1 00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:06,760 Speaker 1: Hi everyone. You're listening to next Question with Katie Kuric. 2 00:00:06,760 --> 00:00:09,760 Speaker 1: And no, Katie does not have laryngitis and a kind 3 00:00:09,800 --> 00:00:13,640 Speaker 1: of nasally sick sounding voice. No, Katie is taking one 4 00:00:13,640 --> 00:00:17,040 Speaker 1: more week off after her book tour, and I am 5 00:00:17,079 --> 00:00:20,520 Speaker 1: excited to step in. My name is Brian Goldsmith. I'm 6 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:25,880 Speaker 1: Katie's former producer and actually her one time podcast co host. 7 00:00:26,079 --> 00:00:29,160 Speaker 1: Hi Brian, Hi Katie. Well, I'm very excited about our 8 00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:32,320 Speaker 1: podcast today. Brian. How does this compare to other conventions 9 00:00:32,720 --> 00:00:36,919 Speaker 1: you've witnessed? This is much different. It costs more than 10 00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:42,720 Speaker 1: three hundred million dollars to build this little research beforehand. 11 00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:45,480 Speaker 1: And this is named after Gary Hart. No, Phil Hard, 12 00:00:47,680 --> 00:00:52,120 Speaker 1: long time senator from Michigan. So podcasting isn't really what 13 00:00:52,159 --> 00:00:55,720 Speaker 1: I do anymore. I'm now a media and tech consultant, 14 00:00:55,880 --> 00:00:59,760 Speaker 1: but still a political junkie as obsessed with elections today 15 00:00:59,840 --> 00:01:02,160 Speaker 1: as I was back in two thousand and eight when 16 00:01:02,200 --> 00:01:04,240 Speaker 1: I was lucky enough to be part of the team 17 00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:09,160 Speaker 1: behind Katie's iconic interviews with Sarah Palin. Have you ever 18 00:01:09,240 --> 00:01:13,039 Speaker 1: finished off with any negotiations, for example, with the Russians? 19 00:01:13,360 --> 00:01:15,960 Speaker 1: We have trade missions back and forth. We we do 20 00:01:16,319 --> 00:01:19,960 Speaker 1: It's very important when when you consider even national security 21 00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:24,120 Speaker 1: issues with Russia. As Putin rears his head and comes 22 00:01:24,120 --> 00:01:28,040 Speaker 1: into the airspace of the United States of America, where 23 00:01:28,080 --> 00:01:30,880 Speaker 1: do they go. It's Alaska, It's just right over the border. 24 00:01:32,200 --> 00:01:34,600 Speaker 1: So today Katie asked me to talk about what else 25 00:01:34,680 --> 00:01:37,800 Speaker 1: politics were about to head into a new year, an 26 00:01:37,800 --> 00:01:40,440 Speaker 1: election year, a very big one, and I thought it 27 00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:43,360 Speaker 1: would be helpful to look ahead at the political landscape 28 00:01:43,400 --> 00:01:46,559 Speaker 1: in two Who were going to be the players shaping 29 00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:49,560 Speaker 1: the mid terms, what are the big issues and forces, 30 00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:52,960 Speaker 1: and what are the consequences of the elections next year. 31 00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:56,640 Speaker 1: We're lucky to be joined today by two of the sharpest, 32 00:01:56,800 --> 00:02:00,640 Speaker 1: wittiest politicos I know, two of my favorite tech sting buddies. 33 00:02:00,680 --> 00:02:04,720 Speaker 1: In fact, Republican strategist Mike Murphy, who is kind of 34 00:02:04,760 --> 00:02:08,600 Speaker 1: a defraked Republican strategist these days because he's a Republican 35 00:02:08,639 --> 00:02:11,200 Speaker 1: against Donald Trump, but in the old days he worked 36 00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:15,120 Speaker 1: for John McCain, Met Romney, Arnold Schwarzenegger, and many others. 37 00:02:15,639 --> 00:02:19,560 Speaker 1: And Democratic strategist Liz Smith, who has also been around 38 00:02:19,560 --> 00:02:22,440 Speaker 1: the block politically, although not as many times as Mike, 39 00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:26,320 Speaker 1: whom I actually met when she was the senior communications 40 00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:29,760 Speaker 1: advisor to my pal Pete Boutigg when he was running 41 00:02:29,760 --> 00:02:36,640 Speaker 1: for president. So let's start by talking about the campaign 42 00:02:36,639 --> 00:02:41,079 Speaker 1: next year. What's at stake? Thirty four Senate seats, every 43 00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:46,040 Speaker 1: House seat, thirty six governors races. UM just very simply, 44 00:02:46,360 --> 00:02:48,880 Speaker 1: why did the midterms matter? And and Mike, let's start 45 00:02:48,919 --> 00:02:54,040 Speaker 1: with you. Well, they met her on sort of two dimensions. One, 46 00:02:54,080 --> 00:02:57,840 Speaker 1: they matter because particularly now we're we're an historically thin 47 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:00,360 Speaker 1: margin even in the House, and of course we're hide 48 00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:03,840 Speaker 1: in the Senate. So one party will gain a lot 49 00:03:03,880 --> 00:03:06,440 Speaker 1: of power, my guests, as the Republicans will win the House, 50 00:03:06,840 --> 00:03:09,959 Speaker 1: which gives them the checkbook, which will take the Biden 51 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:13,800 Speaker 1: agenda on domestic policy to a screaming halt on anything 52 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:17,200 Speaker 1: big and budget driven. The other in the Senate, somebody's 53 00:03:17,200 --> 00:03:19,520 Speaker 1: gonna win and somebody is likely to lose. It could 54 00:03:19,639 --> 00:03:22,959 Speaker 1: wind up fifty fifty, which is the facto democratic because 55 00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:27,000 Speaker 1: the VP can cast a tie. But um, it could 56 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:31,320 Speaker 1: deleverage the in my view, heroic moderates like Mansion and 57 00:03:31,400 --> 00:03:34,200 Speaker 1: Cinema if the Dems can run up their number and 58 00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:37,240 Speaker 1: get tighter ideological control. Finally, I'd say the other dimension 59 00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:40,600 Speaker 1: is the narrative is Biden going up or going down. 60 00:03:41,080 --> 00:03:44,280 Speaker 1: It's you know, there's all this bullshit and politics. Everybody 61 00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:47,480 Speaker 1: has an opinion. You can find two different cable TV 62 00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:51,400 Speaker 1: channels or podcasts or whatever. But elections are like the 63 00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:54,640 Speaker 1: Wall Street phrase mark to market. It's the one day 64 00:03:54,680 --> 00:03:56,960 Speaker 1: where the voters get to straighten out all the bs 65 00:03:57,000 --> 00:03:59,000 Speaker 1: and you can see what's really going on out there. 66 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:01,960 Speaker 1: And the midterms are the most important measure like that, 67 00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:04,760 Speaker 1: other than a presidential race. And Liz, do you agree 68 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:08,040 Speaker 1: with Mike that if the Republicans win one or both houses, 69 00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:13,880 Speaker 1: Biden's agenda comes to a screeching halt. Uh. It becomes 70 00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:17,480 Speaker 1: a lot harder to implement. And I agree with him 71 00:04:17,520 --> 00:04:21,200 Speaker 1: about the narrative, right, it becomes a narrative problem for 72 00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:26,000 Speaker 1: Joe Biden. But I would point to the election right, 73 00:04:26,760 --> 00:04:29,080 Speaker 1: Democrats got our asses kicked. You know, I was in 74 00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:32,520 Speaker 1: Ohio in two I worked for Ted Strickland. It was 75 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:35,200 Speaker 1: one of the few races that was actually very close. 76 00:04:35,240 --> 00:04:37,440 Speaker 1: It was like a two point oh margin or something 77 00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:41,919 Speaker 1: like that. UM. And the narrative coming out of was 78 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:46,480 Speaker 1: that Barack Obama was dead man walking UM. For of course, 79 00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:51,360 Speaker 1: he ended up winning fairly handily in UM. But part 80 00:04:51,360 --> 00:04:53,039 Speaker 1: of it was that it was a kick in the 81 00:04:53,279 --> 00:04:59,080 Speaker 1: you know, it was I know, sorry, I'm not sure 82 00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:02,040 Speaker 1: what under neutral phrase, by the way, under the new 83 00:05:02,120 --> 00:05:04,960 Speaker 1: rules of the Democratic Party. So it was a pick 84 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:08,080 Speaker 1: in a dense area full of nerves and it grows 85 00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:11,599 Speaker 1: is great pain. Okay, let's see dot org. But but 86 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:13,760 Speaker 1: but but let me let me but let me just 87 00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:17,039 Speaker 1: say this was it was UM. It was a wake 88 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:19,960 Speaker 1: up call for Democrats that we needed to go more 89 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:23,080 Speaker 1: on the offensive, and we needed to make sure that 90 00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:26,839 Speaker 1: we were making clear the choice between Democrats and Republicans 91 00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:30,599 Speaker 1: and really going out and selling our agenda. And the 92 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:34,560 Speaker 1: one frustration that UM I have at times right now 93 00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:37,080 Speaker 1: with the Democratic Party is that we know, we hear 94 00:05:37,120 --> 00:05:40,960 Speaker 1: every day how popular billback better or Biff or whatever is, 95 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:45,960 Speaker 1: but we're not out there necessarily communicating as aggressively as 96 00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:48,599 Speaker 1: we could be about these things and about the choice 97 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:51,880 Speaker 1: that voters faced between Democrats and Republicans. Okay, and we're 98 00:05:51,880 --> 00:05:53,520 Speaker 1: going to come back to that, but I want to 99 00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:56,640 Speaker 1: zoom out for for one more minute, which is UM, 100 00:05:56,680 --> 00:06:00,880 Speaker 1: there's a history of this president's parties almost always lose 101 00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:03,760 Speaker 1: a lot of seats in the mid terms and the 102 00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:09,320 Speaker 1: term exactly. Um. Since nix, the average midterm loss for 103 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:12,679 Speaker 1: president's party is twenty five seats and it's very closely 104 00:06:12,720 --> 00:06:15,520 Speaker 1: tied to the president's approval rating. That is the number 105 00:06:15,520 --> 00:06:17,479 Speaker 1: of people in a poll who say they approve of 106 00:06:17,520 --> 00:06:21,839 Speaker 1: the job that the president is doing. For presidents below approval, 107 00:06:21,880 --> 00:06:25,320 Speaker 1: which is basically where President Biden has been since the summer, 108 00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:28,840 Speaker 1: the average loss is thirty seven House seats, and so 109 00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:31,560 Speaker 1: you know, even half of that would wipe away the 110 00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:37,160 Speaker 1: Democratic House majority. Um. Is there anything that the President, 111 00:06:37,279 --> 00:06:40,680 Speaker 1: the White House, the Democratic Party can do, um in 112 00:06:40,720 --> 00:06:44,360 Speaker 1: the face of these you know, really powerful historical headwinds, 113 00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:47,360 Speaker 1: or do they basically need to accept that the House 114 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:51,599 Speaker 1: is lost? Well, they My advice to them would be 115 00:06:51,640 --> 00:06:57,640 Speaker 1: to stop fucking up. Um. Sorry, good advice. No, No, 116 00:06:57,800 --> 00:07:02,000 Speaker 1: it's okay, it's okay, we're gonna So here's the problem. 