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Speaker 1: Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Saren Saren Saren, Wake Up, Wake Up Elizabeth. How are you.

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Speaker 3: I'm doing pretty good. I was just taking a little

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Speaker 3: cat and I'm not sleeping well. But other than that,

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Speaker 3: I'm great. How about you?

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Speaker 2: You're not sleeping well?

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Speaker 3: Have you not seen the State of the World?

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Speaker 4: Well?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm like, so I stay up reading news I

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Speaker 3: shouldn't and I'm like, oh, I'm gonna get to sleep. Dreams.

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Speaker 2: Oh, I bet you know it's ridiculous.

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Speaker 3: I do you love Law and Order SVU?

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Speaker 2: I certainly?

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Speaker 3: Do you also love Original Flavor?

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Speaker 2: Law and Order?

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Speaker 3: Right?

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Speaker 2: Original recipe?

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Speaker 3: Okay? The character Detective John Munch played by Richard Belzer,

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Speaker 3: A right. Do you know that he didn't obviously start

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Speaker 3: on Law and Order?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he started in was it Homicide Life on the Streets?

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Speaker 3: David Simon's show Before the Wire. So it turns out

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Speaker 3: he was in Homicide Life for the Streets, which means

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Speaker 3: that exists. He played Detective John Munch.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, exactly, and then he was on Law.

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Speaker 3: And Order a special victims unit, and then he was

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Speaker 3: in the Law and Order Original Flavor. Sure, but those

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Speaker 3: aren't just the only shows he's been on.

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Speaker 2: I know of one other.

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Speaker 3: What's the other one?

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Speaker 2: You know, the X Files.

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Speaker 3: Yes, he was an episode of The X Files, The

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Speaker 3: Usual Suspects. Yeah, sorry, The Unusual Suspects was the episode.

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Speaker 3: Then he was also on another Law and Order show,

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Speaker 3: Trial by Jury. He was also in one episode of

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Speaker 3: the Wire. He was really he was also in Arrested

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Speaker 3: Development may he plays John much every one of these shows.

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Speaker 3: He also played John Munch detective John Munch on Arrested Development,

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Speaker 3: like yeah, like with gob Bluth and all that, right, yeah,

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Speaker 3: So and then you know, since he was on the Wire,

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Speaker 3: he was also I mean he's been in thirty Rock

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Speaker 3: playing detective John Munch. Yes, and also the Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt.

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Speaker 3: I don't know if you know that one. Yeah, And

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Speaker 3: so essentially if you do the math, right, that means

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Speaker 3: that Law and Order franchises, Luther, the TV show Homicide,

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Speaker 3: the TV show X Files, TV show The Wire, and

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Speaker 3: the Arrested Development and thirty Rocket.

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Speaker 2: How does Luthor was also in Luther.

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Speaker 3: He also was in an episode of Luther. They mentioned

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Speaker 3: him on the phone like Wetective John Munch over New

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Speaker 3: York is gonna he doesn't make an appearance, but he

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Speaker 3: does have a he shows up in the story. So

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Speaker 3: these are all one enormous television universe.

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Speaker 2: Yes, now it's and you can't back out of that.

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Speaker 4: No.

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Speaker 3: And then also if you do the math on that,

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Speaker 3: that means Idris Elvis is character of Luther and his

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Speaker 3: character of Stringer Belt in the Wire insists in the

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Speaker 3: same crime universe.

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Speaker 2: Well, you know doppelgangers there.

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Speaker 3: I love that Detective John Restedlopment and X Files and

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Speaker 3: thirty Rock and just that's incredible. It's ridiculous.

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Speaker 2: It's just the majesty of Munch, Like, how could you

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Speaker 2: resist using him? We got Maybe we'll put him in

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Speaker 2: the credits and he'll pull him into the Ridiculous crime universe.

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Speaker 3: Whoa, then we share the same You're a genius, I know,

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Speaker 3: I really am.

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Speaker 2: College. Do you know what else is ridiculous? I am

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Speaker 2: dB pages and I'll just leave it at that. This

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Speaker 2: is Ridiculous Crime, a podcast about absurd and outrageous capers.

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Speaker 2: Heis and cons it's always ninety nine percent murder free

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Speaker 2: and one hundred percent ridiculous.

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Speaker 3: You damn right, I know I am, because you're a genius.

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Speaker 2: I am a bringing genius. You recently talked about Field

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Speaker 2: of Dreams, the nineteen eighty nine movie Yes, starring Kevin Costner.

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Speaker 3: Which came out two years before a point break.

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Speaker 2: Kevin Costner, I'm trying to not talk like a Californian.

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Speaker 3: And lose the teas and everything.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's not Costner, it's Costner.

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Speaker 3: Actually, I think it's almost like a silent tea because

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Speaker 3: you hear him say it's Kevin Costner.

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Speaker 2: Does he's a Californier? Okay, you hat us do that

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Speaker 2: impromptu reading from the script.

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Speaker 3: Ridiculous crime.

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Speaker 2: It was a magical moment, to be sure. And so

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Speaker 2: the movie is based on the book, as you said,

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Speaker 2: Shoeless Show, great book by W. P. Kinsella.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like America's answer to magical realism. It's baseball

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Speaker 3: magical baseball realism.

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Speaker 2: Love magical realism. So in the book, the author JD.

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Speaker 2: Salinger plays a biga.

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Speaker 3: Yes he does.

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Speaker 2: And so a bit of background on background here. JD.

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Speaker 2: Salinger for those unfamiliar, influential American author best known for

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Speaker 2: his nineteen fifty one novel The Catcher in the rye

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Speaker 2: Yes and that follows sixteen year old Holden Coffield.

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Speaker 3: Who didn't catch baseballs. He caught kids.

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Speaker 2: He got kids in the rye over a few days.

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Speaker 2: It takes place over a few days after being kicked

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Speaker 2: out of prep school, wanders around New York City like

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Speaker 2: talks all about phoniness. Everything's phony in the adult world.

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Speaker 2: And so it's all about like alienation and innocence and identity.

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Speaker 2: And he's like all cynical guy, and he uses all

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Speaker 2: this slang total teenage angst and disillusionment. Holden Cowfield becomes

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Speaker 2: this iconic figure of rebellion. It was seen as like

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Speaker 2: a super edgy, you know book at.

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Speaker 3: The like the book's version of rebel without a cause

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Speaker 3: of James Dean.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yes, that was good. So there were some who

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Speaker 2: thought it was it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you know.

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Speaker 2: Meanwhile, the beats are like challenging all sensibilities Ginsburg's working on.

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Speaker 3: How Yeah, it was more of a mainstream ed genis.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but the book remains a staple of young adult literature,

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Speaker 2: even though it winds up on banned books not these

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Speaker 2: lists pretty often. So. Salinger was a World War Two

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Speaker 2: vet and he worked in counterintelligence in the war. Fought

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Speaker 2: in D Day. He landed at Utah Beach, did he, Yes,

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Speaker 2: he did not know that. So after Catcher and the

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Speaker 2: Rye became huge, he followed it up with a couple

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Speaker 2: other works, but nothing matched that first novel, and he

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Speaker 2: was overwhelmed by this. Yeah, and then there was like

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Speaker 2: some short stories, and but he got overwhelmed by this

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Speaker 2: massive success. So he moved to a ninety acre compound

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Speaker 2: in New Hampshire.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, total recluse. He withdrew from public life. He stopped

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Speaker 2: publishing new work after nineteen sixty five and then refused

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Speaker 2: all interviews after nineteen eighty. So in Shoelace, Joe Ray,

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Speaker 2: the main character, quote unquote, kidnaps Salinger from his home

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Speaker 2: in New Hampshire.

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Speaker 3: That's a differencetwe in the movie in the book.

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Speaker 2: Right, And so the author Kinsella used Salinger because The

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Speaker 2: Catcher and the Rye had really deep meaning for him,

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Speaker 2: and he had noticed that his own last name, Kinsella

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Speaker 2: appeared in some of Salinger's work. So in the book,

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Speaker 2: Ray takes the reclusive author to a game at Fenway

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Speaker 2: Park in Boston, then goes out to the magical Iowa

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Speaker 2: Cornfield where baseball lives forever. Salinger guides ray on his

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Speaker 2: journey of faith and redemption. In the novel spoiler alert,

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Speaker 2: it's Sallenger who walks off into the cornfield with the

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Speaker 2: players at the end.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and then that means you don't get the classic

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Speaker 3: at the ball field and Fenway with the whole What

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Speaker 3: do you want? Oh? I want to be left alone

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Speaker 3: about No, what do you want? Oh?

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Speaker 2: Dog gonna be right?

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Speaker 3: James Earl Jones is killed me.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, when it came time to adapt the book

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Speaker 2: into a movie, there was a problem. It wasn't just

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Speaker 2: that Salinger was a recluse. He was also famously litigious.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, he was obsessed with protecting his intellectual property

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Speaker 2: and his privacy. He sued to stop a biographer from

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Speaker 2: using letters. We'll get to that later. He sued a

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Speaker 2: publisher to stop publication of previously unpublished works. So when

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Speaker 2: the novel's Shoeless Joe came out, he threatened to sue

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Speaker 2: about being included in the novel.

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Speaker 3: I don't think he can.

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Speaker 2: Well, he just he made all this noise. He never

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Speaker 2: followed tru with it. They get to adapting the book

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Speaker 2: for the screen, and everyone was worried that he would

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Speaker 2: actually file a lawsuit. On this one and come up

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Speaker 2: the works.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well, because then that's different because now you're portraying

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Speaker 3: his likeness in the book. It's more of his public

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Speaker 3: figure of his persona.

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Speaker 2: Right, So once again Salinger makes his threats and they're like, ah,

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Speaker 2: So the producers changed Salinger to this fictionalized composite character,

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Speaker 2: as you said, played by James Earl Jones, Terrence vis Man,

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Speaker 2: And that was just to avoid legal action, that was

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Speaker 2: the only reason. And in the film, Terrence Man is

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Speaker 2: like a sixties counterculture writer who's brought out of his reclusive,

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Speaker 2: angry state by the magic of the field.

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Speaker 3: So it's the same think if James Baldwin was JD. Salinger.

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Speaker 2: Yes, so it's the same. You know, he plays that

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Speaker 2: same plot role, but it's you know, they can't use

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Speaker 2: the man himself. So now we've established that JD. Salinger

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Speaker 2: was both reclusive and litigious. Yes, his biggest lawsuit, as

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Speaker 2: I kind of talked about a little bit before, was

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Speaker 2: Salinger versus Random House, and that was in nineteen eighty seven.

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Speaker 2: So the case addressed whether a biographer could quote from

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Speaker 2: unpublished private letters without permission, okay, and the ruling strengthened

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Speaker 2: copyright protection for unpublished works and had this huge impact

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Speaker 2: on literary biography and archival research.

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Speaker 3: Could just buy letters and then publish.

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Speaker 2: Them, right, Well, so, in the early eighties, this British

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Speaker 2: literary critic Ian Hamilton, he was writing a biography of JD. Salinger,

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Speaker 2: and Hamilton don't forget like at nineteen eighty, Salinger's like,

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Speaker 2: no more interviews. So Hamilton asked Salinger to collaborate on

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Speaker 2: the project, but Salinger was like, no way, get out

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Speaker 2: of here. Hamilton's like, I'll just write it alone. So

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Speaker 2: he's doing his research. He gets access to Solander's unpublished

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Speaker 2: letters that were kept in university library archives, and so

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Speaker 2: although researchers were permitted to read the letters under controlled conditions,

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Speaker 2: Salinger retained the copyright in them.

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Speaker 3: Gotcha.

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Speaker 2: Hamilton ignored that his manuscript included direct quotations from the letters,

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Speaker 2: close paraphrases that closely tracked Salinger's wording, and descriptions of

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Speaker 2: like the emotional tone and the personal content of the

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Speaker 2: correspondence and so. But like, at this point, though, like

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Speaker 2: it's hypothetical that Salinger has the copyright. How so he

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Speaker 2: hadn't actually put in the paperwork to attain it okay

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Speaker 2: for the letters, so random House they sent out uncorrected

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Speaker 2: proofs of the biography to various reviewers. One forwarded their

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Speaker 2: copy on to Salinger, and that's how Salinger found out

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Speaker 2: that his personal letters were in the libraries and accessible

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Speaker 2: to the public. He didn't know.

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Speaker 3: Wow, that's got to be.

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Speaker 2: So he couldn't claim copyright on it because he didn't

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Speaker 2: even know they were there. Yeah, he registered his copyright

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Speaker 2: in the letters, had his lawyer demand that everything in

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Speaker 2: the book that came from the unpublished letters be removed.

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Speaker 2: And so then Hamilton he makes all these revisions.

