Speaker 1: Hey, y'all, we're back.
Speaker 2: Did you miss us, because we missed you. It feels
Speaker 2: so good to be back with our friends. Tt I know, right,
Speaker 2: the show really didn't stop for us. We kept talking,
Speaker 2: but our mics were off.
Speaker 1: Now, some people would say that's a good thing, mainly
Speaker 1: my mom, but.
Speaker 2: Most of y'all have been in our dms and commenting
Speaker 2: on our Instagram posts, asking when the show is coming back,
Speaker 2: where we are, what's going on?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it really has been too long, So first let's
Speaker 1: catch you up with what's been going on with us.
Speaker 2: We've been traveling a lot, a lot, a lot, Cris
Speaker 2: crossing this globe, Australia, South Africa, Scotland, Switzerland.
Speaker 1: You've been going everywhere.
Speaker 2: I've been in Atlanta, I've been in the Atlanta Metro
Speaker 2: and if you've been on two eighty five, you know
Speaker 2: it feels like Chris crossing the globe. But we've also
Speaker 2: been working a lot, right, Yes, we have so many
Speaker 2: things that we're still working on right.
Speaker 1: A planetarium film that's gonna come out in the fall.
Speaker 1: We can't wait to tell y'all about that.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, y'all are gonna love it. I can't wait.
Speaker 1: I've been doing more filmmaking, so that's been a lot
Speaker 1: of fun.
Speaker 2: If you don't follow Zakia on Instagram, you have to.
Speaker 2: Her cinematography skills are a one. The storytelling is just
Speaker 2: chef's kiss.
Speaker 1: I'm doing my best. I'm doing my best. And not
Speaker 1: to bury the lead, but Titi had a baby oo cherl.
Speaker 2: Yes, I had a baby, y'all, tyson, a little boy.
Speaker 2: He's wonderful. But that was crazy. Can you believe they
Speaker 2: let me leave the hospital with a baby?
Speaker 1: Man? That is still shaking me to the core. That's crazy.
Speaker 1: I know.
Speaker 2: I'm still healing from that, and we're.
Speaker 1: Still healing collectively from missing y'all. Like that's been a
Speaker 1: real big thing for us.
Speaker 2: Yes, and it feels like we're the drama. I mean
Speaker 2: I think we're the drama because it feels like, is
Speaker 2: it ghosting force?
Speaker 1: Ghosting force ghosting me? So kind of Yes and no,
Speaker 1: But our heart was in the right place. We just
Speaker 1: had to get our stuff together. We had to, you know,
Speaker 1: come back with a new step to how did that
Speaker 1: song go? We shouldn't have left you without a alia,
Speaker 1: but we were thinking about everybody the whole way along,
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and with y'all in our minds while we were away.
Speaker 2: You know, this is all set and making us sound
Speaker 2: like f boys now like like future, very toxic behavior.
Speaker 1: Okay, now listen, I never am one to align myself
Speaker 1: with future, but I do think the upside of this
Speaker 1: is like that part where they say, you know, absence
Speaker 1: makes the heart grow fonder. But is that true? And
Speaker 1: who is they? I hate when somebody say they say,
Speaker 1: you know, they say, I don't know who they is,
Speaker 1: but I'm hoping it's true in this case. Okay, yes,
Speaker 1: I hope so too. I don't want our relationships to
Speaker 1: be damaged.
Speaker 2: Exactly, and relationships can be so complicated and time is
Speaker 2: a thief.
Speaker 1: Funny, there are some people whose absence actually made them
Speaker 1: dead to me, so yes, rip rih rest in hades.
Speaker 1: And I know we sound terrible, but we're not the
Speaker 1: only ones who are trying to figure out all this
Speaker 1: relationship stuff. Okay, we're gonna talk about that today. I'm
Speaker 1: TT and I'm Zachiah, and this is Dope Labs. Welcome
Speaker 1: to Dope Labs, a weekly podcast that mixes hardcore science
Speaker 1: with pop culture and a healthy dose of friendship. Let's
Speaker 1: jump into the recitation.
Speaker 2: Okay, so what do we know about relationships? Well, we
Speaker 2: know that relationships can be complicated, and we know that
Speaker 2: being with someone takes work. We also know that every
Speaker 2: relationship is different, so.
Speaker 1: What works for some won't work for all. But there
Speaker 1: are some foundational things that probably most healthy relationships have,
Speaker 1: you know, or they're built on, like honesty and Okay,
Speaker 1: so what do we want to know? M like, on
Speaker 1: the most basic, basic level, what is love? Because I
Speaker 1: feel like the term love is being so overused and
Speaker 1: we have certainly lost the plot.
Speaker 2: Yes, reality TV has really messed with our minds, like
Speaker 2: everybody's in love on these TV shows where they're with
Speaker 2: the people, they fill a house with twenty people, and
Speaker 2: that everybody's falling in love on day two. I don't
Speaker 2: feel like that's right.
