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Speaker 1: M h. Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast,

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Speaker 1: a weekly conversation about mental health, personal development, and all

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Speaker 1: the small decisions we can make to become the best

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Speaker 1: possible versions of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr Joy hard

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Speaker 1: and Bradford, a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more

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Speaker 1: information or to find a therapist in your area, visit

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Speaker 1: our website at Therapy for Black Girls dot com. While

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Speaker 1: I hope you love listening to and learning from the podcast,

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Speaker 1: it is not meant to be a substitute for relationship

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Speaker 1: with a licensed mental health professional. Hey y'all, thanks so

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Speaker 1: much for joining me for Session too oh four of

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Speaker 1: the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast. We'll get into the

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Speaker 1: episode right after a word from our sponsors. Our relationships

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Speaker 1: to our bodies can often be complicated. Messages we get

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Speaker 1: from society, family, and the media often leave us frustrated

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Speaker 1: with our bodies and can lead to unrealistic expectations. To

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Speaker 1: help us get a little clarity in this area, today,

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Speaker 1: we're joined by Paula Edwards gay Field. Paula is regional

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Speaker 1: assistant vice president at the Renfrew Centers and holds licenses

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Speaker 1: as a counselor and supervisor in both Oklahoma and North Carolina.

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Speaker 1: She's a certified Eating disorder specialist and approved supervisor and

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Speaker 1: is a co chair of the African American Eating Disorder

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Speaker 1: Professionals Committee. Paula and I chatted about how our perceptions

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Speaker 1: of our bodies are formed, how those perceptions have been

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Speaker 1: shaped during the pandemic, what it looks like to have

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Speaker 1: a more connected relationship to our bodies, developing healthy ideas

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Speaker 1: about nutrition, and she shares some of her favorite resources.

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Speaker 1: If there's something that resonates with you while enjoying our conversation,

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Speaker 1: please be sure to share with us on social media

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Speaker 1: using the hashtag tv G. In session here's our conversation.

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Speaker 1: But thank you so much for joining us today. Paula,

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Speaker 1: thank you, thank you. I appreciate being here. Yeah. So

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Speaker 1: in session one sixty five of the podcast, we had

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Speaker 1: your colleague Dr Brooks on just to talk about like

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Speaker 1: how the pandemic has triggered disordered eating for people, and

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Speaker 1: here we are a year later, almost a year later,

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Speaker 1: and so that commentary around like our bodies and eating

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Speaker 1: and what people have done to kind of manage themselves

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Speaker 1: throughout this time. That conversation has not gone away. So

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Speaker 1: I love to just kind of hear from you what

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Speaker 1: kinds of things you've been seeing in your work related

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Speaker 1: to the pandemic in people in terms of like body

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Speaker 1: image and eating. Such a great question, and you're right,

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Speaker 1: like to think about it a year later. I catl

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Speaker 1: for my job a lot, So I've been grounded actually

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Speaker 1: since Martie Leven, So it's sort of when this time

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Speaker 1: came around that was something for me that stood out.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, we're continuing to see increases in eating disorders,

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Speaker 1: more individuals seeking treatment because of access to care with

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Speaker 1: the telehealth services, but also just continued messages around body image,

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Speaker 1: body image concerns, increased mental health concerns in general, and

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Speaker 1: so we're seeing a lot more people really struggle with

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Speaker 1: body image, I think in many ways because of the

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Speaker 1: you know, they're constantly on zoom and whether it's school

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Speaker 1: or work related, even being in treatment with us and

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Speaker 1: sort of that a greater opportunity to pick themselves apart

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Speaker 1: in many ways. Yeah, it definitely seems like I have

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Speaker 1: seen now that more people are getting vaccinated, there's been

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Speaker 1: like less of conversations around like people in their summer

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Speaker 1: bodies right and like getting their bodies ready to be

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Speaker 1: seen again. Maybe can you say anything that he has

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Speaker 1: come up for you around it? Yeah, we've not heard

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Speaker 1: it too terribly much, but you're absolutely right. I think

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Speaker 1: this is that time of year where people are working

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Speaker 1: to think about, you know, I got to be in

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Speaker 1: shape summer bodies. I think it is a great way

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Speaker 1: to state that because they're looking at Springberg just past,

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Speaker 1: the summer is coming up, and you're right, more people

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Speaker 1: getting vaccinated are absolutely preparing for returning to air quote

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Speaker 1: like normal activity. You know that they would have done

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Speaker 1: pre pandemic, and so you know, definitely eat the conversation

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Speaker 1: around body image, as you can imagine, never really goes away.

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Speaker 1: It's something that people struggle with all the time. It's

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Speaker 1: just that continued increase, being bombarded with messages and again

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Speaker 1: looking at if they did gain any weight over the

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Speaker 1: pandemic and being sort of stuck in their homes. Then

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Speaker 1: app like the desire to lose weight and you know,

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Speaker 1: focus on appearance is continued to increase overall. Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: you bring up a really good point, Paula, in terms

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Speaker 1: of like these conversations never really going away, And I

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Speaker 1: wonder if we can kind of start from the beginning,

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Speaker 1: just in terms of like how do we even develop

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Speaker 1: our body image? Like where do some of those messages

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Speaker 1: come from? Like how early is that developed for us? Oh?

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Speaker 1: My goodness, birth. I think that body image is so complex.

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Speaker 1: So I think even though we may or may not

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Speaker 1: be opening up to those messages at birth, but it

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Speaker 1: really does start at birth and it shifts over time

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Speaker 1: throughout various stages of life. You know, body image. We

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Speaker 1: think of that as like how you see yourself, your

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Speaker 1: feelings about your body, how you feel in your body,

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Speaker 1: but also how you believe others see you. And so

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Speaker 1: if you can imagine if all of those things really

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Speaker 1: influence body image and body image development, then the factors

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Speaker 1: that are contributing to at our both internal and external.

