker 3: when I was able to afford to do that, because
Speaker 3: the first time I went on on an airplane was
Speaker 3: with Crystal Palace. You know, I was twenty, I was
Speaker 3: just turned twenty two and we act finally we went
Speaker 3: to Qatar. It was amazing, did you Yeah, it was unbelievable.
Speaker 3: But we flew over the Alps and that, and it
Speaker 3: was like obviously the first time I was on a plane,
Speaker 3: I just couldn't believe it. I was really afraid yet
Speaker 3: because most of the trip I was doing how does
Speaker 3: this stay up?
Speaker 4: Stay up here?
Speaker 2: I still think that.
Speaker 3: You know, And I remember, like again, like we had
Speaker 3: those those the older guys who obviously they.
Speaker 4: Knew, you know, this is first time.
Speaker 3: All this experiences was new to me, and like, I
Speaker 3: think back on these experiences and they were amazing, but
Speaker 3: it's it's always tinged with their nastiness because I remember
Speaker 3: one of the things that they said to me, which
Speaker 3: I'll never forget, was you have to be You're most
Speaker 3: afraid when you're on a plane, the thirty seconds before
Speaker 3: you take off and the thirty seconds before you land.
Speaker 3: And to this day, I still have anxiety about that.
Speaker 2: Can I ask you if when you were started out
Speaker 2: was the bullying that was it? Racist players?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 3: There was me, Tony Finnigan, Andy Gray, Henry Houghton was
Speaker 3: there at the time as well. But yeah, the racing
Speaker 3: was pretty bad. It was very it was accepted. It
Speaker 3: was nowhere near what it's like now.
Speaker 2: The cruelty was from the white players.
Speaker 3: It was from the white players and the older players,
Speaker 3: you know, Obviously the younger guys who were in and
Speaker 3: around the same age as us sympathizes with us. They
Speaker 3: didn't like it, but it wasn't a time where you
Speaker 3: could stand up to that kind of that kind of
Speaker 3: presence in the dressing room because those guys that would
Speaker 3: have been eighty five, between eighty five and you know,
Speaker 3: eighty five.
Speaker 2: Until Yeah, has it changed.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's changed a lot, because now what's happened is
Speaker 3: that there's allies. Yeah, you know, black people don't don't
Speaker 3: want racism. You know, if it was up to black
Speaker 3: people for racism to stop, it wouldn't be there, you know.
Speaker 3: But what you have to understand is is that without
Speaker 3: white people, white white allies, you're not going to shift
Speaker 3: that you're not going to make a move on the dial.
Speaker 3: And what's happening now is that there are more allies,
Speaker 3: there are more people who speak out, There are more
Speaker 3: people that now are more than willing to put themselves
Speaker 3: to put their heads above the parapet and say things
Speaker 3: that you could never see.
Speaker 2: One of the great great memories, and I'm much older
Speaker 2: than you, but one of the really defining memories of
Speaker 2: my life was watching the Olympic Games in Mexico when
Speaker 2: the Three ran, and that taught me. I mean, my
Speaker 2: parents are already you know, they went south, you know,
Speaker 2: the civil rights My brother was arrested in Mississippi. We
Speaker 2: were very liberal thinking family, but seeing the power of
Speaker 2: that solute and their lives were rude, absolutely rue. They
Speaker 2: never ran again.
Speaker 3: Never ran again when they went back, like ostracized back
Speaker 3: in America. You know, it was it was a sad
Speaker 3: state of affairs, but like it was a tragedy really,
Speaker 3: but when you look at what it's done and that
Speaker 3: symbol and how powerful that symbol is. You know, you
Speaker 3: look at the guys now they're taking the knee, the
Speaker 3: girls as well, where they're playing, they're.
Speaker 4: Taking the knee.
Speaker 3: And people say, well, it's it's run its course, it
Speaker 3: doesn't it's got no it's got no effect. People are
Speaker 3: not taking it. What has when you talk about racism,
Speaker 3: you know what has had an effect and you have
Speaker 3: to look at and you have to say you have
Speaker 3: to let people still know that you will stand against it.