Speaker 1: No, And if you find yourself running across the beach
Speaker 1: to separate the love of your life from whatever they
Speaker 1: got going on under those sheets, that's not love, baby,
Speaker 1: It's not love.
Speaker 2: It can't be. If it is, I don't want it.
Speaker 2: So what I want to know, Like, I want to
Speaker 2: go through the life cycle of a relationship and find
Speaker 2: out what is happening to our minds and bodies as
Speaker 2: we are going through these relationships.
Speaker 1: Yes, because love is not just in the heart. Okay,
Speaker 1: the brain is doing things. The body is doing things.
Speaker 1: And speaking of the brain doing things, some folks are
Speaker 1: refusing to date someone who hasn't been to therapy. Is
Speaker 1: that a cheat code or a no? No?
Speaker 2: That's a very good question. I want to know what
Speaker 2: are some of the breadcrumbs that let you know this
Speaker 2: is no good or you're on the right track.
Speaker 1: Mm, that's I like that. Guide me to the right way,
Speaker 1: don't don't make me go all the way to the end.
Speaker 1: If there's something I can see a longess, mays, I
Speaker 1: like to take a clue. Similarly, what makes a relationship last?
Speaker 1: And how do our feelings grow and change with time?
Speaker 1: And how is that tied to, like chemically, what's happening
Speaker 1: in our brains? Or is there something we need to
Speaker 1: be doing?
Speaker 2: And sometimes it's how do you make a relationship last?
Speaker 2: But it might also be when do you walk away?
Speaker 1: I think we have lots of questions, so let's jump
Speaker 1: into the dissection.
Speaker 2: Our guest today is poet and relationship expert Young Pueblo.
Speaker 2: If you haven't seen him on social media, you actually
Speaker 2: have your friends follow him, and if you don't follow him,
Speaker 2: you have absolutely come across his work. Young Pueblo's book
Speaker 2: is out and it's called How to Love Better, and
Speaker 2: we got an advanced copy, and let me tell y'all,
Speaker 2: it is good, very very good.
Speaker 1: Young Welcome to the show.
Speaker 3: Thank you both so much. I'm excited to be here.
Speaker 2: Our first question is a very baseline question, just to
Speaker 2: get everybody, you know, in the right mind frame. There
Speaker 2: have been neuroscientists that say that love is a biological
Speaker 2: necessity and we need it for our well being, like
Speaker 2: we need water, and like we need food and exercise.
Speaker 2: But we want to know what is your definition of love?
Speaker 3: Oh that's interesting. I love hearing that connotation because immediately
Speaker 3: it made me think about love coming from community, coming
Speaker 3: from friendship, or coming from partnership. Because it is essential,
Speaker 3: but it comes in a lot of different forms. I
Speaker 3: think to me, love is something that you not only
Speaker 3: feel profoundly internally, but it motivates you and like activates
Speaker 3: your wanting to learn how to care for a person.
Speaker 1: And I think it's quite the contrast to a lot
Speaker 1: of the love that we're seeing everywhere for consumption, you know,
Speaker 1: fact one of the things that we're often talking about.
Speaker 1: It's just how much we see love in just like
Speaker 1: reality TV or notions of love, and how that might
Speaker 1: be coloring our perception. So we know that more than
Speaker 1: like three million people are tuned into every episode of
Speaker 1: The Bachelor, it's like most recent season. Why when we
Speaker 1: look at those couples that come from these shows, not
Speaker 1: very many are going the distance. You know, even the
Speaker 1: Golden Bachelor at his big age struggled. Okay, we'll say struggled.
Speaker 1: And so I'm curious, do you think we've sensationalized love
Speaker 1: as a society. Do you think these shows are useful
Speaker 1: when we start thinking about how we think about love.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean the shows are useful in that they're
Speaker 3: fun to watch, but they're not like what we should
Speaker 3: be striving for or learning from necessarily. I think. You know,
Speaker 3: for a lot of us, especially those of us that
Speaker 3: grew up watching TV in the seventies, eighties, nineties, and
Speaker 3: early two thousands, we were fed a very specific idea
Speaker 3: of relationships that really affected our conditioning. You know, this
Speaker 3: idea of like you meet someone, you feel very strongly
Speaker 3: for them, you have one struggle, and you overcome that
Speaker 3: struggle and then you're together happily ever after, And that
Speaker 3: is just completely untrue. When you're in a relationship, you're
Speaker 3: basically doubling down on your own personal growth and understanding
Speaker 3: that just the way that you have ups and downs
Speaker 3: as an individual, you're going to have ups and downs
Speaker 3: in a relationship.
Speaker 2: We live in a time where everything can happen in
Speaker 2: an instant. You need groceries, it'll be at your door
Speaker 2: in thirty minutes, food ten seconds to drive to the
Speaker 2: next window, need a ride, a lift will be at
Speaker 2: your door in two minutes.
