Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
Speaker 1: learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A
Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the show.
Speaker 3: My name is Matt, my name is Nolan.
Speaker 1: They call me Ben. We're joined as always with our
Speaker 1: super producer, fall mission controlled decand most importantly, you are here.
Speaker 1: And that makes this the stuff they don't want you
Speaker 1: to know. Recently, bit of backstage stuff, guys, we had
Speaker 1: a conversation about a particularly troubling story around Oregon transplants,
Speaker 1: which we'll get to in a moment. Fellow conspiracy realist,
Speaker 1: this inspired us to return to a continuing series of
Speaker 1: explorations and conspiracies that began in the ancient past and
Speaker 1: appear to escalate in the modern day. This is our
Speaker 1: twenty twenty three update. Who wants to Live Forever? Here
Speaker 1: are the facts you and I gonna live?
Speaker 3: Maybe? Maybe? Should? We want to be clear?
Speaker 1: Oh? I really want to know how the garden grows.
Speaker 1: I'm kidding. I am obsessed with people growing plants. I
Speaker 1: want to know all about it.
Speaker 3: How they don't kill them, because that I have a
Speaker 3: black thumb as it were. But yeah, we've we've definitely
Speaker 3: talked about this subject. Currently. There are three to four
Speaker 3: different kinds of I guess, quote unquote it seems like
Speaker 3: a bit of a hyperbolic term, but immortality, and they
Speaker 3: are not all created equal. In fact, a lot of
Speaker 3: them are kind of a monkey's pot type scenario. They're
Speaker 3: not particularly great. No, we're gonna do it. We'll do it.
Speaker 1: Let's do a quick recap, right and at the end
Speaker 1: of each we will give you the human version of it.
Speaker 1: But you're right, Noel, these different genres of practicable immortality,
Speaker 1: they're not super great. They're sort of like, you know,
Speaker 1: a Geo Metro is a car, but is it your
Speaker 1: favorite car?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 2: No, But let's talk about the jellyfish that we mentioned
Speaker 2: back in the day, because this I remember this blowing
Speaker 2: my mind when we learned this, that there's a type
Speaker 2: of jellyfish that can, upon going through some kind of
Speaker 2: traumatic event, basically morph itself or back into the early
Speaker 2: stages of life and then restart. Is that real?
Speaker 1: The Humboldt Urretopsis dorny, Yeah, it's the adult version of
Speaker 1: this would be about as wide as an adult human
Speaker 1: pinky noil. All right, so Shaquille O'Neill, this thing is
Speaker 1: not It was first discovered in eighteen eighty three or
Speaker 1: you know, we need hard air quotes around discovered. Some
Speaker 1: European scientists found it in the Mediterranean, and then they
Speaker 1: ignored it. Humans ignored this guy for around about a
Speaker 1: century give or take, until in the nineteen nineties they
Speaker 1: noticed something bizarre.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm picturing this scenario. I guess it reminds me
Speaker 3: of the way maybe like seahorses give birth. These fellas
Speaker 3: produced usually typically the old fashioned way in terms of
Speaker 3: the way old fashioned jellyfish reproduced using free floating sperm
Speaker 3: and eggs that meat not inside the body but in
Speaker 3: the ocean, you know, more like tadpole, you know, kind
Speaker 3: of scenario. And they tend to also die in regular ways,
Speaker 3: like you know, they're yummy little delicacies to sea predators,
Speaker 3: environmental hazards of course, you know, it's hard out there
Speaker 3: for a jellyfish. Not gonna lie.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're not apex predators. No, But Matt, as you
Speaker 1: were saying, the humble tourtopsis does have a superpower.
Speaker 2: So if it goes through a hard time, that doesn't
Speaker 2: fully kill the organism. It has this crazy ability to
Speaker 2: transform it cells like put him put put its own
Speaker 2: cells in a time machine, go back into its earlier stages,
Speaker 2: drop back down in the ocean, become what like polyps again, right,
Speaker 2: and then bud back into these jellyfish that then rise
Speaker 2: up and get to be jellyfish again.
Speaker 3: So what what doesn't kill them literally makes them younger
Speaker 3: and strong, stronger.
Speaker 2: What doesn't kill younger?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like they get It's like imagine you're playing
Speaker 1: a video game and you get the game over sign
Speaker 1: or you know, the screen, and then you say, okay,
Speaker 1: I'll just start again. In human terms, this is like
Speaker 1: if you were in a massive car crash catastrophic, you know,
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, instead of dying, you would turn
Speaker 1: into a fetus. So the first responders would, you know,
Speaker 1: use the jaws of life and open up the car
Speaker 1: and there would be just a little baby you.
Speaker 3: Baby, yeah, little fella.
Speaker 1: We don't know enough about this, uh tutopsis to we
Speaker 1: as a civilization don't know enough about jellyfish in general
Speaker 1: to guess at whether these things carry over any previous
Speaker 1: knowledge or experiences on their great reset. And we also
Speaker 1: don't know how often they can trigger this reboot? You know,
Speaker 1: is it like the old superstition about cats. Do they
Speaker 1: get nine lives and then it's just your final jellyfish?
Speaker 1: Or can they do a Rensom repeat process. If that's
Speaker 1: the case, under the right circumstances, these things can just
Speaker 1: continue ad infinitum.
Speaker 3: At the very least, though, you'd think I'd be interested
Speaker 3: at least then maybe a topic for a different day.
Speaker 3: You would wonder if there was research being done into
Speaker 3: how this occurs and if it can be harnessed in
Speaker 3: some way.
Speaker 1: You know, yes, how can we apply that? How Like
Speaker 1: technology is the measured application of natural processes, right, so
Speaker 1: how can we better emulate the jellyfish? This particular jellyfish.
Speaker 1: It's the only one. Just so you know, folks, next
Speaker 1: time you see a jellyfish, that thing's gonna die. You know,
Speaker 1: it's not as cool we're talking about winning the lottery.
Speaker 1: And back in two thousand and eight, these tiny little
Speaker 1: pinky nail size to atopsies. They swarmed the world's oceans,
Speaker 1: and a couple of scientists looked into this, and they
Speaker 1: found that no matter where they picked up a specimen
Speaker 1: of this jellyfish, it would bear an identical genetic code.
Speaker 1: It's not just an immortal jellyfish, it's a clone army replicating.
Speaker 3: That is wild. That should be fodder for a great story.
Speaker 1: I'm on board. I want to eat one, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean? Jellyfish? Like, let's just see what they
Speaker 1: you know, what do they taste like?
Speaker 3: All right, all right, Darwin?
Speaker 2: Right, but the jellyfish isn't the only creature we've looked
Speaker 2: at that has some kind of crazy regenerative slash immortal superpower.
Speaker 1: Right right, let's do made for TV. Let's sell our
Speaker 1: life extension technology.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 1: So okay, if it sounds inconvenient for you to turn
Speaker 1: into a baby instead of dying, why not just get
Speaker 1: a wolverine superpower? Why not study the works of the
Speaker 1: amazing and my opinion, disgusting Plenarian.
Speaker 3: Yeah, in twenty eleven, some smart folks over at MIT
Speaker 3: dug super deep into this particular superpower. Daniel Wagner and
Speaker 3: Irving Wang killed planarians in a number of ways. Yes, yeah, yeah, flatworms.
Speaker 3: Wasn't that the thing that was in that lady's brain?
Speaker 3: It was a nematode, But that wasn't far off. I
Speaker 3: think there was a yeah, well they're okay, sorry, round hole.
Speaker 1: There are a lot of worms, is the main thing.
Speaker 3: It's true, And if you're really creeped out by worms,
Speaker 3: don't watch the new Goosebumps reboot on Disney Plus. So
Speaker 3: Daniel Wagner and Irving wang Uh basically did a you know,
Speaker 3: plenarian genocide, and it became particularly interesting to them to
Speaker 3: study radiation as a means of execution because high doeses
Speaker 3: of radiation kill the animal's ability to regenerate, which makes sense.
Speaker 3: But then they conducted a transplant, putting one cell from
Speaker 3: a donor worm the tail of the irradiated terminal worms,
Speaker 3: the worm that was on its way out. National Geographic
Speaker 3: has a very telling description of the results.
Speaker 2: Yeah here he goes quote. As the planarian dies from
Speaker 2: the head backwards, the transplanted cells spread from the tail upwards.
Speaker 2: At its worst, the animal is a stunted mass with
Speaker 2: no discernible head. But two weeks after the transplant, it
Speaker 2: has completely regenerated. A new plenarian has risen phoenix like
Speaker 2: from the ashes. Its entire body is now genetically identical
Speaker 2: to the single transplanted cell.
Speaker 1: Hey, beautiful, beautiful, also okay, terrified, amazing x files in
Speaker 1: the human example. In the anthrocentric example, let's go back
Speaker 1: to that idea of the car crash.
Speaker 3: It sucked.
Speaker 1: You shouldn't driven that geometro. You have lost both your legs,
Speaker 1: maybe half your body. It's a coin toss at that point.
Speaker 1: If you have the plenarian superpower over which part of
Speaker 1: you regenerates. For a reason scientists don't fully understand, it's weirder.
Speaker 1: The plenarian, upon regeneration, upon donation of cells, upon dividing,
Speaker 1: it carries the memories of its previous existence. So, by
Speaker 1: that logic, if humans could emulate this, you would regenerate
Speaker 1: after a car crash, but two of you would regenerate,
Speaker 1: and each instance of you would have some vague recollection
Speaker 1: of the days or decades before that car crash.
Speaker 2: It reminds me of one of the Thirteen Days of
Speaker 2: Halloween stories in this season blood little transplantation that occurs.
Speaker 1: So we're so gassed right now, fellow conspiracy realist of
Speaker 1: Thirteen Days of Halloween. Big props to Matt Frederick. Big
Speaker 1: props to Ari Menke and Alex Williams. Also, Nola, I'm
Speaker 1: hearing some pretty pretty cool stuff about an episode you're
Speaker 1: working on.
Speaker 3: I'm doing some bleeps and bloops for a very cool
Speaker 3: episode written by our buddy Joe McCormick, who's also been
Speaker 3: on the show talking about Oh gosh, the by cameral mind,
Speaker 3: The by cameral mind exactly.
Speaker 1: Another instance of two things existing as one. Yes, So
Speaker 1: that's that's still inconvenient, right, That's not quite immortality. That's
Speaker 1: more franchising really.
Speaker 2: It is crazy though, that you could take cells from
Speaker 2: another individual creature, one cell, attach it to a thing
Speaker 2: that is dead and or you know, dying and about
Speaker 2: to be dead, and then it can become that dead
Speaker 2: thing like that's and the as you said, the dead
Speaker 2: thing retained stuff. I don't know, man, that's too much
Speaker 2: for me.
Speaker 1: Well, Matt, it is also October, we hurd a headlong
Speaker 1: towards the most wonderful time of the year, so what
Speaker 1: better time to talk about these creepy things. We also
Speaker 1: want to point out the third version of immortality, which
Speaker 1: does exist. It's quite cruel. It's the story of Henrietta Lax,
Speaker 1: particularly her cancer cells. She is technically the first human immortal.
Speaker 1: She was a US resident African American, died at thirty
Speaker 1: one with a evil, aggressive form of cervical cancer. She
Speaker 1: passed away. She is dead and has been dead for
Speaker 1: a long time. After her death, without her knowledge nor
Speaker 1: her consent, doctors at John Hopkins took samples of the
Speaker 1: cancer that ended her life, and they used them to
Speaker 1: form an immortal human cancer cell lide, which continues today.
Speaker 1: It's now known as HeLa. It's been used for countless
Speaker 1: medical innovations and discoveries, just like the guy who invented
Speaker 1: the three point seat belt, Neil's bullet. No relation. It's
Speaker 1: sort of difficult to it's difficult to understand how many
Speaker 1: lives this immortal saved. But the hel Us.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, in this year, the family, the descendants of
Speaker 2: that line of Henrietta Lacks, they finally settled with Thermo
Speaker 2: Fisher for a pretty hefty sum, which is at least
Speaker 2: some kind of justice in that I don't know, tail.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because they worked tirelessly for decades in a real
Speaker 1: David versus Goliath's story to get recognition for you know,
Speaker 1: what some people spiritually would view as an atrocity and
Speaker 1: one that continues. The Henrietta Lacks Sahela sels they have
Speaker 1: no memory of their origin or their previous life. You
Speaker 1: can't quite you know, you can't wire them up to
Speaker 1: a computer and have a chat. Right, And that's where
Speaker 1: we get to the fourth version of immortality, which is
Speaker 1: like immortality asterisk the newest kid on the block, living
Speaker 1: forever as a digital emulation. This is on the way.
Speaker 1: The first versions are not going.
Speaker 3: To be good.
Speaker 1: They're going to leverage large language models, you know, and
Speaker 1: some early form of generalized AI, and they're going to
Speaker 1: pull all the data they can about a person while
Speaker 1: they were alive. All your text, even the ones you
Speaker 1: wish you didn't send, all your recorded conversations, social media posts,
Speaker 1: biographical info. Uh Gary Oldman meme everything?
Speaker 3: Right? What is that from? I can remember?
Speaker 1: I think he's saying everyone though, right, Okay.
Speaker 3: I guess what I think of a fun Gary Oldman voices.
Speaker 3: I have crossed oceans of time to find you.
Speaker 1: The creatures of the night, well, the mesdemic. So this
Speaker 1: idea is you could get if you get enough information
Speaker 1: from a person, if you get enough instances of their
Speaker 1: living reaction to external stimuli, then you can The idea
Speaker 1: is you can emulate this person. You can model what
Speaker 1: they would have said or what they would have done
Speaker 1: in reaction to new stimuli. This is a deep water.
Speaker 1: It poses a wide range of questions and problems, and
Speaker 1: we'll examine those later this evening. What you need to
Speaker 1: know there's a lot happening in this field, and it's
Speaker 1: gonna take a long time for the living meat headworld
Speaker 1: to catch up.
Speaker 2: Yeah, just a concept of all your recorded conversations. When
Speaker 2: you think about what the government might be recording at
Speaker 2: all times when you use your phone, that's a little
Speaker 2: creepy because if they wanted to, maybe they could have
Speaker 2: all the data with all your recorded convos.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's a natural extension of deep fake. Right,
Speaker 1: that's what's happening. It's the future is now. And believe
Speaker 1: it is.
Speaker 3: That organic deep fake.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, boy Oka, believe it or not. Most of
Speaker 1: this these three to four honestly, as you said, in
Speaker 1: old kind of stinky versions of immortality, they're old beans.
Speaker 1: Scientists are researching the implications of these various genres of
Speaker 1: avoiding death, and billionaires and multi millionaires are pouring their
Speaker 1: fortune into the one thing they can yet not buy,
Speaker 1: a life that never ends. I mean, you get it,
Speaker 1: classic human You'll have to look far. It's a fool's
Speaker 1: errand for most of the history.
Speaker 3: It's also like the mcguffin of so many like villain
Speaker 3: arcs in you know, adventure, historical fiction, science fiction. You know,
Speaker 3: there's always some evil gazillionaire that like he has it
Speaker 3: all or they have it all except for the secret
Speaker 3: of eternal life, and that usually drives them mad because
Speaker 3: it is usually presented as being unattainable and or monkey's
Speaker 3: paw level, like you don't even know what to do
Speaker 3: with it. Once you get.
Speaker 1: It, it's yours, Indy, yours and mine. But then they
Speaker 1: cross the seal, right, and in Indiana Jones, well spoilers,
Speaker 1: the Holy Grail doesn't work out for them, and you know, you.
Speaker 3: Make sure some great practical effects though it is great.
Speaker 1: Right the pinach needles before caught. So in the past,
Speaker 1: obviously a lot of people tried and failed to stave
Speaker 1: off death. And you could look at the pursuit of
Speaker 1: immortality as this sort of vanity project, right, look at
Speaker 1: the Pyramids, look at the taj Mahal, the octatramph and
Speaker 1: so on. But now the reason we're doing this update
Speaker 1: this evening turns out that research may be paying off
Speaker 1: and further forces may conspire to keep that knowledge from
Speaker 1: the masses. We'll see whether or not they can do it.
Speaker 1: But as you are listening this evening, as strange as
Speaker 1: it sounds, the first immortal may be alive today, and we're.
Speaker 2: Gonna track that joker down right after these messages.
Speaker 3: No, I'm just shook.
Speaker 2: We'll be right back though.
Speaker 1: Here's where it gets crazy. That's correct, fellow conspiracy realist.
Speaker 1: The first immortal human being may have already been born,
Speaker 1: or at least someone who breaks the conventional scientific understanding
Speaker 1: right now. Science says, all things being equal, if you
Speaker 1: have all the money and you have all the genetic
Speaker 1: factors at your back, you can live to one hundred
Speaker 1: and twenty five to one hundred and fifty, at which
Speaker 1: point your your basic code will break down. But an
Speaker 1: actual immortal maybe alive now. And when we say actual immortal,
Speaker 1: we're not talking about these the three to four crappy
Speaker 1: conditions we explored earlier. We're talking about immortality that is
Speaker 1: Holy Grail level. See our references payoff. Oh yeah, that
Speaker 1: satisfies the following three conditions.
Speaker 2: Has a Clai isn't afraid to decapitate other immortals?
Speaker 3: Right? Is magic skilled in exactly arch nemesis is called
Speaker 3: the Krogan, the Kragan what was that guy's name. That
Speaker 3: guy's awesome, what a great villain in Highlander the first time.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they never worked together and the franchise took a
Speaker 1: weird turn when they went to space. But you know,
Speaker 1: there is no judgment in brainstorming the idea of being
Speaker 1: immortal in like the Paragon, the platonic ideal of it
Speaker 1: is that you will have regenerative ability, meaning that your
Speaker 1: cells will continue to divide and reproduce while also not
Speaker 1: encountering the inevitable physical genetic degradation of age.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you will, exactly, you will hit that heyflick limit
Speaker 2: right where after forty to sixty replications yourself are like, no,
Speaker 2: we're still going.
Speaker 3: Man. Well, if we're doing plugs. This Rolling Stones podcast
Speaker 3: that is about to wrap that I've been working on,
Speaker 3: we talk a lot about Keith Richards is insane drug
Speaker 3: abuse and you know, just absolutely the fact that he
Speaker 3: has cheated death so many times. And there's a scene
Speaker 3: where they like hired a doctor for this tour and
Speaker 3: one of our interview guys is talking to the doctor
Speaker 3: while they're on their private plane and like, Keith Richards
Speaker 3: is like hanging from the luggage bins, and the doctor
Speaker 3: leans into this guy, Gary Stromerg and says, you see,
Speaker 3: they're like simions. That's why they That's why they they're
Speaker 3: invincible like simions, because you know, I mean, Keith Richard's
Speaker 3: probably got his act together to a certain degree. But
Speaker 3: that guy's got to be pushing eight late eighties, you know,
Speaker 3: and he's not showing any signs of slowing down. And
Speaker 3: you know, smoked more than this humanly possible, did all
Speaker 3: the crazy drugs you can imagine, and he still seems
Speaker 3: pretty spry. So sometimes you do have to wonder, like
Speaker 3: there is a genetic lottery, and it does seem like
Speaker 3: we don't fully know what it is. Someone should study
Speaker 3: Keith Richards's genetic markers. That'd be an interesting bit of data.
Speaker 1: I do not know something like that is happening. Cousy
Speaker 1: Osborne sort of paved the way as well, because the
Speaker 1: question for any physician would be, how could this person,
Speaker 1: given a history of abuse survive even with all the
Speaker 1: financial uh oh yeah, access to checobs and financial agency.
Speaker 1: That's the question. So the first one is regenerative ability.
Speaker 1: The second issue is the problem of replacement. It's the
Speaker 1: old ship of thesis argument, right, which has now acquired
Speaker 1: a new terrifying relevancy. What's the ship of thesis? For
Speaker 1: those of us playing along at home?
Speaker 3: Comes up a lot for us, you know, it's just
Speaker 3: the idea of I think it's come up in multiple
Speaker 3: commons about AI and about technology, even like the idea
Speaker 3: of if something has every single component replaced, is it
Speaker 3: still the original thing? And you know, with technology that's
Speaker 3: maybe less relevant. But when it comes to a person
Speaker 3: where we ascribe some meaning to like the chaos of
Speaker 3: what our parts, you know that we are greater than
Speaker 3: the sum of our parts. If every single part of
Speaker 3: a person is replaced, is it still the same person?
Speaker 3: It is a fabulous lynchpin for sci fi type conversations.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a big deal because you could replace every
Speaker 2: component in a phone, right, and it's still that version
Speaker 2: of that phone.
Speaker 3: But what was a mass manufactured in the first place?
Speaker 2: Exactly? It doesn't work for individual biological things, at least
Speaker 2: as far as we know right now.
Speaker 1: Hardware software argument right. And so you know, you get
Speaker 1: a new computer, you put you put your Google.
Speaker 3: Right now.
Speaker 1: Now, it's the same brain, different body, huh, what gives?
Speaker 1: That's the third problem. The third problem for real immortality
Speaker 1: cognitive durability. There is no use long term in making
Speaker 1: a body or hardware that is constant if the mind
Speaker 1: can't keep up the pace, because then you end up
Speaker 1: with something where it's like, oh wow, this car has
Speaker 1: great maintenance. The guy was supposed to drive it asn't
Speaker 1: been back in you know, centuries. Still responds on the
Speaker 1: chat input though, nice.
Speaker 2: Hey, this is this is all to say, we definitely
Speaker 2: need robotic bodies, like we need to become android's asap.
Speaker 3: Guys. Let's go.
Speaker 1: As soon as androtically androidically possible.
Speaker 3: Yes, I mean I just started playing Cyberpunk now that
Speaker 3: it's sort of like a whole game, and and it
Speaker 3: does it is good, by the way, if anyone has
Speaker 3: been like hesitant because of all the bad press, but
Speaker 3: it does a really good job of showing you, you know, what,
Speaker 3: what would would a world be like where you could
Speaker 3: like supercharge any part of your body or your brain
Speaker 3: or your like optics. And it also shows how that
Speaker 3: creates a haves and have nots kind of scenario because
Speaker 3: some people can afford it, some people have to get
Speaker 3: it black market and sometimes that black market stuff does
Speaker 3: not work as advertised and it can kill you or
Speaker 3: turn you into like a psycho berserker or something. You know.
Speaker 1: Thank you for your interest in Heart by Disney. If
Speaker 1: you would like to continue your circulation, please subscribe to
Speaker 1: Heart by Disney Plus Premium Signature Collection Plan.
Speaker 3: And the rate has gone up this month. We're we're
Speaker 3: upping the We're upping the subscription.
Speaker 2: Get thirty more bpm if you sign up for our
Speaker 2: extreme package called it a boost.
Speaker 3: It's like a boost car. You know, it's all in
Speaker 3: app purchases. You know what's wild? Guys, Yeah, everybody joking around,
Speaker 3: but we're not that far off from this kind of stuff.
Speaker 3: I mean, we're you know, given the opportunity and the availability,
Speaker 3: you know, folks are going to want to I mean,
Speaker 3: people in power are going to want to do stuff
Speaker 3: like that.
Speaker 1: Guys, everybody right into our advertisers and tell them we've
Speaker 1: got to pitch. This would have been a great time
Speaker 1: for an Illumination Global and Limited ad but as as
Speaker 1: we know, they take the month of October off for conferences.
Speaker 1: So in recent years you don't have to look far
Speaker 1: to see examples of people working separately and together to
Speaker 1: solve these three big questions physical durability, replacement question, and
Speaker 1: then cognitive durability. If you tuned into our weekly Strange
Speaker 1: News segment, you may recall fellow conspiracy realist our brief
Speaker 1: discussion about a guy I love. His name's Brian Johnson.
Speaker 1: He was big and venmo He's in his mid forties,
Speaker 1: forty five, forty six. Now he's not a billionaire. He's
Speaker 1: a man of the people. Okay, he's just a multi millionaire.
Speaker 1: Ah yeah, And he went viral in Western News because
Speaker 1: of a particular aspect of his ongoing quest to first
Speaker 1: slough and then mitigate and then reverse his biological clock.
Speaker 3: Apparently he has the gum inflammation level of a seventeen
Speaker 3: year old. That stood out to me, I need to
Speaker 3: floss more.
Speaker 2: Piers Morgan said, he added the gum whatever of an
Speaker 2: eighteen year old, then a seventeen year old. And I
Speaker 2: got so confused because a notable.
Speaker 1: Expert, Piers Morgan a notable expert on inflammation.
Speaker 3: But he does have a charming accent. And the interview
Speaker 3: you're referencing Matt that we all watched, I thought it
Speaker 3: was a little dirty pool because he interviews this guy
Speaker 3: you know for a while and is very wow, this
Speaker 3: is awesome, tell me more. And then the guy leaves
Speaker 3: and he immediately has on this really mean older British
Speaker 3: scientist who just absolutely lamed back the guy. He said, well,
Speaker 3: he may have the gum inflammation of a seventeen year old,
Speaker 3: but he also appears to have the intellect of a
Speaker 3: sin seen year old. But really nasty stuff. But yeah,
Speaker 3: it begs the question, though, is like, hey, this guy's
Speaker 3: not trying to sell you this, but he also sort
Speaker 3: of is, because he's creating a regimen that he's like
Speaker 3: testing on himself. It's called blueprint, I think, and that
Speaker 3: ultimately would be a thing that you could you know,
Speaker 3: pay for, I guess in terms of like the secret
Speaker 3: sauce or whatever. But at the end of the day,
Speaker 3: he seems to truly believe in this and he seems
Speaker 3: to be very happy doing it. But it involves taking
Speaker 3: like hundreds of supplements every day, going to bed at
Speaker 3: eight o'clock.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 3: He eats a very specific strict vegan diet reduction coloric reduction,
Speaker 3: which is a thing we know. A lot of these
Speaker 3: mixed into his regiment are good things. But like, you know,
Speaker 3: the mean British scientist was like, the amount of supplements
Speaker 3: this guy's taking ninety percent of that stuff is bunk.
Speaker 3: You don't need that. If you just eat a good diet,
Speaker 3: you're gonna get most of these, you know, these nutrients.
Speaker 3: Like I was prescribed to vitamin D supplement because I
Speaker 3: guess I don't go outside enough. I gotta. I got
Speaker 3: an alarming message for my doctor, say, you are drastically
Speaker 3: low in vitamin D. So I take that like twice
Speaker 3: a week. But that's it. Everything else, if you're eating right,
Speaker 3: you're you're probably okay.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this this is the issue. Here's why this guy
Speaker 1: went viral. He is not the first to attempt these things.
Speaker 1: He is not the pioneer. Right, He's made no necessarily
Speaker 1: original breakthroughs. Right, He's combining existing technology, existing perspectives in
Speaker 1: the pursuit just like the Chinese Emperor of Old to
Speaker 1: not die.
Speaker 2: And and well he's only he's only his forties, right.
Speaker 1: And how dare you he doesn't identify as forty anymore?
Speaker 2: Oh, what I mean is his body is biologically it's
Speaker 2: been around the sun roughly forty five forty whatever, so
Speaker 2: so like it's really interesting, I think, to me personally
Speaker 2: to see somebody around that age range, because I'm not
Speaker 2: that far from him right in age and my revel
Speaker 2: my what do we call it?
Speaker 3: The Yeah you're like the mid sixties, yeah.
Speaker 2: Exactly, but I feel twenty eight. But it's like, it's
Speaker 2: really cool to see somebody that young with this much money, uh,
Speaker 2: seeming to really really try, like do everything he possibly
Speaker 2: can to to answer those riddles that we post.
Speaker 3: Right, he claims it's all based on data. He does
Speaker 3: have some. The way he puts it is interesting. He
Speaker 3: says like he had a period where he was very unhappy,
Speaker 3: he was depressed. He says he was overweight and he
Speaker 3: just wanted to eat garbage food because it made him
Speaker 3: feel good. But then he said he had to like
Speaker 3: fire nighttime him, or that's the way he put it,
Speaker 3: because like this version of him was like asking for
Speaker 3: all the wrong stuff, was acting totally counter to what
Speaker 3: it would take to be the best version, you know, physiologically,
Speaker 3: which you know, and you could argue that psychologically could
Speaker 3: follow after that of himself. And he just said, everything
Speaker 3: I do now is dictated by best practices around these
Speaker 3: types of intake of stuff.
Speaker 2: Sure, they're fun.
Speaker 3: There are a lot of people.
Speaker 1: There are a lot of people who would honestly like
Speaker 1: to live that way. To Like, if you've ever seen
Speaker 1: if you've ever seen pilots preparing to take to take
Speaker 1: a plane into the air, then they're not vibing, they're
Speaker 1: not freestyling. They have a list of procedures, right, checkthroughs, processing, right,
Speaker 1: that's how that's it. Do you want to live your
Speaker 1: life that way? Doing your rundown every you know, cyclical
Speaker 1: twenty four hours. Here's why he got in the news.
Speaker 1: He got in the news because of a tried generational
Speaker 1: blood swapping regimen. It's not all the blood. It's not
Speaker 1: all the blood, it's some of the blood, platelets, plasma.
Speaker 1: He's got a kid who when this one viral, is
Speaker 1: seventeen years old. He's got a dad, you know, luckily
Speaker 1: for him, luckily for anybody with surviving parents. His father
Speaker 1: is alive. His father, Richard, is seventy years old, and
Speaker 1: Brian's son, Talmadge, is seventeen. So the way it works
Speaker 1: is that Talmadge will give his dad some plasma, some platelets,
Speaker 1: all the good stuff, and then Brian will take that
Speaker 1: digest it through you know, his plumbing, and he will
Speaker 1: in turn give some of that not quite new but
Speaker 1: new to me blood to his.
Speaker 3: Father and pay it forward, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And two of the three report that they feel better.
Speaker 3: See that once again, though I'm not trying to poopoo
Speaker 3: anything but like feel better. It's a very subjective kind
Speaker 3: of concept. And there's a lot of placebo effect. We
Speaker 3: know how powerful that can be when you're doing a
Speaker 3: procedure that seems so like, oh, this is a techy
Speaker 3: as hell, you know, this seems like it should definitely
Speaker 3: do something if I'm going through all this this trouble.
Speaker 3: Another thing that I think made him go viral was
Speaker 3: that he took an alarming number of scans of his bowels.
Speaker 3: It was like, yeah, thousands, he said. He swallowed a
Speaker 3: camera the size of a baby carrot, he said, and
Speaker 3: he took an insane number of And he's backed up
Speaker 3: by like a crew of scientists who again in this
Speaker 3: Pierce Morgan interview, one of them came on after the
Speaker 3: mean British scientist, you know, poo poo the whole thing,
Speaker 3: and he's like, you're not wrong, mean British scientists. There
Speaker 3: are a lot of aspects of this that are being
Speaker 3: a misreported. Also, our subject isn't a scientist, and he
Speaker 3: is sort of a forward facing guy talking to the
Speaker 3: media about this, and he's getting some things wrong. I
Speaker 3: thought it was pretty bold. This guy said all that stuff,
Speaker 3: and we are going to start releasing data in peer
Speaker 3: reviewed journals, and only at that point can the conversation
Speaker 3: really start to include everybody. Right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and this idea, which we covered in a previous episode,
Speaker 1: modern vampires longer life through younger blood. It's grizzly, but again,
Speaker 1: it's not wholly new. For decades and honestly low key.
Speaker 1: For centuries, human beings have tried to understand how plasma
Speaker 1: transfers from young instances of a life form to older
Speaker 1: instances of a life form may mitigate or reverse biological aging.
Speaker 1: The fancy name for it is perobiosis. That's what happens
Speaker 1: in Mad Mac's Fury Road, right when one of the
Speaker 1: war boys wants to drive. He's already dying of cancer
Speaker 1: and he's like strap on this. They call him a
Speaker 1: blood bag, right, a blood boy. Yeah?
Speaker 3: So okay, can I just say we also do see
Speaker 3: in that film that the main guy, you know, I
Speaker 3: Morton Joe, who holds all the power, is actually not
Speaker 3: youthful at all. He's like an atrophying, you know, skeleton,
Speaker 3: kind of like decaying before everyone's very eyes. But he
Speaker 3: wears this like fake suit that makes him look like
Speaker 3: he's tough. So I think even in that world, you're
Speaker 3: supposed to kind of realize that this is all bogus.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but that's the thing, there may be some sand
Speaker 1: to it. Harvard recently conducted a study with mice, and
Speaker 1: they used a specific form of parabiosis called heterochronic parabiosis,
Speaker 1: which means they they hooked up not quite human centipede style,
Speaker 1: they hooked up in old mouse and a young mouse.
Speaker 1: They did this several times, and there's you know, no
Speaker 1: God to stop them. They kept these circulatory systems plugged
Speaker 1: up together, running concurrently for three months, and what they
Speaker 1: found was that the old mia, by virtue of having
Speaker 1: this new addition to their circulatory system, they lived an
Speaker 1: average of six percent to nine percent longer than the
Speaker 1: old mice who did not undergo this parrobiosis and worth it.
Speaker 3: Last nine man, that's that's the good percent. That's what
Speaker 3: you want.
Speaker 1: Text to Henry Kissinger.
Speaker 3: You're saying, so they essentially it's like you're doing a transfusion,
Speaker 3: except or connected to a real living creature, and then
Speaker 3: something else is connected to that. So your blood is
Speaker 3: flowing from one to the other to the other and
Speaker 3: then back around and I like a loop. That's that's
Speaker 3: oh wow, that's disturbing but fascinating.
Speaker 1: I don't think it works for anybody who's about to
Speaker 1: write the email.
Speaker 3: I don't.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think you can just like wire a
Speaker 1: utility belt of young mice around you and snake them
Speaker 1: into your circulatory system.
Speaker 3: I think, yeah, the system probably has something to do
Speaker 3: with it. Like we probably could do that with people,
Speaker 3: because it's we can't our system.
Speaker 1: We can do it well, not ethically.
Speaker 2: I'm saying a horrible vision.
Speaker 3: Oh dude, it's terrifying, man. But I guess what I'm
Speaker 3: getting at though, is like maybe when you shrink it
Speaker 3: down it doesn't matter. But like it seems like our
Speaker 3: the length the scope of our circulatory systems would make
Speaker 3: that more difficult and the pressure would be more of
Speaker 3: a concern, like the blood pressure. It seems like that
Speaker 3: a lot could go wrong in a human trial or
Speaker 3: something like this.
Speaker 1: Well, it's also inconvenient. You know, I like to think
Speaker 1: of us as running and gunning, sticking and moving. We
Speaker 1: don't have time.
Speaker 3: Sticking and poking. Yeah, we're yeah, we don't.
Speaker 1: Have time to carry a jan sport equivalent of a
Speaker 1: human being on our back. You know, Oh, Matt's in
Speaker 1: all right, Matt.
Speaker 2: You're thinking about it. He's thinking about it.
Speaker 1: So we want to give credit whords to Harvard Medical
Speaker 1: School Professor of medicine, Vadam lettyshev talks in depth about
Speaker 1: how they rate success in this experiment and others like it.
Speaker 1: How do you rate parabiosis? How do you know if
Speaker 1: that old mouse really is getting its second wind? And
Speaker 1: he goes into depth about some of the variables, talks
Speaker 1: a great deal about what they call the epigenetic clock.
Speaker 1: We're bringing this up because it's important to note there
Speaker 1: is a metric here, a metric in play in actual science,
Speaker 1: and our buddy Brian, his program never wholly rested on parabiosis.
Speaker 1: That is one part. It's like the most clickbaiting part
Speaker 1: of this strict regimen of exercise and supplements that he's
Speaker 1: been doing for a while, which you mentioned earlier, Nol.
Speaker 1: And at this point the medical community at large does
Speaker 1: not recognize this. It does not support any procedure referred
Speaker 1: to as anti aging blood transfusion exactly.
Speaker 2: Well, and there are other things that he does too
Speaker 2: that are not recognized, ben like the some certain infrared
Speaker 2: light treatments that he goes through, and a bunch of
Speaker 2: other things that are they sound really great, and then
Speaker 2: you can go you can find websites all over the
Speaker 2: internet that say, hey, this procedure is gonna stop this X,
Speaker 2: Y and Z and your biological makeup and all this stuff,
Speaker 2: but there's absolutely no what confirmed or agreed upon that's
Speaker 2: the thing, actual outcome for these treatments. It's possible that
Speaker 2: there's something there that we just don't understand yet because
Speaker 2: this one research study appears to show that there's a
Speaker 2: slight increase in whatever, but.
Speaker 3: Well it doesn't. It also have to do it the
Speaker 3: size of a trial. Like That's why this Brian Johnson
Speaker 3: stuff is a little dubious because it's just him and
Speaker 3: like you know, again the Keith Richards argument, like an
Speaker 3: individual has a lot of variables as to what make
Speaker 3: you could smoke ten packs a day and shoot up
Speaker 3: junk between your toes and then still somehow managed to live,
Speaker 3: you know, out into the ripe old age of like
Speaker 3: ninety something. So we know some individuals do have like
Speaker 3: super Gen's case in point, Henrietta Lacks. I mean, that
Speaker 3: was a discovery, but like everyone doesn't have that, you know.
Speaker 1: And also it's interesting they mentioned that because recently, earlier
Speaker 1: this month, as we record, in October of twenty twenty three,
Speaker 1: a twenty three year old guy named Andrew Boyd went
Speaker 1: public with the seventy five days he had spent following
Speaker 1: Brian Johnson's Blueprint diet. And at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: because you know, let's put the boffins and the nerds
Speaker 1: outside while we cool people talk about this. At the
Speaker 1: end of the day, this guy said that he had
Speaker 1: great results. He lost thirty pounds. He sure he believed that.
Speaker 1: He's like, now, my biological age is nineteen point two.
Speaker 3: That's the part that's like, all woo woo oh, I
Speaker 3: feel I feel different. Sure, yeah, Look, I've been doing
Speaker 3: my very best to and you know, I use an app.
Speaker 3: It's like a fitness tracker and calorie and take app.
Speaker 3: And I think I'm probably okay at my weight and
Speaker 3: age to do about twenty five hundred calories a day
Speaker 3: and I'm trying to do two thousand calories a day,
Speaker 3: and a big part of his whole regime is a
Speaker 3: caloric deficit. And anybody that even attempts to do this
Speaker 3: is gonna see some benefit. And if you exercise every day,
Speaker 3: even only for fifteen minutes, you're gonna see some benefit
Speaker 3: from that too. I think the issue with this guy
Speaker 3: is he's just going so hard in the paint and
Speaker 3: like claiming that it's just he's found the fountain of youth.
Speaker 3: But really the stuff that's working is the basic stuff
Speaker 3: that anyone can afford or do. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And here's the thing. This technology is on the way.
Speaker 1: How will it scale, how will it roll out? What
Speaker 1: will the measurable benefits be?
Speaker 3: Unknown?
Speaker 1: But modern vamporism is going to be a thing. The
Speaker 1: stakes are simply too high. Haha, No, apologies, it's yeah.
Speaker 1: It appears that within your lifetime, folks, as you listen tonight,
Speaker 1: vampires are going to be real. And we didn't have
Speaker 1: that on the Bingo car. But you know, yolo or
Speaker 1: do yolo? Do you only live once? That takes us
Speaker 1: to the other strange field of research. Organ transplants. Ah.
Speaker 4: I thought you're gonna say reincarnation and yay, But like
Speaker 4: the Bible is full of stories that are like pre vampire,
Speaker 4: Like Methuselah is kind of almost like a pre vampire story.
Speaker 3: And the fact that like vampire stories have existed in
Speaker 3: culture and storytelling for so long shows that it's it's
Speaker 3: a point of fascination and that it's something that people
Speaker 3: have been thinking about for a really long time. And
Speaker 3: the idea of blood of the virgin, all of that
Speaker 3: kind of stuff, it doesn't stop. One of the videos
Speaker 3: that I think, I say, you guys, was talking about
Speaker 3: some history of this kind of thing, and like, I
Speaker 3: think Cleopatra bathed in boiled donkey's milk. That sounds gross,
Speaker 3: but somebody you know, said that it was a good idea,
Speaker 3: and so she was like, sure, yolo, let's do it.
Speaker 2: Well, it would have been fresh, but it's really tough
Speaker 2: to get that much donkey milk. So I think the.
Speaker 1: Little Fellows donkey milk, Yeah you want some? Okay, Yeah,
Speaker 1: all right, let's we'll finish the show.
Speaker 3: Let's take it a step further.
Speaker 1: Ground up donkey teeth, oh, I mean, because you can
Speaker 1: grind him up at home. I can get you a guy,
Speaker 1: but it's going to be more expensive if they grind
Speaker 1: it for you.
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, I've got a more pestle. I'm good. Okay, cool, cool,
Speaker 3: I've got a ninja.
Speaker 1: You know we're keeping this all in so Oregon. Transplants
Speaker 1: are necessary, right, especially if you need one to live,
Speaker 1: but they're also tremendously controversial. Check out our earlier episodes
Speaker 1: on things like the red Market. It has been a
Speaker 1: bloody uncertain endeavor for a long long time. This may
Speaker 1: not be the case for much longer. In the near future. You, yes, you,
Speaker 1: fellow conspiracy realist, may be able to replace any number
Speaker 1: of physical components so long as you can pay that
Speaker 1: Butcher's bill. And I don't just mean pay in terms
Speaker 1: of finance, I mean so long as you can square
Speaker 1: yourself ethically with what might be going down. It's like,
Speaker 1: you know, the official waiting list for organ transplants terrible,
Speaker 1: incredibly long. Every single year in the US alone, a
Speaker 1: minimum of seventeen people die on the list. They're not
Speaker 1: bad people, you know what I mean. They didn't do
Speaker 1: evil stuff. They probably lived a pretty healthy life. But
Speaker 1: they will die in line for that heart that kidney,
Speaker 1: that pancreas you name it. And this lack of supply,
Speaker 1: this growing demand creates this underground organ trade network, a
Speaker 1: pay to play system. You can skip the line, just
Speaker 1: like if you pay extra at Disney World. You get
Speaker 1: a new lease on life, as long as you don't
Speaker 1: ask stupid questions, you know what I mean? Like is
Speaker 1: this a weaker heart? Never ask?
Speaker 3: Oh jeez yeah, and you never know, like in terms
Speaker 3: of all the qualifications that it takes to even get
Speaker 3: on that list, like you can't have been a smoker,
Speaker 3: you can't have had this, this, that and the other.
Speaker 3: But maybe some of the people with all that money
Speaker 3: and pull smoked fifty kohimas a day and they still
Speaker 3: get that lung transplant, you know, or that's it's a cigar.
Speaker 1: It's a cigar. Yeah, So this I got you. And
Speaker 1: that's a way to illustrate it.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 1: So the issue is very real. This may be changing
Speaker 1: because quite recently some scientists over at Harvard made a
Speaker 1: stunning announcement they had transplanted a kidney from a pig
Speaker 1: into a monkey, and despite the vast genetic differences, that
Speaker 1: monkey lived for two years. After that, if you think
Speaker 1: about it in the world of folklore myth. They made
Speaker 1: a chimera. And sure that sounds a little pretentious. We
Speaker 1: get it, we're nerds. But uh, if you think that's pretentious,
Speaker 1: just wait for the official term of this science, which
Speaker 1: is even weirder.
Speaker 2: The name is zeno transplantation, zeno morph zeno transplantation.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know what sort of math rock album is
Speaker 1: that from?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Hr Giger did their? Did their like pitch Deck?
Speaker 3: So I have a quick question though, Ben, you said
Speaker 3: two years. You know, obviously animals have a shorter lifespan
Speaker 3: in general, but I think apes have a similar lifespan
Speaker 3: to humans. So what broke down after two years? Two
Speaker 3: years seems like a minor win, but not a major win.
Speaker 1: Oh, it's very much a major win. Okay, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: And the only reason it worked, yeah, it's not. It's like,
Speaker 1: you know, when the Bright Brothers flew the first mechanically
Speaker 1: powered aircraft, they didn't get to Tokyo and one go,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. So this is like a
Speaker 1: first flight, a proof of concept. And that monkey, by
Speaker 1: the way, the only reason it lived for as long
Speaker 1: as it did is because this was not an ordinary pig.
Speaker 1: This pig was grown specifically to be sacrificed, and a
Speaker 1: company named e Genesis leveraged the incredibly dangerous and fascinating
Speaker 1: technology Crisper. E Genesis altered this pig's genome at least
Speaker 1: sixty nine times, and again to our earlier our earlier
Speaker 1: comparison about you know, a bank of light switches and
Speaker 1: you don't know what else they're affecting in the house,
Speaker 1: We don't know. Two years is actually really good. It's
Speaker 1: really impressive, especially when you consider that a little bit
Speaker 1: before this, two separate research institutions took brain dead humans
Speaker 1: and they put genetically modified pig kidneys into those bodies
Speaker 1: just you know, beat me here, Paul, just to around
Speaker 1: and find out right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, because they just wanted to see if the
Speaker 2: kidney would take right, That was the whole point.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, exactly, for the love of the game.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So but there's there's other stuff going on too that's
Speaker 2: been highlighted a couple of places, And I just want
Speaker 2: to shout this person out because I think there's something here.
Speaker 3: You guys.
Speaker 2: It's doctor Doris Taylor, and she works at Regenerative Medicine Research.
Speaker 2: That's the name of it. It's in I think Houston,
Speaker 2: Texas where she's working. But they're creating lab grown human organs.
Speaker 2: So what they do Ben is they'll take a pig
Speaker 2: heart and remove all the blood all of the cells
Speaker 2: that make that a pig heart, and what you end
Speaker 2: up having is this translucently white looking thing that is
Speaker 2: a heart. Then and you will put it in a
Speaker 2: bath basically of human cells, like cultured human cells. Then
Speaker 2: those human cells developed, they develop around the heart. They're
Speaker 2: stem cells, right, so they create they match their environment,
Speaker 2: or they're very good at that.
Speaker 1: I'm so glad you're mentioning this.
Speaker 2: Yes, wait that that to me is incredible because it
Speaker 2: matches up with what we're talking about here. If we
Speaker 2: can really hone this science, we could potentially just create
Speaker 2: Ben's new heart if we wanted to, with a couple
Speaker 2: of Ben's cultures, right, if we if we had a
Speaker 2: a pig heart or something that could go along with it,
Speaker 2: or Matt's new liver, like that would be amazing.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I think I think that's that's at least one of
Speaker 2: the stepping stones toward what we're what we're trying to
Speaker 2: get towards.
Speaker 3: Just so, yes, for sure, but also speaking about like
Speaker 3: the story telling aspect of this and vampirism, there's also
Speaker 3: Frankenstein and Frankenstein's monster and the idea of going against
Speaker 3: God and how inevitably nothing but bad things will come
Speaker 3: of that. And I'm not saying I believe that, but
Speaker 3: I think there are those that do, and we know
Speaker 3: that unchecked this kind of stuff, especially when it's all
Speaker 3: in the service of of money, it can be very scary.
Speaker 3: It can really go into dangerous territories.
Speaker 1: I'm glad you mentioned checks and balances. To be absolutely clear,
Speaker 1: The only real check, the only real balance on this
Speaker 1: is going to be the.
Speaker 2: The one the doctor takes home.
Speaker 1: Sorry, well, the pay to play system of late stage capitalism, right,
Speaker 1: and a distant second check. The only other real one
Speaker 1: is human kinds level of self regard for what it
Speaker 1: sees as ethics, ethics. If those if those two things
Speaker 1: did not exist, then you could have your pig heart
Speaker 1: your pig liver, right now, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: But but of course, uh, there is a legacy there.
Speaker 1: There are several legacy systems in play which are kind
Speaker 1: of I don't want to say, stymying the research, but
Speaker 1: they're making it. You know, they're making what could have
Speaker 1: been a two hour movie, a summer long TV show.
Speaker 3: But but no, I say lagging because these legacy you know,
Speaker 3: checks and balances. As we always say, the technology always
Speaker 3: far exceeds some of these legacy you know, oversights that
Speaker 3: are in place. So and when you're a company that
Speaker 3: has the pull, you know, whether it be with lobbies
Speaker 3: or whatever it might be, there are ways around this stuff.
Speaker 3: We know that that happens.
Speaker 1: Also, the people in power in this iteration of the
Speaker 1: of human civilization tend to be pretty old, so they
Speaker 1: are therefore incentivized, you.
Speaker 3: Know what I mean.
Speaker 1: Like Mitch McConnell's probably saying, hmm, once I get that
Speaker 1: new ticker, it's gonna be a whole new Mitch baby,
Speaker 1: So the uh.
Speaker 3: Not be funny if Mitch just showed up one day
Speaker 3: was at the fonds, just like just totally like leather jacket.
Speaker 1: It's for some reason, Yeah, humanity is not there yet.
Speaker 1: There is a world in which you could have a
Speaker 1: pig grown specifically bespoke donor for you, and all you
Speaker 1: have to do to get these custom made organs is
Speaker 1: to somehow be able to pay for it.
Speaker 3: Ben It also reminds me of like something that I
Speaker 3: guess hasn't been reported as much about lately because maybe
Speaker 3: it's old hat, but like those rats or mice that
Speaker 3: they could grow a human ear. One like stuff like that,
Speaker 3: where it's very single use, single purpose, you know, and
Speaker 3: like these types of pigs you're talking about, you'd obviously
Speaker 3: have to you know, contribute some of your genetic material
Speaker 3: and then here's the guy that's going to grow the
Speaker 3: thing that's going to be just for you.
Speaker 1: The primary barrier to this research is not ethics. The
Speaker 1: primary barrier is late stage capitalism. Money is a religion
Speaker 1: and it's not the root of all evil, but you know,
Speaker 1: it's unnecessarily complicating progress, is what I'm thinking. I mean,
Speaker 1: there's this idea, right that you could, all things being equal,
Speaker 1: if this research continues, one could have a new organ
Speaker 1: as like a pay to play, real and really expensive option.
Speaker 1: You know, imagine a world in which anyone with enough
Speaker 1: financial liquidity can start treating their body like a vehicle.
Speaker 1: I'm keeping the car analogy. You know, instead of a
Speaker 1: harrowing life or death, get right with God moment when
Speaker 1: you need a new liver, it becomes something like changing
Speaker 1: your oil. Nah, I gotta go replace the break pads
Speaker 1: with my nephrologist. I need a new kidney or something.
Speaker 3: But we also know plenty of people that can maybe
Speaker 3: afford to change the oil in their car, but then
Speaker 3: if the breaks go bad, they're like screwed. I can't
Speaker 3: afford a break job, or I can't afford a new
Speaker 3: transmission or whatever it might be. And that cyberpunk game
Speaker 3: I was talking about earlier, there's a thing in it
Speaker 3: where like there are these, you know, medical vehicles that
Speaker 3: swoop in anytime someone gets hurt, but only if they
Speaker 3: are rich enough to be in the system to be
Speaker 3: taken care of. Like there's a scene, there's actually a
Speaker 3: really good anime cyberpunk thing where this kid and his
Speaker 3: mom get into a bad car accident and the med
Speaker 3: team comes and they scan them like nope, he doesn't
Speaker 3: have the bright plan, and they just leave them to die.
Speaker 3: You know. I mean to your point about capitalism, that
Speaker 3: is what that yields is the haves and have nots,
Speaker 3: the tiered service of it all. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And there's the issue here as well. None of
Speaker 1: these solutions fix the third problem, durable cognition.
Speaker 3: That is the key.
Speaker 1: Over time, without intervention, the human brain will inevitably degrade
Speaker 1: because it is it's just more meat, it's organic. The
Speaker 1: mind comes to dementia, Alzheimer's. All the cool hits, all
Speaker 1: the slow jazz at, everything that makes you the you
Speaker 1: is lost. And that ship of thesis might behave like
Speaker 1: a brand new body. But what's the use if there's
Speaker 1: no one at the wheel. How do we solve this
Speaker 1: third problem? We'll tell you after a word from our sponsors. Okay,
Speaker 1: side note, we promised it in the beginning, and we
Speaker 1: know we're going long here. Our original off air conversation
Speaker 1: about organ transplants that inspired us to pursue this update.
Speaker 1: We were surprised to discover multiple cases of something spooky.
Speaker 1: It turns out there's non zero amount of people who
Speaker 1: receive organ transplants and then become certain they have additionally
Speaker 1: received a piece of the donor's personality, preferences, phobias, habits,
Speaker 1: software of the soul.
Speaker 3: That's the playing god part. That's the part where it
Speaker 3: all goes. You know you can't, I mean, hell man,
Speaker 3: it happens with computers. You do an update and all
Speaker 3: of a sudden, some of your stuff doesn't work because
Speaker 3: it hasn't been updated to match the update for the
Speaker 3: operating system. I mean, I think it's a relatively reasonable analog.
Speaker 3: But with humans, it's like we don't really know. They
Speaker 3: don't even know someone has Alzheimer's unequivocally until they do
Speaker 3: an autopsy on the brain after that.
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, good point. This idea that human beings could
Speaker 1: be to some degree emulating the plenarian the flatworm. This
Speaker 1: leads us to something called cellular memory theory, the idea
Speaker 1: that quote, behaviors and emotions acquired by the recipient from
Speaker 1: the original donor are due to combinatorial memories stored in
Speaker 1: the neurons of the organ donated. Very Stephen King sounding, right, dude,
Speaker 1: So okay, this is one example. It's pretty crusive. This
Speaker 1: is what we were talking about off air. Wanted to
Speaker 1: share it with you fellow listeners. Back in nineteen ninety six,
Speaker 1: this guy in Vidalia, Georgia, his name Sonny Graham. He
Speaker 1: gets a heart transplant, amazing saves his life. He gets
Speaker 1: this heart from a guy he's never met named Terry Cottle.
Speaker 1: Terry Cottle commits suicide when he's only thirty three years old,
Speaker 1: which for a lot of us in our twenties we
Speaker 1: get that saying only thirty three sounds like a well
Speaker 1: lived life.
Speaker 3: It is not.
Speaker 1: It's a very short life. He took his life with
Speaker 1: a firearm. Sonny Graham gets the heart. Sonny Graham is
Speaker 1: over the moon. Right, He's alive. He didn't expect to be,
Speaker 1: and so he does what I think we could agree
Speaker 1: is the right thing. He begins a correspondence with Coddle's family.
Speaker 1: You know, Coddle was a father, a husband, et cetera.
Speaker 1: He had his own life. So this guy, Sonny is
Speaker 1: writing to the Caddle family and in January of nineteen
Speaker 1: ninety seven, he meets the widow of the guy who
Speaker 1: saved his life. She's a lady named Cheryl Cottle. She's
Speaker 1: twenty eight years old at the time. She lives in Charleston,
Speaker 1: and they strike up a romance.
Speaker 3: Yeah, trauma bonding. I mean, that's perhaps okay, who am
Speaker 3: I to? Who am I to? Saying? You know, but
Speaker 3: it's interesting. Where the story goes is beyond fascinating. But
Speaker 3: it also there are other aspects of it that could
Speaker 3: make it not what the spooky thing is. But the
Speaker 3: spooky thing is it feels front center. I have to say, yeah.
Speaker 1: He marries Caddle's widow, and then several years later, on
Speaker 1: April first, two thousand and eight, Sonny Graham takes his
Speaker 1: own life life with a firearm.
Speaker 3: And it's my understanding that people that knew him said
Speaker 3: he never exhibited any signs of depression or mental illness.
Speaker 1: None whatsoever. Apparently, but this sounds like a macp campfire story.
Speaker 2: And it happened on April Fool's Day.
Speaker 1: And it happened on a fool's day.
Speaker 3: Wait, surely we know that this is true.
Speaker 1: Though, I mean this is true that is when, that
Speaker 1: is when he took his own life and therefore arguably
Speaker 1: the life of or some remnant of the life of
Speaker 1: Terry Cottle. The thing is that there it sounds spooky.
Speaker 1: It's a MACP campfire story. Ha haa, we're all scared
Speaker 1: October whatever. But several studies indicate there may be some
Speaker 1: sort of let's call it, persistence of the mind within
Speaker 1: the donated organs.
Speaker 3: But are we talking about the soul? Are we talking
Speaker 3: about remnants of the soul in a piece of meat
Speaker 3: that is then reconstituted and connected to somebody else's system
Speaker 3: like some people say my heart, I love you with
Speaker 3: all my heart. Like, I think that's irrelevant. They could
Speaker 3: just likely be in your liver. But the heart, man,
Speaker 3: that's the central clock of your entire existence. You know.
Speaker 1: There's a journal called Quality of Life Research, and in
Speaker 1: this you can read a study where researchers interviewed forty
Speaker 1: seven different patients, each of whom received a heart transplant
Speaker 1: over a window of two years in Vienna. They found
Speaker 1: that seventy nine percent of the folks they interviewed didn't
Speaker 1: feel their personality had changed. Fifteen percent felt that they
Speaker 1: had some sort of change, and they just thought it
Speaker 1: was because it was a milestone. They almost died, right
Speaker 1: of course, like someone with a near death experience, you're
Speaker 1: going to be different. Six percent, though, did confirm they
Speaker 1: had a drastic change in their personality, and they said,
Speaker 1: do entirely to this piece of a different person existing
Speaker 1: inside them. I mean, caveat emptor let the buyer beware.
Speaker 1: You might get more than a new hunk of meat.
Speaker 1: You know, if some of these scientists are correct, you
Speaker 1: might be carrying, like a plenarian, a tiny bit of
Speaker 1: someone else's source code with you, which brings us to
Speaker 1: of course we're target source code, digital immortality. This is
Speaker 1: the one that's gonna happen. This is the one that's
Speaker 1: going to like, this is the one that's gonna happen
Speaker 1: and be stuff they don't want you to know until
Speaker 1: a huge watershed moment.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there was actually a Duncan Jones film called source Code,
Speaker 3: David Bowie's son who he directed the Warcraft movie but
Speaker 3: that's not his moon he did with Sam Brockwell, and
Speaker 3: then source Code with Jake Gillenhall, and it's all about
Speaker 3: this kind of stuff. But also there's an episode of
Speaker 3: Black Mirror where a woman tragically loses her husband in
Speaker 3: an accident. And then there's this thing where you can
Speaker 3: get this like stand in surrogate version that you have
Speaker 3: to grow in the bathtub, and then you upload all
Speaker 3: of their Facebook and social media and it becomes a
Speaker 3: passable version of the person. But of course the twist,
Speaker 3: not really the twist, but is that it's not the person,
Speaker 3: it's it's a facsimile of the person.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, a good emulation.
Speaker 3: What is it?
Speaker 1: Symmacularum similacrum, similacrum. Yes, yes, yes, I still have a
Speaker 1: rudimentary grasp on English at best, digital immortality. It's the
Speaker 1: idea that you can It's like music, Okay, so what
Speaker 1: is a song? Is a song the guitar upon which
Speaker 1: the song is played? Or is the song the pattern
Speaker 1: the series of notes? You know. The idea of digital
Speaker 1: immortality hinges upon the concept of people, the you that
Speaker 1: you mean when you say you, existing as patterns, as
Speaker 1: software songs, the idea being that if we gather enough
Speaker 1: information about a single instance of an individual and funnel
Speaker 1: that into some large language, near generalized AI model, that
Speaker 1: the resulting code can respond and react to stimuli in
Speaker 1: a manner increasingly close to what the responses would have
Speaker 1: been if that person was still alive. It's heavy stuff.
Speaker 1: It's no longer impossible. It is being happening right now,
Speaker 1: and it's really scary. It's traumatic. I imagine, like you know,
Speaker 1: everybody's lost somebody. Think about it. If you're able to
Speaker 1: speak with some emulation of your lost spouse, child, parent,
Speaker 1: close friend, and then you realize at some point in
Speaker 1: that Turing test that you are just encountering a remix
Speaker 1: of things they said. I mean, honestly, it's like you know,
Speaker 1: I mean, would it make you feel more or less
Speaker 1: lonely is the.
Speaker 3: More more I think. I think it's you know, I
Speaker 3: my mother passed a year or so ago, a little more,
Speaker 3: and I'm very reticent to listen to old voicemails from her.
Speaker 3: It's like it really hits you in a place. I
Speaker 3: don't know that I would want this, especially No, maybe
Speaker 3: like for somebody who isn't, as you know, embedded in
Speaker 3: this kind of stuff as we are, maybe they would,
Speaker 3: But to me, it just seems dangerous, especially if it
Speaker 3: could talk back, you know. I just you could get
Speaker 3: addicted to that. And that's what the it's called be
Speaker 3: right back. The Black Mirror episode starring domhol Gleeson is about.
Speaker 3: It is literally what we're talking about here.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know. I can imagine a good version
Speaker 2: of it, like imagining just face timing with somebody you
Speaker 2: care about that you've lost, but getting to feel that, like,
Speaker 2: you know, just share your day with somebody that you
Speaker 2: really care about and you care about them caring about you,
Speaker 2: even if they're not there anymore. I think that could
Speaker 2: be a positive thing. But I do think you're right,
Speaker 2: it would be addicting and it wouldn't help you. It
Speaker 2: wouldn't beneficial. To you with relationships.
Speaker 1: But what if it's ad supported. I was holding that,
Speaker 1: you know what, that's a different I love you too.
Speaker 1: I wish I could have I wish I could have
Speaker 1: told you this while I was in the hospital. Coding
Speaker 1: out has a sale right now, so I could have
Speaker 1: played Royal Match together. You know that would but play
Speaker 1: Royal Match with your deceased loved ones.
Speaker 2: All right?
Speaker 1: I tricked you guys a little bit. That is kind
Speaker 1: of an evil thing. It is possible because we are
Speaker 1: in the early days this field of research, this idea.
Speaker 1: What's most interesting about it is that if it goes well,
Speaker 1: then this mind would not experience the same organic degradation
Speaker 1: of a meatball mind. If it does experience a metaphysical
Speaker 1: version of a malfunction, you can just reboot it like
Speaker 1: a jellyfish. Start the soul over at the version of
Speaker 1: last Saved game. A digital answer yes to the turretopsis.
Speaker 1: And this research has been galvanized by breakthroughs in llms,
Speaker 1: large language modeling aka street name Chat GPT, rise of
Speaker 1: deep fakes, increasingly generalized AI models. Something like this is
Speaker 1: going to happen. We are not too far out from
Speaker 1: what I would I would like I would propose we
Speaker 1: call it the emulated human.
Speaker 3: The Eh, Well, dude, you can use chat GPT to
Speaker 3: have a conversation with William Shakespeare. What's to prevent you
Speaker 3: from using chat GPT to have a conversation with your
Speaker 3: deceased grandmother.
Speaker 1: Especially considering how much more data there is about people
Speaker 1: who died recently.
Speaker 3: That's true, and obviously there's way more data about William
Speaker 3: Shakespeare and people writing about him and every number of things.
Speaker 3: But if you there could be a bespoke service where
Speaker 3: you upload all this stuff to the cloud and then
Speaker 3: it gives you this like version that we're there. You're right, Ben,
Speaker 3: we're talking, We're there.
Speaker 1: Well, well, let's talk about the emulated human. You know,
Speaker 1: I'm very into this idea. It might be my new
Speaker 1: beat later, but something that would appear to have the opinions,
Speaker 1: the imaginations, the fears, the aspirations of that person you knew.
Speaker 1: Humanity is not prepared for this. What happens when an
Speaker 1: emulated human gets close enough in terms of fidelity to
Speaker 1: genuinely passituring test and function as an undead version of
Speaker 1: that person you loved? Are they going to be able
Speaker 1: to represent themselves in court, Can they vote? Can they
Speaker 1: make journey? You know first question Uncle Sam has? Are
Speaker 1: they going to pay taxes? You know? The other question?
Speaker 1: What would it be able to demand its own destruction?
Speaker 3: Right? Like all of these I would I would think
Speaker 3: all of these things would be laid out in advance.
Speaker 3: It's like intellectual property at this point, it's not you
Speaker 3: know what I mean, Like there's different rules about stuff
Speaker 3: like this, but I don't think that those rules exist yet.
Speaker 3: I don't think there's any document that has a clause
Speaker 3: that would address any of this stuff.
Speaker 2: Shack out Westworld season. There's really interesting like thoughts about
Speaker 2: this in each season, like IP and individuality and all
Speaker 2: of these things. It's really really good.
Speaker 1: And so we know we're running along apologies mission control.
Speaker 1: We have to ask what happens when an emulated human
Speaker 1: mind decides it would like a body?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 1: Because again, the technology is there, it just hasn't been
Speaker 1: combined into the correct applicable gestalt, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: Like you can three D print, right, lap room meat
Speaker 1: is on the way, it's just too expensive.
Speaker 3: Right now, you just hit command Q. You just quit.
Speaker 3: I don't want to hear this anymore. There's nothing making
Speaker 3: you have to answer their demands. They're a puppet show
Speaker 3: for you, right, Like I'm not meaning to be callous.
Speaker 3: I just mean at a certain point, it's like if
Speaker 3: all of this stuff, all things being equal, like this
Speaker 3: is a presentation for your benefit that you're paying for.
Speaker 3: It is a dance that you are enjoying slash benefiting from.
Speaker 3: We are not at this point ascribing any agency to
Speaker 3: these representations. And that's a whole other conversation, you.
Speaker 1: Know, right, That's what I'm saying of agency, right.
Speaker 3: But when can they get it? Who gives them that?
Speaker 1: The lavation innovation is Ussain Bolt legislation is a three
Speaker 1: year old learning to walk while they're carrying a backpack
Speaker 1: of bricks, You know what I mean? The race is
Speaker 1: pretty predictable. We do want to make a moment before
Speaker 1: we close to talk about other life extension products, procedures, tactics,
Speaker 1: and snake oil, because there is a panopoly of these.
Speaker 1: Many of them are roundly dismissed as little more than
Speaker 1: the placebo effect, or at the more sinister side of
Speaker 1: the spectrum, they can be scams and cons taking advantage
Speaker 1: of people laboring under the weight of fear. I mean,
Speaker 1: things like med beds, Matt you earlier mentioned light treatments.
Speaker 1: A lot of these things do provide a benefit, or
Speaker 1: at the very least they don't actually harm people. Sure,
Speaker 1: they fall apart when they tend to make extravagant claims.
Speaker 3: Well, even the stuff Brian Johnson's talking about just like
Speaker 3: you know, extreme adherence to these regimes and like you know,
Speaker 3: supplements and such. None of the stuff that he's talking
Speaker 3: about is bad for you. If you did it, you
Speaker 3: probably would benefit. But the idea of like ascribing some
Speaker 3: sort of like this is the new way to eternal
Speaker 3: life is in and of itself kind of a little problematic.
Speaker 2: Well, you shared a video with us earlier today.
Speaker 3: It's by.
Speaker 2: Economy, Yeah, the Economy, and it's this reporter Marin Hunsberger
Speaker 2: who just kind of exploring this concept, right, and she
Speaker 2: ends up going to this place called the rad Festival
Speaker 2: that I had never heard of. It's in Las Vegas, Nevada,
Speaker 2: and it's they call it the Woodstock of Radical Life
Speaker 2: Extension Technologies. Okay, right, So there she explores all kinds
Speaker 2: of different products and companies that are off ring services
Speaker 2: basically or again a device you could have at your
Speaker 2: own house that purport to do things that we've been
Speaker 2: talking about in this episode extending your life or the
Speaker 2: quality of your life, or letting you, you know, live
Speaker 2: a little bit longer, a little bit healthier, And I
Speaker 2: just think it was worth us mentioning. We don't have
Speaker 2: to talk about any of them specifically, but just that,
Speaker 2: to my eyes and ears, those technologies and companies seem
Speaker 2: to be aimed directly at older consumers who are concerned
Speaker 2: with their own mortality, who happen to either be wealthy
Speaker 2: enough to drop a couple thousand dollars on something, or
Speaker 2: have enough retirement money or income right to not be
Speaker 2: worried about dropping a couple thousand dollars on something.
Speaker 3: You think it's an accident that it was in Las Vegas.
Speaker 3: I mean, we've talked about how like casinos also target
Speaker 3: older people with like disposable incomes. And again some of
Speaker 3: the things in here, you know, results may vary, I guess,
Speaker 3: but some of them and the marketing behind them, You're
Speaker 3: absolutely right, You're absolutely right.
Speaker 2: But in the same time, in that documentary you can
Speaker 2: learn really interesting things about stuff that we already mentioned
Speaker 2: in this episode, but research into how to extend life's
Speaker 2: good years and then shorten the amount of deterioration years. Right,
Speaker 2: And we just at least should mention this. You can
Speaker 2: look it up on your own time. But doctor Leonard
Speaker 2: Guarante from MIT studying these things called SR two genes,
Speaker 2: which is it's this incredible way to basically stop genes
Speaker 2: from hitting that genetic kill switch or the off switch
Speaker 2: to where cells will stop regenerating and stop reproducing. It's
Speaker 2: fascinating stuff, and hopefully there's some kind of silver lining
Speaker 2: in here somewhere that says all of this isn't apocalyptic,
Speaker 2: all of it isn't just for ultra wealthy people. We
Speaker 2: could as a species maybe get to a place that
Speaker 2: isn't immortality, but is at least improving the good stuff
Speaker 2: in decreasing the bad stuff.
Speaker 1: And it becomes prisoner's dilemma. It really does. Like if
Speaker 1: you could guarantee that every single instance of Homo sapiens
Speaker 1: would have a very well lived quality of life up
Speaker 1: until maybe fifty years old. Everybody dies when they're fifty
Speaker 1: or something like that, then how many people of the
Speaker 1: billions out there would be willing to sacrifice what they
Speaker 1: see as they're extra twenty seven years, right in return
Speaker 1: for making the world a better place for everyone.
Speaker 3: Well, and one thing I think was in this video,
Speaker 3: it might have been in another one. The argument in
Speaker 3: these types of discussions always comes up about like how
Speaker 3: well the world is already, like we're running out of resources,
Speaker 3: populations ballooning out of control. What would it mean if
Speaker 3: all of a sudden everybody lived forever. It would be
Speaker 3: a drain on resources, It would be a drain on
Speaker 3: a lot of things, especially if people were retired and
Speaker 3: just living forever, you know, and like had to be
Speaker 3: taken care of in some way, shape or form. But uh,
Speaker 3: I wish I could remember, because I thought this guy
Speaker 3: made a really good point. He said, if you knew
Speaker 3: that the problems of the future were going to be
Speaker 3: your problems, wouldn't you live life a little differently?
Speaker 1: Sure?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 1: Would a president and a democracy be more responsible if
Speaker 1: something after the four year period of potus matter or
Speaker 1: affected them?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Oh, if they were going to live longer than a
Speaker 2: couple of years.
Speaker 3: That's what I mean literally in your life, Like, if
Speaker 3: you were going to live longer and you were going
Speaker 3: to experience the results of climate change or whatever it
Speaker 3: might be, would you feel differently would you behave differently?
Speaker 3: And you know, the argument is that, well, I'm doing
Speaker 3: it for my kids, for my grandkids, but that's not
Speaker 3: the same as doing it for you. And I'm not
Speaker 3: saying that people are inherently selfish, but I do think
Speaker 3: it would. It would move the needle in an interesting way.
Speaker 3: That's all us.
Speaker 1: Yeah, speaking of interesting, it's interesting that you talk about
Speaker 1: humanity is inherent selfishness, because if you really interrogate that
Speaker 1: as a human being, what you will find is that
Speaker 1: ultimately your selfish interest in the long term, they align
Speaker 1: with all that crazy utopian stuff. It is better for
Speaker 1: you as an individual to live in a world that
Speaker 1: is sustainable. It is better for you as an individual
Speaker 1: to live in a world where people aren't committing crime
Speaker 1: out of necessity. The logic is solid, and it's sad
Speaker 1: that it is so difficult and put upon the consumer
Speaker 1: to eliminate the noise. I love that we're going to
Speaker 1: questions because that's where we end. Let's end on the
Speaker 1: most important point. With all the factors we talked about
Speaker 1: at play, it is now increasingly possible that someone alive
Speaker 1: today will achieve a form of immortality. Personally, I think
Speaker 1: it's going to happen. They might live to one thousand,
Speaker 1: they might have some they might be the emulated human
Speaker 1: may live forever or until a certain get unplugged. But
Speaker 1: one thing for sure, it's not going to be perfect.
Speaker 1: It is going to up end civilization. I think this
Speaker 1: is a huge point because, as we established earlier, for years,
Speaker 1: all successful human civilizations fundamentally depend on people dying on
Speaker 1: a routine basis. The world is not ready. The research
Speaker 1: will increase, but it's the cusp of a strange renaissance,
Speaker 1: a future feedback loop. Our feed are halfway off the
Speaker 1: chasm of this grand canyon. I mean, we have to
Speaker 1: end with those questions. How will this technology roll out?
Speaker 1: How will civilization adjust to a class of millenniarians and immortals,
Speaker 1: Especially these people who don't die still need to do
Speaker 1: the human things like eat, sleep, drink potable water. How
Speaker 1: would you solve the problem of immortality? Fellow conspiracy realist.
Speaker 2: Honestly, don't think it's that dire or or bad. I
Speaker 2: think I think I think it's gonna be great. Actually,
Speaker 2: because I don't have that I don't know, man, I
Speaker 2: feel I kind of am aligning with the once if
Speaker 2: people actually were living longer, they would want to improve
Speaker 2: things more than they currently do. That's really where I
Speaker 2: see it, So.
Speaker 1: Let us know your thoughts. Conspiracy Realist, We appreciate your time.
Speaker 1: As always, we endeavor to be easy to find online.
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