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Speaker 3: Well, I have to imagine that Hamilton was kind of

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Speaker 3: inspired by like Norman Mahlers doing the thing with Marilyn

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Speaker 3: Monroe where he basically takes her diary, he turns it

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Speaker 3: into a book and then he just fabricates stuff and

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Speaker 3: makes up a whole thing. And that was a real

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Speaker 3: big hit just a couple of years prior. So I

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Speaker 3: think he's probably going, well, here's another icon from the fifties. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: I can do the same.

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Speaker 2: Thing totally, totally, I very much see that. So he's

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Speaker 2: now pressed, I have to make these revisions. He changes

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Speaker 2: direct quotes, into paraphrases. Soalngers like that's not enough, still

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Speaker 2: too close, So he files suit to prevent publication. In

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Speaker 2: October of nineteen eighty six, Salinger sued both the author

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Speaker 2: and the publisher, Random House. He wanted damages and he

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Speaker 2: wanted an injunction against publication of the book. He said

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Speaker 2: they had violated copyright, breach a contract, unfair competition, like

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Speaker 2: he was just throwing everything.

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Speaker 3: Sure.

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Speaker 2: The central legal question was whether Hamilton's use of the

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Speaker 2: quotations and the paraphrases from unpublished letters qualified as a

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Speaker 2: fair use under US copyright.

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Speaker 3: That is the question.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So there are four statutory fair use factors, okay,

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Speaker 2: one purpose and character of the use. Two nature of

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Speaker 2: the copyrighted work, sure, three amounts and substantiality used, and

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Speaker 2: for effect on the potential market.

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Speaker 3: Totally. I've had to go through all these before.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Well this is something that we actually think about

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Speaker 2: a lot on here and why we don't use popular music.

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Speaker 3: Well yeah, and also that's why we can use documentary

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Speaker 3: stuff because if you add to it, if you change

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Speaker 3: it and make it a commentary and you're not just

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Speaker 3: going here it is right, then you can't do it.

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Speaker 3: So fair use allows you to use something as part

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Speaker 3: of a new work. It allows you to do something

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Speaker 3: where you're going to transmography its values. You have to

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Speaker 3: add to it, and you have to take it out

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Speaker 3: of context and provide new context.

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Speaker 5: Right.

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Speaker 2: We can't do that anyway with music.

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Speaker 3: Obviously, you can't do that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So the US District Court for the Southern District

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Speaker 2: of New York rejected all of Salinger's claims, and the

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Speaker 2: court said that while the Supreme Court had quote stressed

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Speaker 2: the tailoring of fair use analysis to the particular case,

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Speaker 2: it neither stated nor implied a categorical rule barring fair

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Speaker 2: use of unpublished works. Okay, and then it went on,

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Speaker 2: Hamilton's use of Salinger's copyrighted material is minimal and insubstantial.

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Speaker 2: It does not exploit or appropriate the literary value of

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Speaker 2: Salinger's letters. Yes, it does not diminish the commercial value

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Speaker 2: of Salader's letters for future publication. It does not impair

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Speaker 2: Salinger's control over first publication of his copyrighted letters or

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Speaker 2: interfere with his exercise of control over his artistic reputation.

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Speaker 3: I love how much of law is based on exercise

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Speaker 3: of control.

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Speaker 2: You right, exactly? So the court rejected it, but it

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Speaker 2: also issued a temporary restraining order pending an appeal.

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Speaker 3: Okay, so they allowed him, like come back with a

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Speaker 3: better argument.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, if you can, Yeah, if you can strengthen it up.

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Speaker 2: So they go to the US Court of Appeals Second Circuit,

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Speaker 2: and they ruled largely in Salinger's favor, so that court

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Speaker 2: emphasized an author's right to control first publication published. The

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Speaker 2: court found that Hamilton's close paraphrases captured the quote expressive

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Speaker 2: content of Salander's letters and that was not sufficiently transformative.

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Speaker 2: And then the court also concluded that the amount and

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Speaker 2: qualitative value of the material used weighed against fair use.

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Speaker 2: It's just too much.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's it is the big issue. You can, like,

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Speaker 3: even with the music you can use. I think it's

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Speaker 3: like a one point five seconds, like a second and

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Speaker 3: a half of music. Yeah, just that people know what

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Speaker 3: you're referring to, right, But if you go and play

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Speaker 3: like a minute and a half, you're practically playing the song.

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Speaker 2: You know, so they're like no, no, no, exactly.

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Speaker 3: So that inclusive writing you usually can't do like large

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Speaker 3: swaths of a page. You have to do like maybe

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Speaker 3: a paragraph at most. And then even then you have

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Speaker 3: to introduce it and change your like you know what

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Speaker 3: it leads to it you have to make new connective

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Speaker 3: tissue exactly.

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Speaker 2: So that rule, right, It led to significant revisions in

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Speaker 2: the manuscript. The biography was eventually published in its altered form,

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Speaker 2: with quotations removed, all these like generalizations made, and at

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Speaker 2: the time the decision was viewed as like a really

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Speaker 2: strong pro author ruling.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, sounds like it made it.

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Speaker 2: More difficult for biographers to quote unpublished materials. And then

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Speaker 2: but this like really concerned history marian's and literary scholars.

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Speaker 2: They start freaking out. I could see that, because, yeah,

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Speaker 2: so either way, the case becomes this leading precedent and

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Speaker 2: copyright law concerning unpublished materials.

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Speaker 3: Maybe such a big name too.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. And then, in response to concerns about what this

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Speaker 2: would do to scholarly pursuits back when Congress cared about

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Speaker 2: higher education and scholarly research and integrity, Congress amended the

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Speaker 2: Copyright Act in nineteen ninety two to clarify that the

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Speaker 2: unpublished status of a work does not itself bar a

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Speaker 2: finding of fair use. So unpublished status should be considered,

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Speaker 2: but is not just positive.

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Speaker 3: Okay, that's that's fair.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so that's nineteen eighty six. Right, yeah, let's go

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Speaker 2: back to nineteen eighty two for a second.

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Speaker 3: Please. I love nineteen that's when.

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Speaker 2: That's when Salinger sued a guy named Stephen Cunis.

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Speaker 3: Stephen, how do you spell that k.

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Speaker 2: U n E s? So it looks like key, looks

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Speaker 2: like a Cunis, So, Salinger said, Cunis was trying to

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Speaker 2: impersonate him and sell written work as if he'd written

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Speaker 2: it different.

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Speaker 6: Question.

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Speaker 2: Here's, according to the lawsuit, Cunis quote offered for sale

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Speaker 2: to People Magazine a completely fictitious interview with JD. Salinger

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Speaker 2: and misrepresented it as quote a transcript of an actual interview.

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Speaker 3: That's crazy.

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Speaker 2: Here's how it went I can imagine. I know here's

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Speaker 2: how it went down. So Cunis submits this interview to

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Speaker 2: People magazine. It was, according to the Washington Post, quote

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Speaker 2: a poignant tale of a young writer's chance meeting with JD.

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Speaker 2: Salinger on a New York street. Salinger is quite taken

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Speaker 2: with the young man and invites him to New Hampshire,

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Speaker 2: where he gives a philosophical discourse in the manner of

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Speaker 2: a grown up Holden Coffield. Maybe this interview will help

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Speaker 2: you get published, Salinger tells the interviewer, just before bidding

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Speaker 2: him godspeed.

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Speaker 3: It sounds a lot more like what you expect from

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Speaker 3: John Style.

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Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, So Salander had other accusations. He said Cunis

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Speaker 2: forged a letter from Salinger to Cunis on Salinger's letterhead.

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Speaker 3: How did he get the letter head?

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Speaker 2: I don't know. In the fake letter, Salinger told Cunas

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Speaker 2: that the interview quote is just fine. I wouldn't change

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Speaker 2: a word, so Salainger tells the court quote. Within the

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Speaker 2: last several months, it has come to my attention that

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Speaker 2: one Stephen Cunis has been impersonating me through forged writings,

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Speaker 2: has signed my name to forged letters, has prepared and

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Speaker 2: circulated letters on false letterhead which he has claimed were

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Speaker 2: sent out by me, has offered for sale at least

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Speaker 2: one completely fictitious quote interview with me, which grossly misrepresents

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Speaker 2: both my character and my outlook on life, attributes opinions

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Speaker 2: to me that I do not hold, attempts to copy

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Speaker 2: my prose mannerisms, and altogether tries to pass off as

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Speaker 2: real an interview that never took place.

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Speaker 3: So he faked the letter head he did identity that,

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Speaker 3: and then he also, like you know, basically shined himself off,

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Speaker 3: using Salander being like, oh, I love this kid.

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Speaker 2: He's kind of amazing this guy.

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Speaker 3: I want success for this guy.

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Speaker 2: Salinger also wrote quote, I am appalled to think that

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Speaker 2: there are in circulation a number of holy false and

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Speaker 2: grotesquely inept pieces of writing attributed to me. I believe

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Speaker 2: this defendant expected no troublesome reaction from me to his

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Speaker 2: forgeries and deliberate misrepresentations. In fact, however, I find the

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Speaker 2: defendant's activities too corrupt and too destructively consequential to ignore.

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Speaker 3: So that's, in my world, a big bright star for W. P.

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Speaker 3: Kinsella who's able to write so well. The Sounders like,

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Speaker 3: all right, that's that's pretty good.

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Speaker 2: I'll let you go. Character.

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Speaker 3: You know you're not going to pull my writing.

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Speaker 2: You appreciate me, do you see me as this kid's.

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Speaker 3: Like you're treating he's like basically training like a stepping

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Speaker 3: stone to get to a publishing career. He's like, I

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Speaker 3: don't want to go to prison to get a book deal.

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Speaker 3: I just rip off JD.

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Speaker 2: Challengerskudas denies everything at far. His lawyer went so far

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Speaker 2: as to say, quote, a hoax may have been perpetrated

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Speaker 2: on both mister Cunis and mister Salad.

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Speaker 3: Oh they're doubly victims.

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Speaker 2: Someone's out to get both of them.

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Speaker 3: Because they're both genius writers.

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Speaker 2: Right, So more details emerge, Cunis and his lawyers shift gears.

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Speaker 2: They said that, you know what Cudas is a quote

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Speaker 2: young new writer. He's newly married. They said, like, you know,

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Speaker 2: his wife just had surgery and oh she's also pregnant.

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Speaker 2: And they're like, what does it have to do with anything.

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Speaker 2: I guess like he was in a tight spot and

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Speaker 2: needed the money, and.

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Speaker 3: The lawyers like, look, I got to zealously defend this guy. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: I got to come up with something.

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Speaker 2: Now, most of us would go out and get a job.

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Speaker 3: With his pregnant wife.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe plan. I don't know.

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Speaker 3: A couple of things.

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Speaker 2: Not Steve, not Stephen Coonis. He faked an interview with

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Speaker 2: the most infamously lawsuit happy writer around. Yes, because like

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Speaker 2: this this was before the Random House case, but Salinger

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Speaker 2: had already been suing FH.

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00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:56,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's very clear.

402
00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:01,679
Speaker 2: After some negotiations, Salader with drew his claims for damages

403
00:20:01,720 --> 00:20:06,359
Speaker 2: and legal fees. He Gotkonis to sign a statement promising

404
00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:09,400
Speaker 2: never to say the two had ever met or we're friends,

405
00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:13,200
Speaker 2: and Cunis also had to recall any documents he had

406
00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:16,679
Speaker 2: sent out quote which purport to be derived from JD. Salinger,

407
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Speaker 2: written by JD. Salinger, or transcribed from statements made by JD. Salinger.

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Speaker 3: So it's the keep my name at your mouth cutte percent.

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Speaker 2: Oh, and he had to file with the court the

410
00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:29,119
Speaker 2: name of every person, firm, or company to whom he

411
00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:32,439
Speaker 2: had addressed any communication relating to or purporting to be

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Speaker 2: derived from JD.

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Speaker 3: Souder WHOA.

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Speaker 2: So what we've seen here is the beginning of the

415
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Speaker 2: not so great career of Stephen Cunis.

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Speaker 3: It goes on from here.

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Speaker 2: Let's take a break. When we come back, we're going

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Speaker 2: to get to know him a little better, all right, Zaren, Stephen,

419
00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:11,080
Speaker 2: ste what you think you'll come to find that it's

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Speaker 2: almost impossible to believe anything this guy says.

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Speaker 3: He does seem to fair no matter how.

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00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:20,399
Speaker 2: Much he swears to it. But people do. People believe him. So,

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Speaker 2: according to a self written author bio quote. Stephen Cunis

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Speaker 2: was born on September seventh, nineteen fifty six in Bucks County, Pennsylvania,

425
00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:33,639
Speaker 2: and attended New York University, where he received BA degrees

426
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Speaker 2: in Creative writing and comparative literature in nineteen seventy eight.

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Speaker 2: Is any of that true?

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Speaker 3: I was just about ask you the same question.