Speaker 1: And all this convenience is really messing with our brains
Speaker 1: in that same instant gratification at all times, and that
Speaker 1: just isn't realistic when you're dealing with your partner. And
Speaker 1: that's right.
Speaker 2: If you have a disagreement, it may not be resolved instantly.
Speaker 3: All these things are geared towards speed, and you know
Speaker 3: these quick dopamine hits, but like in reality, what is
Speaker 3: life like? It takes time to build something beautiful and
Speaker 3: that's hard.
Speaker 2: I love that you talk about dopamine because we did
Speaker 2: a lot of research on the neuroscience about what happens
Speaker 2: when we're first.
Speaker 3: Following in Love Andruck.
Speaker 2: All of that, and it's because our brain's reward system,
Speaker 2: which is located in the middle of our brains, is activated,
Speaker 2: and this even shows up in fMRIs. So they did
Speaker 2: a study where they showed folks pictures of people that
Speaker 2: they love, their romantic partners, and two key areas of
Speaker 2: the brain lit up like a Christmas tree. And those
Speaker 2: areas of the brain release hormones like oxytocin and adrenaline,
Speaker 2: and that gives you your euphoric feeling. And then you
Speaker 2: also talked about dopamine, which is also released and it's
Speaker 2: another feel good hormone. You talk about your relationship with
Speaker 2: your wife as an example in the book. Throughout the book,
Speaker 2: Can you talk us through what it felt like for
Speaker 2: you and at the very beginning and how it changed
Speaker 2: when things got tough.
Speaker 3: I think in the very very beginning it almost felt
Speaker 3: ethereal in like the magnetic pull that we felt towards
Speaker 3: each other, and it felt so enlivening that I was
Speaker 3: finally speaking to someone where I didn't necessarily have to
Speaker 3: put my guard up and was just like, wasn't performing,
Speaker 3: was just you know, able to be myself. But then
Speaker 3: that opened up. Honestly, what felt like six years of
Speaker 3: being together on and off that felt like a hurricane
Speaker 3: because we just did not know how to care for each.
Speaker 1: Other, something that we've both talked about in a previous
Speaker 1: episode where we talk about platonic reallyfelationships, but also when
Speaker 1: romantic relationships, when you have that high, as soon as
Speaker 1: anything happens, you have a bad feeling. I'm curious, how
Speaker 1: have you and your wife settled into your version of
Speaker 1: compassionate love and do you think there are things we
Speaker 1: should all be aware of, like in this stage to
Speaker 1: keep your relationship healthy and compassionate.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's interesting I think what we've sort of settled
Speaker 3: into because in the beginning it was sort of the
Speaker 3: chaos of not knowing how to care for each other
Speaker 3: combined with the craving for perfection wanted the relationship to
Speaker 3: be exciting and fun all of the time. And now
Speaker 3: what we have it's just this deep understanding that that
Speaker 3: there are going to be ups and downs and that
Speaker 3: we don't need to fight those ups and downs, and
Speaker 3: if anything, what we need to do is we need
Speaker 3: to just properly inform each other about how we feel
Speaker 3: so that the other person knows that it's time to
Speaker 3: step up and support you if you're feeling down or whatnot.
Speaker 2: With all of those good hormones that we get, we
Speaker 2: also get some of the not so great hormones that
Speaker 2: raise our anxiety and stress, like cortisol, and when those
Speaker 2: go up, we have higher stress levels, just like you
Speaker 2: were talking about in anxiety, and you describ being able
Speaker 2: to just talk to your partner about that anxiety is
Speaker 2: such a great step in the compassion that you feel
Speaker 2: for one another. You talk about that a lot in
Speaker 2: your book, and there was a really amazing quote that
Speaker 2: we both loved, and you said, a relationship is not
Speaker 2: an escape. It is a deep form of arrival, one
Speaker 2: where if you want to succeed, you'll have to face
Speaker 2: yourself with great honesty and give your partner a high
Speaker 2: level of presence so you can keep feeding the connection
Speaker 2: the two of you have. Can you talk more about
Speaker 2: that presence and what that means and how people can
Speaker 2: show up for one another.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's really interesting. I've been really thinking lately about
Speaker 3: the connection between the presence that you're able to give
Speaker 3: another person and how that's really coming from the presence
Speaker 3: that you're able to give yourself as you're moving through
Speaker 3: your wide spectrum of emotions. So very often, like if
Speaker 3: we're feeling good, we enjoy feeling good. But if we're
Speaker 3: not feeling good, we run and we either run into
Speaker 3: our phone, run into another TV show, you know, just
Speaker 3: doing something to distract ourselves from feeling whatever's happening inside.
Speaker 3: I used to be so afraid of my own anxiety,
Speaker 3: so afraid of my own sadness that you know, I
Speaker 3: was just like I was on a mission to run
Speaker 3: away from whenever I would feel those things. But now
Speaker 3: as I've been able to sort of just you know,
Speaker 3: have that resilience, that strength to just feel those emotions.
