WEBVTT - Open Mike Eagle on Life Beyond the Mainstream 0:00:17.424 --> 0:00:29.144 Bushkin. Hey everybody, it's me W Cambell. Welcome back to 0:00:29.184 --> 0:00:33.704 my podcast, Who's with Me? Episode twelve, featuring today's guest 0:00:34.024 --> 0:00:38.384 open Mike Eagle, rapper and Twitch streamer and good talker. 0:00:39.024 --> 0:00:40.623 I really admire people who know how to keep the 0:00:40.623 --> 0:00:43.544 ball up in the air. Mike streams on Twitch. You'll 0:00:43.543 --> 0:00:45.543 follow him on Twitch. I don't know what that is. 0:00:45.584 --> 0:00:46.583 I mean, I know what it is, but I don't 0:00:46.584 --> 0:00:48.704 know how to follow people there. But he's really good 0:00:48.704 --> 0:00:50.424 at keeping the ball up in the air. This is 0:00:50.424 --> 0:00:53.263 a great conversation. You might notice that I'm sort of 0:00:53.264 --> 0:00:55.184 excited at the beginning because I hadn't really had a 0:00:55.224 --> 0:00:56.104 conversation with Mike before. 0:00:56.104 --> 0:00:57.224 I know, he said a lot. 0:00:57.424 --> 0:00:58.984 But Mike and somebody I have just sort of known 0:00:59.024 --> 0:01:03.184 perfetly through the years and always admired him. And also 0:01:03.224 --> 0:01:06.624 whenever I'm around black men who I feel like we 0:01:06.744 --> 0:01:09.783 have sort of a common background, don't you know. I 0:01:09.824 --> 0:01:11.424 have not been around a ton of those types of 0:01:11.424 --> 0:01:13.544 black dudes in my life, I mean more as an adult. 0:01:13.624 --> 0:01:15.464 But whenever I'm around black dudes are I'm like, oh, yeah, 0:01:15.503 --> 0:01:17.264 you kind of grew up like me not to be 0:01:17.344 --> 0:01:18.703 in my group. The same way, but we do have 0:01:18.744 --> 0:01:21.664 some common similarities In there, I get a little bit 0:01:21.704 --> 0:01:23.144 too excited. So I was a little bit too excited 0:01:23.144 --> 0:01:25.423 in this episode at someone. I had to be like, 0:01:25.744 --> 0:01:29.024 calm down, Jamal. Jamal's what I call myself when I'm 0:01:29.344 --> 0:01:33.263 criticizing myself. Nothing, there's anything wrong with the name Jamal. 0:01:33.264 --> 0:01:35.144 I've really gone off the track. Anyway, Before we get 0:01:35.184 --> 0:01:37.344 too deep into this stand up comedy dates, I'm gonna 0:01:37.344 --> 0:01:39.624 do this off top of my head September twenty fifth 0:01:39.663 --> 0:01:43.464 and twenty six in Stamford, Connecticut at the New York 0:01:43.464 --> 0:01:48.384 Comedy Club. October first at Stanford University at the Stanford 0:01:48.383 --> 0:01:53.624 Memorial Theater, and then November thirteenth in Bellingham, Washington at 0:01:53.624 --> 0:01:56.664 the Mount Baker Theater. Get your tickets at wcmal Bell 0:01:56.744 --> 0:01:59.744 dot com or Google however you want to do it. 0:02:00.104 --> 0:02:03.624 Tickets still available. Please get your tickets so I can 0:02:03.663 --> 0:02:06.184 still keep doing stand up comedy. Also hoping that people 0:02:06.184 --> 0:02:08.024 who listen to the podcast also comes to me do 0:02:08.144 --> 0:02:10.104 stand up. Maybe there's new people who were just meeting 0:02:10.104 --> 0:02:12.184 me through this comes to me, you stand up. I 0:02:12.264 --> 0:02:16.584 hope that's true. So here's the thing. Everybody my opinions 0:02:17.104 --> 0:02:20.864 sometimes get me into a little bit of a Internet controversy, 0:02:20.864 --> 0:02:21.624 as to say hot water. 0:02:21.703 --> 0:02:23.823 It's not real hot water, it's just Internet controversy. 0:02:24.144 --> 0:02:25.784 And you know, some of the stuff has happened through 0:02:25.784 --> 0:02:28.023 the podcast, also through my substack, which is also named 0:02:28.024 --> 0:02:31.784 pos with Me, you know, or just sometimes I get 0:02:32.144 --> 0:02:33.784 you know, my opinions are what I do gets me 0:02:33.784 --> 0:02:35.543 a lot of extra attention, Like through the podcast. That 0:02:35.624 --> 0:02:38.784 Ted Danson interview that was the second episode got a 0:02:38.823 --> 0:02:41.423 lot of attention, which means I had a lot of 0:02:41.464 --> 0:02:44.383 people on my ig and my Instagram at w Combbell 0:02:44.504 --> 0:02:47.944 with a lot of opinions about ted Danson apologizing for blackface. 0:02:48.584 --> 0:02:51.664 So I, you know, stand by that episode. 0:02:51.663 --> 0:02:54.103 But then also sort of around that same time, I 0:02:54.103 --> 0:02:55.784 mean we've talked about a lot of the podcast, just 0:02:55.823 --> 0:03:00.263 a lot of like uh, Kevin Hart Roast talk that 0:03:00.383 --> 0:03:02.663 sort of just as we were recording the episodes that 0:03:02.703 --> 0:03:04.424 was out in the out in the world. Then I 0:03:04.424 --> 0:03:07.584 wrote a big substack about it. I declared that the 0:03:07.663 --> 0:03:10.024 Roast was dead, and I just didn't know that that 0:03:10.184 --> 0:03:12.944 was a big deal, but people maybe because I'm a comedian, 0:03:13.263 --> 0:03:15.703 but you know, as many people pointed out Michael Harriet, 0:03:15.744 --> 0:03:17.824 the great Michael Harriet, who you can also find on 0:03:17.904 --> 0:03:19.944 substack and also out in the world, point out that 0:03:20.024 --> 0:03:23.104 ross aren't really a significant part of stand up comedy. 0:03:23.103 --> 0:03:25.264 They're just a thing that happens. But somehow stand up 0:03:25.263 --> 0:03:27.744 comedians who do rosa acted like it's a part of 0:03:27.784 --> 0:03:31.823 the tradition that we need. And so that got me 0:03:31.864 --> 0:03:35.104 into a lot of like hot water with the Rogan sphere, 0:03:36.064 --> 0:03:38.024 the comedians and the and the people who are fans 0:03:38.064 --> 0:03:40.064 of that. I mean again, not hot water, because I 0:03:40.064 --> 0:03:41.743 stand by what I said, so the water doesn't feel 0:03:41.744 --> 0:03:42.144 that hot. 0:03:43.864 --> 0:03:44.624 And then. 0:03:46.824 --> 0:03:48.544 Look, I just thought it wasn't a good look for 0:03:49.664 --> 0:03:52.504 Nate Barghetzi to be at the UFC event on the 0:03:52.544 --> 0:03:54.024 White House lawn. I didn't think it was a good 0:03:54.024 --> 0:03:56.904 look for anybody. But you know, it was my choice 0:03:56.944 --> 0:03:59.824 to talk about Nate Barghesti, who's a comedian who, like 0:03:59.824 --> 0:04:01.064 I think I've met him once or twice. 0:04:01.744 --> 0:04:02.944 No, I know I've met him once or twice. 0:04:02.944 --> 0:04:07.064 And again, it's not even about me criticizing him a 0:04:07.104 --> 0:04:08.704 little bit. It's about that, but it's also just about, 0:04:08.704 --> 0:04:10.784 hey man, that's not a good look, even if you 0:04:10.824 --> 0:04:14.264 are if you're trying to sell you know, arenas what 0:04:14.424 --> 0:04:16.224 you are and you're trying to open amusement parks. 0:04:16.264 --> 0:04:17.184 Maybe you don't do that. 0:04:17.144 --> 0:04:19.824 But people really took that to heart, and I don't know, 0:04:19.944 --> 0:04:22.384 I felt like I turned on comedy. I've heard, you know, 0:04:22.424 --> 0:04:24.424 I've heard some comedians we're not happy about me. Actually 0:04:24.424 --> 0:04:26.424 stumbled across one the other day on Instagram. Who's like 0:04:26.504 --> 0:04:29.184 calling Nate Barghetti a fascist is like calling w com 0:04:29.224 --> 0:04:34.264 Out Bell a comedian. And I just thought, ah, you 0:04:34.344 --> 0:04:37.704 need better writers. Yeah, I am a comedian, and we 0:04:37.744 --> 0:04:40.144 come in all shapes and sizes and flavors. And I'm 0:04:40.224 --> 0:04:42.024 very clear of the tradition of comedy. I walk in 0:04:42.064 --> 0:04:44.064 and just because your comedian does't mean you're funny to everybody. 0:04:44.104 --> 0:04:45.784 That's not That's just how it works. So I'm not 0:04:45.864 --> 0:04:48.664 here trying to like act like I don't think it's 0:04:48.944 --> 0:04:51.744 comedy is about just about how many tickets you sell, 0:04:52.944 --> 0:04:55.944 you know, uh, And it'll be clear, do whatever kind 0:04:55.944 --> 0:04:56.824 of comedy you want to do. 0:04:57.024 --> 0:04:59.784 It's just, you know, and I have opinions about it. Anyway. 0:05:00.304 --> 0:05:03.144 People had feeling especially again comics had feelings about it. 0:05:04.704 --> 0:05:07.424 And then Leslie Jones was on the podcast. 0:05:07.464 --> 0:05:10.664 A couple of weeks ago, and man, we put out 0:05:10.664 --> 0:05:12.984 a clip that episode where she was really just she 0:05:13.144 --> 0:05:15.984 was talking about Ghostbusters, but then she started preaching about 0:05:16.304 --> 0:05:18.064 why are you so upset that women are in a 0:05:18.104 --> 0:05:20.743 Ghostbusters movie? And then it went to don't you think 0:05:20.904 --> 0:05:24.064 writers want their writings to be reinterpreted? Like Shakespeare and 0:05:24.144 --> 0:05:28.584 Charles Dickens, And then it ended on God created a 0:05:28.624 --> 0:05:31.264 little bit of everything, so we should just be prepared 0:05:31.264 --> 0:05:33.424 for whatever the world has for us. And it was 0:05:33.504 --> 0:05:40.664 just beautiful. It was a beautiful, like inspiring, well put 0:05:40.704 --> 0:05:44.224 together rant that also just felt like, like I said, 0:05:44.224 --> 0:05:47.984 it felt like she was preaching. And man, so many 0:05:47.984 --> 0:05:51.984 people we posted that thing up on ig Ig seems 0:05:51.984 --> 0:05:53.344 to be the new hub of the trolls. 0:05:53.384 --> 0:05:55.104 I think they all left Twitter because Twitter got boring, 0:05:55.144 --> 0:05:55.624 so they've. 0:05:55.464 --> 0:05:57.904 Sort of moved to ig a little bit to threads too, 0:05:58.304 --> 0:06:02.944 But so many internet trolls were just like Ghostbusters was bad, 0:06:02.784 --> 0:06:06.224 the all women Ghostbusters was bad. And some people were 0:06:06.224 --> 0:06:09.984 like it was like treated the original Ghostbuster movies like 0:06:10.024 --> 0:06:12.424 it was somehow a sacred text, like it was like 0:06:12.464 --> 0:06:14.864 she had somehow like she had her and the women 0:06:14.864 --> 0:06:17.184 who are in Ghostbusters that somehow like mess with one 0:06:17.224 --> 0:06:21.624 of the sacred texts of humanity. And you know, my 0:06:21.664 --> 0:06:24.624 favorite response to someone's like, you know, Ghostbusters two sucked, right, 0:06:24.704 --> 0:06:27.904 Like we all think that Ghostbusters too with the dudes 0:06:28.264 --> 0:06:30.384 was not a good movie, Like it has the Bobby 0:06:30.384 --> 0:06:32.504 Brown song, but that's about it. 0:06:33.024 --> 0:06:35.584 So like and and here's the other part. 0:06:35.784 --> 0:06:38.944 It was. My ig comvers section was also flooded with 0:06:39.024 --> 0:06:43.183 people who were like, oh my god, the Ghostbusters all women. 0:06:43.224 --> 0:06:47.064 Ghostbusters is my favorite, because of course, because that's how 0:06:47.104 --> 0:06:49.224 it works. Parents were like I showed it to my daughter, 0:06:49.664 --> 0:06:51.504 or people were like, I never got into the original. 0:06:51.544 --> 0:06:53.863 Because of course people liked it. Just because the movie 0:06:53.944 --> 0:06:56.624 again didn't make a ton of money and I don't 0:06:56.624 --> 0:06:58.384 know how much money made or wasn't a critical hit 0:06:58.584 --> 0:07:01.024 doesn't mean people are gonna like, aren't gonna like love 0:07:01.064 --> 0:07:04.464 it or like it like it's so funny. I'm old 0:07:04.704 --> 0:07:08.224 now to see things go from like eh to like oh, 0:07:08.264 --> 0:07:11.584 like I hate to tell you all this, but like 0:07:11.904 --> 0:07:13.664 lots of things I've seen in my life go from 0:07:13.664 --> 0:07:16.584 like ah to like, oh we like that now, nostalgia 0:07:16.664 --> 0:07:19.304 we like that, or oh we've had a chance to 0:07:19.304 --> 0:07:20.384 sit with this and we like it. 0:07:20.384 --> 0:07:22.064 That's the whole idea behind a cult movie. 0:07:22.064 --> 0:07:24.264 It's a movie that like, originally was ignored and then 0:07:24.264 --> 0:07:27.184 people really found value it and we all understand that 0:07:27.224 --> 0:07:31.304 when it's our cult movie. You know, they just made 0:07:31.344 --> 0:07:33.384 shout out to the Waynes brother Jes just made another 0:07:33.424 --> 0:07:38.664 scary movie. And those those first scary movies, they weren't 0:07:38.744 --> 0:07:41.304 like monster, huge mega hits. It's just the people who 0:07:41.424 --> 0:07:43.744 liked them liked them, and they were never really reviewed 0:07:43.784 --> 0:07:44.264 all that well. 0:07:44.264 --> 0:07:47.344 And this is not me, this is about how things 0:07:47.344 --> 0:07:47.944 are reviewed. 0:07:47.984 --> 0:07:50.344 And guess what. Eventually, some people are like, we want 0:07:50.384 --> 0:07:51.984 another scary movie, and the waves were like, would you 0:07:52.064 --> 0:07:53.984 like another scary movie? And they're like, yeah, we would, 0:07:53.984 --> 0:07:56.104 and they made another one and it was It's made 0:07:56.144 --> 0:07:58.464 over one hundred million dollars, and guess what, it still 0:07:58.464 --> 0:08:03.504 didn't get great reviews everywhere. Just because the culture has 0:08:03.544 --> 0:08:06.504 scare culls doesn't like something doesn't mean that that are 0:08:06.624 --> 0:08:08.104 there are people who like it. And I think you 0:08:08.144 --> 0:08:10.224 see it with black stuff all the time. You see 0:08:10.224 --> 0:08:12.664 it with anything that's not appealing to straight white men, 0:08:12.744 --> 0:08:16.544 you know. And so the all women Ghostbusters just also 0:08:16.704 --> 0:08:19.944 came out at a time when the alt right internet 0:08:20.264 --> 0:08:24.024 that later became the Manisphere, and Maga was really starting 0:08:24.064 --> 0:08:27.224 to like feel itself. So like the ben Shapiros and 0:08:27.264 --> 0:08:30.744 the mileu Ianopolises really were like felt like they finally 0:08:30.744 --> 0:08:32.264 were being black, see what would happen? 0:08:32.304 --> 0:08:33.503 They were feeling themselves well, so. 0:08:33.463 --> 0:08:36.463 They were being u astro tarrifted by billionaires so they 0:08:36.463 --> 0:08:38.264 could take a lot of space on the internet. They 0:08:38.304 --> 0:08:41.184 were really feeling themselves really, and so Miley the Anapolis 0:08:41.224 --> 0:08:44.864 made it his point to like take down Leslie specifically, 0:08:45.184 --> 0:08:47.384 like of course, because she was the one black person 0:08:47.424 --> 0:08:50.463 in the movie The Black Woman, and really like like 0:08:50.463 --> 0:08:53.264 like she was doxed, she was harassed, and there's a 0:08:53.343 --> 0:08:56.863 version of Leslie Jones that never recovers from that, because 0:08:56.904 --> 0:08:58.584 that happens to people when you go through some shit 0:08:58.703 --> 0:09:00.983 on the you know, through in the public eye, where 0:09:01.024 --> 0:09:03.384 you just are you are, You're never the same. But 0:09:03.544 --> 0:09:05.223 the thing you could see from my interview with Leslie 0:09:05.264 --> 0:09:09.944 Jones that she is just as loud and proud and abuliant. 0:09:10.103 --> 0:09:12.023 I think I'm saying that, well, can somebody let me 0:09:12.064 --> 0:09:17.024 know abuliant as she ever was? And she's not tripping. 0:09:17.103 --> 0:09:18.624 But it was so funny to me that there's just 0:09:18.664 --> 0:09:21.703 an aspect of kind of person mostly dudes who just 0:09:21.784 --> 0:09:23.824 want to argue on the thing they care about, not 0:09:23.904 --> 0:09:26.784 about like it's okay that a woman to go expressors exist, 0:09:26.944 --> 0:09:31.424 it's about I didn't like it. Okay, a lot of 0:09:31.463 --> 0:09:35.023 people did, but I didn't like it. Okay, a lot 0:09:35.024 --> 0:09:38.824 of people did, but I didn't like it. Years ago, 0:09:40.103 --> 0:09:42.424 I remember this was when the Vagina Monologues was big. 0:09:42.944 --> 0:09:45.343 I went to see like a production of Vagina Monologues 0:09:45.384 --> 0:09:49.424 with my then girlfriend future wife, and afterwards, I remember 0:09:49.424 --> 0:09:50.944 she asked me my opinion and I was like, I 0:09:50.983 --> 0:09:56.544 don't know that I'm supposed to have And at the time, 0:09:56.583 --> 0:09:58.304 I don't think I phrased it well, but what I 0:09:58.304 --> 0:09:59.703 was really saying was like, I don't think that was 0:09:59.743 --> 0:10:02.304 for me, and I'm okay with that, Like because I 0:10:02.304 --> 0:10:03.983 felt like I don't know what I would say about it. 0:10:03.983 --> 0:10:05.944 It wouldn't sound like I was somehow trying to push 0:10:05.944 --> 0:10:08.424 the Vagina logs through my man brain and make it 0:10:08.463 --> 0:10:10.024 make sense in a way that it's like, I don't 0:10:10.064 --> 0:10:12.863 think that that was written for me to understand it, 0:10:12.863 --> 0:10:14.583 And that's fine, that's fine. 0:10:14.664 --> 0:10:15.944 You see it in music all the time. 0:10:15.983 --> 0:10:17.904 I remember I used to be a young person who's like, 0:10:18.024 --> 0:10:20.824 pop music is bad, boy bands are bad just because 0:10:21.064 --> 0:10:22.944 they weren't the music I liked, And you realize, what 0:10:22.983 --> 0:10:23.504 are you doing? 