1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,840 Speaker 1: Welcome to Ruthie's Table four, a production of iHeartRadio and 2 00:00:03,920 --> 00:00:05,440 Speaker 1: Adamized Studios. 3 00:00:09,880 --> 00:00:12,880 Speaker 2: Some weeks ago, Ian Wright and his beautiful family were 4 00:00:12,880 --> 00:00:16,160 Speaker 2: sitting here in the River Cafe garden celebrating Nancy, his 5 00:00:16,200 --> 00:00:20,480 Speaker 2: wife's birthday. Ruthie the Waiter said to me, please go 6 00:00:20,520 --> 00:00:23,280 Speaker 2: and ask him to do a podcast, especially for all 7 00:00:23,320 --> 00:00:25,400 Speaker 2: of us. We know he loves to eat, but we 8 00:00:25,480 --> 00:00:28,280 Speaker 2: want to know more about him. He is our hero. 9 00:00:29,080 --> 00:00:31,880 Speaker 2: Ian does a lot that I could never dream of achieving, 10 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:35,720 Speaker 2: for instance, kicking footballs into nets. But we do share 11 00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:38,720 Speaker 2: a lot as well, concern for healthy eating for children, 12 00:00:39,120 --> 00:00:43,239 Speaker 2: advocacy for social justice, a more fair society, and an 13 00:00:43,320 --> 00:00:46,760 Speaker 2: end to racial discrimination. Today on Table four, we're going 14 00:00:46,800 --> 00:00:49,479 Speaker 2: to get to know each other better, discussing all this 15 00:00:49,640 --> 00:00:55,080 Speaker 2: and more, including having delicious lunches with our family. Thank 16 00:00:55,120 --> 00:00:56,840 Speaker 2: you so much for doing this, and you're going to 17 00:00:56,880 --> 00:00:57,480 Speaker 2: stay for lunch? 18 00:00:57,760 --> 00:01:06,840 Speaker 3: Yes, yesky, deep fried zucchini flowers Okay, twelve male zucchini flowers, 19 00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:10,400 Speaker 3: sunflower oil for deep frying, two hundred and twenty five 20 00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:14,800 Speaker 3: grams plain flour, four tablespoons extra virgin olive oil, four 21 00:01:14,880 --> 00:01:19,440 Speaker 3: hundred millimeters of warm water sea salt. Freshly ground black pepper, 22 00:01:19,440 --> 00:01:22,600 Speaker 3: four large egg white. For batter, you have to sive 23 00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:25,160 Speaker 3: the flour in large bowl, pour the olive oil into 24 00:01:25,160 --> 00:01:28,720 Speaker 3: a well in the center, and slowly stir with a 25 00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:31,280 Speaker 3: wide spoon to combine the flour into the OIDs. 26 00:01:31,280 --> 00:01:31,480 Speaker 4: See. 27 00:01:31,480 --> 00:01:33,039 Speaker 3: These are the kind of things where because I'm not 28 00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:36,320 Speaker 3: a great cook that I'm nervous about this. You had 29 00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:39,480 Speaker 3: a little warm water until the batter is the consistency 30 00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:42,760 Speaker 3: of double cream. Season and let it stand for at 31 00:01:42,840 --> 00:01:46,960 Speaker 3: least two hours. Eat the sunflow oil to one hundred 32 00:01:46,959 --> 00:01:48,160 Speaker 3: and eighty CENTI grade. 33 00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:51,880 Speaker 4: That's right. Wow. 34 00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:54,680 Speaker 3: Just before cooking, beat the egg white until stiff and 35 00:01:54,760 --> 00:01:55,960 Speaker 3: fold into the batter. 36 00:01:56,600 --> 00:01:58,640 Speaker 4: Yeah. And I was speaking to Louis. 37 00:01:58,840 --> 00:02:01,320 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, he was telling me about how much he 38 00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:03,800 Speaker 3: has to beat the egg whites up. So then when 39 00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:06,120 Speaker 3: you know that they've don't you can turn it around 40 00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:08,160 Speaker 3: and then they don't fall out, which I thought. 41 00:02:07,960 --> 00:02:10,360 Speaker 4: Was pretty cool. So over your head, yes, and it 42 00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:11,519 Speaker 4: doesn't fall out. 43 00:02:11,680 --> 00:02:11,920 Speaker 2: Cool. 44 00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:12,920 Speaker 4: Hi, I'm Louis. 45 00:02:12,919 --> 00:02:14,799 Speaker 5: I'm a chef at the River Cafe, and today we're 46 00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:17,760 Speaker 5: going to be making deep fried zucchini flowers with Ian Wright. 47 00:02:18,040 --> 00:02:20,000 Speaker 4: Nice one look forward to it. 48 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:23,639 Speaker 5: So basically, what we've done is we've made a batter 49 00:02:23,720 --> 00:02:27,680 Speaker 5: with zero zero flower olive oil and some like ice 50 00:02:27,720 --> 00:02:31,440 Speaker 5: cold water, and then we'll fold through some whipped up 51 00:02:31,480 --> 00:02:33,600 Speaker 5: egg whites. Yes that you want to whip them till 52 00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:35,359 Speaker 5: they're you know, stay if you can hold a ball 53 00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:37,760 Speaker 5: ups up above your head and they won't fall out, 54 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:41,400 Speaker 5: and that really helps her like puff up the batter 55 00:02:41,680 --> 00:02:44,079 Speaker 5: and like makes them go. Helps with like the crispyness. 56 00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:48,080 Speaker 5: We get these amazing zucchini flowers in from from Italy. 57 00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:53,600 Speaker 5: They're really fresh, vibrant. Yeah, these locks off of the 58 00:02:53,639 --> 00:02:57,160 Speaker 5: you know, the cross within the within the last day 59 00:02:57,240 --> 00:03:00,800 Speaker 5: or two and yeah, and we'll unky's in the batter, 60 00:03:01,360 --> 00:03:04,280 Speaker 5: fry them for a minute at one hundred and ninety 61 00:03:04,320 --> 00:03:07,280 Speaker 5: degrees and then they're just really delicious with a big 62 00:03:07,320 --> 00:03:08,880 Speaker 5: punch of salt and a wedge of lemon. 63 00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:10,520 Speaker 3: When I first saw them, I was like, what are 64 00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:12,680 Speaker 3: those about? Yeah, and then you taste them, they almost 65 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:15,520 Speaker 3: like they kind of almost melt in your mouth like dissolve. 66 00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:18,760 Speaker 4: You know, They're very easy to continue just to eat 67 00:03:18,800 --> 00:03:19,320 Speaker 4: in them. 68 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:22,200 Speaker 2: It only makes yourcuini flowers. When we're we're in literaly 69 00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:24,120 Speaker 2: because you get them, we go and pick them from 70 00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:25,919 Speaker 2: the garden, right, and then we fry. 71 00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:26,919 Speaker 4: Them, and it's so beautiful. 72 00:03:26,919 --> 00:03:29,000 Speaker 2: One, it's so beautiful, and I think it's what children 73 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:33,040 Speaker 2: really love to do, because ultimately it sounds perhaps more 74 00:03:33,080 --> 00:03:35,600 Speaker 2: complicated than it is, because basically what you're doing is 75 00:03:35,600 --> 00:03:37,880 Speaker 2: you're making batter of folding the egg whites into that, 76 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:41,120 Speaker 2: and then you have the flowers. You dip them in 77 00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:44,200 Speaker 2: and I like very little batter on them because the 78 00:03:44,240 --> 00:03:47,720 Speaker 2: flower that's so delicate. And then I don't know what 79 00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:50,480 Speaker 2: one hundred and eighty degrees is when I'm frying oil. 80 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:52,280 Speaker 2: So what you do is you just heat it for 81 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:53,840 Speaker 2: a long time and then when you put the flour in, 82 00:03:53,880 --> 00:03:57,680 Speaker 2: it sizzles, and if it doesn't sizzle, it's probably not already. 83 00:03:57,720 --> 00:03:59,320 Speaker 2: But so it does look like I have to probably 84 00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:03,360 Speaker 2: write a new cook so I'm prepared to do that. 85 00:04:03,640 --> 00:04:06,080 Speaker 2: But tell me about your because you do love to 86 00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:08,840 Speaker 2: eat out. Yes, I see you here and you always 87 00:04:08,840 --> 00:04:12,000 Speaker 2: seem so happy. Did you eat out as a child. 88 00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:14,920 Speaker 3: No, This is probably why I love eating out so much. 89 00:04:14,960 --> 00:04:18,560 Speaker 3: I didn't actually start eating out until obviously, I think 90 00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:21,680 Speaker 3: I'm probably twenty one. Yeah, I didn't have a lot 91 00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:25,880 Speaker 3: of experiences of going to restaurants. And even when I 92 00:04:25,960 --> 00:04:28,720 Speaker 3: started doing that, I only I started eating past the 93 00:04:28,839 --> 00:04:31,240 Speaker 3: very late in my life. My mum never there wasn't 94 00:04:31,160 --> 00:04:33,120 Speaker 3: a lot of variety. There's a lot of West Indians 95 00:04:33,520 --> 00:04:38,400 Speaker 3: stew chicken. It was curry, golt, mutton, tripe, pigs, trotter's oxtail, 96 00:04:38,839 --> 00:04:41,040 Speaker 3: white rice, rice with peas. 97 00:04:41,200 --> 00:04:42,120 Speaker 4: Boiled dumplings. 98 00:04:42,400 --> 00:04:44,479 Speaker 3: So it was that kind of food all the way 99 00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:46,440 Speaker 3: up until that point. And I remember when I started 100 00:04:46,440 --> 00:04:50,240 Speaker 3: playing football in Crystal Palace, I used to get very 101 00:04:50,279 --> 00:04:53,280 Speaker 3: nervous about going to like we used to have to 102 00:04:53,320 --> 00:04:54,960 Speaker 3: go to hotels. You just have to go to restaurants 103 00:04:54,960 --> 00:04:57,680 Speaker 3: and communal eat all of us together. And I was 104 00:04:57,880 --> 00:05:00,839 Speaker 3: very insecure about it because I did no I didn't 105 00:05:00,880 --> 00:05:01,520 Speaker 3: know foods. 106 00:05:01,560 --> 00:05:02,520 Speaker 4: So and then we. 107 00:05:02,520 --> 00:05:05,479 Speaker 3: Had older players who were really they were quite mean. 108 00:05:06,200 --> 00:05:08,359 Speaker 3: Let's say things like, you know, you know you've got 109 00:05:08,440 --> 00:05:11,359 Speaker 3: duffin wires on there, you know you've got sour tae potatoes, 110 00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:12,880 Speaker 3: And they'd say things like do you know you don't 111 00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:14,160 Speaker 3: even have to spell duffing wair? 112 00:05:14,440 --> 00:05:14,880 Speaker 4: You know what I mean? 113 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:17,640 Speaker 3: Do you know what potatoes ares? Can you afford steak? 114 00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:20,120 Speaker 3: So what I would do is I would I would 115 00:05:20,240 --> 00:05:22,120 Speaker 3: end up then getting my mum to make me something. 116 00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:24,520 Speaker 3: I'd go down so the boss would see me, and 117 00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:26,560 Speaker 3: then I'd say for a fire, and then I'd leave 118 00:05:26,920 --> 00:05:28,560 Speaker 3: and get my food warmed up by the people in 119 00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:30,800 Speaker 3: the kitchen, and I'd eat in my in my hotel room. 120 00:05:30,839 --> 00:05:32,120 Speaker 3: And that's what we used to do when we was younger. 121 00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:34,960 Speaker 3: We used to all eat either in the bedroom or 122 00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:36,960 Speaker 3: in the living room in front of television or stuff 123 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:37,240 Speaker 3: like that. 124 00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:39,120 Speaker 4: So I was more comfortable doing that. 125 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:44,119 Speaker 3: But my problem was insecurity about ordering the food. 126 00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:46,520 Speaker 2: So you know, it's intimidated. 