Speaker 3: And this is what's happening.
Speaker 4: Now.
Speaker 3: You've got kids at their little football matches, they will
Speaker 3: take the knee. They'll do it on their little football
Speaker 3: pictures because they are aware of.
Speaker 2: It, and that changes.
Speaker 4: That is how it changes.
Speaker 3: You know, education is the way because if someone's ignorant
Speaker 3: to something, they're going to be they're going to be
Speaker 3: against it. When you teach them what's going on and
Speaker 3: they understand it, you can no longer be ignorant to it.
Speaker 3: You know, Racism is ignorance. If you reach people, teach people,
Speaker 3: they'll lose their ignorance.
Speaker 2: When did you think it really started changing? Was it
Speaker 2: when when they were realized that players were really.
Speaker 3: I think I think when it really caught hold of
Speaker 3: the world and people really started to say, well, well
Speaker 3: enough is enough. Obviously Colin Capane taking the knee for
Speaker 3: injustice and inequality, but like George Floyd, the death of
Speaker 3: George Floyd really brought it to people's attention that none
Speaker 3: come on now, you know, come on.
Speaker 2: Only places that you wouldn't.
Speaker 3: Play in respects of There's no way that I wouldn't
Speaker 3: play because I feel that again, you have to play.
Speaker 3: You know, I've been in stadiums where people have targeted you.
Speaker 3: I've watched my son being targeted at my friends. It's
Speaker 3: happened to me in stadiums in England and abroad, and
Speaker 3: there's no way I wouldn't play. But I must say
Speaker 3: that if I was playing now and it happened like
Speaker 3: we're seeing it happen now, they should walk off. But
Speaker 3: you can't walk off yourself. Your team has to walk
Speaker 3: off that happen. I think that's going to happen at
Speaker 3: some stage. I think that's going to happen pretty soon.
Speaker 3: It's going to happen sooner rather than late, because I
Speaker 3: feel like I say, the allies and the guys, great people,
Speaker 3: Harry Kane, you know, Anderson, all these guys, Kevin de Bruyner,
Speaker 3: you know, great football as great white players who they
Speaker 3: won't take that and they will stand in solidarity with
Speaker 3: their teammates, and that is going to happen sooner rather
Speaker 3: than later. Because if I was playing now, I would
Speaker 3: continue to take the knee. And if I got racially
Speaker 3: abused on a football pitch, whether it was abroad or here,
Speaker 3: I would hope that my teammates would walk off with
Speaker 3: me because my character and my personality. I would do
Speaker 3: that now because the power is there to do it.
Speaker 3: But back in the day it wasn't there, and you'd
Speaker 3: you know what it's like I saw just recently there's
Speaker 3: a guy playing for Real Madrid who was getting like
Speaker 3: vilified racially abused vinities junior at Real Madrid, and you
Speaker 3: could see the pain he was going through to the
Speaker 3: point he just stood there and the tears just started
Speaker 3: to come down his face because he was being racially abused.
Speaker 3: He was the one that got sent off after being
Speaker 3: racially abused in the crowd or abusing him called monkey
Speaker 3: chants and stuff. And what I saw with him when
Speaker 3: he stood there and the tears coming down is something
Speaker 3: that I've I've had to deal with myself because you're
Speaker 3: you're helpless, you feel humiliated, and like I said, there's
Speaker 3: nothing you can do. And so that feeling is something
Speaker 3: that you know, you don't want people to have to
Speaker 3: to have to go through, especially in this time, at
Speaker 3: any time, but especially in these times when we could
Speaker 3: do something.
Speaker 2: There was a very long time ago there was a presented,
Speaker 2: you know, Michael Parkinson, Yes, and you've probably seen it
Speaker 2: on YouTube, but there was an interview between him, Mohammad
Speaker 2: now with David Beckham and George Best. Okay, George Best
Speaker 2: was comparing or actually David Beckham very respectfully said I'm
Speaker 2: not going to talk on this couch. I want you know,
Speaker 2: George Best, he should, He's the person we want to
Speaker 2: listen to. And what he said was, you know, he
Speaker 2: came from poverty or you know, a very very unprotected family.
