1 00:00:06,720 --> 00:00:12,840 Speaker 1: One of the worst mass murders in Indiana history. How 2 00:00:12,880 --> 00:00:17,560 Speaker 1: did an entire family get wiped out in their own 3 00:00:17,640 --> 00:00:22,639 Speaker 1: home in the early morning hours? How does that happen? 4 00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:33,720 Speaker 1: Who've got an open doorway? Can you start two months horss. 5 00:00:35,040 --> 00:00:38,760 Speaker 1: We need e ms at this location. We had three shots, 6 00:00:39,479 --> 00:00:42,120 Speaker 1: all three prefin zero. We need a very confirm and 7 00:00:42,159 --> 00:00:44,520 Speaker 1: I need more cars are at the same next star 8 00:00:44,680 --> 00:00:48,239 Speaker 1: is arriving starting take up around this house. Please, I 9 00:00:48,320 --> 00:00:51,520 Speaker 1: want the perimeter big. You're hearing part of that nine 10 00:00:51,520 --> 00:00:54,640 Speaker 1: one one call guys with me an all star panel 11 00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:57,480 Speaker 1: to make sense of it? First of all? Joining me 12 00:00:57,880 --> 00:01:00,840 Speaker 1: family lawyer or no stranger to the core room. Kathleen 13 00:01:01,000 --> 00:01:05,440 Speaker 1: Murphy at NC Domestic Law dot com, Renowned at New 14 00:01:05,520 --> 00:01:09,280 Speaker 1: York psychologist Karen Stark at Karen Stark dot com. That's 15 00:01:09,360 --> 00:01:14,119 Speaker 1: Karen with a C and Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, 16 00:01:14,360 --> 00:01:18,199 Speaker 1: Death Investigator. All They're a Blood beneath my feet on 17 00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:21,000 Speaker 1: Amazon and Starve. A brand new series on the True 18 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:26,760 Speaker 1: Crime Network, Poisonous Liaisons. Joseph Scott Morgan joining me and 19 00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:30,640 Speaker 1: joining me reporting this morning from Crime Online dot Com 20 00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:34,399 Speaker 1: Crack reporter Tyler Hunt. But before I go to Tyler, 21 00:01:34,520 --> 00:01:36,520 Speaker 1: take a listen to more of that nine one one 22 00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:39,880 Speaker 1: call what can we learn? Start us to animal control? Please, 23 00:01:40,400 --> 00:01:42,440 Speaker 1: we'll just meet in the stage. We have a couple 24 00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:45,200 Speaker 1: areas of residents were unable to check to do a 25 00:01:45,319 --> 00:01:47,560 Speaker 1: dog control. Out of nine, I think to Kah we 26 00:01:47,600 --> 00:01:50,640 Speaker 1: have five victims. Can we confirm that four ten zero? 27 00:01:50,760 --> 00:01:52,600 Speaker 1: Or can you advise for the past stages and for 28 00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:56,480 Speaker 1: PIO I can't confirm yet control corner fourteen that they 29 00:01:56,560 --> 00:02:01,720 Speaker 1: give a conditional that will being transported extremely Chris, extremely critical. 30 00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:04,920 Speaker 1: Did you notice there, Joe Scott Morgan, how the body 31 00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:09,959 Speaker 1: count rose in about thirty seconds. First of all, they 32 00:02:10,040 --> 00:02:15,400 Speaker 1: call in despotch three, three shot dead, then they raise 33 00:02:15,480 --> 00:02:20,120 Speaker 1: it to five. Little did they know that the count 34 00:02:20,280 --> 00:02:25,440 Speaker 1: would be six dead, one in critical condition. Explain Jos 35 00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:28,240 Speaker 1: Goot Morgan, what's happening as this cop is going through 36 00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:31,240 Speaker 1: the home. Everybody, Joe Scott Morgan, death investigator has been 37 00:02:31,280 --> 00:02:35,000 Speaker 1: on many many homicide scenes. Jump in, Joe, Hey, listen, 38 00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:38,080 Speaker 1: Nancy when you heard him say just a few moments ago, 39 00:02:38,600 --> 00:02:41,240 Speaker 1: we want to make this perimeter as big as possible. 40 00:02:41,240 --> 00:02:44,799 Speaker 1: One of our basic ideas here and Cromp Scene investigation 41 00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:47,200 Speaker 1: is that when you get there, you set that perimeter 42 00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:48,800 Speaker 1: out as far as you can go, and then you 43 00:02:48,840 --> 00:02:52,119 Speaker 1: can track it down. They're trying to secure everything at 44 00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:55,280 Speaker 1: this moment in time. What they do know is that 45 00:02:55,400 --> 00:02:59,360 Speaker 1: they have a group of bodies that are located in 46 00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:04,160 Speaker 1: a specific area, all confined to a home. But this 47 00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:07,880 Speaker 1: is going to be literally a bloody mass I've walked 48 00:03:07,880 --> 00:03:10,480 Speaker 1: into many cases like this over the course of my 49 00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:15,840 Speaker 1: career where mass homicide has been committed, and the problem 50 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:18,360 Speaker 1: is is that you get this overload in your brain 51 00:03:18,480 --> 00:03:22,160 Speaker 1: and you don't you have to make sense of this 52 00:03:22,360 --> 00:03:26,160 Speaker 1: horrific scene in the context of what you're seeing, because 53 00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:30,040 Speaker 1: you're talking about huge, huge age ranges. You're looking at 54 00:03:30,040 --> 00:03:34,920 Speaker 1: people that should be vibrant up. I want to take 55 00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:38,000 Speaker 1: in the fact that this is now a mass murder. 56 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:42,640 Speaker 1: In some jurisdictions, mass murder is anything more than one body. 57 00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:47,119 Speaker 1: Apparently in Indiana it's four bodies. Yeah, and it's go ahead, yeah, 58 00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:50,000 Speaker 1: And it's going to be dependent upon what's your department 59 00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:53,320 Speaker 1: it's capable of handling. Because when you use that term 60 00:03:53,600 --> 00:03:59,839 Speaker 1: mass homicide, uh, we're looking at a situation where where 61 00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:03,040 Speaker 1: they can call in extra help. At that point, in time, 62 00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:05,320 Speaker 1: because it's just too much, even in a place like 63 00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:09,880 Speaker 1: Indianapolis that has its shaff cron violent crop. But this 64 00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:11,800 Speaker 1: is going to be something that they have to take 65 00:04:12,720 --> 00:04:15,880 Speaker 1: step by step and be very very careful because Nancy, 66 00:04:16,320 --> 00:04:20,159 Speaker 1: they're going to be bodies potentially huddled together. You're going 67 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:23,640 Speaker 1: to have bodies that are at some great distance from 68 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:25,800 Speaker 1: one of them. Of course, happened at three forty five 69 00:04:25,880 --> 00:04:28,240 Speaker 1: am on a Sunday morning. Some people could have even 70 00:04:28,279 --> 00:04:32,599 Speaker 1: been asleep. Guys, take a listen to Sergeant Shane Foley 71 00:04:33,520 --> 00:04:36,040 Speaker 1: of the individuals. One of the individuals was pregnant and 72 00:04:36,040 --> 00:04:39,520 Speaker 1: transported to an area hospital. Despite the best life saving 73 00:04:39,520 --> 00:04:42,520 Speaker 1: efforts provided by medical staff, both a female and the 74 00:04:42,560 --> 00:04:45,800 Speaker 1: unborn child do not survive. The junile male who was 75 00:04:45,800 --> 00:04:49,159 Speaker 1: shot is expected to survive his injuries. From what we 76 00:04:49,200 --> 00:04:52,160 Speaker 1: know at the very early stages of this investigation, this 77 00:04:52,200 --> 00:04:55,160 Speaker 1: does not appear to be a random act. This is 78 00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:57,919 Speaker 1: a very active investigation. To Texas are still on scene 79 00:04:58,080 --> 00:05:02,160 Speaker 1: campassing the area for witnesses or anyone with information. I've 80 00:05:02,200 --> 00:05:05,000 Speaker 1: taken a long look at the area. To you, Tyler 81 00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:07,960 Speaker 1: Hunt joining me from crime online dot Com. It looks 82 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:11,680 Speaker 1: like a residential area. It's on the east side of Indianapolis. 