127 00:05:46,600 --> 00:05:48,880 Speaker 3: It was, and it was intimating to the point where 128 00:05:49,200 --> 00:05:51,520 Speaker 3: the manager I've done it a few a few times, 129 00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:53,560 Speaker 3: about three or four times, you didn't see me at dinner. 130 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:57,120 Speaker 3: I remember in the morning he said, where are you? 131 00:05:57,240 --> 00:05:59,560 Speaker 3: I'm not seeing you at the dinner. That's how I 132 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:03,120 Speaker 3: get together. And then I explained to him why, and 133 00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:05,719 Speaker 3: then he kind of sorted that out for me. 134 00:06:06,320 --> 00:06:07,479 Speaker 4: He had a word with them. You know. 135 00:06:07,520 --> 00:06:12,320 Speaker 3: Obviously, you know it didn't help because obviously when people, yeah, 136 00:06:12,520 --> 00:06:14,560 Speaker 3: it was, it was, it didn't help. But then I 137 00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:16,640 Speaker 3: just I just blasted through it. And so offer the 138 00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:19,120 Speaker 3: back of that, yeah, you know, you start to because 139 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:20,919 Speaker 3: you get into a situation where you can go to 140 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:24,479 Speaker 3: nice restaurants, and so when I love. 141 00:06:24,279 --> 00:06:27,880 Speaker 2: It, so when you talk about being excellent at your sport, 142 00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:31,680 Speaker 2: being able to do what you do so well, and 143 00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:34,400 Speaker 2: that you're on a team, and then going to a 144 00:06:34,440 --> 00:06:37,279 Speaker 2: meal time was painful, And it was painful because you 145 00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:40,479 Speaker 2: were made to feel unable to feel in theory. 146 00:06:40,560 --> 00:06:42,480 Speaker 3: To be honest, if I was about I was twenty one. 147 00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:44,479 Speaker 3: In fact, I just turned twenty two when I joined 148 00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:46,960 Speaker 3: Crystal Palace, so it was very late for me. A 149 00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:49,279 Speaker 3: lot of my experiences started to come as learning on 150 00:06:49,400 --> 00:06:53,560 Speaker 3: the job, about mixing with people, different people, worldly people, 151 00:06:54,240 --> 00:06:57,000 Speaker 3: you know, know it, you know, even just the knife 152 00:06:57,000 --> 00:06:59,839 Speaker 3: and forks from you know, outside in you know, knowing 153 00:06:59,880 --> 00:07:00,360 Speaker 3: what to do. 154 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:02,160 Speaker 4: You know, you sit there and you're nervous. 155 00:07:02,560 --> 00:07:06,240 Speaker 3: And so those were the kind of intimidating things about 156 00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:08,280 Speaker 3: going to a restaurant or eating with people that used 157 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:11,080 Speaker 3: to really frighten me because I never we ate on 158 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:13,680 Speaker 3: our laps literally all the way through. 159 00:07:13,720 --> 00:07:14,880 Speaker 4: And it's obviously was. 160 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:19,400 Speaker 2: Your mother working. Was there a table where you could sit. 161 00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:21,600 Speaker 3: No, the kitchen wasn't big enough for a table for 162 00:07:21,720 --> 00:07:23,760 Speaker 3: the four of us, So it was it was my mom, 163 00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:28,920 Speaker 3: my stepdad, my older brother, me and my sister. So 164 00:07:29,080 --> 00:07:30,800 Speaker 3: you know, there wasn't enough space for all of us 165 00:07:30,800 --> 00:07:34,320 Speaker 3: to sit and have that dinner and have that chat. 166 00:07:34,640 --> 00:07:36,640 Speaker 3: We never done that, you know, that's something that's happened 167 00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:37,520 Speaker 3: to me later in my life. 168 00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:40,600 Speaker 2: And your mother you were describing that the food that 169 00:07:41,040 --> 00:07:43,800 Speaker 2: probably cook quite a lot of effort to cook. So 170 00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:45,840 Speaker 2: would she cook that all day? Why would she have 171 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:46,240 Speaker 2: a job. 172 00:07:46,360 --> 00:07:49,080 Speaker 3: No, no, no, no, she didn't work, and she didn't work, 173 00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:52,080 Speaker 3: but she did cook the food obviously from the morning. 174 00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:54,400 Speaker 3: The thing is, we didn't eat a lot of food. 175 00:07:54,680 --> 00:07:57,400 Speaker 3: You know, I didn't eat like breakfast, lug I could skip. 176 00:07:57,440 --> 00:07:59,720 Speaker 2: There was no problem was that because you couldn't afford 177 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:00,560 Speaker 2: it would. 178 00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:02,680 Speaker 3: Have been there, but like I wasn't used to having it, 179 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:04,960 Speaker 3: you know, and we could literally go up and you know, 180 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:07,920 Speaker 3: you can have cereal if you want, or for lunch. 181 00:08:08,520 --> 00:08:10,040 Speaker 3: You know, you can have it if you want. But 182 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:14,080 Speaker 3: I found that probably because I was out playing football 183 00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:16,400 Speaker 3: all day or doing so that all day. It didn't 184 00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:18,440 Speaker 3: bother me to eat breakfast, eat lunch. But the dinner 185 00:08:18,680 --> 00:08:21,680 Speaker 3: was something that was always there, and it was very 186 00:08:21,720 --> 00:08:24,560 Speaker 3: repetitious of everything that we always have. You know, we 187 00:08:24,600 --> 00:08:27,240 Speaker 3: had rice, some peas and chicken on a Sunday. You 188 00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:31,360 Speaker 3: had soup on a Saturday, mutton curried mutton and stuff 189 00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:33,240 Speaker 3: like that, white rice, rice and peas, and that is 190 00:08:33,320 --> 00:08:35,480 Speaker 3: the diet all the way. For I didn't start eating 191 00:08:35,480 --> 00:08:37,760 Speaker 3: pasta till I was like twenty one, because when I 192 00:08:37,800 --> 00:08:39,520 Speaker 3: was at school, you used to see little pasta bits 193 00:08:39,520 --> 00:08:41,640 Speaker 3: that they used to have in school, like used to 194 00:08:41,760 --> 00:08:44,600 Speaker 3: draw patterns around them for Zilly and Penny and all 195 00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:46,760 Speaker 3: that sort of stuff, And so I didn't see that 196 00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:48,800 Speaker 3: as something that we should be eating. You'd go to 197 00:08:48,880 --> 00:08:51,440 Speaker 3: some people's houses and their parents would make macaroni cheese 198 00:08:51,440 --> 00:08:54,520 Speaker 3: with the sunday rice and peas, but my mum never 199 00:08:54,559 --> 00:08:57,960 Speaker 3: made that. So I wasn't very good with anything that 200 00:08:58,000 --> 00:08:59,839 Speaker 3: my mom didn't make. She didn't make a lot of 201 00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:02,160 Speaker 3: getables for us. There was we used to get some 202 00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:05,600 Speaker 3: kalalou when we was younger, West Indian klalou like a 203 00:09:05,640 --> 00:09:08,240 Speaker 3: green cabbage thing. But I didn't eat a lot of 204 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:11,160 Speaker 3: stuff because school dinners for me were a nightmare. 205 00:09:11,200 --> 00:09:12,360 Speaker 4: Why were they there? Was? 206 00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:15,360 Speaker 3: It was so blind, it was so so plain, and 207 00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:17,160 Speaker 3: everything that my mom, my mom cooked with a lot 208 00:09:17,160 --> 00:09:20,360 Speaker 3: of seasoning. So this is why, you know, as time 209 00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:22,320 Speaker 3: went by, even when I'm sure we'll get onto it, 210 00:09:22,320 --> 00:09:25,719 Speaker 3: when with Arsenal and Arson Venger, eating bland. 211 00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:27,360 Speaker 4: Food is very very difficult for me. 212 00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:31,120 Speaker 3: It has to be seasoned or some form of taste, 213 00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:33,920 Speaker 3: you know, I need to have that. So you know, 214 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:35,920 Speaker 3: that is something that my mum done a lot. And 215 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:38,439 Speaker 3: so anyway I went to eat, if it wasn't seasoned properly, 216 00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:39,360 Speaker 3: I could easily not eat. 217 00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:41,960 Speaker 2: Did you qualify for free school lunches? 218 00:09:42,200 --> 00:09:46,040 Speaker 3: Yes, we did, which was obviously again it had its 219 00:09:46,040 --> 00:09:49,839 Speaker 3: own drawbacks, but I was I was never bothered about 220 00:09:49,840 --> 00:09:52,160 Speaker 3: being teased for that, and you were that, yeah, you 221 00:09:52,200 --> 00:09:54,120 Speaker 3: tease that because one of the things I always used 222 00:09:54,160 --> 00:09:57,720 Speaker 3: to wonder what they why they did it was you 223 00:09:57,760 --> 00:10:00,720 Speaker 3: had to cue up in a different line, you know, 224 00:10:00,800 --> 00:10:03,960 Speaker 3: And it was always you know, you get people who 225 00:10:04,400 --> 00:10:06,760 Speaker 3: you know, kids, the kids, aren't they just tease you 226 00:10:06,800 --> 00:10:08,600 Speaker 3: and stuff like that. And what was what I used 227 00:10:08,640 --> 00:10:10,679 Speaker 3: to get a lot of teasing for because obviously I 228 00:10:10,720 --> 00:10:13,080 Speaker 3: was quite good at the football at the time, so 229 00:10:13,120 --> 00:10:16,320 Speaker 3: they find find something that they could use against me 230 00:10:16,400 --> 00:10:19,040 Speaker 3: to to try and make me feel bad and insecure. 231 00:10:19,040 --> 00:10:21,240 Speaker 3: And it used to work. So some of the times 232 00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:23,120 Speaker 3: I used to really I used to wait and wait 233 00:10:23,160 --> 00:10:25,800 Speaker 3: and wait, and then I'd go and do it. And 234 00:10:25,800 --> 00:10:27,439 Speaker 3: then if people tease you just get on with. 235 00:10:27,400 --> 00:10:28,120 Speaker 4: It, you know. 236 00:10:28,559 --> 00:10:29,839 Speaker 2: Was an inner city school. 237 00:10:31,320 --> 00:10:33,600 Speaker 4: I went to a school called Samuel Peeps in Brookolyn. 238 00:10:34,440 --> 00:10:38,120 Speaker 3: I love the school even though you had such yeah, 239 00:10:38,160 --> 00:10:40,000 Speaker 3: because like you know my friends, you know, and I. 240 00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:42,880 Speaker 2: Could play football if you have a skill. 241 00:10:43,559 --> 00:10:45,840 Speaker 3: Because yeah, because my problem was when I was younger, 242 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:50,760 Speaker 3: was my attention spanning the classroom wasn't very good at all. 243 00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:53,080 Speaker 3: And when I couldn't grasp what they were doing it, 244 00:10:53,080 --> 00:10:54,920 Speaker 3: I'd get a bit disruptive. 245 00:10:54,440 --> 00:10:56,959 Speaker 2: And this is you know, that was much more recognized. 246 00:10:57,520 --> 00:10:58,920 Speaker 3: But then what they used to do, they say, if 247 00:10:58,920 --> 00:11:01,160 Speaker 3: you don't start paying at mentioned moreis and you know, 248 00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:04,760 Speaker 3: you're not going to be able to play football that way. Yeah, 249 00:11:04,800 --> 00:11:07,360 Speaker 3: And so that was another massive worry for me, because 250 00:11:07,720 --> 00:11:10,880 Speaker 3: it wasn't because I was just being disruptive for being disruptive, 251 00:11:11,160 --> 00:11:15,000 Speaker 3: It's just I couldn't grasp lesson as quickly as other people. 