117 00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:04,240 Speaker 1: You're right, and that's the you know, I think, and 118 00:07:04,279 --> 00:07:06,520 Speaker 1: I think Liz is right too. You can over interpret 119 00:07:06,520 --> 00:07:10,960 Speaker 1: the mid terms. Um, it's loaded against the incumbent president, 120 00:07:10,960 --> 00:07:15,600 Speaker 1: particularly in the first term. But that said, when you're polling, 121 00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:20,000 Speaker 1: numbers are collapsing. When you ran as the alternative the 122 00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:23,480 Speaker 1: chaos to bring normalcy back, but instead you've got kind 123 00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:27,880 Speaker 1: of an ideological chaos of your own going. Um, then 124 00:07:28,120 --> 00:07:30,720 Speaker 1: all those life asks of well this is their traditional 125 00:07:30,800 --> 00:07:33,400 Speaker 1: bump in the road, it doesn't tell the big picture. Well, 126 00:07:33,440 --> 00:07:37,920 Speaker 1: the big picture is right now medium disaster politically for 127 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:41,640 Speaker 1: Joe Biden, a huge exploding doubts and at least in 128 00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:44,360 Speaker 1: the conventional wisdom beltway, which means maybe you've got to 129 00:07:44,400 --> 00:07:47,600 Speaker 1: discount them a little for Kamala Harris. And so when 130 00:07:47,640 --> 00:07:50,120 Speaker 1: you add upon that the traditional trouble you've gotten the 131 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:53,040 Speaker 1: mid terms, it becomes an amplifier of the narrative. So 132 00:07:53,080 --> 00:07:55,760 Speaker 1: what can of White House do? Um, they can use 133 00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:59,000 Speaker 1: the political power of the presidency in a competent way 134 00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:03,880 Speaker 1: to try to marginalized the losses and make it easier 135 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:07,320 Speaker 1: for those losses to be defined as historical normal. Right now, 136 00:08:07,400 --> 00:08:12,160 Speaker 1: they're going to be defined if nothing changes, as obvious 137 00:08:12,360 --> 00:08:16,880 Speaker 1: result of political disaster for the Democratic Party and the president, 138 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:22,000 Speaker 1: both ideological in my view. And you know, the increasing 139 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:25,720 Speaker 1: thing questions about Biden, you know, why why do they 140 00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:28,080 Speaker 1: keep stumbling blah blah blah, And there'll be there'll be 141 00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:30,040 Speaker 1: a chorus of partisans who are going to say that 142 00:08:30,120 --> 00:08:32,440 Speaker 1: no matter what he does. But I think most honest 143 00:08:32,440 --> 00:08:35,640 Speaker 1: reporters right now think, well, his phone numbers are collapsing. 144 00:08:35,679 --> 00:08:38,240 Speaker 1: He hasn't hit a home run. The best thing he had, infrastructure, 145 00:08:38,559 --> 00:08:41,679 Speaker 1: got lost in this house slappy fight between the progressives 146 00:08:41,679 --> 00:08:45,200 Speaker 1: and the few remaining moderates. Joe Mansion is running the country, 147 00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:48,120 Speaker 1: not Joe Biden, and he's a he's a week bystander. 148 00:08:48,360 --> 00:08:51,640 Speaker 1: So you don't set up the mid terms to mean 149 00:08:51,760 --> 00:08:55,240 Speaker 1: more by the stumble bump stuff that they somehow become 150 00:08:55,320 --> 00:08:58,240 Speaker 1: caught in. Some of us their faults, some of it not. Well, 151 00:08:58,880 --> 00:09:01,640 Speaker 1: let me let me build off of that. Do you 152 00:09:01,760 --> 00:09:05,760 Speaker 1: think there's a stumble bum narrative that's developed around the president? 153 00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:08,880 Speaker 1: Because I'll give you the alternative case, which is, you know, 154 00:09:08,960 --> 00:09:11,760 Speaker 1: he came in and very quickly passed the American Rescue Plan. 155 00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:14,800 Speaker 1: He passed it by part as an infrastructure plan that 156 00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:18,280 Speaker 1: most people doubt it could get done. Uh. The economy 157 00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:21,840 Speaker 1: is roaring back much more quickly than was projected when 158 00:09:21,840 --> 00:09:25,000 Speaker 1: he took office. So why is his approval rating at 159 00:09:25,080 --> 00:09:29,480 Speaker 1: forty or fort Uh? Well, I think some of it 160 00:09:29,559 --> 00:09:33,240 Speaker 1: is due to things out of his control. Um, there's 161 00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:36,360 Speaker 1: a lot of fatigue with COVID, you know the fact 162 00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:41,240 Speaker 1: that it's seemingly never going away, and a lot of 163 00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:43,040 Speaker 1: that is out of his control. And you know, he 164 00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:45,880 Speaker 1: can go out there and point out, well, he accelerated 165 00:09:45,880 --> 00:09:48,920 Speaker 1: back getting vaccines to more people. Republicans fought them at 166 00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:52,240 Speaker 1: every um, fought them tooth and nail at every step. 167 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:56,320 Speaker 1: But as long as people you know, feel burdened by 168 00:09:56,520 --> 00:10:00,720 Speaker 1: you know, continued mass mandates and UM lock downs, whatever 169 00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:04,240 Speaker 1: it is, that, I think that that's going to hurt him. UM. 170 00:10:04,280 --> 00:10:06,760 Speaker 1: So I think that some of the narrative around him 171 00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:09,880 Speaker 1: is unfair given the things that he's been able to do, 172 00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:13,960 Speaker 1: which to me highlights why they've got to be aggressive 173 00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:17,120 Speaker 1: in going out and selling their agenda and and selling 174 00:10:17,160 --> 00:10:19,920 Speaker 1: the great things that they have done. And I know 175 00:10:19,960 --> 00:10:22,320 Speaker 1: that the White House is planning on doing that, and 176 00:10:22,360 --> 00:10:26,360 Speaker 1: we've seen the White House be more aggressive in recent 177 00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:31,360 Speaker 1: weeks doing that. Um. But another thing is to Mike's 178 00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:35,960 Speaker 1: earlier point, I'm gonna censor myself for once, UM about 179 00:10:36,120 --> 00:10:41,120 Speaker 1: to stop at history here. Mike is less profane than 180 00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:44,000 Speaker 1: Liz Smith. That's shocking up right right. This is like 181 00:10:44,080 --> 00:10:49,600 Speaker 1: Katie Kirk after dark here. So, UM, but is what 182 00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:52,760 Speaker 1: we saw in Virginia in New Jersey that was very 183 00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:56,320 Speaker 1: troubling to me is that Republicans were seen as more 184 00:10:56,400 --> 00:11:00,680 Speaker 1: in touch with voters, as more in touch with their concerns. UM. 185 00:11:00,760 --> 00:11:03,600 Speaker 1: And I think the Democrats allow themselves to get sort 186 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:06,840 Speaker 1: of thrown off what should have been the core message, UM, 187 00:11:06,880 --> 00:11:09,880 Speaker 1: the message that really voters care about, which is we're 188 00:11:09,880 --> 00:11:13,240 Speaker 1: improving your live We're delivering economic results for you, We're 189 00:11:13,280 --> 00:11:16,240 Speaker 1: trying to lower costs, we're trying to fight covid UM. 190 00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:18,760 Speaker 1: And instead, you know, they're going off on tangents about 191 00:11:18,760 --> 00:11:23,520 Speaker 1: stuff like uh, critical race theory and and defending UM 192 00:11:23,720 --> 00:11:27,080 Speaker 1: school closures, which are you know about is you know, 193 00:11:27,160 --> 00:11:30,959 Speaker 1: popular as herpies at this point. So Democrats need to 194 00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:34,160 Speaker 1: get go more on the offensive about the very good 195 00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:37,160 Speaker 1: things that we've done, because again, we are the party 196 00:11:37,480 --> 00:11:39,839 Speaker 1: right now that is fighting to lower costs for people, 197 00:11:40,080 --> 00:11:43,920 Speaker 1: We're fighting UM to get people childcare, tax credits, all 198 00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:46,880 Speaker 1: these great economic things. Republicans are standing in the way 199 00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:49,560 Speaker 1: of that, and instead we're going down these crazy rabbit 200 00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:51,600 Speaker 1: holes and culture wars that we don't need to be 201 00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:53,760 Speaker 1: in the middle of. The other thing that Terry mccauloff, 202 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:57,440 Speaker 1: the Democratic candidate in Virginia, really tried to do was 203 00:11:57,559 --> 00:12:02,240 Speaker 1: link the Republican to Donald Trump, and that became a 204 00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:06,520 Speaker 1: core element of his message and didn't seem to work. Um, 205 00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:09,559 Speaker 1: do you think that that portends something for the elections 206 00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:12,760 Speaker 1: next year? It does, And I'd be interested to hear 207 00:12:12,960 --> 00:12:16,400 Speaker 1: Mike's Mike's take on this, But I'll just say briefly, 208 00:12:16,760 --> 00:12:21,000 Speaker 1: if you look at eighteen when Democrats took back the House, 209 00:12:21,559 --> 00:12:24,920 Speaker 1: even with all this gerrymandering and everything, we were able 210 00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:27,640 Speaker 1: to take back the House. You look at the ads 211 00:12:27,679 --> 00:12:31,000 Speaker 1: that Colin all Red ran, that Andy Kim ran, that 212 00:12:31,160 --> 00:12:36,160 Speaker 1: Lauren Underwood ranchers Democrats who beat Republicans to take the 213 00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:40,120 Speaker 1: House that year. Right, thank you for clarifying that, Yes, 214 00:12:40,880 --> 00:12:44,280 Speaker 1: they were not ads about Donald Trump. They were not 215 00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:48,760 Speaker 1: hair on fire sort of Lincoln project ads. They were ads, um, 216 00:12:48,840 --> 00:12:52,000 Speaker 1: that were focused on economic issues, on healthcare, which was 217 00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:55,160 Speaker 1: the number one issue in eighteen. And I think it's 218 00:12:55,160 --> 00:12:59,120 Speaker 1: incumbent on Democrats to understand that, um, that while the 219 00:12:59,160 --> 00:13:02,960 Speaker 1: belt Waite conversation might revolve completely around Trump and most 220 00:13:02,960 --> 00:13:05,520 Speaker 1: people's lives, don't you know they just carefully can pay 221 00:13:05,520 --> 00:13:09,000 Speaker 1: the rails. And the more that we're talking about those 222 00:13:09,040 --> 00:13:12,040 Speaker 1: things bread and butter issues and less we're talking about Trump, 223 00:13:12,120 --> 00:13:15,200 Speaker 1: the better. And I would advise Democrats to go back 224 00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:21,400 Speaker 1: to that playbook. And Mike, do Democrats um have the 225 00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:26,520 Speaker 1: capacity to argue that when they're in charge of the 226 00:13:26,559 --> 00:13:30,240 Speaker 1: country believes we're on the wrong track. Biden owns people's 227 00:13:30,280 --> 00:13:33,480 Speaker 1: perceptions of the economy, which are really bad right now, 228 00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:37,520 Speaker 1: despite the stock market, but despite the headline unemployment numbers, 229 00:13:37,559 --> 00:13:42,760 Speaker 1: some combination of costs, inflation, maybe chaos in Washington is 230 00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:45,800 Speaker 1: leading people to decide that, you know, no matter what 231 00:13:45,880 --> 00:13:52,280 Speaker 1: Biden says, they they disagree with it. Well, the premise 232 00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:56,800 Speaker 1: of your question, yes, I mean Biden is the captain, 233 00:13:57,080 --> 00:13:59,920 Speaker 1: so it's gonna be about him. And in the belt 234 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:02,800 Speaker 1: Way and the chattering class, it's always about Trump out 235 00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:05,480 