Speaker 1: Alz Media, Hey everybody, Robert here, and the International Academy
Speaker 1: of Digital Arts and Sciences have announced that three different
Speaker 1: Cool Zone media shows have been nominated for awards at
Speaker 1: the thirtieth annual Webby Awards. You can vote on these
Speaker 1: now if you just google the name of the podcast
Speaker 1: and the category. Behind the Bastards has been nominated in
Speaker 1: the Experimental and Innovation Podcasts category. It Could Happen Here
Speaker 1: is in the News and Politics Podcasts category, and James
Speaker 1: Stout's mini series Migrating to America A Dream Worth Dying
Speaker 1: For has been nominated in the Podcasts Documentary category. And
Speaker 1: you can find links to vote for each of these
Speaker 1: podcasts in the episode description and in the posts on
Speaker 1: social media for episodes that It could Happen Here and
Speaker 1: Behind the Bastards. Thank you. Welcome back to Behind the Bastards,
Speaker 1: a podcast where I am presumably on vacation or at
Speaker 1: least working on a different series of episodes. And this week,
Speaker 1: as for the last three episodes, my good Pal Grammy
Speaker 1: Award winning Greasy Will this guy's here, Yeah is here
Speaker 1: to talk to us.
Speaker 2: This guy is here to talk to us about Part
Speaker 2: four of Phil Specter, which and to be To be fair,
Speaker 2: I've been drinking the whole time, but now I feel
Speaker 2: like this is a celebratory shot, which is out of
Speaker 2: the celebrations.
Speaker 1: We out two different recording days, folks.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I can get really because if we'd had
Speaker 2: to keep going on the first one, I just wanted
Speaker 2: to keep you alive. Yeah, which, by the way, I
Speaker 2: have some words for your viewers. Uh oh oh no,
Speaker 2: after the grammy hold on to take the shot first.
Speaker 2: Uh hey, guys, hey guys, how about how about let's
Speaker 2: not talk about my appearance.
Speaker 3: You know, these dark circles under my eyes are genetic.
Speaker 2: Every person in my family who has a drug or
Speaker 2: alcohol addiction gets them. So this is rude of you
Speaker 2: to just assume I'm drinking too much. Was adcast sorry
Speaker 2: for having fun?
Speaker 4: You know he's still got the job done.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I made it through. And then look what you
Speaker 2: got out of this. You got me saying dang, dude,
Speaker 2: I should tell them about Phil Spector because not everybody
Speaker 2: knows the whole story of Phil Spector and it's so
Speaker 2: incredibly interesting, which is where we will pick up after
Speaker 2: a word from these sponsors or whatever. Wow, some sponsors,
Speaker 2: and we're back I always wanted to say that. It
Speaker 2: felt right.
Speaker 4: You're so professional right now?
Speaker 2: Thanks, Yeah, I know. I'm actually I stream every week.
Speaker 5: I do.
Speaker 2: I spend a lot of time on the Internet. I'm
Speaker 2: so good at talking to nobody, so it's amazing to
Speaker 2: have somebody to actually talk back to Normally. It's just
Speaker 2: like the comment section on one of my stupid ass videos,
Speaker 2: which you know, don't so Phil Spector, Uh, he just
Speaker 2: had an article when the the I think this is
Speaker 2: one of the most insane cause and effects of history
Speaker 2: that has ever happened. Because Phil Spector, he has this
Speaker 2: journalist come and this journalist writes a piece on him
Speaker 2: for the U for Interview magazine or some I wrote
Speaker 2: it down, but I don't remember, so let's just pretend
Speaker 2: I said it. So he he writes an article for me,
Speaker 2: he puts it in this magazine and it comes out
Speaker 2: and Phil breaks his sobriety, loses it, starts drinking menacingly, right,
Speaker 2: he loses his mind. He's he's, he's kind of it's
Speaker 2: it's not a positive article. It's positive in the sense
Speaker 2: that it's like, hey, I'm talking about Phil Spector and relevant. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: but it's negative in the fact that, like Phil sees
Speaker 2: all the bad things that this guy says about him,
Speaker 2: and he starts drinking again, and he finds himself on
Speaker 2: the night of February second, two thousand and three, at
Speaker 2: the House of Blues. This is where he will run
Speaker 2: into Lana Clarkson. And I feel as though we do not.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's hard to give victims as much attention
Speaker 2: as they deserve, right, It's like, that's that's that's a
Speaker 2: very difficult thing because the interesting part of this whole
Speaker 2: thing is that Phil Specter is fucking insane and this
Speaker 2: was a fairly normal Los Angeles person living their life,
Speaker 2: and so it's like the bulk of the story lies
Speaker 2: on crazy boy, right. So yeah, I do want to
Speaker 2: spend just a moment first off, to show you Lana
Speaker 2: Clarkson beautiful. She's beautiful.
Speaker 3: This is her a like almost forty years old, probably.
Speaker 2: She is a beautiful woman. She was an actress, She
Speaker 2: worked in Hollywood. She friends, had many friends, She had
Speaker 2: a lot of friends. A lot of people remembered her
Speaker 2: lovingly when she was gone. All right, so this is
Speaker 2: our story of Lana Clarkson. Lana Clarkson was born on
Speaker 2: April fifth, nineteen sixty two in Long Beach, California, and
Speaker 2: she grew up in the southern California endless orbit of Hollywood.
Speaker 2: You know, it's like the industry always feels really close
Speaker 2: to you when you're in Los Angeles, no matter what
Speaker 2: suburb you in, it feels like you're you're not far
Speaker 2: from the big leagues. Right from an early age, she
Speaker 2: gravitated towards performance, and at six feet tall, she had
Speaker 2: a striking presence that made her hard to ignore. Like
Speaker 2: many Angelino's, Clarkson absorbed the idea that Hollywood rewarded persistence
Speaker 2: and if you stayed visible long enough, something would eventually
Speaker 2: break your way. And I think that's a very reasonable
Speaker 2: Los Angeles feel. It's like, you know, there is a
Speaker 2: lot of there's a lot of hey, you could make
Speaker 2: it at any time, I'm here kind of feels.
Speaker 1: And it's it's true in that, like it is the
Speaker 1: only way people who aren't born into the industry or
Speaker 1: whatever succeed. But if you are not a nettle baby, right,
Speaker 1: this is the only thing that works. But also it
Speaker 1: still fails for ninety percent of people.
Speaker 2: To guess, I mean, yeah, I'm being yeah, yeah, that
Speaker 2: very optruistic.
Speaker 3: Yes, it's it's not. It does not go well for
Speaker 3: a lot of people.
Speaker 1: But no, I mean, yeah, we're sitting here as two
Speaker 1: of the people in our own fields who like managed
Speaker 1: to make it through that ninety nine percent thing. And
Speaker 1: it is like, I know that a lot of people who, yes,
Speaker 1: you know, wound up somewhere else.
Speaker 2: I went to school with like seventy five people, and
Speaker 2: I know one of them that still has a job
Speaker 2: in the audio world. And that is just the I know,
Speaker 2: the class before me, the class after me. I know, like,
Speaker 2: I know hundreds of people that came in with me,
Speaker 2: and I know none of them still having job.
Speaker 1: It's wonderful to tell people to chase their dreams. You're
Speaker 1: also so you don't lie to them when you do it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you can chase your dreams for a while, you know,
Speaker 1: have an exit plan, have a gamble.
Speaker 2: Just rationalize, rationalize to yourself, like, here's the thing, right,
Speaker 2: this is what I tell people about this, which I
Speaker 2: think is the best advice. If you're the type of
Speaker 2: person who when people tell them you're never gonna make it,
Speaker 2: go like no, no, no, that's you. I make it.
Speaker 2: I do it. No one can tell me. In fact,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna do it three times as hard because you
Speaker 2: said I couldn't. Then maybe this life is for you.
Speaker 2: Maybe if you thrive on people telling you know, and
Speaker 2: you think that that's the coolest thing ever, and you
Speaker 2: just want to shove it in their face, you are
Speaker 2: you don't know anything. I'm going to spite you. Third wife,
Speaker 2: second wife. Yeah, all right. So by the nearly early
Speaker 2: nineteen eighties, she is landing small parts. She's getting some
Speaker 2: brief exposure in mainstream productions. She's in Fast Times at
Speaker 2: Richmond High. She's a little little background character in there.
Speaker 5: You know her.
Speaker 2: Her steadier work came in genre films, where she became
Speaker 2: recognizable to audiences through fantasy and cult B movies such
Speaker 2: as Barbarian Queen, Barbarian Queen two and Death Stalker Feels
Speaker 2: Very You might remember me from such works as Barbarian,
Speaker 2: Barbarian Queen two, Death these are these are super B
Speaker 2: movie type things. In later years, we get weird about
Speaker 2: saying B movies as though we're supposed to call them
Speaker 2: like lesser grade movies. I don't know what lesser off market.
Speaker 2: I don't know what. It's weird. They're b movies. I
Speaker 2: don't know why that suddenly got pc in any way.
Speaker 2: And I'm ranting about this right now because it made
Speaker 2: me mad.
Speaker 1: It was okay, oh, it.
Speaker 2: Made me mad. There was a bunch of articles that
Speaker 2: I read about Lona Clarkson specifically that were like, you
Speaker 2: should call her a B movie actress. That's degrading, and
Speaker 2: I'm like, that's just no love to be We called
Speaker 2: Bruce Campbell right being reactor, right exactly anyway, Campbell anyway. So,
Speaker 2: but so Barbarian Queen was actually produced by Robin Corman,
Speaker 2: who did the original of the nineteen sixty Little Shop
Speaker 2: of Horror. So it wasn't They're not like a prestigeal.
Speaker 2: But she's connected.
Speaker 1: She's doing well yeah and Carman Yeah, that's nobody. Yeah yeah.
Speaker 2: And they gave her a foothold in the industry and
Speaker 2: a loyal cult following too. She's like an early comic book,
Speaker 2: you know, comic con type thing, you know, like shees
Speaker 2: show up to those things and all the nerds are like,
Speaker 2: Barbarian Queen. Uh, she does kind of. She's type cast, right,
Speaker 2: She's a six foot tall, beautiful blonde woman. She is
Speaker 2: very much type cast as either the like the warrior
Speaker 2: queen or the bimbo. Right, She's like she's in those
Speaker 2: two categories. And you know, when you start reaching your
Speaker 2: forties that that's a tough one because you're not physically
Speaker 2: the same as you were when you were in your
Speaker 2: twenties doing you know, action movies, swinging stories around and everything.