252 00:11:15,280 --> 00:11:17,800 Speaker 4: So you know, now I understand it more. 253 00:11:17,800 --> 00:11:21,679 Speaker 3: But like, yeah, the food again, going back, one of 254 00:11:21,720 --> 00:11:25,400 Speaker 3: the things I did love about school was desserts and 255 00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:28,040 Speaker 3: after us because we never had anything like that. You 256 00:11:28,200 --> 00:11:31,360 Speaker 3: might have had digestive biscuits when we were younger, and 257 00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:34,120 Speaker 3: chocolate biscuits every now and then, but it wasn't very 258 00:11:34,240 --> 00:11:36,040 Speaker 3: We didn't have them a lot. You know, you go 259 00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:38,240 Speaker 3: to your friend's house and they would have all sorts 260 00:11:38,240 --> 00:11:41,640 Speaker 3: of like stuff in their larder and their kitchen, but 261 00:11:41,679 --> 00:11:44,840 Speaker 3: we never had that. So the school dessert, like school puddings, 262 00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:50,800 Speaker 3: was amazing, you know, so apple pie and custard, you know, 263 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:52,680 Speaker 3: because I didn't eat custard for a while because obviously 264 00:11:52,679 --> 00:11:54,200 Speaker 3: I didn't have it home, so I didn't like that. 265 00:11:54,679 --> 00:11:57,079 Speaker 3: So I used to always have the sponge on its own. 266 00:11:57,120 --> 00:11:59,240 Speaker 3: I used to have the apple bound it so and 267 00:11:59,280 --> 00:12:00,719 Speaker 3: then you'd have the sponge with the jam and the 268 00:12:00,760 --> 00:12:04,920 Speaker 3: coconut on the top of it, you know, and apple crumble. Honestly, 269 00:12:04,960 --> 00:12:07,360 Speaker 3: I used to look so forward to it. And I 270 00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:09,360 Speaker 3: remember I used to have a friend who used to 271 00:12:09,360 --> 00:12:12,000 Speaker 3: give me all these sponges because he didn't like sponge. 272 00:12:12,520 --> 00:12:13,760 Speaker 3: And then there was a time I used to give 273 00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:15,880 Speaker 3: him all the apple pies and all that that kind 274 00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:16,439 Speaker 3: of pace you on. 275 00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:18,280 Speaker 4: And then I remember one day I. 276 00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:20,480 Speaker 3: Just said to him, I'm just going to taste it 277 00:12:20,559 --> 00:12:23,600 Speaker 3: because I never tasted it, you know, And then I 278 00:12:23,640 --> 00:12:25,760 Speaker 3: tasted it with the cusses, and I just I said, 279 00:12:25,760 --> 00:12:29,320 Speaker 3: I can't give it to you. 280 00:12:29,320 --> 00:12:31,160 Speaker 2: Did your mother grow up in poverty? 281 00:12:31,760 --> 00:12:35,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, she could in Jamaica. It's very tough and grew 282 00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:38,160 Speaker 3: up with like seven eight siblings. You know, it's quite tough. 283 00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:40,439 Speaker 3: She had to me and she had to move out 284 00:12:40,440 --> 00:12:42,560 Speaker 3: and go and live with my aunts who didn't treat 285 00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:44,120 Speaker 3: her very well. And that was one of the things 286 00:12:44,120 --> 00:12:46,560 Speaker 3: as well. I didn't get to to really find out 287 00:12:46,640 --> 00:12:50,080 Speaker 3: the deep rooted problems with my mom's, with my mom's 288 00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:53,040 Speaker 3: like mental health and everything, what she went through, because 289 00:12:53,040 --> 00:12:55,120 Speaker 3: you'd be sitting down just watching the television and then 290 00:12:55,720 --> 00:12:57,360 Speaker 3: you know, my mum would just burst out cry. She 291 00:12:57,440 --> 00:12:59,120 Speaker 3: just you just see tears just coming down her face. 292 00:12:59,160 --> 00:13:02,000 Speaker 3: But as time went by, obviously, you know, people always 293 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:04,240 Speaker 3: talk about my stuff, my Desert Island disc and I 294 00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:07,160 Speaker 3: tried to be as candid as I possibly could, but 295 00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:09,560 Speaker 3: I just remember how she used to be. She was 296 00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:13,320 Speaker 3: so she was so sad inside and kind of took 297 00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:16,160 Speaker 3: it out on me and my brothers and sisters and that. 298 00:13:16,520 --> 00:13:20,760 Speaker 3: But like never ever spoke about what happened to her, 299 00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:23,079 Speaker 3: to the point where some of the time she spoke 300 00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:26,160 Speaker 3: to me about her aunt and my cousin Ali Alvin. 301 00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:30,360 Speaker 3: Al Vanni's name was yeah, and his mum was, she's 302 00:13:30,440 --> 00:13:31,640 Speaker 3: really nasty to my mom. 303 00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:32,400 Speaker 4: You know. 304 00:13:32,440 --> 00:13:34,120 Speaker 3: When she used to tell the stories, she burst into 305 00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:35,600 Speaker 3: tears talking about that sort of stuff. 306 00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:38,520 Speaker 2: So that kind of abusively scars it, does, you know. 307 00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:41,240 Speaker 2: And I think that was maybe the way she had 308 00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:44,680 Speaker 2: trouble expressing her love because you spoke about you know, 309 00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:45,120 Speaker 2: but the. 310 00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:45,719 Speaker 4: Thing of it is ruf. 311 00:13:45,880 --> 00:13:48,400 Speaker 3: She always made sure there was a meal on there 312 00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:50,080 Speaker 3: for us, you know, we you know, we didn't have 313 00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:52,720 Speaker 3: like the greatest closing, but the clothes are clean. 314 00:13:52,760 --> 00:13:55,440 Speaker 4: Everything was nice, you know, ours was presented. Everything was nice. 315 00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:59,120 Speaker 3: But you know, she she just didn't have much. 316 00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:04,600 Speaker 2: You talk about your Jamaican family, your mother coming from Jamaica, 317 00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:07,400 Speaker 2: leaving her family in Jamaica or did they come with her? 318 00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:09,600 Speaker 2: They left? So she left, she left. 319 00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:12,120 Speaker 3: How old was she She probably was when she came out. 320 00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:15,520 Speaker 3: She came up in the Windrush generation, so she came 321 00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:18,800 Speaker 3: here in I think it's fifty eight, you know, so, 322 00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:20,040 Speaker 3: and she came on her own. 323 00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:23,160 Speaker 4: How old was she My mum was born nineteen thirty three. 324 00:14:23,640 --> 00:14:26,120 Speaker 3: In fact, she might have been born earlier than thirty 325 00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:28,360 Speaker 3: three then because when she died she was ninety four. 326 00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:32,040 Speaker 3: But like she came in that generation, you know, and 327 00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:34,080 Speaker 3: she came and stayed with friends and it just went 328 00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:36,920 Speaker 3: from there. So she had no family, not here, just 329 00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:40,400 Speaker 3: like friends and acquaintances. There was a couple of long 330 00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:43,480 Speaker 3: distance cousins who were here as well that came in 331 00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:46,080 Speaker 3: and around the same time, and so they met up. 332 00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:47,720 Speaker 3: So this is why I grew up in and around 333 00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:51,520 Speaker 3: Broccoli Lewis and Deptford, New Cross, all that side. 334 00:14:51,520 --> 00:14:53,160 Speaker 4: That's where everybody everybody. 335 00:14:53,440 --> 00:14:55,840 Speaker 2: Did you ever go back to Jamaica? Have you been back? 336 00:14:56,120 --> 00:14:56,280 Speaker 4: Yeah? 337 00:14:56,320 --> 00:14:57,600 Speaker 3: I used to go a lot when I was at 338 00:14:57,600 --> 00:15:00,640 Speaker 3: Crystal Palace in eighty five. You know when I started 339 00:15:00,640 --> 00:15:03,200 Speaker 3: when I was able to afford to do that, because 340 00:15:03,200 --> 00:15:05,200 Speaker 3: the first time I went on on an airplane was 341 00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:08,600 Speaker 3: with Crystal Palace. You know, I was twenty, I was 342 00:15:08,680 --> 00:15:11,120 Speaker 3: just turned twenty two and we act finally we went 343 00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:14,760 Speaker 3: to Qatar. It was amazing, did you Yeah, it was unbelievable. 344 00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:16,920 Speaker 3: But we flew over the Alps and that, and it 345 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:18,960 Speaker 3: was like obviously the first time I was on a plane, 346 00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:23,160 Speaker 3: I just couldn't believe it. I was really afraid yet 347 00:15:23,360 --> 00:15:25,960 Speaker 3: because most of the trip I was doing how does 348 00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:26,640 Speaker 3: this stay up? 349 00:15:27,400 --> 00:15:28,120 Speaker 4: Stay up here? 350 00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:29,600 Speaker 2: I still think that. 351 00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:31,680 Speaker 3: You know, And I remember, like again, like we had 352 00:15:31,720 --> 00:15:34,880 Speaker 3: those those the older guys who obviously they. 353 00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:36,480 Speaker 4: Knew, you know, this is first time. 354 00:15:36,520 --> 00:15:39,800 Speaker 3: All this experiences was new to me, and like, I 355 00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:42,280 Speaker 3: think back on these experiences and they were amazing, but 356 00:15:42,360 --> 00:15:45,120 Speaker 3: it's it's always tinged with their nastiness because I remember 357 00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:47,480 Speaker 3: one of the things that they said to me, which 358 00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:52,000 Speaker 3: I'll never forget, was you have to be You're most 359 00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:55,200 Speaker 3: afraid when you're on a plane, the thirty seconds before 360 00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:57,440 Speaker 3: you take off and the thirty seconds before you land. 361 00:15:57,920 --> 00:16:01,000 Speaker 3: And to this day, I still have anxiety about that. 362 00:16:01,160 --> 00:16:04,400 Speaker 2: Can I ask you if when you were started out 363 00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:10,080 Speaker 2: was the bullying that was it? Racist players? 364 00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:11,000 Speaker 4: Yeah? 365 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:15,760 Speaker 3: There was me, Tony Finnigan, Andy Gray, Henry Houghton was 366 00:16:15,760 --> 00:16:18,040 Speaker 3: there at the time as well. But yeah, the racing 367 00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:20,760 Speaker 3: was pretty bad. It was very it was accepted. It 368 00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:22,320 Speaker 3: was nowhere near what it's like now. 369 00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:23,920 Speaker 2: The cruelty was from the white players. 