1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,079 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:25,520 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. Hello, welcome back to the show. 5 00:00:25,560 --> 00:00:28,160 Speaker 1: My name is Matt, my name is They called me Ben. 6 00:00:28,200 --> 00:00:31,400 Speaker 1: We are joined today with our returning super producer Seth 7 00:00:31,480 --> 00:00:35,240 Speaker 1: Nicholas Johnson. Most importantly, you are you. You are here, 8 00:00:35,479 --> 00:00:38,519 Speaker 1: and that makes this the stuff they don't want you 9 00:00:38,600 --> 00:00:41,120 Speaker 1: to know. This is a good one, folks. This is 10 00:00:41,720 --> 00:00:45,239 Speaker 1: classic old school stuff they don't want you to know. 11 00:00:45,400 --> 00:00:48,880 Speaker 1: These are conspiracies. We're not stretching the term and we're 12 00:00:48,920 --> 00:00:53,640 Speaker 1: finding an answer. So let's let's paint a picture real quick, Seth, 13 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:58,200 Speaker 1: if we could get get a little evening out in 14 00:00:58,200 --> 00:01:02,400 Speaker 1: the woods kind of vibe there perfect. So imagine you're 15 00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:05,480 Speaker 1: camping and it's late at night. You're near the river, 16 00:01:05,640 --> 00:01:09,680 Speaker 1: maybe on an isolated stretch of woods. The sky above 17 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:13,840 Speaker 1: you as shining, steep, it's endless, and then it happens. 18 00:01:13,880 --> 00:01:17,600 Speaker 1: Something appears, something faster than a plane, closer than a star. 19 00:01:17,720 --> 00:01:20,640 Speaker 1: It hovers, it moves and impossible ways. It's got a 20 00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:23,520 Speaker 1: number of lights and unfamiliar shape and you're holding your 21 00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:26,800 Speaker 1: phone fumbling to to try to press record. You get 22 00:01:26,880 --> 00:01:30,080 Speaker 1: just a few seconds of kind of shaky footage before 23 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:33,080 Speaker 1: the thing ghost on you, and you might say, Okay, 24 00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:36,720 Speaker 1: I'm a skeptical person or I'm already a true believer 25 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:39,840 Speaker 1: in everything. X files, sign me up. Whatever happens, you've 26 00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:42,919 Speaker 1: just seen your UFO. The story doesn't in there, because 27 00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:45,360 Speaker 1: no matter what you do. The next day, you get 28 00:01:47,319 --> 00:01:50,320 Speaker 1: on your door. Two men are standing on your porch. 29 00:01:50,480 --> 00:01:54,720 Speaker 1: They're dressed in black, kind of nondescript, slightly outdated suits. 30 00:01:54,760 --> 00:01:57,880 Speaker 1: Behind them, you see maybe an older model car idling 31 00:01:57,960 --> 00:01:59,480 Speaker 1: on the street. They look like they could be out 32 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:02,280 Speaker 1: of a Black the White film from the fifties or sixties. 33 00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:05,559 Speaker 1: May we come in? Asked them? In calling you by name, 34 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:09,000 Speaker 1: You've got a tone that lets you know this isn't 35 00:02:09,080 --> 00:02:12,880 Speaker 1: really a question. You're startled, you step back, you open 36 00:02:12,919 --> 00:02:17,239 Speaker 1: the door because you're taught to, you know, comply with authority. Boom, 37 00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:20,320 Speaker 1: you've just met the men in black. That's about how 38 00:02:20,360 --> 00:02:24,440 Speaker 1: the story goes, right, Yeah, you've met the men in black, 39 00:02:24,680 --> 00:02:27,280 Speaker 1: So don't blake me. What was there is now gone 40 00:02:27,880 --> 00:02:31,080 Speaker 1: black suits with the black ray bands on the shadow 41 00:02:31,120 --> 00:02:36,160 Speaker 1: moving silence guard against extraterrestrial violence? Wow, did you have 42 00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:42,760 Speaker 1: that locked and loaded? Okay, okay, okay. Yeah. My favorite 43 00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:44,400 Speaker 1: line is that the title held by me M I 44 00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:47,239 Speaker 1: B means what you think you saw, you did not see. Dude. 45 00:02:47,280 --> 00:02:50,840 Speaker 1: This is uh one of my favorite I don't know 46 00:02:51,520 --> 00:02:57,880 Speaker 1: themes or motifs within the UFO lore space. These guys, 47 00:02:58,639 --> 00:03:03,160 Speaker 1: It's just they can body so many different things. Whether 48 00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:07,560 Speaker 1: they're you know, at least the stories you'll read, whether 49 00:03:07,639 --> 00:03:11,320 Speaker 1: they're actually people who are showing up as a part 50 00:03:11,320 --> 00:03:14,520 Speaker 1: of the government, or they are a part of the 51 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:20,240 Speaker 1: UFO itself, whatever you saw, whatever that extraterrestrial intelligence is, 52 00:03:20,919 --> 00:03:26,240 Speaker 1: or some combination of the two. Uh, and a lot 53 00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:29,639 Speaker 1: of times. I mean it was popularized through the movie 54 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:32,600 Speaker 1: Men in Black. But the concept of some kind of 55 00:03:32,600 --> 00:03:37,480 Speaker 1: gadgetry that can force you to not remember what just happened, 56 00:03:38,720 --> 00:03:42,880 Speaker 1: it's I love it. The little toothbrush looking thing. Yeah, 57 00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:47,640 Speaker 1: here are the facts. So this concept, this idea of 58 00:03:47,880 --> 00:03:52,120 Speaker 1: men in Black, what we just described, it's like you said, man, 59 00:03:52,160 --> 00:03:55,480 Speaker 1: it's one of the most popular pieces of conspiratorial UFO 60 00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:58,920 Speaker 1: folklore Noel. As you pointed out, it's referenced in countless 61 00:03:58,920 --> 00:04:02,800 Speaker 1: works of fiction that those are the real lyrics to 62 00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:06,280 Speaker 1: the song for the first Men in Black? Right? Is 63 00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:08,000 Speaker 1: it the first one? Yeah? I think I think he's 64 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:10,200 Speaker 1: just called the Men in Black rap? Right, and now 65 00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:13,160 Speaker 1: it was just called men in Black? Like wait, is 66 00:04:13,160 --> 00:04:15,560 Speaker 1: it a Stevie Wonder sample? I think it's Send Me 67 00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:18,599 Speaker 1: Forget Me Nuts, but it's HEREcom the Man in But 68 00:04:18,800 --> 00:04:21,000 Speaker 1: Will Smith was very fond of doing that for his movies, 69 00:04:21,040 --> 00:04:23,720 Speaker 1: like There's a Wild Wild West, which was also Stevie 70 00:04:23,720 --> 00:04:28,520 Speaker 1: Wonder situation. You know, our good friend Linkston from My 71 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:32,240 Speaker 1: MoMA told me had this thing recently where he's talking 72 00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:34,880 Speaker 1: about because Stevie Wonder reminds me of this man. I think, 73 00:04:34,880 --> 00:04:38,919 Speaker 1: you know, we're going apparently well. In this episode they 74 00:04:38,960 --> 00:04:43,040 Speaker 1: talked about this conspiracy theory that Stevie Wonder actually is cited, 75 00:04:43,279 --> 00:04:47,080 Speaker 1: that he can actually see, and Felonious Monk went in, 76 00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:54,400 Speaker 1: oh my god, that concept. That's like, that's like a 77 00:04:54,480 --> 00:04:56,839 Speaker 1: gag from a comic, I really broad comedy. I can't 78 00:04:56,839 --> 00:04:58,599 Speaker 1: remember what it is, but it's like someone's trying to 79 00:04:58,640 --> 00:05:00,760 Speaker 1: prove that someone is sited. It's so they throw an 80 00:05:00,760 --> 00:05:03,520 Speaker 1: object that in knowing that they're gonna like if they 81 00:05:03,520 --> 00:05:05,760 Speaker 1: can see, they'll they'll catch it. But instead of just 82 00:05:05,839 --> 00:05:07,440 Speaker 1: hits him in the head and knocks them over and 83 00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:12,200 Speaker 1: they're like, oh my bad, I guess you really are. Yeah. Yeah. 84 00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:14,920 Speaker 1: I won't stay on the Stevie Winner thing too long, 85 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:18,080 Speaker 1: but I just have to say, anybody who's listening to 86 00:05:18,080 --> 00:05:20,880 Speaker 1: this show who isn't listening to my mama told me, 87 00:05:21,160 --> 00:05:24,320 Speaker 1: do yourself a favor and incorporate that into your pod 88 00:05:24,440 --> 00:05:28,839 Speaker 1: verse because it is uh, it is wonderful. Yeah, Langston 89 00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:32,080 Speaker 1: is super cool. We had him on the show and 90 00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:36,320 Speaker 1: I've been tuning into his podcast ever since. I would 91 00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:39,400 Speaker 1: love to check to see if they have an episode 92 00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:42,880 Speaker 1: on the Men in Black, because you know, like we've 93 00:05:42,960 --> 00:05:46,960 Speaker 1: like you can tell easily from just our conversation here, 94 00:05:47,200 --> 00:05:52,320 Speaker 1: fellow conspiracy realists. Men in Black is now a mainstream concept. 