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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A

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Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the show.

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Speaker 3: My name is Matt, my name is Nolan.

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Speaker 1: They call me Ben. We're joined as always with our

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Speaker 1: super producer, fall mission controlled decand most importantly, you are here.

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Speaker 1: And that makes this the stuff they don't want you

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Speaker 1: to know. Recently, bit of backstage stuff, guys, we had

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Speaker 1: a conversation about a particularly troubling story around Oregon transplants,

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Speaker 1: which we'll get to in a moment. Fellow conspiracy realist,

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Speaker 1: this inspired us to return to a continuing series of

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Speaker 1: explorations and conspiracies that began in the ancient past and

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Speaker 1: appear to escalate in the modern day. This is our

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty three update. Who wants to Live Forever? Here

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Speaker 1: are the facts you and I gonna live?

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Speaker 3: Maybe? Maybe? Should? We want to be clear?

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Speaker 1: Oh? I really want to know how the garden grows.

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Speaker 1: I'm kidding. I am obsessed with people growing plants. I

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Speaker 1: want to know all about it.

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Speaker 3: How they don't kill them, because that I have a

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Speaker 3: black thumb as it were. But yeah, we've we've definitely

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Speaker 3: talked about this subject. Currently. There are three to four

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Speaker 3: different kinds of I guess, quote unquote it seems like

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Speaker 3: a bit of a hyperbolic term, but immortality, and they

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Speaker 3: are not all created equal. In fact, a lot of

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Speaker 3: them are kind of a monkey's pot type scenario. They're

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Speaker 3: not particularly great. No, we're gonna do it. We'll do it.

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Speaker 1: Let's do a quick recap, right and at the end

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Speaker 1: of each we will give you the human version of it.

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Speaker 1: But you're right, Noel, these different genres of practicable immortality,

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Speaker 1: they're not super great. They're sort of like, you know,

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Speaker 1: a Geo Metro is a car, but is it your

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Speaker 1: favorite car?

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Speaker 3: No?

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Speaker 2: No, But let's talk about the jellyfish that we mentioned

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Speaker 2: back in the day, because this I remember this blowing

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Speaker 2: my mind when we learned this, that there's a type

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Speaker 2: of jellyfish that can, upon going through some kind of

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Speaker 2: traumatic event, basically morph itself or back into the early

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Speaker 2: stages of life and then restart. Is that real?

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Speaker 1: The Humboldt Urretopsis dorny, Yeah, it's the adult version of

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Speaker 1: this would be about as wide as an adult human

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Speaker 1: pinky noil. All right, so Shaquille O'Neill, this thing is

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Speaker 1: not It was first discovered in eighteen eighty three or

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Speaker 1: you know, we need hard air quotes around discovered. Some

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Speaker 1: European scientists found it in the Mediterranean, and then they

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Speaker 1: ignored it. Humans ignored this guy for around about a

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Speaker 1: century give or take, until in the nineteen nineties they

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Speaker 1: noticed something bizarre.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm picturing this scenario. I guess it reminds me

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Speaker 3: of the way maybe like seahorses give birth. These fellas

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Speaker 3: produced usually typically the old fashioned way in terms of

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Speaker 3: the way old fashioned jellyfish reproduced using free floating sperm

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Speaker 3: and eggs that meat not inside the body but in

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Speaker 3: the ocean, you know, more like tadpole, you know, kind

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Speaker 3: of scenario. And they tend to also die in regular ways,

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Speaker 3: like you know, they're yummy little delicacies to sea predators,

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Speaker 3: environmental hazards of course, you know, it's hard out there

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Speaker 3: for a jellyfish. Not gonna lie.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they're not apex predators. No, But Matt, as you

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Speaker 1: were saying, the humble tourtopsis does have a superpower.

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Speaker 2: So if it goes through a hard time, that doesn't

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Speaker 2: fully kill the organism. It has this crazy ability to

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Speaker 2: transform it cells like put him put put its own

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Speaker 2: cells in a time machine, go back into its earlier stages,

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Speaker 2: drop back down in the ocean, become what like polyps again, right,

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Speaker 2: and then bud back into these jellyfish that then rise

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Speaker 2: up and get to be jellyfish again.

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Speaker 3: So what what doesn't kill them literally makes them younger

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Speaker 3: and strong, stronger.

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Speaker 2: What doesn't kill younger?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like they get It's like imagine you're playing

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Speaker 1: a video game and you get the game over sign

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Speaker 1: or you know, the screen, and then you say, okay,

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Speaker 1: I'll just start again. In human terms, this is like

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Speaker 1: if you were in a massive car crash catastrophic, you know,

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Speaker 1: all of a sudden, instead of dying, you would turn

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Speaker 1: into a fetus. So the first responders would, you know,

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Speaker 1: use the jaws of life and open up the car

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Speaker 1: and there would be just a little baby you.

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Speaker 3: Baby, yeah, little fella.

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Speaker 1: We don't know enough about this, uh tutopsis to we

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Speaker 1: as a civilization don't know enough about jellyfish in general

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Speaker 1: to guess at whether these things carry over any previous

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Speaker 1: knowledge or experiences on their great reset. And we also

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Speaker 1: don't know how often they can trigger this reboot? You know,

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Speaker 1: is it like the old superstition about cats. Do they

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Speaker 1: get nine lives and then it's just your final jellyfish?

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Speaker 1: Or can they do a Rensom repeat process. If that's

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Speaker 1: the case, under the right circumstances, these things can just

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Speaker 1: continue ad infinitum.

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Speaker 3: At the very least, though, you'd think I'd be interested

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Speaker 3: at least then maybe a topic for a different day.

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Speaker 3: You would wonder if there was research being done into

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Speaker 3: how this occurs and if it can be harnessed in

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Speaker 3: some way.

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Speaker 1: You know, yes, how can we apply that? How Like

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Speaker 1: technology is the measured application of natural processes, right, so

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Speaker 1: how can we better emulate the jellyfish? This particular jellyfish.

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Speaker 1: It's the only one. Just so you know, folks, next

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Speaker 1: time you see a jellyfish, that thing's gonna die. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's not as cool we're talking about winning the lottery.

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Speaker 1: And back in two thousand and eight, these tiny little

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Speaker 1: pinky nail size to atopsies. They swarmed the world's oceans,

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Speaker 1: and a couple of scientists looked into this, and they

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Speaker 1: found that no matter where they picked up a specimen

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Speaker 1: of this jellyfish, it would bear an identical genetic code.

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Speaker 1: It's not just an immortal jellyfish, it's a clone army replicating.

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Speaker 3: That is wild. That should be fodder for a great story.

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Speaker 1: I'm on board. I want to eat one, you know

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Speaker 1: what I mean? Jellyfish? Like, let's just see what they

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Speaker 1: you know, what do they taste like?

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Speaker 3: All right, all right, Darwin?

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Speaker 2: Right, but the jellyfish isn't the only creature we've looked

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Speaker 2: at that has some kind of crazy regenerative slash immortal superpower.

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Speaker 1: Right right, let's do made for TV. Let's sell our

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Speaker 1: life extension technology.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 1: So okay, if it sounds inconvenient for you to turn

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Speaker 1: into a baby instead of dying, why not just get

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Speaker 1: a wolverine superpower? Why not study the works of the

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Speaker 1: amazing and my opinion, disgusting Plenarian.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, in twenty eleven, some smart folks over at MIT

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Speaker 3: dug super deep into this particular superpower. Daniel Wagner and

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Speaker 3: Irving Wang killed planarians in a number of ways. Yes, yeah, yeah, flatworms.

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Speaker 3: Wasn't that the thing that was in that lady's brain?

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Speaker 3: It was a nematode, But that wasn't far off. I

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Speaker 3: think there was a yeah, well they're okay, sorry, round hole.

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Speaker 1: There are a lot of worms, is the main thing.

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Speaker 3: It's true, And if you're really creeped out by worms,

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Speaker 3: don't watch the new Goosebumps reboot on Disney Plus. So

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Speaker 3: Daniel Wagner and Irving wang Uh basically did a you know,

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Speaker 3: plenarian genocide, and it became particularly interesting to them to

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Speaker 3: study radiation as a means of execution because high doeses

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Speaker 3: of radiation kill the animal's ability to regenerate, which makes sense.

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Speaker 3: But then they conducted a transplant, putting one cell from

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Speaker 3: a donor worm the tail of the irradiated terminal worms,

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Speaker 3: the worm that was on its way out. National Geographic

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Speaker 3: has a very telling description of the results.

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Speaker 2: Yeah here he goes quote. As the planarian dies from

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Speaker 2: the head backwards, the transplanted cells spread from the tail upwards.

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Speaker 2: At its worst, the animal is a stunted mass with

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Speaker 2: no discernible head. But two weeks after the transplant, it

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Speaker 2: has completely regenerated. A new plenarian has risen phoenix like

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Speaker 2: from the ashes. Its entire body is now genetically identical

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Speaker 2: to the single transplanted cell.

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Speaker 1: Hey, beautiful, beautiful, also okay, terrified, amazing x files in

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Speaker 1: the human example. In the anthrocentric example, let's go back

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Speaker 1: to that idea of the car crash.

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Speaker 3: It sucked.

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Speaker 1: You shouldn't driven that geometro. You have lost both your legs,

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Speaker 1: maybe half your body. It's a coin toss at that point.

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Speaker 1: If you have the plenarian superpower over which part of

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Speaker 1: you regenerates. For a reason scientists don't fully understand, it's weirder.

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Speaker 1: The plenarian, upon regeneration, upon donation of cells, upon dividing,

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Speaker 1: it carries the memories of its previous existence. So, by

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Speaker 1: that logic, if humans could emulate this, you would regenerate

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Speaker 1: after a car crash, but two of you would regenerate,

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Speaker 1: and each instance of you would have some vague recollection

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Speaker 1: of the days or decades before that car crash.

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Speaker 2: It reminds me of one of the Thirteen Days of

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Speaker 2: Halloween stories in this season blood little transplantation that occurs.

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Speaker 1: So we're so gassed right now, fellow conspiracy realist of

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Speaker 1: Thirteen Days of Halloween. Big props to Matt Frederick. Big

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Speaker 1: props to Ari Menke and Alex Williams. Also, Nola, I'm

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Speaker 1: hearing some pretty pretty cool stuff about an episode you're

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Speaker 1: working on.

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Speaker 3: I'm doing some bleeps and bloops for a very cool

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Speaker 3: episode written by our buddy Joe McCormick, who's also been

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Speaker 3: on the show talking about Oh gosh, the by cameral mind,

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Speaker 3: The by cameral mind exactly.

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Speaker 1: Another instance of two things existing as one. Yes, So

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Speaker 1: that's that's still inconvenient, right, That's not quite immortality. That's

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Speaker 1: more franchising really.

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Speaker 2: It is crazy though, that you could take cells from

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Speaker 2: another individual creature, one cell, attach it to a thing

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Speaker 2: that is dead and or you know, dying and about

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Speaker 2: to be dead, and then it can become that dead

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Speaker 2: thing like that's and the as you said, the dead

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Speaker 2: thing retained stuff. I don't know, man, that's too much

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Speaker 2: for me.

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Speaker 1: Well, Matt, it is also October, we hurd a headlong

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Speaker 1: towards the most wonderful time of the year, so what

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Speaker 1: better time to talk about these creepy things. We also

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Speaker 1: want to point out the third version of immortality, which

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Speaker 1: does exist. It's quite cruel. It's the story of Henrietta Lax,

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Speaker 1: particularly her cancer cells. She is technically the first human immortal.

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Speaker 1: She was a US resident African American, died at thirty

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Speaker 1: one with a evil, aggressive form of cervical cancer. She

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Speaker 1: passed away. She is dead and has been dead for

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Speaker 1: a long time. After her death, without her knowledge nor

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Speaker 1: her consent, doctors at John Hopkins took samples of the

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Speaker 1: cancer that ended her life, and they used them to

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Speaker 1: form an immortal human cancer cell lide, which continues today.

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Speaker 1: It's now known as HeLa. It's been used for countless

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Speaker 1: medical innovations and discoveries, just like the guy who invented

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Speaker 1: the three point seat belt, Neil's bullet. No relation. It's

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Speaker 1: sort of difficult to it's difficult to understand how many

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Speaker 1: lives this immortal saved. But the hel Us.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, in this year, the family, the descendants of

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Speaker 2: that line of Henrietta Lacks, they finally settled with Thermo

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Speaker 2: Fisher for a pretty hefty sum, which is at least

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Speaker 2: some kind of justice in that I don't know, tail.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, because they worked tirelessly for decades in a real

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Speaker 1: David versus Goliath's story to get recognition for you know,

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Speaker 1: what some people spiritually would view as an atrocity and

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Speaker 1: one that continues. The Henrietta Lacks Sahela sels they have

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Speaker 1: no memory of their origin or their previous life. You

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Speaker 1: can't quite you know, you can't wire them up to

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Speaker 1: a computer and have a chat. Right, And that's where

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Speaker 1: we get to the fourth version of immortality, which is

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Speaker 1: like immortality asterisk the newest kid on the block, living

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Speaker 1: forever as a digital emulation. This is on the way.

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Speaker 1: The first versions are not going.

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Speaker 3: To be good.

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Speaker 1: They're going to leverage large language models, you know, and

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Speaker 1: some early form of generalized AI, and they're going to

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Speaker 1: pull all the data they can about a person while

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Speaker 1: they were alive. All your text, even the ones you

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Speaker 1: wish you didn't send, all your recorded conversations, social media posts,

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Speaker 1: biographical info. Uh Gary Oldman meme everything?

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Speaker 3: Right? What is that from? I can remember?

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Speaker 1: I think he's saying everyone though, right, Okay.

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Speaker 3: I guess what I think of a fun Gary Oldman voices.

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Speaker 3: I have crossed oceans of time to find you.

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Speaker 1: The creatures of the night, well, the mesdemic. So this

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Speaker 1: idea is you could get if you get enough information

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Speaker 1: from a person, if you get enough instances of their

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Speaker 1: living reaction to external stimuli, then you can The idea

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Speaker 1: is you can emulate this person. You can model what

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Speaker 1: they would have said or what they would have done

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Speaker 1: in reaction to new stimuli. This is a deep water.