Speaker 2: And he said there was no safety net for being famous.
Speaker 2: There was no safety net for being he was certain place. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and that now there is a safety net for players,
Speaker 2: you know of the big teams or who become celebrities
Speaker 2: and that they're taking care of they looked after. And
Speaker 2: I think what you're saying is there may be now
Speaker 2: they may have a safety net, but it might not
Speaker 2: include racism.
Speaker 3: No, but it will because you have to have that
Speaker 3: belief because there's enough people out there fighting for it.
Speaker 3: You know, It's totally different when you look at what
Speaker 3: George Best went through adulation, Beckham, we're looking at someone
Speaker 3: now who.
Speaker 4: Can Jack Greedish.
Speaker 3: It's going through the same You're just hoping that you know,
Speaker 3: we saw what Gaza went through and how it kind
Speaker 3: of like what the effects it had on Gaza. But
Speaker 3: when you're getting that kind of adulation, that kind of love,
Speaker 3: that can affect you in a certain way. I think
Speaker 3: David Beckham obviously you know, he's dealt with it very
Speaker 3: very well, unbelievably unfortunately, you know, Gaza I didn't deal
Speaker 3: with it so well. George Best was the first, like
Speaker 3: the fifth bet or he didn't. He was, he was
Speaker 3: paving the way.
Speaker 2: You know, we were going to talk about Muhammad Ali. Well,
Speaker 2: I you were going to and I asked you and
Speaker 2: you know, again another hero.
Speaker 4: Not the thing with Ma'amad Ali. I remember when I
Speaker 4: was younger.
Speaker 3: It was the interview he had and I even saw
Speaker 3: it again the other day with Michael Parkinson and how
Speaker 3: you know, listening to somebody that everybody loved white people,
Speaker 3: everybody loved him the greatest, and listen to how he
Speaker 3: navigated that interview with Michael Parkinson and twisted him with intelligence.
Speaker 3: And I remember one of the things that stuck out
Speaker 3: in my mind was in my memory, sorry, was him saying, listen,
Speaker 3: I can't you can't beat me mentally and you can't
Speaker 3: beat me physically. And I remember, yeah, I remember listening
Speaker 3: to that. But like, what was good about it was
Speaker 3: it made me realize, you know, to see a very
Speaker 3: intelligent black great man there and obviously very learned black
Speaker 3: and you know that made you think I want to
Speaker 3: be like that. I want to be able to hold
Speaker 3: that conversation and put that back on you so as
Speaker 3: then we can have the conversation where we can move
Speaker 3: on and go to a better place. And that's what
Speaker 3: it was he did, because the questions that he was asking,
Speaker 3: it was almost like he was he was trying to
Speaker 3: test and belittle and that, and he was just too
Speaker 3: smart for that. And that is why, you know, I
Speaker 3: remember meeting him one time in Brixton and he came
Speaker 3: over and he kissed my hand and I kissed his
Speaker 3: hand and he kissed my hand back, and it was
Speaker 3: when he's just getting to the place where he's just
Speaker 3: a little bit slow, and it was a moment like,
Speaker 3: I don't know, touch me deep emotionally, what's that there?
Speaker 5: They are grilled marinated peppers, which are They're one of
Speaker 5: my favorite things that I've just really starting to do,
Speaker 5: knowing the menu every day now. So you blacken them
Speaker 5: off on the grill, steam them with a you know,
Speaker 5: let over, and heel them back, and then you them
Speaker 5: with loads of vinegar and.
Speaker 4: Is that just ready to go? Now? Ready? We might
Speaker 4: we might.
Speaker 5: Definitely give you a Harry no pressure, thankfully, So.
Speaker 2: When you were growing up and you were in school
Speaker 2: and you were having school food and you were having difficulties,
Speaker 2: did you turn to any kind of food that would
Speaker 2: make you feel what comfortable.
