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Speaker 1: Hi Katie, Hi Brian, and hello listeners. We hope you

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Speaker 1: enjoyed our first dispatch from London last week with Graham Norton,

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Speaker 1: who I think is adorable. I was just in parrassed,

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Speaker 1: as they say, not in London exactly. We'll be bringing

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Speaker 1: you more conversations from the UK in the month to come.

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Speaker 1: But today we have another destination podcast for you of

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Speaker 1: a very different sort. Is it like a destination wedding Brian,

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Speaker 1: something like that, or more like Robin Leach is Lifestyles

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Speaker 1: the Rich and Famous. So we recorded this one in

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Speaker 1: a mansion overlooking Beverly Hills. We figured what better place

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Speaker 1: to interview a household name like Dr Phil than well

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Speaker 1: in his house. And let's be clear, this is not

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Speaker 1: an ordinary house. From the rolls in the driveway to

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Speaker 1: the Morano glass ping pong table, Phil McGraw and his

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Speaker 1: lovely wife Robin clearly relish their creature, comforts and each other.

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Speaker 1: We've been married forty one years, almost forty two, yeah

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Speaker 1: for almost way tow been together forty and we just

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Speaker 1: start having more fun than a barrel of monkeys. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's it's crazy, and we have a good time and

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Speaker 1: we love it up here. Sometimes we get behind these gates,

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Speaker 1: and sometimes we won't leave for a week or ten.

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Speaker 1: I was gonna say, I don't think I'd ever leave

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Speaker 1: the house if I lived here. Tennis court here, I

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Speaker 1: got a clay court here. Every day, I play summary

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Speaker 1: eight times a week. Clearly, he's in really good shape.

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Speaker 1: And you know, while he loves living in this house,

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Speaker 1: it was Robin who first fell for it. She noticed

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Speaker 1: it under construction about a decade ago, and she liked

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Speaker 1: it so much she started driving by every few months

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Speaker 1: to check on its progress. And Phil noticed how much

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Speaker 1: his wife loved this house, so he decided to buy

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Speaker 1: it for her. So he just approached the owner and

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Speaker 1: wrote a check. And when you host the number one

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Speaker 1: daytime talk show in America, like Phil does, you can

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Speaker 1: just do that. But here's the romantic part, Brian. Phil

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Speaker 1: didn't tell Robin what he had done. He wanted to

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Speaker 1: surprise her, so one day he suggested they drive to

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Speaker 1: the house together just to check out what was going on.

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Speaker 1: And when they arrived, the gate was open, so was

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Speaker 1: the front door. Robin was a little freaked out. She

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Speaker 1: was wary. She didn't want them to call the police,

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Speaker 1: but Phil convinced her to walk with him to the porch.

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Speaker 1: And here's what happened next, in Robin mccraw's own words,

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Speaker 1: let me tell it, let me tell you. I'm hiding

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Speaker 1: behind you because of course I trust you im he'll

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Speaker 1: protect me. But I said, phill up, Okay, okay, I've

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Speaker 1: seen let's Philip and he laugh. I said, but let's

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Speaker 1: get the car. Let's go. And he goes, You're fine,

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Speaker 1: let's look and I know, and all of a sudden

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Speaker 1: he flips around. He picks me up in his arms,

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Speaker 1: carries me over the threshold and says, welcome home. I

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Speaker 1: just thought you this house. Wow. Clearly she gets a

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Speaker 1: little giddy just talking about it. And so when Brian

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Speaker 1: and I asked for a tour of their digs, well,

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Speaker 1: the mcgraws were happy to oblige you. None so are

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Speaker 1: I think it takes about a week to see all that.

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Speaker 1: We have a wine cellar with the ceiling came from

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Speaker 1: the Tibetan rainforest, from Tibetan monks, and from the sixteen hundreds.

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Speaker 1: It's amazing, Brian, doesn't your wine cellar ceiling wasn't that

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Speaker 1: made by Tibetan monks? If I recall, yeah, but in

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Speaker 1: the sixteenth century. I mean, I think the seventeenth century

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Speaker 1: ones are just junk. So I refused that just so. Meanwhile,

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Speaker 1: all that wine and even a bar in the house,

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Speaker 1: But both Robin and Phil are children of alcoholics, and

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Speaker 1: Phil told us he doesn't drink. I just resolved early

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Speaker 1: on because I saw what it did, was my dad. So,

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Speaker 1: did you ever drink? Did you? I tried in high school.