370 00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:26,360 Speaker 3: It was from the white players and the older players, 371 00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:28,480 Speaker 3: you know, Obviously the younger guys who were in and 372 00:16:28,520 --> 00:16:31,280 Speaker 3: around the same age as us sympathizes with us. They 373 00:16:31,280 --> 00:16:33,080 Speaker 3: didn't like it, but it wasn't a time where you 374 00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:35,520 Speaker 3: could stand up to that kind of that kind of 375 00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:38,600 Speaker 3: presence in the dressing room because those guys that would 376 00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:41,160 Speaker 3: have been eighty five, between eighty five and you know, 377 00:16:42,040 --> 00:16:42,720 Speaker 3: eighty five. 378 00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:44,280 Speaker 2: Until Yeah, has it changed. 379 00:16:44,640 --> 00:16:46,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's changed a lot, because now what's happened is 380 00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:51,160 Speaker 3: that there's allies. Yeah, you know, black people don't don't 381 00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:53,320 Speaker 3: want racism. You know, if it was up to black 382 00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:57,080 Speaker 3: people for racism to stop, it wouldn't be there, you know. 383 00:16:57,120 --> 00:16:58,960 Speaker 3: But what you have to understand is is that without 384 00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:01,880 Speaker 3: white people, white white allies, you're not going to shift 385 00:17:01,880 --> 00:17:04,120 Speaker 3: that you're not going to make a move on the dial. 386 00:17:04,640 --> 00:17:06,840 Speaker 3: And what's happening now is that there are more allies, 387 00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:08,720 Speaker 3: there are more people who speak out, There are more 388 00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:12,119 Speaker 3: people that now are more than willing to put themselves 389 00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:14,200 Speaker 3: to put their heads above the parapet and say things 390 00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:15,600 Speaker 3: that you could never see. 391 00:17:15,840 --> 00:17:19,080 Speaker 2: One of the great great memories, and I'm much older 392 00:17:19,119 --> 00:17:21,320 Speaker 2: than you, but one of the really defining memories of 393 00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:25,360 Speaker 2: my life was watching the Olympic Games in Mexico when 394 00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:30,919 Speaker 2: the Three ran, and that taught me. I mean, my 395 00:17:31,040 --> 00:17:35,520 Speaker 2: parents are already you know, they went south, you know, 396 00:17:35,680 --> 00:17:38,800 Speaker 2: the civil rights My brother was arrested in Mississippi. We 397 00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:43,320 Speaker 2: were very liberal thinking family, but seeing the power of 398 00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:46,280 Speaker 2: that solute and their lives were rude, absolutely rue. They 399 00:17:46,280 --> 00:17:47,280 Speaker 2: never ran again. 400 00:17:47,560 --> 00:17:49,920 Speaker 3: Never ran again when they went back, like ostracized back 401 00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:52,440 Speaker 3: in America. You know, it was it was a sad 402 00:17:52,440 --> 00:17:55,720 Speaker 3: state of affairs, but like it was a tragedy really, 403 00:17:55,760 --> 00:17:57,720 Speaker 3: but when you look at what it's done and that 404 00:17:57,880 --> 00:18:00,119 Speaker 3: symbol and how powerful that symbol is. You know, you 405 00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:02,359 Speaker 3: look at the guys now they're taking the knee, the 406 00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:04,520 Speaker 3: girls as well, where they're playing, they're. 407 00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:04,840 Speaker 4: Taking the knee. 408 00:18:04,840 --> 00:18:06,760 Speaker 3: And people say, well, it's it's run its course, it 409 00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:09,959 Speaker 3: doesn't it's got no it's got no effect. People are 410 00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:13,440 Speaker 3: not taking it. What has when you talk about racism, 411 00:18:13,560 --> 00:18:16,800 Speaker 3: you know what has had an effect and you have 412 00:18:16,840 --> 00:18:18,280 Speaker 3: to look at and you have to say you have 413 00:18:18,359 --> 00:18:21,720 Speaker 3: to let people still know that you will stand against it. 414 00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:22,600 Speaker 3: And this is what's happening. 415 00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:22,719 Speaker 4: Now. 416 00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:25,960 Speaker 3: You've got kids at their little football matches, they will 417 00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:27,760 Speaker 3: take the knee. They'll do it on their little football 418 00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:29,240 Speaker 3: pictures because they are aware of. 419 00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:30,719 Speaker 2: It, and that changes. 420 00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:31,840 Speaker 4: That is how it changes. 421 00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:35,240 Speaker 3: You know, education is the way because if someone's ignorant 422 00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:37,119 Speaker 3: to something, they're going to be they're going to be 423 00:18:37,119 --> 00:18:39,359 Speaker 3: against it. When you teach them what's going on and 424 00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:41,920 Speaker 3: they understand it, you can no longer be ignorant to it. 425 00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:46,000 Speaker 3: You know, Racism is ignorance. If you reach people, teach people, 426 00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:47,880 Speaker 3: they'll lose their ignorance. 427 00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:51,399 Speaker 2: When did you think it really started changing? Was it 428 00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:57,399 Speaker 2: when when they were realized that players were really. 429 00:18:56,000 --> 00:18:59,720 Speaker 3: I think I think when it really caught hold of 430 00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:03,520 Speaker 3: the world and people really started to say, well, well 431 00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:06,840 Speaker 3: enough is enough. Obviously Colin Capane taking the knee for 432 00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:11,840 Speaker 3: injustice and inequality, but like George Floyd, the death of 433 00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:14,960 Speaker 3: George Floyd really brought it to people's attention that none 434 00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:17,600 Speaker 3: come on now, you know, come on. 435 00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:19,480 Speaker 2: Only places that you wouldn't. 436 00:19:19,080 --> 00:19:23,160 Speaker 3: Play in respects of There's no way that I wouldn't 437 00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:26,840 Speaker 3: play because I feel that again, you have to play. 438 00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:30,040 Speaker 3: You know, I've been in stadiums where people have targeted you. 439 00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:33,640 Speaker 3: I've watched my son being targeted at my friends. It's 440 00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:36,760 Speaker 3: happened to me in stadiums in England and abroad, and 441 00:19:36,840 --> 00:19:39,000 Speaker 3: there's no way I wouldn't play. But I must say 442 00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:43,159 Speaker 3: that if I was playing now and it happened like 443 00:19:43,160 --> 00:19:45,320 Speaker 3: we're seeing it happen now, they should walk off. But 444 00:19:45,359 --> 00:19:47,600 Speaker 3: you can't walk off yourself. Your team has to walk 445 00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:51,159 Speaker 3: off that happen. I think that's going to happen at 446 00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:53,320 Speaker 3: some stage. I think that's going to happen pretty soon. 447 00:19:53,359 --> 00:19:54,919 Speaker 3: It's going to happen sooner rather than late, because I 448 00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:58,080 Speaker 3: feel like I say, the allies and the guys, great people, 449 00:19:58,359 --> 00:20:02,320 Speaker 3: Harry Kane, you know, Anderson, all these guys, Kevin de Bruyner, 450 00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:05,879 Speaker 3: you know, great football as great white players who they 451 00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:09,479 Speaker 3: won't take that and they will stand in solidarity with 452 00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:12,119 Speaker 3: their teammates, and that is going to happen sooner rather 453 00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:13,960 Speaker 3: than later. Because if I was playing now, I would 454 00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:16,879 Speaker 3: continue to take the knee. And if I got racially 455 00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:19,960 Speaker 3: abused on a football pitch, whether it was abroad or here, 456 00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:23,199 Speaker 3: I would hope that my teammates would walk off with 457 00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:26,479 Speaker 3: me because my character and my personality. I would do 458 00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:28,320 Speaker 3: that now because the power is there to do it. 459 00:20:28,359 --> 00:20:30,680 Speaker 3: But back in the day it wasn't there, and you'd 460 00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:33,400 Speaker 3: you know what it's like I saw just recently there's 461 00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:36,080 Speaker 3: a guy playing for Real Madrid who was getting like 462 00:20:36,359 --> 00:20:40,879 Speaker 3: vilified racially abused vinities junior at Real Madrid, and you 463 00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:42,960 Speaker 3: could see the pain he was going through to the 464 00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:44,840 Speaker 3: point he just stood there and the tears just started 465 00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:47,000 Speaker 3: to come down his face because he was being racially abused. 466 00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:49,400 Speaker 3: He was the one that got sent off after being 467 00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:51,919 Speaker 3: racially abused in the crowd or abusing him called monkey 468 00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:55,880 Speaker 3: chants and stuff. And what I saw with him when 469 00:20:55,880 --> 00:20:58,119 Speaker 3: he stood there and the tears coming down is something 470 00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:02,000 Speaker 3: that I've I've had to deal with myself because you're 471 00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:06,680 Speaker 3: you're helpless, you feel humiliated, and like I said, there's 472 00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:09,760 Speaker 3: nothing you can do. And so that feeling is something 473 00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:12,480 Speaker 3: that you know, you don't want people to have to 474 00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:14,199 Speaker 3: to have to go through, especially in this time, at 475 00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:16,360 Speaker 3: any time, but especially in these times when we could 476 00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:16,879 Speaker 3: do something. 477 00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:19,320 Speaker 2: There was a very long time ago there was a presented, 478 00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:21,959 Speaker 2: you know, Michael Parkinson, Yes, and you've probably seen it 479 00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:24,720 Speaker 2: on YouTube, but there was an interview between him, Mohammad 480 00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:29,199 Speaker 2: now with David Beckham and George Best. Okay, George Best 481 00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:34,240 Speaker 2: was comparing or actually David Beckham very respectfully said I'm 482 00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:36,560 Speaker 2: not going to talk on this couch. I want you know, 483 00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:39,240 Speaker 2: George Best, he should, He's the person we want to 484 00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:41,320 Speaker 2: listen to. And what he said was, you know, he 485 00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:44,880 Speaker 2: came from poverty or you know, a very very unprotected family. 