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Speaker 1: Bushkin. Hey everybody, it's me W Cambell. Welcome back to

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Speaker 1: my podcast, Who's with Me? Episode twelve, featuring today's guest

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Speaker 1: open Mike Eagle, rapper and Twitch streamer and good talker.

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Speaker 1: I really admire people who know how to keep the

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Speaker 1: ball up in the air. Mike streams on Twitch. You'll

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Speaker 1: follow him on Twitch. I don't know what that is.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I know what it is, but I don't

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Speaker 1: know how to follow people there. But he's really good

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Speaker 1: at keeping the ball up in the air. This is

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Speaker 1: a great conversation. You might notice that I'm sort of

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Speaker 1: excited at the beginning because I hadn't really had a

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Speaker 1: conversation with Mike before.

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Speaker 2: I know, he said a lot.

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Speaker 1: But Mike and somebody I have just sort of known

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Speaker 1: perfetly through the years and always admired him. And also

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Speaker 1: whenever I'm around black men who I feel like we

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Speaker 1: have sort of a common background, don't you know. I

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Speaker 1: have not been around a ton of those types of

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Speaker 1: black dudes in my life, I mean more as an adult.

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Speaker 1: But whenever I'm around black dudes are I'm like, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you kind of grew up like me not to be

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Speaker 1: in my group. The same way, but we do have

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Speaker 1: some common similarities In there, I get a little bit

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Speaker 1: too excited. So I was a little bit too excited

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Speaker 1: in this episode at someone. I had to be like,

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Speaker 1: calm down, Jamal. Jamal's what I call myself when I'm

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Speaker 1: criticizing myself. Nothing, there's anything wrong with the name Jamal.

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Speaker 1: I've really gone off the track. Anyway, Before we get

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Speaker 1: too deep into this stand up comedy dates, I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: do this off top of my head September twenty fifth

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Speaker 1: and twenty six in Stamford, Connecticut at the New York

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Speaker 1: Comedy Club. October first at Stanford University at the Stanford

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Speaker 1: Memorial Theater, and then November thirteenth in Bellingham, Washington at

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Speaker 1: the Mount Baker Theater. Get your tickets at wcmal Bell

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Speaker 1: dot com or Google however you want to do it.

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Speaker 1: Tickets still available. Please get your tickets so I can

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Speaker 1: still keep doing stand up comedy. Also hoping that people

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Speaker 1: who listen to the podcast also comes to me do

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Speaker 1: stand up. Maybe there's new people who were just meeting

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Speaker 1: me through this comes to me, you stand up. I

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Speaker 1: hope that's true. So here's the thing. Everybody my opinions

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Speaker 1: sometimes get me into a little bit of a Internet controversy,

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Speaker 1: as to say hot water.

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Speaker 2: It's not real hot water, it's just Internet controversy.

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Speaker 1: And you know, some of the stuff has happened through

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Speaker 1: the podcast, also through my substack, which is also named

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Speaker 1: pos with Me, you know, or just sometimes I get

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Speaker 1: you know, my opinions are what I do gets me

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Speaker 1: a lot of extra attention, Like through the podcast. That

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Speaker 1: Ted Danson interview that was the second episode got a

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Speaker 1: lot of attention, which means I had a lot of

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Speaker 1: people on my ig and my Instagram at w Combbell

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Speaker 1: with a lot of opinions about ted Danson apologizing for blackface.

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Speaker 2: So I, you know, stand by that episode.

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Speaker 1: But then also sort of around that same time, I

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Speaker 1: mean we've talked about a lot of the podcast, just

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Speaker 1: a lot of like uh, Kevin Hart Roast talk that

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Speaker 1: sort of just as we were recording the episodes that

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Speaker 1: was out in the out in the world. Then I

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Speaker 1: wrote a big substack about it. I declared that the

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Speaker 1: Roast was dead, and I just didn't know that that

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Speaker 1: was a big deal, but people maybe because I'm a comedian,

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Speaker 1: but you know, as many people pointed out Michael Harriet,

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Speaker 1: the great Michael Harriet, who you can also find on

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Speaker 1: substack and also out in the world, point out that

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Speaker 1: ross aren't really a significant part of stand up comedy.

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Speaker 1: They're just a thing that happens. But somehow stand up

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Speaker 1: comedians who do rosa acted like it's a part of

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Speaker 1: the tradition that we need. And so that got me

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Speaker 1: into a lot of like hot water with the Rogan sphere,

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Speaker 1: the comedians and the and the people who are fans

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Speaker 1: of that. I mean again, not hot water, because I

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Speaker 1: stand by what I said, so the water doesn't feel

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Speaker 1: that hot.

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Speaker 2: And then.

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Speaker 1: Look, I just thought it wasn't a good look for

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Speaker 1: Nate Barghetzi to be at the UFC event on the

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Speaker 1: White House lawn. I didn't think it was a good

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Speaker 1: look for anybody. But you know, it was my choice

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Speaker 1: to talk about Nate Barghesti, who's a comedian who, like

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Speaker 1: I think I've met him once or twice.

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Speaker 2: No, I know I've met him once or twice.

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Speaker 1: And again, it's not even about me criticizing him a

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Speaker 1: little bit. It's about that, but it's also just about,

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Speaker 1: hey man, that's not a good look, even if you

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Speaker 1: are if you're trying to sell you know, arenas what

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Speaker 1: you are and you're trying to open amusement parks.

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Speaker 2: Maybe you don't do that.

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Speaker 1: But people really took that to heart, and I don't know,

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Speaker 1: I felt like I turned on comedy. I've heard, you know,

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Speaker 1: I've heard some comedians we're not happy about me. Actually

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Speaker 1: stumbled across one the other day on Instagram. Who's like

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Speaker 1: calling Nate Barghetti a fascist is like calling w com

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Speaker 1: Out Bell a comedian. And I just thought, ah, you

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Speaker 1: need better writers. Yeah, I am a comedian, and we

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Speaker 1: come in all shapes and sizes and flavors. And I'm

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Speaker 1: very clear of the tradition of comedy. I walk in

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Speaker 1: and just because your comedian does't mean you're funny to everybody.

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Speaker 1: That's not That's just how it works. So I'm not

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Speaker 1: here trying to like act like I don't think it's

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Speaker 1: comedy is about just about how many tickets you sell,

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Speaker 1: you know, uh, And it'll be clear, do whatever kind

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Speaker 1: of comedy you want to do.

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Speaker 2: It's just, you know, and I have opinions about it. Anyway.

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Speaker 1: People had feeling especially again comics had feelings about it.

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Speaker 2: And then Leslie Jones was on the podcast.

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Speaker 1: A couple of weeks ago, and man, we put out

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Speaker 1: a clip that episode where she was really just she

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Speaker 1: was talking about Ghostbusters, but then she started preaching about

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Speaker 1: why are you so upset that women are in a

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Speaker 1: Ghostbusters movie? And then it went to don't you think

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Speaker 1: writers want their writings to be reinterpreted? Like Shakespeare and

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Speaker 1: Charles Dickens, And then it ended on God created a

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Speaker 1: little bit of everything, so we should just be prepared

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Speaker 1: for whatever the world has for us. And it was

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Speaker 1: just beautiful. It was a beautiful, like inspiring, well put

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Speaker 1: together rant that also just felt like, like I said,

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Speaker 1: it felt like she was preaching. And man, so many

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Speaker 1: people we posted that thing up on ig Ig seems

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Speaker 1: to be the new hub of the trolls.

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Speaker 2: I think they all left Twitter because Twitter got boring,

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Speaker 2: so they've.

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Speaker 1: Sort of moved to ig a little bit to threads too,

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Speaker 1: But so many internet trolls were just like Ghostbusters was bad,

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Speaker 1: the all women Ghostbusters was bad. And some people were

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Speaker 1: like it was like treated the original Ghostbuster movies like

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Speaker 1: it was somehow a sacred text, like it was like

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Speaker 1: she had somehow like she had her and the women

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Speaker 1: who are in Ghostbusters that somehow like mess with one

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Speaker 1: of the sacred texts of humanity. And you know, my

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Speaker 1: favorite response to someone's like, you know, Ghostbusters two sucked, right,

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Speaker 1: Like we all think that Ghostbusters too with the dudes

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Speaker 1: was not a good movie, Like it has the Bobby

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Speaker 1: Brown song, but that's about it.

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Speaker 2: So like and and here's the other part.

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Speaker 1: It was. My ig comvers section was also flooded with

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Speaker 1: people who were like, oh my god, the Ghostbusters all women.

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Speaker 1: Ghostbusters is my favorite, because of course, because that's how

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Speaker 1: it works. Parents were like I showed it to my daughter,

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Speaker 1: or people were like, I never got into the original.

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Speaker 1: Because of course people liked it. Just because the movie

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Speaker 1: again didn't make a ton of money and I don't

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Speaker 1: know how much money made or wasn't a critical hit

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Speaker 1: doesn't mean people are gonna like, aren't gonna like love

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Speaker 1: it or like it like it's so funny. I'm old

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Speaker 1: now to see things go from like eh to like oh,

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Speaker 1: like I hate to tell you all this, but like

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Speaker 1: lots of things I've seen in my life go from

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Speaker 1: like ah to like, oh we like that now, nostalgia

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Speaker 1: we like that, or oh we've had a chance to

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Speaker 1: sit with this and we like it.

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Speaker 2: That's the whole idea behind a cult movie.

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Speaker 1: It's a movie that like, originally was ignored and then

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Speaker 1: people really found value it and we all understand that

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Speaker 1: when it's our cult movie. You know, they just made

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Speaker 1: shout out to the Waynes brother Jes just made another

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Speaker 1: scary movie. And those those first scary movies, they weren't

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Speaker 1: like monster, huge mega hits. It's just the people who

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Speaker 1: liked them liked them, and they were never really reviewed

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Speaker 1: all that well.

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Speaker 2: And this is not me, this is about how things

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Speaker 2: are reviewed.

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Speaker 1: And guess what. Eventually, some people are like, we want

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Speaker 1: another scary movie, and the waves were like, would you

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Speaker 1: like another scary movie? And they're like, yeah, we would,

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Speaker 1: and they made another one and it was It's made

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Speaker 1: over one hundred million dollars, and guess what, it still

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Speaker 1: didn't get great reviews everywhere. Just because the culture has

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Speaker 1: scare culls doesn't like something doesn't mean that that are

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Speaker 1: there are people who like it. And I think you

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Speaker 1: see it with black stuff all the time. You see

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Speaker 1: it with anything that's not appealing to straight white men,

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Speaker 1: you know. And so the all women Ghostbusters just also

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Speaker 1: came out at a time when the alt right internet

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Speaker 1: that later became the Manisphere, and Maga was really starting

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Speaker 1: to like feel itself. So like the ben Shapiros and

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Speaker 1: the mileu Ianopolises really were like felt like they finally

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Speaker 1: were being black, see what would happen?

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Speaker 2: They were feeling themselves well, so.

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Speaker 1: They were being u astro tarrifted by billionaires so they

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Speaker 1: could take a lot of space on the internet. They

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Speaker 1: were really feeling themselves really, and so Miley the Anapolis

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Speaker 1: made it his point to like take down Leslie specifically,

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Speaker 1: like of course, because she was the one black person

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Speaker 1: in the movie The Black Woman, and really like like

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Speaker 1: like she was doxed, she was harassed, and there's a

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Speaker 1: version of Leslie Jones that never recovers from that, because

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Speaker 1: that happens to people when you go through some shit

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Speaker 1: on the you know, through in the public eye, where

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Speaker 1: you just are you are, You're never the same. But

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Speaker 1: the thing you could see from my interview with Leslie

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Speaker 1: Jones that she is just as loud and proud and abuliant.

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Speaker 1: I think I'm saying that, well, can somebody let me

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Speaker 1: know abuliant as she ever was? And she's not tripping.

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Speaker 1: But it was so funny to me that there's just

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Speaker 1: an aspect of kind of person mostly dudes who just

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Speaker 1: want to argue on the thing they care about, not

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Speaker 1: about like it's okay that a woman to go expressors exist,

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Speaker 1: it's about I didn't like it. Okay, a lot of

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Speaker 1: people did, but I didn't like it. Okay, a lot

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Speaker 1: of people did, but I didn't like it. Years ago,

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Speaker 1: I remember this was when the Vagina Monologues was big.

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Speaker 1: I went to see like a production of Vagina Monologues

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Speaker 1: with my then girlfriend future wife, and afterwards, I remember

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Speaker 1: she asked me my opinion and I was like, I

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Speaker 1: don't know that I'm supposed to have And at the time,

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Speaker 1: I don't think I phrased it well, but what I

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Speaker 1: was really saying was like, I don't think that was

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Speaker 1: for me, and I'm okay with that, Like because I

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Speaker 1: felt like I don't know what I would say about it.

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Speaker 1: It wouldn't sound like I was somehow trying to push

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Speaker 1: the Vagina logs through my man brain and make it

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Speaker 1: make sense in a way that it's like, I don't

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Speaker 1: think that that was written for me to understand it,

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Speaker 1: And that's fine, that's fine.

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Speaker 2: You see it in music all the time.

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Speaker 1: I remember I used to be a young person who's like,

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Speaker 1: pop music is bad, boy bands are bad just because

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Speaker 1: they weren't the music I liked, And you realize, what

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Speaker 1: are you doing?

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Speaker 2: Let people enjoy their.

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Speaker 1: Thing unless you have something to say, like something to

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Speaker 1: say about like I don't like how Justin Timberlake treated

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Speaker 1: Janet Jackson after the super Bowl, and he also happens

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Speaker 1: to be in a boy band, but not like just

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Speaker 1: I don't like that whole thing. So men get caught

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Speaker 1: up in their opinions, and then they want to share

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Speaker 1: their opinions. And so I ended up fighting the comments

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Speaker 1: slot on ig go to my itg at Wombell, not fighting,

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Speaker 1: but just really like making it clear that like I'm

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Speaker 1: not gonna hear I'm not gonna let you just do that.

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Speaker 1: So anyway, having said that, I also spend more time

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Speaker 1: on the comments on YouTube. I'm reading them, but I'm

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Speaker 1: not engaging because I just I've been I've spent so

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Speaker 1: much in my life being a lurker on YouTube that

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Speaker 1: it's hard to like actually leave comments.

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Speaker 2: But I'll start leaving comments on these videos. I make that.

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Speaker 1: I claim that today, So look for me in the

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Speaker 1: comments on the YouTube videos. Also, I can subscribe and

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Speaker 1: hype do all the things and uh next my conversation

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Speaker 1: with open Mic Eagle. I just like to do it

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Speaker 1: a lot, and I enjoyed talking to him. Hope to

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Speaker 1: talk to him some more. We talked a little bit

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Speaker 1: about how he came and saw Fishbone with me in

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Speaker 1: La when they performed at the Garami Museum.

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Speaker 2: Shout out to Fishbone, Fishbone.

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Speaker 1: But that was the most we'd ever really hung out,

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Speaker 1: although he does remind me that I did his podcast

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Speaker 1: at one point, which I was like, I'd totally forgotten about,

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Speaker 1: because the we'll talk about why've forgotten about? Nothing against him,

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Speaker 1: just about mostly against where I was in my life

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Speaker 1: at that point. He is always on tour. You can

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Speaker 1: check him out his I didn't notice. He has a

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Speaker 1: new album coming out. His last album that is out now,

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Speaker 1: called Neighborhood Gods Unlimited is out right now, and then

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Speaker 1: his next album, which releases very shortly after you hear this,

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Speaker 1: is called Doomed and it releases on August thirteenth. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: great to have open Mic Eagle on. You can see

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Speaker 1: at the beginning I like him so much, I'm actually

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Speaker 1: acting weird, so I settled down eventually, But yeah, shout

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Speaker 1: out to Open My Eagle. Also check out his podcast

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Speaker 1: with Anna Marie Cox called Past Do. Check him out

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Speaker 1: on Twitch. He's on social media. He's on YouTube. Check

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Speaker 1: him out here. If you're on YouTube, he posts things

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Speaker 1: on YouTube where he just talks about things in the

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Speaker 1: culture's interested in.

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Speaker 2: He's just a one stop shop and he's great anyway. Enjoy.

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Speaker 3: Hey, thanks for watching an episode of Who's with Me.

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Speaker 3: If you're on YouTube, please like and subscribe, share, hit

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Speaker 3: the hype button. I hear it makes all the difference.

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Speaker 3: Please like, subscribe, share, hit the hype button. Thank you.

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Speaker 1: I'll tell you I'm five ten. Really, people you carry

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Speaker 1: yourself taller than that.

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Speaker 4: Oh that's good. That's the years of practice. Yeah, maybe

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Speaker 4: they got a big old I.

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Speaker 2: Was definitely like this.

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Speaker 1: I think also people carry themselves taller and shorter. That

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Speaker 1: has nothing to do with their height. Yeah, because I

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Speaker 1: will literally people have known for years will not see

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Speaker 1: me for a little while, and I will see them like, man,

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Speaker 1: come on, when'd you get so tall? Like you're still growing? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think it's just like I don't walk around like

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Speaker 1: you don't. People on top of the head a lot.

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Speaker 1: Now you should probably do it. Like once a year,

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Speaker 1: just to let people. Don't lift people up and go

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Speaker 1: look at you down there, look at you, hey, Tom Cruise,

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Speaker 1: put me down. It's not the way you get Movie

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Speaker 1: roles haven't done any of the Mission Impossible movies because

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Speaker 1: I picked him up the first time I met him.

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Speaker 1: Uh yeah, so I think. But anyway, so anyway, the

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Speaker 1: first thing I want to say is you are You're

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Speaker 1: not as tall as I thought you were. Okay, well

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Speaker 1: I don't.

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Speaker 4: I'm going to be spending the rest of our conversation

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Speaker 4: processing that.

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Speaker 1: It makes me feel so many ways. It once all

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Speaker 1: right for real though, thank you for doing this, Thank

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Speaker 1: you for having me. No, I appreciate thank you for.

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Speaker 4: Being willing to talk to people less famous than Ted Dancing.

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Speaker 4: That's really nice to you. You don't have to do that.

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Speaker 4: You could be Ted dancing.

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Speaker 1: Or that's the bar, that's the bar. Good. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: appreciate it. Yeah, well, well I appreciate you appreciating that.

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Speaker 1: I have to say, it's not exactly what I thought

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Speaker 1: about this, like what's the bar? But I do like

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Speaker 1: thinking that, like it's it is it between you two? Well,

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Speaker 1: I don't.

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Speaker 4: I would not like to think of myself as the

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Speaker 4: low bar.

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Speaker 1: No, You're not the low bar. So then I'm just

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Speaker 1: saying that's the bar. I'm not saying. Yeah, No, I

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Speaker 1: will go lower than you. I promise over the course

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Speaker 1: of this podcast, I will go much lower than Mike.

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Speaker 1: I think I really love it if we change the subject.

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Speaker 1: Really cool, Do you do that? No? I do actually

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Speaker 1: want to start this with start every episode giving people

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Speaker 1: their flowers. Oh I like flowers, so let's do that,

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Speaker 1: because what we just did was not that. So that's

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Speaker 1: not what I meant to do. It's just I get

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Speaker 1: caught up in things. I so I don't remember. I

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Speaker 1: know we met around the time I was on Totally Biased,

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Speaker 1: that I visited you in the office while you guys

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Speaker 1: were in production.

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Speaker 2: I know, I don't remember it because I was crazy then.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: It was a wild time. Yeah, it was a wild time.

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Speaker 4: I think I was friends with a lot of people

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Speaker 4: on your staff at that time too.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think I can think also the connection

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Speaker 1: game through Hannibal maybe probably.

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Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, why can't I remember her name right now?

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Speaker 4: But she was a writer on your show who I

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Speaker 4: was working a lot with in LA at the time,

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Speaker 4: Eliza Skinner. Yes, yes, Yeah, shout out to Eliza Skinner,

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Speaker 4: She's yeah, I believe she was very instrumental in mean.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Now, I remember like at the time being like, oh,

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Speaker 1: that guy's he seems good, and my whole thing was like,

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Speaker 1: how do I make the show better? Can that guy

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Speaker 1: be on the show, but then never being able to

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Speaker 1: grab all the pieces.

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Speaker 4: You want to You had a lot you were trying

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Speaker 4: to do. I think this was right after it went

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Speaker 4: like five nights a week or something, so it was

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Speaker 4: nutty in there. I remember it was nuts.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: It is a defining part of my life of like,

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Speaker 1: I don't ever want to do show biz like that again.

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Speaker 1: I understand.

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Speaker 4: I also, so shortly after you had that show, I

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Speaker 4: had my show, The New Negroes, which is another experience

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Speaker 4: that I don't want to have another one like that again.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So this brings me Pier two flowers. There's a

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Speaker 1: way in which I see you out in the world

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Speaker 1: very fiercely doing what you want to do the way

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Speaker 1: you want to do it. And I know, and I

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Speaker 1: think I told you this, I think I did it.