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Speaker 1: That can be our culture and ethnicity, but also who

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Speaker 1: are the people in our lives, what are the messages

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Speaker 1: that we receive from peers or family members? Are just

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Speaker 1: our daily groups that we engage in that really do

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Speaker 1: influence our attitudes and values that maybe we're trying to

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Speaker 1: conform to in addition to just our own perceptions and

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Speaker 1: attitudes and beliefs. You know about body image, m yeah,

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Speaker 1: and we know you know pop culture and movies and

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Speaker 1: TV and all those things really impact like how we

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Speaker 1: see ourselves, especially as Black women. Absolutely, and when you're

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Speaker 1: talking about body image, especially with black women, we're talking

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Speaker 1: about appearance overall. So that's going to be not just

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Speaker 1: thinness so to speak, but we're incorporating height, shape, weight,

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Speaker 1: but also some memories could be contributing our assumptions, our generalizations.

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Speaker 1: We know about looking good with black women and people

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Speaker 1: of color, but then also hair complexion. All of these

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Speaker 1: things are factors for black women when you think about

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Speaker 1: body image. Yeah, and something that we haven't really talked about,

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Speaker 1: and I'm wondering if this is something that you work

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Speaker 1: with a lot in your work. All it is body

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Speaker 1: dysmorphic disorder. We do. It's definitely looking at individuals. I

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Speaker 1: would say we probably have more individuals that are just

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Speaker 1: presented with body image concerns than body dysmorphic disordered. But yes,

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Speaker 1: we do see it, you know, and really with body dysmorphia,

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Speaker 1: exploring that there's still just something like wrong that they

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Speaker 1: truly do not see themselves the way that other people

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Speaker 1: see them. And I know there seems to be like

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Speaker 1: a slight you know, they're sort of like, what's the difference,

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Speaker 1: right if I don't see myself the way others see

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Speaker 1: me just having general body image concerns versus body dysmorphia.

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Speaker 1: When I think about body dysmorphia, it's like there's something flawed.

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Speaker 1: It truly is off or distorted or wrong or flawed

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Speaker 1: in some way that there's this constant desire to fix it.

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Speaker 1: And that's where you may see people do going not

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Speaker 1: just diets and things like that, but plastic surgery. They're

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Speaker 1: working to fix and repair the flaw. So, you know, Paula,

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Speaker 1: I feel like I had a conversation with someone probably

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Speaker 1: a couple of months ago around since you bring up

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Speaker 1: the idea of plastic surgery, like is it ever within

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Speaker 1: range to do plastic surgery? Like are we always looking

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Speaker 1: at something that could be considered like a body image issue.

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Speaker 1: It's interesting because as you're saying that, I think about

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Speaker 1: family members and friends and people that I know who

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Speaker 1: have had some form of surgery or enhancements or corrections,

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Speaker 1: if you will. And so I think it's definitely much

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Speaker 1: more accessible to black women now that then, whether it's

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Speaker 1: a liposuction or a tummy tuck or trying to think

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Speaker 1: like all of the turns when people are getting their

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Speaker 1: hips enhanced or their lips, and you know, I think

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Speaker 1: there's so many ways that people are constantly trying to

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Speaker 1: improve themselves else and to create a sense of looking

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Speaker 1: good and looking better, And so what are the adjustments

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Speaker 1: that they then make. I think that because black women

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Speaker 1: may adopt like a thicker figure even though they still

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Speaker 1: want to be slim, like a thin stomach or slim aps,

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Speaker 1: but being okay with curves, that's where that accentuating some

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Speaker 1: of the things that result in me looking good or

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Speaker 1: that individual looking good that they may you know, engage

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Speaker 1: in some sort of whether it's actual surgical or non

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Speaker 1: surgical enhancements. And I guess the real question is always

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Speaker 1: like really questioning your intention and like understanding where those

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Speaker 1: decisions are coming from for you. Yes, absolutely, you know

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Speaker 1: it is when, especially when you go back to body

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Speaker 1: image and thinking about how do other people see me

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Speaker 1: or how do I see myself? It really becomes that

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Speaker 1: what is the influence on sort of my own thoughts?

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Speaker 1: How do I really embrace and accept this is who

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Speaker 1: I am and it's not me trying to make changes

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Speaker 1: based on maybe other people's comments or other people's beliefs

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Speaker 1: about how my body should or should not be. I

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Speaker 1: sometimes say the clients that we work with, like, what

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Speaker 1: is good body image? And I'm like, I don't really

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Speaker 1: know what is the answer to that, And I will

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Speaker 1: sometimes say to them, good body image. I woke up

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Speaker 1: this morning, It's like, uh, okay, I look good and

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Speaker 1: I keep it moving and I don't worry about anything else.

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Speaker 1: I'm able to do my job and it's not a

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Speaker 1: factor for the rest of the day or tomorrow. I

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Speaker 1: can wake up and think, I get dressed, I get

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Speaker 1: to work, I do what I need to do, and

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Speaker 1: I don't think about it the rest of the day.

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Speaker 1: It's not influencing I work, how I feel about myself.

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Speaker 1: It's just acknowledging that today I think I might look good,

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Speaker 1: tomorrow not so much. And that is really how I

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Speaker 1: think about what good body images. And again that's my

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Speaker 1: view of this. But if we're not able to view

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Speaker 1: it in that way versus we are constantly changing, it's

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Speaker 1: impacting our emotional state, it's impacting our relationships or our responsibilities.

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Speaker 1: That's why we have to think about what's going on

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Speaker 1: that this is something deeper than just dissatisfaction today. So

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Speaker 1: you mentioned that one part or one thing that can

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Speaker 1: impact our sense of our body images memories. Can you

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Speaker 1: elaborate on that a little more. Yeah, I definitely think

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Speaker 1: there's a even if we think about intergenerational trauma. I

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Speaker 1: absolutely believe that there are intergenerational and historical influences on

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Speaker 1: a black woman's body, and so I think that's why

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Speaker 1: it is complex in many ways, kind of thinking about

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Speaker 1: how going back to slavery where a larger body size,

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Speaker 1: even though we know that there are the archetypes that

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Speaker 1: were present like with the Mammy, but also there's this

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Speaker 1: sense of being linked like fatness or being greedy or

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Speaker 1: lazy as Africans, and that they needed to be disciplined

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Speaker 1: and controlled. Also, we know that black women's body going

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Speaker 1: back to slavery again was treated as being in excess,

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Speaker 1: and so I think that that's something that absolutely can

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Speaker 1: be passed on. But also when you're thinking about memories,

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Speaker 1: what are some of the things that happen along the

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Speaker 1: way developmentally, And I don't know that sometimes those things

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Speaker 1: are always over experiences. They could be things where maybe

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Speaker 1: I've never even told anyone about, or this message that

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Speaker 1: I heard or even the messages that I heard, like

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Speaker 1: my family make about their own bodies and thinking, Okay,

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Speaker 1: if I look like aunt Tina and I hear people

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Speaker 1: commenting about Auntina's body, how might I adopt those things?

