1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:02,480 Speaker 1: No, we got a Ben Franklin episode. 2 00:00:02,800 --> 00:00:06,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, we do. Your name's Ben too, that's weird. My 3 00:00:06,480 --> 00:00:09,960 Speaker 2: name is Noel, but yeah, Ben Franklin right, former president 4 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:14,400 Speaker 2: Ben Franklin right, not a president, dang it. He's on 5 00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:19,400 Speaker 2: the money though, he's on those hondos. He had sure 6 00:00:19,800 --> 00:00:23,160 Speaker 2: sure did? He potentially also like to mess around with 7 00:00:23,400 --> 00:00:26,600 Speaker 2: uh with dead bodies. That's an episode for another day. 8 00:00:26,680 --> 00:00:30,920 Speaker 2: That's not today's episode. Today's is much more the ABC's 9 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:31,760 Speaker 2: of Ben Franklin. 10 00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:36,520 Speaker 1: If you will hashtag no pun left behind, let's ABC 11 00:00:36,800 --> 00:01:05,080 Speaker 1: about it. Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome 12 00:01:05,120 --> 00:01:07,520 Speaker 1: to the show, Friends and Neighbors. My favorite letter of 13 00:01:07,520 --> 00:01:10,680 Speaker 1: the English alphabet is Z, and my name is Ben. 14 00:01:11,280 --> 00:01:14,560 Speaker 2: My name is Noel, and my favorite song is the 15 00:01:14,720 --> 00:01:18,200 Speaker 2: ABC song. And for the purposes of today's episode, it 16 00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:22,640 Speaker 2: goes like this, A B D E F G H I, 17 00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:26,600 Speaker 2: K L M N O, P R S t U 18 00:01:26,840 --> 00:01:31,639 Speaker 2: V Z app and I don't know how to pronounce 19 00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:35,160 Speaker 2: these characters thing of characters. 20 00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:38,840 Speaker 1: Right, Ben Franklin, Oh boy? And also, Noel, you laughed 21 00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:41,840 Speaker 1: at me. We were hanging out yesterday and I tried 22 00:01:41,920 --> 00:01:45,880 Speaker 1: singing that song with this folks. You may notice that 23 00:01:46,080 --> 00:01:48,960 Speaker 1: in the rendition of the alphabet song you just heard, 24 00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:53,760 Speaker 1: there were some prominent letters missing. And it turns out 25 00:01:54,520 --> 00:01:57,360 Speaker 1: that's not an accident. This was on purpose. 26 00:01:57,720 --> 00:01:57,960 Speaker 2: You see. 27 00:01:58,240 --> 00:02:02,480 Speaker 1: There was a fellow, a found father named Benjamin Franklin 28 00:02:02,600 --> 00:02:05,400 Speaker 1: who did many, many things right. He was a renaissance man. 29 00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:09,040 Speaker 2: He was a polymath of sorts, a genius. Most people 30 00:02:09,240 --> 00:02:13,799 Speaker 2: consider him an elder statesman and as you say, a 31 00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:18,280 Speaker 2: founding father, but also an inventor, a scientist, a postmaster, 32 00:02:19,040 --> 00:02:21,440 Speaker 2: and a diplomat. And he just kind of did all 33 00:02:21,480 --> 00:02:21,880 Speaker 2: the things. 34 00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:27,440 Speaker 1: And today he is sort of an American legend. And 35 00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:29,440 Speaker 1: there are a lot of stories about the guy that 36 00:02:29,639 --> 00:02:33,160 Speaker 1: turn out later not to be entirely true, you know, 37 00:02:33,440 --> 00:02:37,960 Speaker 1: but it is true that he was a prolific renaissance man. 38 00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:42,640 Speaker 1: As an inventor, he created things like bifocals, He created 39 00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:47,480 Speaker 1: the lightning rod. He created some swimming flipper sets for 40 00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:51,160 Speaker 1: hands of flexible catheters, which is weird that there was 41 00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:54,959 Speaker 1: a time when there were inflexible catheters ouch, I know, 42 00:02:55,639 --> 00:02:58,960 Speaker 1: and the odometer. But one of the things that people 43 00:02:59,240 --> 00:03:01,920 Speaker 1: might not know about Benjamin Franklin is that, in addition 44 00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:05,160 Speaker 1: to inventing things. He also improved a lot of things, 45 00:03:05,360 --> 00:03:07,919 Speaker 1: or attempted to, and one of the things that he 46 00:03:08,160 --> 00:03:11,080 Speaker 1: attempted to improve was the English language itself. 47 00:03:11,320 --> 00:03:13,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's like, you know, we all know that 48 00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:17,040 Speaker 2: odominers are around still, swimming flippers are around still, bifocals. 49 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:20,680 Speaker 2: No one's really made them much better than old Ben Franklin. 50 00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:24,639 Speaker 2: But you know, we don't really hear much about a 51 00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:29,040 Speaker 2: redone English alphabet that sticks around to this day, and 52 00:03:29,160 --> 00:03:30,799 Speaker 2: that's because it was a bit of a flop. But 53 00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:34,920 Speaker 2: before we get into its ridiculous, abysmal failure, let's talk 54 00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:38,320 Speaker 2: a little bit about what this thing was Ben absolutely noel. 55 00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:41,840 Speaker 1: Do you recall hooked on Phonics? Were you hooked on phonics? 56 00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:44,000 Speaker 2: Kid? It worked for me, there we go. Yeah. 57 00:03:44,880 --> 00:03:48,640 Speaker 1: Hooked on Phonics was this program in the US, at 58 00:03:48,720 --> 00:03:52,520 Speaker 1: least in the US, possibly in other places, that taught 59 00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:58,400 Speaker 1: children how to pronounce letters and combinations of letters in 60 00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:00,600 Speaker 1: English based on sound them out. 61 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:02,320 Speaker 2: It worked so well for me, though, that I ended 62 00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:04,640 Speaker 2: up in phonics rehab. Oh yeah, you had to. I 63 00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:07,240 Speaker 2: had a problem. I had a real phonics problem. Monkey 64 00:04:07,320 --> 00:04:10,040 Speaker 2: on my back. But I'm cool now. Yeah, Yeah, I 65 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:13,640 Speaker 2: don't pronounce anything correctly. It's one day at. 66 00:04:13,520 --> 00:04:18,720 Speaker 1: A time, right, So Ben Franklin invented a phonetic alphabet. 