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Speaker 1: But like when I would and saw you live open

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Speaker 1: for clipping recently in Berkeley, and I was telling my wife,

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Speaker 1: and she wasn't familiar with your music, and I was like,

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Speaker 1: do you remember what I told you? I said to her,

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Speaker 1: I do remember what you said?

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Speaker 4: You said, He's like, if he's like me, if I

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Speaker 4: wrapped talking about yourself.

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Speaker 1: I mean as a way to sort of communicate what

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Speaker 1: kind of wrap she was getting into, that's a really

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Speaker 1: smart way to do it. Yeah, I mean it's you know,

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Speaker 1: even whether it's true or not, it certainly she was like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: I get it. And then I don't think I would

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Speaker 1: be like you if I was a rapper, but I

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Speaker 1: do think that I would be taking an alternate path.

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Speaker 1: Like yeah, so it wasn't about how you did, it

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Speaker 1: was about that's the path you take. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: I think it's about the spirit of the thing. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 4: you know, I think I think we approached things with

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Speaker 4: a similar spirit.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And so I really having seen you since Toty biased

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Speaker 1: and having seen you just clearly like I'm over here.

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Speaker 1: Think about that, like I'm over here, I know everything. No,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot over there, so much over There's so

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Speaker 1: much over there. It's like they're having so much fun.

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Speaker 2: They claim to have a lot of fun over there.

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Speaker 1: There's lots, but I'm over here, and I know being

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Speaker 1: a person who's also over here. You know, I live

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Speaker 1: in Oakland, which is even more like I'm over here,

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Speaker 1: which is a version of ib over here because I'm

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Speaker 1: not in LA or New York, but just the idea

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Speaker 1: of like how how hard that is to always be

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Speaker 1: over there, but also ultimately there's satisfaction in being over

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Speaker 1: there because you're very clear where you're supposed to be.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, And what I find about myself is, you know,

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Speaker 4: I live in LA, but I'm still over there. Exactly

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Speaker 4: when I go to New York, I'm still over there.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you know.

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Speaker 4: So it's like it's it's it's a it's a sort

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Speaker 4: of spiritual geography that I take with me kind of

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Speaker 4: wherever I go. And you know, I might be at

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Speaker 4: a party with a bunch of people who are not

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Speaker 4: over there, but even when I'm over there, yeah, I'm

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Speaker 4: over there.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, even at that party, you're probably in the room

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Speaker 1: at that party that's the over there room. Yeah. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think I am the room in there.

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Speaker 2: I was.

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Speaker 1: I think I was born over there, and so I

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Speaker 1: sort of knew from a early age. I can't get

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Speaker 1: I can't get there. I'm over you know, I can't

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00:18:34,624 --> 00:18:39,304
Speaker 1: get here. I'm mixing up the metaphors. But yeah, but anyway,

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Speaker 1: I knew that there was a place where everybody was

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Speaker 1: coagulating and assembling and I maybe get close, but I

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Speaker 1: knew that I don't belong with those people. Not that

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Speaker 1: I can't enjoy myself sometimes, not that I don't enjoy

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Speaker 1: some of what comes out of that, but like you know,

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Speaker 1: I was very aware that, like that's not for me,

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Speaker 1: and so early on I was like, so I got

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Speaker 1: to stop even pretending like I'm going that way.

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Speaker 2: You know, was it the same for you or were you?

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Speaker 1: Were you with all the people and then you left

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Speaker 1: or were you always like the outside the party?

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Speaker 4: I was with all of the people because there was

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Speaker 4: a point in my life where the people is all

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Speaker 4: I knew. So I knew, I knew how to speak people,

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Speaker 4: so so I could move around, okay, But I always

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00:19:22,544 --> 00:19:26,624
Speaker 4: felt a little off right. It was really It wasn't

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Speaker 4: really until I discovered like the underground hip hop community

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Speaker 4: in Chicago, like the dudes who was breakdancing, graffiti and

428
00:19:36,064 --> 00:19:40,624
Speaker 4: DJing and freestyle. And when I found this group of

429
00:19:40,664 --> 00:19:47,344
Speaker 4: people and I found the the real meritocracy of that too.

430
00:19:47,464 --> 00:19:50,384
Speaker 4: It was like, Oh, I can just be over here

431
00:19:50,424 --> 00:19:52,504
Speaker 4: with people who like music that I like, and if

432
00:19:52,544 --> 00:19:55,504
Speaker 4: I practice and apply myself to getting good at these

433
00:19:55,584 --> 00:19:58,744
Speaker 4: weird activities that we all seem to love doing, then

434
00:19:58,784 --> 00:20:00,664
Speaker 4: I got a little thing for myself and I can

435
00:20:00,704 --> 00:20:04,224
Speaker 4: feel I can build a sense of selfhood based on

436
00:20:04,784 --> 00:20:10,664
Speaker 4: my accomplishments and my dedication to these arts. And that's

437
00:20:10,664 --> 00:20:13,424
Speaker 4: when my my over thereness felt really complete.

438
00:20:13,624 --> 00:20:16,424
Speaker 1: Okay, so it sounds like you weren't kid who grew

439
00:20:16,504 --> 00:20:18,144
Speaker 1: up saying I Am going to grow up and be

440
00:20:18,144 --> 00:20:18,624
Speaker 1: a rapper.

441
00:20:18,864 --> 00:20:21,024
Speaker 4: No, Okay, I was. I used to be kind of

442
00:20:21,064 --> 00:20:22,864
Speaker 4: scared of rap music when I was a little kid.

443
00:20:22,944 --> 00:20:25,023
Speaker 1: I mean, so I'm a little bit older than you,

444
00:20:25,104 --> 00:20:28,064
Speaker 1: so I have I have the entire like rap from

445
00:20:28,104 --> 00:20:31,224
Speaker 1: like the no rap, a little bit of rap, a

446
00:20:31,224 --> 00:20:32,384
Speaker 1: few rap, you know what I mean. So I had

447
00:20:32,384 --> 00:20:35,104
Speaker 1: the whole soul, so I can understand. I was born

448
00:20:35,184 --> 00:20:37,864
Speaker 1: and was around yeah see yeah, no, I was. I'm

449
00:20:37,864 --> 00:20:41,224
Speaker 1: like seven years older than you. So I remember like

450
00:20:41,504 --> 00:20:43,984
Speaker 1: the radio and being like I said hip hop and

451
00:20:43,984 --> 00:20:47,184
Speaker 1: I was like, wait, what did he say? A hip hop?

452
00:20:47,664 --> 00:20:49,263
Speaker 1: Heady to the heavy to hip hop? Is that what

453
00:20:49,304 --> 00:20:52,024
Speaker 1: he that seems different? You know, Like I remember that

454
00:20:52,104 --> 00:20:54,704
Speaker 1: moment when that was like a like a like a

455
00:20:54,744 --> 00:20:58,664
Speaker 1: sea change, and I remember like, oh, Curtis Plow was

456
00:20:58,704 --> 00:21:01,944
Speaker 1: fun and run DMC is fun. And then slowly but

457
00:21:02,024 --> 00:21:04,584
Speaker 1: surely I was, I was. I was thinking about this

458
00:21:04,584 --> 00:21:06,144
Speaker 1: as I was going to talk to you, Like I

459
00:21:06,224 --> 00:21:09,624
Speaker 1: remember when rap was a fad, and when rap was

460
00:21:09,664 --> 00:21:12,384
Speaker 1: like rap is for for musicians who don't know how

461
00:21:12,384 --> 00:21:14,784
Speaker 1: to sing. That was a famous Like a lot of

462
00:21:14,824 --> 00:21:19,224
Speaker 1: people still feel that way. Sure, I think they're probably

463
00:21:19,264 --> 00:21:22,744
Speaker 1: they're they're not. They're not They're not at either party.

464
00:21:22,624 --> 00:21:28,584
Speaker 1: They're the manisphere. But like, so what, so talk about

465
00:21:28,584 --> 00:21:30,624
Speaker 1: your version of what you when you grew up.

466
00:21:30,864 --> 00:21:33,464
Speaker 4: So the first rap song I ever heard in my life,

467
00:21:34,544 --> 00:21:37,704
Speaker 4: I got in the car with my mom and she

468
00:21:37,864 --> 00:21:43,624
Speaker 4: was playing easy so I had to I couldn't have

469
00:21:43,624 --> 00:21:46,024
Speaker 4: been older than eight. That was seven or eight years ye,

470
00:21:46,304 --> 00:21:50,024
Speaker 4: that's late eighties. Yeah, and I guess I must have

471
00:21:50,104 --> 00:21:52,824
Speaker 4: heard some rap, but like, this is the first time

472
00:21:52,904 --> 00:21:57,064
Speaker 4: I remember like listening to what a rapper was saying

473
00:21:57,464 --> 00:22:00,384
Speaker 4: and I was so confused, Yeah, because it was like

474
00:22:00,664 --> 00:22:01,944
Speaker 4: he's saying these words, am.

475
00:22:01,864 --> 00:22:03,944
Speaker 1: I supposed to be hearing these words, Why is my

476
00:22:03,984 --> 00:22:04,864
Speaker 1: mother playing this?

477
00:22:04,904 --> 00:22:05,704
Speaker 2: Is this a test?

478
00:22:06,104 --> 00:22:09,504
Speaker 4: Like, I no no way to wrap my head around it.

479
00:22:09,544 --> 00:22:13,904
Speaker 4: And he sounded so interesting to me. He sounded like

480
00:22:13,904 --> 00:22:18,624
Speaker 4: a little cartoon character talking about doing violent crimes. It

481
00:22:18,704 --> 00:22:23,064
Speaker 4: really was something and the theater of the mind that

482
00:22:23,184 --> 00:22:26,624
Speaker 4: started happening. I was like, Wow, this is really something else.

483
00:22:26,664 --> 00:22:27,104
Speaker 1: And then.

484
00:22:28,504 --> 00:22:35,064
Speaker 4: I have an older step sibling who was four or

485
00:22:35,064 --> 00:22:38,384
Speaker 4: five years older than me but a huge hip hop head,

486
00:22:39,184 --> 00:22:44,064
Speaker 4: so coming and spending summers with her, coming to visit.

487
00:22:44,104 --> 00:22:49,064
Speaker 4: My dad just just had every tape you could think of,

488
00:22:50,184 --> 00:22:50,984
Speaker 4: had everything.

489
00:22:51,064 --> 00:22:56,304
Speaker 1: And so this is eighty seven, eighty eight, I mean

490
00:22:56,304 --> 00:22:59,464
Speaker 1: this is still like there's still debate about is rap

491
00:22:59,464 --> 00:23:01,224
Speaker 1: a real thing? What we're like ello cool j.

492
00:23:02,104 --> 00:23:06,784
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean we're into slick Rick, Rockham, Big Daddy Kane,

493
00:23:07,584 --> 00:23:09,744
Speaker 4: Like that's the stuff that's really popping at the time.

494
00:23:09,904 --> 00:23:14,504
Speaker 4: You know, bismarcky is uh is big, and n w

495
00:23:14,544 --> 00:23:18,624
Speaker 4: A is huge public enemy. So like that's the world

496
00:23:18,664 --> 00:23:21,344
Speaker 4: around me. And I found a lot of it really scary.

497
00:23:21,984 --> 00:23:24,744
Speaker 4: Like I like slick Rick, I like Kwame, you know,

498
00:23:25,264 --> 00:23:26,104
Speaker 4: like that was cute.

499
00:23:26,184 --> 00:23:28,104
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like I liked the little.

500
00:23:27,864 --> 00:23:30,624
Speaker 4: Story raps and all that stuff, but even slick Rick,

501
00:23:30,704 --> 00:23:35,224
Speaker 4: slick Rick used to say some disgusting things grabs with

502
00:23:35,344 --> 00:23:40,184
Speaker 4: spears and Indian drums. What what to put that visual

503
00:23:40,224 --> 00:23:41,024
Speaker 4: in my mind?

504
00:23:41,504 --> 00:23:43,104
Speaker 2: I was not years old.

505
00:23:43,424 --> 00:23:43,744
Speaker 1: God.

506
00:23:44,584 --> 00:23:46,344
Speaker 2: The one thing I know from that story is we

507
00:23:46,384 --> 00:23:48,304
Speaker 2: had different momsh.

508
00:23:47,704 --> 00:23:50,064
Speaker 4: Yeah, I did not have I had a very different

509
00:23:50,144 --> 00:23:51,584
Speaker 4: type of mom than most people.

510
00:23:51,784 --> 00:23:52,864
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure.

511
00:23:53,224 --> 00:23:58,824
Speaker 1: And when she's playing easy in the car, is she like, oh,

512
00:23:58,944 --> 00:24:01,303
Speaker 1: is there any awareness in her mind? Is like this

513
00:24:01,424 --> 00:24:03,744
Speaker 1: he shouldn't be hearing this and none, just just I

514
00:24:03,784 --> 00:24:05,184
Speaker 1: want to hear this song. I want to hear the

515
00:24:05,224 --> 00:24:08,904
Speaker 1: song in the Nissan. Yeah. And if he needs to

516
00:24:08,944 --> 00:24:12,224
Speaker 1: go to school, so these things will happen simultaneous, yes,

517
00:24:12,264 --> 00:24:13,704
Speaker 1: without Nia's second thought.

518
00:24:13,784 --> 00:24:15,344
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, okay.

519
00:24:15,904 --> 00:24:19,904
Speaker 1: So that's interesting because again, sort of just to talk

520
00:24:19,944 --> 00:24:25,064
Speaker 1: about By the time NWA comes around, I'm very clear

521
00:24:25,064 --> 00:24:27,584
Speaker 1: that like, I like rap music, but it's not speaking

522
00:24:27,624 --> 00:24:30,224
Speaker 1: to me. I'm not I don't have anything against it,

523
00:24:30,304 --> 00:24:32,504
Speaker 1: especially because I feel like, and I would love to

524
00:24:32,504 --> 00:24:33,904
Speaker 1: hear your talk about this because you were still young.

525
00:24:33,944 --> 00:24:35,304
Speaker 2: But I'm sure you've looked back in this time.

526
00:24:35,664 --> 00:24:39,984
Speaker 1: I remember seeing arrested development and concert like I remember

527
00:24:40,184 --> 00:24:42,984
Speaker 1: diggable planets to be like, oh I like this this version,

528
00:24:43,544 --> 00:24:46,544
Speaker 1: and then at some point the Red Company said that's

529
00:24:46,624 --> 00:24:49,664
Speaker 1: enough of that. Well I think about that a lot.

530
00:24:50,064 --> 00:24:51,984
Speaker 1: Like so I felt like there was rap that I

531
00:24:52,024 --> 00:24:54,344
Speaker 1: was responding to, and the and the main streets like

532
00:24:54,344 --> 00:24:54,904
Speaker 1: we don't like the.

533
00:24:54,864 --> 00:24:56,024
Speaker 2: Fact that come out like this wrap.

534
00:24:56,184 --> 00:24:58,944
Speaker 1: No, that's not what happened. It wasn't okay, everything's not

535
00:24:59,024 --> 00:24:59,384
Speaker 1: about you.

536
00:24:59,664 --> 00:25:00,944
Speaker 2: It was a very personal attack.

537
00:25:02,144 --> 00:25:05,904
Speaker 4: But so I had that awakening when I first heard

538
00:25:06,064 --> 00:25:08,424
Speaker 4: you know, Tribe, Yeah, I mean know like Dita Apple

539
00:25:08,424 --> 00:25:10,984
Speaker 4: Bom was big. Seeing a video for Buddy from Day last,

540
00:25:11,104 --> 00:25:13,744
Speaker 4: so that was huge. It's like all of these.

541
00:25:15,144 --> 00:25:21,263
Speaker 1: Afrocentric clothing wearing people. It seemed to be really like

542
00:25:21,344 --> 00:25:26,744
Speaker 1: getting along and having fun and quirky, yeah, like weird,

543
00:25:26,824 --> 00:25:29,664
Speaker 1: and they were putting that forward in a way that

544
00:25:29,904 --> 00:25:32,504
Speaker 1: like when I first heard that music and saw that

545
00:25:32,824 --> 00:25:35,704
Speaker 1: esthetic in that atmosphere, that was the first time I

546
00:25:35,704 --> 00:25:37,944
Speaker 1: felt like I had a seat at the table. So

547
00:25:38,544 --> 00:25:42,864
Speaker 1: by the time I'm getting into rap as a as

548
00:25:42,864 --> 00:25:45,064
Speaker 1: a teenager, I feel like I'm fruit from that tree.

549
00:25:45,064 --> 00:25:46,544
Speaker 1: I'm fruit from the native tongue's tree.

550
00:25:46,664 --> 00:25:50,944
Speaker 4: So tried Daylight. Leaders of the New school like that

551
00:25:51,024 --> 00:25:55,304
Speaker 4: whole energy. And so what ended up happening, though, is

552
00:25:55,344 --> 00:25:59,584
Speaker 4: that those of us who were over there, and especially

553
00:25:59,624 --> 00:26:04,144
Speaker 4: those of us who like me, discovered wrap and breaking

554
00:26:04,184 --> 00:26:09,464
Speaker 4: graffiti DJ, and around the time when we were laid

555
00:26:09,504 --> 00:26:13,224
Speaker 4: into our high school years, a thing called the Internet happened.

556
00:26:13,744 --> 00:26:14,304
Speaker 1: And.

557
00:26:15,744 --> 00:26:19,504
Speaker 4: There became yeah, you got it, it's very important, it's

558
00:26:19,584 --> 00:26:26,384
Speaker 4: very important. There became this this easy way to get music.

559
00:26:27,144 --> 00:26:29,263
Speaker 4: I remember we were crate diggers. We used to go

560
00:26:29,304 --> 00:26:31,624
Speaker 4: to the dusty record shops and try to find the

561
00:26:31,664 --> 00:26:35,224
Speaker 4: second hand But all of a sudden, wait a minute,

562
00:26:35,904 --> 00:26:39,064
Speaker 4: you mean there's this application I can put on And

563
00:26:39,104 --> 00:26:41,424
Speaker 4: I don't have a personal computer, but I know one guy,

564
00:26:41,664 --> 00:26:45,263
Speaker 4: one guy in the dorn does. Under one guy, he

565
00:26:45,424 --> 00:26:49,024
Speaker 4: wasn't afraid to have his hard drive compromise with all

566
00:26:49,024 --> 00:26:55,783
Speaker 4: of this potentially virus filled music. So the reason that

567
00:26:55,824 --> 00:26:58,824
Speaker 4: there used to beat music that we liked was that

568
00:26:59,024 --> 00:27:03,144
Speaker 4: there were enough of us buying that music that the

569
00:27:03,224 --> 00:27:05,664
Speaker 4: major labels were able to put a line in the

570
00:27:05,704 --> 00:27:11,303
Speaker 4: budget to make this alternative bohemian rap music and give

571
00:27:11,384 --> 00:27:13,344
Speaker 4: them big videos and put them in Tower Records next

572
00:27:13,384 --> 00:27:15,624
Speaker 4: to everything else. But we were the first ones to

573
00:27:15,624 --> 00:27:19,984
Speaker 4: stop buying and when we stopped buying it, that whole

574
00:27:20,064 --> 00:27:23,543
Speaker 4: thing collapse and it no longer it was no longer

575
00:27:24,224 --> 00:27:27,824
Speaker 4: a good idea for the record labels to have that

576
00:27:28,344 --> 00:27:30,184
Speaker 4: because we weren't paying for it.

577
00:27:30,664 --> 00:27:32,864
Speaker 1: I mean, I've heard those stories about like about like

578
00:27:32,904 --> 00:27:36,464
Speaker 1: trib Call Quests first album went platinum on the streets

579
00:27:36,864 --> 00:27:40,744
Speaker 1: but not in the record stores, like leg yeah, yeah,

580
00:27:41,064 --> 00:27:43,864
Speaker 1: I guess, yeah, there was a legacy of that anyway. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

581
00:27:43,904 --> 00:27:47,184
Speaker 1: that there was like everybody had that album, but not

582
00:27:47,264 --> 00:27:49,464
Speaker 1: everybody got it from going to the record store. You

583
00:27:49,464 --> 00:27:49,664
Speaker 1: know what.

584
00:27:49,704 --> 00:27:51,624
Speaker 4: That makes a lot of sense. And again, you know,

585
00:27:51,664 --> 00:27:55,664
Speaker 4: when you're speaking to a particular population that is not

586
00:27:55,744 --> 00:27:57,824
Speaker 4: always the best about following the rules.

587
00:27:58,664 --> 00:28:01,744
Speaker 1: Well also has been like it's like feels like the

588
00:28:01,784 --> 00:28:04,184
Speaker 1: rules aren't for them anyway, you know.

589
00:28:04,224 --> 00:28:05,904
Speaker 4: But that's sort of how we don't understand our own

590
00:28:05,904 --> 00:28:09,543
Speaker 4: place in the economy by following that logic that way.

