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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. I don't come to

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Speaker 1: stephan would never told you protection iHeart idea. And it's

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Speaker 1: already February. Can you believe in Samantha your favorite month?

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Speaker 1: To say? I hate? I hate it so much. It

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Speaker 1: is a complicated one. It is, uh, well, time is

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Speaker 1: flying by. In my opinion. We try to as we

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Speaker 1: always say, you know, we try to focus on highlights,

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Speaker 1: um wind with color, marginalized communities all year round. That's

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Speaker 1: like a very important part to our whole mission, the

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Speaker 1: whole podcast. But it is Black History Month, so we

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Speaker 1: thought we would. I think this is kind of a

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Speaker 1: tradition now where we bring back, uh some classics that

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Speaker 1: Eve's brought on for Female First. Um, some amazing women

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Speaker 1: who often don't get enough attention or spolight and have

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Speaker 1: like fascinating stories. Um yes, yes, and this first one

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Speaker 1: I remember this episode. It was about the mistress of

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Speaker 1: modern magic. Yes, so please enjoy this classic episode. Hey,

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Speaker 1: this is Annie and Samantha. I'm welcome to stuff I've

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Speaker 1: never told you production of I Heart Radio. It is

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Speaker 1: time for another episode of Female First, which means we

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Speaker 1: are once again joined by our good friend and colleague Eves. Hello, Eves. Hey,

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Speaker 1: Hey y'all. I oh, We're so happy to have you.

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Speaker 1: As always. We did have some technical difficulties this morning,

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Speaker 1: but I'm supposed to be a professional. But the fact

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Speaker 1: that you caught it before we were in the middle

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Speaker 1: of recording, yeah, I knew. That's where I don't know

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Speaker 1: until after the fact. That's what I was afraid of.

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Speaker 1: I was like, oh, God, like, if if this all,

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Speaker 1: if this all falls apart in the middle of the episode,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to be so sad because I feel like

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Speaker 1: losing content, like losing anything you recorded or anything you

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Speaker 1: have saved. It's just it's the waist feeling in the world. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and I've done that twice now. When I first started

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Speaker 1: on stuff, I never told you as the producer, I

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Speaker 1: was so nervous because again I had like no training

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Speaker 1: for that job, and they taught me, but I was

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Speaker 1: just like, I'm a nervous soul anyway. And then they're like, okay,

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Speaker 1: record this podcast, and I forgot to press record and

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Speaker 1: I realized like ten minutes in. But it took me

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Speaker 1: like two minutes before I got the courage to stop them,

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Speaker 1: and I lied and I said something like Oh it

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Speaker 1: was a technical man, but I definitely just forgot there

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Speaker 1: is what I'm trying to say. Yes, I'll be there. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So I did want to ask you all in relation

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Speaker 1: to this episode and what we're gonna be talking about today,

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Speaker 1: were either of you ever into magic? Do you have

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Speaker 1: any tricks? Alice Semanthic Semanthew, I had a couple of tricks,

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Speaker 1: and both of them were very amateur at best. And

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to give away my tricks. When we

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Speaker 1: see to the face to face, I might actually be

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Speaker 1: able to do something I can't remember. I think one

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Speaker 1: of them was done by my brother taught me one

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Speaker 1: of them, and the other one just happened because I

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Speaker 1: had the equipment for it. But it's very specific and

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Speaker 1: I'm very good entertainer, so I was able to, like,

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Speaker 1: you know, pull it off as a child. So I'm

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Speaker 1: pretty sure half of it was adults just be nice

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Speaker 1: and pretending like they don't know what I'm doing. But

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Speaker 1: I felt like I was a success. Wow, I have

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Speaker 1: so many follow up questions to that very vague for it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: what does that mean? You can't tell you can't tell

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Speaker 1: your tricks? If I tell you the equipment that I

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Speaker 1: have for then you know, come on so much more.

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Speaker 1: Great magician never never gives away. M Wow. Okay, well

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Speaker 1: I would definitely love to see a semanthemic magic show

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Speaker 1: once Quarantine it's over. Yeah, yeah, I feel like we

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Speaker 1: should just we should put on a magic show. You

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Speaker 1: would understand my magic second. It would be a thirty

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Speaker 1: second extravaganza. You look away, you just missed the whole thing.

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Speaker 1: I'm about to doing it again. It was amazing. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I have none, I have no, I've never Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: was never into magic. Um, I read about magic, but

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Speaker 1: that was the farthest it went growing up. The magic

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Speaker 1: that I'm going to claim is that my birthday is

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Speaker 1: the same as Harry Houdini's, which I must have some

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Speaker 1: legacy in the that is Mars twenty four magic in

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Speaker 1: whatever kind of universal universal situation is happening on Mars.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, other than that, I just know there there

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Speaker 1: is no magic, no magic talent here for me. Wait. Wait,

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Speaker 1: that Houdini was like an escape artist, right, Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: we're gonna need you to learn an escape trick of

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Speaker 1: some sort. Yeah. Well, I will say I've just been

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Speaker 1: watching a lot of Arrested Development because of Jessica Walter's death,

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Speaker 1: and I was like, oh, I'm gonna I want to

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Speaker 1: see this. Did not age? Well, just just put that