95 00:05:52,680 --> 00:05:58,479 Speaker 1: And it's a mainstream concept because it feels like it 96 00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:02,280 Speaker 1: could be based in ground things. The US government and 97 00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:07,400 Speaker 1: world governments have sent people to find civilians. Right, if 98 00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:12,200 Speaker 1: the FBI is investigating a case, then they will come 99 00:06:12,400 --> 00:06:14,560 Speaker 1: and question you if you happen to be in the 100 00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:18,719 Speaker 1: neighborhood or involved or something like that. Right, detectives will come. 101 00:06:18,760 --> 00:06:22,800 Speaker 1: So it's it's not impossible nor implausible for government agents 102 00:06:22,839 --> 00:06:26,960 Speaker 1: to show up at somebody's door. The difference here is 103 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:29,960 Speaker 1: that it just it. It asked you to go one 104 00:06:30,040 --> 00:06:33,280 Speaker 1: step further and say, well, they're also if they are 105 00:06:33,320 --> 00:06:38,200 Speaker 1: also investigating you know, murders or crimes or big heist 106 00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:43,120 Speaker 1: or something, then they would investigate UFOs as well. So 107 00:06:43,160 --> 00:06:45,040 Speaker 1: what we're going to do today is not spend too 108 00:06:45,080 --> 00:06:48,039 Speaker 1: much time with the facts, because we found some facts 109 00:06:48,040 --> 00:06:51,599 Speaker 1: and they are pretty crazy. Instead, we're going to attempt 110 00:06:51,680 --> 00:06:54,640 Speaker 1: to solve this story, or at least solve how the 111 00:06:54,760 --> 00:06:58,239 Speaker 1: question of how men and black became mainstream and popular culture. 112 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:04,320 Speaker 1: So it's very early on. But here's where it gets crazy. Uh, 113 00:07:04,320 --> 00:07:06,960 Speaker 1: it's a little bit of a cold shower. I hope 114 00:07:07,000 --> 00:07:09,680 Speaker 1: nobody gets mad at us here. But as conspiracies go, 115 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:17,600 Speaker 1: it's mostly false. That too soon. No, No, I think 116 00:07:17,640 --> 00:07:20,760 Speaker 1: it's I think I think it's very respectful, Ben unrespectable 117 00:07:20,920 --> 00:07:22,600 Speaker 1: to just get you know, get that badger out of 118 00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:25,080 Speaker 1: the bag. But you know, but it's it's that image 119 00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:28,040 Speaker 1: of these types of people can be associated with all 120 00:07:28,120 --> 00:07:31,120 Speaker 1: kinds of government intrigue, right, I mean, like the g men, 121 00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:33,840 Speaker 1: for example, the men in black. It really is just 122 00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:39,560 Speaker 1: kind of like the uniform of shadowy government operatives, right exactly. 123 00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:41,840 Speaker 1: It's so common. It's a trope that even shows up 124 00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:45,160 Speaker 1: in that wonderful book American Gods by Neil Gaiman, The 125 00:07:46,040 --> 00:07:48,000 Speaker 1: Men in Black in there. And that's not a spoiler, 126 00:07:48,080 --> 00:07:52,200 Speaker 1: but it just it feels reasonable. Right. Uh. The origin 127 00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:56,080 Speaker 1: of this story can be traced back to July of 128 00:07:56,280 --> 00:08:00,360 Speaker 1: nineteen seven. And we have a story for you. It's 129 00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:03,679 Speaker 1: pretty cinematic. Let's see who wants to do the honors. 130 00:08:05,040 --> 00:08:07,760 Speaker 1: I can get you started here. I'll do sound effects. 131 00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:12,480 Speaker 1: Oh sweet bootleg fully sound effects. All right, We're just 132 00:08:12,520 --> 00:08:17,240 Speaker 1: gonna go as written here. Here's this fellow. His name's Harold, 133 00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:22,600 Speaker 1: Harold Doll and he and his son Charlie Charles, they're 134 00:08:22,640 --> 00:08:25,880 Speaker 1: they're hanging out there were there, There were their family 135 00:08:25,960 --> 00:08:33,160 Speaker 1: dog and there. And they're on there near the eastern 136 00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:37,120 Speaker 1: shore of this place called Maury Island. It's a conservation 137 00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:41,440 Speaker 1: area and their own a mission. Now this is in 138 00:08:41,559 --> 00:08:46,520 Speaker 1: Puget Sound. And they see something like a lot of 139 00:08:46,559 --> 00:08:49,560 Speaker 1: the stories of people who see men in black, Charlie 140 00:08:49,559 --> 00:08:52,839 Speaker 1: and Harold see something and the dog I'm as suing right, 141 00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:56,280 Speaker 1: the dog must have seen something or smelled something, and 142 00:08:56,320 --> 00:09:01,040 Speaker 1: they see what they describe as six donut shaped objects 143 00:09:01,400 --> 00:09:05,760 Speaker 1: hovering about a half a mile above the boat that 144 00:09:05,840 --> 00:09:09,440 Speaker 1: they are currently writing upon. So Doll claimed that he 145 00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:13,360 Speaker 1: watched one of these doughnutty disky things fluttered down to 146 00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:16,959 Speaker 1: Earth and then disintegrate, shooting off kind of like I 147 00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:21,120 Speaker 1: don't know, like space shrapnel or something like these fragments, 148 00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:26,000 Speaker 1: some of which hit his beloved dog and and ended 149 00:09:26,400 --> 00:09:31,280 Speaker 1: the dog's life sadly. Doll reportedly also took some photos 150 00:09:31,400 --> 00:09:35,040 Speaker 1: of these objects and showed them to a supervisor, a 151 00:09:35,080 --> 00:09:37,640 Speaker 1: man by the name of Fred krisman Um, who later 152 00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:41,920 Speaker 1: visited the scene himself and saw another strange object in 153 00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:45,160 Speaker 1: the sky, maybe the same one. He personally thought that 154 00:09:45,240 --> 00:09:48,880 Speaker 1: it was some kind of aircraft. Yeah, he didn't immediately 155 00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:53,920 Speaker 1: go star trek right with this, but Doll would later 156 00:09:54,040 --> 00:09:57,800 Speaker 1: go on to say he had he had an interesting 157 00:09:57,920 --> 00:10:01,640 Speaker 1: brunch date. The next morning. He was visited by a 158 00:10:01,720 --> 00:10:04,680 Speaker 1: mysterious man dressed and you guessed it black. And the 159 00:10:04,720 --> 00:10:08,280 Speaker 1: guy was not the like the sinister minium black type 160 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:12,960 Speaker 1: of dude you hear about today in most fiction. Instead, 161 00:10:13,040 --> 00:10:15,319 Speaker 1: he was he was kind of cool. At first. He 162 00:10:15,320 --> 00:10:18,160 Speaker 1: he took Doll out for breakfast. He's like, hey, wait, 163 00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:21,240 Speaker 1: do you what's your position on eggs or bagels or whatever. 164 00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:25,440 Speaker 1: So these guys go and they grab some food together, 165 00:10:25,840 --> 00:10:30,640 Speaker 1: and this man who remains unnamed today appears to know 166 00:10:30,760 --> 00:10:34,200 Speaker 1: exactly what Doll has seen and experienced, and he knows 167 00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:36,760 Speaker 1: a lot of detail about it, and at one point 168 00:10:36,920 --> 00:10:41,520 Speaker 1: he cryptically warns Doll, you know, don't tell anybody about this, 169 00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:45,200 Speaker 1: don't talk about it. His specific quote, per Doll was 170 00:10:45,760 --> 00:10:47,560 Speaker 1: what I have said is proof to you that I 171 00:10:47,679 --> 00:10:50,480 Speaker 1: know a great deal more about this experience of yours 172 00:10:50,800 --> 00:10:55,600 Speaker 1: than you will want to believe. United. Yeah, right, And 173 00:10:55,679 --> 00:10:58,680 Speaker 1: it's it's one of those turns because at first, like 174 00:10:58,720 --> 00:11:02,120 Speaker 1: it's nice town, you got here, Oh yeah, so you 175 00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:05,400 Speaker 1: work in conservation over you know, like with the islands 176 00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:08,280 Speaker 1: and the Puget Sound. And then and then he just 177 00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:13,600 Speaker 1: drops the bomb. Yeah, a little birdie told me named Fred, 178 00:11:13,760 --> 00:11:17,560 Speaker 1: the guy that you told his friend wasn't a wasn't 179 00:11:17,559 --> 00:11:21,320 Speaker 1: a men in black whistle blow? Well, uh, maybe not 180 00:11:21,440 --> 00:11:26,480 Speaker 1: quite yet. But the US government investigates this incident, and 181 00:11:26,559 --> 00:11:30,680 Speaker 1: it's part of something that you can see, you can 182 00:11:30,679 --> 00:11:34,280 Speaker 1: see described in a memo called Project Saucer, and they 183 00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:39,679 Speaker 1: concluded that these guys were not mistaken, nor had they 184 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:46,439 Speaker 1: seen anything strange. Instead, the FEDS argued they were making 185 00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:49,360 Speaker 1: this up. It was a hoax. At the very least, 186 00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:53,200 Speaker 1: it was a prank. So the they say, okay, this report, 187 00:11:54,280 --> 00:11:57,160 Speaker 1: we're on that island and the Puget Sound occurred just 188 00:11:57,400 --> 00:11:59,880 Speaker 1: a couple of days after this guy named Kenneth are 189 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:03,840 Speaker 1: an old different guy claimed to see multiple crescent shaped 190 00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:09,079 Speaker 1: craft floating above Mount Rainier. So there's somebody else who 191 00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:14,760 Speaker 1: has seen said they saw a UFO in a nearby 192 00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:19,680 Speaker 1: and just a few days ago. This story generated a 193 00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:22,080 Speaker 1: ton of regional interest and I got a lot of 194 00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:27,439 Speaker 1: national coverage. So according to this memo, these two other guys, 195 00:12:27,520 --> 00:12:30,520 Speaker 1: Chrisman and Dahl, might have had a financial motive to 196 00:12:30,559 --> 00:12:33,600 Speaker 1: their story because they immediately tried to sell it to 197 00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:40,160 Speaker 1: a magazine based in Chicago. And this magazine did contact 198 00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:45,040 Speaker 1: the government and they contacted that guy from earlier, Kenneth Arnold, 199 00:12:45,160 --> 00:12:48,080 Speaker 1: who had seen some crescent shaped craft. So this Kenneth 200 00:12:48,160 --> 00:12:50,760 Speaker 1: Arnold guy in this pilot from Nined Airlines, a guy 201 00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:54,760 Speaker 1: named Captain and Mill J. Smith. They traveled out to Tacoma, 202 00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:58,240 Speaker 1: and they're gonna take a look at the evidence themselves. 