Speaker 1: in voter land if you're not operating within the Democrat 236 00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:09,200 Speaker 1: excuse me, the Republican primary electorate. Trump is rear view 237 00:14:09,280 --> 00:14:12,080 Speaker 1: mirror yesterday's news. Why are you still talking about it? 238 00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:15,640 Speaker 1: The biggest problem we have now on the Republican side, 239 00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:18,400 Speaker 1: as we have this kind of cement head bund that 240 00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:22,640 Speaker 1: is scary, terrible, anti patriotic and basically now running the 241 00:14:22,680 --> 00:14:25,760 Speaker 1: House of Representatives. Uh, and we'll run it farther if 242 00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:28,280 Speaker 1: we get in the majority, which is likely, you have 243 00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:31,720 Speaker 1: a larger faction. But their cowards, so cowards don't count 244 00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:34,360 Speaker 1: in factional wark as they hide, they don't fight. But 245 00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:38,360 Speaker 1: the Democrats in some ways have a bigger problem, which 246 00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:41,360 Speaker 1: is because our very democracy. And I don't tend to 247 00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:44,240 Speaker 1: be hysterical about this like some people, but it is 248 00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:48,720 Speaker 1: under threat. Um the Democratic Party is now too important 249 00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:53,240 Speaker 1: for the Democratic leadership class because they're helping cause Trump 250 00:14:53,240 --> 00:14:57,160 Speaker 1: point two point oh, because they want to fight on 251 00:14:57,600 --> 00:15:01,680 Speaker 1: identity and the Democrats are stumbling into culture wars and 252 00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:05,080 Speaker 1: they're holding a weak hand. Morally, they might argue they're 253 00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:08,080 Speaker 1: holding a strong hand, but politically it is a weekend. 254 00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:13,920 Speaker 1: It is secular superiority, mocking institutions, all about identity grievance. 255 00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:17,520 Speaker 1: If you went to Joe Biden's website and by the way, 256 00:15:17,560 --> 00:15:19,720 Speaker 1: I voted for Biden. That's so much I hated Trump. 257 00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:21,600 Speaker 1: You know, I was shaking. I needed a drink. It 258 00:15:21,640 --> 00:15:24,280 Speaker 1: was a painful experience for me. I'm a I'm a 259 00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:26,760 Speaker 1: firm conservative, but I thought Trump should danger to the 260 00:15:27,040 --> 00:15:28,920 Speaker 1: to the country, so I voted for Biden, and I 261 00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:31,760 Speaker 1: had hopes he'd stick with his kind of center of steal. 262 00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:35,680 Speaker 1: And So back to Biden's website, if you if you 263 00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:38,480 Speaker 1: went down on the landing page, there were like fifteen 264 00:15:38,520 --> 00:15:42,960 Speaker 1: little iconic cartoons of different groups. Every group's represented and 265 00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:45,600 Speaker 1: the Republican Party. And I'm channeling Mark Lilla here, who's 266 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:49,520 Speaker 1: a Columbia professor. Luckily for him tenured, he's a liberal. 267 00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:51,920 Speaker 1: He wrote a great short book. I highly recommend the 268 00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:55,360 Speaker 1: Once in Future Liberal after Hillary lost. But they do 269 00:15:55,640 --> 00:15:59,760 Speaker 1: a corporatist in the political science sense of the word, 270 00:15:59,840 --> 00:16:02,920 Speaker 1: a democratic coalition of all these groups with grievances. I'm 271 00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:05,520 Speaker 1: a left handed Native American for Biden, I'm of this. 272 00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:08,680 Speaker 1: I'm of that confederation of groups. We do the one 273 00:16:08,680 --> 00:16:11,480 Speaker 1: big unifying idea Shining City on the Hill with Reagan, 274 00:16:11,560 --> 00:16:14,560 Speaker 1: make America great again with Trump. Uh. That tries to 275 00:16:14,640 --> 00:16:18,000 Speaker 1: unite everybody in that cause. So this group is um 276 00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:20,880 Speaker 1: tells working class white people, holy crap, we need to 277 00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:23,800 Speaker 1: get a group, and then the Trump's of the world 278 00:16:23,800 --> 00:16:26,920 Speaker 1: show up with their racism and their nativist arguments. So 279 00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:31,920 Speaker 1: the problem that Democrats have is getting out of this group. 280 00:16:32,040 --> 00:16:34,440 Speaker 1: Is um that drives in and getting back to a 281 00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:38,160 Speaker 1: unified message about how and middle class economics the Democratic 282 00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:40,760 Speaker 1: Party will help you. And we're back into it now 283 00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:43,720 Speaker 1: because even Biden's build Back Better, which reminds me of 284 00:16:43,720 --> 00:16:48,280 Speaker 1: the slogan of a chiropractic chain um, is perceived as 285 00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:51,440 Speaker 1: cost right now, not benefit when you test the elements 286 00:16:51,480 --> 00:16:54,120 Speaker 1: of it. There's voter candy in there all the way, 287 00:16:54,160 --> 00:16:56,400 Speaker 1: but it's not relevant to what people think about Biden 288 00:16:56,440 --> 00:16:59,000 Speaker 1: really quick. They also think Biden is weak. It's not 289 00:16:59,080 --> 00:17:01,920 Speaker 1: about his eight point policy. Planet's about he's the old 290 00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:04,280 Speaker 1: man watching the house blow up, and nobody will listen 291 00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:07,320 Speaker 1: to him, and that's kryptonite for a president. Unfair, but 292 00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:10,320 Speaker 1: that's the way politics works. We're going to take a 293 00:17:10,359 --> 00:17:12,280 Speaker 1: break right now to pay the bills and we'll be 294 00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:22,440 Speaker 1: right back. You're listening to next question. I'm Brian Goldsmith 295 00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:25,280 Speaker 1: and I'm talking with two of my favorite political strategists, 296 00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:29,440 Speaker 1: Liz Smith and Mike Murphy about the upcoming mid terms. 297 00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:33,399 Speaker 1: Let's get back to it. It is striking to me 298 00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:38,480 Speaker 1: the extent to which performance may not matter. Policy may 299 00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:41,520 Speaker 1: not matter as much anymore. I mean, Biden sign legislation 300 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:45,920 Speaker 1: that literally sent most Americans a direct deposit of fives 301 00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:48,600 Speaker 1: every month, and people don't know about it, or if 302 00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:50,919 Speaker 1: they know about it, they don't give Biden credit for it. 303 00:17:51,320 --> 00:17:54,760 Speaker 1: He passed this once in a generation, biggest investment in 304 00:17:54,760 --> 00:17:58,720 Speaker 1: infrastructure since Eisenhower, and he got no credit, no lift 305 00:17:58,760 --> 00:18:02,080 Speaker 1: in his numbers. As a result, has politics just become 306 00:18:02,560 --> 00:18:07,720 Speaker 1: us versus them, tribalism, entertainment, disconnected from what's going on 307 00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:12,000 Speaker 1: in the country or what Biden is able to accomplish. Well, 308 00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:16,199 Speaker 1: I think a little bit it has become that. Um uh. 309 00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:21,280 Speaker 1: But again just I think the belt Way conversation was 310 00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:24,639 Speaker 1: very much focused on process. I do not think if 311 00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:27,760 Speaker 1: you go around asked your neighbors, asked your friends, that 312 00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:30,399 Speaker 1: they that they really know a huge amount about the 313 00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:33,080 Speaker 1: back and forth between the squad and cinema and mansion, 314 00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:37,040 Speaker 1: all of that. Um. And it's always important, at least 315 00:18:37,040 --> 00:18:39,160 Speaker 1: to me, to keep in mind that people, I guess 316 00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:42,520 Speaker 1: are very much in the bubble. Um. But we have 317 00:18:42,520 --> 00:18:45,480 Speaker 1: eleven months to sell this just because Biden didn't get 318 00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:47,600 Speaker 1: and I think it's silly to think that he would 319 00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:50,560 Speaker 1: get some huge bomb overnight just because he passed his bill. 320 00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:52,800 Speaker 1: I know it's historic but it goes to what you 321 00:18:52,840 --> 00:18:56,000 Speaker 1: were saying, Brian, that there is a large amount of 322 00:18:56,000 --> 00:18:58,480 Speaker 1: tribalism these days and it is sort of hard to 323 00:18:58,520 --> 00:19:01,560 Speaker 1: break through that. However, over the next eleven months, it's 324 00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:05,560 Speaker 1: incumbent upon Democrats um at every level to sell the 325 00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:08,080 Speaker 1: hell out of his accomplishments and to point out the 326 00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:10,960 Speaker 1: checks that people are getting. And a few weeks ago 327 00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:15,200 Speaker 1: I got dollar check and to anyone of any income, 328 00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:18,080 Speaker 1: that's a big chunk of change. And if people know 329 00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:21,480 Speaker 1: the Democrats are doing this and the Republicans have tried 330 00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:23,399 Speaker 1: to stop this sort of stuff at every sup of 331 00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:27,320 Speaker 1: the way, that is a winning message for Democrats. But 332 00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:29,639 Speaker 1: let me let me just quickly interject, because I agree 333 00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:31,440 Speaker 1: with all that, but I have a big caveat the 334 00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:36,200 Speaker 1: two things. One, if see Biden didn't get a lift 335 00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:40,359 Speaker 1: from infrastructure because nothing ultimately happened. It got passed in 336 00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:43,639 Speaker 1: the Senate, but it didn't get passed past by getting 337 00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:46,840 Speaker 1: through the House quickly, so the White House communication machine 338 00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:49,960 Speaker 1: could have turned on and the thing is perfect for 339 00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:52,240 Speaker 1: a three or four months. Wow, look what just got 340 00:19:52,280 --> 00:19:55,280 Speaker 1: done fast and possibly in d C. Thank your President Biden. 