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Speaker 1: And those become some of the memories I think as

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Speaker 1: well that really influence in shape how we see ourselves

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Speaker 1: as individuals. M Yeah, I really appreciate that context, because

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Speaker 1: you're right, I think it is often a very complex

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Speaker 1: kind of situation. It's definitely not as easy as telling

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Speaker 1: somebody just stop doing that, right, Like, there are lots

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Speaker 1: of layers like their auld be explored here. Agree. Also,

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Speaker 1: just thinking about as you're saying that, I keep going

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Speaker 1: back to body image for black women is not about thinness,

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Speaker 1: and I think we continue to sort of have to

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Speaker 1: educate others and fight this fight, so to speak, that

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Speaker 1: it's not just a black woman may embrace a larger

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Speaker 1: body type. It's just that our standards, I guess I

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Speaker 1: would say for black girls developmentally, or the standards for

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Speaker 1: black women overall are just different from that of white

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Speaker 1: women in terms of a preferred body type. Why do

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Speaker 1: you feel like it's important to make that distinction, Because

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Speaker 1: if the standard of beauty is focused on this uniform

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Speaker 1: picture that's been established by a white sort of social

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Speaker 1: construct of beauty, that you're going to be missing the mark.

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Speaker 1: But then also I think to sort of generalize black

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Speaker 1: women as oh, just all of them are accepting of

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Speaker 1: a thicker figure or a larger body type, again, you're

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Speaker 1: missing the mark. And so I think that it's important

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Speaker 1: to know that even though black women may select like

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Speaker 1: larger body silhouettes has been documented in studies, it's more

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Speaker 1: based on in general, black people versus white people may

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Speaker 1: think about body image or just acceptance of body type

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Speaker 1: at a larger b M I And so they're not

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Speaker 1: looking at that thin ideal. They're not looking necessarily at

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Speaker 1: that standard of beauty that was developed from this white

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Speaker 1: social construct. And that's the part that I think that clinicians,

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Speaker 1: all clinicians really need to be aware of, otherwise there

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Speaker 1: could be some contradictory messages that are occurring. MMMM. That

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Speaker 1: is such an important point. I'm glad you shared that, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: because if you are a white clinician or somebody who's

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Speaker 1: not in tune with all these cultural pieces, you may

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Speaker 1: miss that. I may have like some disordered eating because

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Speaker 1: I seem fine with my curves. Absolutely. I know that

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Speaker 1: you also recently contributed a chapter to the Treating Black

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Speaker 1: Women with Eating Disor there's a clinicians guy. Can you

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Speaker 1: tell us about your chapter? Yes, thank you. So the

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Speaker 1: chapter focused on beinge eating disorder and shame overall, looking

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Speaker 1: at eating disorders amongst black women and ben eating disorder

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Speaker 1: in particular, but really focusing on that sense of mental

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Speaker 1: health being taboo growing up. So I'm in my forties,

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Speaker 1: so in the chapter, I kind of go back thinking

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Speaker 1: about personal experiences or the messages personally, but then also

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Speaker 1: in working with women of color. So just that acknowledgement

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Speaker 1: that forty plus years ago and still today, in many ways,

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Speaker 1: mental health was not talked about, let alone the thought

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Speaker 1: about eating disorders, and so just thinking if someone was

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Speaker 1: struggling with any sort of depression, anxiety, or an eating disorder,

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Speaker 1: who would they have turned to? And so how it

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Speaker 1: becomes this great sense of shame that I'm struggling with

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Speaker 1: something that I'm weaker than maybe my peers are my siblings.

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Speaker 1: And so that's one of the messages that I really

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Speaker 1: wanted to sort of put out in the chapter that

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Speaker 1: focus on shame and then what that really does to

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Speaker 1: us and how shame not only influences disordered eating, but

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Speaker 1: also how shame influences body image and just general sense

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Speaker 1: of self again then reinforcing probably some increased depression, anxiety,

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Speaker 1: and other mental health concerns as well. M M. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So you know this whole idea, especially for the plus

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Speaker 1: years ago we weren't talking about therapy, but we definitely

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Speaker 1: were not talking about eating disorders, right like, yeah, like,

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Speaker 1: I don't even know. You may be able to give

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Speaker 1: us a better sense of a timeline, but at what

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Speaker 1: point it even became recognized that, like, black women actually

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Speaker 1: did struggle with eating disorders because for a long time,

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Speaker 1: and I think still some of this is in the

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Speaker 1: narrative around like, oh that's not something black girls struggle with, right,

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Speaker 1: like only white girls get eating disorders, you know. So

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Speaker 1: I think our timeline even later than you know, the

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Speaker 1: general population in terms of discussing these things. M yeah,

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Speaker 1: in terms of exact dates, club, I don't know that,

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Speaker 1: but absolutely, you know, I've been with Renfrew for almost

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Speaker 1: fourteen years, and when I think about when I first started,

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Speaker 1: I was not seeing not only providers that look like me,

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Speaker 1: but definitely no patients that look like me. Even when

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Speaker 1: we did have a patient, it was the rarity. I'm

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Speaker 1: grateful for telehealth services now that we're able to connect

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Speaker 1: more people of color amongst our system at Renfrew, But

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Speaker 1: even still you might have one or a few because

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Speaker 1: there is still so much stigma. The eating disorders still

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Speaker 1: doesn't even occur within It may be more bench eating

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Speaker 1: disorder versus anorexia or bulimia, and black women get all

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Speaker 1: eating disorders right right, But I do think about eating

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Speaker 1: disorders have definitely been present. I don't know if I

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Speaker 1: shared this in the chapter or not, but I can

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Speaker 1: even recall growing that my grandmother used laxatives all the time,

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Speaker 1: like every single day. And when I think about how

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Speaker 1: we might characterize Bolivia and even now or even a

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Speaker 1: sub clinical diagnosis, you know, of an eating disorder, might

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Speaker 1: I have considered her having some disordered eating with utilizing laxatives.