67 00:04:19,040 --> 00:04:23,039 Speaker 1: He did successfully invent this. He hoped that other people 68 00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:26,600 Speaker 1: would be fans of the invention and that this alphabet 69 00:04:26,640 --> 00:04:30,160 Speaker 1: would ultimately replace the alphabet we used to date, and 70 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:33,320 Speaker 1: he started by removing letters. 71 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:39,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, he did. Franklin's alphabet basically asked six letters, and 72 00:04:39,440 --> 00:04:42,839 Speaker 2: those were C, JQ, W, X, and Y. You'll notice 73 00:04:42,880 --> 00:04:45,680 Speaker 2: they were missing from My Little Alphabet Diddy at the 74 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:49,480 Speaker 2: beginning of the show, because he thought they were redundant, right. 75 00:04:49,839 --> 00:04:53,040 Speaker 2: He argued that, for example, the letter K could handle 76 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:56,240 Speaker 2: the hard C sounds, so no need for C. You 77 00:04:56,279 --> 00:04:58,279 Speaker 2: can use a K for that. And then the letter 78 00:04:58,520 --> 00:05:03,120 Speaker 2: S could give a soft sea sound, so C was gone. 79 00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:07,360 Speaker 2: And then he also added six more characters, which, for 80 00:05:07,720 --> 00:05:10,360 Speaker 2: my money, are unpronounceable. When you see them, they look 81 00:05:10,360 --> 00:05:13,960 Speaker 2: like something out of an ecronomicon, but they were pretty 82 00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:18,120 Speaker 2: functional from Franklin's perspective. There were basically two vowels and 83 00:05:18,240 --> 00:05:22,400 Speaker 2: four new consonants, and his idea was to add clarity 84 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:28,280 Speaker 2: in pronunciation, and his characters were specifically based around sounds. So, 85 00:05:28,480 --> 00:05:31,840 Speaker 2: for example, he had a new continent that made the 86 00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:36,480 Speaker 2: en g sound at the end of like running or 87 00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:38,480 Speaker 2: or reaping or seeking. 88 00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:41,680 Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, you can see you can see the gist here, 89 00:05:41,839 --> 00:05:48,520 Speaker 1: the simplification, or at least the well intentioned steps toward simplification. 90 00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:53,359 Speaker 1: Franklin worked on this for a long time. He initially 91 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:58,400 Speaker 1: developed the alphabet in seventeen sixty eight, but he didn't 92 00:05:58,480 --> 00:06:02,040 Speaker 1: start publishing it or or floating it around until a 93 00:06:02,040 --> 00:06:05,839 Speaker 1: little more than ten years later, in seventeen seventy nine. 94 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:10,040 Speaker 1: He also published some letters that he had written in 95 00:06:10,240 --> 00:06:15,280 Speaker 1: this language, and in seventeen eighty nine Noah Webster, who 96 00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:18,880 Speaker 1: had heard of Franklin's proposal, included a description of it 97 00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:23,160 Speaker 1: in his book Dissertations on the English Language. However, there 98 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:26,280 Speaker 1: was a problem. Webster, you see, did not have the 99 00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:29,920 Speaker 1: correct type blocks, because at the time they had to 100 00:06:30,320 --> 00:06:36,000 Speaker 1: use blocks, handcut blocks for printing presses, and he couldn't 101 00:06:36,040 --> 00:06:40,160 Speaker 1: really describe the alphabet. Webster couldn't because he didn't have 102 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:45,680 Speaker 1: those special six characters cut out in a block, so 103 00:06:45,760 --> 00:06:50,839 Speaker 1: he couldn't really illustrate Franklin's changes, and the alphabet itself 104 00:06:51,760 --> 00:06:54,320 Speaker 1: really didn't you know. People didn't get it or see 105 00:06:54,320 --> 00:06:57,520 Speaker 1: it in action until Franklin had new blocks cast to 106 00:06:57,640 --> 00:07:01,400 Speaker 1: print the alphabet for his seventeen ten seventy nine collection 107 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:05,159 Speaker 1: called Political, Miscellaneous and Philosophical Pieces. 108 00:07:05,400 --> 00:07:08,640 Speaker 2: It's interesting too, because Webster was one of the very 109 00:07:08,880 --> 00:07:14,240 Speaker 2: very few supporters of this new alphabet, because he was 110 00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:20,000 Speaker 2: all about standardizing American spelling, and this was a big 111 00:07:20,120 --> 00:07:24,400 Speaker 2: thing for Franklin too. He argued that his alphabet would 112 00:07:25,080 --> 00:07:29,400 Speaker 2: help people spell better, whild would reduce spelling errors. And 113 00:07:29,560 --> 00:07:33,600 Speaker 2: it's interesting there are a few letters that Franklin exchanged 114 00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:38,040 Speaker 2: with his friend and confidante, Polly Stevenson, who was the 115 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:42,280 Speaker 2: daughter of his landlady in London, and he gave her 116 00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:44,440 Speaker 2: away at her wedding, and it was a very important 117 00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:48,440 Speaker 2: person in his life, and she had some interesting objections 118 00:07:48,840 --> 00:07:54,640 Speaker 2: to this new alphabet, and here Franklin responds to a 119 00:07:54,680 --> 00:07:57,640 Speaker 2: few of them. I give you a quote from this letter. Here. 120 00:07:58,360 --> 00:08:01,120 Speaker 2: The objection you make to rectify our alphabet, that it 121 00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:05,440 Speaker 2: will be attended with inconveniences and difficulties is a natural one, 122 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:09,600 Speaker 2: for always occurs when any reformation is proposed, whether in religion, 123 00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:12,920 Speaker 2: government laws, and even down as low as roads and 124 00:08:13,040 --> 00:08:16,320 Speaker 2: wheel carriages. The true question, then is not whether there 125 00:08:16,360 --> 00:08:20,000 Speaker 2: will be no difficulties or inconveniences, but whether the conveniences 126 00:08:20,080 --> 00:08:24,000 Speaker 2: will not, on the whole, be greater than the inconveniences. 