486 00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:48,080 Speaker 2: And he said there was no safety net for being famous. 487 00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:51,880 Speaker 2: There was no safety net for being he was certain place. Yeah, 488 00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:55,240 Speaker 2: and that now there is a safety net for players, 489 00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:59,600 Speaker 2: you know of the big teams or who become celebrities 490 00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:02,480 Speaker 2: and that they're taking care of they looked after. And 491 00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:05,440 Speaker 2: I think what you're saying is there may be now 492 00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:07,280 Speaker 2: they may have a safety net, but it might not 493 00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:09,080 Speaker 2: include racism. 494 00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:11,520 Speaker 3: No, but it will because you have to have that 495 00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:14,640 Speaker 3: belief because there's enough people out there fighting for it. 496 00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:17,640 Speaker 3: You know, It's totally different when you look at what 497 00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:20,639 Speaker 3: George Best went through adulation, Beckham, we're looking at someone 498 00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:21,119 Speaker 3: now who. 499 00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:22,240 Speaker 4: Can Jack Greedish. 500 00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:24,720 Speaker 3: It's going through the same You're just hoping that you know, 501 00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:26,680 Speaker 3: we saw what Gaza went through and how it kind 502 00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:29,320 Speaker 3: of like what the effects it had on Gaza. But 503 00:22:29,359 --> 00:22:31,680 Speaker 3: when you're getting that kind of adulation, that kind of love, 504 00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:34,200 Speaker 3: that can affect you in a certain way. I think 505 00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:37,520 Speaker 3: David Beckham obviously you know, he's dealt with it very 506 00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:41,400 Speaker 3: very well, unbelievably unfortunately, you know, Gaza I didn't deal 507 00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:43,439 Speaker 3: with it so well. George Best was the first, like 508 00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:46,240 Speaker 3: the fifth bet or he didn't. He was, he was 509 00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:46,920 Speaker 3: paving the way. 510 00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:51,280 Speaker 2: You know, we were going to talk about Muhammad Ali. Well, 511 00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:54,360 Speaker 2: I you were going to and I asked you and 512 00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:55,800 Speaker 2: you know, again another hero. 513 00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:58,679 Speaker 4: Not the thing with Ma'amad Ali. I remember when I 514 00:22:58,720 --> 00:22:59,240 Speaker 4: was younger. 515 00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:01,680 Speaker 3: It was the interview he had and I even saw 516 00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:06,359 Speaker 3: it again the other day with Michael Parkinson and how 517 00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:11,440 Speaker 3: you know, listening to somebody that everybody loved white people, 518 00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:15,480 Speaker 3: everybody loved him the greatest, and listen to how he 519 00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:21,480 Speaker 3: navigated that interview with Michael Parkinson and twisted him with intelligence. 520 00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:23,920 Speaker 3: And I remember one of the things that stuck out 521 00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:28,399 Speaker 3: in my mind was in my memory, sorry, was him saying, listen, 522 00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:31,720 Speaker 3: I can't you can't beat me mentally and you can't 523 00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:35,679 Speaker 3: beat me physically. And I remember, yeah, I remember listening 524 00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:38,679 Speaker 3: to that. But like, what was good about it was 525 00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:42,800 Speaker 3: it made me realize, you know, to see a very 526 00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:48,560 Speaker 3: intelligent black great man there and obviously very learned black 527 00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:50,639 Speaker 3: and you know that made you think I want to 528 00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:53,560 Speaker 3: be like that. I want to be able to hold 529 00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:56,760 Speaker 3: that conversation and put that back on you so as 530 00:23:56,800 --> 00:23:58,920 Speaker 3: then we can have the conversation where we can move 531 00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:01,679 Speaker 3: on and go to a better place. And that's what 532 00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:04,720 Speaker 3: it was he did, because the questions that he was asking, 533 00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:07,280 Speaker 3: it was almost like he was he was trying to 534 00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:10,440 Speaker 3: test and belittle and that, and he was just too 535 00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:12,720 Speaker 3: smart for that. And that is why, you know, I 536 00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:15,960 Speaker 3: remember meeting him one time in Brixton and he came 537 00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:19,600 Speaker 3: over and he kissed my hand and I kissed his 538 00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:22,879 Speaker 3: hand and he kissed my hand back, and it was 539 00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:24,760 Speaker 3: when he's just getting to the place where he's just 540 00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:27,720 Speaker 3: a little bit slow, and it was a moment like, 541 00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:46,280 Speaker 3: I don't know, touch me deep emotionally, what's that there? 542 00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:50,359 Speaker 5: They are grilled marinated peppers, which are They're one of 543 00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:52,400 Speaker 5: my favorite things that I've just really starting to do, 544 00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:54,600 Speaker 5: knowing the menu every day now. So you blacken them 545 00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:57,800 Speaker 5: off on the grill, steam them with a you know, 546 00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:00,399 Speaker 5: let over, and heel them back, and then you them 547 00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:01,680 Speaker 5: with loads of vinegar and. 548 00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:04,480 Speaker 4: Is that just ready to go? Now? Ready? We might 549 00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:05,000 Speaker 4: we might. 550 00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:16,880 Speaker 5: Definitely give you a Harry no pressure, thankfully, So. 551 00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:19,159 Speaker 2: When you were growing up and you were in school 552 00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:21,880 Speaker 2: and you were having school food and you were having difficulties, 553 00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:24,360 Speaker 2: did you turn to any kind of food that would 554 00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:26,640 Speaker 2: make you feel what comfortable. 555 00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:31,240 Speaker 3: I'll tell you what I did, absolutely adore is sometimes 556 00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:34,240 Speaker 3: you might go around to your friend's house on a Sunday, 557 00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:37,679 Speaker 3: maybe after football, and we didn't have roast, because like 558 00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:40,040 Speaker 3: I say, we had we had the rice and peas 559 00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:42,640 Speaker 3: and chicken every Sunday without fail, to the point where 560 00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:45,399 Speaker 3: I remember smelling the peas in the morning and just 561 00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:47,600 Speaker 3: burst into tears because I. 562 00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:48,120 Speaker 4: Get the same thing. 563 00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:50,560 Speaker 3: That's why I kind of went off kidney beans for many, 564 00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:53,560 Speaker 3: many years, because I just I just didn't like the 565 00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:55,600 Speaker 3: size of them, I didn't like the color of I 566 00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:57,680 Speaker 3: just I just ate them too much, to the point 567 00:25:57,720 --> 00:25:59,520 Speaker 3: I used to separate them from the rice. When we 568 00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:02,080 Speaker 3: were younger, I remember going to my friend's house, my 569 00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:07,720 Speaker 3: white friend, Johnny's house, and he had Yorkshire pudding. I 570 00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:11,159 Speaker 3: never tasted anything so nice in my life. I couldn't 571 00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:14,399 Speaker 3: believe it. That was something that I craved. And I 572 00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:15,680 Speaker 3: remember I used to say to my mum, can we 573 00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:17,920 Speaker 3: have YORKSI put and came expreience you'd never get it, 574 00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:21,320 Speaker 3: we'd never have it, you know. So obviously when I 575 00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:23,840 Speaker 3: got older, you get to a point, especially once I 576 00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:26,200 Speaker 3: was able to afford it and stuff like that, because, 577 00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:27,920 Speaker 3: like I say, get into twenty twenty one, I was 578 00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:30,480 Speaker 3: still eating the same stuff, doing the same things. 579 00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:31,560 Speaker 4: But then when you start. 