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Speaker 1: I think we miss the things that black women may

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Speaker 1: do or engage in that are absolutely still disordered behaviors.

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Speaker 1: More from my conversation with Paula right after the break,

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Speaker 1: can you share other things that might be missed? Well?

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Speaker 1: Definitely the laxatives, even though again I realized that all

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Speaker 1: individuals who engage in eating disorders may utilize some of these,

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Speaker 1: But yeah, diet pills and laxatives and diuretics would be

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Speaker 1: up there at the top for me as I think

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Speaker 1: about people who are black individuals, when I think even historically,

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Speaker 1: or even when I think about just people that I

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Speaker 1: know that know people and know what I do, and

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Speaker 1: they sort of talk and explore is this a problem?

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Speaker 1: So diabos, lacks of and diuretics are absolutely something that

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Speaker 1: the frequency may not meet the criteria for a diagnosis

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Speaker 1: of a eating disorder. But if you're talking about this

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Speaker 1: is something that's disordered behaviors and that could somebody start

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Speaker 1: to seek some help around. Absolutely, I think this is

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Speaker 1: where we're missing the mark. I recall reading a few

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Speaker 1: years back where what if individuals who could have been

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Speaker 1: diagnosed with maybe binge eating disorder or subclinical eating disorders,

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Speaker 1: we're missed because the focus was just on health and

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Speaker 1: weight and that you just needed to lose weight. That

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Speaker 1: did any of those individuals then start to engage in

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Speaker 1: other behaviors, whether it was the purging via like you said,

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Speaker 1: putting your finger down your throat, or maybe they started

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Speaker 1: restricting more. What if we would have caught some of

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Speaker 1: these disorders or these behaviors beforehand, what would the frequency

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Speaker 1: be of eating disorders amongst various populations. M Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: mean I think it's probably safe to say the numbers

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Speaker 1: are not super accurate, absolutely, because we're also still taking

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Speaker 1: the numbers based on who's reporting too. You know, this

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Speaker 1: is just on his seeking treatment in general. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: think other behaviors that could be still some subclinical. Again,

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Speaker 1: maybe they're exercise and are over exercise. And even though

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Speaker 1: I realize we're talking about exercise and black women, that's

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Speaker 1: kind of always been a thing and with respect to hair,

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Speaker 1: but exercise is an appropriate behavior. People encourage people to exercise.

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Speaker 1: That's just being heart healthy. And so I think that

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Speaker 1: behaviors that individuals believe are okay, this is what's getting missed.

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Speaker 1: Dieting just in general, even when I think about the

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Speaker 1: inter minute fasting, this is something that could be Is

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Speaker 1: this a gateway it's sort of some subclinical behaviors but

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Speaker 1: yet it's socially acceptable. That was on my list to

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Speaker 1: bring up, Paula, but you have already brought it up,

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Speaker 1: so let's go there. So I don't quite understand what

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Speaker 1: intermittent fasting is. But in paying attention to the landscape

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Speaker 1: from people who use a health at every size model,

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Speaker 1: it seems like people are not excited about this, right

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Speaker 1: like people in your field, because it does feel like

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Speaker 1: there is some concern. So can you say more about

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Speaker 1: what intermittent fasting is and why we might want to

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Speaker 1: be careful with it? Yeah, essentially his dieting. You know,

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Speaker 1: if we were to just be honest, it still is dieting.

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Speaker 1: So intermittent fasting is depending on the plan that an

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Speaker 1: individual is following. They're only allowing themselves to eat during

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Speaker 1: a specific time, and that could be for a certain

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Speaker 1: number of hours each day. It could be eating like

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Speaker 1: the number of meals a certain number of days a week.

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Speaker 1: But the intent is to burn body fat. And so

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Speaker 1: when you're looking at there are multiple plans or recommendations

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Speaker 1: as to how someone may engage in an inner minute

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Speaker 1: fasting or in a minute fast and again they're not

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Speaker 1: doing it for religious purposes. So for example, someone might

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Speaker 1: only eat during an eight hour period each day and

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Speaker 1: then they're fasting for the remainder of the day, or

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Speaker 1: they could choose to eat only one meal a day,

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Speaker 1: like two days a week, and then they're fasting and

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Speaker 1: increasing fluids for a few days a week, and then

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Speaker 1: they would resume and sort of go back and forth.

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Speaker 1: And so it's just really that contrast of what normal

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Speaker 1: eating patterns maybe for most of us when we're awake.

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Speaker 1: But again, it's a diet, and it only works by

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Speaker 1: prolonging the period in which your body has burned through

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Speaker 1: the calories consumed from your last meal, and then it

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Speaker 1: starts to burn fat. And who is coming with like

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Speaker 1: the plan for like whether you do only within an

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Speaker 1: eight hour versus like only eat every two days. I'm

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Speaker 1: guessing this is not happening with like a physician or

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Speaker 1: somebody like guiding like this. Not I hope not, but

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Speaker 1: it could be, and I don't want to say that

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Speaker 1: it definitely is, but just if there are some individuals

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Speaker 1: who are encouraging or prescribing diets that are medical professionals,

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Speaker 1: this could be a way that they're also prescribing a

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Speaker 1: diet in terms of who's coming up with the how

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Speaker 1: and what. That's something Joy I really don't know. I

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Speaker 1: do know that there's always the recommendations of check with

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Speaker 1: your doctor before starting any diet program. They're saying the

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Speaker 1: same thing about even starting the inter minute fasting, because

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Speaker 1: there are so many approaches to doing it. They just

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Speaker 1: say you can pick like daily approach, you can explore

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Speaker 1: what might happen. There's like a sixteen eight which is

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Speaker 1: like I mentioned about the eating for eight hours fasting

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Speaker 1: for sixteen There's another approach that's like a five to

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Speaker 1: two approach, where you can eat regularly for five days

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Speaker 1: a week and then the other two days you're limiting

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Speaker 1: yourself to one five to six hundred calorie meal. So

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Speaker 1: there are so many plans, even stretching out the period

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Speaker 1: of time without food from like anywhere from twenty four

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Speaker 1: hours to seventy two hours, and so as you can imagine,

