WEBVTT - A Psychologist’s Guide to Finding Your Most Fulfilling Job Yet 0:00:02.600 --> 0:00:08.520 Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News. You're listening to Bloomberg 0:00:08.560 --> 0:00:12.879 Business Week with Carol Messer and Tim Stenoviek on Bloomberg Radio. 0:00:13.160 --> 0:00:15.960 Earlier this month, we had some data out showing that 0:00:16.120 --> 0:00:19.160 companies are posting fewer job openings this year and employees 0:00:19.200 --> 0:00:21.840 are quitting less as unemployment has begun creeping out from 0:00:21.840 --> 0:00:26.079 low levels, signaling the end of the historically tight labor 0:00:26.120 --> 0:00:29.480 conditions that characterize the rapid recovery from the pandemic shock. 0:00:29.560 --> 0:00:31.640 We talked a little bit about some of the softness 0:00:31.680 --> 0:00:35.640 earlier with Michael McKenzie and Michael McKee about the labor 0:00:35.680 --> 0:00:37.000 market what we're seeing well. 0:00:37.000 --> 0:00:39.480 Our next guest has a take on the labor market, 0:00:39.560 --> 0:00:43.960 specifically on jobs and finding a job that is fulfilling. 0:00:44.280 --> 0:00:48.320 Let's get to doctor Tesso West, professor of psychology at NYU. 0:00:49.000 --> 0:00:52.560 Her new book is Job Therapy, Finding Work that Works 0:00:52.600 --> 0:00:55.320 for You. Doctor West joins us from New York City. 0:00:55.400 --> 0:00:57.920 Doctor West, great to have you here on Bloomberg Business Week. 0:00:57.960 --> 0:00:58.960 Why write this book? 0:01:00.320 --> 0:01:02.720 People are miserable at work, and quite honestly, they have 0:01:02.840 --> 0:01:05.919 no idea why. I think you know, if you ask people, 0:01:06.080 --> 0:01:08.800 why don't you like your job anymore, what's changed since 0:01:08.840 --> 0:01:11.560 the pandemic. They'll come up with a ton of little reasons, 0:01:11.600 --> 0:01:13.880 but they're actually really struggling to come up with the 0:01:14.080 --> 0:01:17.000 reason and more importantly, what it would take to make 0:01:17.040 --> 0:01:19.200 them happy at work. So this book is really about 0:01:19.240 --> 0:01:20.839 finding answers to that deep question. 0:01:21.160 --> 0:01:23.920 Is liking a job generational? And the reason I ask 0:01:24.120 --> 0:01:26.840 is because I remember. 0:01:27.440 --> 0:01:29.119 Early on in my. 0:01:30.400 --> 0:01:32.440 Career, this is going to be fun. 0:01:32.440 --> 0:01:36.160 Uh, you know, looking for a job that I would 0:01:36.160 --> 0:01:37.720 tell people that I wanted to find a job. This 0:01:37.840 --> 0:01:39.720 was before I was like when I was in college. 0:01:39.720 --> 0:01:41.280 I think, like I wanted to, you know, find a 0:01:41.360 --> 0:01:45.480 job that I liked. And I, you know, previous generations, 0:01:45.520 --> 0:01:48.160 earlier generations would say to me, it's a job. It's 0:01:48.160 --> 0:01:49.280 not supposed to be fun. 0:01:49.520 --> 0:01:50.880 It's a job. This is work. 0:01:51.520 --> 0:01:53.200 Is it like a millennial thing that we're supposed to 0:01:53.200 --> 0:01:53.760 like our jobs? 0:01:54.640 --> 0:01:55.640 Millennial gen z? 0:01:56.000 --> 0:01:59.680 I think younger generations they don't necessarily just want to 0:01:59.760 --> 0:02:02.000 like the jobs. They don't want to feel miserable at work. 0:02:02.040 --> 0:02:04.720 They don't want to have high blood pressure from their jobs. 0:02:04.760 --> 0:02:06.640 They don't want to get you know, all these kinds 0:02:06.680 --> 0:02:09.640 of pre existing health conditions from work. So I think 0:02:10.520 --> 0:02:13.960 the discourse around what your job can actually do to 0:02:14.160 --> 0:02:16.640 you and how it can affect your health has definitely 0:02:16.760 --> 0:02:19.120 changed with the younger generations, where they're not just looking 0:02:19.160 --> 0:02:21.560 for purpose, but they're looking for jobs that are not 0:02:21.600 --> 0:02:23.400 going to actually stress them out as much as I 0:02:23.400 --> 0:02:26.239 think the older generations, who are kind of just much 0:02:26.240 --> 0:02:29.520 more accepting of feeling miserable at work and then leaving 0:02:29.560 --> 0:02:31.200 it at work when they went home at the end 0:02:31.200 --> 0:02:31.520 of the day. 0:02:31.560 --> 0:02:34.840 All right, So wait, there's totally not liking your job 0:02:34.960 --> 0:02:37.119 and then there's being stressed at your job. I love 0:02:37.160 --> 0:02:39.680 my job, but I definitely have days where I'm stressed. 