203 00:12:58,240 --> 00:13:00,360 Speaker 1: So they're gonna talk to these guys, and you're gonna 204 00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:04,679 Speaker 1: look at the boat, the boat itself, to see if 205 00:13:04,720 --> 00:13:07,920 Speaker 1: there's any damage or if you know, like Null described, 206 00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:13,880 Speaker 1: there were any fragments of alien providence. Well, yeah, if 207 00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:17,200 Speaker 1: there's significant shrapnel to kill a dog, but then likely 208 00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:20,480 Speaker 1: there's damage to the boat of some kind, right, just likely, 209 00:13:20,559 --> 00:13:25,960 Speaker 1: not necessarily, but yeah, let's let's get some actual evidence 210 00:13:26,080 --> 00:13:29,360 Speaker 1: to this thing. And by the way, Smith also had 211 00:13:29,440 --> 00:13:33,120 Speaker 1: some time in the UFO spotlight himself because he reported 212 00:13:33,160 --> 00:13:38,360 Speaker 1: seeing some disc shaped objects um hovering over Boise, Idaho, 213 00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:41,040 Speaker 1: not terribly long in the past. On the fourth of 214 00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:43,560 Speaker 1: July in fact, and while he was into coma Um, 215 00:13:43,679 --> 00:13:48,320 Speaker 1: Arnold contacted two Army intelligence officers who helped him investigate 216 00:13:48,520 --> 00:13:51,960 Speaker 1: the claim um. The men met in secret at the 217 00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:57,200 Speaker 1: Winthrop Hotel, where dol Um produced some samples of the 218 00:13:57,200 --> 00:14:00,920 Speaker 1: the garments that he said came from the risk Um. 219 00:14:01,080 --> 00:14:04,960 Speaker 1: Two officers left the next day on a b for 220 00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:09,760 Speaker 1: Hamilton's Field, California, taking some of those fragments with them 221 00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:14,160 Speaker 1: to analyze further. Yeah, that makes sense. We got hard evidence, right, 222 00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:18,160 Speaker 1: That's the thing missing from so many UFOs sightings. So 223 00:14:18,559 --> 00:14:22,160 Speaker 1: there is a strange twist here they're playing. Never makes 224 00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:26,920 Speaker 1: it to Hamilton's Field. Instead, it crashes. There are four 225 00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:31,080 Speaker 1: people aboard this plane. Both of those officers who are 226 00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:34,280 Speaker 1: taking these fragments for analysis, they die in the crash. 227 00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:38,680 Speaker 1: The other two passengers, a crew chief and someone described 228 00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:43,360 Speaker 1: only as a hitchhiker, parachuted the safety This hitchhiker was 229 00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:46,600 Speaker 1: probably also a member of the military who needed to 230 00:14:46,640 --> 00:14:50,560 Speaker 1: get down to California for one reason or another. But 231 00:14:50,680 --> 00:14:54,120 Speaker 1: if you believe there's something to miss the fact that 232 00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:59,320 Speaker 1: this plane crashed, it doesn't look good for the official story, right. 233 00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:04,120 Speaker 1: And after the crash, newspapers and these wire services around 234 00:15:04,120 --> 00:15:08,000 Speaker 1: Tacoma started getting these anonymous phone calls that said, like 235 00:15:08,760 --> 00:15:12,320 Speaker 1: dark Faller or craft has been purposely shocked from the 236 00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:16,640 Speaker 1: air with a twenty millimeter cannon. You know, sounded like 237 00:15:17,480 --> 00:15:20,240 Speaker 1: Ben Kingsley when he was doing the Mandarin in Iron 238 00:15:20,240 --> 00:15:24,600 Speaker 1: Man three. You will never see me coming, you know, 239 00:15:26,680 --> 00:15:30,840 Speaker 1: speaking of which, no spoilers, but if anyone hasn't seen Shane, 240 00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:33,600 Speaker 1: it's so good. I think it might be my favorite 241 00:15:33,760 --> 00:15:37,440 Speaker 1: sort of more standalone Marvel movie. But that character in 242 00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:42,360 Speaker 1: a weird way makes a makes an appearances. I didn't 243 00:15:42,360 --> 00:15:43,880 Speaker 1: know you wanted. I didn't know you were going to 244 00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:45,680 Speaker 1: go see it. I will go see it with you 245 00:15:46,160 --> 00:15:47,800 Speaker 1: if I would see it again with you anytime. I 246 00:15:47,920 --> 00:15:49,480 Speaker 1: went with my kid, and even she loved it. And 247 00:15:49,520 --> 00:15:51,920 Speaker 1: she's not a huge movie fans. She's more into like 248 00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:55,200 Speaker 1: serialized stuff and like manga and things. But um, yes, 249 00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:57,200 Speaker 1: we we both loved it. And by the way, first 250 00:15:57,200 --> 00:16:01,360 Speaker 1: time seeing an atmost Dolby um Prisonation and it's game 251 00:16:01,440 --> 00:16:05,200 Speaker 1: changingly great, like the sound um and the picture of 252 00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:07,960 Speaker 1: really fantastic. And I sound like an old person, but 253 00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:10,040 Speaker 1: I think it's relatively new and we we only recently 254 00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:12,520 Speaker 1: just got one here in Atlanta. Um, but really really cool. 255 00:16:12,680 --> 00:16:15,480 Speaker 1: Oh where is it? It's the mat the Madison Yards 256 00:16:15,640 --> 00:16:18,800 Speaker 1: AMC Theater. They have a Dolby Atmos theater. It's it's 257 00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:21,000 Speaker 1: more expensive. It's like almost like three D prices, but 258 00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:23,840 Speaker 1: absolutely worth it and uh screw three D. This is 259 00:16:23,880 --> 00:16:26,440 Speaker 1: like this is the way, Matt, you want to go 260 00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:32,080 Speaker 1: with us? Okay, for sure, I'm I'm mulled awesome. Let 261 00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:33,720 Speaker 1: us know if you want to go to the movies 262 00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:38,680 Speaker 1: with us. Uh, what what we should be watching? Uh? Conspiracy? 263 00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:41,600 Speaker 1: I heart radio dot com. So here's the deal. When 264 00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:46,000 Speaker 1: the news comes out with these these anonymous phone calls, 265 00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:49,680 Speaker 1: the story of this crash goes around. Papers are reporting 266 00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:54,800 Speaker 1: on a possible conspiracy. They're not saying anything definitive, but 267 00:16:54,880 --> 00:16:58,040 Speaker 1: they're kind of darkly hinting that this plane may have 268 00:16:58,080 --> 00:17:03,360 Speaker 1: been destroyed because of the aigments aboard. The government investigates 269 00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:08,960 Speaker 1: the plane crash, investigates the accusations against it, and in 270 00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:14,119 Speaker 1: a stunning conclusion, finds no indication foul play. Instead, there 271 00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:19,800 Speaker 1: was a type of mechanical failure. Yeah, sure, sure right. 272 00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:23,600 Speaker 1: It's tough. It's tough because of the you know, the 273 00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:26,359 Speaker 1: timing of the tragedy. But at the same time, on 274 00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:29,960 Speaker 1: the same day that playing crash, something was going on 275 00:17:30,119 --> 00:17:33,080 Speaker 1: with Doll and Crispin. What was it? Will tell you 276 00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:42,080 Speaker 1: After a word from our sponsor and we're back. What's 277 00:17:42,119 --> 00:17:45,800 Speaker 1: that song? Uh? The cracks begin to show. Do you 278 00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:47,800 Speaker 1: guys know the song I'm talking about? Is it m 279 00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:55,359 Speaker 1: F Doom does dub Steps song? Apparently Dumb Step Alliance? 280 00:17:55,640 --> 00:17:58,320 Speaker 1: Is that it? I don't know the song at all, 281 00:17:58,560 --> 00:18:00,880 Speaker 1: but it definitely says. The cracks beget to show quite 282 00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:06,200 Speaker 1: a few times. Alright, yes, we'll go with that one song, 283 00:18:07,840 --> 00:18:10,919 Speaker 1: dub Step bend By. The Freestyles have a number of 284 00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:15,440 Speaker 1: interesting pursuits outside of work. Uh, dubstep. I don't know 285 00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:17,160 Speaker 1: if that's one of them. I just like that song. 286 00:18:17,359 --> 00:18:19,000 Speaker 1: I think if it's the right song. But anyway, the 287 00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:22,879 Speaker 1: cracks begin to show in in this painful segue. The 288 00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:27,760 Speaker 1: cracks begin to show in Darling Christman's story. The truth 289 00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:31,520 Speaker 1: may be beginning to come out. Yeah. On the same 290 00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:35,360 Speaker 1: day that this plane went down, both Doll and Chrisman, 291 00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:39,160 Speaker 1: who took Captain Smith the one of these fellows here 292 00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:41,600 Speaker 1: to see the boat that, you know, the one that 293 00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:45,960 Speaker 1: had allegedly been damaged where the dog was killed. Uh, 294 00:18:46,119 --> 00:18:51,000 Speaker 1: where these fragments actually impacted things. And Smith was kind 295 00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:56,080 Speaker 1: of like, all right, I'm not necessarily seeing anything here 296 00:18:56,119 --> 00:18:59,399 Speaker 1: that's out of the ordinary. Uh, doesn't look like maybe 297 00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:03,600 Speaker 1: there's that much damage, he later told investigators, while he 298 00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:06,280 Speaker 1: could see recent repairs that have been done on the 299 00:19:06,320 --> 00:19:10,439 Speaker 1: boat itself, like somebody blankly these guys had fixed a 300 00:19:10,440 --> 00:19:14,680 Speaker 1: couple dings or holes or fixed in particular the windshield 301 00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:17,320 Speaker 1: and the lights it didn't look like there was a 302 00:19:17,359 --> 00:19:21,040 Speaker 1: lot of damage, at least damage that was caused by 303 00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:25,280 Speaker 1: falling shrapnel or shrapnel that was exploded. Yeah. So Smith 304 00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:29,480 Speaker 1: is basically walking around going all right, man, I I 305 00:19:29,520 --> 00:19:34,240 Speaker 1: can see beat up boats at home. You know, there's 306 00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:38,040 Speaker 1: another kicker here. Later, under question, both of these guys, 307 00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:42,520 Speaker 1: Harold Dahl and Fred Crispin, reverse their stories. They say, 308 00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:45,920 Speaker 1: you know what, g men, this was all a hoax. 309 00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:49,480 Speaker 1: This was all a hocus focus on our part, hoaxes 310 00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:53,720 Speaker 1: pocas is on our part. Uh, the I think about 311 00:19:53,760 --> 00:19:56,800 Speaker 1: the at this point, they they're now caught up in 312 00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:03,600 Speaker 1: potentially being investigated for the deaths of some some military officials. 313 00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:08,520 Speaker 1: They yeah, that's a good point, Matt. So the fragments 314 00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:12,879 Speaker 1: that they had presented a proof of this encounter were, 315 00:20:13,119 --> 00:20:17,400 Speaker 1: it turns out, rocks they had found on the island. 316 00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:20,119 Speaker 1: They had hoped to sort of judge their story up 317 00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:24,199 Speaker 1: a bit by having those fragments when they you know, 318 00:20:24,320 --> 00:20:29,280 Speaker 1: when they spoke to that magazine in Chicago. So a 319 00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:32,119 Speaker 1: couple of things happened there. Right. If you are more 320 00:20:32,280 --> 00:20:36,440 Speaker 1: of a true believer in government cover ups of UFOs, 321 00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:41,919 Speaker 1: then this questioning was a way for the government to 322 00:20:42,119 --> 00:20:45,280 Speaker 1: force them to change their story and participate in a 323 00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:47,879 Speaker 1: cover up. But then, you know, if you're more on 324 00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:50,720 Speaker 1: the skeptical end, of course you're gonna say, well, if 325 00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:52,840 Speaker 1: it's a B. S story, it's probably not going to 326 00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:57,480 Speaker 1: hold up when the Army and the FBI is quizzing 327 00:20:57,520 --> 00:21:02,000 Speaker 1: you to make sure you've you're consistent. Still didn't really 328 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:05,680 Speaker 1: matter at this point because that that match, that spark 329 00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:09,600 Speaker 1: of speculation had already been thrown onto the powder keg 330 00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:13,840 Speaker 1: of cultural concern. And this is amid the massive UFO 331 00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:17,600 Speaker 1: craze of the nineteen forties. It created the folklore we 332 00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:21,199 Speaker 1: know today, and we can follow it. We can trace 333 00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:26,040 Speaker 1: this evolution in American culture. We can find the rise 334 00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:29,760 Speaker 1: for the men in Black. It didn't happen right like, 335 00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:32,960 Speaker 1: it didn't happen while this was all going down. It 336 00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:37,280 Speaker 1: took about a decade for an author named Gray Barker 337 00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:40,760 Speaker 1: to talk about dolls Men in Black story in a 338 00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:43,399 Speaker 1: book called I Love the title. I wouldn't see you 339 00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:48,840 Speaker 1: guys think about this then knew too much about flying sauces. 340 00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:51,399 Speaker 1: I love it, Ben, But for for me, when I 341 00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:54,560 Speaker 1: look at the cover, yeah, it's it's always they knew 342 00:21:54,600 --> 00:22:04,520 Speaker 1: too much about flying saucers. That's the part. Yeah, okay, 343 00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:08,480 Speaker 1: so it's nine. A lot of stuff has happened, right. 344 00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:12,080 Speaker 1: This is almost a decade later, So by then the 345 00:22:12,119 --> 00:22:19,119 Speaker 1: government considered Doll's story completely debunked. Um case closed, at 346 00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:21,960 Speaker 1: least if you believe the official reports. But this whole 347 00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:25,040 Speaker 1: idea of these kind of like you know, spooky, shadowy 348 00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:30,679 Speaker 1: government agents was a little too fascinating and intriguing to 349 00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:34,320 Speaker 1: not catch on with with the public. Um Barker played 350 00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:37,200 Speaker 1: a pivotal role in this himself, as his book connects 351 00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:40,359 Speaker 1: the dots between dolls story about a quote man in 352 00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:42,800 Speaker 1: a black suit with another story from a guy named 353 00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:47,159 Speaker 1: Albert K. Bender, who claimed that three men dressed in 354 00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:50,120 Speaker 1: a similar way visited him back in nineteen fifty three. 355 00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:55,160 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Benders. Interesting, let's spend some time on him. 356 00:22:55,240 --> 00:23:02,640 Speaker 1: So before this is the this is the fascinating fact here, 357 00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:07,760 Speaker 1: fellow conspiracy realists. Before Barker's book they knew too much 358 00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:13,240 Speaker 1: about flying saucers hit the press. It is enormously difficult 359 00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:16,560 Speaker 1: to find references in print to something we would call 360 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:20,240 Speaker 1: the men in black, and only a few people who 361 00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:25,760 Speaker 1: are subscribed to UFO centered newsletters had ever heard of 362 00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:31,080 Speaker 1: this guy, Albert K. Bender. But as the years went by, 363 00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:35,159 Speaker 1: more and more people claimed to have encountered Men in Black, 364 00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:39,080 Speaker 1: and the story evolved. In some cases, people who had 365 00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:45,280 Speaker 1: had a UFO sighting in the past later revised or 366 00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:48,159 Speaker 1: expanded their story to say they had also encountered the 367 00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:52,800 Speaker 1: Men in Black. Similar to how like the the number 368 00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:56,840 Speaker 1: of people who claim that they were in the crowd 369 00:23:56,960 --> 00:24:02,359 Speaker 1: during famous assassinations only seems to grow every year. Right, Uh, 370 00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:04,879 Speaker 1: this may be partially trick of memory at some point. 371 00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:06,639 Speaker 1: It may just be because they want to have a 372 00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:11,520 Speaker 1: good story or it. Maybe again, if we're being fair here, 373 00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:14,600 Speaker 1: maybe because some of these people had sightings and they 374 00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:18,080 Speaker 1: were afraid to talk about that aspect of it. Maybe 375 00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:23,800 Speaker 1: originally the Men in Black didn't have any like superpowers. 