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Speaker 1: out there. Um, but I do love Joe's magic stuff

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Speaker 1: all the time. I'm like, that's about right, that's about

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Speaker 1: how I would do it, too awful. Yeah, well, happy

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Speaker 1: belated birthday. Yeah yeah. My little brother was really into

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Speaker 1: magic and magic tricks, although I can't recall any of them,

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Speaker 1: so I must not have been very impressed. I have

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Speaker 1: one card trick I can do, but it kind of

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Speaker 1: takes a minute, so I feel like people get bored

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Speaker 1: during it. It's not the best trick, but I can

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Speaker 1: do it. And then I have it's not really a

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Speaker 1: magic trick at all, but I can do that thing

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Speaker 1: where you like make fire in your hand with a lighter. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I have anything with fire fantastic. Black people who have

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Speaker 1: known me for a long time will tell you that's

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Speaker 1: probably the worst trick. I'm very clumsy and accident form

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Speaker 1: and I should not be messing with fire. But so

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Speaker 1: you're like, where you set people on fire and or

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Speaker 1: just put a lot of fluid on people. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I have accidentally set a trash can on fire. Once. Um,

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Speaker 1: So anyway, we're talking about someone who had much more

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Speaker 1: success than any of us today. Who did you ring

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Speaker 1: for as Eves Ellen e er Strong today? And that's

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Speaker 1: the reason we're talking about magic, because we're talking about

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Speaker 1: a magician, and she came from a family of magicians too.

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Speaker 1: So as always, like the first are a very weird

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Speaker 1: thing and there I'm sure there are a lot of

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Speaker 1: undocumented like magical arts performers that are happening, but like

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Speaker 1: the first that we're going for today is that she

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Speaker 1: was the first and only black woman of her time

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Speaker 1: to run an independent during magic show. So there are

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Speaker 1: a lot of caveats in there, but I think it's

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Speaker 1: just good to think about this quote unquote first as

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Speaker 1: just like she was one of the very few people

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Speaker 1: at the time who was a black woman who was

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Speaker 1: performing magic, and she had her own show in which

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Speaker 1: she toured around the United States. Yeah, we were very excited,

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Speaker 1: uh a magic show. I'm sorry to disappoint in that regard.

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Speaker 1: Maybe I should learn something and bring it back to you.

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Speaker 1: I'll te one of my tricks. Okay, I only have

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Speaker 1: to alright, alright, I'll take that, but no, yeah, I

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Speaker 1: really magic, really excites me too, like a fit earlier.

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Speaker 1: I'm like into fantasy and into reading about magic and

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Speaker 1: and things like that, and I think just I'm into

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Speaker 1: the occult and all of the things that have to

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Speaker 1: do with illusion and things like that are really cool

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Speaker 1: to me too. So I'm excited about Lennie Armstrong too.

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Speaker 1: And there have been some people who have, you know,

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Speaker 1: talked about her and her biography, but there's not a

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Speaker 1: whole heck of a lot out there about Ellennie Armstrong

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Speaker 1: and the specifics in the details of her story. But

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Speaker 1: there have been a bunch of newspaper stories about them

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Speaker 1: performing in different locations around the United States, mainly on

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Speaker 1: the East Coast. And yeah, we'll get into that a

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Speaker 1: little bit, and a little bit about the just not

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Speaker 1: too much, but a little bit about the magician, the

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Speaker 1: background of black magicians in the United States, and of

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Speaker 1: her family's magic. Yeah, I mean family of magicians. I

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Speaker 1: saw already, like I'm in and this needs to be

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Speaker 1: a book series. So shall we get to her history? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: let's do it. So family of magicians, including her father.

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Speaker 1: Her father was a pretty noted magician, and there were

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Speaker 1: magicians early on the eighteen hundreds in the early nineteen hundreds.

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Speaker 1: Of course, there is a very rich history of the

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Speaker 1: performing arts and vaudeville and those kind of circuits in

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Speaker 1: the United States back in those days, and black performers

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Speaker 1: were often a part of that. There were traveling circuses

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Speaker 1: in the US that included performances by magicians, and there

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Speaker 1: were other names back in the day of some early

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Speaker 1: black magicians, such as people like Richard Potter, who was

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Speaker 1: considered the first black American magician and may have even

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Speaker 1: been the first American born magician of any race according

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Speaker 1: to documentation for the United States History. But yeah, there

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Speaker 1: are magic and traveling shows were a part of of

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Speaker 1: U S history at that time. And Ellen herself, she

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Speaker 1: was born in nineteen fourteen, but she came from this

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Speaker 1: family of black American magicians. Her father was John Hartford

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Speaker 1: Armstrong and he was born in South Carolina around eighteen

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Speaker 1: eighty six. He was probably a mixed race. This is

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Speaker 1: kind of I guess I should tell a little bit

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Speaker 1: about my like interest in ELLENI Armstrong in the first place,

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Speaker 1: because I was trying to have a list of people

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Speaker 1: who I keep running to do for for the female

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Speaker 1: first series and was like thinking of doing another person,

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Speaker 1: and then I was like, hmm, I don't know. I

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Speaker 1: kind of wanted a bit more information on her. And

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Speaker 1: I was waiting for a book to come in, and

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Speaker 1: I was looking around my house and I was like,

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Speaker 1: wait a second, I have a poster. I have a

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Speaker 1: Broadside of ellen E. Armstrong on the wall in my

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Speaker 1: living room. And I was like, wait, why don't I

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Speaker 1: just do Ellenie Armstrong? Like, I know there's not a

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Speaker 1: ton of documentation out there on her, but obviously I

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Speaker 1: knew that we would love a magician, like we haven't

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Speaker 1: done a magician before. Yes, we haven't done a magician before.