0:10:24.544 --> 0:10:25.664 Let people enjoy their. 0:10:25.504 --> 0:10:27.703 Thing unless you have something to say, like something to 0:10:27.703 --> 0:10:30.824 say about like I don't like how Justin Timberlake treated 0:10:30.863 --> 0:10:33.784 Janet Jackson after the super Bowl, and he also happens 0:10:33.824 --> 0:10:36.904 to be in a boy band, but not like just 0:10:36.983 --> 0:10:40.503 I don't like that whole thing. So men get caught 0:10:40.544 --> 0:10:42.264 up in their opinions, and then they want to share 0:10:42.264 --> 0:10:44.463 their opinions. And so I ended up fighting the comments 0:10:44.463 --> 0:10:47.264 slot on ig go to my itg at Wombell, not fighting, 0:10:47.304 --> 0:10:49.503 but just really like making it clear that like I'm 0:10:49.544 --> 0:10:51.583 not gonna hear I'm not gonna let you just do that. 0:10:52.504 --> 0:10:55.703 So anyway, having said that, I also spend more time 0:10:55.703 --> 0:10:57.983 on the comments on YouTube. I'm reading them, but I'm 0:10:57.983 --> 0:11:00.783 not engaging because I just I've been I've spent so 0:11:00.863 --> 0:11:02.663 much in my life being a lurker on YouTube that 0:11:02.743 --> 0:11:04.424 it's hard to like actually leave comments. 0:11:04.463 --> 0:11:06.863 But I'll start leaving comments on these videos. I make that. 0:11:07.544 --> 0:11:09.583 I claim that today, So look for me in the 0:11:09.583 --> 0:11:12.064 comments on the YouTube videos. Also, I can subscribe and 0:11:12.144 --> 0:11:15.863 hype do all the things and uh next my conversation 0:11:15.983 --> 0:11:18.343 with open Mic Eagle. I just like to do it 0:11:18.343 --> 0:11:20.343 a lot, and I enjoyed talking to him. Hope to 0:11:20.343 --> 0:11:22.784 talk to him some more. We talked a little bit 0:11:22.784 --> 0:11:25.143 about how he came and saw Fishbone with me in 0:11:25.264 --> 0:11:27.064 La when they performed at the Garami Museum. 0:11:27.064 --> 0:11:29.463 Shout out to Fishbone, Fishbone. 0:11:30.703 --> 0:11:32.544 But that was the most we'd ever really hung out, 0:11:32.544 --> 0:11:34.944 although he does remind me that I did his podcast 0:11:34.983 --> 0:11:37.104 at one point, which I was like, I'd totally forgotten about, 0:11:37.103 --> 0:11:39.664 because the we'll talk about why've forgotten about? Nothing against him, 0:11:39.743 --> 0:11:41.344 just about mostly against where I was in my life 0:11:41.343 --> 0:11:43.944 at that point. He is always on tour. You can 0:11:43.983 --> 0:11:46.463 check him out his I didn't notice. He has a 0:11:46.463 --> 0:11:48.463 new album coming out. His last album that is out now, 0:11:48.504 --> 0:11:52.783 called Neighborhood Gods Unlimited is out right now, and then 0:11:52.824 --> 0:11:56.944 his next album, which releases very shortly after you hear this, 0:11:57.064 --> 0:12:02.024 is called Doomed and it releases on August thirteenth. So yeah, 0:12:02.784 --> 0:12:05.744 great to have open Mic Eagle on. You can see 0:12:05.743 --> 0:12:07.304 at the beginning I like him so much, I'm actually 0:12:07.304 --> 0:12:10.583 acting weird, so I settled down eventually, But yeah, shout 0:12:10.583 --> 0:12:12.704 out to Open My Eagle. Also check out his podcast 0:12:12.703 --> 0:12:15.743 with Anna Marie Cox called Past Do. Check him out 0:12:15.784 --> 0:12:19.824 on Twitch. He's on social media. He's on YouTube. Check 0:12:19.863 --> 0:12:22.624 him out here. If you're on YouTube, he posts things 0:12:22.664 --> 0:12:24.264 on YouTube where he just talks about things in the 0:12:24.264 --> 0:12:25.184 culture's interested in. 0:12:25.504 --> 0:12:28.384 He's just a one stop shop and he's great anyway. Enjoy. 0:12:29.304 --> 0:12:31.504 Hey, thanks for watching an episode of Who's with Me. 0:12:31.664 --> 0:12:35.223 If you're on YouTube, please like and subscribe, share, hit 0:12:35.264 --> 0:12:37.424 the hype button. I hear it makes all the difference. 0:12:37.623 --> 0:12:48.024 Please like, subscribe, share, hit the hype button. Thank you. 0:12:51.664 --> 0:12:55.824 I'll tell you I'm five ten. Really, people you carry 0:12:55.824 --> 0:12:56.703 yourself taller than that. 0:12:56.743 --> 0:13:01.264 Oh that's good. That's the years of practice. Yeah, maybe 0:13:01.304 --> 0:13:02.743 they got a big old I. 0:13:02.664 --> 0:13:03.264 Was definitely like this. 0:13:03.583 --> 0:13:07.304 I think also people carry themselves taller and shorter. That 0:13:07.343 --> 0:13:09.223 has nothing to do with their height. Yeah, because I 0:13:09.264 --> 0:13:12.144 will literally people have known for years will not see 0:13:12.184 --> 0:13:14.703 me for a little while, and I will see them like, man, 0:13:14.703 --> 0:13:17.424 come on, when'd you get so tall? Like you're still growing? Yeah, 0:13:18.264 --> 0:13:19.983 I think it's just like I don't walk around like 0:13:20.824 --> 0:13:22.463 you don't. People on top of the head a lot. 0:13:22.623 --> 0:13:25.263 Now you should probably do it. Like once a year, 0:13:25.343 --> 0:13:26.984 just to let people. Don't lift people up and go 0:13:27.024 --> 0:13:30.944 look at you down there, look at you, hey, Tom Cruise, 0:13:31.664 --> 0:13:34.864 put me down. It's not the way you get Movie 0:13:34.944 --> 0:13:38.544 roles haven't done any of the Mission Impossible movies because 0:13:38.784 --> 0:13:40.624 I picked him up the first time I met him. 0:13:40.944 --> 0:13:43.223 Uh yeah, so I think. But anyway, so anyway, the 0:13:43.264 --> 0:13:45.264 first thing I want to say is you are You're 0:13:45.304 --> 0:13:47.384 not as tall as I thought you were. Okay, well 0:13:48.264 --> 0:13:48.583 I don't. 0:13:48.623 --> 0:13:50.824 I'm going to be spending the rest of our conversation 0:13:50.944 --> 0:13:51.703 processing that. 0:13:52.064 --> 0:13:55.064 It makes me feel so many ways. It once all 0:13:55.184 --> 0:13:57.703 right for real though, thank you for doing this, Thank 0:13:57.743 --> 0:14:00.104 you for having me. No, I appreciate thank you for. 0:14:00.904 --> 0:14:03.784 Being willing to talk to people less famous than Ted Dancing. 0:14:04.384 --> 0:14:07.184 That's really nice to you. You don't have to do that. 0:14:07.264 --> 0:14:08.504 You could be Ted dancing. 0:14:08.824 --> 0:14:12.264 Or that's the bar, that's the bar. Good. Yeah, I 0:14:12.264 --> 0:14:15.863 appreciate it. Yeah, well, well I appreciate you appreciating that. 0:14:15.983 --> 0:14:17.424 I have to say, it's not exactly what I thought 0:14:17.424 --> 0:14:20.424 about this, like what's the bar? But I do like 0:14:20.464 --> 0:14:24.304 thinking that, like it's it is it between you two? Well, 0:14:24.384 --> 0:14:24.744 I don't. 0:14:24.784 --> 0:14:26.544 I would not like to think of myself as the 0:14:26.544 --> 0:14:26.944 low bar. 0:14:27.064 --> 0:14:29.383 No, You're not the low bar. So then I'm just 0:14:29.424 --> 0:14:31.624 saying that's the bar. I'm not saying. Yeah, No, I 0:14:31.624 --> 0:14:33.944 will go lower than you. I promise over the course 0:14:33.984 --> 0:14:36.104 of this podcast, I will go much lower than Mike. 0:14:36.304 --> 0:14:38.224 I think I really love it if we change the subject. 0:14:39.904 --> 0:14:42.224 Really cool, Do you do that? No? I do actually 0:14:42.224 --> 0:14:45.144 want to start this with start every episode giving people 0:14:45.184 --> 0:14:47.344 their flowers. Oh I like flowers, so let's do that, 0:14:47.344 --> 0:14:49.784 because what we just did was not that. So that's 0:14:49.824 --> 0:14:51.864 not what I meant to do. It's just I get 0:14:51.864 --> 0:14:55.864 caught up in things. I so I don't remember. I 0:14:55.904 --> 0:14:58.504 know we met around the time I was on Totally Biased, 0:14:58.704 --> 0:15:02.224 that I visited you in the office while you guys 0:15:02.264 --> 0:15:03.024 were in production. 0:15:03.864 --> 0:15:06.464 I know, I don't remember it because I was crazy then. 0:15:06.624 --> 0:15:06.824 Yeah. 0:15:06.824 --> 0:15:09.504 It was a wild time. Yeah, it was a wild time. 0:15:09.504 --> 0:15:10.984 I think I was friends with a lot of people 0:15:11.104 --> 0:15:12.424 on your staff at that time too. 0:15:12.504 --> 0:15:14.184 Yeah, and I think I can think also the connection 0:15:14.224 --> 0:15:16.464 game through Hannibal maybe probably. 0:15:17.624 --> 0:15:19.824 Oh my gosh, why can't I remember her name right now? 0:15:19.864 --> 0:15:22.064 But she was a writer on your show who I 0:15:22.104 --> 0:15:24.304 was working a lot with in LA at the time, 0:15:25.024 --> 0:15:27.944 Eliza Skinner. Yes, yes, Yeah, shout out to Eliza Skinner, 0:15:27.984 --> 0:15:31.544 She's yeah, I believe she was very instrumental in mean. 0:15:31.664 --> 0:15:34.864 Yeah, Now, I remember like at the time being like, oh, 0:15:34.864 --> 0:15:38.744 that guy's he seems good, and my whole thing was like, 0:15:38.904 --> 0:15:40.584 how do I make the show better? Can that guy 0:15:40.584 --> 0:15:43.664 be on the show, but then never being able to 0:15:43.704 --> 0:15:44.944 grab all the pieces. 0:15:44.904 --> 0:15:46.464 You want to You had a lot you were trying 0:15:46.504 --> 0:15:49.784 to do. I think this was right after it went 0:15:49.904 --> 0:15:52.424 like five nights a week or something, so it was 0:15:52.624 --> 0:15:54.744 nutty in there. I remember it was nuts. 0:15:54.864 --> 0:15:55.304 Yeah. 0:15:55.424 --> 0:15:57.304 It is a defining part of my life of like, 0:15:57.704 --> 0:15:59.584 I don't ever want to do show biz like that again. 0:15:59.744 --> 0:16:00.384 I understand. 0:16:00.464 --> 0:16:03.984 I also, so shortly after you had that show, I 0:16:04.024 --> 0:16:07.584 had my show, The New Negroes, which is another experience 0:16:07.664 --> 0:16:09.744 that I don't want to have another one like that again. 0:16:09.824 --> 0:16:13.344 Yeah. So this brings me Pier two flowers. There's a 0:16:13.344 --> 0:16:16.944 way in which I see you out in the world 0:16:17.584 --> 0:16:20.224 very fiercely doing what you want to do the way 0:16:20.304 --> 0:16:23.864 you want to do it. And I know, and I 0:16:24.304 --> 0:16:25.944 think I told you this, I think I did it. 0:16:26.184 --> 0:16:28.784 But like when I would and saw you live open 0:16:28.824 --> 0:16:32.424 for clipping recently in Berkeley, and I was telling my wife, 0:16:32.464 --> 0:16:34.304 and she wasn't familiar with your music, and I was like, 0:16:34.904 --> 0:16:36.104 do you remember what I told you? I said to her, 0:16:36.104 --> 0:16:37.984 I do remember what you said? 0:16:38.304 --> 0:16:41.064 You said, He's like, if he's like me, if I 0:16:41.104 --> 0:16:43.104 wrapped talking about yourself. 0:16:43.344 --> 0:16:45.224 I mean as a way to sort of communicate what 0:16:45.344 --> 0:16:47.224 kind of wrap she was getting into, that's a really 0:16:47.624 --> 0:16:49.784 smart way to do it. Yeah, I mean it's you know, 0:16:49.784 --> 0:16:52.424 even whether it's true or not, it certainly she was like, Okay, 0:16:52.464 --> 0:16:54.584 I get it. And then I don't think I would 0:16:54.624 --> 0:16:55.904 be like you if I was a rapper, but I 0:16:55.904 --> 0:16:58.704 do think that I would be taking an alternate path. 0:16:58.784 --> 0:17:01.184 Like yeah, so it wasn't about how you did, it 0:17:01.184 --> 0:17:03.023 was about that's the path you take. Yeah. 0:17:03.064 --> 0:17:05.504 I think it's about the spirit of the thing. Yeah, yeah, 0:17:05.544 --> 0:17:07.504 you know, I think I think we approached things with 0:17:07.584 --> 0:17:08.584 a similar spirit. 0:17:08.744 --> 0:17:09.023 Yeah. 0:17:09.144 --> 0:17:09.704 Yeah. 0:17:09.744 --> 0:17:12.744 And so I really having seen you since Toty biased 0:17:13.224 --> 0:17:17.144 and having seen you just clearly like I'm over here. 0:17:17.984 --> 0:17:20.584 Think about that, like I'm over here, I know everything. No, 0:17:20.664 --> 0:17:22.704 there's a lot over there, so much over There's so 0:17:22.824 --> 0:17:24.744 much over there. It's like they're having so much fun. 0:17:25.504 --> 0:17:27.224 They claim to have a lot of fun over there. 0:17:27.984 --> 0:17:31.424 There's lots, but I'm over here, and I know being 0:17:31.424 --> 0:17:33.664 a person who's also over here. You know, I live 0:17:33.704 --> 0:17:35.744 in Oakland, which is even more like I'm over here, 0:17:35.744 --> 0:17:37.584 which is a version of ib over here because I'm 0:17:37.624 --> 0:17:41.344 not in LA or New York, but just the idea 0:17:41.344 --> 0:17:44.704 of like how how hard that is to always be 0:17:44.784 --> 0:17:49.064 over there, but also ultimately there's satisfaction in being over 0:17:49.104 --> 0:17:51.023 there because you're very clear where you're supposed to be. 0:17:51.504 --> 0:17:55.104 Yeah, And what I find about myself is, you know, 0:17:55.224 --> 0:17:57.744 I live in LA, but I'm still over there. Exactly 0:17:57.864 --> 0:17:59.744 when I go to New York, I'm still over there. 0:17:59.824 --> 0:18:00.303 Yeah, you know. 0:18:00.544 --> 0:18:04.304 So it's like it's it's it's a it's a sort 0:18:04.344 --> 0:18:07.304 of spiritual geography that I take with me kind of 0:18:07.344 --> 0:18:09.944 wherever I go. And you know, I might be at 0:18:09.944 --> 0:18:13.344 a party with a bunch of people who are not 0:18:13.424 --> 0:18:16.464 over there, but even when I'm over there, yeah, I'm 0:18:16.504 --> 0:18:16.984 over there. 0:18:17.064 --> 0:18:19.664 Yeah, even at that party, you're probably in the room 0:18:19.664 --> 0:18:22.464 at that party that's the over there room. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, 0:18:22.504 --> 0:18:24.783 I think I am the room in there. 0:18:25.024 --> 0:18:25.384 I was. 0:18:25.544 --> 0:18:27.944 I think I was born over there, and so I 0:18:28.024 --> 0:18:30.664 sort of knew from a early age. I can't get 0:18:30.864 --> 0:18:34.584 I can't get there. I'm over you know, I can't 0:18:34.624 --> 0:18:39.304 get here. I'm mixing up the metaphors. But yeah, but anyway, 0:18:39.464 --> 0:18:41.424 I knew that there was a place where everybody was 0:18:41.504 --> 0:18:45.384 coagulating and assembling and I maybe get close, but I 0:18:45.424 --> 0:18:48.104 knew that I don't belong with those people. Not that 0:18:48.144 --> 0:18:50.384 I can't enjoy myself sometimes, not that I don't enjoy 0:18:50.504 --> 0:18:53.104 some of what comes out of that, but like you know, 0:18:53.904 --> 0:18:57.024 I was very aware that, like that's not for me, 0:18:57.304 --> 0:18:58.624 and so early on I was like, so I got 0:18:58.624 --> 0:19:00.584 to stop even pretending like I'm going that way. 0:19:00.704 --> 0:19:03.064 You know, was it the same for you or were you? 0:19:03.184 --> 0:19:05.424 Were you with all the people and then you left 0:19:05.544 --> 0:19:08.864 or were you always like the outside the party? 0:19:08.984 --> 0:19:11.784 I was with all of the people because there was 0:19:11.824 --> 0:19:15.104 a point in my life where the people is all 0:19:15.144 --> 0:19:18.984 I knew. So I knew, I knew how to speak people, 0:19:19.824 --> 0:19:22.543 so so I could move around, okay, But I always 0:19:22.544 --> 0:19:26.624 felt a little off right. It was really It wasn't 0:19:26.664 --> 0:19:32.064 really until I discovered like the underground hip hop community 0:19:32.064 --> 0:19:35.864 in Chicago, like the dudes who was breakdancing, graffiti and 0:19:36.064 --> 0:19:40.624 DJing and freestyle. And when I found this group of 0:19:40.664 --> 0:19:47.344 people and I found the the real meritocracy of that too. 0:19:47.464 --> 0:19:50.384 It was like, Oh, I can just be over here 0:19:50.424 --> 0:19:52.504 with people who like music that I like, and if 0:19:52.544 --> 0:19:55.504 I practice and apply myself to getting good at these 0:19:55.584 --> 0:19:58.744 weird activities that we all seem to love doing, then 0:19:58.784 --> 0:20:00.664 I got a little thing for myself and I can 0:20:00.704 --> 0:20:04.224 feel I can build a sense of selfhood based on 0:20:04.784 --> 0:20:10.664 my accomplishments and my dedication to these arts. And that's 0:20:10.664 --> 0:20:13.424 when my my over thereness felt really complete. 