Speaker 2: And also you know, it's like as the bimbo role,
Speaker 2: it's like you're starting to look older, right of course,
Speaker 2: And I'm not trying to be derogatatory toy. It's just
Speaker 2: the industry we live in. It's an honest thing that
Speaker 2: we have. You know, it's Hollywood. So as the years
Speaker 2: passed though, she leans into the identity and she's attending
Speaker 2: comic and genre conventions where she signs autographs and she
Speaker 2: stays connected to her fans. She has a website in
Speaker 2: the early two thousands, which is something you know, like
Speaker 2: you're connecting that that's the you know, the heartbeat of
Speaker 2: nerds if you had a website in the early two thousands.
Speaker 2: But you know, Hollywood has a way of quietly moving
Speaker 2: on from people, and as the directive video boom of
Speaker 2: the eighties faded, so did many of the roles that
Speaker 2: had sustained her. Her career didn't collapse so much as
Speaker 2: just narrow. You know, it's a slow erosion of opportunity.
Speaker 2: And everybody in la was going it goes through it.
Speaker 2: You know, it's like there's just less roles for the old,
Speaker 2: older woman than there is for the young buxom beauty
Speaker 2: or whatever. You know. In the early two thousands, while
Speaker 2: at a house party, she's dancing in her high heels
Speaker 2: and she slips and falls, breaking both of her wrisk.
Speaker 2: The accident derailed her acting career because of course you're
Speaker 2: not You're not going to auditions with two two broken
Speaker 2: risks or whatever. And and and you know she's starting
Speaker 2: to see her career kind of slip away. You can't
Speaker 2: in the in the world, in this world, in the
Speaker 2: all the entertainment, you can't take a break, Robert. You
Speaker 2: know that you work yep seven hundred days a year. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you are working like you are a busy bee over
Speaker 2: there doing episodes all the time, which is why I'm here.
Speaker 2: You alive, yes, and you have an amazing productive output.
Speaker 2: But it is you know, if you were to force
Speaker 2: to take a long break, you know, it could damage
Speaker 2: your career because people move on. You know, that's just
Speaker 2: the fact of what happens. Yeah, So she begins pivoting
Speaker 2: to comedy. She starts writing her own stand up act,
Speaker 2: and like she's trying to do other things like get
Speaker 2: out of her type cast. Around two thousand and two,
Speaker 2: while Clarkson was still pursuing acting, she takes a job
Speaker 2: at the House of Blues on Sunset Strip. She gets
Speaker 2: a job working in the Foundation room upstairs, which is
Speaker 2: where musicians and industry figures and celebrities are all kind
Speaker 2: of hanging out. It's the VIP room of the Hollywood
Speaker 2: Sunset Strip. Like, so you know, it's a good place
Speaker 2: to be still being connected, right, Yeah. Like many who
Speaker 2: took those jobs, she understood that proximity could still mean possibility,
Speaker 2: and she hoped that meeting the right person might reopen
Speaker 2: doors that had quietly closed. It was the kind of
Speaker 2: compromise that Hollywood encourages you to, like stay close enough
Speaker 2: to the spotlight so you can kind of, you know,
Speaker 2: be in proximity of good things happening. If you spent
Speaker 2: any time in any entertainment industry at all, like you
Speaker 2: get what's going on. Like some sometimes the phone just
Speaker 2: stops ringing, and you got to start hustling in different ways.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Right, on the night of February second, Clarkson was working there.
Speaker 2: And she's still holding onto the idea that her story
Speaker 2: in Hollywood isn't finished. She's forty years old, but she's
Speaker 2: still hopeful, still recognizable in certain circles, and still navigating
Speaker 2: that fragile space between past visibility and future chance. The
Speaker 2: night she met Phil Spector that would, you know, bring
Speaker 2: her into infamy for the rest of her life, but
Speaker 2: obviously for the worst reason. Yeah, Lana's story is the
Speaker 2: story of a billion people, right, It's like we've seen
Speaker 2: so many of these, you know, they flicker for a
Speaker 2: little bit, but they you know, it's it's hard. This
Speaker 2: is a hard city. There is not a lot of
Speaker 2: room to have a billion Robert Downey juniors, right, we
Speaker 2: need right, like people will come and go. That's how
Speaker 2: it's hard. It's harder for a woman probably, you know,
Speaker 2: like this town chows people up and spitzer out. So
Speaker 2: but she's still hopeful. She is writing on her blogs
Speaker 2: really hopeful things all the time. I'm excited about this.
Speaker 2: I wanted to there's no there's no air of like
Speaker 2: sadness around what is going on. And this is important
Speaker 2: because she's about to end up dead and there's going
Speaker 2: to be a lot of doubt cast upon her mental
Speaker 2: state at this time. But yeah, seemingly she's a very
Speaker 2: happy person, still believes in like the best will come
Speaker 2: for her.
Speaker 6: Right.
Speaker 2: When Clarkson first encountered Spector, she miss she reportedly mistook
Speaker 2: him for a woman.
Speaker 3: Keep in mind, she's she's six foot tall. He's five
Speaker 3: foot four.
Speaker 2: He's wearing big wigs and like dressing all crazy, like
Speaker 2: he's got platform heels and shit, why is.
Speaker 1: He wearing because he wants to be taller. Yeah, of
Speaker 1: course she mistakes him. Yes, that makes sense.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he looks like an old woman in Hollywood. Yeah,
Speaker 2: by this time, he's like he's wearing elaborate wigs and
Speaker 2: eccentric clothing and his theatrical presentation kind of become a
Speaker 2: part of his public persona. All right, he walked, He
Speaker 2: walks right into the Foundation Room, no hesitation, just like
Speaker 2: walks straight in there. And this is a high class
Speaker 2: VIP area. So Lana Clarkson, being the hostess of the
Speaker 2: Foundation Room, is like, hey, o hey, ma'am, missus, lady,
Speaker 2: you know. She's like trying to stop him from walking
Speaker 2: to know who he is, and he gives her the
Speaker 2: old don't you know who I am? I'm not a
Speaker 2: missus like I'm Phil fucking Specter. Now, keep in mind,
Speaker 2: is fucking two thousand and three, right, Yeah, it was
Speaker 2: in the seventies. It's been a minute, right, two whole
Speaker 2: generations have come and gone of people no longer listening
Speaker 2: to his music regularly.
Speaker 3: So it's like nobody knows who he is, and you know,
Speaker 3: and this is a very classic la you.
Speaker 2: Don't know who I am? You know who I am.
Speaker 2: I can't believe you don't know who I am?
Speaker 7: Has happened to anybody who encountered somebody who was even
Speaker 7: slightly famous in Los Angeles.
Speaker 2: That you So I wanted to tell this side story
Speaker 2: because it was one of the funniest things that's ever
Speaker 2: happened to me in the industry. I had a guy
Speaker 2: say that to me, you don't know who I am?
Speaker 2: And I said, I said no, and I know tons
Speaker 2: of people, so that is so embarrassing for you. And
Speaker 2: they were like, and they were like, what's your name?
Speaker 2: You're never gonna work in this town again. And I
Speaker 2: was like my name greasy wheler man, write it down,
Speaker 2: take a picture. I don't give a fuck, do you know?
Speaker 2: And I was like, I hear that so often. It
Speaker 2: means nothing. It's lost all meaning to me. And he
Speaker 2: turns out. So it turns out. The next day he
Speaker 2: calls my last boss, the boss that I had at
Speaker 2: the time working at the studio. He calls her and
Speaker 2: she says, and this is a quote from her direct quote,
Speaker 2: Kandas Stewart, she's the homie. She said, you know that
Speaker 2: guy's killed people before. You should probably you should probably
Speaker 2: not anger him.
Speaker 1: Beefing with Sugar night.
Speaker 8: No context of or anything, just you know that guy's
Speaker 8: killed people, right, No?
Speaker 2: How not? Why not? Where?
Speaker 5: All? Right?
Speaker 2: So Lana's manager steps into the situation, you know, the heat,
Speaker 2: Phil loses his mind. Manager steps in, Sorry, mister specter,
Speaker 2: we got to the table for you. Let's put you
Speaker 2: down like we got everything. And Lana is super embarrassed,
Speaker 2: she's super apologetic, like she's pretty new to the job still,
Speaker 2: she hasn't been working there long and uh, and you
Speaker 2: know she's trying, she's doing this to meet people, and
Speaker 2: now she's just angered of what she perceives to be
Speaker 2: a very powerful person.
Speaker 8: But again, it's like early two thousands. How was she
Speaker 8: supposed to know who Phil Spector is?
Speaker 2: One hundred percent? One hundred percent? So she's trying to
Speaker 2: make up for it. She does her best to try
Speaker 2: and like give him extra attention, oh, mister Spector. And
Speaker 2: Phil seems to really enjoy getting this, like, oh, now
Speaker 2: you care about who I am feeling? You know, it's like,
Speaker 2: you know, he seems to really feel empowered by the
Speaker 2: whole thing. Uh, the waitress, if you remember, he goes
Speaker 2: he went to Dantanna's with another date, a high school friend.
Speaker 2: Then he takes her home because she's like, I don't
Speaker 2: I don't want to get lit anymore. And he was
Speaker 2: like all right, So he takes her home, and then
Speaker 2: he comes back and starts drinking with the waitress, right,
Speaker 2: and then he takes the waitress to the House of Blues,
Speaker 2: and then at the House of Blues, the waitress is like,
Speaker 2: I don't want to drink anymore. I need to go home.
Speaker 2: I gotta work tomorrow. Right, It's it's like late, it's
Speaker 2: near closing time. He comes in, like very close to
Speaker 2: closing time, and it's late. It's like almost two am,
Speaker 2: and she's like, I'm trying to go home. So Phil's like,
Speaker 2: go go have my driver to make you home. Get
Speaker 2: the fuck out of here. I don't want to be
Speaker 2: seen with somebody not drinking. He's like making fun of her.
Speaker 2: He's like mad that she wants she orders the water.
Speaker 2: He's like, nobody drinks water around me? Are you crazy? Party?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: You know, want a party, you know. So so he
Speaker 2: sends her home and then he starts trying to put
Speaker 2: his moves on Lana Clarkson. Right. She's now she's in
Speaker 2: a position of very serious power imbalance. You know, this
Speaker 2: is this is a very Weinstein esque power imbalance where
Speaker 2: now she not only is she you know, trying to
Speaker 2: make things up to him, but he's also feeling the
Speaker 2: joy of being in that situation and pushing things even further.