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Speaker 1: And magic is really fun, Like it's really lighthearted, you know,

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Speaker 1: like it's I think it's a really cool practice. And

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Speaker 1: also it was just, you know, wanted to dig back

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Speaker 1: into her history and learn a little bit more about her.

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Speaker 1: And the other part of that, it's a really cool broadside.

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Speaker 1: You know. I think posters from back in the day,

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Speaker 1: and we'll talk about some of those posters and what

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Speaker 1: they said on them a little bit later on in

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Speaker 1: the episode are really cool. So I was drawn to

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Speaker 1: her when I found the broad Side. So I was

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Speaker 1: just like, Okay, I had to get this and I've

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Speaker 1: had it for several years now. But the other connection

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Speaker 1: there was that her family lived in South Carolina and

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Speaker 1: I'm from South Carolina Columbia specifically, so Spartanburg and Columbia

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Speaker 1: are things that come up in her history. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's that's like where I came from. Why I felt

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Speaker 1: this connection to ELLENI Armstrong in the beginning. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: moving on with her story, her father learned magic and

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Speaker 1: toward the American South Um. He dubbed himself the King

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Speaker 1: of Colored Conjurors, which is we all love a good alliteration.

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Speaker 1: More alliteration is going to come in here later. But

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Speaker 1: he and his brother also performed magic. They build themselves

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Speaker 1: as the Armstrong Brothers, and they performed at black churches

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Speaker 1: in schools in North and South Carolina. And John would

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Speaker 1: include black history and his magic at too, so things

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Speaker 1: like including the story of Frederick Douglas in one of

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Speaker 1: his acts. So blackness and black history were things that

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Speaker 1: came up in their actual acts. You know, of course

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Speaker 1: they lived their lives as black people, but that was

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Speaker 1: also something that came up in their acts that they

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Speaker 1: tied into them. And his wife, his first wife, Mabel White,

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Speaker 1: joined the act as an assistant. She died years later,

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Speaker 1: but he remarried to Lily Armstrong, and she was a

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Speaker 1: musician and she would help with the Armstrong shows. So

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Speaker 1: she joined the family and performing magic. So all the

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Speaker 1: hands of the family were coming in and assisting on

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Speaker 1: the shows, and the shows were doing really well. Of course,

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Speaker 1: there weren't a bunch of black American magicians at the time,

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Speaker 1: but there's a description of the Armstrong family in one

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Speaker 1: of the papers in the collection at the South Caroliniana

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Speaker 1: Library at the University of South Carolina. It says that

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Speaker 1: they were one of a handful of black magic of

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Speaker 1: this era and likely were the only ones to have

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Speaker 1: an international reputation um and it said that they performed

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Speaker 1: along the Atlantic seaboard from Philadelphia to Key West, in Cuba,

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Speaker 1: and in Europe from eighty nine to at least in

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Speaker 1: nineteen thirties. So, of course some of that time is

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Speaker 1: before Ellenie Armstrong herself was born, but she was born

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Speaker 1: into this family that was already doing touring of magic acts.

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Speaker 1: So some of the acts that they performed were things

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Speaker 1: like mind reading, sleight of hand, changing water to wine,

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Speaker 1: it said, card tricks, and changing an egg into a chick.

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Speaker 1: So those are some of the things. And when you're

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Speaker 1: taking chick, you're talking about a chicken, right, yes, Just

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Speaker 1: so I know, I'm just thinking, I feel like the

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Speaker 1: modern day. Uh, this reminded me. I saw this magic

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Speaker 1: show and I was an Indian and I'm pretty sure

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Speaker 1: something was lost in translation, but I didn't get what

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Speaker 1: was going on. And I was called out to be

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Speaker 1: a volunteer and I just had to pour water out

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Speaker 1: over and over again, and he would say Watcher of India.

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Speaker 1: And it was supposed to be a trick, but I

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Speaker 1: don't get it. I did not get it around Like

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Speaker 1: there's still water in here, I'm not pouring out all

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Speaker 1: the water. Yeah, the context was just lost there. It

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Speaker 1: was lost on me. Wow. If anybody knows what that

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Speaker 1: trick is, has seen that trick before, please let us know.

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Speaker 1: Be curious. It haunts me, that's funny. Yeah. Some of

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Speaker 1: the places where they performed were churches, high schools, colleges

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Speaker 1: and so these were family events and they performed for

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Speaker 1: white audiences, for mixed audiences, and auditoriums and theaters and

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Speaker 1: opera houses in other places like that. And there are

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Speaker 1: other newspaper articles and letters talking about Armstrong performances, which

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Speaker 1: you can find online at the collection at the USC.

