1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:10,119 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. You're listening to the 2 00:00:10,119 --> 00:00:13,880 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch us live weekdays at 3 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:17,440 Speaker 1: noon and five pm Eastern on Applecarckley and Android Auto 4 00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:20,680 Speaker 1: with the Bloomberg Business App. Listen on demand wherever you 5 00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:25,040 Speaker 1: get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube. 6 00:00:25,400 --> 00:00:28,240 Speaker 2: Happy Monday to you if it's your re entry day. 7 00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:31,240 Speaker 2: I see you. Although I'll be honest in Washington, even 8 00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:33,360 Speaker 2: with lawmakers coming back into town, not a lot of 9 00:00:33,440 --> 00:00:35,839 Speaker 2: traffic still this morning, we'll kind of get up to 10 00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:40,360 Speaker 2: cruising speed here with about a dozen a dozen legislative 11 00:00:40,400 --> 00:00:44,159 Speaker 2: days left in the calendar year, if you can imagine that. 12 00:00:44,600 --> 00:00:47,879 Speaker 2: And I have really no news to bring you on 13 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:50,760 Speaker 2: that front. A lot of days have gone by, still 14 00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:53,240 Speaker 2: no plan when it comes to healthcare. We'll talk to 15 00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:58,000 Speaker 2: Nathan Dean about that coming up. As the phrase war 16 00:00:58,200 --> 00:01:02,080 Speaker 2: crime enters the conversation here in Washington, d C. At 17 00:01:02,160 --> 00:01:05,399 Speaker 2: least that's the term that Tim Kaine is using, the 18 00:01:05,440 --> 00:01:10,640 Speaker 2: Democrat from Virginia, no stranger to military affairs. War crime 19 00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:14,640 Speaker 2: not a term being used by some Republicans on Capitol Hill. 20 00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:16,759 Speaker 2: But what we heard from Mike Turner and Don Bacon 21 00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:21,560 Speaker 2: yesterday suggested that the kill everyone order, if it was real, 22 00:01:21,880 --> 00:01:25,399 Speaker 2: would in fact be illegal now if you're hiding over 23 00:01:25,440 --> 00:01:27,840 Speaker 2: the weekend or sleeping off your turkey. This was a 24 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:31,679 Speaker 2: big splash in the Washington Post that the Secretary of 25 00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:35,880 Speaker 2: Defense issued a verbal order to quote kill everybody unquote 26 00:01:36,080 --> 00:01:39,240 Speaker 2: to US commanders monitoring an alleged rug smuggling vessel in 27 00:01:39,240 --> 00:01:40,920 Speaker 2: the Caribbean. You know, they blown more than twenty of 28 00:01:40,959 --> 00:01:42,840 Speaker 2: these out of the water. In this case, it was 29 00:01:42,840 --> 00:01:45,720 Speaker 2: one of the first two guys end up in the drink. 30 00:01:45,760 --> 00:01:48,520 Speaker 2: They're still alive after Hegseth said no, go back and 31 00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:52,360 Speaker 2: kill them. And so there was reportedly a second missile 32 00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:56,559 Speaker 2: strike that did just that. President Trump was asked about 33 00:01:56,560 --> 00:01:58,680 Speaker 2: this on Air Force One, of course, reporters wanted to 34 00:01:58,680 --> 00:02:00,120 Speaker 2: get to the bottom of it after it being a 35 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:02,840 Speaker 2: huge conversation on Sunday morning television. 36 00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:03,559 Speaker 3: Here's what he said. 37 00:02:03,960 --> 00:02:06,800 Speaker 4: We'll look into it. But no, I wouldn't have wanted that, 38 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:10,960 Speaker 4: not a second strike. The first strike was very lethal. 39 00:02:11,040 --> 00:02:13,320 Speaker 4: It was fine, and if there were two people around, 40 00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:15,000 Speaker 4: but Pete said that didn't happen. 41 00:02:15,600 --> 00:02:18,040 Speaker 2: He said it didn't happen. That's the line from Donald 42 00:02:18,080 --> 00:02:22,320 Speaker 2: Trump as the term war crime is thrown around. Now 43 00:02:22,360 --> 00:02:24,520 Speaker 2: apparently they're going to get together in the Oval Office 44 00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:27,320 Speaker 2: at five o'clock this afternoon to talk about exactly what 45 00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:29,880 Speaker 2: went on. The President will sit down with his war planners, 46 00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:36,079 Speaker 2: including the Secretary of Defense, who is tweeting something by 47 00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:41,800 Speaker 2: Franklin the Turtle. I actually had to google. This was 48 00:02:41,800 --> 00:02:44,280 Speaker 2: Franklin on your radar growing up, James. This is like 49 00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:48,800 Speaker 2: it's a kid yeah, okay, Canadian children's book. As the 50 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:50,959 Speaker 2: son of a children's book illustrator, I guess I should 51 00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:54,359 Speaker 2: know this, but I was drawn toward it all the same. 52 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:57,359 Speaker 2: If you're watching us on YouTube, you see old Franklin 53 00:02:57,440 --> 00:03:00,519 Speaker 2: the Turtle. They're shooting a shoulder file while out of 54 00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:03,720 Speaker 2: a helicopter at well, I guess those are drug boats. 55 00:03:04,480 --> 00:03:10,320 Speaker 2: Pete Hegseth writing for your Christmas wish list. I learned 56 00:03:10,320 --> 00:03:12,120 Speaker 2: a lot of things from James. Do you hear the 57 00:03:12,120 --> 00:03:15,839 Speaker 2: word of the year is rage bait. This is the 58 00:03:15,880 --> 00:03:20,959 Speaker 2: Oxford word of the year. Rage bait is two words. 59 00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:25,000 Speaker 2: But that apparently is what this is, because yes, it 60 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:27,480 Speaker 2: got everybody upset. And now you've even got, as I mentioned, 61 00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:30,679 Speaker 2: Republicans talking about this in two separate Republican led committees, 62 00:03:30,960 --> 00:03:32,640 Speaker 2: one of the Senate, one of the House set to 63 00:03:32,720 --> 00:03:33,440 Speaker 2: investigate this. 64 00:03:33,919 --> 00:03:35,920 Speaker 3: We'll see if the administration can get ahead of it. 65 00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:39,840 Speaker 2: CC I know he said, this is a peaceful turtle, 66 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:45,000 Speaker 2: typically not caring a missile launcher. Nor is Ian Marlow, 67 00:03:45,160 --> 00:03:48,280 Speaker 2: he joins US now covering the State Department National Security 68 00:03:48,280 --> 00:03:51,880 Speaker 2: and Diplomacy. I'm guessing Ian Marlow has never seen anything 69 00:03:51,960 --> 00:03:53,640 Speaker 2: quite like this. It's good to see if hope you 70 00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:57,600 Speaker 2: had a great Thanksgiving the turtle aside. 71 00:03:57,920 --> 00:04:02,600 Speaker 3: Would such an order be a war crime? I think so, 72 00:04:02,680 --> 00:04:04,760 Speaker 3: I mean under international law. Yeah. 73 00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:07,040 Speaker 5: Then there's been a lot of concern, a lot of 74 00:04:07,120 --> 00:04:11,960 Speaker 5: questions raised about these strikes in Venezuela, even before we 75 00:04:12,040 --> 00:04:15,760 Speaker 5: heard about this, the latest, this kill order. 76 00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:18,159 Speaker 3: You know, I think people are. 77 00:04:19,880 --> 00:04:24,279 Speaker 5: Wondering exactly whether this changes our perspective on this. In 78 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:27,920 Speaker 5: the sense of the strikes. Everyone kind of already thought 79 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:30,080 Speaker 5: a lot of these strikes were illegal. You had this 80 00:04:30,600 --> 00:04:33,000 Speaker 5: declaration from the administration that they were in kind of 81 00:04:33,080 --> 00:04:39,279 Speaker 5: non armed you know, combat with these international cartels, which 82 00:04:39,320 --> 00:04:41,800 Speaker 5: seemed to be some kind of legal cover for the 83 00:04:41,839 --> 00:04:43,720 Speaker 5: sorts of things they were doing. Because they're trying to 84 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:47,839 Speaker 5: declare these people enemy combatants, so you can shoot on 85 00:04:47,960 --> 00:04:52,080 Speaker 5: site rather than kind of apprehend and investigate them. You know, 86 00:04:52,200 --> 00:04:56,000 Speaker 5: I think this latest one is is very pertinent for 87 00:04:56,080 --> 00:05:01,080 Speaker 5: whether Hexith lasts much longer in this role. You know, 88 00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:05,520 Speaker 5: if this becomes something that keeps rolling on in DC, 89 00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:09,800 Speaker 5: you know, accusations of war crimes, that's not particularly a 90 00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:13,760 Speaker 5: good look. I think they've embraced the controversy over these strikes, 91 00:05:14,839 --> 00:05:19,560 Speaker 5: over intimidating Venezuela, you know, talking tough about these cartels 92 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:23,240 Speaker 5: and talking about how these strikes and the you know, 93 