Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,
Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of
Speaker 1: today's best minds. And Donald Trump has withdrawn Canada's invite
Speaker 1: to the Board of Peace. They are saving a billion dollars.
Speaker 1: We have so to a great Joe for you today.
Speaker 1: Emmas Now's own step Rule talks to us about Trump's
Speaker 1: reckless behavior at Davos and how the world is reacting.
Speaker 1: Then we'll talk to former director of the Consumer Financial
Speaker 1: Protection Bureau row hit Chopra about Donald Trump's odd rhetoric
Speaker 1: on credit card interest rates.
Speaker 2: But first the news, Mike, We're three weeks into twenty
Speaker 2: twenty six. I already think there's been two of the
Speaker 2: most powerful pictures of the Trump administration just in the
Speaker 2: last week. There's this first, there is this picture of
Speaker 2: over a half a dozen ICE agents pulling guns at
Speaker 2: a woman in her scrubs. And now we have this
Speaker 2: picture of a five year old boy taken by ICE
Speaker 2: in Minneapolis.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and what about the photos of the guy not
Speaker 1: wearing a shirt.
Speaker 2: It seems easy to capture horrifying images because ICE is
Speaker 2: giving so much material to these photographers.
Speaker 1: It's kind of amazing that Trump brother is so obsessed
Speaker 1: with thinking these images will somehow help them, you know,
Speaker 1: Like what they're thinking is kind of strange, right, Like
Speaker 1: they think it'll help them, but in fact it just won't.
Speaker 1: It's a really bad look.
Speaker 2: It feels like a very bad reading of the room,
Speaker 2: is what I would say.
Speaker 1: Yeah, really really bad reading the room. He's a preschooler,
Speaker 1: Liam Kogius Ramos removed from the family's car. The boy
Speaker 1: and the family are from Ecuador. They presented themselves at
Speaker 1: the border in Texas to apply for asylum. The family's
Speaker 1: lawyer said they are not illegal aliens. They came properly,
Speaker 1: They came legally. They were pursuing a legal pathway and
Speaker 1: the sun was used as bait, as is the way
Speaker 1: in the Trump administration. None of it should be surprising,
Speaker 1: but it is all still completely appalling.
Speaker 2: And this bag technique is very commid. It's what they're
Speaker 2: using at twenty six Federal Plaza in New York. Why
Speaker 2: we see all that the immigration courts are just filled
Speaker 2: with ice at all times because they wait for immigrants
Speaker 2: to go there for a trial and then they grab
Speaker 2: them up. Yeah yeah, so let's get even more craven.
Speaker 2: Many people who are critical of this stuff and smart
Speaker 2: on it. Field, the White Houses really crossed the line.
Speaker 2: The White House posted a deep fake image of an
Speaker 2: arrested ice protester crying.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, I know that Trump world loves to
Speaker 1: do fake stuff, but I don't totally get what the
Speaker 1: story is with this, Like why they want to put
Speaker 1: tears in this woman's face. I mean, I don't get it, but.
Speaker 2: Well, owning the whips, right, But what's.
Speaker 1: So brainwashed about all this stuff? Is there? Like, Okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: put tears, that'll make it even more owning the lips,
Speaker 1: but it actually makes you feel just worse for the person.
Speaker 1: So I don't get it, but it is deep fake.
Speaker 1: Daniel Dale. The White House is confirmed its official ex
Speaker 1: account has posted a fake image of a woman. Again.
Speaker 1: There is no legislation that prevents any fake stuff from
Speaker 1: being anywhere, So if they want to do fake AI
Speaker 1: porn of women candidates, there's nothing stopping any of that.
Speaker 1: None of it's illegal. It's all legal, and so you know,
Speaker 1: the fact that they don't do this stuff every day
Speaker 1: is kind of shocking. If you don't make it illegal,
Speaker 1: people in the Trump administration will do it. So Christy
Speaker 1: NOME is out there. They're charging the people who protested
Speaker 1: the church. I'm sure a lot of listeners this podcast
Speaker 1: know it, but just to remind everyone, they're being charged
Speaker 1: under the eighteen seventy one Klukux Klan Act, which makes
Speaker 1: it illegal any conspiracy to press, threatened, or intimidate. This
Speaker 1: is not what the klu kooks Klan did, right, They
Speaker 1: kill people, They hung them. That's not what's happening here.
Speaker 1: These are people protesting in church. But the point is, right,
Speaker 1: what's the point. The point is, use legislation that was
Speaker 1: meant to protect people to hurt people. Use legislation that
Speaker 1: was meant to protect people from things like the KKK.
Speaker 1: Do that in order to hurt people, because that's what
Speaker 1: this administration does.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Ironically, the man who brought us fake news loves
Speaker 2: fake AI slop and posting it every day because every
Speaker 2: accusation is an admission and a projection.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And also because they really don't care.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So yesterday, many people, myself included, were fored by
Speaker 2: Jack Smith's testimony. It seemed very very powerful and a
Speaker 2: very extreme indictment of Judge Aileen Kennon. No relation, thank god.
Speaker 1: Yes, so Jack Smith testified on Thursday, it was was
Speaker 1: it a blockbuster? I don't know there was a blockbuster.
Speaker 1: It wasn't anything we didn't already know. But because we're
Speaker 1: in such a like insane post truth moment, just having
Speaker 1: him say stuff that we already know ultimately was I
Speaker 1: think important and useful if that makes sense. Like, you know,
Speaker 1: Trump world has been such liars about all of this
Speaker 1: that to just have somebody say, like, yes, they did
Speaker 1: in fact storm the government, Yes they did. You know,
Speaker 1: January sixth was in fact January sixth, It was in
Speaker 1: fact meaningful. So I did think it was good. Again,
Speaker 1: like you know, the question of whether or not people
Speaker 1: follow the law, whether or not you know what the
Speaker 1: legal jeopardy the Trump world is in that, I don't know.
