WEBVTT - BONUS: The Rishi Sunak Interview

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to in the City, Bloomberg's podcast, connecting you to

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<v Speaker 1>the conversations and the stories shaping the world of finance.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm Francine Laqua. Here's my conversation with the Prime Minister,

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<v Speaker 1>Rishie Sunek. Prime Minister, thank you so much for speaking

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<v Speaker 1>to Bloomberg. Now, you've announced some twenty nine billion pounds

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<v Speaker 1>of new investments. Investors of course see opportunities, partly because

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<v Speaker 1>they think that it's actually cheap and has further to grow.

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<v Speaker 1>But then there's also things that they worry about, the

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<v Speaker 1>reversal of AHAs two, your stance on the European Court.

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<v Speaker 1>How do you address some of those questions they have

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<v Speaker 1>for you.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, first of all, we're excited to be hosting our

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<v Speaker 2>Global Investment Summit and it's our welcome to business event.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm also very pleased, as you mentioned, we have secure

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<v Speaker 2>commitments of almost thirty billion pounds of investment. That's more

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<v Speaker 2>than double, if not triple, what we had when we

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<v Speaker 2>last held this summit. So I think that's an enormous

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<v Speaker 2>vote of confidence in the UK and it comes on

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<v Speaker 2>the back of a very positive autumn statement that we

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<v Speaker 2>just delivered with Signify can support for business. I think

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<v Speaker 2>there's real momentum in the UK economy. You're seeing that

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<v Speaker 2>we're tangible commitments from investors at a scale we haven't

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<v Speaker 2>seen before. So looking we're poys to have a very

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<v Speaker 2>positive day.

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<v Speaker 1>So premnise to Jeremy Hunt framed the item statement as

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<v Speaker 1>a pathway to growth, and yet the OBR from their

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<v Speaker 1>forecast for next year in twenty twenty five, do you think.

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<v Speaker 3>The OBR is being too conservative?

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<v Speaker 2>Look, the story of the UK is an economy that

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<v Speaker 2>has got real momentum. So I've been Prime Minister for

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<v Speaker 2>just over a year. During that time, we've halved inflation

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<v Speaker 2>as I said we would do. We've known now that

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<v Speaker 2>the UK economy has recovered faster from the pandemic than

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<v Speaker 2>pretty much any other major European economy, and over the

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<v Speaker 2>long term we're still forecast to outperform major European economies.

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<v Speaker 2>But crucially, business investment has grown faster than any other

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<v Speaker 2>G seven economy over the last few years. And I

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<v Speaker 2>think ultimately, if you want to drive growth and productivity

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<v Speaker 2>and an economy, you need businesses to be investing. We

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<v Speaker 2>have more momentum for business investment here than anywhere else.

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<v Speaker 2>So look I feel actually very positive about the long

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<v Speaker 2>term growth outlook for the UK.

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<v Speaker 1>So do you think the OBR is actually going to

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<v Speaker 1>have to revise them up words? Are you confident that

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<v Speaker 1>the numbers will come in so that you can continue

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<v Speaker 1>cutting tax?

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<v Speaker 2>What I can tell you is that when I became

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<v Speaker 2>Prime Minister just over a year ago, not just the OBER,

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<v Speaker 2>but also the Bank of England, the OECD and the IMF,

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<v Speaker 2>all of them predicted that the UK would be in

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<v Speaker 2>recession this year. That hasn't happened. We put in place

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<v Speaker 2>a set of policies to ensure that it didn't and

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<v Speaker 2>I'm delighted the UK economy has outperformed all of those

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<v Speaker 2>and has grown this year better than anybody thoughts. So look,

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<v Speaker 2>I've got a track record in outperforming what people think,

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<v Speaker 2>and they, as I said, the UK economy has real

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<v Speaker 2>momentum now, inflation has been halved, business investment is growing

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<v Speaker 2>faster than elsewhere, and has said We've got commitments totally

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<v Speaker 2>almost thirty billion pounds for our summit. It's significantly more

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<v Speaker 2>than we've had in the past. So I think that

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<v Speaker 2>shows that investors and companies are voting with their pounds

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<v Speaker 2>and their dollars, and that shows that there is confidence

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<v Speaker 2>in the economy, and that's what makes me think we're

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<v Speaker 2>poised for strong growth.