591
00:28:09,584 --> 00:28:12,104
Speaker 4: And I you know, and I'm it's guilty as anyone else.

592
00:28:12,344 --> 00:28:15,384
Speaker 4: It's just that when I got into the business of it,

593
00:28:16,144 --> 00:28:19,184
Speaker 4: Oh now I can kind of see it, like, oh right,

594
00:28:19,464 --> 00:28:23,504
Speaker 4: like if me and my friends had kept paying for

595
00:28:23,584 --> 00:28:26,024
Speaker 4: those you know, the Daylight sol albums that came out

596
00:28:26,064 --> 00:28:28,664
Speaker 4: after stakes was high, then maybe we're in a different place.

597
00:28:28,904 --> 00:28:32,504
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm so loath to blame us.

598
00:28:35,264 --> 00:28:37,904
Speaker 4: I just you know, I the way that my mind

599
00:28:38,184 --> 00:28:42,384
Speaker 4: is operating lately is that most of the boogeymen are

600
00:28:42,504 --> 00:28:45,704
Speaker 4: just you know, capitalism and a cheap Scooby Doo villain suit. Yes,

601
00:28:45,864 --> 00:28:47,984
Speaker 4: so so you know, looking at it through that lens,

602
00:28:47,984 --> 00:28:51,624
Speaker 4: it's like, oh, yeah, okay, our money comes out, we

603
00:28:51,744 --> 00:28:52,664
Speaker 4: stop having the thing.

604
00:28:52,864 --> 00:28:55,304
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, no, it is. I agree,

605
00:28:55,344 --> 00:28:58,384
Speaker 1: that's how the ultimate villain. I used that with United Shades, like,

606
00:28:58,384 --> 00:29:01,584
Speaker 1: no matter what issue we were covering, racism, it just

607
00:29:01,584 --> 00:29:05,064
Speaker 1: just rights, immigration, rights at the border. The ultimate villain

608
00:29:05,064 --> 00:29:05,584
Speaker 1: was capitalist.

609
00:29:05,664 --> 00:29:07,184
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was American capitalist usually.

610
00:29:07,424 --> 00:29:10,424
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. So you said, like you said, you didn't

611
00:29:10,424 --> 00:29:11,984
Speaker 1: grow up on Sally want to be a rapper. But

612
00:29:12,024 --> 00:29:13,664
Speaker 1: then you're like hanging out in the scene and be like,

613
00:29:13,704 --> 00:29:15,424
Speaker 1: oh I think I could actually be a do something

614
00:29:15,464 --> 00:29:18,784
Speaker 1: in the scene and creating the scene. Are you always

615
00:29:18,824 --> 00:29:19,424
Speaker 1: headed down?

616
00:29:20,504 --> 00:29:22,304
Speaker 2: You know? And I please, I want to know what

617
00:29:22,384 --> 00:29:23,664
Speaker 2: you call what you do?

618
00:29:24,304 --> 00:29:26,824
Speaker 1: You know, I called it art wrap in twenty ten

619
00:29:27,024 --> 00:29:29,344
Speaker 1: and I still get asked about that all the time.

620
00:29:29,424 --> 00:29:32,224
Speaker 1: It was in the it's in the it's in the

621
00:29:32,264 --> 00:29:34,864
Speaker 1: DOSSI And I was like, is that really? I mean,

622
00:29:35,584 --> 00:29:37,584
Speaker 1: I don't know, sure, baby, but I know I didn't

623
00:29:37,584 --> 00:29:38,784
Speaker 1: say it for it. I would ask you.

624
00:29:38,824 --> 00:29:42,824
Speaker 4: I know, my first album it's called Unapologetic art Rap.

625
00:29:43,224 --> 00:29:44,224
Speaker 1: So you did to yourself?

626
00:29:44,264 --> 00:29:46,904
Speaker 2: I did? I did you put it in the system?

627
00:29:46,984 --> 00:29:47,384
Speaker 1: I did?

628
00:29:47,584 --> 00:29:50,064
Speaker 4: But you know that was a different time. It felt

629
00:29:50,144 --> 00:29:52,344
Speaker 4: necessary to say something like that at that time.

630
00:29:52,424 --> 00:29:54,944
Speaker 1: Well sure, it's like it's yeah, it's like the idea

631
00:29:54,944 --> 00:29:56,784
Speaker 1: of like there's a time where I was calling myself

632
00:29:56,824 --> 00:30:00,784
Speaker 1: a blurred every ten minutes. You actually around time totally bias.

633
00:30:00,824 --> 00:30:02,264
Speaker 1: When somebody called me a blurred, I was like, oh,

634
00:30:02,304 --> 00:30:04,664
Speaker 1: is that what I am? Right, I'm glad there's a

635
00:30:04,784 --> 00:30:05,144
Speaker 1: name for it.

636
00:30:05,344 --> 00:30:10,024
Speaker 4: Right before, there are important. I feel like they're important

637
00:30:10,064 --> 00:30:13,464
Speaker 4: for the marketplace, important to have distinctions. So you know,

638
00:30:13,704 --> 00:30:18,504
Speaker 4: I went with that because I feel like, you know.

639
00:30:18,744 --> 00:30:22,264
Speaker 1: Rockets to have all these different sub genres. I really

640
00:30:22,464 --> 00:30:26,504
Speaker 1: agree with what you're saying, Like, yeah, like that it

641
00:30:26,544 --> 00:30:29,384
Speaker 1: is helpful to the marketplace, and it's helpful to the consumer.

642
00:30:29,424 --> 00:30:30,304
Speaker 1: You know, what am I going to?

643
00:30:30,584 --> 00:30:32,704
Speaker 2: What am I? Where do I look for it? Where's

644
00:30:32,744 --> 00:30:33,264
Speaker 2: my section?

645
00:30:33,464 --> 00:30:35,384
Speaker 1: Right? Like the people like me and you who would

646
00:30:35,384 --> 00:30:37,744
Speaker 1: have been looking for the Diggaboo Planets record, Like it

647
00:30:37,744 --> 00:30:42,984
Speaker 1: would be nice if there was a separate Bend Nerds.

648
00:30:46,824 --> 00:30:51,144
Speaker 4: Now, I feel like the distinction, like Indy seems cool

649
00:30:51,784 --> 00:30:56,744
Speaker 4: because Indye speaks to both the economics of it and my.

650
00:30:58,824 --> 00:31:01,544
Speaker 1: The fact I don't have to answer to anybody really creatively.

651
00:31:01,584 --> 00:31:03,824
Speaker 1: I feel like, so Indy feels good.

652
00:31:03,864 --> 00:31:07,064
Speaker 4: It doesn't feel quite specific enough, yeah, but it feels

653
00:31:07,064 --> 00:31:07,824
Speaker 4: like it's on the way.

654
00:31:08,064 --> 00:31:09,824
Speaker 1: Yeah, It's like I mean, it's sort of in that

655
00:31:09,904 --> 00:31:13,144
Speaker 1: sense like punk rock covers a lot of different sort

656
00:31:13,144 --> 00:31:16,824
Speaker 1: of like sounds in that genre of music that you

657
00:31:16,824 --> 00:31:18,984
Speaker 1: can get the clash which has some very like pop

658
00:31:19,104 --> 00:31:22,344
Speaker 1: forward music, but the ethos is punk.

659
00:31:22,784 --> 00:31:22,984
Speaker 2: Yeah.

660
00:31:23,104 --> 00:31:25,824
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I get that indie rap. So were you

661
00:31:25,864 --> 00:31:29,104
Speaker 1: always on an indie rap path or was there are

662
00:31:29,104 --> 00:31:32,144
Speaker 1: there polaroids of you, like you know.

663
00:31:33,784 --> 00:31:34,384
Speaker 2: Where you were?

664
00:31:34,424 --> 00:31:39,224
Speaker 1: Like, No, I never had a doukie rope like where

665
00:31:39,264 --> 00:31:43,064
Speaker 1: you're like, this is what we do? You know? No, man,

666
00:31:43,744 --> 00:31:45,184
Speaker 1: you were always in the indie rap path. I mean

667
00:31:45,224 --> 00:31:49,464
Speaker 1: when when we say you know about you or about me,

668
00:31:49,544 --> 00:31:51,984
Speaker 1: that I always knew I was over there, Like that's

669
00:31:52,064 --> 00:31:54,744
Speaker 1: really what I mean, Like there was never a thought

670
00:31:54,744 --> 00:31:58,904
Speaker 1: in my mind of doing anything even close to mainstream.

671
00:31:59,384 --> 00:32:05,944
Speaker 1: It just has never been interesting to me, and I

672
00:32:05,984 --> 00:32:08,584
Speaker 1: don't I don't think I'm wired in a way where

673
00:32:08,664 --> 00:32:09,264
Speaker 1: i'd be.

674
00:32:09,224 --> 00:32:12,344
Speaker 4: Even if I really tried really hard, I think it

675
00:32:12,744 --> 00:32:16,344
Speaker 4: would be difficult for me to make a mass market product.

676
00:32:16,744 --> 00:32:21,784
Speaker 1: That's that's that's that's hard. It's like, you could give

677
00:32:21,824 --> 00:32:23,944
Speaker 1: me the pieces to make a mask mark you get

678
00:32:24,064 --> 00:32:26,144
Speaker 1: like it's like legos. You could give me the pieces,

679
00:32:26,344 --> 00:32:28,784
Speaker 1: you give me instructions. It's not gonna look like gonna

680
00:32:28,784 --> 00:32:29,264
Speaker 1: look like that.

681
00:32:29,384 --> 00:32:31,544
Speaker 4: I'm gonna look the gonna be on the bottom, you

682
00:32:31,584 --> 00:32:33,344
Speaker 4: know what I'm saying, It's gonna have some jelly smeared

683
00:32:33,344 --> 00:32:33,864
Speaker 4: on it or something.

684
00:32:34,104 --> 00:32:34,704
Speaker 2: It's not.

685
00:32:34,904 --> 00:32:38,184
Speaker 1: It's just not gonna and and accepting that, I think,

686
00:32:38,304 --> 00:32:41,384
Speaker 1: especially when you're there's something scared about, especially a black person,

687
00:32:41,424 --> 00:32:43,384
Speaker 1: when you accept that, cause it's like you're just getting in,

688
00:32:43,384 --> 00:32:46,104
Speaker 1: You're putting yourself in a smaller and smaller corner that

689
00:32:46,784 --> 00:32:50,304
Speaker 1: you know as a white person. Oh you're the quirky

690
00:32:50,344 --> 00:32:51,864
Speaker 1: white you know what I mean. There's just like, oh,

691
00:32:51,904 --> 00:32:53,824
Speaker 1: that's a whole we can market to that, you know

692
00:32:53,824 --> 00:32:55,704
Speaker 1: what I mean? Like like there's a whole there's a

693
00:32:55,704 --> 00:32:59,144
Speaker 1: whole genre like what you're Wes Anderson, right, oh.

694
00:32:59,384 --> 00:33:02,344
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, well we just got out here, you know,

695
00:33:02,424 --> 00:33:04,744
Speaker 2: over here with that. But it was a black person.

696
00:33:05,024 --> 00:33:06,024
Speaker 2: Especially when I was coming up.

697
00:33:06,024 --> 00:33:08,464
Speaker 1: I always say that the thing that you had, which

698
00:33:08,464 --> 00:33:11,864
Speaker 1: I'm gonna look into the internet, I was very aware that, like,

699
00:33:11,984 --> 00:33:14,744
Speaker 1: if I had only had the Internet, I thought I

700
00:33:14,784 --> 00:33:16,104
Speaker 1: was the only one on the planet.

701
00:33:16,864 --> 00:33:19,104
Speaker 2: I thought I was the like I would go to

702
00:33:19,184 --> 00:33:19,824
Speaker 2: And we've talked.

703
00:33:19,624 --> 00:33:22,064
Speaker 1: About this, because you came to the Fishbone show that

704
00:33:22,144 --> 00:33:25,264
Speaker 1: I got to moderate the thing, and I would know

705
00:33:25,304 --> 00:33:28,064
Speaker 1: the Fishbone concert there'd be more black people on stage

706
00:33:28,744 --> 00:33:30,824
Speaker 1: than in the in the in the play, in the theater,

707
00:33:31,224 --> 00:33:33,224
Speaker 1: and you'd see another black guy cross the room and

708
00:33:33,264 --> 00:33:34,744
Speaker 1: there'd be that moment and I wonder if you've had

709
00:33:34,744 --> 00:33:36,864
Speaker 1: this where you're like, is he my best friend? Or

710
00:33:36,904 --> 00:33:40,904
Speaker 1: do I have to fight it? You know what's funny.

711
00:33:41,184 --> 00:33:43,344
Speaker 1: You know my favorite band is they might be giants?

712
00:33:43,664 --> 00:33:45,904
Speaker 2: Yes, you made that clear at the show, the Clippic Show.

713
00:33:45,984 --> 00:33:49,744
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh god, I did. I thought that was great.

714
00:33:49,864 --> 00:33:52,104
Speaker 1: Oh man, it was for for the people who are

715
00:33:52,104 --> 00:33:54,464
Speaker 1: watching this every you said for somehow you had that

716
00:33:54,504 --> 00:33:57,024
Speaker 1: they might be giants stuck in your head somehow, I

717
00:33:57,024 --> 00:34:00,744
Speaker 1: can't remember how we got to this moment, came out

718
00:34:00,744 --> 00:34:03,424
Speaker 1: and said, well, this is this is what happened because

719
00:34:03,904 --> 00:34:07,784
Speaker 1: every show on that tour, and this was legitimate. I

720
00:34:07,824 --> 00:34:10,504
Speaker 1: had created a set, but I could not decide on

721
00:34:10,544 --> 00:34:13,344
Speaker 1: the first song. So I was letting the crowd in

722
00:34:13,424 --> 00:34:15,743
Speaker 1: each show just like, you know, yell something you like

723
00:34:15,784 --> 00:34:17,663
Speaker 1: that I do, and I might do that as my

724
00:34:17,704 --> 00:34:20,743
Speaker 1: first song. And that night it.

725
00:34:20,703 --> 00:34:23,064
Speaker 4: Went on a little too long with people sort of

726
00:34:23,064 --> 00:34:24,743
Speaker 4: shouting out things that I couldn't quite hear.

727
00:34:24,824 --> 00:34:27,504
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then somebody said saying they might be giants,

728
00:34:27,743 --> 00:34:29,584
Speaker 1: and I was like, wait a minute, I can do that.

729
00:34:32,384 --> 00:34:34,743
Speaker 1: I mean, it was I sort of knew that it

730
00:34:34,783 --> 00:34:37,064
Speaker 1: wasn't a bit, but I felt like he should really

731
00:34:37,143 --> 00:34:39,263
Speaker 1: do that. He should really like, yeah, there's a day

732
00:34:39,344 --> 00:34:41,903
Speaker 1: might be giants cover album in you? Oh God? Yes,

733
00:34:42,183 --> 00:34:44,143
Speaker 1: that like that? To me, it was like and it

734
00:34:44,223 --> 00:34:46,423
Speaker 1: was so satisfying to me because they might look they

735
00:34:46,504 --> 00:34:48,623
Speaker 1: might be giants, great, but I feel like it's like

736
00:34:49,783 --> 00:34:52,024
Speaker 1: my like, there's things like that that are that it's

737
00:34:52,064 --> 00:34:55,024
Speaker 1: ostensibly to some people are super white, but I'm like, no,

738
00:34:55,183 --> 00:34:58,223
Speaker 1: I'm that's mine too. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, Yeah.

739
00:34:58,223 --> 00:35:00,504
Speaker 4: But I've had that experience at they might be giant

740
00:35:00,544 --> 00:35:02,343
Speaker 4: shows where I see another black person. I feel like

741
00:35:02,344 --> 00:35:06,384
Speaker 4: I've had both sides of that spectrum, both like, Hey,

742
00:35:06,663 --> 00:35:11,303
Speaker 4: that's dope and the others like if.

743
00:35:11,223 --> 00:35:13,623
Speaker 1: We're allowed to be close to each other, does the

744
00:35:13,703 --> 00:35:17,024
Speaker 1: venue explode? So the two indie black guys get too

745
00:35:17,024 --> 00:35:19,143
Speaker 1: close to each other. I mean there's literally a black guy.

746
00:35:19,424 --> 00:35:23,504
Speaker 1: There's Billy Tuggle, who I've never had a conversation with

747
00:35:23,623 --> 00:35:26,263
Speaker 1: longer than like ten minutes, and he's just a black guy.

748
00:35:26,344 --> 00:35:28,104
Speaker 1: Used to see it all the Fishbonel Living Color shows

749
00:35:28,104 --> 00:35:30,743
Speaker 1: in Chicago, and we're like he just commented on an

750
00:35:30,743 --> 00:35:33,944
Speaker 1: Instagram post I had recently. I was like, ah, like

751
00:35:34,223 --> 00:35:36,183
Speaker 1: I've never had a long conversation with the guy because

752
00:35:36,223 --> 00:35:38,543
Speaker 1: at the time when I would see him, I would be.

753
00:35:38,464 --> 00:35:40,064
Speaker 2: Like, that guy's here again.

754
00:35:40,223 --> 00:35:42,584
Speaker 1: Yeah, I hope he's okay. Hope he's okay that I'm

755
00:35:42,663 --> 00:35:45,504
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, instead of like if the

756
00:35:45,504 --> 00:35:49,544
Speaker 1: internet existed, we would have found each other on the internet. Hey,

757
00:35:49,584 --> 00:35:52,344
Speaker 1: who here in Chicago's going to see Living Color tonight

758
00:35:52,584 --> 00:35:54,984
Speaker 1: and I am, and we would have gone together and

759
00:35:54,984 --> 00:35:57,143
Speaker 1: we would have hung out together. It's so cute. I know,

760
00:35:57,223 --> 00:36:02,183
Speaker 1: it's just so I do envy you Internet negroes, you

761
00:36:02,303 --> 00:36:08,064
Speaker 1: Internet al negroes. I really my altness was grounded in like,

762
00:36:08,504 --> 00:36:14,424
Speaker 1: you know, giant hip hop crew meetings in Chicago, and

763
00:36:14,504 --> 00:36:17,343
Speaker 1: I mean big ones, like hundreds of people, hundreds of

764
00:36:17,663 --> 00:36:19,303
Speaker 1: hundreds for a meeting about hip hop.

765
00:36:19,504 --> 00:36:21,783
Speaker 4: Well, okay, because we had cruise that you know, they

766
00:36:21,824 --> 00:36:25,183
Speaker 4: were basically like legal gangs, like like the Graffiti Cruise

767
00:36:25,223 --> 00:36:28,263
Speaker 4: in Chicago, the hip hop Cruise, and sometimes they group.

768
00:36:28,344 --> 00:36:30,464
Speaker 4: There would be all city hip hop meetings and we

769
00:36:30,504 --> 00:36:33,263
Speaker 4: would descend on the hair Washington Library, of course, and

770
00:36:33,303 --> 00:36:34,544
Speaker 4: there would be hundreds of us.

771
00:36:34,663 --> 00:36:36,623
Speaker 2: Wow.

772
00:36:53,504 --> 00:36:55,903
Speaker 1: So I guess my question is where did if your

773
00:36:55,944 --> 00:37:01,104
Speaker 1: mom is playing uh easy E in the car, like,

774
00:37:01,143 --> 00:37:04,464
Speaker 1: I feel like I can trace my alternative blackness to

775
00:37:04,544 --> 00:37:09,104
Speaker 1: where it started from. I'm then only child, My mommus

776
00:37:09,143 --> 00:37:11,544
Speaker 1: take me around, didn't spend didn't always want babysitter. So

777
00:37:11,544 --> 00:37:13,904
Speaker 1: I was running adults a lot, and I got to

778
00:37:13,904 --> 00:37:15,343
Speaker 1: because when we talk, I spent a lot of time

779
00:37:15,344 --> 00:37:17,423
Speaker 1: by myself sort of creating my own version of what

780
00:37:17,584 --> 00:37:20,383
Speaker 1: culture was same here in my room, and then I'd

781
00:37:20,384 --> 00:37:22,944
Speaker 1: go outside and be like that we're not that's not

782
00:37:23,024 --> 00:37:24,783
Speaker 1: we're not all doing Oh okay, I'll go I'll just

783
00:37:24,864 --> 00:37:27,663
Speaker 1: go back in my room. Where does your so, Yeah,

784
00:37:27,703 --> 00:37:29,663
Speaker 1: give me your the blueprint of how you got to

785
00:37:29,703 --> 00:37:33,104
Speaker 1: be so South Side of Chicago late eighties, early nineties.

786
00:37:33,743 --> 00:37:37,143
Speaker 4: It is not nice outside. It is not nice outside.