00:05:23,279 --> 00:05:26,640 Speaker 5: the sort of brazen nature of them in general is 94 00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:31,720 Speaker 5: meant to act as some kind of you know message 95 00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:35,799 Speaker 5: two cartels. You know, this is what we're doing. We're tough, 96 00:05:36,120 --> 00:05:39,680 Speaker 5: you know, try us, you know, and that's you know, 97 00:05:40,120 --> 00:05:41,880 Speaker 5: I don't know whether that holds up in a court 98 00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:45,240 Speaker 5: of law, but you know, the question with international law, 99 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:49,279 Speaker 5: as always is is what court of law are you 100 00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:54,520 Speaker 5: talking about? And you know, trying US soldiers, US commanders 101 00:05:55,200 --> 00:05:57,760 Speaker 5: in some kind of court outside of the US in particular, 102 00:05:57,800 --> 00:05:59,600 Speaker 5: it is not something the US generally goes for. 103 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:03,760 Speaker 2: Also, is it possible for the US to close the 104 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:06,280 Speaker 2: airspace over Venezuela. That's what the President said over the 105 00:06:06,279 --> 00:06:10,120 Speaker 2: weekend attention to the airlines, the airspace is closed. That 106 00:06:10,160 --> 00:06:13,599 Speaker 2: would not be something that another sovereign nation could declare, 107 00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:13,960 Speaker 2: is it. 108 00:06:14,480 --> 00:06:15,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't think so. 109 00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:17,520 Speaker 5: I mean, I don't think the US can necessarily declare 110 00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:20,080 Speaker 5: it either. I think I mean, obviously, everyone took this 111 00:06:20,120 --> 00:06:22,920 Speaker 5: as some kind of you know, it's kind of like 112 00:06:22,960 --> 00:06:25,440 Speaker 5: when people talk about airspace over the Middle East, you know, 113 00:06:25,480 --> 00:06:29,800 Speaker 5: when there's you know, strikes going on, you know, activity 114 00:06:29,800 --> 00:06:32,320 Speaker 5: against Iran or Israel and the rest of it. So 115 00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:34,920 Speaker 5: I think everyone took this as some kind of you know, 116 00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:38,000 Speaker 5: are they going to go after Venezuela. I mean, that's 117 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:39,960 Speaker 5: one of the biggest questions, you know, and. 118 00:06:39,839 --> 00:06:43,680 Speaker 2: Shooting things down affairs I can't imagine. So here's where 119 00:06:43,760 --> 00:06:47,440 Speaker 2: the diplomacy comes into play. And I'm just curious how 120 00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:49,120 Speaker 2: you're putting this all together in your head and how 121 00:06:49,160 --> 00:06:53,000 Speaker 2: you're reading this. Apparently the president's talking to Maduro, the 122 00:06:53,080 --> 00:06:56,560 Speaker 2: leader of Venezuela, who would be replaced at a regime change. 123 00:06:56,640 --> 00:06:58,880 Speaker 2: This also came up on the jet Listen to this 124 00:06:58,920 --> 00:06:59,360 Speaker 2: back and. 125 00:06:59,279 --> 00:07:02,039 Speaker 1: Forth your times that you had a bone fall with 126 00:07:02,120 --> 00:07:03,039 Speaker 1: Winter Group, did you. 127 00:07:03,760 --> 00:07:05,400 Speaker 4: I don't want to comment donate the issues. 128 00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:07,520 Speaker 3: Yes, can you tell us a little bit? No, I 129 00:07:07,560 --> 00:07:10,160 Speaker 3: can't do that. I don't want to comment on it. 130 00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:11,360 Speaker 3: The answer is yes. 131 00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:15,320 Speaker 2: Is this some sort of four D chess here where 132 00:07:15,320 --> 00:07:17,520 Speaker 2: we're blowing stuff up, we're closing the airspace? 133 00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:20,000 Speaker 3: All well, he's on the line. 134 00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:26,280 Speaker 5: It is a very intriguing policy towards Venezuela right now. 135 00:07:26,440 --> 00:07:29,360 Speaker 5: I mean, there were talks, you know, being led by 136 00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:32,000 Speaker 5: Rick Garnell. They call those off. That calling them off 137 00:07:32,080 --> 00:07:33,680 Speaker 5: was meant to be some kind of prelude to war. 138 00:07:34,440 --> 00:07:38,480 Speaker 5: And we're talking again. There's you know, they've mobilized, you know, 139 00:07:38,680 --> 00:07:40,600 Speaker 5: half of the US military and sent it down to 140 00:07:40,640 --> 00:07:44,200 Speaker 5: the Caribbean. It's it's just a very strange thing where 141 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:50,280 Speaker 5: I think the administration kind of enjoys the the tenter 142 00:07:50,320 --> 00:07:52,280 Speaker 5: hooks they have everyone on here, you know what I mean. 143 00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:56,400 Speaker 5: And I think you don't need that kind of military 144 00:07:56,440 --> 00:07:59,720 Speaker 5: firepower to blow some of these boats out of the water. 145 00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:03,160 Speaker 5: Are two guys hanging on to some flotsom, you know. 146 00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:07,320 Speaker 5: So it's it's it's a very weird situation we find 147 00:08:07,320 --> 00:08:09,520 Speaker 5: ourselves in. And I think there's a lot of questions now, 148 00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:11,960 Speaker 5: A lot of the questions were like, you know, first 149 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:14,200 Speaker 5: of all, why are they doing this as opposed to 150 00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:16,920 Speaker 5: apprehending them, investigating them, And those are some of the 151 00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:21,120 Speaker 5: critique from the democratic side. Rightly interrogate them, go up 152 00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:23,560 Speaker 5: the chain of command and try, you know, try and 153 00:08:23,920 --> 00:08:26,120 Speaker 5: find some of the high level cartel people. You know, 154 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:27,880 Speaker 5: a lot of the some of the commentary is even 155 00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:29,840 Speaker 5: focused on the fact that a lot of the people 156 00:08:29,960 --> 00:08:33,240 Speaker 5: kind of trafficking and moving these drugs are likely not 157 00:08:33,480 --> 00:08:36,480 Speaker 5: actually formally members of some of these cartels that the 158 00:08:36,559 --> 00:08:40,280 Speaker 5: administration is targeting. So who are they combatants? You know, 159 00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:41,680 Speaker 5: some of them might be fishing, you know, some of 160 00:08:41,720 --> 00:08:44,680 Speaker 5: them have apparently been you know, fishermen off the coast 161 00:08:44,720 --> 00:08:48,280 Speaker 5: of Trinidad and Tobago, and so it's it's very unclear, 162 00:08:49,040 --> 00:08:52,079 Speaker 5: but the overall strategy again is sort of unclear. 163 00:08:52,280 --> 00:08:53,080 Speaker 3: Forty chess. 164 00:08:54,400 --> 00:08:56,840 Speaker 5: You know, I think that if it is, there's a 165 00:08:56,840 --> 00:08:58,920 Speaker 5: lot of us who are missing. You know, the first 166 00:08:58,920 --> 00:09:00,240 Speaker 5: three dimensions of that I. 167 00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:01,680 Speaker 3: Think understood well. 168 00:09:01,720 --> 00:09:04,440 Speaker 2: Put this new press Corps at the Pentagon is going 169 00:09:04,480 --> 00:09:06,000 Speaker 2: to get its first briefing today. 170 00:09:06,520 --> 00:09:08,240 Speaker 3: Will we learn anything about any of this? 171 00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:12,160 Speaker 5: I am not sure, and I am not sure what 172 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:13,640 Speaker 5: kind of questions We're going to get. 173 00:09:13,559 --> 00:09:16,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, from some of these moral lumer these journalists, Sam 174 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:20,000 Speaker 2: maybe Lynn del TV? Did they did Lindell get in there? 175 00:09:20,080 --> 00:09:23,040 Speaker 3: James? I can't remember if they're part of that. Yeah. 176 00:09:23,080 --> 00:09:25,400 Speaker 2: We'll have much more on this as we make our 177 00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:27,640 Speaker 2: way through the program. And big thanks to Ian Marlow 178 00:09:27,720 --> 00:09:29,880 Speaker 2: for getting us started. It's always a pleasure to find 179 00:09:29,920 --> 00:09:32,800 Speaker 2: Ian's work on the terminal and online. Stay with us 180 00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:35,079 Speaker 2: on Balance of Power. We'll have much more coming up 181 00:09:35,120 --> 00:09:35,559 Speaker 2: after this. 182 00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:43,320 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power Podcast. Catch 183 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:46,440 Speaker 1: us live weekdays at noon and five pm Eastern on 184 00:09:46,559 --> 00:09:49,800 Speaker 1: Apple Cockway and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. 