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<v Speaker 1>But pretty much if you look at inflation, if you

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<v Speaker 1>actually exclude energy, it's about you been down by like

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<v Speaker 1>a fifth. So I don't know how much credit the

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<v Speaker 1>government can actually take on.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, actually, if you look at core inflation, it's pretty

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<v Speaker 2>much middle of a pack for European economies. Forecast next

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<v Speaker 2>year to be lower than the Eurozone, and I think

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<v Speaker 2>in the US the last numbers I checked, So actually

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<v Speaker 2>the momentum on inflation is downwards and coming down faster

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<v Speaker 2>than peers over the course of the next twelve months.

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<v Speaker 2>If you look at the forecast, and we're making sure

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<v Speaker 2>that we are disciplined with borrowing, ultimately what investors are

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<v Speaker 2>looking at to make sure that fiscal policy is sensible.

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<v Speaker 2>We're not fueling the inflationary fire. We're being sensible on

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<v Speaker 2>public sector wage settlements. And actually you're seeing that feed

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<v Speaker 2>through to the economy. And I said, we're also improving

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<v Speaker 2>labor supply. If I talk to businesses, you know what

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<v Speaker 2>they're keen to see is access to labor. We're making

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<v Speaker 2>sure that our labor market remains flexible, that we're moving

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<v Speaker 2>people off welfare and into work. All of those things

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<v Speaker 2>are contributing to I think downward momentum on inflation premiercure.

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<v Speaker 1>If the OBR is actually right in the forecast, what

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<v Speaker 1>does it mean where you can actually find some spending

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<v Speaker 1>freeze or actually cuts.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, what we've just delivered are significant tax cuts, significant

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<v Speaker 2>tax cuts for business, significant tax cuts for everybody in work.

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<v Speaker 2>That's what our autumn statement last week did. I the

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<v Speaker 2>biggest tax cuts in one event since the nineteen eighties.

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<v Speaker 2>Just to give people a sense of scale. For business,

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<v Speaker 2>what we're doing is making full expensing permanent, so we

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<v Speaker 2>will be the only major at G seven economy certainly

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<v Speaker 2>and even broader than that, where you get a total

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<v Speaker 2>rite off against your taxes for capital investment. That's an

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<v Speaker 2>incredibly generous regime to attract business investment. And it comes

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<v Speaker 2>on top of the fact that our corporation tax right

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<v Speaker 2>here is lower than any other G seven economy. And

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<v Speaker 2>when it comes to individuals in work, we've just delivered

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<v Speaker 2>a very significant personal tax cut that will put four

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<v Speaker 2>hundred and fifty pounds extra in the bank accounts of

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<v Speaker 2>a typical person in work over the next twelve months,

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<v Speaker 2>which will also be good for consumption as well.

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<v Speaker 1>That you have to find money in, for example, departments

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<v Speaker 1>where you know that voters actually want you to spend

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<v Speaker 1>more in certain departments. So are you comfortable as possibly

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<v Speaker 1>being Prime Minister of austerity.

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<v Speaker 2>No, that's simply not the case. Actually, government spending in

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<v Speaker 2>the UK right now is at very high levels historically

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<v Speaker 2>over this parliament, it's grown at very high levels even

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<v Speaker 2>in real terms after the impact of inflation. So I

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<v Speaker 2>think any commentary or accusation that's what's happening is just

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<v Speaker 2>simply unfounded. And we're at a point now, given how

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<v Speaker 2>people are feeling, given the amount that's being spent, where

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<v Speaker 2>I think the priority has got to be luring the

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<v Speaker 2>tax burden. Government's already spending a lot of people's money,

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<v Speaker 2>and what we need to see going forward is more

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<v Speaker 2>productivity out of the public sector needs to match what

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<v Speaker 2>we've seen in the private sector post COVID, and I'd

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<v Speaker 2>rather focus on efficiency in the public sector and prioritize

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<v Speaker 2>cutting people's taxes rather than the government spending ever more

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<v Speaker 2>of their money. That's the point I think, and I'm

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<v Speaker 2>very clear that that is the choice that we are making.

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<v Speaker 1>But even if the voter doesn't necessarily feel that tax

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<v Speaker 1>cuts because of inflation going up, So how much more

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<v Speaker 1>can you cut taxes in April and beyond, Well.