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Speaker 1: It poses a wide range of questions and problems, and

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Speaker 1: we'll examine those later this evening. What you need to

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Speaker 1: know there's a lot happening in this field, and it's

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Speaker 1: gonna take a long time for the living meat headworld

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Speaker 1: to catch up.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, just a concept of all your recorded conversations. When

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Speaker 2: you think about what the government might be recording at

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Speaker 2: all times when you use your phone, that's a little

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Speaker 2: creepy because if they wanted to, maybe they could have

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Speaker 2: all the data with all your recorded convos.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's a natural extension of deep fake. Right,

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Speaker 1: that's what's happening. It's the future is now. And believe

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Speaker 1: it is.

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Speaker 3: That organic deep fake.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, boy Oka, believe it or not. Most of

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Speaker 1: this these three to four honestly, as you said, in

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Speaker 1: old kind of stinky versions of immortality, they're old beans.

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Speaker 1: Scientists are researching the implications of these various genres of

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Speaker 1: avoiding death, and billionaires and multi millionaires are pouring their

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Speaker 1: fortune into the one thing they can yet not buy,

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Speaker 1: a life that never ends. I mean, you get it,

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Speaker 1: classic human You'll have to look far. It's a fool's

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Speaker 1: errand for most of the history.

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Speaker 3: It's also like the mcguffin of so many like villain

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Speaker 3: arcs in you know, adventure, historical fiction, science fiction. You know,

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Speaker 3: there's always some evil gazillionaire that like he has it

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Speaker 3: all or they have it all except for the secret

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Speaker 3: of eternal life, and that usually drives them mad because

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Speaker 3: it is usually presented as being unattainable and or monkey's

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Speaker 3: paw level, like you don't even know what to do

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Speaker 3: with it. Once you get.

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Speaker 1: It, it's yours, Indy, yours and mine. But then they

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Speaker 1: cross the seal, right, and in Indiana Jones, well spoilers,

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Speaker 1: the Holy Grail doesn't work out for them, and you know, you.

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Speaker 3: Make sure some great practical effects though it is great.

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Speaker 1: Right the pinach needles before caught. So in the past,

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Speaker 1: obviously a lot of people tried and failed to stave

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Speaker 1: off death. And you could look at the pursuit of

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Speaker 1: immortality as this sort of vanity project, right, look at

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Speaker 1: the Pyramids, look at the taj Mahal, the octatramph and

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Speaker 1: so on. But now the reason we're doing this update

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Speaker 1: this evening turns out that research may be paying off

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Speaker 1: and further forces may conspire to keep that knowledge from

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Speaker 1: the masses. We'll see whether or not they can do it.

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Speaker 1: But as you are listening this evening, as strange as

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Speaker 1: it sounds, the first immortal may be alive today, and we're.

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Speaker 2: Gonna track that joker down right after these messages.

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Speaker 3: No, I'm just shook.

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Speaker 2: We'll be right back though.

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Speaker 1: Here's where it gets crazy. That's correct, fellow conspiracy realist.

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Speaker 1: The first immortal human being may have already been born,

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Speaker 1: or at least someone who breaks the conventional scientific understanding

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Speaker 1: right now. Science says, all things being equal, if you

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Speaker 1: have all the money and you have all the genetic

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Speaker 1: factors at your back, you can live to one hundred

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Speaker 1: and twenty five to one hundred and fifty, at which

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Speaker 1: point your your basic code will break down. But an

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Speaker 1: actual immortal maybe alive now. And when we say actual immortal,

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Speaker 1: we're not talking about these the three to four crappy

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Speaker 1: conditions we explored earlier. We're talking about immortality that is

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Speaker 1: Holy Grail level. See our references payoff. Oh yeah, that

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Speaker 1: satisfies the following three conditions.

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Speaker 2: Has a Clai isn't afraid to decapitate other immortals?

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Speaker 3: Right? Is magic skilled in exactly arch nemesis is called

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Speaker 3: the Krogan, the Kragan what was that guy's name. That

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Speaker 3: guy's awesome, what a great villain in Highlander the first time.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they never worked together and the franchise took a

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Speaker 1: weird turn when they went to space. But you know,

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Speaker 1: there is no judgment in brainstorming the idea of being

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Speaker 1: immortal in like the Paragon, the platonic ideal of it

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Speaker 1: is that you will have regenerative ability, meaning that your

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Speaker 1: cells will continue to divide and reproduce while also not

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Speaker 1: encountering the inevitable physical genetic degradation of age.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you will, exactly, you will hit that heyflick limit

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Speaker 2: right where after forty to sixty replications yourself are like, no,

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Speaker 2: we're still going.

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Speaker 3: Man. Well, if we're doing plugs. This Rolling Stones podcast

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Speaker 3: that is about to wrap that I've been working on,

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Speaker 3: we talk a lot about Keith Richards is insane drug

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Speaker 3: abuse and you know, just absolutely the fact that he

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Speaker 3: has cheated death so many times. And there's a scene

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Speaker 3: where they like hired a doctor for this tour and

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Speaker 3: one of our interview guys is talking to the doctor

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Speaker 3: while they're on their private plane and like, Keith Richards

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Speaker 3: is like hanging from the luggage bins, and the doctor

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Speaker 3: leans into this guy, Gary Stromerg and says, you see,

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Speaker 3: they're like simions. That's why they That's why they they're

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Speaker 3: invincible like simions, because you know, I mean, Keith Richard's

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Speaker 3: probably got his act together to a certain degree. But

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Speaker 3: that guy's got to be pushing eight late eighties, you know,

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Speaker 3: and he's not showing any signs of slowing down. And

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Speaker 3: you know, smoked more than this humanly possible, did all

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Speaker 3: the crazy drugs you can imagine, and he still seems

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Speaker 3: pretty spry. So sometimes you do have to wonder, like

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Speaker 3: there is a genetic lottery, and it does seem like

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Speaker 3: we don't fully know what it is. Someone should study

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Speaker 3: Keith Richards's genetic markers. That'd be an interesting bit of data.

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Speaker 1: I do not know something like that is happening. Cousy

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Speaker 1: Osborne sort of paved the way as well, because the

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Speaker 1: question for any physician would be, how could this person,

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Speaker 1: given a history of abuse survive even with all the

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Speaker 1: financial uh oh yeah, access to checobs and financial agency.

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Speaker 1: That's the question. So the first one is regenerative ability.

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Speaker 1: The second issue is the problem of replacement. It's the

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Speaker 1: old ship of thesis argument, right, which has now acquired

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Speaker 1: a new terrifying relevancy. What's the ship of thesis? For

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Speaker 1: those of us playing along at home?

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Speaker 3: Comes up a lot for us, you know, it's just

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Speaker 3: the idea of I think it's come up in multiple

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Speaker 3: commons about AI and about technology, even like the idea

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Speaker 3: of if something has every single component replaced, is it

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Speaker 3: still the original thing? And you know, with technology that's

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Speaker 3: maybe less relevant. But when it comes to a person

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Speaker 3: where we ascribe some meaning to like the chaos of

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Speaker 3: what our parts, you know that we are greater than

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Speaker 3: the sum of our parts. If every single part of

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Speaker 3: a person is replaced, is it still the same person?

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Speaker 3: It is a fabulous lynchpin for sci fi type conversations.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a big deal because you could replace every

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Speaker 2: component in a phone, right, and it's still that version

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Speaker 2: of that phone.

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Speaker 3: But what was a mass manufactured in the first place?

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Speaker 2: Exactly? It doesn't work for individual biological things, at least

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Speaker 2: as far as we know right now.

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Speaker 1: Hardware software argument right. And so you know, you get

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Speaker 1: a new computer, you put you put your Google.

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Speaker 3: Right now.

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Speaker 1: Now, it's the same brain, different body, huh, what gives?

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Speaker 1: That's the third problem. The third problem for real immortality

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Speaker 1: cognitive durability. There is no use long term in making

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Speaker 1: a body or hardware that is constant if the mind

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Speaker 1: can't keep up the pace, because then you end up

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Speaker 1: with something where it's like, oh wow, this car has

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Speaker 1: great maintenance. The guy was supposed to drive it asn't

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Speaker 1: been back in you know, centuries. Still responds on the

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Speaker 1: chat input though, nice.

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Speaker 2: Hey, this is this is all to say, we definitely

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Speaker 2: need robotic bodies, like we need to become android's asap.

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Speaker 3: Guys. Let's go.

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Speaker 1: As soon as androtically androidically possible.

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Speaker 3: Yes, I mean I just started playing Cyberpunk now that

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Speaker 3: it's sort of like a whole game, and and it

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Speaker 3: does it is good, by the way, if anyone has

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Speaker 3: been like hesitant because of all the bad press, but

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Speaker 3: it does a really good job of showing you, you know, what,

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Speaker 3: what would would a world be like where you could

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Speaker 3: like supercharge any part of your body or your brain

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Speaker 3: or your like optics. And it also shows how that

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Speaker 3: creates a haves and have nots kind of scenario because

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Speaker 3: some people can afford it, some people have to get

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Speaker 3: it black market and sometimes that black market stuff does

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Speaker 3: not work as advertised and it can kill you or

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Speaker 3: turn you into like a psycho berserker or something. You know.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for your interest in Heart by Disney. If

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Speaker 1: you would like to continue your circulation, please subscribe to

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00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:42,760
Speaker 1: Heart by Disney Plus Premium Signature Collection Plan.

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Speaker 3: And the rate has gone up this month. We're we're

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Speaker 3: upping the We're upping the subscription.

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Speaker 2: Get thirty more bpm if you sign up for our

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Speaker 2: extreme package called it a boost.

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Speaker 3: It's like a boost car. You know, it's all in

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Speaker 3: app purchases. You know what's wild? Guys, Yeah, everybody joking around,

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Speaker 3: but we're not that far off from this kind of stuff.

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Speaker 3: I mean, we're you know, given the opportunity and the availability,

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Speaker 3: you know, folks are going to want to I mean,

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Speaker 3: people in power are going to want to do stuff

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Speaker 3: like that.

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Speaker 1: Guys, everybody right into our advertisers and tell them we've

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Speaker 1: got to pitch. This would have been a great time

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Speaker 1: for an Illumination Global and Limited ad but as as

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Speaker 1: we know, they take the month of October off for conferences.

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00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:30,800
Speaker 1: So in recent years you don't have to look far

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00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:34,639
Speaker 1: to see examples of people working separately and together to

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Speaker 1: solve these three big questions physical durability, replacement question, and

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Speaker 1: then cognitive durability. If you tuned into our weekly Strange

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Speaker 1: News segment, you may recall fellow conspiracy realist our brief

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Speaker 1: discussion about a guy I love. His name's Brian Johnson.

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Speaker 1: He was big and venmo He's in his mid forties,

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Speaker 1: forty five, forty six. Now he's not a billionaire. He's

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Speaker 1: a man of the people. Okay, he's just a multi millionaire.

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Speaker 1: Ah yeah, And he went viral in Western News because

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Speaker 1: of a particular aspect of his ongoing quest to first

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Speaker 1: slough and then mitigate and then reverse his biological clock.

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Speaker 3: Apparently he has the gum inflammation level of a seventeen

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Speaker 3: year old. That stood out to me, I need to

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Speaker 3: floss more.

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Speaker 2: Piers Morgan said, he added the gum whatever of an

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Speaker 2: eighteen year old, then a seventeen year old. And I

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Speaker 2: got so confused because a notable.

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Speaker 1: Expert, Piers Morgan a notable expert on inflammation.

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Speaker 3: But he does have a charming accent. And the interview

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Speaker 3: you're referencing Matt that we all watched, I thought it

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Speaker 3: was a little dirty pool because he interviews this guy

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Speaker 3: you know for a while and is very wow, this

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Speaker 3: is awesome, tell me more. And then the guy leaves

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Speaker 3: and he immediately has on this really mean older British

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Speaker 3: scientist who just absolutely lamed back the guy. He said, well,

432
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:03,520
Speaker 3: he may have the gum inflammation of a seventeen year old,

433
00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:05,280
Speaker 3: but he also appears to have the intellect of a

434
00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:09,320
Speaker 3: sin seen year old. But really nasty stuff. But yeah,

435
00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:12,159
Speaker 3: it begs the question, though, is like, hey, this guy's

436
00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:15,240
Speaker 3: not trying to sell you this, but he also sort

437
00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:18,119
Speaker 3: of is, because he's creating a regimen that he's like

438
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:21,399
Speaker 3: testing on himself. It's called blueprint, I think, and that

439
00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:24,399
Speaker 3: ultimately would be a thing that you could you know,

440
00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:26,520
Speaker 3: pay for, I guess in terms of like the secret

441
00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:28,480
Speaker 3: sauce or whatever. But at the end of the day,

442
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:31,679
Speaker 3: he seems to truly believe in this and he seems

443
00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:34,600
Speaker 3: to be very happy doing it. But it involves taking

444
00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:37,600
Speaker 3: like hundreds of supplements every day, going to bed at

445
00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:38,240
Speaker 3: eight o'clock.

446
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:38,640
Speaker 1: You know.

447
00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:44,160
Speaker 3: He eats a very specific strict vegan diet reduction coloric reduction,

448
00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:45,760
Speaker 3: which is a thing we know. A lot of these

449
00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:50,200
Speaker 3: mixed into his regiment are good things. But like, you know,

450
00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:53,760
Speaker 3: the mean British scientist was like, the amount of supplements

451
00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:56,680
Speaker 3: this guy's taking ninety percent of that stuff is bunk.

452
00:28:57,080 --> 00:28:59,240
Speaker 3: You don't need that. If you just eat a good diet,

453
00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:02,120
Speaker 3: you're gonna get most of these, you know, these nutrients.

454
00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:05,360
Speaker 3: Like I was prescribed to vitamin D supplement because I

455
00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:08,080
Speaker 3: guess I don't go outside enough. I gotta. I got

456
00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:11,800
Speaker 3: an alarming message for my doctor, say, you are drastically

457
00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:14,440
Speaker 3: low in vitamin D. So I take that like twice

458
00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:16,800
Speaker 3: a week. But that's it. Everything else, if you're eating right,

459
00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:18,000
Speaker 3: you're you're probably okay.

460
00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:21,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, this this is the issue. Here's why this guy

461
00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:26,160
Speaker 1: went viral. He is not the first to attempt these things.

462
00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:31,120
Speaker 1: He is not the pioneer. Right, He's made no necessarily

463
00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:39,280
Speaker 1: original breakthroughs. Right, He's combining existing technology, existing perspectives in

464
00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:42,960
Speaker 1: the pursuit just like the Chinese Emperor of Old to

465
00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:43,680
Speaker 1: not die.

466
00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:48,520
Speaker 2: And and well he's only he's only his forties, right.

467
00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:52,840
Speaker 1: And how dare you he doesn't identify as forty anymore?

468
00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:57,040
Speaker 2: Oh, what I mean is his body is biologically it's

469
00:29:57,080 --> 00:30:01,840
Speaker 2: been around the sun roughly forty five forty whatever, so

470
00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:06,360
Speaker 2: so like it's really interesting, I think, to me personally

471
00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:08,520
Speaker 2: to see somebody around that age range, because I'm not

472
00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:11,560
Speaker 2: that far from him right in age and my revel

473
00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:13,360
Speaker 2: my what do we call it?

474
00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:17,360
Speaker 3: The Yeah you're like the mid sixties, yeah.

475
00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:22,040
Speaker 2: Exactly, but I feel twenty eight. But it's like, it's

476
00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:26,320
Speaker 2: really cool to see somebody that young with this much money, uh,

477
00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:31,480
Speaker 2: seeming to really really try, like do everything he possibly

478
00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:35,240
Speaker 2: can to to answer those riddles that we post.

479
00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:38,760
Speaker 3: Right, he claims it's all based on data. He does

480
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:40,480
Speaker 3: have some. The way he puts it is interesting. He

481
00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:43,280
Speaker 3: says like he had a period where he was very unhappy,

482
00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:46,640
Speaker 3: he was depressed. He says he was overweight and he

483
00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:49,080
Speaker 3: just wanted to eat garbage food because it made him

484
00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:51,280
Speaker 3: feel good. But then he said he had to like

485
00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:54,600
Speaker 3: fire nighttime him, or that's the way he put it,

486
00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:57,840
Speaker 3: because like this version of him was like asking for

487
00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:01,360
Speaker 3: all the wrong stuff, was acting totally counter to what

488
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:04,440
Speaker 3: it would take to be the best version, you know, physiologically,

489
00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:07,800
Speaker 3: which you know, and you could argue that psychologically could

490
00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:12,200
Speaker 3: follow after that of himself. And he just said, everything

491
00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:15,960
Speaker 3: I do now is dictated by best practices around these

492
00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:18,600
Speaker 3: types of intake of stuff.

493
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:20,000
Speaker 2: Sure, they're fun.

494
00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:21,280
Speaker 3: There are a lot of people.

495
00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:24,560
Speaker 1: There are a lot of people who would honestly like

496
00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:27,320
Speaker 1: to live that way. To Like, if you've ever seen

497
00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:32,960
Speaker 1: if you've ever seen pilots preparing to take to take

498
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:36,720
Speaker 1: a plane into the air, then they're not vibing, they're

499
00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:41,400
Speaker 1: not freestyling. They have a list of procedures, right, checkthroughs, processing, right,

500
00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:43,640
Speaker 1: that's how that's it. Do you want to live your

501
00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:49,240
Speaker 1: life that way? Doing your rundown every you know, cyclical

502
00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:51,560
Speaker 1: twenty four hours. Here's why he got in the news.

503
00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:55,320
Speaker 1: He got in the news because of a tried generational

504
00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:59,240
Speaker 1: blood swapping regimen. It's not all the blood. It's not

505
00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:02,400
Speaker 1: all the blood, it's some of the blood, platelets, plasma.

506
00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:07,280
Speaker 1: He's got a kid who when this one viral, is

507
00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:11,200
Speaker 1: seventeen years old. He's got a dad, you know, luckily

508
00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:14,400
Speaker 1: for him, luckily for anybody with surviving parents. His father

509
00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:18,960
Speaker 1: is alive. His father, Richard, is seventy years old, and

510
00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:24,000
Speaker 1: Brian's son, Talmadge, is seventeen. So the way it works

511
00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:30,600
Speaker 1: is that Talmadge will give his dad some plasma, some platelets,

512
00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:34,280
Speaker 1: all the good stuff, and then Brian will take that

513
00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:38,920
Speaker 1: digest it through you know, his plumbing, and he will

514
00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:43,120
Speaker 1: in turn give some of that not quite new but

515
00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:45,200
Speaker 1: new to me blood to his.

516
00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:47,640
Speaker 3: Father and pay it forward, you know.

517
00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:52,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, And two of the three report that they feel better.

518
00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:56,479
Speaker 3: See that once again, though I'm not trying to poopoo

519
00:32:56,480 --> 00:33:01,840
Speaker 3: anything but like feel better. It's a very subjective kind

520
00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:04,480
Speaker 3: of concept. And there's a lot of placebo effect. We

521
00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:06,920
Speaker 3: know how powerful that can be when you're doing a

522
00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:10,760
Speaker 3: procedure that seems so like, oh, this is a techy

523
00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:12,960
Speaker 3: as hell, you know, this seems like it should definitely

524
00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:15,120
Speaker 3: do something if I'm going through all this this trouble.

525
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:18,080
Speaker 3: Another thing that I think made him go viral was

526
00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:22,560
Speaker 3: that he took an alarming number of scans of his bowels.

527
00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:26,200
Speaker 3: It was like, yeah, thousands, he said. He swallowed a

528
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:29,240
Speaker 3: camera the size of a baby carrot, he said, and

529
00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:32,239
Speaker 3: he took an insane number of And he's backed up

530
00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:35,560
Speaker 3: by like a crew of scientists who again in this

531
00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:38,640
Speaker 3: Pierce Morgan interview, one of them came on after the

532
00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:41,000
Speaker 3: mean British scientist, you know, poo poo the whole thing,

533
00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:44,880
Speaker 3: and he's like, you're not wrong, mean British scientists. There

534
00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:47,360
Speaker 3: are a lot of aspects of this that are being

535
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:51,480
Speaker 3: a misreported. Also, our subject isn't a scientist, and he

536
00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:55,280
Speaker 3: is sort of a forward facing guy talking to the

537
00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:57,320
Speaker 3: media about this, and he's getting some things wrong. I

538
00:33:57,320 --> 00:33:59,280
Speaker 3: thought it was pretty bold. This guy said all that stuff,

539
00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:03,400
Speaker 3: and we are going to start releasing data in peer

540
00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:06,720
Speaker 3: reviewed journals, and only at that point can the conversation

541
00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:09,200
Speaker 3: really start to include everybody. Right.

542
00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:14,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, and this idea, which we covered in a previous episode,

543
00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:19,040
Speaker 1: modern vampires longer life through younger blood. It's grizzly, but again,

544
00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:23,080
Speaker 1: it's not wholly new. For decades and honestly low key.

545
00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:27,759
Speaker 1: For centuries, human beings have tried to understand how plasma

546
00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:33,360
Speaker 1: transfers from young instances of a life form to older

547
00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:39,640
Speaker 1: instances of a life form may mitigate or reverse biological aging.

548
00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:44,680
Speaker 1: The fancy name for it is perobiosis. That's what happens

549
00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:47,759
Speaker 1: in Mad Mac's Fury Road, right when one of the

550
00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:51,360
Speaker 1: war boys wants to drive. He's already dying of cancer

551
00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:55,799
Speaker 1: and he's like strap on this. They call him a

552
00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:58,879
Speaker 1: blood bag, right, a blood boy. Yeah?

553
00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:02,520
Speaker 3: So okay, can I just say we also do see

554
00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:05,120
Speaker 3: in that film that the main guy, you know, I

555
00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:08,640
Speaker 3: Morton Joe, who holds all the power, is actually not

556
00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:12,400
Speaker 3: youthful at all. He's like an atrophying, you know, skeleton,

557
00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:15,640
Speaker 3: kind of like decaying before everyone's very eyes. But he

558
00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:18,160
Speaker 3: wears this like fake suit that makes him look like

559
00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:20,719
Speaker 3: he's tough. So I think even in that world, you're

560
00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:24,040
Speaker 3: supposed to kind of realize that this is all bogus.

561
00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:27,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, but that's the thing, there may be some sand

562
00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:31,040
Speaker 1: to it. Harvard recently conducted a study with mice, and

563
00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:37,920
Speaker 1: they used a specific form of parabiosis called heterochronic parabiosis,

564
00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:43,160
Speaker 1: which means they they hooked up not quite human centipede style,

565
00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:45,720
Speaker 1: they hooked up in old mouse and a young mouse.

566
00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:49,920
Speaker 1: They did this several times, and there's you know, no

567
00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:54,120
Speaker 1: God to stop them. They kept these circulatory systems plugged

568
00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:58,080
Speaker 1: up together, running concurrently for three months, and what they

569
00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:01,880
Speaker 1: found was that the old mia, by virtue of having

570
00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:06,120
Speaker 1: this new addition to their circulatory system, they lived an

571
00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:10,520
Speaker 1: average of six percent to nine percent longer than the

572
00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:15,440
Speaker 1: old mice who did not undergo this parrobiosis and worth it.

573
00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:21,840
Speaker 3: Last nine man, that's that's the good percent. That's what

574
00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:22,719
Speaker 3: you want.

575
00:36:22,719 --> 00:36:24,400
Speaker 1: Text to Henry Kissinger.

576
00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:27,520
Speaker 3: You're saying, so they essentially it's like you're doing a transfusion,

577
00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:30,520
Speaker 3: except or connected to a real living creature, and then

578
00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:33,120
Speaker 3: something else is connected to that. So your blood is

579
00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:35,319
Speaker 3: flowing from one to the other to the other and

580
00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:38,280
Speaker 3: then back around and I like a loop. That's that's

581
00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:42,120
Speaker 3: oh wow, that's disturbing but fascinating.

582
00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:44,719
Speaker 1: I don't think it works for anybody who's about to

583
00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:45,440
Speaker 1: write the email.

584
00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:46,279
Speaker 3: I don't.

585
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:50,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think you can just like wire a

586
00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:53,839
Speaker 1: utility belt of young mice around you and snake them

587
00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:55,440
Speaker 1: into your circulatory system.

588
00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:59,040
Speaker 3: I think, yeah, the system probably has something to do

589
00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:00,920
Speaker 3: with it. Like we probably could do that with people,

590
00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:02,520
Speaker 3: because it's we can't our system.

591
00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:04,520
Speaker 1: We can do it well, not ethically.

592
00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:06,800
Speaker 2: I'm saying a horrible vision.

593
00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:09,600
Speaker 3: Oh dude, it's terrifying, man. But I guess what I'm

594
00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:12,319
Speaker 3: getting at though, is like maybe when you shrink it

595
00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:14,200
Speaker 3: down it doesn't matter. But like it seems like our

596
00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:18,279
Speaker 3: the length the scope of our circulatory systems would make

597
00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:20,480
Speaker 3: that more difficult and the pressure would be more of

598
00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:22,759
Speaker 3: a concern, like the blood pressure. It seems like that

599
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:25,600
Speaker 3: a lot could go wrong in a human trial or

600
00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:26,160
Speaker 3: something like this.

601
00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:28,799
Speaker 1: Well, it's also inconvenient. You know, I like to think

602
00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:32,160
Speaker 1: of us as running and gunning, sticking and moving. We

603
00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:33,239
Speaker 1: don't have time.

604
00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:36,320
Speaker 3: Sticking and poking. Yeah, we're yeah, we don't.

605
00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:39,600
Speaker 1: Have time to carry a jan sport equivalent of a

606
00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:43,600
Speaker 1: human being on our back. You know, Oh, Matt's in

607
00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:44,600
Speaker 1: all right, Matt.

608
00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:47,319
Speaker 2: You're thinking about it. He's thinking about it.

609
00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:51,120
Speaker 1: So we want to give credit whords to Harvard Medical

610
00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:57,040
Speaker 1: School Professor of medicine, Vadam lettyshev talks in depth about

611
00:37:57,600 --> 00:38:02,520
Speaker 1: how they rate success in this experiment and others like it.

612
00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:05,520
Speaker 1: How do you rate parabiosis? How do you know if

613
00:38:05,560 --> 00:38:10,120
Speaker 1: that old mouse really is getting its second wind? And

614
00:38:10,120 --> 00:38:14,520
Speaker 1: he goes into depth about some of the variables, talks

615
00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:17,960
Speaker 1: a great deal about what they call the epigenetic clock.

616
00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:21,160
Speaker 1: We're bringing this up because it's important to note there

617
00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:26,560
Speaker 1: is a metric here, a metric in play in actual science,

618
00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:32,600
Speaker 1: and our buddy Brian, his program never wholly rested on parabiosis.

619
00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:37,160
Speaker 1: That is one part. It's like the most clickbaiting part

620
00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:41,640
Speaker 1: of this strict regimen of exercise and supplements that he's

621
00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:44,080
Speaker 1: been doing for a while, which you mentioned earlier, Nol.

622
00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:48,680
Speaker 1: And at this point the medical community at large does

623
00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:54,480
Speaker 1: not recognize this. It does not support any procedure referred

624
00:38:54,520 --> 00:38:58,560
Speaker 1: to as anti aging blood transfusion exactly.

625
00:38:58,760 --> 00:39:01,040
Speaker 2: Well, and there are other things that he does too

626
00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:04,760
Speaker 2: that are not recognized, ben like the some certain infrared

627
00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:08,000
Speaker 2: light treatments that he goes through, and a bunch of

628
00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:11,160
Speaker 2: other things that are they sound really great, and then

629
00:39:11,239 --> 00:39:13,200
Speaker 2: you can go you can find websites all over the

630
00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:17,200
Speaker 2: internet that say, hey, this procedure is gonna stop this X,

631
00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:21,240
Speaker 2: Y and Z and your biological makeup and all this stuff,

632
00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:27,640
Speaker 2: but there's absolutely no what confirmed or agreed upon that's

633
00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:30,880
Speaker 2: the thing, actual outcome for these treatments. It's possible that

634
00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:33,600
Speaker 2: there's something there that we just don't understand yet because

635
00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:37,080
Speaker 2: this one research study appears to show that there's a

636
00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:38,839
Speaker 2: slight increase in whatever, but.

637
00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:41,640
Speaker 3: Well it doesn't. It also have to do it the

638
00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:45,080
Speaker 3: size of a trial. Like That's why this Brian Johnson

639
00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:48,160
Speaker 3: stuff is a little dubious because it's just him and

640
00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:51,560
Speaker 3: like you know, again the Keith Richards argument, like an

641
00:39:51,560 --> 00:39:54,920
Speaker 3: individual has a lot of variables as to what make

642
00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:58,000
Speaker 3: you could smoke ten packs a day and shoot up

643
00:39:58,120 --> 00:40:01,640
Speaker 3: junk between your toes and then still somehow managed to live,

644
00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:03,719
Speaker 3: you know, out into the ripe old age of like

645
00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:07,319
Speaker 3: ninety something. So we know some individuals do have like

646
00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:10,160
Speaker 3: super Gen's case in point, Henrietta Lacks. I mean, that

647
00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:13,880
Speaker 3: was a discovery, but like everyone doesn't have that, you know.

648
00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:19,360
Speaker 1: And also it's interesting they mentioned that because recently, earlier

649
00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:22,879
Speaker 1: this month, as we record, in October of twenty twenty three,

650
00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:26,399
Speaker 1: a twenty three year old guy named Andrew Boyd went

651
00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:30,640
Speaker 1: public with the seventy five days he had spent following

652
00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:35,600
Speaker 1: Brian Johnson's Blueprint diet. And at the end of the day,

653
00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:38,120
Speaker 1: because you know, let's put the boffins and the nerds

654
00:40:38,239 --> 00:40:41,880
Speaker 1: outside while we cool people talk about this. At the

655
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:44,640
Speaker 1: end of the day, this guy said that he had

656
00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:50,239
Speaker 1: great results. He lost thirty pounds. He sure he believed that.

657
00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:53,719
Speaker 1: He's like, now, my biological age is nineteen point two.

658
00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:56,400
Speaker 3: That's the part that's like, all woo woo oh, I

659
00:40:56,480 --> 00:41:00,840
Speaker 3: feel I feel different. Sure, yeah, Look, I've been doing

660
00:41:00,840 --> 00:41:03,040
Speaker 3: my very best to and you know, I use an app.

661
00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:05,640
Speaker 3: It's like a fitness tracker and calorie and take app.

662
00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:09,000
Speaker 3: And I think I'm probably okay at my weight and

663
00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:11,600
Speaker 3: age to do about twenty five hundred calories a day

664
00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:13,839
Speaker 3: and I'm trying to do two thousand calories a day,

665
00:41:14,080 --> 00:41:16,279
Speaker 3: and a big part of his whole regime is a

666
00:41:16,320 --> 00:41:19,640
Speaker 3: caloric deficit. And anybody that even attempts to do this

667
00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:22,839
Speaker 3: is gonna see some benefit. And if you exercise every day,

668
00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:25,320
Speaker 3: even only for fifteen minutes, you're gonna see some benefit

669
00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:27,600
Speaker 3: from that too. I think the issue with this guy

670
00:41:27,719 --> 00:41:30,520
Speaker 3: is he's just going so hard in the paint and

671
00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:33,080
Speaker 3: like claiming that it's just he's found the fountain of youth.

672
00:41:33,160 --> 00:41:35,680
Speaker 3: But really the stuff that's working is the basic stuff

673
00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:39,040
Speaker 3: that anyone can afford or do. Yeah.

674
00:41:39,600 --> 00:41:45,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, And here's the thing. This technology is on the way.

675
00:41:45,239 --> 00:41:48,120
Speaker 1: How will it scale, how will it roll out? What

676
00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:50,880
Speaker 1: will the measurable benefits be?

677
00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:52,040
Speaker 3: Unknown?

678
00:41:52,440 --> 00:41:56,440
Speaker 1: But modern vamporism is going to be a thing. The

679
00:41:56,560 --> 00:42:01,839
Speaker 1: stakes are simply too high. Haha, No, apologies, it's yeah.

680
00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:06,720
Speaker 1: It appears that within your lifetime, folks, as you listen tonight,

681
00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:10,839
Speaker 1: vampires are going to be real. And we didn't have

682
00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:13,960
Speaker 1: that on the Bingo car. But you know, yolo or

683
00:42:14,080 --> 00:42:17,560
Speaker 1: do yolo? Do you only live once? That takes us

684
00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:21,520
Speaker 1: to the other strange field of research. Organ transplants. Ah.

685
00:42:23,719 --> 00:42:28,160
Speaker 4: I thought you're gonna say reincarnation and yay, But like

686
00:42:28,239 --> 00:42:31,560
Speaker 4: the Bible is full of stories that are like pre vampire,

687
00:42:31,680 --> 00:42:34,760
Speaker 4: Like Methuselah is kind of almost like a pre vampire story.

688
00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:38,040
Speaker 3: And the fact that like vampire stories have existed in

689
00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:42,120
Speaker 3: culture and storytelling for so long shows that it's it's

690
00:42:42,120 --> 00:42:45,040
Speaker 3: a point of fascination and that it's something that people

691
00:42:45,080 --> 00:42:47,920
Speaker 3: have been thinking about for a really long time. And

692
00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:50,759
Speaker 3: the idea of blood of the virgin, all of that

693
00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:54,080
Speaker 3: kind of stuff, it doesn't stop. One of the videos

694
00:42:54,080 --> 00:42:56,040
Speaker 3: that I think, I say, you guys, was talking about

695
00:42:56,040 --> 00:42:57,719
Speaker 3: some history of this kind of thing, and like, I

696
00:42:57,719 --> 00:43:02,680
Speaker 3: think Cleopatra bathed in boiled donkey's milk. That sounds gross,

697
00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:06,320
Speaker 3: but somebody you know, said that it was a good idea,

698
00:43:06,480 --> 00:43:08,960
Speaker 3: and so she was like, sure, yolo, let's do it.

699
00:43:09,080 --> 00:43:11,479
Speaker 2: Well, it would have been fresh, but it's really tough

700
00:43:11,480 --> 00:43:13,560
Speaker 2: to get that much donkey milk. So I think the.

701
00:43:15,160 --> 00:43:20,239
Speaker 1: Little Fellows donkey milk, Yeah you want some? Okay, Yeah,

702
00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:22,080
Speaker 1: all right, let's we'll finish the show.

703
00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:23,359
Speaker 3: Let's take it a step further.

704
00:43:23,480 --> 00:43:29,480
Speaker 1: Ground up donkey teeth, oh, I mean, because you can

705
00:43:29,520 --> 00:43:31,439
Speaker 1: grind him up at home. I can get you a guy,

706
00:43:31,560 --> 00:43:33,760
Speaker 1: but it's going to be more expensive if they grind

707
00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:34,200
Speaker 1: it for you.

708
00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:38,040
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, I've got a more pestle. I'm good. Okay, cool, cool,

709
00:43:38,120 --> 00:43:39,160
Speaker 3: I've got a ninja.

710
00:43:39,239 --> 00:43:43,200
Speaker 1: You know we're keeping this all in so Oregon. Transplants

711
00:43:43,800 --> 00:43:48,319
Speaker 1: are necessary, right, especially if you need one to live,

712
00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:52,879
Speaker 1: but they're also tremendously controversial. Check out our earlier episodes

713
00:43:52,960 --> 00:43:55,640
Speaker 1: on things like the red Market. It has been a

714
00:43:55,640 --> 00:43:59,239
Speaker 1: bloody uncertain endeavor for a long long time. This may

715
00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:03,800
Speaker 1: not be the case for much longer. In the near future. You, yes, you,

716
00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:07,839
Speaker 1: fellow conspiracy realist, may be able to replace any number

717
00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:10,839
Speaker 1: of physical components so long as you can pay that

718
00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:14,200
Speaker 1: Butcher's bill. And I don't just mean pay in terms

719
00:44:14,200 --> 00:44:17,040
Speaker 1: of finance, I mean so long as you can square

720
00:44:17,080 --> 00:44:21,520
Speaker 1: yourself ethically with what might be going down. It's like,

721
00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:26,040
Speaker 1: you know, the official waiting list for organ transplants terrible,

722
00:44:26,120 --> 00:44:30,440
Speaker 1: incredibly long. Every single year in the US alone, a

723
00:44:30,680 --> 00:44:34,360
Speaker 1: minimum of seventeen people die on the list. They're not

724
00:44:34,520 --> 00:44:37,239
Speaker 1: bad people, you know what I mean. They didn't do

725
00:44:37,560 --> 00:44:41,840
Speaker 1: evil stuff. They probably lived a pretty healthy life. But

726
00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:45,200
Speaker 1: they will die in line for that heart that kidney,

727
00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:48,160
Speaker 1: that pancreas you name it. And this lack of supply,

728
00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:52,719
Speaker 1: this growing demand creates this underground organ trade network, a

729
00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:55,799
Speaker 1: pay to play system. You can skip the line, just

730
00:44:55,840 --> 00:44:58,239
Speaker 1: like if you pay extra at Disney World. You get

731
00:44:58,280 --> 00:45:01,319
Speaker 1: a new lease on life, as long as you don't

732
00:45:01,320 --> 00:45:03,880
Speaker 1: ask stupid questions, you know what I mean? Like is

733
00:45:03,920 --> 00:45:06,040
Speaker 1: this a weaker heart? Never ask?

734
00:45:06,600 --> 00:45:09,399
Speaker 3: Oh jeez yeah, and you never know, like in terms

735
00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:12,480
Speaker 3: of all the qualifications that it takes to even get

736
00:45:12,520 --> 00:45:14,440
Speaker 3: on that list, like you can't have been a smoker,

737
00:45:14,560 --> 00:45:16,319
Speaker 3: you can't have had this, this, that and the other.

738
00:45:16,640 --> 00:45:18,840
Speaker 3: But maybe some of the people with all that money

739
00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:22,880
Speaker 3: and pull smoked fifty kohimas a day and they still

740
00:45:22,960 --> 00:45:26,560
Speaker 3: get that lung transplant, you know, or that's it's a cigar.

741
00:45:26,680 --> 00:45:30,520
Speaker 1: It's a cigar. Yeah, So this I got you. And

742
00:45:30,760 --> 00:45:32,040
Speaker 1: that's a way to illustrate it.

743
00:45:32,120 --> 00:45:32,319
Speaker 3: Right.

744
00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:36,960
Speaker 1: So the issue is very real. This may be changing

745
00:45:37,040 --> 00:45:41,920
Speaker 1: because quite recently some scientists over at Harvard made a

746
00:45:41,960 --> 00:45:45,560
Speaker 1: stunning announcement they had transplanted a kidney from a pig

747
00:45:46,040 --> 00:45:50,120
Speaker 1: into a monkey, and despite the vast genetic differences, that

748
00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:53,919
Speaker 1: monkey lived for two years. After that, if you think

749
00:45:53,920 --> 00:45:57,359
Speaker 1: about it in the world of folklore myth. They made

750
00:45:57,360 --> 00:46:01,719
Speaker 1: a chimera. And sure that sounds a little pretentious. We

751
00:46:01,800 --> 00:46:05,839
Speaker 1: get it, we're nerds. But uh, if you think that's pretentious,

752
00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:09,040
Speaker 1: just wait for the official term of this science, which

753
00:46:09,080 --> 00:46:09,920
Speaker 1: is even weirder.

754
00:46:10,320 --> 00:46:18,120
Speaker 2: The name is zeno transplantation, zeno morph zeno transplantation.

755
00:46:18,320 --> 00:46:21,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know what sort of math rock album is

756
00:46:21,800 --> 00:46:22,240
Speaker 1: that from?

757
00:46:22,520 --> 00:46:26,120
Speaker 3: Yeah? Hr Giger did their? Did their like pitch Deck?

758
00:46:27,040 --> 00:46:29,879
Speaker 3: So I have a quick question though, Ben, you said

759
00:46:29,920 --> 00:46:33,640
Speaker 3: two years. You know, obviously animals have a shorter lifespan

760
00:46:33,719 --> 00:46:38,200
Speaker 3: in general, but I think apes have a similar lifespan

761
00:46:38,280 --> 00:46:41,480
Speaker 3: to humans. So what broke down after two years? Two

762
00:46:41,520 --> 00:46:45,120
Speaker 3: years seems like a minor win, but not a major win.

763
00:46:45,520 --> 00:46:49,160
Speaker 1: Oh, it's very much a major win. Okay, yeah, yeah,

764
00:46:49,200 --> 00:46:52,480
Speaker 1: And the only reason it worked, yeah, it's not. It's like,

765
00:46:53,160 --> 00:46:56,680
Speaker 1: you know, when the Bright Brothers flew the first mechanically

766
00:46:56,760 --> 00:47:00,319
Speaker 1: powered aircraft, they didn't get to Tokyo and one go,

767
00:47:00,640 --> 00:47:02,520
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. So this is like a

768
00:47:02,680 --> 00:47:07,239
Speaker 1: first flight, a proof of concept. And that monkey, by

769
00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:10,239
Speaker 1: the way, the only reason it lived for as long

770
00:47:10,280 --> 00:47:14,360
Speaker 1: as it did is because this was not an ordinary pig.

771
00:47:15,000 --> 00:47:20,719
Speaker 1: This pig was grown specifically to be sacrificed, and a

772
00:47:20,800 --> 00:47:27,160
Speaker 1: company named e Genesis leveraged the incredibly dangerous and fascinating

773
00:47:27,200 --> 00:47:34,800
Speaker 1: technology Crisper. E Genesis altered this pig's genome at least

774
00:47:34,840 --> 00:47:38,720
Speaker 1: sixty nine times, and again to our earlier our earlier

775
00:47:38,760 --> 00:47:42,000
Speaker 1: comparison about you know, a bank of light switches and

776
00:47:42,080 --> 00:47:45,120
Speaker 1: you don't know what else they're affecting in the house,

777
00:47:46,040 --> 00:47:48,879
Speaker 1: We don't know. Two years is actually really good. It's

778
00:47:48,920 --> 00:47:54,719
Speaker 1: really impressive, especially when you consider that a little bit

779
00:47:54,760 --> 00:47:59,880
Speaker 1: before this, two separate research institutions took brain dead humans

780
00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:06,600
Speaker 1: and they put genetically modified pig kidneys into those bodies

781
00:48:07,239 --> 00:48:10,320
Speaker 1: just you know, beat me here, Paul, just to around

782
00:48:10,320 --> 00:48:11,759
Speaker 1: and find out right.

783
00:48:12,040 --> 00:48:14,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, because they just wanted to see if the

784
00:48:15,239 --> 00:48:17,600
Speaker 2: kidney would take right, That was the whole point.

785
00:48:17,640 --> 00:48:19,560
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, exactly, for the love of the game.

786
00:48:20,160 --> 00:48:21,560
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, yeah. Yeah.

787
00:48:21,600 --> 00:48:24,480
Speaker 2: So but there's there's other stuff going on too that's

788
00:48:24,640 --> 00:48:26,719
Speaker 2: been highlighted a couple of places, And I just want

789
00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:29,080
Speaker 2: to shout this person out because I think there's something here.

790
00:48:29,160 --> 00:48:29,600
Speaker 3: You guys.

791
00:48:30,360 --> 00:48:37,040
Speaker 2: It's doctor Doris Taylor, and she works at Regenerative Medicine Research.

792
00:48:37,200 --> 00:48:39,560
Speaker 2: That's the name of it. It's in I think Houston,

793
00:48:39,640 --> 00:48:45,000
Speaker 2: Texas where she's working. But they're creating lab grown human organs.

794
00:48:45,760 --> 00:48:48,760
Speaker 2: So what they do Ben is they'll take a pig

795
00:48:48,800 --> 00:48:52,440
Speaker 2: heart and remove all the blood all of the cells

796
00:48:52,440 --> 00:48:54,799
Speaker 2: that make that a pig heart, and what you end

797
00:48:54,880 --> 00:48:58,759
Speaker 2: up having is this translucently white looking thing that is

798
00:48:58,800 --> 00:49:01,080
Speaker 2: a heart. Then and you will put it in a

799
00:49:01,120 --> 00:49:05,279
Speaker 2: bath basically of human cells, like cultured human cells. Then

800
00:49:05,320 --> 00:49:09,719
Speaker 2: those human cells developed, they develop around the heart. They're

801
00:49:09,800 --> 00:49:13,360
Speaker 2: stem cells, right, so they create they match their environment,

802
00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:14,319
Speaker 2: or they're very good at that.

803
00:49:14,560 --> 00:49:16,040
Speaker 1: I'm so glad you're mentioning this.

804
00:49:16,160 --> 00:49:18,560
Speaker 2: Yes, wait that that to me is incredible because it

805
00:49:18,600 --> 00:49:21,080
Speaker 2: matches up with what we're talking about here. If we

806
00:49:21,160 --> 00:49:26,200
Speaker 2: can really hone this science, we could potentially just create

807
00:49:26,719 --> 00:49:29,760
Speaker 2: Ben's new heart if we wanted to, with a couple

808
00:49:29,760 --> 00:49:33,600
Speaker 2: of Ben's cultures, right, if we if we had a

809
00:49:33,600 --> 00:49:35,839
Speaker 2: a pig heart or something that could go along with it,

810
00:49:36,160 --> 00:49:39,280
Speaker 2: or Matt's new liver, like that would be amazing.

811
00:49:39,920 --> 00:49:40,279
Speaker 3: I don't know.

812
00:49:40,320 --> 00:49:42,200
Speaker 2: I think I think that's that's at least one of

813
00:49:42,239 --> 00:49:44,759
Speaker 2: the stepping stones toward what we're what we're trying to

814
00:49:44,800 --> 00:49:45,200
Speaker 2: get towards.

815
00:49:45,320 --> 00:49:47,880
Speaker 3: Just so, yes, for sure, but also speaking about like

816
00:49:48,000 --> 00:49:51,359
Speaker 3: the story telling aspect of this and vampirism, there's also

817
00:49:51,440 --> 00:49:55,560
Speaker 3: Frankenstein and Frankenstein's monster and the idea of going against

818
00:49:55,640 --> 00:49:59,920
Speaker 3: God and how inevitably nothing but bad things will come

819
00:50:00,120 --> 00:50:01,880
Speaker 3: of that. And I'm not saying I believe that, but

820
00:50:01,920 --> 00:50:04,480
Speaker 3: I think there are those that do, and we know

821
00:50:04,560 --> 00:50:08,319
Speaker 3: that unchecked this kind of stuff, especially when it's all

822
00:50:08,360 --> 00:50:11,920
Speaker 3: in the service of of money, it can be very scary.

823
00:50:12,040 --> 00:50:15,040
Speaker 3: It can really go into dangerous territories.

824
00:50:15,400 --> 00:50:19,200
Speaker 1: I'm glad you mentioned checks and balances. To be absolutely clear,

825
00:50:20,520 --> 00:50:24,719
Speaker 1: The only real check, the only real balance on this

826
00:50:25,480 --> 00:50:28,520
Speaker 1: is going to be the.

827
00:50:27,520 --> 00:50:28,759
Speaker 2: The one the doctor takes home.

828
00:50:28,840 --> 00:50:36,919
Speaker 1: Sorry, well, the pay to play system of late stage capitalism, right,

829
00:50:37,600 --> 00:50:41,879
Speaker 1: and a distant second check. The only other real one

830
00:50:42,400 --> 00:50:48,200
Speaker 1: is human kinds level of self regard for what it

831
00:50:48,239 --> 00:50:51,960
Speaker 1: sees as ethics, ethics. If those if those two things

832
00:50:52,000 --> 00:50:55,919
Speaker 1: did not exist, then you could have your pig heart

833
00:50:56,040 --> 00:50:58,480
Speaker 1: your pig liver, right now, you know what I mean.

834
00:50:58,960 --> 00:51:02,359
Speaker 1: But but of course, uh, there is a legacy there.

835
00:51:02,520 --> 00:51:06,200
Speaker 1: There are several legacy systems in play which are kind

836
00:51:06,200 --> 00:51:09,680
Speaker 1: of I don't want to say, stymying the research, but

837
00:51:09,840 --> 00:51:12,680
Speaker 1: they're making it. You know, they're making what could have

838
00:51:12,719 --> 00:51:16,120
Speaker 1: been a two hour movie, a summer long TV show.

839
00:51:16,560 --> 00:51:20,520
Speaker 3: But but no, I say lagging because these legacy you know,

840
00:51:21,120 --> 00:51:24,760
Speaker 3: checks and balances. As we always say, the technology always

841
00:51:24,960 --> 00:51:28,480
Speaker 3: far exceeds some of these legacy you know, oversights that

842
00:51:28,520 --> 00:51:31,239
Speaker 3: are in place. So and when you're a company that

843
00:51:31,400 --> 00:51:34,400
Speaker 3: has the pull, you know, whether it be with lobbies

844
00:51:34,520 --> 00:51:37,280
Speaker 3: or whatever it might be, there are ways around this stuff.

845
00:51:37,280 --> 00:51:38,400
Speaker 3: We know that that happens.

846
00:51:38,640 --> 00:51:41,640
Speaker 1: Also, the people in power in this iteration of the

847
00:51:41,880 --> 00:51:46,239
Speaker 1: of human civilization tend to be pretty old, so they

848
00:51:46,280 --> 00:51:48,480
Speaker 1: are therefore incentivized, you.

849
00:51:48,520 --> 00:51:49,120
Speaker 3: Know what I mean.

850
00:51:49,480 --> 00:51:52,920
Speaker 1: Like Mitch McConnell's probably saying, hmm, once I get that

851
00:51:53,040 --> 00:51:56,160
Speaker 1: new ticker, it's gonna be a whole new Mitch baby,

852
00:51:57,000 --> 00:51:57,839
Speaker 1: So the uh.

853
00:51:58,000 --> 00:51:59,759
Speaker 3: Not be funny if Mitch just showed up one day

854
00:51:59,880 --> 00:52:04,319
Speaker 3: was at the fonds, just like just totally like leather jacket.

855
00:52:04,840 --> 00:52:10,520
Speaker 1: It's for some reason, Yeah, humanity is not there yet.

856
00:52:10,600 --> 00:52:13,560
Speaker 1: There is a world in which you could have a

857
00:52:14,040 --> 00:52:20,960
Speaker 1: pig grown specifically bespoke donor for you, and all you

858
00:52:21,040 --> 00:52:23,520
Speaker 1: have to do to get these custom made organs is

859
00:52:23,600 --> 00:52:26,040
Speaker 1: to somehow be able to pay for it.

860
00:52:26,120 --> 00:52:28,759
Speaker 3: Ben It also reminds me of like something that I

861
00:52:28,760 --> 00:52:31,200
Speaker 3: guess hasn't been reported as much about lately because maybe

862
00:52:31,200 --> 00:52:34,480
Speaker 3: it's old hat, but like those rats or mice that

863
00:52:34,560 --> 00:52:37,640
Speaker 3: they could grow a human ear. One like stuff like that,

864
00:52:37,920 --> 00:52:41,680
Speaker 3: where it's very single use, single purpose, you know, and

865
00:52:41,760 --> 00:52:43,920
Speaker 3: like these types of pigs you're talking about, you'd obviously

866
00:52:43,960 --> 00:52:47,680
Speaker 3: have to you know, contribute some of your genetic material

867
00:52:47,840 --> 00:52:50,440
Speaker 3: and then here's the guy that's going to grow the

868
00:52:50,480 --> 00:52:51,879
Speaker 3: thing that's going to be just for you.

869
00:52:52,400 --> 00:52:56,719
Speaker 1: The primary barrier to this research is not ethics. The

870
00:52:56,760 --> 00:53:00,960
Speaker 1: primary barrier is late stage capitalism. Money is a religion

871
00:53:01,560 --> 00:53:05,480
Speaker 1: and it's not the root of all evil, but you know,

872
00:53:05,840 --> 00:53:10,879
Speaker 1: it's unnecessarily complicating progress, is what I'm thinking. I mean,

873
00:53:11,040 --> 00:53:15,600
Speaker 1: there's this idea, right that you could, all things being equal,

874
00:53:15,640 --> 00:53:21,800
Speaker 1: if this research continues, one could have a new organ

875
00:53:22,480 --> 00:53:25,800
Speaker 1: as like a pay to play, real and really expensive option.

876
00:53:26,200 --> 00:53:30,280
Speaker 1: You know, imagine a world in which anyone with enough

877
00:53:30,520 --> 00:53:34,680
Speaker 1: financial liquidity can start treating their body like a vehicle.

878
00:53:34,840 --> 00:53:38,000
Speaker 1: I'm keeping the car analogy. You know, instead of a

879
00:53:38,160 --> 00:53:42,040
Speaker 1: harrowing life or death, get right with God moment when

880
00:53:42,080 --> 00:53:46,200
Speaker 1: you need a new liver, it becomes something like changing

881
00:53:46,280 --> 00:53:50,880
Speaker 1: your oil. Nah, I gotta go replace the break pads

882
00:53:52,040 --> 00:53:57,360
Speaker 1: with my nephrologist. I need a new kidney or something.

883
00:53:58,480 --> 00:54:00,640
Speaker 3: But we also know plenty of people that can maybe

884
00:54:00,680 --> 00:54:02,759
Speaker 3: afford to change the oil in their car, but then

885
00:54:02,800 --> 00:54:05,680
Speaker 3: if the breaks go bad, they're like screwed. I can't

886
00:54:05,719 --> 00:54:07,879
Speaker 3: afford a break job, or I can't afford a new

887
00:54:07,880 --> 00:54:11,960
Speaker 3: transmission or whatever it might be. And that cyberpunk game

888
00:54:11,960 --> 00:54:14,360
Speaker 3: I was talking about earlier, there's a thing in it

889
00:54:14,400 --> 00:54:18,640
Speaker 3: where like there are these, you know, medical vehicles that

890
00:54:18,680 --> 00:54:22,440
Speaker 3: swoop in anytime someone gets hurt, but only if they

891
00:54:22,800 --> 00:54:26,279
Speaker 3: are rich enough to be in the system to be

892
00:54:26,920 --> 00:54:30,000
Speaker 3: taken care of. Like there's a scene, there's actually a

893
00:54:30,000 --> 00:54:33,480
Speaker 3: really good anime cyberpunk thing where this kid and his

894
00:54:33,560 --> 00:54:35,640
Speaker 3: mom get into a bad car accident and the med

895
00:54:36,040 --> 00:54:38,880
Speaker 3: team comes and they scan them like nope, he doesn't

896
00:54:38,920 --> 00:54:41,400
Speaker 3: have the bright plan, and they just leave them to die.

897
00:54:41,760 --> 00:54:43,960
Speaker 3: You know. I mean to your point about capitalism, that

898
00:54:44,120 --> 00:54:47,160
Speaker 3: is what that yields is the haves and have nots,

899
00:54:47,200 --> 00:54:50,120
Speaker 3: the tiered service of it all. Yeah.

900
00:54:50,360 --> 00:54:54,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, And there's the issue here as well. None of

901
00:54:54,160 --> 00:54:59,160
Speaker 1: these solutions fix the third problem, durable cognition.

902
00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:00,640
Speaker 3: That is the key.

903
00:55:01,080 --> 00:55:06,440
Speaker 1: Over time, without intervention, the human brain will inevitably degrade

904
00:55:06,920 --> 00:55:12,440
Speaker 1: because it is it's just more meat, it's organic. The

905
00:55:12,520 --> 00:55:17,600
Speaker 1: mind comes to dementia, Alzheimer's. All the cool hits, all

906
00:55:17,640 --> 00:55:20,960
Speaker 1: the slow jazz at, everything that makes you the you

907
00:55:21,800 --> 00:55:25,440
Speaker 1: is lost. And that ship of thesis might behave like

908
00:55:25,480 --> 00:55:28,720
Speaker 1: a brand new body. But what's the use if there's

909
00:55:28,920 --> 00:55:31,440
Speaker 1: no one at the wheel. How do we solve this

910
00:55:31,520 --> 00:55:41,480
Speaker 1: third problem? We'll tell you after a word from our sponsors. Okay,

911
00:55:41,800 --> 00:55:44,200
Speaker 1: side note, we promised it in the beginning, and we

912
00:55:44,239 --> 00:55:47,799
Speaker 1: know we're going long here. Our original off air conversation

913
00:55:47,960 --> 00:55:52,080
Speaker 1: about organ transplants that inspired us to pursue this update.

914
00:55:52,600 --> 00:55:59,080
Speaker 1: We were surprised to discover multiple cases of something spooky.

915
00:55:59,200 --> 00:56:02,080
Speaker 1: It turns out there's non zero amount of people who

916
00:56:02,120 --> 00:56:06,759
Speaker 1: receive organ transplants and then become certain they have additionally

917
00:56:06,840 --> 00:56:12,200
Speaker 1: received a piece of the donor's personality, preferences, phobias, habits,

918
00:56:12,520 --> 00:56:13,960
Speaker 1: software of the soul.

919
00:56:14,239 --> 00:56:17,880
Speaker 3: That's the playing god part. That's the part where it

920
00:56:17,920 --> 00:56:20,439
Speaker 3: all goes. You know you can't, I mean, hell man,

921
00:56:20,840 --> 00:56:23,560
Speaker 3: it happens with computers. You do an update and all

922
00:56:23,560 --> 00:56:25,680
Speaker 3: of a sudden, some of your stuff doesn't work because

923
00:56:25,719 --> 00:56:28,840
Speaker 3: it hasn't been updated to match the update for the

924
00:56:28,880 --> 00:56:33,400
Speaker 3: operating system. I mean, I think it's a relatively reasonable analog.

925
00:56:33,960 --> 00:56:36,640
Speaker 3: But with humans, it's like we don't really know. They

926
00:56:36,640 --> 00:56:40,480
Speaker 3: don't even know someone has Alzheimer's unequivocally until they do

927
00:56:40,520 --> 00:56:42,160
Speaker 3: an autopsy on the brain after that.

928
00:56:42,280 --> 00:56:46,840
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, good point. This idea that human beings could

929
00:56:46,840 --> 00:56:52,680
Speaker 1: be to some degree emulating the plenarian the flatworm. This

930
00:56:52,800 --> 00:56:56,600
Speaker 1: leads us to something called cellular memory theory, the idea

931
00:56:56,680 --> 00:57:00,480
Speaker 1: that quote, behaviors and emotions acquired by the recipient from

932
00:57:00,560 --> 00:57:05,239
Speaker 1: the original donor are due to combinatorial memories stored in

933
00:57:05,320 --> 00:57:12,480
Speaker 1: the neurons of the organ donated. Very Stephen King sounding, right, dude,

934
00:57:13,440 --> 00:57:17,720
Speaker 1: So okay, this is one example. It's pretty crusive. This

935
00:57:17,760 --> 00:57:19,680
Speaker 1: is what we were talking about off air. Wanted to

936
00:57:19,720 --> 00:57:22,560
Speaker 1: share it with you fellow listeners. Back in nineteen ninety six,

937
00:57:23,000 --> 00:57:26,520
Speaker 1: this guy in Vidalia, Georgia, his name Sonny Graham. He

938
00:57:26,560 --> 00:57:30,760
Speaker 1: gets a heart transplant, amazing saves his life. He gets

939
00:57:30,800 --> 00:57:34,560
Speaker 1: this heart from a guy he's never met named Terry Cottle.

940
00:57:35,040 --> 00:57:39,880
Speaker 1: Terry Cottle commits suicide when he's only thirty three years old,

941
00:57:40,080 --> 00:57:42,160
Speaker 1: which for a lot of us in our twenties we

942
00:57:42,320 --> 00:57:45,439
Speaker 1: get that saying only thirty three sounds like a well

943
00:57:45,480 --> 00:57:46,280
Speaker 1: lived life.

944
00:57:46,360 --> 00:57:46,760
Speaker 3: It is not.

945
00:57:46,960 --> 00:57:49,760
Speaker 1: It's a very short life. He took his life with

946
00:57:49,800 --> 00:57:55,240
Speaker 1: a firearm. Sonny Graham gets the heart. Sonny Graham is

947
00:57:55,720 --> 00:57:58,640
Speaker 1: over the moon. Right, He's alive. He didn't expect to be,

948
00:57:59,080 --> 00:58:01,160
Speaker 1: and so he does what I think we could agree

949
00:58:01,280 --> 00:58:04,600
Speaker 1: is the right thing. He begins a correspondence with Coddle's family.

950
00:58:05,160 --> 00:58:07,520
Speaker 1: You know, Coddle was a father, a husband, et cetera.

951
00:58:07,640 --> 00:58:09,960
Speaker 1: He had his own life. So this guy, Sonny is

952
00:58:10,000 --> 00:58:15,440
Speaker 1: writing to the Caddle family and in January of nineteen

953
00:58:15,520 --> 00:58:18,680
Speaker 1: ninety seven, he meets the widow of the guy who

954
00:58:18,720 --> 00:58:21,880
Speaker 1: saved his life. She's a lady named Cheryl Cottle. She's

955
00:58:21,920 --> 00:58:24,680
Speaker 1: twenty eight years old at the time. She lives in Charleston,

956
00:58:26,640 --> 00:58:28,040
Speaker 1: and they strike up a romance.

957
00:58:28,760 --> 00:58:34,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, trauma bonding. I mean, that's perhaps okay, who am

958
00:58:34,520 --> 00:58:36,040
Speaker 3: I to? Who am I to? Saying? You know, but

959
00:58:36,080 --> 00:58:40,440
Speaker 3: it's interesting. Where the story goes is beyond fascinating. But

960
00:58:40,440 --> 00:58:43,360
Speaker 3: it also there are other aspects of it that could

961
00:58:43,800 --> 00:58:47,160
Speaker 3: make it not what the spooky thing is. But the

962
00:58:47,200 --> 00:58:52,240
Speaker 3: spooky thing is it feels front center. I have to say, yeah.

963
00:58:51,960 --> 00:58:56,240
Speaker 1: He marries Caddle's widow, and then several years later, on

964
00:58:56,280 --> 00:58:59,640
Speaker 1: April first, two thousand and eight, Sonny Graham takes his

965
00:58:59,640 --> 00:59:03,000
Speaker 1: own life life with a firearm.

966
00:59:04,200 --> 00:59:06,760
Speaker 3: And it's my understanding that people that knew him said

967
00:59:06,800 --> 00:59:11,480
Speaker 3: he never exhibited any signs of depression or mental illness.

968
00:59:11,400 --> 00:59:16,120
Speaker 1: None whatsoever. Apparently, but this sounds like a macp campfire story.

969
00:59:16,720 --> 00:59:19,120
Speaker 2: And it happened on April Fool's Day.

970
00:59:19,000 --> 00:59:20,800
Speaker 1: And it happened on a fool's day.

971
00:59:21,000 --> 00:59:24,160
Speaker 3: Wait, surely we know that this is true.

972
00:59:24,160 --> 00:59:26,840
Speaker 1: Though, I mean this is true that is when, that

973
00:59:27,000 --> 00:59:30,360
Speaker 1: is when he took his own life and therefore arguably

974
00:59:30,520 --> 00:59:33,040
Speaker 1: the life of or some remnant of the life of

975
00:59:33,120 --> 00:59:38,920
Speaker 1: Terry Cottle. The thing is that there it sounds spooky.

976
00:59:38,960 --> 00:59:42,360
Speaker 1: It's a MACP campfire story. Ha haa, we're all scared

977
00:59:42,400 --> 00:59:47,080
Speaker 1: October whatever. But several studies indicate there may be some

978
00:59:47,160 --> 00:59:51,280
Speaker 1: sort of let's call it, persistence of the mind within

979
00:59:51,360 --> 00:59:52,520
Speaker 1: the donated organs.

980
00:59:52,640 --> 00:59:55,160
Speaker 3: But are we talking about the soul? Are we talking

981
00:59:55,200 --> 00:59:58,080
Speaker 3: about remnants of the soul in a piece of meat

982
00:59:58,400 --> 01:00:02,000
Speaker 3: that is then reconstituted and connected to somebody else's system

983
01:00:02,680 --> 01:00:05,920
Speaker 3: like some people say my heart, I love you with

984
01:00:06,160 --> 01:00:09,040
Speaker 3: all my heart. Like, I think that's irrelevant. They could

985
01:00:09,040 --> 01:00:11,960
Speaker 3: just likely be in your liver. But the heart, man,

986
01:00:12,040 --> 01:00:15,919
Speaker 3: that's the central clock of your entire existence. You know.

987
01:00:16,200 --> 01:00:19,400
Speaker 1: There's a journal called Quality of Life Research, and in

988
01:00:19,440 --> 01:00:23,800
Speaker 1: this you can read a study where researchers interviewed forty

989
01:00:23,840 --> 01:00:27,920
Speaker 1: seven different patients, each of whom received a heart transplant

990
01:00:28,160 --> 01:00:31,840
Speaker 1: over a window of two years in Vienna. They found

991
01:00:31,840 --> 01:00:35,160
Speaker 1: that seventy nine percent of the folks they interviewed didn't

992
01:00:35,200 --> 01:00:39,720
Speaker 1: feel their personality had changed. Fifteen percent felt that they

993
01:00:39,840 --> 01:00:42,880
Speaker 1: had some sort of change, and they just thought it

994
01:00:42,920 --> 01:00:46,040
Speaker 1: was because it was a milestone. They almost died, right

995
01:00:46,160 --> 01:00:48,880
Speaker 1: of course, like someone with a near death experience, you're

996
01:00:48,920 --> 01:00:52,480
Speaker 1: going to be different. Six percent, though, did confirm they

997
01:00:52,480 --> 01:00:55,600
Speaker 1: had a drastic change in their personality, and they said,

998
01:00:55,680 --> 01:01:00,960
Speaker 1: do entirely to this piece of a different person existing

999
01:01:01,040 --> 01:01:04,640
Speaker 1: inside them. I mean, caveat emptor let the buyer beware.

1000
01:01:04,880 --> 01:01:06,959
Speaker 1: You might get more than a new hunk of meat.

1001
01:01:07,080 --> 01:01:09,440
Speaker 1: You know, if some of these scientists are correct, you

1002
01:01:09,520 --> 01:01:12,880
Speaker 1: might be carrying, like a plenarian, a tiny bit of

1003
01:01:12,920 --> 01:01:15,800
Speaker 1: someone else's source code with you, which brings us to

1004
01:01:15,880 --> 01:01:20,600
Speaker 1: of course we're target source code, digital immortality. This is

1005
01:01:20,640 --> 01:01:22,760
Speaker 1: the one that's gonna happen. This is the one that's

1006
01:01:22,800 --> 01:01:25,120
Speaker 1: going to like, this is the one that's gonna happen

1007
01:01:25,200 --> 01:01:27,920
Speaker 1: and be stuff they don't want you to know until

1008
01:01:28,120 --> 01:01:29,840
Speaker 1: a huge watershed moment.

1009
01:01:30,400 --> 01:01:34,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, there was actually a Duncan Jones film called source Code,

1010
01:01:35,520 --> 01:01:38,400
Speaker 3: David Bowie's son who he directed the Warcraft movie but

1011
01:01:38,400 --> 01:01:42,640
Speaker 3: that's not his moon he did with Sam Brockwell, and

1012
01:01:42,680 --> 01:01:45,280
Speaker 3: then source Code with Jake Gillenhall, and it's all about

1013
01:01:45,280 --> 01:01:47,560
Speaker 3: this kind of stuff. But also there's an episode of

1014
01:01:47,560 --> 01:01:51,280
Speaker 3: Black Mirror where a woman tragically loses her husband in

1015
01:01:51,320 --> 01:01:54,320
Speaker 3: an accident. And then there's this thing where you can

1016
01:01:54,400 --> 01:01:58,520
Speaker 3: get this like stand in surrogate version that you have

1017
01:01:58,560 --> 01:02:00,960
Speaker 3: to grow in the bathtub, and then you upload all

1018
01:02:01,000 --> 01:02:04,200
Speaker 3: of their Facebook and social media and it becomes a

1019
01:02:04,280 --> 01:02:08,080
Speaker 3: passable version of the person. But of course the twist,

1020
01:02:08,520 --> 01:02:10,600
Speaker 3: not really the twist, but is that it's not the person,

1021
01:02:10,760 --> 01:02:13,000
Speaker 3: it's it's a facsimile of the person.

1022
01:02:13,200 --> 01:02:15,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, a good emulation.

1023
01:02:16,440 --> 01:02:16,920
Speaker 3: What is it?

1024
01:02:16,960 --> 01:02:22,600
Speaker 1: Symmacularum similacrum, similacrum. Yes, yes, yes, I still have a

1025
01:02:22,680 --> 01:02:27,040
Speaker 1: rudimentary grasp on English at best, digital immortality. It's the

1026
01:02:27,080 --> 01:02:32,400
Speaker 1: idea that you can It's like music, Okay, so what

1027
01:02:32,600 --> 01:02:36,560
Speaker 1: is a song? Is a song the guitar upon which

1028
01:02:36,600 --> 01:02:39,240
Speaker 1: the song is played? Or is the song the pattern

1029
01:02:39,480 --> 01:02:43,400
Speaker 1: the series of notes? You know. The idea of digital

1030
01:02:43,480 --> 01:02:49,280
Speaker 1: immortality hinges upon the concept of people, the you that

1031
01:02:49,320 --> 01:02:53,200
Speaker 1: you mean when you say you, existing as patterns, as

1032
01:02:53,200 --> 01:02:56,520
Speaker 1: software songs, the idea being that if we gather enough

1033
01:02:56,560 --> 01:03:00,560
Speaker 1: information about a single instance of an individual and funnel

1034
01:03:00,600 --> 01:03:06,600
Speaker 1: that into some large language, near generalized AI model, that

1035
01:03:06,680 --> 01:03:11,120
Speaker 1: the resulting code can respond and react to stimuli in

1036
01:03:11,160 --> 01:03:15,040
Speaker 1: a manner increasingly close to what the responses would have

1037
01:03:15,160 --> 01:03:18,240
Speaker 1: been if that person was still alive. It's heavy stuff.

1038
01:03:18,400 --> 01:03:22,120
Speaker 1: It's no longer impossible. It is being happening right now,

1039
01:03:22,440 --> 01:03:26,280
Speaker 1: and it's really scary. It's traumatic. I imagine, like you know,

1040
01:03:26,360 --> 01:03:29,560
Speaker 1: everybody's lost somebody. Think about it. If you're able to

1041
01:03:29,600 --> 01:03:35,000
Speaker 1: speak with some emulation of your lost spouse, child, parent,

1042
01:03:35,360 --> 01:03:38,880
Speaker 1: close friend, and then you realize at some point in

1043
01:03:38,920 --> 01:03:42,520
Speaker 1: that Turing test that you are just encountering a remix

1044
01:03:42,600 --> 01:03:45,880
Speaker 1: of things they said. I mean, honestly, it's like you know,

1045
01:03:45,960 --> 01:03:47,960
Speaker 1: I mean, would it make you feel more or less

1046
01:03:48,040 --> 01:03:48,840
Speaker 1: lonely is the.

1047
01:03:48,880 --> 01:03:51,400
Speaker 3: More more I think. I think it's you know, I

1048
01:03:51,960 --> 01:03:54,120
Speaker 3: my mother passed a year or so ago, a little more,

1049
01:03:54,120 --> 01:03:58,240
Speaker 3: and I'm very reticent to listen to old voicemails from her.

1050
01:03:58,680 --> 01:04:00,640
Speaker 3: It's like it really hits you in a place. I

1051
01:04:00,640 --> 01:04:03,480
Speaker 3: don't know that I would want this, especially No, maybe

1052
01:04:03,520 --> 01:04:07,200
Speaker 3: like for somebody who isn't, as you know, embedded in

1053
01:04:07,240 --> 01:04:09,000
Speaker 3: this kind of stuff as we are, maybe they would,

1054
01:04:09,280 --> 01:04:12,640
Speaker 3: But to me, it just seems dangerous, especially if it

1055
01:04:12,680 --> 01:04:15,720
Speaker 3: could talk back, you know. I just you could get

1056
01:04:15,720 --> 01:04:18,120
Speaker 3: addicted to that. And that's what the it's called be

1057
01:04:18,240 --> 01:04:22,000
Speaker 3: right back. The Black Mirror episode starring domhol Gleeson is about.

1058
01:04:22,600 --> 01:04:24,240
Speaker 3: It is literally what we're talking about here.

1059
01:04:24,680 --> 01:04:28,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know. I can imagine a good version

1060
01:04:28,080 --> 01:04:31,880
Speaker 2: of it, like imagining just face timing with somebody you

1061
01:04:32,360 --> 01:04:35,480
Speaker 2: care about that you've lost, but getting to feel that, like,

1062
01:04:36,440 --> 01:04:38,920
Speaker 2: you know, just share your day with somebody that you

1063
01:04:39,000 --> 01:04:41,400
Speaker 2: really care about and you care about them caring about you,

1064
01:04:41,480 --> 01:04:43,919
Speaker 2: even if they're not there anymore. I think that could

1065
01:04:44,000 --> 01:04:45,920
Speaker 2: be a positive thing. But I do think you're right,

1066
01:04:46,000 --> 01:04:49,640
Speaker 2: it would be addicting and it wouldn't help you. It

1067
01:04:49,640 --> 01:04:53,200
Speaker 2: wouldn't beneficial. To you with relationships.

1068
01:04:53,720 --> 01:04:56,600
Speaker 1: But what if it's ad supported. I was holding that,

1069
01:04:58,040 --> 01:05:01,120
Speaker 1: you know what, that's a different I love you too.

1070
01:05:01,360 --> 01:05:03,320
Speaker 1: I wish I could have I wish I could have

1071
01:05:03,440 --> 01:05:06,520
Speaker 1: told you this while I was in the hospital. Coding

1072
01:05:06,600 --> 01:05:12,080
Speaker 1: out has a sale right now, so I could have

1073
01:05:12,080 --> 01:05:15,640
Speaker 1: played Royal Match together. You know that would but play

1074
01:05:15,720 --> 01:05:17,520
Speaker 1: Royal Match with your deceased loved ones.

1075
01:05:17,560 --> 01:05:17,880
Speaker 2: All right?

1076
01:05:17,960 --> 01:05:19,560
Speaker 1: I tricked you guys a little bit. That is kind

1077
01:05:19,600 --> 01:05:22,320
Speaker 1: of an evil thing. It is possible because we are

1078
01:05:22,320 --> 01:05:26,240
Speaker 1: in the early days this field of research, this idea.

1079
01:05:27,960 --> 01:05:32,840
Speaker 1: What's most interesting about it is that if it goes well,

1080
01:05:33,560 --> 01:05:38,080
Speaker 1: then this mind would not experience the same organic degradation

1081
01:05:38,840 --> 01:05:43,040
Speaker 1: of a meatball mind. If it does experience a metaphysical

1082
01:05:43,160 --> 01:05:47,920
Speaker 1: version of a malfunction, you can just reboot it like

1083
01:05:48,000 --> 01:05:51,400
Speaker 1: a jellyfish. Start the soul over at the version of

1084
01:05:51,480 --> 01:05:55,640
Speaker 1: last Saved game. A digital answer yes to the turretopsis.

1085
01:05:55,960 --> 01:05:59,960
Speaker 1: And this research has been galvanized by breakthroughs in llms,

1086
01:06:00,200 --> 01:06:05,280
Speaker 1: large language modeling aka street name Chat GPT, rise of

1087
01:06:05,320 --> 01:06:09,960
Speaker 1: deep fakes, increasingly generalized AI models. Something like this is

1088
01:06:10,000 --> 01:06:12,680
Speaker 1: going to happen. We are not too far out from

1089
01:06:12,720 --> 01:06:14,960
Speaker 1: what I would I would like I would propose we

1090
01:06:15,040 --> 01:06:17,120
Speaker 1: call it the emulated human.

1091
01:06:17,280 --> 01:06:20,360
Speaker 3: The Eh, Well, dude, you can use chat GPT to

1092
01:06:20,360 --> 01:06:23,600
Speaker 3: have a conversation with William Shakespeare. What's to prevent you

1093
01:06:23,600 --> 01:06:26,880
Speaker 3: from using chat GPT to have a conversation with your

1094
01:06:26,960 --> 01:06:28,360
Speaker 3: deceased grandmother.

1095
01:06:29,040 --> 01:06:33,040
Speaker 1: Especially considering how much more data there is about people

1096
01:06:33,080 --> 01:06:34,000
Speaker 1: who died recently.

1097
01:06:34,400 --> 01:06:36,800
Speaker 3: That's true, and obviously there's way more data about William

1098
01:06:36,840 --> 01:06:40,680
Speaker 3: Shakespeare and people writing about him and every number of things.

1099
01:06:40,760 --> 01:06:43,680
Speaker 3: But if you there could be a bespoke service where

1100
01:06:43,680 --> 01:06:46,920
Speaker 3: you upload all this stuff to the cloud and then

1101
01:06:47,000 --> 01:06:50,560
Speaker 3: it gives you this like version that we're there. You're right, Ben,

1102
01:06:50,600 --> 01:06:51,360
Speaker 3: we're talking, We're there.

1103
01:06:51,360 --> 01:06:54,560
Speaker 1: Well, well, let's talk about the emulated human. You know,

1104
01:06:54,600 --> 01:06:56,640
Speaker 1: I'm very into this idea. It might be my new

1105
01:06:56,640 --> 01:07:01,600
Speaker 1: beat later, but something that would appear to have the opinions,

1106
01:07:02,000 --> 01:07:06,720
Speaker 1: the imaginations, the fears, the aspirations of that person you knew.

1107
01:07:07,160 --> 01:07:10,520
Speaker 1: Humanity is not prepared for this. What happens when an

1108
01:07:10,520 --> 01:07:15,520
Speaker 1: emulated human gets close enough in terms of fidelity to

1109
01:07:15,880 --> 01:07:21,600
Speaker 1: genuinely passituring test and function as an undead version of

1110
01:07:21,640 --> 01:07:23,880
Speaker 1: that person you loved? Are they going to be able

1111
01:07:23,920 --> 01:07:27,040
Speaker 1: to represent themselves in court, Can they vote? Can they

1112
01:07:27,040 --> 01:07:30,560
Speaker 1: make journey? You know first question Uncle Sam has? Are

1113
01:07:30,600 --> 01:07:33,640
Speaker 1: they going to pay taxes? You know? The other question?

1114
01:07:34,240 --> 01:07:37,040
Speaker 1: What would it be able to demand its own destruction?

1115
01:07:38,040 --> 01:07:40,440
Speaker 3: Right? Like all of these I would I would think

1116
01:07:40,480 --> 01:07:42,800
Speaker 3: all of these things would be laid out in advance.

1117
01:07:42,960 --> 01:07:45,600
Speaker 3: It's like intellectual property at this point, it's not you

1118
01:07:45,640 --> 01:07:48,920
Speaker 3: know what I mean, Like there's different rules about stuff

1119
01:07:48,960 --> 01:07:51,480
Speaker 3: like this, but I don't think that those rules exist yet.

1120
01:07:51,480 --> 01:07:55,160
Speaker 3: I don't think there's any document that has a clause

1121
01:07:55,400 --> 01:07:57,360
Speaker 3: that would address any of this stuff.

1122
01:07:57,640 --> 01:08:03,440
Speaker 2: Shack out Westworld season. There's really interesting like thoughts about

1123
01:08:03,480 --> 01:08:08,120
Speaker 2: this in each season, like IP and individuality and all

1124
01:08:08,400 --> 01:08:10,000
Speaker 2: of these things. It's really really good.

1125
01:08:10,400 --> 01:08:14,560
Speaker 1: And so we know we're running along apologies mission control.

1126
01:08:14,960 --> 01:08:19,000
Speaker 1: We have to ask what happens when an emulated human

1127
01:08:19,080 --> 01:08:21,120
Speaker 1: mind decides it would like a body?

1128
01:08:21,680 --> 01:08:21,960
Speaker 3: Right?

1129
01:08:22,040 --> 01:08:25,559
Speaker 1: Because again, the technology is there, it just hasn't been

1130
01:08:26,280 --> 01:08:30,800
Speaker 1: combined into the correct applicable gestalt, you know what I mean?

1131
01:08:31,080 --> 01:08:34,200
Speaker 1: Like you can three D print, right, lap room meat

1132
01:08:34,280 --> 01:08:35,799
Speaker 1: is on the way, it's just too expensive.

1133
01:08:35,840 --> 01:08:38,559
Speaker 3: Right now, you just hit command Q. You just quit.

1134
01:08:39,200 --> 01:08:42,880
Speaker 3: I don't want to hear this anymore. There's nothing making

1135
01:08:42,920 --> 01:08:46,320
Speaker 3: you have to answer their demands. They're a puppet show

1136
01:08:46,479 --> 01:08:50,639
Speaker 3: for you, right, Like I'm not meaning to be callous.

1137
01:08:50,680 --> 01:08:52,639
Speaker 3: I just mean at a certain point, it's like if

1138
01:08:52,680 --> 01:08:55,280
Speaker 3: all of this stuff, all things being equal, like this

1139
01:08:55,320 --> 01:08:58,599
Speaker 3: is a presentation for your benefit that you're paying for.

1140
01:08:59,040 --> 01:09:02,960
Speaker 3: It is a dance that you are enjoying slash benefiting from.

1141
01:09:03,439 --> 01:09:06,600
Speaker 3: We are not at this point ascribing any agency to

1142
01:09:06,680 --> 01:09:09,519
Speaker 3: these representations. And that's a whole other conversation, you.

1143
01:09:09,479 --> 01:09:12,559
Speaker 1: Know, right, That's what I'm saying of agency, right.

1144
01:09:12,720 --> 01:09:14,439
Speaker 3: But when can they get it? Who gives them that?

1145
01:09:14,800 --> 01:09:21,639
Speaker 1: The lavation innovation is Ussain Bolt legislation is a three

1146
01:09:21,720 --> 01:09:24,799
Speaker 1: year old learning to walk while they're carrying a backpack

1147
01:09:24,840 --> 01:09:26,960
Speaker 1: of bricks, You know what I mean? The race is

1148
01:09:27,040 --> 01:09:30,280
Speaker 1: pretty predictable. We do want to make a moment before

1149
01:09:30,280 --> 01:09:34,200
Speaker 1: we close to talk about other life extension products, procedures, tactics,

1150
01:09:34,479 --> 01:09:37,960
Speaker 1: and snake oil, because there is a panopoly of these.

1151
01:09:38,080 --> 01:09:41,720
Speaker 1: Many of them are roundly dismissed as little more than

1152
01:09:41,760 --> 01:09:45,680
Speaker 1: the placebo effect, or at the more sinister side of

1153
01:09:45,720 --> 01:09:50,240
Speaker 1: the spectrum, they can be scams and cons taking advantage

1154
01:09:50,320 --> 01:09:54,240
Speaker 1: of people laboring under the weight of fear. I mean,

1155
01:09:54,280 --> 01:09:58,480
Speaker 1: things like med beds, Matt you earlier mentioned light treatments.

1156
01:09:59,080 --> 01:10:01,600
Speaker 1: A lot of these things do provide a benefit, or

1157
01:10:01,600 --> 01:10:05,320
Speaker 1: at the very least they don't actually harm people. Sure,

1158
01:10:05,080 --> 01:10:08,240
Speaker 1: they fall apart when they tend to make extravagant claims.

1159
01:10:08,320 --> 01:10:10,920
Speaker 3: Well, even the stuff Brian Johnson's talking about just like

1160
01:10:11,000 --> 01:10:14,360
Speaker 3: you know, extreme adherence to these regimes and like you know,

1161
01:10:15,080 --> 01:10:17,840
Speaker 3: supplements and such. None of the stuff that he's talking

1162
01:10:17,840 --> 01:10:20,439
Speaker 3: about is bad for you. If you did it, you

1163
01:10:20,520 --> 01:10:23,760
Speaker 3: probably would benefit. But the idea of like ascribing some

1164
01:10:23,800 --> 01:10:26,280
Speaker 3: sort of like this is the new way to eternal

1165
01:10:26,320 --> 01:10:29,120
Speaker 3: life is in and of itself kind of a little problematic.

1166
01:10:29,479 --> 01:10:31,759
Speaker 2: Well, you shared a video with us earlier today.

1167
01:10:32,439 --> 01:10:33,120
Speaker 3: It's by.

1168
01:10:34,439 --> 01:10:39,920
Speaker 2: Economy, Yeah, the Economy, and it's this reporter Marin Hunsberger

1169
01:10:39,960 --> 01:10:43,000
Speaker 2: who just kind of exploring this concept, right, and she

1170
01:10:43,200 --> 01:10:45,960
Speaker 2: ends up going to this place called the rad Festival

1171
01:10:46,280 --> 01:10:49,320
Speaker 2: that I had never heard of. It's in Las Vegas, Nevada,

1172
01:10:49,400 --> 01:10:52,280
Speaker 2: and it's they call it the Woodstock of Radical Life

1173
01:10:52,280 --> 01:10:57,679
Speaker 2: Extension Technologies. Okay, right, So there she explores all kinds

1174
01:10:57,720 --> 01:11:01,320
Speaker 2: of different products and companies that are off ring services

1175
01:11:01,360 --> 01:11:03,760
Speaker 2: basically or again a device you could have at your

1176
01:11:03,760 --> 01:11:07,840
Speaker 2: own house that purport to do things that we've been

1177
01:11:07,880 --> 01:11:11,080
Speaker 2: talking about in this episode extending your life or the

1178
01:11:11,160 --> 01:11:14,639
Speaker 2: quality of your life, or letting you, you know, live

1179
01:11:14,680 --> 01:11:16,960
Speaker 2: a little bit longer, a little bit healthier, And I

1180
01:11:17,080 --> 01:11:19,680
Speaker 2: just think it was worth us mentioning. We don't have

1181
01:11:19,720 --> 01:11:23,000
Speaker 2: to talk about any of them specifically, but just that,

1182
01:11:23,479 --> 01:11:27,639
Speaker 2: to my eyes and ears, those technologies and companies seem

1183
01:11:27,720 --> 01:11:31,200
Speaker 2: to be aimed directly at older consumers who are concerned

1184
01:11:31,240 --> 01:11:35,080
Speaker 2: with their own mortality, who happen to either be wealthy

1185
01:11:35,160 --> 01:11:38,559
Speaker 2: enough to drop a couple thousand dollars on something, or

1186
01:11:38,600 --> 01:11:42,640
Speaker 2: have enough retirement money or income right to not be

1187
01:11:42,800 --> 01:11:45,759
Speaker 2: worried about dropping a couple thousand dollars on something.

1188
01:11:46,040 --> 01:11:48,240
Speaker 3: You think it's an accident that it was in Las Vegas.

1189
01:11:48,280 --> 01:11:51,400
Speaker 3: I mean, we've talked about how like casinos also target

1190
01:11:51,560 --> 01:11:54,960
Speaker 3: older people with like disposable incomes. And again some of

1191
01:11:55,000 --> 01:11:58,880
Speaker 3: the things in here, you know, results may vary, I guess,

1192
01:11:58,920 --> 01:12:01,720
Speaker 3: but some of them and the marketing behind them, You're

1193
01:12:01,760 --> 01:12:03,960
Speaker 3: absolutely right, You're absolutely right.

1194
01:12:04,320 --> 01:12:06,479
Speaker 2: But in the same time, in that documentary you can

1195
01:12:06,560 --> 01:12:09,800
Speaker 2: learn really interesting things about stuff that we already mentioned

1196
01:12:10,120 --> 01:12:14,240
Speaker 2: in this episode, but research into how to extend life's

1197
01:12:14,360 --> 01:12:18,960
Speaker 2: good years and then shorten the amount of deterioration years. Right,

1198
01:12:19,360 --> 01:12:21,599
Speaker 2: And we just at least should mention this. You can

1199
01:12:21,600 --> 01:12:25,080
Speaker 2: look it up on your own time. But doctor Leonard

1200
01:12:25,120 --> 01:12:31,320
Speaker 2: Guarante from MIT studying these things called SR two genes,

1201
01:12:31,840 --> 01:12:35,879
Speaker 2: which is it's this incredible way to basically stop genes

1202
01:12:36,000 --> 01:12:40,160
Speaker 2: from hitting that genetic kill switch or the off switch

1203
01:12:40,520 --> 01:12:45,200
Speaker 2: to where cells will stop regenerating and stop reproducing. It's

1204
01:12:45,240 --> 01:12:49,000
Speaker 2: fascinating stuff, and hopefully there's some kind of silver lining

1205
01:12:49,000 --> 01:12:53,080
Speaker 2: in here somewhere that says all of this isn't apocalyptic,

1206
01:12:53,400 --> 01:12:57,160
Speaker 2: all of it isn't just for ultra wealthy people. We

1207
01:12:57,439 --> 01:13:01,000
Speaker 2: could as a species maybe get to a place that

1208
01:13:01,120 --> 01:13:06,040
Speaker 2: isn't immortality, but is at least improving the good stuff

1209
01:13:06,120 --> 01:13:07,679
Speaker 2: in decreasing the bad stuff.

1210
01:13:08,080 --> 01:13:12,320
Speaker 1: And it becomes prisoner's dilemma. It really does. Like if

1211
01:13:12,360 --> 01:13:16,440
Speaker 1: you could guarantee that every single instance of Homo sapiens

1212
01:13:16,920 --> 01:13:20,680
Speaker 1: would have a very well lived quality of life up

1213
01:13:20,760 --> 01:13:23,920
Speaker 1: until maybe fifty years old. Everybody dies when they're fifty

1214
01:13:24,000 --> 01:13:26,920
Speaker 1: or something like that, then how many people of the

1215
01:13:26,920 --> 01:13:30,920
Speaker 1: billions out there would be willing to sacrifice what they

1216
01:13:30,960 --> 01:13:35,240
Speaker 1: see as they're extra twenty seven years, right in return

1217
01:13:35,439 --> 01:13:38,719
Speaker 1: for making the world a better place for everyone.

1218
01:13:39,280 --> 01:13:41,639
Speaker 3: Well, and one thing I think was in this video,

1219
01:13:41,680 --> 01:13:44,320
Speaker 3: it might have been in another one. The argument in

1220
01:13:44,360 --> 01:13:46,760
Speaker 3: these types of discussions always comes up about like how

1221
01:13:46,800 --> 01:13:49,960
Speaker 3: well the world is already, like we're running out of resources,

1222
01:13:50,360 --> 01:13:54,000
Speaker 3: populations ballooning out of control. What would it mean if

1223
01:13:54,000 --> 01:13:56,120
Speaker 3: all of a sudden everybody lived forever. It would be

1224
01:13:56,160 --> 01:13:58,320
Speaker 3: a drain on resources, It would be a drain on

1225
01:13:58,400 --> 01:14:01,360
Speaker 3: a lot of things, especially if people were retired and

1226
01:14:01,439 --> 01:14:03,760
Speaker 3: just living forever, you know, and like had to be

1227
01:14:03,800 --> 01:14:06,479
Speaker 3: taken care of in some way, shape or form. But uh,

1228
01:14:06,720 --> 01:14:08,760
Speaker 3: I wish I could remember, because I thought this guy

1229
01:14:08,840 --> 01:14:11,360
Speaker 3: made a really good point. He said, if you knew

1230
01:14:11,800 --> 01:14:14,120
Speaker 3: that the problems of the future were going to be

1231
01:14:14,200 --> 01:14:17,320
Speaker 3: your problems, wouldn't you live life a little differently?

1232
01:14:17,640 --> 01:14:17,960
Speaker 1: Sure?

1233
01:14:18,200 --> 01:14:18,400
Speaker 3: Right?

1234
01:14:18,439 --> 01:14:22,679
Speaker 1: Would a president and a democracy be more responsible if

1235
01:14:23,439 --> 01:14:28,439
Speaker 1: something after the four year period of potus matter or

1236
01:14:28,479 --> 01:14:29,080
Speaker 1: affected them?

1237
01:14:29,200 --> 01:14:29,400
Speaker 3: Yeah?

1238
01:14:29,680 --> 01:14:31,360
Speaker 2: Oh, if they were going to live longer than a

1239
01:14:31,360 --> 01:14:31,960
Speaker 2: couple of years.

1240
01:14:32,320 --> 01:14:34,720
Speaker 3: That's what I mean literally in your life, Like, if

1241
01:14:34,720 --> 01:14:36,479
Speaker 3: you were going to live longer and you were going

1242
01:14:36,520 --> 01:14:39,640
Speaker 3: to experience the results of climate change or whatever it

1243
01:14:39,720 --> 01:14:43,240
Speaker 3: might be, would you feel differently would you behave differently?

1244
01:14:43,520 --> 01:14:45,080
Speaker 3: And you know, the argument is that, well, I'm doing

1245
01:14:45,120 --> 01:14:47,600
Speaker 3: it for my kids, for my grandkids, but that's not

1246
01:14:47,680 --> 01:14:50,040
Speaker 3: the same as doing it for you. And I'm not

1247
01:14:50,080 --> 01:14:52,599
Speaker 3: saying that people are inherently selfish, but I do think

1248
01:14:52,640 --> 01:14:55,400
Speaker 3: it would. It would move the needle in an interesting way.

1249
01:14:55,479 --> 01:14:56,160
Speaker 3: That's all us.

1250
01:14:56,240 --> 01:14:58,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, speaking of interesting, it's interesting that you talk about

1251
01:14:59,280 --> 01:15:04,680
Speaker 1: humanity is inherent selfishness, because if you really interrogate that

1252
01:15:05,040 --> 01:15:07,680
Speaker 1: as a human being, what you will find is that

1253
01:15:07,840 --> 01:15:12,960
Speaker 1: ultimately your selfish interest in the long term, they align

1254
01:15:13,120 --> 01:15:17,640
Speaker 1: with all that crazy utopian stuff. It is better for

1255
01:15:17,760 --> 01:15:20,320
Speaker 1: you as an individual to live in a world that

1256
01:15:20,439 --> 01:15:23,400
Speaker 1: is sustainable. It is better for you as an individual

1257
01:15:23,720 --> 01:15:26,719
Speaker 1: to live in a world where people aren't committing crime

1258
01:15:26,800 --> 01:15:31,000
Speaker 1: out of necessity. The logic is solid, and it's sad

1259
01:15:31,479 --> 01:15:34,880
Speaker 1: that it is so difficult and put upon the consumer

1260
01:15:34,960 --> 01:15:37,680
Speaker 1: to eliminate the noise. I love that we're going to

1261
01:15:37,760 --> 01:15:40,360
Speaker 1: questions because that's where we end. Let's end on the

1262
01:15:40,400 --> 01:15:43,559
Speaker 1: most important point. With all the factors we talked about

1263
01:15:43,640 --> 01:15:47,400
Speaker 1: at play, it is now increasingly possible that someone alive

1264
01:15:47,479 --> 01:15:51,439
Speaker 1: today will achieve a form of immortality. Personally, I think

1265
01:15:51,479 --> 01:15:53,960
Speaker 1: it's going to happen. They might live to one thousand,

1266
01:15:54,600 --> 01:15:57,679
Speaker 1: they might have some they might be the emulated human

1267
01:15:58,200 --> 01:16:01,640
Speaker 1: may live forever or until a certain get unplugged. But

1268
01:16:01,760 --> 01:16:04,120
Speaker 1: one thing for sure, it's not going to be perfect.

1269
01:16:04,360 --> 01:16:07,559
Speaker 1: It is going to up end civilization. I think this

1270
01:16:07,600 --> 01:16:11,200
Speaker 1: is a huge point because, as we established earlier, for years,

1271
01:16:11,600 --> 01:16:17,640
Speaker 1: all successful human civilizations fundamentally depend on people dying on

1272
01:16:17,680 --> 01:16:21,040
Speaker 1: a routine basis. The world is not ready. The research

1273
01:16:21,040 --> 01:16:24,200
Speaker 1: will increase, but it's the cusp of a strange renaissance,

1274
01:16:24,439 --> 01:16:27,680
Speaker 1: a future feedback loop. Our feed are halfway off the

1275
01:16:27,800 --> 01:16:30,840
Speaker 1: chasm of this grand canyon. I mean, we have to

1276
01:16:31,120 --> 01:16:34,880
Speaker 1: end with those questions. How will this technology roll out?

1277
01:16:35,040 --> 01:16:40,080
Speaker 1: How will civilization adjust to a class of millenniarians and immortals,

1278
01:16:40,439 --> 01:16:44,240
Speaker 1: Especially these people who don't die still need to do

1279
01:16:44,400 --> 01:16:48,160
Speaker 1: the human things like eat, sleep, drink potable water. How

1280
01:16:48,160 --> 01:16:53,160
Speaker 1: would you solve the problem of immortality? Fellow conspiracy realist.

1281
01:16:54,520 --> 01:16:58,240
Speaker 2: Honestly, don't think it's that dire or or bad. I

1282
01:16:58,280 --> 01:17:01,960
Speaker 2: think I think I think it's gonna be great. Actually,

1283
01:17:03,000 --> 01:17:06,840
Speaker 2: because I don't have that I don't know, man, I

1284
01:17:06,880 --> 01:17:11,040
Speaker 2: feel I kind of am aligning with the once if

1285
01:17:11,080 --> 01:17:14,040
Speaker 2: people actually were living longer, they would want to improve

1286
01:17:14,120 --> 01:17:17,040
Speaker 2: things more than they currently do. That's really where I

1287
01:17:17,240 --> 01:17:18,240
Speaker 2: see it, So.

1288
01:17:18,320 --> 01:17:21,840
Speaker 1: Let us know your thoughts. Conspiracy Realist, We appreciate your time.

1289
01:17:21,840 --> 01:17:24,520
Speaker 1: As always, we endeavor to be easy to find online.

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01:17:24,800 --> 01:17:27,280
Speaker 3: Correct. You can find us at the handle conspiracy Stuff

1291
01:17:27,320 --> 01:17:34,000
Speaker 3: on x nay, Twitter, Wait, x fka, Twitter, whatever, YouTube

1292
01:17:34,040 --> 01:17:38,120
Speaker 3: and Facebook. Conspiracy Stuff show on Instagram and TikTok.

1293
01:17:38,360 --> 01:17:40,840
Speaker 2: Hey, we've got a phone number. It's one eight three

1294
01:17:40,920 --> 01:17:45,200
Speaker 2: three std WYTK. You've got three minutes when you call in.

1295
01:17:45,280 --> 01:17:47,080
Speaker 2: Give yourself a cool name and let us know if

1296
01:17:47,120 --> 01:17:48,960
Speaker 2: we can use your name and message on the air.

1297
01:17:49,160 --> 01:17:50,519
Speaker 2: If you don't want to do that, why not send

1298
01:17:50,600 --> 01:17:51,759
Speaker 2: us a good old fashioned email.

1299
01:17:51,920 --> 01:18:13,400
Speaker 1: We are conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

1300
01:18:13,560 --> 01:18:15,599
Speaker 2: Stuff they don't want you to know is a production

1301
01:18:15,720 --> 01:18:20,240
Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

1302
01:18:20,320 --> 01:18:23,200
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.