376 00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:26,679 Speaker 1: They weren't aliens, blah blah blah. They were probably just 377 00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:30,200 Speaker 1: FBI agents Molder and Scully hitting the bricks. Let's see 378 00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:32,800 Speaker 1: what the heck is going on in Tacoma. Cue the 379 00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:35,280 Speaker 1: theme music if we could, you know what I mean, Well, 380 00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:41,280 Speaker 1: don't something like queue something like the theme music. But yeah, 381 00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:48,200 Speaker 1: not sign at all. That's very well, that's that's fine 382 00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:49,919 Speaker 1: as long as we don't get to suit. You know, 383 00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:52,480 Speaker 1: I think I thought it worked. I thought it was good. 384 00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:56,719 Speaker 1: But but now that the story evolves, as people are 385 00:24:56,720 --> 00:25:00,600 Speaker 1: playing this game of telephone and embellishing with their own details, 386 00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:05,280 Speaker 1: of their own interpretations, these FBI agents start to not 387 00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:09,080 Speaker 1: be entirely human and you start hearing that their speeches 388 00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:13,240 Speaker 1: still did that they use outdated phrases, that somehow they 389 00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:18,040 Speaker 1: look off. Their complexions might glow with unnatural pallor they 390 00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:22,639 Speaker 1: might have a strangeenus in their eyes, and they they 391 00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:27,600 Speaker 1: would use anachronisms and speech, you know, like um, they 392 00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:30,640 Speaker 1: would Maybe I'm just making things up here, but picture 393 00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:34,840 Speaker 1: older words that aren't usually in use today, like um, 394 00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:37,800 Speaker 1: part of me seem to have some rhubob on your 395 00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:41,520 Speaker 1: trousers or pantaloons maybe, or you know what I mean, 396 00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:46,320 Speaker 1: maybe they say automobile instead of car. Little things like that. 397 00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:50,640 Speaker 1: That's what people are claiming. Uh, and this this is interesting. 398 00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:53,760 Speaker 1: He's trying to think of a good comparison. You guys 399 00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:57,359 Speaker 1: remember the film Dark City. Oh yeah, that's so good. 400 00:25:57,440 --> 00:26:00,359 Speaker 1: I rewatched it. There's actually there's a new thing coming 401 00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:02,960 Speaker 1: out in the Dark City universe. I think about the 402 00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:08,000 Speaker 1: TV show. Yeah, but yeah, but if you picture the 403 00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:10,960 Speaker 1: way like the supernatural description of the men in Black, 404 00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:16,640 Speaker 1: picture the something like those uh antagonists in Dark City. Anyway, 405 00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:20,119 Speaker 1: So nineteen sixty two, a few years later, Vendor writes 406 00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:23,800 Speaker 1: his own book, Matt, you want to give us the title? 407 00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:26,439 Speaker 1: I like the way you did it. Mine sounded like 408 00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:32,280 Speaker 1: eighteen hundreds villain vaguely trans Atlantic accents. So let's go 409 00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:35,080 Speaker 1: with yours. I like whisper Man here. Okay, well, I'm 410 00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:37,560 Speaker 1: not gonna do whisper Man for this one. It's just 411 00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:41,280 Speaker 1: this one is a little more straightforward. It's called Flying 412 00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:46,400 Speaker 1: Saucers and the Three Men, which is either very simplistic 413 00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:50,160 Speaker 1: or very sinister, right, It just doesn't mean. I feel 414 00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:52,800 Speaker 1: like I could have gone back, you know, and and 415 00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:55,960 Speaker 1: revise that a bit. But it's fine. It's fine. And 416 00:26:56,119 --> 00:27:02,480 Speaker 1: this he's description of this encounter sort of sets the 417 00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:06,760 Speaker 1: precedent for all those supernatural elements that become so common 418 00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:11,440 Speaker 1: in later years. We've got we've got some quotes here 419 00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:15,439 Speaker 1: that are just perfect. They're perfect. And the weird who 420 00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:17,920 Speaker 1: wants to do the honors, I'll give you a couple here, 421 00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:21,000 Speaker 1: so there there. This is this is a quote. This 422 00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:25,000 Speaker 1: I think you can read about this from history dot com. 423 00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:28,080 Speaker 1: Is that where I saw this. You should be able 424 00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:32,359 Speaker 1: to find the quote in a couple of different places. Okay, okay, yeah, 425 00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:35,240 Speaker 1: you can find this is what I'm saying. I'm we're 426 00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:38,639 Speaker 1: not making this up. In the book, he writes that 427 00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:42,359 Speaker 1: there were three guys the three men quote floated about 428 00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:45,000 Speaker 1: a foot off the floor. Okay, so we got levitation. 429 00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:51,560 Speaker 1: Uh check, awesome. They looked like clergymen, but they wore 430 00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:56,280 Speaker 1: hats similar to the Humburg style. So again we're talking 431 00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:59,760 Speaker 1: about guys who seem out of time but kind of 432 00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:04,840 Speaker 1: like clergymen, but they're also floating cool. Their faces were 433 00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:10,639 Speaker 1: not clearly discernible, for the hats partially hid and shaded them. 434 00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:14,760 Speaker 1: The eyes of all three figures suddenly lit up like 435 00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:18,040 Speaker 1: a flashlight bulbs, and they seem to burn into my 436 00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:22,960 Speaker 1: very soul, as the pains above my eyes became almost unbearable. 437 00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:28,040 Speaker 1: Very very creative, Yeah, you know, very very good use 438 00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:30,800 Speaker 1: of language, well written. Feels like something out of a 439 00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:33,280 Speaker 1: sci fi novel. Well it's for me, it's it's horror. 440 00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:36,840 Speaker 1: It's horror. This is like horror. Writing of the monster 441 00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:41,720 Speaker 1: that you're encountering, you know, and this. He also says 442 00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:46,320 Speaker 1: that they have a very interesting conversation. These guys who 443 00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:50,800 Speaker 1: visit him say, all right, Mr Bender, we're not humans, 444 00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:56,000 Speaker 1: We are aliens. We appear human because we kidnap earth 445 00:28:56,120 --> 00:29:00,920 Speaker 1: people and we wear their bodies as disguises. Saucey comes 446 00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:06,720 Speaker 1: up later in Dark City spoiler, and Bender maintains this 447 00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:09,520 Speaker 1: version of the story for the rest of his life 448 00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:13,600 Speaker 1: until he passes away in two thousand two. The first question, 449 00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:16,200 Speaker 1: why are they telling him this? They show up, They're 450 00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:20,200 Speaker 1: like bird who was mind with their scanner powers if 451 00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:23,480 Speaker 1: anybody remembers that film. And then they say, we wear 452 00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:34,200 Speaker 1: the flesh of your dad. Don't say anything about this 453 00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:37,760 Speaker 1: or the previous thing. Just be quiet and we are 454 00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:42,440 Speaker 1: going to leave. Also, is there a Debty's nearby? We've 455 00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:46,480 Speaker 1: heard great things. Well, it's it's very strange how it's 456 00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:51,360 Speaker 1: The Men in Black film combines Bender's version of Men 457 00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:56,040 Speaker 1: in Black in the creature like the the extra trest 458 00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:58,920 Speaker 1: real that lands you remember that the farmer that turns 459 00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:01,920 Speaker 1: that it becomes a skin walker essential essentially puts on 460 00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:05,080 Speaker 1: the skin of a human played by it's played by 461 00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:08,120 Speaker 1: Vincent din Afrio. I didn't even realize that until very 462 00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:11,760 Speaker 1: recently because he's so crazy looking in the movie. Yeah, 463 00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:15,040 Speaker 1: it's Vincent. It's Vincent din Afrio doing that version of 464 00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:19,640 Speaker 1: Men and Black essentially, but then the G Men version, 465 00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:22,800 Speaker 1: like the human FBI G Men version of Men and Black. 