787
00:37:37,183 --> 00:37:40,464
Speaker 4: And because my mom was living in life, she was

788
00:37:40,504 --> 00:37:44,464
Speaker 4: living my grandparents raised me and my sister.

789
00:37:44,663 --> 00:37:46,503
Speaker 1: Oh that will make you all if you're being raised

790
00:37:46,504 --> 00:37:48,424
Speaker 1: by people who are a lot of your grandparents.

791
00:37:48,504 --> 00:37:53,783
Speaker 4: And and a lot of that time was spent in

792
00:37:53,824 --> 00:37:57,544
Speaker 4: front of the television. Yeah, so latch key kid in

793
00:37:57,544 --> 00:38:00,263
Speaker 4: front of the TV. I wasn't allowed to go outside

794
00:38:00,263 --> 00:38:02,784
Speaker 4: a lot, like literally because it was shooting outside.

795
00:38:03,024 --> 00:38:05,423
Speaker 1: It's not like they're not mad, They're like, oh good,

796
00:38:05,424 --> 00:38:06,463
Speaker 1: he's watching TV all day.

797
00:38:06,623 --> 00:38:11,664
Speaker 4: Yeah, we know it has something to do exactly. And

798
00:38:11,824 --> 00:38:16,104
Speaker 4: we had cable, which was a rare ny We had cable,

799
00:38:16,263 --> 00:38:20,024
Speaker 4: so so a lot a lot of my alt identity,

800
00:38:20,263 --> 00:38:23,183
Speaker 4: a lot of a lot of the original information that

801
00:38:23,384 --> 00:38:32,384
Speaker 4: isolated me socially was watching like hours and hours of MTV. Gosh,

802
00:38:32,424 --> 00:38:34,544
Speaker 4: hours and hours of like the Comedy Channel.

803
00:38:34,703 --> 00:38:37,464
Speaker 1: Oh yeah before Comedy Central, Comedy Central.

804
00:38:38,504 --> 00:38:40,783
Speaker 4: Like I was just sort of kid that you know,

805
00:38:40,864 --> 00:38:45,663
Speaker 4: once cartoons were because cartoons were such a uh some

806
00:38:45,944 --> 00:38:47,223
Speaker 4: small segment of programming.

807
00:38:47,263 --> 00:38:49,183
Speaker 2: And back then it was like they start at this

808
00:38:49,263 --> 00:38:50,303
Speaker 2: time and they end at this time.

809
00:38:50,344 --> 00:38:53,504
Speaker 1: And I was I had asthma real bad too. We

810
00:38:53,584 --> 00:38:56,504
Speaker 1: both had. Okay, it's maybe asthma's the secret. Maybe asthma.

811
00:38:56,824 --> 00:38:58,463
Speaker 1: So you're not you're not at the you're not at

812
00:38:58,464 --> 00:39:02,783
Speaker 1: the at the court learning how to dunk. You're the

813
00:39:02,824 --> 00:39:04,383
Speaker 1: kid who And back then, if you put out an

814
00:39:04,384 --> 00:39:07,663
Speaker 1: asthma hailer, everybody would just like nobody knew what they were.

815
00:39:07,864 --> 00:39:10,024
Speaker 1: I mean, so many kids I was around had asthma.

816
00:39:10,143 --> 00:39:12,703
Speaker 1: Well black kids, yeah, exactly. It's one of our hidden

817
00:39:12,783 --> 00:39:14,703
Speaker 1: talents as black people is being born in areas that

818
00:39:14,743 --> 00:39:15,264
Speaker 1: give you asthma.

819
00:39:15,384 --> 00:39:19,664
Speaker 4: It's terrible, but I you know, I had been hospitalized

820
00:39:19,703 --> 00:39:23,263
Speaker 4: for asthma a few times as a kid. So I

821
00:39:23,303 --> 00:39:27,143
Speaker 4: spent like a lot of time at home, you know,

822
00:39:27,384 --> 00:39:32,024
Speaker 4: on school days, watching TV. And so that's when you

823
00:39:32,064 --> 00:39:35,944
Speaker 4: would see the cartoons end at like nine am, and

824
00:39:35,984 --> 00:39:39,623
Speaker 4: then from like nine am to three something when cartoons

825
00:39:39,623 --> 00:39:43,183
Speaker 4: come back on, I'm looking for anything funny on television.

826
00:39:43,464 --> 00:39:46,743
Speaker 4: So I'm like learning about the world through reruns of

827
00:39:46,783 --> 00:39:49,663
Speaker 4: shows that happened in the seventies earlier in the eighties,

828
00:39:50,024 --> 00:39:52,623
Speaker 4: and like all that stuff is like informing my worldview,

829
00:39:53,143 --> 00:39:55,863
Speaker 4: you know. And I watched a lot of like I

830
00:39:55,904 --> 00:40:00,024
Speaker 4: watched a lot of late eighties and early nineties stand

831
00:40:00,104 --> 00:40:02,903
Speaker 4: up comedy because that was all over cable and you'd

832
00:40:02,904 --> 00:40:06,104
Speaker 4: have like Evening at the Empire and a half hour

833
00:40:06,223 --> 00:40:10,984
Speaker 4: Comedy Our all of that stuff. And so I'm learning

834
00:40:11,584 --> 00:40:17,864
Speaker 4: how the world works through people telling jokes. The comedy

835
00:40:17,904 --> 00:40:20,743
Speaker 4: specials used to come on like HBO and Showtime, like

836
00:40:20,944 --> 00:40:23,743
Speaker 4: all of that stuff. Like you know what, I used

837
00:40:23,743 --> 00:40:30,104
Speaker 4: to love watching Gallagher specials. I mean he loved watching

838
00:40:30,504 --> 00:40:31,784
Speaker 4: a Gallagher special.

839
00:40:32,783 --> 00:40:34,183
Speaker 1: People like this is definitely you have to be a

840
00:40:34,223 --> 00:40:36,064
Speaker 1: certain as there was a time when v H one

841
00:40:36,143 --> 00:40:40,104
Speaker 1: probably showed more Gallagher comedy than they showed music. And

842
00:40:40,104 --> 00:40:43,544
Speaker 1: Gallagher had like I don't know, legitimately, like ten specials,

843
00:40:43,544 --> 00:40:45,703
Speaker 1: a lot of specials. He had a lot of specials.

844
00:40:45,904 --> 00:40:48,784
Speaker 1: And while we know them for ending with the Sledge

845
00:40:48,783 --> 00:40:52,064
Speaker 1: of Maatic, he also was like sort of like a

846
00:40:52,183 --> 00:40:55,504
Speaker 1: bargain basement George Carlin. He was like a word nerd. Yeah,

847
00:40:55,544 --> 00:40:57,464
Speaker 1: he was like this sort of like wordplay and like

848
00:40:57,824 --> 00:41:00,623
Speaker 1: had some sort of like these idiots in Congress had

849
00:41:00,623 --> 00:41:02,064
Speaker 1: a little bit of that.

850
00:41:02,703 --> 00:41:06,024
Speaker 4: I always thought it was fascinating. It was just a

851
00:41:06,104 --> 00:41:11,024
Speaker 4: person giving me this weird old perspective on life and language,

852
00:41:11,303 --> 00:41:12,344
Speaker 4: and yeah.

853
00:41:12,143 --> 00:41:14,783
Speaker 1: I ate all this stuff up. Yeah, okay, gallaghers, I

854
00:41:14,783 --> 00:41:20,544
Speaker 1: think asthma, Asthma and Gallagher. I'll do it to you together,

855
00:41:20,904 --> 00:41:24,584
Speaker 1: old old old people raising older people, raising you asthma

856
00:41:24,584 --> 00:41:28,064
Speaker 1: and Gallagher that I need to we've we've diagnosed the patient.

857
00:41:28,104 --> 00:41:30,704
Speaker 1: That's a special is a special gumbo. Because I definitely

858
00:41:30,743 --> 00:41:34,543
Speaker 1: was like like I like, I very proudly say people

859
00:41:34,544 --> 00:41:36,704
Speaker 1: told me I watched too much TV, but I actually

860
00:41:36,743 --> 00:41:38,863
Speaker 1: turned it into a career, so I knew what I

861
00:41:38,904 --> 00:41:41,464
Speaker 1: was doing. But yes, so that you're taking it all

862
00:41:41,464 --> 00:41:45,183
Speaker 1: that stuff. So so I remember as a young black

863
00:41:45,223 --> 00:41:48,024
Speaker 1: person being shunned by other black people because there's all

864
00:41:48,064 --> 00:41:50,064
Speaker 1: another reason why you're some of us are over there

865
00:41:50,183 --> 00:41:52,024
Speaker 1: is because you try to walk to eereverybody they know

866
00:41:52,104 --> 00:41:54,024
Speaker 1: you're over there, you know what I mean. And I

867
00:41:54,024 --> 00:41:56,104
Speaker 1: remember being sure just because people could black folks in

868
00:41:56,183 --> 00:41:58,024
Speaker 1: Chicago I was in Chicago to at the same time

869
00:41:58,464 --> 00:42:03,863
Speaker 1: could smell that like he's not It was I got

870
00:42:03,864 --> 00:42:07,623
Speaker 1: the they out like us earlier, not for the same reason,

871
00:42:08,344 --> 00:42:10,543
Speaker 1: for the same reasons, but just because it's like you're

872
00:42:10,544 --> 00:42:13,064
Speaker 1: not just I can just smell it on you. You

873
00:42:13,064 --> 00:42:15,464
Speaker 1: weren't like going to Atlanta and stealing people's rap styles.

874
00:42:15,703 --> 00:42:18,864
Speaker 1: No that I'm not. I've never been called a colonizer.

875
00:42:19,143 --> 00:42:23,503
Speaker 1: Good but uh and also all the other things. There's

876
00:42:23,504 --> 00:42:28,863
Speaker 1: no pens over my house but uh so, but I

877
00:42:28,904 --> 00:42:31,343
Speaker 1: know that, like I just knew that, like those there's

878
00:42:31,344 --> 00:42:33,064
Speaker 1: a second there's a segment of black people who don't

879
00:42:33,064 --> 00:42:35,263
Speaker 1: think I belong with them. They can smell it on me.

880
00:42:35,303 --> 00:42:35,863
Speaker 1: Did you have that?

881
00:42:37,104 --> 00:42:39,383
Speaker 2: I mean, you're also in the hip hop crew of hundreds.

882
00:42:39,944 --> 00:42:43,863
Speaker 4: Okay, but we would be talking about my life before then, okay, right,

883
00:42:43,904 --> 00:42:48,904
Speaker 4: because I discovered that community when I was like sixteen, okay, okay,

884
00:42:48,984 --> 00:42:51,823
Speaker 4: and you know before that, I can say I felt

885
00:42:51,864 --> 00:42:54,263
Speaker 4: like I didn't have much of a social identity at all.

886
00:42:55,544 --> 00:42:59,464
Speaker 4: So I always felt like I was learning how to

887
00:42:59,584 --> 00:43:02,183
Speaker 4: wear a socializing costume. That's why I say I could

888
00:43:02,183 --> 00:43:03,423
Speaker 4: speak people, because.

889
00:43:03,544 --> 00:43:04,263
Speaker 1: You know I could.

890
00:43:04,303 --> 00:43:06,743
Speaker 4: I think I could appear to be comfortable like I

891
00:43:06,783 --> 00:43:09,064
Speaker 4: could I could go to my cousin's house and lived

892
00:43:09,064 --> 00:43:10,264
Speaker 4: in the projects and be chilling.

893
00:43:10,464 --> 00:43:11,544
Speaker 1: Yeah you know.

894
00:43:11,783 --> 00:43:15,864
Speaker 4: Now I used to get roasted because I was legitimately

895
00:43:15,984 --> 00:43:20,104
Speaker 4: and visually a nerd, like it was undeniable, Like my

896
00:43:20,183 --> 00:43:25,303
Speaker 4: grandmother worked at kmart, okay, and so my clothes were

897
00:43:25,384 --> 00:43:26,823
Speaker 4: just whatever they were selling.

898
00:43:26,623 --> 00:43:30,544
Speaker 1: Yeah discount. Yeah. So I was just in nice sweaters

899
00:43:30,544 --> 00:43:36,824
Speaker 1: and corduroils all the time, all the business casual at eleven,

900
00:43:37,424 --> 00:43:39,984
Speaker 1: with a little glasses and a little shag. I was

901
00:43:40,024 --> 00:43:45,143
Speaker 1: not beating no nerd allegation. So I didn't. It wasn't

902
00:43:45,424 --> 00:43:50,104
Speaker 1: so much you're not black, but it was certainly you're

903
00:43:50,183 --> 00:43:54,384
Speaker 1: not cool, which that which also there's different ways to

904
00:43:54,464 --> 00:43:56,863
Speaker 1: roast where you're kicking somebody out, but you're also seeing

905
00:43:56,864 --> 00:43:58,263
Speaker 1: if you can roast them, see if they can take it.

906
00:43:58,263 --> 00:43:59,143
Speaker 2: Then they're letting them in.

907
00:43:59,223 --> 00:44:03,463
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I just saw you're so when does at

908
00:44:03,464 --> 00:44:06,544
Speaker 1: what point is is hip hop becoming a career?

909
00:44:07,824 --> 00:44:11,544
Speaker 4: So okay, I get in and I start freestyling. And

910
00:44:11,944 --> 00:44:15,104
Speaker 4: I would say I didn't record a verse until I

911
00:44:15,183 --> 00:44:18,623
Speaker 4: was eighteen for a song, and then I didn't write

912
00:44:18,663 --> 00:44:20,944
Speaker 4: a song until I was in college. I had to

913
00:44:20,944 --> 00:44:25,863
Speaker 4: be like twenty or twenty one, and but that entire

914
00:44:25,944 --> 00:44:29,784
Speaker 4: time freestyle and battling, like street corner rapping, like really

915
00:44:30,183 --> 00:44:33,144
Speaker 4: for real, for real, like battling, battling, battling.

916
00:44:32,864 --> 00:44:35,263
Speaker 1: Like you're not the guy who's like all in his bedroom.

917
00:44:35,743 --> 00:44:40,623
Speaker 4: No, I was there because there there wasn't a bedroom

918
00:44:40,743 --> 00:44:43,464
Speaker 4: thing at that time, because nobody had recording equipment. So

919
00:44:43,504 --> 00:44:47,784
Speaker 4: we didn't even none of us even thought of ever

920
00:44:47,984 --> 00:44:51,464
Speaker 4: like trying to make it. You know, we were just

921
00:44:51,663 --> 00:44:53,623
Speaker 4: doing the arts because that's what we were supposed to do.

922
00:44:53,703 --> 00:44:55,783
Speaker 4: We were supposed to get out there and do the graffiti.

923
00:44:55,864 --> 00:44:58,423
Speaker 4: We're supposed to learn to break dance, were supposed to rap,

924
00:44:58,424 --> 00:45:01,383
Speaker 4: We're supposed to battle. So that's what we were doing,

925
00:45:01,384 --> 00:45:03,384
Speaker 4: and we were getting sharp and getting good and whatever.

926
00:45:03,504 --> 00:45:04,504
Speaker 1: You know, I was. I was.

927
00:45:05,623 --> 00:45:08,303
Speaker 4: I achieved a lot of success in rap, like it

928
00:45:08,384 --> 00:45:11,584
Speaker 4: was something that people could see I was good, and

929
00:45:11,663 --> 00:45:14,383
Speaker 4: so I just did that, just freestyle for years and.

930
00:45:14,424 --> 00:45:15,703
Speaker 1: Years and years and years.

931
00:45:15,743 --> 00:45:19,504
Speaker 4: This band that I used to freestyle with in undergrad

932
00:45:20,663 --> 00:45:23,984
Speaker 4: booked a show at the local spot where people performed,

933
00:45:23,984 --> 00:45:25,223
Speaker 4: and they were like, we want to put you on

934
00:45:25,263 --> 00:45:27,823
Speaker 4: a bill. I'm like cool, and they were like you

935
00:45:27,864 --> 00:45:28,623
Speaker 4: need some songs.

936
00:45:31,024 --> 00:45:33,823
Speaker 2: They're like, oh yeah, you're oh cool. No no, no,

937
00:45:36,024 --> 00:45:36,783
Speaker 2: so I had to.

938
00:45:36,824 --> 00:45:41,384
Speaker 4: I went home and I wrote and memorized five songs

939
00:45:41,544 --> 00:45:45,904
Speaker 4: Jesus and that was my set, and I performed and

940
00:45:45,944 --> 00:45:47,984
Speaker 4: it felt so cool. And then at the end of

941
00:45:48,024 --> 00:45:53,064
Speaker 4: that show, they put two hundred dollars in my hand.

942
00:45:53,183 --> 00:45:58,064
Speaker 4: And when I tell you, I've never had a better

943
00:45:58,183 --> 00:46:03,344
Speaker 4: feeling in my whole life. And that was the beginning.

944
00:46:03,544 --> 00:46:07,743
Speaker 4: It was, oh, like the thing I like to do,

945
00:46:07,944 --> 00:46:08,984
Speaker 4: but for money.

946
00:46:09,223 --> 00:46:12,463
Speaker 1: And also I just wrote these like, yeah, these songs

947
00:46:12,464 --> 00:46:16,143
Speaker 1: didn't exist a we could go and now exactly exactly.

948
00:46:16,223 --> 00:46:16,743
Speaker 2: So it was.

949
00:46:16,783 --> 00:46:23,104
Speaker 4: It was all very encouraging toward Huh, maybe I could

950
00:46:23,143 --> 00:46:25,223
Speaker 4: try this one day. So when I moved. I ended

951
00:46:25,263 --> 00:46:28,944
Speaker 4: up moving to LA in two thousand and four, just

952
00:46:28,944 --> 00:46:32,143
Speaker 4: a couple of years after I finished undergrad, and I

953
00:46:32,183 --> 00:46:34,104
Speaker 4: was only supposed to be here a year because I

954
00:46:34,143 --> 00:46:36,343
Speaker 4: was supposed to go to grad school, but I didn't

955
00:46:36,424 --> 00:46:38,263
Speaker 4: end up doing that. But in the back of my

956
00:46:38,303 --> 00:46:41,743
Speaker 4: head when I moved out here was the thought of

957
00:46:43,384 --> 00:46:45,984
Speaker 4: maybe I could, Maybe I could try it, because I

958
00:46:46,064 --> 00:46:50,343
Speaker 4: knew I knew the project Blowed guys. Now, I had

959
00:46:50,504 --> 00:46:53,424
Speaker 4: visited a couple of times out here in LA visiting

960
00:46:53,464 --> 00:46:54,904
Speaker 4: my dad, and I had gone to the Blow and

961
00:46:54,944 --> 00:46:56,783
Speaker 4: I was a freestyle, so they took me. Actually, the

962
00:46:56,783 --> 00:46:58,784
Speaker 4: first time I wrapped at the Blow, I got booed

963
00:46:58,783 --> 00:46:59,304
Speaker 4: off stage.

964
00:47:01,384 --> 00:47:05,504
Speaker 1: The first time that boot off stage. And when you

965
00:47:05,504 --> 00:47:07,623
Speaker 1: look back on getting boot off stage, there's times you

966
00:47:07,663 --> 00:47:09,463
Speaker 1: get boot off when it's your fault, in times where

967
00:47:09,464 --> 00:47:11,104
Speaker 1: you go they sucked, which.

968
00:47:10,904 --> 00:47:14,183
Speaker 4: Was I don't I think it's always your fault if

969
00:47:14,223 --> 00:47:18,504
Speaker 4: you get booed off stage personally, Okay, okay, So I

970
00:47:18,504 --> 00:47:22,383
Speaker 4: mean I certainly was not. When I first got on

971
00:47:22,424 --> 00:47:27,143
Speaker 4: that stage. I had never rapped to a room full

972
00:47:27,143 --> 00:47:31,664
Speaker 4: of rappers really, not like that, Like I had wrapped

973
00:47:31,703 --> 00:47:35,544
Speaker 4: around rappers in like cipher settings. I had wrapped on stage,

974
00:47:35,703 --> 00:47:36,344
Speaker 4: not like.

975
00:47:36,143 --> 00:47:39,823
Speaker 1: We don't know me. I'm stepping on stage. I'm going

976
00:47:39,824 --> 00:47:42,464
Speaker 1: to impress you with my with my lyrical ability, and

977
00:47:42,584 --> 00:47:46,864
Speaker 1: everyone there just wants their time to be on stage.

978
00:47:47,064 --> 00:47:49,663
Speaker 1: So if you're not being amazing, not using the topic,

979
00:47:49,824 --> 00:47:51,743
Speaker 1: well yeah, they're getting you about it.

980
00:47:53,424 --> 00:47:53,783
Speaker 2: So it was.

981
00:47:53,824 --> 00:47:56,263
Speaker 4: It was a hard lesson, but you know, I came back.

982
00:47:56,344 --> 00:47:59,344
Speaker 4: I had to sort of acclimate to what they were doing.