0:20:13.624 --> 0:20:16.424 Okay, so it sounds like you weren't kid who grew 0:20:16.504 --> 0:20:18.144 up saying I Am going to grow up and be 0:20:18.144 --> 0:20:18.624 a rapper. 0:20:18.864 --> 0:20:21.024 No, Okay, I was. I used to be kind of 0:20:21.064 --> 0:20:22.864 scared of rap music when I was a little kid. 0:20:22.944 --> 0:20:25.023 I mean, so I'm a little bit older than you, 0:20:25.104 --> 0:20:28.064 so I have I have the entire like rap from 0:20:28.104 --> 0:20:31.224 like the no rap, a little bit of rap, a 0:20:31.224 --> 0:20:32.384 few rap, you know what I mean. So I had 0:20:32.384 --> 0:20:35.104 the whole soul, so I can understand. I was born 0:20:35.184 --> 0:20:37.864 and was around yeah see yeah, no, I was. I'm 0:20:37.864 --> 0:20:41.224 like seven years older than you. So I remember like 0:20:41.504 --> 0:20:43.984 the radio and being like I said hip hop and 0:20:43.984 --> 0:20:47.184 I was like, wait, what did he say? A hip hop? 0:20:47.664 --> 0:20:49.263 Heady to the heavy to hip hop? Is that what 0:20:49.304 --> 0:20:52.024 he that seems different? You know, Like I remember that 0:20:52.104 --> 0:20:54.704 moment when that was like a like a like a 0:20:54.744 --> 0:20:58.664 sea change, and I remember like, oh, Curtis Plow was 0:20:58.704 --> 0:21:01.944 fun and run DMC is fun. And then slowly but 0:21:02.024 --> 0:21:04.584 surely I was, I was. I was thinking about this 0:21:04.584 --> 0:21:06.144 as I was going to talk to you, Like I 0:21:06.224 --> 0:21:09.624 remember when rap was a fad, and when rap was 0:21:09.664 --> 0:21:12.384 like rap is for for musicians who don't know how 0:21:12.384 --> 0:21:14.784 to sing. That was a famous Like a lot of 0:21:14.824 --> 0:21:19.224 people still feel that way. Sure, I think they're probably 0:21:19.264 --> 0:21:22.744 they're they're not. They're not They're not at either party. 0:21:22.624 --> 0:21:28.584 They're the manisphere. But like, so what, so talk about 0:21:28.584 --> 0:21:30.624 your version of what you when you grew up. 0:21:30.864 --> 0:21:33.464 So the first rap song I ever heard in my life, 0:21:34.544 --> 0:21:37.704 I got in the car with my mom and she 0:21:37.864 --> 0:21:43.624 was playing easy so I had to I couldn't have 0:21:43.624 --> 0:21:46.024 been older than eight. That was seven or eight years ye, 0:21:46.304 --> 0:21:50.024 that's late eighties. Yeah, and I guess I must have 0:21:50.104 --> 0:21:52.824 heard some rap, but like, this is the first time 0:21:52.904 --> 0:21:57.064 I remember like listening to what a rapper was saying 0:21:57.464 --> 0:22:00.384 and I was so confused, Yeah, because it was like 0:22:00.664 --> 0:22:01.944 he's saying these words, am. 0:22:01.864 --> 0:22:03.944 I supposed to be hearing these words, Why is my 0:22:03.984 --> 0:22:04.864 mother playing this? 0:22:04.904 --> 0:22:05.704 Is this a test? 0:22:06.104 --> 0:22:09.504 Like, I no no way to wrap my head around it. 0:22:09.544 --> 0:22:13.904 And he sounded so interesting to me. He sounded like 0:22:13.904 --> 0:22:18.624 a little cartoon character talking about doing violent crimes. It 0:22:18.704 --> 0:22:23.064 really was something and the theater of the mind that 0:22:23.184 --> 0:22:26.624 started happening. I was like, Wow, this is really something else. 0:22:26.664 --> 0:22:27.104 And then. 0:22:28.504 --> 0:22:35.064 I have an older step sibling who was four or 0:22:35.064 --> 0:22:38.384 five years older than me but a huge hip hop head, 0:22:39.184 --> 0:22:44.064 so coming and spending summers with her, coming to visit. 0:22:44.104 --> 0:22:49.064 My dad just just had every tape you could think of, 0:22:50.184 --> 0:22:50.984 had everything. 0:22:51.064 --> 0:22:56.304 And so this is eighty seven, eighty eight, I mean 0:22:56.304 --> 0:22:59.464 this is still like there's still debate about is rap 0:22:59.464 --> 0:23:01.224 a real thing? What we're like ello cool j. 0:23:02.104 --> 0:23:06.784 Yeah, I mean we're into slick Rick, Rockham, Big Daddy Kane, 0:23:07.584 --> 0:23:09.744 Like that's the stuff that's really popping at the time. 0:23:09.904 --> 0:23:14.504 You know, bismarcky is uh is big, and n w 0:23:14.544 --> 0:23:18.624 A is huge public enemy. So like that's the world 0:23:18.664 --> 0:23:21.344 around me. And I found a lot of it really scary. 0:23:21.984 --> 0:23:24.744 Like I like slick Rick, I like Kwame, you know, 0:23:25.264 --> 0:23:26.104 like that was cute. 0:23:26.184 --> 0:23:28.104 Yeah, Like I liked the little. 0:23:27.864 --> 0:23:30.624 Story raps and all that stuff, but even slick Rick, 0:23:30.704 --> 0:23:35.224 slick Rick used to say some disgusting things grabs with 0:23:35.344 --> 0:23:40.184 spears and Indian drums. What what to put that visual 0:23:40.224 --> 0:23:41.024 in my mind? 0:23:41.504 --> 0:23:43.104 I was not years old. 0:23:43.424 --> 0:23:43.744 God. 0:23:44.584 --> 0:23:46.344 The one thing I know from that story is we 0:23:46.384 --> 0:23:48.304 had different momsh. 0:23:47.704 --> 0:23:50.064 Yeah, I did not have I had a very different 0:23:50.144 --> 0:23:51.584 type of mom than most people. 0:23:51.784 --> 0:23:52.864 Yeah, for sure. 0:23:53.224 --> 0:23:58.824 And when she's playing easy in the car, is she like, oh, 0:23:58.944 --> 0:24:01.303 is there any awareness in her mind? Is like this 0:24:01.424 --> 0:24:03.744 he shouldn't be hearing this and none, just just I 0:24:03.784 --> 0:24:05.184 want to hear this song. I want to hear the 0:24:05.224 --> 0:24:08.904 song in the Nissan. Yeah. And if he needs to 0:24:08.944 --> 0:24:12.224 go to school, so these things will happen simultaneous, yes, 0:24:12.264 --> 0:24:13.704 without Nia's second thought. 0:24:13.784 --> 0:24:15.344 Okay, okay, okay. 0:24:15.904 --> 0:24:19.904 So that's interesting because again, sort of just to talk 0:24:19.944 --> 0:24:25.064 about By the time NWA comes around, I'm very clear 0:24:25.064 --> 0:24:27.584 that like, I like rap music, but it's not speaking 0:24:27.624 --> 0:24:30.224 to me. I'm not I don't have anything against it, 0:24:30.304 --> 0:24:32.504 especially because I feel like, and I would love to 0:24:32.504 --> 0:24:33.904 hear your talk about this because you were still young. 0:24:33.944 --> 0:24:35.304 But I'm sure you've looked back in this time. 0:24:35.664 --> 0:24:39.984 I remember seeing arrested development and concert like I remember 0:24:40.184 --> 0:24:42.984 diggable planets to be like, oh I like this this version, 0:24:43.544 --> 0:24:46.544 and then at some point the Red Company said that's 0:24:46.624 --> 0:24:49.664 enough of that. Well I think about that a lot. 0:24:50.064 --> 0:24:51.984 Like so I felt like there was rap that I 0:24:52.024 --> 0:24:54.344 was responding to, and the and the main streets like 0:24:54.344 --> 0:24:54.904 we don't like the. 0:24:54.864 --> 0:24:56.024 Fact that come out like this wrap. 0:24:56.184 --> 0:24:58.944 No, that's not what happened. It wasn't okay, everything's not 0:24:59.024 --> 0:24:59.384 about you. 0:24:59.664 --> 0:25:00.944 It was a very personal attack. 0:25:02.144 --> 0:25:05.904 But so I had that awakening when I first heard 0:25:06.064 --> 0:25:08.424 you know, Tribe, Yeah, I mean know like Dita Apple 0:25:08.424 --> 0:25:10.984 Bom was big. Seeing a video for Buddy from Day last, 0:25:11.104 --> 0:25:13.744 so that was huge. It's like all of these. 0:25:15.144 --> 0:25:21.263 Afrocentric clothing wearing people. It seemed to be really like 0:25:21.344 --> 0:25:26.744 getting along and having fun and quirky, yeah, like weird, 0:25:26.824 --> 0:25:29.664 and they were putting that forward in a way that 0:25:29.904 --> 0:25:32.504 like when I first heard that music and saw that 0:25:32.824 --> 0:25:35.704 esthetic in that atmosphere, that was the first time I 0:25:35.704 --> 0:25:37.944 felt like I had a seat at the table. So 0:25:38.544 --> 0:25:42.864 by the time I'm getting into rap as a as 0:25:42.864 --> 0:25:45.064 a teenager, I feel like I'm fruit from that tree. 0:25:45.064 --> 0:25:46.544 I'm fruit from the native tongue's tree. 0:25:46.664 --> 0:25:50.944 So tried Daylight. Leaders of the New school like that 0:25:51.024 --> 0:25:55.304 whole energy. And so what ended up happening, though, is 0:25:55.344 --> 0:25:59.584 that those of us who were over there, and especially 0:25:59.624 --> 0:26:04.144 those of us who like me, discovered wrap and breaking 0:26:04.184 --> 0:26:09.464 graffiti DJ, and around the time when we were laid 0:26:09.504 --> 0:26:13.224 into our high school years, a thing called the Internet happened. 0:26:13.744 --> 0:26:14.304 And. 0:26:15.744 --> 0:26:19.504 There became yeah, you got it, it's very important, it's 0:26:19.584 --> 0:26:26.384 very important. There became this this easy way to get music. 0:26:27.144 --> 0:26:29.263 I remember we were crate diggers. We used to go 0:26:29.304 --> 0:26:31.624 to the dusty record shops and try to find the 0:26:31.664 --> 0:26:35.224 second hand But all of a sudden, wait a minute, 0:26:35.904 --> 0:26:39.064 you mean there's this application I can put on And 0:26:39.104 --> 0:26:41.424 I don't have a personal computer, but I know one guy, 0:26:41.664 --> 0:26:45.263 one guy in the dorn does. Under one guy, he 0:26:45.424 --> 0:26:49.024 wasn't afraid to have his hard drive compromise with all 0:26:49.024 --> 0:26:55.783 of this potentially virus filled music. So the reason that 0:26:55.824 --> 0:26:58.824 there used to beat music that we liked was that 0:26:59.024 --> 0:27:03.144 there were enough of us buying that music that the 0:27:03.224 --> 0:27:05.664 major labels were able to put a line in the 0:27:05.704 --> 0:27:11.303 budget to make this alternative bohemian rap music and give 0:27:11.384 --> 0:27:13.344 them big videos and put them in Tower Records next 0:27:13.384 --> 0:27:15.624 to everything else. But we were the first ones to 0:27:15.624 --> 0:27:19.984 stop buying and when we stopped buying it, that whole 0:27:20.064 --> 0:27:23.543 thing collapse and it no longer it was no longer 0:27:24.224 --> 0:27:27.824 a good idea for the record labels to have that 0:27:28.344 --> 0:27:30.184 because we weren't paying for it. 0:27:30.664 --> 0:27:32.864 I mean, I've heard those stories about like about like 0:27:32.904 --> 0:27:36.464 trib Call Quests first album went platinum on the streets 0:27:36.864 --> 0:27:40.744 but not in the record stores, like leg yeah, yeah, 0:27:41.064 --> 0:27:43.864 I guess, yeah, there was a legacy of that anyway. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:27:43.904 --> 0:27:47.184 that there was like everybody had that album, but not 0:27:47.264 --> 0:27:49.464 everybody got it from going to the record store. You 0:27:49.464 --> 0:27:49.664 know what. 0:27:49.704 --> 0:27:51.624 That makes a lot of sense. And again, you know, 0:27:51.664 --> 0:27:55.664 when you're speaking to a particular population that is not 0:27:55.744 --> 0:27:57.824 always the best about following the rules. 0:27:58.664 --> 0:28:01.744 Well also has been like it's like feels like the 0:28:01.784 --> 0:28:04.184 rules aren't for them anyway, you know. 0:28:04.224 --> 0:28:05.904 But that's sort of how we don't understand our own 0:28:05.904 --> 0:28:09.543 place in the economy by following that logic that way. 0:28:09.584 --> 0:28:12.104 And I you know, and I'm it's guilty as anyone else. 0:28:12.344 --> 0:28:15.384 It's just that when I got into the business of it, 0:28:16.144 --> 0:28:19.184 Oh now I can kind of see it, like, oh right, 0:28:19.464 --> 0:28:23.504 like if me and my friends had kept paying for 0:28:23.584 --> 0:28:26.024 those you know, the Daylight sol albums that came out 0:28:26.064 --> 0:28:28.664 after stakes was high, then maybe we're in a different place. 0:28:28.904 --> 0:28:32.504 Yeah, I'm so loath to blame us. 0:28:35.264 --> 0:28:37.904 I just you know, I the way that my mind 0:28:38.184 --> 0:28:42.384 is operating lately is that most of the boogeymen are 0:28:42.504 --> 0:28:45.704 just you know, capitalism and a cheap Scooby Doo villain suit. Yes, 0:28:45.864 --> 0:28:47.984 so so you know, looking at it through that lens, 0:28:47.984 --> 0:28:51.624 it's like, oh, yeah, okay, our money comes out, we 0:28:51.744 --> 0:28:52.664 stop having the thing. 0:28:52.864 --> 0:28:55.304 Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, no, it is. I agree, 0:28:55.344 --> 0:28:58.384 that's how the ultimate villain. I used that with United Shades, like, 0:28:58.384 --> 0:29:01.584 no matter what issue we were covering, racism, it just 0:29:01.584 --> 0:29:05.064 just rights, immigration, rights at the border. The ultimate villain 0:29:05.064 --> 0:29:05.584 was capitalist. 0:29:05.664 --> 0:29:07.184 Yeah, it was American capitalist usually. 0:29:07.424 --> 0:29:10.424 Yeah. Yeah. So you said, like you said, you didn't 0:29:10.424 --> 0:29:11.984 grow up on Sally want to be a rapper. But 0:29:12.024 --> 0:29:13.664 then you're like hanging out in the scene and be like, 0:29:13.704 --> 0:29:15.424 oh I think I could actually be a do something 0:29:15.464 --> 0:29:18.784 in the scene and creating the scene. Are you always 0:29:18.824 --> 0:29:19.424 headed down? 0:29:20.504 --> 0:29:22.304 You know? And I please, I want to know what 0:29:22.384 --> 0:29:23.664 you call what you do? 0:29:24.304 --> 0:29:26.824 You know, I called it art wrap in twenty ten 0:29:27.024 --> 0:29:29.344 and I still get asked about that all the time. 0:29:29.424 --> 0:29:32.224 It was in the it's in the it's in the 0:29:32.264 --> 0:29:34.864 DOSSI And I was like, is that really? I mean, 0:29:35.584 --> 0:29:37.584 I don't know, sure, baby, but I know I didn't 0:29:37.584 --> 0:29:38.784 say it for it. I would ask you. 0:29:38.824 --> 0:29:42.824 I know, my first album it's called Unapologetic art Rap. 0:29:43.224 --> 0:29:44.224 So you did to yourself? 0:29:44.264 --> 0:29:46.904 I did? I did you put it in the system? 0:29:46.984 --> 0:29:47.384 I did? 0:29:47.584 --> 0:29:50.064 But you know that was a different time. It felt 0:29:50.144 --> 0:29:52.344 necessary to say something like that at that time. 0:29:52.424 --> 0:29:54.944 Well sure, it's like it's yeah, it's like the idea 0:29:54.944 --> 0:29:56.784 of like there's a time where I was calling myself 0:29:56.824 --> 0:30:00.784 a blurred every ten minutes. You actually around time totally bias. 0:30:00.824 --> 0:30:02.264 When somebody called me a blurred, I was like, oh, 0:30:02.304 --> 0:30:04.664 is that what I am? Right, I'm glad there's a 0:30:04.784 --> 0:30:05.144 name for it. 0:30:05.344 --> 0:30:10.024 Right before, there are important. I feel like they're important 0:30:10.064 --> 0:30:13.464 for the marketplace, important to have distinctions. So you know, 0:30:13.704 --> 0:30:18.504 I went with that because I feel like, you know. 0:30:18.744 --> 0:30:22.264 Rockets to have all these different sub genres. I really 0:30:22.464 --> 0:30:26.504 agree with what you're saying, Like, yeah, like that it 0:30:26.544 --> 0:30:29.384 is helpful to the marketplace, and it's helpful to the consumer. 0:30:29.424 --> 0:30:30.304 You know, what am I going to? 0:30:30.584 --> 0:30:32.704 What am I? Where do I look for it? Where's 0:30:32.744 --> 0:30:33.264 my section? 0:30:33.464 --> 0:30:35.384 Right? Like the people like me and you who would 0:30:35.384 --> 0:30:37.744 have been looking for the Diggaboo Planets record, Like it 0:30:37.744 --> 0:30:42.984 would be nice if there was a separate Bend Nerds. 0:30:46.824 --> 0:30:51.144 Now, I feel like the distinction, like Indy seems cool 0:30:51.784 --> 0:30:56.744 because Indye speaks to both the economics of it and my. 0:30:58.824 --> 0:31:01.544 The fact I don't have to answer to anybody really creatively. 