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<v Speaker 2>It wouldn't be right to speculate on future events. We're

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<v Speaker 2>just still digesting the one we've had, which, as I said,

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<v Speaker 2>delivered the biggest tax cuts since any event since the

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<v Speaker 2>nineteen eighties. But what I have said is that this

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<v Speaker 2>is the start of a journey. And you know I

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<v Speaker 2>meant that when I said after we got inflation down,

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<v Speaker 2>I wanted to focus on making sure that we reward

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<v Speaker 2>people's hard work, making sure that we grow the economy

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<v Speaker 2>and responsibly cutting taxes. And you know, when we can

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<v Speaker 2>do more, we will, because that's the direction of travel

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<v Speaker 2>here now.

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<v Speaker 1>Premier, is a r Wonda flight taking off before the

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<v Speaker 1>election actually critical to your message to voters or will

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<v Speaker 1>bringing down the immigration numbers be enough?

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<v Speaker 3>Well?

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<v Speaker 2>I think the British people's priority is to stop the

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<v Speaker 2>votes to stop illegal migration. That's why at the beginning

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<v Speaker 2>of this year, when I set out five key priorities

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<v Speaker 2>I had, one of them was to deliver on that.

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<v Speaker 2>And I'm really pleased that since I said that, we've

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<v Speaker 2>managed to cut the numbers by a third. Now, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>when I got this job, they had gone up and

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<v Speaker 2>up and up. They'd actually quadrupled in the past few years.

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<v Speaker 2>But for the first time, they're now coming down, and

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<v Speaker 2>not down by little, down by a lot, down by third,

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<v Speaker 2>when in the rest of Europe they're going up. So

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<v Speaker 2>we're making progress. But I do want to deliver on

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<v Speaker 2>our Rwanda plan because that's how we will finish the job.

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<v Speaker 2>And we're going to do everything that I deem necessary

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<v Speaker 2>to make that happen.

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<v Speaker 1>Prime Minister, will you publish a treaty and bill and Rwanda,

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<v Speaker 1>and will the bill actually contain this notwithstanding class so

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<v Speaker 1>you can ignore future legal judgments.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, what I've been very clear on is that

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<v Speaker 2>we will address all the concerns that the courts have

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<v Speaker 2>raised about Rwanda. Would gently point out that the United

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<v Speaker 2>Nations themselves have used Rwanda for migrant resettlement schemes in

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<v Speaker 2>the past, and we've worked with the Rwandan government to

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<v Speaker 2>put in place a treaty which will reassure everyone and

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<v Speaker 2>address all the concerns that have been raised. And then

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<v Speaker 2>Parliament will be given the opportunity to scrutinize that and

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<v Speaker 2>also demonstrate that it believes that Rwanda is safe for

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<v Speaker 2>this time.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, what does that mean, Prime Minister, that you will

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<v Speaker 1>push it even if it means going against the European courts.

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<v Speaker 2>I think we can act completely in compliance with our obligations,

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<v Speaker 2>and that's very much the approach we've taken so far.

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<v Speaker 2>Some objections and concerns have been raised by our court.

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<v Speaker 2>We will address all of those and then make it

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<v Speaker 2>crystal clear that our Parliament, which of course is sovereign

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<v Speaker 2>in these matters, will be able to scrutinize that and

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<v Speaker 2>then actually determine that Rwanda is safe.

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<v Speaker 3>How will you decide when you call an election?

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<v Speaker 2>Again, that's something that we announce in.

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<v Speaker 3>The normal way. But is there a trigger point? Are

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<v Speaker 3>you looking at a certain.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, I really am not focused on elections. I'm

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<v Speaker 2>really just focused on delivering on the things that I

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<v Speaker 2>said I would do for the British people, and that is,

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<v Speaker 2>now that we've harved inflation, we can turn onto cutting taxes,

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<v Speaker 2>rewarding hard work. It's also about growing the economy. That's

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<v Speaker 2>what our support and tax cuts for business were about

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<v Speaker 2>last week. Also tackling a legal migration, stopping the votes

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<v Speaker 2>where we've made good progress already with more to come.

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<v Speaker 2>These are all the things I'm focused on. And also,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, we've taken some big decisions here about a

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<v Speaker 2>more pragmatic approach to net zero, for example, which is

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<v Speaker 2>something that I think is right that we've got to

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<v Speaker 2>bring people with us on that journey. We've got to

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<v Speaker 2>save working families money as we do it. So you know,

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<v Speaker 2>we're doing some big things that are making a big

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<v Speaker 2>difference to people, and I want to make sure that

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<v Speaker 2>we deliver on the premier.