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Speaker 1: that can be dangerous for us. What is dangerous about

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Speaker 1: it because your body still needs fuel, you know where

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Speaker 1: you're thinking about fuel and energy, This is what all

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Speaker 1: of our bodies need. And I think that going too

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Speaker 1: long without eating can actually encourage your body to store

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Speaker 1: fat in response to starvation. But also if you're thinking

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Speaker 1: about somebody who already maybe medically compromise, is this than

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Speaker 1: what your body needs, Because keep in mind, they're fasting

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Speaker 1: to get to the point of where their body is

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Speaker 1: now starting to burn fat. And so for each of us,

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Speaker 1: we don't know what that time length is going to be. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and this is where you get into the territory of

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Speaker 1: like really missing up like your hunger cues. And you know,

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Speaker 1: so then your body is like not indicating to you

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Speaker 1: when you actually do need more few absolutely, and and

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Speaker 1: then if you're prone to develop an eating disorder, just

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Speaker 1: imagine that, then now have you kind of set something

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Speaker 1: off there, but the temperament vulnerability in terms of who

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Speaker 1: develops it. But you're absolutely correct, hunger and fullness cues

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Speaker 1: are so vital to any of us. You know, if

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Speaker 1: we're talking about normalized eating in general, we want to

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Speaker 1: be able to incorporate like variety, balance, moderation, but also pleasure.

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Speaker 1: We want to consume foods that we enjoy. And so

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Speaker 1: if we're working on that and being a more intuitive

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Speaker 1: eater and having a healthy relationship with food, that's the

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Speaker 1: approach to take. You know, that's where you want to

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Speaker 1: be able to sort of work things out versus this

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Speaker 1: diet approach. Can you say more about that, Paula, how

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Speaker 1: we actually do develop a healthy relationship with food? So

433
00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:08,639
Speaker 1: intuity of eating is also something that I've heard people

434
00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:11,240
Speaker 1: talk about. Can you say more about that? Oh? Well,

435
00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:13,639
Speaker 1: when I think about how do you develop a healthy

436
00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:18,320
Speaker 1: relationship with food, and going back to anybody with kids

437
00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:20,439
Speaker 1: or not, that everyone does this, So let me not

438
00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:24,919
Speaker 1: make a blanket statement, but understanding that we don't want

439
00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:28,040
Speaker 1: to pressure people to eat. Now, again, that's outside of

440
00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:30,960
Speaker 1: the eating disorder. We're not talking about people who have

441
00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:35,439
Speaker 1: eating disorders, but recognizing that pressuring individuals to eat is

442
00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:37,920
Speaker 1: not necessarily going to be a good thing. So when

443
00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:41,159
Speaker 1: I think about developing a healthy relationship with food, it

444
00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:43,800
Speaker 1: really starts with what are our food beliefs? What do

445
00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:47,520
Speaker 1: we believe about food? Really not holding onto so it

446
00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:51,040
Speaker 1: is good, bad food beliefs, Really being able to let

447
00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:55,760
Speaker 1: go of diets and diet approaches, and just acknowledging that

448
00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:58,639
Speaker 1: all fates fit. So that's really going to be part

449
00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:02,560
Speaker 1: of it. But that part of it is ongoing because

450
00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:06,040
Speaker 1: we're bombarded with messages. But as you developed that healthy

451
00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:09,440
Speaker 1: relationship with food, acknowledging that food is life, we all

452
00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:11,600
Speaker 1: have to have it, it's all going to be in common.

453
00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:14,960
Speaker 1: And so if we're utilizing food for survival, then what

454
00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:18,800
Speaker 1: does that look like, also acknowledging that different people have

455
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:22,919
Speaker 1: different needs and food preferences, and so sometimes that's going

456
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:26,159
Speaker 1: to be biologically driven, but other times it's just our

457
00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:29,159
Speaker 1: taste buds and what we like or dislike. And so

458
00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:32,320
Speaker 1: I think that's where it's the acceptance and variety and

459
00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:35,440
Speaker 1: really not falling into this about what's good or what's bad.

460
00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:41,119
Speaker 1: It's also identifying is there any sort of emotional activity

461
00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:45,960
Speaker 1: already emotional connection to what we're eating, why we're eating,

462
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:48,960
Speaker 1: and even maybe the how we're eating, and so increasing

463
00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:52,560
Speaker 1: our understanding of that as well in the process of,

464
00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:55,280
Speaker 1: you know, working on developing a healthy relationship with food.

465
00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:59,720
Speaker 1: Mm hmm. More from my conversation with Paula right after

466
00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:12,360
Speaker 1: the Yeah, and I wonder if you can say more

467
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:15,120
Speaker 1: about kind of earlier we started this conversation, but I'd

468
00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:17,960
Speaker 1: like to go back to just the whole, like entire

469
00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:22,040
Speaker 1: body positivity movement. Do you have thoughts on the current

470
00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:29,240
Speaker 1: evolution of what that looks like? You know? I, yes,

471
00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:34,480
Speaker 1: I think what it wasn't what it's intended to do.

472
00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:37,159
Speaker 1: I think it's great, I really do. I think the

473
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:42,680
Speaker 1: intention is great, that it's about acceptance of all bodies

474
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:48,160
Speaker 1: regardless of physical ability, size, gender, race, appearance. I think

475
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:50,880
Speaker 1: if we could hold onto that, that would be amazing.

476
00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:56,200
Speaker 1: I think that it also has the concept that all

477
00:28:56,280 --> 00:29:00,200
Speaker 1: people deserve to have a positive body image, regardless of

478
00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:04,600
Speaker 1: what society and culture believes an ideal shape or size

479
00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:08,800
Speaker 1: and appearance needs to be. Where I struggle with body

480
00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:12,600
Speaker 1: positivity is that I think that we have to also

481
00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:17,840
Speaker 1: think about racial diversity, and we really have to think about, like,

482
00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:22,280
Speaker 1: how do we have these movements that focus on one

483
00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:27,479
Speaker 1: aspect of something like body positivity, But maybe are we

484
00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:31,719
Speaker 1: also acknowledging that there's some anti blackness somewhere as well?