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Speaker 2: Thank you? The Pennsylvania part, Yeah, that's true. The rest

430
00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:49,040
Speaker 2: who knows? So his bio goes on. In nineteen eighty three,

431
00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:53,600
Speaker 2: at age twenty six, TV legend Norman Lear hired Cuonis

432
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Speaker 2: to write and develop half hour comedies for his company,

433
00:21:56,720 --> 00:22:00,199
Speaker 2: Embassy Television. This led to assignments in the areas of

434
00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:03,360
Speaker 2: one hour TV Movies of the Week, a five year

435
00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:07,680
Speaker 2: stint writing monologues for Johnny Carson, and eventually to motion pictures.

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Speaker 3: Oh Johnny Gonna get him.

437
00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:12,800
Speaker 2: So, as we learn from Annalise Rutger, you can put

438
00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:15,199
Speaker 2: a lot of made up stuff into IMDb and it

439
00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:17,320
Speaker 2: will go unnoticed for a long time, for a long time,

440
00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:24,280
Speaker 2: and others others will look at who is does anyone know?

441
00:22:24,359 --> 00:22:28,399
Speaker 2: Analiese Rutger. Others will look at IMDb and take it

442
00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:33,920
Speaker 2: as gospel, especially like journalists who aren't in the entertainment world,

443
00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:36,600
Speaker 2: looking for confirmation of what someone says, and.

444
00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:39,600
Speaker 3: Also people who don't do the you need two sources thing.

445
00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:42,160
Speaker 3: You just find it once on the internet, good enough to.

446
00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:45,440
Speaker 2: Get out of people. And I think in the entertainment

447
00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:51,840
Speaker 2: industry itself, people are more wary of Yes, yeah, not always,

448
00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:55,680
Speaker 2: not always. So let's go back to Norman Lear to refresh.

449
00:22:56,119 --> 00:22:59,800
Speaker 2: Lear was a screenwriter and producer who produced, wrote, created

450
00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:03,159
Speaker 2: more than one hundred TV show TV Powerhouse, Yeah, stuff

451
00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:06,840
Speaker 2: like All in the Family, Sanford and Son, Jefferson's One

452
00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:10,879
Speaker 2: Day at a Time, Good Times. He did sitcoms, but

453
00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:15,320
Speaker 2: they tackled social issues and political Maud. Maud was on

454
00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:15,680
Speaker 2: that list.

455
00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:18,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, you're talking about tackling social issues. You got to

456
00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:20,800
Speaker 3: give a respect to be Arthur's first show.

457
00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:24,880
Speaker 2: He Norman Lear was a genius, like truly a genius.

458
00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:27,240
Speaker 3: And also both sides of the divide thought he was

459
00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:29,959
Speaker 3: making the comedy for them. So if you watch Archie Bunker,

460
00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:32,359
Speaker 3: people thought that they weren't making fun of Archie Bunker,

461
00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:35,479
Speaker 3: they were finally giving voice to the silent majority of America.

462
00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:40,600
Speaker 2: Exactly so, as I said, Kunis tells people on podcasts

463
00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:43,399
Speaker 2: and other interviews to this day that he wrote to

464
00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:46,520
Speaker 2: Norman Lear when he was twenty six and he sent

465
00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:50,840
Speaker 2: along spec scripts that he'd written for Taxi and Mash

466
00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:56,199
Speaker 2: and Lear loved them. According to Steve, Lear was like,

467
00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:57,919
Speaker 2: you are amazing at dialogue.

468
00:23:57,920 --> 00:23:59,480
Speaker 3: You're so good, better than I am.

469
00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:03,800
Speaker 2: So Actually, according to Cunis, he said Cunis had quote

470
00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:07,359
Speaker 2: a real ear for dialogue that was what not the

471
00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:09,760
Speaker 2: other one, And he told him, quote, your big mistake

472
00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:12,480
Speaker 2: with Salinger is that you should have waited until he died.

473
00:24:13,359 --> 00:24:16,360
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, that's the Norman Mayler play.

474
00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:19,840
Speaker 2: Yes, exactly. So Lear thought Cunis was so good at

475
00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:23,440
Speaker 2: Dialogue that he wanted to fly Cunis out to LA

476
00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:26,280
Speaker 2: And we know that Lear wanted to give him a

477
00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:27,440
Speaker 2: two year writing contract.

478
00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:27,920
Speaker 3: Two years.

479
00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:32,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, So even his self created IMDV credits don't really

480
00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:36,239
Speaker 2: match up to what he boasts about. Like, I do

481
00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:39,040
Speaker 2: think he went to LA and landed some writing gigs,

482
00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:42,720
Speaker 2: but they didn't last more than an episode or so

483
00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:45,080
Speaker 2: for each show. And I think he worked on a

484
00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:47,640
Speaker 2: couple of Norman Lear pilots, and he wrote for one

485
00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:50,920
Speaker 2: episode of a show that lasted only a season, something

486
00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:55,600
Speaker 2: called Aka Pablo, starring Paul Rodriguez as a struggling standard.

487
00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:55,760
Speaker 4: No.

488
00:24:57,560 --> 00:24:59,560
Speaker 2: I think it was before our time, I was able

489
00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:02,720
Speaker 2: to firm that he did write for a TV movie

490
00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:06,480
Speaker 2: that Norman Lear did called Pop Okay.

491
00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:07,680
Speaker 3: How many writers are on that?

492
00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:12,680
Speaker 2: Not many? No, And it's I found this book that

493
00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:16,000
Speaker 2: like he had to go into internet archive and it's

494
00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:19,480
Speaker 2: like this crazy book that's a compendium of like every

495
00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:20,680
Speaker 2: sitcom and TV.

496
00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:23,679
Speaker 3: No pop is that like pop? Worker's like a robot.

497
00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:28,160
Speaker 2: Not to tell you relax, Rubby Toes on a mink

498
00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:31,840
Speaker 2: rugg Okay. Pop. It aired on NBC on August twenty ninth,

499
00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:36,600
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty four. Here's the cast. Charles Derning as p

500
00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:43,159
Speaker 2: Oliver Pendergrast, b Arthur as Roslind Gordon, Todd Graff as

501
00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:47,520
Speaker 2: Johnny Pendergrast, James Lashley as Russell Penda, by the way,

502
00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:52,080
Speaker 2: is incredible, Oh yeah, fran Dresher as Maggie Newton, Jane

503
00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:56,679
Speaker 2: Anderson as Dana McNeil, and Tonio Fargas as Frank Wilkie.

504
00:25:56,720 --> 00:25:58,880
Speaker 2: And Anthony Holland as Mark Alderman.

505
00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:01,199
Speaker 3: If I'm not mistake, and Charles Derning is one of

506
00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:03,520
Speaker 3: the most awarded soldiers of World War Two.

507
00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:05,320
Speaker 2: Really interesting.

508
00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:07,440
Speaker 3: I did not know got some of the most metals.

509
00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:09,320
Speaker 2: The guy you know, he was in a TV movie

510
00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:09,960
Speaker 2: called Pop.

511
00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:12,320
Speaker 3: No but I do. I can do his dance from

512
00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:14,399
Speaker 3: the best Little Horouse in Texas when he's the governor

513
00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:16,880
Speaker 3: does stuff with his hat. I can do that. Good.

514
00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:17,480
Speaker 2: That's good.

515
00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:21,320
Speaker 3: I like that for you remember anything about ever hearing

516
00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:23,080
Speaker 3: about pop? You know, hearing references.

517
00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:27,400
Speaker 2: It's a one off nineteen eighty four TV movie, Yeah

518
00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:30,640
Speaker 2: but still. The credits list Lear as the producer and

519
00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:34,560
Speaker 2: both Stephen Coonis and Norman Lear as the writers, and

520
00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:37,480
Speaker 2: it was directed by Bud Yorkin, who would later go

521
00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:40,000
Speaker 2: on to direct Arthur Two on the Rocks.

522
00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:43,000
Speaker 3: You know me. I like the Arthur movies. I like

523
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:46,359
Speaker 3: eighties entertainment. I go back. People are like before your birth.

524
00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:46,879
Speaker 3: I'm like I do.

525
00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:51,280
Speaker 2: Here's the concept. Twenty years after deserting his family, a

526
00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:55,960
Speaker 2: lovable con artist named p Oliver Prendergast Pop for short,

527
00:26:56,320 --> 00:27:00,000
Speaker 2: returns to his estranged family, his wife, Roslyn, the published

528
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:03,160
Speaker 2: sure of a magazine called Personality Plus, and his now

529
00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:06,919
Speaker 2: grown sons, Johnny and Russell. Oliver's effort to become a

530
00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:09,760
Speaker 2: father and husband to a family he really doesn't know

531
00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:13,880
Speaker 2: are depicted. Maggie, Dana, Frank, and Mark are employees. Of Roslin.

532
00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:17,040
Speaker 3: This sounds like a Max Dugan return to Knockoff.

533
00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:22,800
Speaker 2: Doesn't it, Roderick, Yeah, just on NBC Quickie.

534
00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:24,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, a version.

535
00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:26,639
Speaker 2: But how it wasn't an instant classic. I don't know.

536
00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:28,840
Speaker 2: Why don't we watch it every year on ourbor Day.

537
00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:32,320
Speaker 3: I'm going with Stephen Cunis's a contribution, I think.

538
00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:34,000
Speaker 2: So, So let's get back to the bio, because he

539
00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:38,119
Speaker 2: got a dialogue. He said he wrote monologues for Johnny

540
00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:41,960
Speaker 2: Carson for five years, and according to his self written

541
00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:46,120
Speaker 2: I am dB bio quote, during his last four years

542
00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:49,800
Speaker 2: on The Tonight Show, Cuonis was Johnny Carson's primary monologue

543
00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:53,440
Speaker 2: writer and wrote the final joke that Carson ever delivered.

544
00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:55,080
Speaker 3: I do not believe him.

545
00:27:55,400 --> 00:28:02,120
Speaker 2: No, Like that's like no. So. IMDb states that he

546
00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:05,159
Speaker 2: was a quote creative consultant on the show from nineteen

547
00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:06,720
Speaker 2: eighty nine to nineteen ninety one.

548
00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:09,080
Speaker 3: Okay, so it'll be close to his last year, but not.

549
00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:11,199
Speaker 2: Any of the writers, and he didn't get credit on

550
00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:13,520
Speaker 2: the final episode, which was in nineteen ninety two.

551
00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:13,960
Speaker 3: Yeah.

552
00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:17,640
Speaker 2: What I really love is the trivia section on his

553
00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:22,280
Speaker 2: IMDb page, and I shall read some to you. Wrote

554
00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:27,359
Speaker 2: the two hundredth episode of Love Boat tv Guide. The

555
00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:30,520
Speaker 2: TV Guide rank number eighty two among the one hundred

556
00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:31,960
Speaker 2: greatest episodes of all time.

557
00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:33,480
Speaker 3: That's a lot of numbers, it is.

558
00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:38,080
Speaker 2: Likes to tell strangers he's a taxidermist or an insurance underwriter.

559
00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:40,200
Speaker 3: That's kind of like you that that's one hundred percent.

560
00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:44,400
Speaker 2: What I do now. I'm like scared, here's one for you.

561
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:49,520
Speaker 2: Writes his screenplays by hand on a yellow legal pad

562
00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:53,040
Speaker 2: you graduated from New York University in nineteen seventy eight.

563
00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:57,840
Speaker 2: Writes most of his screenplays with Dustin Hoffman in mind.

564
00:28:58,200 --> 00:28:59,920
Speaker 3: Like just for all the parts.

565
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:02,080
Speaker 2: Favorite movie is Midnight Cowboy.

566
00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:03,280
Speaker 3: That's an interesting choice.

567
00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:07,000
Speaker 2: Likes to work with cinematographer John Seal Okay, I sure

568
00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:12,040
Speaker 2: want has been a Ham radio operator since age thirteen,

569
00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:15,640
Speaker 2: and then it gives his handle KQ six d F

570
00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:18,480
Speaker 2: formerly WA three m ZV.

571
00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:21,800
Speaker 3: Sure, I don't know what that means. He always wanted

572
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:22,440
Speaker 3: to though.

573
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:26,239
Speaker 2: Moved to Montecito, California, where he continues to write and

574
00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:28,840
Speaker 2: help aspiring writers through seminars and workshops.

575
00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:30,560
Speaker 3: I was just about to see this, so I'm like,

576
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:32,280
Speaker 3: you know, this guy has done seven.

577
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:37,520
Speaker 2: From January two thousand and seven, Carson present is an

578
00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:40,600
Speaker 2: adjunct assistant professor in the Creative Writing Program at New

579
00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:45,240
Speaker 2: York University. May twenty second, nineteen, New York University.

580
00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:47,720
Speaker 3: Okay, that's being New York Film Academy NYU.