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Speaker 1: They're digitized. I'll read from some of those just so

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Speaker 1: you can get a sense of like what people were writing,

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Speaker 1: because they're there are a bunch of them, and a

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Speaker 1: bunch of letters of recommendation that people were sending to

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Speaker 1: recommend them and saying they were these great magic performers,

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Speaker 1: very glowing reviews of the things that they did. So

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Speaker 1: here's one from the Florida Centinel. It's called the Armstrong's

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Speaker 1: in Town. It said Professor J. Hartford Armstrong, Hertford the

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Speaker 1: Great and Mrs Armstrong prestigiators, which was a word that

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Speaker 1: I did not know, but it's an old word for

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Speaker 1: contraar and my readers arrived in the city last Wednesday

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Speaker 1: from a splendid trip from Cuba and up the East

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Speaker 1: coast where they held big engagements and mightily pleads the people.

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Speaker 1: So that's one of the glowing reviews, and they're a

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Speaker 1: bunch of them like that. They are pretty much the same.

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Speaker 1: And here's another one about before mints in Tampa, Florida.

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Speaker 1: During the past two weeks, all of Tampa has been

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Speaker 1: unusually entertained in the different churches, halls and school houses.

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Speaker 1: The exercises have been of a high moral nature, and

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Speaker 1: the throngs of people have pronounced them the best ever

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Speaker 1: seen in their lines. And to know that Afro Americans

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Speaker 1: possess such excellent talent, control such large audiences and entertain

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Speaker 1: them until midnight is another proof that the race. The

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Speaker 1: race is successfully competing with other races in the most

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Speaker 1: intelligent pursuits in this world. This has attributed to the

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Speaker 1: Armstrong Brothers. Yeah, you know, magician names, but obviously there's

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Speaker 1: a lot to unpack there, But I do really love

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Speaker 1: magician names, and there's a lot of excellent words used

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Speaker 1: in these glowing reviews of like splendidly and mightily and

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Speaker 1: high moral like interesting, yeah, family fund, it's got like

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Speaker 1: that's what I've seen as some of the magical tricks.

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Speaker 1: And then of course the ones after dark, like they're

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Speaker 1: very specific on who they're targeting. Oh, yeah, that is true,

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Speaker 1: Yes they are. The audiences are very clear and the

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Speaker 1: lines there are delineated pretty strongly. Yeah. I just thought

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Speaker 1: I thought that one was pretty pretty funny, just like

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Speaker 1: how they brought the whole race into it and saying wow,

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Speaker 1: like these look at these model Negroes essentially, I mean

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Speaker 1: it was unusual to see, you know, black people performing

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Speaker 1: magic at the time, and they were a very notable family. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: even today though, I think I don't know much about magic,

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Speaker 1: but there's definitely a few people who just pop in

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Speaker 1: your head, whether it's like the Chris Angel or you know,

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Speaker 1: Sick Graded Roy, David Blade. Yeah, like then they're you

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Speaker 1: rarely see people's color. You definitely don't see women, so

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Speaker 1: it's kind of like, Wow, they were making big headway

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Speaker 1: even for today's standard. Yeah, yeah, that's interesting too, just

301
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Speaker 1: the names you floated there, Like, I don't know much

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Speaker 1: about magic and magicians either, but that, like, apart from

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Speaker 1: say Fried and Roy, I feel like those dudes are

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Speaker 1: real intense, Like it's almost become like a metal like

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Speaker 1: copper Field. Is that a better one? Davidsto's name, Penn

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Speaker 1: teller Old, I don't know, we don't know. Don't talk

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Speaker 1: about copper Field right who you're talking about va, But

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Speaker 1: the point is they're like a very a handful of

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Speaker 1: like household name magicians, but obviously they're also This is

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Speaker 1: not to say that there aren't like a to more

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Speaker 1: people who are working in magic who are very successful. Yes,

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Speaker 1: they're also many more black people and people of color

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Speaker 1: who are also working in magic. So not to to

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Speaker 1: say that just because we don't know their names specifically

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Speaker 1: that they don't exist that I think you know, or

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Speaker 1: that they're not. Oftentimes that is purposeful and it is

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Speaker 1: systemic that there are specific names that we don't know.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, it wasn't like there were black people left

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Speaker 1: and right back in the day who were entire families

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Speaker 1: who were performing entering magic acts. I think is what

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Speaker 1: it really boils down to. But yeah, the occult and

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Speaker 1: spirituality and things like that were often something that was

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Speaker 1: taboo back in that day. So yeah, from another article

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Speaker 1: talking about them coming back to Newport News, the Armstrongs

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Speaker 1: will tickle your shoe strings and make your big toe laugh.

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Speaker 1: They will not pay doctor's bills if you faint from laughter.

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Speaker 1: Was that a saying? Was that an old time you saying?

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Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't really know what tickle your shoestrings.

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Speaker 1: I mean, there's so many things I don't understand about that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but I guess they were funny. I don't know if

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Speaker 1: fainting from laughter was a thing that really happened back

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Speaker 1: in the day, because they said that in some of

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Speaker 1: their copy in the documentation, and I just I get like,

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00:20:00,280 --> 00:20:02,040
Speaker 1: I don't know if that was a thing or if

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00:20:02,119 --> 00:20:05,480
Speaker 1: that was I don't know, women fainting in media was

336
00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:08,520
Speaker 1: a big thing back then for no reason. So I

337
00:20:08,520 --> 00:20:09,879
Speaker 1: don't know if it has anything to do with that.