Speaker 1: I think it's really interesting taking your work and kind
Speaker 1: of using it to I don't know how you feel
Speaker 1: about this, but I almost want to say using it
Speaker 1: as a shield against some of the things that we
Speaker 1: are consuming all the time. You know. I feel like
Speaker 1: I don't know if this is what I was clicking
Speaker 1: on or how my algorithm changed, but I feel like
Speaker 1: I was getting a lot of things in the algorithm
Speaker 1: that say, like, if your partner does this, they're a narcissist.
Speaker 1: If your partner doesn't do these things, you know, it
Speaker 1: was a lot of outward facing about the other person.
Speaker 1: We talk a lot about self awareness and self work,
Speaker 1: and I think so often we have this mindset of,
Speaker 1: like you said, convenience and shopping for the perfect partner
Speaker 1: and what quality should they have and they need to
Speaker 1: bring this to the table and I'm popping the balloon
Speaker 1: if they're not six feet and just all of these
Speaker 1: things right, And I would love for you to talk
Speaker 1: a little bit more about how self work feeds into
Speaker 1: a healthy relationship.
Speaker 3: Oh, it's everything. I think. You know, when people look
Speaker 3: at like, you know, what's a real good green flag?
Speaker 3: And I think probably the biggest, most important one as
Speaker 3: they have the humility to keep growing as an individual.
Speaker 3: Because when you show up to a relationship like, no
Speaker 3: one shows up perfect. Everyone has past pain, like something
Speaker 3: they went through, whether they experienced trauma or not, something
Speaker 3: heavy happened, There was some sort of loss, some sort
Speaker 3: of hurt, and that impacts your present moment Like that
Speaker 3: is not only impacting your perception, but it's also impacting
Speaker 3: how you react to the moment. So understanding that you're
Speaker 3: both going to have things that you work through together
Speaker 3: and as individuals, I think that just increases the possibility
Speaker 3: for success in a relationship. Life is hard, and if
Speaker 3: you choose not to grow, life is even harder.
Speaker 1: Remember when we talked about attachment styles on the episode
Speaker 1: with doctor Franco.
Speaker 2: Yes, that's when I realized, I'm so like Sious.
Speaker 1: I know you from the DMV. Just like guy.
Speaker 2: He would be so proud, hometown hero.
Speaker 1: That's right.
Speaker 2: As you say in your book, attachment is the enemy
Speaker 2: of love.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the type of attachment that I'm talking about is
Speaker 3: the old school attachment is like what the Buddha referred
Speaker 3: to as one of the causes of misery, and we're
Speaker 3: talking about like, when I think of attachment, it's attachment
Speaker 3: towards things existing in a very particular way, like the
Speaker 3: craving for things to exist in a very particular way
Speaker 3: that makes human beings very rigid. And if you have
Speaker 3: those attachments in your mind, they will manifest through your
Speaker 3: actions as control where you want these people in your
Speaker 3: life to exist and think and act in very certain ways,
Speaker 3: and you never want the good things to go away,
Speaker 3: and you're just basically clinging to the things that you
Speaker 3: like and very intensely pushing away the things that you
Speaker 3: don't like. And I think living like that makes life
Speaker 3: really hard because we're living in this giant river that's
Speaker 3: moving forward, and if you fight that, life is going
Speaker 3: to hurt. Life is going to suck, Like it's going
Speaker 3: to be really, really tough. So instead of fighting the change,
Speaker 3: our only option is to embrace change and work with it.
Speaker 3: What I can control. I do my best to have
Speaker 3: presents in the good moments, Like, for example, I just
Speaker 3: got to spend a beautiful time celebrating my father's birthday yesterday,
Speaker 3: and I was so grateful. I'm like, Okay, I'm so
Speaker 3: happy to be there, But I also know that, like
Speaker 3: he's not going to be around for the rest of
Speaker 3: my life forever, you know, Like so that makes it's
Speaker 3: simultaneously sad, but it also is inspiring me to have
Speaker 3: more presence when I'm with him, and to hug him
Speaker 3: more and to tell him that I love him, because like,
Speaker 3: change is going to happen at some point and you know,
Speaker 3: one of us won't be around and I can't necessarily
Speaker 3: fight that, but that does help me better show up
Speaker 3: in the moment.
Speaker 2: But talking about how things come to an end, you know,
Speaker 2: with romantic relationships breaking up, as we know is a
Speaker 2: very hard thing, and it can really we feel like
Speaker 2: a freight train is coming towards you, and you can
Speaker 2: feel a lot of anxiety around that. Folks describe breakups
Speaker 2: with having headaches and feeling a crushing sensation and a pain,
Speaker 2: like an actual physical pain that can last a little
Speaker 2: bit or a long time. How do we know when
Speaker 2: it's time to break up?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I love that you're pointing out too,
Speaker 3: tt like how big breakups are, and like, I think
Speaker 3: we don't often realize how much they shape our minds.