0:02:39.960 --> 0:02:42.200 So like, there's a are you telling about people who 0:02:42.240 --> 0:02:44.200 are like in a job and they're like, I hate 0:02:44.320 --> 0:02:46.680 every minute of it? Is that what we're talking about? 0:02:47.560 --> 0:02:48.480 I think both are true. 0:02:48.520 --> 0:02:51.040 So what's fascinating is I think there's a whole category 0:02:51.160 --> 0:02:54.200 people who are highly identified with their jobs. Their jobs 0:02:54.240 --> 0:02:57.079 define who they are, so good days make them feel 0:02:57.480 --> 0:03:00.000 good about themselves as a person. Bad days the opposite, 0:03:00.520 --> 0:03:03.960 but they actually hate that. They are high on what 0:03:04.000 --> 0:03:07.120 we call kind of identity centrality at work, my work 0:03:07.120 --> 0:03:10.359 defines me, but low on satisfaction I hate the thing 0:03:10.400 --> 0:03:13.560 that defines me, And I think that's the dangerous category 0:03:13.600 --> 0:03:15.520 to be in, is to feel like something kind of 0:03:15.560 --> 0:03:17.519 owns you, but you don't like it at the same time, 0:03:17.560 --> 0:03:18.840 and you don't know how to get out of it. 0:03:18.840 --> 0:03:20.240 You don't know how to break that cycle. 0:03:20.520 --> 0:03:23.160 Oky, are you saying like, if somebody doesn't like their job, 0:03:23.240 --> 0:03:25.679 the first reaction, you know, if they told someone that 0:03:25.720 --> 0:03:28.160 would be get another job. But you actually argue that 0:03:28.160 --> 0:03:30.919 there are some tools that you can use to stay 0:03:30.919 --> 0:03:34.080 at your current job. But do you like your job more? 0:03:34.280 --> 0:03:34.880 How do you do it? 0:03:35.920 --> 0:03:38.000 I think the tendency to kind of just want to 0:03:38.520 --> 0:03:41.640 jump from job to job isn't getting us anywhere. I 0:03:41.680 --> 0:03:45.000 think you need to first kind of understand why you 0:03:45.080 --> 0:03:48.120 dislike it, what is the psychological source of your own happiness? 0:03:48.520 --> 0:03:50.600 And in the same way you would evaluate a marriage 0:03:50.640 --> 0:03:53.040 that's going wrong, you would think to yourself, Okay, what's 0:03:53.120 --> 0:03:55.360 up is it that we aren't communicating? Am I not 0:03:55.440 --> 0:03:58.480 getting feedback? Have I drifted apart? Do I no longer 0:03:58.600 --> 0:04:01.920 recognize you? You know, my having an identity crisis? What's 0:04:01.960 --> 0:04:05.120 that kind of deep underlying meaning behind those feelings? And 0:04:05.160 --> 0:04:07.280 you need to understand those before you can improve your 0:04:07.280 --> 0:04:09.520 current job, or before you can even start kind of 0:04:09.560 --> 0:04:12.080 networking to figure out what you want next. And that's 0:04:12.120 --> 0:04:14.120 the step that most of us actually skip in this 0:04:14.200 --> 0:04:15.600 kind of job hunting process. 0:04:15.760 --> 0:04:18.920 That seems crucial, right. You don't just you're unhappy, just leave. 0:04:18.960 --> 0:04:20.440 You've got to figure out what is it that makes 0:04:20.440 --> 0:04:23.680 you unhappy, because you might actually like where you are, 0:04:23.720 --> 0:04:26.920 but just not the particular job that you're in. All right, 0:04:26.960 --> 0:04:29.080 so give us a checklist. I'm just thinking people are 0:04:29.080 --> 0:04:31.440 listening and they're like, okay, So that sounds like it's 0:04:31.560 --> 0:04:33.960 number one. If you're not happy, figure out why you're 0:04:33.960 --> 0:04:34.520 not happy? 