338
00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:13,960
Speaker 1: But I thought that was interesting too. Yeah, so there's

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00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:16,080
Speaker 1: also another one. Um. I got a couple more here.

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Speaker 1: Here's a quote. Professor Armstrong's work is highly creditable and

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Speaker 1: does not cater to ignorance nor superstition. His feets are

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Speaker 1: all the results of phenomena, which are the results of science.

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Speaker 1: We commend the artists especially because of his endeavor to

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Speaker 1: remove superstition from our people and to have them understand

345
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Speaker 1: that everything which we cannot comprehend at a glance does

346
00:20:40,119 --> 00:20:45,119
Speaker 1: not originate from the Prince of Evil. Professor Armstrong, after

347
00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:49,760
Speaker 1: many years of work and experiment, has evolved some instructive

348
00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:53,600
Speaker 1: data on the existence and identity of the fifth dimension.

349
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Speaker 1: Isn't that great? They're fighting Satan, right. It's so many

350
00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:07,520
Speaker 1: like little little phrases in there that I really like.

351
00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:11,720
Speaker 1: In this quote, the Prince of Evil and I think

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Speaker 1: that the our people thing was was really interesting to me.

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00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:18,840
Speaker 1: That turn of phrase to remove supercisition from our people,

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Speaker 1: which I'm guessing they mean black people by that. And

355
00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:26,480
Speaker 1: also how they wrapped, how they just tried. They just

356
00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:28,480
Speaker 1: tried so hard to make it seem like it was

357
00:21:28,520 --> 00:21:30,840
Speaker 1: something that was so straightforward, so straight down the middle.

358
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Speaker 1: It had nothing to do with anything occult. It wasn't

359
00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:35,680
Speaker 1: anything that was weird, nothing that was woo woo, nothing

360
00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:37,760
Speaker 1: about it. It was all good. But then you end

361
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Speaker 1: with the fifth dimension. It was like all science and

362
00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:47,960
Speaker 1: data and also the fifth dimension. Okay, yeah, but yeah,

363
00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:50,520
Speaker 1: there's there's a lot to unpack there. And then the

364
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Speaker 1: last one is just a letter of recommendation from Bethel

365
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Speaker 1: a m. E. Church in Dalton, Georgia in April of

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Speaker 1: nineteen fourteen, and they said this is to certify that

367
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Speaker 1: the Armstrong Brothers gave one of their high clas entertainments

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Speaker 1: at our church, Bethel AMI last Monday night to a

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Speaker 1: crowded house. To say that they please the audience to

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Speaker 1: the highest degree of satisfaction is put putting it mildly.

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Speaker 1: The people of Dalton, Georgia, representing all classes, were loud

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Speaker 1: in their praises of this very high class entertainment Georgia

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Speaker 1: that is ridiculously progressive of them. M yeah, as that's

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Speaker 1: still one of the areas that I'm always timmant to

375
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Speaker 1: go to myself. Yeah yeah, wow. Yeah. Granted it was

376
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Speaker 1: at a m E church, but yes, yeah, yeah. So

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Speaker 1: that's that's just a sampling of some of the um

378
00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:44,720
Speaker 1: the letters and the articles that were written about them

379
00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:47,000
Speaker 1: and their performances, and there are a bunch more that

380
00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:50,560
Speaker 1: you can go through and read. Yeah. So in that

381
00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:54,000
Speaker 1: collection you can also find portraits of the family, so

382
00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:57,640
Speaker 1: you can see pictures of them, and you can find

383
00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:00,400
Speaker 1: it's like pictures of them in front of their home,

384
00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:05,720
Speaker 1: separate portraits of the different family members. But I think

385
00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:08,600
Speaker 1: it's funny that they mentioned representing all classes in that

386
00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:12,719
Speaker 1: last quote. Their shows would appeal to middle and working

387
00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:16,199
Speaker 1: class Black people, well you know what you can call

388
00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:18,760
Speaker 1: like what you would consider middle class, but who didn't

389
00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:23,000
Speaker 1: care to go to menstrual our vaudeville shows and were

390
00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:27,320
Speaker 1: attracted to that kind of educational spin of the Armstrong shows.

391
00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:34,359
Speaker 1: Some Black American entertainers would. And I think that's like

392
00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:36,399
Speaker 1: the whole class thing is a whole other conversation and

393
00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:38,560
Speaker 1: thinking about who were the types of people who attended

394
00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:41,880
Speaker 1: their shows. But some black American entertainers would pretend not

395
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:43,880
Speaker 1: to be black, and instead I pretend they were forre

396
00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:46,600
Speaker 1: and born to make it in the United States. But yes,

397
00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:50,240
Speaker 1: Ellen herself, that was kind of a long background on

398
00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:53,199
Speaker 1: her family. But I think it's you know, necessary to

399
00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:56,239
Speaker 1: just kind of know where Ellen came from. So she

400
00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:59,200
Speaker 1: grew up in that magic and entertainment realm, and in

401
00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:02,680
Speaker 1: our early she assisted her father with the magic shows.