983
00:47:59,663 --> 00:48:02,544
Speaker 4: It was a different approach, but I learned that approach too.

984
00:48:02,584 --> 00:48:04,143
Speaker 1: It's funny that the same with comedy like if you

985
00:48:04,223 --> 00:48:06,024
Speaker 1: do comedy in Chicago when you come to LA and

986
00:48:06,064 --> 00:48:07,944
Speaker 1: it's like, oh, this is a different vibe.

987
00:48:08,104 --> 00:48:11,423
Speaker 4: Yeah, in Chicago and LA specifically, when it came rap,

988
00:48:11,544 --> 00:48:15,703
Speaker 4: it was two distinct different styles and I had to Yeah,

989
00:48:15,703 --> 00:48:17,303
Speaker 4: I had to learn how to you know, I had

990
00:48:17,303 --> 00:48:19,823
Speaker 4: to learn how to rap out here and put that

991
00:48:19,864 --> 00:48:20,544
Speaker 4: into my tool bell.

992
00:48:20,584 --> 00:48:23,143
Speaker 1: But at that point, how would you to layman like

993
00:48:23,223 --> 00:48:25,544
Speaker 1: myself say, this is the difference in the styles.

994
00:48:26,584 --> 00:48:30,903
Speaker 4: At the time, the Chicago was split into south Side

995
00:48:30,904 --> 00:48:31,503
Speaker 4: and west Side.

996
00:48:31,783 --> 00:48:33,263
Speaker 1: The south Side style was very it.

997
00:48:33,223 --> 00:48:36,183
Speaker 4: Was very much a punchline style. It was like a

998
00:48:36,223 --> 00:48:39,223
Speaker 4: lot of bars. I mean a lot of verses were constructed,

999
00:48:39,824 --> 00:48:42,424
Speaker 4: set up punchline, set up punchline, a lot of big

1000
00:48:42,623 --> 00:48:46,223
Speaker 4: metaphors that that people would try to impress people with.

1001
00:48:47,904 --> 00:48:53,183
Speaker 4: In LA, it was about different cadences.

1002
00:48:54,183 --> 00:48:59,344
Speaker 1: It was about the percussive sound, being able to freestyle

1003
00:48:59,464 --> 00:49:03,104
Speaker 1: like that. And so when I came on that stage

1004
00:49:04,584 --> 00:49:09,623
Speaker 1: doing my setup punchline, it was like, get out, we

1005
00:49:09,703 --> 00:49:15,064
Speaker 1: do it up there. That is what it sounded like

1006
00:49:15,104 --> 00:49:17,104
Speaker 1: to them. That's what it sounded like to them. They

1007
00:49:17,143 --> 00:49:19,383
Speaker 1: weren't they weren't interested in watching me.

1008
00:49:19,424 --> 00:49:26,584
Speaker 4: Think, But because I knew some of those people, and

1009
00:49:26,663 --> 00:49:31,223
Speaker 4: some of those people had careers such that when I

1010
00:49:31,344 --> 00:49:34,464
Speaker 4: was in Chicago, I would hear some of their records.

1011
00:49:34,944 --> 00:49:38,504
Speaker 4: So ac alone Abstract ruled Micah nine a freestyle fellowship.

1012
00:49:38,504 --> 00:49:41,343
Speaker 4: These are guys who would be at Project Blow but

1013
00:49:41,504 --> 00:49:44,743
Speaker 4: have music that was going around the nation. So when

1014
00:49:44,783 --> 00:49:48,944
Speaker 4: I came out here, I was like, I'm gonna go

1015
00:49:48,984 --> 00:49:52,544
Speaker 4: over there and not leave, and I learned how to

1016
00:49:52,544 --> 00:49:53,504
Speaker 4: have a career over there.

1017
00:49:55,104 --> 00:49:58,064
Speaker 1: So you know, you're surrounded by rappers. Everybody's in it

1018
00:49:58,104 --> 00:50:00,263
Speaker 1: for different reasons, had different ideas what their career is

1019
00:50:00,303 --> 00:50:04,143
Speaker 1: going to be. You're and there's also been moments when

1020
00:50:04,183 --> 00:50:09,383
Speaker 1: it's like so called all black rappers have been sort

1021
00:50:09,384 --> 00:50:12,424
Speaker 1: of like have sort of entered the mainstream. Are you

1022
00:50:12,544 --> 00:50:18,104
Speaker 1: ever sort of like I say, this is a comedian.

1023
00:50:18,424 --> 00:50:20,183
Speaker 1: There were times in my career I thought I can

1024
00:50:20,223 --> 00:50:22,503
Speaker 1: be Eddie Murphy and there's then I realized I can't

1025
00:50:22,504 --> 00:50:24,823
Speaker 1: be it, you know what I mean, like like and

1026
00:50:24,864 --> 00:50:26,664
Speaker 1: looking back, I don't know what I was thinking about,

1027
00:50:26,783 --> 00:50:28,663
Speaker 1: but like and then so but I think, but then

1028
00:50:28,703 --> 00:50:31,064
Speaker 1: there's like I can see a path forward that's not that,

1029
00:50:31,223 --> 00:50:32,863
Speaker 1: but it is going to put me in a place

1030
00:50:32,864 --> 00:50:34,663
Speaker 1: where I can provide for my family and do what

1031
00:50:34,703 --> 00:50:36,944
Speaker 1: I want to do totally. Are you ever being like

1032
00:50:36,984 --> 00:50:41,223
Speaker 1: looking at a little Wayne and going like I'm next? No? Absolutely,

1033
00:50:41,303 --> 00:50:43,383
Speaker 1: See that's the thing because every rap most rappers would

1034
00:50:43,384 --> 00:50:45,783
Speaker 1: tell you if I don't think I'm you know, well

1035
00:50:45,824 --> 00:50:48,823
Speaker 1: that's the thing. I think great, But I think that

1036
00:50:48,904 --> 00:50:53,024
Speaker 1: what it's again, I think that what people at the

1037
00:50:53,143 --> 00:50:56,224
Speaker 1: very very top of the genre are doing are making

1038
00:50:56,263 --> 00:50:59,663
Speaker 1: something that's easily mass market digestible. And I'm not the

1039
00:50:59,703 --> 00:51:02,263
Speaker 1: best at that. In fact, I'll be terrible at that,

1040
00:51:03,104 --> 00:51:04,663
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying, But like.

1041
00:51:04,783 --> 00:51:07,663
Speaker 4: There's nobody better than me doing what I do, and

1042
00:51:07,703 --> 00:51:08,944
Speaker 4: that's what I always stand on.

1043
00:51:09,584 --> 00:51:14,143
Speaker 1: So the highest heights I had, you know, I had

1044
00:51:14,183 --> 00:51:19,623
Speaker 1: reached was having a television show, right and and you know,

1045
00:51:19,743 --> 00:51:21,983
Speaker 1: being able to do my thing next to method Man,

1046
00:51:22,143 --> 00:51:23,464
Speaker 1: next to lizz O, next.

1047
00:51:23,263 --> 00:51:23,703
Speaker 2: To M F.

1048
00:51:23,783 --> 00:51:30,183
Speaker 1: Doom like this. That that was like my dreams realized.

1049
00:51:30,263 --> 00:51:32,263
Speaker 1: That was the New Negroes. Negroes.

1050
00:51:32,384 --> 00:51:33,863
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, so.

1051
00:51:33,824 --> 00:51:37,464
Speaker 4: That was you know, as far as the level of

1052
00:51:37,464 --> 00:51:39,984
Speaker 4: cultural penetration that I was ever hoping for.

1053
00:51:40,064 --> 00:51:42,383
Speaker 1: That was it. So we talked about that, you had

1054
00:51:42,424 --> 00:51:45,344
Speaker 1: the show of the New Negroes, which I remember Baron

1055
00:51:45,384 --> 00:51:47,423
Speaker 1: Vaughn's a part of that. And there was just this

1056
00:51:47,504 --> 00:51:48,823
Speaker 1: I remember hearing about it for a long time, like

1057
00:51:48,864 --> 00:51:51,623
Speaker 1: it just seemed like it was like the Comedy Central

1058
00:51:51,663 --> 00:51:53,703
Speaker 1: was trying to figure like had it and didn't been

1059
00:51:53,743 --> 00:51:55,743
Speaker 1: put it out for a while, and yeah, it was.

1060
00:51:55,783 --> 00:51:57,264
Speaker 1: It was a weird situ It was easy.

1061
00:51:57,303 --> 00:51:58,904
Speaker 2: Here's the thing I knew of somebody from the outside.

1062
00:51:58,904 --> 00:52:02,263
Speaker 1: Also Kevin's my friend that like, oh, that's to know

1063
00:52:02,303 --> 00:52:05,143
Speaker 1: that you have a show and to know that it's

1064
00:52:05,183 --> 00:52:07,064
Speaker 1: not like it's not doing the thing you thought I

1065
00:52:07,183 --> 00:52:09,143
Speaker 1: was gonna do, or to know that it's taken a

1066
00:52:09,183 --> 00:52:12,383
Speaker 1: while and to know that, like and then to know

1067
00:52:12,424 --> 00:52:14,183
Speaker 1: that it's out and you go, I thought the dream

1068
00:52:14,263 --> 00:52:16,584
Speaker 1: was having a show, and now I have a show,

1069
00:52:16,623 --> 00:52:19,663
Speaker 1: and I sort of maybe I know. I'll speak for myself,

1070
00:52:19,703 --> 00:52:21,263
Speaker 1: I kind of can't wait for this to be over.

1071
00:52:22,504 --> 00:52:26,303
Speaker 4: I can't say that I was of the mind that

1072
00:52:26,344 --> 00:52:28,544
Speaker 4: I couldn't wait for it to be over. But after

1073
00:52:28,584 --> 00:52:30,863
Speaker 4: the first season ended, and you know, when we were

1074
00:52:30,864 --> 00:52:34,464
Speaker 4: having conversations about potentially doing a second, my thought was,

1075
00:52:34,504 --> 00:52:38,303
Speaker 4: I do want it to happen, but I have to

1076
00:52:38,384 --> 00:52:42,064
Speaker 4: find a way to do it where this network is

1077
00:52:42,104 --> 00:52:45,663
Speaker 4: not shitting in my heart. I have to find a

1078
00:52:45,703 --> 00:52:48,383
Speaker 4: way to do it where they are not chewing on

1079
00:52:48,544 --> 00:52:52,304
Speaker 4: my soul for this because what I can tell after

1080
00:52:52,344 --> 00:52:56,183
Speaker 4: having this one season's worth of experience is that these

1081
00:52:56,263 --> 00:53:01,024
Speaker 4: people don't much care what happens to my mind, and

1082
00:53:01,064 --> 00:53:03,464
Speaker 4: so I can't keep feeding them the best part of me.

1083
00:53:03,743 --> 00:53:06,703
Speaker 4: That's yeah, So that that was my thought, Like I

1084
00:53:06,743 --> 00:53:09,463
Speaker 4: definitely wanted to do it again. Yeah, but I had

1085
00:53:09,464 --> 00:53:10,703
Speaker 4: to find a different way to do it.

1086
00:53:11,584 --> 00:53:14,863
Speaker 1: And season two didn't happen. Season two didn't happen, you know,

1087
00:53:14,944 --> 00:53:17,864
Speaker 1: and even that was it. It was like we really

1088
00:53:17,944 --> 00:53:20,104
Speaker 1: like sing in your Heart, Yeah, but that was the

1089
00:53:20,183 --> 00:53:23,863
Speaker 1: final turn. That's not you really need to do that part.

1090
00:53:25,183 --> 00:53:26,584
Speaker 1: We'd love to do a season two, but we got

1091
00:53:26,623 --> 00:53:28,944
Speaker 1: to ship in your Heart. No, man, I interest you

1092
00:53:29,024 --> 00:53:30,024
Speaker 1: in shitting in your heart?

1093
00:53:30,743 --> 00:53:33,464
Speaker 2: No, So where does that take you after that? Is that?

1094
00:53:33,504 --> 00:53:35,504
Speaker 1: Like, Well, I'm just going my own way.

1095
00:53:35,904 --> 00:53:37,984
Speaker 4: I mean I have I've had a I've had a

1096
00:53:38,024 --> 00:53:41,223
Speaker 4: few TV projects in the works, I had things in development,

1097
00:53:41,223 --> 00:53:43,904
Speaker 4: I had things get shelved, i have shows I've written for.

1098
00:53:45,183 --> 00:53:48,263
Speaker 4: I haven't had another look like that. But it's like

1099
00:53:49,143 --> 00:53:53,024
Speaker 4: I feel like where we are now. That was a

1100
00:53:53,143 --> 00:53:56,984
Speaker 4: stand up comedy, hip hop variety show, which on paper

1101
00:53:58,743 --> 00:54:00,024
Speaker 4: miraculous that it ever.

1102
00:53:59,864 --> 00:54:02,824
Speaker 2: Existed, to the air miraculous.

1103
00:54:03,424 --> 00:54:04,983
Speaker 4: So I mean, it's not the sort of thing where

1104
00:54:04,984 --> 00:54:07,223
Speaker 4: I behold in my breath looking to do that, that

1105
00:54:07,623 --> 00:54:11,024
Speaker 4: type of thing again, trying to reboot it, right, I think,

1106
00:54:11,263 --> 00:54:14,223
Speaker 4: I mean, we did try to, but we gave up

1107
00:54:14,223 --> 00:54:16,743
Speaker 4: on that dream. But the things that I try to

1108
00:54:16,783 --> 00:54:19,623
Speaker 4: do in TV now more just like scripted, like more

1109
00:54:19,703 --> 00:54:24,463
Speaker 4: trying to translate my ideas into, you know, what what

1110
00:54:24,504 --> 00:54:27,984
Speaker 4: the market is looking for, rather than trying to shoehorn

1111
00:54:28,064 --> 00:54:31,703
Speaker 4: what I do into platforms that are that maybe it's

1112
00:54:31,743 --> 00:54:33,143
Speaker 4: not studied for well.

1113
00:54:32,984 --> 00:54:35,064
Speaker 1: And that and and that brings me to how I

1114
00:54:35,223 --> 00:54:37,183
Speaker 1: discovered you in the last I don't know how long

1115
00:54:37,183 --> 00:54:38,424
Speaker 1: you've been doing it, but when I discovered you in

1116
00:54:38,464 --> 00:54:42,504
Speaker 1: the last several months of you now on YouTube just

1117
00:54:42,544 --> 00:54:45,784
Speaker 1: sort of like speaking to the culture directly and putting

1118
00:54:45,783 --> 00:54:51,223
Speaker 1: you're putting your opinions out there and sort of you know,

1119
00:54:51,223 --> 00:54:53,104
Speaker 1: certainly you've always been the first with opinions, and you've

1120
00:54:53,104 --> 00:54:55,423
Speaker 1: always you're on Twitter, you've certainly weren't shy about sharing

1121
00:54:55,424 --> 00:54:58,024
Speaker 1: your opinions. But what makes you decide to go and

1122
00:54:58,024 --> 00:54:59,584
Speaker 1: I don't know if I've caught up late, Like I

1123
00:54:59,584 --> 00:55:00,903
Speaker 1: don't know how long it has been going on, but

1124
00:55:00,984 --> 00:55:03,183
Speaker 1: like it talks about what this project is.

1125
00:55:03,183 --> 00:55:06,183
Speaker 4: It hasn't been that long. So I started streaming on

1126
00:55:06,263 --> 00:55:09,584
Speaker 4: twitch I think like three years ago. Okay, uh, And

1127
00:55:10,223 --> 00:55:13,944
Speaker 4: that's a that's a fun thing that can pay a

1128
00:55:13,984 --> 00:55:17,823
Speaker 4: decent amount of money if you got the right level

1129
00:55:17,824 --> 00:55:21,104
Speaker 4: of engagement. And you know, my show on there has

1130
00:55:21,263 --> 00:55:24,383
Speaker 4: gotten to a decent place. But it occurred to me

1131
00:55:24,504 --> 00:55:27,623
Speaker 4: that the state of YouTube was such that I was

1132
00:55:27,663 --> 00:55:32,263
Speaker 4: seeing a lot of people who were repurposing clips from

1133
00:55:32,303 --> 00:55:39,703
Speaker 4: their live streams into YouTube content, and I dabbled in that.

1134
00:55:40,064 --> 00:55:44,904
Speaker 4: Especially around the time of the Kendrick and Drake battle.

1135
00:55:44,984 --> 00:55:49,623
Speaker 4: Was this huge sort of open door where everybody had

1136
00:55:49,623 --> 00:55:54,824
Speaker 4: a voracious appetite for discourse around that beef and them songs.

1137
00:55:54,944 --> 00:55:57,584
Speaker 1: That was me, I was everybody. Yeah, I wanted to

1138
00:55:57,584 --> 00:55:59,984
Speaker 1: hear everybody's opinion on it. I wanted to know everybody

1139
00:56:00,424 --> 00:56:00,823
Speaker 1: that was me.

1140
00:56:01,064 --> 00:56:04,823
Speaker 4: And that's sort of how I got into it, right.

1141
00:56:05,464 --> 00:56:06,823
Speaker 4: I had made a couple of clips and put a

1142
00:56:06,864 --> 00:56:08,263
Speaker 4: couple of things up and was short of trying to

1143
00:56:08,263 --> 00:56:09,863
Speaker 4: figure out my way through it. But I saw in

1144
00:56:09,904 --> 00:56:13,384
Speaker 4: that that it was exactly that attitude that everybody wanted

1145
00:56:13,384 --> 00:56:14,943
Speaker 4: to hear what everybody had to say.

1146
00:56:15,024 --> 00:56:16,383
Speaker 1: I don't care if I grew, I don't care if

1147
00:56:16,384 --> 00:56:19,943
Speaker 1: I like what you voted for. I don't care if

1148
00:56:19,944 --> 00:56:22,263
Speaker 1: you were by bullying high school. If you have an

1149
00:56:22,263 --> 00:56:24,623
Speaker 1: opinion on Drake versus Kendrick, I would I would like

1150
00:56:24,663 --> 00:56:27,864
Speaker 1: to hear it. So between that and Diddy getting arrested,

1151
00:56:28,504 --> 00:56:32,863
Speaker 1: and because my biggest clip was me or one of

1152
00:56:32,864 --> 00:56:35,904
Speaker 1: my biggest early clips was speaking to that because I

1153
00:56:35,984 --> 00:56:44,104
Speaker 1: remember being especially sort of upset about the Diddy revelations

1154
00:56:44,223 --> 00:56:47,584
Speaker 1: because that hip hop community that I'm telling you I've

1155
00:56:47,623 --> 00:56:50,183
Speaker 1: been a part of thirty years, I feel like we

1156
00:56:50,263 --> 00:56:53,223
Speaker 1: have been trying to warn people about Diddy for the

1157
00:56:53,384 --> 00:56:56,143
Speaker 1: entire time. Oh you know, like I feel like you

1158
00:56:56,183 --> 00:56:58,904
Speaker 1: have about your specific hip hop community, like the greater

1159
00:56:58,984 --> 00:57:00,663
Speaker 1: hip hop well, I mean, I mean the greater hip

1160
00:57:00,703 --> 00:57:03,783
Speaker 1: hop community in terms of the bee boy side of it,

1161
00:57:04,024 --> 00:57:06,143
Speaker 1: you know, the underground hip hop side of it. Like

1162
00:57:06,504 --> 00:57:10,983
Speaker 1: so where sometimes our messaging comes across as mainstream bad,

1163
00:57:11,143 --> 00:57:14,503
Speaker 1: underground good, I think that there's an underlying thing where

1164
00:57:14,504 --> 00:57:19,383
Speaker 1: we're like, hey, that guy, and where he's trying to

1165
00:57:19,424 --> 00:57:23,144
Speaker 1: take things. It's got this weird thing too, Like it's

1166
00:57:23,224 --> 00:57:25,744
Speaker 1: it seems sort of antithetical to this thing that we're

1167
00:57:25,744 --> 00:57:29,184
Speaker 1: trying to preserve. And if you follow his career, like

1168
00:57:29,224 --> 00:57:32,023
Speaker 1: it opened the door to all of this weirdness, right,

1169
00:57:33,824 --> 00:57:35,584
Speaker 1: And I feel like that's something that we were ahead on.

1170
00:57:35,784 --> 00:57:39,184
Speaker 1: And and and I had a lot to say about

1171
00:57:39,264 --> 00:57:41,944
Speaker 1: trying to understand why it is that people don't listen

1172
00:57:42,424 --> 00:57:45,744
Speaker 1: to that sort of warning. And that was that was

1173
00:57:45,784 --> 00:57:48,424
Speaker 1: an early successful clip. And that was one of the

1174
00:57:48,424 --> 00:57:51,823
Speaker 1: ones I was just like, I was just talking. I

1175
00:57:51,864 --> 00:57:52,383
Speaker 1: didn't edit.