Speaker 3: I'll tell you what I did, absolutely adore is sometimes
Speaker 3: you might go around to your friend's house on a Sunday,
Speaker 3: maybe after football, and we didn't have roast, because like
Speaker 3: I say, we had we had the rice and peas
Speaker 3: and chicken every Sunday without fail, to the point where
Speaker 3: I remember smelling the peas in the morning and just
Speaker 3: burst into tears because I.
Speaker 4: Get the same thing.
Speaker 3: That's why I kind of went off kidney beans for many,
Speaker 3: many years, because I just I just didn't like the
Speaker 3: size of them, I didn't like the color of I
Speaker 3: just I just ate them too much, to the point
Speaker 3: I used to separate them from the rice. When we
Speaker 3: were younger, I remember going to my friend's house, my
Speaker 3: white friend, Johnny's house, and he had Yorkshire pudding. I
Speaker 3: never tasted anything so nice in my life. I couldn't
Speaker 3: believe it. That was something that I craved. And I
Speaker 3: remember I used to say to my mum, can we
Speaker 3: have YORKSI put and came expreience you'd never get it,
Speaker 3: we'd never have it, you know. So obviously when I
Speaker 3: got older, you get to a point, especially once I
Speaker 3: was able to afford it and stuff like that, because,
Speaker 3: like I say, get into twenty twenty one, I was
Speaker 3: still eating the same stuff, doing the same things.
Speaker 4: But then when you start.
Speaker 3: To kind of branch out with your with the world
Speaker 3: that I'm now traveling with the football club and You're
Speaker 3: going to different places, different culture, you start to eat
Speaker 3: different things. So now you know, I will try everything
Speaker 3: in like the same with NaNs, I have to try
Speaker 3: something new.
Speaker 2: One of the things of doing these podcasts and he's
Speaker 2: talking with people, does that many of them do measure
Speaker 2: success through their ability to have choice of food. So
Speaker 2: they can go to a restaurant, can order a good
Speaker 2: glass of wine, they can order and it's quite gratifying
Speaker 2: to see that no one is entitled. You know, that
Speaker 2: people did not grow. Sam Taylor Wood and Sam Taylor
Speaker 2: Johnson now describes exactly like you being in a different
Speaker 2: queue for school food, which we know shockingly still goes
Speaker 2: on today. I don't know if they put them in,
Speaker 2: you know, with the separate lines, but the qualifications to
Speaker 2: have food at the moment. We're working with a food
Speaker 2: group and the aim with Jamie Oliver is to give
Speaker 2: children more nutritious food at lunch because we know they're
Speaker 2: not going to have dinner. Yes, And what state of
Speaker 2: society is that when you have to give children better
Speaker 2: food at lunchtime because that's the only meal of the day.
Speaker 3: Well, this is why you know, I mentioned like emins
Speaker 3: and I've got a campaign with minscent. The reason I
Speaker 3: like them so much is because they're making it very
Speaker 3: easy for people to know what's healthy.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 3: They they have an eat well flower sticker. You can
Speaker 3: go into the shop, you see that stick and you
Speaker 3: know that that is an healthy option for you. And
Speaker 3: so that's why you know, I mean I kicked onto
Speaker 3: that because I didn't even realize when I was younger,
Speaker 3: eating healthy for me was not even I was eating
Speaker 3: because you're hungry and you're eating to satisfy that hunger
Speaker 3: to be full.
Speaker 4: But now, like I say, with the.
Speaker 3: Options, you can go there and you can you can
Speaker 3: pick out something that is healthy because it's got the
Speaker 3: flower on it. You don't need to read through because
Speaker 3: it's you know, and that is another thing. You know,
Speaker 3: Nancy went through that my wife Nancy went through all that.
Speaker 3: Excuse me why she went through that phase where you know,
Speaker 3: I hate going shopping in the end of her because
Speaker 3: like she's reading everything, you know, And I think that's
Speaker 3: one of one of the things I believe that they
Speaker 3: should do all of the big super markets is they
Speaker 3: should make it easier for people.