Speaker 3: Like those big, big breakups, they really affect our mental conditioning,
Speaker 3: and they affect how we see the present, like we'll
Speaker 3: look at it through the lens of the past. I
Speaker 3: think in terms of like signs of when it's time
Speaker 3: to break up, I think probably the clearest one is relationships.
Speaker 3: It's natural for them to go through ups and downs.
Speaker 3: But let's say you're in a relationship and you're just
Speaker 3: going from one down moment to another down moment to
Speaker 3: another down moment, and there's very little joy, there's constant struggle,
Speaker 3: there's you know, sort of like endless arguments, and you're
Speaker 3: not even really having fun anymore. You're just kind of
Speaker 3: irritable and it's in the back of your mind and
Speaker 3: you just don't want to be honest with it. Yet.
Speaker 3: What I like to write about too, is like, when
Speaker 3: you know, don't let it drag on. I've seen this
Speaker 3: happen with people often, where you know they know they
Speaker 3: want to break up with somebody, but it still takes
Speaker 3: them like six months to get it done. And that's
Speaker 3: hard because you're misusing that person's time and you're misusing
Speaker 3: your own time. So I think being aware, like if
Speaker 3: you're constantly moving from down moment to down moment, then
Speaker 3: there's something for you to assess, like are you really
Speaker 3: right for each other.
Speaker 1: I do have a question from a friend because I
Speaker 1: told her, I said, hey, we're interviewing young Poiblo, and
Speaker 1: I had already given her clarity and connection and so
Speaker 1: she said, cool, Why wouldn't you have told me this
Speaker 1: earlier on? I said, because you would have given me
Speaker 1: twenty questions and so that's not a possibility. You know.
Speaker 1: One of the things that we've wanted from you is
Speaker 1: some tips on getting over a breakup. And so I
Speaker 1: have a friend that's going through a really big breakup,
Speaker 1: but divorce and She told me that she really wanted
Speaker 1: to know how you still believe in love and if
Speaker 1: it gets harder or easier the older you get and
Speaker 1: the more you have these experiences.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's hard to especially, I mean so much love
Speaker 3: to your friend too, because that's that's a big one
Speaker 3: when people go through the divorces, and that can like
Speaker 3: really shake the framework of your mind and how you
Speaker 3: see the world. And I see this a lot, you know,
Speaker 3: like when I post things about relationships and people commented, well,
Speaker 3: there's no there's no good men out there. Well, yeah,
Speaker 3: I mean some. I'm sure some of the ones that
Speaker 3: you came across were not good, but like, there definitely are,
Speaker 3: Like I know a bunch of great guys who are
Speaker 3: in good relationships and are healthy relationships.
Speaker 2: And drop their names in the chat.
Speaker 3: Yeah, here are their numbers. Yeah, this is where they live.
Speaker 3: I think love is definitely possible. I think, especially when
Speaker 3: you're like coming out of a divorce, this is one
Speaker 3: of those moments where it's a big realization moment that
Speaker 3: you should not be postponing your happiness, Like your greatest
Speaker 3: happiness is not necessarily going to like come from a
Speaker 3: relationship your partner. They should add to your happiness, but
Speaker 3: your happiness is really coming from within.
Speaker 1: You preach a quarter though, that is a word.
Speaker 3: And I think it's it's challenging because like people want
Speaker 3: to lose hope for love, but I think it's definitely possible.
Speaker 3: But I don't think that you should be waiting for
Speaker 3: love to be happy. I feel like that's a big mistake.
Speaker 3: It's especially if you're just coming out a divorce, Like,
Speaker 3: this is the time for you to design your life.
Speaker 3: This is the time for you to like make the
Speaker 3: most beautiful chapter of your life happen. This is your renaissance.
Speaker 3: This is like your rebirth moments. So use it, make
Speaker 3: best use of it, because then that inner glow, like
Speaker 3: as you cultivated and as you keep seeing, like what
Speaker 3: is it like, how can I be a better friend
Speaker 3: to myself? What do I need to give to myself
Speaker 3: so that I can really shine? Other people are gonna
Speaker 3: feel that, and then the right person may come along
Speaker 3: who also has that similar quality that they take good
Speaker 3: care of themselves, and then you can make something beautiful together.
Speaker 3: But no matter what phase of life you're in, you
Speaker 3: should never be postponing your happiness. You should try to
Speaker 3: cultivate that happiness now and then maybe somebody great will
Speaker 3: come along.
Speaker 2: At the end of your book, you run through some
Speaker 2: red flags and some green flags, and so we wanted
Speaker 2: to just throw some scenarios at you and hear whether
Speaker 2: or not you feel like it's a red flag or
Speaker 2: a green flag, or you can give it a yellow
Speaker 2: flag if you feel like it's not either or kid
Speaker 2: you want to kick it off.