341 00:19:55,680 --> 00:19:57,399 Speaker 1: You know, there's the oldest slogan in the world Governor 342 00:19:57,480 --> 00:20:00,600 Speaker 1: Rhodes in Ohio, Roads and Progress, so he didn't get 343 00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:04,440 Speaker 1: any of that. Instead it became a confusing Washington slappy fight, 344 00:20:04,920 --> 00:20:08,520 Speaker 1: just like before, where the squad was like mad, there 345 00:20:08,520 --> 00:20:10,960 Speaker 1: weren't enough trillions in it, and some guy from West 346 00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:15,360 Speaker 1: Virginia said, and boom, it's lost in that no opportunity 347 00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:19,000 Speaker 1: to hey, I got elected. Trump's gone and I just 348 00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:21,040 Speaker 1: built a lot of new highways and your brother in 349 00:20:21,119 --> 00:20:23,200 Speaker 1: law can get a good union job. That was all 350 00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:26,240 Speaker 1: taken from him. Now. Maybe they have it now, but 351 00:20:26,359 --> 00:20:29,040 Speaker 1: they could have run their messaging for six months on 352 00:20:29,119 --> 00:20:32,440 Speaker 1: a big win. And to your point about issues not mattering, 353 00:20:32,600 --> 00:20:35,879 Speaker 1: they matter less now because the old intermediaries are gone 354 00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:38,399 Speaker 1: in the digital tribal age and the old days, Walter 355 00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:41,120 Speaker 1: Kronk I would say, this is amazing, the biggest infrastructure 356 00:20:41,119 --> 00:20:43,679 Speaker 1: bill ever. Here's what it means to you. Now we've 357 00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:47,680 Speaker 1: got eight hundred channels. Half of them are just insanity 358 00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:51,439 Speaker 1: of one tribe or the other picking everything apart. So 359 00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:55,879 Speaker 1: it's very hard to get the rewards you used to 360 00:20:55,960 --> 00:20:58,840 Speaker 1: earn with real accomplishment out there. So you have to 361 00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:02,040 Speaker 1: be better at doing less doing big things. And hammering 362 00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:04,919 Speaker 1: them in. Finally, one big problem they've got with this 363 00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:07,840 Speaker 1: build back better thing. The elements may test so well, 364 00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:10,720 Speaker 1: but because the nature of the legislative process is to 365 00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:14,320 Speaker 1: shove so many elements in it, no one element gets 366 00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:17,280 Speaker 1: all the attention. If this were the child care bill period, 367 00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:20,080 Speaker 1: it would translate a lot more and help them instead 368 00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:22,000 Speaker 1: of the big bundle of a trillion dollars worth of 369 00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:26,040 Speaker 1: view spending bill, which is easier to call inflation. So 370 00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:29,640 Speaker 1: two more issues that may cut through the noise that 371 00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:35,480 Speaker 1: you both are describing our COVID and abortion, and let's 372 00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:38,880 Speaker 1: let's do one at a time. With COVID, Biden came 373 00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:41,959 Speaker 1: in with a big advantage in terms of Americans perception 374 00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:45,640 Speaker 1: of his handling of that issue. Now people are are 375 00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:51,560 Speaker 1: evenly split, Liz, when you think about the unpredictable future variants, 376 00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:54,280 Speaker 1: is omikrone going to be the new delta or is 377 00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:56,920 Speaker 1: it just going to be a blip? Um our school 378 00:21:57,000 --> 00:22:00,119 Speaker 1: is going to stay open? How do you assess the 379 00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:04,760 Speaker 1: political impact, to put it in purely crass terms of 380 00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:11,760 Speaker 1: this once in a lifetime hopefully pandemic um. Well, I 381 00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:14,560 Speaker 1: mean it's hard to assess because it's very unpredictable and 382 00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:18,359 Speaker 1: we don't know how it's going to progress. However, I 383 00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:20,760 Speaker 1: do think that he needs to learn from some of 384 00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:24,480 Speaker 1: the mistakes of the past, the mistakes that we saw, um, 385 00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:26,760 Speaker 1: you know, early on in the Trump administration, and not 386 00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:30,639 Speaker 1: repeat them, you know, not uh you know. And Democrats 387 00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:34,200 Speaker 1: yet and this isn't just Biden, this is Democrats at large. 388 00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:37,119 Speaker 1: Is to not you know, rush to close schools. I 389 00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:40,960 Speaker 1: think that the school closures were disaster, the impacts of 390 00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:42,840 Speaker 1: which are going to be felt for years and years 391 00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:47,040 Speaker 1: and years in terms of kids, mental health, UM, economic 392 00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:49,600 Speaker 1: impact on families, all of that. So to learn from 393 00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:52,520 Speaker 1: the mistakes of the past. But to you know, one 394 00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:55,240 Speaker 1: thing that I was hardened by was when the news 395 00:22:55,320 --> 00:23:00,159 Speaker 1: of the mecrum UM variant came out. He responds it 396 00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:02,120 Speaker 1: right away, and he was on top of it and 397 00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:05,480 Speaker 1: showed that his administration was taking it very seriously. That's 398 00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:08,280 Speaker 1: not something that the Trump administration was doing, you know. 399 00:23:08,359 --> 00:23:12,320 Speaker 1: But he's still gonna get punished, um for these things 400 00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:14,719 Speaker 1: that are average to control because there is a lot 401 00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:18,159 Speaker 1: of fatigue with with COVID and UM. That's gonna be 402 00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:19,919 Speaker 1: a challenge for him. But as long as he shows 403 00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:22,919 Speaker 1: decisive leadership and learns from the mistakes of the past. 404 00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:25,680 Speaker 1: I think that's the best and most he can do. Well. 405 00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:28,480 Speaker 1: He does own COVID. It's unfortunate. COVID is not kind 406 00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:31,840 Speaker 1: of politicians. When you're elected, hey, maybe something will be different. 407 00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:34,000 Speaker 1: When nothing is different, they get mad at you. And 408 00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:37,479 Speaker 1: there's no winning COVID on a political level if you're 409 00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:40,480 Speaker 1: an incumbent because you're making people take castor oil. It 410 00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:43,760 Speaker 1: doesn't go away overnight. COVID is not going to say Biden. 411 00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:47,400 Speaker 1: Biden is going to endure COVID, but it's gonna create damage. 412 00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:50,080 Speaker 1: So the question is how does he paint the forward 413 00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:54,119 Speaker 1: picture that's not about identity grievances, of what the Democratic 414 00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:57,760 Speaker 1: Party is fighting for that will help your life other 415 00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:01,040 Speaker 1: than a laundry list of programs. Biden was good in 416 00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:04,800 Speaker 1: the campaign at being a regular guy with regular values 417 00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:08,040 Speaker 1: who understood people who swing wrenches for a living, and 418 00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:11,800 Speaker 1: that message has been lost about a month into his presidency. 419 00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:15,320 Speaker 1: Um because of the big megaphone of the progressives in 420 00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:18,880 Speaker 1: the House, because COVID is something that frankly, it requires 421 00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:22,280 Speaker 1: political pain to solve. UM if anything, and I've said 422 00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:24,800 Speaker 1: this a lot on hacks on tap. I want Biden 423 00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:29,040 Speaker 1: to start being much tougher calling out the unvaccinated Americans 424 00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:32,280 Speaker 1: is unpatriotic, and beat the hell out of them. You know, 425 00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:35,520 Speaker 1: it's the sixty forty advantage. Go on offense and at 426 00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:38,640 Speaker 1: least be a fighter. Right now, Biden is an observer, 427 00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:42,520 Speaker 1: and observer presidents and times of crisis do not do well. 428 00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:45,400 Speaker 1: So he's got nothing to lose. He's on a spiral now. 429 00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:48,080 Speaker 1: They are going to lose the House, They're highly likely 430 00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:50,680 Speaker 1: to lose the Senate. So if I were Biden, I'd 431 00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:52,760 Speaker 1: fight like I have nothing to lose and be tough 432 00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:55,879 Speaker 1: Delaware Joe for a while, because I think there's nowhere 433 00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:58,280 Speaker 1: to go but up on this and quit releasing term 434 00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:01,320 Speaker 1: papers about we found a by the gradable way to 435 00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:04,600 Speaker 1: ship the COVID for less admissions. You know, that's the 436 00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:08,440 Speaker 1: democratic term paper approach. It's great in democratic primaries, it's 437 00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:11,480 Speaker 1: great in the two counties of vote America vote Democrat 438 00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:14,000 Speaker 1: in America. But the other three thousand counties it's a 439 00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:17,960 Speaker 1: cultural thing, and they may respect his toughness if he 440 00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:21,439 Speaker 1: starts showing it. Is another issue where Democrats feel like 441 00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:25,680 Speaker 1: they've got a sixty advantage of support for Roe v. Wade. UM, 442 00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:29,680 Speaker 1: the decision that's coming from the Supreme Court, we think 443 00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:33,200 Speaker 1: maybe in June of next year, smack in the middle 444 00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:38,080 Speaker 1: of the mid terms, could overrule it. UM. Will that 445 00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:42,600 Speaker 1: energize the Democratic base? Will that save Democrats from a 446 00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:46,520 Speaker 1: catastrophic midterm result? Is there stuff the party could be 447 00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:52,040 Speaker 1: doing between now and then? Um? Yes. So. My my 448 00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:54,439 Speaker 1: view on this for a very long time has always 449 00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:58,240 Speaker 1: been that, you know, worst case scenario for Republicans is 450 00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:00,159 Speaker 1: if they actually do get a Supreme Courts it that 451 00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:03,280 Speaker 1: overtterms Roby Wade because they just want to run on 452 00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:08,120 Speaker 1: this issue for decades, decades, decades and use it um 453 00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:11,360 Speaker 1: you know, as you know, a mechanism for grievance within 454 00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:14,080 Speaker 1: their own party. This allows us to sort of flip 455 00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:16,399 Speaker 1: the script and do what Republicans have been doing for 456 00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:20,879 Speaker 1: decades and use this issue to motivate our base. Um. 457 00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:24,879 Speaker 1: And there is even beyond the polling, I think that 458 00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:29,360 Speaker 1: there is a even larger silent majority UM that is 459 00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:33,080 Speaker 1: on the side of preserving Roby Wade, preserving abortion rights. 