485
00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:35,040
Speaker 1: Are we accepting of other social movements? Are we accepting

486
00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:39,320
Speaker 1: of people in general? And I think that's where if

487
00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:43,320
Speaker 1: we're focused on sort of body positivity, we also need

488
00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:47,440
Speaker 1: to be focused on racial equality as well. Yeah, and

489
00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:51,400
Speaker 1: I have also seen commentary just around like maybe people

490
00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:54,680
Speaker 1: won't actually feel positive about their bodies and is that

491
00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:58,040
Speaker 1: also okay, like more of a neutral like you kind

492
00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:00,440
Speaker 1: of mentioned like I wake up and I'm like okay,

493
00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:02,600
Speaker 1: and I don't necessarily feel one way or another about

494
00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:05,640
Speaker 1: my body, so not necessarily body positivity, but I don't

495
00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:09,479
Speaker 1: necessarily feel negative about myself exactly Rock saying gay who

496
00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:13,480
Speaker 1: my love? She had a quote somewhere and one of

497
00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:15,720
Speaker 1: the things that she had amongst other parts of this,

498
00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:19,600
Speaker 1: but she said that it was insulting to assume that

499
00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:23,080
Speaker 1: I am ashamed of myself for being fat, no matter

500
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:25,400
Speaker 1: how close to the truth that might be enjoyed. That's

501
00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:28,360
Speaker 1: exactly what you're talking about. Can I just be acceptond

502
00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:31,520
Speaker 1: of my body? I don't necessarily have to be positive

503
00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:34,200
Speaker 1: about it. I just acknowledge that it is. It allows

504
00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:36,360
Speaker 1: me to do what I need to do, but also

505
00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:39,440
Speaker 1: knowing that there might be different days that I feel

506
00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:42,960
Speaker 1: a little bit differently about it, versus is someone trying

507
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:46,640
Speaker 1: to make me accept my size, my shape, my weight.

508
00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:49,760
Speaker 1: I hadn't heard that quote. I thank you for sharing that,

509
00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:52,800
Speaker 1: but it really speaks to a sense of entitlement. Right then,

510
00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:55,120
Speaker 1: like other people get to tell you how you need

511
00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:58,640
Speaker 1: to feel about your body. M I'll start the beginning

512
00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:01,360
Speaker 1: of it. It says it's hard for thin people to

513
00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:03,840
Speaker 1: know how to talk to fat people about their bodies,

514
00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:07,560
Speaker 1: whether their opinions are solicited or not. And she says,

515
00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:10,320
Speaker 1: I get that, but it's insulting to pretend I am

516
00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:13,080
Speaker 1: not fat, or to deny my body and its reality.

517
00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:16,120
Speaker 1: It's insulting to think I am somehow unaware of my

518
00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:19,400
Speaker 1: physical appearance. And then and it's insulting to assume that

519
00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:22,080
Speaker 1: I'm ashamed of myself for being fat, no matter how

520
00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:24,680
Speaker 1: close to the tip that might be. And whenever I

521
00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:27,720
Speaker 1: think about body positivity, this is what I think about.

522
00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:31,000
Speaker 1: So how would you like to see that move forward,

523
00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:34,160
Speaker 1: whether it be body positivity or something else. That's a

524
00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:39,160
Speaker 1: great question. I think about self acceptance, how individuals learn

525
00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:45,200
Speaker 1: to exist in their bodies, learned to exist in society.

526
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:49,320
Speaker 1: That might feel a little too idealistic, but I think

527
00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:55,720
Speaker 1: about social acceptance and not allowing society to determine my value.

528
00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:58,600
Speaker 1: And when I say society, it even could be family,

529
00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:01,640
Speaker 1: you know, it could be peers. But also, like you

530
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:05,480
Speaker 1: said earlier, the messages and social media and media on,

531
00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:08,280
Speaker 1: all of these factors that can definitely influence how I

532
00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:11,640
Speaker 1: think about myself or how an individual thinks about themselves.

533
00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:18,160
Speaker 1: You've given me something to think about us think about, yeah,

534
00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:20,680
Speaker 1: because you know, like, what is the standard of beauty?

535
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:25,080
Speaker 1: I think that's what it is. What's okay? Interestingly, I

536
00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:28,560
Speaker 1: think about maybe being connected to your own body. What

537
00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:32,720
Speaker 1: I think about sort of body image distortion and just

538
00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:36,760
Speaker 1: body image in general, that how individuals are sort of

539
00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:41,840
Speaker 1: disconnected from their bodies. It's whether emotionally the experiences that

540
00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:45,840
Speaker 1: they have and in an effort to protect themselves. And

541
00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:48,280
Speaker 1: so if there's a way that we can sort of

542
00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:52,480
Speaker 1: be more connected, be more accepting not just of the

543
00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:56,600
Speaker 1: physical appearance, but the emotional stuff, the internal stuff that

544
00:32:56,640 --> 00:33:00,680
Speaker 1: we are experiencing, I think about that is being probably

545
00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:04,480
Speaker 1: some really good body image stuff too. Do you have

546
00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:07,680
Speaker 1: some favorite exercises? Are things that you suggest for people

547
00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:10,200
Speaker 1: who do need to work on being more connected to

548
00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:14,600
Speaker 1: their bodies? Mm hmm, yeah. You know, in some ways

549
00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:19,680
Speaker 1: we teach our clients a lot about reappraisals, and that's

550
00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:21,600
Speaker 1: one of the things that I would say is really

551
00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:26,840
Speaker 1: pretty powerful because I think our automatic thoughts when they occur,

552
00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:29,080
Speaker 1: it's like the truth, the whole true, that nothing but

553
00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:31,640
Speaker 1: the truth, right, Like there's nothing that anyone else could

554
00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:34,200
Speaker 1: say to me that would make this different or to

555
00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:38,239
Speaker 1: make me believe something differently, especially for individuals who are

556
00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:41,600
Speaker 1: really struggling with eating disordered, disordered eating it, and even

557
00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:45,480
Speaker 1: just those who experience body image concerns, And so when

558
00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:49,120
Speaker 1: I think about a reappraisal, the intent is to explore

559
00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:53,680
Speaker 1: could something else be true? It doesn't mean that it

560
00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:57,160
Speaker 1: is true, because maybe what you believe your automatic thought

561
00:33:57,400 --> 00:34:00,760
Speaker 1: may absolutely be true, but real as I'll start to

562
00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:03,760
Speaker 1: think about could something else be true? And that's one

563
00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:06,400
Speaker 1: of the things we encourage and work on with clients.