0:04:35.560 --> 0:04:36.400 Yeah, dig deep. 0:04:36.839 --> 0:04:38.720 There's a couple of quizzes I give you in this book. 0:04:38.760 --> 0:04:42.040 You can start by figuring out how strongly you identify. 0:04:41.640 --> 0:04:44.479 With this career, if you still want this to be part. 0:04:44.320 --> 0:04:46.159 Of who you are, if you wanted to define you, 0:04:46.560 --> 0:04:48.040 Then what are those steps you're going to need to 0:04:48.080 --> 0:04:50.360 take to actually figure out why you're not getting ahead, 0:04:50.400 --> 0:04:52.880 why you can't get promoted, you know, why people aren't 0:04:52.880 --> 0:04:55.640 communicating with you. And I think one kind of crucial 0:04:55.680 --> 0:04:57.440 part of this is taking a look in the mirror 0:04:57.760 --> 0:05:01.000 and actually asking yourself critical questions like am I taking 0:05:01.040 --> 0:05:04.560 on roles and responsibilities that maybe make me known to 0:05:04.640 --> 0:05:07.520 the boss, make me visible at work, but aren't actually 0:05:07.520 --> 0:05:11.800 helping me get ahead? Little communication gaps can be closed, 0:05:11.960 --> 0:05:14.839 like was I promised a job that wasn't delivered to me? 0:05:15.160 --> 0:05:17.280 At what stage was that promise made? 0:05:17.480 --> 0:05:17.720 You know? 0:05:17.920 --> 0:05:21.120 Where was that miscommunication kind of coming from? Did it 0:05:21.160 --> 0:05:24.720 start at the hiring stage, onboarding later on? Really kind 0:05:24.760 --> 0:05:27.880 of figuring out in that timeline of your career those 0:05:27.960 --> 0:05:31.280 problems started to occur, and how much of that is 0:05:31.600 --> 0:05:33.839 you to blame and how much of that is your career? 0:05:34.000 --> 0:05:37.279 Really treating your career as a relationship partner that you 0:05:37.279 --> 0:05:37.800 can kind. 0:05:37.640 --> 0:05:39.840 Of negotiate with to figure out what those things are. 0:05:40.200 --> 0:05:44.159 What happens if you have you're in a position where 0:05:44.880 --> 0:05:47.640 you have a manager that you feel is holding you back, 0:05:47.839 --> 0:05:48.640 how do you address that? 0:05:49.839 --> 0:05:50.680 I love that question. 0:05:51.200 --> 0:05:53.000 A lot of people can't get ahead because they have 0:05:53.080 --> 0:05:55.640 managers who love them, but who don't have the social 0:05:55.720 --> 0:05:57.520 status and power to actually get ahead. 0:05:57.839 --> 0:06:00.640 You need to network with other higher status people. 0:06:00.400 --> 0:06:02.039 At work, and I like to kind of go up 0:06:02.080 --> 0:06:05.960 and adjacent, so talking to other managers, you know, even 0:06:06.000 --> 0:06:09.200 outside of your immediate team, even outside of your function, 0:06:09.360 --> 0:06:13.200 to find out how much social capital your manager actually has, 0:06:13.400 --> 0:06:15.200 you know, if they want to promote you, how much 0:06:15.279 --> 0:06:17.719 voice do they have in those rooms where those decisions 0:06:17.760 --> 0:06:20.600 are being made? And you can ask very critical questions 0:06:20.680 --> 0:06:24.680 during performance feedback, during interviews around what is the process 0:06:24.680 --> 0:06:26.720 through which people are promoted here? How long do they 0:06:26.760 --> 0:06:29.640 need to work here? How critical is it that their manager, 0:06:30.040 --> 0:06:32.640 you know, has the social capital to make those things 0:06:32.640 --> 0:06:36.159 actually happen for them, early early on in that process, 0:06:36.279 --> 0:06:38.640 before you get to the point where you're realizing I 0:06:38.680 --> 0:06:40.640 have a manager who loves me and wants to promote me, 0:06:40.680 --> 0:06:42.400 but they have zero ability to do so. 0:06:42.600 --> 0:06:44.640 You know, in this environment, I feel like you know, 0:06:45.080 --> 0:06:47.000 or I feel like for years people have said, you know, 0:06:47.000 --> 0:06:48.719 it's great when you can do multiple things, that's a 0:06:48.720 --> 0:06:51.159 good thing. You take on more and more responsibility, more roles. 