460 00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:36,280 Speaker 1: If you look at um stays, for instance, states like 461 00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:41,840 Speaker 1: South Dakota as conservative, socially conservative as they come. About 462 00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:44,159 Speaker 1: a decade ago, they tried to do a ballot initiative 463 00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:46,800 Speaker 1: to ban abortion, and everyone was like, well, of course 464 00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:49,399 Speaker 1: this is gonna pass. They're going to ban abortion. This 465 00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:52,800 Speaker 1: is South Dakota. I worked in South Dakota, and I 466 00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:57,480 Speaker 1: barely remember meeting any Democrats who at the doors would say, um, 467 00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:00,520 Speaker 1: that I'm pro choice. And so I think that this 468 00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:06,800 Speaker 1: will motivate not only Democrats, but you know, Republicans, moderate Republicans, 469 00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:11,719 Speaker 1: Independence who see this as you know, a fundamental overreach. Um. 470 00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:16,520 Speaker 1: And it's republicans worst nightmare. Um if this happens, I think, 471 00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:18,720 Speaker 1: and it it really takes an issue off the table 472 00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:22,560 Speaker 1: for them, and it gives us a huge, huge motivating issue. Mike, 473 00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:26,719 Speaker 1: you agree with that, uh, partially. First of all, if 474 00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:29,119 Speaker 1: you have an angry letter based on what I'm about 475 00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:33,600 Speaker 1: to say, send it to Brian Goldsmith Katie Curry podcast. 476 00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:37,199 Speaker 1: The minor tragedy in this is that nobody sees the 477 00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:42,080 Speaker 1: Supreme Court through the prism of constitutional law anymore. It's basically, 478 00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:43,920 Speaker 1: will they give me what I want and I believe 479 00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:46,680 Speaker 1: it or not, which is not the purpose of the court. 480 00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:50,920 Speaker 1: And Roe v. Wade is tricky Constitutional law. The Court 481 00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:54,040 Speaker 1: basically tortured itself to find a way to please the 482 00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:57,120 Speaker 1: majority of the country that was at least a reasonable 483 00:27:57,240 --> 00:28:01,960 Speaker 1: argument constitutionally to create Roe v. Wade out. Politically, people 484 00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:04,359 Speaker 1: don't want big changes in abortion law in most places. 485 00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:08,800 Speaker 1: Remember the fight of Row is, should localities states make 486 00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:11,600 Speaker 1: their own abortion laws? There shouldn't be federalized. If it 487 00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:15,560 Speaker 1: is overturned, it's it's going to be political rocket fuel 488 00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:18,240 Speaker 1: for the Democrats in some places and in other places 489 00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:21,879 Speaker 1: it won't be the suburbs, which are the key back 490 00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:25,359 Speaker 1: and forth the likery you know against Trump. The Dems 491 00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:27,600 Speaker 1: won them in two thousand and eighteen. In healthcare they won, 492 00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:32,840 Speaker 1: and Trump on popularity in you know Biden, Trump was 493 00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:37,240 Speaker 1: rejected in Virginia. They went back Republican. Uh so it 494 00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:39,760 Speaker 1: can happen. You don't get it for free by saying 495 00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:42,560 Speaker 1: Trump and in In that world is going to be 496 00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:46,560 Speaker 1: a mighty struggle between ideological fear of the Democrats. Tax 497 00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:50,200 Speaker 1: and spend liberals bring us inflation, which Democrats roll their 498 00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:52,520 Speaker 1: eyes on. But that is an old hit. The Republicans 499 00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:54,520 Speaker 1: know how to play it and it works. It's working 500 00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:59,520 Speaker 1: now or a college educated pro choice voters who are 501 00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:02,000 Speaker 1: attempted to vote against Biden and all those things, being 502 00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:05,840 Speaker 1: horrified enough by the idea of fundamental changes in abortion rights, 503 00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:09,120 Speaker 1: which by the way, won't happen in most suburban states. 504 00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:11,560 Speaker 1: So it's a little bit of an abstract issue, but 505 00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:14,880 Speaker 1: it's very powerful. And finally, you know, a hundred million 506 00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:17,160 Speaker 1: dollars is going to show up from low dollar donors 507 00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:20,080 Speaker 1: for the Democrats. There it'll be it'll be huge. The 508 00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:23,680 Speaker 1: problem is will be bigger than frustration with Biden in 509 00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:26,880 Speaker 1: most places. No, and a few of those suburbs it 510 00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:30,920 Speaker 1: could be we will see last point. The suburbs will 511 00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:33,680 Speaker 1: have an impact on the House races, but it's really 512 00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:37,000 Speaker 1: these key Senate races where it could make the difference 513 00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:39,320 Speaker 1: where it could take the Democrats out of the holder 514 00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:46,880 Speaker 1: in Pennsylvania, New Hampshire, Nevada, or Nevada. But anyway to 515 00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:49,600 Speaker 1: land the other debate role will be a net plus 516 00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:52,360 Speaker 1: for the Dems. In the suburb it's overturned. But I'm 517 00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:54,680 Speaker 1: not sure it's the Pana sea. You know, both parties 518 00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:58,360 Speaker 1: have a problem. They now treat their base voters like 519 00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:02,400 Speaker 1: swing voters, which means they retune their messaging only to 520 00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:05,080 Speaker 1: appeal to voters they already have. Oh you gave me 521 00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:08,040 Speaker 1: a perfect segue, Mike, by the way, speaking why I'm here, 522 00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:11,360 Speaker 1: thank you. Speaking of Bass voters as swing voters. This 523 00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:15,560 Speaker 1: is sort of a minor obsession of of Lizz's and mine. Um. 524 00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:20,479 Speaker 1: Latinos Hispanic voters in the country, Um, which are a 525 00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:24,320 Speaker 1: critical part of the Democratic coalition. Barack Obama got about 526 00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:29,840 Speaker 1: two thirds of them in Hillary performed magnificently among them. 527 00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:35,120 Speaker 1: Biden saw a little bit of a dip among Latinos, 528 00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:39,800 Speaker 1: particularly as we remember Mike in South Florida and in Texas, 529 00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:44,360 Speaker 1: but he still got six of the Latino vote. Um, 530 00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:48,520 Speaker 1: there's a pull out this morning. We're recording this on Wednesday. 531 00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:50,680 Speaker 1: That is sending shock waves through a lot of the 532 00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:55,760 Speaker 1: political community. Yes, done by Biden's poster and Trump's polster 533 00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:59,880 Speaker 1: together that finds for the first time in a generation, 534 00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:05,200 Speaker 1: and that Hispanic voters are evenly split between the two parties, 535 00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:12,960 Speaker 1: which could have profoundly negative Consequencescrats. Yeah. So, um, Liz, 536 00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:15,880 Speaker 1: why don't we Let's let's first start by talking about 537 00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:18,680 Speaker 1: the term latin X, and then let's talk about the 538 00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:23,680 Speaker 1: broader problem. I'm so I am so sick of all 539 00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:27,280 Speaker 1: the ink that has been spelled spilled over this This 540 00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:32,120 Speaker 1: goddamn word you know, UM and latin x is like 541 00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:36,080 Speaker 1: the political equivalent of man splaining um. It is a 542 00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:42,440 Speaker 1: bunch of political operatives, people sort of in the nonprofit industry, 543 00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:47,640 Speaker 1: pushing this term that Latino people themselves don't use. And 544 00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:49,920 Speaker 1: I remember being on a campaign I'm not gonna say 545 00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:52,960 Speaker 1: which campaign, and there was a contingent of staff who 546 00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:55,880 Speaker 1: are demanding that we use the term latin X are 547 00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:59,160 Speaker 1: Latino Staffers were like, you cannot use this term because 548 00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:03,120 Speaker 1: we ourselves do not use this term um. And to me, 549 00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:07,480 Speaker 1: it is just indicative of um uh an issue with Democrats, 550 00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:11,560 Speaker 1: which is that we're seen as not caring about you know, people, UM, 551 00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:14,800 Speaker 1: that we're not in touch with people. And this bizarre 552 00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:19,000 Speaker 1: obsession we have with this word when voters tell us 553 00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:21,560 Speaker 1: over and over and over again not to use it, 554 00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:26,320 Speaker 1: speaks to this sometimes condescending image of Democrats that you know, 555 00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:30,360 Speaker 1: we know better that you know, that we're morally superior 556 00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:34,800 Speaker 1: to people. Um um. But more broadly, can I get 557 00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:37,280 Speaker 1: just more broadly about I think the issues with the 558 00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:41,200 Speaker 1: Latino vote. I started to see UM to have real 559 00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:47,560 Speaker 1: concerns in TwixT when Hillary's message to the Latino community 560 00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:52,440 Speaker 1: was just immigration, immigration, immigration. Um, Donald Trump is a racist, Uh, 561 00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:56,280 Speaker 1: he wants to build a border ball And I've worked 562 00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:59,640 Speaker 1: in Latino politics. I've worked with in Puerto Rican politics, 563 00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:02,880 Speaker 1: mantic in politics up here in New York. But the 564 00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:06,800 Speaker 1: Latino community is not a monolith, right. You've got Dominicans, 565 00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:11,080 Speaker 1: Puerto Ricans, Mexican Americans, Venezuelans, et cetera. And so we 566 00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:14,920 Speaker 1: cannot assume that every Latino voter cares about the same issues. 