0:31:01.584 --> 0:31:03.824 I feel like, so Indy feels good. 0:31:03.864 --> 0:31:07.064 It doesn't feel quite specific enough, yeah, but it feels 0:31:07.064 --> 0:31:07.824 like it's on the way. 0:31:08.064 --> 0:31:09.824 Yeah, It's like I mean, it's sort of in that 0:31:09.904 --> 0:31:13.144 sense like punk rock covers a lot of different sort 0:31:13.144 --> 0:31:16.824 of like sounds in that genre of music that you 0:31:16.824 --> 0:31:18.984 can get the clash which has some very like pop 0:31:19.104 --> 0:31:22.344 forward music, but the ethos is punk. 0:31:22.784 --> 0:31:22.984 Yeah. 0:31:23.104 --> 0:31:25.824 Yeah, so I get that indie rap. So were you 0:31:25.864 --> 0:31:29.104 always on an indie rap path or was there are 0:31:29.104 --> 0:31:32.144 there polaroids of you, like you know. 0:31:33.784 --> 0:31:34.384 Where you were? 0:31:34.424 --> 0:31:39.224 Like, No, I never had a doukie rope like where 0:31:39.264 --> 0:31:43.064 you're like, this is what we do? You know? No, man, 0:31:43.744 --> 0:31:45.184 you were always in the indie rap path. I mean 0:31:45.224 --> 0:31:49.464 when when we say you know about you or about me, 0:31:49.544 --> 0:31:51.984 that I always knew I was over there, Like that's 0:31:52.064 --> 0:31:54.744 really what I mean, Like there was never a thought 0:31:54.744 --> 0:31:58.904 in my mind of doing anything even close to mainstream. 0:31:59.384 --> 0:32:05.944 It just has never been interesting to me, and I 0:32:05.984 --> 0:32:08.584 don't I don't think I'm wired in a way where 0:32:08.664 --> 0:32:09.264 i'd be. 0:32:09.224 --> 0:32:12.344 Even if I really tried really hard, I think it 0:32:12.744 --> 0:32:16.344 would be difficult for me to make a mass market product. 0:32:16.744 --> 0:32:21.784 That's that's that's that's hard. It's like, you could give 0:32:21.824 --> 0:32:23.944 me the pieces to make a mask mark you get 0:32:24.064 --> 0:32:26.144 like it's like legos. You could give me the pieces, 0:32:26.344 --> 0:32:28.784 you give me instructions. It's not gonna look like gonna 0:32:28.784 --> 0:32:29.264 look like that. 0:32:29.384 --> 0:32:31.544 I'm gonna look the gonna be on the bottom, you 0:32:31.584 --> 0:32:33.344 know what I'm saying, It's gonna have some jelly smeared 0:32:33.344 --> 0:32:33.864 on it or something. 0:32:34.104 --> 0:32:34.704 It's not. 0:32:34.904 --> 0:32:38.184 It's just not gonna and and accepting that, I think, 0:32:38.304 --> 0:32:41.384 especially when you're there's something scared about, especially a black person, 0:32:41.424 --> 0:32:43.384 when you accept that, cause it's like you're just getting in, 0:32:43.384 --> 0:32:46.104 You're putting yourself in a smaller and smaller corner that 0:32:46.784 --> 0:32:50.304 you know as a white person. Oh you're the quirky 0:32:50.344 --> 0:32:51.864 white you know what I mean. There's just like, oh, 0:32:51.904 --> 0:32:53.824 that's a whole we can market to that, you know 0:32:53.824 --> 0:32:55.704 what I mean? Like like there's a whole there's a 0:32:55.704 --> 0:32:59.144 whole genre like what you're Wes Anderson, right, oh. 0:32:59.384 --> 0:33:02.344 Okay, okay, well we just got out here, you know, 0:33:02.424 --> 0:33:04.744 over here with that. But it was a black person. 0:33:05.024 --> 0:33:06.024 Especially when I was coming up. 0:33:06.024 --> 0:33:08.464 I always say that the thing that you had, which 0:33:08.464 --> 0:33:11.864 I'm gonna look into the internet, I was very aware that, like, 0:33:11.984 --> 0:33:14.744 if I had only had the Internet, I thought I 0:33:14.784 --> 0:33:16.104 was the only one on the planet. 0:33:16.864 --> 0:33:19.104 I thought I was the like I would go to 0:33:19.184 --> 0:33:19.824 And we've talked. 0:33:19.624 --> 0:33:22.064 About this, because you came to the Fishbone show that 0:33:22.144 --> 0:33:25.264 I got to moderate the thing, and I would know 0:33:25.304 --> 0:33:28.064 the Fishbone concert there'd be more black people on stage 0:33:28.744 --> 0:33:30.824 than in the in the in the play, in the theater, 0:33:31.224 --> 0:33:33.224 and you'd see another black guy cross the room and 0:33:33.264 --> 0:33:34.744 there'd be that moment and I wonder if you've had 0:33:34.744 --> 0:33:36.864 this where you're like, is he my best friend? Or 0:33:36.904 --> 0:33:40.904 do I have to fight it? You know what's funny. 0:33:41.184 --> 0:33:43.344 You know my favorite band is they might be giants? 0:33:43.664 --> 0:33:45.904 Yes, you made that clear at the show, the Clippic Show. 0:33:45.984 --> 0:33:49.744 Yeah, oh god, I did. I thought that was great. 0:33:49.864 --> 0:33:52.104 Oh man, it was for for the people who are 0:33:52.104 --> 0:33:54.464 watching this every you said for somehow you had that 0:33:54.504 --> 0:33:57.024 they might be giants stuck in your head somehow, I 0:33:57.024 --> 0:34:00.744 can't remember how we got to this moment, came out 0:34:00.744 --> 0:34:03.424 and said, well, this is this is what happened because 0:34:03.904 --> 0:34:07.784 every show on that tour, and this was legitimate. I 0:34:07.824 --> 0:34:10.504 had created a set, but I could not decide on 0:34:10.544 --> 0:34:13.344 the first song. So I was letting the crowd in 0:34:13.424 --> 0:34:15.743 each show just like, you know, yell something you like 0:34:15.784 --> 0:34:17.663 that I do, and I might do that as my 0:34:17.704 --> 0:34:20.743 first song. And that night it. 0:34:20.703 --> 0:34:23.064 Went on a little too long with people sort of 0:34:23.064 --> 0:34:24.743 shouting out things that I couldn't quite hear. 0:34:24.824 --> 0:34:27.504 Yeah, and then somebody said saying they might be giants, 0:34:27.743 --> 0:34:29.584 and I was like, wait a minute, I can do that. 0:34:32.384 --> 0:34:34.743 I mean, it was I sort of knew that it 0:34:34.783 --> 0:34:37.064 wasn't a bit, but I felt like he should really 0:34:37.143 --> 0:34:39.263 do that. He should really like, yeah, there's a day 0:34:39.344 --> 0:34:41.903 might be giants cover album in you? Oh God? Yes, 0:34:42.183 --> 0:34:44.143 that like that? To me, it was like and it 0:34:44.223 --> 0:34:46.423 was so satisfying to me because they might look they 0:34:46.504 --> 0:34:48.623 might be giants, great, but I feel like it's like 0:34:49.783 --> 0:34:52.024 my like, there's things like that that are that it's 0:34:52.064 --> 0:34:55.024 ostensibly to some people are super white, but I'm like, no, 0:34:55.183 --> 0:34:58.223 I'm that's mine too. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, Yeah. 0:34:58.223 --> 0:35:00.504 But I've had that experience at they might be giant 0:35:00.544 --> 0:35:02.343 shows where I see another black person. I feel like 0:35:02.344 --> 0:35:06.384 I've had both sides of that spectrum, both like, Hey, 0:35:06.663 --> 0:35:11.303 that's dope and the others like if. 0:35:11.223 --> 0:35:13.623 We're allowed to be close to each other, does the 0:35:13.703 --> 0:35:17.024 venue explode? So the two indie black guys get too 0:35:17.024 --> 0:35:19.143 close to each other. I mean there's literally a black guy. 0:35:19.424 --> 0:35:23.504 There's Billy Tuggle, who I've never had a conversation with 0:35:23.623 --> 0:35:26.263 longer than like ten minutes, and he's just a black guy. 0:35:26.344 --> 0:35:28.104 Used to see it all the Fishbonel Living Color shows 0:35:28.104 --> 0:35:30.743 in Chicago, and we're like he just commented on an 0:35:30.743 --> 0:35:33.944 Instagram post I had recently. I was like, ah, like 0:35:34.223 --> 0:35:36.183 I've never had a long conversation with the guy because 0:35:36.223 --> 0:35:38.543 at the time when I would see him, I would be. 0:35:38.464 --> 0:35:40.064 Like, that guy's here again. 0:35:40.223 --> 0:35:42.584 Yeah, I hope he's okay. Hope he's okay that I'm 0:35:42.663 --> 0:35:45.504 you know what I mean, instead of like if the 0:35:45.504 --> 0:35:49.544 internet existed, we would have found each other on the internet. Hey, 0:35:49.584 --> 0:35:52.344 who here in Chicago's going to see Living Color tonight 0:35:52.584 --> 0:35:54.984 and I am, and we would have gone together and 0:35:54.984 --> 0:35:57.143 we would have hung out together. It's so cute. I know, 0:35:57.223 --> 0:36:02.183 it's just so I do envy you Internet negroes, you 0:36:02.303 --> 0:36:08.064 Internet al negroes. I really my altness was grounded in like, 0:36:08.504 --> 0:36:14.424 you know, giant hip hop crew meetings in Chicago, and 0:36:14.504 --> 0:36:17.343 I mean big ones, like hundreds of people, hundreds of 0:36:17.663 --> 0:36:19.303 hundreds for a meeting about hip hop. 0:36:19.504 --> 0:36:21.783 Well, okay, because we had cruise that you know, they 0:36:21.824 --> 0:36:25.183 were basically like legal gangs, like like the Graffiti Cruise 0:36:25.223 --> 0:36:28.263 in Chicago, the hip hop Cruise, and sometimes they group. 0:36:28.344 --> 0:36:30.464 There would be all city hip hop meetings and we 0:36:30.504 --> 0:36:33.263 would descend on the hair Washington Library, of course, and 0:36:33.303 --> 0:36:34.544 there would be hundreds of us. 0:36:34.663 --> 0:36:36.623 Wow. 0:36:53.504 --> 0:36:55.903 So I guess my question is where did if your 0:36:55.944 --> 0:37:01.104 mom is playing uh easy E in the car, like, 0:37:01.143 --> 0:37:04.464 I feel like I can trace my alternative blackness to 0:37:04.544 --> 0:37:09.104 where it started from. I'm then only child, My mommus 0:37:09.143 --> 0:37:11.544 take me around, didn't spend didn't always want babysitter. So 0:37:11.544 --> 0:37:13.904 I was running adults a lot, and I got to 0:37:13.904 --> 0:37:15.343 because when we talk, I spent a lot of time 0:37:15.344 --> 0:37:17.423 by myself sort of creating my own version of what 0:37:17.584 --> 0:37:20.383 culture was same here in my room, and then I'd 0:37:20.384 --> 0:37:22.944 go outside and be like that we're not that's not 0:37:23.024 --> 0:37:24.783 we're not all doing Oh okay, I'll go I'll just 0:37:24.864 --> 0:37:27.663 go back in my room. Where does your so, Yeah, 0:37:27.703 --> 0:37:29.663 give me your the blueprint of how you got to 0:37:29.703 --> 0:37:33.104 be so South Side of Chicago late eighties, early nineties. 0:37:33.743 --> 0:37:37.143 It is not nice outside. It is not nice outside. 0:37:37.183 --> 0:37:40.464 And because my mom was living in life, she was 0:37:40.504 --> 0:37:44.464 living my grandparents raised me and my sister. 0:37:44.663 --> 0:37:46.503 Oh that will make you all if you're being raised 0:37:46.504 --> 0:37:48.424 by people who are a lot of your grandparents. 0:37:48.504 --> 0:37:53.783 And and a lot of that time was spent in 0:37:53.824 --> 0:37:57.544 front of the television. Yeah, so latch key kid in 0:37:57.544 --> 0:38:00.263 front of the TV. I wasn't allowed to go outside 0:38:00.263 --> 0:38:02.784 a lot, like literally because it was shooting outside. 0:38:03.024 --> 0:38:05.423 It's not like they're not mad, They're like, oh good, 0:38:05.424 --> 0:38:06.463 he's watching TV all day. 0:38:06.623 --> 0:38:11.664 Yeah, we know it has something to do exactly. And 0:38:11.824 --> 0:38:16.104 we had cable, which was a rare ny We had cable, 0:38:16.263 --> 0:38:20.024 so so a lot a lot of my alt identity, 0:38:20.263 --> 0:38:23.183 a lot of a lot of the original information that 0:38:23.384 --> 0:38:32.384 isolated me socially was watching like hours and hours of MTV. Gosh, 0:38:32.424 --> 0:38:34.544 hours and hours of like the Comedy Channel. 0:38:34.703 --> 0:38:37.464 Oh yeah before Comedy Central, Comedy Central. 0:38:38.504 --> 0:38:40.783 Like I was just sort of kid that you know, 0:38:40.864 --> 0:38:45.663 once cartoons were because cartoons were such a uh some 0:38:45.944 --> 0:38:47.223 small segment of programming. 0:38:47.263 --> 0:38:49.183 And back then it was like they start at this 0:38:49.263 --> 0:38:50.303 time and they end at this time. 0:38:50.344 --> 0:38:53.504 And I was I had asthma real bad too. We 0:38:53.584 --> 0:38:56.504 both had. Okay, it's maybe asthma's the secret. Maybe asthma. 0:38:56.824 --> 0:38:58.463 So you're not you're not at the you're not at 0:38:58.464 --> 0:39:02.783 the at the court learning how to dunk. You're the 0:39:02.824 --> 0:39:04.383 kid who And back then, if you put out an 0:39:04.384 --> 0:39:07.663 asthma hailer, everybody would just like nobody knew what they were. 0:39:07.864 --> 0:39:10.024 I mean, so many kids I was around had asthma. 0:39:10.143 --> 0:39:12.703 Well black kids, yeah, exactly. It's one of our hidden 0:39:12.783 --> 0:39:14.703 talents as black people is being born in areas that 0:39:14.743 --> 0:39:15.264 give you asthma. 0:39:15.384 --> 0:39:19.664 It's terrible, but I you know, I had been hospitalized 0:39:19.703 --> 0:39:23.263 for asthma a few times as a kid. So I 0:39:23.303 --> 0:39:27.143 spent like a lot of time at home, you know, 0:39:27.384 --> 0:39:32.024 on school days, watching TV. And so that's when you 0:39:32.064 --> 0:39:35.944 would see the cartoons end at like nine am, and 0:39:35.984 --> 0:39:39.623 then from like nine am to three something when cartoons 0:39:39.623 --> 0:39:43.183 come back on, I'm looking for anything funny on television. 0:39:43.464 --> 0:39:46.743 So I'm like learning about the world through reruns of 0:39:46.783 --> 0:39:49.663 shows that happened in the seventies earlier in the eighties, 0:39:50.024 --> 0:39:52.623 and like all that stuff is like informing my worldview, 0:39:53.143 --> 0:39:55.863 you know. And I watched a lot of like I 0:39:55.904 --> 0:40:00.024 watched a lot of late eighties and early nineties stand 0:40:00.104 --> 0:40:02.903 up comedy because that was all over cable and you'd 0:40:02.904 --> 0:40:06.104 have like Evening at the Empire and a half hour 0:40:06.223 --> 0:40:10.984 Comedy Our all of that stuff. And so I'm learning 0:40:11.584 --> 0:40:17.864 how the world works through people telling jokes. The comedy 0:40:17.904 --> 0:40:20.743 specials used to come on like HBO and Showtime, like 0:40:20.944 --> 0:40:23.743 all of that stuff. Like you know what, I used 0:40:23.743 --> 0:40:30.104 to love watching Gallagher specials. I mean he loved watching 0:40:30.504 --> 0:40:31.784 a Gallagher special. 0:40:32.783 --> 0:40:34.183 People like this is definitely you have to be a 0:40:34.223 --> 0:40:36.064 certain as there was a time when v H one 0:40:36.143 --> 0:40:40.104 probably showed more Gallagher comedy than they showed music. And 0:40:40.104 --> 0:40:43.544 Gallagher had like I don't know, legitimately, like ten specials, 0:40:43.544 --> 0:40:45.703 a lot of specials. He had a lot of specials. 0:40:45.904 --> 0:40:48.784 And while we know them for ending with the Sledge 0:40:48.783 --> 0:40:52.064 of Maatic, he also was like sort of like a 0:40:52.183 --> 0:40:55.504 bargain basement George Carlin. He was like a word nerd. Yeah, 0:40:55.544 --> 0:40:57.464 he was like this sort of like wordplay and like 0:40:57.824 --> 0:41:00.623 had some sort of like these idiots in Congress had 0:41:00.623 --> 0:41:02.064 a little bit of that. 0:41:02.703 --> 0:41:06.024 I always thought it was fascinating. It was just a 0:41:06.104 --> 0:41:11.024 person giving me this weird old perspective on life and language, 0:41:11.303 --> 0:41:12.344 and yeah. 0:41:12.143 --> 0:41:14.783 I ate all this stuff up. Yeah, okay, gallaghers, I 0:41:14.783 --> 0:41:20.544 think asthma, Asthma and Gallagher. I'll do it to you together, 0:41:20.904 --> 0:41:24.584 old old old people raising older people, raising you asthma 0:41:24.584 --> 0:41:28.064 and Gallagher that I need to we've we've diagnosed the patient. 0:41:28.104 --> 0:41:30.704 That's a special is a special gumbo. Because I definitely 0:41:30.743 --> 0:41:34.543 was like like I like, I very proudly say people 0:41:34.544 --> 0:41:36.704 told me I watched too much TV, but I actually 0:41:36.743 --> 0:41:38.863 turned it into a career, so I knew what I 0:41:38.904 --> 0:41:41.464 was doing. But yes, so that you're taking it all 0:41:41.464 --> 0:41:45.183 that stuff. So so I remember as a young black 0:41:45.223 --> 0:41:48.024 person being shunned by other black people because there's all 0:41:48.064 --> 0:41:50.064 another reason why you're some of us are over there 0:41:50.183 --> 0:41:52.024 is because you try to walk to eereverybody they know 0:41:52.104 --> 0:41:54.024 you're over there, you know what I mean. And I 0:41:54.024 --> 0:41:56.104 remember being sure just because people could black folks in 0:41:56.183 --> 0:41:58.024 Chicago I was in Chicago to at the same time 0:41:58.464 --> 0:42:03.863 could smell that like he's not It was I got 0:42:03.864 --> 0:42:07.623 the they out like us earlier, not for the same reason, 0:42:08.344 --> 0:42:10.543 for the same reasons, but just because it's like you're 0:42:10.544 --> 0:42:13.064 not just I can just smell it on you. You 0:42:13.064 --> 0:42:15.464 weren't like going to Atlanta and stealing people's rap styles. 