Speaker 2: He's like, yeah, have it, sit down, have a drink
Speaker 2: with me, and she's like, I can't. My boss says no.
Speaker 2: He's like, tell your boss that I'll leave if if
Speaker 2: you don't sit down and have a drink, like you know,
Speaker 2: like he's he's going off on this ship.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and he really has never gotten used to not
Speaker 1: having that much power.
Speaker 2: Yes, like, yeah, yeah, for sure, he still enjoys it.
Speaker 2: Like for some people it gets to that point like, bro,
Speaker 2: it's not even like fun anymore. I only want to
Speaker 2: like I just want to be left alone, you know.
Speaker 2: But for him, he clearly still is like yes, so yeah,
Speaker 2: you know, I'm sure Lana led on that she was
Speaker 2: an actress probably during the conversations, because that's what you do, right,
Speaker 2: You've seen this situation a thousand times in Hollywood, because
Speaker 2: that's networking. That's what would you believe networking.
Speaker 3: Is anyway, So he's telling, you know her, come back
Speaker 3: to my place.
Speaker 2: Come back to my place. Is almost closing time. We
Speaker 2: got to get out of here. Let's come back to
Speaker 2: my place in Alhambra. We'll talk about things. I'll show
Speaker 2: you some stuff. Phil notoriously loved taking people to his
Speaker 2: house and showing him his like five seconds in Easy
Speaker 2: Rider all the time and being like not send them
Speaker 2: a baby. So I'm sure he was like, you know,
Speaker 2: I was an easy Rider, right, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: Is not close.
Speaker 2: So so the distance between the House of Blues and
Speaker 2: Alhambra is far it is.
Speaker 8: That's not closed.
Speaker 2: That's far far far, right, It's like, yeah, this and
Speaker 2: this is important to this conversation because at two o'clock
Speaker 2: in the morning, you don't leave.
Speaker 3: Your safety network with an extremely.
Speaker 2: Intoxicated man, no matter who it is, unless you're not
Speaker 2: feeling a bit like I got to take a chance
Speaker 2: on this, like this might be an opportunity for me,
Speaker 2: you know. And this is this is very clad. This
Speaker 2: is just just power balance, you know, It's just what
Speaker 2: it is. It's how it's how Hollywood operated for a
Speaker 2: long long time, and it's only now starting to get
Speaker 2: even the tiniest bit. Better follow me for no more
Speaker 2: inside stories of the horrible things that happen in this town.
Speaker 2: All right, So she's thirty thirty miles away. You know,
Speaker 2: they're going to get into his car and drive down Hombro.
Speaker 2: She has to be, according to everybody, she has to
Speaker 2: be really coerced. She does not want to do this.
Speaker 2: But Phil keeps being like, yeah, come on, come on,
Speaker 2: come on, let's do it. Let's do it, right. But
Speaker 2: also keeping mind that Phil is shit housed right now.
Speaker 2: Like he is a tiny man. He's maybe one hundred
Speaker 2: and forty pounds, maybe like one hundred and thirty pounds,
Speaker 2: Like he's five foot barely nothing, you know, like, and
Speaker 2: he's been drinking Navy grogs all night.
Speaker 3: If you've never had a navy grog, it's mostly alcohol.
Speaker 2: It's almost all.
Speaker 5: Out that.
Speaker 8: Just thinking about a navy Yeah, it's but also le yes,
Speaker 8: but it's a lot.
Speaker 2: It's a lot of alcohol. And he's been drinking them
Speaker 2: all night, right. Uh, he's slurring his words and and
Speaker 2: you know, even when he's not slurring, he's pretty not
Speaker 2: like when he's not drunk, he's like pretty not understandable
Speaker 2: to begin, And I want to show because so I
Speaker 2: want to show this. Uh, I need you to understand.
Speaker 2: This is what he's like when he's sober. This is
Speaker 2: an interview he gave, and this is the types of
Speaker 2: things he says and how he sounds when he is sober.
Speaker 1: Excellent. Did you even realize that Mickey Mouse was a
Speaker 1: black man?
Speaker 5: Mickey Mouse was the first black movie star before Shirley Gemble,
Speaker 5: discovered by Walt Disney, the first black star.
Speaker 2: To win an Academy Award.
Speaker 5: He was black, he wasn't mine, and he was black
Speaker 5: movie he was movies black movie stars.
Speaker 1: And that was before during segregation. All the people were
Speaker 1: going to see it.
Speaker 5: And he didn't talk on an accent, and it was
Speaker 5: Walt Disney's voice, and nobody pays any attention to that.
Speaker 3: He broke the.
Speaker 2: Color line before anybody.
Speaker 4: Wow, I have a lot of notes on that.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, do you Robert, please tell me tell me
Speaker 3: about the notes.
Speaker 1: Sounds like he's saying he was the first black movie
Speaker 1: star before Shirley Temple. Yes, that's right. Kind of sounds
Speaker 1: like you're saying Shirley Temple was a black movie star.
Speaker 2: She was not. She was face not black, right, but
Speaker 2: all right, no, here's here's all right. So that's one
Speaker 2: I think. I think. I think that Phil is making
Speaker 2: a joke because later in her life Shirley Temple took
Speaker 2: the name Shirley temp She made a man named Charles
Speaker 2: Black and took the name Shirley Top.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, that's the joke.
Speaker 2: I think he's making a joke, right.
Speaker 1: Okay, But well, and you know, because there's there's this
Speaker 1: whole thing where like Mickey Mouse, I think there's an
Speaker 1: argument to be made. Is kind of like his character
Speaker 1: is based in part on designs from like minstrel show,
Speaker 1: right right right? I thought maybe that was the argument
Speaker 1: he was making.
Speaker 3: Even weirder, Oh, I got so he is like, that's
Speaker 3: what he sounds like.
Speaker 2: Sober, right, you can imagine this dude, twelve navy grogs
Speaker 2: deep at two thirty in the morning is legible.
Speaker 1: It's like trying to It's like trying to decipher ancient.
Speaker 1: To Syrian, yes, all of all of his all of
Speaker 1: the secure already. Footage shows him leaving the club stumbling right.
Speaker 2: He gets in his car. He calls Lana over. She
Speaker 2: finally is like, okay, fine. They arrive at his house
Speaker 2: around three am after closing down the House of Blues,
Speaker 2: and Fill and Lana go inside and are inside for
Speaker 2: about two hours. When outside Phil's limo driver, Adriano desuze
Speaker 2: here's a loud noise. He gets out of his car
Speaker 2: and sees Phil walking out the front door of his
Speaker 2: house holding a revolver. He says to Adriano, I think
Speaker 2: I've killed somebody. Uh you you should listen to the
Speaker 2: nine one one tapes. I did not get them because
Speaker 2: I'm a hack and a fraud. Just like you know,
Speaker 2: it's a lot of work and remembering is hard. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you should listen to the nine one one. Because Adriano
Speaker 2: gets on there. He says, I think my boss killed somebody,
Speaker 2: and they're like, what makes you think that? He's like,
Speaker 2: he fucking said.
Speaker 1: It killed somebody. Also, by the way, quick piece of
Speaker 1: advice for those of you who are going to kill somebody,
Speaker 1: don't say you killed somebody.
Speaker 2: Don't say you killed somebody. Not a brilliant move, not
Speaker 2: exactly what I consider it to be the most eligent
Speaker 2: way to get out of a crime.
Speaker 1: Just one simple change you can make to your murders
Speaker 1: to have better, better responses to them, folks. That's all
Speaker 1: I'm saying. Yeah, yeah, yeah, literally, yeah, it's just one
Speaker 1: little change when you kill someone.
Speaker 2: A little little legal advice here, legal advice I should
Speaker 2: have made that.
Speaker 1: That's not a lawyer, but I bet a lawyer will
Speaker 1: agree with me. Don't say you murdered someone.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna make you a jingle for like the next one.
Speaker 2: That's like not actually legal advice.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Adriano is just a little backstory on him. He is
Speaker 2: a an immigrant. He's I believe Brazilian immigrant. Uh and
Speaker 2: he uh he speaks English extremely well for somebody who
Speaker 2: has a Brazilian immigrant. He definitely has an accent without
Speaker 2: a doubt. But this will be called into into you know,
Speaker 2: the testimony. For a lot of you, there will be
Speaker 2: a lot of questions about how much he understands English
Speaker 2: during this time, but if you listen to the nine
Speaker 2: one one to TAKEE, he clearly has a good ad
Speaker 2: grasp of English. He tries to call his you know,
Speaker 2: Michelle Blaine, his Phil's manager or whatever, but she doesn't answer,
Speaker 2: and she says later is like the only night she's
Speaker 2: ever left her phone in the car, which is really
Speaker 2: really funny to me because I actually picture that she
Speaker 2: was like just like for one night, like I'm not
Speaker 2: answering Phil's fucking phone calls. This guy's crazy, because she
Speaker 2: does say he's always calling her in the middle of
Speaker 2: all of his assistants, Like, yeah, Phil calls me in
Speaker 2: the middle of the night just to like be like
Speaker 2: what are you doing? You know, So I'm sure she
Speaker 2: was like, I left my phone in the car, but aside, right,
Speaker 2: the cops show up and they don't really know what's
Speaker 2: going on. They just there's a gun. Somebody's been killed.
Speaker 2: So they show up and Phil first. They pull up
Speaker 2: and Phil is inside his house just pacing back and forth,
Speaker 2: and they do a standard tactical approach, which makes perfect
Speaker 2: fucking sense. And Phil comes outside and he's just rare
Speaker 2: umbling incoherently. They're like stir get down on the ground,
Speaker 2: and he's like, oh fuck, I didn't do anything, you know,
Speaker 2: Like he's just like rambling. He's visibly intoxic and he's
Speaker 2: really trashed, right, But then he starts to be like, hey, guys,
Speaker 2: you got to check this out, this woman, you know,
Speaker 2: like he like he starts playing like the worst dumb
Speaker 2: angle that I've ever seen, where it was like, hey,
Speaker 2: you guys, gotta tell you, guys, you want to see
Speaker 2: this dead body. And he keeps trying to stick his
Speaker 2: hands in his pockets, and at this point the cops
Speaker 2: have no idea what's going on. They keep being like,
Speaker 2: take your hands out of your pocket, take your hands
Speaker 2: out right, but never you won't dance, yes, yeah for cops,
Speaker 2: Yes for sure. Hey these are my hands, they're here,
Speaker 2: look right here, look at them police video.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 2: So he won't do it. He keeps sticking his hands
Speaker 2: and uh in his pockets and they shoot him with
Speaker 2: a taser and.