567 00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:18,640 Speaker 1: But immigration is not even in the top three issues 568 00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:23,480 Speaker 1: for uh, for Latino voters. Yet still Democrats put it 569 00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:26,960 Speaker 1: first and foremost when in all of our communications to 570 00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:30,800 Speaker 1: Latino voters. And we've got to understand, um that if 571 00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:33,280 Speaker 1: we want to win back Latino voters, we need to 572 00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:37,040 Speaker 1: talk to them about the economy, about small businesses. Um. 573 00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:40,120 Speaker 1: You know, the Latino community is was hit very, very 574 00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:42,400 Speaker 1: hard by COVID, and I think we've got to speak 575 00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:46,120 Speaker 1: to them more on those those issues. And one last point, 576 00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:51,200 Speaker 1: because I could go on about this forever, is um, 577 00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:54,840 Speaker 1: we need to realize that while all liberals might be Democrats, 578 00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:59,600 Speaker 1: not all democrats are liberals. And Hispanic Latino voters are 579 00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:04,280 Speaker 1: tradition way more socially conservative, more and frankly more economically 580 00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:08,359 Speaker 1: conservative um than you know. And the people who work 581 00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:11,759 Speaker 1: on campaigns, people like me and uh, we need to 582 00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:16,720 Speaker 1: understand that because issues like defund the police, um, issues 583 00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:20,239 Speaker 1: uh like the Green New Deal certainly did push away 584 00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:23,640 Speaker 1: Latino voters UM in areas like the Rio Grand Valley, 585 00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:27,480 Speaker 1: which is very dependent, which is very dependent. UM. Law 586 00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:29,560 Speaker 1: enforcement provides a lot of jobs to oil and gas 587 00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:36,719 Speaker 1: industry provides a lot of jobs, so and grant there. Um. 588 00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:39,560 Speaker 1: You know. I don't use the phrase latin X. I 589 00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:42,040 Speaker 1: agree with Liz about it. I prefer the phrase American 590 00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:46,879 Speaker 1: because it's back to the Republican thing of unified identities. Uh, 591 00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:50,560 Speaker 1: the American identity, that's the pre Trump. That's a bit 592 00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:53,279 Speaker 1: of the pre Trump repelic car of course, but look 593 00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:58,040 Speaker 1: look what the I a rare but huge mistake. I 594 00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:01,640 Speaker 1: watched the Biden campaign make and Brian you know about this. 595 00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:05,239 Speaker 1: I was very involved with Republican voters against Trump. We 596 00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:07,759 Speaker 1: were people talk about the Lincoln Project, we are the 597 00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:13,319 Speaker 1: grift free Yeah you you were involved, and we did 598 00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:15,080 Speaker 1: a lot of work in Florida state I know very 599 00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:18,600 Speaker 1: well from multiple governor and other campaigns for Jeb and others. 600 00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:22,160 Speaker 1: And when they sent Kamala Harris to Miami, I thought, 601 00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:24,919 Speaker 1: oh my god, they totally don't get it. They're going 602 00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:28,680 Speaker 1: down there with a voter of color argument, when if 603 00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:31,280 Speaker 1: you've worked Dade County politics like I have for twenty 604 00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:38,120 Speaker 1: five years, that is not the thing. Uh Hispanic huh 605 00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:42,040 Speaker 1: of going to the oldies been voters down there, Americans 606 00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:46,319 Speaker 1: of Hispanic heritage, Uh don't see themselves that way. They're 607 00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:50,840 Speaker 1: more conservative, particularly as liszt as socially conservative. They're very aspirational. 608 00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:54,440 Speaker 1: The index high for two wonderful things, creating their own 609 00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:57,360 Speaker 1: small businesses and enlisting in the military. And they have 610 00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:01,520 Speaker 1: family experience, particularly in Miami, because the different Florida markets 611 00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:06,480 Speaker 1: are different with dictatorships both in Venezuelan of course in Cuba, 612 00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:10,360 Speaker 1: and Biden had Cuba trouble from before being connected to Obama. 613 00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:13,120 Speaker 1: On that Biden was the one who needed to go. 614 00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:15,680 Speaker 1: If you look at the Wall Street Journal poll multiple times, 615 00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:19,080 Speaker 1: by the way, not send Kamala, who is a problem 616 00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:21,560 Speaker 1: to build that coalition because she tends to be a 617 00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:24,479 Speaker 1: one note candidate. If you look at that Wall Street 618 00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:29,520 Speaker 1: Journal poll. The real cut isn't Latino, Uh, non Latino, 619 00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:33,239 Speaker 1: it's gender. And that's the big cut through almost all 620 00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:35,920 Speaker 1: data now. And the other big cut is college educated. 621 00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:39,239 Speaker 1: So the Democrats have to stop looking. And I'm sorry 622 00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:41,080 Speaker 1: to be a broken record on this, but it's back 623 00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:43,520 Speaker 1: to my point about the Democratic Party is too important 624 00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:46,080 Speaker 1: for the Democratic leadership. They need to talk to their 625 00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:52,280 Speaker 1: own voters and understand that the sophisticates and the sociology 626 00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:54,920 Speaker 1: view of what makes a Democratic party is not the 627 00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:58,839 Speaker 1: political coalition that counts. And if they don't do that, 628 00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:02,359 Speaker 1: the bad clash against all that stuff is not only 629 00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:05,080 Speaker 1: going to scare swing voters in the suburbs back away, 630 00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:09,120 Speaker 1: it's gonna elect Trump again. Trump gets rocket fuel from 631 00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:14,040 Speaker 1: grievance to the Democratic identity grievances and and it's crazy, 632 00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:18,640 Speaker 1: but it's frustrating because I think the internal Democratic party 633 00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:21,359 Speaker 1: politics are heavily weighted that way. And last thing, this 634 00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:24,560 Speaker 1: is grumpy old campaign consultant hour here, and I'll shut 635 00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:31,880 Speaker 1: up after up. But okay, I'm a politician, so and 636 00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:35,080 Speaker 1: so a false promise. No if I read about another 637 00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:38,319 Speaker 1: Democratic campaign for staff revolt, because the twenty four year 638 00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:40,560 Speaker 1: olds are unhappy that we're not using Latin X on 639 00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:44,200 Speaker 1: the bumper stickers. No good high stakes campaign should spend 640 00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:47,320 Speaker 1: a lot of time listening to twenty four year olds. Um, 641 00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:49,600 Speaker 1: wait till they're thirty and they have experienced and listen 642 00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:53,799 Speaker 1: a lot, you know. Yeah, And I gotta tell you know, Mike, 643 00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:56,480 Speaker 1: I was talking with someone about this earlier today. It 644 00:37:56,600 --> 00:38:01,080 Speaker 1: is a problem, um that the Democratic campaigns are staffed 645 00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:05,440 Speaker 1: by people who aren't representative most voters, like I include myself, 646 00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:07,719 Speaker 1: and that I'm sitting here in my you know, duplex 647 00:38:07,719 --> 00:38:11,720 Speaker 1: in the West Village with my Dartmouth diploma probably somewhere 648 00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:14,439 Speaker 1: in one of my closets. And I'm very well aware 649 00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:16,560 Speaker 1: of that. And I think it's that's why it's important 650 00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:20,600 Speaker 1: to um not to one have diversity of thought in 651 00:38:20,640 --> 00:38:26,399 Speaker 1: these campaigns, but understand that we don't necessarily have all 652 00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:29,480 Speaker 1: the answers. And I think the four year old stafford 653 00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:32,520 Speaker 1: problem is an issue and it is sort of, I 654 00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:34,879 Speaker 1: think at times pathetic that you do have these high 655 00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:38,920 Speaker 1: profile campaigns