185 00:09:49,840 --> 00:09:52,880 Speaker 1: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our 186 00:09:52,920 --> 00:09:57,440 Speaker 1: flagship New York station, Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty. 187 00:09:58,760 --> 00:10:03,320 Speaker 2: They're preparing invent instigations on Capitol Hill. The story has 188 00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:06,360 Speaker 2: nothing to do with Jeffrey Epstein. The Senate Armed Services 189 00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:09,520 Speaker 2: Committe announcing it will be quote conducting vigorous oversight to 190 00:10:09,559 --> 00:10:13,720 Speaker 2: determine the facts unquote. We had a similar statement from 191 00:10:13,760 --> 00:10:16,440 Speaker 2: the House Armed Services Committee. Of course, they are both 192 00:10:17,360 --> 00:10:22,760 Speaker 2: Republican led with a Republican controlled Congress. We heard over 193 00:10:22,800 --> 00:10:25,679 Speaker 2: the weekend from the likes of Mike Turner of Ohio 194 00:10:25,840 --> 00:10:31,640 Speaker 2: Don Bacon of Nebraska, suggesting that this kill them all order, 195 00:10:31,679 --> 00:10:36,040 Speaker 2: if real, would be illegal. Tim Kaine, the Democrat from Virginia, 196 00:10:36,200 --> 00:10:39,640 Speaker 2: takes it a step further to actually use the phrase 197 00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:43,959 Speaker 2: war crime. This does not appear to be an administration 198 00:10:44,120 --> 00:10:47,280 Speaker 2: terribly worried about it. And we're talking about the destruction 199 00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:50,880 Speaker 2: of these drug boats, these alleged drug smuggling boats coming 200 00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:54,720 Speaker 2: out of Venezuela. Washington Post reporting over the weekend heg 201 00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:59,400 Speaker 2: Seth gave a spoken order to kill all crew members 202 00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:01,240 Speaker 2: on one of these boats. 203 00:11:01,280 --> 00:11:02,840 Speaker 3: That saw a couple of them survive. 204 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:04,760 Speaker 2: They're hanging on to the side of this thing, and 205 00:11:04,760 --> 00:11:08,160 Speaker 2: we went back in and struck them twice. Now, President Trump, 206 00:11:08,160 --> 00:11:11,960 Speaker 2: who says he still has great confidence in the Defense Secretary, 207 00:11:12,559 --> 00:11:16,000 Speaker 2: says he never said that and he believes him one 208 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:16,800 Speaker 2: hundred percent. 209 00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:20,640 Speaker 3: But he's going to look into it. 210 00:11:21,559 --> 00:11:23,760 Speaker 2: And around five o'clock today in the White House, apparently 211 00:11:23,840 --> 00:11:26,679 Speaker 2: the President will get a briefing on all of this 212 00:11:26,840 --> 00:11:31,040 Speaker 2: that's separate and unrelated to the investigations that are taking 213 00:11:31,040 --> 00:11:35,000 Speaker 2: place on Capitol Hill, or will as lawmakers get back 214 00:11:35,040 --> 00:11:37,960 Speaker 2: to Town Today, it's where we start with our political panel, 215 00:11:38,360 --> 00:11:40,960 Speaker 2: also back together for the first time in more than 216 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:44,120 Speaker 2: a week, Rick Davis, Republican strategist and partner at Stone 217 00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:48,120 Speaker 2: Court Capital, alongside Geenie Shanzino, democracy visiting fellow at Harvard 218 00:11:48,160 --> 00:11:52,440 Speaker 2: Kennedy School's Ash Center, our democratic analysts, both Bloomberg Politics contributors. 219 00:11:52,480 --> 00:11:54,080 Speaker 2: It's great to see both of you, and I hope 220 00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:57,920 Speaker 2: you both had a great holiday with your families and friends. Rick, 221 00:11:57,960 --> 00:12:00,920 Speaker 2: you're no stranger to the Pentagon. Of course, you spend 222 00:12:00,920 --> 00:12:03,680 Speaker 2: a lot of time with a navyman in the United 223 00:12:03,679 --> 00:12:05,360 Speaker 2: States Senate. We don't need to go through all of 224 00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:09,400 Speaker 2: that right now when you start hearing terms like illegal, 225 00:12:09,559 --> 00:12:14,319 Speaker 2: illegal order, like war crime, how should we be preparing 226 00:12:14,960 --> 00:12:17,960 Speaker 2: for the next stage of this story, because the President's 227 00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:19,120 Speaker 2: going to try to get out in front of this 228 00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:21,880 Speaker 2: later on today he says he believes Pete Hegseth. 229 00:12:21,920 --> 00:12:22,400 Speaker 3: How about you. 230 00:12:24,280 --> 00:12:26,360 Speaker 6: Yeah, you know, normally you wouldn't walk the president out 231 00:12:26,360 --> 00:12:30,719 Speaker 6: ahead of this. You just follow the fat pattern. If 232 00:12:30,720 --> 00:12:34,120 Speaker 6: there was indeed a second attack on the survivors of 233 00:12:34,160 --> 00:12:37,760 Speaker 6: the initial attack, somebody gave the order to attack, and 234 00:12:38,920 --> 00:12:43,080 Speaker 6: chain of command is very, very important in a combat situation, 235 00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:46,160 Speaker 6: and so it's not that hard to follow the chan 236 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:49,000 Speaker 6: of command back to who gave the order. I'm a 237 00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:52,360 Speaker 6: little surprised if it's not Pete heggsith it's true what 238 00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:55,560 Speaker 6: he was saying, then somebody did and they have to 239 00:12:55,800 --> 00:12:59,760 Speaker 6: account for that. So you can run, but you can't 240 00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:03,360 Speaker 6: hie on this one. This is what makes the US 241 00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:07,760 Speaker 6: military so unique and different is their discipline. Uh, the 242 00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:11,160 Speaker 6: importance of chain of command, the importance of law in 243 00:13:11,679 --> 00:13:17,920 Speaker 6: combat situation, and when you have representatives Turner and others saying, 244 00:13:18,760 --> 00:13:21,280 Speaker 6: you know that these things would be a violation of 245 00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:26,880 Speaker 6: international and US law. These are the most sober experts 246 00:13:26,960 --> 00:13:31,120 Speaker 6: within the Republican Party around these kinds of issues and defense, 247 00:13:31,280 --> 00:13:36,120 Speaker 6: national security, and intelligence. And you've got to have this 248 00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:37,040 Speaker 6: answer quick. 249 00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:37,640 Speaker 7: Uh. 250 00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:42,360 Speaker 6: If by week and we're still talking about this, it's 251 00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:46,320 Speaker 6: going to be a huge bruise on the Trump administration's 252 00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:51,199 Speaker 6: inability to answer simple questions about these combat situations. 253 00:13:52,440 --> 00:13:56,079 Speaker 2: Well, it's not like Pete Hegseth is openly worried about this. 254 00:13:56,160 --> 00:13:58,640 Speaker 2: We did hear from the President on Air Force one, Genie, 255 00:13:58,640 --> 00:14:00,920 Speaker 2: and I mentioned what he said. I wouldn't have wanted 256 00:14:00,920 --> 00:14:03,640 Speaker 2: that he said not a second strike. The first strike 257 00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:07,080 Speaker 2: was very lethal, but says he also believes Pete hag 258 00:14:07,120 --> 00:14:09,720 Speaker 2: Seth one that he never gave that order. 259 00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:10,480 Speaker 3: Heg Seth. 260 00:14:10,559 --> 00:14:13,600 Speaker 2: On the other hand, on X out there with Franklin 261 00:14:13,679 --> 00:14:18,800 Speaker 2: the Turtle, apparently this is a children's book that he 262 00:14:18,920 --> 00:14:20,720 Speaker 2: was writing in his head at the time. You've got 263 00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:23,000 Speaker 2: the Turtle hanging on the side of a Huey helicopter 264 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:27,080 Speaker 2: shooting a shoulder fired missile down at drug boats in 265 00:14:27,120 --> 00:14:32,760 Speaker 2: the water. Franklin targets Narco terrorists is the. 266 00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:33,600 Speaker 3: Name of the bedtime story. 267 00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:35,880 Speaker 2: If you're with us on YouTube or on Bloomberg TV, 268 00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:37,720 Speaker 2: you see what I'm talking about. What do you make 269 00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:43,720 Speaker 2: of the communications effort here, Genie, you know Franklin is. 270 00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:48,600 Speaker 7: A beloved children's character, and teg Seth, I think you 271 00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:52,040 Speaker 7: know it speaks volumes that that is what he put out, 272 00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:59,000 Speaker 7: this twisted replication of Franklin shooting down missiles when he 273 00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:01,320 Speaker 7: is being accused of, let's. 274 00:15:01,160 --> 00:15:03,560 Speaker 3: Be real now, a war crime. 275 00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:07,960 Speaker 7: Even if you believe the White House that these are 276 00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:11,880 Speaker 7: enemy combatants, which very few of us do when they 277 00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:16,080 Speaker 7: are rendered unable to defend themselves, hanging on rafts in 278 00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:20,240 Speaker 7: water and you shoot and kill them. That is a 279 00:15:20,360 --> 00:15:24,160 Speaker 7: war crime. That is what the accusation is. If they're 280 00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:27,720 Speaker 7: not enemy combatants, it is murder. So there is no 281 00:15:27,920 --> 00:15:32,800 Speaker 7: good explanation for this. And the Secretary of Defense's answer 282 00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:37,280 Speaker 7: is a turtle shooting down Narco terrorists, so he claims. 