466 00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:25,800 Speaker 1: I don't know, I just I love how that filmed 467 00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:27,960 Speaker 1: kind of takes a lot of these things together. No, 468 00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:29,800 Speaker 1: it's it's a total mash up of all this stuff 469 00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:31,320 Speaker 1: because like, on the one hand, you're right there like 470 00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:33,800 Speaker 1: the G Men and the suits with the sunglasses and 471 00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:37,760 Speaker 1: the mind erasing technology, but also they're like in league 472 00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:41,360 Speaker 1: with aliens as well, Like they've got aliens on their team. 473 00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:44,719 Speaker 1: You know, it's like they're part of this diplomatic force 474 00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:48,640 Speaker 1: to kind of keep the bad ones at bay, but like, 475 00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:52,440 Speaker 1: you know, figure out cool stuff with the good ones. Yeah. 476 00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:57,480 Speaker 1: And and also equally important for anybody who who is 477 00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:01,480 Speaker 1: interested in that throwaway comment, Denny's was around in the 478 00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:03,880 Speaker 1: nineteen fifties. It was called Danny's Donuts. It was found 479 00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:09,400 Speaker 1: in ninety So my favorite Denny's sandwiches moons over Mihammy. Right, 480 00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:13,400 Speaker 1: So that that that throwaway reference, while it may not 481 00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:19,440 Speaker 1: have landed, was historically accurate, right, and maybe that's absolutely 482 00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:21,760 Speaker 1: And I don't know why you would think it didn't 483 00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:24,440 Speaker 1: land I was, I was, I'm craving the moon's over Miammy. 484 00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:29,280 Speaker 1: Ever since he said it, well, well, uh, you know 485 00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:32,280 Speaker 1: you have the power to make that dream of reality, right, 486 00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:36,600 Speaker 1: and uh, that's who knows. So whether whatever these aliens, 487 00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:39,480 Speaker 1: if aliens they be, think of Denny's that has lost 488 00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:44,120 Speaker 1: to history. But we can say the stuff that the 489 00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:48,280 Speaker 1: stuff that Bender describes includes things like, you know, levitation 490 00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:51,640 Speaker 1: and then glowing eyes, the ability to give people headaches 491 00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:57,000 Speaker 1: with a glance. That doesn't sound particularly inconspicuous, nor does 492 00:31:57,000 --> 00:32:00,040 Speaker 1: it sound like a subtle approach. There's no denying and 493 00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:04,240 Speaker 1: it's great for Barker's book. And if you ask the 494 00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:06,880 Speaker 1: people who knew Great Barker, who wrote that first book 495 00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:10,240 Speaker 1: we reference, you will see that folks are kind of 496 00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:13,720 Speaker 1: split about his motives. They questioned how much he believes 497 00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:17,600 Speaker 1: the story that he wrote about with Bender and with Doll. Yep, 498 00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:20,280 Speaker 1: and we're gonna get into that right after another quick 499 00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:32,400 Speaker 1: word from our sponsor. All Right, we're back. So if 500 00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:36,200 Speaker 1: you talked to friends of Barker's, like one guy named 501 00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:40,600 Speaker 1: John Sherwood. You'll hear that. You'll hear speculation that maybe 502 00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:43,120 Speaker 1: he made the men in black up on his own 503 00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:50,240 Speaker 1: as a joke, or Barker had talked, you know, he's 504 00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:52,160 Speaker 1: just hanging out the way that you would hang out 505 00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:55,000 Speaker 1: with your friends casually. He had talked off the record, 506 00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:58,280 Speaker 1: and he had said, at least at one point, maybe 507 00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:04,600 Speaker 1: this guy, Albert Bender had a really vivid, really frightening dream, 508 00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:08,960 Speaker 1: one of those dreams that is so vivid it feels 509 00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:11,800 Speaker 1: more like a memory, right than a dream. It feels 510 00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:13,720 Speaker 1: like a memory of an actual event. And we've all 511 00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:17,640 Speaker 1: had those people experience those those feelings. You wake up, 512 00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:20,600 Speaker 1: what's what's the best trope? Has this ever happened to you? 513 00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:23,160 Speaker 1: I've got I feel like a stand up comedian going 514 00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:26,760 Speaker 1: like what else? What else? All right? Yeah? But this 515 00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:29,160 Speaker 1: this is something that happens in relationships, right. Have you 516 00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:31,200 Speaker 1: ever been dating someone and they wake up and they're 517 00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:33,680 Speaker 1: mad at you because of some stuff you did in 518 00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:36,240 Speaker 1: their dream, the dream version of you, and you have 519 00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:38,960 Speaker 1: to you find yourself at like, you know, seven in 520 00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:42,360 Speaker 1: the morning, there's something saying okay, but yeah, just but 521 00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:47,000 Speaker 1: just to be clear, I have never uh, you know, 522 00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:50,720 Speaker 1: I I've what's something ridiculous to be mad at you about? Oh, 523 00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:55,880 Speaker 1: I've I've never planned to like throw pancakes at you 524 00:33:56,280 --> 00:34:00,400 Speaker 1: and light our house on fire. Are recurring dreams that 525 00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:03,640 Speaker 1: I had murdered my neighbor, um, and I woke up 526 00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:07,640 Speaker 1: guilt ridden, like really feeling like I had done this thing. Um, 527 00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:09,839 Speaker 1: I don't know what that says about me. Has suppressed 528 00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:12,520 Speaker 1: my psyche hasn't happened a long time, but I remember 529 00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:17,560 Speaker 1: feeling very viscerally guilty for having done a thing. Wow. Yeah, no, 530 00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:21,600 Speaker 1: I yeah, that has definitely happened to me before. Ben, Yeah, 531 00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:25,040 Speaker 1: I think, uh what I think. One of the weirdest 532 00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:32,520 Speaker 1: is I've also woken up bummed by events in dreams. Um. 533 00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:35,279 Speaker 1: I'd love to hear about people's recurring dreams. All my 534 00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:37,880 Speaker 1: dreams actually take place in kind of a shared universe. 535 00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:41,280 Speaker 1: It's really trippy the things that happened in one night's 536 00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:46,400 Speaker 1: sleep or whenever sleep affect stuff in the next dreams. 537 00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:50,359 Speaker 1: It's a whole thing. But but yeah, so we know 538 00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:53,040 Speaker 1: that dreams are powerful. We have some episodes on that 539 00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:56,439 Speaker 1: and on the science and speculation surrounding dreams. So it's 540 00:34:56,440 --> 00:34:59,840 Speaker 1: totally it's totally possible that Bender could have had it 541 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:04,360 Speaker 1: experienced something while asleep that was simply so vivid he 542 00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:09,080 Speaker 1: could not separate the dream from the waking world. But 543 00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:12,480 Speaker 1: even if that's the case, the thing is Albert Bender 544 00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:16,640 Speaker 1: is very much not in on the joke. He was 545 00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:21,279 Speaker 1: consistent and forthright about his story for the rest of 546 00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:25,040 Speaker 1: his life. He never wavered, and it did his encounter 547 00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:29,200 Speaker 1: did prompt him to make some sudden changes. He canceled 548 00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:32,120 Speaker 1: his article that he was writing on what he believed 549 00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:35,400 Speaker 1: to be a UFO government cover up, and he shut 550 00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:38,879 Speaker 1: down this organization he founded, which may not have heard 551 00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:42,640 Speaker 1: of today. It's called the International Flying Saucer Bureau. It's 552 00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:45,120 Speaker 1: kind of a predecessor to move on. It was the 553 00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:48,600 Speaker 1: first major civilian club for UFO enthusiast. It was only 554 00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:51,839 Speaker 1: about a year old, and he just deep sixed the 555 00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:56,560 Speaker 1: whole thing. So we know that while his claims feel 556 00:35:56,560 --> 00:36:01,879 Speaker 1: outlandish and they feel unimprovable, this guy genuinely believed them. 557 00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:04,840 Speaker 1: He wasn't just trying to pull the wool over people's 558 00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:09,000 Speaker 1: eyes in a rush for money. You know. Yeah, we 559 00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:11,560 Speaker 1: at least believe that he did right that. We believe 560 00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:14,359 Speaker 1: that's the fact for him. But we we know this. 561 00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:18,040 Speaker 1: And man, I've been having conversations on clubhouse lately with 562 00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:23,200 Speaker 1: just folks who maybe blur these lines. Sometimes just because 563 00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:27,960 Speaker 1: you personally believe something doesn't mean that it's true, right, Um, 564 00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:31,080 Speaker 1: And that goes for all of us, and that's something 565 00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:33,319 Speaker 1: that we we just have to handle and to deal 566 00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:36,920 Speaker 1: with here. Uh. But you know, at the same time, 567 00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:42,080 Speaker 1: uh oh god, it's so strange conscious you know. We 568 00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:43,880 Speaker 1: I don't want to get too philosophical and down the 569 00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:47,160 Speaker 1: consciousness route, but there is there is something to be 570 00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:52,439 Speaker 1: said about someone who truly believes something so wholeheartedly that 571 00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:57,000 Speaker 1: it is real for them, It is true for them. Um. Anyway, 572 00:36:57,160 --> 00:36:59,120 Speaker 1: I don't I don't know where I'm going with us. Besides, like, 573 00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:02,080 Speaker 1: if this guy laved it fully enough, then you can 574 00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:04,359 Speaker 1: imagine that it shaped his entire life as it did 575 00:37:04,719 --> 00:37:07,439 Speaker 1: with we. We've just outlined all these things that the 576 00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:10,239 Speaker 1: steps that he took in his life to kind of 577 00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:13,920 Speaker 1: build it around this one thing that occurred, right, whether 578 00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:16,720 Speaker 1: it was a dream or an actual experience, Yeah, totally 579 00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:19,520 Speaker 1: so for the observers of this, for people who believe it, 580 00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:22,640 Speaker 1: or if you yourself believe you have encountered something like 581 00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:25,640 Speaker 1: the Men in Black. We would love to hear your story, 582 00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:29,279 Speaker 1: and we'd love to hear your your take on what 583 00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:34,400 Speaker 1: people like Bender have been saying. And despite the fact 584 00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:38,279 Speaker 1: that there are problems with these initial stories, despite the 585 00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:41,880 Speaker 1: fact that we now know more or less how the 586 00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:44,360 Speaker 1: concept of men and Black evolved into a part of 587 00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:51,000 Speaker 1: UFO folklore, belief in these entities persist. For the hardcore believers. 588 00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:56,080 Speaker 1: It's because those stories are true, and each encounter, if 589 00:37:56,120 --> 00:37:59,840 Speaker 1: it gets debunked orv as you know, some plot holes, discrepancies, 590 00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:04,560 Speaker 1: et cetera, they can be dismissed as misinformation. They're part 591 00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:07,879 Speaker 1: of the cover up, right. Uh. And this is this 592 00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:12,200 Speaker 1: is actually not that implausible because the US government is 593 00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:17,600 Speaker 1: super into spreading fake conspiracies to cover up other stuff 594 00:38:17,640 --> 00:38:21,440 Speaker 1: they're doing or other stuff they messed up along the way. 595 00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:25,440 Speaker 1: But for more academic investigators, that persistence of men and 596 00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:29,680 Speaker 1: Black can be explained by two big factors. First, shadowy 597 00:38:29,719 --> 00:38:34,200 Speaker 1: governments do exist. They don't have superpowers as far as 598 00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:37,440 Speaker 1: we know. They aren't some from some like far flung 599 00:38:37,600 --> 00:38:42,520 Speaker 1: Galactic she R School or Cree Empire. But there are, 600 00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:44,239 Speaker 1: as we said in the beginning, there are lots of 601 00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:48,120 Speaker 1: agents in playing clothes back then and today, and they 602 00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:52,200 Speaker 1: work directly for any number of government agencies. And knowing 603 00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:55,279 Speaker 1: this makes the story seem a little less implausible. And 604 00:38:55,320 --> 00:38:57,600 Speaker 1: then as the second part is, as it gets told 605 00:38:58,040 --> 00:39:01,120 Speaker 1: and re told and showcased and popular media and people 606 00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:03,440 Speaker 1: put their spin on it, whether they're selling it as 607 00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:08,799 Speaker 1: fiction or fact. People start toying with the idea. And 608 00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:12,800 Speaker 1: there's when there's this resurrection belief in Men in Black 609 00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:19,040 Speaker 1: portrayed in fiction. Then they start adding more and more 610 00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:22,120 Speaker 1: layers to the mythology. But this is what gets me. 611 00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:26,400 Speaker 1: If the wildest stories about the Men in Black are true, 612 00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:32,520 Speaker 1: then that means these guys are terrible at their jobs, 613 00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:39,120 Speaker 1: like they're no zero stars. Yeah, that's exactly what I 614 00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:41,839 Speaker 1: want to get to you. There have been so many 615 00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:46,759 Speaker 1: encounters at this point that have been documented, talked about, right, 616 00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:50,160 Speaker 1: like I of of U, A, p S and UFOs. 617 00:39:50,239 --> 00:39:52,719 Speaker 1: But how when's the last time you heard a Men 618 00:39:52,719 --> 00:39:56,239 Speaker 1: in Black story? I don't know, I mean it wasn't 619 00:39:56,280 --> 00:39:57,960 Speaker 1: there there was a it was the last Men in 620 00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:01,919 Speaker 1: Black movie. It's been a while camp full of years. Yeah, 621 00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:03,759 Speaker 1: I don't know. I think there's a new one coming 622 00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:06,360 Speaker 1: at some point. But I yeah, I'm getting at is 623 00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:09,040 Speaker 1: that it feels a little less zeitgeistin than it maybe 624 00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:12,239 Speaker 1: once was. Um not that it only depends on pop 625 00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:14,799 Speaker 1: culture references for that to be the case, but I 626 00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:17,840 Speaker 1: don't know that I've heard much rumbling about it in 627 00:40:18,040 --> 00:40:20,560 Speaker 1: a long time. Yeah, I guess what I'm saying is 628 00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:23,279 Speaker 1: on on message boards, on places where you may just 629 00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:26,080 Speaker 1: stumble around on the internet looking for something like this. 630 00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:31,480 Speaker 1: I'm not seeing men in black encounter stories and you know, 631 00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:34,000 Speaker 1: take that. That's one thing. The other thing for me 632 00:40:34,200 --> 00:40:37,600 Speaker 1: is why would a government agent, let's say they're completely human, 633 00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:40,480 Speaker 1: their government agents, they know someone seeing something that they 634 00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:46,400 Speaker 1: shouldn't see. Why would you expend resources making up stories 635 00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:51,200 Speaker 1: and trying to prevent some witness from talking in that way? 636 00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:54,000 Speaker 1: This is cold, But why would you not take them 637 00:40:54,040 --> 00:40:56,920 Speaker 1: out in an accident or something, or you know, make 638 00:40:56,960 --> 00:41:02,440 Speaker 1: it look like an accident, or just pay them money? 