402
00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:06,160
Speaker 1: She even had her own part of the show doing

403
00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:10,120
Speaker 1: my reading. And by the time that she was a teenager,

404
00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:13,240
Speaker 1: she was doing what was called talk talk, in which

405
00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:17,080
Speaker 1: she drew cartoons on a chalkboard and when wouldn't vite

406
00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:21,240
Speaker 1: audience members up to draw as well. And her father

407
00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:24,199
Speaker 1: died in nineteen thirty nine, and it was at that

408
00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:26,680
Speaker 1: point that she took over his magic show and kept

409
00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:29,840
Speaker 1: it going, and she continued to focus on black churches

410
00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:32,200
Speaker 1: in schools on the East coast of the United States,

411
00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:37,920
Speaker 1: and she was probably the only black female magician touring

412
00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:41,600
Speaker 1: in the US at the time solo. And in the

413
00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:43,840
Speaker 1: early years of her doing the show on her own,

414
00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:46,679
Speaker 1: she was called the Mistress of Modern Magic, which you

415
00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:49,760
Speaker 1: can see on some of her posters, and the posters

416
00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:54,119
Speaker 1: would also describe her acts and coming back to that

417
00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:56,760
Speaker 1: alliteration thing. For some reason, on her posters they seemed

418
00:24:56,760 --> 00:25:00,840
Speaker 1: to really love alliteration, starting with the letter M for

419
00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:03,320
Speaker 1: I don't know why that letter, but for instance, the

420
00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:05,920
Speaker 1: broad said that I have it says and her modern

421
00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:13,399
Speaker 1: Marvelous Matchless Mary making march through mystery Land. I love that.

422
00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:18,480
Speaker 1: You know, M is letter if I'm remembering correct, So

423
00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:24,360
Speaker 1: figuring it out, connecting the dots nothing to do with it,

424
00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:29,240
Speaker 1: but I had to count it out. Wait a second,

425
00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:31,159
Speaker 1: you know, any I feel like you just opened a

426
00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:33,600
Speaker 1: cannon worms, because that's one of those things that conspiracy

427
00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:35,520
Speaker 1: theorists are going to go back and say, wait a second.

428
00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:37,879
Speaker 1: He was trying to figure out he was the fifth

429
00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:41,679
Speaker 1: dimension and the thirteenth letter, and that's going to connect

430
00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:43,680
Speaker 1: these dots and there's something. There has to be something

431
00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:46,040
Speaker 1: deeper going on. It's gonna be a Reddit tread. Yes,

432
00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:49,120
Speaker 1: I've been down that Reddit tread. That's not good. Don't

433
00:25:49,160 --> 00:26:10,720
Speaker 1: go down it. This is why they went from Reddit. Yeah,

434
00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:15,320
Speaker 1: so some of her acts are so called novelties, as

435
00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:20,399
Speaker 1: the posters called them was silken sorcery. I'm not exactly

436
00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:23,360
Speaker 1: sure what what some of these tricks are, but these

437
00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:27,879
Speaker 1: are the names for them. Silken Sorcery, the Miser's Dream,

438
00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:34,160
Speaker 1: the Mysterious Jars of Egypt, and the Puzzling Parasol. Really

439
00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:38,480
Speaker 1: good names they are. And the poster also said that

440
00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:45,120
Speaker 1: she had original chemical, mechanical and electrical magical experiments, and

441
00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:47,640
Speaker 1: as we talked about earlier, kind of like the educational

442
00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:49,480
Speaker 1: spin that it had on it. Some of the other

443
00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:55,600
Speaker 1: words that were used to describe the acts were clean, scientific, educational,

444
00:26:56,280 --> 00:27:03,360
Speaker 1: and amusing. So the imagery and the portrayal of what

445
00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:06,080
Speaker 1: her entertainment acts were were's very like. It seemed like

446
00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:09,240
Speaker 1: a very buttoned up thing. And so we're all the

447
00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:11,840
Speaker 1: letters are recommendations, and the articles the way they described

448
00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:15,560
Speaker 1: here in such a like very neat way, it seems

449
00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:17,960
Speaker 1: like it was very controlled. Like the words that people

450
00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:20,040
Speaker 1: were using to describe them to make sure that they

451
00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:22,800
Speaker 1: were able to perform in more venues and that they

452
00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:25,280
Speaker 1: would appeal to audiences and that they would actually get

453
00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:28,359
Speaker 1: the money, you know, that they needed to get from

454
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:31,560
Speaker 1: these performances because it was a living you know, they

455
00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:34,359
Speaker 1: were being paid for this, so it was important for

456
00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:36,199
Speaker 1: them and for her to be able to continue to

457
00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:38,280
Speaker 1: do that. Right. I find it interesting that they keep

458
00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:40,840
Speaker 1: calling this, I guess, and it is a letter of recommendation,

459
00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:43,400
Speaker 1: essentially having to be like, see this other plus really

460
00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:45,879
Speaker 1: liked us and they approved, Yeah you should too. And

461
00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:48,840
Speaker 1: I find that very like a fascinating way of traveling

462
00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:52,400
Speaker 1: and entertaining. Yeah. Well, I feel like there's an air

463
00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:55,920
Speaker 1: of like kind of being safe. Like see it's educational,

464
00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:59,440
Speaker 1: Like it's not like the occult. It's a very educational

465
00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:03,639
Speaker 1: child only show. It's gonna be good. We we don't

466
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:07,160
Speaker 1: do anything to entertain the evil of darkness. Yeah, no

467
00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:10,919
Speaker 1: Prince of evil to be found in any of these performances.