283 00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:40,360 Speaker 7: I think it speaks volumes about the lack of seriousness 284 00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:43,960 Speaker 7: and it is critically important that the Senate and the House, 285 00:15:44,120 --> 00:15:48,840 Speaker 7: led by Republicans, engage in serious oversight to see what 286 00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:51,840 Speaker 7: has happened. And I also want to point out, Joe, 287 00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:54,840 Speaker 7: all of this came out in the Washington Post a 288 00:15:54,960 --> 00:15:58,320 Speaker 7: mist pete Head sets Beth stefforts to keep all of 289 00:15:58,360 --> 00:16:02,000 Speaker 7: the press out of the Pentagon. It didn't help, as 290 00:16:02,040 --> 00:16:05,040 Speaker 7: we discussed before, and some of the best recording we've 291 00:16:05,080 --> 00:16:08,840 Speaker 7: seen on the Pentagon has come since. So three cheers 292 00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:12,400 Speaker 7: for the press in the United States for not being 293 00:16:12,520 --> 00:16:16,320 Speaker 7: cowed by Pete Headsa's best attempts to keep them from 294 00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:18,560 Speaker 7: investigating what he is doing there. 295 00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:21,480 Speaker 2: Well, it's not lost on us that Franklin is a 296 00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:25,240 Speaker 2: Canadian turtle. It was a Canadian children's book series, so 297 00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:30,160 Speaker 2: just for context there. But to Janie's point, Rick, not 298 00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:33,080 Speaker 2: a lot of journalists left inside the pentagonalists. You consider 299 00:16:33,160 --> 00:16:38,040 Speaker 2: the Gateway pundit postmillennial human events national pulse Laurel Lumer 300 00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:44,280 Speaker 2: to be such. The Defense Department is actually going to 301 00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:46,040 Speaker 2: be briefing them for the first time today, now that 302 00:16:46,040 --> 00:16:48,600 Speaker 2: they kicked out Tony and everybody else from the briefing 303 00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:51,480 Speaker 2: room because they didn't sign this pledge to not report 304 00:16:51,560 --> 00:16:59,160 Speaker 2: unsolicited information or to even solicit information. Press Secretary Kingsley Wilson, 305 00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:02,000 Speaker 2: an aam I've never said on the air before because 306 00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:06,000 Speaker 2: she has never held a news briefing, is scheduled to 307 00:17:06,040 --> 00:17:09,840 Speaker 2: conduct one today. There'll be a meet in a Greek 308 00:17:09,880 --> 00:17:17,000 Speaker 2: press gaggle with the aforementioned Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth, who 309 00:17:17,359 --> 00:17:20,159 Speaker 2: last spoke publicly I think when he went to Quantico 310 00:17:20,480 --> 00:17:23,960 Speaker 2: in a formal address. Rick, do we suspect that we'll 311 00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:27,720 Speaker 2: get a briefing on these drug boats today? 312 00:17:28,320 --> 00:17:29,040 Speaker 3: Well, if there's going. 313 00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:31,320 Speaker 6: To be a briefing, it's got to address the number 314 00:17:31,320 --> 00:17:34,600 Speaker 6: one issue in the news these days, and that would 315 00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:39,480 Speaker 6: be the double tap on the drug boat. The reality is, 316 00:17:40,040 --> 00:17:42,600 Speaker 6: be careful what you asked. For sure, it's stacked. These 317 00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:45,200 Speaker 6: are all the friends of the administration who are now 318 00:17:45,240 --> 00:17:49,880 Speaker 6: occupying space in the once vaulted Pentagon press room. 319 00:17:50,840 --> 00:17:52,920 Speaker 3: But look what happened in the White House last week. 320 00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:57,000 Speaker 6: I mean, like Mandanni, the mayor elect from New York 321 00:17:57,040 --> 00:18:01,119 Speaker 6: shows up and they all attack him. It was not 322 00:18:01,240 --> 00:18:03,080 Speaker 6: exactly what I think the President had in mind on 323 00:18:03,119 --> 00:18:05,600 Speaker 6: the love fest that he was promoting. And so we 324 00:18:05,720 --> 00:18:09,560 Speaker 6: know the right has been very suspicious of the administration's 325 00:18:09,560 --> 00:18:13,080 Speaker 6: efforts in Venezuela, questioning whether or not you know this 326 00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:17,159 Speaker 6: is an American first policy. And I wouldn't be surprised 327 00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:20,160 Speaker 6: to get a bunch of negative feedback from this crowd 328 00:18:20,760 --> 00:18:24,920 Speaker 6: to whoever winds up in the Pentagon briefing today. And 329 00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:29,359 Speaker 6: so don't assume anything until you see the results of 330 00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:31,280 Speaker 6: this one, because I think this could be interesting. 331 00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:35,280 Speaker 2: It's going to be very interesting, I guess, as will 332 00:18:35,359 --> 00:18:39,240 Speaker 2: the results of President Trump's MRI genie. This is something 333 00:18:39,280 --> 00:18:42,080 Speaker 2: that came up on Air Force One over the weekend. 334 00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:45,600 Speaker 2: It came up with the Governor Tim Watts, who responded 335 00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:49,280 Speaker 2: to a very disparaging tweet by the President or truth 336 00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:51,720 Speaker 2: or something, by asking him about the results of the MRI. 337 00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:54,119 Speaker 3: We know that he had one genie. We don't know 338 00:18:54,160 --> 00:18:54,720 Speaker 3: what it was. 339 00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:56,879 Speaker 2: For and with all the questions we talked about the 340 00:18:56,880 --> 00:18:59,800 Speaker 2: New York Times hit piece on the president's health last, 341 00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:04,480 Speaker 2: with all the questions about his age, health, cognitive ability. 342 00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:07,520 Speaker 2: This has come back to the fore and so reporters 343 00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:10,040 Speaker 2: asked the President at the back of the jet what 344 00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:13,480 Speaker 2: the MRI was for. Listen to this back and forth 345 00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:14,200 Speaker 2: with the president. 346 00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:17,119 Speaker 3: If you want to have it released, I'll release it please. 347 00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:20,280 Speaker 3: That's my favorite looking marriage for what releasing? 348 00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:20,840 Speaker 6: Yet? 349 00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:23,280 Speaker 3: Know what part of your body was the MRI looking for? 350 00:19:23,359 --> 00:19:25,040 Speaker 3: I have no idea. It was just an MRI. 351 00:19:25,240 --> 00:19:26,159 Speaker 5: What part of the body. 352 00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:29,120 Speaker 4: It wasn't the brain because I took a cognitive test 353 00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:31,639 Speaker 4: and I acedaid. I got a perfect bark, which you 354 00:19:31,680 --> 00:19:33,040 Speaker 4: would be incapable of doing. 355 00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:37,440 Speaker 2: He's just he's always got the zinger in there, genie. 356 00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:39,119 Speaker 2: But I just want to go back. They were, what 357 00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:41,840 Speaker 2: part of your body was the MRI looking at? He said, 358 00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:46,760 Speaker 2: I have no idea, It was just an MRI. What 359 00:19:46,920 --> 00:19:49,000 Speaker 2: part of the body? He said, It wasn't the brain 360 00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:51,080 Speaker 2: because I took a cognitive test and aced it. 361 00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:52,679 Speaker 3: A genie. 362 00:19:52,680 --> 00:19:55,400 Speaker 2: I'll just speak for myself. Anytime I've ever had an MRI. 363 00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:57,399 Speaker 2: I've had a couple of them. First of all, I 364 00:19:57,440 --> 00:19:59,560 Speaker 2: was very scared to go into this weird dark thing, 365 00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:02,639 Speaker 2: you know, the claustrophobia, But I was very sure what 366 00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:04,200 Speaker 2: part of the body they were looking at. 367 00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:08,760 Speaker 3: What do you make of this answer? I'm trying to. 368 00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:12,280 Speaker 7: Think Joe, was it person, woman, man, camera TV? That's 369 00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:16,400 Speaker 7: what the commonest that he aced. Yes, I'm with you, Joe. 370 00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:19,240 Speaker 7: Every time I've had an MRI and I am claustrophobic, 371 00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:22,000 Speaker 7: So I don't like him. You know why you're there, 372 00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:25,040 Speaker 7: So it's odd the president doesn't know why he's there. 