581
00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:51,040
Speaker 2: Okay, his last four years on The Tonight Show, as

582
00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:53,840
Speaker 2: we said he was, he claims he was Johnny Carson's

583
00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:58,360
Speaker 2: primary monologue writer wrote the final joke. In May twentieth,

584
00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:02,000
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety two. Kun has sold an original screenplay entitled

585
00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:06,360
Speaker 2: First Comes Love to Westport Film Partners, headed by former

586
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:10,560
Speaker 2: Warner Brothers Music president Stephen Craig Aristae, for one point

587
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:13,720
Speaker 2: two million dollars. This was the highest amount ever paid

588
00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:16,080
Speaker 2: for an original screenplay at the time of its sale,

589
00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:18,480
Speaker 2: and made the front page of Daily Variety.

590
00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:23,640
Speaker 3: Okay, now, Joe esterhass eat my short Marissa and I

591
00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:26,640
Speaker 3: he has the highest Yeah, you know, had a heck.

592
00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:28,640
Speaker 2: Of a time running some of these down.

593
00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:29,680
Speaker 3: I bet so.

594
00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:32,680
Speaker 2: The variety archives for Daily Variety seem to have been

595
00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:35,080
Speaker 2: shuddered because I was like, I kept finding where you could.

596
00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:37,560
Speaker 2: I'm like, I'll pay yeah to go through their old

597
00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:41,800
Speaker 2: I'll give you credit. It doesn't exist anymore. But the

598
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:46,560
Speaker 2: only mentions of that First Comes Love screenplay and Westport

599
00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:51,560
Speaker 2: Film Partners online are from Kuna's himself. Yeah, I couldn't

600
00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:54,920
Speaker 2: find a record of Westport Film Partners. And Stephen Craig

601
00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:58,240
Speaker 2: Aristae wasn't the president of Warner Brothers Music. He was

602
00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:02,560
Speaker 2: general manager, or at least he says, like he has

603
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:06,080
Speaker 2: a super hazy online presence in work history, and he

604
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:09,920
Speaker 2: was supposed to be moving into movies with that screenplay acquisition,

605
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:14,280
Speaker 2: but his IMDb page only lists one project something will

606
00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:18,440
Speaker 2: get to later. But that involves Stephen coonis oh for real? Yeah,

607
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:21,400
Speaker 2: and it's not a feature film. So then Marissa was

608
00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:24,960
Speaker 2: like super tempted to call NYU to see if he

609
00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:29,400
Speaker 2: really was an assistant, like an adjunct assistant professor at

610
00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:32,280
Speaker 2: the Creative Writing program. But instead she's like, I just

611
00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:34,560
Speaker 2: went through all their directories and schedules and came up

612
00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:35,000
Speaker 2: with nothing.

613
00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:36,320
Speaker 3: Oh look at her.

614
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:40,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, So can't get anything by that woman. So, according

615
00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:45,200
Speaker 2: to the Santa Barbara Independent, Cunis mentioned his work on

616
00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:47,440
Speaker 2: to a lot of people on Harry Potter and The

617
00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:50,560
Speaker 2: Half Blood Prince, and he said his name didn't appear

618
00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:52,320
Speaker 2: in the credits because he was part of a larger

619
00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:53,320
Speaker 2: writing group.

620
00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:56,920
Speaker 3: That does happen, but that's usually for like later punch

621
00:31:57,000 --> 00:31:59,200
Speaker 3: Up Dash. It's like, oh, you write for one character

622
00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:01,200
Speaker 3: or you at joke, So you had, mister, you had

623
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:03,680
Speaker 3: some element that isn't there because somebody wants it.

624
00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:07,200
Speaker 2: But well, he his his IMDb page is riddled with

625
00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:10,720
Speaker 2: credits that aren't really credits, so like he listed himself

626
00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:16,240
Speaker 2: there as uncredited creative consultant on movies like Legally Blonde,

627
00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:21,440
Speaker 2: Wag the Dog, Groundhog Day, Rainman, The Pelican bin Man,

628
00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:26,360
Speaker 2: Catch Me If you Can so great. He was interviewed

629
00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:29,280
Speaker 2: on a podcast called story Beat, a podcast for the

630
00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:33,240
Speaker 2: creative mind, and he said that he has that credit

631
00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:36,160
Speaker 2: on Catch Me if you Can because the producer asked

632
00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:38,880
Speaker 2: him to rewrite the script to make the main character

633
00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:40,000
Speaker 2: quote more likable.

634
00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:42,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, there you go, that's what That's what a script

635
00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:42,560
Speaker 3: doctor does.

636
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:45,320
Speaker 2: Agreed to do it for free, which sounds you know,

637
00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:50,320
Speaker 2: and then when the script eventually got sold many years later,

638
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:54,480
Speaker 2: it was totally rewritten. Yeah. Well, but there's like the

639
00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:55,840
Speaker 2: analyst Rutger of it all.

640
00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:57,719
Speaker 3: Does he actually have a credit on that? Like if

641
00:32:57,760 --> 00:32:59,840
Speaker 3: I go watch the movie, well I see his name.

642
00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:05,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, so he's out there telling tales about his Hollywood success,

643
00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:10,040
Speaker 2: and then he's also pulling some traditional ridiculous crimes. So

644
00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:14,640
Speaker 2: from that same Santa Barbara Independent article quote, Kunis has

645
00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:17,920
Speaker 2: been in and out of trouble since nineteen ninety nine,

646
00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:22,480
Speaker 2: with felony convictions of forgery, grand theft, and false use

647
00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:26,320
Speaker 2: of financial information. He was implicated for participating in a

648
00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:30,040
Speaker 2: Los Angeles caper during which thirteen victims lost a total

649
00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:33,080
Speaker 2: of three hundred and nineteen thousand dollars after fake credit

650
00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:34,440
Speaker 2: cards were made in their names.

651
00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:38,720
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, so he's back to identity theft Zarin.

652
00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:41,640
Speaker 2: That is conduct unbecoming of a sitcom writer.

653
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:44,320
Speaker 3: Quite frankly, Norman would not be happy now.

654
00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:47,600
Speaker 2: He ran check fraud too, So in two thousand and one,

655
00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:51,000
Speaker 2: he stole two checks from a Santa Barbara man's mailbox.

656
00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:52,400
Speaker 3: This's why he was in to catch me, if you can.

657
00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:53,680
Speaker 3: I was taking notes.

658
00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:56,560
Speaker 2: He was totally taking notes. He got out his chemistry

659
00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:59,440
Speaker 2: set and used chemicals to erase the writing on hostolen chain,

660
00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:04,000
Speaker 2: then filled in his own stuff. The guy filed a

661
00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:06,600
Speaker 2: forgery report with the detectives, and when the cops tracked

662
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:09,479
Speaker 2: the money down, Cunis had already used it. He made

663
00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:12,880
Speaker 2: car payments, he paid for a membership at the golf club.

664
00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:15,799
Speaker 3: Right.

665
00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:19,080
Speaker 2: So, while the Santa Barbara p D were investigating, they

666
00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:22,880
Speaker 2: learned that other municipalities were on the hunt for Cunas,

667
00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:25,880
Speaker 2: San Mateo and Palo Alto up in the Bay area.

668
00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:30,960
Speaker 2: Oh wow, thousand oaks in the South Line. I'm wondering,

669
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:34,319
Speaker 2: but it was all like similar financial crimes. Then they

670
00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:37,200
Speaker 2: learned that he was under investigation in Princeton, New Jersey,

671
00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:41,600
Speaker 2: and East Levettown, Pennsylvania, too, closer to his old hometown.

672
00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:47,080
Speaker 2: So Cunis was eventually found guilty for the check washing incident.

673
00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:51,760
Speaker 2: He pleaded out got felony probation, but the probation didn't last.

674
00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:55,360
Speaker 2: He violated his probation by getting pinched on a different

675
00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:58,560
Speaker 2: forgery case and that got him two years eight months

676
00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:02,359
Speaker 2: in prison in November two thousand and seven. That wasn't

677
00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:04,879
Speaker 2: all he was up to. In two thousand and seven, Elizabeth,

678
00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:09,040
Speaker 2: he contacted the Santa Barbara Daily Sound newspaper and he

679
00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:11,759
Speaker 2: sold them an interview that he did oh No this

680
00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:14,920
Speaker 2: time with Jimmy Buffett ahead of a show that Buffett

681
00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:16,600
Speaker 2: was about to play at the Santa Barbara Bowl.

682
00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:17,919
Speaker 3: He didn't wait for him to leave.

683
00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:21,200
Speaker 2: He did it before so Buffett would see the interview

684
00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:23,160
Speaker 2: ran in the paper, and then the paper got a

685
00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:27,640
Speaker 2: call Hello Daily Sound. Yeah, I'm Jimmy Buffett's manager. He

686
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:30,880
Speaker 2: has no idea who this Stephen Kunis guy is and

687
00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:33,759
Speaker 2: has never even had done an interview with him, never

688
00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:36,319
Speaker 2: met him. Like what, Gibbs. Yeah, They're like, yeah, what

689
00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:40,839
Speaker 2: gives you know what? Conduct unbecoming a sitcom writer? So

690
00:35:41,239 --> 00:35:44,640
Speaker 2: he does his time for forgery paper, she's a correction exactly.

691
00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:47,960
Speaker 2: He got out. He decided he wanted to make a comeback.

692
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:50,960
Speaker 2: He'd written a play when he was inside.

693
00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:51,560
Speaker 3: Of course.

694
00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:55,200
Speaker 2: It was called Hopeless Romantic, not to be confused with

695
00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:58,520
Speaker 2: the incredible nineteen ninety nine Bouncing Souls album and song

696
00:35:58,600 --> 00:35:59,200
Speaker 2: of the same name.

697
00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:00,560
Speaker 3: Thank you very legit.

698
00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:03,000
Speaker 2: That's a great album. It's got bullying the jukebox and

699
00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:04,040
Speaker 2: Night on Earth.

700
00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:05,840
Speaker 3: On it good classing.

701
00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:10,480
Speaker 2: Now, this was some stupid play. I have no idea

702
00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:13,160
Speaker 2: what it was about. But in twenty ten he decided

703
00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:16,040
Speaker 2: to hold a reading of the play. He rented Center

704
00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:19,200
Speaker 2: Stage Theater in Santa Barbara for it. Uh huh. From

705
00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:23,400
Speaker 2: The Independent quote Terry Ball, executive director of center Stage

706
00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:26,120
Speaker 2: said Cunis wanted to give the knight's proceeds back to

707
00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:29,240
Speaker 2: the playhouse, which she agreed to, but Ball said Cunis

708
00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:33,000
Speaker 2: went around town falsely representing Center Stage at the time

709
00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:36,040
Speaker 2: it was about to celebrate its twentieth anniversary and trying

710
00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:40,200
Speaker 2: to raise money for it. So he goes into Helene

711
00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:44,120
Speaker 2: Schneider's office, you know who that is, Mayor of Santa

712
00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:47,200
Speaker 2: Barbara at the time, and he convinces her to save

713
00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:50,479
Speaker 2: the date. He wants her there not just to watch,

714
00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:54,800
Speaker 2: but also to read a proclamation commending center Stage's success

715
00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:58,400
Speaker 2: and his success such economy, because that was just as important.

716
00:36:59,040 --> 00:37:00,360
Speaker 2: He also wanted to.

717
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:02,279
Speaker 3: Wear a sash, says Mayor of.

718
00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:05,480
Speaker 2: Santa He wanted her to present a check for fifteen

719
00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:07,920
Speaker 2: thousand dollars, big check that he said he had an

720
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:10,600
Speaker 2: investor who wanted to give that to the theater, of course,

721
00:37:10,719 --> 00:37:13,759
Speaker 2: and she's like, all right, she shows up, she does

722
00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:17,400
Speaker 2: her mayoral duties, she spoke, she read the proclamation, She's like,

723
00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:19,600
Speaker 2: all right, where's the check, will hand it over. There's

724
00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:22,640
Speaker 2: no check, Like on with the show, just keep going.

725
00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:24,200
Speaker 3: I forgot to make a check.

726
00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:26,759
Speaker 2: So he made around seven hundred and fifty bucks at

727
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:30,840
Speaker 2: the door that night. Most of it came from himself

728
00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:33,040
Speaker 2: because he bought up these huge blocks of tickets for

729
00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:35,840
Speaker 2: his friends. The theater never saw a dime. He's like,

730
00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:36,680
Speaker 2: I'll give it all back to you.

731
00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:38,520
Speaker 3: They never saw her, of course, not imagine it's like one

732
00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:41,200
Speaker 3: hundred seat theater or something. So he's like judging eight

733
00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:41,919
Speaker 3: bucks or whatever.

734
00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:42,239
Speaker 5: Yeah.

735
00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:44,800
Speaker 2: He wrote checks to the actors and the stage folks

736
00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:47,520
Speaker 2: for their work. All the checks down, of course, and

737
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:51,680
Speaker 2: it wasn't account was empty. It was because the routing

738
00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:54,600
Speaker 2: numbers on the checks were correct, but they connected to

739
00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:58,040
Speaker 2: an East Coast bank account that didn't exist. Oh wow,

740
00:37:58,080 --> 00:37:59,080
Speaker 2: fake everything fast.