639 00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:06,120 Speaker 1: And well, I don't know. It doesn't make sense to me. 640 00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:10,680 Speaker 1: It feels like if it was worth keeping secret enough 641 00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:15,600 Speaker 1: a government entity, if it was, if if it was 642 00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:20,120 Speaker 1: operating like that, they would just take somebody out. To me, 643 00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:25,520 Speaker 1: And and also the the way the folklore works here 644 00:41:25,640 --> 00:41:29,240 Speaker 1: is that interest in it is cyclical, so it'll rise 645 00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:34,239 Speaker 1: and fall, and typically it'll it'll rise when you know, 646 00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:38,560 Speaker 1: another popular piece of fiction comes out about it at 647 00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:42,319 Speaker 1: this point. And so if there's an something with the 648 00:41:42,360 --> 00:41:45,479 Speaker 1: success level of the X Files, then that would be enough, 649 00:41:45,640 --> 00:41:48,399 Speaker 1: that would be enough to move the needle. But the 650 00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:53,560 Speaker 1: thing that still gets me, it's just like we're saying 651 00:41:53,640 --> 00:41:55,720 Speaker 1: how bad they would have to be at their job, 652 00:41:56,440 --> 00:41:59,279 Speaker 1: Like every story is these people told me never to 653 00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:04,279 Speaker 1: talk about them, and I'm saying it at a lecture hall, right, 654 00:42:04,680 --> 00:42:12,520 Speaker 1: or I'm traceable, I s P. You know, that's so bizarre. 655 00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:19,080 Speaker 1: And maybe maybe this goes away because the what we 656 00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:22,480 Speaker 1: see and what we've referenced here shows that it's increasingly 657 00:42:22,520 --> 00:42:26,359 Speaker 1: being understood by a lot of people as a fictional thing, 658 00:42:26,440 --> 00:42:29,440 Speaker 1: a folkloric thing. That's why we we had asked and 659 00:42:29,480 --> 00:42:34,040 Speaker 1: will ask again to hear your stories of encounters with 660 00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:38,960 Speaker 1: you know, shadowy government agents, if you believe, And do 661 00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:40,960 Speaker 1: you think they were men in black or do you 662 00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:44,680 Speaker 1: think like these were just like were they just the 663 00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:49,920 Speaker 1: FBI being a weirdly enigmatic because usually they would announce 664 00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:52,120 Speaker 1: who they are, right, they would say like, hey, when 665 00:42:52,160 --> 00:42:56,359 Speaker 1: I'm an FBI agents, so and so this were they 666 00:42:56,360 --> 00:42:58,960 Speaker 1: were also hanging out with David Blaine or no, I 667 00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:01,040 Speaker 1: guess no, they couldn't be Lane at the time, or 668 00:43:01,080 --> 00:43:05,080 Speaker 1: maybe a different reincarnation of Blaine however that works. But 669 00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:08,640 Speaker 1: he taught them how to make it look like they're levitating. 670 00:43:09,320 --> 00:43:12,120 Speaker 1: I like the idea of it. Not not David Blaine 671 00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:15,600 Speaker 1: teaching them stuff, but David Blaine just like always also 672 00:43:15,719 --> 00:43:18,800 Speaker 1: being there with the guys like my name is Mr 673 00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:22,400 Speaker 1: uh Smith, and then like and I'm David Blaine, and 674 00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:25,240 Speaker 1: then you got Chris Angel mind freak. He's like running 675 00:43:25,280 --> 00:43:28,440 Speaker 1: the car anyway. Yeah, I love it. They're all levitating. 676 00:43:29,080 --> 00:43:31,960 Speaker 1: You know who else is a big outspoken Men in 677 00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:36,239 Speaker 1: Black truther or is Dan Ackroyd Oh Yeah. Yeah. He 678 00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:41,520 Speaker 1: claims to have had several encounters uh that date pretty 679 00:43:41,560 --> 00:43:45,080 Speaker 1: far back um with Men in Black and and UFOs 680 00:43:45,120 --> 00:43:48,560 Speaker 1: and he's also like a big supporter of moufon and 681 00:43:48,760 --> 00:43:51,920 Speaker 1: all of that stuff. Pretty pretty interesting. There's actually videos 682 00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:54,080 Speaker 1: of him on on YouTube of him talking about it, 683 00:43:54,480 --> 00:43:57,680 Speaker 1: and he will post up at UFO conferences from time 684 00:43:57,719 --> 00:44:00,640 Speaker 1: to time, so he's very invested in this whole concept. 685 00:44:01,080 --> 00:44:07,480 Speaker 1: Dan Ackroid has a fascinating family history with some stuff 686 00:44:07,520 --> 00:44:10,200 Speaker 1: that it's just I mean, it's it's a little out there, 687 00:44:10,280 --> 00:44:13,759 Speaker 1: but you could totally see why Dan himself would be 688 00:44:14,080 --> 00:44:17,080 Speaker 1: into this stuff because of his parents. It'd be great 689 00:44:17,080 --> 00:44:19,080 Speaker 1: to uh, it'd be it'd be great to hear his 690 00:44:19,160 --> 00:44:22,560 Speaker 1: stories firsthand. But yeah, he has been an active member 691 00:44:22,600 --> 00:44:26,600 Speaker 1: of the ufology community for a long long time and 692 00:44:26,640 --> 00:44:29,839 Speaker 1: he's very well versed on the subject, and you too, 693 00:44:30,080 --> 00:44:33,799 Speaker 1: maybe thinking I've had an experience with something like this. 694 00:44:34,560 --> 00:44:38,080 Speaker 1: Maybe I don't believe there are men in black with superpowers, 695 00:44:38,160 --> 00:44:40,400 Speaker 1: and maybe I don't believe they're aliens, but there's someone 696 00:44:40,520 --> 00:44:45,360 Speaker 1: out there and they told me there was something, uh, 697 00:44:45,520 --> 00:44:49,640 Speaker 1: they would rather the public not know. If that's the case, 698 00:44:50,080 --> 00:44:52,239 Speaker 1: we would love to hear your story. We'd also love 699 00:44:52,320 --> 00:44:55,239 Speaker 1: to hear your take on the concepts of men and black, 700 00:44:55,280 --> 00:44:57,759 Speaker 1: the evolution of men and black in general. So hit 701 00:44:57,840 --> 00:45:00,479 Speaker 1: us up. We try to be easy to find online. Yeah, 702 00:45:00,560 --> 00:45:02,680 Speaker 1: you can find us on YouTube, you can find us 703 00:45:02,719 --> 00:45:04,279 Speaker 1: on Facebook, you can find us on Twitter at the 704 00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:07,920 Speaker 1: handle Conspiracy Stuff. We're also Conspiracy Stuff show on Instagram, 705 00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:09,960 Speaker 1: and don't forget about the Facebook group. Here's where it 706 00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:13,160 Speaker 1: gets crazy. You can join that and share memes and 707 00:45:13,280 --> 00:45:15,879 Speaker 1: uh and quips with all your fellow conspiracy realists. It's 708 00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:19,080 Speaker 1: a fun place full of good folks. Um. If you 709 00:45:19,080 --> 00:45:21,399 Speaker 1: don't want to do that, you can give us telephone call. Yes, 710 00:45:21,440 --> 00:45:24,480 Speaker 1: our number is one eight three three st d w 711 00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:28,000 Speaker 1: y t K. You've got three minutes leave a message. 712 00:45:28,040 --> 00:45:31,200 Speaker 1: Do whatever you will in those three minutes. Please leave 713 00:45:31,280 --> 00:45:33,960 Speaker 1: yourself a cool nickname. We'd rather use that than your 714 00:45:34,000 --> 00:45:36,839 Speaker 1: real name. Uh, Seth, You've gotta stop calling them, By 715 00:45:36,840 --> 00:45:40,200 Speaker 1: the way, so many messages from Seth Right now, he's reporting, 716 00:45:41,560 --> 00:45:44,280 Speaker 1: it's reporting all kinds of shadows out in the woods 717 00:45:44,320 --> 00:45:48,840 Speaker 1: over there and on the lake. I do appreciate that. 718 00:45:48,920 --> 00:45:55,279 Speaker 1: It's a sound name each time. Yeah, appreciate that, though 719 00:45:56,000 --> 00:45:59,200 Speaker 1: we do. I can tell, like immediately said, he has 720 00:45:59,200 --> 00:46:03,080 Speaker 1: a melody. It's voice. It's it's quite unique. It's soothing. 721 00:46:04,080 --> 00:46:07,279 Speaker 1: Uh okay, So do that. Leave your message. It's with 722 00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:10,960 Speaker 1: your mouth, with your voice. If you have more to share, 723 00:46:11,160 --> 00:46:13,719 Speaker 1: then you can fit into that three minutes. Please instead 724 00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:17,560 Speaker 1: send us a good old fashioned email. We are conspiracy 725 00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:38,880 Speaker 1: at iHeart radio dot com. Stuff they don't want you 726 00:46:38,920 --> 00:46:41,560 Speaker 1: to know is a production of I Heart Radio For 727 00:46:41,640 --> 00:46:44,000 Speaker 1: more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the i heart 728 00:46:44,080 --> 00:46:46,840 Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your 729 00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:47,560 Speaker 1: favorite shows.