0:06:51.279 --> 0:06:53.599 Is that a good, gooder pad thing you think? 0:06:53.920 --> 0:06:55.680 In terms, I think it's a very dangerous thing. 0:06:56.120 --> 0:06:59.480 Why yeah, I think because we are in a kind 0:06:59.520 --> 0:07:03.800 of movement of busyness right now. We think more is 0:07:03.839 --> 0:07:06.320 better and a lot of managers are asking us to 0:07:06.360 --> 0:07:08.920 do this instead of getting really good. In a couple 0:07:08.960 --> 0:07:12.160 a handful of roles and tasks. We are spread too thin. 0:07:13.040 --> 0:07:15.640 We are taking on multiple things that don't add up 0:07:15.720 --> 0:07:19.560 to a path towards promotion or towards a raise, and 0:07:19.600 --> 0:07:22.080 we end up having resumes that look like we are 0:07:22.120 --> 0:07:24.800 all over the place. And one of the main criticisms 0:07:24.840 --> 0:07:27.680 I've heard from hiring managers is people have those resumes 0:07:27.680 --> 0:07:31.160 that say, you know, twenty twenty two through present, twenty 0:07:31.200 --> 0:07:34.440 twenty three through present fourteen times in a row on 0:07:34.480 --> 0:07:37.200 their resume, and it really looks like they have no 0:07:37.280 --> 0:07:39.680 idea what direction they're going in. They just say yes 0:07:39.720 --> 0:07:42.800 to everything an attempt to get ahead. So you have 0:07:42.880 --> 0:07:45.520 to exercise some restraint when it comes to taking on 0:07:45.560 --> 0:07:48.200 these roles and understanding how these roles can actually build 0:07:48.240 --> 0:07:51.080 on one another to help you climb up instead of 0:07:51.120 --> 0:07:53.360 just spreading you out in a million different directions. 0:07:54.160 --> 0:07:57.000 Okay, so one thing that we like to talk about 0:07:57.120 --> 0:08:01.040 is lessons not just for people who are employees, but 0:08:01.400 --> 0:08:03.400 and you know, who are targeted in the book, like 0:08:03.720 --> 0:08:08.080 don't necessarily like their jobs. What about lessons for managers 0:08:08.120 --> 0:08:11.200 who may have employees who aren't feeling like they're fulfilled 0:08:11.200 --> 0:08:13.840 at work. What lessons for managers can be taken away 0:08:13.880 --> 0:08:14.440 from the book. 0:08:15.440 --> 0:08:17.360 I think one of the more surprising things I learned 0:08:17.360 --> 0:08:19.480 in research for this book is that the signs that 0:08:19.480 --> 0:08:22.480 people are struggling, that they're having an identity crisis, that 0:08:22.520 --> 0:08:25.240 they're spread too thin, that they're drifting apart, are often 0:08:25.280 --> 0:08:27.440 the opposite of what we're trained to see. We're trying 0:08:27.480 --> 0:08:31.040 to look for disengagement, quiet quitting, but often those early 0:08:31.120 --> 0:08:34.240 signs are actually the opposite. When people are struggling with 0:08:34.280 --> 0:08:36.960 their identity, they're actually thinking of taking on a new career. 0:08:37.320 --> 0:08:39.840 They go all in at work, they take on more, 0:08:39.880 --> 0:08:42.520 they show up later. It's like an extinction burst. It's 0:08:42.559 --> 0:08:44.160 a little like when you're married and you go on 0:08:44.160 --> 0:08:46.160 a million dates right before you get a divorce to 0:08:46.200 --> 0:08:48.680 prove to yourself that you did everything you could. So 0:08:48.840 --> 0:08:51.080 managers actually need to learn to look out for some 0:08:51.120 --> 0:08:53.600 of those warning signs that I talk about that are 0:08:53.600 --> 0:08:56.960 often kind of things that are not in the zeitgeist. 0:08:56.960 --> 0:09:00.520 We're not talking about being really engaged when you're questioning 0:09:00.559 --> 0:09:03.520 your job, or being sensitive to intermit and reinforce manner, 0:09:03.800 --> 0:09:05.439 being on an emotional roller coaster. 