83 00:05:12,279 --> 00:05:14,840 Speaker 1: It reminds me a lot of where I grew up. 84 00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:19,279 Speaker 1: It's a working class neighborhood. It's a split level brick home, 85 00:05:20,839 --> 00:05:24,440 Speaker 1: lawn of grass in the front and the back tree 86 00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:28,560 Speaker 1: lined on one side. There's a cement driveway that goes 87 00:05:28,680 --> 00:05:32,880 Speaker 1: down under part of the split level into the backyard. 88 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:37,560 Speaker 1: I know that there was a basement because we are learning. 89 00:05:37,640 --> 00:05:40,000 Speaker 1: Correct me if I'm wrong, Tyler, You're more familiar with 90 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:44,159 Speaker 1: the facts than all of us are. That the younger 91 00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:48,120 Speaker 1: brother in the family, about fifteen years old, was downstairs 92 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:54,640 Speaker 1: in the basement when he heard gunfire breakout upstairs, followed 93 00:05:54,680 --> 00:05:59,920 Speaker 1: by the scream of his thirteen year old sister, Rita. 94 00:06:00,560 --> 00:06:06,600 Speaker 1: He's shooting everybody. Let's just start with who are the victims, 95 00:06:06,640 --> 00:06:09,400 Speaker 1: Tyler Hunt, What do we know right now? Well, Nancy, 96 00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:13,400 Speaker 1: the victims are Unfortunately all seemed to be part of 97 00:06:13,440 --> 00:06:17,680 Speaker 1: the same family. There's a father, forty two year old 98 00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:21,960 Speaker 1: Raymond Childs, and the other forty two year old involved, 99 00:06:22,040 --> 00:06:26,719 Speaker 1: Kazi Childs. The eighteen year old Elijah child is the 100 00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:29,960 Speaker 1: son of both parents, and then thirteen year old Rita 101 00:06:30,080 --> 00:06:33,120 Speaker 1: Child's also a daughter of the parents. There's also a 102 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:36,800 Speaker 1: nineteen year old president, Kiera Hawkins, and Kiera also was 103 00:06:36,880 --> 00:06:40,120 Speaker 1: pregnant with a baby boy near a full term baby boy. 104 00:06:40,200 --> 00:06:43,159 Speaker 1: So those are the victims in this case. Now we 105 00:06:43,240 --> 00:06:47,640 Speaker 1: also have a teen boy that lived. To my understanding, 106 00:06:47,760 --> 00:06:51,200 Speaker 1: Tyler Hunt, the teen boy, the fifteen year old that 107 00:06:51,279 --> 00:06:53,320 Speaker 1: was I guess sleeping in the basement. Again, it was 108 00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:57,040 Speaker 1: three forty five am when neighbors heard gunfire breakout. Was 109 00:06:57,120 --> 00:06:59,920 Speaker 1: in the basement. He heard the thirteen year old sister 110 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:04,920 Speaker 1: a Rita upstairs scream out, he's shooting everybody. He runs 111 00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:10,360 Speaker 1: and he is actually chased through the yard and shot 112 00:07:10,920 --> 00:07:13,720 Speaker 1: by the killer. That's what we're learning right now. I'll 113 00:07:13,720 --> 00:07:16,040 Speaker 1: take a listen to this. And we also spoke with 114 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:18,800 Speaker 1: one neighbor out here or she said she knows the family, 115 00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:21,240 Speaker 1: saying they lived there for a few years and she 116 00:07:21,320 --> 00:07:24,400 Speaker 1: actually just gave baby toys to the woman who was pregnant. 117 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:27,280 Speaker 1: It might see him take out them. People out of 118 00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:37,600 Speaker 1: there cannot believe it. I'm oka. I just hope that 119 00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:42,720 Speaker 1: they fan who did this. And for that juvenile that 120 00:07:42,880 --> 00:07:45,560 Speaker 1: was shot and found around the corner, we do know 121 00:07:45,680 --> 00:07:48,120 Speaker 1: that he is expected to survive, which would make him 122 00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:51,800 Speaker 1: the lone survivor of this horrific crime. Police were knocking 123 00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:54,160 Speaker 1: on her door at five am asking if she had 124 00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:57,000 Speaker 1: heard anything. Then they informed the neighbor there was just 125 00:07:57,080 --> 00:08:01,360 Speaker 1: shooting at her neighbor's home. You were just hearing the 126 00:08:01,400 --> 00:08:04,520 Speaker 1: ladies from our friends at wx I N Fox five 127 00:08:13,360 --> 00:08:17,240 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, for those of you 128 00:08:17,320 --> 00:08:21,400 Speaker 1: just joining us, one of the worst mass murders in 129 00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:26,480 Speaker 1: Indiana history. We now know nearly an entire family has 130 00:08:26,520 --> 00:08:31,480 Speaker 1: been wiped out. The child's family that includes Kezzie Childs 131 00:08:31,560 --> 00:08:36,200 Speaker 1: the mother forty two years old, her husband, Raymond Childs Junior, 132 00:08:36,600 --> 00:08:40,040 Speaker 1: the father forty two years old, eighteen year old son, 133 00:08:40,240 --> 00:08:44,840 Speaker 1: Elijah Child's thirteen year old little sister, Rita Childs. A 134 00:08:44,960 --> 00:08:49,840 Speaker 1: friend in the home, Kiara Walkins Hawkins just nineteen. She 135 00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:54,600 Speaker 1: was one month away from giving birth to a baby boy. 136 00:08:54,640 --> 00:08:59,000 Speaker 1: Both she and the baby dead. Then the teen boy 137 00:08:59,040 --> 00:09:00,480 Speaker 1: in the homes I told you that was in the 138 00:09:00,520 --> 00:09:03,520 Speaker 1: basement is in critical condition right now in the hospital. 139 00:09:03,559 --> 00:09:09,199 Speaker 1: Straight out to Kathleen Murphy, veteran trial lawyer in Indianapolis. 140 00:09:09,280 --> 00:09:14,920 Speaker 1: There is a very strong fetal homicide statute. In fact, 141 00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:19,040 Speaker 1: it's so strong that if you kill a fetus. This 142 00:09:19,240 --> 00:09:23,440 Speaker 1: is not including if the mother terminates her pregnancy, you 143 00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:27,560 Speaker 1: get an additional six to twenty years tacked onto your sentence. 