373 00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:28,639 Speaker 7: Also odd is the fact that this is for and 374 00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:32,640 Speaker 7: a supposedly annual checkup, and then they said, wait, it's 375 00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:36,000 Speaker 7: going to be semi annual. In October, nobody explained why 376 00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:39,359 Speaker 7: he is the president of the United States. And he 377 00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:43,080 Speaker 7: was cowed into this, essentially by the governor, because what 378 00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:46,160 Speaker 7: was the president doing midnight on Thanksgiving when the rest 379 00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:49,680 Speaker 7: of us were celebrating with friends, family, sleeping, drinking, whatever 380 00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:50,280 Speaker 7: you were doing. 381 00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:51,879 Speaker 3: He was on truth. 382 00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:56,560 Speaker 7: Social posting horrific words that even kindergarteners know not to 383 00:20:56,600 --> 00:21:01,679 Speaker 7: say that are incredibly detrimental about the governor of Minnesota, 384 00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:04,640 Speaker 7: who came back and said maybe you're not feeling well 385 00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:07,679 Speaker 7: and should release the results of your MRI. So I 386 00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:10,440 Speaker 7: hope we get these results. Of course, in true Trump's style, 387 00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:13,720 Speaker 7: he followed it by telling the reporter, a female reporter, 388 00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:16,040 Speaker 7: as usual, you wouldn't have been able to ace the 389 00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:18,040 Speaker 7: cognitive tests, So there. 390 00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:19,560 Speaker 3: You go, typical. 391 00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:24,280 Speaker 2: Rick, have you ever had an MRI but didn't know why? 392 00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:30,720 Speaker 6: No, I'm not sure I've actually had an RI, and 393 00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:33,119 Speaker 6: if I did, i'd preak complicated. 394 00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:34,399 Speaker 3: While I was in there doing it. I try to. 395 00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:38,399 Speaker 6: Avoid hospitals as much as possible, but obviously so with 396 00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:40,919 Speaker 6: you on that. The president has a way of just 397 00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:44,440 Speaker 6: forgetting what happens inside them, so maybe he's found a 398 00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:45,400 Speaker 6: better way to deal with it. 399 00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:48,359 Speaker 2: They give you headphones, you know, they'll play music for 400 00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:50,199 Speaker 2: you when you're in there because it's loud and scary. 401 00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:52,480 Speaker 2: Maybe they just had some great music. Lee Greenwood was 402 00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:54,840 Speaker 2: playing or something like that. But if we get some 403 00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:57,119 Speaker 2: details on the MRI said he released it, we'll have 404 00:21:57,160 --> 00:22:00,000 Speaker 2: it for you here. Genie and Rick will talk about it. 405 00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:02,840 Speaker 2: We'll put our panel together. Really glad to have these 406 00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:05,840 Speaker 2: two back together after Thanksgiving. I'm thankful for our panel. 407 00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:09,560 Speaker 2: Even the Monday after Rick Davis and Jeanie Shanzino stay 408 00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:11,680 Speaker 2: with us on Balance of Power. We'll have much more 409 00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:12,680 Speaker 2: coming up after this. 410 00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:21,600 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch 411 00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:25,600 Speaker 1: us live weekdays at noon and five pm Eastern on Apple, Coarplay, 412 00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:28,679 Speaker 1: and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. Listen on 413 00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:32,000 Speaker 1: demand wherever you get your podcasts, or watch us live 414 00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:33,120 Speaker 1: on YouTube. 415 00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:37,920 Speaker 2: The Monday edition underway with some big questions that we're 416 00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:41,159 Speaker 2: asking about the congressional agenda, as we just explored with 417 00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:44,320 Speaker 2: our political panel, but also when it comes to Warren Peace. 418 00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:47,600 Speaker 2: Steve Whitkoff is getting on an airplane today, probably packing 419 00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:50,800 Speaker 2: his bags right now. The man who has not been 420 00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:54,159 Speaker 2: to Ukraine yet this year, is making his sixth trip 421 00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:57,760 Speaker 2: to Moscow where he will be sitting down with Vladimir Putin. 422 00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:00,359 Speaker 2: And he's not the only one talking about this. President 423 00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:03,879 Speaker 2: Zelenski in France today to speak with Emmanuel Macron, who 424 00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:08,840 Speaker 2: we understand just as well spoke with President Trump about Ukraine. 425 00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:11,560 Speaker 2: That headline just crossed the terminal a short time ago 426 00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:15,320 Speaker 2: with hopes that were on the precipice of some sort 427 00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:18,520 Speaker 2: of breakthrough here. Knowing that whitkof Jared Kushner and the 428 00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:21,960 Speaker 2: Secretary of State Marco Rubio have helped to hammer out 429 00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:24,600 Speaker 2: something in the area of what is now we understand 430 00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:29,119 Speaker 2: a nineteen point piece plan, having had a five hour 431 00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:33,720 Speaker 2: meeting over the weekend here outside of Miami focused on 432 00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:37,920 Speaker 2: exactly where the border will be drawn in Ukraine. According 433 00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:42,200 Speaker 2: to the latest from Axios, Whitcoff hosting the company at 434 00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:46,440 Speaker 2: his Shell Bay golf club near Miami before he heads 435 00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:49,600 Speaker 2: to Moscow in hopes of presenting something to Vladimir Putin 436 00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:52,280 Speaker 2: when he gets there this week. This could be a 437 00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:56,240 Speaker 2: pivotal week in the future trajectory of this war. The 438 00:23:56,280 --> 00:24:00,639 Speaker 2: President was asked about motivations when it comes to seeking 439 00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:03,119 Speaker 2: peace on the flight home last evening. Here he is 440 00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:04,640 Speaker 2: talking with reporters on air Force. 441 00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:05,240 Speaker 3: Want listen. 442 00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:07,760 Speaker 4: I think Russia would like to see it end, and 443 00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:10,320 Speaker 4: I think Crane, I know Ukraine would like to see it. 444 00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:12,880 Speaker 3: You just said the straight has a little bit of problem. 445 00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:15,439 Speaker 4: Well, we have a corruption situation going on which is 446 00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:16,520 Speaker 4: not helpful. 447 00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:18,199 Speaker 7: It is not impeding the peace talks. 