127 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:26,200 Speaker 2: So you know, the whole make an omelet. You've got 128 00:08:26,240 --> 00:08:28,120 Speaker 2: to break a few eggs argument, right, right. 129 00:08:28,400 --> 00:08:32,559 Speaker 1: It's asking people a lot to change the way that 130 00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:38,120 Speaker 1: they speak and write. Because if you've ever looked into 131 00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:42,839 Speaker 1: an Encyclopedia entry and you've seen the pronunciation guide, you 132 00:08:42,920 --> 00:08:45,199 Speaker 1: know where they have the strange characters. They tell you 133 00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:49,560 Speaker 1: this is a glottal sound, right, this is the schwa yeah, yeah, 134 00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:54,000 Speaker 1: the unstressed central vowel build upside down e in the 135 00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:59,000 Speaker 1: International Phonetic Alphabet. When you see that, you can if 136 00:08:59,040 --> 00:09:02,280 Speaker 1: you're not familiar with pronunciation guides, then you can kind 137 00:09:02,320 --> 00:09:05,280 Speaker 1: of get a sense of how someone would feel reading 138 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:10,800 Speaker 1: a letter in Ben Franklin English versus you know, English 139 00:09:10,880 --> 00:09:11,600 Speaker 1: English totally. 140 00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:13,240 Speaker 2: And when you read some of these excerpts that he 141 00:09:13,400 --> 00:09:18,599 Speaker 2: wrote in this alphabet, your brain kind of has to 142 00:09:18,720 --> 00:09:23,199 Speaker 2: kind of like do some gymnastics to even parse that file, 143 00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:26,679 Speaker 2: and once it does, it does kind of click for you. 144 00:09:26,800 --> 00:09:29,599 Speaker 2: It's really interesting where you can make that leap. But 145 00:09:30,320 --> 00:09:36,240 Speaker 2: another interesting criticism from Franklin's friend Polly Stevenson was the 146 00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:42,840 Speaker 2: idea that changing the language would obscure etymology of words 147 00:09:43,320 --> 00:09:47,800 Speaker 2: and their meaning, and Franklin could not disagree more. His 148 00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:51,839 Speaker 2: response was this, etymologies are at present very uncertain, but 149 00:09:52,040 --> 00:09:55,920 Speaker 2: such as they are, the old books would still preserve them. 150 00:09:56,200 --> 00:09:59,440 Speaker 2: An etymologist would there find them. Words in the course 151 00:09:59,480 --> 00:10:01,840 Speaker 2: of time change their meaning as well as their spelling 152 00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:05,040 Speaker 2: and pronunciation, and we do not look to etymology for 153 00:10:05,160 --> 00:10:09,280 Speaker 2: their present meanings. So he really had a deep philosophical 154 00:10:09,559 --> 00:10:11,920 Speaker 2: belief that this was the right thing to do. And 155 00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:14,319 Speaker 2: it's interesting because, you know, we talked about at the 156 00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:17,040 Speaker 2: top of the show what a renaissance man Franklin was 157 00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:20,000 Speaker 2: and all the things he invented. But one of his 158 00:10:20,120 --> 00:10:25,440 Speaker 2: biographers kind of referred to this whole exercise as taking 159 00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:31,040 Speaker 2: Franklin's passion for social improvement to radical extremes right. 160 00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:35,079 Speaker 1: And one of the reasons that he did find some 161 00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:40,439 Speaker 1: prominent supporters is because there was an ideological and political 162 00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:44,520 Speaker 1: aspect to the generation of this language, or the revision 163 00:10:45,040 --> 00:10:49,200 Speaker 1: of the language from across the Atlantic. In his piece 164 00:10:49,280 --> 00:10:55,240 Speaker 1: in seventeen eighty nine, Noah Webster argues the following Chevrel, Shirkumsteince. 165 00:10:55,400 --> 00:10:58,319 Speaker 1: Just render a future sheparation of the American talking from 166 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:03,359 Speaker 1: the English necessary and I'm doing a Webster voice. Numerouslbcal 167 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:07,000 Speaker 1: causes such as a new country, new associations of people, 168 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:10,599 Speaker 1: new combinations of ideas and arts and science, and some 169 00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:14,719 Speaker 1: intercourse with tribes wholly unknown in Europe will introduce new 170 00:11:14,800 --> 00:11:19,839 Speaker 1: words to the American tongue. So he was arguing that 171 00:11:20,679 --> 00:11:27,239 Speaker 1: Ben Franklin's concept was timely and prescient, and that American 172 00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:32,160 Speaker 1: English would need to have the opportunity to become its 173 00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:34,840 Speaker 1: own thing. And we do see, we do see different 174 00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:38,480 Speaker 1: versions of the English language dividing, you know, at least 175 00:11:38,520 --> 00:11:42,040 Speaker 1: in terms of slang or figures of speech. But this 176 00:11:42,400 --> 00:11:47,320 Speaker 1: idea was radical. This this idea was paving the way 177 00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:52,199 Speaker 1: for a written version of American English to be unintelligible 178 00:11:52,840 --> 00:11:54,320 Speaker 1: to another English speaker. 