144 00:09:27,800 --> 00:09:31,959 Speaker 1: Explain what is a fetal homicide statute, Kathleen Murphy. A 145 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:36,360 Speaker 1: fetal homicide statute, especially in Indiana, is where a child 146 00:09:36,600 --> 00:09:40,360 Speaker 1: can survive outside of the womb, that is considered to 147 00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:44,040 Speaker 1: be a viable person, and that person that has been 148 00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:51,000 Speaker 1: killed while in womb is considered a death that you 149 00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:53,720 Speaker 1: can be charged with. That's right, a separate death. And 150 00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:59,679 Speaker 1: what Kathleen Murphy said is legally critically important. If the 151 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:03,640 Speaker 1: wild is viable and can live outside the womb, then 152 00:10:03,679 --> 00:10:09,000 Speaker 1: it is considered a human. A human. That term is 153 00:10:09,040 --> 00:10:13,000 Speaker 1: important because you have to be a human to be 154 00:10:13,480 --> 00:10:17,960 Speaker 1: a victim of a murder. I know this sounds obvious, 155 00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:22,320 Speaker 1: but under the law is very important. If this fetus 156 00:10:22,480 --> 00:10:26,520 Speaker 1: is viable, it's considered a human and is considered a 157 00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:30,800 Speaker 1: victim to a murder. So the killer will not only 158 00:10:30,880 --> 00:10:35,000 Speaker 1: get the murder charges against the mom, the dad, the brother, 159 00:10:35,080 --> 00:10:38,280 Speaker 1: the sister, the nineteen year old mom, but the baby, 160 00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:41,080 Speaker 1: the unborn baby as well. And that's why it's so 161 00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:44,920 Speaker 1: important that we know this baby was only four weeks 162 00:10:44,920 --> 00:10:49,240 Speaker 1: away from being delivered. I want to go back out 163 00:10:49,280 --> 00:10:53,800 Speaker 1: to you, Tyler Hunt, joining me from crime online dot Com. 164 00:10:55,720 --> 00:10:59,079 Speaker 1: The family all living under one roof. I don't believe 165 00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:01,640 Speaker 1: we have been able to are the connection of Kiara 166 00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:04,160 Speaker 1: Hawkins to the family yet. Do you know has that 167 00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:07,840 Speaker 1: been announced? I have not seen it. I know she 168 00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:11,320 Speaker 1: was obviously in the house of the time. Yes, yes, guys, 169 00:11:11,480 --> 00:11:15,760 Speaker 1: take a listen to our friend now, Sergeant Shane Folly. 170 00:11:16,640 --> 00:11:19,000 Speaker 1: What occurred this morning, based on the evidence that's been 171 00:11:19,040 --> 00:11:24,600 Speaker 1: gathered so far, was a mass murder. More than that, 172 00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:29,080 Speaker 1: we believe it was not random. There are no right 173 00:11:29,160 --> 00:11:34,280 Speaker 1: words to say at this time. I'm myself from heartbroken 174 00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:39,120 Speaker 1: for the lives that have been taken too soon, for 175 00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:42,800 Speaker 1: the young life that forever been changed, and for the 176 00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:46,679 Speaker 1: life that never got a chance to start. For the 177 00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:50,480 Speaker 1: neighborhood left to pick up the pieces in the wake 178 00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:54,720 Speaker 1: of unprecedented violence, and for all of the family and 179 00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:59,320 Speaker 1: friends have been rocked of grief. Straight out to Karen 180 00:11:59,520 --> 00:12:03,280 Speaker 1: start the joining me Karen Stark, renowned psychologists joining us 181 00:12:03,280 --> 00:12:06,280 Speaker 1: out of New York. Karen, I want you to think, 182 00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:08,360 Speaker 1: just for a moment before we continue to delve into 183 00:12:08,360 --> 00:12:10,400 Speaker 1: the crime of the effect this has on a community. 184 00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:13,280 Speaker 1: I mean, Karen, you live in a high rise in Manhattan. 185 00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:16,160 Speaker 1: What if you found out the family next to you, 186 00:12:16,200 --> 00:12:20,920 Speaker 1: the entire family and your high rise was shot dead 187 00:12:21,520 --> 00:12:26,239 Speaker 1: while you're asleep next door. That instills terror. It instills 188 00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:29,520 Speaker 1: terror tremendous feel think about that in the high rise 189 00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:35,360 Speaker 1: or any community, Nancy, where you're assuming this family is okay, 190 00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:39,440 Speaker 1: there are people that knew then we don't know exactly 191 00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:41,800 Speaker 1: why that person was there, who was pregnant, that it 192 00:12:41,800 --> 00:12:44,800 Speaker 1: seems like the mother was about to have a grandchild. 193 00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:48,160 Speaker 1: Old friends, people know each other for a long time, 194 00:12:48,200 --> 00:12:53,400 Speaker 1: and then suddenly the entire family is annihilated. And that's 195 00:12:53,520 --> 00:12:57,439 Speaker 1: a terrible shock, a tragedy, and fear for a community. 196 00:12:57,720 --> 00:13:00,360 Speaker 1: You know. I want to follow up to you just Morgan, 197 00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:03,160 Speaker 1: death investigator on what police said that this is not 198 00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:06,520 Speaker 1: a random attack. Why do they say that the minute 199 00:13:06,559 --> 00:13:08,560 Speaker 1: they walk on the scene they say this is not 200 00:13:08,760 --> 00:13:12,240 Speaker 1: a random attack. Why it all goes to access, Nancy. 201 00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:15,199 Speaker 1: You know, who's going to go in? Who's going to 202 00:13:15,280 --> 00:13:17,560 Speaker 1: go in at I think you had mentioned it's like 203 00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:22,079 Speaker 1: three am roughly. Who's going to go into that environment, 204 00:13:22,440 --> 00:13:26,400 Speaker 1: into a contained environment for people are probably asleep, where 205 00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:31,720 Speaker 1: people are probably sleep completely as you know, completely defenseless 206 00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:34,760 Speaker 1: at that moment time. It's not like they walked into 207 00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:36,880 Speaker 1: a big, crowded a nightclub or they're out on the 208 00:13:36,920 --> 00:13:40,079 Speaker 1: street and they just begin randomly firing. Nancy. This is 209 00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:42,680 Speaker 1: a resident. This is like where we're supposed to feel 210 00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:45,920 Speaker 1: the most safe, right, So automatically the police know that 211 00:13:46,040 --> 00:13:50,000 Speaker 1: something's up. The investigators know someone had to have access 212 00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:53,520 Speaker 1: to not the exterior but the interior of that home 213 00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:56,160 Speaker 1: and walk through and they just brought hell with them. 214 00:13:56,200 --> 00:13:58,000 Speaker 1: I mean, you know what it's telling me and Tyler 215 00:13:58,080 --> 00:14:01,640 Speaker 1: Hunt joining me, a reporter joining us from crime online 216 00:14:01,679 --> 00:14:05,520 Speaker 1: dot Com. We've