448 00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:19,200 Speaker 3: I said it. 449 00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:21,320 Speaker 4: What's going on for three years? Right? Didn't I say it? 450 00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:23,480 Speaker 4: For three years? I said it? So I was way 451 00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:28,200 Speaker 4: ahead of schedule, but I think that there's a good 452 00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:29,320 Speaker 4: chance we can make a deal. 453 00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:33,439 Speaker 2: Indeed, three years the president who said he would have 454 00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:36,280 Speaker 2: this war ended on day one, we are now rounding 455 00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:38,720 Speaker 2: out year one and joined in studio. I'm glad to 456 00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:41,840 Speaker 2: say by Ben Jensen, who comes to us from csis 457 00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:45,159 Speaker 2: Director of the Future's Lab, Senior Fellow for the Defense 458 00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:48,200 Speaker 2: and Security Department at the Center for Strategic and International Studies. Ben, 459 00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:50,360 Speaker 2: it's great to see you. Welcome back to Bloomberg TV 460 00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:53,000 Speaker 2: and Radio. As always, we can talk to you about 461 00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:55,840 Speaker 2: military strategy and about diplomacy, and I'd like to get 462 00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:57,879 Speaker 2: to both here. Why don't we start with the obvious, 463 00:24:58,200 --> 00:24:59,800 Speaker 2: and that's the diplomatic track that Steve W. 464 00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:01,159 Speaker 3: Coff and others are on. 465 00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:06,600 Speaker 2: The President seems to be dispatching different voices here, Kushner 466 00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:10,400 Speaker 2: and witkof you go to one Secretary of State, Rubio, 467 00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:12,960 Speaker 2: you go to the other. At some point we need 468 00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:15,280 Speaker 2: everybody at the same table, don't we. 469 00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:15,760 Speaker 3: We do. 470 00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:19,160 Speaker 8: But I also this is how modern peace negotiations work. 471 00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:22,960 Speaker 8: So despite some of the strangeness that surrounds this, despite that, 472 00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:25,840 Speaker 8: it's a very tight personalistic network that the President is 473 00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:28,959 Speaker 8: using to negotiate, which is different than standard diplomatic practice, 474 00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:32,040 Speaker 8: at least in the United States. Everything you're seeing playing 475 00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:34,359 Speaker 8: out is actually not that uncommon in some sense. And 476 00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:36,240 Speaker 8: so if you look at the actual statistics of how 477 00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:41,040 Speaker 8: peace negotiations and wars end, sadly, in the modern world, 478 00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:44,320 Speaker 8: wars either peter out or you come to an uneasy 479 00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:47,439 Speaker 8: ceasefire that fails. So only thirty one percent of conflicts 480 00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:50,760 Speaker 8: end in some type of negotiated settlement, and even of those, 481 00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:55,720 Speaker 8: forty percent, even during negotiations, relapse into conflict within five years. 482 00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:58,159 Speaker 8: So I think that's why you've accurately seen Secretary of 483 00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:02,000 Speaker 8: Rubio characterize this phase is the start of a negotiation. 484 00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:03,640 Speaker 3: He called it, I think a living document. 485 00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:07,000 Speaker 8: And so that's why you have everyone going out trusted 486 00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:10,640 Speaker 8: person to person conversations and we're trying to work out 487 00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:13,480 Speaker 8: we've gone from twenty eight the US initial kind of 488 00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:15,840 Speaker 8: witcough deal. I guess we can call it down to 489 00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:17,879 Speaker 8: twenty four of the European Now we're down to a 490 00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:21,000 Speaker 8: nineteen point proposal. And so what you're seeing is each 491 00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:24,199 Speaker 8: side engage in a bargaining activity that allows them to 492 00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:28,560 Speaker 8: look at where the most intractable issues are what's mutually acceptable, 493 00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:32,760 Speaker 8: although painful to both sides. So I'm still mildly optimistic. 494 00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:35,160 Speaker 8: But I think the best case is that this all 495 00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:38,320 Speaker 8: results in a ceasefire, and I'd rate that as less 496 00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:39,159 Speaker 8: than even chances. 497 00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:42,040 Speaker 3: Fascinating. I've never heard those stats before. That's fascinating. 498 00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:46,040 Speaker 2: For the backdrop to these talks, there's a lot that 499 00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:48,240 Speaker 2: Ukraine has to potentially lose here. 500 00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:50,879 Speaker 3: What would Russia be giving up in the plans that 501 00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:51,760 Speaker 3: you've heard about. 502 00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:55,399 Speaker 8: Well, I'm curious about that too, and apparently only you know, 503 00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:57,679 Speaker 8: Special Envoy Witcough knows that, and it doesn't look like 504 00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:00,399 Speaker 8: a lot. So we've actually been studying this pretty in 505 00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:02,520 Speaker 8: depth at the Future's Lab for a year. So about 506 00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:05,120 Speaker 8: a year ago I traveled to Ukraine about every six 507 00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:06,960 Speaker 8: months to try to do my best to help out 508 00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:09,399 Speaker 8: with that side of the conflict, not the Russian side. 509 00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:11,639 Speaker 8: And what I noticed in that process is I had 510 00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:14,080 Speaker 8: a sense the war was going to is coming to 511 00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:16,760 Speaker 8: a critical point, and you're going to have to end 512 00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:18,800 Speaker 8: at some point. No war can last forever. This has 513 00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:21,919 Speaker 8: been brutal for Ukrainian society. These are people fighting for 514 00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:25,000 Speaker 8: their freedom against all odds, and so we started to 515 00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:27,520 Speaker 8: write over the last year of what would the negotiations 516 00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:30,240 Speaker 8: look like. In fact, we actually surveyed experts, we scraped 517 00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:34,880 Speaker 8: prominent news sources, and then we actually trained using an 518 00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:37,880 Speaker 8: API into chat GPT four to oh, we actually ran 519 00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:41,880 Speaker 8: a thousand different simulations of different peace negotiations to use 520 00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:45,439 Speaker 8: kind of modern technology to analyze the distribution and so 521 00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:47,600 Speaker 8: your viewers can check that out of strategic headwinds. But 522 00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:50,520 Speaker 8: that's a lot of our research on this show public. 523 00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:54,879 Speaker 8: That's all public. We built this because we want Ukrainian negotiators, 524 00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:59,000 Speaker 8: European negotiators, American negotiators first and foremost to have access 525 00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:02,320 Speaker 8: to objective, non partisan data they can use to help 526 00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:03,280 Speaker 8: find the negotiation. 527 00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:06,000 Speaker 3: What do you find in that number. 