564
00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:10,320
Speaker 1: So then maybe my emotional response may not be as strong.

565
00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:13,760
Speaker 1: I may not engage in some sort of disordered behavior

566
00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:17,680
Speaker 1: instead of WHOA, if something else could be true? How

567
00:34:17,680 --> 00:34:19,600
Speaker 1: does that may be less than the intensity of what

568
00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:23,360
Speaker 1: I feel? How could that encourage or change the behavior

569
00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:26,440
Speaker 1: that I'm using or engaging in too, sort of dampen

570
00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:30,120
Speaker 1: down that emotional experience that's related to some of the

571
00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:34,120
Speaker 1: distortions I experienced in my body. Also, I think being

572
00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:36,880
Speaker 1: able to explore what are some of those core beliefs

573
00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:40,600
Speaker 1: that you have going back if body images about not

574
00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:43,880
Speaker 1: just how I believe other people see me, but also

575
00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:48,279
Speaker 1: how I see myself and those internal factors in addition

576
00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:52,200
Speaker 1: to the memories and the assumptions and generalizations that occur.

577
00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:55,719
Speaker 1: Then how can I start to explore my core beliefs

578
00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:59,120
Speaker 1: and that could be core beliefs about your body that

579
00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:02,239
Speaker 1: could be core belief It is about how your interactions

580
00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:05,600
Speaker 1: with other people and as individuals start to be able

581
00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:08,680
Speaker 1: to identify what some of those core beliefs maybe, and

582
00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:11,840
Speaker 1: those thing be things about I'm unlovable, I'm not good enough,

583
00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:15,880
Speaker 1: I'll never measure up. Then being able to start to

584
00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:19,560
Speaker 1: work through that, like where did this belief form? How

585
00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:22,880
Speaker 1: does it get reinforced? And then thinking about then maybe

586
00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:25,400
Speaker 1: some of the things that we engage in body image

587
00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:30,680
Speaker 1: wise could also absolutely be encouraging the core relief. Thank

588
00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:32,560
Speaker 1: you for that, Paula. Those sounds like some great things

589
00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:34,520
Speaker 1: that kind of keep in mind related to both body

590
00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:37,120
Speaker 1: image but also related to other things, right, like especially

591
00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:39,839
Speaker 1: the reappraisal, like could something else be true? I think

592
00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:43,640
Speaker 1: is a really powerful question. And I think like and

593
00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:46,720
Speaker 1: it's so again, we even refer to the core beliefs

594
00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:49,799
Speaker 1: as appraisals. And I always think about real estate, you know,

595
00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:52,560
Speaker 1: because it is what is the value that we're placing

596
00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:55,640
Speaker 1: on this thought? And and that's what we do with

597
00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:57,720
Speaker 1: our core beliefs and even to some of our general

598
00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:01,160
Speaker 1: automatic thoughts that we have that it must be true

599
00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:03,640
Speaker 1: versus a reappraise. So you know, let me go look

600
00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:06,480
Speaker 1: out elsewhere, let me see if there's something else that

601
00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:09,359
Speaker 1: may give me a different, you know, response in terms

602
00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:12,719
Speaker 1: of the value. But if we're putting our value external

603
00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:15,880
Speaker 1: of us, especially if we're trying to fit into the

604
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:19,960
Speaker 1: society's standard of beauty, then I think we'll always miss

605
00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:23,800
Speaker 1: the mark. M M. You know that point in addition

606
00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:26,960
Speaker 1: to the conversation that we had earlier around like plastic surgery,

607
00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:29,880
Speaker 1: is making me wonder if you have seen anything or

608
00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:34,160
Speaker 1: even in your own experiences related to just how accessible

609
00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:39,280
Speaker 1: plastic surgery and plastic surgeons have become, like even on Instagram,

610
00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:41,520
Speaker 1: you know, Like I think about like Dr Miami and

611
00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:43,480
Speaker 1: like some of the other people who have like really

612
00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:47,200
Speaker 1: huge platforms, And I feel like years ago, like plastic

613
00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:50,600
Speaker 1: surgery was something very far off, right, like you a

614
00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:52,359
Speaker 1: lot of people talk about it, and if they did,

615
00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:55,359
Speaker 1: it was very hush, right, But now like they are

616
00:36:55,440 --> 00:37:03,040
Speaker 1: like doing surgery on Instagram, Yes, And so I wonder, yeah,

617
00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:06,040
Speaker 1: I wonder if that has kind of given people or

618
00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:10,200
Speaker 1: has contributed in some ways to this body image conversations,

619
00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:13,520
Speaker 1: just the fact that it feels so much more accessible, absolutely,

620
00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:16,799
Speaker 1: especially if there's people that whether I look up to them,

621
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:21,359
Speaker 1: or maybe I like the outcome, you know, of what

622
00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:25,879
Speaker 1: they look like. Then absolutely, I think then how if

623
00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:29,120
Speaker 1: I may already be struggling for individual may already be struggling,

624
00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:31,799
Speaker 1: and maybe they just want something to be enhanced or

625
00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:34,520
Speaker 1: something to be a little bit different. When you're seeing

626
00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:39,000
Speaker 1: it happening, it's accessible, and even the cost is reasonable

627
00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:42,440
Speaker 1: and payment plans and things like that, then absolutely I

628
00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:47,319
Speaker 1: think that it has. It has helped increase the frequency

629
00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:51,719
Speaker 1: of occurrence in the black community. So where can we

630
00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:56,759
Speaker 1: find good information about things like nutrition? And you know,

631
00:37:56,760 --> 00:37:58,680
Speaker 1: because I know when I was in school, like we

632
00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:01,279
Speaker 1: had the whole food pyramid it and now I think

633
00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:03,160
Speaker 1: we moved to the plate and I'm not even sure

634
00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:06,480
Speaker 1: what the kids at this point. Where can we find

635
00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:09,440
Speaker 1: good information about like what we should be eating, what

636
00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:12,440
Speaker 1: we need to be feeling our bodies. Any resources that

637
00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:16,000
Speaker 1: you would suggest, Yeah, so they can always go to

638
00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:20,200
Speaker 1: the Renfrew Center's website and we have information about nutrition.