Speaker 1: I don't know, I guess he doesn't get to do that.
Speaker 2: I don't know if the taser bounced off of him
Speaker 2: and he just got an unlucky like shot out of
Speaker 2: the taser, or if Phil is just like in Hulk
Speaker 2: mode at that point or whatever. They just say the
Speaker 2: taser is ineffective in all the sources, right, So I
Speaker 2: don't know if he just is like, you know, they
Speaker 2: got hurts.
Speaker 1: I've known a couple of people that happened to I've
Speaker 1: know someone who ripped the leads out, so it does
Speaker 1: happen from me.
Speaker 2: I knew a guy who ripped the leads out and
Speaker 2: then broke two cop dog's legs and was charged for
Speaker 2: attempted murder. So no surprise there, right, And he was
Speaker 2: on a herculean amount of alcohol at the time.
Speaker 3: That makes sense, maybe a little myth who's saying, you know,
Speaker 3: but yeah, point.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, So who else is on a little bit
Speaker 1: of meth?
Speaker 2: Well, a herculean amount probably according to my research, the
Speaker 2: sponsors of this show.
Speaker 3: Let's cut to him, and we're back.
Speaker 2: We're the most back, and we are. Philis just walked
Speaker 2: out of his house with a dead Lina clarks In
Speaker 2: in the foyer of his In the foyer, I'm gonna say,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna say, foyer, you know, I want to I
Speaker 2: want to class it up a.
Speaker 1: Little bit a year, just to really throw a year.
Speaker 2: Yes, solid people are gonna love that pronunciation. There won't
Speaker 2: be a subreddit about that, all right.
Speaker 3: So so they're mad. They tried to shoot him with
Speaker 3: the taser.
Speaker 2: Phil won't go down.
Speaker 1: It didn't work, didn't take And.
Speaker 2: So the front cop has one of those big, like
Speaker 2: forty pound shields and they just rush him with this shield.
Speaker 2: Keep again your mind again, that is like a third
Speaker 2: of Phil Specter's body weight easily, so they fuck him up.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that does not surprise me. Yeah, I bet that
Speaker 1: shield wad more needed.
Speaker 2: Inside the house, the cops find Lina clarks And slumped
Speaker 2: over in a chair with by the front entrance. There's
Speaker 2: a gun by her left foot and blood splatter all
Speaker 2: over her shirt and her skirt. There's an open drawer
Speaker 2: beside her and an empty leather holster matching the gun
Speaker 2: that is at her feet. On the floor are her
Speaker 2: front teeth, which have been knocked out of her mouth
Speaker 2: up the muzzle of the god.
Speaker 1: At first look, exactly the way you wouldn't shoot yourself.
Speaker 2: Yes, but at first look it does appear as though
Speaker 2: Lana Clarkson has possibly killed herself.
Speaker 1: Sure it certainly, yeah, yeah, yeah, of course, but of.
Speaker 2: Course Phil can't shut the fuck up, right, which sure naturally,
Speaker 2: you know, so he started, he's he's and one cop
Speaker 2: has the presence of mind to start an audio recorder
Speaker 2: sets it aside, and he's like, would I believe it?
Speaker 2: Like she just her head just did that, you know,
Speaker 2: like just nothing, I didn't do anything. I can't believe
Speaker 2: this woman came into my house like this. Right, he's
Speaker 2: like losing his mind. He's talking all sorts of shit,
Speaker 2: but like cops are like, okay, well we're I mean,
Speaker 2: we're gonna at least take you to jail, collect some evidence,
Speaker 2: do due diligence. Even though believable enough of a story,
Speaker 2: but we'll we'll get to why it falls apart. Pretty
Speaker 2: it gets pretty flimsy. Sure, he's taken to jail. He's
Speaker 2: talking like most of the time, and then suddenly he said,
Speaker 2: and he says stuff like, oh, she kissed the gun,
Speaker 2: you know, like he says like weird stuff like that.
Speaker 2: But his stories are just like intertwining. It's like he's
Speaker 2: he's inventing the narrative as this is happening, as he's
Speaker 2: being questioned as they're talking to him, he's inventing the
Speaker 2: narrative and just seeing what makes sense, you know, what
Speaker 2: people react to. It seems like he's a bit of
Speaker 2: like a choose your own adventure game over here, and
Speaker 2: he's like, if the CoP's eyebrows go up, turn the
Speaker 2: page ninety seven, you know so. But eventually he does
Speaker 2: start sobering up and realizes he should shut the fuck up,
Speaker 2: which he does, and the next day he gets He's
Speaker 2: bails himself out on a one million dollar bond. Of
Speaker 2: course he has that money, so ye. Michelle Blaine, his assistant,
Speaker 2: and Phil the up in a hotel because the police
Speaker 2: are searching his house and conducting a thorough investigation. Immediately,
Speaker 2: the cop on the sea, the cop, the detective that's
Speaker 2: assigned to the case. He immediately realizes that this is
Speaker 2: going to be under intense scrutiny. So he unlike many
Speaker 2: of the other court cases that are famous for this time,
Speaker 2: we're Oj Simpson just happened, Robert Blake just happened. A
Speaker 2: lot of botched fucking police work in these cases, intentionally
Speaker 2: or not. Who knows. OJ's son probably killed him anyway,
Speaker 2: So he recognizes, I better do things by the book,
Speaker 2: I better do things right, right, So he starts suspecting Phil,
Speaker 2: and he starts collecting serious evidence, and the evidence collected
Speaker 2: points that you know, it's probably nefarious at least, right,
Speaker 2: But there's some conflicting pieces of evidence. First, Lana does
Speaker 2: have gunshot residue on her hands, but Phil does not.
Speaker 1: Oh, okay, So.
Speaker 2: Phil, somehow in this situation has not gotten gunshot residue
Speaker 2: on him.
Speaker 1: Yeah, which is possible, but yeah, that definitely is like
Speaker 1: an argument that his defense attorney is going to be
Speaker 1: able to use. For sure.
Speaker 2: Yes, there is blood all over Lana's shirt. This is
Speaker 2: I mean, if anybody's ever seen this type of injury
Speaker 2: or this is a bloody event. Yah. The way you know,
Speaker 2: the head basically compresses everything and it expels back out
Speaker 2: the mouth, which is why. Also her her teeth were
Speaker 2: knocked out, right, So she has a tremendous amount of
Speaker 2: blood on her, on her chest and on her legs.
Speaker 2: But it stucks at a very specific point, right. Phil's
Speaker 2: saliva is on her drink glass as well as hers,
Speaker 2: suggesting that they did kiss, and it's also on her breast,
Speaker 2: so there is some sexual contact that has occurred. In
Speaker 2: some manner without a doubt. Right, Phil does not have
Speaker 2: blood splatter on himself, at least not in the suggested
Speaker 2: amount had he been in that situation. Right upstairs, the
Speaker 2: police find the white jacket that Phil was wearing when
Speaker 2: he was last seen at the House of Blues, And
Speaker 2: although it has blood on it, the specs are tiny.
Speaker 2: This is not like indicative of what you would expect
Speaker 2: for someone who has just killed somebody that way, right,
Speaker 2: It's like that he is he is conspicuously absent of
Speaker 2: any evidence that points to and you know, like with
Speaker 2: stuff like that blood. You know, forensic We've done our
Speaker 2: conversations on forensic evidence and everything being kind of a
Speaker 2: made up CSI bullshit thing, but there is a certain
Speaker 2: expectation for certain things, like the amount of blood that
Speaker 2: should be on you and the gunshot residue that should
Speaker 2: be on you had you been the one pulling the trigger. Right,
Speaker 2: So they find this this white jacket, and then they
Speaker 2: also find the gun that's on the floor by her foot.
Speaker 2: It has no blood on it and no prints. And
Speaker 2: upstairs in a bathroom they find a cloth diaper that
Speaker 2: has blood all over it, you know, like the.
Speaker 3: Like true like baby like old school baby. They references
Speaker 3: a lot.
Speaker 2: I've never used a cloth diaper to clean my guns,
Speaker 2: but apparently that's like the jam or was in the
Speaker 2: early two thousands. I don't know, they talk. They talk
Speaker 2: about it as though I'm supposed to just know that
Speaker 2: that's what we've got.
Speaker 1: Sure you could, like, I can see why it would work,
Speaker 1: and it's probably cheap. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And as someone who loves guns, I've never even
Speaker 2: thought about that. And I have a baby, so I
Speaker 2: don't know.
Speaker 1: I've never had a but I've never had access to
Speaker 1: I've never seen a fucking fabricousper Yeah.
Speaker 2: It's very yeah, I mean, you know, anyway, so they
Speaker 2: mentioned it a lot. It's a big deal, but don't
Speaker 2: I don't really get why the diaper part of it
Speaker 2: was so significant, but they they But it is that
Speaker 2: it is covered in blood, and he is clearly probably
Speaker 2: evidence points to the fact that he probably used this
Speaker 2: to clean off the gun, because obviously the gun should
Speaker 2: have fingerprints and blood on it and has neither. What
Speaker 2: I consider the most damning evidence is that Lana was
Speaker 2: found in the chair at Phil's front door with her
Speaker 2: purse slung over her shoulder. It seems very indicative that
Speaker 2: she was trying to leave, right. Yeah, they're in a big,
Speaker 2: twenty two room mansion and she's by the front door
Speaker 2: with her purse over her shoulder. It seems like she
Speaker 2: is trying to get out of this house. Yeah, there's
Speaker 2: some you know, like I said, some really conflicting stuff.
Speaker 2: There's blood like everywhere except on Phil, and there is
Speaker 2: gunshot residue again not on film. Everything in Phil's house
Speaker 2: is read. By the way, this is just a side
Speaker 2: note that I found. Really everything in his house. When
Speaker 2: you look at the crime scene photos, they're all read.
Speaker 2: Everything's read everywhere. Damn. It's been such a pain in
Speaker 2: the ass trying to find evidence inside this house. That's
Speaker 2: just like red everywhere.
Speaker 1: It's crazy, seking blood spatter in that house. Yeah, So.
Speaker 2: They also find vic it in and alcohol in Lana's blood.
Speaker 2: The bullet went in her mouth and pierced her spinal
Speaker 2: cord and likely killed her almost instantly. They find a
Speaker 2: bruise on her tongue, which is a very unlikely thing
Speaker 2: if she had put the gun in her mouth herself.