528 00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:09,840 Speaker 8: One good news about the Macron meeting Because whenever we 529 00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:12,840 Speaker 8: look at human experts or the AI model replicating them, 530 00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:16,119 Speaker 8: security guarantees are the most important thing. So the twenty 531 00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:17,960 Speaker 8: eight point plan was done on a rival because it 532 00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:21,080 Speaker 8: didn't really have anything for credible security guarantees. It kind 533 00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:25,240 Speaker 8: of threatened diplomatic demarshes and some economic punishment. So security 534 00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:28,159 Speaker 8: guarantees are by far the most important thing. Where we 535 00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:32,919 Speaker 8: saw humans and AI diverge is what comes next, And 536 00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:35,479 Speaker 8: so humans seem to think there's really a room for 537 00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:38,560 Speaker 8: freeing up these Russian frozen assets, giving it back to Moscow, 538 00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:43,120 Speaker 8: reducing sanctions, so kind of using economics to induce Moscow in. 539 00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:46,440 Speaker 8: When we ran the AI simulations and that included loading 540 00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:49,640 Speaker 8: over three hundred past piece agreements in, they were less 541 00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:53,440 Speaker 8: optimistic about the economic component. Now, I still personally think 542 00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:57,440 Speaker 8: economic statecraft is the fulcrum here. That's the only way 543 00:28:57,480 --> 00:28:59,640 Speaker 8: you can get Russia to agree. And I think the 544 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:02,360 Speaker 8: good news, if there is any out of the Witcough trips, 545 00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:04,400 Speaker 8: is that he seems to have the right people in 546 00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:07,680 Speaker 8: Russia talking about some type of investment scheme. The bad 547 00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:09,840 Speaker 8: news is that doesn't seem to direct the money to 548 00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:13,000 Speaker 8: rebuild Ukraine that Russia has spent years now destroying. 549 00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:15,880 Speaker 2: I'm blown away by this. Did you know, James, we 550 00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:19,280 Speaker 2: were going to get into this? So AI is the platform, 551 00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:22,000 Speaker 2: though economic diplomacy might be of the folk room, but 552 00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:25,760 Speaker 2: AI is the platform that you're talking about to find peace. 553 00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:28,480 Speaker 3: Yes, the future of war and peace? Well, we think so. 554 00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:31,160 Speaker 8: I mean, in my lab, we believe that AI agments 555 00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:34,960 Speaker 8: AI agents can help humans digest larger volumes of information, 556 00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:37,640 Speaker 8: so you still need expert human users. And I'm sure 557 00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:40,560 Speaker 8: your audience in Bloomberg has been using technology like this 558 00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:41,400 Speaker 8: for a long time. 559 00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:41,680 Speaker 3: Right. 560 00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:44,719 Speaker 8: It's still a trader's intuition. But the more data they 561 00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:47,400 Speaker 8: can analyze, the more they can apply a statistical reasoning 562 00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:49,640 Speaker 8: to it, the more they can find past patterns, look 563 00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:51,880 Speaker 8: for those strange signals, the more likely they are to 564 00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:54,760 Speaker 8: seize an opportunity. So what we've done is use that 565 00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:57,120 Speaker 8: initial analytics to then look at where we needed to 566 00:29:57,160 --> 00:29:59,000 Speaker 8: go deep. And that's why most of the pieces your 567 00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:01,280 Speaker 8: viewers will find on the or deal with the details 568 00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:04,880 Speaker 8: of security guarantees and then some of the economic aspects. Now, 569 00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:07,280 Speaker 8: one of the most important things to highlight in that 570 00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:09,960 Speaker 8: all parties agree is that even if it seems like 571 00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:12,320 Speaker 8: this deal comes to an end, it doesn't. That forty 572 00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:15,120 Speaker 8: percent relapsing in five years is really important, and one 573 00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:17,440 Speaker 8: of the major things to really watch for is usually 574 00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:22,000 Speaker 8: the reason it relapses is because each political party has 575 00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:26,400 Speaker 8: a backlash a spoiler, domestically so Zelenski. If that line 576 00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:29,200 Speaker 8: is drawn wrong and in the middle of a corruption scandal, 577 00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:32,280 Speaker 8: Zelinsky's all of a sudden voted or chased out of office, 578 00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:35,360 Speaker 8: and you have hardline factions come up in Ukraine. I'd 579 00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:37,800 Speaker 8: love to see Putin replaced, but we ought to really 580 00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:40,600 Speaker 8: think what comes after Putin and if even Russia would 581 00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:44,240 Speaker 8: stay a actual sovereign state or dissolve into a series 582 00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:46,160 Speaker 8: of regions. So one of the things you have to 583 00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:48,280 Speaker 8: watch for carefully is you spread this out. And this 584 00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:50,680 Speaker 8: is why it's important to build that RAG model with 585 00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:55,240 Speaker 8: AI to analyze historic piece agreements. Is that domestic political spoiler. 586 00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:58,840 Speaker 8: How domestic politics matter when you're ending in international war. 587 00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:01,160 Speaker 8: This has been a real line opener for me before 588 00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:03,240 Speaker 8: you leave us. With all of that said, do you 589 00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:05,680 Speaker 8: expect this week to bring a breakthrough? Or we weigh 590 00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:10,000 Speaker 8: over our skis on this. I hope and pray are 591 00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:14,880 Speaker 8: different than reasoned estimates, and so I would say I don't. 592 00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:16,760 Speaker 8: I think Secretary of Rubio is right, this is a 593 00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:20,000 Speaker 8: living document. I think Putin is going to prolong this 594 00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:22,400 Speaker 8: as much as possible, and he's still going to try 595 00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:25,960 Speaker 8: to bomb Ukraine into submission. Our firepower strike data showed 596 00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:30,040 Speaker 8: that the month of October saw a threefold increase over 597 00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:33,440 Speaker 8: one year. Well, so October twenty twenty four versus twenty 598 00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:37,040 Speaker 8: twenty five. Three times as many shaheeds, ballistic missiles and 599 00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:40,320 Speaker 8: cruise missiles were used to target Ukrainian cities, with a 600 00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:44,440 Speaker 8: special focus on power infrastructure. He wants the Ukrainian people 601 00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:47,720 Speaker 8: to freeze well. He protracts negotiations so that he can 602 00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:51,480 Speaker 8: get more territory and get more of that oligarch loot 603 00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:54,320 Speaker 8: back in his pocket and not investing in a dynamic 604 00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:55,720 Speaker 8: Ukrainian free economy. 605 00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:56,680 Speaker 3: Cold as a weapon. 606 00:31:57,040 --> 00:31:59,720 Speaker 2: I learned something every time I talk to you, Ben Jensen. 607 00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:02,920 Speaker 2: Cis thank you so much. We all learn from Ben 608 00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:06,440 Speaker 2: when he's here. Back it up on YouTube or on TV, 609 00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:10,600 Speaker 2: or subscribe to the podcast because I haven't heard that anywhere. 