580 00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:35,439 Speaker 3: To kind of branch out with your with the world 581 00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:37,520 Speaker 3: that I'm now traveling with the football club and You're 582 00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:39,560 Speaker 3: going to different places, different culture, you start to eat 583 00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:42,879 Speaker 3: different things. So now you know, I will try everything 584 00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:45,920 Speaker 3: in like the same with NaNs, I have to try 585 00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:46,800 Speaker 3: something new. 586 00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:50,280 Speaker 2: One of the things of doing these podcasts and he's 587 00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:53,000 Speaker 2: talking with people, does that many of them do measure 588 00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:58,000 Speaker 2: success through their ability to have choice of food. So 589 00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:00,960 Speaker 2: they can go to a restaurant, can order a good 590 00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:04,719 Speaker 2: glass of wine, they can order and it's quite gratifying 591 00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:07,320 Speaker 2: to see that no one is entitled. You know, that 592 00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:10,560 Speaker 2: people did not grow. Sam Taylor Wood and Sam Taylor 593 00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:13,679 Speaker 2: Johnson now describes exactly like you being in a different 594 00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:17,040 Speaker 2: queue for school food, which we know shockingly still goes 595 00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:19,280 Speaker 2: on today. I don't know if they put them in, 596 00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:23,840 Speaker 2: you know, with the separate lines, but the qualifications to 597 00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:27,960 Speaker 2: have food at the moment. We're working with a food 598 00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:31,520 Speaker 2: group and the aim with Jamie Oliver is to give 599 00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:36,400 Speaker 2: children more nutritious food at lunch because we know they're 600 00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:38,960 Speaker 2: not going to have dinner. Yes, And what state of 601 00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:42,200 Speaker 2: society is that when you have to give children better 602 00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:44,920 Speaker 2: food at lunchtime because that's the only meal of the day. 603 00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:48,439 Speaker 3: Well, this is why you know, I mentioned like emins 604 00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:51,639 Speaker 3: and I've got a campaign with minscent. The reason I 605 00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:53,560 Speaker 3: like them so much is because they're making it very 606 00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:56,480 Speaker 3: easy for people to know what's healthy. 607 00:27:56,760 --> 00:27:56,960 Speaker 4: You know. 608 00:27:57,040 --> 00:27:59,960 Speaker 3: They they have an eat well flower sticker. You can 609 00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:01,760 Speaker 3: go into the shop, you see that stick and you 610 00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:05,399 Speaker 3: know that that is an healthy option for you. And 611 00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:07,800 Speaker 3: so that's why you know, I mean I kicked onto 612 00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:09,720 Speaker 3: that because I didn't even realize when I was younger, 613 00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:13,480 Speaker 3: eating healthy for me was not even I was eating 614 00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:17,920 Speaker 3: because you're hungry and you're eating to satisfy that hunger 615 00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:18,880 Speaker 3: to be full. 616 00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:21,200 Speaker 4: But now, like I say, with the. 617 00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:23,400 Speaker 3: Options, you can go there and you can you can 618 00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:25,920 Speaker 3: pick out something that is healthy because it's got the 619 00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:28,040 Speaker 3: flower on it. You don't need to read through because 620 00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:30,040 Speaker 3: it's you know, and that is another thing. You know, 621 00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:32,400 Speaker 3: Nancy went through that my wife Nancy went through all that. 622 00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:35,359 Speaker 3: Excuse me why she went through that phase where you know, 623 00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:37,639 Speaker 3: I hate going shopping in the end of her because 624 00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:41,000 Speaker 3: like she's reading everything, you know, And I think that's 625 00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:43,080 Speaker 3: one of one of the things I believe that they 626 00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:45,520 Speaker 3: should do all of the big super markets is they 627 00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:47,400 Speaker 3: should make it easier for people. 628 00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:51,520 Speaker 2: That's alwaysn't that they don't want you to see him exactly, 629 00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:53,360 Speaker 2: you know, something that it was. 630 00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:55,880 Speaker 3: Just something we have to we have to everybody. You 631 00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:58,000 Speaker 3: have to make sure that we were shining a light 632 00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:01,000 Speaker 3: on that because we're getting the ab the obasicity rates 633 00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:03,200 Speaker 3: what they're talking about. But by twenty thirty are going 634 00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:05,680 Speaker 3: to be where apparently in England we're going to be 635 00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:09,040 Speaker 3: like the most obese in Europe. We need to do 636 00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:09,920 Speaker 3: something about it. 637 00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:13,960 Speaker 2: And obesity as very often related to poverty. It's not 638 00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:16,200 Speaker 2: as you don't see if you don't walk it down 639 00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:19,360 Speaker 2: in Belgravi, you don't see people who are overweight. If 640 00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:22,160 Speaker 2: you go into a poorer section, Yeah you see people, 641 00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:24,880 Speaker 2: you do. And that's because fast food is which is cheaper, 642 00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:28,120 Speaker 2: has huge calories, you know, they pulk it up. So 643 00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:31,120 Speaker 2: I think it's it's very important. Would you tell me 644 00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:32,320 Speaker 2: about Arsen Venger. 645 00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:32,640 Speaker 4: Wow. 646 00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:35,600 Speaker 3: The thing with him, Ruphi is that he was can 647 00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:37,760 Speaker 3: I say a visionary? 648 00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:41,160 Speaker 4: A visionary in the way he came and changed the diet. 649 00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:45,680 Speaker 3: Are we talking about nineteen ninety six, ninety five ninety 650 00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:49,680 Speaker 3: six when he got there, and you know, food for 651 00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:55,680 Speaker 3: Arsen Vanger was fuel to perform. He came in and 652 00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:59,440 Speaker 3: he changed the diet from steak and chips and anything 653 00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:03,800 Speaker 3: you wanted to proper food, like everything that is good 654 00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:06,440 Speaker 3: for you. But the thing what it was with all 655 00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:09,440 Speaker 3: the vegetables and the rice and the chicken steamed, you know, 656 00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:14,880 Speaker 3: no seasoning, no salt, no salt, no seasoning, no nothing. 657 00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:17,360 Speaker 3: All we could do is drink water and eat this 658 00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:18,360 Speaker 3: bland food. 659 00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:19,240 Speaker 2: Where was he from? 660 00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:22,800 Speaker 3: It's kind of Ostrin French, it's on that border. And 661 00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:25,840 Speaker 3: when he came in, it's the first time I realized 662 00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:29,120 Speaker 3: that it's not about liking what you're eating. It's the 663 00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:32,080 Speaker 3: fact that you have to be eating this for that 664 00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:35,400 Speaker 3: slow sugar release that you need when you're performing at 665 00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:38,280 Speaker 3: a level where you need your energy, and your energy 666 00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:41,320 Speaker 3: has to be there constantly. This is why sweet things 667 00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:44,120 Speaker 3: and certain things that to shoot you up like that 668 00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:46,560 Speaker 3: during the game, you'll have to come down, because if 669 00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:48,000 Speaker 3: you shoot up, you have to come down. So this 670 00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:51,600 Speaker 3: is why pasta and broccoli and cabbage and carrots and 671 00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:54,320 Speaker 3: all those vegetables they give you that slow sugar that 672 00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:57,320 Speaker 3: burns continually so you can stay at a certain level 673 00:30:57,360 --> 00:30:59,520 Speaker 3: and you can continue to perform. And it was very 674 00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:02,280 Speaker 3: difficult at the start, but like when you started to 675 00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:04,720 Speaker 3: see everybody doing it, and you could see and obviously 676 00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:07,400 Speaker 3: we had vitamins to go alongside that. But when you 677 00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:09,280 Speaker 3: saw everybody starting to do in it and enjoying it, 678 00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:11,760 Speaker 3: then they're taking it into their home lives. 679 00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:13,160 Speaker 4: They do the same at home. 680 00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:16,280 Speaker 3: Then all of a sudden, you're realizing this is for 681 00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:19,680 Speaker 3: us to perform to the best of our ability, to 682 00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:22,720 Speaker 3: the point where when you go to restaurants you'd almost 683 00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:28,000 Speaker 3: feel guilty to have anything that wasn't going to enhance you, 684 00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:30,080 Speaker 3: you know, as some vengers. He had no problems after 685 00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:33,040 Speaker 3: the game for you to have a sugar rush like 686 00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:36,240 Speaker 3: a donut or something. But then Monday is that you've 687 00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:37,240 Speaker 3: got to be back on that. 688 00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:40,880 Speaker 2: Tell me about a day when you know that you're 689 00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:43,640 Speaker 2: going to have a very very important game and you 690 00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:44,920 Speaker 2: wake up, you open your eyes. 691 00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:47,680 Speaker 3: First you wake up, and there's always water because with 692 00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:50,080 Speaker 3: arsen Venger, you had to have water with you all 693 00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:53,520 Speaker 3: the time, right. You had to have very low fat milk, 694 00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:55,920 Speaker 3: you know, it's just very skimmed milk. You could have cereal, 695 00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:58,960 Speaker 3: you could have yogurt, you know. So I'd have something 696 00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:03,400 Speaker 3: like that, you know, no juices, nothing, nothing, sugar, nothing sugary, 697 00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:07,280 Speaker 3: nothing on match day. So I'd eat something like that, 698 00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:12,200 Speaker 3: some very light skimmed milk, maybe some no sugar on rice, 699 00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:16,840 Speaker 3: crispies or you know, or even brand flakes something like that, 700 00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:19,920 Speaker 3: and that would take me through till. Let me see, 701 00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:21,760 Speaker 3: so we're probably we're playing at three o'clock, so we 702 00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:23,480 Speaker 3: have to be eating by twelve. 