0:42:15.703 --> 0:42:18.864 No that I'm not. I've never been called a colonizer. 0:42:19.143 --> 0:42:23.503 Good but uh and also all the other things. There's 0:42:23.504 --> 0:42:28.863 no pens over my house but uh so, but I 0:42:28.904 --> 0:42:31.343 know that, like I just knew that, like those there's 0:42:31.344 --> 0:42:33.064 a second there's a segment of black people who don't 0:42:33.064 --> 0:42:35.263 think I belong with them. They can smell it on me. 0:42:35.303 --> 0:42:35.863 Did you have that? 0:42:37.104 --> 0:42:39.383 I mean, you're also in the hip hop crew of hundreds. 0:42:39.944 --> 0:42:43.863 Okay, but we would be talking about my life before then, okay, right, 0:42:43.904 --> 0:42:48.904 because I discovered that community when I was like sixteen, okay, okay, 0:42:48.984 --> 0:42:51.823 and you know before that, I can say I felt 0:42:51.864 --> 0:42:54.263 like I didn't have much of a social identity at all. 0:42:55.544 --> 0:42:59.464 So I always felt like I was learning how to 0:42:59.584 --> 0:43:02.183 wear a socializing costume. That's why I say I could 0:43:02.183 --> 0:43:03.423 speak people, because. 0:43:03.544 --> 0:43:04.263 You know I could. 0:43:04.303 --> 0:43:06.743 I think I could appear to be comfortable like I 0:43:06.783 --> 0:43:09.064 could I could go to my cousin's house and lived 0:43:09.064 --> 0:43:10.264 in the projects and be chilling. 0:43:10.464 --> 0:43:11.544 Yeah you know. 0:43:11.783 --> 0:43:15.864 Now I used to get roasted because I was legitimately 0:43:15.984 --> 0:43:20.104 and visually a nerd, like it was undeniable, Like my 0:43:20.183 --> 0:43:25.303 grandmother worked at kmart, okay, and so my clothes were 0:43:25.384 --> 0:43:26.823 just whatever they were selling. 0:43:26.623 --> 0:43:30.544 Yeah discount. Yeah. So I was just in nice sweaters 0:43:30.544 --> 0:43:36.824 and corduroils all the time, all the business casual at eleven, 0:43:37.424 --> 0:43:39.984 with a little glasses and a little shag. I was 0:43:40.024 --> 0:43:45.143 not beating no nerd allegation. So I didn't. It wasn't 0:43:45.424 --> 0:43:50.104 so much you're not black, but it was certainly you're 0:43:50.183 --> 0:43:54.384 not cool, which that which also there's different ways to 0:43:54.464 --> 0:43:56.863 roast where you're kicking somebody out, but you're also seeing 0:43:56.864 --> 0:43:58.263 if you can roast them, see if they can take it. 0:43:58.263 --> 0:43:59.143 Then they're letting them in. 0:43:59.223 --> 0:44:03.463 Yeah, so I just saw you're so when does at 0:44:03.464 --> 0:44:06.544 what point is is hip hop becoming a career? 0:44:07.824 --> 0:44:11.544 So okay, I get in and I start freestyling. And 0:44:11.944 --> 0:44:15.104 I would say I didn't record a verse until I 0:44:15.183 --> 0:44:18.623 was eighteen for a song, and then I didn't write 0:44:18.663 --> 0:44:20.944 a song until I was in college. I had to 0:44:20.944 --> 0:44:25.863 be like twenty or twenty one, and but that entire 0:44:25.944 --> 0:44:29.784 time freestyle and battling, like street corner rapping, like really 0:44:30.183 --> 0:44:33.144 for real, for real, like battling, battling, battling. 0:44:32.864 --> 0:44:35.263 Like you're not the guy who's like all in his bedroom. 0:44:35.743 --> 0:44:40.623 No, I was there because there there wasn't a bedroom 0:44:40.743 --> 0:44:43.464 thing at that time, because nobody had recording equipment. So 0:44:43.504 --> 0:44:47.784 we didn't even none of us even thought of ever 0:44:47.984 --> 0:44:51.464 like trying to make it. You know, we were just 0:44:51.663 --> 0:44:53.623 doing the arts because that's what we were supposed to do. 0:44:53.703 --> 0:44:55.783 We were supposed to get out there and do the graffiti. 0:44:55.864 --> 0:44:58.423 We're supposed to learn to break dance, were supposed to rap, 0:44:58.424 --> 0:45:01.383 We're supposed to battle. So that's what we were doing, 0:45:01.384 --> 0:45:03.384 and we were getting sharp and getting good and whatever. 0:45:03.504 --> 0:45:04.504 You know, I was. I was. 0:45:05.623 --> 0:45:08.303 I achieved a lot of success in rap, like it 0:45:08.384 --> 0:45:11.584 was something that people could see I was good, and 0:45:11.663 --> 0:45:14.383 so I just did that, just freestyle for years and. 0:45:14.424 --> 0:45:15.703 Years and years and years. 0:45:15.743 --> 0:45:19.504 This band that I used to freestyle with in undergrad 0:45:20.663 --> 0:45:23.984 booked a show at the local spot where people performed, 0:45:23.984 --> 0:45:25.223 and they were like, we want to put you on 0:45:25.263 --> 0:45:27.823 a bill. I'm like cool, and they were like you 0:45:27.864 --> 0:45:28.623 need some songs. 0:45:31.024 --> 0:45:33.823 They're like, oh yeah, you're oh cool. No no, no, 0:45:36.024 --> 0:45:36.783 so I had to. 0:45:36.824 --> 0:45:41.384 I went home and I wrote and memorized five songs 0:45:41.544 --> 0:45:45.904 Jesus and that was my set, and I performed and 0:45:45.944 --> 0:45:47.984 it felt so cool. And then at the end of 0:45:48.024 --> 0:45:53.064 that show, they put two hundred dollars in my hand. 0:45:53.183 --> 0:45:58.064 And when I tell you, I've never had a better 0:45:58.183 --> 0:46:03.344 feeling in my whole life. And that was the beginning. 0:46:03.544 --> 0:46:07.743 It was, oh, like the thing I like to do, 0:46:07.944 --> 0:46:08.984 but for money. 0:46:09.223 --> 0:46:12.463 And also I just wrote these like, yeah, these songs 0:46:12.464 --> 0:46:16.143 didn't exist a we could go and now exactly exactly. 0:46:16.223 --> 0:46:16.743 So it was. 0:46:16.783 --> 0:46:23.104 It was all very encouraging toward Huh, maybe I could 0:46:23.143 --> 0:46:25.223 try this one day. So when I moved. I ended 0:46:25.263 --> 0:46:28.944 up moving to LA in two thousand and four, just 0:46:28.944 --> 0:46:32.143 a couple of years after I finished undergrad, and I 0:46:32.183 --> 0:46:34.104 was only supposed to be here a year because I 0:46:34.143 --> 0:46:36.343 was supposed to go to grad school, but I didn't 0:46:36.424 --> 0:46:38.263 end up doing that. But in the back of my 0:46:38.303 --> 0:46:41.743 head when I moved out here was the thought of 0:46:43.384 --> 0:46:45.984 maybe I could, Maybe I could try it, because I 0:46:46.064 --> 0:46:50.343 knew I knew the project Blowed guys. Now, I had 0:46:50.504 --> 0:46:53.424 visited a couple of times out here in LA visiting 0:46:53.464 --> 0:46:54.904 my dad, and I had gone to the Blow and 0:46:54.944 --> 0:46:56.783 I was a freestyle, so they took me. Actually, the 0:46:56.783 --> 0:46:58.784 first time I wrapped at the Blow, I got booed 0:46:58.783 --> 0:46:59.304 off stage. 0:47:01.384 --> 0:47:05.504 The first time that boot off stage. And when you 0:47:05.504 --> 0:47:07.623 look back on getting boot off stage, there's times you 0:47:07.663 --> 0:47:09.463 get boot off when it's your fault, in times where 0:47:09.464 --> 0:47:11.104 you go they sucked, which. 0:47:10.904 --> 0:47:14.183 Was I don't I think it's always your fault if 0:47:14.223 --> 0:47:18.504 you get booed off stage personally, Okay, okay, So I 0:47:18.504 --> 0:47:22.383 mean I certainly was not. When I first got on 0:47:22.424 --> 0:47:27.143 that stage. I had never rapped to a room full 0:47:27.143 --> 0:47:31.664 of rappers really, not like that, Like I had wrapped 0:47:31.703 --> 0:47:35.544 around rappers in like cipher settings. I had wrapped on stage, 0:47:35.703 --> 0:47:36.344 not like. 0:47:36.143 --> 0:47:39.823 We don't know me. I'm stepping on stage. I'm going 0:47:39.824 --> 0:47:42.464 to impress you with my with my lyrical ability, and 0:47:42.584 --> 0:47:46.864 everyone there just wants their time to be on stage. 0:47:47.064 --> 0:47:49.663 So if you're not being amazing, not using the topic, 0:47:49.824 --> 0:47:51.743 well yeah, they're getting you about it. 0:47:53.424 --> 0:47:53.783 So it was. 0:47:53.824 --> 0:47:56.263 It was a hard lesson, but you know, I came back. 0:47:56.344 --> 0:47:59.344 I had to sort of acclimate to what they were doing. 0:47:59.663 --> 0:48:02.544 It was a different approach, but I learned that approach too. 0:48:02.584 --> 0:48:04.143 It's funny that the same with comedy like if you 0:48:04.223 --> 0:48:06.024 do comedy in Chicago when you come to LA and 0:48:06.064 --> 0:48:07.944 it's like, oh, this is a different vibe. 0:48:08.104 --> 0:48:11.423 Yeah, in Chicago and LA specifically, when it came rap, 0:48:11.544 --> 0:48:15.703 it was two distinct different styles and I had to Yeah, 0:48:15.703 --> 0:48:17.303 I had to learn how to you know, I had 0:48:17.303 --> 0:48:19.823 to learn how to rap out here and put that 0:48:19.864 --> 0:48:20.544 into my tool bell. 0:48:20.584 --> 0:48:23.143 But at that point, how would you to layman like 0:48:23.223 --> 0:48:25.544 myself say, this is the difference in the styles. 0:48:26.584 --> 0:48:30.903 At the time, the Chicago was split into south Side 0:48:30.904 --> 0:48:31.503 and west Side. 0:48:31.783 --> 0:48:33.263 The south Side style was very it. 0:48:33.223 --> 0:48:36.183 Was very much a punchline style. It was like a 0:48:36.223 --> 0:48:39.223 lot of bars. I mean a lot of verses were constructed, 0:48:39.824 --> 0:48:42.424 set up punchline, set up punchline, a lot of big 0:48:42.623 --> 0:48:46.223 metaphors that that people would try to impress people with. 0:48:47.904 --> 0:48:53.183 In LA, it was about different cadences. 0:48:54.183 --> 0:48:59.344 It was about the percussive sound, being able to freestyle 0:48:59.464 --> 0:49:03.104 like that. And so when I came on that stage 0:49:04.584 --> 0:49:09.623 doing my setup punchline, it was like, get out, we 0:49:09.703 --> 0:49:15.064 do it up there. That is what it sounded like 0:49:15.104 --> 0:49:17.104 to them. That's what it sounded like to them. They 0:49:17.143 --> 0:49:19.383 weren't they weren't interested in watching me. 0:49:19.424 --> 0:49:26.584 Think, But because I knew some of those people, and 0:49:26.663 --> 0:49:31.223 some of those people had careers such that when I 0:49:31.344 --> 0:49:34.464 was in Chicago, I would hear some of their records. 0:49:34.944 --> 0:49:38.504 So ac alone Abstract ruled Micah nine a freestyle fellowship. 0:49:38.504 --> 0:49:41.343 These are guys who would be at Project Blow but 0:49:41.504 --> 0:49:44.743 have music that was going around the nation. So when 0:49:44.783 --> 0:49:48.944 I came out here, I was like, I'm gonna go 0:49:48.984 --> 0:49:52.544 over there and not leave, and I learned how to 0:49:52.544 --> 0:49:53.504 have a career over there. 0:49:55.104 --> 0:49:58.064 So you know, you're surrounded by rappers. Everybody's in it 0:49:58.104 --> 0:50:00.263 for different reasons, had different ideas what their career is 0:50:00.303 --> 0:50:04.143 going to be. You're and there's also been moments when 0:50:04.183 --> 0:50:09.383 it's like so called all black rappers have been sort 0:50:09.384 --> 0:50:12.424 of like have sort of entered the mainstream. Are you 0:50:12.544 --> 0:50:18.104 ever sort of like I say, this is a comedian. 0:50:18.424 --> 0:50:20.183 There were times in my career I thought I can 0:50:20.223 --> 0:50:22.503 be Eddie Murphy and there's then I realized I can't 0:50:22.504 --> 0:50:24.823 be it, you know what I mean, like like and 0:50:24.864 --> 0:50:26.664 looking back, I don't know what I was thinking about, 0:50:26.783 --> 0:50:28.663 but like and then so but I think, but then 0:50:28.703 --> 0:50:31.064 there's like I can see a path forward that's not that, 0:50:31.223 --> 0:50:32.863 but it is going to put me in a place 0:50:32.864 --> 0:50:34.663 where I can provide for my family and do what 0:50:34.703 --> 0:50:36.944 I want to do totally. Are you ever being like 0:50:36.984 --> 0:50:41.223 looking at a little Wayne and going like I'm next? No? Absolutely, 0:50:41.303 --> 0:50:43.383 See that's the thing because every rap most rappers would 0:50:43.384 --> 0:50:45.783 tell you if I don't think I'm you know, well 0:50:45.824 --> 0:50:48.823 that's the thing. I think great, But I think that 0:50:48.904 --> 0:50:53.024 what it's again, I think that what people at the 0:50:53.143 --> 0:50:56.224 very very top of the genre are doing are making 0:50:56.263 --> 0:50:59.663 something that's easily mass market digestible. And I'm not the 0:50:59.703 --> 0:51:02.263 best at that. In fact, I'll be terrible at that, 0:51:03.104 --> 0:51:04.663 you know what I'm saying, But like. 0:51:04.783 --> 0:51:07.663 There's nobody better than me doing what I do, and 0:51:07.703 --> 0:51:08.944 that's what I always stand on. 0:51:09.584 --> 0:51:14.143 So the highest heights I had, you know, I had 0:51:14.183 --> 0:51:19.623 reached was having a television show, right and and you know, 0:51:19.743 --> 0:51:21.983 being able to do my thing next to method Man, 0:51:22.143 --> 0:51:23.464 next to lizz O, next. 0:51:23.263 --> 0:51:23.703 To M F. 0:51:23.783 --> 0:51:30.183 Doom like this. That that was like my dreams realized. 0:51:30.263 --> 0:51:32.263 That was the New Negroes. Negroes. 0:51:32.384 --> 0:51:33.863 Yeah, yeah, so. 0:51:33.824 --> 0:51:37.464 That was you know, as far as the level of 0:51:37.464 --> 0:51:39.984 cultural penetration that I was ever hoping for. 0:51:40.064 --> 0:51:42.383 That was it. So we talked about that, you had 0:51:42.424 --> 0:51:45.344 the show of the New Negroes, which I remember Baron 0:51:45.384 --> 0:51:47.423 Vaughn's a part of that. And there was just this 0:51:47.504 --> 0:51:48.823 I remember hearing about it for a long time, like 0:51:48.864 --> 0:51:51.623 it just seemed like it was like the Comedy Central 0:51:51.663 --> 0:51:53.703 was trying to figure like had it and didn't been 0:51:53.743 --> 0:51:55.743 put it out for a while, and yeah, it was. 0:51:55.783 --> 0:51:57.264 It was a weird situ It was easy. 0:51:57.303 --> 0:51:58.904 Here's the thing I knew of somebody from the outside. 0:51:58.904 --> 0:52:02.263 Also Kevin's my friend that like, oh, that's to know 0:52:02.303 --> 0:52:05.143 that you have a show and to know that it's 0:52:05.183 --> 0:52:07.064 not like it's not doing the thing you thought I 0:52:07.183 --> 0:52:09.143 was gonna do, or to know that it's taken a 0:52:09.183 --> 0:52:12.383 while and to know that, like and then to know 0:52:12.424 --> 0:52:14.183 that it's out and you go, I thought the dream 0:52:14.263 --> 0:52:16.584 was having a show, and now I have a show, 0:52:16.623 --> 0:52:19.663 and I sort of maybe I know. I'll speak for myself, 0:52:19.703 --> 0:52:21.263 I kind of can't wait for this to be over. 0:52:22.504 --> 0:52:26.303 I can't say that I was of the mind that 0:52:26.344 --> 0:52:28.544 I couldn't wait for it to be over. But after 0:52:28.584 --> 0:52:30.863 the first season ended, and you know, when we were 0:52:30.864 --> 0:52:34.464 having conversations about potentially doing a second, my thought was, 0:52:34.504 --> 0:52:38.303 I do want it to happen, but I have to 0:52:38.384 --> 0:52:42.064 find a way to do it where this network is 0:52:42.104 --> 0:52:45.663 not shitting in my heart. I have to find a 0:52:45.703 --> 0:52:48.383 way to do it where they are not chewing on 0:52:48.544 --> 0:52:52.304 my soul for this because what I can tell after 0:52:52.344 --> 0:52:56.183 having this one season's worth of experience is that these 0:52:56.263 --> 0:53:01.024 people don't much care what happens to my mind, and 0:53:01.064 --> 0:53:03.464 so I can't keep feeding them the best part of me. 0:53:03.743 --> 0:53:06.703 That's yeah, So that that was my thought, Like I 0:53:06.743 --> 0:53:09.463 definitely wanted to do it again. Yeah, but I had 0:53:09.464 --> 0:53:10.703 to find a different way to do it. 0:53:11.584 --> 0:53:14.863 And season two didn't happen. Season two didn't happen, you know, 0:53:14.944 --> 0:53:17.864 and even that was it. It was like we really 0:53:17.944 --> 0:53:20.104 like sing in your Heart, Yeah, but that was the 0:53:20.183 --> 0:53:23.863 final turn. That's not you really need to do that part. 0:53:25.183 --> 0:53:26.584 We'd love to do a season two, but we got 0:53:26.623 --> 0:53:28.944 to ship in your Heart. No, man, I interest you 0:53:29.024 --> 0:53:30.024 in shitting in your heart? 0:53:30.743 --> 0:53:33.464 No, So where does that take you after that? Is that? 0:53:33.504 --> 0:53:35.504 Like, Well, I'm just going my own way. 0:53:35.904 --> 0:53:37.984 I mean I have I've had a I've had a 0:53:38.024 --> 0:53:41.223 few TV projects in the works, I had things in development, 0:53:41.223 --> 0:53:43.904 I had things get shelved, i have shows I've written for. 0:53:45.183 --> 0:53:48.263 I haven't had another look like that. But it's like 0:53:49.143 --> 0:53:53.024 I feel like where we are now. That was a 0:53:53.143 --> 0:53:56.984 stand up comedy, hip hop variety show, which on paper 0:53:58.743 --> 0:54:00.024 miraculous that it ever. 0:53:59.864 --> 0:54:02.824 Existed, to the air miraculous. 0:54:03.424 --> 0:54:04.983 So I mean, it's not the sort of thing where 0:54:04.984 --> 0:54:07.223 I behold in my breath looking to do that, that 0:54:07.623 --> 0:54:11.024 type of thing again, trying to reboot it, right, I think, 0:54:11.263 --> 0:54:14.223 I mean, we did try to, but we gave up 0:54:14.223 --> 0:54:16.743 on that dream. But the things that I try to 0:54:16.783 --> 0:54:19.623 do in TV now more just like scripted, like more 0:54:19.703 --> 0:54:24.463 trying to translate my ideas into, you know, what what 0:54:24.504 --> 0:54:27.984 the market is looking for, rather than trying to shoehorn 0:54:28.064 --> 0:54:31.703 what I do into platforms that are that maybe it's 0:54:31.743 --> 0:54:33.143 not studied for well. 0:54:32.984 --> 0:54:35.064 And that and and that brings me to how I 0:54:35.223 --> 0:54:37.183 discovered you in the last I don't know how long 0:54:37.183 --> 0:54:38.424 you've been doing it, but when I discovered you in 0:54:38.464 --> 0:54:42.504 the last several months of you now on YouTube just 0:54:42.544 --> 0:54:45.784 sort of like speaking to the culture directly and putting 0:54:45.783 --> 0:54:51.223 you're putting your opinions out there and sort of you know, 0:54:51.223 --> 0:54:53.104 certainly you've always been the first with opinions, and you've 0:54:53.104 --> 0:54:55.423 always you're on Twitter, you've certainly weren't shy about sharing 0:54:55.424 --> 0:54:58.024 your opinions. But what makes you decide to go and 0:54:58.024 --> 0:54:59.584 I don't know if I've caught up late, Like I 0:54:59.584 --> 0:55:00.903 don't know how long it has been going on, but 0:55:00.984 --> 0:55:03.183 like it talks about what this project is. 0:55:03.183 --> 0:55:06.183 It hasn't been that long. So I started streaming on 0:55:06.263 --> 0:55:09.584 twitch I think like three years ago. Okay, uh, And 0:55:10.223 --> 0:55:13.944 that's a that's a fun thing that can pay a 0:55:13.984 --> 0:55:17.823 decent amount of money if you got the right level 0:55:17.824 --> 0:55:21.104 of engagement. And you know, my show on there has 0:55:21.263 --> 0:55:24.383 gotten to a decent place. But it occurred to me 0:55:24.504 --> 0:55:27.623 that the state of YouTube was such that I was 0:55:27.663 --> 0:55:32.263 seeing a lot of people who were repurposing clips from 0:55:32.303 --> 0:55:39.703 their live streams into YouTube content, and I dabbled in that. 0:55:40.064 --> 0:55:44.904 Especially around the time of the Kendrick and Drake battle. 0:55:44.984 --> 0:55:49.623 Was this huge sort of open door where everybody had 0:55:49.623 --> 0:55:54.824 a voracious appetite for discourse around that beef and them songs. 0:55:54.944 --> 0:55:57.584 That was me, I was everybody. Yeah, I wanted to 0:55:57.584 --> 0:55:59.984 hear everybody's opinion on it. I wanted to know everybody 0:56:00.424 --> 0:56:00.823 that was me. 0:56:01.064 --> 0:56:04.823 And that's sort of how I got into it, right. 0:56:05.464 --> 0:56:06.823 I had made a couple of clips and put a 0:56:06.864 --> 0:56:08.263 couple of things up and was short of trying to 0:56:08.263 --> 0:56:09.863 figure out my way through it. But I saw in 0:56:09.904 --> 0:56:13.384 that that it was exactly that attitude that everybody wanted 0:56:13.384 --> 0:56:14.943 to hear what everybody had to say. 0:56:15.024 --> 0:56:16.383 I don't care if I grew, I don't care if 0:56:16.384 --> 0:56:19.943 I like what you voted for. I don't care if 0:56:19.944 --> 0:56:22.263 you were by bullying high school. If you have an 0:56:22.263 --> 0:56:24.623 opinion on Drake versus Kendrick, I would I would like 0:56:24.663 --> 0:56:27.864 to hear it. So between that and Diddy getting arrested, 0:56:28.504 --> 0:56:32.863 and because my biggest clip was me or one of 0:56:32.864 --> 0:56:35.904 my biggest early clips was speaking to that because I 0:56:35.984 --> 0:56:44.104 remember being especially sort of upset about the Diddy revelations 0:56:44.223 --> 0:56:47.584 because that hip hop community that I'm telling you I've 0:56:47.623 --> 0:56:50.183 been a part of thirty years, I feel like we 0:56:50.263 --> 0:56:53.223 have been trying to warn people about Diddy for the 0:56:53.384 --> 0:56:56.143 entire time. Oh you know, like I feel like you 0:56:56.183 --> 0:56:58.904 have about your specific hip hop community, like the greater 0:56:58.984 --> 0:57:00.663 hip hop well, I mean, I mean the greater hip 0:57:00.703 --> 0:57:03.783 hop community in terms of the bee boy side of it, 0:57:04.024 --> 0:57:06.143 you know, the underground hip hop side of it. Like 0:57:06.504 --> 0:57:10.983 so where sometimes our messaging comes across as mainstream bad, 0:57:11.143 --> 0:57:14.503 underground good, I think that there's an underlying thing where 0:57:14.504 --> 0:57:19.383 we're like, hey, that guy, and where he's trying to 0:57:19.424 --> 0:57:23.144 take things. It's got this weird thing too, Like it's 0:57:23.224 --> 0:57:25.744 it seems sort of antithetical to this thing that we're 0:57:25.744 --> 0:57:29.184 trying to preserve. And if you follow his career, like 0:57:29.224 --> 0:57:32.023 it opened the door to all of this weirdness, right, 0:57:33.824 --> 0:57:35.584 And I feel like that's something that we were ahead on. 0:57:35.784 --> 0:57:39.184 And and and I had a lot to say about 0:57:39.264 --> 0:57:41.944 trying to understand why it is that people don't listen 0:57:42.424 --> 0:57:45.744 to that sort of warning. And that was that was 0:57:45.784 --> 0:57:48.424 an early successful clip. And that was one of the 0:57:48.424 --> 0:57:51.823 ones I was just like, I was just talking. I 0:57:51.864 --> 0:57:52.383 didn't edit. 0:57:53.784 --> 0:57:57.424 I talked for like half an hour, and people liked it. 0:57:57.464 --> 0:58:00.624 And I was like, oh, okay, so this is and. 0:58:00.544 --> 0:58:02.824 It's like it's like when you did the five songs 0:58:02.824 --> 0:58:04.903 at the club and you got two hundred dollars, You're like, oh, 0:58:04.984 --> 0:58:07.423 is that I just talked for half hour? 0:58:07.464 --> 0:58:08.624 By the thing I care a lot about? 0:58:08.824 --> 0:58:13.464 Yeah, And and and that's the that's the balancing acto. 0:58:13.544 --> 0:58:17.224 Was that last part you said, because and this is 0:58:17.224 --> 0:58:20.144 what I ran into early on, was that, Oh, the 0:58:20.184 --> 0:58:22.744 way that this works as a thing to make money 0:58:22.744 --> 0:58:25.184 on is that you have to talk about the things 0:58:25.224 --> 0:58:26.024 people care about. 0:58:27.104 --> 0:58:27.823 But do. 0:58:28.064 --> 0:58:31.584 I always care about what people care about. That's That's 0:58:31.664 --> 0:58:34.184 the thing I see happen to people that I follow 0:58:34.264 --> 0:58:36.984 on YouTube is you can tell when they're like paying 0:58:37.024 --> 0:58:40.064 more too much attention to the algorithm, and I'm like, 0:58:40.144 --> 0:58:43.943 do you really want to talk about or actually, maybe 0:58:43.984 --> 0:58:45.184 you'd like talking about it, but I don't think you 0:58:45.264 --> 0:58:49.264 having like a real Yeah, I think you need to 0:58:49.304 --> 0:58:51.983 say about it. You're talking about it. But I think 0:58:52.024 --> 0:58:54.304 there's that's the thing. I think there's an invitation just 0:58:54.304 --> 0:58:56.064 sort of like, oh, this is trending in the news. 0:58:56.624 --> 0:58:58.704 I should probably got I got a way in. And 0:58:58.744 --> 0:59:00.863 I see people sometimes like y'all have been begging me 0:59:00.944 --> 0:59:04.264 to make a video, Like recently everybody who I follow 0:59:04.304 --> 0:59:05.983 is like, I know, y'all want me to talk about 0:59:06.064 --> 0:59:09.944 Jack Harlow, Jack Hart, Yes, And it just feels like 0:59:10.344 --> 0:59:13.184 that becomes like and believe me, when did Jack Harlow 0:59:13.224 --> 0:59:15.184 think broke? And as we take this, it's not that 0:59:15.264 --> 0:59:17.744 long ago. I was like, let me go to what 0:59:17.784 --> 0:59:20.024 Mike's talking about. Like I definitely was like, I want 0:59:20.024 --> 0:59:21.664 to see he's got something to say. Oh good, he does, 0:59:21.944 --> 0:59:22.824 and it's a long video. 0:59:24.104 --> 0:59:29.184 Oh yeah, that was like Christmas. I mean but but 0:59:29.264 --> 0:59:31.863 that is, you know, that is the difference, right, Like 0:59:32.264 --> 0:59:35.744 that is something that I genuinely had thoughts about, right 0:59:37.464 --> 0:59:40.744 where there was other stuff I found myself talking about 0:59:41.064 --> 0:59:43.704 when this journey first started, where I was like, eh, 0:59:43.824 --> 0:59:45.744 I'd kind of rather I didn't make a video on 0:59:45.784 --> 0:59:48.863 that because I I don't actually care about it, you know, 0:59:50.024 --> 0:59:52.624 but it's it's it's just it's it's that just learning 0:59:52.664 --> 0:59:55.984 to you kind of listen to myself and and know 0:59:56.104 --> 0:59:59.184 this some some discussions I'll I'd rather stay out. 0:59:59.064 --> 1:00:01.224 Of, which is which is I have that same thing. 1:00:01.264 --> 1:00:03.144 It's like I don't actually need to weigh in on this. 1:00:03.224 --> 1:00:23.224 I can share somebody else's opinion, right. But so there's 1:00:23.264 --> 1:00:24.784 two things I want to talk about. One is just 1:00:24.864 --> 1:00:27.343 the how you came to be this sort of like 1:00:27.464 --> 1:00:29.744 version of yourself that you are and exists inside the 1:00:29.784 --> 1:00:33.903 greater Black umbrella that we that we live under, and 1:00:34.104 --> 1:00:38.744 you know, indie indie rap, indie black, you know over there, 1:00:39.064 --> 1:00:42.864 all the different ways to do over there over there. 1:00:43.904 --> 1:00:46.024 The other thing I'm talking about is, and this is 1:00:46.024 --> 1:00:50.544 something I deal with, is like how to maintain the 1:00:50.624 --> 1:00:55.383 independence without one sort of going like maybe you know 1:00:55.384 --> 1:00:57.624 there's ways you go maybe I will lean into the mainstream. 1:00:58.024 --> 1:00:59.584 Or there's sometimes it's like maybe I'll go get a 1:00:59.664 --> 1:01:03.264 job at the post office to quote Hollywood shuffle, like 1:01:03.304 --> 1:01:05.224 maybe I'll go, maybe I'll do some things I didn't 1:01:05.264 --> 1:01:06.944 think I was gonna do. Like with me, it's like 1:01:06.984 --> 1:01:09.463 I go three kids, nine jobs. I have to sort 1:01:09.464 --> 1:01:11.064 of like have a lot of things up in the air. 1:01:11.184 --> 1:01:13.744 Same because I still got to feed these people. Yep, 1:01:14.024 --> 1:01:17.624 and I mean literally these people. Yeah, not like feed 1:01:17.664 --> 1:01:20.464 the people my truth bombs. I mean, so how do 1:01:20.544 --> 1:01:22.664 you and I even the way? You and I don't 1:01:22.704 --> 1:01:25.423 need any money, God's gonna clear. But like I hear 1:01:25.464 --> 1:01:29.664 you like, oh this twitch thing okay, yeah, YouTube you're monetizing. 1:01:29.704 --> 1:01:32.264 Oh the video does well. And then also I'm going 1:01:32.304 --> 1:01:32.744 on tour. 1:01:32.864 --> 1:01:34.704 Yeah. Also I'm trying to do writing projects. 1:01:34.784 --> 1:01:35.104 How do you? 1:01:35.144 --> 1:01:37.304 How do you do all that? I mean, it's it 1:01:37.384 --> 1:01:39.144 is exactly what you said. I do it all because 1:01:39.144 --> 1:01:39.544 I have to. 1:01:40.704 --> 1:01:43.944 I got into a space at the end of twenty 1:01:43.984 --> 1:01:45.584 twenty four where. 1:01:45.384 --> 1:01:46.424 The outlook was bad. 1:01:46.504 --> 1:01:51.464 I had a I had a show that got bought 1:01:51.824 --> 1:01:54.584 and developed by Peacock. 1:01:54.944 --> 1:01:57.664 Okay, and you know. 1:01:57.664 --> 1:02:02.184 They sort of they sort of let us around by 1:02:02.224 --> 1:02:07.384 the nose for six seven months and then ultimately shelved 1:02:07.384 --> 1:02:14.664 the project. And that was that was like my last 1:02:15.024 --> 1:02:17.784 the last thing that my chips were on. Yeah, you know, 1:02:18.024 --> 1:02:21.184 the last big project that my chips were on. And 1:02:21.544 --> 1:02:24.464 I sort of looked around and was like, oh, yeah, 1:02:24.504 --> 1:02:26.744 this is this is not this doesn't look good. 1:02:27.184 --> 1:02:29.584 It looks bad when that when that's when the when 1:02:29.624 --> 1:02:32.863 those chips go off the table, like wait a minute, Mike, 1:02:32.904 --> 1:02:37.383 I'm missing some chip. Yeah, and your family looking over like, man, 1:02:37.384 --> 1:02:38.624 we're hungry. Yeah. 1:02:38.824 --> 1:02:41.664 I got to have a big son, he's very big. 1:02:43.344 --> 1:02:47.024 And I looked around and I was. 1:02:46.984 --> 1:02:50.304 Like, I need to get a job. Probably I need 1:02:50.304 --> 1:02:54.984 to probably not be waiting for some email. It's going 1:02:55.064 --> 1:02:57.624 to change my life at this point. Oh man, this 1:02:57.784 --> 1:03:03.903 is so like exactly. Yeah. So I spent I would say, 1:03:03.904 --> 1:03:07.504 like the last quarter of twenty twenty four applying the 1:03:07.624 --> 1:03:12.744 jobs in the music industry and you know, and production 1:03:12.904 --> 1:03:17.984 houses in nonprofits because a lot of my work before 1:03:18.304 --> 1:03:22.464 being in entertainment was working in nonprofits. And when I 1:03:22.504 --> 1:03:26.064 tell you, I didn't even get an email back. I 1:03:26.064 --> 1:03:31.784 didn't even get any e mail back. I was like, oh, 1:03:31.984 --> 1:03:33.904 not even like oh, it'd be fun to we're not 1:03:33.904 --> 1:03:35.064 gonna hire him, let's meet him. 1:03:37.664 --> 1:03:37.823 Yeah. 1:03:38.224 --> 1:03:46.544 So, like I came away from that time having learned, oh, 1:03:46.584 --> 1:03:50.704 I'm unhirable, Like I can't really get a job because 1:03:51.224 --> 1:03:55.863 like there's no way to organize my resume that makes 1:03:55.864 --> 1:03:58.584 it look like I sincerely want to work at a place. 1:03:58.704 --> 1:04:02.784 That I'm This resume doesn't say nine to five minute breaks. 1:04:03.064 --> 1:04:06.024 It says it is much right. Yeah, it says it 1:04:06.104 --> 1:04:09.544 says needs a paycheck, and we'll leave here as soon 1:04:09.624 --> 1:04:15.423 as soon anything slightly better comes along with even a 1:04:15.464 --> 1:04:17.943 promise of something slightly better, I'm not showing up. 1:04:18.224 --> 1:04:23.823 So uh, with that knowledge, I sort of looked around 1:04:23.824 --> 1:04:25.823 at the landscape and I said, Okay, the only way 1:04:25.944 --> 1:04:32.504 through this is to work harder. You know, that was 1:04:32.544 --> 1:04:35.904 the only way through. So, you know, if it's streaming, 1:04:36.104 --> 1:04:39.863 if it's youtubing, uh, if it's TV writing, if it's 1:04:39.904 --> 1:04:42.904 doing shows, if it's putting you know, putting out albums. 1:04:42.864 --> 1:04:48.184 Merg sales, which I helped you with exactly exactly. Yeah, Uh, 1:04:48.624 --> 1:04:49.144 y'all don't know. 1:04:49.344 --> 1:04:53.944 Now, he's a he's a great, excellent uh merch second 1:04:53.984 --> 1:04:54.544 in command. 1:04:54.624 --> 1:04:56.823 There's proof. There's a picture of me holding up a 1:04:56.864 --> 1:04:59.464 T shirt like this that's proves no, we're yeah. I 1:04:59.504 --> 1:05:02.064 was happy to help. It was great. No, No, So 1:05:02.704 --> 1:05:04.984 I mean I I resonate so much with this because 1:05:05.664 --> 1:05:09.064 he sort of like and you know you sort of 1:05:09.104 --> 1:05:11.383 like every now and again, I get paralyzed sometime just 1:05:11.424 --> 1:05:13.664 like by like if I don't if it doesn't come 1:05:13.704 --> 1:05:18.584 out of my head and generate income, then the whole 1:05:18.624 --> 1:05:21.264 thing falls apart, like it's the whole house of cards. 