468
00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:18,560
Speaker 1: So the Times in Democrat newspaper out of Orangeburg, South Carolina,

469
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:22,399
Speaker 1: had a section titled news of Interest to Colored People,

470
00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:26,359
Speaker 1: which is funny to me, is as if only only

471
00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:28,640
Speaker 1: people of color could be interested in things that were

472
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:32,320
Speaker 1: happening about people. This is in February ninety and he

473
00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:35,720
Speaker 1: said Ellen E. Armstrong will present a magical act at

474
00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:39,200
Speaker 1: seven thirty Friday at East Middle School. The act is

475
00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:42,000
Speaker 1: the same as that formerly performed by the original Jay

476
00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:45,160
Speaker 1: Hartford Armstrong at mission will be thirty five cents for adults,

477
00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:49,240
Speaker 1: twenty five for students, in fifteen cents for tots, which

478
00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:51,520
Speaker 1: is what they called children in several instances in some

479
00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:53,960
Speaker 1: of these tots. And I think thirty five cents in

480
00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:56,480
Speaker 1: nineteen fifty that would be about a little less than

481
00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:59,640
Speaker 1: four dollars in today's money. So yeah, she later she

482
00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:02,320
Speaker 1: focus on her talk talk act and would use a

483
00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:04,800
Speaker 1: pad in crayons instead and will let other people come

484
00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:07,520
Speaker 1: up and draw. Still, and she was still she was

485
00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:10,880
Speaker 1: emphasizing her cartooning skills. So you'll see her called an

486
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:15,240
Speaker 1: extraordinary or cartoonists extraordinary or something like that, and the posters.

487
00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:17,680
Speaker 1: So not only was she a magical artist, she was

488
00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:21,480
Speaker 1: also great at drawing and did cartoons. And she retired

489
00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:24,440
Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy and spent her later years in Spartanburg,

490
00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:28,200
Speaker 1: South Carolina, and she died in nineteen seventy nine. But

491
00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:33,360
Speaker 1: I'm not sure of the circumstances of her death. But yeah, Fortunately,

492
00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:36,560
Speaker 1: like I said, you can find some of those digitized

493
00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:40,240
Speaker 1: writings about her online and we still have access to

494
00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:42,920
Speaker 1: pictures of the family and know a little bit about

495
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:45,560
Speaker 1: what their magical acts were, although I wish that there

496
00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:47,800
Speaker 1: was video. I wish that there was video some of

497
00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:50,160
Speaker 1: those acts. That's what I really want. I would love

498
00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:56,720
Speaker 1: to know more about what the actual acts were. Like. Yeah,

499
00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:59,320
Speaker 1: so based on some of the names, I know that

500
00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:03,680
Speaker 1: they were pretty cool. But yeah, the puzzling parasol, that's

501
00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:06,120
Speaker 1: what I want to know, right, You don't want to

502
00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:08,880
Speaker 1: know that Egypt one that seemed cool too. Yeah, that

503
00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:16,640
Speaker 1: one's related to my water of India things saying that's

504
00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:20,360
Speaker 1: that's the backstory that we didn't know that the jar

505
00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:25,120
Speaker 1: you reported from was mysterious Jar of Egypt because the

506
00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:30,440
Speaker 1: water was Indian water. Oh, somebody was I like this?

507
00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:35,480
Speaker 1: Was there any cartoons, especially, like, did they have any

508
00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:38,080
Speaker 1: records or patriots of the cartoons that she had drawn

509
00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:40,280
Speaker 1: at any point in time? I haven't seen any. I

510
00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:43,120
Speaker 1: haven't seen any interested. I would imagine if I think

511
00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:46,320
Speaker 1: some of those people took them home, so I took

512
00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:48,080
Speaker 1: them with them, some of the drawings that were done

513
00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:49,680
Speaker 1: as part of her acts. So I wonder if there

514
00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:52,520
Speaker 1: are any out there that people still have from going

515
00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:55,120
Speaker 1: to one of the shows. But I'm not sure that

516
00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:57,680
Speaker 1: I would love that's that's her beginning of her career

517
00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:00,760
Speaker 1: with her father. I would love to see people obviously

518
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:03,200
Speaker 1: liked it that it carried on. I'd love to see

519
00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:06,880
Speaker 1: her work. Yeah, that would be cool. Like the progression

520
00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:11,200
Speaker 1: of it too, that would be really cool. Well, this

521
00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:16,719
Speaker 1: this has been a delight, so many fun names and

522
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:20,920
Speaker 1: words going on in this one. Is there anything else

523
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:24,640
Speaker 1: you have before we wrap up on this one? No?