1176
00:57:53,784 --> 00:57:57,424
Speaker 4: I talked for like half an hour, and people liked it.

1177
00:57:57,464 --> 00:58:00,624
Speaker 4: And I was like, oh, okay, so this is and.

1178
00:58:00,544 --> 00:58:02,824
Speaker 1: It's like it's like when you did the five songs

1179
00:58:02,824 --> 00:58:04,903
Speaker 1: at the club and you got two hundred dollars, You're like, oh,

1180
00:58:04,984 --> 00:58:07,423
Speaker 1: is that I just talked for half hour?

1181
00:58:07,464 --> 00:58:08,624
Speaker 2: By the thing I care a lot about?

1182
00:58:08,824 --> 00:58:13,464
Speaker 1: Yeah, And and and that's the that's the balancing acto.

1183
00:58:13,544 --> 00:58:17,224
Speaker 1: Was that last part you said, because and this is

1184
00:58:17,224 --> 00:58:20,144
Speaker 1: what I ran into early on, was that, Oh, the

1185
00:58:20,184 --> 00:58:22,744
Speaker 1: way that this works as a thing to make money

1186
00:58:22,744 --> 00:58:25,184
Speaker 1: on is that you have to talk about the things

1187
00:58:25,224 --> 00:58:26,024
Speaker 1: people care about.

1188
00:58:27,104 --> 00:58:27,823
Speaker 2: But do.

1189
00:58:28,064 --> 00:58:31,584
Speaker 1: I always care about what people care about. That's That's

1190
00:58:31,664 --> 00:58:34,184
Speaker 1: the thing I see happen to people that I follow

1191
00:58:34,264 --> 00:58:36,984
Speaker 1: on YouTube is you can tell when they're like paying

1192
00:58:37,024 --> 00:58:40,064
Speaker 1: more too much attention to the algorithm, and I'm like,

1193
00:58:40,144 --> 00:58:43,943
Speaker 1: do you really want to talk about or actually, maybe

1194
00:58:43,984 --> 00:58:45,184
Speaker 1: you'd like talking about it, but I don't think you

1195
00:58:45,264 --> 00:58:49,264
Speaker 1: having like a real Yeah, I think you need to

1196
00:58:49,304 --> 00:58:51,983
Speaker 1: say about it. You're talking about it. But I think

1197
00:58:52,024 --> 00:58:54,304
Speaker 1: there's that's the thing. I think there's an invitation just

1198
00:58:54,304 --> 00:58:56,064
Speaker 1: sort of like, oh, this is trending in the news.

1199
00:58:56,624 --> 00:58:58,704
Speaker 1: I should probably got I got a way in. And

1200
00:58:58,744 --> 00:59:00,863
Speaker 1: I see people sometimes like y'all have been begging me

1201
00:59:00,944 --> 00:59:04,264
Speaker 1: to make a video, Like recently everybody who I follow

1202
00:59:04,304 --> 00:59:05,983
Speaker 1: is like, I know, y'all want me to talk about

1203
00:59:06,064 --> 00:59:09,944
Speaker 1: Jack Harlow, Jack Hart, Yes, And it just feels like

1204
00:59:10,344 --> 00:59:13,184
Speaker 1: that becomes like and believe me, when did Jack Harlow

1205
00:59:13,224 --> 00:59:15,184
Speaker 1: think broke? And as we take this, it's not that

1206
00:59:15,264 --> 00:59:17,744
Speaker 1: long ago. I was like, let me go to what

1207
00:59:17,784 --> 00:59:20,024
Speaker 1: Mike's talking about. Like I definitely was like, I want

1208
00:59:20,024 --> 00:59:21,664
Speaker 1: to see he's got something to say. Oh good, he does,

1209
00:59:21,944 --> 00:59:22,824
Speaker 1: and it's a long video.

1210
00:59:24,104 --> 00:59:29,184
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, that was like Christmas. I mean but but

1211
00:59:29,264 --> 00:59:31,863
Speaker 4: that is, you know, that is the difference, right, Like

1212
00:59:32,264 --> 00:59:35,744
Speaker 4: that is something that I genuinely had thoughts about, right

1213
00:59:37,464 --> 00:59:40,744
Speaker 4: where there was other stuff I found myself talking about

1214
00:59:41,064 --> 00:59:43,704
Speaker 4: when this journey first started, where I was like, eh,

1215
00:59:43,824 --> 00:59:45,744
Speaker 4: I'd kind of rather I didn't make a video on

1216
00:59:45,784 --> 00:59:48,863
Speaker 4: that because I I don't actually care about it, you know,

1217
00:59:50,024 --> 00:59:52,624
Speaker 4: but it's it's it's just it's it's that just learning

1218
00:59:52,664 --> 00:59:55,984
Speaker 4: to you kind of listen to myself and and know

1219
00:59:56,104 --> 00:59:59,184
Speaker 4: this some some discussions I'll I'd rather stay out.

1220
00:59:59,064 --> 01:00:01,224
Speaker 1: Of, which is which is I have that same thing.

1221
01:00:01,264 --> 01:00:03,144
Speaker 1: It's like I don't actually need to weigh in on this.

1222
01:00:03,224 --> 01:00:23,224
Speaker 1: I can share somebody else's opinion, right. But so there's

1223
01:00:23,264 --> 01:00:24,784
Speaker 1: two things I want to talk about. One is just

1224
01:00:24,864 --> 01:00:27,343
Speaker 1: the how you came to be this sort of like

1225
01:00:27,464 --> 01:00:29,744
Speaker 1: version of yourself that you are and exists inside the

1226
01:00:29,784 --> 01:00:33,903
Speaker 1: greater Black umbrella that we that we live under, and

1227
01:00:34,104 --> 01:00:38,744
Speaker 1: you know, indie indie rap, indie black, you know over there,

1228
01:00:39,064 --> 01:00:42,864
Speaker 1: all the different ways to do over there over there.

1229
01:00:43,904 --> 01:00:46,024
Speaker 1: The other thing I'm talking about is, and this is

1230
01:00:46,024 --> 01:00:50,544
Speaker 1: something I deal with, is like how to maintain the

1231
01:00:50,624 --> 01:00:55,383
Speaker 1: independence without one sort of going like maybe you know

1232
01:00:55,384 --> 01:00:57,624
Speaker 1: there's ways you go maybe I will lean into the mainstream.

1233
01:00:58,024 --> 01:00:59,584
Speaker 1: Or there's sometimes it's like maybe I'll go get a

1234
01:00:59,664 --> 01:01:03,264
Speaker 1: job at the post office to quote Hollywood shuffle, like

1235
01:01:03,304 --> 01:01:05,224
Speaker 1: maybe I'll go, maybe I'll do some things I didn't

1236
01:01:05,264 --> 01:01:06,944
Speaker 1: think I was gonna do. Like with me, it's like

1237
01:01:06,984 --> 01:01:09,463
Speaker 1: I go three kids, nine jobs. I have to sort

1238
01:01:09,464 --> 01:01:11,064
Speaker 1: of like have a lot of things up in the air.

1239
01:01:11,184 --> 01:01:13,744
Speaker 1: Same because I still got to feed these people. Yep,

1240
01:01:14,024 --> 01:01:17,624
Speaker 1: and I mean literally these people. Yeah, not like feed

1241
01:01:17,664 --> 01:01:20,464
Speaker 1: the people my truth bombs. I mean, so how do

1242
01:01:20,544 --> 01:01:22,664
Speaker 1: you and I even the way? You and I don't

1243
01:01:22,704 --> 01:01:25,423
Speaker 1: need any money, God's gonna clear. But like I hear

1244
01:01:25,464 --> 01:01:29,664
Speaker 1: you like, oh this twitch thing okay, yeah, YouTube you're monetizing.

1245
01:01:29,704 --> 01:01:32,264
Speaker 2: Oh the video does well. And then also I'm going

1246
01:01:32,304 --> 01:01:32,744
Speaker 2: on tour.

1247
01:01:32,864 --> 01:01:34,704
Speaker 1: Yeah. Also I'm trying to do writing projects.

1248
01:01:34,784 --> 01:01:35,104
Speaker 2: How do you?

1249
01:01:35,144 --> 01:01:37,304
Speaker 1: How do you do all that? I mean, it's it

1250
01:01:37,384 --> 01:01:39,144
Speaker 1: is exactly what you said. I do it all because

1251
01:01:39,144 --> 01:01:39,544
Speaker 1: I have to.

1252
01:01:40,704 --> 01:01:43,944
Speaker 4: I got into a space at the end of twenty

1253
01:01:43,984 --> 01:01:45,584
Speaker 4: twenty four where.

1254
01:01:45,384 --> 01:01:46,424
Speaker 1: The outlook was bad.

1255
01:01:46,504 --> 01:01:51,464
Speaker 4: I had a I had a show that got bought

1256
01:01:51,824 --> 01:01:54,584
Speaker 4: and developed by Peacock.

1257
01:01:54,944 --> 01:01:57,664
Speaker 1: Okay, and you know.

1258
01:01:57,664 --> 01:02:02,184
Speaker 4: They sort of they sort of let us around by

1259
01:02:02,224 --> 01:02:07,384
Speaker 4: the nose for six seven months and then ultimately shelved

1260
01:02:07,384 --> 01:02:14,664
Speaker 4: the project. And that was that was like my last

1261
01:02:15,024 --> 01:02:17,784
Speaker 4: the last thing that my chips were on. Yeah, you know,

1262
01:02:18,024 --> 01:02:21,184
Speaker 4: the last big project that my chips were on. And

1263
01:02:21,544 --> 01:02:24,464
Speaker 4: I sort of looked around and was like, oh, yeah,

1264
01:02:24,504 --> 01:02:26,744
Speaker 4: this is this is not this doesn't look good.

1265
01:02:27,184 --> 01:02:29,584
Speaker 1: It looks bad when that when that's when the when

1266
01:02:29,624 --> 01:02:32,863
Speaker 1: those chips go off the table, like wait a minute, Mike,

1267
01:02:32,904 --> 01:02:37,383
Speaker 1: I'm missing some chip. Yeah, and your family looking over like, man,

1268
01:02:37,384 --> 01:02:38,624
Speaker 1: we're hungry. Yeah.

1269
01:02:38,824 --> 01:02:41,664
Speaker 4: I got to have a big son, he's very big.

1270
01:02:43,344 --> 01:02:47,024
Speaker 4: And I looked around and I was.

1271
01:02:46,984 --> 01:02:50,304
Speaker 1: Like, I need to get a job. Probably I need

1272
01:02:50,304 --> 01:02:54,984
Speaker 1: to probably not be waiting for some email. It's going

1273
01:02:55,064 --> 01:02:57,624
Speaker 1: to change my life at this point. Oh man, this

1274
01:02:57,784 --> 01:03:03,903
Speaker 1: is so like exactly. Yeah. So I spent I would say,

1275
01:03:03,904 --> 01:03:07,504
Speaker 1: like the last quarter of twenty twenty four applying the

1276
01:03:07,624 --> 01:03:12,744
Speaker 1: jobs in the music industry and you know, and production

1277
01:03:12,904 --> 01:03:17,984
Speaker 1: houses in nonprofits because a lot of my work before

1278
01:03:18,304 --> 01:03:22,464
Speaker 1: being in entertainment was working in nonprofits. And when I

1279
01:03:22,504 --> 01:03:26,064
Speaker 1: tell you, I didn't even get an email back. I

1280
01:03:26,064 --> 01:03:31,784
Speaker 1: didn't even get any e mail back. I was like, oh,

1281
01:03:31,984 --> 01:03:33,904
Speaker 1: not even like oh, it'd be fun to we're not

1282
01:03:33,904 --> 01:03:35,064
Speaker 1: gonna hire him, let's meet him.

1283
01:03:37,664 --> 01:03:37,823
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1284
01:03:38,224 --> 01:03:46,544
Speaker 4: So, like I came away from that time having learned, oh,

1285
01:03:46,584 --> 01:03:50,704
Speaker 4: I'm unhirable, Like I can't really get a job because

1286
01:03:51,224 --> 01:03:55,863
Speaker 4: like there's no way to organize my resume that makes

1287
01:03:55,864 --> 01:03:58,584
Speaker 4: it look like I sincerely want to work at a place.

1288
01:03:58,704 --> 01:04:02,784
Speaker 1: That I'm This resume doesn't say nine to five minute breaks.

1289
01:04:03,064 --> 01:04:06,024
Speaker 1: It says it is much right. Yeah, it says it

1290
01:04:06,104 --> 01:04:09,544
Speaker 1: says needs a paycheck, and we'll leave here as soon

1291
01:04:09,624 --> 01:04:15,423
Speaker 1: as soon anything slightly better comes along with even a

1292
01:04:15,464 --> 01:04:17,943
Speaker 1: promise of something slightly better, I'm not showing up.

1293
01:04:18,224 --> 01:04:23,823
Speaker 4: So uh, with that knowledge, I sort of looked around

1294
01:04:23,824 --> 01:04:25,823
Speaker 4: at the landscape and I said, Okay, the only way

1295
01:04:25,944 --> 01:04:32,504
Speaker 4: through this is to work harder. You know, that was

1296
01:04:32,544 --> 01:04:35,904
Speaker 4: the only way through. So, you know, if it's streaming,

1297
01:04:36,104 --> 01:04:39,863
Speaker 4: if it's youtubing, uh, if it's TV writing, if it's

1298
01:04:39,904 --> 01:04:42,904
Speaker 4: doing shows, if it's putting you know, putting out albums.

1299
01:04:42,864 --> 01:04:48,184
Speaker 1: Merg sales, which I helped you with exactly exactly. Yeah, Uh,

1300
01:04:48,624 --> 01:04:49,144
Speaker 1: y'all don't know.

1301
01:04:49,344 --> 01:04:53,944
Speaker 4: Now, he's a he's a great, excellent uh merch second

1302
01:04:53,984 --> 01:04:54,544
Speaker 4: in command.

1303
01:04:54,624 --> 01:04:56,823
Speaker 1: There's proof. There's a picture of me holding up a

1304
01:04:56,864 --> 01:04:59,464
Speaker 1: T shirt like this that's proves no, we're yeah. I

1305
01:04:59,504 --> 01:05:02,064
Speaker 1: was happy to help. It was great. No, No, So

1306
01:05:02,704 --> 01:05:04,984
Speaker 1: I mean I I resonate so much with this because

1307
01:05:05,664 --> 01:05:09,064
Speaker 1: he sort of like and you know you sort of

1308
01:05:09,104 --> 01:05:11,383
Speaker 1: like every now and again, I get paralyzed sometime just

1309
01:05:11,424 --> 01:05:13,664
Speaker 1: like by like if I don't if it doesn't come

1310
01:05:13,704 --> 01:05:18,584
Speaker 1: out of my head and generate income, then the whole

1311
01:05:18,624 --> 01:05:21,264
Speaker 1: thing falls apart, like it's the whole house of cards.

1312
01:05:21,344 --> 01:05:23,264
Speaker 4: It is a lot of pressure, and I think what

1313
01:05:23,344 --> 01:05:30,824
Speaker 4: a lot of people underestimate is like how much time

1314
01:05:30,944 --> 01:05:33,823
Speaker 4: that takes, not even doing other things, but thinking of

1315
01:05:33,864 --> 01:05:34,584
Speaker 4: the things that the.

1316
01:05:34,744 --> 01:05:37,704
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's sort of like the gurgling of the thing

1317
01:05:37,744 --> 01:05:39,904
Speaker 1: to get it out of your mouth or your fingers.

1318
01:05:39,904 --> 01:05:43,544
Speaker 4: So you gotta you gotta imagine it, you gotta you know,

1319
01:05:43,984 --> 01:05:46,024
Speaker 4: try to get it in a place to be produced,

1320
01:05:46,184 --> 01:05:48,383
Speaker 4: and you gotta do these things like it's it's it

1321
01:05:48,464 --> 01:05:50,224
Speaker 4: is a lot, and I think I think a lot

1322
01:05:50,264 --> 01:05:53,704
Speaker 4: of times people underestimate how much free time that leaves

1323
01:05:53,704 --> 01:05:55,224
Speaker 4: a person with because it's not much.

1324
01:05:56,984 --> 01:05:58,704
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I was just how hard it is on

1325
01:05:58,744 --> 01:06:02,224
Speaker 1: your family right when it's like sometimes I know I'll

1326
01:06:02,224 --> 01:06:04,544
Speaker 1: speak for myself, I'm just like almost like like this

1327
01:06:04,664 --> 01:06:05,504
Speaker 1: in a corner.

1328
01:06:07,424 --> 01:06:13,104
Speaker 2: Gotta you wanna Yeah, you know what I mean? Huh?

1329
01:06:13,664 --> 01:06:15,584
Speaker 1: Or you know when my kids say, put your phone down, data,

1330
01:06:15,624 --> 01:06:18,464
Speaker 1: I need to get this on Instagram. Yeah. Yeah, they

1331
01:06:18,464 --> 01:06:20,664
Speaker 1: don't understand. It's not you know, it's not it's not

1332
01:06:20,744 --> 01:06:23,784
Speaker 1: happy fun time all I've Actually my kids are now

1333
01:06:23,824 --> 01:06:26,264
Speaker 1: like fourteen, Like my oldest one. I talked to her

1334
01:06:26,264 --> 01:06:30,144
Speaker 1: recently and we had she great, kid, doesn't hate me.

1335
01:06:30,344 --> 01:06:32,903
Speaker 1: Really hated the trope of teenagers hating their parents. So

1336
01:06:32,944 --> 01:06:34,344
Speaker 1: she's rebelling against that.

1337
01:06:34,344 --> 01:06:34,823
Speaker 2: That's nice.

1338
01:06:34,904 --> 01:06:37,863
Speaker 1: Yeah, No, she's rebelling against because everything you watch as

1339
01:06:37,864 --> 01:06:39,944
Speaker 1: a kid is about teenagers hating their parents. And she

1340
01:06:40,064 --> 01:06:42,024
Speaker 1: was like resolved at like ten, I'm not going to

1341
01:06:42,104 --> 01:06:46,064
Speaker 1: do that. Love, that's fantastic. We've had we've definitely, She's

1342
01:06:46,104 --> 01:06:49,304
Speaker 1: like we've had like beefs and screens, but none about

1343
01:06:49,344 --> 01:06:50,943
Speaker 1: like I just hate you over all. And the one

1344
01:06:50,944 --> 01:06:52,504
Speaker 1: time I was like, look she was she was upsetting

1345
01:06:52,504 --> 01:06:53,584
Speaker 1: me with something. I was like, you're on a hundred

1346
01:06:53,584 --> 01:06:56,264
Speaker 1: percent right, dah. Also, I think you're old enough to

1347
01:06:56,264 --> 01:06:59,064
Speaker 1: know it takes work to keep this afloat. That's ru

1348
01:07:00,264 --> 01:07:02,744
Speaker 1: It's not like you're old enough to know. I'm not

1349
01:07:02,784 --> 01:07:05,664
Speaker 1: asking you to participate, I'm not asking you to stress

1350
01:07:05,664 --> 01:07:08,704
Speaker 1: about it, but just understand that, like you are old

1351
01:07:08,784 --> 01:07:10,584
Speaker 1: enough to know that this is a lot of work,

1352
01:07:11,184 --> 01:07:13,984
Speaker 1: know and and I am happy to do it for you,

1353
01:07:14,024 --> 01:07:16,504
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna and sometimes that means I'm not going

1354
01:07:16,584 --> 01:07:20,744
Speaker 1: to be my best self. It does call something like

1355
01:07:20,824 --> 01:07:23,224
Speaker 1: and I don't it doesn't justify it, right, but just

1356
01:07:23,304 --> 01:07:25,984
Speaker 1: you're old enough to know that, Like you know, this

1357
01:07:26,064 --> 01:07:27,383
Speaker 1: is a lot and it's draining, and.

1358
01:07:28,184 --> 01:07:31,744
Speaker 4: It's just I think it just comes down to maths,

1359
01:07:31,784 --> 01:07:34,304
Speaker 4: Like it's just like the time and the energy that

1360
01:07:34,384 --> 01:07:37,864
Speaker 4: it takes. It's like, yeah, you're not always going to

1361
01:07:37,944 --> 01:07:40,184
Speaker 4: have your best I think that's that's a real fair

1362
01:07:40,224 --> 01:07:44,464
Speaker 4: way to do it. My son's seventeen, so you know,

1363
01:07:44,984 --> 01:07:48,744
Speaker 4: his his desire to connect. It's very regimented, you know

1364
01:07:48,784 --> 01:07:51,983
Speaker 4: what I'm saying. So I can manage my resources enough

1365
01:07:52,024 --> 01:07:54,144
Speaker 4: to kind of Yeah, he's not, Yeah, he's you know,

1366
01:07:54,184 --> 01:07:56,224
Speaker 4: he's not a little kid that needs a lot.