Speaker 1: Okay, I think and this is something I've seen happen
Speaker 1: for real. I don't know if you remember, like the
Speaker 1: conversation where people say, oh, when you go into somebody's house,
Speaker 1: like what are you looking for on their bookshelf or
Speaker 1: something like that. Now, sometimes you see great things. You
Speaker 1: can see all about love. You might see clarity and connection.
Speaker 1: You might see all your favorites. Okay, but when you
Speaker 1: open it up, there's nothing highlighted, there's no notes, it's fresh,
Speaker 1: it's crisp. When they are aesthetics only did they read
Speaker 1: it or are they doing it for the GRAM? We
Speaker 1: don't know. Red flag, green flag, yellow flag.
Speaker 3: You know it's so funny because you two are vicious readers,
Speaker 3: like you're both PhDs, and you know I know that
Speaker 3: you know how to crush bugs. I think the other
Speaker 3: thing too, is like you want to like check to
Speaker 3: see where I have a stack of books that are
Speaker 3: my favorites that I've read and other ones that are
Speaker 3: waiting that are like on deck. So there's that clarity
Speaker 3: you want to kind of develop. So to me, it's
Speaker 3: like a yellow flag if everything is just like kind
Speaker 3: of like designed and picture perfect and you don't really
Speaker 3: like are they there to help cultivate your mind? But
Speaker 3: I think I would ask, like I always lean towards asking,
Speaker 3: like tell me more like which ones which which one
Speaker 3: of these books has really shaped your mind?
Speaker 1: And why pop quiz baby?
Speaker 2: We're going to have a book club right now. Something
Speaker 2: that I've seen on social media where people have done
Speaker 2: all these think pieces. It on TikTok and Instagram, and
Speaker 2: some folks say, if I am going on a date
Speaker 2: with somebody, I'm going to ask them if they have
Speaker 2: ever gone to therapy and if they say no, that's
Speaker 2: a deal breaker for me. Is someone never having gone
Speaker 2: to therapy or not having a desire to go to
Speaker 2: therapy at all a red flag?
Speaker 1: A yellow flag? Green flag?
Speaker 3: I would say, like almost like yellow green, you know,
Speaker 3: it's like It's not necessarily a red flag like that,
Speaker 3: because even you can go to therapy and what if
Speaker 3: you get one of those therapists is just like, oh,
Speaker 3: you're fine, you know, it's the other person's fault and listen, Like,
Speaker 3: not all therapists are going to be great. There's definitely
Speaker 3: some great ones. I've seen therapists change people's lives for
Speaker 3: the better in my circle. So I'm very supportive of therapy,
Speaker 3: but you got to make sure you work with someone
Speaker 3: who's not just a yes person. And the other end
Speaker 3: of that is some of the dopest people that are
Speaker 3: so self aware that I know are like painters and
Speaker 3: artists and like people who are always in nature and
Speaker 3: like that's just the way that they reflect and they
Speaker 3: heal themselves. So if they have some sort of practice that,
Speaker 3: you know, whether it's like meditating or art or where
Speaker 3: they're just like not scared to reflect on themselves, then
Speaker 3: to me, that's a big green flag.
Speaker 1: These are fun, okay, And this is also I have
Speaker 1: my own thoughts about this, so I can't wait to hear. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they tell their friends all about y'all's relationship. What color
Speaker 1: flag are you giving that.
Speaker 3: One all about? Is too much. What do you mean,
Speaker 3: like everything, everything, everything? Oh, I don't know. Then, No,
Speaker 3: I think something's you know, it's funny because after you've
Speaker 3: been with somebody for so long, you know, you start
Speaker 3: feeling like like there are things that go down in
Speaker 3: not just like in our relationship, but like, let's say
Speaker 3: something really private that happens to one of our siblings
Speaker 3: or something that I know that they want people to
Speaker 3: not hear, and I think, out of respect, you kind
Speaker 3: of just keep it in the tightest circle. And my
Speaker 3: best friends like they're similar to that. We tell each
Speaker 3: other a lot, and it might be ninety five percent
Speaker 3: like a lot because there's so much trust there. But
Speaker 3: I don't think it's everything, you know, So I think
Speaker 3: that would be like a very heavy orange. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I can get behind that. Yeah, same.
Speaker 2: Okay, So in arguments, when they're arguing with their partner,
Speaker 2: they kind of shut down, but it's because they need
Speaker 2: to take time to go think and then come back later.
Speaker 2: So you know, the partner may want to keep talking
Speaker 2: or keep the argument going, but they're like I've had enough.
Speaker 2: They remove themselves, but they come back later to finish it.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I think that's honestly a green flag that is
Speaker 3: not respected enough, and I also didn't. Our argument styles
Speaker 3: were different between my wife and I, where I was
Speaker 3: like always trying to just like keep it going, let's finish,
Speaker 3: let's get over it as fast as possible, and she
Speaker 3: needed to move more slowly through it, and honestly she
Speaker 3: was right, Like, I think part of the power of
Speaker 3: the pause is you're trying to figure out like am
Speaker 3: I just being defensive? Am I just trying to win?