1:05:21.344 --> 1:05:23.264 It is a lot of pressure, and I think what 1:05:23.344 --> 1:05:30.824 a lot of people underestimate is like how much time 1:05:30.944 --> 1:05:33.823 that takes, not even doing other things, but thinking of 1:05:33.864 --> 1:05:34.584 the things that the. 1:05:34.744 --> 1:05:37.704 Yeah, that's sort of like the gurgling of the thing 1:05:37.744 --> 1:05:39.904 to get it out of your mouth or your fingers. 1:05:39.904 --> 1:05:43.544 So you gotta you gotta imagine it, you gotta you know, 1:05:43.984 --> 1:05:46.024 try to get it in a place to be produced, 1:05:46.184 --> 1:05:48.383 and you gotta do these things like it's it's it 1:05:48.464 --> 1:05:50.224 is a lot, and I think I think a lot 1:05:50.264 --> 1:05:53.704 of times people underestimate how much free time that leaves 1:05:53.704 --> 1:05:55.224 a person with because it's not much. 1:05:56.984 --> 1:05:58.704 Yeah, And I was just how hard it is on 1:05:58.744 --> 1:06:02.224 your family right when it's like sometimes I know I'll 1:06:02.224 --> 1:06:04.544 speak for myself, I'm just like almost like like this 1:06:04.664 --> 1:06:05.504 in a corner. 1:06:07.424 --> 1:06:13.104 Gotta you wanna Yeah, you know what I mean? Huh? 1:06:13.664 --> 1:06:15.584 Or you know when my kids say, put your phone down, data, 1:06:15.624 --> 1:06:18.464 I need to get this on Instagram. Yeah. Yeah, they 1:06:18.464 --> 1:06:20.664 don't understand. It's not you know, it's not it's not 1:06:20.744 --> 1:06:23.784 happy fun time all I've Actually my kids are now 1:06:23.824 --> 1:06:26.264 like fourteen, Like my oldest one. I talked to her 1:06:26.264 --> 1:06:30.144 recently and we had she great, kid, doesn't hate me. 1:06:30.344 --> 1:06:32.903 Really hated the trope of teenagers hating their parents. So 1:06:32.944 --> 1:06:34.344 she's rebelling against that. 1:06:34.344 --> 1:06:34.823 That's nice. 1:06:34.904 --> 1:06:37.863 Yeah, No, she's rebelling against because everything you watch as 1:06:37.864 --> 1:06:39.944 a kid is about teenagers hating their parents. And she 1:06:40.064 --> 1:06:42.024 was like resolved at like ten, I'm not going to 1:06:42.104 --> 1:06:46.064 do that. Love, that's fantastic. We've had we've definitely, She's 1:06:46.104 --> 1:06:49.304 like we've had like beefs and screens, but none about 1:06:49.344 --> 1:06:50.943 like I just hate you over all. And the one 1:06:50.944 --> 1:06:52.504 time I was like, look she was she was upsetting 1:06:52.504 --> 1:06:53.584 me with something. I was like, you're on a hundred 1:06:53.584 --> 1:06:56.264 percent right, dah. Also, I think you're old enough to 1:06:56.264 --> 1:06:59.064 know it takes work to keep this afloat. That's ru 1:07:00.264 --> 1:07:02.744 It's not like you're old enough to know. I'm not 1:07:02.784 --> 1:07:05.664 asking you to participate, I'm not asking you to stress 1:07:05.664 --> 1:07:08.704 about it, but just understand that, like you are old 1:07:08.784 --> 1:07:10.584 enough to know that this is a lot of work, 1:07:11.184 --> 1:07:13.984 know and and I am happy to do it for you, 1:07:14.024 --> 1:07:16.504 and I'm gonna and sometimes that means I'm not going 1:07:16.584 --> 1:07:20.744 to be my best self. It does call something like 1:07:20.824 --> 1:07:23.224 and I don't it doesn't justify it, right, but just 1:07:23.304 --> 1:07:25.984 you're old enough to know that, Like you know, this 1:07:26.064 --> 1:07:27.383 is a lot and it's draining, and. 1:07:28.184 --> 1:07:31.744 It's just I think it just comes down to maths, 1:07:31.784 --> 1:07:34.304 Like it's just like the time and the energy that 1:07:34.384 --> 1:07:37.864 it takes. It's like, yeah, you're not always going to 1:07:37.944 --> 1:07:40.184 have your best I think that's that's a real fair 1:07:40.224 --> 1:07:44.464 way to do it. My son's seventeen, so you know, 1:07:44.984 --> 1:07:48.744 his his desire to connect. It's very regimented, you know 1:07:48.784 --> 1:07:51.983 what I'm saying. So I can manage my resources enough 1:07:52.024 --> 1:07:54.144 to kind of Yeah, he's not, Yeah, he's you know, 1:07:54.184 --> 1:07:56.224 he's not a little kid that needs a lot. 1:07:56.344 --> 1:07:59.144 Come and climb climb into your lab at the end 1:07:59.184 --> 1:08:01.664 of every day. Yeah he's not. I don't think. 1:08:02.264 --> 1:08:04.543 Well, he doesn't ask me to put my phone down, 1:08:04.584 --> 1:08:07.744 but sometimes I can tell that he wants me to 1:08:07.784 --> 1:08:09.423 be watching what he's watching on TV. 1:08:09.744 --> 1:08:11.343 And I'm like, you know what, you're right, you're a 1:08:11.504 --> 1:08:14.264 era you're at. So I guess my last guys, we 1:08:14.344 --> 1:08:16.624 bring this into the clothes. A couple of the questions one, 1:08:17.344 --> 1:08:21.664 what is your what? How is your son's uh, how's 1:08:21.664 --> 1:08:26.023 your son's blackness? Like, how's your son's It seems very 1:08:26.744 --> 1:08:31.224 uh stable, he he it's a different era now, it 1:08:31.304 --> 1:08:33.984 is a different era. Yeah, black people allowed to have 1:08:34.024 --> 1:08:37.744 like tattoos, and I mean black men. You know, the 1:08:38.184 --> 1:08:42.824 expression uh, you know, the expression spectrum is all over 1:08:42.864 --> 1:08:48.824 the place. He goes to a mostly white school, though, 1:08:48.864 --> 1:08:51.744 like there are you know, it's it's a it's a 1:08:51.824 --> 1:08:55.904 it's a neighborhood school, so there's a good amount of 1:08:55.944 --> 1:09:01.184 black kids, but they are the minority. So I don't 1:09:01.224 --> 1:09:06.664 think there's anyone around there challenging his blackness, but it 1:09:06.744 --> 1:09:12.144 is his identity seems very very grounded, very grounded. 1:09:13.664 --> 1:09:15.024 Good job, good job parents. 1:09:15.144 --> 1:09:17.424 Well you know it's it's I feel like I just 1:09:17.504 --> 1:09:21.304 have to uh uh fight the manisphere off of them 1:09:21.304 --> 1:09:23.424 all the time. I just gotta constantly, I gotta throw 1:09:23.504 --> 1:09:26.424 hands with the manispheres. It's just all the time, just 1:09:26.544 --> 1:09:27.544 all the time fighting. 1:09:27.704 --> 1:09:30.504 Yeah. No, I said this last night, like I feel 1:09:30.504 --> 1:09:32.304 really lucky that I had three daughters because I can 1:09:32.344 --> 1:09:34.823 just sort of like give away all the men's state secrets. 1:09:34.824 --> 1:09:36.744 I can just be like I'm a double agent, like 1:09:37.024 --> 1:09:37.784 here's what men do. 1:09:38.504 --> 1:09:40.744 Yeah, Whereas you have to be like, as I said 1:09:40.744 --> 1:09:42.944 in my daughter one point, the problem with being a 1:09:42.984 --> 1:09:45.384 boy is that you can be a really good person, 1:09:46.064 --> 1:09:47.544 but at some point you're gonna be in a room 1:09:47.544 --> 1:09:51.943 with a bunch of bad boys and you're gonna feel pressure. 1:09:52.584 --> 1:09:55.584 Even if you're totally like sweetheart teddy Bear, you're gonna 1:09:55.584 --> 1:09:58.704 feel pressure to sort of like be one of them, 1:09:59.184 --> 1:10:00.704 or you're gonna go to them for counsel and they're 1:10:00.704 --> 1:10:01.824 gonna tell you the wrong thing. 1:10:01.984 --> 1:10:06.224 Yeah, and and and with the way social media is, 1:10:06.264 --> 1:10:07.264 of course, yeah. 1:10:07.344 --> 1:10:09.504 They don't. They don't have to be asking, they're just 1:10:09.664 --> 1:10:12.904 not Andrew Hates just showing up all the time, Yeah, 1:10:13.024 --> 1:10:15.224 just with some with some unsolicited Like my son. 1:10:15.064 --> 1:10:18.504 Has been exposed to Andrew Tate for like seven years, 1:10:19.504 --> 1:10:22.664 you know, like and and I'm like, he's not even 1:10:22.704 --> 1:10:25.064 the one I'm really worried about, Like I'm I'm more 1:10:25.104 --> 1:10:27.464 worried about the ones where it's like I can tell 1:10:28.064 --> 1:10:30.823 that it's like that, but it's not as immediately as parent. 1:10:30.944 --> 1:10:34.544 Yes, it's not as obvious, you know that like that. 1:10:34.304 --> 1:10:38.184 That those are the the values informing the takes. And 1:10:38.184 --> 1:10:41.384 I got to be like, hey, hey, but yeah, that 1:10:41.504 --> 1:10:43.264 guy he hates women. 1:10:44.704 --> 1:10:47.264 I have to say that a lot. Yeah, he's on 1:10:47.304 --> 1:10:49.144 the internet. Yeah, good for you for saying that. 1:10:49.184 --> 1:10:52.824 You gotta say it. He hates women, hate swimming, hate women. Yeah, 1:10:53.104 --> 1:10:56.304 like everything that he just said he translated, Yeah, I 1:10:56.424 --> 1:10:58.304 don't like women. And then and then there's this weird 1:10:58.344 --> 1:11:00.584 thing about like I understand, I mean I feel like this, 1:11:00.824 --> 1:11:04.784 like I understand that you're watching it for this, like 1:11:05.144 --> 1:11:08.504 maybe he's talking about hip hop, but also he hates swimming. Right, 1:11:08.744 --> 1:11:10.984 so just if you need to separate out the hip 1:11:11.784 --> 1:11:15.024 or the football top or the NBA talk, but understanding, 1:11:15.264 --> 1:11:16.304 leave the hate, don't take. 1:11:16.224 --> 1:11:16.544 All of it. 1:11:16.864 --> 1:11:19.504 Yeah, and you know, he plays me a lot of 1:11:19.824 --> 1:11:21.944 artists that he likes, because you know, the hip hop 1:11:22.024 --> 1:11:23.904 he's into its very hit different than the hip hop. 1:11:23.984 --> 1:11:25.224 That's wonder I'm into. 1:11:26.424 --> 1:11:27.624 And he liked the hip hop he's into. 1:11:27.744 --> 1:11:29.864 I like some of it, and I can appreciate a 1:11:29.904 --> 1:11:31.464 lot of it even if I don't like it. What 1:11:31.584 --> 1:11:32.544 kind of hip hop does he like? 1:11:32.664 --> 1:11:36.584 I mean, it's it's funny because it is called underground 1:11:36.664 --> 1:11:38.984 hip hop, but it's got nothing to do. It's not 1:11:39.064 --> 1:11:39.704 your underground. 1:11:39.744 --> 1:11:42.224 It's not nothing. It's not underground. As a kid, it's 1:11:42.264 --> 1:11:43.064 not my underground. 1:11:43.144 --> 1:11:47.384 Now, son, I'm in the underground. I would know if it's. 1:11:47.904 --> 1:11:47.944 No. 1:11:48.104 --> 1:11:49.904 I don't see that guy any of the underground hip 1:11:49.904 --> 1:11:50.424 hop meetings. 1:11:50.784 --> 1:11:53.424 No, this is a whole new crop that does a 1:11:53.544 --> 1:11:56.464 whole different sound. It is way it's kind of way out, 1:11:56.464 --> 1:11:57.984 but that's what I appreciate about it is that it's 1:11:58.024 --> 1:12:01.104 way out, but it's like way out through a hood lens. 1:12:01.304 --> 1:12:04.104 It's it's really different kind of stuff. But you know, 1:12:04.344 --> 1:12:06.944 he asked me my opinion of these artists a lot, 1:12:06.984 --> 1:12:09.704 and I always have to tell him, Like this guy, right, 1:12:10.064 --> 1:12:12.264 I like, I like what he does. I think his 1:12:12.384 --> 1:12:14.504 flow is interesting. I think his approach is cool. I 1:12:14.504 --> 1:12:17.823 think he's a good songwriter. Yeah, but he hates women. 1:12:18.184 --> 1:12:20.824 But he hates women like I don't know if you 1:12:20.864 --> 1:12:23.864 can hear this, he actually hates with me, you know, 1:12:24.064 --> 1:12:24.664 And and so. 1:12:26.544 --> 1:12:28.664 You know, we we We have tough conversations like that 1:12:28.784 --> 1:12:31.544 a lot. But yeah, I gotta you know, I gotta, 1:12:31.624 --> 1:12:32.823 I gotta fight the manisphere. 1:12:32.864 --> 1:12:34.184 That's the only way I can do it. My other 1:12:34.344 --> 1:12:36.624 liberated to the manisphere because I've been affected, my cris 1:12:36.624 --> 1:12:37.264 been affected by this. 1:12:37.304 --> 1:12:37.664 Definitely. 1:12:37.864 --> 1:12:40.424 Have you been affected by the trumpification of the like 1:12:40.664 --> 1:12:43.104 just the industry and the trumplification of like And I 1:12:43.144 --> 1:12:46.304 don't mean as a human like the DEI like, you 1:12:46.344 --> 1:12:48.024 know what I mean, sort of like the sort of 1:12:48.104 --> 1:12:50.424 the like we're not interested in blackness in the way 1:12:50.464 --> 1:12:53.024 that we used to pretend to be. And so there's 1:12:53.064 --> 1:12:55.544 a time when New Negroes is being green white. New 1:12:55.624 --> 1:12:58.104 Negroes is not getting greenlit now. But you know, so 1:12:58.304 --> 1:13:00.384 like are you have you been does that affect you 1:13:00.464 --> 1:13:04.784 in the music industry? And not really Okay, there's you. 1:13:04.824 --> 1:13:10.184 Know, anybody who's talking about buying me as a performer, 1:13:10.464 --> 1:13:13.983 as a you know, as a as a musician anything 1:13:14.144 --> 1:13:19.784 like they know what I bring and it's it's it 1:13:19.864 --> 1:13:21.784 would be very different if I was trying to sell 1:13:21.824 --> 1:13:24.264 a TV show now, it would be very different. But 1:13:24.424 --> 1:13:26.344 that's a that's a corporate buyer, and I don't usually 1:13:26.384 --> 1:13:28.744 deal with I don't have to deal with you actively. 1:13:28.504 --> 1:13:29.824 Are not dealing with the corporate buyers. 1:13:29.824 --> 1:13:31.424 See, I still am like every now and again, like 1:13:31.784 --> 1:13:34.584 because I also because I direct documentaries, I get I 1:13:34.624 --> 1:13:36.864 get sort of put before the corporate buyers and in 1:13:36.944 --> 1:13:40.384 those ways have to be like, hey, which I you know, 1:13:40.664 --> 1:13:43.184 to me, that's like almost the equivalent of getting a 1:13:43.264 --> 1:13:45.624 day job, like of like I will direct this thing 1:13:46.504 --> 1:13:48.064 and I'll put my I'll try to put my spin 1:13:48.144 --> 1:13:50.144 on it, but this but it's you know, and I'll 1:13:50.384 --> 1:13:51.704 try to enjoy the work, but it's. 1:13:51.544 --> 1:13:56.184 Not necessarily your top ten most interested in personally topics. 1:13:55.984 --> 1:13:57.944 Not things that I would do left to my own device. 1:13:58.264 --> 1:14:00.544 Like this podcast is me being like I want something 1:14:00.584 --> 1:14:03.024 that's for me. I want something that's like I couldn't 1:14:03.704 --> 1:14:05.184 I could probably call you and be like, let's talk 1:14:05.224 --> 1:14:07.104 for an hour, but that'd be weird, you know, I 1:14:07.104 --> 1:14:10.064 wouldn't hate it. Yeah no, yeah, but I mean maybe 1:14:10.104 --> 1:14:12.184 we can do it now. But I really this podcast 1:14:12.304 --> 1:14:14.704 is about me saying like I want to have conversations people. 1:14:14.704 --> 1:14:16.024 I want to talk about it and talk to people 1:14:16.024 --> 1:14:18.664 about things I wanted to talk to them about in 1:14:18.744 --> 1:14:20.064 a way that is like I'm just going to talk 1:14:20.064 --> 1:14:21.624 to you about this thing. You know, so in a 1:14:21.664 --> 1:14:23.384 way that like being able to phone get back to 1:14:23.424 --> 1:14:26.864 your indie struggle might be weird. I'm very curious what 1:14:26.984 --> 1:14:28.744 you and Ted dance and talked about. 1:14:30.264 --> 1:14:31.024 Talk about afterwards. 1:14:31.064 --> 1:14:33.184 I hope, I hope it's not the same. It's the 1:14:33.304 --> 1:14:35.584 exact same conversation. That would be really weird. 1:14:35.664 --> 1:14:38.424 Now it's not. It's but they're all related to blackness. 1:14:39.584 --> 1:14:41.184 So a couple of fun questions. 1:14:41.224 --> 1:14:43.264 Then we'll get to the it's all fun, but anyway, 1:14:43.344 --> 1:14:45.704 just want I just want to know I've had moments 1:14:45.784 --> 1:14:47.144 like this, and I want to know what is it 1:14:47.264 --> 1:14:50.704 like when when somebody like James Gun is like this, like, 1:14:50.784 --> 1:14:53.784 did you have any connection to James Gun? So James 1:14:53.864 --> 1:14:56.344 Gun director of like I guess he's in charge of 1:14:56.424 --> 1:15:00.104 DC Movies now and was also director of many Marvel movies. 1:15:00.424 --> 1:15:01.944 Just it was like, this is what I'm listening to 1:15:02.024 --> 1:15:04.424 as I write Superman, Yeah, and you were on the 1:15:04.584 --> 1:15:05.584 this is what I listened to the. 1:15:05.624 --> 1:15:08.744 Playlist put out his I don't know why James Gun 1:15:08.864 --> 1:15:10.584 is sitting around listening to indie rap. 1:15:10.664 --> 1:15:16.064 I don't know why. I had heard whispers of that 1:15:16.184 --> 1:15:16.903 and I guess. 