Speaker 2: That's alwaysn't that they don't want you to see him exactly,
Speaker 2: you know, something that it was.
Speaker 3: Just something we have to we have to everybody. You
Speaker 3: have to make sure that we were shining a light
Speaker 3: on that because we're getting the ab the obasicity rates
Speaker 3: what they're talking about. But by twenty thirty are going
Speaker 3: to be where apparently in England we're going to be
Speaker 3: like the most obese in Europe. We need to do
Speaker 3: something about it.
Speaker 2: And obesity as very often related to poverty. It's not
Speaker 2: as you don't see if you don't walk it down
Speaker 2: in Belgravi, you don't see people who are overweight. If
Speaker 2: you go into a poorer section, Yeah you see people,
Speaker 2: you do. And that's because fast food is which is cheaper,
Speaker 2: has huge calories, you know, they pulk it up. So
Speaker 2: I think it's it's very important. Would you tell me
Speaker 2: about Arsen Venger.
Speaker 4: Wow.
Speaker 3: The thing with him, Ruphi is that he was can
Speaker 3: I say a visionary?
Speaker 4: A visionary in the way he came and changed the diet.
Speaker 3: Are we talking about nineteen ninety six, ninety five ninety
Speaker 3: six when he got there, and you know, food for
Speaker 3: Arsen Vanger was fuel to perform. He came in and
Speaker 3: he changed the diet from steak and chips and anything
Speaker 3: you wanted to proper food, like everything that is good
Speaker 3: for you. But the thing what it was with all
Speaker 3: the vegetables and the rice and the chicken steamed, you know,
Speaker 3: no seasoning, no salt, no salt, no seasoning, no nothing.
Speaker 3: All we could do is drink water and eat this
Speaker 3: bland food.
Speaker 2: Where was he from?
Speaker 3: It's kind of Ostrin French, it's on that border. And
Speaker 3: when he came in, it's the first time I realized
Speaker 3: that it's not about liking what you're eating. It's the
Speaker 3: fact that you have to be eating this for that
Speaker 3: slow sugar release that you need when you're performing at
Speaker 3: a level where you need your energy, and your energy
Speaker 3: has to be there constantly. This is why sweet things
Speaker 3: and certain things that to shoot you up like that
Speaker 3: during the game, you'll have to come down, because if
Speaker 3: you shoot up, you have to come down. So this
Speaker 3: is why pasta and broccoli and cabbage and carrots and
Speaker 3: all those vegetables they give you that slow sugar that
Speaker 3: burns continually so you can stay at a certain level
Speaker 3: and you can continue to perform. And it was very
Speaker 3: difficult at the start, but like when you started to
Speaker 3: see everybody doing it, and you could see and obviously
Speaker 3: we had vitamins to go alongside that. But when you
Speaker 3: saw everybody starting to do in it and enjoying it,
Speaker 3: then they're taking it into their home lives.
Speaker 4: They do the same at home.
Speaker 3: Then all of a sudden, you're realizing this is for
Speaker 3: us to perform to the best of our ability, to
Speaker 3: the point where when you go to restaurants you'd almost
Speaker 3: feel guilty to have anything that wasn't going to enhance you,
Speaker 3: you know, as some vengers. He had no problems after
Speaker 3: the game for you to have a sugar rush like
Speaker 3: a donut or something. But then Monday is that you've
Speaker 3: got to be back on that.
Speaker 2: Tell me about a day when you know that you're
Speaker 2: going to have a very very important game and you
Speaker 2: wake up, you open your eyes.
Speaker 3: First you wake up, and there's always water because with
Speaker 3: arsen Venger, you had to have water with you all
Speaker 3: the time, right. You had to have very low fat milk,
Speaker 3: you know, it's just very skimmed milk. You could have cereal,
Speaker 3: you could have yogurt, you know. So I'd have something
Speaker 3: like that, you know, no juices, nothing, nothing, sugar, nothing sugary,
Speaker 3: nothing on match day. So I'd eat something like that,
Speaker 3: some very light skimmed milk, maybe some no sugar on rice,
Speaker 3: crispies or you know, or even brand flakes something like that,
Speaker 3: and that would take me through till. Let me see,
Speaker 3: so we're probably we're playing at three o'clock, so we
Speaker 3: have to be eating by twelve.