524
00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:28,040
Speaker 1: I think that is it. Man, I do wish I

525
00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:30,120
Speaker 1: could just see in her show. I'm wondering what it

526
00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:33,960
Speaker 1: was like. The description makes it so intriguing on how

527
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:36,320
Speaker 1: they're trying to be that fine line of no, we're

528
00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:39,800
Speaker 1: not into devil worshiping, but we do know magic, and

529
00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:43,160
Speaker 1: fifth a moment like just like what is this? And

530
00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:45,480
Speaker 1: then the fact that the entire thing is if laughing

531
00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:47,640
Speaker 1: hearts stay at home like a light that's part of

532
00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:51,840
Speaker 1: their poster, and like wait huh, Like she's not just

533
00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:54,720
Speaker 1: like she's obviously a very much an entertainer. Her family

534
00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:58,760
Speaker 1: was an entertainer. But I don't wonder. No, I wish

535
00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:05,120
Speaker 1: I was one of those shows. I know. Okay, well

536
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:07,720
Speaker 1: we'll get this smimty magic throw together and it's gonna

537
00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:13,720
Speaker 1: be a train wreck entertaining. No, but well, not for us,

538
00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:18,240
Speaker 1: but other people might laugh out terrible it is. That's

539
00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:20,560
Speaker 1: how I get fired because I started to fire at

540
00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:23,920
Speaker 1: the office. Essentially, she just sets herself on fire and

541
00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:26,600
Speaker 1: we see the zoom video and I'm like, well, that

542
00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:31,680
Speaker 1: was a mistake. Never again, I've made a huge mistake.

543
00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:36,440
Speaker 1: Going back to job and his Magic show, Well, I'm excited.

544
00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:40,360
Speaker 1: I'm excited for the possibilities. And thank you so much

545
00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:43,040
Speaker 1: for bringing this story to her attention. Eaves. It was

546
00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:45,640
Speaker 1: a very very fun one. Yes, thanks for having me.

547
00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:49,960
Speaker 1: That was That was fine. It was Where can the

548
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:53,400
Speaker 1: good listeners find you? You can find me on Twitter

549
00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:58,320
Speaker 1: at us Jeff co on Instagram at not Apologizing, And

550
00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:00,760
Speaker 1: also on the show This Day and His Class, which

551
00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:03,760
Speaker 1: is a daily show about history talks about other people

552
00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:07,160
Speaker 1: that did cool things in history, just like Ellenie Armstrong

553
00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:10,520
Speaker 1: and events that happen in history. And also on the

554
00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:14,520
Speaker 1: podcast Unpopular, which is about people in history as well,

555
00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:17,520
Speaker 1: but a little bit different in terms of talking about

556
00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:22,080
Speaker 1: their biographies and what they did in order to disrupt

557
00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:26,120
Speaker 1: systems and were they were often persecuted and it goes

558
00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:31,200
Speaker 1: through those stories. And this also here, I think this

559
00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:35,040
Speaker 1: is okay. Yeah, I feel like we went through this

560
00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:38,080
Speaker 1: Samantha twenty one the last time because I feel like

561
00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:40,000
Speaker 1: in my record keeping, I feel like I've had a

562
00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:48,040
Speaker 1: scripted episodes, so I'm like record keeping, I make it

563
00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:50,400
Speaker 1: sound like it's very serious and important, like I don't

564
00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:54,600
Speaker 1: know a micro fush and like fire safe block containers somewhere.

565
00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:59,800
Speaker 1: But no, it's just my notes app. And but how

566
00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:02,000
Speaker 1: like a skip something in there, so I don't know,

567
00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:05,200
Speaker 1: I'm gonna have to go back in go through. Yeah, yeah,

568
00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:10,120
Speaker 1: we'll have to fact check that it's very important, very important. Yeah,

569
00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:13,480
Speaker 1: there's no way we can ever know slash it's recorded.

570
00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:18,360
Speaker 1: I think I I believe we can get to the

571
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:22,120
Speaker 1: bottom of this, but I actually am if listeners know this.

572
00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:24,200
Speaker 1: But I actually have a really weird thing with numbers,

573
00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:26,919
Speaker 1: so I do want to know so I can keep

574
00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:32,200
Speaker 1: tracking specific important numbered episodes so by next episode will know. Okay,

575
00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:34,760
Speaker 1: we have to also know when to eat the cheesecake.

576
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:42,400
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, we're coming up on that.

577
00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:44,319
Speaker 1: We might have already missed it. We might already be

578
00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:49,399
Speaker 1: too late, because if you're talking about episode doing that,

579
00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:53,000
Speaker 1: we'll figure that. We'll good do smint tea housekeeping and

580
00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:57,239
Speaker 1: figure that out. In the meantime, listeners. If you would

581
00:34:57,239 --> 00:34:59,560
Speaker 1: like to contact us, you can Our email is Stuff Media,

582
00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:01,880
Speaker 1: mom Stuff at iHeartRadio dot com. You can find us

583
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:04,200
Speaker 1: on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast or on Instagram and

584
00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:06,200
Speaker 1: Stuff I've Never Told to You Thanks as always to

585
00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:09,279
Speaker 1: our super producer Christina. Thank you Christina, and thanks to

586
00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:11,360
Speaker 1: you for listening. Stuff I've Never Told You production to

587
00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:13,480
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio. From more podcasts from I Heart Radio,

588
00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:16,160
Speaker 1: visit the iHeart Radio at Baffle podcast or if you

589
00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:17,240
Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows,