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Speaker 1: Acupuncture changed my life. It can change yours too, and

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Speaker 1: really there's no downside to trying it right. It's not

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Speaker 1: a medication, it's not a surgery. That's what I love

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Speaker 1: so much about acupuncture is that there's really no downside

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Speaker 1: to it. You know.

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Speaker 2: I was trying to think the other day about when

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Speaker 2: I started using the word hurdlers, and it was really

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Speaker 2: early on, but I don't have an exact origin story.

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Speaker 2: I digress to the intro. Emily A Badi here, what's

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Speaker 2: going on hurdlers? You are listening to another episode of Hurdle,

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Speaker 2: a Wileness focus podcast where I connect with everyone from

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Speaker 2: your favorite athletes to top experts and industry CEOs about

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Speaker 2: their highest hies, toughest moments, and everything in between. We

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Speaker 2: all go through hurdles in life, and my goal through

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Speaker 2: these discussions is to empower you to better navigate yours

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Speaker 2: and move with intention so that you can stride towards

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Speaker 2: your own big potential and of course have some fun

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Speaker 2: along the way. For today's episode, I am chatting with

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Speaker 2: Teddy Levarda. He's a licensed acupuncturist. He's also the owner

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Speaker 2: of Morningside Acupuncture here in Manhattan. I have been going

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Speaker 2: to see Teddy for about a month now on my

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Speaker 2: what feels like never ending journey to navigate planter fasciitis,

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Speaker 2: and I have learned so much, which is exactly why

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Speaker 2: the last time that I was in his office, I

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Speaker 2: asked him if he would be oh so kind and

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Speaker 2: come on the pod to talk all about acupuncture. And

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Speaker 2: that's exactly what we do in today's episode. In today's chat,

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Speaker 2: Teddy and I get into the origins of acupuncture, the

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Speaker 2: different types of acupuncture, what you can expect heading to

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Speaker 2: your first and second sessions, and of course subsequent to that,

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Speaker 2: plus the different types of ailments, situations, pains, whatnot that

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Speaker 2: acupuncture can treat. Like I said this time around, although

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Speaker 2: I have done acupuncture before shout out to Mollie at

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Speaker 2: eight point wellness, I am using it for a very

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Speaker 2: specific issue planter fasci itis, but individuals use acupuncture to

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Speaker 2: treat all different sorts of situations from pain to chronic illness.

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Speaker 2: We talk about fertility and so much more. Plus the

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Speaker 2: big question that everybody wanted to know about on social media,

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Speaker 2: does acupuncture hurt or what does it feel like? Spoiler alert?

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Speaker 2: We talk all about that too. Now really exciting here

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Speaker 2: Teddy and Morningside are giving five listeners that are local

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Speaker 2: to New York a free acupuncture session. The details on

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Speaker 2: how to win your session are going to be posted

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Speaker 2: on the Hurdle Instagram account that's over at Hurdle Podcast,

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Speaker 2: and the winners will be announced on Monday, January thirtieth,

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty three. So for all of the information on

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Speaker 2: how you can win a free acupuncture session at Morningside Uptown.

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Speaker 2: If you happen to be local to New York, head

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Speaker 2: on over to at Hurdle Podcast on Instagram. Make sure

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Speaker 2: you're also following along with me over at Emily Body.

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Speaker 2: And if you're not yet doing so, subscribe to the

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Speaker 2: Weekly Hurdle newsletter. It comes out every single Friday, bringing

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Speaker 2: a lot of the same motivation and inspiration you love

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Speaker 2: from the show directly to your inbox. And while you're there,

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Speaker 2: don't hesitate to share the Weekly Hurdle with a friend.

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Speaker 2: That's it for now.

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Speaker 3: With that, let's get to it. Let's get to hurdling.

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Speaker 2: Today. I am sitting down with Teddy Levarda. He is

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Speaker 2: the founder of Morningside Acupuncture. He's also a licensed acupuncturist

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Speaker 2: How are you doing, Teddy.

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Speaker 1: I'm doing great. Hello everyone in Emily. Thanks so much

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Speaker 1: for having me today. I'm really excited to talk about

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Speaker 1: acupuncture and answer any questions that you have.

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Speaker 2: Have you done a podcast before.

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Speaker 1: I've done a couple Instagram lives before. This is my

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Speaker 1: first podcast, so to speak.

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Speaker 2: How does it feel?

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Speaker 1: It's exciting. I mean, getting to talk about acupuncture and

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Speaker 1: educate people about it has been super fun since I

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Speaker 1: started doing this.

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Speaker 2: So how long have you been doing it?

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Speaker 1: So? You know, acupuncture school was three years long. I

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Speaker 1: started that in twenty sixteen. I graduated in twenty nineteen,

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Speaker 1: and it'll be almost four years now that I'm on

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Speaker 1: my own. And you know, I had a whole nother

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Speaker 1: career before acupuncture. I worked in finance for almost I

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Speaker 1: think it was nine or ten years, and then had

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Speaker 1: such an amazing experience with acupuncture personally that I I

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Speaker 1: had to abandon my career, go to school for three years,

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Speaker 1: and you know, take a chance on being an acupuncturist.

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Speaker 2: Well, we need to hear what happened.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So you know it started back when I was

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Speaker 1: in my mid twenties. I was working in finance, like

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Speaker 1: a really crazy you know, like ten to twelve hour

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Speaker 1: job in a chair was really stressful. I wasn't allowed

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Speaker 1: to take breaks. And I was also playing a lot

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Speaker 1: of soccer, and I was more of a runner than

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Speaker 1: I am now back then, and I was training for

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Speaker 1: the New York City Marathon in twenty ten, and during

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Speaker 1: my training I started to have like hip pain, back pain.

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Speaker 1: I tore my hamstring during my training. That was a

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Speaker 1: couple months before the race. I ended up doing the marathon,

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Speaker 1: not as well as I would have liked, because you know,

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Speaker 1: I had that injury. And then the next year I

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Speaker 1: started playing soccer again, running more, and I started get

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Speaker 1: this clicking in my hip. Turned out I had a

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Speaker 1: laborum tear in my hip. It was probably from all

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Speaker 1: the running and stress. I spent about a year or

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Speaker 1: two just going around between different types of treatment. I tried,

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Speaker 1: you know, physical therapy, strength training. I went to the

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Speaker 1: Worth pedic doctor, had a cortzone injection. I tried traditional acupuncture,

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Speaker 1: which you know works for a lot of things, but

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Speaker 1: I needed a different kind of acupuncture which I later

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Speaker 1: stumbled upon. You know, I tried magnet therapy, gyratronic yoga, pilates, swimming,

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Speaker 1: you know I could name like all these weird things

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Speaker 1: that you know, you just go online and you're like,

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Speaker 1: what can help with my back or hip pain? And

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Speaker 1: you're just desperate for answers. And I really didn't want

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Speaker 1: to get surgery. And then I actually discovered a different

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Speaker 1: style of acupuncture. Because there are a lot of different

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Speaker 1: styles which we'll probably get into. I discovered more of

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Speaker 1: like a trigger point type of acupuncture, or it can

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Speaker 1: be called dry needling. It has a lot of names.

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Speaker 1: Myofascial release, you know, it's essentially like a deep tissue

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Speaker 1: release with an acupuncture needle. And that like literally changed

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Speaker 1: my life, you know, working on like my glutes and

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Speaker 1: my hip flexers and I just had chronic tightness from

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Speaker 1: sitting all day and playing soccer, both of those things

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Speaker 1: and running. All those things stressed your hips quite a bit.

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Speaker 1: And by loosening that up, like my hip pain went away.

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Speaker 1: I had gone to hip surgeon and he said, you know,

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Speaker 1: you're playing soccer four times a week. I know it's

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Speaker 1: really painful, but you're twenty five, and the longer you

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Speaker 1: can prolong surgery, you know, the better off you'll be.

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Speaker 1: He's like, I had just found this type of acupuncture.

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Speaker 1: He's like, keep trying it, like see how it feels.

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Speaker 1: And honestly, I never went back to him because within

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Speaker 1: a few months my hip pain like decreased significantly. And

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Speaker 1: then I kept seeing this acupuncturist for you know, the

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Speaker 1: same issues, but just getting deeper into working through it

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Speaker 1: and was actually getting a treatment one day and I

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Speaker 1: was like, huh, acupuncture. It's like this guy's life must

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Speaker 1: be so interesting. He like literally changed my life. He

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Speaker 1: probably does this with other people. And at that point,

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Speaker 1: I was like, I wonder how all this works, Like

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Speaker 1: why did this get better? Like why didn't anyone else

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Speaker 1: know about this? Why is this? Why am I like

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Speaker 1: two years into having pain before discovering this? And I

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Speaker 1: just became like super interested and I asked him. I

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Speaker 1: was like, how long is acupuncture school? And I was

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Speaker 1: just assuming he was going to say, like, oh, it's

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Speaker 1: like six months. It's like a certificate, you know, That's

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Speaker 1: what I thought it was, and I think that's what

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Speaker 1: most people think. And he's like, no, it's a three

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Speaker 1: year master's And I was like wow, really, like that

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Speaker 1: sounds legitimate. That's like a high barrier to entry. Not

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Speaker 1: anyone can just like go and do it. He you know,

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Speaker 1: he sounded really knowledgeable about like my muscles and what

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Speaker 1: was going on with me. And then I was like, oh,

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Speaker 1: where did you go to school? And he mentioned the

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Speaker 1: school tri State College of Acupuncture. And there's another school,

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Speaker 1: Pacific College. Those are like the two main schools, and

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Speaker 1: I went to visit them. My wife at the time,

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Speaker 1: we were just dating, and she was super supportive of like,

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Speaker 1: you know, like, if you really want to do it,

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Speaker 1: I'll go with you to the open house. And we

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Speaker 1: went together, and you know, then I went to acupuncture school.

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Speaker 2: Wow. Wow, that's you know, it's so interesting that that

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Speaker 2: was kind of where your curiosity led you, because it's

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Speaker 2: awesome that we often have the opportunity to get profoundly

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Speaker 2: impacted by a range of professionals in our life. But

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Speaker 2: you were profoundly impacted so much so that you decided

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Speaker 2: to make a major career pivot.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. And it was, you know, I was at a

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Speaker 1: point in my finance career where I had, you know,

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Speaker 1: I was like moving jobs every couple of years hoping

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Speaker 1: that there would be some better fit. I really just

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Speaker 1: didn't like the life lifestyle, and I just wanted more

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Speaker 1: freedom in my life and the idea of being an acupuncturist.

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Speaker 1: Like I have my own business. I get to set

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Speaker 1: my own hours, I get to decide what I do

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Speaker 1: and don't do, And I really like that aspect of

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Speaker 1: being a business owner. Although it is stressful. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: really enjoy the flexibility. I love that.

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Speaker 2: I love that. So upon getting into acupuncture school, was

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Speaker 2: it what you thought that it was going to be?

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Speaker 1: I think yes and no. I think it was harder

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Speaker 1: than I thought it would be. There's just so many

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Speaker 1: layers to acupuncture, and you know, like I discovered how

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Speaker 1: many different types of acupuncture are because I think we're

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Speaker 1: you know, especially in this country, we just see that

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Speaker 1: one type where people set needles in and you rest

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Speaker 1: and you don't feel that much and you come out

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Speaker 1: of the treatment wondering like did anything really happen? I'm

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Speaker 1: not really sure? And that you know that it's called

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Speaker 1: traditional Chinese medicine style acupuncture. It works really well, like

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Speaker 1: with your nervous system, and it does help you feel

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Speaker 1: more calm, It helps with digestion, it can help with fertility,

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Speaker 1: you know, headaches, general stress, but that works more subtly,

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Speaker 1: and for me, it was like stumbling across these other styles.

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Speaker 1: We were trained in that style, a Japanese style that

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Speaker 1: is a lot more gentle and uses smaller needles, and

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Speaker 1: its practiced by a lot of blind acupuncturists in Japan

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Speaker 1: because it's a lot based more on feel, and you know,

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Speaker 1: my acupuncture practice is more informed by touch, Like before

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Speaker 1: I do the treatment, I feel different areas of your body,

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Speaker 1: and not all types of acupuncture do that. Sometimes it's

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Speaker 1: just like, oh, your back hurts, I'm not really going

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Speaker 1: to touch it. I'm just going to put needles in

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Speaker 1: these points and let you rest. And then there's the

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Speaker 1: trigger point style. That is really what drew me to

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Speaker 1: acupuncture school. And in some states, you know, that's more

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Speaker 1: in the dry needling realm, and being in New York,

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Speaker 1: only acupuncturists can do that type of treatment. So that's

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Speaker 1: kind of what led me to go to acupuncture school too.

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Speaker 1: It was like, I want to do what this guy does.

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Speaker 1: I want to you know, I want to treat people

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Speaker 1: like he treated me. And acupuncture is an interesting profession

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Speaker 1: because it was a very eclectic group of students. In

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Speaker 1: our class, there were a lot of few people just

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Speaker 1: straight out of school, a few people like me that

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Speaker 1: were like second career people, and then there were some

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Speaker 1: people who are older there, kids were going to college

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Speaker 1: and they just like wanted a new career. And for

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Speaker 1: most of us, like we had some really profound experience

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Speaker 1: with acupuncture because it's not the type of profession that's like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to go be a doctor. Oh I'm going

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Speaker 1: to be a police officer. It's just like, oh, like

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Speaker 1: I didn't I didn't even know it existed until I

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Speaker 1: was like twenty five years old. So it was a

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Speaker 1: really cool group. And then that also when I'm treating

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Speaker 1: other patients, like oftentimes I've had some of the pain

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Speaker 1: that they have, so it's like I think it just

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Speaker 1: provides like another layer of empathy and like, you know,

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Speaker 1: I know what the treatment feels like, I know you

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Speaker 1: know what it feels like afterwards, and I know psychologically

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Speaker 1: what you're going through dealing with, you know, chronic pain.

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Speaker 1: So it was a really fun experience.

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Speaker 2: So you listed a couple of different types of acupuncture,

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Speaker 2: traditional Chinese acupuncture. You also mentioned trigger points, So for

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Speaker 2: the listener, let's sum up the most popular types of acupuncture.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so you know the reality is that there are

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Speaker 1: probably hundreds or thousands of styles of acupuncture. You know,

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Speaker 1: it originated over two thousand years ago in China, and

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Speaker 1: really until not that long ago, it wasn't really standardized.

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Speaker 1: It was more of like kind of like martial arts,

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Speaker 1: where there's like family lineage of like the master and

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Speaker 1: the apprentice, and there's like secret you know, points and

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Speaker 1: secret things that you know only like you learn if

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Speaker 1: you learn from the master. And that's how acupuncture was

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Speaker 1: for a long period of time. And then it became

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Speaker 1: more standardized with like the opening of acupuncture schools, and

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Speaker 1: then traditional Chinese medicine is actually more of a modern thing.

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Speaker 1: I forget which decade, but in the nineteen some things,

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Speaker 1: you know, China went through like a medical revolution where

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Speaker 1: they started implementing like Western medicine more and kind of

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Speaker 1: abandoned Chinese medicines for some time. And I think it

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Speaker 1: was under Mau he decided to like bring back some

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Speaker 1: traditional Chinese medicine, but more in like an americanized, standardized way,

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Speaker 1: where like you know, if you have a cough, there's

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Speaker 1: like an acupuncture point prescription, and there's like an herbal

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Speaker 1: medicine prescription. And it was kind of like revived in

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Speaker 1: that sense, but it was like more standardized where they're like,

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Speaker 1: you know, I don't remember when, but they like had

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Speaker 1: names of points and channels and it became a lot

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Speaker 1: more standardized than it was originally. And then it spread

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Speaker 1: to Japan and Korea, you know, they have their own

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Speaker 1: different types of acupuncture, to Vietnam, and then eventually made

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Speaker 1: its way to Europe, so there's like a whole French

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Speaker 1: style of acupuncture. Then it reached like the UK, and

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Speaker 1: then you know, as it is, it reached like Europe.

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Speaker 1: In the US, there are like these new like medicalized

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Speaker 1: styles of acupuncture, and you know, the trigger point stuff

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Speaker 1: kind of falls in that realm. There's a style called

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Speaker 1: medical acupuncture. There is Western acupuncture. There's trigger point acupuncture,

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Speaker 1: dry needling, and effectively like you know, traditional acupuncture looks

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Speaker 1: more of like acupuncture meridians and chi and energy and

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Speaker 1: the idea that like there are energy blockages and you

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Speaker 1: free them up with acupuncture needles. That sounds really confusing

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Speaker 1: and esoteric to a lot of people. And what a

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Speaker 1: lot of these Western styles have done now that we

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Speaker 1: have like the ability to do research and like hook

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Speaker 1: people up to machines and see what's happening in their body.

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Speaker 1: There are actually a lot of good physiological explanations of

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Speaker 1: what happens when you stick an acupuncture needle in, and

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Speaker 1: you know it does some things like release pain endorphins

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Speaker 1: and reduce stress, and you know, in the case of

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Speaker 1: trigger point work like release muscle nuts and deact trigger points.

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Speaker 1: And you know, now, like I'm more in the vein

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Speaker 1: of like when I explain treatment to patients, it's more

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Speaker 1: of like in a physiological and Western sense. There are

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Speaker 1: a lot of acupunctures who are more esoteric and talk

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Speaker 1: about liver energy and chi and you know, really what

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Speaker 1: those are our metaphors for the human body. And it's

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Speaker 1: not a surprise that like the stuff we found with

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Speaker 1: trigger points really overlaps the traditional stuff because you're really

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Speaker 1: looking at the same at the same body.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, So is there a difference between the trigger

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Speaker 2: point acupuncture as you describe it and dry needling.

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Speaker 1: Really the difference is who's doing it right. So if

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Speaker 1: an acupuncturist is releasing trigger points, it might be called

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Speaker 1: trigger point acupuncture. Dry needling is a coin a term

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Speaker 1: that was coined a few decades ago, and it's probably

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Speaker 1: interesting to talk about the history of it, because you know,

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Speaker 1: in its current form, dry needling uses acupuncture needles. So

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Speaker 1: that's why there's this whole thing of like is it acupuncture,

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Speaker 1: is it not acupuncture? And effectively what it is today

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Speaker 1: is using an acupuncture needle to find and release trigger points.

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Speaker 1: And trigger points are hyper irritable bands of muscle that

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Speaker 1: cause either local or referred pain in a specific pattern.

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Speaker 1: This kind of research started in the thirties and forties,

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Speaker 1: and there's a doctor Janet Trevelle is like the most

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Speaker 1: famous one. She was doctor Kennedy's physician, and she was

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Speaker 1: a physiatrist and I think a cardiologist, and she was

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Speaker 1: really interested in understanding muscle pain. So what they did

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Speaker 1: in the early research was inject irritants into muscles and

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Speaker 1: then study where the pain referral traveled to, and then

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Speaker 1: they mapped all this stuff out, so like, for instance,

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Speaker 1: if you have pain in the top of your shin,

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Speaker 1: those muscles connect to your toes and your feet and

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Speaker 1: you can actually get like big toe pain from your

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Speaker 1: tibilis interior muscle being tight. So they found that by

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Speaker 1: sticking a hypodermic needle in with medication and injecting it

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Speaker 1: into the trigger point, they would relieve the pain. And

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Speaker 1: fast forward a few decades, I think it was the seventies.

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Speaker 1: They you know, if you ever got a flu shot,

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Speaker 1: sometimes they put it in your shoulder and your muscle twitches.

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Speaker 1: So they discovered that it wasn't just the medication that

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Speaker 1: was leaving the paint, it was the muscle spasm that

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Speaker 1: happened when the hypodermic needle went in. So then that's

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Speaker 1: where the term dry needling came from. Is they started

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Speaker 1: to release trigger points with a hypodermic needle, which you

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Speaker 1: could imagine is extremely painful leaves like bruising, bleeding, I

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Speaker 1: mean even just getting one injection sometimes you get that.

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Speaker 1: And so then there were some acupuncturists some were also

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Speaker 1: physicians as well, like mds, who started thinking, look, why

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Speaker 1: don't we just use an acupuncture needle to do this.

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Speaker 1: It won't leave, you know, as many side effects, it

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Speaker 1: won't bruise and hurt, it's more tolerable. And if it

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Speaker 1: really is just the muscle twitch, then we don't need

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Speaker 1: to use any medication. And so that's how the modern

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Speaker 1: form of dry needling came about. So it's a little

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Speaker 1: complicated because in one sense it does use an acupuncture needle.

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Speaker 1: In another sense, it originates in a totally different paradigm

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Speaker 1: that did not rely on she and energy and meridian.

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Speaker 1: So it's a really cool fusion of like when acupuncture

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Speaker 1: meets like you know, western physiology, and so dry needling

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Speaker 1: now is practiced by a lot of professions, right, And

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Speaker 1: what's really cool about acupuncture, like in this moment, is

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Speaker 1: there's so much interest in it. You know, acupuncturers have

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Speaker 1: to go to school for three years and get licensed

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Speaker 1: and board certified, but actually other professions that like mds

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Speaker 1: can get certified in acupuncture, dentists, chiropractors, pts, you know,

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Speaker 1: nurse practitioners, occupational therapists, athletic trainers in some states, and

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Speaker 1: you know for some of them, they don't call it

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Speaker 1: acupuncture because if they did, they wouldn't be allowed to

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Speaker 1: practice it. So this term dry needling came about to

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Speaker 1: really describe like using an acupuncture needle by non acupuncturists,

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Speaker 1: and not in a way that's like in the Chinese

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Speaker 1: medicine realm.

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Speaker 2: If someone is going to someone who's not a licensed

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Speaker 2: acupuncturist to get dry needling. What should they be checking

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Speaker 2: that this person.

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Speaker 1: Has I mean, in reality, it would be checking for

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Speaker 1: how long they've been doing it for. Because the training

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Speaker 1: standards for non acupuncturist is much lower. In some states

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Speaker 1: there are none, it's like a gray area. In other

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Speaker 1: states it's like twenty to one hundred hours. I think

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Speaker 1: one hundred is the most training. If an MD is

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Speaker 1: doing it. In New York, for instance, they need three

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Speaker 1: hundred hours of hands on training, which is pretty good.

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Speaker 1: And I think that's my biggest issue with non acupuncturists

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Speaker 1: using needles is often if they've done you know, I've

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Speaker 1: done an entire dry need link course that physical therapist

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Speaker 1: do was eighty hours, three weekends. We needled each muscle

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Speaker 1: in the body once or twice, and then we never

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Speaker 1: really did a supervised treatment. So my biggest issue is

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Speaker 1: that like there you're just going out in the world

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Speaker 1: after a few weeks and you haven't really had like,

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Speaker 1: you know, acupunctory school. We were in the clinic two

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Speaker 1: years doing supervised treatments on real patients with teachers guiding us,

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Speaker 1: and by the time I graduated, I was like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I know what I'm doing. I'll be fine, right, And

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Speaker 1: I think one thing patients will notice is the difference

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Speaker 1: of like when the needle goes in, because you probably

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Speaker 1: asked that again, but whether it hurts when the needle

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Speaker 1: goes in, and if an acupuncturist or someone who's really

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Speaker 1: good at using the needle is doing it, that you

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Speaker 1: shouldn't really feel that pinchy feeling when they all goes in.

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Speaker 1: It's really when someone isn't as well versed that you

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Speaker 1: might feel that a little more teddy.

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Speaker 2: You're doing my job for me, you're asking yourself of

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Speaker 2: my question. I mean, we were definitely going to get here,

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Speaker 2: So I'm glad that you run pain when it comes

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Speaker 2: to acupuncture. Now, let me just say I am someone

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Speaker 2: who growing up up until this point I'm in my

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Speaker 2: mid thirties, I have never quote unquote been good with

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Speaker 2: needles in that like, if I get a shot, I

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Speaker 2: just don't look at it. When I was little young,

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Speaker 2: it was like the thing my mother dreaded doing was

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Speaker 2: bringing me to the doctor's office to get any sort

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Speaker 2: of injection. So with that said, I definitely the first

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Speaker 2: time I went to acupuncture, which was a few years

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Speaker 2: ago with a different professional, was very hesitant on it.

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Speaker 2: I just had my own qualms about what I was

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Speaker 2: getting into. I will say, as someone now who has

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Speaker 2: done acupuncture with multiple professionals, it does not hurt. Maybe

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Speaker 2: I'm a little biased, maybe people can be a little

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Speaker 2: bit more sensitive, But to your point, if you're going

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Speaker 2: to someone who knows what they're doing, and they have

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Speaker 2: the training, and they have a good rapport with clients

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Speaker 2: who recommend them highly, then you're going to be in

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Speaker 2: pretty good hands.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think you touched on a few things.

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Speaker 1: One I think the biggest hesitation is just this fear

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Speaker 1: of me that we have. I mean, I don't look

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Speaker 1: when I get my flu shot, I don't like getting

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Speaker 1: my bloodron and I'm an acupuncturist. And then I think,

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Speaker 1: and I see like my three year old, right, I

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Speaker 1: take her to the doctor to get her flu shot

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Speaker 1: or a COVID shot, and you know, she's like terrified

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Speaker 1: the moment we're going in because she knows like it's

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Speaker 1: kind of gonna hurt. And so I think some of

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Speaker 1: that is like a trauma of like, you know, it's

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Speaker 1: not fun to get a shot that does hurt. It's

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Speaker 1: not fun to get your blood drawn. It feels weird.

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Speaker 1: So I think when people hear the word needles for acupuncture,

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Speaker 1: they assume it's the same kind of needle, right, A

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Speaker 1: hypodermic needle has fluid in it, and also that feeling

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Speaker 1: of either fluid going in or out can feel I don't,

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Speaker 1: I don't like that feeling. And so like, acupuncture needles

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Speaker 1: are ten times thinner. They're not filled with any fluid.

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Speaker 1: They're like the thickness of a human hair, and they

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Speaker 1: don't hurt when they go in because they're so thin.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, there is some sensation with acupuncture, especially like

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Speaker 1: the trigger point or dry needling stuff, because you know,

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Speaker 1: the goal there is to like make your muscle spasm

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Speaker 1: so that it releases the trigger point or the tightness there.

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Speaker 1: But even that, like you know, the word pain can

430
00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:02,560
Speaker 1: be very very complicated, right, because it's very subjective. Right,

431
00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:05,200
Speaker 1: So usually to me, pain is sharp, burning and stabbing,

432
00:21:05,320 --> 00:21:07,760
Speaker 1: that kind of in the vein of that sensation, something

433
00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:12,280
Speaker 1: that's like dull achy heavy, even like muscly, like muscle soreness,

434
00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:14,440
Speaker 1: Like would you call that pain? Some people would say

435
00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:16,560
Speaker 1: muscle soreness is painful, and some would just say, like

436
00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:19,639
Speaker 1: it's a strong sensation, right, And I think acupuncture falls

437
00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:21,760
Speaker 1: more in the vein, or it should of like it's

438
00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:24,640
Speaker 1: a sensation. It can be strong sometimes, but I wouldn't.

439
00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:27,760
Speaker 1: It's not supposed to be like sharp, burning, stabbing, electrical

440
00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:31,639
Speaker 1: like that kind of sensation. So I think, I think,

441
00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:34,600
Speaker 1: you know, it's complicated, and there's multiple layers of people

442
00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:37,240
Speaker 1: are scared of needles. And I was terrified the first

443
00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:40,720
Speaker 1: time I had acupuncture. I went to like a person

444
00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:43,240
Speaker 1: in Queens who did traditional acupuncture, and they did not

445
00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:45,480
Speaker 1: explain what they were doing or why they were doing it.

446
00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:47,560
Speaker 1: And my mom brought me there and was like this

447
00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:49,960
Speaker 1: person helped somebody and you should go there. And I

448
00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:51,919
Speaker 1: was just terrified. And then she was doing the treatment.

449
00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:53,720
Speaker 1: I had no idea what I was supposed to feel

450
00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:56,920
Speaker 1: before or during after. So for me personally, I spend

451
00:21:56,960 --> 00:22:01,040
Speaker 1: a lot of time with patients explaining why we're doing

452
00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:03,000
Speaker 1: the treatment, what the goal is, what it's going to

453
00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:06,200
Speaker 1: feel like, all of that, because that actually helps prime

454
00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:09,080
Speaker 1: your brain from when I'm doing the treatment that when

455
00:22:09,119 --> 00:22:11,400
Speaker 1: I'm needling, you can relax, right, because if I tell

456
00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:14,119
Speaker 1: you like, you're going to feel a strong, heavy muscle

457
00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:16,159
Speaker 1: aake when I work on your trapezius muscle. It might

458
00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:18,879
Speaker 1: feel almost like a little cramp sometimes if it's really strong.

459
00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:22,040
Speaker 1: When it happens, your brain has a sensation it's new.

460
00:22:22,359 --> 00:22:24,720
Speaker 1: So one thing our brain does when we something new

461
00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:26,960
Speaker 1: happens is we go into that like defense mechanism like

462
00:22:27,119 --> 00:22:29,640
Speaker 1: is this normal? Is it okay? And then if I've

463
00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:32,600
Speaker 1: explained it to you, that sensation happens and then you're like, oh,

464
00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:35,600
Speaker 1: that's what he said, Okay, that's normal. But if I

465
00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:37,520
Speaker 1: don't say anything, then you can get into that place

466
00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:39,600
Speaker 1: of anxiety of like, oh my god, is that normal?

467
00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:41,080
Speaker 1: Should I tell him? Oh my god? Does he know

468
00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:43,040
Speaker 1: what he's doing? Why did I come here? Your brain

469
00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:44,840
Speaker 1: goes in this spiral of like and then it's like,

470
00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:46,320
Speaker 1: oh my god, there are needles, and it can get

471
00:22:46,359 --> 00:22:49,080
Speaker 1: it can like it can devolve very quickly. So like

472
00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:52,520
Speaker 1: it's really important to build rapport and trust. And often

473
00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:54,400
Speaker 1: I make it sound worse than it's going to sound,

474
00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:56,760
Speaker 1: because it's like a consent thing of like if I

475
00:22:57,119 --> 00:22:59,119
Speaker 1: tell you you're going to be sore, really sore, and

476
00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:01,000
Speaker 1: you might feel some strong sensation and then you don't

477
00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:02,440
Speaker 1: feel that, You're like, oh, that was a lot better

478
00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:03,840
Speaker 1: than he said, at least the kind of know what

479
00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:05,080
Speaker 1: could happen?

480
00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:14,240
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527
00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:13,400
Speaker 2: here is the after effects of a treatment. You said

528
00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:15,880
Speaker 2: you could be sore. So before we get into perhaps

529
00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:20,760
Speaker 2: the effects of having acupuncture, why don't we chat about

530
00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:24,760
Speaker 2: the potential benefits of acupuncture. Why is it that someone

531
00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:26,760
Speaker 2: might seek out an acupuncturist.

532
00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:29,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, there's a lot of reasons. Acupuncture treats

533
00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:32,639
Speaker 1: a range of things. I mean, before Western medicine and China,

534
00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:36,240
Speaker 1: acupuncture with herbal medicine was like an entire medical system

535
00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:41,359
Speaker 1: that can treat anything like pain, digestive issues, sleep issues, malaria,

536
00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:44,040
Speaker 1: Like I learned how to treat malaria and acupuncture school,

537
00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:46,959
Speaker 1: because like in the traditional Chinese medicine textbooks, that's what

538
00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:49,320
Speaker 1: was used, and obviously I don't treat that here because

539
00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:51,520
Speaker 1: you would go to a doctor or hospital. But like

540
00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:55,040
Speaker 1: the point is it can treat literally anything, and acupuncture

541
00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:58,320
Speaker 1: tends to work better for like physical complaints. Like in

542
00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:01,680
Speaker 1: the US, pain is probably the prime or reason, whether

543
00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:04,720
Speaker 1: it's like chronic pain or acute pain or muscle tightness.

544
00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:08,560
Speaker 1: That's like and especially for me, that's my specialty is pain.

545
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:11,040
Speaker 1: And then also I work a lot with physical symptoms

546
00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:13,719
Speaker 1: of stress. So we're talking about like the nervous system

547
00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:17,240
Speaker 1: a lot. And when we get into that elevated nervous

548
00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:19,600
Speaker 1: system state, we can have like a fight or flight response,

549
00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:21,240
Speaker 1: or we can have like a freeze response. And there

550
00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:24,800
Speaker 1: are physiological changes that happen when our nervous system is

551
00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:27,920
Speaker 1: like activated too much. When we go into that fight

552
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:30,240
Speaker 1: or flight state, our heart rate speeds up, our digestion

553
00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:34,080
Speaker 1: shuts down, sexual function kind of turns off, our muscles

554
00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:37,480
Speaker 1: get really tense. We're like on like alert for danger.

555
00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:39,159
Speaker 1: And that's like you know, if you're getting chased by

556
00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:42,120
Speaker 1: a tiger, it's like a survival you're in like survival mode.

557
00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:44,760
Speaker 1: And you know, sometimes when people have acute chronic stress,

558
00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:48,480
Speaker 1: they have digestive issues, sleep issues, fertility issues, and acupuncture

559
00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:51,280
Speaker 1: works really great with the nervous system to calm things down.

560
00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:53,119
Speaker 1: It activates the other side of that, which is the

561
00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:56,879
Speaker 1: parasympathetic nervous system, and really what that's seeking is like

562
00:27:56,960 --> 00:28:00,000
Speaker 1: making you feel safe, right, and acupuncture can like active

563
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:05,080
Speaker 1: bid endorphins and you know, other stress relieving chemicals. So

564
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:07,720
Speaker 1: that's how generally how traditional acupuncture tends to work, and

565
00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:09,479
Speaker 1: that's why it works for so many things, and that's

566
00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:12,320
Speaker 1: why treatments look similar because it's really working with like

567
00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:15,879
Speaker 1: getting you back to homeostasis, like from your nervous system.

568
00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:18,480
Speaker 1: And then there's the other side, which is like even

569
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:21,119
Speaker 1: more physible, which is the trigger point work. You know,

570
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:25,200
Speaker 1: that's a totally different objective, which is to find muscle

571
00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:27,679
Speaker 1: tightness and trigger points release that tightness so that you

572
00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:31,280
Speaker 1: have less pain, more mobility, and you know, and restored

573
00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:35,119
Speaker 1: muscle function essentially so that you know, that feels different

574
00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:38,680
Speaker 1: afterwards because with that muscle spasm, there's like a release

575
00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:41,600
Speaker 1: of chemicals that happens, and it's not necessarily from the needle,

576
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:44,719
Speaker 1: it's more from the spasm. Because to back up, when

577
00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:48,760
Speaker 1: you get muscle tightness, you know, your muscle is essentially contracted.

578
00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:51,520
Speaker 1: It doesn't get as much blooder oxygen, so the pH

579
00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:54,440
Speaker 1: drops and then all these pain and inflammatory chemicals get

580
00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:57,720
Speaker 1: sent to tell you that something's wrong. And that's essentially

581
00:28:57,720 --> 00:28:59,840
Speaker 1: what pain is. It's a signal. Pain is something that

582
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:03,920
Speaker 1: often we treat with blocking pain, right, take this pill

583
00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:06,600
Speaker 1: or get this injection, and really pain is meant to

584
00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:08,920
Speaker 1: tell us like, hey, something's wrong here. I'm trying to

585
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:11,440
Speaker 1: like tell you, like hello, look at me, like I

586
00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:14,840
Speaker 1: need some some you know, I need some attention here.

587
00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:18,280
Speaker 1: And so acupuncture works more with like listening to those

588
00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:21,840
Speaker 1: signals and trying to restore balance either to your nervous

589
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:25,600
Speaker 1: system or like physically through trigger point work. And that's

590
00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:26,600
Speaker 1: really what the goal is.

591
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:29,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, And so we talked about soreness being something that

592
00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:33,200
Speaker 2: could happen as a result of getting acupuncture done. What

593
00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:35,600
Speaker 2: else might happen after your acupuncture session.

594
00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:37,560
Speaker 1: In a lot of cases, you'll feel a lot more

595
00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:41,520
Speaker 1: relaxed after, especially for activating that nervous system response. People

596
00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:44,320
Speaker 1: tend to walk out feeling really relaxed and lighter. And

597
00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:46,560
Speaker 1: you know, sometimes you can feel kind of tired afterwards,

598
00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:48,480
Speaker 1: especially if you've been carrying a lot of tension and

599
00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:50,200
Speaker 1: we've you know, helped release some.

600
00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:54,680
Speaker 2: Of that is hydration important after a treatment. Yeah, yeah,

601
00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:56,320
Speaker 2: I think I feel like they always say that to me.

602
00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:59,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, drink extra water because so that helps, especially if

603
00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:02,680
Speaker 1: we're talking about like least seing neurotransmitters or soreness chemicals, right,

604
00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:05,240
Speaker 1: it helps kind of flush things out and promote like

605
00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:07,920
Speaker 1: fluid metabolism and circulation. So yeah, I always tell people

606
00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:10,760
Speaker 1: drink extra water if we're doing muscle work to like

607
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:12,760
Speaker 1: same thing you do after a workout, because the soreness

608
00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:15,680
Speaker 1: after like a trigger point treatment, it'll feel like workout soreness.

609
00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:19,800
Speaker 1: So hot hot shower, muscle cream, ebbs, some salt bath,

610
00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:22,360
Speaker 1: extra water, you know, light on the exercise till the

611
00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:24,680
Speaker 1: soreness goes away, is usually what I tell people.

612
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:26,520
Speaker 2: Right, because after you do like a leg workout, you

613
00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:28,480
Speaker 2: wouldn't in the next day like go do another heavy

614
00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:30,640
Speaker 2: leg workout. So it's something to be cognizant of if

615
00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:32,120
Speaker 2: you're getting that area treated.

616
00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:34,200
Speaker 1: Right, And that's exactly how I describe it to people,

617
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:36,480
Speaker 1: Like it's fine to exercise, but if you're really sore,

618
00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:38,800
Speaker 1: just like treat it like you did a workout.

619
00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:43,520
Speaker 2: Okay, So knowing that then you mentioned before the buzzword fertility,

620
00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:46,520
Speaker 2: which leads me to the question, is there a certain

621
00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:50,640
Speaker 2: time when individuals should maybe be wary of coming to

622
00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:54,200
Speaker 2: an acupuncturist because you say fertility, I think pregnancy. Is

623
00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:56,160
Speaker 2: it safe for pregnant women or are there other things

624
00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:58,840
Speaker 2: that you might want to take into consideration before coming

625
00:30:58,880 --> 00:30:59,400
Speaker 2: for treatment.

626
00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:01,680
Speaker 1: With the types of things, it's important to tell your

627
00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:04,000
Speaker 1: acupuncturists if you are pregnant, because there are certain areas

628
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:05,479
Speaker 1: of the body you don't want to work on, like

629
00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:07,080
Speaker 1: in the belly or in the low back.

630
00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:07,440
Speaker 2: Well.

631
00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:10,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, and also in traditional acupuncture, there are certain acupuncture

632
00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:12,840
Speaker 1: points that are stimulating and they've actually done research can

633
00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:15,440
Speaker 1: like stimulate uterine contraction, so you want to avoid those

634
00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:18,680
Speaker 1: while you're pregnant. Acupuncture is also used for like labor prep,

635
00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:22,480
Speaker 1: so sometimes if someone's like overdue or late, they will

636
00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:24,480
Speaker 1: go to an acupuncturist and they'll do some of those

637
00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:27,720
Speaker 1: more stimulating points, and there are some research that shows

638
00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:30,040
Speaker 1: that it can help like smooth delivery, and even like

639
00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:32,160
Speaker 1: I've had some friends who have said I got had

640
00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:35,320
Speaker 1: acupuncture and then I like gave birth right after. And

641
00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:38,240
Speaker 1: you know, with fertility, it's a lot about like regulating

642
00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:42,320
Speaker 1: the menstrual cycle before like before conception, because if that's

643
00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:44,800
Speaker 1: thrown off, then your ability to like fertilize an egg

644
00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:48,280
Speaker 1: is impacted. So often acupuncture and herbal medicines use a

645
00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:51,120
Speaker 1: lot with fertility as well. It can be really really,

646
00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:54,920
Speaker 1: really really effective because especially coming off birth control, there

647
00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:57,000
Speaker 1: can be some side effects and like your period is

648
00:31:57,000 --> 00:32:00,840
Speaker 1: impacted because it's been altered, you know, through the medication.

649
00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:05,200
Speaker 1: And so really fertility work is a lot about the

650
00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:07,480
Speaker 1: menstrual cycle and also like the nervous system. Right, we

651
00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:10,440
Speaker 1: were talking about what happens from physical symptoms of stress,

652
00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:12,880
Speaker 1: and it does affect your menstrual cycle. And then women

653
00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:15,120
Speaker 1: who are like athletes that run a lot that also

654
00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:18,520
Speaker 1: impacts the menstrual cycle. So with fertility it's often about

655
00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:21,200
Speaker 1: like managing stress and like working on the menstrual cycle.

656
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:23,479
Speaker 1: And then once you're pregnant, there are common things that

657
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:27,320
Speaker 1: come up, like you know, nausea, morning sickness, especially in

658
00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:29,920
Speaker 1: the early stages. Acupuncture can help with that. There are

659
00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:32,000
Speaker 1: some cases of morning sickness like that my wife had

660
00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:35,080
Speaker 1: that like nothing works for and it just it just sucks. Yeah,

661
00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:37,200
Speaker 1: and then later on, you know, you'll get like psyatica

662
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:40,440
Speaker 1: pain in the second and third trimester, and acupuncture is

663
00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:41,840
Speaker 1: really great for that because you can need a like

664
00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:44,600
Speaker 1: into the hips when you're pregnant, and especially it's really

665
00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:47,280
Speaker 1: just the glutes especially that get super tight. Yeah, yeah,

666
00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:49,600
Speaker 1: during that stuff. So yeah, it can be really great

667
00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:50,480
Speaker 1: for that kind of stuff.

668
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:53,160
Speaker 2: Something that's been interesting for me has been working with

669
00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:55,880
Speaker 2: multiple experts at once. So I started coming to you

670
00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:57,840
Speaker 2: because I'm dealing with this planter fascy, I guess, and

671
00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:00,920
Speaker 2: you came highly recommended, and so I'm working with you.

672
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:03,960
Speaker 2: I'm also working with a pd PT and the diadrist.

673
00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:07,720
Speaker 2: So would you recommend for someone who is seeing multiple

674
00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:10,720
Speaker 2: experts for an issue to make sure that you're communicating

675
00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:13,120
Speaker 2: kind of with your expert squad about what's going on

676
00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:14,240
Speaker 2: between all of them.

677
00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:17,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's really important because we want to make sure

678
00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:20,640
Speaker 1: especially timing of treatment and what we're doing so there

679
00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:22,920
Speaker 1: isn't too much overlap. But you know, acupunctures are great

680
00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:27,040
Speaker 1: support for especially for physical things like physical therapy and

681
00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:28,520
Speaker 1: some of the other stuff you've done, like some of

682
00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:32,480
Speaker 1: the laser treatment. Acupunctures are a really great synergis, especially

683
00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:35,320
Speaker 1: with pain related things. Right there's a reason you had

684
00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:38,240
Speaker 1: the pain in the first place. So while we're treating

685
00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:40,120
Speaker 1: the pain to try to make you feel better, there

686
00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:43,600
Speaker 1: are other layers of that, like trying to understand what happened,

687
00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:47,000
Speaker 1: you know, says we work a lot with runners and athletes.

688
00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:50,360
Speaker 1: Often we're thinking about like how's your posture, how is

689
00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:52,480
Speaker 1: your running form? Like what kind of movements are you

690
00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:54,760
Speaker 1: doing during your sport? Are you training too hard? Are

691
00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:57,320
Speaker 1: you not recovering enough? And there's often you can kind

692
00:33:57,320 --> 00:34:00,360
Speaker 1: of figure out a reason you got you know, especially

693
00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:03,320
Speaker 1: if you're a run right, it's a very bilateral mechanical exercise.

694
00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:07,400
Speaker 1: If you have like one sided heel pain, right, something

695
00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:10,160
Speaker 1: is going on that that's being used too much, or

696
00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:12,200
Speaker 1: there's too much pressure on there, or something's wrong with

697
00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:14,799
Speaker 1: your shoes. There's some sort of story behind it, and

698
00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:18,759
Speaker 1: oftentimes that can be complicated. But really, like acupuncture is

699
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:21,960
Speaker 1: great for like releasing muscle tightness, relieving pain, but then

700
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:24,160
Speaker 1: you want to try to figure out why you got there.

701
00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:26,280
Speaker 1: And you know, that's where like things like physical therapy

702
00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:29,480
Speaker 1: and strength training come in, because, especially with pain and

703
00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:34,719
Speaker 1: athletic injuries, it's important to fixing balances and strengthen weak areas.

704
00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:37,560
Speaker 1: And you know, I work a lot with pts and

705
00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:40,520
Speaker 1: strength coaches and running coaches, and there's just such a

706
00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:43,920
Speaker 1: great synergy of working with that community where you know,

707
00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:47,439
Speaker 1: I'm loosening people up the pts doing manual work, strengthening them,

708
00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:50,600
Speaker 1: giving them exercises, you know, the running coaches altering their

709
00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:53,880
Speaker 1: training plan right, And it's a really nice synergy with

710
00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:55,360
Speaker 1: using other types of treatment.

711
00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:59,480
Speaker 2: So then the question comes up, how long should it

712
00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:02,360
Speaker 2: take for this to work? Which I know, I know

713
00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:05,160
Speaker 2: this it's a very generic question and that answer can

714
00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:08,880
Speaker 2: be extremely multifaceted. But what would you say to someone

715
00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:10,480
Speaker 2: who comes in here and is like, can I do

716
00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:12,160
Speaker 2: this for a month and all be good?

717
00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:15,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, it really depends. So I'll give you some examples

718
00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:17,560
Speaker 1: because maybe that will illustrate the point better. I think

719
00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:20,759
Speaker 1: one big misconception about acupuncture is that it's like a procedure,

720
00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:22,560
Speaker 1: like you know, you get surgery and then your hip

721
00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:25,520
Speaker 1: is fixed. Yeah, it's not like that. Generally. There are

722
00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:27,320
Speaker 1: some cases where, like you know, if you strain a

723
00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:30,120
Speaker 1: muscle like this morning, that if we get to it

724
00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:32,879
Speaker 1: pretty quickly, sometimes it can be like a one treatment fix.

725
00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:36,400
Speaker 1: But if especially if you're dealing with chronic issues, especially

726
00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:39,600
Speaker 1: chronic pain, there's more to it where you know, there's

727
00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:42,239
Speaker 1: changes to your nervous system and how you perceive pain

728
00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:45,560
Speaker 1: and feel pain, and then there's just like mechanical adjustments

729
00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:48,640
Speaker 1: to like if your heel is hurting, you start running differently,

730
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:50,440
Speaker 1: and then you're kind of moving in a way that

731
00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:54,080
Speaker 1: reinforces the issue. So sometimes you have to work through

732
00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:56,799
Speaker 1: that with getting treatment and then like some of those

733
00:35:56,800 --> 00:35:59,680
Speaker 1: other stuff we talked about, like fixing, like strength work

734
00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:02,359
Speaker 1: and and stuff like that. So it can be complicated,

735
00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:05,320
Speaker 1: you know. I generally recommend people come in once or

736
00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:07,759
Speaker 1: twice a week for an issue, and usually we can

737
00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:09,719
Speaker 1: get a good idea based on like how long it's

738
00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:11,719
Speaker 1: going on for, So the longer it's been going on

739
00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:14,279
Speaker 1: for generally the longer it will take. I usually tell

740
00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:16,840
Speaker 1: people like, after about you know, four to six visits,

741
00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:18,440
Speaker 1: we should have an idea, like there should be some

742
00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:21,439
Speaker 1: change during that period of time. It can get even

743
00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:24,040
Speaker 1: more complicated when you're working with runners training for a marathon,

744
00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:27,840
Speaker 1: because often you're like increasing your load while we're doing treatment,

745
00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:30,279
Speaker 1: and sometimes the goal is to just like either stay

746
00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:32,560
Speaker 1: the same or get slightly better and get you through

747
00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:35,080
Speaker 1: like the marathon, and then hopefully afterwards you'll have time

748
00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:39,160
Speaker 1: to recover. Because it depends on what the goal is too, right,

749
00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:42,480
Speaker 1: there are different reasons to use acupuncture. One can be

750
00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:45,880
Speaker 1: just for general stress and anxiety. One can be for

751
00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:49,640
Speaker 1: you know, post workout soreness. One can be for injury recovery,

752
00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:51,440
Speaker 1: one can be for injury prevention.

753
00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:51,719
Speaker 2: Right.

754
00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:54,040
Speaker 1: Patients sometimes come in like once a month or so

755
00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:56,600
Speaker 1: just for tune up, just to see like where they're

756
00:36:56,600 --> 00:36:59,200
Speaker 1: holding tightness so that they don't over use muscles. So

757
00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:01,680
Speaker 1: there's different uses, and I think depending on what your

758
00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:05,440
Speaker 1: objective is, it could be used for maintenance or for like,

759
00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:07,320
Speaker 1: you know, pain relief definitely.

760
00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:10,040
Speaker 2: So then one of the last areas that we're going

761
00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:13,920
Speaker 2: to talk on today is cost and insurance. Obviously everyone's

762
00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:17,200
Speaker 2: always trying to keep a budget or their finances in mind.

763
00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:21,759
Speaker 2: Do you have a range perhaps of what an acupuncture

764
00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:25,520
Speaker 2: treatment may cost someone, and to your knowledge, if different

765
00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:27,040
Speaker 2: acupunctures take insurance.

766
00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:30,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, acupuncture is covered by a lot of

767
00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:34,120
Speaker 1: insurance plans. Some acupunctures are in network, so you might

768
00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:37,480
Speaker 1: have acupuncture coverage that covers treatment where you just pay

769
00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:39,320
Speaker 1: a copay kind of like you're going to the doctor.

770
00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:43,239
Speaker 1: And then there's also out of network acupuncturists that you know,

771
00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:45,160
Speaker 1: you might still have insurance coverage for if you have

772
00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:48,319
Speaker 1: acupuncture out of network acupuncture round of it. So it

773
00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:51,080
Speaker 1: really depends on the plan and the company, but it's

774
00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:54,439
Speaker 1: it's definitely becoming more covered by insurance companies. I think

775
00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:56,480
Speaker 1: the issue is, like in a lot of other professions,

776
00:37:56,480 --> 00:37:58,960
Speaker 1: being in network often means you have to see more

777
00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:02,799
Speaker 1: patients per hour because the reimbursement for practitioners is quite

778
00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:04,560
Speaker 1: low if you're in network. So it's just like in

779
00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:07,080
Speaker 1: physical therapy where if you go to like an in

780
00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:09,239
Speaker 1: network place, you know they're just that you have to

781
00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:11,560
Speaker 1: see more patients per hour. So like my practice is

782
00:38:11,600 --> 00:38:13,880
Speaker 1: out of network because especially I'm doing a lot of

783
00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:17,360
Speaker 1: like hands on and like physical like muscle release work,

784
00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:19,760
Speaker 1: it just requires more time. I can't do that treatment

785
00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:21,680
Speaker 1: in ten minutes. I need like forty five minutes to

786
00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:24,120
Speaker 1: an hour with somebody generally to do that kind of work.

787
00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:26,440
Speaker 1: So I have to be out of network because otherwise

788
00:38:26,719 --> 00:38:29,040
Speaker 1: I can't see enough patients to pay the rent, especially

789
00:38:29,120 --> 00:38:31,719
Speaker 1: New York, and I think depending on what city you're in, right,

790
00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:34,040
Speaker 1: it can be even out of network or out of

791
00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:37,120
Speaker 1: pocket can be cheaper. Obviously, a place like New York

792
00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:40,080
Speaker 1: or LA or Chicago tends to be more expensive because

793
00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:43,000
Speaker 1: rent is higher and operating a business is more expensive.

794
00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:44,800
Speaker 1: But you know, i'd say the range, you know, and

795
00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:47,640
Speaker 1: there's different types. There's like community acupuncture clinics where there's

796
00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:49,879
Speaker 1: a room and a bunch of tables and you get

797
00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:51,680
Speaker 1: a quick treatment and you rest, and that can be

798
00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:54,759
Speaker 1: you know, like forty to eighty dollars out of out

799
00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:57,920
Speaker 1: of pockets, probably looking at like one hundred to four hundred.

800
00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:00,680
Speaker 1: It depends on what they're doing, right. We touched on

801
00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:03,239
Speaker 1: different styles. There's also like cupping can be part of

802
00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:07,960
Speaker 1: acupuncture guasha, which is like grassen or scraping technique. There's

803
00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:12,800
Speaker 1: electro acupuncture that some practitioners use. Even like dietary nutritional

804
00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:15,319
Speaker 1: advice can fall in the acupuncture realm as well.

805
00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:19,040
Speaker 2: That's a really interesting topic as well, using acupuncture for

806
00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:20,480
Speaker 2: dietary issues.

807
00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:24,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, so yeah, that's another common use is for digestive issues,

808
00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:26,799
Speaker 1: and you know a lot of them again coming back

809
00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:29,200
Speaker 1: to like stress, a lot of digestive issues have like

810
00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:32,719
Speaker 1: a stress related component. Especially things like IBS. There's like

811
00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:36,640
Speaker 1: a link to chronic or acute stress. And you know

812
00:39:36,680 --> 00:39:40,200
Speaker 1: acupuncture is great in twofold because you know some of

813
00:39:40,239 --> 00:39:43,000
Speaker 1: the treatment will touch on other aspects of Chinese medicine,

814
00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:46,600
Speaker 1: because a big thing with Chinese medicine and nutrition is

815
00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:49,840
Speaker 1: about like the concept of yin and yong, like eating

816
00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:52,920
Speaker 1: eating in balance. Right, so like in the winter you

817
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:55,400
Speaker 1: eat certain types of food, you eat more warming and

818
00:39:55,960 --> 00:39:59,240
Speaker 1: like aromatic foods because that offsets like the cold that's outside,

819
00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:02,480
Speaker 1: Whereas in summer you would eat more cold like watermelon

820
00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:05,840
Speaker 1: and mint and those types of cooling types of foods

821
00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:08,799
Speaker 1: because that offsets like the heat outside. So nutrition and

822
00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:10,960
Speaker 1: even Chinese mess and generally it's all about like being

823
00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:13,920
Speaker 1: in harmony with nature and kind of like doing the opposite.

824
00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:16,319
Speaker 1: Like if you feel cold, like do something warm. If

825
00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:18,800
Speaker 1: you feel hot, do something cold. And it's really simple,

826
00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:20,839
Speaker 1: but it extends to so many metaphors.

827
00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:25,560
Speaker 2: For someone who is hesitant on acupuncture, you right now

828
00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:29,359
Speaker 2: have an opportunity to encourage them to fit a try.

829
00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:32,160
Speaker 1: What is it that you tell them? You know, I

830
00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:35,080
Speaker 1: would say to give it a chance. And like most practitioners,

831
00:40:35,120 --> 00:40:37,560
Speaker 1: if you're hesitant at least me personally, I will speak

832
00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:40,239
Speaker 1: to someone beforehand before they come in, and like you know,

833
00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:42,239
Speaker 1: always when you get to a treatment, like if you're

834
00:40:42,280 --> 00:40:44,520
Speaker 1: really that's scared or uncomfortable, like you don't have to

835
00:40:44,520 --> 00:40:47,080
Speaker 1: do the treatment, I would say that it's worth a shot,

836
00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:50,759
Speaker 1: and the needles don't really hurt that much. And I

837
00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:53,359
Speaker 1: think often it's easiest when you have a recommendation from

838
00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:55,120
Speaker 1: a friend or someone you trust, because it can be

839
00:40:55,160 --> 00:40:58,239
Speaker 1: a little scary, and if you know someone personally that's benefited,

840
00:40:58,280 --> 00:40:59,960
Speaker 1: I think that can make people more comfortable.

841
00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:02,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean, And like I said, when I

842
00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:05,359
Speaker 2: started coming here, it was because you were referred to

843
00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:07,719
Speaker 2: me by multiple people that I knew, And I do

844
00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:10,840
Speaker 2: think that word of mouth can go a really long way.

845
00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:13,920
Speaker 2: And know that, as we talked about earlier, there are

846
00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:17,759
Speaker 2: different styles of acupuncture, so just because you've tried one

847
00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:21,279
Speaker 2: doesn't mean that another one can't benefit you if the

848
00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:24,319
Speaker 2: first one just didn't feel necessarily right for you and

849
00:41:24,360 --> 00:41:28,000
Speaker 2: your body. And also knowing that you can try one

850
00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:31,240
Speaker 2: type of acupuncture with an acupuncturist and try the exact

851
00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:34,279
Speaker 2: same type of acupuncture with a different acupuncturist and it

852
00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:36,560
Speaker 2: could be like a mental thing as to why the

853
00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:38,680
Speaker 2: second time it might work versus the first time that

854
00:41:38,719 --> 00:41:39,880
Speaker 2: you felt as though it didn't.

855
00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:42,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's a really important point because there is

856
00:41:42,080 --> 00:41:44,840
Speaker 1: the idea of the therapeutic relationship, like you know in therapy,

857
00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:48,240
Speaker 1: for instance, your relationship with your therapist or your relationship

858
00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:50,200
Speaker 1: with your doctor. They've done a lot of research on that,

859
00:41:50,239 --> 00:41:52,799
Speaker 1: if you like believe someone's going to help you, you're

860
00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:55,640
Speaker 1: more likely to get better. And you know, some of

861
00:41:55,680 --> 00:41:57,919
Speaker 1: that sounds like a placebo, but there is like some

862
00:41:57,960 --> 00:42:01,680
Speaker 1: trust built into treatment and I think think especially getting acupuncture,

863
00:42:01,680 --> 00:42:03,480
Speaker 1: if you're able to be a little more relaxed during

864
00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:05,600
Speaker 1: the treatment, it, you know, it feels a lot more

865
00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:08,160
Speaker 1: pleasant than if you're really tense and uncomfortable the whole time.

866
00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:10,439
Speaker 1: So that is an important thing to feel comfortable with

867
00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:11,960
Speaker 1: the person that you're working with.

868
00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:14,480
Speaker 2: Any final words of wisdom, Teddy.

869
00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:17,720
Speaker 1: You know, I mean I would say that acupuncture changed

870
00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:20,279
Speaker 1: my life. It can change yours too, And really there's

871
00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:22,920
Speaker 1: no downside to trying it right. It's not a medication,

872
00:42:23,040 --> 00:42:24,960
Speaker 1: it's not a surgery. That's what I love so much

873
00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:28,600
Speaker 1: about acupuncture is that there's really no downside to it,

874
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:30,799
Speaker 1: and so I would recommend you try it if you're

875
00:42:30,840 --> 00:42:32,640
Speaker 1: on the fence, and you know, more and more people

876
00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:35,719
Speaker 1: are trying it. A lot of athletes have tried it.

877
00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:37,279
Speaker 1: Like just in the past year, I've seen like the

878
00:42:37,360 --> 00:42:40,000
Speaker 1: Rock post about and David Beckham and you know a

879
00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:42,839
Speaker 1: lot of NFL teams. It's really popular with a lot

880
00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:45,600
Speaker 1: of other sports, Soccer, basketball, it's just becoming a lot

881
00:42:45,640 --> 00:42:49,120
Speaker 1: more common, and especially like cupping has become really popular.

882
00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:51,320
Speaker 1: You saw with like Michael Phelps in the Olympics a

883
00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:53,239
Speaker 1: while ago, and then every once in a while you'll

884
00:42:53,239 --> 00:42:55,360
Speaker 1: watch like a sports game basketball because they have like

885
00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:57,200
Speaker 1: the sleeveless shirt and you say, oh, they got cupping.

886
00:42:57,280 --> 00:42:59,440
Speaker 1: That's really great. So you know there are other aspects

887
00:42:59,480 --> 00:43:01,440
Speaker 1: to you. If you're free of needles. Their acupuncture is

888
00:43:01,480 --> 00:43:03,359
Speaker 1: like I do cupping. I do it. You know, if

889
00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:05,360
Speaker 1: someone's really that scared, I'm like, Okay, we don't have

890
00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:07,400
Speaker 1: to use a needle. We could do cupping, and you know,

891
00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:10,400
Speaker 1: get you used to the you know some sensation in

892
00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:11,080
Speaker 1: those areas.

893
00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:13,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like we could talk forever, but I'm

894
00:43:13,719 --> 00:43:15,440
Speaker 2: going to bring us to a close. Teddy, how do

895
00:43:15,760 --> 00:43:18,000
Speaker 2: the hurdlers follow along? With you. How do they keep

896
00:43:18,120 --> 00:43:20,280
Speaker 2: up with you? Give us your details.

897
00:43:20,520 --> 00:43:23,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, so we're located on the Upper West Side in Manhattan.

898
00:43:24,239 --> 00:43:29,000
Speaker 1: We are also on Instagram Morningside Acupuncture NYC and you

899
00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:34,000
Speaker 1: can also visit us on our website Morningside ACUPUNCTURENYC dot com.

900
00:43:34,040 --> 00:43:36,960
Speaker 2: Perfect And we're going to put a little bit in

901
00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:38,640
Speaker 2: the show notes where you guys can click and if

902
00:43:38,680 --> 00:43:41,239
Speaker 2: you're interested in coming up to Morningside, we're going to

903
00:43:41,239 --> 00:43:44,479
Speaker 2: give you one hundred dollars off your visit. So click

904
00:43:44,520 --> 00:43:47,080
Speaker 2: on over the show notes check that out come see

905
00:43:47,120 --> 00:43:48,640
Speaker 2: my guy Teddy. You know how to find me. I'm

906
00:43:48,640 --> 00:43:52,880
Speaker 2: over at Emily Body at Hurdle Podcast another Hurdle Conquered.

907
00:43:53,200 --> 00:44:03,360
Speaker 2: Catch you guys next time in my