610 00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:13,719 Speaker 2: Center for Strategic and International Studies, Ben Jensen. I'm Joe 611 00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:16,800 Speaker 2: Matthew in Washington as we round out Balance of Power 612 00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:19,160 Speaker 2: here for this Monday, the early edition. We want to 613 00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:21,200 Speaker 2: just keep tabs on what's happening on Wall Street because 614 00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:23,800 Speaker 2: we saw a real run at a recovery a short 615 00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:25,600 Speaker 2: time ago. We're back in the red here, but well 616 00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:27,960 Speaker 2: off our loads of the session and normal. Linda Bloomberg, 617 00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:31,120 Speaker 2: Markets correspondent is with us now from World Headquarters in 618 00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:34,240 Speaker 2: New York. We just can't help ourselves from buying the 619 00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:34,800 Speaker 2: dip here. 620 00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:36,840 Speaker 3: Nora, We clearly cannot. 621 00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:38,640 Speaker 9: But I mean, we are seeing a lot of dip 622 00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:40,720 Speaker 9: buyers out in the market, as you mentioned here, and 623 00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:42,719 Speaker 9: this is really encouraging to a lot of the sources 624 00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:44,920 Speaker 9: that I've been speaking with, especially as we think about 625 00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:47,120 Speaker 9: the momentum headed into year end. I mean, if you 626 00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:49,080 Speaker 9: think about the fact that we've been seeing a rally, 627 00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:52,280 Speaker 9: the longest streak of monthly gain since twenty twenty one. 628 00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:54,160 Speaker 9: But as we sit here today, of course, we are 629 00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:56,400 Speaker 9: seeing a bit of a breather from that rally, as 630 00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:59,000 Speaker 9: we are seeing stocks here falling into the red, and 631 00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:01,040 Speaker 9: it's a little bit of risk off sentiment that we're 632 00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:03,239 Speaker 9: seeing percolating right now, especially as we see a lot 633 00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:06,240 Speaker 9: of traders looking ahead to the FED meeting. There's still 634 00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:09,160 Speaker 9: a lot of unrest right now, a lot of questions 635 00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:11,360 Speaker 9: right now about the strength of the consumer. But I mean, 636 00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:14,200 Speaker 9: of course, we did get that retail picture here from 637 00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:16,479 Speaker 9: Black Friday here that really did show us that we 638 00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:19,360 Speaker 9: are seeing strength in the consumer, despite the fact that 639 00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:22,000 Speaker 9: there were a lot of concerns about resiliency there. 640 00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:27,000 Speaker 2: Bitcoin remains a problem here I guess crypto across the board, 641 00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:29,400 Speaker 2: we're back below eighty five thousand, Nora. A lot of 642 00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:32,560 Speaker 2: the narrative last week and the week earlier when things 643 00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:35,200 Speaker 2: started to fall out of bed was that crypto was 644 00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:38,320 Speaker 2: the culprit here in leading stocks lower, that it was 645 00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:42,080 Speaker 2: forcing people to raise money in stocks like Nvidia and 646 00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:44,680 Speaker 2: the mag seven and it's still going down, Nora. 647 00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:47,360 Speaker 3: How should we be reading into this market wide? 648 00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:50,560 Speaker 9: Well, analysts are really looking at eighty thousand is the 649 00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:53,280 Speaker 9: new key support level here, and this is really a 650 00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:55,280 Speaker 9: big difference from what we saw when we saw a 651 00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:58,520 Speaker 9: rally a bitcoin above one hundred thousand. So we really 652 00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:01,200 Speaker 9: are seeing some pressure here on this asset class. And 653 00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:03,880 Speaker 9: it's no surprise when you did see a lot of 654 00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:06,240 Speaker 9: people pulling out of bitcoin when there is some sort 655 00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:08,239 Speaker 9: of risk off sentiment in the market. But we did 656 00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:10,960 Speaker 9: get that news from Strategy, of course, also seeing as 657 00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:13,320 Speaker 9: sell off after they said that they had we're creating 658 00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:15,960 Speaker 9: a one point four billion dollar reserve to pay for 659 00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:18,720 Speaker 9: future dividend and interest payments. But a lot of investors 660 00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:21,280 Speaker 9: are releasing that this isn't really quelling concerns. More broadly 661 00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:24,080 Speaker 9: that a lot of these companies like bitcoin Treasury firms 662 00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:27,160 Speaker 9: are actually going to be able to be forced to 663 00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:29,719 Speaker 9: sell their Bitcoin holdings here, especially if we continue to 664 00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:30,680 Speaker 9: see a downward trend. 665 00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:34,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, we'll keep tabs on the rest of the session. 666 00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:36,520 Speaker 2: With your help, Nora, Thank you so much, Nora. Melnda 667 00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:39,720 Speaker 2: back with us on Balance of Power. I'm Jill Matthew 668 00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:42,080 Speaker 2: in Washington, where we now have breaking news coming from 669 00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:44,160 Speaker 2: the White House. In our remaining moment, I do want 670 00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:46,320 Speaker 2: to let you know, and Caroline Levitt is talking about 671 00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:48,560 Speaker 2: this with reporters in the briefing room. We have a 672 00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:52,640 Speaker 2: document here about President Trump's MRII He was asked about 673 00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:54,720 Speaker 2: this on the plane last evening and could not detail 674 00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:58,799 Speaker 2: what body part was being looked at. Apparently according to 675 00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:02,400 Speaker 2: Caroline level but again the White House Press secretary, this 676 00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:03,239 Speaker 2: was preventative. 677 00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:05,400 Speaker 3: The MRI preventative imaging. 678 00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:12,160 Speaker 2: Cardiovascular imaging, the President's cardiovascular system showing excellent health. Abdominal 679 00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:15,880 Speaker 2: imaging perfectly normal. As I read from the letter, President 680 00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:19,480 Speaker 2: Trump's cardiovascular imaging perfectly normal. There is no evidence of 681 00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:23,520 Speaker 2: arterial narrowing, impairing blood flow, or abnormalities in the heart 682 00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:26,800 Speaker 2: or major vessels. The heart chambers are normal. In size 683 00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:29,880 Speaker 2: it reads. The vessel walls appear smooth and healthy, and 684 00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:33,320 Speaker 2: there are no signs of inflammation or clotting. Overall, cardiovascular 685 00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:36,920 Speaker 2: system showing excellent health. The President made clear it was 686 00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:38,920 Speaker 2: not likely his brain they were looking at. Now we 687 00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:41,000 Speaker 2: know it was his heart, and we will have more 688 00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:43,200 Speaker 2: on this on the late edition of Balance of Power. 689 00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:47,640 Speaker 3: Thanks for listening to the Balance of Power podcast. 690 00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:51,360 Speaker 2: Make sure to subscribe if you haven't already, at Apple, Spotify, 691 00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:54,040 Speaker 2: or wherever you get your podcasts, and you can find 692 00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:56,919 Speaker 2: us live every weekday from Washington, DC at New Time 693 00:35:57,000 --> 00:35:59,160 Speaker 2: Eastern at Bloomberg dot com