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<v Speaker 1>You've also taken a hard line, of course on rising

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<v Speaker 1>anti semitism in the UK. The White House has denounced

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<v Speaker 1>Elon Musk for what happened and on exit in the

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<v Speaker 1>last couple of days.

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<v Speaker 3>Do you do the same?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Look, I don't tend to get in the business

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<v Speaker 2>of scrutinizing what every single person says who I've interacted with.

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<v Speaker 2>Of Course, I bore anti Semitism, and as you said,

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<v Speaker 2>we've been unequivocal from the start of this situation that

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<v Speaker 2>that is not acceptable in our society, and we've been

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<v Speaker 2>very firm about that. I've personally been very firm about

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<v Speaker 2>that it's very sad what is happening, but are as

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<v Speaker 2>I said, I condemn all anti semitism right, it's not

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<v Speaker 2>about any one particular personality. I condemn anti semitism in

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<v Speaker 2>a prime minister well, and as I said, I condemn

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<v Speaker 2>anti semitism in all its forms. It doesn't matter whether

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<v Speaker 2>you're Elon Musk or you're someone on the street who's

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<v Speaker 2>shouting abuse at someone who happens to be walking past you.

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<v Speaker 2>That's wrong in all its forms. Anti Semitism in all

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<v Speaker 2>its forms is completely and utterly wrong, and we have

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<v Speaker 2>strong laws in place here to tackle racial hatred. People

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<v Speaker 2>are inciting it. Some of the scenes we've seen have

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<v Speaker 2>been unacceptable and the police know that they should be

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<v Speaker 2>using the full force of their powers to bring those

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<v Speaker 2>people to justice. That's what we've been very clear about

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<v Speaker 2>and that's what we will continue to do. And we've

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<v Speaker 2>made sure that the Jewish community gets extra funding here

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<v Speaker 2>to ensure their safety and security, and we will continue

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<v Speaker 2>to do that.

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<v Speaker 1>Preming sure, what kind of plan do you have for Gaza,

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<v Speaker 1>When do you think the fighting will start? And can

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<v Speaker 1>the UK actually be involved in the peacekeeping role afterwards?

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<v Speaker 2>You know, we've been consistently clear during this awful tragedy

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<v Speaker 2>that Israel does have a right to defend itself, it

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<v Speaker 2>should do that in accordance with humanitarian law. And we've

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<v Speaker 2>also consistently called for sustained humanitarian pauses where aid can

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<v Speaker 2>get in, but also hostages can come out. And I'm

0:10:41.480 --> 0:10:43.520
<v Speaker 2>glad that that is now happening, and I think all

0:10:43.559 --> 0:10:45.199
<v Speaker 2>of us will have seen some of the scenes over

0:10:45.240 --> 0:10:47.560
<v Speaker 2>the past day or two and found that very heartening.

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<v Speaker 2>It's important that everyone honors the agreement and we can

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<v Speaker 2>continue to see more progress, and we will be continuing

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<v Speaker 2>to taught to all our partners in the region, whether

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<v Speaker 2>that's the Americans, is really easy Egyptians, the Katari Is

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<v Speaker 2>to make sure that we can see this through.

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<v Speaker 3>Is the UK still for a two state solution.

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<v Speaker 2>Always has been and can will continue to be, and

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<v Speaker 2>we need to redouble our efforts towards that, and that's

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<v Speaker 2>something we've been very clear about and I spoke to

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<v Speaker 2>the Palestinian president when I visited the region specifically about this.

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<v Speaker 2>The UK will do everything it can to help the

0:11:17.200 --> 0:11:21.000
<v Speaker 2>Palestinian authority. We do need to look to the future

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<v Speaker 2>of Gaza post to mass and actually make sure that

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<v Speaker 2>everyone in the region can look forward to a future

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<v Speaker 2>where they can live lives of dignity and security and opportunity.

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<v Speaker 2>That's the vision that I think all of us share,

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<v Speaker 2>but we've got to redouble our efforts to bring that about.

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<v Speaker 3>Prime Minister, Thank you so much for your time.

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<v Speaker 1>Thank you very much, thanks for listening to this bonus

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<v Speaker 1>edition of In the City. This episode was hosted by

0:11:42.840 --> 0:11:46.679
<v Speaker 1>me Francin Laquin. It was produced by Summersati, additional editing

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<v Speaker 1>by Blake Maples and special thanks to the Bloomberg team

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<v Speaker 1>for putting this interview together, and of course a Prime

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<v Speaker 1>Minister for his time.