Speaker 1: But I did think it was good. And what he
Speaker 1: did was he reminded us. He said that you know
Speaker 1: you had by the way you had Jim Jordan just
Speaker 1: completely was interesting. The Republicans tried to push back by
Speaker 1: saying that Jacksmith had lost a lot of cases when
Speaker 1: he was at the Public Integrity Section of the DOJ,
Speaker 1: which is true, but that's not necessarily an indictment of
Speaker 1: him losing cases. But you know, their thinking was, you know,
Speaker 1: if he had lost cases, that he would lose this case.
Speaker 1: But it never came to that, So it didn't totally
Speaker 1: make a lot of sense. But I was glad to
Speaker 1: see them reminding us of what happened and what's true
Speaker 1: and what's not true. I don't think any Republicans' minds
Speaker 1: and hearts were changed one hundred percent.
Speaker 2: They were not. But as much as I'm not the
Speaker 2: biggest fan of a firmly word and statement in this
Speaker 2: day and age, there's something about when somebody really points
Speaker 2: it all out in a succinct way. So here's that
Speaker 2: category of news where we knew this was happening, but
Speaker 2: now we haven't confirmed. Cash Tellow senior FBI agents linked
Speaker 2: to Trump probes.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Cash Battel, Thank god for Cash Battel. If you
Speaker 1: were really working, we'd all we'd all be in the camps.
Speaker 1: You know. It was really good reporting from New York
Speaker 1: Times this week about how he just wants to go
Speaker 1: to parties, he wants to jet ski, he wants to
Speaker 1: go to sporting events. Cash Battel is like the Paris
Speaker 1: Hilton of the FBI discuss.
Speaker 2: I really really like that analogy. I have no other
Speaker 2: comments aside from the thumbs up. Actually, Molly, you know,
Speaker 2: we can't say that Paris went to Washington this week
Speaker 2: and did really good work out of the Important.
Speaker 4: Act, and that with mich Lawler.
Speaker 2: Yes, that's true too.
Speaker 1: He's PURBs the Bureau of Senior Ranks, forcing out pretty
Speaker 1: much anyone who knows what they're doing. Six agents in Miami,
Speaker 1: anyone who might have had anything to do with hurting
Speaker 1: his man and King Donald is out, Arctic Frost, you know,
Speaker 1: anyone who's ever known and Pete Straw. Basically, they are
Speaker 1: just clearing the decks. It's a good thing we don't
Speaker 1: need the FBI for stuff, because, man, if we did,
Speaker 1: we've been at it out of trouble. Steph Rule is
Speaker 1: the host of MS now's The Eleventh Hour Dephanie Roll.
Speaker 1: Davos matters. Davos matters now in a way that it
Speaker 1: didn't what happened this weekend.
Speaker 3: It's so funny. It's so funny. I've been to Davos,
Speaker 3: I don't know, seven or eight times, and for a
Speaker 3: long time it really was sort of this elite elite,
Speaker 3: just business people. There were world leaders, but kind of
Speaker 3: like more obscure ones with a very big focus on philanthropy.
Speaker 3: And there still is the irony is Davos mattered so
Speaker 3: much this year because so many people influence went, But
Speaker 3: even though they went, what the World Economic Forum has
Speaker 3: always claimed that that Davos was about is, you know,
Speaker 3: creating the integrated collaborative you know, world of the future,
Speaker 3: the sustainable world of the future. Flies in the face
Speaker 3: of exactly where we are today, right the fact, yeah,
Speaker 3: that President Trump flew the well, actually, I'm gonna back
Speaker 3: it up. I watched Stephen A. Smith this week dunk
Speaker 3: on Gavin Newsom just trash him, saying, how dare Gavin
Speaker 3: Newsom on European Soil go to Davos and say anything
Speaker 3: negative about our president? You know, almost like the you know,
Speaker 3: my Catholic family, almost like my Catholic family. You know,
Speaker 3: we can crush each other inside the house, but as
Speaker 3: soon as we open the front door, we have to
Speaker 3: have united front. And I'm kind of like you could
Speaker 3: dog on Gavin Newsom for criticizing the president or by
Speaker 3: the same token, the President went to Davos and on
Speaker 3: European soil, insulted every thing, and everyone practically.
Speaker 1: Declared war on Martin Jarney.
Speaker 3: While so many business leaders and world leaders where there
Speaker 3: scratching their heads saying, have we just redefined the world order?
Speaker 3: I actually think on some level it's a comfort when
Speaker 3: they hear from other government leaders from the United States
Speaker 3: saying no, no, no, no, no, no no, Like, yeah, we don't feel
Speaker 3: that way. We still are committed to the NATO Alliance. Right. So,
Speaker 3: even if we backed off our threats against Greenland, if
Speaker 3: you're any of these countries, do you believe it?
Speaker 4: Right?
Speaker 3: Like, I don't think that Donald Trump truly changed his
Speaker 3: view on what we should do about Greenland. He just
Speaker 3: got a drastically negative response. Much like Liberation Day last
Speaker 3: year when the bond market said, uhh, this isn't gonna work, Donnie.
Speaker 3: The same thing happened this week.
Speaker 1: So I want to go to this precedent because of
Speaker 1: this new world order idea. Mark Karney, the PM of Canada,
Speaker 1: gave this amazing speech and yeah.
Speaker 3: Let me just be clear, I don't know if you
Speaker 3: know I know Mark Karney. He's a fantastic He's a
Speaker 3: smart guy. Mark Carney has never been this exciting in
Speaker 3: his whole entire life.
Speaker 1: Right, explain why that is? Because he's not a normal politician, right, No.
Speaker 3: Oh my goodness, he's an Ivy league educated. He came
Speaker 3: from the banking world. He's a true highly educated centrist
Speaker 3: that had it not been for the right wing pendulum swing,
Speaker 3: you know, for the pendulum swinging so far to the right,
Speaker 3: suddenly Canada was like, oh hey, like like like, we're
Speaker 3: got to stop getting cute with like big changes and
Speaker 3: aspirations and we need to just put a grown up
Speaker 3: who's going to say, let's lower the temperature. And that's
Speaker 3: what Mark Karney is doing.
Speaker 1: Mark Carney gives the speech because you're going because I
Speaker 1: just want to, like Narrate gives this speech. It's an
Speaker 1: amazing speech. It's like very sort of the kind of
Speaker 1: speech gifted or it or gives. And it does not
Speaker 1: ever mentioned the United States by name.
Speaker 3: Go no, it does not ever mention the United States name,
Speaker 3: unlike Donald Trump, who the next day was trying to
Speaker 3: say Greenland by name, but not LANs, not twas, but
Speaker 3: I absolutely think four times called it Iceland, and then
Speaker 3: his press secretary tried to say that we were incorrect,
Speaker 3: and no, Press Secretary Lovett, there's a video he called
Speaker 3: it Iceland. I've got two times. My colleague said four.
Speaker 3: In Donald Trump's first term, one of his he was
Speaker 3: oftentimes very frustrated. You know, people used to joke he's
Speaker 3: in his bed with a diet Coca and a cheeseburger
Speaker 3: watching TV angry. He's not angry angry because he had
Speaker 3: the likes of Gary Khne or Steve Manuchin or hr McMaster,
Speaker 3: Rex Tillerson, take your pick. Even Bill Barr saying no, sir,
Speaker 3: I get that's what you want to do, but that's
Speaker 3: not what we can do. Right. We have to follow
Speaker 3: the rule of law. That's not how government works. Well. Now,
Speaker 3: in Trump two point zero, it's shangri la, right, It's funny.
Speaker 3: Trump is a salesman who will sell you anything at
Speaker 3: a whim. But he is surrounded by true maga zelots
Speaker 3: who are like three equal branches of government. Be damned,
Speaker 3: you know, we're here for Trump Nation. And so no
Speaker 3: one inside that White House has said to him there's
Speaker 3: no reason for us to acquire Greenland. They will even
Speaker 3: the notion of like, we've got the framework of a deal,
Speaker 3: what's in it? You could have had whatever you wanted. Right, Basically,
Speaker 3: we have whatever we want already from Greenland, and if
Speaker 3: we want more, they're going to say yes. So this
Speaker 3: entire exercise, while I'm sure it pleased Vladimir Putin, who
Speaker 3: would love to shake NATO. Like you always have to remember,
Speaker 3: go back in time. Ukraine would like to be a
Speaker 3: member of NATO. Russia is not a member of NATO,
Speaker 3: and so Vladimir Putin loves to see NATO getting rocked
Speaker 3: or disturbed in any way. Now, you do have to
Speaker 3: give Donald Trump some credit on the NATO front. Things
Speaker 3: get sleepy in these organizations. And had Donald Trump not
Speaker 3: shaken the cage and said, hey, you sleepy countries, you
Speaker 3: got to pay up, and we saw more countries do so. Right,
Speaker 3: we do have significantly more power than our European allies
Speaker 3: like But I just think when Donald Trump and Pete
Speaker 3: Hegseth say they can't touch our military mite, they're right.
Speaker 3: But if all of those countries, and if all of
Speaker 3: those investors, and if investors around the world say, you
Speaker 3: know what, we're just gonna dump all of our positions
Speaker 3: in US treasuries. We don't think you're the biggest safest
Speaker 3: bet anymore, that would be.
Speaker 1: Very bad, right, and it'll make money much more expensive
Speaker 1: and it'll it'll change the way our whole country works.
Speaker 1: But I want you to talk. I want to go back,
Speaker 1: just for another second, on the new world order. So
Speaker 1: Donald Trump comes in, he says, you know, we're gonna
Speaker 1: go to war with Greenland. We're gonna do this. We're
Speaker 1: gonna do that. Carney says, we are going The small
Speaker 1: countries need to band together because if you're not at
Speaker 1: the table, you're on the menu. Is it a new
Speaker 1: world order coming out of Davos.
Speaker 3: I don't know that it's a new world order because
Speaker 3: Donald Trump can change his tune at any moment. And
Speaker 3: the truth is all of these countries don't want the
Speaker 3: world order changed, right. They're really unhappy with what Trump
Speaker 3: is doing. But as much as Mark Karney could say,
Speaker 3: we got to get together and do this on our own,
Speaker 3: boys and girls, they'll do it if they have to,
Speaker 3: they'll do it if Trump's threats are real. But they
Speaker 3: don't want to, right. Like again, let's beak, it's expensive
Speaker 3: these European most of these European leaders, they're not very popular.
Speaker 3: Like they're dealing with the same political divides in their
Speaker 3: countries that we are. They've got slower economic growth, than
Speaker 3: we do. Right, take tourism out. A lot of those
Speaker 3: countries are suffering. So could they band together and figure
Speaker 3: out how they're going to do this? They could, but
Speaker 3: they don't want to, right, And I think that's a
Speaker 3: really good point.
Speaker 1: And it's also it's expensive. It's a problem. You know,
Speaker 1: there's all sorts of weird problems. I do want to
Speaker 1: ask you though, like it does feel like America is
Speaker 1: more isolated, especially coming into Davos to have Canada make
Speaker 1: this deal with China for evs Mark Carney, like, Ben,
Speaker 1: you have Canadians protesting not visiting America, Like, how much
Speaker 1: do you think this actually affects our economy?
Speaker 3: Listen? All of it is affecting our economy, right. Donald
Speaker 3: Trump's number one economic policy has been the tariffs. Okay,
Speaker 3: and what even happened last year? We saw ninety or
Speaker 3: even more than ninety percent of the costs and curved
Speaker 3: within the tariffs were from American businesses and American consumers. Right,
Speaker 3: that way is on our economy. We're going to be
Speaker 3: bringing back manufacturing jobs. We lost sixty eight thousand manufacturing jobs.
Speaker 3: Now what you can say, yeah, but now the economic
Speaker 3: outlook looks better. This year, the economic outlook looks better
Speaker 3: thanks to AI. What we really have is this divided economy,
Speaker 3: and other people have talked about it, this K economy,
Speaker 3: and to me, coming out of last year going into
Speaker 3: twenty twenty six, that K economy is only getting more exaggerated.
Speaker 1: The KAY economy means that the big part of that
Speaker 1: K is the twenty percent or ten percent of the richest.
Speaker 1: Explain that, can you explain this?
Speaker 3: It's the rich have gotten richer and the poor have
Speaker 3: gotten poorer. Right, So, now the average age of a
Speaker 3: first time home buyer is forty years old. If you're
Speaker 3: someone who owns the home, if you're someone who owns assets,
Speaker 3: who owns stocks, the value of all of those things
Speaker 3: went up and up and up. But if you're not,
Speaker 3: if you do not own a home, if you're somebody
Speaker 3: who got out of college and you're saddled to college
Speaker 3: debt and there's no jobs for you, you're suffering. If
Speaker 3: you're somebody in America who inflation is truly making your
Speaker 3: day to day to life more difficult, it's a problem.
Speaker 3: This is how the spirit, this is, This is why
Speaker 3: the same spirit elects Donald Trump in twenty sixteen and
Speaker 3: Zaramumdani in twenty twenty five. Right, wildly different men. But
Speaker 3: who are speaking to people saying are you left out?
Speaker 3: And are you sick of this? The government doesn't work
Speaker 3: for you?
Speaker 1: Now?
Speaker 3: The difference is that twenty twenty six Donald Trump, I
Speaker 3: don't even think he attempts to speak to or deliver
Speaker 3: for his base. Donald Trump is not running again. He
Speaker 3: is making right. New York Times, you know, reported that
Speaker 3: in the last year he made one point four billion
Speaker 3: dollars personally. I would venture a guest the number is
Speaker 3: significantly higher than that. Yeah, And he is surrounded by
Speaker 3: really what have become American oligarchs, how wealthy the wealthiest
Speaker 3: ring of people have become. And what Donald Trump isn't
Speaker 3: addressing or talking about, right? Is he saying anything to
Speaker 3: us truly about healthcare? No, he's not. No, inflation is cooling,
Speaker 3: but it's but we're not in good shape. All of
Speaker 3: these issues that affect the American people the root of maga.
Speaker 3: Let's stop focusing on the outside and start focusing on
Speaker 3: the inside. We're not doing that, and so it's going
Speaker 3: to be so interesting to see, like true maga zealots
Speaker 3: love all things Donald Trump love his brand. But people
Speaker 3: who voted for him, who were just sick of the system,
Speaker 3: he's not keeping them. And then there's that one other group.
Speaker 3: You know, last weekend, I was driving in upstate New
Speaker 3: York and there was some sort of Trump nation flags
Speaker 3: and then you know further ones, you know, just like
Speaker 3: free speech. Now, I just keep thinking about free speech. Now,
Speaker 3: one thing that came out of Davos, what are business
Speaker 3: leaders doing self censoring? Davos is the one place where
Speaker 3: they love to get on the stage voice their opinions
Speaker 3: about anything. Everything. They're you know, blah blah blah. They're
Speaker 3: quiet as a church mouse, right because these business leaders
Speaker 3: know they're in a tricky position, right, they need to
Speaker 3: serve their customers, they need to serve their shareholders. And
Speaker 3: if you say anything against the president, he's coming for you.
Speaker 3: And we saw this in Cold Blood Diamond. So Jamie Diamond,
Speaker 3: who is the lead who's far, far, far far from woke,
Speaker 3: right far from woke. In fact, I even said he
Speaker 3: liked Trump's stuff on immigration.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 3: Yes, this time last year, he spoke in Davos and
Speaker 3: basically compared the far right to the far left and
Speaker 3: said the far left needs to stop talking so crazy
Speaker 3: and people were super upset about him. But this week
Speaker 3: he spoke some plain truths and set about ice right
Speaker 3: about saying he liked that Donald Trump was closing the border,
Speaker 3: and lots of people do, but he said, watching five
Speaker 3: grown men tackle a woman on her way to work,
Speaker 3: I don't think so, right, So he spoke out against that.
Speaker 3: Then one of Donald Trump's, you know, sort of new
Speaker 3: ideas on affordability is to cap credit card rates. Okay,
Speaker 3: so you're not going to pay high interest rates, and
Speaker 3: Jamie Diamond said, great, that will lead to economic disaster
Speaker 3: because if they cap credit card rates, credit card companies say, okay, fine,
Speaker 3: but then they're just not going to extend credit the
Speaker 3: lots and lots of Americans. Right if you have a
Speaker 3: lower credit rating, they're going to say, sorry, it's too
Speaker 3: risky for me to lend to you. And then the
Speaker 3: third thing that Jamie Diamond did was when all of
Speaker 3: the companies, my parent company included, ponied up ten twenty
Speaker 3: thirty million dollars for the East Wing ballroom, Jamie Diamond
Speaker 3: said no. He said no, because whomever the next administration is,
Speaker 3: if they're not Republicans, they're gonna come and see all
Speaker 3: of us that this is some kind of crooked bribery, right,
Speaker 3: And what ifid Trump do? He goes and sues the biggest,
Speaker 3: baddest CEO out there, and I guarantee lots of other
Speaker 3: business leaders are like, shit, shoot, you know, Jamie Diamond's
Speaker 3: getting sued for five billion dollars, like there are there's
Speaker 3: few CEOs out there that sort of have the kahonas
Speaker 3: the power Jamie Diamond does. So loads of others are
Speaker 3: looking from the wings saying, I'm going to keep my
Speaker 3: mouth shut, in my head down. And that's really scary
Speaker 3: when people don't stand up for the truth, when they
Speaker 3: don't stand up for democracy, they don't say things are whack.
Speaker 3: Do you remember how outspoken Jeff Bezos was about saying
Speaker 3: Joe Biden didn't understand inflation. As Jeff Bezos said about
Speaker 3: Donald Trump's understanding of the economy, because we just heard
Speaker 3: from Amazon that we're going to start to see the
Speaker 3: impact of tariffs on their prices, where are you, Jeff Bezos?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a good question. And remember Amazon had wanted
Speaker 1: to have a little tariff calculator and then Trump had
Speaker 1: said no.
Speaker 3: Remember they said forget and forget it, We're not going
Speaker 3: to do it.
Speaker 1: I think it's so interesting when you're talking about like
Speaker 1: these billionaires not being brave, being scared. Earlier today I
Speaker 1: did Morning Joe. When I was talking to Senator Richard Blumithal,
Speaker 1: I'm saying, you know, does anyone stand up to him
Speaker 1: in the Senate And he was saying no. But then
Speaker 1: he said tothing which I thought was really interesting, which
Speaker 1: was he said, you know, they said Greenland doesn't know,
Speaker 1: like there are certain things that they were like, you
Speaker 1: can't do that.
Speaker 3: So when Greenland was like really on the table this week,
Speaker 3: I was speed dialing all my sources in the headsphone community.
Speaker 3: They wrapped themselves in pretzels to defend fending Trump. Yeah,
Speaker 3: and let me tell you, I was dialing up one
Speaker 3: eight hundred Greenland like hey, and nobody, and people are
Speaker 3: avoiding my calls. They're dogging at their homework. Nobody wanted to,
Speaker 3: I mean, because they just know it makes absolutely no sense.
Speaker 3: And even while if you make the argument, well they
Speaker 3: have these rare earth minerals, we can still get them
Speaker 3: like it just and so I think Trump more than blanked.
Speaker 3: He was embarrassed. They sure Stephen Miller's wife could make
Speaker 3: a post that shows, oh my gosh, what if we
Speaker 3: had this country in this country and what would that
Speaker 3: map look like? And Donald Trump, can you know, have
Speaker 3: a picture of you know, American flag on Canada, American
Speaker 3: flag on Greenland, American flag on Venezuela. And then the
Speaker 3: business community is saying, what why would we need to
Speaker 3: do that. We're already getting everything we want, and forget
Speaker 3: the business community, Marda, go back to to you know,
Speaker 3: the original Marjorie Taylor green Maga wasn't the whole idea.
Speaker 3: We wanted to cut off usaid because we didn't care
Speaker 3: about other countries, right, right, we don't care about other countries.
Speaker 3: We don't care about wars and other countries. We wouldn't
Speaker 3: care about eight in other countries. It's America. It's America first.
Speaker 3: And you could not make a kojun argument around why
Speaker 3: Greenland made sense. But to the point about silenced billionaires,
Speaker 3: think about how different the world is, right. Donald Trump
Speaker 3: even said in his remarks at the White House the
Speaker 3: day before he left Davos, he was half joking about
Speaker 3: the Gulf of Mexico and he said, well, it's Golf
Speaker 3: of America. I actually wanted to be the Gulf of Trump.
Speaker 3: But you know I would have gotten killed for that.
Speaker 3: This is how far he's come and how quiet and
Speaker 3: accepting we have become. Trump one point zero, you had
Speaker 3: apartment buildings in New York City.
Speaker 1: Stripping his name.
Speaker 3: Yeah, people who lived who pulling down the Trump taking
Speaker 3: his name off at links because they didn't want to
Speaker 3: be there. And now it's like, well, let Trump be Trump.
Speaker 3: Just pull up the Gulf of Trump. I mean, call
Speaker 3: it the Gulf of America.
Speaker 1: But I believe, and I could be wrong, but from
Speaker 1: looking at the polling and looking at this sort of
Speaker 1: pushback that we're seeing in places like Minnesota, I actually
Speaker 1: think what we have here is an elite that is
Speaker 1: willing to go along to get along, billionaires who are
Speaker 1: happy to do it, politicians who are pathetic, sick of fans,
Speaker 1: but that actually the American people are not happy.
Speaker 4: Okay.
Speaker 3: And then there's another group. I think you're one hundred
Speaker 3: percent right, And I'm gonna go to those billionaires first
Speaker 3: for a second, even though so many of them know
Speaker 3: better those that are truly in that circle. Molly, these
Speaker 3: people are making so much money.
Speaker 1: Yep, it's the taxes it's more.
Speaker 3: It's more than the taxes. It's the taxes. It's a
Speaker 3: it's a hype dealer. I mean, I was talking to
Speaker 3: a business guy I knew for years who's like, well,
Speaker 3: I'm focused really in Baku now, and I'm like where
Speaker 3: you know, Oh, I'm working with wit Coffin work with
Speaker 3: There are so many right, the John Coptions of the
Speaker 3: world are making so much money Russia style that they're
Speaker 3: all in Okay, Cantor Fitzgerald has Howard Lutnox firm has
Speaker 3: never made as much money as that. I mean, when
Speaker 3: you joked, I would not to hear.
Speaker 1: Wouldn't you love Thomas New York Sorry, go on, wouldn't you.
Speaker 3: Love to know who had inside information, who had early
Speaker 3: information on what Trump was going to announce about Greenland
Speaker 3: this week? I would churel like to know. So there's
Speaker 3: that group. But I actually think the group and they
Speaker 3: don't want to admit it, that really is in a
Speaker 3: tricky seat. Our corporate leaders, yeah, right, are our law
Speaker 3: firms because they do watch polling, they do take the pulse,
Speaker 3: so so they need to figure out So they need
Speaker 3: to figure out how do I not alienate Trump? But
Speaker 3: how do I get how do I get with where
Speaker 3: the future is going? Because again, most CEOs, what their
Speaker 3: political views are are for the most part kept private.
Speaker 3: They have three things they need to do right. They
Speaker 3: need their customers to keep buying their products. They need
Speaker 3: their employees not to quit, and they need their shareholders smiling.
Speaker 3: And they don't want to weigh in on politics. It's
Speaker 3: gotten so difficult. They're forced too. But now things are
Speaker 3: tricky because you have a president who is demanding money
Speaker 3: and loyalty and public praise, and he's falling further and further.
Speaker 3: I mean, what's his approval rating right now, thirty two
Speaker 3: thirty five.
Speaker 1: It's the lowest. I mean, it's pretty much it's a
Speaker 1: race to the bottom. Step roll. That was really fun.
Speaker 1: You're the best.
Speaker 3: I'll see you later.
Speaker 1: Row Hit Chopra is the former director of the Consumer
Speaker 1: Financial Protection Bureau. Welcome to Bass.
Speaker 4: Politics, Rowhead, Thanks so much for having me.
Speaker 1: Everything is bad, but let's talk about Trump is laser
Speaker 1: focused on affordability, and he's going to cap credit card
Speaker 1: rates at ten percent, even though that's not something you
Speaker 1: can really do by executive order. Talk us through what
Speaker 1: the hell is happening.
Speaker 4: Well, here's what's going on. I think Trump and the
Speaker 4: White House are seeing that the walls are closing in
Speaker 4: on them on almost every indicator. Prices are going up
Speaker 4: for people, debt is going up on employment has been
Speaker 4: ticking up, and I think they're scrambling to say anything
Speaker 4: that will make people think that they are actually focused
Speaker 4: on people's paychecks and day to day living. So here's
Speaker 4: what we heard. We heard this on the campaign too,
Speaker 4: by the way, that Donald Trump was going to cap
Speaker 4: credit card interest rates at ten percent, a one year
Speaker 4: emergency cap. Here's what people are dealing with. Every year,
Speaker 4: people are paying one hundred and sixty billion dollars in interest.
Speaker 4: For you, that's four hundred million dollars a day. In reality,
Speaker 4: though Trump has not really been caring so much about
Speaker 4: people's credit card debts. He's essentially shut down the agency
Speaker 4: eye led the CFPB no more oversight over the credit
Speaker 4: card companies. He's rubber stamped mergers between credit card giants,
Speaker 4: and even rescinded rules that covered credit card companies that
Speaker 4: would stop them from harvesting illegal fees. So we have
Speaker 4: to really look at the talk and the action, and
Speaker 4: the action does not suggest that they're doing much to
Speaker 4: lower costs for people.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so let's do more on that subject, because there
Speaker 1: are all sorts of consumer protections that Trump has taken away, right,
Speaker 1: talk us through that.
Speaker 4: Well, we have laws on the books that really stop
Speaker 4: people from getting gouged on certain types of goods like
Speaker 4: insurance and financial products. But the Trump administration has essentially
Speaker 4: put all of the law enforcement agencies that police these
Speaker 4: companies into a coma. We have seen, for example, not
Speaker 4: a single meaningful action from the CFPB before they were
Speaker 4: collecting billions of dollars in refunds and taking banks and
Speaker 4: big financial companies to court. The FTC led by Lena
Speaker 4: Kahn before is doing nothing. We are seeing instead just
Speaker 4: so many ways in which prices are going up, junk
Speaker 4: fees are going up, ripoffs are going up, and I
Speaker 4: think companies are seeing there will be no consequences if
Speaker 4: they break the law.
Speaker 1: Right, So, yeah, this is a sort of post to
Speaker 1: law America, right, post legal Trump is you know. Trump
Speaker 1: also made some overtures towards Massachusetts Senator Elizabeth Warren. He
Speaker 1: talked on the phone to her about affordability. What do
Speaker 1: you think is happening here? You think this is just
Speaker 1: a like a dumb Floyd because he knows his numbers
Speaker 1: are underwater, or you think there's some sense in which
Speaker 1: he feels that there's some reason to pivot.
Speaker 4: Well, I think he sees the numbers. He sees what
Speaker 4: is happening. His economic program isn't really working. The tariffs
Speaker 4: haven't brought back, all sorts of manufacturing costs have not
Speaker 4: conned down. I don't know what his calculus is, to
Speaker 4: be honest, if he wants to support this great I
Speaker 4: think he probably knows that Republicans in Congress will block it.
Speaker 4: Many of these politicians will just go with whatever some
Speaker 4: of these big companies want. So the record though, on
Speaker 4: what he does have control over what those agencies are doing,
Speaker 4: what his DOJ is doing. They are mostly engaged in
Speaker 4: corporate pardons. They are ripping up settlements from years past.
Speaker 4: They are blocking investment negations, they are censoring the attorneys
Speaker 4: who were doing the work. So it seems like a
Speaker 4: ploy to me. If they really want to be able
Speaker 4: to do something, maybe they should actually pass something. But
Speaker 4: they haven't done any of that yet. He also came
Speaker 4: out in favor of blocking big private equity investors from
Speaker 4: buying up homes it's actually a worthy point of discussion
Speaker 4: about whether those investors should be able to be vultures
Speaker 4: and buy up all the housing. But the reality is
Speaker 4: is that he's not actually going to block that. So
Speaker 4: I think maybe people are seeing that he'll say it,
Speaker 4: but his actions don't match his words.
Speaker 1: You have really spent a lot of time working on
Speaker 1: this kind of thing. When you were at CFPD, you
Speaker 1: rang the alarm about why industrial banks are so risky
Speaker 1: to the financial system, explained, I mean to us what
Speaker 1: that is, because we're in a really interesting moment when
Speaker 1: it comes to banks and the banks versus crypto, etc.
Speaker 1: So this is interesting.
Speaker 4: Yeah, So here's what we heard yesterday the Trump administration,
Speaker 4: the fdi C they greenlit these new types of banks
Speaker 4: known as industrial banks. Its banks owned by conglomerates. In
Speaker 4: this case, GM and Ford are now getting banks. We
Speaker 4: know the history with GM, when it gambled like a
Speaker 4: Wall Street player. Not only did they become less focused
Speaker 4: on producing automobiles, they engage in extremely risky financial practices
Speaker 4: that ended up being caught up in a financial crisis,
Speaker 4: and ultimately a lot of those big financial firms were
Speaker 4: bailed out by all of us. So we are starting
Speaker 4: to see how they are bring back some of the
Speaker 4: basic safeguards to make sure that these financial companies don't
Speaker 4: blow up and instead pumping up short term profits. And
Speaker 4: here's what I worry, Molly, is that when they do
Speaker 4: go down, they're going to expect all of us to
Speaker 4: pay for the cleanup. That's exactly what happened in two
Speaker 4: thousand and eight. That's exactly what has exacerbated wealth inequality,
Speaker 4: and frankly, that's exactly what has created more power by
Speaker 4: some of these big financial players in our political system.
Speaker 1: So let's talk about there's so little oversight happening in
Speaker 1: Trump's post legal America. It seems like besides these banks,
Speaker 1: you also have this crypto story, which is a real problem.
Speaker 1: How worried are you about that and the lack of
Speaker 1: regulation there.
Speaker 4: Well, here's what we're seeing is a fundamental shift away
Speaker 4: from how we think about banks and finance in America.
Speaker 4: Here's how we used to think about it. We used
Speaker 4: to think that banks and financial companies there's opposed to
Speaker 4: lend to small businesses, to people who want to buy homes.
Speaker 4: What we're seeing is instead more and more capital moving
Speaker 4: towards pure speculation, dumping money into hedge funds to be
Speaker 4: able to gamble with it in some of these crypto
Speaker 4: investment vehicles, pure speculation, and what we're seeing is that
Speaker 4: they want to bring more of that so that it's
Speaker 4: guaranteed by all of us. So I think we got
Speaker 4: to watch this carefully because we're also seeing signs that
Speaker 4: some of the president's family are in directly have financial
Speaker 4: interests in some of these financial companies, crypto coin issuers
Speaker 4: and others. And Molly, I'm really worried that part of
Speaker 4: the story about Trump's attempt to take over the Federal
Speaker 4: Reserve is also so that he will have the power
Speaker 4: for the Fed to buy up assets and bail his
Speaker 4: friends out when things go bust.
Speaker 1: But how would he do that if there are all
Speaker 1: these different governors in the bad Well.
Speaker 4: Here's what's happened now here right now, there are a
Speaker 4: few that he has already appointed. Many believe that they
Speaker 4: are already signaling loyalty toward him. He's trying to remove
Speaker 4: Lisa Cook, He's launched a criminal investigation against j Powell.
Speaker 4: The markets do see that he will get it, will
Speaker 4: likely get a majority of that board. Once he has
Speaker 4: a majority of that board, and he recently said he
Speaker 4: essentially is expecting loyalty from them. They will have an
Speaker 4: enormous amount of power. Many of these economists focus a
Speaker 4: lot on how they can control interest rates, but they
Speaker 4: really get to set the price and supply of money.
Speaker 4: They get to choose who's in the banking system. They're
Speaker 4: supposed to oversee money laundering and sanctions, so they really
Speaker 4: can turn a blind eye to some they can debank
Speaker 4: their enemies, they can rubber stamp approval for their friends.
Speaker 4: And this is something that we all have to pay
Speaker 4: attention to.
Speaker 1: What can we do as just besides paying attention to it.
Speaker 4: Well, ultimately we'd like to see an opposition fight some
Speaker 4: of the confirmations of those who are essentially going to
Speaker 4: be loyalists and minions to the president. We also probably
Speaker 4: need a meaningful reform plan so that these institutions cannot
Speaker 4: have so much power that the president can weaponize it.
Speaker 4: But also, Molly, I have to tell you a lot
Speaker 4: of these companies are just going along with it. They're
Speaker 4: donating to a ballroom, They're making sure that that they
Speaker 4: are in good graces with the president. Apple gave the
Speaker 4: president I think a golden iPhone. There has to be
Speaker 4: consequences for some of this, and I think that people
Speaker 4: need to signal now that this type of wrongdoing is
Speaker 4: not just going to come with no consequences later.
Speaker 1: That's a real question. Do you think Democrats are prepared
Speaker 1: for what happens if they win elections and take back power.