sort of being held hostage by kids who 656 00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:43,200 Speaker 1: are just fresh out of Oberlin College. When we come 657 00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:47,280 Speaker 1: back more political issues. And yes, unfortunately the Donald Trump 658 00:38:47,320 --> 00:39:00,279 Speaker 1: of it all. Let's close with everyone's favorite topic, the 659 00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:05,479 Speaker 1: end of democracy and Donald Trump. UM. There's a study 660 00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:08,480 Speaker 1: that got a lot of attention this week. UM that 661 00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:10,799 Speaker 1: was referenced in a column on the Washington Post by 662 00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:15,520 Speaker 1: Dana Millbank and a data analytics company combed through more 663 00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:19,880 Speaker 1: than two hundred thousand articles from sixty five different news 664 00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:24,799 Speaker 1: websites across the ideological spectrum UH to basically analyze whether 665 00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:27,680 Speaker 1: stories were good stories, bad stories, or something in between 666 00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:30,240 Speaker 1: for Joe Biden and then compare it to the coverage 667 00:39:30,239 --> 00:39:35,000 Speaker 1: that Donald Trump got UH last year in and what 668 00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:38,640 Speaker 1: had found, amazingly enough, was that Biden's coverage was as 669 00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:43,600 Speaker 1: bad as Trump's, and sometimes worse. And and Millbank described 670 00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:47,799 Speaker 1: it this way. He said in Trump presided over a 671 00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:51,960 Speaker 1: worst in world pandemic response that caused hundreds of thousands 672 00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:55,279 Speaker 1: of unnecessary deaths, held a super spreader event at the 673 00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:58,719 Speaker 1: White House and got COVID nineteen himself, praised Q and 674 00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:03,120 Speaker 1: ON adherents, and raised violent white supremacists, waged a racist 675 00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:07,799 Speaker 1: campaign against Black Lives Matter demonstrators, attempted to discredit mail 676 00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:10,480 Speaker 1: and voting, refused to accept his defeat in a free 677 00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:13,640 Speaker 1: and fair election, leading eventually to the violence of January 678 00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:16,879 Speaker 1: six and causing tens of millions to accept the big lie, 679 00:40:17,360 --> 00:40:20,680 Speaker 1: the worst of more than thirty thousand lies Donald Trump 680 00:40:20,719 --> 00:40:24,879 Speaker 1: told an office. And yet Trump got press coverage as 681 00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:29,960 Speaker 1: favorable as or better then Joe Biden is getting today. Sure, 682 00:40:30,040 --> 00:40:33,520 Speaker 1: Biden's had his troubles with the Delta Varian, Afghanistan and inflation, 683 00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:37,759 Speaker 1: but the economy is rebounding impressively. He's signed major legislation, 684 00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:41,520 Speaker 1: He's restored some measure of decency, calm, and respect for 685 00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:47,279 Speaker 1: democratic institutions end quote. So my question is what do 686 00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:50,200 Speaker 1: we do about this? Is the press just not equipped 687 00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:56,080 Speaker 1: to handle an anti democratic, anti little d democratic, proto 688 00:40:56,239 --> 00:41:04,000 Speaker 1: authoritarian outlier like Donald Trump? And is that enabling his comeback? Liz, 689 00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:06,720 Speaker 1: let's start with you. Well, first of all, I'm always 690 00:41:06,719 --> 00:41:10,840 Speaker 1: skeptical of these stories that quote these like media analytic things. 691 00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:13,280 Speaker 1: It seems like it's always a sort of an advertisement 692 00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:16,960 Speaker 1: for them, and I'm not sure how accurate that is. UM. 693 00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:19,000 Speaker 1: So I don't want to put too much credence in 694 00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:22,640 Speaker 1: that I read the story, UM, but I think I 695 00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:26,880 Speaker 1: get the overall sentiment here, UM And I honestly I 696 00:41:26,880 --> 00:41:29,520 Speaker 1: have a really hard time believing that if you look 697 00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:32,680 Speaker 1: at all the TV coverage, all the cable coverage, that 698 00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:35,840 Speaker 1: the sentiment was more negative for Biden than for Trump. 699 00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:41,920 Speaker 1: Putting that aside, yeah, you know, I get data. Milbank's 700 00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:47,520 Speaker 1: point that, um, you know, uh, Joe Biden stumbling over 701 00:41:47,520 --> 00:41:50,200 Speaker 1: a word at a press conference or Kamala Harris using 702 00:41:50,440 --> 00:41:53,880 Speaker 1: non bluetooth ear phones is not the same thing as 703 00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:57,320 Speaker 1: Donald Trump, you know, whipping up his um supporters in 704 00:41:57,360 --> 00:42:00,120 Speaker 1: a frenzy and getting them to believe to storm the 705 00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:04,120 Speaker 1: capitol or to not accept the election result. And we 706 00:42:04,160 --> 00:42:09,880 Speaker 1: shouldn't equate those two things. Um uh. But you know, 707 00:42:09,960 --> 00:42:13,520 Speaker 1: it comes with the territory. Joe Biden, any any president 708 00:42:13,719 --> 00:42:16,600 Speaker 1: is going to get criticism in the press. Um. And 709 00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:19,640 Speaker 1: so I think that interesting comming on the Biden administration 710 00:42:19,719 --> 00:42:23,879 Speaker 1: to deal with it, um, and the press probably could 711 00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:26,160 Speaker 1: be a little bit more responsible and how they handle it, 712 00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:30,239 Speaker 1: how they handle Kevin McCarthy, how they handle these guys 713 00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:34,280 Speaker 1: who go on the Sunday shows and still are unwilling to, um, 714 00:42:34,320 --> 00:42:37,240 Speaker 1: you know, sack up and admit that Donald Trump lost 715 00:42:37,239 --> 00:42:40,080 Speaker 1: the election. So the press could be a little tougher there. 716 00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:44,080 Speaker 1: But you know, I think getting criticized comes with the 717 00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:47,959 Speaker 1: territory being president. And that's where I disagree a little 718 00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:50,760 Speaker 1: bit with what Milbank had to say. Mike. The premise 719 00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:53,680 Speaker 1: here is that the countries in this existential struggle not 720 00:42:53,800 --> 00:42:57,600 Speaker 1: between two parties, but between sort of democratic self governance 721 00:42:57,719 --> 00:43:03,200 Speaker 1: and an authoritarian alter native. Do you think that is correct? 722 00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:08,320 Speaker 1: I think it's oversimplified. I think that I'm with Lizza 723 00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:10,480 Speaker 1: mill big thing is a little specious. It's the term 724 00:43:10,520 --> 00:43:13,200 Speaker 1: paper thing again with the demigrants. Do oh, the media 725 00:43:13,239 --> 00:43:15,520 Speaker 1: gave Trump a B and we gotta be minus. So 726 00:43:15,880 --> 00:43:17,920 Speaker 1: the media's corrupt. How do we fix the media? That 727 00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:21,239 Speaker 1: sounds pretty authoritarian to me right there? Um, And I 728 00:43:21,280 --> 00:43:23,600 Speaker 1: don't know how they score this stuff. It is tricky. 729 00:43:24,040 --> 00:43:27,880 Speaker 1: A lot of the Trump and fractions were worse on 730 00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:31,720 Speaker 1: the existential scale, but they're also process. Liz is cats 731 00:43:31,760 --> 00:43:36,520 Speaker 1: disagree with you, Mike, by the way, vocal Yeah. The 732 00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:39,960 Speaker 1: cat's a big Elizabeth Warren supporter. And it sounds like 733 00:43:40,120 --> 00:43:46,040 Speaker 1: more trumpy and howling to me. I think set the 734 00:43:46,120 --> 00:43:51,000 Speaker 1: cat of blaze. Uh so you know it. And both 735 00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:53,719 Speaker 1: sides like to whine about their media coverage. The fact is, 736 00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:56,239 Speaker 1: here's what the press likes. It's the old Roger Ailes thing. 737 00:43:56,640 --> 00:43:59,760 Speaker 1: If your candidate cures cancer in the morning and falls 738 00:43:59,760 --> 00:44:02,400 Speaker 1: into an orchestra pit in the afternoon, the story is 739 00:44:02,440 --> 00:44:05,120 Speaker 1: going to be falling into the orchestra pit. And Biden 740 00:44:05,160 --> 00:44:11,200 Speaker 1: has had big, flashy breakthrough problems, the fleeing Calbool a 741 00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:16,160 Speaker 1: k A. Saigon and seventy five visual images, very big inflation, 742 00:44:16,360 --> 00:44:19,359 Speaker 1: price of gas at the pump, These new stickers I'm 743 00:44:19,360 --> 00:44:22,560 Speaker 1: seeing all over gas pumps. Joe Biden did this pointing 744 00:44:22,560 --> 00:44:26,160 Speaker 1: at the price. Um, those are meeting potato things. Well 745 00:44:26,200 --> 00:44:28,799 Speaker 1: Trump generated and I was on board. I mean, I've 746 00:44:28,840 --> 00:44:32,360 Speaker 1: hated Trump since I don't know where all these Johnny 747 00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:35,040 Speaker 1: come ladies. Ron was doing the governor New Jersey's campaigns 748 00:44:35,040 --> 00:44:37,520 Speaker 1: and he was a huge problem in Atlantic City. But anyway, 749 00:44:38,160 --> 00:44:40,719 Speaker 1: that Trump thing is one outrage after another to the 750 00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:43,839 Speaker 1: kind of the intelligentsia. Now I'm an elitist, I care 751 00:44:43,880 --> 00:44:48,160 Speaker 1: about the intelligentsia, um, But but I can understand how 752 00:44:48,640 --> 00:44:52,480 Speaker 1: the turbulence of Biden covid he caught the Delta variant, 753 00:44:52,480 --> 00:44:55,640 Speaker 1: which probably had equal media volume to the problems Trump had. 754 00:44:56,000 --> 00:44:58,759 Speaker 1: So I get the moral weighting that that Dana is 755 00:44:58,800 --> 00:45:02,279 Speaker 1: working on their that Trump is more systemically outrageous and 756 00:45:02,320 --> 00:45:05,560 Speaker 1: poisonous and toxic. But the fact that Biden is getting 757 00:45:05,560 --> 00:45:09,719 Speaker 1: crampy pressed to the press is in the crampy press business. Uh. 758 00:45:09,760 --> 00:45:12,200 Speaker 1: And you know, we know from psychological studies that a 759 00:45:12,200 --> 00:45:15,160 Speaker 1: grievance story will get seven times the click of any 760 00:45:15,200 --> 00:45:18,040 Speaker 1: other story, and they count those because they monetize them, 761 00:45:18,640 --> 00:45:22,480 Speaker 1: particularly the cable news business. Don't get me started. So 762 00:45:23,239 --> 00:45:25,520 Speaker 1: what what do we do about it? Well, that these 763 00:45:25,560 --> 00:45:27,200 Speaker 1: are the rules we have in the Democrats have to 764 00:45:27,239 --> 00:45:29,160 Speaker 1: learn how to play effectively on them and get out 765 00:45:29,160 --> 00:45:31,759 Speaker 1: of the narcissism of identity. That would be my first thing. 766 00:45:32,160 --> 00:45:36,960 Speaker 1: The second thing is do we have fundamental lose democracy problems? 767 00:45:36,960 --> 00:45:40,560 Speaker 1: Here is the premise of your question indicated. And I 768 00:45:40,600 --> 00:45:43,319 Speaker 1: think the country is far too ornery and far too 769 00:45:43,400 --> 00:45:46,880 Speaker 1: well armed to fall into dictatorship. But I do believe 770 00:45:47,239 --> 00:45:50,759 Speaker 1: we could be stuck in kind of a lost decade 771 00:45:51,400 --> 00:45:57,920 Speaker 1: of woke stoppo intolerant stupidity on the left and thuggery 772 00:45:58,080 --> 00:46:03,560 Speaker 1: and kind of a ashism light American style. USA Number one, 773 00:46:03,760 --> 00:46:06,720 Speaker 1: I don't take vaccines. We just beat up a college 774 00:46:06,719 --> 00:46:10,960 Speaker 1: professor in the parking lot for having fancy opinions about biology. 