703 00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:25,920 Speaker 4: And then you know, what would we have. 704 00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:30,000 Speaker 3: We'd all sit together and we'd have we'd have fish, 705 00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:33,120 Speaker 3: which we'd have steak, and you'd have rice, and you'd 706 00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:39,440 Speaker 3: have loads of like vegetables and water. Yeah, so you'd 707 00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:42,120 Speaker 3: eat that and then that just starts to release and 708 00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:45,280 Speaker 3: just go into your system. And then you're just topping 709 00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:46,040 Speaker 3: that up with water. 710 00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:48,120 Speaker 2: And then as three you are on the pitch and 711 00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:50,440 Speaker 2: you don't do nothing except water. 712 00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:53,360 Speaker 3: Water, and maybe one of those Lucas ad drinks to 713 00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:56,760 Speaker 3: give you a little bit of a sugary boost or stuff. 714 00:32:56,760 --> 00:33:00,000 Speaker 3: But like the main thing was to was to drink water. 715 00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:01,880 Speaker 3: I can't emphasize how important it. 716 00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:03,520 Speaker 2: Is to drink a lot. 717 00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:05,440 Speaker 4: Of Yeah, I try, I try. I still don't drink 718 00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:06,280 Speaker 4: as much as I should. 719 00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:09,480 Speaker 2: Now do you lose weight when you're when you're a football. 720 00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:14,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, but you're you're lean your trim because remember 721 00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:16,520 Speaker 3: you're doing all those that training, You're doing weights, you're 722 00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:18,280 Speaker 3: doing the gym, You're. 723 00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:21,000 Speaker 2: When do you do that every day? Every day? 724 00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:21,880 Speaker 4: Every day? 725 00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:24,360 Speaker 3: So when you go to training again, you have that 726 00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:28,160 Speaker 3: for your breakfast and then you're obviously you train from 727 00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:31,320 Speaker 3: ten thirty to maybe one o'clock two o'clock, depending on 728 00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:34,840 Speaker 3: what stage of the season it's at. You train really hard, 729 00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:37,320 Speaker 3: it's tough, tough, and then what happens is is that 730 00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:39,440 Speaker 3: you realize that if you're not eating right, you're not 731 00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:41,920 Speaker 3: taking the vitman's right. You will see that you are, 732 00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:47,200 Speaker 3: you're lagging behind the guys who are doing it religiously, to. 733 00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:48,960 Speaker 4: The point where again you go into a dressing. 734 00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:53,280 Speaker 3: Room rufie and you know it is very competitive, very competitive, 735 00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:55,600 Speaker 3: especially when you go into a dressing room where you're 736 00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:59,320 Speaker 3: trying to attain and achieve. Everybody there's the margins are 737 00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:03,080 Speaker 3: very small. Yeah, we'd practiced and we're trained to a 738 00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:06,160 Speaker 3: level where we say, well, they better be training as 739 00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:07,840 Speaker 3: hard as we are because if not, we are going 740 00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:08,960 Speaker 3: to destroy them. 741 00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:11,120 Speaker 4: And that is what we were striving for. 742 00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:16,200 Speaker 2: And when mister Benger's influence did that reach other teams, 743 00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:20,520 Speaker 2: something that everybody else what you eat was what you are. 744 00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:23,319 Speaker 3: Well, what happened, Ruthie is that when we started to 745 00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:25,640 Speaker 3: meet up with the guys when we went to England, 746 00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:28,319 Speaker 3: you know, to select players from our team and then 747 00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:31,000 Speaker 3: from Chelsea and from Liverpool and from Man United, and 748 00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:33,319 Speaker 3: when you all met up, they all wanted to know 749 00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:36,560 Speaker 3: what are you doing, what are you eating, what you're 750 00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:41,160 Speaker 3: taking because our physio at the time was it was 751 00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:43,319 Speaker 3: was our physio was the England physio as well, and 752 00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:45,960 Speaker 3: Alex Ferguson was quite upset about it because he didn't 753 00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:50,120 Speaker 3: like the fact that our physio knew what Man United 754 00:34:50,160 --> 00:34:53,319 Speaker 3: players were eating, what Chelsea and he knew what to 755 00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:56,239 Speaker 3: be able to tell some venger so that he was 756 00:34:56,280 --> 00:34:59,120 Speaker 3: really upset about that. But like, yeah, they you know, 757 00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:01,719 Speaker 3: you sit down around the dinner table and they'd see 758 00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:04,640 Speaker 3: us choosingly picking what we want because obviously we've got 759 00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:07,200 Speaker 3: our physio there, and he would make sure you eat that, 760 00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:08,680 Speaker 3: you eat that, you eat that, make sure you're not 761 00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:10,799 Speaker 3: eating that, this and that and you know what I mean. 762 00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:13,040 Speaker 3: They would say, why don't eat this and that? We 763 00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:13,879 Speaker 3: just eat this now. 764 00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:28,920 Speaker 2: The day I was starting with a friend of mine 765 00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:31,799 Speaker 2: who's an actor, and that there are actors who have 766 00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:35,080 Speaker 2: to gain a huge amount of weight for a part 767 00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:38,640 Speaker 2: or put on bulk. A friend of mine is going 768 00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:40,800 Speaker 2: to be in a Marvel movie this summer and he 769 00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:45,200 Speaker 2: has to eat eight thousand calories a day to bulk up. 770 00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:48,000 Speaker 2: You know, but it's so scientific, you know that. It's 771 00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:50,000 Speaker 2: not like you can have an ice cream Sunday, or 772 00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:52,680 Speaker 2: you can have whatever you can have, but it's nutrition 773 00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:56,680 Speaker 2: now has become a science. To be a doctor who 774 00:35:56,719 --> 00:35:59,720 Speaker 2: doesn't depend on whether you're fat within to be a teacher, 775 00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:03,759 Speaker 2: but an athlete and an actor are the two kind 776 00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:07,400 Speaker 2: of careers that actually will perhaps maybe an astronaut or whatever, 777 00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:11,240 Speaker 2: but that you you are dependent on actually training. 778 00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:14,880 Speaker 3: Yes, profit, discipline, roof to continue to do it because 779 00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:18,440 Speaker 3: you know, you see these these great actors. You do 780 00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:22,240 Speaker 3: that method and they starve themselves or like you mentioned, 781 00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:25,359 Speaker 3: they bolt themselves up and like the regime for that 782 00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:30,240 Speaker 3: is exactly what we do for nine months, because again 783 00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:34,360 Speaker 3: it's the margins of what you're trying to achieve. And 784 00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:36,080 Speaker 3: you know, I mean, like you mentioned, you know they've 785 00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:38,160 Speaker 3: got a bowl cup in eight thousand calories. I can't 786 00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:41,239 Speaker 3: even imagine, you know, trying to eat that much, but 787 00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:43,560 Speaker 3: you can imagine having to eat that much and not 788 00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:46,680 Speaker 3: slipping up and not feeling one day, I can't do 789 00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:47,320 Speaker 3: this today. 790 00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:50,359 Speaker 2: You have to have to and tell me what you're doing. Now, 791 00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:52,919 Speaker 2: tell me what is in right day? 792 00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:56,719 Speaker 3: Well, it depends, like when the season's on, you know, 793 00:36:57,080 --> 00:36:58,640 Speaker 3: it depends if you have to go and do much 794 00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:01,040 Speaker 3: of the day up in Manch, or you have to 795 00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:03,799 Speaker 3: go to Uxbridge to do the Premier League, or you 796 00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:05,280 Speaker 3: have to go and do the work with the brands 797 00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:08,240 Speaker 3: that I work with. You know, it's the typical days 798 00:37:08,239 --> 00:37:10,319 Speaker 3: like for instance, let's say I have to go to 799 00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:12,319 Speaker 3: do match of the day, so the car will come 800 00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:14,640 Speaker 3: and get you at eight o'clock. You've got all your 801 00:37:14,719 --> 00:37:16,440 Speaker 3: research stuff that you read on the way up in 802 00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:20,000 Speaker 3: the car. Then you get there and then you watch 803 00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:22,839 Speaker 3: the games and people see you on the TV at 804 00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:25,200 Speaker 3: ten thirty, and then you talk about everything. What you've 805 00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:27,560 Speaker 3: You've told the researchers. You want to go out there, 806 00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:29,640 Speaker 3: so then you do that. But it's a whole day. 807 00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:34,240 Speaker 3: And food, well, this is what I'm saying. With the food, 808 00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:38,400 Speaker 3: you're able to order, order something in and recently I 809 00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:40,239 Speaker 3: found a really good West Indian shop. 810 00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:41,759 Speaker 4: Funny enough up there. 