Speaker 4: Well, I think here's what many Republicans are counting on
Speaker 4: the fact that they might assume the Democrats will chicken out.
Speaker 4: But I think people are going to demand that when
Speaker 4: Trump is out and a new president is in, they
Speaker 4: cannot simply dance around and pretend like this didn't happen.
Speaker 4: There is going to need to be some accountability for
Speaker 4: companies that participated in corrupt practices or assisted in some
Speaker 4: of this mouthfeasance. And I think it's a big open
Speaker 4: question because many people wondered whether the you know, the
Speaker 4: Justice Department under the last administration energetically use the law.
Speaker 4: And I think a lot of people there, Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean MARYK. Garland was a complete coward. I mean
Speaker 1: he didn't do anything. He didn't even do the law
Speaker 1: the way that a Republican I mean the way that
Speaker 1: a Bob Dole might And I mean We've seen Democrats
Speaker 1: be quite cowardly, be behind the idea that you know,
Speaker 1: they want to just protect norms and they don't really
Speaker 1: care and we should just let by gums be gone.
Speaker 1: So how would you even get a party that is
Speaker 1: so mired in their own weirdness to get involved in this.
Speaker 1: I mean, they just voted to prove that the appropriation
Speaker 1: which gives money to ICE.
Speaker 4: I'm pretty confident we're going to have a lot of
Speaker 4: new players. People are going to see that they're sick
Speaker 4: and tired of the same. I really worry about this Mali,
Speaker 4: which is you can't just spend the next four years.
Speaker 4: Let's say if Democrats win rebuilding the government and living
Speaker 4: in a fairy tale that everything will go back to normal.
Speaker 4: Things are permanently different. If there is now a sense
Speaker 4: that you can, yeah, let's hire up people at USAID,
Speaker 4: it can all be shattered again. So there needs to
Speaker 4: be a different governing plan. In my view, one of
Speaker 4: the things we need to do is not have federal
Speaker 4: law enforcement have a monopoly over policing some of these companies.
Speaker 4: We need to put more power in the hands of
Speaker 4: state attorneys general, more power in the hands of private citizens,
Speaker 4: to be able to take people to court. We are
Speaker 4: going to need the Democrats to have a real point
Speaker 4: of view and a plan on how they are going
Speaker 4: to make sure that the courts are not being weaponized
Speaker 4: against consumers and workers and patients and everyone one else.
Speaker 4: We are not going to be able to do this
Speaker 4: with just trimming on the edges. We will need a
Speaker 4: fundamentally different way of governing in my.
Speaker 1: View, Yeah, I'm sure that's true. When you look at
Speaker 1: like the work you guys have done with accountability, do
Speaker 1: you think we'll be able to get back? I mean,
Speaker 1: like we've gone so far to the other side with
Speaker 1: Trump World, right, things are illegal, They don't even care.
Speaker 1: People are being added to signal chats. We had national
Speaker 1: security advisors on signal. There's no accountability in Trump World
Speaker 1: for doing things that are illegal or that are problems
Speaker 1: for national security. I mean, how would you even start
Speaker 1: to walk that back? How would you start to become
Speaker 1: a country of laws?
Speaker 4: Again, I recognize that it's much worse right now than
Speaker 4: it has been, but I don't think that this problem
Speaker 4: is new. I've served in several governments and I have
Speaker 4: seen firsthand how when it come to politically connected large
Speaker 4: companies that they can get law enforcement to turn a
Speaker 4: blind eye. The Department of Justice has been known to
Speaker 4: enter into agreements called non prosecution agreements or settlements that
Speaker 4: are a huge giveaway. So I really think the laws
Speaker 4: exist on the books today to actually aggressively prosecute crimes
Speaker 4: that harm the public, especially when it comes to their pocketbook.
Speaker 4: But we have not seen a political will to put
Speaker 4: people in those positions who will actually do it.
Speaker 1: Have we not seen a political will or have we
Speaker 1: seen people who are scared to do it? Because I
Speaker 1: think voters want it.
Speaker 4: I think you have two things. You have a huge
Speaker 4: amount of corporate influence in both parties. You have a
Speaker 4: terrible revolving door between regulated companies, law firms, and the prosecutors.
Speaker 4: And then on top of that, you really have a
Speaker 4: bunch of people who enter into government assuming that it
Speaker 4: is all some sort of Kumbai yah, when in reality
Speaker 4: it has to be about some degree of conflict when
Speaker 4: you're taking on actors that are screwing people over.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a really good point. Thank you so much, Rohed.
Speaker 4: Of course, thanks for having me, Molly.
Speaker 1: No moment, Jesse Cannon.
Speaker 2: We did not get to cover because of the literal
Speaker 2: just barrage of news all week that DOJE did some real,
Speaker 2: real fuckery with personal data and potential voter suppression. Today
Speaker 2: we have a report that there is even more ways
Speaker 2: DOZE access since the personal data.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you'll be shocked to hear staffers who were part
Speaker 1: of the Department of Government Efficiency and properly accessed and
Speaker 1: shared sensitive data millions of Americans. Trump administration hasn't been
Speaker 1: able to answer how much data is at risk, and
Speaker 1: quite frankly, probably if you email them, they'll send you
Speaker 1: back a poop emoji. These questions deepen last week when
Speaker 1: the Social Security Administration said it discovered that DOGE employees
Speaker 1: at the agency secretly and improperly shared sensitive data your
Speaker 1: social Security number in Elon's computers my favorite part, but
Speaker 1: again cannot verify the extent of the violations. The admission
Speaker 1: comes in a court filing last Friday, January sixteenth, made
Speaker 1: numerous corrections the testimony given. Just be glad that there's
Speaker 1: not someone running around with your social Security number right now.
Speaker 1: That's it for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in
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