775 00:46:11,040 --> 00:46:13,520 Speaker 1: We could fall into that, and we're we're tickling the 776 00:46:13,560 --> 00:46:17,640 Speaker 1: whiskers of that now. And Trump is a big part 777 00:46:17,680 --> 00:46:20,719 Speaker 1: of it because he's got He's become the the the 778 00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:23,879 Speaker 1: deity of this kind of church of stupidity. Now, I'm 779 00:46:23,920 --> 00:46:26,520 Speaker 1: betting on the actuarial charts and some bad meat loaf 780 00:46:26,600 --> 00:46:29,359 Speaker 1: make cure the problem in the short term. And I'm 781 00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:32,000 Speaker 1: not sure there's anybody else who could fill that Trump void. 782 00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:36,560 Speaker 1: But yeah, we could get to our own American style 783 00:46:37,120 --> 00:46:41,920 Speaker 1: that is not a dictatorship, but our democracy will be 784 00:46:41,960 --> 00:46:50,040 Speaker 1: paralyzed by stupidity and wokeism versus thuggish authoritarian vibe stuff. 785 00:46:50,040 --> 00:46:52,040 Speaker 1: But does that mean the Congress is under arrest and 786 00:46:52,080 --> 00:46:54,880 Speaker 1: Trump sent a GENERALISSMO outfit or any of that. I 787 00:46:55,160 --> 00:46:59,239 Speaker 1: don't believe that. And also remember the power of the 788 00:46:59,280 --> 00:47:03,400 Speaker 1: state in the US UH to enforce anything is police 789 00:47:03,480 --> 00:47:08,240 Speaker 1: organism the military, and our military is a citizens army, 790 00:47:08,360 --> 00:47:11,000 Speaker 1: and they've taken off to the Constitution United States. I 791 00:47:11,040 --> 00:47:14,160 Speaker 1: have some faith in that institution. If things go too 792 00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:20,080 Speaker 1: far um to to UH to maintain UH constitutional order 793 00:47:20,080 --> 00:47:22,759 Speaker 1: in the US. I don't know that I'm quite as 794 00:47:23,239 --> 00:47:26,480 Speaker 1: optimistic as you are. Well, you're a democrat. It is 795 00:47:26,520 --> 00:47:28,360 Speaker 1: a be on the term paper. You're going great or 796 00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:32,080 Speaker 1: there's an f uh for democracy right now. And I 797 00:47:32,120 --> 00:47:34,600 Speaker 1: agree it's troubling, but maybe I'm more of an optimist. 798 00:47:34,600 --> 00:47:36,959 Speaker 1: It's a Republican thing. I hope you're right. I hope 799 00:47:36,960 --> 00:47:38,800 Speaker 1: you're right. I just I worry that the lesson that 800 00:47:38,880 --> 00:47:42,960 Speaker 1: Trump learned last time is you gotta surround yourself purely 801 00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:45,839 Speaker 1: with thugs and loyalists. That he doesn't care at all 802 00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:48,799 Speaker 1: about the laws of the norms of the institutions. The 803 00:47:48,880 --> 00:47:51,800 Speaker 1: presidents have enormous power, and that one thing we learned 804 00:47:51,800 --> 00:47:54,760 Speaker 1: over the course of the Trump presidency is that, um, 805 00:47:54,800 --> 00:47:58,120 Speaker 1: a lot of the limits are kind of tradition rather 806 00:47:58,200 --> 00:48:01,200 Speaker 1: than written into the law, and previous presidents wouldn't have 807 00:48:01,239 --> 00:48:04,759 Speaker 1: crossed certain lines that Trump has no problem crossing. And 808 00:48:04,800 --> 00:48:07,920 Speaker 1: the takeaway for him was that he wasn't aggressive enough, 809 00:48:07,960 --> 00:48:11,080 Speaker 1: that he didn't crush dissent within what he calls the 810 00:48:11,080 --> 00:48:13,879 Speaker 1: deep state and among his opponents enough. And I think 811 00:48:13,920 --> 00:48:17,560 Speaker 1: there's a a not insubstantial chance that he comes back. 812 00:48:18,040 --> 00:48:20,879 Speaker 1: And and what happens if if God forbid, he well, 813 00:48:21,120 --> 00:48:23,840 Speaker 1: he wins. No. Look, it is a fear in My 814 00:48:23,920 --> 00:48:26,920 Speaker 1: advice to the Democrats is not to wring hands about it, 815 00:48:26,960 --> 00:48:29,720 Speaker 1: but go nominate to Steve Bullock, now to Stacy Abrams 816 00:48:29,760 --> 00:48:32,160 Speaker 1: for president. Why don't you beat him at the election 817 00:48:32,239 --> 00:48:35,040 Speaker 1: with a strong candidate appeals to everybody, not just the 818 00:48:35,120 --> 00:48:38,279 Speaker 1: Democratic base. And what I was just gonna say, I 819 00:48:38,520 --> 00:48:40,920 Speaker 1: had a little bit of pushback to you might on 820 00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:44,560 Speaker 1: that is that when you're like, yes, does the squad 821 00:48:44,600 --> 00:48:48,240 Speaker 1: get the lion's share of press attention? They do, because 822 00:48:48,239 --> 00:48:50,279 Speaker 1: we know, as you said, what the press looks for. 823 00:48:50,480 --> 00:48:52,400 Speaker 1: You know, I don't think the processories a left or 824 00:48:52,480 --> 00:48:55,040 Speaker 1: right bias. They have a bias towards conflict, and the 825 00:48:55,040 --> 00:48:57,680 Speaker 1: squad gives them that. But you know, there, I think 826 00:48:57,680 --> 00:49:00,160 Speaker 1: the Democratic Party has filled a lot more with and 827 00:49:00,200 --> 00:49:05,640 Speaker 1: Mark Kelly's and UM the Center from Arizona, Colin Olvera, 828 00:49:05,840 --> 00:49:10,600 Speaker 1: the Congressman from Dallas, UM and moderates and people who 829 00:49:10,600 --> 00:49:15,000 Speaker 1: are much more in tuned with with Democrats. We shouldn't 830 00:49:15,080 --> 00:49:16,839 Speaker 1: give people the impression that it's all just I mean, 831 00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:21,840 Speaker 1: like Raphael Warnock and Georgia performed extraordinarily well, and I 832 00:49:21,840 --> 00:49:24,800 Speaker 1: think so I think Mike maybe underestimating Stacy Abrams is 833 00:49:24,840 --> 00:49:28,000 Speaker 1: as a political figure. But anyway, I take your point 834 00:49:28,080 --> 00:49:32,200 Speaker 1: about what the press focuses on and who the actual 835 00:49:32,320 --> 00:49:36,120 Speaker 1: legislators are. Yeah, I think Trump starts out if he's 836 00:49:36,160 --> 00:49:38,640 Speaker 1: nominated again, and I'm not locked into this camp that 837 00:49:38,680 --> 00:49:41,319 Speaker 1: he's running and it's all over. But if he's nominated, 838 00:49:41,920 --> 00:49:45,759 Speaker 1: the veritable that'll let Trump be defeated, as would be 839 00:49:45,880 --> 00:49:49,480 Speaker 1: natural or not, is going to be the Democratic nominee 840 00:49:49,640 --> 00:49:54,040 Speaker 1: who they choose, so the stakes couldn't be hired for 841 00:49:54,080 --> 00:49:56,560 Speaker 1: the Dems. And I worry again, I think their rank 842 00:49:56,600 --> 00:49:59,800 Speaker 1: and file voters get it. I worry about the culture 843 00:49:59,800 --> 00:50:03,720 Speaker 1: of the leadership in the Democratic Party. Yeah. I guess 844 00:50:03,760 --> 00:50:06,480 Speaker 1: my thing is I think that Trump is a fundamentally 845 00:50:06,560 --> 00:50:12,800 Speaker 1: lazy guy. Um, he's grifting, like I saw some numbers 846 00:50:12,800 --> 00:50:15,239 Speaker 1: on how much he was raising off of that fundraising list, 847 00:50:15,920 --> 00:50:18,439 Speaker 1: And if I had to make a prediction, it would 848 00:50:18,440 --> 00:50:21,239 Speaker 1: be that he's just gonna try to bankrupt all of 849 00:50:21,239 --> 00:50:26,280 Speaker 1: his supporters, run away with that money and not run again. Um, 850 00:50:26,360 --> 00:50:29,400 Speaker 1: but and probably wait till the last minute. So I 851 00:50:29,440 --> 00:50:32,319 Speaker 1: don't necessarily I could be very wrong, but I I 852 00:50:32,360 --> 00:50:34,680 Speaker 1: don't see him running again because again, I think he's 853 00:50:34,680 --> 00:50:37,480 Speaker 1: a fundamentally lazy person who cares mostly about money, and 854 00:50:37,520 --> 00:50:40,560 Speaker 1: he's got a perfect set up firm self right now. Well, 855 00:50:40,600 --> 00:50:42,759 Speaker 1: I think there's some truth to that, but he is 856 00:50:42,800 --> 00:50:46,840 Speaker 1: going to with the mind of a sixty five year old, cranky, racist, 857 00:50:47,400 --> 00:50:50,920 Speaker 1: high dollar private business donor. He's going to look at 858 00:50:50,960 --> 00:50:53,920 Speaker 1: the Democratic opponent that will drive a lout of his calculus. 859 00:50:53,960 --> 00:50:56,680 Speaker 1: So if it's somebody that looks like the Democratic base, 860 00:50:57,640 --> 00:51:00,280 Speaker 1: he'll be encouraged. If it's somebody who looks more like Aden, 861 00:51:00,400 --> 00:51:04,319 Speaker 1: he won't be That's my guess. A version of your take, 862 00:51:04,360 --> 00:51:06,600 Speaker 1: which I pretty much agree with. Well, as they say 863 00:51:06,600 --> 00:51:11,479 Speaker 1: on cable news, to be continued and we will see 864 00:51:11,560 --> 00:51:13,840 Speaker 1: you go. You put a button on it. I did. 865 00:51:14,200 --> 00:51:19,239 Speaker 1: I did ever so slightly um awkward, but still very good. Yeah, 866 00:51:19,239 --> 00:51:22,440 Speaker 1: thank you very much. In trouble, she'd better come back 867 00:51:22,440 --> 00:51:25,640 Speaker 1: from St. Bard's whatever and reclaim the throne here. She's 868 00:51:25,680 --> 00:51:30,400 Speaker 1: got competition, al right. Well, Murphy, Liz, thank you so 869 00:51:30,520 --> 00:51:34,359 Speaker 1: much for doing this and we'll talk soon. Thank you, 870 00:51:34,680 --> 00:51:39,640 Speaker 1: Thank you so thanks again to my guests, Mike Murphy 871 00:51:39,640 --> 00:51:43,400 Speaker 1: and Liz Smith. Mike has his own amazing political podcast 872 00:51:43,480 --> 00:51:46,680 Speaker 1: with David axel Rod and Robert Gibbs, which is called 873 00:51:46,760 --> 00:51:49,399 Speaker 1: hacks on tap. You can find it on all your 874 00:51:49,440 --> 00:51:54,040 Speaker 1: favorite podcast purveyors. You can also find him on Twitter 875 00:51:54,560 --> 00:51:59,400 Speaker 1: at Murphy Mike and find Liz on Twitter at Liz Smith. 876 00:51:59,440 --> 00:52:02,279 Speaker 1: But here's the hatch. Liz is spelled l I S, 877 00:52:02,600 --> 00:52:06,479 Speaker 1: not l I Z. I'm Brian Goldsmith. You can find 878 00:52:06,520 --> 00:52:09,879 Speaker 1: me at goldsmith be on Twitter. Thank you so much 879 00:52:09,920 --> 00:52:12,839 Speaker 1: for listening, and thank you Katie for having me on. 880 00:52:12,880 --> 00:52:15,480 Speaker 1: I'm sure your listeners are going to be quite relieved 881 00:52:15,480 --> 00:52:18,279 Speaker 1: to hear that you were on your way back. Oh 882 00:52:18,320 --> 00:52:21,480 Speaker 1: and by the way, everyone, if you haven't, please register 883 00:52:21,600 --> 00:52:25,480 Speaker 1: to vote. You can't really participate in our politics without voting. 884 00:52:25,520 --> 00:52:28,279 Speaker 1: Listening to the podcast isn't enough, so you can check 885 00:52:28,280 --> 00:52:30,759 Speaker 1: with your state or you can go to vote dot gov. 886 00:52:32,000 --> 00:52:34,680 Speaker 1: Thank you to both my guests, host Alison Roman and 887 00:52:34,760 --> 00:52:38,200 Speaker 1: Brian Goldsmith for helping me out. But now it's time 888 00:52:38,239 --> 00:52:41,719 Speaker 1: to pass the mic because I'm back, baby, and listeners, 889 00:52:41,800 --> 00:52:44,080 Speaker 1: I have such a treat for you. I hope it's 890 00:52:44,080 --> 00:52:45,879 Speaker 1: a treat. It was a treat for me to put 891 00:52:45,880 --> 00:52:48,759 Speaker 1: it together. Next week, I'm sharing an intimate look at 892 00:52:48,800 --> 00:52:52,239 Speaker 1: my book tour, the highlights, the low lights. Actually, there 893 00:52:52,280 --> 00:52:56,080 Speaker 1: weren't any special guests, and so much more that's next 894 00:52:56,080 --> 00:53:04,040 Speaker 1: week on Next Question. Next Question with Katie Kurik is 895 00:53:04,080 --> 00:53:07,920 Speaker 1: a production of iHeartMedia and Katie Couric Media. The executive 896 00:53:07,920 --> 00:53:12,600 Speaker 1: producers Army, Katie Couric, and Courtney Litz. The supervising producer 897 00:53:12,680 --> 00:53:17,680 Speaker 1: is Lauren Hansen. Associate producers Derek Clements, Adrianna Fasio, and 898 00:53:17,840 --> 00:53:22,480 Speaker 1: Emily Pinto. The show is edited and mixed by Derrek Clements. 899 00:53:22,520 --> 00:53:25,440 Speaker 1: For more information about today's episode, or to sign up 900 00:53:25,480 --> 00:53:28,160 Speaker 1: for my morning newsletter, wake Up Call, go to Katie 901 00:53:28,200 --> 00:53:30,920 Speaker 1: Currek dot com. You can also find me at Katie 902 00:53:30,920 --> 00:53:34,600 Speaker 1: Curic on Instagram and all my social media channels. For 903 00:53:34,680 --> 00:53:37,839 Speaker 1: more podcasts from I Heart Radio, visit the I Heart 904 00:53:37,920 --> 00:53:41,440 Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen to your 905 00:53:41,480 --> 00:53:42,280 Speaker 1: favorite shows,