741
00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:02,040
Speaker 3: I thought. He was like that payment, No, it wasn't

742
00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:04,040
Speaker 3: even from a real thing, had fake routing.

743
00:38:04,239 --> 00:38:06,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, so some of the people were able to track

744
00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:07,280
Speaker 2: him down.

745
00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:09,000
Speaker 3: And take off.

746
00:38:09,040 --> 00:38:11,560
Speaker 2: I think so, yeah wow, And then he was like

747
00:38:11,600 --> 00:38:13,560
Speaker 2: he scared up some cash for some of them, but

748
00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:14,120
Speaker 2: most went.

749
00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:15,839
Speaker 3: When they showed up in his door pounding on the.

750
00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:19,239
Speaker 2: Basically, and I feel like maybe Konis thought that this

751
00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:21,440
Speaker 2: was a way to get back into the good graces

752
00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:25,440
Speaker 2: of like the Hollywood set with a vanity production and recognition,

753
00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:28,120
Speaker 2: like at the expense of the Santa Barbara set.

754
00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:31,799
Speaker 3: This is such the screenwriter has like workshops and they

755
00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:33,600
Speaker 3: tell you, you know, if you want to make it

756
00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:36,440
Speaker 3: in Holly, I'll tell you so.

757
00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:39,120
Speaker 2: At the end of twenty ten, he gets busted again.

758
00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:43,840
Speaker 2: He was arrested for second degree commercial burglary. Wow, intend

759
00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:47,680
Speaker 2: to commit larceny and forgery for attempting to pass twelve

760
00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:50,360
Speaker 2: grand in bad checks at Montecito Bank Intrust.

761
00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:51,279
Speaker 3: I can't believe he's trying to do.

762
00:38:52,040 --> 00:38:54,200
Speaker 2: He got an enhancement on the charges thanks to the

763
00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:58,160
Speaker 2: prior felonies, and they should have also charged him with

764
00:38:58,239 --> 00:39:03,880
Speaker 2: what what conduct becoming a sitcom writer? So next the

765
00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:06,840
Speaker 2: next year he's at it again. March twenty eleven, he

766
00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:10,239
Speaker 2: gets arrested on a parole violation. And this is such

767
00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:13,359
Speaker 2: a good one. He is apparently swindling a friend of his.

768
00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:15,280
Speaker 3: Always with the friends.

769
00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:20,160
Speaker 2: It was a guy named Wally Roncietto, and he owned

770
00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:24,680
Speaker 2: a Santa Barbara restaurant called Cafe Buenos Aires. And Roncietto

771
00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:28,560
Speaker 2: had given him some footage of an Argentine tango violinist.

772
00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:33,000
Speaker 2: You know, as you do among friends and cunis is

773
00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:35,040
Speaker 2: like this would make for a great movie, like the

774
00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:38,600
Speaker 2: violinist life story. I don't know. Cunus is like, you

775
00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:40,960
Speaker 2: know what, I know a guy, good buddy of mine,

776
00:39:41,239 --> 00:39:44,200
Speaker 2: that guy producer, director Robert Semechis.

777
00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:47,399
Speaker 3: Wow, He's like, you seen director.

778
00:39:47,239 --> 00:39:50,680
Speaker 2: Of Romancing the Stone, Back to the Future trilogy, who

779
00:39:50,719 --> 00:39:55,360
Speaker 2: framed Roger Rabbit, Forrest Gump, contact castaway and his most

780
00:39:55,400 --> 00:40:00,640
Speaker 2: important work tales from the crypt Bordello of Blood. Okay,

781
00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:06,080
Speaker 2: okay people. So Ronchetto's blown away. Yes, he's like, I

782
00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:09,640
Speaker 2: can't believe it, and even more blown away when Cunis

783
00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:14,239
Speaker 2: forwards him an email from Zamechas and he's like, I'm

784
00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:18,359
Speaker 2: a Forrest Gump? Have you seen Bordello of Blood? I'm

785
00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:22,680
Speaker 2: all in. We are go. So Cunis then tells roncietto look.

786
00:40:23,239 --> 00:40:24,839
Speaker 2: We all we have to do is we each put

787
00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:28,080
Speaker 2: in two thousand dollars to secure a top shelf film editor,

788
00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:30,160
Speaker 2: because that's how you do it in the biz. When

789
00:40:30,200 --> 00:40:34,440
Speaker 2: you're working with Robert Zemechis, every little council film editor

790
00:40:34,520 --> 00:40:36,279
Speaker 2: you have to have four grand if you want a

791
00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:38,839
Speaker 2: good film editors walk in the door money. Yeah. So

792
00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:42,000
Speaker 2: Ronchetto cuts Cunus a check. Oh my god, but he's

793
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:46,960
Speaker 2: starting to think something's off, so he contacts Robert Zemechis himself.

794
00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:49,680
Speaker 2: That's an amazing cold call to make. I don't know

795
00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:53,520
Speaker 2: Zamechas had never heard of Cunis, knew nothing about the project.

796
00:40:53,560 --> 00:40:56,359
Speaker 2: The forwarded email was fake, of course, and the two

797
00:40:56,360 --> 00:41:00,640
Speaker 2: thousand was now cozy in Cunus's bank account. Shatto calls

798
00:41:00,680 --> 00:41:01,160
Speaker 2: the cops.

799
00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:04,480
Speaker 3: Cunus Is arrests answers or however he got.

800
00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:08,719
Speaker 2: To my god, yeah, exactly. Kuus gets arrested, charged with

801
00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:14,200
Speaker 2: theft by false pretenses and resisting arrest. On that way,

802
00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:16,440
Speaker 2: Apparently there are other victims of the con, but they

803
00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:18,040
Speaker 2: didn't want their names publicly released.

804
00:41:18,080 --> 00:41:19,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's kind of embarrassing.

805
00:41:19,160 --> 00:41:21,960
Speaker 2: Let's take a break. When we come back from these

806
00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:24,960
Speaker 2: delightful and robust ads you're about to hear, you'll be

807
00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:28,720
Speaker 2: shocked to learn that Stephen Coonis just can't help himself.

808
00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:30,160
Speaker 3: Boy can't stop.

809
00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:51,560
Speaker 2: Zaren.

810
00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:54,000
Speaker 3: I'm still hung up on him writing the last Johnny

811
00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:56,640
Speaker 3: Carson joke. I now want to go and see what

812
00:41:56,680 --> 00:41:57,120
Speaker 3: it was.

813
00:41:57,239 --> 00:41:58,879
Speaker 2: I know, I thought that I was going to pull

814
00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:00,960
Speaker 2: up the last episode, but I kind of ran out

815
00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:01,239
Speaker 2: of time.

816
00:42:01,280 --> 00:42:03,600
Speaker 3: That's all right, that's fine. I don't expect everything from you,

817
00:42:04,680 --> 00:42:05,560
Speaker 3: my little fixation.

818
00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:10,120
Speaker 2: I wanted to know, like when you say he wrote

819
00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:13,160
Speaker 2: the monologues, like I just am not buying it.

820
00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:13,920
Speaker 3: No, not at all.

821
00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:17,560
Speaker 2: I mean it's like a Bruce Valanche type thing, but legit,

822
00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:20,120
Speaker 2: but legit. I would have met like he could. If

823
00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:23,920
Speaker 2: Bruce Valanche told me I wrote all of Johnny's monologues

824
00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:25,440
Speaker 2: for the last four years of his show and I

825
00:42:25,480 --> 00:42:28,359
Speaker 2: wrote the last joke, I'd be like, Bruce Valanche, You're

826
00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:29,920
Speaker 2: a madman and I love it.

827
00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:32,000
Speaker 3: I mean that guy wrote most of the Oscars jokes

828
00:42:32,040 --> 00:42:32,760
Speaker 3: of our childhood.

829
00:42:32,840 --> 00:42:33,560
Speaker 2: Yes, exactly.

830
00:42:33,560 --> 00:42:35,879
Speaker 3: So it's like, okay, I believe him, and we've heard

831
00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:38,320
Speaker 3: of him. Yeah, everybody reference other comics.

832
00:42:37,920 --> 00:42:40,720
Speaker 2: Reference because I use it. I use him as an insult.

833
00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:43,560
Speaker 2: When someone thinks they're being funny, you say, okay, Bruce Valanche,

834
00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:45,200
Speaker 2: and then they look at you and they say, I

835
00:42:45,239 --> 00:42:46,120
Speaker 2: don't know who you're doing.

836
00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:48,680
Speaker 3: That's that's two inside baseball for me.

837
00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:53,280
Speaker 2: So anyway, we would have heard this dude. Uh speaking

838
00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:58,239
Speaker 2: of dude, Steve Kunis so to April twenty eleven, he's

839
00:42:58,280 --> 00:43:02,000
Speaker 2: at it again. Santa Barbara is apparently just like lousy

840
00:43:02,040 --> 00:43:04,040
Speaker 2: with newspapers, which is how it should be.

841
00:43:04,160 --> 00:43:06,080
Speaker 3: I know, I'm incredible the number. So far.

842
00:43:06,280 --> 00:43:08,600
Speaker 2: We've heard about the Independent and the Sound. Now we're

843
00:43:08,640 --> 00:43:11,680
Speaker 2: going to talk about the Santa Barbara Paper News Hawk

844
00:43:12,200 --> 00:43:16,239
Speaker 2: n O O z H A w K wow. Right,

845
00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:21,000
Speaker 2: that's extreme. That's like heart, that's they mean it. They

846
00:43:21,160 --> 00:43:22,520
Speaker 2: really have a let's metal.

847
00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:23,480
Speaker 3: They're about the news.

848
00:43:23,520 --> 00:43:25,919
Speaker 2: They are let's have a frank discussion about it, shall

849
00:43:25,960 --> 00:43:28,840
Speaker 2: we please? So Kunis had been submitting essays to the

850
00:43:28,840 --> 00:43:31,920
Speaker 2: paper and they're running them, of course, but then an

851
00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:34,840
Speaker 2: eagle eyed reader pointed out that they didn't seem like

852
00:43:34,880 --> 00:43:38,480
Speaker 2: original pieces, and maybe that person saw the name and

853
00:43:38,560 --> 00:43:41,160
Speaker 2: knew something had to be up. Like Santa Barbara's a

854
00:43:41,200 --> 00:43:43,960
Speaker 2: good sized city, but it's also it's a small like

855
00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:47,440
Speaker 2: people know each other and they talk where it gets around.

856
00:43:46,960 --> 00:43:49,080
Speaker 3: Gossip, and also there's like clicks, you know.

857
00:43:49,239 --> 00:43:52,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's social strata and the group in which he's

858
00:43:52,120 --> 00:43:53,880
Speaker 2: moving that would spread like wildfire.

859
00:43:53,920 --> 00:43:56,560
Speaker 3: So it's like NAPA, like you know, some people, people

860
00:43:56,600 --> 00:43:58,359
Speaker 3: are going to know other people and they're going to talk,

861
00:43:58,480 --> 00:44:01,399
Speaker 3: especially if something like this was just a using stories like.

862
00:44:01,320 --> 00:44:06,200
Speaker 2: This bozo totally so News Hawk publisher Bill mcphaden launched

863
00:44:06,200 --> 00:44:10,480
Speaker 2: an investigation, and of course he got something plagiarism. So

864
00:44:10,719 --> 00:44:14,320
Speaker 2: at least two of the essays My Children the Experts

865
00:44:14,440 --> 00:44:17,960
Speaker 2: and Don't Judge a Book by Its Cover were copied,

866
00:44:18,040 --> 00:44:21,120
Speaker 2: in some cases verbatim from pieces that ran in Newsweek,

867
00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:26,080
Speaker 2: and by the same writer both times. Not bombak No,

868
00:44:26,200 --> 00:44:30,279
Speaker 2: best selling author and Pulitzer Prize winning columnist Anna Quinlan. Oh,

869
00:44:30,560 --> 00:44:35,200
Speaker 2: he just ripped off. Bill mcphaden found that none of

870
00:44:35,200 --> 00:44:39,560
Speaker 2: the references or bona fetus that Kunis cited for himself existed.

871
00:44:39,640 --> 00:44:41,400
Speaker 3: He's got an ear for dialogue that I know he

872
00:44:41,560 --> 00:44:42,080
Speaker 3: really does.

873
00:44:42,760 --> 00:44:45,640
Speaker 2: None of the other publications, none of the awards that

874
00:44:45,719 --> 00:44:50,959
Speaker 2: he said he won, none of the Hollywood credits all fake.

875
00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:54,720
Speaker 2: There's another Santa Barbara newspaper. It turns out, the Santa

876
00:44:54,760 --> 00:44:55,760
Speaker 2: Barbara News Press.

877
00:44:56,080 --> 00:44:58,279
Speaker 3: Yes, isn't that the actual the.

878
00:44:58,280 --> 00:45:03,719
Speaker 2: Actually the paper, Cuona's had columns that ran there and

879
00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:06,960
Speaker 2: in the Santa Barbara Independent. They were also ripped off

880
00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:13,719
Speaker 2: from Newsweek. CUDA's still had actual criminal charges pending when

881
00:45:13,760 --> 00:45:17,239
Speaker 2: he's doing this and not just conduct unbecoming a sitcom writer.

882
00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:20,200
Speaker 2: Oh man, he tried to make it go away by

883
00:45:20,239 --> 00:45:24,120
Speaker 2: going away. So yeah, he skipped his court dates that

884
00:45:24,160 --> 00:45:26,319
Speaker 2: were in August of twenty eleven, and he ran off

885
00:45:26,360 --> 00:45:30,000
Speaker 2: to New Jersey with his girlfriend. The state yeah, so

886
00:45:30,080 --> 00:45:32,520
Speaker 2: the judge issued a twenty thousand dollars bench warrant for

887
00:45:32,560 --> 00:45:35,239
Speaker 2: his arrest. Police in New Jersey got word that he

888
00:45:35,320 --> 00:45:38,239
Speaker 2: was there. I don't know how, and they arrested him

889
00:45:38,239 --> 00:45:41,520
Speaker 2: a month after he ran Wow. A month later, he

890
00:45:41,560 --> 00:45:45,120
Speaker 2: pleaded guilty for the whole Tango violinist movie con thing

891
00:45:46,560 --> 00:45:49,640
Speaker 2: and fakeful and the fake checks that he tried to

892
00:45:49,680 --> 00:45:52,880
Speaker 2: run through Montecito Bank and Trust. He gets sentenced to

893
00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:56,120
Speaker 2: five years, and he said, though, if you pay back

894
00:45:56,160 --> 00:45:58,680
Speaker 2: all your victims, we'll knock it down to four years.

895
00:45:58,840 --> 00:46:00,359
Speaker 3: Okay, So I think we.

896
00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:03,239
Speaker 2: Cannot be surprised that Cunis never paid anyone back.

897
00:46:03,360 --> 00:46:04,600
Speaker 3: I am not surprised at.

898
00:46:04,440 --> 00:46:06,719
Speaker 2: First, he told the court. Yeah, I paid Everybody's cool,

899
00:46:06,920 --> 00:46:09,840
Speaker 2: it's I'll just keep going. No, No, they're busy, don't

900
00:46:09,880 --> 00:46:15,520
Speaker 2: bother them. And it was so painful, don't bring it up. So,

901
00:46:15,640 --> 00:46:19,440
Speaker 2: according to the Independent quote, Cunis told his lawyer that

902
00:46:19,520 --> 00:46:22,279
Speaker 2: his Montesito Bank and Trust victims had been paid back,

903
00:46:22,600 --> 00:46:25,799
Speaker 2: saying one of his former bosses now deceased had put

904
00:46:25,880 --> 00:46:29,279
Speaker 2: seven thousand dollars in Cunis's account. The money was then

905
00:46:29,360 --> 00:46:32,000
Speaker 2: transferred back to the right customers, and that's why his

906
00:46:32,040 --> 00:46:36,560
Speaker 2: account showed a zero balance, Cunis said. Lear, His lawyer,

907
00:46:36,600 --> 00:46:40,480
Speaker 2: claims Cunis's story was mistakenly corroborated by a bank employee

908
00:46:40,480 --> 00:46:43,600
Speaker 2: who spoke to one of his law office pairalegals. It

909
00:46:43,719 --> 00:46:46,640
Speaker 2: turns out, explained the prosecutor, who followed up with the

910
00:46:46,640 --> 00:46:49,800
Speaker 2: branch's manager, the bank had actually zeroed out the account

911
00:46:49,880 --> 00:46:54,279
Speaker 2: as part of its internal collections procedure, knowing Cutis as

912
00:46:54,280 --> 00:46:56,879
Speaker 2: I do, the prosecutor told the court, I didn't take

913
00:46:56,920 --> 00:46:59,719
Speaker 2: his word for it. Bank account records show what looked

914
00:46:59,760 --> 00:47:02,799
Speaker 2: like a deposit, which CUIs apparently claimed was money given

915
00:47:02,840 --> 00:47:05,880
Speaker 2: by a former now deceased boss, but the banks of

916
00:47:05,960 --> 00:47:08,560
Speaker 2: the account was emptied so it could report a loss

917
00:47:08,880 --> 00:47:12,880
Speaker 2: from the forge check and sent it to collections SOW.

918
00:47:13,280 --> 00:47:16,360
Speaker 2: In May of twenty twelve, Stephen Kunis gets sentenced to

919
00:47:16,560 --> 00:47:19,520
Speaker 2: five years in county jail that day.

920
00:47:19,719 --> 00:47:20,480
Speaker 3: Don't go over six wens.

921
00:47:20,520 --> 00:47:22,120
Speaker 2: I didn't think so either, But you know, if you

922
00:47:22,120 --> 00:47:27,719
Speaker 2: go to prison lockups no good under California's prison realignment legislation.

923
00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:31,160
Speaker 2: Cunis opted for at home detention, which I did not

924
00:47:31,280 --> 00:47:32,840
Speaker 2: know was a thing. That choice.

925
00:47:32,880 --> 00:47:34,799
Speaker 3: So he has like an ankle monitor and.

926
00:47:34,719 --> 00:47:37,520
Speaker 2: They just so that's what he picked. You know, it

927
00:47:37,600 --> 00:47:39,240
Speaker 2: must be nice. Check your privilege, Steve.

928
00:47:39,600 --> 00:47:41,799
Speaker 3: So this like under Jerry Brown, Like what are we

929
00:47:41,840 --> 00:47:46,640
Speaker 3: doing herewelve twelve? I think so. I think Jerry Brown

930
00:47:46,680 --> 00:47:47,480
Speaker 3: was like our governor.

931
00:47:47,520 --> 00:47:51,440
Speaker 2: Then I don't recall Zarin. Close your eyes.

932
00:47:51,719 --> 00:47:54,920
Speaker 3: Oh, I'm scared. You don't want to be in his

933
00:47:54,960 --> 00:47:55,520
Speaker 3: own prison.

934
00:47:59,600 --> 00:48:03,359
Speaker 2: It's in August twenty twelve. The Dark Knight rises as

935
00:48:03,560 --> 00:48:08,240
Speaker 2: captivating theater audiences. Call Me Maybe by Carly ray Jepson

936
00:48:08,280 --> 00:48:12,120
Speaker 2: is a top of the shirts. The Badminton World Federation

937
00:48:12,280 --> 00:48:16,240
Speaker 2: has just charged eight women's doubles players from South Korea,

938
00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:20,560
Speaker 2: China and Indonesia with quote not using one's best efforts

939
00:48:20,600 --> 00:48:25,839
Speaker 2: to win a match conduct unbecoming a badminton player. You

940
00:48:26,200 --> 00:48:29,560
Speaker 2: are a clerk at a FedEx store in Santa Barbara, California.

941
00:48:30,880 --> 00:48:34,120
Speaker 2: Today is a slow one. You've finished arranging all the

942
00:48:34,160 --> 00:48:37,160
Speaker 2: forms on the counter and have replenished all the shipping boxes.

943
00:48:37,719 --> 00:48:40,320
Speaker 2: Now you just sit there, a radio playing softly in

944
00:48:40,360 --> 00:48:43,319
Speaker 2: the background. Your notepad in front of you. You are

945
00:48:43,360 --> 00:48:47,080
Speaker 2: a student at Santa Barbara City College. You're majoring in Film,

946
00:48:47,120 --> 00:48:51,799
Speaker 2: Television and Electronic Media Associate and Science for Transfer. You

947
00:48:51,880 --> 00:48:54,600
Speaker 2: intend to transfer to UCLA next year to continue your

948
00:48:54,640 --> 00:48:58,200
Speaker 2: studies and work toward a career in Hollywood. You ultimately

949
00:48:58,280 --> 00:49:01,920
Speaker 2: wanted to erect, but right now you're working on a screenplay. Well,

950
00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:04,239
Speaker 2: you want to be working on a screenplay. You just

951
00:49:04,239 --> 00:49:07,759
Speaker 2: don't have a solid idea right now. Your notepad is

952
00:49:07,800 --> 00:49:10,680
Speaker 2: full of vague notions, but you just aren't there yet.

953
00:49:11,160 --> 00:49:13,480
Speaker 2: A professor of yours told you that all you need

954
00:49:13,560 --> 00:49:16,920
Speaker 2: is one moment, one scene that sets it all off,

955
00:49:17,200 --> 00:49:19,600
Speaker 2: not necessarily the first scene in the movie, but the

956
00:49:19,640 --> 00:49:22,600
Speaker 2: heart of it what grabs people, and you'll be able

957
00:49:22,680 --> 00:49:24,840
Speaker 2: to build it out from there. You've got to think

958
00:49:25,120 --> 00:49:28,400
Speaker 2: of that one moment, that one thing that'll stick in

959
00:49:28,440 --> 00:49:32,640
Speaker 2: people's minds, that'll grow a rich story around it. The

960
00:49:32,680 --> 00:49:35,520
Speaker 2: door chimes as a man enters the shop. He's carrying

961
00:49:35,520 --> 00:49:39,120
Speaker 2: a canvas tote bag Writer's Guild of America West. It

962
00:49:39,200 --> 00:49:42,120
Speaker 2: says on it, he must be a screenwriter. Your spine

963
00:49:42,160 --> 00:49:44,200
Speaker 2: straightens as you sit higher in your stool, and he

964
00:49:44,239 --> 00:49:47,120
Speaker 2: walks across the store to your counter. He sets his

965
00:49:47,200 --> 00:49:49,280
Speaker 2: tote bag on the counter and looks you in the eyes.

966
00:49:49,600 --> 00:49:51,880
Speaker 2: He tells you that he needs to ship something. You

967
00:49:51,920 --> 00:49:54,640
Speaker 2: tell him that's what you're here for. He tells you

968
00:49:54,640 --> 00:49:56,360
Speaker 2: he'll need a box as he pulls a scrap of

969
00:49:56,360 --> 00:49:59,439
Speaker 2: paper with an address out of his pocket. You ask

970
00:49:59,440 --> 00:50:02,480
Speaker 2: what he shipp He looks both ways and then reaches

971
00:50:02,520 --> 00:50:06,120
Speaker 2: into his bag and pulls out an electronic monitoring ankle bracelet.

972
00:50:06,719 --> 00:50:09,600
Speaker 2: The strap has been cut. You tell him that you've

973
00:50:09,600 --> 00:50:12,080
Speaker 2: got a box that'll fit that, and you reach behind you,

974
00:50:12,160 --> 00:50:14,760
Speaker 2: pulling a flatten shipping box from a stack on a shelf.

975
00:50:15,160 --> 00:50:18,360
Speaker 2: He slides the paper over to you. Santa Barbara County

976
00:50:18,400 --> 00:50:22,759
Speaker 2: Sheriff's Office four four three four Kaye Real, Santa Barbara, California,

977
00:50:22,840 --> 00:50:26,200
Speaker 2: nine three one one zero. You ask about the sender's address.

978
00:50:26,560 --> 00:50:29,160
Speaker 2: He tells you just to use the store's address name

979
00:50:29,200 --> 00:50:33,880
Speaker 2: of sender. He looks at you, Stephen Kunis. He stammers

980
00:50:33,920 --> 00:50:35,880
Speaker 2: a bit and tells you that he found the monitor

981
00:50:35,920 --> 00:50:38,200
Speaker 2: on the ground at the beach. He just wanted to

982
00:50:38,239 --> 00:50:41,080
Speaker 2: get it back to the authorities. You ask how he

983
00:50:41,120 --> 00:50:44,600
Speaker 2: knows it's from the Sheriff's office. He pauses, says it's

984
00:50:44,600 --> 00:50:47,800
Speaker 2: the most logical owner. You ask, why aren't you just

985
00:50:47,920 --> 00:50:50,440
Speaker 2: dropping it off at the station. He tells you he's

986
00:50:50,520 --> 00:50:52,080
Speaker 2: late for a bus and he's got to get going.