1367
01:07:56,344 --> 01:07:59,144
Speaker 1: Come and climb climb into your lab at the end

1368
01:07:59,184 --> 01:08:01,664
Speaker 1: of every day. Yeah he's not. I don't think.

1369
01:08:02,264 --> 01:08:04,543
Speaker 4: Well, he doesn't ask me to put my phone down,

1370
01:08:04,584 --> 01:08:07,744
Speaker 4: but sometimes I can tell that he wants me to

1371
01:08:07,784 --> 01:08:09,423
Speaker 4: be watching what he's watching on TV.

1372
01:08:09,744 --> 01:08:11,343
Speaker 1: And I'm like, you know what, you're right, you're a

1373
01:08:11,504 --> 01:08:14,264
Speaker 1: era you're at. So I guess my last guys, we

1374
01:08:14,344 --> 01:08:16,624
Speaker 1: bring this into the clothes. A couple of the questions one,

1375
01:08:17,344 --> 01:08:21,664
Speaker 1: what is your what? How is your son's uh, how's

1376
01:08:21,664 --> 01:08:26,023
Speaker 1: your son's blackness? Like, how's your son's It seems very

1377
01:08:26,744 --> 01:08:31,224
Speaker 1: uh stable, he he it's a different era now, it

1378
01:08:31,304 --> 01:08:33,984
Speaker 1: is a different era. Yeah, black people allowed to have

1379
01:08:34,024 --> 01:08:37,744
Speaker 1: like tattoos, and I mean black men. You know, the

1380
01:08:38,184 --> 01:08:42,824
Speaker 1: expression uh, you know, the expression spectrum is all over

1381
01:08:42,864 --> 01:08:48,824
Speaker 1: the place. He goes to a mostly white school, though,

1382
01:08:48,864 --> 01:08:51,744
Speaker 1: like there are you know, it's it's a it's a

1383
01:08:51,824 --> 01:08:55,904
Speaker 1: it's a neighborhood school, so there's a good amount of

1384
01:08:55,944 --> 01:09:01,184
Speaker 1: black kids, but they are the minority. So I don't

1385
01:09:01,224 --> 01:09:06,664
Speaker 1: think there's anyone around there challenging his blackness, but it

1386
01:09:06,744 --> 01:09:12,144
Speaker 1: is his identity seems very very grounded, very grounded.

1387
01:09:13,664 --> 01:09:15,024
Speaker 2: Good job, good job parents.

1388
01:09:15,144 --> 01:09:17,424
Speaker 4: Well you know it's it's I feel like I just

1389
01:09:17,504 --> 01:09:21,304
Speaker 4: have to uh uh fight the manisphere off of them

1390
01:09:21,304 --> 01:09:23,424
Speaker 4: all the time. I just gotta constantly, I gotta throw

1391
01:09:23,504 --> 01:09:26,424
Speaker 4: hands with the manispheres. It's just all the time, just

1392
01:09:26,544 --> 01:09:27,544
Speaker 4: all the time fighting.

1393
01:09:27,704 --> 01:09:30,504
Speaker 1: Yeah. No, I said this last night, like I feel

1394
01:09:30,504 --> 01:09:32,304
Speaker 1: really lucky that I had three daughters because I can

1395
01:09:32,344 --> 01:09:34,823
Speaker 1: just sort of like give away all the men's state secrets.

1396
01:09:34,824 --> 01:09:36,744
Speaker 2: I can just be like I'm a double agent, like

1397
01:09:37,024 --> 01:09:37,784
Speaker 2: here's what men do.

1398
01:09:38,504 --> 01:09:40,744
Speaker 1: Yeah, Whereas you have to be like, as I said

1399
01:09:40,744 --> 01:09:42,944
Speaker 1: in my daughter one point, the problem with being a

1400
01:09:42,984 --> 01:09:45,384
Speaker 1: boy is that you can be a really good person,

1401
01:09:46,064 --> 01:09:47,544
Speaker 1: but at some point you're gonna be in a room

1402
01:09:47,544 --> 01:09:51,943
Speaker 1: with a bunch of bad boys and you're gonna feel pressure.

1403
01:09:52,584 --> 01:09:55,584
Speaker 1: Even if you're totally like sweetheart teddy Bear, you're gonna

1404
01:09:55,584 --> 01:09:58,704
Speaker 1: feel pressure to sort of like be one of them,

1405
01:09:59,184 --> 01:10:00,704
Speaker 1: or you're gonna go to them for counsel and they're

1406
01:10:00,704 --> 01:10:01,824
Speaker 1: gonna tell you the wrong thing.

1407
01:10:01,984 --> 01:10:06,224
Speaker 4: Yeah, and and and with the way social media is,

1408
01:10:06,264 --> 01:10:07,264
Speaker 4: of course, yeah.

1409
01:10:07,344 --> 01:10:09,504
Speaker 1: They don't. They don't have to be asking, they're just

1410
01:10:09,664 --> 01:10:12,904
Speaker 1: not Andrew Hates just showing up all the time, Yeah,

1411
01:10:13,024 --> 01:10:15,224
Speaker 1: just with some with some unsolicited Like my son.

1412
01:10:15,064 --> 01:10:18,504
Speaker 4: Has been exposed to Andrew Tate for like seven years,

1413
01:10:19,504 --> 01:10:22,664
Speaker 4: you know, like and and I'm like, he's not even

1414
01:10:22,704 --> 01:10:25,064
Speaker 4: the one I'm really worried about, Like I'm I'm more

1415
01:10:25,104 --> 01:10:27,464
Speaker 4: worried about the ones where it's like I can tell

1416
01:10:28,064 --> 01:10:30,823
Speaker 4: that it's like that, but it's not as immediately as parent.

1417
01:10:30,944 --> 01:10:34,544
Speaker 1: Yes, it's not as obvious, you know that like that.

1418
01:10:34,304 --> 01:10:38,184
Speaker 4: That those are the the values informing the takes. And

1419
01:10:38,184 --> 01:10:41,384
Speaker 4: I got to be like, hey, hey, but yeah, that

1420
01:10:41,504 --> 01:10:43,264
Speaker 4: guy he hates women.

1421
01:10:44,704 --> 01:10:47,264
Speaker 2: I have to say that a lot. Yeah, he's on

1422
01:10:47,304 --> 01:10:49,144
Speaker 2: the internet. Yeah, good for you for saying that.

1423
01:10:49,184 --> 01:10:52,824
Speaker 1: You gotta say it. He hates women, hate swimming, hate women. Yeah,

1424
01:10:53,104 --> 01:10:56,304
Speaker 1: like everything that he just said he translated, Yeah, I

1425
01:10:56,424 --> 01:10:58,304
Speaker 1: don't like women. And then and then there's this weird

1426
01:10:58,344 --> 01:11:00,584
Speaker 1: thing about like I understand, I mean I feel like this,

1427
01:11:00,824 --> 01:11:04,784
Speaker 1: like I understand that you're watching it for this, like

1428
01:11:05,144 --> 01:11:08,504
Speaker 1: maybe he's talking about hip hop, but also he hates swimming. Right,

1429
01:11:08,744 --> 01:11:10,984
Speaker 1: so just if you need to separate out the hip

1430
01:11:11,784 --> 01:11:15,024
Speaker 1: or the football top or the NBA talk, but understanding,

1431
01:11:15,264 --> 01:11:16,304
Speaker 1: leave the hate, don't take.

1432
01:11:16,224 --> 01:11:16,544
Speaker 2: All of it.

1433
01:11:16,864 --> 01:11:19,504
Speaker 4: Yeah, and you know, he plays me a lot of

1434
01:11:19,824 --> 01:11:21,944
Speaker 4: artists that he likes, because you know, the hip hop

1435
01:11:22,024 --> 01:11:23,904
Speaker 4: he's into its very hit different than the hip hop.

1436
01:11:23,984 --> 01:11:25,224
Speaker 1: That's wonder I'm into.

1437
01:11:26,424 --> 01:11:27,624
Speaker 2: And he liked the hip hop he's into.

1438
01:11:27,744 --> 01:11:29,864
Speaker 1: I like some of it, and I can appreciate a

1439
01:11:29,904 --> 01:11:31,464
Speaker 1: lot of it even if I don't like it. What

1440
01:11:31,584 --> 01:11:32,544
Speaker 1: kind of hip hop does he like?

1441
01:11:32,664 --> 01:11:36,584
Speaker 4: I mean, it's it's funny because it is called underground

1442
01:11:36,664 --> 01:11:38,984
Speaker 4: hip hop, but it's got nothing to do. It's not

1443
01:11:39,064 --> 01:11:39,704
Speaker 4: your underground.

1444
01:11:39,744 --> 01:11:42,224
Speaker 1: It's not nothing. It's not underground. As a kid, it's

1445
01:11:42,264 --> 01:11:43,064
Speaker 1: not my underground.

1446
01:11:43,144 --> 01:11:47,384
Speaker 2: Now, son, I'm in the underground. I would know if it's.

1447
01:11:47,904 --> 01:11:47,944
Speaker 3: No.

1448
01:11:48,104 --> 01:11:49,904
Speaker 2: I don't see that guy any of the underground hip

1449
01:11:49,904 --> 01:11:50,424
Speaker 2: hop meetings.

1450
01:11:50,784 --> 01:11:53,424
Speaker 4: No, this is a whole new crop that does a

1451
01:11:53,544 --> 01:11:56,464
Speaker 4: whole different sound. It is way it's kind of way out,

1452
01:11:56,464 --> 01:11:57,984
Speaker 4: but that's what I appreciate about it is that it's

1453
01:11:58,024 --> 01:12:01,104
Speaker 4: way out, but it's like way out through a hood lens.

1454
01:12:01,304 --> 01:12:04,104
Speaker 4: It's it's really different kind of stuff. But you know,

1455
01:12:04,344 --> 01:12:06,944
Speaker 4: he asked me my opinion of these artists a lot,

1456
01:12:06,984 --> 01:12:09,704
Speaker 4: and I always have to tell him, Like this guy, right,

1457
01:12:10,064 --> 01:12:12,264
Speaker 4: I like, I like what he does. I think his

1458
01:12:12,384 --> 01:12:14,504
Speaker 4: flow is interesting. I think his approach is cool. I

1459
01:12:14,504 --> 01:12:17,823
Speaker 4: think he's a good songwriter. Yeah, but he hates women.

1460
01:12:18,184 --> 01:12:20,824
Speaker 1: But he hates women like I don't know if you

1461
01:12:20,864 --> 01:12:23,864
Speaker 1: can hear this, he actually hates with me, you know,

1462
01:12:24,064 --> 01:12:24,664
Speaker 1: And and so.

1463
01:12:26,544 --> 01:12:28,664
Speaker 4: You know, we we We have tough conversations like that

1464
01:12:28,784 --> 01:12:31,544
Speaker 4: a lot. But yeah, I gotta you know, I gotta,

1465
01:12:31,624 --> 01:12:32,823
Speaker 4: I gotta fight the manisphere.

1466
01:12:32,864 --> 01:12:34,184
Speaker 1: That's the only way I can do it. My other

1467
01:12:34,344 --> 01:12:36,624
Speaker 1: liberated to the manisphere because I've been affected, my cris

1468
01:12:36,624 --> 01:12:37,264
Speaker 1: been affected by this.

1469
01:12:37,304 --> 01:12:37,664
Speaker 2: Definitely.

1470
01:12:37,864 --> 01:12:40,424
Speaker 1: Have you been affected by the trumpification of the like

1471
01:12:40,664 --> 01:12:43,104
Speaker 1: just the industry and the trumplification of like And I

1472
01:12:43,144 --> 01:12:46,304
Speaker 1: don't mean as a human like the DEI like, you

1473
01:12:46,344 --> 01:12:48,024
Speaker 1: know what I mean, sort of like the sort of

1474
01:12:48,104 --> 01:12:50,424
Speaker 1: the like we're not interested in blackness in the way

1475
01:12:50,464 --> 01:12:53,024
Speaker 1: that we used to pretend to be. And so there's

1476
01:12:53,064 --> 01:12:55,544
Speaker 1: a time when New Negroes is being green white. New

1477
01:12:55,624 --> 01:12:58,104
Speaker 1: Negroes is not getting greenlit now. But you know, so

1478
01:12:58,304 --> 01:13:00,384
Speaker 1: like are you have you been does that affect you

1479
01:13:00,464 --> 01:13:04,784
Speaker 1: in the music industry? And not really Okay, there's you.

1480
01:13:04,824 --> 01:13:10,184
Speaker 4: Know, anybody who's talking about buying me as a performer,

1481
01:13:10,464 --> 01:13:13,983
Speaker 4: as a you know, as a as a musician anything

1482
01:13:14,144 --> 01:13:19,784
Speaker 4: like they know what I bring and it's it's it

1483
01:13:19,864 --> 01:13:21,784
Speaker 4: would be very different if I was trying to sell

1484
01:13:21,824 --> 01:13:24,264
Speaker 4: a TV show now, it would be very different. But

1485
01:13:24,424 --> 01:13:26,344
Speaker 4: that's a that's a corporate buyer, and I don't usually

1486
01:13:26,384 --> 01:13:28,744
Speaker 4: deal with I don't have to deal with you actively.

1487
01:13:28,504 --> 01:13:29,824
Speaker 2: Are not dealing with the corporate buyers.

1488
01:13:29,824 --> 01:13:31,424
Speaker 1: See, I still am like every now and again, like

1489
01:13:31,784 --> 01:13:34,584
Speaker 1: because I also because I direct documentaries, I get I

1490
01:13:34,624 --> 01:13:36,864
Speaker 1: get sort of put before the corporate buyers and in

1491
01:13:36,944 --> 01:13:40,384
Speaker 1: those ways have to be like, hey, which I you know,

1492
01:13:40,664 --> 01:13:43,184
Speaker 1: to me, that's like almost the equivalent of getting a

1493
01:13:43,264 --> 01:13:45,624
Speaker 1: day job, like of like I will direct this thing

1494
01:13:46,504 --> 01:13:48,064
Speaker 1: and I'll put my I'll try to put my spin

1495
01:13:48,144 --> 01:13:50,144
Speaker 1: on it, but this but it's you know, and I'll

1496
01:13:50,384 --> 01:13:51,704
Speaker 1: try to enjoy the work, but it's.

1497
01:13:51,544 --> 01:13:56,184
Speaker 4: Not necessarily your top ten most interested in personally topics.

1498
01:13:55,984 --> 01:13:57,944
Speaker 1: Not things that I would do left to my own device.

1499
01:13:58,264 --> 01:14:00,544
Speaker 1: Like this podcast is me being like I want something

1500
01:14:00,584 --> 01:14:03,024
Speaker 1: that's for me. I want something that's like I couldn't

1501
01:14:03,704 --> 01:14:05,184
Speaker 1: I could probably call you and be like, let's talk

1502
01:14:05,224 --> 01:14:07,104
Speaker 1: for an hour, but that'd be weird, you know, I

1503
01:14:07,104 --> 01:14:10,064
Speaker 1: wouldn't hate it. Yeah no, yeah, but I mean maybe

1504
01:14:10,104 --> 01:14:12,184
Speaker 1: we can do it now. But I really this podcast

1505
01:14:12,304 --> 01:14:14,704
Speaker 1: is about me saying like I want to have conversations people.

1506
01:14:14,704 --> 01:14:16,024
Speaker 1: I want to talk about it and talk to people

1507
01:14:16,024 --> 01:14:18,664
Speaker 1: about things I wanted to talk to them about in

1508
01:14:18,744 --> 01:14:20,064
Speaker 1: a way that is like I'm just going to talk

1509
01:14:20,064 --> 01:14:21,624
Speaker 1: to you about this thing. You know, so in a

1510
01:14:21,664 --> 01:14:23,384
Speaker 1: way that like being able to phone get back to

1511
01:14:23,424 --> 01:14:26,864
Speaker 1: your indie struggle might be weird. I'm very curious what

1512
01:14:26,984 --> 01:14:28,744
Speaker 1: you and Ted dance and talked about.

1513
01:14:30,264 --> 01:14:31,024
Speaker 2: Talk about afterwards.

1514
01:14:31,064 --> 01:14:33,184
Speaker 1: I hope, I hope it's not the same. It's the

1515
01:14:33,304 --> 01:14:35,584
Speaker 1: exact same conversation. That would be really weird.

1516
01:14:35,664 --> 01:14:38,424
Speaker 2: Now it's not. It's but they're all related to blackness.

1517
01:14:39,584 --> 01:14:41,184
Speaker 2: So a couple of fun questions.

1518
01:14:41,224 --> 01:14:43,264
Speaker 1: Then we'll get to the it's all fun, but anyway,

1519
01:14:43,344 --> 01:14:45,704
Speaker 1: just want I just want to know I've had moments

1520
01:14:45,784 --> 01:14:47,144
Speaker 1: like this, and I want to know what is it

1521
01:14:47,264 --> 01:14:50,704
Speaker 1: like when when somebody like James Gun is like this, like,

1522
01:14:50,784 --> 01:14:53,784
Speaker 1: did you have any connection to James Gun? So James

1523
01:14:53,864 --> 01:14:56,344
Speaker 1: Gun director of like I guess he's in charge of

1524
01:14:56,424 --> 01:15:00,104
Speaker 1: DC Movies now and was also director of many Marvel movies.

1525
01:15:00,424 --> 01:15:01,944
Speaker 1: Just it was like, this is what I'm listening to

1526
01:15:02,024 --> 01:15:04,424
Speaker 1: as I write Superman, Yeah, and you were on the

1527
01:15:04,584 --> 01:15:05,584
Speaker 1: this is what I listened to the.

1528
01:15:05,624 --> 01:15:08,744
Speaker 4: Playlist put out his I don't know why James Gun

1529
01:15:08,864 --> 01:15:10,584
Speaker 4: is sitting around listening to indie rap.

1530
01:15:10,664 --> 01:15:16,064
Speaker 1: I don't know why. I had heard whispers of that

1531
01:15:16,184 --> 01:15:16,903
Speaker 1: and I guess.

1532
01:15:16,744 --> 01:15:21,184
Speaker 4: His brother, Sean Gunn Yeah, is a real big Indie fan,

1533
01:15:21,504 --> 01:15:24,704
Speaker 4: Anie Rap fans who. So you know, I'm not sure

1534
01:15:24,744 --> 01:15:27,104
Speaker 4: how the flow is going to who thisss a hold

1535
01:15:27,184 --> 01:15:30,264
Speaker 4: or what first or whatever, but I had no idea

1536
01:15:30,384 --> 01:15:31,944
Speaker 4: something like that was coming down the pint, and it

1537
01:15:32,024 --> 01:15:33,584
Speaker 4: was amazing. I feel like there was a time in

1538
01:15:33,624 --> 01:15:39,104
Speaker 4: my career when that used to happen more. Yeah, you know,

1539
01:15:39,184 --> 01:15:42,864
Speaker 4: I think my work was newer on the scene, so

1540
01:15:43,104 --> 01:15:45,744
Speaker 4: more people we were discovering it, I guess at the time,

1541
01:15:45,784 --> 01:15:47,624
Speaker 4: and so I hadn't had nothing like that happened in

1542
01:15:47,704 --> 01:15:49,544
Speaker 4: a minute, So I thought that was real cool.

1543
01:15:49,784 --> 01:15:54,904
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're like, oh, like people people, my

1544
01:15:54,984 --> 01:15:59,464
Speaker 1: work's out there, right, Okay, I can be liked by

1545
01:15:59,544 --> 01:16:03,864
Speaker 1: people who were in the mainstream. Uh do you remember

1546
01:16:03,944 --> 01:16:07,864
Speaker 1: doing my podcast? You remember this? Do you? Was this

1547
01:16:07,944 --> 01:16:11,344
Speaker 1: during to you by us? I believe so, yes, I don't.

1548
01:16:11,544 --> 01:16:13,744
Speaker 4: Yeah, wow, yeah we listened to We went to a

1549
01:16:13,984 --> 01:16:19,903
Speaker 4: restaurant I believe in Berkeley, and I was after totally biased.

1550
01:16:20,144 --> 01:16:22,184
Speaker 4: We didn't even have I didn't even have microphones. I

1551
01:16:22,304 --> 01:16:23,984
Speaker 4: just had like a tape recorder on the table, I

1552
01:16:24,024 --> 01:16:27,144
Speaker 4: don't remember, and you heard everybody conversation in a room,

1553
01:16:27,184 --> 01:16:29,304
Speaker 4: including nods wow is.

1554
01:16:29,304 --> 01:16:30,224
Speaker 1: That still up somewhere?

1555
01:16:30,864 --> 01:16:31,344
Speaker 2: Probably?

1556
01:16:32,224 --> 01:16:36,744
Speaker 1: Wow, It's funny if you ask, I'm like it was

1557
01:16:36,744 --> 01:16:38,224
Speaker 1: so maybe it was after I moved back to Berkeley.

1558
01:16:38,264 --> 01:16:39,984
Speaker 1: There was like about a three or four year period

1559
01:16:39,984 --> 01:16:42,744
Speaker 1: where I was like, like it was the totally bias.

1560
01:16:43,144 --> 01:16:46,024
Speaker 1: It was like I felt like that period was like

1561
01:16:46,184 --> 01:16:47,944
Speaker 1: that period of my life was like the end of

1562
01:16:47,984 --> 01:16:50,904
Speaker 1: a Vietnam War movie where the survivors are just like

1563
01:16:53,104 --> 01:16:54,864
Speaker 1: and it took me a while to climb out and

1564
01:16:54,904 --> 01:16:57,984
Speaker 1: sort of like resettle into myself for a couple of years.

1565
01:16:58,384 --> 01:17:00,104
Speaker 1: Because also it was like I thought I was gonna

1566
01:17:00,104 --> 01:17:01,264
Speaker 1: have this show where I thought I was gonna have

1567
01:17:01,264 --> 01:17:02,664
Speaker 1: the show for twenty years, and then I had it

1568
01:17:02,704 --> 01:17:04,664
Speaker 1: for a year and then something I had to go

1569
01:17:04,824 --> 01:17:07,104
Speaker 1: like again, I think you said, like, oh my twenty

1570
01:17:07,144 --> 01:17:09,224
Speaker 1: twenty four is not doing what I thought I was

1571
01:17:09,264 --> 01:17:11,864
Speaker 1: gonna do. And my wife's pregnant with our second kid,

1572
01:17:12,624 --> 01:17:14,864
Speaker 1: so that's like a real like this is the It's

1573
01:17:14,904 --> 01:17:16,544
Speaker 1: funny you say that, because right now is the closest

1574
01:17:16,544 --> 01:17:18,184
Speaker 1: I've ever felt to that, just because it's like it's

1575
01:17:18,344 --> 01:17:21,704
Speaker 1: I feel like it's all on me, nobody's out there like,

1576
01:17:21,984 --> 01:17:24,224
Speaker 1: like you said, nobody's no emails coming in and going.

1577
01:17:24,824 --> 01:17:28,944
Speaker 1: We found like two million dollars. It has your name

1578
01:17:29,024 --> 01:17:31,064
Speaker 1: on it, so just just want to get it to you.

1579
01:17:31,104 --> 01:17:34,184
Speaker 1: Just send us the VENMO. That's not gonna happen. So

1580
01:17:34,544 --> 01:17:38,384
Speaker 1: my kingdom for two million exactly. So Wow, that's things.

1581
01:17:38,464 --> 01:17:40,264
Speaker 2: That's a that took me. That took me back to

1582
01:17:40,304 --> 01:17:42,863
Speaker 2: a thing I don't remember, but I have like fleeting

1583
01:17:42,984 --> 01:17:44,464
Speaker 2: memories of but it's not.

1584
01:17:44,704 --> 01:17:46,344
Speaker 1: Well you you were, you were, You were doing me

1585
01:17:46,424 --> 01:17:49,144
Speaker 1: a great kindness and that's why I bring it up. Okay,

1586
01:17:49,264 --> 01:17:51,744
Speaker 1: well great kindness. Well I was happy to do it

1587
01:17:51,784 --> 01:17:53,224
Speaker 1: then I'm happy to do it now. I feel honored

1588
01:17:53,224 --> 01:17:55,624
Speaker 1: that you sat down with me. Uh. Two things before

1589
01:17:55,664 --> 01:18:00,064
Speaker 1: we leave. One, give me the mic the open Mic

1590
01:18:00,104 --> 01:18:03,344
Speaker 1: Eagle starter kit. The five songs that you would tell

1591
01:18:03,424 --> 01:18:07,024
Speaker 1: somebody if they're like, let's hey, what's this? Like, I

1592
01:18:07,584 --> 01:18:09,064
Speaker 1: think I'm ready to get it into open Mike Eagle.

1593
01:18:09,104 --> 01:18:12,304
Speaker 1: What are the five five of my song your songs? Yeah,

1594
01:18:13,664 --> 01:18:19,504
Speaker 1: dishes off of my second album, Rappers Die Natural Causes, uh,

1595
01:18:20,784 --> 01:18:23,744
Speaker 1: Ziggy Starfish because that's the song people like the most.

1596
01:18:23,904 --> 01:18:24,704
Speaker 2: Okay, it's good, it's good.

1597
01:18:24,944 --> 01:18:26,104
Speaker 1: Now you want to put the hit in there. You

1598
01:18:26,184 --> 01:18:34,664
Speaker 1: want to put give them the hit. Yeah, happy Wasteland day.

1599
01:18:35,744 --> 01:18:41,304
Speaker 1: To give people a sense of my uh social commentary. Uh,

1600
01:18:42,264 --> 01:18:48,664
Speaker 1: I'd say, okay, but I'm the phone screen to give

1601
01:18:48,704 --> 01:18:54,224
Speaker 1: people a sense of how fascinated I am with the mundane. Okay,

1602
01:18:57,024 --> 01:19:00,904
Speaker 1: one more, one more would be I think I would go,

1603
01:19:03,384 --> 01:19:09,304
Speaker 1: oh man, that's tough. One more.

1604
01:19:10,064 --> 01:19:17,344
Speaker 4: I'm gonna a dark comedy late show because I'm I'm

1605
01:19:18,224 --> 01:19:21,304
Speaker 4: I'm doing self deprecation, I'm doing social commentary, but I'm

1606
01:19:21,344 --> 01:19:22,544
Speaker 4: also just killing you a bar.

1607
01:19:23,824 --> 01:19:25,224
Speaker 1: Killing you today.

1608
01:19:25,904 --> 01:19:27,904
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, good we need It's funny.

1609
01:19:27,904 --> 01:19:30,104
Speaker 1: Even for those titles I think you you you, sort

1610
01:19:30,104 --> 01:19:32,784
Speaker 1: of you go to sort of you exude all black,

1611
01:19:34,024 --> 01:19:39,584
Speaker 1: Indie black. None of those were like uh Maserati on

1612
01:19:39,744 --> 01:19:43,344
Speaker 1: my YACHTI like, none of those were like yeah, none

1613
01:19:43,384 --> 01:19:47,224
Speaker 1: of those were like bullet holes for my soul, you know, no, no,

1614
01:19:47,424 --> 01:19:51,624
Speaker 1: no bottle service, no bottles. And then is there a

1615
01:19:51,784 --> 01:19:54,024
Speaker 1: lesson from your life or something that you think about

1616
01:19:54,064 --> 01:19:55,664
Speaker 1: that you're like, this is like a thing to get

1617
01:19:55,744 --> 01:19:57,464
Speaker 1: you through or a thing that you feel like it's true,

1618
01:19:57,944 --> 01:19:59,544
Speaker 1: like sort of a thing that you like think about

1619
01:19:59,584 --> 01:20:01,824
Speaker 1: like or sort of things of things that are like

1620
01:20:01,984 --> 01:20:03,864
Speaker 1: that you sort of like this is a this helps

1621
01:20:03,904 --> 01:20:04,744
Speaker 1: to find who I am.

1622
01:20:04,864 --> 01:20:07,624
Speaker 2: To me, I just you know, I I.

1623
01:20:12,064 --> 01:20:13,784
Speaker 1: What's the word I do?

1624
01:20:14,064 --> 01:20:18,943
Speaker 4: I have this deep, deep sense of gratitude for everything

1625
01:20:19,024 --> 01:20:21,344
Speaker 4: that I've been able to do, and a lot of

1626
01:20:21,384 --> 01:20:25,944
Speaker 4: it really goes back to like, I've.

1627
01:20:25,984 --> 01:20:30,824
Speaker 1: Done things that I dreamed of doing when I was

1628
01:20:30,944 --> 01:20:37,344
Speaker 1: fifteen or sixteen years old, dreamed of And you know,

1629
01:20:38,144 --> 01:20:41,984
Speaker 1: the big lesson for me is that you know, whether

1630
01:20:42,024 --> 01:20:43,944
Speaker 1: it's twenty twenty four and I got no money left

1631
01:20:43,984 --> 01:20:46,584
Speaker 1: and I'm trying to get a job or I'm I'm

1632
01:20:46,664 --> 01:20:48,944
Speaker 1: hustling the way I'm hustling right now, or if it's

1633
01:20:49,984 --> 01:20:56,264
Speaker 1: twenty there was a time in twenty eighteen when the

1634
01:20:56,344 --> 01:21:02,664
Speaker 1: New Negroes was on TV and being actively marketed. In

1635
01:21:02,744 --> 01:21:05,624
Speaker 1: the house I was living at the time, when I

1636
01:21:05,864 --> 01:21:10,504
Speaker 1: opened my bedroom window, there was a billboard with my

1637
01:21:10,704 --> 01:21:14,984
Speaker 1: face on it right on the next block that I

1638
01:21:15,024 --> 01:21:21,384
Speaker 1: could see through my bedroom window, and I just I never,

1639
01:21:21,784 --> 01:21:24,264
Speaker 1: like the worst of times, I never lose sight of

1640
01:21:24,464 --> 01:21:31,544
Speaker 1: of the the improbable things. M h. I've been able

1641
01:21:31,704 --> 01:21:33,664
Speaker 1: I've been able to do, and I just I just

1642
01:21:33,744 --> 01:21:36,864
Speaker 1: hold on to that gratitude a lot that gratitude is

1643
01:21:36,944 --> 01:21:39,584
Speaker 1: a big thing for me with my kids, like we

1644
01:21:39,664 --> 01:21:42,104
Speaker 1: talk about because I feel like the life they're living,

1645
01:21:42,344 --> 01:21:44,064
Speaker 1: they're sort of things that are happening because they sort

1646
01:21:44,064 --> 01:21:45,904
Speaker 1: of were born after my career started happening that they're

1647
01:21:45,904 --> 01:21:47,544
Speaker 1: sort of like, oh yeah, we just sort of like

1648
01:21:47,784 --> 01:21:49,664
Speaker 1: and so very early on I was like, I'm happy

1649
01:21:49,744 --> 01:21:52,024
Speaker 1: that they have this great life, that they're getting to

1650
01:21:52,104 --> 01:21:54,424
Speaker 1: do these things and meet people and like, but also

1651
01:21:54,464 --> 01:21:56,264
Speaker 1: I want you to be grateful. So at the end

1652
01:21:56,264 --> 01:21:58,144
Speaker 1: of the night, I would say when they were young,

1653
01:21:58,264 --> 01:22:00,104
Speaker 1: I still do with my youngest, tell me three things

1654
01:22:00,104 --> 01:22:01,384
Speaker 1: you're grateful for from today.

1655
01:22:01,584 --> 01:22:03,824
Speaker 2: Yes, this is the way to sort of reminds me like,

1656
01:22:04,344 --> 01:22:05,903
Speaker 2: this is not all supposed to happen.

1657
01:22:05,664 --> 01:22:07,504
Speaker 1: For really, and it seemsy to take it for granted,

1658
01:22:07,504 --> 01:22:09,784
Speaker 1: like you said, when they're born into it. Yeah, Like

1659
01:22:09,984 --> 01:22:12,304
Speaker 1: when I was jally biased, my oldest daughter was one

1660
01:22:12,864 --> 01:22:15,264
Speaker 1: and she's like, I have a picture somewhere of her

1661
01:22:15,344 --> 01:22:19,864
Speaker 1: and her little friend blowing bubbles with don Cheedle. I

1662
01:22:19,904 --> 01:22:23,544
Speaker 1: don't know that being on my show, but I have

1663
01:22:23,664 --> 01:22:26,304
Speaker 1: this picture of her blowing Yeah, no photo, and it's

1664
01:22:26,384 --> 01:22:28,944
Speaker 1: like one day you're looking at me like what Wow,

1665
01:22:29,264 --> 01:22:32,464
Speaker 1: you know, and so gratitude. That is a great lesson.

1666
01:22:32,504 --> 01:22:32,664
Speaker 2: Man.

1667
01:22:32,744 --> 01:22:34,464
Speaker 1: I'm so happy that we were able to sit down

1668
01:22:34,544 --> 01:22:36,784
Speaker 1: and talk. And I really do feel like we were

1669
01:22:36,784 --> 01:22:39,264
Speaker 1: sort of of a kind and not like that. I

1670
01:22:39,304 --> 01:22:41,144
Speaker 1: think that like I would not be the rapper you

1671
01:22:41,224 --> 01:22:42,584
Speaker 1: were if I was a rapper. But that's how I

1672
01:22:42,624 --> 01:22:44,784
Speaker 1: explained it to my wife. You know, me, you and

1673
01:22:44,864 --> 01:22:49,144
Speaker 1: quest Love. Oh yeah, all the same guy. It's a different,

1674
01:22:49,184 --> 01:22:51,984
Speaker 1: different shuffle. The last thing I asked you from homework,

1675
01:22:52,024 --> 01:22:53,664
Speaker 1: what is a cause that you want people to know

1676
01:22:53,704 --> 01:22:56,504
Speaker 1: more about her, pay attention to or support. I would

1677
01:22:56,624 --> 01:23:00,344
Speaker 1: love people if they're able to to support the Inglewood

1678
01:23:00,824 --> 01:23:05,184
Speaker 1: Mutual Aid Fund. There you go. I've tasked myself with

1679
01:23:05,464 --> 01:23:08,904
Speaker 1: with getting more involved in the in the mutual aid.

1680
01:23:08,944 --> 01:23:12,184
Speaker 1: It's a local to me, especially.

1681
01:23:12,664 --> 01:23:15,304
Speaker 4: Coming out of the pandemic, coming out of the fires,

1682
01:23:15,424 --> 01:23:18,064
Speaker 4: coming you know, just with with all into Trump, Yeah,

1683
01:23:18,224 --> 01:23:20,224
Speaker 4: coming into Trump especially.

1684
01:23:21,904 --> 01:23:22,104
Speaker 1: You know.

1685
01:23:23,904 --> 01:23:24,064
Speaker 2: I do.

1686
01:23:24,304 --> 01:23:27,744
Speaker 1: I do a podcast called past Do Uh. That podcast

1687
01:23:27,864 --> 01:23:30,144
Speaker 1: is where earlier we were, you know, we were lightweight,

1688
01:23:30,184 --> 01:23:32,504
Speaker 1: getting into numbers. We really talked members because.

1689
01:23:32,544 --> 01:23:34,904
Speaker 4: Like the whole podcast is about how tough it is

1690
01:23:34,984 --> 01:23:40,624
Speaker 4: to navigate this current economy as creatives and you know,

1691
01:23:40,744 --> 01:23:42,744
Speaker 4: one thing that just comes up over and over again

1692
01:23:42,784 --> 01:23:46,344
Speaker 4: in these conversations is how important it is that we're active.

1693
01:23:46,104 --> 01:23:49,544
Speaker 1: In the communities that we live around. And you know,

1694
01:23:50,184 --> 01:23:54,704
Speaker 1: the community I live in is Anglewood, and you know

1695
01:23:54,824 --> 01:23:57,384
Speaker 1: that's that's the mutual ay that I would love people

1696
01:23:57,504 --> 01:24:00,424
Speaker 1: to support again. And so I just talked to my

1697
01:24:00,544 --> 01:24:03,104
Speaker 1: previous podcast guests. We talked about mutual aid and I

1698
01:24:03,224 --> 01:24:06,144
Speaker 1: was introducing it to him as like mutually He was like,

1699
01:24:06,184 --> 01:24:07,784
Speaker 1: what is that? And so to hear you then shout

1700
01:24:07,784 --> 01:24:09,424
Speaker 1: that out, I'm going to send that link to him,

1701
01:24:09,984 --> 01:24:12,064
Speaker 1: just sort of like because I think mutual aid is

1702
01:24:12,424 --> 01:24:15,384
Speaker 1: if America is going to survive. Mutual aid is how

1703
01:24:15,464 --> 01:24:16,904
Speaker 1: we're gonna is one of the ways we're gonna be

1704
01:24:16,904 --> 01:24:18,624
Speaker 1: able to survive. The only way we can is to

1705
01:24:18,864 --> 01:24:21,944
Speaker 1: is to help each other out and just put the

1706
01:24:22,384 --> 01:24:25,184
Speaker 1: resources and money or goods directly in the hands of

1707
01:24:25,224 --> 01:24:31,704
Speaker 1: people who need them without navigating through traditional foundational institutional

1708
01:24:31,824 --> 01:24:35,104
Speaker 1: grifters grifterscripts like let me, let me get a taste,

1709
01:24:35,144 --> 01:24:37,064
Speaker 1: let me for you before you give the before you

1710
01:24:37,144 --> 01:24:38,384
Speaker 1: give her that blanket. I'm gonna need to have a

1711
01:24:38,424 --> 01:24:40,624
Speaker 1: blanket corner.

1712
01:24:40,704 --> 01:24:44,344
Speaker 2: The blanket all right man the last So you're with me? Yeah,

1713
01:24:44,544 --> 01:24:46,224
Speaker 2: all right, I knew you were. Thanks brother.

1714
01:24:48,344 --> 01:24:50,184
Speaker 1: I don't know why I ended that way because felt

1715
01:24:50,184 --> 01:24:52,744
Speaker 1: like we need enough way to end it. We can

1716
01:24:52,824 --> 01:24:54,624
Speaker 1: leave this in with me awkwardly feeling bad about the

1717
01:24:54,624 --> 01:25:00,464
Speaker 1: fist bump. Thank you for listening to my interview with

1718
01:25:00,664 --> 01:25:03,464
Speaker 1: open Mic Eagle conversation why to say interview. Thank you

1719
01:25:03,544 --> 01:25:07,704
Speaker 1: for listening again. O Mike eagles new album, Doom comes

1720
01:25:07,744 --> 01:25:10,504
Speaker 1: out August thirteenth. His last album is out now from

1721
01:25:10,624 --> 01:25:13,344
Speaker 1: last year, Neighborhood Gods Unlimited. He can't be stopped. His

1722
01:25:13,504 --> 01:25:16,544
Speaker 1: podcast is past due. You can watch them stream on Twitch.

1723
01:25:16,864 --> 01:25:21,144
Speaker 1: You can also see he puts clips up on YouTube

1724
01:25:21,944 --> 01:25:23,584
Speaker 1: and he's just a good dude. So check out open

1725
01:25:23,584 --> 01:25:27,704
Speaker 1: Mike Eagle and open Mic Eagle shouted out Inglewood Mutual Aid.

1726
01:25:27,784 --> 01:25:30,504
Speaker 1: You can find them best on Instagram. Go on Instagram

1727
01:25:30,664 --> 01:25:33,944
Speaker 1: at Inglewood Mutual Aid. You can find them there and

1728
01:25:34,184 --> 01:25:36,224
Speaker 1: support mutual Aid. It's the one that we're going to

1729
01:25:36,304 --> 01:25:39,664
Speaker 1: save the universe, I think is through putting money in

1730
01:25:39,824 --> 01:25:42,024
Speaker 1: the hands of people who need it or putting resources

1731
01:25:42,064 --> 01:25:43,224
Speaker 1: in the hands of the people who need it. So

1732
01:25:43,744 --> 01:25:46,424
Speaker 1: Inglewood Mutual Aid. Even if you don't live in Inglewood,

1733
01:25:46,504 --> 01:25:49,863
Speaker 1: you can help people there. Thank you to Rabagrant Productions

1734
01:25:49,864 --> 01:25:53,264
Speaker 1: for helping me produce this. Thank you to Pushkin Industries

1735
01:25:53,344 --> 01:25:56,064
Speaker 1: for letting me host the podcast on their site on

1736
01:25:56,144 --> 01:25:59,144
Speaker 1: their network, and also thank you to who knows Best.

1737
01:25:58,944 --> 01:26:01,904
Speaker 2: Production, which is me and my wife. But you haven't

1738
01:26:01,904 --> 01:26:04,224
Speaker 2: seen her yet, so me yeah.

1739
01:26:04,304 --> 01:26:07,224
Speaker 1: And also shout out to Chris Dowd from Fishbone for

1740
01:26:07,344 --> 01:26:10,104
Speaker 1: the theme song. Check out the Who's with Me substack,

1741
01:26:10,144 --> 01:26:11,863
Speaker 1: which is the best place to keep up with everything

1742
01:26:12,104 --> 01:26:16,344
Speaker 1: against Santum Comedy dates September twenty fifth and twenty sixth, Stanford, Connecticut,

1743
01:26:16,624 --> 01:26:23,024
Speaker 1: October first, Stanford University, and November thirteenth, Bellingham, Washington. Thank

1744
01:26:23,064 --> 01:26:25,544
Speaker 1: you for tuning in and let's say what this week?

1745
01:26:25,544 --> 01:26:29,144
Speaker 1: Why don't you do something good for yourself, for your neighborhood,

1746
01:26:29,424 --> 01:26:31,784
Speaker 1: for your community, and you know, for the world.

1747
01:26:32,464 --> 01:26:32,784
Speaker 2: Thanks