Speaker 2: You know, it's like, that's not an injury you have
Speaker 2: if it hasn't been forcibly put in your mouth. The
Speaker 2: cops build their case, and it's not until November of
Speaker 2: two thousand and three that they finally charge Phil formally
Speaker 2: with murder. So good, solid six months goes by before
Speaker 2: they you know, but they're doing their job appropriately. You
Speaker 2: can't half ass these charges. You have to make sure
Speaker 2: that coming into this you are absolutely ready for it. Right. So,
Speaker 2: something I never see in any of the documentaries about
Speaker 2: this is it's not until March two thousand and seven
Speaker 2: that they begin the trial for Phil. The entire time
Speaker 2: he's walking around Freeman, so she's killed in in February
Speaker 2: of two thousand and three, he does not go on
Speaker 2: trial until March of two thousand and seven. Right, he
Speaker 2: has years of just walking around free knowing what he's
Speaker 2: done and everything that's going on, you know, so he
Speaker 2: just you know, he's just chilling. During this time. He
Speaker 2: does his best to be smirch Lana at every opportunity,
Speaker 2: Like he starts beginning his like public narrative, and his
Speaker 2: lawyers are basically like, Phil, you need to stay the
Speaker 2: fuck off of the goddamn like TV. And he's like,
Speaker 2: you guys, don't know what I'm doing. I'm making a case.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna get there, right. He begins claiming that she
Speaker 2: killed herself and that he was the victim in the situation.
Speaker 2: It's like he literally is like, this happened to me.
Speaker 2: This happened to me. Can you believe it? Like she
Speaker 2: killed herself and this happened to me, and I'm the
Speaker 2: innocent victim in I had to deal with it.
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yes.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 2: He was angered by his lawyers in two thousand and
Speaker 2: six because they couldn't get his case thrown out. So
Speaker 2: he be this like series of home videos that he
Speaker 2: posts on the what is still very much the new Internet, right,
Speaker 2: this is like the early two thousands. He's making his
Speaker 2: own website and posting these videos on and his assistant
Speaker 2: Michelle Blaine, she she helps him make these videos, right,
Speaker 2: and it's they're the most unhinged videos here. Sophie, could
Speaker 2: you show the I forget what it's called self interview? Yes? Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: that's the one, Sophie. Could you show that for us?
Speaker 4: Unfortunately I can.
Speaker 6: Not have anything to do with her dad. She may
Speaker 6: have accidentally taken her own life. She may have purposely
Speaker 6: taken her own life. She may have been eating the
Speaker 6: gun with her dancing. She may have been doing anything.
Speaker 6: I don't know why, when, how, or where, in what circumstance.
Speaker 6: She may have taken her wrong life, whether she planned.
Speaker 5: To or not.
Speaker 2: Are you lawyer just sitting over there? Like, are you freestyling? Motherfucker?
Speaker 1: Get pounding tombs? Pounding tombs?
Speaker 2: I always think I think about did you see this
Speaker 2: recent thing with the billionaire? Do I forget his name
Speaker 2: of the billionaire? Do where his lawyer is like, if
Speaker 2: you don't shut the fuck up right now, I'm gonna
Speaker 2: kill you.
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, that's a good defensive attorney.
Speaker 2: Yes, that guy is a professional.
Speaker 4: That's why he makes more than a five word answer.
Speaker 4: I'm gonna fucking kill you.
Speaker 2: This motherfucker is out here wearing puka shells and Hawaiian shirts,
Speaker 2: being like, I don't know why she did it.
Speaker 3: She's kicking then in her mouth and was dancing.
Speaker 8: I don't know.
Speaker 3: Michelle his assistance, She says, this is where she really
Speaker 3: starts to like.
Speaker 2: The facade of Phil breaks down for her, and she
Speaker 2: she starts being like, I don't know if I'm like
Speaker 2: cut out for being around this shit, and she tries
Speaker 2: to quit, and Phil she brings her son with her
Speaker 2: to quit because she's afraid of Phil. Her son's like
Speaker 2: giant Phil, saying he's gonna kill her. Pheels like screaming
Speaker 2: at the top of her lungs while she's walking out.
Speaker 2: She says that Phels sexually harassed her. Claimed that. She
Speaker 2: claims that Phil told her, hey, we should get married
Speaker 2: so that you don't have to testify, you know, because
Speaker 2: if you were married, you can't be you can't testify,
Speaker 2: you know. And she's like, I don't know anything, motherfucker,
Speaker 2: Like she.
Speaker 4: Does the ship of this motherfucker, Please tell me. She
Speaker 4: sues the show.
Speaker 2: She does sue him. She has to sue him because
Speaker 2: he he promises her money. He promises her all sorts
Speaker 2: of stuff. Uh and and he does not come through
Speaker 2: on his promises. So it does end up like all
Speaker 2: this like film stuff. She gets her names all over it,
Speaker 2: and shit, it looks really bad for her. It probably
Speaker 2: does suck up her career for a little while. But Hollywood, baby,
Speaker 2: it's probably fine. So she she does leave. She files
Speaker 2: a lawsuit against him, claims what she I think she
Speaker 2: does make a little bit of get a little bit
Speaker 2: of it back, but I'm sure it most of it,
Speaker 2: got blood sucking fucking lawyers. Yeah. So so the court case, right,
Speaker 2: the prosecutors, they they go out and they're like, hey,
Speaker 2: anybody had a gun pressed to their head by Phil Spector?
Speaker 2: And fortunately, fortunately John Lennon is dead. So he got
Speaker 2: a gun pressed right against his head, so he got uh,
Speaker 2: he's done for Actually I don't think he did. I
Speaker 2: think he got shot in the chest. But anyway, I'm sorry,
Speaker 2: I just I needed that. So but they do find
Speaker 2: they find many, many people. One of them I'm gonna
Speaker 2: go through like there's like.
Speaker 1: A football stadium full of people who had guns pulled
Speaker 1: on them by Phil Spector.
Speaker 2: It was not a challenge to find people that, Yeah,
Speaker 2: it was, it was. It was really not like so.
Speaker 2: Joan Rivers testifies Joan Rivers, the comedian Joan Rivers that
Speaker 2: we all know and loved and everything. I think she's dead.
Speaker 2: If not, she's dead in spirit to me, she's so
Speaker 2: In the in the mid nineteen seventies, she says she's
Speaker 2: at Spector's home and he she tries to leave, and
Speaker 2: he won't let her. He points a gun at her head,
Speaker 2: tells her don't fucking go anywhere. You're staying right here
Speaker 2: forces people at gunpoint to stay. This is the picture
Speaker 2: that they want to paint. This is what they're trying
Speaker 2: to say. Phil gets mad when people want to go home.
Speaker 2: He doesn't like it, so Joan rivers, she testifies. Bj Cook,
Speaker 2: another singer, claims that around the mid nineteen seventies, testified
Speaker 2: the Specter threatened her with a gun during an argument
Speaker 2: while she was visiting him. She wasn't allowed to leave
Speaker 2: until he could calm down. Pam Shaw or Pam Jackson,
Speaker 2: depending on who reports it, she testified Spectacle a gun
Speaker 2: during an argument and blocked her from leaving her residence.
Speaker 2: Kathleen Sullivan in the nineteen eighties testified that Spector threatened
Speaker 2: her with a firearm during a confrontation at his home.
Speaker 2: There is they like I think that. I think the
Speaker 2: end tally was like twelve people that they found that
Speaker 2: were open to Like, yeah, Phil Spector threaten me with
Speaker 2: the gun trying to leave his house. It's always that narrative,
Speaker 2: especially since you know Lana is found with her purse
Speaker 2: on her shoulder. She's trying to leave the house. This
Speaker 2: is when Phil Spector loses his mind. Is when you
Speaker 2: try and go home.
Speaker 3: Yeah yep, so, So Spector during the trial is insane.
Speaker 2: He's crazy. It's it's this is why. First off, this
Speaker 2: is why every time my pubes get a little unruly,
Speaker 2: I tell my girlfriend that I'm putting Phil Spector on trial,
Speaker 2: right because uh oh here, let me pull this. Let
Speaker 2: me pull this photo up. This is amazing.
Speaker 4: This is broke Robert.
Speaker 2: This is Phil Spector's hairdoos during the trial, right, changes
Speaker 2: his hair every fucking trial. This brings us to this
Speaker 2: is like one of my favorite.
Speaker 1: Moments how he got it back right? Okay, one of my.
Speaker 3: Favorite moments in early Hollywood history.
Speaker 1: This is his way to talk about these hairs.
Speaker 2: So before we do that real quick, I just want
Speaker 2: to pivot and show you Phil Spector's one of my
Speaker 2: favorite moments in Internet history, right is during this time
Speaker 2: because there was a thread where they kept continuously photoshopping
Speaker 2: bigger and bigger hair on Phil Spectora. Here it's in here,
Speaker 2: yeah here it is. So the Internet thought this was hilarious, and.
Speaker 3: They just keep keep photoshopping bigger and bigger hair.
Speaker 1: Until he's got like the Death Star version of the
Speaker 1: event afro on his head.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, so he is, I mean he is making
Speaker 3: a spectacle of this.
Speaker 2: Try let's go to the hair real quick. You're talking
Speaker 2: about that, yeah to me, So he's wearing different wigs
Speaker 2: all the time.
Speaker 1: First off, what's fascinating about this to me is that
Speaker 1: the first three look like mugshots, like he has just
Speaker 1: committed and one of them he has no wig and
Speaker 1: he's balding, and he looks like he got off the
Speaker 1: con Air flight. It was like whatever, By the way, yeah,
Speaker 1: that is I mean, that is his literal mugshot. The
Speaker 1: other one does look like a mug shot, but he
Speaker 1: has a wig on, but he's looking up at the
Speaker 1: camera with eyes so wide it looks like he's just
Speaker 1: seen a hand grenade go off.
Speaker 2: So I want to point out so I'm pretty sure
Speaker 2: that the second one is his actual night of the
Speaker 2: incident booking photo, and then the first one is his
Speaker 2: booking at the time of prison photo.
Speaker 1: That makes sense, so it does.
Speaker 3: They are probably mugshot and he does look fucking crazy.
Speaker 2: The third one he looks like Beetlejuice, which is amazing.
Speaker 1: He looks like Beetlejuice. The top right one he looks.
Speaker 2: Like he just got done with his boy band audition.
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, he looks like Ben Stiller in
Speaker 1: Tropic Thunder as simple Jack like that, right, Yeah, and
Speaker 1: then the bottom one, it looks like he's it looks
Speaker 1: like someone gave the super ooze that made the teenage
Speaker 1: music Ninja Ninja Turtles to Joe Dirt's mullet like foot.
Speaker 1: That's what I've got.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's amazing, dude, he's showing he's making a total
Speaker 2: spectacle out of this whole thing.
Speaker 1: They're all very different. Yeah, yeah, he is.
Speaker 2: He's absolutely like this is the joke, and he doesn't
Speaker 2: take any of it serious in any way, shape or form.
Speaker 2: He's constantly arguing with his prosecution or with his defenders.
Speaker 2: He's he's like his lawyers quit time after time after time.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 3: For the record, I want to put this is another
Speaker 3: thing real quick. I'll go to is over here. There's
Speaker 3: also a picture here.
Speaker 2: This is al Pacino playing Phil Spector in a later movie, which,
Speaker 2: by the way, is so stupid and amazing. I highly
Speaker 2: recommend you watch it. Al Pacino as Phil Spector, you think,
Speaker 2: you think, like, oh no, he's going over the top,
Speaker 2: but then you see the old videos of Phil Spector,
Speaker 2: like he's underplaying Phil Spector.
Speaker 1: Pulling a gun off and enough.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, he's underplaying Phil Spen without a doubt. It
Speaker 2: is a really stupid, bad court documentary type style movie,
Speaker 2: but it is. It's really good. I totally recommend watching
Speaker 2: it as funny as hell. Al Pacino as Phil Spector
Speaker 2: is amazing, It's so good. Throughout the preceding Specter remained
Speaker 2: free on bail, continuing to live outside prison while trial unfolded.
Speaker 2: His courtroom appearances became media spectacles, fueled by increasingly bizarre
Speaker 2: wig choices which I just showed you, towering curls, unnatural
Speaker 2: things like they became symbolic of a man attempting to
Speaker 2: control public perception even as his legal defense has fallen apart. Sophie,
Speaker 2: this is for you, Sophie. Yes, Phil. For his part,
Speaker 2: he does acknowledge that the froze a little overwhelming, right,
Speaker 2: but he claims it wasn't out of respect disrespect for
Speaker 2: the trial, but rather that he was paying respect to
Speaker 2: Ben Wallace and Albert Einstein, which of course is fucking insane.
Speaker 8: Stein, I fear Ben Wallace at Albert Einstein.
Speaker 2: You'm mad, Sophy, will you will you play the video
Speaker 2: of Phil describing described.
Speaker 8: This is yes, this is amazing, It's incredible.
Speaker 4: Robert doesn't know who Ben Wallace is.
Speaker 2: You will shortly. I had another question about the photograph
Speaker 2: that's all over the internet of you with the afra
Speaker 2: and what I thought was, I think he has a
Speaker 2: sense of humor, So what was with you with that?
Speaker 6: That?
Speaker 5: That was a tribute to Ben Wallace, Detroit Pistons forward.
Speaker 5: Took me four and a half hours to get my
Speaker 5: hair that way. I woke up at four four four
Speaker 5: o'clock in the morning or lay a glock with Cheryl
Speaker 5: to get my hair. That's straight up in the air
Speaker 5: like that. She permed it, She did everything do it.
Speaker 5: And Ben Wallace is a forward who's the most valuable
Speaker 5: defensive player of the year. He used to be with
Speaker 5: the Detroit Pistons the year they won two years ago.
Speaker 5: He wore his hair like that. Adams a tribute down
Speaker 5: Einstein and they told it was done in jest. But
Speaker 5: I was wearing my hair like Almer Einstein in those days.
Speaker 5: I was wearing my hair like Dylan, and nobody was
Speaker 5: making fun of Dylan.
Speaker 2: I spent a lot of time on it.
Speaker 5: Intributed to Ben Wallace and tribute to Albert Einstein, a
Speaker 5: phonographed I saw beyond my wildest dreams. But I hadn't
Speaker 5: wearing my hair that way for about eight months to
Speaker 5: a year, and it never photographed that pictures that day.
Speaker 5: It got a little extreme. It got a little extreme,
Speaker 5: but photographed for some reason in one phonograph, only in
Speaker 5: one photograph that he.
Speaker 8: Even knows who Ben Wallace is.
Speaker 2: That is so crazy to me.
Speaker 1: He starts with Ben Wallace, this one guy who was
Speaker 1: at the time was significantly like famous, irrelevant, but also
Speaker 1: it was about these other guys who are a lot
Speaker 1: less relevant right now. But I'm just gonna making it
Speaker 1: increasingly unlikely that I'm telling the truth. Yes, he's like
Speaker 1: and also Mozart, like, okay, brother.
Speaker 8: This is this like right after the Pistons win in
Speaker 8: two thousand and four.
Speaker 2: I would assume. So he does like he does, like sports,
Speaker 2: like he goes to like he's he's seen often like games,
Speaker 2: And I know.
Speaker 8: I saw him at a Laker game when I was
Speaker 8: a kid.
Speaker 2: I saw that. Fuck yeah. He also I don't know
Speaker 2: if you noticed it, but he hilarious, like never admits
Speaker 2: to wearing a wig, like in that thing he said
Speaker 2: I woke up and I was I worked on it
Speaker 2: for five hours and everything. Yeah, And they're like, so
Speaker 2: I watched his documentary and I forget which one it was.
Speaker 2: But they actually interview his wig guy. He's like, he's like, no, man,
Speaker 2: I fucking make his wigs for him.
Speaker 1: Man, I make him.
Speaker 3: He comes in, he's very particular about his wigs.
Speaker 2: He comes in all the time.
Speaker 3: But he like, he will never ever admit that he's
Speaker 3: wearing a wigs.
Speaker 2: There's a reporter that interviews him and they say that
Speaker 2: while they were interviewing him, they're like, yeah, so what
Speaker 2: about your ways. He's like, what wigs? What wigs? I
Speaker 2: don't wear wigs. What are you talking about?
Speaker 5: I did?
Speaker 2: This is my natural hair. And he goes and he
Speaker 2: gets a fuckload of like photograph, like an armful of
Speaker 2: photographs and comes back and dumps them in his lap.
Speaker 2: And see, see these are all me with my hair.
Speaker 2: This is real hair. Normal people keep.
Speaker 1: This many photos to prove that their hair is real.
Speaker 2: This is a normal thing. This is a normal thing
Speaker 2: to do. I don't know what you're talking about.
Speaker 3: You know who won't wear wigs do their murder trial?
Speaker 1: Probably Washington State Highway Patrol because they don't get charged
Speaker 1: with murder when they killed her.
Speaker 2: Yeah, see they were good for them, and we are back.
Speaker 2: So the defense did their best to slander Lana. They
Speaker 2: they portray her as a failed B movie actress who
Speaker 2: was down on her lucky and depressed. They pushed the
Speaker 2: theory that she was a starfucker essentially and that she
Speaker 2: only went with Phil in the hopes that, you know,
Speaker 2: she could take advantage of a celebrity, and when that
Speaker 2: didn't work out in the middle of the night, she
Speaker 2: killed herself out of a fit of depression. They brought
Speaker 2: in her friend, who is this shitty woman. Her name
Speaker 2: is Pumpkin Pie. For the record, that's her name. That's
Speaker 2: all She's ever referred to as Pumpkin High. Yes, and
Speaker 2: she is the least believable witness that you've ever seen. Like,
Speaker 2: her testimony is fucking bunkers. It's like everything's like she texted,
Speaker 2: she texted me that morning and she was depressed. She's
Speaker 2: always depressed. She hated her life, she says it. Lana
Speaker 2: always said she was gonna kill herself if she didn't
Speaker 2: get this role or you know, like like things that
Speaker 2: some things that like I believe right, like yeah, but
Speaker 2: like but like in the way that we all have
Speaker 2: a sense of humor, like you do. I'll fucking off
Speaker 2: myself if I don't get this role. You know, I
Speaker 2: should definitely get this one. Yes, yeah, And they do
Speaker 2: everything to portray her as a washed up failure u.
Speaker 2: They even played her sketch comedy real, which admittedly was
Speaker 2: not very good. It was it wasn't good, right uh.
Speaker 2: And the defense they like the the like Phil's wife
Speaker 2: laughs during she snickers, you know, like while they're playing it,
Speaker 2: they make it out to be a laughable situation. But
Speaker 2: this kind of backfires on them in the sense that
Speaker 2: it actually humanized her really hard. Dura number nine from
Speaker 2: the from the Trial says the reel had the opposite
Speaker 2: effect and humanized her. This isn't a quote, I'm just
Speaker 2: reading it. The reel had the opposite effect and humanized
Speaker 2: her even more to the jury. But despite that, the
Speaker 2: jury could not come to an agreement and they were
Speaker 2: deadlocked at ten two, and the judge declared a miss trial.
Speaker 2: So Phil Spector goes free.
Speaker 1: Justice is done.
Speaker 2: So yeah, thank you. And the end, no, no, we
Speaker 2: get justice. We get justice, my friends, Okay, So one.
Speaker 1: Thing I know about the Phil story.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I real quick, I just want to bring
Speaker 2: up Rochelle Spector. I mentioned her a few times already.
Speaker 2: Rachelle Spector was Prospector's third wife. She met him initially
Speaker 2: in the nineties, but they didn't get married in two
Speaker 2: thousand and six, probably because she was like underage, I
Speaker 2: think when she met him. And also, yeah, it gross Phil,
Speaker 2: but you know, at least he does wait, you know,
Speaker 2: like we're from an era of gentleman Jimmy Page, David Bowie,
Speaker 2: George Harrison. Let's not be forgetting that.
Speaker 3: Our idols were all horrible, horrible.
Speaker 2: Sexual devious. Yeah yeah, but but Phil always did seem
Speaker 2: to wait till they were proper adults. So good good
Speaker 2: for him, no matter how good it was you can say.
Speaker 2: But they do get married in two thousand and six
Speaker 2: while Inspecter's waiting on trial, and then she's decades younger
Speaker 2: than Phil, and unlike his previous partners, entered his life
Speaker 2: when his music career was long over and his reputation
Speaker 2: had already become what it was, as you know, murdering, reclusive, eccentric.
Speaker 2: So there's very serious, very serious questions about her motivation,
Speaker 2: girl do such a thing. Yes, her motivations absolutely seem
Speaker 2: to be because she knows Bro's about to go to
Speaker 2: jail and she only has to hold out for a
Speaker 2: few more years and then she possession of good.
Speaker 1: She's in a good situation here, yes, smart, Yeah, I
Speaker 1: don't know.
Speaker 8: I take the sorry pause. That was not a good situation.
Speaker 4: He's on trial for murder.