Speaker 3: Or am I actually trying to help resolve this situation?
Speaker 3: And usually the pause kind of makes you snap out
Speaker 3: of your own like irate mentality.
Speaker 2: I love that the power of the pause and not
Speaker 2: the pause.
Speaker 1: Okay, here's the next one we have. I feel like
Speaker 1: people sometimes you see people that are in a relationship
Speaker 1: and it feels like one person is putting the other
Speaker 1: person on a pedestal and they're saying like, Oh, I
Speaker 1: just don't deserve him, or oh she's so great, I
Speaker 1: don't deserve her. People that feel like they don't deserve
Speaker 1: the other person. Now, sometimes that's just you know, fluff,
Speaker 1: But people that really feel like they don't deserve the
Speaker 1: other person. What kind of flag we have going on there?
Speaker 3: I think that's strange too. Honestly, I'm with you too,
Speaker 3: Like I feel like one thing that I love love
Speaker 3: about my really close friends and my wife is that
Speaker 3: they're not that impressed by me. They're not like they're
Speaker 3: like whatever. He says some smart stuff, and he says
Speaker 3: some dumb stuff too, and I think that's just like
Speaker 3: the best thing is like having a circle that just
Speaker 3: keeps it real with you and they honor you when
Speaker 3: it's time to honor you, Like, I think there's some
Speaker 3: some lack of I don't know worth in there, and
Speaker 3: as opposed to having that framework, I think it's better
Speaker 3: to be like, I'm just so grateful to be with
Speaker 3: this person. This person is dope. You know, they're amazing,
Speaker 3: and but you're both equally amazing.
Speaker 2: There was a man who was like basically told me
Speaker 2: I had my life two together for.
Speaker 1: Us to pursue anything.
Speaker 2: And I was like, like me, I was a mess.
Speaker 2: I was in graduate school. I was like, I'm a mess.
Speaker 2: He's like, oh, you're so smart, and you know you
Speaker 2: have I don't think that this would work. And I
Speaker 2: was like, first of all, you're jumping the gun because
Speaker 2: I wasn't going to be your girlfriend. Just having a
Speaker 2: good time. So yeah, I totally, I totally understand what
Speaker 2: you're saying. There's something that gen Z says a lot,
Speaker 2: but I want to know your thoughts. They say that
Speaker 2: if someone double texts you, like sends two text messages
Speaker 2: back to back, that that's a red flag. Like that's
Speaker 2: they're like, oh, that person is I don't even know
Speaker 2: the right word that they use. From our generation, they
Speaker 2: would say that person is thirsty or you know, they're
Speaker 2: doing too much.
Speaker 3: I think I'm really careful with those like those. That's
Speaker 3: a big, big, like blanket statement that just doesn't work
Speaker 3: in all contexts. I think some people just like, I
Speaker 3: don't know, I'm I'm usually if when I text you,
Speaker 3: I'll send like three or four blue lines, like you know,
Speaker 3: it's not just like one text. It's like I'll just
Speaker 3: send out whatever I'm thinking, and I just I don't know.
Speaker 3: I feel like one thing that I really don't like
Speaker 3: about current dating culture is that everyone is being COI right,
Speaker 3: everyone is kind of like hiding their cars and they're
Speaker 3: just like, I don't want to you know, I don't
Speaker 3: want to tell you that I like you because I'm afraid.
Speaker 3: But it's like you know it's time for clarity. It's
Speaker 3: time for clarity. Just like if I'm really feeling you,
Speaker 3: I need to tell you that I'm feeling you so
Speaker 3: that we can see if something can happen.
Speaker 2: My friend always says, play it cool. Have you left
Speaker 2: out in the cold? Oh? Right, I need you to
Speaker 2: be thirsty, honey, I need you to get parched for me. Okay,
Speaker 2: I don't need you playing coy. I want you to
Speaker 2: be triple tech.
Speaker 1: Right. And TT and I have spent a lot of
Speaker 1: time together over the years, Okay, and I feel like
Speaker 1: at the end of the night, TT will say like, oh,
Speaker 1: this person definitely liked you, and I'm like, baby, they
Speaker 1: didn't say a word. They didn't. I'm not reading your
Speaker 1: hand signal, the degree you turned your shoulders to the side.
Speaker 1: I'm not reading any of that stuff. And in text messages,
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to read between you sent one line.
Speaker 1: First of all, I don't even like big blocks of text,
Speaker 1: So I'm sending you four to five messages.
Speaker 2: Damn, We're sending voice notes, we're sending video over sending memes,
Speaker 2: we're sending links, so I.
Speaker 3: Can't identify the voice notes. Have added a whole nother element.
Speaker 3: Like I feel like I'm listening to my friends like
Speaker 3: mini podcasts. I have to like find a moment to
Speaker 3: listen to like a four minute voice voice.
Speaker 2: No, okay, So I think this is our last one.
Speaker 1: And it is that.