179 00:11:54,400 --> 00:12:00,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, one hundred percent. And to Franklin, language was beach 180 00:12:00,559 --> 00:12:03,120 Speaker 2: before writing. And then in a lot of ways, writing 181 00:12:03,240 --> 00:12:05,839 Speaker 2: was sort of an inconvenient byproduct of language. It was 182 00:12:05,960 --> 00:12:08,840 Speaker 2: just like a thing you had to do to preserve 183 00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:13,280 Speaker 2: stories and data and such. But it was ultimately a 184 00:12:13,520 --> 00:12:17,560 Speaker 2: byproduct and not the first and foremost concern to Franklin 185 00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:20,120 Speaker 2: at least right. Another quote from one of these letters 186 00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:23,839 Speaker 2: to Polly Stevenson addressed her third objection, which was that 187 00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:28,880 Speaker 2: all books already written would become useless. And you know 188 00:12:29,040 --> 00:12:31,959 Speaker 2: to that, and I agree with this, Franklin responds, this 189 00:12:32,120 --> 00:12:36,080 Speaker 2: inconvenience would only come on gradually. In a course of ages, 190 00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:41,160 Speaker 2: you and other now living readers would hardly forget the 191 00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:43,920 Speaker 2: use of them. People would long learn to read the 192 00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:47,960 Speaker 2: old writings though they practiced the new, and the inconvenience 193 00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:50,079 Speaker 2: is not greater than what has actually happened in a 194 00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:52,800 Speaker 2: similar case in Italy. And you know this been formerly 195 00:12:53,320 --> 00:12:56,200 Speaker 2: Italian spoke and wrote in Latin, doesn't mean that they 196 00:12:56,240 --> 00:12:58,640 Speaker 2: burned all the books that were in Latin. They're still 197 00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:01,559 Speaker 2: even today around here people that speak Latin and that 198 00:13:01,720 --> 00:13:05,800 Speaker 2: do translations. And translations becomes a very important thing, because 199 00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:09,120 Speaker 2: you know, you have to know the original language and 200 00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:13,880 Speaker 2: the context and be able to translate the nuances of it. So, 201 00:13:14,080 --> 00:13:16,719 Speaker 2: you know, I mean to say that to reinvent a 202 00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:21,640 Speaker 2: language is inherently bad, I think is false, agreed, especially 203 00:13:21,800 --> 00:13:25,240 Speaker 2: if it is a living language. A living language is 204 00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:32,199 Speaker 2: defined as a language that has living native speakers. And 205 00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:35,480 Speaker 2: you know, we know that there are dead languages in 206 00:13:35,559 --> 00:13:39,040 Speaker 2: the world, unfortunately, throughout history. And we can see the 207 00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:42,319 Speaker 2: written evidence of these languages, and we can hear them 208 00:13:42,440 --> 00:13:45,679 Speaker 2: reference to read them referenced in other works of the 209 00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:50,560 Speaker 2: same rough historical era, but we don't know for sure 210 00:13:50,920 --> 00:13:55,719 Speaker 2: how these sounded languages change over time. One of my 211 00:13:55,840 --> 00:13:59,040 Speaker 2: favorite things about American English is that anything can be 212 00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:03,040 Speaker 2: a verb. Anything could be a verb. You just just 213 00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:05,640 Speaker 2: name something and then add I in G and now 214 00:14:05,679 --> 00:14:06,880 Speaker 2: it's a verb. Balling. 215 00:14:07,760 --> 00:14:13,280 Speaker 1: Let's see walling. You know, Ben Bollaning, Noel Brownanan, Yeah, exactly, 216 00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:15,280 Speaker 1: Noel Brownanan. 217 00:14:14,880 --> 00:14:17,400 Speaker 2: Noel Brown too, the brown ing. 218 00:14:17,679 --> 00:14:20,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I added an extra syllable there. But 219 00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:23,600 Speaker 1: you know what, we're going to keep it. And as 220 00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:26,000 Speaker 1: ambitious as it might sound, you and I were talking 221 00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:29,800 Speaker 1: off air about the kind of chutzpus someone would have 222 00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:31,040 Speaker 1: to have to see. 223 00:14:30,880 --> 00:14:35,040 Speaker 2: There you go, Yeah, because I would say, living language, 224 00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:35,440 Speaker 2: my friend. 225 00:14:43,560 --> 00:14:47,080 Speaker 1: So how irritated does someone have to be by what 226 00:14:47,280 --> 00:14:51,960 Speaker 1: is essentially a tomato tomato argument to say I am 227 00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:56,920 Speaker 1: going to change the entire language. Everyone who's already speaking 228 00:14:57,040 --> 00:15:01,120 Speaker 1: this needs to conform to my expectation of what language 229 00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:03,760 Speaker 1: would be There's a really interesting thing that happens. At 230 00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:07,080 Speaker 1: some point when most people are learning the basics of 231 00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:10,680 Speaker 1: a new language, there will typically be a moment where 232 00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:12,640 Speaker 1: they say, well, why do you do it that way? 233 00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:13,680 Speaker 2: That's dumb? 234 00:15:14,280 --> 00:15:18,040 Speaker 1: Why does why does every noun have to have a 235 00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:20,880 Speaker 1: gender attached to it or something like that? Sure, and 236 00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:23,520 Speaker 1: the answer is, because that's the language. That's the way 237 00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:27,280 Speaker 1: this language works exactly, and it can feel, it can 238 00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:30,640 Speaker 1: feel kind of. I don't know if it's condescending or 239 00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:34,240 Speaker 1: if it's self centered for someone learning the language to 240 00:15:34,640 --> 00:15:37,760 Speaker 1: tell everybody else already speaking it that they're doing it 241 00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:39,960 Speaker 1: wrong and they should change for one person. 242 00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:43,600 Speaker 2: Well, I think it's interesting too that one of Franklin's 243 00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:48,080 Speaker 2: big concerns in doing this alphabet was to eliminate spelling errors, 244 00:15:48,320 --> 00:15:52,480 Speaker 2: which I find utterly pedantic, you know, and absurd, because again, 245 00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:56,000 Speaker 2: it's like, you know, if you're a purist, okay, that's fine. 246 00:15:56,120 --> 00:15:58,760 Speaker 2: If you're a stickler for the spelling, I get that, 247 00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:03,040 Speaker 2: But ultimately, you know, what someone's saying, if the communication 248 00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:07,240 Speaker 2: is successful, isn't it successful? Isn't that what matters the most? 249 00:16:07,560 --> 00:16:11,480 Speaker 2: And in fact, you know, Webster actually persisted and published books, 250 00:16:11,520 --> 00:16:15,320 Speaker 2: as you said, using a sort of adapted orthography that 251 00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:18,360 Speaker 2: was a I believe it was not exactly Franklin's, but 252 00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:20,760 Speaker 2: he sort of used that as a jumping off point 253 00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:24,360 Speaker 2: and developed something of his own. And he was ridiculed 254 00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:31,320 Speaker 2: by critics. And this new language was called unsightly and corrupting, 255 00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:37,240 Speaker 2: bastardization of the the proper English language. And that's you know, 256 00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:40,240 Speaker 2: that's another question, right at what point is it evolution? 257 00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:44,040 Speaker 2: And at what point is it devolution? You know, at 258 00:16:44,080 --> 00:16:47,560 Speaker 2: what point are they diluting or ruining a language versus 259 00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:54,239 Speaker 2: improving Because one alphabet entrepreneur's improvement is another alphabet entrepreneur's 260 00:16:54,360 --> 00:16:57,520 Speaker 2: you know, downfall. They see it as the ruination of language. 261 00:16:57,840 --> 00:17:02,080 Speaker 2: And Noah Webster did succeed in creating an American spelling 262 00:17:02,680 --> 00:17:07,719 Speaker 2: but he did also eventually walk away from alphabet reform, 263 00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:11,399 Speaker 2: which he saw is a bit too radical. And it 264 00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:15,159 Speaker 2: turns out he was absolutely on the money about the 265 00:17:15,280 --> 00:17:20,960 Speaker 2: importance of political identity or exactly you know, and language. 266 00:17:21,320 --> 00:17:25,760 Speaker 2: And we see this happening in other countries as well. 267 00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:30,200 Speaker 2: There was a cool article in the Atlantic Monthly magazine 268 00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:34,800 Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety seven that talked about how alphabet shifts 269 00:17:35,280 --> 00:17:39,600 Speaker 2: became common in times of instability. In former Soviet republics, 270 00:17:39,640 --> 00:17:44,959 Speaker 2: for instance, alphabet shifts became so common that people started 271 00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:50,960 Speaker 2: calling the phenomenon new alphabet disease. So, you know, Azerbaijan 272 00:17:51,119 --> 00:17:54,040 Speaker 2: is probably the most famous example. It's changed their alphabet 273 00:17:54,119 --> 00:17:57,720 Speaker 2: three times. The whole thing. That's insane in the last 274 00:17:57,720 --> 00:18:00,520 Speaker 2: one hundred years. How could you keep up hundred years? 275 00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:02,480 Speaker 2: I guess you got time to learn it. But even 276 00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:05,000 Speaker 2: still that seems very extreme because, like you said, it's 277 00:18:05,119 --> 00:18:08,400 Speaker 2: so tied to national identity, which I think is probably 278 00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:13,840 Speaker 2: the main reason that this exercise from mister Franklin just 279 00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:14,840 Speaker 2: totally fell flat. 280 00:18:15,119 --> 00:18:17,720 Speaker 1: And he you know, I'm getting this sensinel that he 281 00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:21,359 Speaker 1: was very much a spaghetti at the wall kind of guy. Absolutely, 282 00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:23,600 Speaker 1: if he had stuff, he came up with, he had idea, 283 00:18:23,720 --> 00:18:24,520 Speaker 1: he just went for it. 284 00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:27,119 Speaker 2: Did you know that he even suggested that the eagle 285 00:18:27,440 --> 00:18:30,600 Speaker 2: was not an appropriate icon for America and that it 286 00:18:30,640 --> 00:18:35,080 Speaker 2: should instead be the turkey. Yes, yeah, the turkey, which 287 00:18:35,320 --> 00:18:38,639 Speaker 2: I think he said was a proud bird exactly he 288 00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:41,399 Speaker 2: said it was that the eagle was a bird of 289 00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:44,960 Speaker 2: bad moral character. So you know, Franklin was also a 290 00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:47,399 Speaker 2: bit of a troll, which I love, you know, But 291 00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:50,399 Speaker 2: it's like this whole alphabet thing. When you look at 292 00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:52,920 Speaker 2: it from an academic perspective and from the mind of 293 00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:56,479 Speaker 2: a brilliant thinker like Ben Franklin, you could see how 294 00:18:56,560 --> 00:18:59,240 Speaker 2: maybe he would think this was a good idea, but 295 