1:15:16.744 --> 1:15:21.184 His brother, Sean Gunn Yeah, is a real big Indie fan, 1:15:21.504 --> 1:15:24.704 Anie Rap fans who. So you know, I'm not sure 1:15:24.744 --> 1:15:27.104 how the flow is going to who thisss a hold 1:15:27.184 --> 1:15:30.264 or what first or whatever, but I had no idea 1:15:30.384 --> 1:15:31.944 something like that was coming down the pint, and it 1:15:32.024 --> 1:15:33.584 was amazing. I feel like there was a time in 1:15:33.624 --> 1:15:39.104 my career when that used to happen more. Yeah, you know, 1:15:39.184 --> 1:15:42.864 I think my work was newer on the scene, so 1:15:43.104 --> 1:15:45.744 more people we were discovering it, I guess at the time, 1:15:45.784 --> 1:15:47.624 and so I hadn't had nothing like that happened in 1:15:47.704 --> 1:15:49.544 a minute, So I thought that was real cool. 1:15:49.784 --> 1:15:54.904 Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're like, oh, like people people, my 1:15:54.984 --> 1:15:59.464 work's out there, right, Okay, I can be liked by 1:15:59.544 --> 1:16:03.864 people who were in the mainstream. Uh do you remember 1:16:03.944 --> 1:16:07.864 doing my podcast? You remember this? Do you? Was this 1:16:07.944 --> 1:16:11.344 during to you by us? I believe so, yes, I don't. 1:16:11.544 --> 1:16:13.744 Yeah, wow, yeah we listened to We went to a 1:16:13.984 --> 1:16:19.903 restaurant I believe in Berkeley, and I was after totally biased. 1:16:20.144 --> 1:16:22.184 We didn't even have I didn't even have microphones. I 1:16:22.304 --> 1:16:23.984 just had like a tape recorder on the table, I 1:16:24.024 --> 1:16:27.144 don't remember, and you heard everybody conversation in a room, 1:16:27.184 --> 1:16:29.304 including nods wow is. 1:16:29.304 --> 1:16:30.224 That still up somewhere? 1:16:30.864 --> 1:16:31.344 Probably? 1:16:32.224 --> 1:16:36.744 Wow, It's funny if you ask, I'm like it was 1:16:36.744 --> 1:16:38.224 so maybe it was after I moved back to Berkeley. 1:16:38.264 --> 1:16:39.984 There was like about a three or four year period 1:16:39.984 --> 1:16:42.744 where I was like, like it was the totally bias. 1:16:43.144 --> 1:16:46.024 It was like I felt like that period was like 1:16:46.184 --> 1:16:47.944 that period of my life was like the end of 1:16:47.984 --> 1:16:50.904 a Vietnam War movie where the survivors are just like 1:16:53.104 --> 1:16:54.864 and it took me a while to climb out and 1:16:54.904 --> 1:16:57.984 sort of like resettle into myself for a couple of years. 1:16:58.384 --> 1:17:00.104 Because also it was like I thought I was gonna 1:17:00.104 --> 1:17:01.264 have this show where I thought I was gonna have 1:17:01.264 --> 1:17:02.664 the show for twenty years, and then I had it 1:17:02.704 --> 1:17:04.664 for a year and then something I had to go 1:17:04.824 --> 1:17:07.104 like again, I think you said, like, oh my twenty 1:17:07.144 --> 1:17:09.224 twenty four is not doing what I thought I was 1:17:09.264 --> 1:17:11.864 gonna do. And my wife's pregnant with our second kid, 1:17:12.624 --> 1:17:14.864 so that's like a real like this is the It's 1:17:14.904 --> 1:17:16.544 funny you say that, because right now is the closest 1:17:16.544 --> 1:17:18.184 I've ever felt to that, just because it's like it's 1:17:18.344 --> 1:17:21.704 I feel like it's all on me, nobody's out there like, 1:17:21.984 --> 1:17:24.224 like you said, nobody's no emails coming in and going. 1:17:24.824 --> 1:17:28.944 We found like two million dollars. It has your name 1:17:29.024 --> 1:17:31.064 on it, so just just want to get it to you. 1:17:31.104 --> 1:17:34.184 Just send us the VENMO. That's not gonna happen. So 1:17:34.544 --> 1:17:38.384 my kingdom for two million exactly. So Wow, that's things. 1:17:38.464 --> 1:17:40.264 That's a that took me. That took me back to 1:17:40.304 --> 1:17:42.863 a thing I don't remember, but I have like fleeting 1:17:42.984 --> 1:17:44.464 memories of but it's not. 1:17:44.704 --> 1:17:46.344 Well you you were, you were, You were doing me 1:17:46.424 --> 1:17:49.144 a great kindness and that's why I bring it up. Okay, 1:17:49.264 --> 1:17:51.744 well great kindness. Well I was happy to do it 1:17:51.784 --> 1:17:53.224 then I'm happy to do it now. I feel honored 1:17:53.224 --> 1:17:55.624 that you sat down with me. Uh. Two things before 1:17:55.664 --> 1:18:00.064 we leave. One, give me the mic the open Mic 1:18:00.104 --> 1:18:03.344 Eagle starter kit. The five songs that you would tell 1:18:03.424 --> 1:18:07.024 somebody if they're like, let's hey, what's this? Like, I 1:18:07.584 --> 1:18:09.064 think I'm ready to get it into open Mike Eagle. 1:18:09.104 --> 1:18:12.304 What are the five five of my song your songs? Yeah, 1:18:13.664 --> 1:18:19.504 dishes off of my second album, Rappers Die Natural Causes, uh, 1:18:20.784 --> 1:18:23.744 Ziggy Starfish because that's the song people like the most. 1:18:23.904 --> 1:18:24.704 Okay, it's good, it's good. 1:18:24.944 --> 1:18:26.104 Now you want to put the hit in there. You 1:18:26.184 --> 1:18:34.664 want to put give them the hit. Yeah, happy Wasteland day. 1:18:35.744 --> 1:18:41.304 To give people a sense of my uh social commentary. Uh, 1:18:42.264 --> 1:18:48.664 I'd say, okay, but I'm the phone screen to give 1:18:48.704 --> 1:18:54.224 people a sense of how fascinated I am with the mundane. Okay, 1:18:57.024 --> 1:19:00.904 one more, one more would be I think I would go, 1:19:03.384 --> 1:19:09.304 oh man, that's tough. One more. 1:19:10.064 --> 1:19:17.344 I'm gonna a dark comedy late show because I'm I'm 1:19:18.224 --> 1:19:21.304 I'm doing self deprecation, I'm doing social commentary, but I'm 1:19:21.344 --> 1:19:22.544 also just killing you a bar. 1:19:23.824 --> 1:19:25.224 Killing you today. 1:19:25.904 --> 1:19:27.904 Yeah, okay, good we need It's funny. 1:19:27.904 --> 1:19:30.104 Even for those titles I think you you you, sort 1:19:30.104 --> 1:19:32.784 of you go to sort of you exude all black, 1:19:34.024 --> 1:19:39.584 Indie black. None of those were like uh Maserati on 1:19:39.744 --> 1:19:43.344 my YACHTI like, none of those were like yeah, none 1:19:43.384 --> 1:19:47.224 of those were like bullet holes for my soul, you know, no, no, 1:19:47.424 --> 1:19:51.624 no bottle service, no bottles. And then is there a 1:19:51.784 --> 1:19:54.024 lesson from your life or something that you think about 1:19:54.064 --> 1:19:55.664 that you're like, this is like a thing to get 1:19:55.744 --> 1:19:57.464 you through or a thing that you feel like it's true, 1:19:57.944 --> 1:19:59.544 like sort of a thing that you like think about 1:19:59.584 --> 1:20:01.824 like or sort of things of things that are like 1:20:01.984 --> 1:20:03.864 that you sort of like this is a this helps 1:20:03.904 --> 1:20:04.744 to find who I am. 1:20:04.864 --> 1:20:07.624 To me, I just you know, I I. 1:20:12.064 --> 1:20:13.784 What's the word I do? 1:20:14.064 --> 1:20:18.943 I have this deep, deep sense of gratitude for everything 1:20:19.024 --> 1:20:21.344 that I've been able to do, and a lot of 1:20:21.384 --> 1:20:25.944 it really goes back to like, I've. 1:20:25.984 --> 1:20:30.824 Done things that I dreamed of doing when I was 1:20:30.944 --> 1:20:37.344 fifteen or sixteen years old, dreamed of And you know, 1:20:38.144 --> 1:20:41.984 the big lesson for me is that you know, whether 1:20:42.024 --> 1:20:43.944 it's twenty twenty four and I got no money left 1:20:43.984 --> 1:20:46.584 and I'm trying to get a job or I'm I'm 1:20:46.664 --> 1:20:48.944 hustling the way I'm hustling right now, or if it's 1:20:49.984 --> 1:20:56.264 twenty there was a time in twenty eighteen when the 1:20:56.344 --> 1:21:02.664 New Negroes was on TV and being actively marketed. In 1:21:02.744 --> 1:21:05.624 the house I was living at the time, when I 1:21:05.864 --> 1:21:10.504 opened my bedroom window, there was a billboard with my 1:21:10.704 --> 1:21:14.984 face on it right on the next block that I 1:21:15.024 --> 1:21:21.384 could see through my bedroom window, and I just I never, 1:21:21.784 --> 1:21:24.264 like the worst of times, I never lose sight of 1:21:24.464 --> 1:21:31.544 of the the improbable things. M h. I've been able 1:21:31.704 --> 1:21:33.664 I've been able to do, and I just I just 1:21:33.744 --> 1:21:36.864 hold on to that gratitude a lot that gratitude is 1:21:36.944 --> 1:21:39.584 a big thing for me with my kids, like we 1:21:39.664 --> 1:21:42.104 talk about because I feel like the life they're living, 1:21:42.344 --> 1:21:44.064 they're sort of things that are happening because they sort 1:21:44.064 --> 1:21:45.904 of were born after my career started happening that they're 1:21:45.904 --> 1:21:47.544 sort of like, oh yeah, we just sort of like 1:21:47.784 --> 1:21:49.664 and so very early on I was like, I'm happy 1:21:49.744 --> 1:21:52.024 that they have this great life, that they're getting to 1:21:52.104 --> 1:21:54.424 do these things and meet people and like, but also 1:21:54.464 --> 1:21:56.264 I want you to be grateful. So at the end 1:21:56.264 --> 1:21:58.144 of the night, I would say when they were young, 1:21:58.264 --> 1:22:00.104 I still do with my youngest, tell me three things 1:22:00.104 --> 1:22:01.384 you're grateful for from today. 1:22:01.584 --> 1:22:03.824 Yes, this is the way to sort of reminds me like, 1:22:04.344 --> 1:22:05.903 this is not all supposed to happen. 1:22:05.664 --> 1:22:07.504 For really, and it seemsy to take it for granted, 1:22:07.504 --> 1:22:09.784 like you said, when they're born into it. Yeah, Like 1:22:09.984 --> 1:22:12.304 when I was jally biased, my oldest daughter was one 1:22:12.864 --> 1:22:15.264 and she's like, I have a picture somewhere of her 1:22:15.344 --> 1:22:19.864 and her little friend blowing bubbles with don Cheedle. I 1:22:19.904 --> 1:22:23.544 don't know that being on my show, but I have 1:22:23.664 --> 1:22:26.304 this picture of her blowing Yeah, no photo, and it's 1:22:26.384 --> 1:22:28.944 like one day you're looking at me like what Wow, 1:22:29.264 --> 1:22:32.464 you know, and so gratitude. That is a great lesson. 1:22:32.504 --> 1:22:32.664 Man. 1:22:32.744 --> 1:22:34.464 I'm so happy that we were able to sit down 1:22:34.544 --> 1:22:36.784 and talk. And I really do feel like we were 1:22:36.784 --> 1:22:39.264 sort of of a kind and not like that. I 1:22:39.304 --> 1:22:41.144 think that like I would not be the rapper you 1:22:41.224 --> 1:22:42.584 were if I was a rapper. But that's how I 1:22:42.624 --> 1:22:44.784 explained it to my wife. You know, me, you and 1:22:44.864 --> 1:22:49.144 quest Love. Oh yeah, all the same guy. It's a different, 1:22:49.184 --> 1:22:51.984 different shuffle. The last thing I asked you from homework, 1:22:52.024 --> 1:22:53.664 what is a cause that you want people to know 1:22:53.704 --> 1:22:56.504 more about her, pay attention to or support. I would 1:22:56.624 --> 1:23:00.344 love people if they're able to to support the Inglewood 1:23:00.824 --> 1:23:05.184 Mutual Aid Fund. There you go. I've tasked myself with 1:23:05.464 --> 1:23:08.904 with getting more involved in the in the mutual aid. 1:23:08.944 --> 1:23:12.184 It's a local to me, especially. 1:23:12.664 --> 1:23:15.304 Coming out of the pandemic, coming out of the fires, 1:23:15.424 --> 1:23:18.064 coming you know, just with with all into Trump, Yeah, 1:23:18.224 --> 1:23:20.224 coming into Trump especially. 1:23:21.904 --> 1:23:22.104 You know. 1:23:23.904 --> 1:23:24.064 I do. 1:23:24.304 --> 1:23:27.744 I do a podcast called past Do Uh. That podcast 1:23:27.864 --> 1:23:30.144 is where earlier we were, you know, we were lightweight, 1:23:30.184 --> 1:23:32.504 getting into numbers. We really talked members because. 1:23:32.544 --> 1:23:34.904 Like the whole podcast is about how tough it is 1:23:34.984 --> 1:23:40.624 to navigate this current economy as creatives and you know, 1:23:40.744 --> 1:23:42.744 one thing that just comes up over and over again 1:23:42.784 --> 1:23:46.344 in these conversations is how important it is that we're active. 1:23:46.104 --> 1:23:49.544 In the communities that we live around. And you know, 1:23:50.184 --> 1:23:54.704 the community I live in is Anglewood, and you know 1:23:54.824 --> 1:23:57.384 that's that's the mutual ay that I would love people 1:23:57.504 --> 1:24:00.424 to support again. And so I just talked to my 1:24:00.544 --> 1:24:03.104 previous podcast guests. We talked about mutual aid and I 1:24:03.224 --> 1:24:06.144 was introducing it to him as like mutually He was like, 1:24:06.184 --> 1:24:07.784 what is that? And so to hear you then shout 1:24:07.784 --> 1:24:09.424 that out, I'm going to send that link to him, 1:24:09.984 --> 1:24:12.064 just sort of like because I think mutual aid is 1:24:12.424 --> 1:24:15.384 if America is going to survive. Mutual aid is how 1:24:15.464 --> 1:24:16.904 we're gonna is one of the ways we're gonna be 1:24:16.904 --> 1:24:18.624 able to survive. The only way we can is to 1:24:18.864 --> 1:24:21.944 is to help each other out and just put the 1:24:22.384 --> 1:24:25.184 resources and money or goods directly in the hands of 1:24:25.224 --> 1:24:31.704 people who need them without navigating through traditional foundational institutional 1:24:31.824 --> 1:24:35.104 grifters grifterscripts like let me, let me get a taste, 1:24:35.144 --> 1:24:37.064 let me for you before you give the before you 1:24:37.144 --> 1:24:38.384 give her that blanket. I'm gonna need to have a 1:24:38.424 --> 1:24:40.624 blanket corner. 1:24:40.704 --> 1:24:44.344 The blanket all right man the last So you're with me? Yeah, 1:24:44.544 --> 1:24:46.224 all right, I knew you were. Thanks brother. 1:24:48.344 --> 1:24:50.184 I don't know why I ended that way because felt 1:24:50.184 --> 1:24:52.744 like we need enough way to end it. We can 1:24:52.824 --> 1:24:54.624 leave this in with me awkwardly feeling bad about the 1:24:54.624 --> 1:25:00.464 fist bump. Thank you for listening to my interview with 1:25:00.664 --> 1:25:03.464 open Mic Eagle conversation why to say interview. Thank you 1:25:03.544 --> 1:25:07.704 for listening again. O Mike eagles new album, Doom comes 1:25:07.744 --> 1:25:10.504 out August thirteenth. His last album is out now from 1:25:10.624 --> 1:25:13.344 last year, Neighborhood Gods Unlimited. He can't be stopped. His 1:25:13.504 --> 1:25:16.544 podcast is past due. You can watch them stream on Twitch. 1:25:16.864 --> 1:25:21.144 You can also see he puts clips up on YouTube 1:25:21.944 --> 1:25:23.584 and he's just a good dude. So check out open 1:25:23.584 --> 1:25:27.704 Mike Eagle and open Mic Eagle shouted out Inglewood Mutual Aid. 1:25:27.784 --> 1:25:30.504 You can find them best on Instagram. Go on Instagram 1:25:30.664 --> 1:25:33.944 at Inglewood Mutual Aid. You can find them there and 1:25:34.184 --> 1:25:36.224 support mutual Aid. It's the one that we're going to 1:25:36.304 --> 1:25:39.664 save the universe, I think is through putting money in 1:25:39.824 --> 1:25:42.024 the hands of people who need it or putting resources 1:25:42.064 --> 1:25:43.224 in the hands of the people who need it. So 1:25:43.744 --> 1:25:46.424 Inglewood Mutual Aid. Even if you don't live in Inglewood, 1:25:46.504 --> 1:25:49.863 you can help people there. Thank you to Rabagrant Productions 1:25:49.864 --> 1:25:53.264 for helping me produce this. Thank you to Pushkin Industries 1:25:53.344 --> 1:25:56.064 for letting me host the podcast on their site on 1:25:56.144 --> 1:25:59.144 their network, and also thank you to who knows Best. 1:25:58.944 --> 1:26:01.904 Production, which is me and my wife. But you haven't 1:26:01.904 --> 1:26:04.224 seen her yet, so me yeah. 1:26:04.304 --> 1:26:07.224 And also shout out to Chris Dowd from Fishbone for 1:26:07.344 --> 1:26:10.104 the theme song. Check out the Who's with Me substack, 1:26:10.144 --> 1:26:11.863 which is the best place to keep up with everything 1:26:12.104 --> 1:26:16.344 against Santum Comedy dates September twenty fifth and twenty sixth, Stanford, Connecticut, 1:26:16.624 --> 1:26:23.024 October first, Stanford University, and November thirteenth, Bellingham, Washington. Thank 1:26:23.064 --> 1:26:25.544 you for tuning in and let's say what this week? 1:26:25.544 --> 1:26:29.144 Why don't you do something good for yourself, for your neighborhood, 1:26:29.424 --> 1:26:31.784 for your community, and you know, for the world. 1:26:32.464 --> 1:26:32.784 Thanks