Speaker 4: And then you know, what would we have.
Speaker 3: We'd all sit together and we'd have we'd have fish,
Speaker 3: which we'd have steak, and you'd have rice, and you'd
Speaker 3: have loads of like vegetables and water. Yeah, so you'd
Speaker 3: eat that and then that just starts to release and
Speaker 3: just go into your system. And then you're just topping
Speaker 3: that up with water.
Speaker 2: And then as three you are on the pitch and
Speaker 2: you don't do nothing except water.
Speaker 3: Water, and maybe one of those Lucas ad drinks to
Speaker 3: give you a little bit of a sugary boost or stuff.
Speaker 3: But like the main thing was to was to drink water.
Speaker 3: I can't emphasize how important it.
Speaker 2: Is to drink a lot.
Speaker 4: Of Yeah, I try, I try. I still don't drink
Speaker 4: as much as I should.
Speaker 2: Now do you lose weight when you're when you're a football.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, but you're you're lean your trim because remember
Speaker 3: you're doing all those that training, You're doing weights, you're
Speaker 3: doing the gym, You're.
Speaker 2: When do you do that every day? Every day?
Speaker 4: Every day?
Speaker 3: So when you go to training again, you have that
Speaker 3: for your breakfast and then you're obviously you train from
Speaker 3: ten thirty to maybe one o'clock two o'clock, depending on
Speaker 3: what stage of the season it's at. You train really hard,
Speaker 3: it's tough, tough, and then what happens is is that
Speaker 3: you realize that if you're not eating right, you're not
Speaker 3: taking the vitman's right. You will see that you are,
Speaker 3: you're lagging behind the guys who are doing it religiously, to.
Speaker 4: The point where again you go into a dressing.
Speaker 3: Room rufie and you know it is very competitive, very competitive,
Speaker 3: especially when you go into a dressing room where you're
Speaker 3: trying to attain and achieve. Everybody there's the margins are
Speaker 3: very small. Yeah, we'd practiced and we're trained to a
Speaker 3: level where we say, well, they better be training as
Speaker 3: hard as we are because if not, we are going
Speaker 3: to destroy them.
Speaker 4: And that is what we were striving for.
Speaker 2: And when mister Benger's influence did that reach other teams,
Speaker 2: something that everybody else what you eat was what you are.
Speaker 3: Well, what happened, Ruthie is that when we started to
Speaker 3: meet up with the guys when we went to England,
Speaker 3: you know, to select players from our team and then
Speaker 3: from Chelsea and from Liverpool and from Man United, and
Speaker 3: when you all met up, they all wanted to know
Speaker 3: what are you doing, what are you eating, what you're
Speaker 3: taking because our physio at the time was it was
Speaker 3: was our physio was the England physio as well, and
Speaker 3: Alex Ferguson was quite upset about it because he didn't
Speaker 3: like the fact that our physio knew what Man United
Speaker 3: players were eating, what Chelsea and he knew what to
Speaker 3: be able to tell some venger so that he was
Speaker 3: really upset about that. But like, yeah, they you know,
Speaker 3: you sit down around the dinner table and they'd see
Speaker 3: us choosingly picking what we want because obviously we've got
Speaker 3: our physio there, and he would make sure you eat that,
Speaker 3: you eat that, you eat that, make sure you're not
Speaker 3: eating that, this and that and you know what I mean.
Speaker 3: They would say, why don't eat this and that? We
Speaker 3: just eat this now.
Speaker 2: The day I was starting with a friend of mine
Speaker 2: who's an actor, and that there are actors who have
Speaker 2: to gain a huge amount of weight for a part
Speaker 2: or put on bulk. A friend of mine is going
Speaker 2: to be in a Marvel movie this summer and he
Speaker 2: has to eat eight thousand calories a day to bulk up.