00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:02,040 Speaker 2: in practice it's just too much of a pain in 296 00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:03,879 Speaker 2: the ass, right, right it is. 297 00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:08,920 Speaker 1: The people are very sensitive about language, especially because we 298 00:19:09,160 --> 00:19:13,760 Speaker 1: use it so often. Even if there were higher rates 299 00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:16,800 Speaker 1: of illiteracy as there were in this time, people are 300 00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:23,520 Speaker 1: still speaking, right, so we're consistently using the rules of language, 301 00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:27,119 Speaker 1: even if we're not using the written aspects of it. 302 00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:32,119 Speaker 1: And that's why this becomes important for Azerbaijan just to 303 00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:35,639 Speaker 1: like walk through real quick what had happened was it 304 00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:38,760 Speaker 1: went from Arabic to Latin, then from Latin to Cyrillic. 305 00:19:40,119 --> 00:19:43,119 Speaker 1: This was Arabic to Latin nineteen twenties, Latin issrelic in 306 00:19:43,160 --> 00:19:47,119 Speaker 1: the nineteen thirties, and then from Cyrillic to Latin again 307 00:19:47,359 --> 00:19:53,160 Speaker 1: most recently. And they're not alone. Former North Korean leader 308 00:19:53,359 --> 00:19:57,399 Speaker 1: or DPRK leader Kim Jong il was lauded for his 309 00:19:57,760 --> 00:20:03,920 Speaker 1: quote immortal feats for unif development of national Language Fearless Leader. Yeah, 310 00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:07,159 Speaker 1: he also rewrote the alphabet. They say, sounds about right, 311 00:20:07,920 --> 00:20:09,159 Speaker 1: what are you going to do? What else are you 312 00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:10,680 Speaker 1: going to do when you're at the top. Are you 313 00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:13,399 Speaker 1: trying to get a gift for that dictator in your 314 00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:15,880 Speaker 1: life who already has everything? Get them in alphabet? 315 00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:18,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, you know, he's just trying out different haircuts 316 00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:21,240 Speaker 2: and inventing new alphabets. That's what you do. 317 00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:25,040 Speaker 1: And people who tried phonetic languages before in the past. 318 00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:27,920 Speaker 1: There was a guy we found named William Bullocar, a 319 00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:32,359 Speaker 1: sixteenth century printer who created get this a forty letter 320 00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:35,320 Speaker 1: phonetic alphabet that seems like too many letters. 321 00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:36,679 Speaker 2: Just a lot of letters. It seems like a lot 322 00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:38,520 Speaker 2: of lets. What was the function? 323 00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:43,440 Speaker 1: The function was, you know how Franklin added those six 324 00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:47,520 Speaker 1: new characters to indicate some groups of sounds. This guy 325 00:20:47,760 --> 00:20:50,040 Speaker 1: was doing some of the same stuff. There's been a 326 00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:53,480 Speaker 1: spate of this over time. People are constantly trying to 327 00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:55,760 Speaker 1: come up with their own version of the alphabet, it seems, 328 00:20:56,160 --> 00:21:00,320 Speaker 1: and it's kind of treated like cryptocurrency totally might be 329 00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:05,240 Speaker 1: a fad here today, gone tomorrow, but typically what we 330 00:21:05,359 --> 00:21:07,320 Speaker 1: see in the past is that when people try to 331 00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:11,360 Speaker 1: construct these phonetic languages, they do the same thing. Ben 332 00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:13,920 Speaker 1: Franklin was doing that. You know, they'll have one letter 333 00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:15,280 Speaker 1: that means I in G. 334 00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:19,639 Speaker 2: Right, at least Ben Franklin was trying to simplify subtracting 335 00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:32,840 Speaker 2: rather than adding, you knowwy five letters. That's insane. You know, though, Ben, 336 00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:38,480 Speaker 2: this is still happening today, albeit in something of a 337 00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:42,080 Speaker 2: fictional realm. Have you heard of Arabesh? 338 00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:47,080 Speaker 1: Is it a language from space? 339 00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:49,440 Speaker 2: Why? Yes, Ben, As a matter of fact, it is 340 00:21:49,520 --> 00:21:52,879 Speaker 2: from a galaxy far far away. In fact, it first 341 00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:57,920 Speaker 2: appeared on like computer readouts or spaceship readouts in Return 342 00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:00,600 Speaker 2: of the Jedi, which is part of the original Star 343 00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:03,840 Speaker 2: Wars trilogy, and it was in the Death Star actually 344 00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:07,560 Speaker 2: and one of Darth Vader's shuttles. This is all according 345 00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:11,360 Speaker 2: to wookie Pedia, which is a thing that I love. 346 00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:15,280 Speaker 2: And then in the nineties a guy named Stephen Crane 347 00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:19,560 Speaker 2: kind of transcribed this alphabet for use in a Star 348 00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:24,040 Speaker 2: Wars miniature role playing game called Star Wars Miniature's Battle Companion, 349 00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:29,080 Speaker 2: and it was given the blessing of Lucasfilm and now 350 00:22:29,359 --> 00:22:31,600 Speaker 2: you can get it in font sets. It's a thirty 351 00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:36,200 Speaker 2: four letter alphabet, and it actually was expanded to have 352 00:22:36,359 --> 00:22:40,280 Speaker 2: punctuation marks in an update to the role playing game 353 00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:42,680 Speaker 2: that like a supplement that came out a few years 354 00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:45,600 Speaker 2: later in nineteen ninety six. So you know, even though 355 00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:48,200 Speaker 2: Ben Franklin's the thing didn't stick around, at least it 356 00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:50,359 Speaker 2: perseveres in a nerd culture. 