heard nothing about a forced entry. We've 217 00:14:05,559 --> 00:14:10,400 Speaker 1: heard nothing about windows broken, We've heard nothing about the 218 00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:13,960 Speaker 1: lot on the front door being jimmied in any way. 219 00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:19,080 Speaker 1: So obviously, whoever the shooter was can get into the 220 00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:23,600 Speaker 1: home with a key, was let in because it was 221 00:14:23,640 --> 00:14:27,680 Speaker 1: recognized and I say, hey, he, because typically mass murder 222 00:14:27,800 --> 00:14:32,000 Speaker 1: is conducted by a he or was living in the home. 223 00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:35,120 Speaker 1: So those are the three alternatives. Either the door was opened, 224 00:14:35,320 --> 00:14:37,640 Speaker 1: he was let in, or he lived in the home. 225 00:14:37,920 --> 00:14:41,640 Speaker 1: Also Tyler Hunt, unless you know differently, We've heard no 226 00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:45,120 Speaker 1: suggestion of a rape as a motive, a sex attack, 227 00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:49,440 Speaker 1: or a theft. So what's the point. We've got the 228 00:14:49,440 --> 00:14:52,640 Speaker 1: cops saying this is not random, We've got no forced intry, 229 00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:56,640 Speaker 1: We've got no rape, no theft. So I think jos 230 00:14:56,720 --> 00:15:00,120 Speaker 1: got Morgan is right. This is not random. And and 231 00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:03,240 Speaker 1: I'm asking you, Tyler Hunt, are you familiar with any 232 00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:05,880 Speaker 1: fact suggesting that there was a sex attack or theft? 233 00:15:06,840 --> 00:15:09,280 Speaker 1: There was no There was no theft involved, no sex 234 00:15:09,320 --> 00:15:13,560 Speaker 1: attack involved. It was a connection to the family. Yeah, 235 00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:16,720 Speaker 1: it's got to be. It is not random. We know that. 236 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:21,920 Speaker 1: And even the Indianapolis Mayor, Joe Huccept is weighing in. 237 00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:29,200 Speaker 1: Take a listen. This morning, one or more individuals perpetrated 238 00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:33,720 Speaker 1: an act of evil in our city and says that 239 00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:37,560 Speaker 1: led to this incident. I want to be very clear 240 00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:43,320 Speaker 1: about something. What happened this morning was not an act 241 00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:48,880 Speaker 1: of simple gun violence. As tragic as a simple act 242 00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:54,280 Speaker 1: of gun violence is. What happened this morning was a 243 00:15:54,440 --> 00:16:01,440 Speaker 1: mass murder the choice of an individual or individuals to 244 00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:09,280 Speaker 1: bring and I do not use these words lightly terror 245 00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:25,760 Speaker 1: to our community. Crime stories with Nancy grace those of 246 00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:28,280 Speaker 1: you just joining us. One of the mass murders to 247 00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:32,040 Speaker 1: ever go down in the state of Indiana and Indianapolis 248 00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:35,560 Speaker 1: home under siege after an entire family is wiped out. 249 00:16:36,760 --> 00:16:40,880 Speaker 1: We do know that Indiana is a death penalty state. 250 00:16:41,560 --> 00:16:45,560 Speaker 1: The last person put to death was John Wrinkle and 251 00:16:45,680 --> 00:16:49,040 Speaker 1: that was back in two thousand and nine. But what 252 00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:52,960 Speaker 1: happened Take a listen to our friend Angela Brauer and 253 00:16:53,160 --> 00:16:58,120 Speaker 1: also Nick McGill at CBS four WTTV. Officers responded to 254 00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:01,200 Speaker 1: East thirty six three Sunday morning and initially found a 255 00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:04,960 Speaker 1: teenager shot. Police said he escaped the family's home while 256 00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:08,320 Speaker 1: the killing was happening. He is in critical condition but 257 00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:12,000 Speaker 1: is expected to survive. Officers then went to North Adams Street, 258 00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:15,120 Speaker 1: where that boy lived. That's where they found five people dead. 259 00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:18,560 Speaker 1: The Marion County Corner now confirming. The victims include two 260 00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:22,200 Speaker 1: forty two year old adults, Kezzie and Raymond Childs, eighteen 261 00:17:22,320 --> 00:17:25,800 Speaker 1: year old Elijah Childs, and thirteen year old Rita Childs. 262 00:17:25,840 --> 00:17:29,159 Speaker 1: Also nineteen year old Kiara Hawkins who was pregnant with 263 00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:34,560 Speaker 1: a baby boy, and also from Nicole Griffith at WRTV. 264 00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:37,560 Speaker 1: We have learned the identities of the people's shot and 265 00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:40,640 Speaker 1: killed inside that home in the thirty five hundred block 266 00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:44,159 Speaker 1: of North Adams Street, forty two year old Kezie Childs, 267 00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:47,880 Speaker 1: forty two year old Raymond Childs or eighteen year old 268 00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:52,080 Speaker 1: Elijah Childs, thirteen year old Rita Childs, and nineteen year 269 00:17:52,119 --> 00:17:55,680 Speaker 1: old Kiara Hawkins and her unborn baby boy. The case 270 00:17:55,880 --> 00:17:58,560 Speaker 1: has a community on edge and police are determined to 271 00:17:58,560 --> 00:18:01,840 Speaker 1: catch the person or people responsible. You know, I'm thinking 272 00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:06,280 Speaker 1: about it straight to you, Joe Scott Morgan. The thirteen 273 00:18:06,359 --> 00:18:11,040 Speaker 1: year old little sister, Riata Childs, I think, is the 274 00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:16,960 Speaker 1: one that screamed out he's shooting everybody. Can you imagine? 275 00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:21,760 Speaker 1: Have you ever seen a mass murder like this where 276 00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:25,120 Speaker 1: someone as young as thirteen years old is gunned down, 277 00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:28,920 Speaker 1: and of course with the nineteen year old Kiara Hawkins 278 00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:32,040 Speaker 1: who's eight months pregnant. Yeah, I have. As a matter 279 00:18:32,040 --> 00:18:35,320 Speaker 1: of fact, Nancy, something jumped to mind from the late 280 00:18:35,680 --> 00:18:37,640 Speaker 1: I don't know, I guess it was the late nineties. 