Speaker 2: A person hasn't ever been in a long term relationship,
Speaker 2: like more than three months.
Speaker 3: I don't know, I would say that's like green to yellow,
Speaker 3: Like I don't think that's that wild per se. I
Speaker 3: feel like a lot of that is cultural. People are
Speaker 3: just so like anti commitment, and I think a lot
Speaker 3: of it is because people are looking for marginal improvements.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: It's like you're with someone and then you want the
Speaker 3: relationship to be like two percent better, so you let
Speaker 3: go something great. You literally will let go something great
Speaker 3: for the chance that's something better, and it just doesn't
Speaker 3: always work out. So people are constantly, like you know,
Speaker 3: in these I don't know, like six week situationships, they're
Speaker 3: dating someone for a little bit and then they don't
Speaker 3: even have enough time to really build a full relationship.
Speaker 3: So I don't know if that's necessarily the individual's problem.
Speaker 3: And a lot of people just like I don't know,
Speaker 3: they don't they don't want the nonsense. They like, want
Speaker 3: someone who's serious and they want commitments, so they're they're
Speaker 3: fine with holding out because they're really fulfilled in and
Speaker 3: of themselves. And it's just like if someone's dope and
Speaker 3: they really want to commit, they're ready for that. But
Speaker 3: other than that, they don't want to play games.
Speaker 2: That's a complete different perspective. I think when people look
Speaker 2: and they're like, oh, that means they're afraid of commitment. No,
Speaker 2: maybe they aren't afraid of commitment and they just know
Speaker 2: that they don't want to be committed to that person.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yes, yeah, I definitely wouldn't write someone off for that.
Speaker 3: If anything, I would be intrigued. I would be like,
Speaker 3: what's going on here? How are you that strong? Like, what's.
Speaker 1: Before you leave the lab? We need your benediction, your
Speaker 1: parting shot. You know, is there a message you think
Speaker 1: we all need to hear?
Speaker 3: Yeah. I really feel like a foundational piece of the
Speaker 3: art of arguing. Like when you're having an argument with
Speaker 3: your partner one, you're not trying to win, You're trying
Speaker 3: to understand. And that is big because we get so
Speaker 3: quickly defensive in an argument and both people are trying
Speaker 3: to dominate the narrative, both people are trying to sort
Speaker 3: of dominate like who's right and who's wrong. Granted, there
Speaker 3: will probably be times where someone definitely needs to apologize,
Speaker 3: but usually there's a backstory something happened, and if you
Speaker 3: really care for your partner, and you remind yourself like,
Speaker 3: this is not my enemy, this is like the person
Speaker 3: that I love, my roommate, and let's take turns listening
Speaker 3: to each other selflessly. It's just like this Buddhist monk
Speaker 3: tiknat Hans said, love is understanding, and that quote is
Speaker 3: so true. So it's not about winning in arguments. You
Speaker 3: just you know, you're trying to understand how things happen,
Speaker 3: and when you really understand each other, the tension just
Speaker 3: fizzles out and you're like, oh, I see what's happening.
Speaker 2: Yes, I really loved this episode as our first episode
Speaker 2: back because relationships platonic or romantic can be complicated, and
Speaker 2: I feel like we have a lot of tools now
Speaker 2: that we need to continue our healthy relationship with our friends.
Speaker 2: We talked about the power of the pause, right Zie,
Speaker 2: and our pause was a little long, and I think
Speaker 2: that us coming back to the relationship, we're even stronger
Speaker 2: now you know. I don't know if absence made the
Speaker 2: heart grow fonder with y'all, but it definitely did for us.
Speaker 1: If it made it grow fonder, drop us a heart.
Speaker 1: We want to see it, We want to feel the love.
Speaker 2: Yes, show us you love us, we made you. We're sorry. Okay, Yes,
Speaker 2: we're standing outside your windows with a boombox.
Speaker 1: You can find Young Pueblo on Instagram at y u
Speaker 1: n G Underscore Pueblo.
Speaker 2: You can find us on X and Instagram at Dope
Speaker 2: Lab Podcast.
Speaker 1: Tt Is on X and Instagram at dr Underscore t s.
Speaker 2: H O, and you can find Zakiya at Z said So.
Speaker 1: Dope Labs is a production of Lemonada Media.
Speaker 2: Our senior supervising producer is Kristin Lapour and our associate
Speaker 2: producer is Issara Savez.
Speaker 1: Dope Labs is sound designed, edited and mixed by James
Speaker 1: farber Lamanada Media's Vice President of Partnerships and Production is
Speaker 1: Jackie Danziger. Executive producer from iHeart Podcast is Katrina Norvill.
Speaker 1: Marketing lead is Alison Kanter. Original music composed and produced
Speaker 1: by Taka Yasuzawa and Alex sugi Ura, with additional music
Speaker 1: by Elijah Harvey. Dope Labs is executive produced by us
Speaker 1: T T Show, Dia and Zakiah Wattley.
Speaker 2: Two