Speaker 8: She could that is a dangerous game. It's not worth
Speaker 8: the check.
Speaker 4: What are you doing?
Speaker 2: What are somebody has a moral compass and a and
Speaker 2: an aversion to danger here thinking I'd have done that,
Speaker 2: you know, I had a marry phil Spector at this
Speaker 2: point it seems like it seems like a proper risk.
Speaker 8: Absolutely not, and he looks like shit anyways.
Speaker 2: She so, she's always like in the media talking to
Speaker 2: the media and ship. She's behind him all the time.
Speaker 2: She speaks to reporters on his on his behalf, insisting
Speaker 2: on his innocence. She also gets repeatedly warned by the
Speaker 2: judge during these trials to shut the fuck up or
Speaker 2: they're gonna throw her out, because she'll be like, something
Speaker 2: will happen. She'd be like that's not true, you know,
Speaker 2: like just just being disruptive.
Speaker 4: And stupid, cursing ass woman.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 2: In two thousand and nine, Spector was retried for the
Speaker 2: murder of Lana Clarkson, and this time it lacked the
Speaker 2: spectacle of the first trial. After the first trial, the
Speaker 2: cameras aren't as interested. People don't really give a shit anymore. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's like that was a big deal then, but it's
Speaker 2: not a big deal now. No one cares. His team
Speaker 2: went from several high profile lawyers down to just one,
Speaker 2: but the prosecution stuck with their premise. Phil Spector has
Speaker 2: a long history of gun violence and a fear of
Speaker 2: abandonment that ended in him using his gun as a threat,
Speaker 2: and when Lona Cark Clarkson rebuked him and tried to leave,
Speaker 2: he became enraged and killed her. This time, the jury
Speaker 2: did come back in agreement Phil Spector had killed Lana Clarkson.
Speaker 2: Phil is convicted of second degree murder and he was
Speaker 2: sentenced to nineteen years to life in prison.
Speaker 1: Good cool justice.
Speaker 3: Yeah happen sometimes, Yeah, sometimes it happens.
Speaker 2: Now, briefly, I do want to talk about what I
Speaker 2: actually think is the most likely scenario. I've spent a
Speaker 2: lot of time digging into this and like I've developed
Speaker 2: my own theory, which is a bit maybe, I mean,
Speaker 2: maybe maybe it makes some people mad, but we always
Speaker 2: want to put the victim in a positive light. But
Speaker 2: I don't think she would have gone from Alhambra to
Speaker 2: Hollywood if she wasn't desperate and looking to take advantage
Speaker 2: of this situation, right, I don't think that, like you know,
Speaker 2: so forty is old in Hollywood years, absolutely, And I
Speaker 2: think the momentum, loss and everything made her desperate to
Speaker 2: really make something happen, right, which we know, like you know,
Speaker 2: desperate is the situation where where people will fly or fall.
Speaker 2: In this situation, she just became the victim of a
Speaker 2: shitty situation, right. I think she went with Phil hoping
Speaker 2: she could use him to get an opportunity, but I
Speaker 2: don't think she had any intention of sleeping with him.
Speaker 2: I think when Phil tried to get sexual with her,
Speaker 2: she was like, no, this is my limit. I am
Speaker 2: not interested in this.
Speaker 1: Waving a gun around. You seem like you have an
Speaker 1: absolutely a lot of reasons not don't want to get
Speaker 1: with Phil spector, Yes, but I do.
Speaker 2: Not want to negate like the conversation that should be had.
Speaker 2: It's like he was ridiculously drunk. He is absolutely like
Speaker 2: like blind drunk at this point, right, and he's probably
Speaker 2: sexually assaulting her. That is very definitely a likely situation.
Speaker 2: But I think she got frustrated and was like, all right,
Speaker 2: I'm out of here. You promised me one drink. I've
Speaker 2: had my one drink. It's time to go. I think
Speaker 2: she put on her purse, and I think Phil, like
Speaker 2: he has done many many times before, pulled out his gun,
Speaker 2: sat on her lap, and forced it into her mouth
Speaker 2: and said like, I'm going to kill you if you
Speaker 2: and I truly believe honestly that it was an accidental
Speaker 2: that he killed her accidentally.
Speaker 1: Negligently, but yeah, I think it was.
Speaker 2: Yes, negligently is what I would consider absolutely, because if
Speaker 2: you look at all the accounts, every single account that
Speaker 2: I read about Phil Spector waving a gun around and
Speaker 2: threatening people to a t, they all said, I didn't
Speaker 2: really think Phil was going to kill me. I think
Speaker 2: he was just drunk and being dumb, right, I think
Speaker 2: he had. I think he had done it so many
Speaker 2: times in his life, and I think that he had
Speaker 2: been and I think that this one time he was
Speaker 2: too drunk and he pulled that trigger, and and he
Speaker 2: negligently killed her. And because the earliest things he said
Speaker 2: was an accident. I didn't I didn't mean to. There
Speaker 2: wasn't there one supposed to happen, you know, Like those
Speaker 2: are the first things that he says.
Speaker 3: And I truly believe that that is probably what happened.
Speaker 2: I think that he was just a bad gun owner
Speaker 2: who murdered somebody who it's still murdered. It doesn't it
Speaker 2: kills her.
Speaker 1: And it doesn't change the punishment that he just I
Speaker 1: can buy that share, and I.
Speaker 2: Just I personally believe, you know, and and also it
Speaker 2: doesn't change. Also, you know, like Phil Speckser is a
Speaker 2: horrible person. His legacy leading up to this is one
Speaker 2: of being an absolute piece of.
Speaker 4: Dog shit society.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he is a menace. He wrote some entire light.
Speaker 7: You wrote something in your script that you did not
Speaker 7: read that I think is relevant to which is that
Speaker 7: you wrote that earlier in the day that she had
Speaker 7: bought multiple pairs of shoes, which I think.
Speaker 2: Is she bought a bunch of shoes. She absolutely was
Speaker 2: not killing herself, like despite the you know, like you
Speaker 2: don't buy a bunch of shoes. And then be like
Speaker 2: tonight's the night you know it's that's not really You
Speaker 2: don't make future plans if you're gonna off yourself, and
Speaker 2: she had future plans, she talked about her future plans.
Speaker 2: It does not, in any way point towards her being suicide.
Speaker 1: I think that is much more suggestive of Phil either
Speaker 1: killing her, as you said, fucking up doing the thing
Speaker 1: he does all the time. I think likely.
Speaker 2: I think the explanation for the lack of gun residue
Speaker 2: on his hands was probably that her hands were surrounding
Speaker 2: his hands while he had a gun held to her
Speaker 2: face or possibly all the way in her mouth.
Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe she's fighting him because it's terrifying and the
Speaker 1: gun pulls the trigger, right. Yeah, I think that that is.
Speaker 2: The most valid explanation. He also absolutely cleaned up afterwards.
Speaker 2: There's no prints on the gun, there's no blood on
Speaker 2: the gun. He absolutely cleaned the gun afterwards in order
Speaker 2: to try and obfuscate some of this situation, and then.
Speaker 7: Spent years and years trying to ruin this woman's reputation.
Speaker 2: Yes, he goes to jail in two thousand and nine.
Speaker 2: He spends six fucking years free after he kills this woman,
Speaker 2: six years. America.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, this is the country I lost.
Speaker 2: My leg for half lost, but I love the feeling
Speaker 2: in my leg. I lost the feeling in my leg
Speaker 2: that counts. Yeah, so this it sucks. He spends the
Speaker 2: remainder of his life incarcerated. He spends decades, you know,
Speaker 2: prior to this emotion, constructing these walls, and then he
Speaker 2: gets imprisoned by the walls that, you know, we construct
Speaker 2: a society. That's my ooh, look at that moment, right,
Speaker 2: we all feel smarter now. In December of twenty twenty,
Speaker 2: Phil contracted COVID while in prison, and in January of
Speaker 2: twenty twenty one, he died of complications from COVID.
Speaker 4: That didn't mean to laugh.
Speaker 2: He calls his daughter and it's like and to tell
Speaker 2: her because she he loses contact, but he calls her
Speaker 2: to tell her, I didn't die on my birthday. Look
Speaker 2: at me, you know. Yeah, that's that's his big you know,
Speaker 2: thay his daughter again to the end of his life.
Speaker 2: She and still today, Nicole. She she proclaims his innocence
Speaker 2: and she stands by him, says a wonderful father. She
Speaker 2: loves him as a his other kids fucking hate him.
Speaker 2: Show up during the trialer like this dude, he did
Speaker 2: shitty things, but his daughter.
Speaker 4: I just wonder what wig he was buried with.
Speaker 2: Actually, Sophie, if you wouldn't mind pulling up, Oh, actually
Speaker 2: it's me this.
Speaker 3: Time, me, this time, I will pull up. We do
Speaker 3: have a picture of Phil Spector, the last picture before
Speaker 3: he dies.
Speaker 2: It looks like this. Somewhere here it is bam, there
Speaker 2: he is Phil Spector and all of his glory.
Speaker 1: He does look like an extra from the Santa Claus.
Speaker 2: No wig, crooked teeth, hearing aids in because he's probably
Speaker 2: going deaf at this point. It is a stark contrast
Speaker 2: of everything about him. He dies, you know, pretty much deaf,
Speaker 2: no hair. It's all the things that he fought his
Speaker 2: entire life and here he is at the end of
Speaker 2: his life. Go fuck yourself, Phil, That's how you go
Speaker 2: out now, because because that is a bit it's a
Speaker 2: bit of a happy ending. I'm not gonna pretend it's
Speaker 2: a happy end. No, he's dead because I like to
Speaker 2: leave us on in even happier ending. Because we go
Speaker 2: through a lot, don't we hear at Bastards, we we
Speaker 2: go through a lot, right, It's just it's you know,
Speaker 2: I I I listened to the Himmler episodes.
Speaker 3: I it was hard Man or the Varenti Barrier episode.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah yeah that guy.
Speaker 5: Uh.
Speaker 2: This shit's sad, you know.
Speaker 6: Uh.
Speaker 2: So I want to leave you with a happy ending
Speaker 2: of ending. After escaping Phil Spector in nineteen seventy two,
Speaker 2: Ronnie Spector Or as she would later go by her
Speaker 2: maiden named Ronnie Bennett, again entered what she later described
Speaker 2: not as a triumphant comeback, but a long, grinding fight
Speaker 2: to reclaim her life, identity, and voice. The divorce left
Speaker 2: her financially constrained and legally silenced, while Phil retaining control
Speaker 2: over much of her catalog and publishing uh. For years,
Speaker 2: Ronnie struggled with alcoholism and instability, problems she openly acknowledged
Speaker 2: and as scars from her captivity, like this is what
Speaker 2: she went through and this is why she is like that, right,
Speaker 2: But she never fully disappeared. Throughout the seventies and eighties,
Speaker 2: she continued recording and performing sporadically, collaborating with artists like
Speaker 2: Any Money, Joey Ramone, and slowly rebuilding her sense of
Speaker 2: self outside Phil's shadow. Survival not stardom was the priority.