281 00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:42,640 Speaker 1: The Adamsville masker in Atlanta, where we had I think 282 00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:45,919 Speaker 1: it was seven killed, very similar to this in a 283 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:48,960 Speaker 1: small It was a smaller home than this home, but 284 00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:53,280 Speaker 1: it was total chaos. Well, I remember going to the 285 00:18:53,320 --> 00:18:56,600 Speaker 1: scene and having we had to work this case in teens, 286 00:18:56,680 --> 00:19:00,560 Speaker 1: to go in and work each individual body as a 287 00:19:00,640 --> 00:19:03,200 Speaker 1: separate you know, as a separate entity, which they are 288 00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:07,480 Speaker 1: as humans. But it's the collective mass killing in this 289 00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:12,320 Speaker 1: environment where you're not just concerned about all of the 290 00:19:12,359 --> 00:19:15,160 Speaker 1: bodies but the individual that's right before you, and you're 291 00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:18,800 Speaker 1: having to walk through blood and I literally mean this. 292 00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:21,119 Speaker 1: This is actually where my memoir, the name of my 293 00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:25,400 Speaker 1: memoir came from, blood beneath my feet because I slid 294 00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:28,639 Speaker 1: down in the blood at that scene. It is a 295 00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:33,560 Speaker 1: horrendous mess. It's all self contained, it's in a single residence. 296 00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:37,479 Speaker 1: It is people think that they understand what horror is. 297 00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:40,360 Speaker 1: They don't know horror until they walk into this environment. 298 00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:43,880 Speaker 1: And to put it in context, fancy. The reason is 299 00:19:43,880 --> 00:19:46,960 Speaker 1: is that we're always having to observe the abnormal in 300 00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:49,760 Speaker 1: the context of the normal. This is a home. This 301 00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:52,159 Speaker 1: is a place where you celebrate Christmas and Easter and 302 00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:56,440 Speaker 1: all these family gatherings, a happy place. This is a 303 00:19:56,520 --> 00:20:00,080 Speaker 1: total health scape. When you walk into this environment, are 304 00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:03,359 Speaker 1: you just joining us? We are talking about the worst 305 00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:07,680 Speaker 1: mass murder scene in years in Indianapolis, right now, take 306 00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:11,080 Speaker 1: a listen to this. Shortly before four am, police found 307 00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:13,800 Speaker 1: a wounded teenager in the thirty three hundred block of 308 00:20:13,920 --> 00:20:17,200 Speaker 1: East thirty sixth Street. When he got to the hospital, 309 00:20:17,359 --> 00:20:21,119 Speaker 1: according to an IMPD report obtained by CBS four News, 310 00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:24,800 Speaker 1: that team told police his brother had killed everyone. When 311 00:20:24,840 --> 00:20:27,880 Speaker 1: police returned to North Adams Street, they found the five 312 00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:30,600 Speaker 1: bodies in the home. The sixth victim was the near 313 00:20:30,680 --> 00:20:34,440 Speaker 1: full term baby boy of nineteen year old Kiera Hawkins, 314 00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:37,879 Speaker 1: who died along with parents Kezie and Raymond Child and 315 00:20:38,040 --> 00:20:42,920 Speaker 1: their children Elijah and Rita all dead. And now we're 316 00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:47,439 Speaker 1: getting the first hint of exactly who may be the sheeter. 317 00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:52,120 Speaker 1: Four am police are on the scene, but first they 318 00:20:52,119 --> 00:20:54,640 Speaker 1: are called Tyler Hunt joining me from crime online dot 319 00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:59,399 Speaker 1: Com to a different home. When they get to that home, 320 00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:03,520 Speaker 1: they fine a fifteen year old boy, shot but alive. 321 00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:07,080 Speaker 1: I understand that that's where they're getting the evidence, that's 322 00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:11,159 Speaker 1: where they're learning more from this eyewitness. Tyler nuts correct. 323 00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:14,240 Speaker 1: So that East thirty sixth Street is where the police 324 00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:17,200 Speaker 1: were called originally of the person shot that was the juvenile, 325 00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:21,160 Speaker 1: the fifteen year old. They were then they spoke to 326 00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:24,720 Speaker 1: the juvenile, who then directed them to his home and 327 00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:28,640 Speaker 1: told them that the brother shot everybody. Then led them 328 00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:31,280 Speaker 1: to that three thirty three hundred block on Adams Street, 329 00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:34,400 Speaker 1: which is the residence that the individuals were found dead. 330 00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:36,359 Speaker 1: So the fifteen year old is the one that was 331 00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:39,320 Speaker 1: running from the home and actually shot as he's trying 332 00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:42,280 Speaker 1: to get away. Take a listen to Russ mcquaite, CBS 333 00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:46,640 Speaker 1: for Indianapolis. According to the IMPD report, the survivor who 334 00:21:46,720 --> 00:21:49,560 Speaker 1: ran for his life said his older brother got in 335 00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:52,480 Speaker 1: trouble for going out Saturday night and when he returned 336 00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:56,080 Speaker 1: home Sunday morning, Raymond Childs told his son they would 337 00:21:56,080 --> 00:21:59,080 Speaker 1: deal with this later. It was sometime later when the 338 00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:02,400 Speaker 1: child said he heard gun shots upstairs and his sister's 339 00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:05,520 Speaker 1: voice yelling that they were being shot. The teen said 340 00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:08,520 Speaker 1: his brother came downstairs where he was with his parents 341 00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:13,400 Speaker 1: and started shooting guys. We are also learning that, according 342 00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:20,360 Speaker 1: to police sources inside the Metro Indianapolis Metro Police Department, 343 00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:26,840 Speaker 1: the IMPD, that a draco gun was used. For those 344 00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:31,080 Speaker 1: of you hopefully not familiar with a draco gun, it 345 00:22:31,119 --> 00:22:36,679 Speaker 1: is often called a baby AK a baby AK forty seven. 