Speaker 2: You know, but it's so scientific, you know that. It's
Speaker 2: not like you can have an ice cream Sunday, or
Speaker 2: you can have whatever you can have, but it's nutrition
Speaker 2: now has become a science. To be a doctor who
Speaker 2: doesn't depend on whether you're fat within to be a teacher,
Speaker 2: but an athlete and an actor are the two kind
Speaker 2: of careers that actually will perhaps maybe an astronaut or whatever,
Speaker 2: but that you you are dependent on actually training.
Speaker 3: Yes, profit, discipline, roof to continue to do it because
Speaker 3: you know, you see these these great actors. You do
Speaker 3: that method and they starve themselves or like you mentioned,
Speaker 3: they bolt themselves up and like the regime for that
Speaker 3: is exactly what we do for nine months, because again
Speaker 3: it's the margins of what you're trying to achieve. And
Speaker 3: you know, I mean, like you mentioned, you know they've
Speaker 3: got a bowl cup in eight thousand calories. I can't
Speaker 3: even imagine, you know, trying to eat that much, but
Speaker 3: you can imagine having to eat that much and not
Speaker 3: slipping up and not feeling one day, I can't do
Speaker 3: this today.
Speaker 2: You have to have to and tell me what you're doing. Now,
Speaker 2: tell me what is in right day?
Speaker 3: Well, it depends, like when the season's on, you know,
Speaker 3: it depends if you have to go and do much
Speaker 3: of the day up in Manch, or you have to
Speaker 3: go to Uxbridge to do the Premier League, or you
Speaker 3: have to go and do the work with the brands
Speaker 3: that I work with. You know, it's the typical days
Speaker 3: like for instance, let's say I have to go to
Speaker 3: do match of the day, so the car will come
Speaker 3: and get you at eight o'clock. You've got all your
Speaker 3: research stuff that you read on the way up in
Speaker 3: the car. Then you get there and then you watch
Speaker 3: the games and people see you on the TV at
Speaker 3: ten thirty, and then you talk about everything. What you've
Speaker 3: You've told the researchers. You want to go out there,
Speaker 3: so then you do that. But it's a whole day.
Speaker 3: And food, well, this is what I'm saying. With the food,
Speaker 3: you're able to order, order something in and recently I
Speaker 3: found a really good West Indian shop.
Speaker 4: Funny enough up there.
Speaker 3: I'll have that, or I'll have salad, some good vegetables,
Speaker 3: some nice rice and stuff like that, some fish.
Speaker 2: What about as a family, do you sit down?
Speaker 3: No, absolutely that Lance would do the food. So we
Speaker 3: probably eat in and around a six thirty ish, six
Speaker 3: thirty seven ish, and you know what I mean, By
Speaker 3: the time, it's all that way, we sit down around
Speaker 3: the table and we eating. It's something where we get
Speaker 3: to talk about what's going on, what's happening in school,
Speaker 3: what you're doing, Why are you so moody today, why
Speaker 3: are you so miserable?
Speaker 4: What's going on? You know what I mean? And I
Speaker 4: love it.
Speaker 3: I love that, Yeah, I love that that we do
Speaker 3: sit down and we eat now And I didn't realize
Speaker 3: when I was younger, how important that was. But obviously
Speaker 3: friends used to do that a lot, and you know
Speaker 3: you took it for granted that that is something that
Speaker 3: is a necessity.
Speaker 2: So you've just described a family that sits together, eats together,
Speaker 2: talks about their moods, talks about their emotions, asked questions
Speaker 2: about what they're feeling. And that comes from not a
Speaker 2: role model that you had growing up, but for something
Speaker 2: that you announce you've created yourself. And tell me how
Speaker 2: that journey is.