Speaker 2: Hold on a second, fuck, I forgot to mention the Ramones.
Speaker 2: He pulled a gun on the Ramones and didn't let
Speaker 2: him leave the studio. I don't know how I missed
Speaker 2: that one. That's a big So the Ramones are recording
Speaker 2: rock and roll high School and Phil is brought in
Speaker 2: to record them and he pulls a gun on the
Speaker 2: whole band and says, you're not leaving until you get
Speaker 2: the songwright right. Some members of the band later deny it,
Speaker 2: but Joey Ramones said it happened, so it's like that.
Speaker 2: But yes, so Joey Ramone definitely. They probably in the
Speaker 2: studio were like, hey, so Phil crazy, right? Fuck that guy.
Speaker 2: That guy was a nut, right, you know. I'm sure
Speaker 2: they had some memories that they shared. In the nineteen
Speaker 2: nineties and two thousands, On experienced a long overdue reprisal
Speaker 2: as rock history began to properly credit girl groups and
Speaker 2: female vocalist. Her influence became undeniable. Be My Baby was
Speaker 2: canonized as one of the most important pop recordings ever made,
Speaker 2: and Ronnie herself was recognized not just as Phil Spector's muse,
Speaker 2: but as a single, irreplaceable voice. She reunited with the
Speaker 2: Ronettes for selective performances and released new music on her
Speaker 2: own terms, and became a beloved figure among younger musicians,
Speaker 2: who saw her both as a pioneer and a survivor.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah.
Speaker 2: Her nineteen ninety memoir Be My Baby was especially important,
Speaker 2: breaking decades of silence and reframing her story as one
Speaker 2: of endurance rather than victimhood. I will tell you this
Speaker 2: book she wrote, is tremendous. She deserves every ounce of
Speaker 2: credit for being a survivor that she is, because she
Speaker 2: looks at all this stuff the same way I look
Speaker 2: at like surviving the Iraq War, you know where it's
Speaker 2: like like this is the worst thing that's ever happened
Speaker 2: to me, But I'm gonna make jokes out of it
Speaker 2: instead of like letting it destroy me. She absolutely has
Speaker 2: such a strength and such a sense of humor about
Speaker 2: all the things that happened to her. Even the coffin.
Speaker 2: She's like, I guess he thought that was gonna scare me,
Speaker 2: but Rose five four, Yeah, let's not kid ourselves. It
Speaker 2: wasn't like he was gonna physically put me in there.
Speaker 2: When Phil Spector was convicted and in prison, Ronnie did
Speaker 2: not gloat. She simply said justice has been done. When
Speaker 2: she died in twenty twenty two, she was remembered not
Speaker 2: as someone who survived a monster, but as an artist
Speaker 2: whose voice changed popping. And she did get to outlive
Speaker 2: Phil Spector. She got to see him die and lived
Speaker 2: a happy year and a half two years damn near
Speaker 2: without him in the world. So good on her. Thankfully
Speaker 2: she found happiness and success despite going through this whole thing.
Speaker 1: And she got to see him die.
Speaker 2: And that, my friend, Robert, is your two week vacation,
Speaker 2: all summed up the story of Phil Spector. He is
Speaker 2: without What do you think?
Speaker 5: Wait?
Speaker 2: Where h ken do you?
Speaker 3: Let's for assess this?
Speaker 4: Uh?
Speaker 2: What was what was the most insane thing you think
Speaker 2: of all of all this?
Speaker 1: The sheer number of very famous people he pulled guns on.
Speaker 1: Just thinking about how much clout you have to have
Speaker 1: to pull a gun on, like the Ramote, John Lennon,
Speaker 1: the Ramon Lennon and everyone Leonard. Don't say anything about it,
Speaker 1: like Leonard, Hey man, I know you wrote Hallelujah, but
Speaker 1: you got to keep your mouth shut.
Speaker 2: Hallelujah.
Speaker 1: He didn't pull the trigger, all right, tell.
Speaker 2: Me what do you think? What what's the craziest thing
Speaker 2: of this old dude.
Speaker 4: I don't know that Mickey Mouse.
Speaker 2: He just he offered that willingly. He didn't know what
Speaker 2: he prodded him. They were like, do you think was
Speaker 2: the first Charlie Temple and Mickey Mouse? It's so funny, man.
Speaker 2: There's so many parts about this guy. And here's why
Speaker 2: it's so interesting to me, right, is because as a musician,
Speaker 2: as a producer, as a person who's worked in the
Speaker 2: music industry, I've met this guy one hundred times at
Speaker 2: least already. I've met this guy so many times. I've
Speaker 2: absolutely seen people who I guarantee in thirty years or whatever,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna be sitting at home and there's gonna come
Speaker 2: on and be like, yes, all coming, Yes, all I coming.
Speaker 2: That was absolutely gonna happen. I predicted this for sure.
Speaker 2: You know, can't wait for the Tell Court interview. So yeah. So,
Speaker 2: I mean that's the thing that I really enjoy about
Speaker 2: this story is is the you know it is It
Speaker 2: is generally just the story of a shitty, shitty, shitty person.
Speaker 2: There's a lot of those in Hollywood, but I I
Speaker 2: like to separate, like, this is one of the like,
Speaker 2: for example, right when Michael Jackson and when when a
Speaker 2: lot of the most recent things have come out, I
Speaker 2: kind of made a choice, like I feel like, man,
Speaker 2: I don't need to listen to your music anymore, Like
Speaker 2: all the classics are there, but I just don't. I don't.
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna get mad if anybody else does, but
Speaker 2: I definitely I'm I'm I'm drawing a line between that
Speaker 2: was that was wrong and I don't like it lost profits.
Speaker 2: I don't listen to lost profits anymore. But Phil Spector
Speaker 2: had such an undeniable hold on so many important artists
Speaker 2: and so many songs that it's just like to erase
Speaker 2: that would be erasing a core part of my being
Speaker 2: existed before Phil Spector killed Lona Clucks in two thousand
Speaker 2: and three. You know, like all of those songs existed
Speaker 2: in my life before then. And and it really is
Speaker 2: like it's it's difficult, it's it's a difficult thing. And
Speaker 2: and also, you know, I like to take some tiny
Speaker 2: bit of solace in the fact that, like I can.
Speaker 3: Tell other people how horror he was. Yeah, it was
Speaker 3: this shittiest person.
Speaker 2: He made some bangers, He did some amazing things that
Speaker 2: that are like just not have not been replicated in
Speaker 2: the music industry and undeniably a huge sonic inspiration for me.
Speaker 2: Like I literally consider myself to be the stereo phil Specter.
Speaker 2: Like this dude, he was divorced three times. Nail it, Phil,
Speaker 2: you know, I know, but musically musically really uh he
Speaker 2: he he, he does so much.
Speaker 3: I truly believe in what he did, like this way
Speaker 3: that he crafted the music that he did.
Speaker 2: It's it's how I like to use the studio as
Speaker 2: part of the process of making music to have these
Speaker 2: creative moments. And I'm largely inspired by him and the
Speaker 2: Beatles in doing that, and so it is hard to
Speaker 2: remove that. So my my justification is that I'm just
Speaker 2: out here telling you guys how shitty it was, so
Speaker 2: it alleviates my conscience.
Speaker 1: Well, there's worse ways to alleviate your conscience, Yeah, Phil
Speaker 1: spe a few of them.
Speaker 3: Man, So thank you so much for letting me do this.
Speaker 3: This was so much fun.
Speaker 2: If you're interested in the music from the episodes, I'm
Speaker 2: gonna give that to Sophie so she can post it.
Speaker 2: I'm also going I'm gonna give even like the stems
Speaker 2: and the sessions, so if you're a musician and you
Speaker 2: want to remix some of this stuff to make your
Speaker 2: own little home bastards weird, it's weird. You can grab
Speaker 2: those from Sophie. I'll put them on my stuff too. Also,
Speaker 2: I'm fighting the music industry from the inside. I actually
Speaker 2: I did all the label thing. Obviously, I have a
Speaker 2: Grammy and I've done the whole label thing. But I
Speaker 2: decided to be the change I want to see in
Speaker 2: the music industry, and so I am starting my own label.
Speaker 2: I am working very hard at pushing my own identity
Speaker 2: in this that is different from the exploitive AI driven
Speaker 2: ownership of publishing bullshit that the industry has been come
Speaker 2: and I really am trying. So if you care about
Speaker 2: that at all, guilt trip. For all of you listeners,
Speaker 2: come and check out my new artist. Her name is
Speaker 2: Violet Lux. I'm going to release this song concurrent with
Speaker 2: this with these episodes so that you can you can
Speaker 2: hear my very first artist that I'm signing to the label.
Speaker 2: It is. It's entirely Phil Spector inspired type stuff. I'm
Speaker 2: wall of sounding with the music. But if you like
Speaker 2: nineties grunge rock, if you like Alison Chains, if you
Speaker 2: like Mazzie Starr, if you like Nirvana, if you like
Speaker 2: Smashing Pumpkins, this is going to be right up your alley,
Speaker 2: so come check it out. The vinyl will be coming
Speaker 2: out too, so check that out as well. Uh and
Speaker 2: and yeah, I got a podcast and other shit, So
Speaker 2: I thank you for letting me do this. Man, this
Speaker 2: has been so much fun. I love telling my friend
Speaker 2: this is like what we do when we're just hanging out,
Speaker 2: like explaining people to.
Speaker 1: Each other, Phil and yeah particular.
Speaker 2: So it's it's fun to get to do this on
Speaker 2: the stage that you have become. And I'm so proud
Speaker 2: of you, man, it's awesome you doing so well with
Speaker 2: all this. And I'm for you too, and your nerds
Speaker 2: on the subwritting talk on Sophie, I swear to god,
Speaker 2: I'll hunt you down like that Jay and Silent Bob movie.
Speaker 2: Beat the shit out of you.
Speaker 1: That's right, that's what we do.
Speaker 2: This has been a podcast. That's how I end my
Speaker 2: podcast by.
Speaker 1: It is over.
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