987
00:50:52,920 --> 00:50:54,560
Speaker 2: No time to head all the way out to the

988
00:50:54,560 --> 00:50:58,360
Speaker 2: sheriff's office building. Okay, you say. You fill out the

989
00:50:58,360 --> 00:51:01,880
Speaker 2: shipping form, your pens scratching on the triplicate papers. The

990
00:51:01,920 --> 00:51:05,040
Speaker 2: man looks at your notepad. You quickly construct the box,

991
00:51:05,040 --> 00:51:07,600
Speaker 2: put the ankle monitor inside and seal it up. You

992
00:51:07,640 --> 00:51:10,080
Speaker 2: slap the shipping form on the outside and enter all

993
00:51:10,080 --> 00:51:13,480
Speaker 2: the addresses into the computer. It spits out a shipping label,

994
00:51:13,520 --> 00:51:15,400
Speaker 2: and you tell the man how much he owes. He

995
00:51:15,480 --> 00:51:18,520
Speaker 2: hands you cash as he puts the change into his wallet.

996
00:51:18,560 --> 00:51:20,680
Speaker 2: He looks again at the notepad and asks you what

997
00:51:20,719 --> 00:51:25,080
Speaker 2: you're working on? Screenplay. You tell him, ah, his eye's brightened.

998
00:51:25,200 --> 00:51:27,839
Speaker 2: Do you need help with that? No, you tell him,

999
00:51:28,120 --> 00:51:30,840
Speaker 2: I've got it, I've got the moment I need. He

1000
00:51:30,880 --> 00:51:33,080
Speaker 2: looks at you a little quizzically and then nods. He

1001
00:51:33,160 --> 00:51:35,920
Speaker 2: turns and leaves the store. You flip to a blank

1002
00:51:35,960 --> 00:51:38,440
Speaker 2: page on your notepad and you begin to furiously write

1003
00:51:38,800 --> 00:51:41,960
Speaker 2: interior shipping off this morning we see a man walk in.

1004
00:51:42,320 --> 00:51:44,600
Speaker 2: He's got a tote bag over his shoulder and inside

1005
00:51:44,680 --> 00:51:46,719
Speaker 2: is the ankle monitor. He's just cut off his leg

1006
00:51:46,719 --> 00:51:51,320
Speaker 2: with a bowie knife. Clerk, Can I help you? Yes,

1007
00:51:51,560 --> 00:51:56,280
Speaker 2: says Saren. Four months went by with Kunis on the run,

1008
00:51:57,400 --> 00:52:01,960
Speaker 2: and one evening he was at the Palms Restaurant in Carpentia,

1009
00:52:02,000 --> 00:52:05,920
Speaker 2: just twelve miles down the road from Santa Barbara, super close.

1010
00:52:06,280 --> 00:52:09,480
Speaker 2: A lady saw him and recognized him. She called the

1011
00:52:09,480 --> 00:52:11,840
Speaker 2: Sheriff's office. Next thing he knows he's doing two and

1012
00:52:11,880 --> 00:52:13,600
Speaker 2: a half years at Wasco State Prison.

1013
00:52:13,719 --> 00:52:14,719
Speaker 3: Lady recognized him.

1014
00:52:14,800 --> 00:52:15,799
Speaker 2: Lady recognized him.

1015
00:52:15,840 --> 00:52:17,680
Speaker 3: I think it was from one of the theater things.

1016
00:52:18,320 --> 00:52:20,040
Speaker 3: Probably I went to the worst show.

1017
00:52:22,400 --> 00:52:24,840
Speaker 2: So he got out in June of twenty fifteen. He

1018
00:52:24,920 --> 00:52:27,279
Speaker 2: was supposed to report to his probation officer and he

1019
00:52:27,320 --> 00:52:27,560
Speaker 2: did not.

1020
00:52:28,520 --> 00:52:28,960
Speaker 3: Shocking.

1021
00:52:29,040 --> 00:52:32,320
Speaker 2: That gets you a warrant. He had actually left Santa

1022
00:52:32,320 --> 00:52:35,200
Speaker 2: Barbara County this time went back to Pennsylvania, where his

1023
00:52:35,239 --> 00:52:39,000
Speaker 2: parents were still living. He refused to stay under the radar, though.

1024
00:52:39,360 --> 00:52:42,000
Speaker 2: He came up with a concept for a show. No

1025
00:52:42,560 --> 00:52:45,759
Speaker 2: he'd be the executive producer. It was called over my

1026
00:52:45,920 --> 00:52:46,560
Speaker 2: Dead Body.

1027
00:52:46,760 --> 00:52:49,200
Speaker 3: Okay, this is not a play that got the theaters show.

1028
00:52:49,239 --> 00:52:50,279
Speaker 3: This is a TV show.

1029
00:52:50,360 --> 00:52:53,040
Speaker 2: This is a TV show, and the premise is at

1030
00:52:53,080 --> 00:52:57,840
Speaker 2: the host interviews famous dead people because they can't sue.

1031
00:52:58,280 --> 00:53:00,800
Speaker 2: Voiceover actors play the dead celebrity.

1032
00:53:00,400 --> 00:53:02,479
Speaker 3: Of course, get the Mark Twain.

1033
00:53:02,680 --> 00:53:06,280
Speaker 2: Yes. So Kunas was promoting the show and the Bucks

1034
00:53:06,320 --> 00:53:08,399
Speaker 2: County Courier Times reported on it.

1035
00:53:09,239 --> 00:53:10,919
Speaker 3: He's doing like public access TV.

1036
00:53:12,680 --> 00:53:14,840
Speaker 2: Well no, he's going around saying that it's going to

1037
00:53:14,840 --> 00:53:18,080
Speaker 2: be on Netflix, okay, and that Bill Maher is going

1038
00:53:18,120 --> 00:53:18,760
Speaker 2: to be the host.

1039
00:53:19,120 --> 00:53:19,720
Speaker 3: Oh wow.

1040
00:53:20,200 --> 00:53:21,960
Speaker 2: And he told people there would be all these like

1041
00:53:22,000 --> 00:53:24,920
Speaker 2: a list celebrities coming on and they'd be filming in

1042
00:53:24,960 --> 00:53:30,680
Speaker 2: the area, according to levittownnow dot com. Quote after publication,

1043
00:53:30,800 --> 00:53:34,240
Speaker 2: the newspaper published that they discovered Kunis had lied about

1044
00:53:34,280 --> 00:53:38,720
Speaker 2: the project. A correction noted a Netflix representative denied Cunis

1045
00:53:38,760 --> 00:53:43,479
Speaker 2: was involved in any series they were producing. So now

1046
00:53:43,560 --> 00:53:45,960
Speaker 2: that his name was out there and he was being

1047
00:53:46,200 --> 00:53:49,960
Speaker 2: publicly called out on his shenanigans, the cops are onto him.

1048
00:53:50,080 --> 00:53:53,120
Speaker 2: They arrested him in January of twenty sixteen. Quote while

1049
00:53:53,160 --> 00:53:57,759
Speaker 2: picking up a package from a post office box location. Yeah,

1050
00:53:57,760 --> 00:54:01,520
Speaker 2: so he gets extradited to California, he did his time again.

1051
00:54:01,600 --> 00:54:03,799
Speaker 2: He had time to rethink things, and you know what

1052
00:54:03,800 --> 00:54:08,279
Speaker 2: that means book Ted talk. Oh he he did a

1053
00:54:08,320 --> 00:54:12,120
Speaker 2: TEDx talk in twenty twenty one. That's not a real test.

1054
00:54:12,520 --> 00:54:16,239
Speaker 2: I no, it's like part of It's like they're kind

1055
00:54:16,280 --> 00:54:21,120
Speaker 2: of like franchisee spinoff thing. He's in front of a

1056
00:54:21,160 --> 00:54:23,960
Speaker 2: green screen and there's no audience, but it's to look

1057
00:54:24,000 --> 00:54:26,040
Speaker 2: like he's on a stage, and then there's like fake

1058
00:54:26,080 --> 00:54:28,920
Speaker 2: applause at the end. Wow, it is a little creepy.

1059
00:54:28,960 --> 00:54:29,279
Speaker 4: You know why?

1060
00:54:29,480 --> 00:54:30,560
Speaker 3: I think cringey? Yeah.

1061
00:54:30,800 --> 00:54:34,400
Speaker 2: Yeah. In it, he shares that by his sixtieth birthday

1062
00:54:34,520 --> 00:54:37,239
Speaker 2: in twenty sixteen, he was out of jail, but he

1063
00:54:37,320 --> 00:54:40,040
Speaker 2: had no car, no credit card, no home, and only

1064
00:54:40,040 --> 00:54:42,560
Speaker 2: four hundred and eighty three dollars in his bank account.

1065
00:54:43,400 --> 00:54:45,160
Speaker 2: He wrote his own oh bit, and he was ready

1066
00:54:45,200 --> 00:54:47,960
Speaker 2: to pack it in, but then a bolt of inspiration.

1067
00:54:48,880 --> 00:54:51,359
Speaker 2: He had a conversation with a childhood friend and they

1068
00:54:51,360 --> 00:54:53,200
Speaker 2: came up with an idea for a talk show where

1069
00:54:53,200 --> 00:54:56,560
Speaker 2: they interview their fantasy guests, all of whom happened to

1070
00:54:56,560 --> 00:54:59,760
Speaker 2: be dead, but they talked to them like they're alive, Okay,

1071
00:55:00,040 --> 00:55:03,239
Speaker 2: over my dead body. So uh and that's what that

1072
00:55:03,360 --> 00:55:07,319
Speaker 2: guy who he said was the Warner Music president. Yeah,

1073
00:55:07,320 --> 00:55:10,239
Speaker 2: he's got a he's got a credit on this. That's

1074
00:55:10,239 --> 00:55:11,600
Speaker 2: his only IMDb credit.

1075
00:55:13,520 --> 00:55:16,359
Speaker 3: So, uh, did that guy have like a hard time

1076
00:55:16,920 --> 00:55:17,640
Speaker 3: drug problems?

1077
00:55:18,160 --> 00:55:23,440
Speaker 2: I think that maybe fabulous as well. I believe it

1078
00:55:23,480 --> 00:55:27,040
Speaker 2: was on YouTube, not Netflix, and I think you can

1079
00:55:27,120 --> 00:55:32,600
Speaker 2: buy episodes to watch on Amazon Prime. There's six episodes. Yeah,

1080
00:55:32,640 --> 00:55:35,640
Speaker 2: it appears to also now be a podcast, and I

1081
00:55:35,680 --> 00:55:38,840
Speaker 2: couldn't bring myself to listen. I'm just I'm so sorry.

1082
00:55:39,160 --> 00:55:42,800
Speaker 2: There's some things like I would like implode from the cringing.

1083
00:55:44,440 --> 00:55:48,440
Speaker 2: The guests include May West, Steve Jobs, the cast of

1084
00:55:48,480 --> 00:55:53,879
Speaker 2: The Wizard of Oz, Mark Twain, Richard Nixon, Tupac. How

1085
00:55:53,920 --> 00:55:55,480
Speaker 2: offensive do you think the Tupac is?

1086
00:55:55,800 --> 00:55:57,400
Speaker 3: Don't get me started. I was staying away from.

1087
00:55:58,880 --> 00:56:02,319
Speaker 2: Quotes Norman lear As saying about the show, quote, this

1088
00:56:02,400 --> 00:56:04,480
Speaker 2: is the best idea for a TV series that I

1089
00:56:04,480 --> 00:56:07,040
Speaker 2: can remember. It's absolutely hilarious.

1090
00:56:07,360 --> 00:56:09,880
Speaker 3: And this is I assume after normally passed. If he

1091
00:56:09,920 --> 00:56:13,080
Speaker 3: passed like right around the twenty nineteen, twenty twelve.

1092
00:56:12,920 --> 00:56:15,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know, so who knows. I'm gonna guess

1093
00:56:15,560 --> 00:56:17,879
Speaker 2: that he never said it either way. Yeah, Saren, what's

1094
00:56:17,880 --> 00:56:19,000
Speaker 2: your ridiculous takeaway?

1095
00:56:21,200 --> 00:56:24,759
Speaker 3: I mean, like, when you're creative, right and you can

1096
00:56:24,840 --> 00:56:27,560
Speaker 3: you have an air for dialogue. Yes, you would think

1097
00:56:27,600 --> 00:56:30,440
Speaker 3: that he would come up with better cons. His cons

1098
00:56:30,440 --> 00:56:34,520
Speaker 3: are so lazy and so like, I think you're a sucker.

1099
00:56:34,560 --> 00:56:35,960
Speaker 3: So I'm going to lower the bar of what I

1100
00:56:36,040 --> 00:56:39,319
Speaker 3: have to do to convince you, Like, is it him

1101
00:56:39,480 --> 00:56:42,080
Speaker 3: is it his respect for his audience? I can't tell.

1102
00:56:42,239 --> 00:56:46,320
Speaker 2: I thought he would be far more magnetic in person,

1103
00:56:46,560 --> 00:56:48,279
Speaker 2: and then I watched his ted talk.

1104
00:56:48,520 --> 00:56:51,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, just not No, I'm kind of like I imagine,

1105
00:56:51,560 --> 00:56:53,640
Speaker 3: kind of awkward, kind of like one of those guys

1106
00:56:53,680 --> 00:56:56,640
Speaker 3: where you're like, he doesn't talk to other people often.