346 00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:42,240 Speaker 1: It is a handgun that shoots rifle bullets. It looks 347 00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:46,520 Speaker 1: like an assault rifle without the stock. It looks like 348 00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:50,080 Speaker 1: a Tommy gun of sorts to you. Joe Scott Morgan 349 00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:54,920 Speaker 1: death investigator way in on a Draco gun made very 350 00:22:55,040 --> 00:23:01,399 Speaker 1: popular recently by very famous rappers, including Soldier Boy, whose 351 00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:05,520 Speaker 1: nickname is Draco. He claims it is because of his initials, 352 00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:10,680 Speaker 1: but I disagree. I think it's because of the glorification 353 00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:15,600 Speaker 1: of the Draco gun. It's Romanian import the manufacturers in 354 00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:19,720 Speaker 1: Romania at is manufacturing Draco's in the US. Jump in, 355 00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:23,120 Speaker 1: Joe Scott, you know more about ballistics than I do. Yeah, 356 00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:24,720 Speaker 1: one of the more Just to start off, one of 357 00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:28,240 Speaker 1: the more ominous things about this, Draco literally translates into 358 00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:31,359 Speaker 1: the word dragon. That's where Dracula comes from. It's where 359 00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:36,280 Speaker 1: Draco Malfoy from Harry Potter comes from. That's rather ominous 360 00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:38,600 Speaker 1: when you think about this, and right you are, Nancy. 361 00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:41,760 Speaker 1: This weapon fires a rifle round that's what's called the 362 00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:44,040 Speaker 1: seven point six two by thirty nine. It's the same 363 00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:47,800 Speaker 1: round that AK forty seventh round fire. It's a smaller 364 00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:51,080 Speaker 1: compact version of this. You can hide it beneath your jacket. 365 00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:54,520 Speaker 1: It's larger than what you think of as a standard pistol. 366 00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:57,520 Speaker 1: And Nancy, just to give you a frame of reference here, 367 00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:01,840 Speaker 1: the actual total length of the rifle round itself that's 368 00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:05,760 Speaker 1: being fired is about just over two inches in length, 369 00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:08,040 Speaker 1: whereas if you compare that to like a nine millimeter 370 00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:11,120 Speaker 1: that more people are familiar with, it's only about an 371 00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:14,480 Speaker 1: inch in length. When this weapon would have been fired 372 00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:20,000 Speaker 1: inside of the home, it would have sounded like a thunderclap, 373 00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:24,040 Speaker 1: even more so than a regular handgun. And this is 374 00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:29,200 Speaker 1: a military grade round that is meant to do a 375 00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:33,359 Speaker 1: tremendous amount of destruction. When it hits flesh, it hits bone, 376 00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:37,720 Speaker 1: it rips it to shreds. And so when you heard 377 00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:40,880 Speaker 1: this young girl, this thirteen year old, this poor little angel, 378 00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:43,800 Speaker 1: when she was struck by this round, or she had 379 00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:46,200 Speaker 1: an awareness this what's going to happen, I can almost 380 00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:50,040 Speaker 1: guarantee you that's the last she breathed on this earth. 381 00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:54,200 Speaker 1: It would have been devastating. That's why I am saying 382 00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:57,240 Speaker 1: that this scene would have been a wash in blood. 383 00:24:57,600 --> 00:25:00,919 Speaker 1: Not only that this thing has a capacity. One of 384 00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:03,240 Speaker 1: the magazines, I think the one that comes with has 385 00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:06,000 Speaker 1: a thirty round magazine, So there would have been what 386 00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:09,280 Speaker 1: we call spent brass all over these rooms. So not 387 00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:12,480 Speaker 1: only are you contending with blood and the bodies, you've 388 00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:15,560 Speaker 1: got all of the spent ammunition that's laying around. And 389 00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:18,199 Speaker 1: then it continues on into the yard. As you know, 390 00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:20,760 Speaker 1: as Tyler pointed out, you got this fifteen year old, 391 00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:24,159 Speaker 1: it's leaning for his life. Can you imagine being contained 392 00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:27,720 Speaker 1: inside of this house and hearing these thunderclaps inside? I 393 00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:30,679 Speaker 1: would imagine if they go back in the canvass area, 394 00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:34,760 Speaker 1: it is a high likelihood that even at three am, 395 00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:37,639 Speaker 1: the people that lived immediately adjacent this could not have 396 00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:40,000 Speaker 1: slept through it. They would have heard something. You would 397 00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:43,200 Speaker 1: have add ear witnesses, if you will to this event 398 00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:58,320 Speaker 1: Climb stories with Nancy Grace. Now we are back with 399 00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:01,480 Speaker 1: the latest out of Indianapolis, Indiana or one of the 400 00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:06,160 Speaker 1: worst mass shootings in the state's history has occurred. Yes, 401 00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:09,760 Speaker 1: there have been mass murders there before. Rarely do you 402 00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:13,240 Speaker 1: see an entire family wiped out by use of an 403 00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:18,960 Speaker 1: alleged draco gun. A baby AK forty seven, take a 404 00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:22,800 Speaker 1: listen to this. The seventeen year old, a male arrested 405 00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:25,199 Speaker 1: in this case is a member of the family that 406 00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:27,840 Speaker 1: was found dead inside the home at thirty fifth and 407 00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:30,720 Speaker 1: Adams on the city's east side. Here the details that 408 00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:33,399 Speaker 1: I can confirm at this very hour. The motive for 409 00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:37,160 Speaker 1: the mass shooting still not known. We've learned that police 410 00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:41,719 Speaker 1: did recover a handgun untild. The arrest happened early this morning. 