357 00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:55,760 Speaker 1: Absolutely. And before you send the email, yes, we are 358 00:22:55,920 --> 00:23:00,399 Speaker 1: very aware that Tolkien himself was created languages. A lot 359 00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:05,640 Speaker 1: of times you'll hear certain members of our cohort here 360 00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:09,240 Speaker 1: at House of Works refer to Tolkien as a linguist 361 00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:12,359 Speaker 1: who made up a story to rationalize the languages he 362 00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:13,040 Speaker 1: was inventing. 363 00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:15,720 Speaker 2: Is that what was used in the Peter Jackson film 364 00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:18,360 Speaker 2: when you see the etchings on the one ring. 365 00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:22,840 Speaker 1: M Yeah, I think that's the language of Mordor. 366 00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:25,119 Speaker 2: That's right, that's right, that's right, that's right exactly. 367 00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:28,879 Speaker 1: Yeah, and yeah, the Elvish that they speak was developed 368 00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:33,120 Speaker 1: as an actual language. Look at and people are speaking Klingon, 369 00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:36,240 Speaker 1: people are doing marriage officiations and clingon. 370 00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:38,000 Speaker 2: Man, it's a brave new world, my friend. 371 00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:42,879 Speaker 1: And apparently George Bernard Shaw, famous playwright, had a huge 372 00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:47,080 Speaker 1: issue with the English language, so much so that he 373 00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:49,399 Speaker 1: one time, I don't entirely get this. I want to 374 00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:51,640 Speaker 1: see what you think of this. One time he said 375 00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:55,280 Speaker 1: that the word fish may as well be written as 376 00:23:55,920 --> 00:24:01,080 Speaker 1: gho ti. The gh is from laugh, the O from 377 00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:06,360 Speaker 1: women or women, and the ti from nation. So he's 378 00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:09,600 Speaker 1: saying the way they fit together phonetically, yeah, doesn't make sense. 379 00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:10,000 Speaker 2: Stupid. 380 00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:15,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, he said the alphabet was hopelessly inadequate, and when 381 00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:18,280 Speaker 1: he died, he left money in his will to develop 382 00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:21,000 Speaker 1: a new one, one last, Like Shot from the Dark. 383 00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:24,560 Speaker 2: I bet he and Franklin and Webster would have been buddies. 384 00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:26,760 Speaker 1: I bet they would have been principle, but then they 385 00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:31,240 Speaker 1: probably would have started arguing mine's better. Yeah, exactly. The 386 00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:36,760 Speaker 1: George Bernard Shaw Competition attracted four hundred and sixty seven entries, 387 00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:39,360 Speaker 1: and the winner was a guy named Kingsley Reid, who 388 00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:43,000 Speaker 1: had a phonetically accurate alphabet of forty eight letters, twenty 389 00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:47,600 Speaker 1: four vowels, and twenty four consonants. According to the clause 390 00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:51,879 Speaker 1: in Shaw's will, this alphabet had to be used alongside 391 00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:57,000 Speaker 1: the traditional alphabet in the new posthumous publication of his 392 00:24:57,080 --> 00:25:02,760 Speaker 1: play and fifty three thousand copies of Androcles and the 393 00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:05,680 Speaker 1: Lion were printed and one copy was given to each 394 00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:09,800 Speaker 1: public library in Britain, the Commonwealth, and North and South America, 395 00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:12,960 Speaker 1: and to all the national libraries of the world. 396 00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:15,320 Speaker 2: So this book is out. 397 00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:22,160 Speaker 1: There and you can find that award winning alphabet phonetic alphabet. 398 00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:23,080 Speaker 2: It's called, of. 399 00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:24,360 Speaker 1: Course, goaty fingers. 400 00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:25,600 Speaker 2: Goaty fingers. 401 00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:29,159 Speaker 1: Yeah, I know it sounds like something delicious from a 402 00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:32,600 Speaker 1: takeout menu. But goats had hooves, yes, but these are 403 00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:38,320 Speaker 1: not goat exactly. These are goate Oh I see, I see. 404 00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:41,920 Speaker 1: So what are some other invented languages? I know it 405 00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:44,400 Speaker 1: seems like so much that we I feel like we're 406 00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:46,760 Speaker 1: cutting it short, but I want to let you fly, 407 00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:50,560 Speaker 1: Ben oh Man, Okay, yes, thank you for setting me 408 00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:53,639 Speaker 1: up there, Noel, Just briefly, we have to mention Esperanto, 409 00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:59,440 Speaker 1: which is one of the world's most popular constructed auxiliary languages. 410 00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:02,880 Speaker 1: It was this mind not to be necessarily a first language, 411 00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:05,639 Speaker 1: but a common tongue that anybody could speak, and it 412 00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:08,879 Speaker 1: has like two million speakers worldwide and. 413 00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:13,080 Speaker 2: A William Shatner starring movie, if I'm not mistaken. 414 00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:16,160 Speaker 1: Right, Yes, his shining moment in the nineteen sixty six 415 00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:20,840 Speaker 1: film incubus, which my friends who speak Esperanto tell me 416 00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:24,040 Speaker 1: is hilarious due to pronunciation. 417 00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:29,720 Speaker 2: Sorry, mister, they made. 418 00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:32,359 Speaker 1: A suggested them have us. 419 00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:36,080 Speaker 2: Yes, tecto. 420 00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:43,160 Speaker 1: Cikla from the last time three time. 421 00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:54,720 Speaker 2: Sans beautiful right, speaking of Renaissance men, Yes, exactly. Shatner 422 00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:55,760 Speaker 2: and of. 423 00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:59,040 Speaker 1: Course Ben Franklin is probably going to be a recurring 424 00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:02,600 Speaker 1: character in the story of Ridiculous History because he got 425 00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:04,119 Speaker 1: up to some really weird stuff. 426 00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:05,000 Speaker 2: He was a kinkster. 427 00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:08,680 Speaker 1: Yes, yes, he was keekster. He was a fan of 428 00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:11,919 Speaker 1: air baths. People found skeletons a baths. 429 00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:13,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, is that like Airbnb? 430 00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:18,440 Speaker 1: It could be in an Airbnbka, it's it's you know, 431 00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:24,720 Speaker 1: it's reclining in the buff, bathing in the air. He's 432 00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:25,520 Speaker 1: hanging out naked. 433 00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:28,680 Speaker 2: Oh okay, why not just call it streaking. 434 00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:33,399 Speaker 1: It was a different time, okay. He also made improvements 435 00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:37,920 Speaker 1: to something called the glass harmonica, which sounds super spooky, 436 00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:42,080 Speaker 1: and skeletons were found under one. 437 00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:47,399 Speaker 2: Of his old abodes. Not in his closet though, No, no, no, 438 00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:50,080 Speaker 2: not in his closet. He was legit. He was legit. 439 00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:53,600 Speaker 1: If anything, there were probably medical experiments, but that's a story. 440 00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:56,880 Speaker 1: You and I will have to research for another day. 441 00:27:57,040 --> 00:27:59,679 Speaker 1: In the meantime, we'd like to hear from you if 442 00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:01,800 Speaker 1: you were listening to this, I'm gonna go out on 443 00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:05,080 Speaker 1: a limb and say that you probably write stuff in English. 444 00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:09,199 Speaker 1: What improvements would you make to the English language? 445 00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:11,520 Speaker 2: And hey, if you happen to have invented your own 446 00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:15,600 Speaker 2: improved English alphabet, write us something in that. Send us 447 00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:19,600 Speaker 2: your phonetic musings to Ridiculous at HowStuffWorks dot com, or 448 00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:22,840 Speaker 2: drop us a note on Facebook, where we're also Ridiculous History, 449 00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:27,520 Speaker 2: and we're also on Instagram as Ridiculous History. I've driven 450 00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:29,800 Speaker 2: this Pinterest joke into the ground, so I'm not even 451 00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:32,240 Speaker 2: gonna say it. All I'm gonna say is we're we 452 00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:34,920 Speaker 2: will never have a Pinterest. We will never have a Pinterest. 453 00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:36,359 Speaker 1: Well, let's put a pin in it. 454 00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:39,160 Speaker 2: Not a hard no yet, I don't pin. 455 00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:46,280 Speaker 1: Well as Nola and I resolve this. We bid you 456 00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:49,040 Speaker 1: Ado and hope you will tune in again very soon 457 00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:50,960 Speaker 1: for more Ridiculous History. 458 00:28:56,720 --> 00:29:00,520 Speaker 2: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 459 00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:02,720 Speaker 2: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.