639
00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:24,680
Speaker 1: I would also say the National Eating Disorder Association. Also,

640
00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:28,839
Speaker 1: I think maybe having an honest conversation with your providers.

641
00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:31,120
Speaker 1: And you know, I don't want to be on a diet.

642
00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:33,799
Speaker 1: I do want to have normalized eating. I want to

643
00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:36,520
Speaker 1: be able to incorporate cultural foods and things that I

644
00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:39,600
Speaker 1: have every day, So what could that look like. I

645
00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:43,239
Speaker 1: would also say that if you were to decide to

646
00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:46,520
Speaker 1: work with a dietitian or nutrition is, make sure there's

647
00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:50,759
Speaker 1: someone that isn't just sort of diet focused and they

648
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:54,000
Speaker 1: are about health and weping because they think that's where

649
00:38:54,080 --> 00:38:57,120
Speaker 1: you may miss the opportunity to have someone that's going

650
00:38:57,160 --> 00:39:00,799
Speaker 1: to say, oh, you need to remove harps or you

651
00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:03,239
Speaker 1: need to remove white refined to you know whatever. It

652
00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:06,399
Speaker 1: may be based on the most recent thing that's sort

653
00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:09,040
Speaker 1: of bad for you. But stay in your ground, I

654
00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:10,920
Speaker 1: think in many ways is what I would say. Because

655
00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:14,080
Speaker 1: you want to be able to adopt and include any

656
00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:17,840
Speaker 1: sort of cultural foods and just acknowledging that your body

657
00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:21,239
Speaker 1: is different from someone else's body and normalize eating is

658
00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:24,239
Speaker 1: the way to go. So where can people get in

659
00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:26,719
Speaker 1: touch with you? Paula? Your website as well as any

660
00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:30,439
Speaker 1: social media handles you'd like to share so interestingly, and

661
00:39:30,560 --> 00:39:34,880
Speaker 1: I thought about this when you interview Dr Brooks. I

662
00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:39,719
Speaker 1: don't do social media. It is so not a renfree

663
00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:43,359
Speaker 1: thing and it's just I don't know and I talked

664
00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:45,319
Speaker 1: to so many different people. They're like, you have to

665
00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:48,239
Speaker 1: do it, like you need Even someone said that I

666
00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:51,160
Speaker 1: was referencing I know that with therapy for black girls,

667
00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:54,239
Speaker 1: clue their black providers, but just technology. Someone that said

668
00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:56,680
Speaker 1: to me, like, you're a unicorn. You know, you're a

669
00:39:56,680 --> 00:40:00,040
Speaker 1: black woman that also for your black woman therapists, and

670
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:02,240
Speaker 1: you're a black woman that's treating eating disorders and people

671
00:40:02,239 --> 00:40:04,479
Speaker 1: need to know that and so and I keep sort

672
00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:06,600
Speaker 1: of thinking like, Okay, I'm going to do this at

673
00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:09,279
Speaker 1: some point, but I would say the Renfrew Center is

674
00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:12,480
Speaker 1: always a great way to connect with me, and people

675
00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:15,719
Speaker 1: will direct you that way. If I can say, I'm

676
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:19,799
Speaker 1: also on therapy for black girls as well, and so

677
00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:22,279
Speaker 1: that's a way to connect with me. And even if

678
00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:26,200
Speaker 1: it's to answer questions, I absolutely have no reservations in

679
00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:28,720
Speaker 1: doing that. I want to be able to support people

680
00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:31,319
Speaker 1: and getting them what they need. Perfect Well, thank you

681
00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:34,040
Speaker 1: so much for that. It's so funny. Dr Brooks's daughter

682
00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:36,960
Speaker 1: actually listens to the podcast and so she was trying

683
00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:39,520
Speaker 1: to encourage her mom to get on Instagram after the

684
00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:45,000
Speaker 1: episode posted, so that though, that was really hilarious. So yes,

685
00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:49,560
Speaker 1: it's yeah, my I secretly utilize one of my cousins

686
00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:53,360
Speaker 1: and so I'll sort of stock her or you know,

687
00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:56,240
Speaker 1: access her social media. I'll say, can you post something

688
00:40:56,320 --> 00:40:59,479
Speaker 1: for me? So typically I use my family for that,

689
00:40:59,600 --> 00:41:05,320
Speaker 1: but it'll happen soon, eventually, eventually. Well, thank you so much, Paula.

690
00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:08,279
Speaker 1: I appreciate you sharing all this information with us today.

691
00:41:08,719 --> 00:41:12,279
Speaker 1: Thank you, Thank you as my pleasure and so appreciate it.

692
00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:17,680
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. I'm so glad Paula was able

693
00:41:17,719 --> 00:41:20,680
Speaker 1: to share her expertise with us today. To learn more

694
00:41:20,719 --> 00:41:22,960
Speaker 1: about the room Threw Centers or to check out the

695
00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:25,839
Speaker 1: resources that she shared, be sure to visit the show

696
00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:28,640
Speaker 1: notes at Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash Session

697
00:41:28,680 --> 00:41:31,560
Speaker 1: two oh four, and don't forget to text two of

698
00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:34,000
Speaker 1: your girls and tell them to check out the episode

699
00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:36,960
Speaker 1: as well. If you're looking for a therapist in your area,

700
00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:40,120
Speaker 1: be sure to check out our therapist directory at Therapy

701
00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:44,200
Speaker 1: for Black Girls dot com slash directory. And if you

702
00:41:44,239 --> 00:41:47,080
Speaker 1: want to continue digging into this topic or just be

703
00:41:47,160 --> 00:41:50,120
Speaker 1: in community with other sisters, come on over and join

704
00:41:50,239 --> 00:41:52,960
Speaker 1: us in the Sister Circle. It's our cozy corner of

705
00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:56,160
Speaker 1: the Internet designed just for black women. You can join

706
00:41:56,280 --> 00:41:59,600
Speaker 1: us at community dot Therapy for black girls dot Com.

707
00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:01,919
Speaker 1: Thank else so much for joining me again this week.

708
00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:05,040
Speaker 1: I look forward to continuing this conversation with you all

709
00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:07,319
Speaker 1: real soon. Take good care,