411 00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:45,560 Speaker 1: The team was arrested on two initial criminal charges of 412 00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:49,880 Speaker 1: murder and attempted murder. Those charges will likely change when 413 00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:53,680 Speaker 1: the Marin County Prosecutor's Office actually files charges at some 414 00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:57,080 Speaker 1: point the office. At this point, the prosecutor's office is 415 00:26:57,080 --> 00:27:01,119 Speaker 1: only confirming that impd made and rest not because the 416 00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:04,760 Speaker 1: team is looking at possible murder charges. A state law 417 00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:07,800 Speaker 1: would not require the seventeen year old to undergo a 418 00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:11,680 Speaker 1: traditional waiver hearing from juvenile court to adult court. So 419 00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:15,200 Speaker 1: this team more than likely will face murder charges. As 420 00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:18,760 Speaker 1: an adult, he'll face those charges directly. No charges though, 421 00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:21,520 Speaker 1: have been made or decisions have been made on any 422 00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:26,119 Speaker 1: formal charges. Yes, just yet. Here hearing Raphael Sanchez WRTV 423 00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:30,400 Speaker 1: in Indianapolis, and what he's saying is this, In most jurisdictions, 424 00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:33,920 Speaker 1: there are seven deadly sins. The seven deadlies that apply 425 00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:39,520 Speaker 1: to juveniles. For a juvenile usually to be treated as 426 00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:43,280 Speaker 1: an adult in the adult court system, there is a 427 00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:48,320 Speaker 1: bind overhearing. In other words, the cases transferred over bound 428 00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:53,560 Speaker 1: over from juvenile court to adult felony Superior court. In 429 00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:58,800 Speaker 1: the case of the Seven deadlies, that often it's not required, 430 00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:02,760 Speaker 1: it triggers an immediate treatment as an adult. Those deadlies, 431 00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:08,600 Speaker 1: as I can recall our murder, aggravated sex assault, aggravated 432 00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:17,800 Speaker 1: saw toomy, childless station, aggravated battery, armed robbery cases that 433 00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:23,360 Speaker 1: are of an ILK so YU see violence inflicted on 434 00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:28,600 Speaker 1: the victim. This is one of the seven deadlies. I 435 00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:32,200 Speaker 1: have no doubt Kathleen Murphy, a veteran trial lawyer joining 436 00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:35,600 Speaker 1: me out of North Carolina, that this seventeen year old 437 00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:40,280 Speaker 1: will be treated as an adult. He will not be 438 00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:44,720 Speaker 1: subjected to the death penalty. Under a fairly recent US 439 00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:49,720 Speaker 1: Supreme Court decision, anyone under eighteen in the US, no 440 00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:53,160 Speaker 1: matter how many people they murder, cannot get the death penalty, 441 00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:56,920 Speaker 1: even though Indiana, Indiana is a death penalty state there 442 00:28:57,240 --> 00:29:00,680 Speaker 1: as opposed to many jurisdictions Kathleen Murphy that give life 443 00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:04,280 Speaker 1: behind bars for murder. He's got forty five to sixty 444 00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:09,240 Speaker 1: five years behind bars on murder. But it can run consecutively. Explain, 445 00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:14,200 Speaker 1: consecutively means each and every one of those crimes will 446 00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:17,600 Speaker 1: be served after serving for the first crime, and then 447 00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:20,960 Speaker 1: after the second crime. Concurrent is where they're all served 448 00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:23,960 Speaker 1: at the same time. Suffice it to say, Nancy, this 449 00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:28,320 Speaker 1: child will never see the light of day again. Aver 450 00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:32,520 Speaker 1: I mean he should have been a position to be 451 00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:36,440 Speaker 1: facing high school graduation. Instead, he's facing the rest of 452 00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:41,560 Speaker 1: his life behind bars. If convicted as an adult while 453 00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:46,080 Speaker 1: still a juvenile, he will spend the next few years 454 00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:50,320 Speaker 1: behind bars in a juvenile facility. At age twenty one, 455 00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:54,760 Speaker 1: he will most likely be transferred to an adult facility 456 00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:59,719 Speaker 1: in general population. To Karen Start, NewYork psychologists, you can 457 00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:03,920 Speaker 1: find Karen dot com. It's very hard for me to 458 00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:10,120 Speaker 1: imagine a seventeen year old teen I'm leaving out of 459 00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:14,160 Speaker 1: what looks to be a Tommy gun onto his own family, 460 00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:19,360 Speaker 1: all because the dad reprimanded him for going out without permission. 461 00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:22,880 Speaker 1: But you're not talking about the kinds of seventeen year 462 00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:26,680 Speaker 1: olds that you're exposed to, Nancy. This is somebody who's 463 00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:32,080 Speaker 1: very different. There's some emotional and immediate need that comes 464 00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:35,160 Speaker 1: over somebody like this, And I want you to understand 465 00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:39,040 Speaker 1: that this kind of killing is never spontaneous. And so 466 00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:42,600 Speaker 1: the fact that he had that gun, he planned it. 467 00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:45,920 Speaker 1: He was ready to seek revenge. He didn't matter if 468 00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:49,000 Speaker 1: his father was going to be reprimanding him for being 469 00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:52,400 Speaker 1: out all life or saying you have to be around 470 00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:56,080 Speaker 1: the family more often. This was brewing inside of this boy. 471 00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:58,760 Speaker 1: We don't exactly know why, but this kind of killer 472 00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:03,600 Speaker 1: will place the blame externally on the family and has 473 