0:09:05.559 --> 0:09:06.679 Those kinds of things. 0:09:08.080 --> 0:09:13.560 Interesting interesting. One of our fans of our show has said, 0:09:13.559 --> 0:09:15.240 you know, the most recent grads over four years of 0:09:15.240 --> 0:09:18.760 only notable market and hiring and hoarding of employees. So 0:09:18.760 --> 0:09:20.319 how do you deal with the stress of life once 0:09:20.360 --> 0:09:23.040 that cycle turns and we see unemployment tick up? I mean, 0:09:23.520 --> 0:09:25.839 doctor Wes just got about twenty five seconds. I mean, 0:09:25.840 --> 0:09:27.960 this has been a tight market. How does this stuff 0:09:28.080 --> 0:09:31.520 change when it's not so easy to leave a job 0:09:31.600 --> 0:09:32.680 just quickly, very quickly. 0:09:33.920 --> 0:09:36.160 You really have to be ready to ride that roller coaster. 0:09:36.320 --> 0:09:38.880 Don't read too much into one emotion that you're feeling, 0:09:39.080 --> 0:09:41.560 and whatever you do. Don't chase a job just because 0:09:41.600 --> 0:09:44.080 of the compensation package that comes along with it. Those 0:09:44.120 --> 0:09:46.920 things go up and down constantly. That shouldn't be your 0:09:46.960 --> 0:09:47.840 primary motivator. 0:09:47.840 --> 0:09:49.480 All right, got to leave it there, Doctor Tessa West, 0:09:49.480 --> 0:09:53.280 professor of psychology at NYU. Her new book Job Therapy, 0:09:53.360 --> 0:09:55.760 Finding Work that works for You. That fan of the 0:09:55.760 --> 0:09:57.400 show also says, you might like your job, but not 0:09:57.440 --> 0:09:58.839 your co host cough cough. 0:09:59.040 --> 0:09:59.480 Wow. 0:10:01.240 --> 0:10:05.640 This is Bloomberg Business Week inside from the reporters and 0:10:05.760 --> 0:10:09.360 editors who bring you America's most trusted business magazine, plus 0:10:09.440 --> 0:10:13.359 global business, finance and tech news as it happens. Bloomberg 0:10:13.400 --> 0:10:18.520 Business Week with Caro Messer and Tim Stenebeck on Bloomberg Radio. 0:10:19.480 --> 0:10:20.760 It is Bloomberg Business Week. 0:10:20.760 --> 0:10:22.319 I think it's fair to say, Carol, that a lot 0:10:22.320 --> 0:10:25.640 of consumers experience with the supply chain comes from when 0:10:25.640 --> 0:10:28.120 you can't get something absolutely right. They're like, oh, wait, 0:10:28.160 --> 0:10:29.679 this is going to take eight weeks to get Now, 0:10:29.679 --> 0:10:31.080 I'm interested in supply chains. 0:10:31.120 --> 0:10:31.400 It is. 0:10:31.400 --> 0:10:32.839 We all just assume it just shows up. 0:10:32.920 --> 0:10:35.040 Yeah, it's like during the great supply chain crunch that 0:10:35.080 --> 0:10:37.840 happened during COVID. As we know though, now, supply chains 0:10:37.880 --> 0:10:40.600 are incredibly complex and they're incredibly fragile. 0:10:40.720 --> 0:10:40.880 Yeah. 0:10:40.920 --> 0:10:43.520 Our next guest wants to modernize a specific part of 0:10:43.559 --> 0:10:47.040 the supply chain, material flow, the moving of raw materials 0:10:47.040 --> 0:10:50.400 and other components before they become things or those things 0:10:50.440 --> 0:10:52.600 that we all love to buy. And that's what he's doing. 0:10:52.760 --> 0:10:55.040 It's all happening at a company known as Maitra. 0:10:55.280 --> 0:10:58.360 It's a startup that's raised seventy eight million dollars. It's 0:10:58.360 --> 0:11:01.280 backed by companies including the food and drug retailer Albertson's. 0:11:01.360 --> 0:11:03.760 Chris Walty is co founder and CEO at Miitra, and 0:11:03.800 --> 0:11:07.800 he joins us from ore again, Chris, welcome. You've got 0:11:07.800 --> 0:11:10.640 a really interesting Yeah, you've got a really interesting career 0:11:10.880 --> 0:11:14.280 so far. Seven years more than seven years at Tesla. 0:11:14.320 --> 0:11:19.440 Before launching Miitra, you worked in mobile robotics. You ultimately 0:11:19.480 --> 0:11:23.839 worked for the humanoid, the Optimus humanoid robot during that time. 0:11:23.880 --> 0:11:26.760 What was the problem that you identified when you were 0:11:26.760 --> 0:11:29.160 at Tesla that you built Miitra to solve. 0:11:30.240 --> 0:11:34.160 Absolutely, yeah, so leading the material flow, specifically to help 0:11:34.200 --> 0:11:38.600 Model three off the production line, as you may have known, 0:11:38.640 --> 0:11:40.080 Elon called it production Hell. 0:11:40.160 --> 0:11:43.040 Oh yeah, he was sleeping on the floor of the factory. 0:11:43.920 --> 0:11:47.400 Yes, I think I've tripped over him a few times myself. 0:11:48.120 --> 0:11:51.400 It truly was challenging. It was a multi month, multi 0:11:51.480 --> 0:11:53.920 year effort to really get that spun up. And you know, 0:11:53.960 --> 0:11:57.560 one of the most common activities throughout the process, the 0:11:57.559 --> 0:12:00.000 one that I was ultimately put in charge of because 0:12:00.000 --> 0:12:02.760 as it was falling behind, was simply getting parts to 0:12:02.760 --> 0:12:06.240 the Model three assembly line. Moving and storing material within 0:12:06.240 --> 0:12:07.680 the factory was a huge channel. 0:12:07.679 --> 0:12:09.120 Okay, so wait, wait, so hold on, let me let's 0:12:09.160 --> 0:12:12.920 understand this. Your job was to get the parts they 0:12:12.960 --> 0:12:15.040 would come in from their suppliers or they would be 0:12:15.080 --> 0:12:18.280 fabricated there, and they would be stored in a certain area, 0:12:18.280 --> 0:12:20.920 and your job was to facilitate the transportation of those 0:12:21.200 --> 0:12:23.480 from wherever they were in the factory to the actual 0:12:23.520 --> 0:12:26.440 supply chain where it'd be assembled exactly. 0:12:26.600 --> 0:12:29.880 Yep. Just you know, think pallettes, move it from palettes 0:12:29.920 --> 0:12:32.520 down to cases and tots, breaking those apart, and then 0:12:32.600 --> 0:12:36.240 using things like conveyors and elevators to get them to 0:12:36.320 --> 0:12:38.400 exactly where they needed to be on the line. 0:12:38.520 --> 0:12:42.240 How does this not already happen, Well. 0:12:42.120 --> 0:12:45.280 It happens today in many factories. It happens through a 0:12:45.320 --> 0:12:48.320 lot of manual processes. In fact, forty percent of the 0:12:48.400 --> 0:12:52.760 labor in any manufacturing facility is really just moving things around, 0:12:53.120 --> 0:12:56.120 and that's that number increases to about eighty percent in 0:12:56.160 --> 0:12:59.520 a warehouse, and most of that is done the way 0:12:59.520 --> 0:13:03.120 it was seventy five years ago today through forklifts or 0:13:03.520 --> 0:13:04.960 people moving things manually. 0:13:05.840 --> 0:13:08.520 So what's the way that you can solve this and 0:13:08.840 --> 0:13:10.800 bring this up into the twenty first century? 0:13:11.800 --> 0:13:15.400 Absolutely so. The goal of our company is to develop 0:13:15.800 --> 0:13:19.400 the simplest mechanism possible to do the most amount of work, 0:13:19.400 --> 0:13:22.920 and that is simply moving material up to three thousand pounds. 0:13:23.520 --> 0:13:25.400 And when you think of a factory or warehouse, it's 0:13:25.400 --> 0:13:28.079 a large, volumetric open space. I think everyone's been in 0:13:28.160 --> 0:13:31.640 a costco before, right, you imagine just that lots of 0:13:31.679 --> 0:13:34.880 airspace with racks and palettes and a lot of that 0:13:36.120 --> 0:13:41.240 doesn't really require the sophistication and you know, horsepower of 0:13:41.679 --> 0:13:42.880 a person to do a lot of that. 0:13:42.960 --> 0:13:43.840 Yeah, that challenge. 0:13:43.880 --> 0:13:48.480 Amazon bought this company years ago, Kiva Systems, Is it right? 0:13:49.360 --> 0:13:51.800 Are you building something like if that's the image that 0:13:51.840 --> 0:13:53.960 people have in their head of how something moves across 0:13:53.960 --> 0:13:57.080 a warehouse floor, explain in the context of that, like 0:13:57.160 --> 0:13:58.320 use that as the reference point. 0:13:58.520 --> 0:13:59.760 How is your solution different? 0:14:00.440 --> 0:14:04.800 Certainly? Yeah, Kiva's a phenomenal System's really been beneficial to Amazon. 0:14:05.160 --> 0:14:07.680 What Kiva is really good at doing is bringing a 0:14:07.720 --> 0:14:11.480 lot of smaller bins parts to a particular area so 0:14:11.520 --> 0:14:13.200 that someone can pack it and put it in a 0:14:13.240 --> 0:14:16.880 parcel that is sent to probably your doorstep the next day. 0:14:17.679 --> 0:14:20.360 That said, in the supply chain, most of what moves 0:14:20.360 --> 0:14:22.960 around in the supply chain moves around on palletts. You 0:14:23.000 --> 0:14:25.800 look around, everything you see around you has probably been 0:14:25.840 --> 0:14:28.280 on a palette at some point or another. That's not really. 0:14:28.360 --> 0:14:30.720 You know Kiva's bread and butter, it's not really designed 0:14:30.800 --> 0:14:34.760 for what's called parcel fulfillment. Most of the supply chain 0:14:34.920 --> 0:14:40.000 needs palletts. Right our first customer, Albertson's, they run on pallets. 0:14:40.080 --> 0:14:43.360 Most industry runs on palletts. And so that's what we're 0:14:43.400 --> 0:14:46.240 moving around, and we're doing it in an extremely simple 0:14:46.440 --> 0:14:50.160 and efficient way using mobile robots that move in any direction. 0:14:50.320 --> 0:14:53.080 And it seems like your systems in terms of how 0:14:53.080 --> 0:14:55.600 they fit together, it's very simple, right, It's not a 0:14:55.640 --> 0:14:57.040 lot of moving parts to that. 0:14:58.320 --> 0:15:00.480 No, that was what I mean. It almost killed the 0:15:00.480 --> 0:15:03.160 company at Tesla. The amount of moving parts, the amount 0:15:03.160 --> 0:15:05.480 of things you had to plug in, commission, all of 0:15:05.480 --> 0:15:07.880 the motors, all of the sensors. At the scale of 0:15:07.920 --> 0:15:11.680 a warehouse, it's really challenging. And if you want to 0:15:11.680 --> 0:15:15.320 do full automation for these buildings today, that's kind of 0:15:15.320 --> 0:15:19.040 the state of the art. And that was what one 0:15:19.040 --> 0:15:22.640 of our biggest struggles at the company was led a 0:15:22.680 --> 0:15:26.680 team thereafter to try to build mobile robots to solve 0:15:27.360 --> 0:15:30.440 that problem at scale within Tesla, and now we're trying 0:15:30.480 --> 0:15:32.800 to do that for the rest of the industry and 0:15:32.920 --> 0:15:35.240 much more of of a green field approach effectively. 0:15:35.400 --> 0:15:37.920 Chris, you mentioned working with the Albertons. Who else are 0:15:37.960 --> 0:15:40.320 you working with? Give us an idea of kind of 0:15:40.360 --> 0:15:43.040 the different types of companies that you are working with, 0:15:43.080 --> 0:15:45.000 are planning to work with, our hope to work with. 0:15:45.960 --> 0:15:48.680 Certainly well, as I mentioned, every you know, supply chain 0:15:48.720 --> 0:15:51.320 moves runs on pallets. I mean every industry from consumer 0:15:51.360 --> 0:15:57.080 package goods to retail, pharmaceuticals of course, automotive, you know, 0:15:57.360 --> 0:16:01.560 home goods, you know, any of those folks can benefit 0:16:01.680 --> 0:16:04.200 from from our system at some point in their supply chain. 0:16:04.320 --> 0:16:07.840 So the folks that we're working with are you know, 0:16:07.880 --> 0:16:13.320 Fortune one hundred companies that have significant scale to apply 0:16:13.400 --> 0:16:16.120 this throughout their ecosystem. 0:16:17.320 --> 0:16:19.560 What type of investment does a company have to make 0:16:20.120 --> 0:16:23.560 if they want to integrate Mitra into their supply chain. 0:16:23.600 --> 0:16:25.600 Because I'm looking at the website. Carol and I were 0:16:25.600 --> 0:16:28.160 looking at it earlier in the day today as we 0:16:28.160 --> 0:16:30.800 were preparing for this. It's really really cool, but it 0:16:30.800 --> 0:16:34.280 also looks like it's a big investment. 0:16:34.920 --> 0:16:37.360 Sure, and that's one of the biggest challenges, right, I mean, 0:16:37.400 --> 0:16:40.480 if you're a supply chain company and it's challenging to 0:16:40.600 --> 0:16:43.920 know what what does your business. Look like five ten, 0:16:44.040 --> 0:16:46.920 even fifteen years from now, investing in a lot of 0:16:46.920 --> 0:16:49.720 these fixed automation systems like you know we had to 0:16:49.720 --> 0:16:53.200 put in at Tesla could be a bit challenging, and 0:16:53.280 --> 0:16:57.320 so what we've designed is a system that effectively, regardless 0:16:57.360 --> 0:17:00.400 of what your system needs to do five ten years now, 0:17:00.760 --> 0:17:04.119 can flex can change through software. You know, from a 0:17:04.160 --> 0:17:07.160 cost perspective, our north star was, look, you know, ninety 0:17:07.200 --> 0:17:10.880 five percent of these warehouses operate on pallets, pallette racks, 0:17:10.880 --> 0:17:14.040 and forklifts. You know, this has to be as easy 0:17:14.040 --> 0:17:17.160 to install and effectively as cost effective as a pallet 0:17:17.280 --> 0:17:21.640 rack and a forklift. So that is effectively our north star. 0:17:21.680 --> 0:17:24.439 That's what we're driving towards. And you do that through 0:17:24.520 --> 0:17:28.560 a very very simple system orders a magnitude more simple 0:17:28.600 --> 0:17:31.920 than than you know, the kind of fixed automation that's 0:17:31.920 --> 0:17:35.040 out there today. And so that's that's our north star. 0:17:35.200 --> 0:17:37.200 Chris, I want one of these for my basement. Basically, 0:17:37.520 --> 0:17:38.639 no like like you look. 0:17:38.520 --> 0:17:39.639 At how do you get it? How do you do 0:17:39.680 --> 0:17:41.800 you get it to the main floor? You got it. 0:17:41.600 --> 0:17:43.720 But it's this idea of like, you know, what you 0:17:43.760 --> 0:17:45.679 do in a basement with those metal shelvings and you 0:17:45.720 --> 0:17:48.080 try to like capital it's like this on steroids, And 0:17:48.119 --> 0:17:51.520 I understand it's a much more sophisticated system. Having said that, 0:17:51.560 --> 0:17:53.439 I think we're trying to get like what does this 0:17:53.560 --> 0:17:55.639 cost a company to do? And I understand this is 0:17:55.680 --> 0:17:57.920 one of those things that probably over time, but how 0:17:57.920 --> 0:17:59.280 expensive is a system like this? 0:18:00.800 --> 0:18:03.520 Certainly? So you know, when you look at on a 0:18:03.560 --> 0:18:07.400 cost per per pallette position or a cost per per 0:18:07.480 --> 0:18:10.240 palette stored, right, this is you know, our north Stars 0:18:10.359 --> 0:18:12.760 is pretty equivalent to what you would would need to 0:18:13.320 --> 0:18:16.240 spend to outfit your warehouse with you know, call it 0:18:16.280 --> 0:18:19.480 single deep pallete racking, which is I mean today those 0:18:19.520 --> 0:18:21.920 can be you know, one hundred to you know, seven 0:18:22.000 --> 0:18:24.800 hundred dollars a position. It's a pretty wide range and 0:18:24.840 --> 0:18:26.440 a lot of it depends on are you in an 0:18:26.440 --> 0:18:29.879 earthquake zone, are you you know, in an error area 0:18:29.880 --> 0:18:33.280 with hurricanes, et cetera. So it really, you know, the 0:18:33.359 --> 0:18:36.720 vast majority of the fixed infrastructure is just in a 0:18:36.840 --> 0:18:41.520 very simple steel rack. And that's a that's a it's 0:18:41.520 --> 0:18:44.159 a pretty well really it's just the cost of steel. Effectively, 0:18:44.920 --> 0:18:45.119 it's a. 0:18:45.080 --> 0:18:46.520 Pretty cool system, very very cool. 0:18:46.600 --> 0:18:48.879 Yeah, yeah, I highly recommend everybody check it out on 0:18:48.920 --> 0:18:51.280 the website. Well, keep in touch and let us know 0:18:51.280 --> 0:18:53.200 how things are going as you guys, as you continue 0:18:53.200 --> 0:18:56.520