1107
00:56:56,600 --> 00:56:59,040
Speaker 2: He's very he comes across as very sincere.

1108
00:56:59,360 --> 00:57:03,200
Speaker 3: Oh what's surprising and you and you.

1109
00:57:03,120 --> 00:57:05,279
Speaker 2: Get the sense like he's had a tough time, like

1110
00:57:05,280 --> 00:57:10,240
Speaker 2: there all about reinventing yourself at the age of sixty, okay,

1111
00:57:10,400 --> 00:57:12,960
Speaker 2: And but at the same time, it's like I feel

1112
00:57:12,960 --> 00:57:16,080
Speaker 2: like he's not being honest with himself. That's part of

1113
00:57:16,120 --> 00:57:18,720
Speaker 2: the weird and he's not honest as we see like

1114
00:57:19,080 --> 00:57:22,200
Speaker 2: with everybody, and so I don't know what's going on

1115
00:57:22,440 --> 00:57:24,760
Speaker 2: like with that, but yeah, I think that you.

1116
00:57:24,760 --> 00:57:26,760
Speaker 3: Kind of have to know people if you really want

1117
00:57:26,800 --> 00:57:28,680
Speaker 3: to manipulate the way that he wants to. And he

1118
00:57:28,720 --> 00:57:30,400
Speaker 3: seems like he doesn't take the time to really get

1119
00:57:30,440 --> 00:57:31,000
Speaker 3: to know other.

1120
00:57:30,840 --> 00:57:33,360
Speaker 2: People well, and he seems to be trying to like

1121
00:57:34,520 --> 00:57:40,800
Speaker 2: pass like you know, and also ran Hollywood Life on

1122
00:57:41,360 --> 00:57:43,520
Speaker 2: by people who weren't involved in this, so like they

1123
00:57:43,520 --> 00:57:44,800
Speaker 2: hear names and it goes you.

1124
00:57:44,760 --> 00:57:48,240
Speaker 3: Know, I met people I used to when in one

1125
00:57:48,240 --> 00:57:51,200
Speaker 3: of the times I was in Hollywood. I uh, this

1126
00:57:51,400 --> 00:57:53,920
Speaker 3: is weird, but like I had a sidecart and I

1127
00:57:53,960 --> 00:57:55,920
Speaker 3: pretended I didn't because I needed work, and so I

1128
00:57:55,960 --> 00:57:58,120
Speaker 3: would go and sit around with extras thinking I could

1129
00:57:58,160 --> 00:58:01,240
Speaker 3: just like work real quick, and it worked fantastically, and

1130
00:58:01,320 --> 00:58:03,360
Speaker 3: all the other extras hated me because I kept getting

1131
00:58:03,360 --> 00:58:04,920
Speaker 3: like pushed to the front and they're like, oh, you

1132
00:58:05,000 --> 00:58:07,560
Speaker 3: got screen time. And I felt so bad for so

1133
00:58:07,600 --> 00:58:08,920
Speaker 3: many of them because the would sit there and just

1134
00:58:09,160 --> 00:58:11,200
Speaker 3: obviously lie to me about things that I had even

1135
00:58:11,280 --> 00:58:14,680
Speaker 3: taken part with, or I know you're lying, but they

1136
00:58:14,680 --> 00:58:16,960
Speaker 3: would just so earnestly and they wanted It's like this

1137
00:58:17,120 --> 00:58:19,760
Speaker 3: proximity to success or to fame, and I'm like, you

1138
00:58:19,800 --> 00:58:23,280
Speaker 3: do realize that's why you're not having the proximity because

1139
00:58:23,400 --> 00:58:26,040
Speaker 3: you think that you can just you think everybody lies

1140
00:58:26,080 --> 00:58:26,440
Speaker 3: down here.

1141
00:58:26,880 --> 00:58:29,040
Speaker 2: I'm no, it's not like that, not like that, but

1142
00:58:29,080 --> 00:58:31,640
Speaker 2: they do. And I think that is misleading to people

1143
00:58:31,760 --> 00:58:34,800
Speaker 2: that people do not tell the truth in Hollywood. Sure,

1144
00:58:34,920 --> 00:58:37,840
Speaker 2: and like deals go forward based on all these like

1145
00:58:37,960 --> 00:58:43,680
Speaker 2: lies but easily proved right, that's where the lie exactly.

1146
00:58:44,000 --> 00:58:46,440
Speaker 2: And so if you're not like in that expert level

1147
00:58:46,520 --> 00:58:48,520
Speaker 2: of them, you just think, well, they lie.

1148
00:58:48,720 --> 00:58:51,440
Speaker 3: And also it's a lot of like lying by omission

1149
00:58:51,520 --> 00:58:54,360
Speaker 3: as or lying by allowing you to create and fill

1150
00:58:54,360 --> 00:58:56,040
Speaker 3: in the live for them. They don't give you all

1151
00:58:56,040 --> 00:58:58,000
Speaker 3: the details. They kind of like hint at where.

1152
00:58:57,800 --> 00:59:00,920
Speaker 2: They were and lie exactly.

1153
00:59:01,040 --> 00:59:03,400
Speaker 3: A lot of like unfinished thoughts turn into lies and

1154
00:59:03,440 --> 00:59:04,920
Speaker 3: they let you do the work for it. It's like

1155
00:59:05,000 --> 00:59:05,840
Speaker 3: Hitchcock lying to you.

1156
00:59:07,400 --> 00:59:09,840
Speaker 2: If you're not savvy, you know you're not going to

1157
00:59:09,920 --> 00:59:12,200
Speaker 2: see that you Well, we lie here.

1158
00:59:12,400 --> 00:59:14,360
Speaker 3: And also they don't get they don't know people, so

1159
00:59:14,360 --> 00:59:17,520
Speaker 3: they don't get the idea that you can't lie to

1160
00:59:17,560 --> 00:59:20,520
Speaker 3: someone if you don't understand them, not really, not successfully.

1161
00:59:20,600 --> 00:59:22,800
Speaker 3: And they don't they think that people are paper thin.

1162
00:59:22,880 --> 00:59:24,520
Speaker 3: I'm like, I don't know if that's a comment on you.

1163
00:59:24,920 --> 00:59:26,280
Speaker 2: What exactly.

1164
00:59:28,040 --> 00:59:29,080
Speaker 3: What's yours? Elizabeth?

1165
00:59:29,840 --> 00:59:36,080
Speaker 2: Mine is that uh, you know, just I don't think

1166
00:59:36,120 --> 00:59:40,040
Speaker 2: people understand how embarrassed I get for them when they

1167
00:59:40,120 --> 00:59:40,400
Speaker 2: do this.

1168
00:59:41,280 --> 00:59:42,680
Speaker 3: I do not think they understand it.

1169
00:59:42,800 --> 00:59:45,520
Speaker 2: No, No, I'm just embarrassed for him, and for that

1170
00:59:45,600 --> 00:59:56,200
Speaker 2: I need to talk back. Yeah, Oh my god, I lo.

1171
01:00:01,000 --> 01:00:05,360
Speaker 6: Hi's Aaron Elizabeth Producery. My name's Naja. I'm a longtime listener,

1172
01:00:05,400 --> 01:00:08,600
Speaker 6: first time caller. I've been here since the Avalonia diver

1173
01:00:08,800 --> 01:00:12,360
Speaker 6: first episode came out, and I'm just really really grateful

1174
01:00:12,480 --> 01:00:15,360
Speaker 6: for just all the content, all.

1175
01:00:15,280 --> 01:00:18,000
Speaker 5: The laughs, all the knowledge over the past couple of years,

1176
01:00:19,440 --> 01:00:22,720
Speaker 5: and just keep being you guys, because there is so

1177
01:00:22,760 --> 01:00:24,600
Speaker 5: many places in the world where we just don't have

1178
01:00:24,720 --> 01:00:26,200
Speaker 5: laughter or spacer community.

1179
01:00:26,280 --> 01:00:29,000
Speaker 6: So it's Onnesday, thank you and say hi, and keep

1180
01:00:29,040 --> 01:00:29,760
Speaker 6: doing what you're doing.

1181
01:00:30,800 --> 01:00:34,920
Speaker 2: Yes, thank you so much, amazing, thank you there for

1182
01:00:34,960 --> 01:00:38,240
Speaker 2: so long. Thank you. Yes, I got it. You know,

1183
01:00:38,640 --> 01:00:41,560
Speaker 2: when I hear things like this, like I remember when

1184
01:00:41,560 --> 01:00:42,680
Speaker 2: we first started, I was like.

1185
01:00:42,680 --> 01:00:44,919
Speaker 3: Nost You're legitimately said that.

1186
01:00:45,000 --> 01:00:47,720
Speaker 2: I honestly didn't think so. So this is you know

1187
01:00:47,760 --> 01:00:50,000
Speaker 2: when people talk about how you know we can all

1188
01:00:50,080 --> 01:00:52,800
Speaker 2: laugh together and you guys get to laugh with us,

1189
01:00:52,840 --> 01:00:55,280
Speaker 2: and uh, it means a lot.

1190
01:00:55,680 --> 01:00:58,840
Speaker 3: It really means a lot, and it's absolutely truthful because

1191
01:00:59,200 --> 01:01:01,640
Speaker 3: we are laughing right there with you, even though we're

1192
01:01:01,640 --> 01:01:04,240
Speaker 3: not physically there with you. I think we're finding humor

1193
01:01:04,240 --> 01:01:05,560
Speaker 3: in the same place completely.

1194
01:01:06,000 --> 01:01:07,720
Speaker 2: And we see too from like a lot of the

1195
01:01:07,800 --> 01:01:10,960
Speaker 2: notes that you guys forward on on Instagram and stuff,

1196
01:01:11,000 --> 01:01:14,680
Speaker 2: but we all have to see love it. So yeah,

1197
01:01:14,720 --> 01:01:16,760
Speaker 2: thank you for that. That was really sweet and that

1198
01:01:17,080 --> 01:01:20,080
Speaker 2: you know we need. We need sweetness and laughter and happiness.

1199
01:01:20,200 --> 01:01:24,240
Speaker 2: So let's make it for ourselves. Uh, that's it for today.

1200
01:01:24,440 --> 01:01:27,760
Speaker 2: You can find us online at ridiculous Crime dot com.

1201
01:01:28,240 --> 01:01:32,520
Speaker 2: We're also at Ridiculous Crime on Blue Sky and on Instagram.

1202
01:01:32,920 --> 01:01:36,000
Speaker 2: We're on YouTube at Ridiculous Crime Pod. And you can

1203
01:01:36,080 --> 01:01:39,480
Speaker 2: email us at ridiculous Crime at gmail dot com. And

1204
01:01:40,120 --> 01:01:42,520
Speaker 2: I'm always going to close with it. Leave a talkback

1205
01:01:42,560 --> 01:01:45,000
Speaker 2: on a free iHeart app reach out. We want to

1206
01:01:45,040 --> 01:01:52,440
Speaker 2: hear you. Ridiculous Crime is hosted by Elizabeth Dutton and

1207
01:01:52,520 --> 01:01:56,120
Speaker 2: Zaren Burnett, produced and edited by the actual host. Inside

1208
01:01:56,120 --> 01:02:01,160
Speaker 2: the Johnny Carson costume Dave Kusten, starring Annals as Judith

1209
01:02:01,360 --> 01:02:05,120
Speaker 2: with uncredited assistants by Stephen Coonis. Research is by head

1210
01:02:05,120 --> 01:02:08,800
Speaker 2: writer for Happy Days Marisa Brown and executive creative director

1211
01:02:08,840 --> 01:02:12,160
Speaker 2: for laugh Tracks on Mister Belvidere Jabari Davis. The theme

1212
01:02:12,200 --> 01:02:15,360
Speaker 2: song is by Ed McMahon, enthusiast Thomas Lee and doc

1213
01:02:15,440 --> 01:02:19,360
Speaker 2: Severnson Truther Travis Dunton. Post wardrobe is provided by Botany

1214
01:02:19,360 --> 01:02:22,800
Speaker 2: five hundred guest Haron, makeup by Sparkleshot and mister Andre.

1215
01:02:23,240 --> 01:02:27,280
Speaker 2: Executive producers are author of the autobiography of Ja Jagabor

1216
01:02:27,440 --> 01:02:31,400
Speaker 2: Ben Bollen and TV executive with an extensive and highly

1217
01:02:31,400 --> 01:02:35,320
Speaker 2: classified IMDb page requiring a secret password, No.

1218
01:02:35,600 --> 01:02:46,760
Speaker 4: Breath, gidus clime, say It One More Timequeus Crime.

1219
01:02:47,880 --> 01:02:51,280
Speaker 1: Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeartRadio four more podcasts.

1220
01:02:51,360 --> 01:02:54,520
Speaker 1: My Heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or

1221
01:02:54,560 --> 01:02:56,320
Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.