00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:10,560 Speaker 1: severe problems being able to cope. Now, Karen Start, you 474 00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:14,640 Speaker 1: are not running up the flagpole some type of mental defect, 475 00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:19,800 Speaker 1: because just let me remind you, Karen Start, that the shooter, 476 00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:25,400 Speaker 1: according to cops, then fled the scene. Fled the scene, 477 00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:29,680 Speaker 1: and a neighbor provided information where he could be found 478 00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:33,800 Speaker 1: in a nearby neighborhood where he was found. If you 479 00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:38,440 Speaker 1: have the wherewithal to flee the scene, to me, that 480 00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:42,240 Speaker 1: is evidence of guilt. I mean, would I see a 481 00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:45,320 Speaker 1: cop behind me, I may slow down the car, but 482 00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:47,560 Speaker 1: I don't take off at one hundred mphs to get 483 00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:51,000 Speaker 1: away from the cop. Why would I. When you flee 484 00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:53,680 Speaker 1: the seat of a crime, that's evidence that you know 485 00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:58,000 Speaker 1: you've done something wrong and under our law back me 486 00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:01,360 Speaker 1: up on this, Kathleen Murphy. Our law is governed by 487 00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:04,000 Speaker 1: the old McNaughton rule, which has been brought over to 488 00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:07,600 Speaker 1: our country is common law from Great Britain from England 489 00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:10,560 Speaker 1: that says, if you knew right from wrong at the 490 00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:14,760 Speaker 1: time of the incident, you knew what you were doing. 491 00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:21,560 Speaker 1: Bam Kathleen. Yes, no, bam. Lee shows that you knew 492 00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:25,280 Speaker 1: you were wrong at the time. There is no defense 493 00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:29,840 Speaker 1: that he had a mental defense that would change the 494 00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:32,840 Speaker 1: nature of what he's charged with or sentenced with. And 495 00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:35,760 Speaker 1: I don't want to go to deathcome for into legality. 496 00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:39,960 Speaker 1: But in many jurisdictions across the country, the judge no 497 00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:43,960 Speaker 1: longer instructs the jury as to the law of flight 498 00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:48,880 Speaker 1: as being potential evidence of guilt. However, the prosecutor can 499 00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:51,920 Speaker 1: argue it in closing statements, and of course a jury 500 00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:57,480 Speaker 1: knows that. Guys. Take a listen now to Amanda Sarantino WRTV, 501 00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:02,200 Speaker 1: longtime friends of Kesie Child's, India Hammond and Anastasia Dipman. 502 00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:05,160 Speaker 1: Hammond says she spoke to a surviving son and the 503 00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:08,400 Speaker 1: child's family. She says he and others are trying to 504 00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:15,320 Speaker 1: cope as best they can. Disbelief. I've bean heart focuses. 505 00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:18,680 Speaker 1: I heard it because this doesn't make sense. It's senseless. 506 00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:22,400 Speaker 1: They're good people. I don't know why this took place. 507 00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:27,880 Speaker 1: I don't know what led to it. I'm very sure 508 00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:30,440 Speaker 1: people are going to assume whatever it is that they 509 00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:33,320 Speaker 1: want to assume. But the bottom line is they didn't 510 00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:36,400 Speaker 1: deserve this. They were good people. I know her heart, 511 00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:40,120 Speaker 1: I know how she was raised. She was a good person. 512 00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:44,280 Speaker 1: This was uncalled for. I want to follow up on that, 513 00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:51,480 Speaker 1: because Karen Stark, so often you'll hear very crude assumptions 514 00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:57,600 Speaker 1: made about victims. There is no evidence whatsoever this family 515 00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:03,560 Speaker 1: was anything but upstanding, loving, caring. Not one bad word 516 00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:08,799 Speaker 1: have we heard from neighbors, nothing, not that any of 517 00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:10,640 Speaker 1: them had ever been arrested. Now that this was some 518 00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:15,200 Speaker 1: sort of a drug dan nothing like this, which makes 519 00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:21,800 Speaker 1: it all the more stark and seemingly out of place. 520 00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:25,920 Speaker 1: Karen Stark, There's no doubt about that, Nancy. If you 521 00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:29,279 Speaker 1: hear what people are saying, people who grew up with 522 00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:33,080 Speaker 1: the mother are talking about what a wonderful family it was. 523 00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:36,880 Speaker 1: That has nothing to do with what happened this is 524 00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:41,719 Speaker 1: all because of one member of the family, and there 525 00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:46,200 Speaker 1: is I have to agree with you that this seventeen 526 00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:48,319 Speaker 1: year old knew what he was doing. If you think 527 00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:52,040 Speaker 1: about the fact that when his brother ran away from 528 00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:56,359 Speaker 1: the home, he pursued him and kept on shooting. He 529 00:34:56,520 --> 00:34:59,319 Speaker 1: wanted every single person in that house to be dead. 530 00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:05,200 Speaker 1: Is his issue. The fact that he is blaming whatever 531 00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:08,640 Speaker 1: they were accusing him of on the family, taking it 532 00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:12,239 Speaker 1: out on them having revenge sucks. His family could have 533 00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:16,160 Speaker 1: been absolutely fine. If there is a problem with that 534 00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:24,239 Speaker 1: one child, we wait as justice Unfoalds. Nancy graces crime story, 535 00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:26,000 Speaker 1: signing off goodbye friend.