Speaker 3: Well, that's something that I think back about it, Rufie,
Speaker 3: and it makes me quite sad because I look at
Speaker 3: obviously my mum, my relationship, I should say, with my
Speaker 3: brothers and sisters, you know what I mean, we're if
Speaker 3: we see each other, we see each other, try and speak,
Speaker 3: you know, especially my brother Morris speaks to him a lot,
Speaker 3: not so much with my brother Nicki, and I don't
Speaker 3: speak to my sister Dion at all. You know, we
Speaker 3: haven't got no connection to be together like that. Obviously,
Speaker 3: I have to make a lot of efforts, even just
Speaker 3: for my my brother, you know what I mean, even
Speaker 3: he's got his card. The other day I said, now
Speaker 3: you know, you know I'm busy, but just just come up,
Speaker 3: come up and see us. But like, what I've learned
Speaker 3: from it is how our communicative we are now and
Speaker 3: how that would have helped us if we was younger,
Speaker 3: if the emphasis was on sitting there and speaking about stuff,
Speaker 3: I could have maybe told her about some of the
Speaker 3: rubbish that was going through in respects of school and
Speaker 3: teasing and free me. I don't know, but like now
Speaker 3: we can sit there with the girls and you're able
Speaker 3: to kind of like without them feeling like you're interrogating them.
Speaker 3: You can ease out what's going on at school. And
Speaker 3: my wife is unbelievable in respects of, you know, a
Speaker 3: personality and how she's and how she grew up always
Speaker 3: sitting together, you know, with each other. So you know
Speaker 3: now that that is something that is ingrained. Now you
Speaker 3: know it's something that we have to do that Now
Speaker 3: you know what.
Speaker 2: You're describing is something that you're doing for many many
Speaker 2: young people who listen to you, who watch you, who
Speaker 2: need your words and your social impact. As I said,
Speaker 2: for the very very beginning from people the young people
Speaker 2: who work in the restaurant. They're not easily impressed, I
Speaker 2: have to say, but they really love it when you
Speaker 2: come in when they see you and your kindness, and
Speaker 2: I think it's a kind of inspiration with them. And
Speaker 2: it goes to my next question, which is a comfort
Speaker 2: to see someone who has achieved so much and is
Speaker 2: still you know, talking two people who want to listen
Speaker 2: to them. So, if I were going to ask you
Speaker 2: as our last question before you go and have lunch,
Speaker 2: is if you have a food that you do turn to,
Speaker 2: not when you're hungry or you're tired, or you know,
Speaker 2: I want to share it with your children, but something
Speaker 2: that you personally ian want for comfort. What would you
Speaker 2: go for.
Speaker 3: At the moment with the like I mentioned naming this
Speaker 3: earlier on but they recently, especially the last I'd say
Speaker 3: eight nine months. Briefly, I'm like obsessed with fitter rolls
Speaker 3: and cream.
Speaker 4: I cannot stop.
Speaker 2: Do you like to buy the ice cream inside.
Speaker 3: And not cream inside with just just just double cream
Speaker 3: or single cream and for me to just have in
Speaker 3: the car which Nancy will hear about it now. I
Speaker 3: buy those Cabres mini rolls with the raspberry and those
Speaker 3: two at the moment, no matter how much have eaten,
Speaker 3: if somebody offered me a mini roll, I'll take it
Speaker 3: and if somebody like if if if we're having lunch
Speaker 3: in one of the girls leave, I won't leave a
Speaker 3: fitter roll on its own. It's like leaving a soldier behind.
Speaker 3: If my girls don't eat it, I'll say, you can't
Speaker 3: leave the soul. That is basically it.
Speaker 2: I will remember that. Thank you so much for coming.
Speaker 2: Thank you that's really nice. And what a great, great
Speaker 2: hour we've had. And I hope we have many more
Speaker 2: hours together. You know what, I'm going to ask you
Speaker 2: a favor? Will you take me to a football game?
Speaker 3: Absolutely, you've got to come. And you know what, it's
Speaker 3: good because we're in the Champions League.
Speaker 4: Weeeople want to come. I take you to the to
Speaker 4: Arsenal Champions League.
Speaker 2: Guy, I have covered.
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