811 00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:47,360 Speaker 3: I'll have that, or I'll have salad, some good vegetables, 812 00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:50,880 Speaker 3: some nice rice and stuff like that, some fish. 813 00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:52,719 Speaker 2: What about as a family, do you sit down? 814 00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:59,239 Speaker 3: No, absolutely that Lance would do the food. So we 815 00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:02,799 Speaker 3: probably eat in and around a six thirty ish, six 816 00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:04,560 Speaker 3: thirty seven ish, and you know what I mean, By 817 00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:06,720 Speaker 3: the time, it's all that way, we sit down around 818 00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:10,000 Speaker 3: the table and we eating. It's something where we get 819 00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:11,960 Speaker 3: to talk about what's going on, what's happening in school, 820 00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:14,359 Speaker 3: what you're doing, Why are you so moody today, why 821 00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:15,200 Speaker 3: are you so miserable? 822 00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:17,000 Speaker 4: What's going on? You know what I mean? And I 823 00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:17,839 Speaker 4: love it. 824 00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:20,879 Speaker 3: I love that, Yeah, I love that that we do 825 00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:23,800 Speaker 3: sit down and we eat now And I didn't realize 826 00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:26,560 Speaker 3: when I was younger, how important that was. But obviously 827 00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:28,600 Speaker 3: friends used to do that a lot, and you know 828 00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:30,359 Speaker 3: you took it for granted that that is something that 829 00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:31,239 Speaker 3: is a necessity. 830 00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:34,880 Speaker 2: So you've just described a family that sits together, eats together, 831 00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:39,640 Speaker 2: talks about their moods, talks about their emotions, asked questions 832 00:38:39,719 --> 00:38:42,400 Speaker 2: about what they're feeling. And that comes from not a 833 00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:45,400 Speaker 2: role model that you had growing up, but for something 834 00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:48,920 Speaker 2: that you announce you've created yourself. And tell me how 835 00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:49,839 Speaker 2: that journey is. 836 00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:53,880 Speaker 3: Well, that's something that I think back about it, Rufie, 837 00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:56,160 Speaker 3: and it makes me quite sad because I look at 838 00:38:56,200 --> 00:38:59,520 Speaker 3: obviously my mum, my relationship, I should say, with my 839 00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:01,759 Speaker 3: brothers and sisters, you know what I mean, we're if 840 00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:03,600 Speaker 3: we see each other, we see each other, try and speak, 841 00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:05,560 Speaker 3: you know, especially my brother Morris speaks to him a lot, 842 00:39:05,600 --> 00:39:07,080 Speaker 3: not so much with my brother Nicki, and I don't 843 00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:10,120 Speaker 3: speak to my sister Dion at all. You know, we 844 00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:14,960 Speaker 3: haven't got no connection to be together like that. Obviously, 845 00:39:15,040 --> 00:39:16,719 Speaker 3: I have to make a lot of efforts, even just 846 00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:18,879 Speaker 3: for my my brother, you know what I mean, even 847 00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:20,360 Speaker 3: he's got his card. The other day I said, now 848 00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:22,600 Speaker 3: you know, you know I'm busy, but just just come up, 849 00:39:22,680 --> 00:39:25,400 Speaker 3: come up and see us. But like, what I've learned 850 00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:29,560 Speaker 3: from it is how our communicative we are now and 851 00:39:29,560 --> 00:39:32,280 Speaker 3: how that would have helped us if we was younger, 852 00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:36,840 Speaker 3: if the emphasis was on sitting there and speaking about stuff, 853 00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:38,680 Speaker 3: I could have maybe told her about some of the 854 00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:42,719 Speaker 3: rubbish that was going through in respects of school and 855 00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:45,800 Speaker 3: teasing and free me. I don't know, but like now 856 00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:50,440 Speaker 3: we can sit there with the girls and you're able 857 00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:54,120 Speaker 3: to kind of like without them feeling like you're interrogating them. 858 00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:57,759 Speaker 3: You can ease out what's going on at school. And 859 00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:01,400 Speaker 3: my wife is unbelievable in respects of, you know, a 860 00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:03,920 Speaker 3: personality and how she's and how she grew up always 861 00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:06,719 Speaker 3: sitting together, you know, with each other. So you know 862 00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:10,160 Speaker 3: now that that is something that is ingrained. Now you 863 00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:13,200 Speaker 3: know it's something that we have to do that Now 864 00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:13,960 Speaker 3: you know what. 865 00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:17,640 Speaker 2: You're describing is something that you're doing for many many 866 00:40:17,719 --> 00:40:20,839 Speaker 2: young people who listen to you, who watch you, who 867 00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:24,959 Speaker 2: need your words and your social impact. As I said, 868 00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:27,680 Speaker 2: for the very very beginning from people the young people 869 00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:30,600 Speaker 2: who work in the restaurant. They're not easily impressed, I 870 00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:33,840 Speaker 2: have to say, but they really love it when you 871 00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:37,520 Speaker 2: come in when they see you and your kindness, and 872 00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:39,879 Speaker 2: I think it's a kind of inspiration with them. And 873 00:40:40,080 --> 00:40:43,520 Speaker 2: it goes to my next question, which is a comfort 874 00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:46,560 Speaker 2: to see someone who has achieved so much and is 875 00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:50,480 Speaker 2: still you know, talking two people who want to listen 876 00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:52,560 Speaker 2: to them. So, if I were going to ask you 877 00:40:52,600 --> 00:40:55,040 Speaker 2: as our last question before you go and have lunch, 878 00:40:55,719 --> 00:40:57,759 Speaker 2: is if you have a food that you do turn to, 879 00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:00,759 Speaker 2: not when you're hungry or you're tired, or you know, 880 00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:02,399 Speaker 2: I want to share it with your children, but something 881 00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:05,080 Speaker 2: that you personally ian want for comfort. What would you 882 00:41:05,120 --> 00:41:05,440 Speaker 2: go for. 883 00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:08,880 Speaker 3: At the moment with the like I mentioned naming this 884 00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:12,560 Speaker 3: earlier on but they recently, especially the last I'd say 885 00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:17,960 Speaker 3: eight nine months. Briefly, I'm like obsessed with fitter rolls 886 00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:19,200 Speaker 3: and cream. 887 00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:20,240 Speaker 4: I cannot stop. 888 00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:22,839 Speaker 2: Do you like to buy the ice cream inside. 889 00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:27,160 Speaker 3: And not cream inside with just just just double cream 890 00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:29,520 Speaker 3: or single cream and for me to just have in 891 00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:32,239 Speaker 3: the car which Nancy will hear about it now. I 892 00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:41,520 Speaker 3: buy those Cabres mini rolls with the raspberry and those 893 00:41:41,560 --> 00:41:45,640 Speaker 3: two at the moment, no matter how much have eaten, 894 00:41:45,719 --> 00:41:48,799 Speaker 3: if somebody offered me a mini roll, I'll take it 895 00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:53,239 Speaker 3: and if somebody like if if if we're having lunch 896 00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:55,360 Speaker 3: in one of the girls leave, I won't leave a 897 00:41:55,480 --> 00:41:58,640 Speaker 3: fitter roll on its own. It's like leaving a soldier behind. 898 00:41:59,800 --> 00:42:01,920 Speaker 3: If my girls don't eat it, I'll say, you can't 899 00:42:02,239 --> 00:42:05,239 Speaker 3: leave the soul. That is basically it. 900 00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:08,040 Speaker 2: I will remember that. Thank you so much for coming. 901 00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:11,360 Speaker 2: Thank you that's really nice. And what a great, great 902 00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:13,200 Speaker 2: hour we've had. And I hope we have many more 903 00:42:13,239 --> 00:42:15,239 Speaker 2: hours together. You know what, I'm going to ask you 904 00:42:15,239 --> 00:42:17,680 Speaker 2: a favor? Will you take me to a football game? 905 00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:20,200 Speaker 3: Absolutely, you've got to come. And you know what, it's 906 00:42:20,239 --> 00:42:21,640 Speaker 3: good because we're in the Champions League. 907 00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:23,520 Speaker 4: Weeeople want to come. I take you to the to 908 00:42:23,880 --> 00:42:25,280 Speaker 4: Arsenal Champions League. 909 00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:26,200 Speaker 2: Guy, I have covered. 910 00:42:31,120 --> 00:42:33,840 Speaker 1: The River Cafe Look Book is now available in bookshops 911 00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:38,040 Speaker 1: and online. It has over one hundred recipes, beautifully illustrated 912 00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:42,560 Speaker 1: with photographs from the renowned photographer Matthew Donaldson. The book 913 00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:46,480 Speaker 1: has fifty delicious and easy to prepare recipes, including a 914 00:42:46,520 --> 00:42:50,040 Speaker 1: host of River Cafe classics that have been specially adapted 915 00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:54,600 Speaker 1: for new cooks. The River Cafe Lookbook recipes for cooks 916 00:42:54,600 --> 00:43:02,480 Speaker 1: of all ages. Ruthie's Table four is a production of 917 00:43:02,560 --> 00:43:07,600 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio and Adamie Studios. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit 918 00:43:07,640 --> 00:43:11,640 Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to 919 00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:12,520 Speaker 1: your favorite shows.