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Speaker 1: I tried to get drunk in high school, and I

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Speaker 1: would get a hangover while I was drinking. Brian, who

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Speaker 1: needs alcohol. The view from the backyard is absolutely intoxicating.

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Speaker 1: You can walk in the front door and see all

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Speaker 1: the way across downtown because we love the weather out

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Speaker 1: here and we love opening these doors and looking out

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Speaker 1: and just seeing everything that we can. It's spectacular. We

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Speaker 1: have this big outside area and then it leads to

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Speaker 1: a swimming pool, which is beautiful and a spectacular view.

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Speaker 1: Just your typical American family house. So listeners, it was

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Speaker 1: a lot to take in. We really could have taken

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Speaker 1: you with us for this one. I think they all

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Speaker 1: fit in the house. Actually, yeah, I think that's I

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Speaker 1: don't know what that says about our ratings. Or their

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Speaker 1: house or maybe both. They would have been very crowded

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Speaker 1: and very tight, but extremely crowded. And when we were

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Speaker 1: done peeking around, Katie and I sat down with just

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Speaker 1: Phil to talk about really everything. This was one of

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Speaker 1: our most thorough and interesting interviews yet, at least in

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Speaker 1: my view. I think you also mean long, So get comfortable, everybody.

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Speaker 1: We had a lot to cover, from how Oprah was

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Speaker 1: instrumental in his success, so the critics who are not

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Speaker 1: fans of the medicine, doctor Phil is dispensing, especially because

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Speaker 1: they say he's not a real doctor, even though he

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Speaker 1: does a PhD in psychology and in fact, Brian, you know,

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Speaker 1: when I posted a photo of the three of us

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Speaker 1: on Instagram, there were a lot of positive comments, but

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Speaker 1: also quite a few negative ones. To one person wrote,

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Speaker 1: this guy's con man one podcast, I'll be missing. Someone

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Speaker 1: else chimed in Dr Phil is an arrogant jerk, And

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Speaker 1: then there was this person who said, not stoked about him,

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Speaker 1: but we'll listen because of you. Katie Couric and you

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Speaker 1: bribbly wrote that one actually just to give you a

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Speaker 1: little boost anyway, Thank you for that. Thank you for

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Speaker 1: holding your nose and listening to that listener, but clearly

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Speaker 1: not everyone. Brian is a fan of Dr Phil. But

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Speaker 1: at the same time Phil show is top rated and

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Speaker 1: by the way, is now sixteen seasons in, so he's

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Speaker 1: doing something right. So I'll be curious to hear, Brian

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Speaker 1: if we change any hearts and minds with this episode.

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Speaker 1: After people here a little bit about Dr Phil's backstory,

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Speaker 1: so we put him in the hot seat for a

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Speaker 1: change and tried to find out what makes him tick

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Speaker 1: and by the way, what got him into psychology Long

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Speaker 1: before his TV show was ever. Phil trained to be

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Speaker 1: a psychologist and he and his dad went into practice

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Speaker 1: together in Wichita Falls, Texas. So I wanted to know

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Speaker 1: did he always dream of getting into people's heads? There

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Speaker 1: was a specific time I can tell you the specific

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Speaker 1: moment that I got interested in it. It wasn't something

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Speaker 1: that I kind of warm too. There was a specific

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Speaker 1: moment in my life that it became a focus of mine.

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Speaker 1: I'm excited to hear about this. What was it? It

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Speaker 1: involved football and I was in Oklahoma City and we

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Speaker 1: were on a team that really had a lot of

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Speaker 1: great equipment and great uniforms. I mean everything was. We

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Speaker 1: had black uniforms with silver, straight very, Friday night lights

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Speaker 1: very and arm bands. I mean, we looked badass, I'm

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Speaker 1: telling you. And we thought we were a badass. And

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Speaker 1: we had a game rain out, and the Salvation Army

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Speaker 1: had a team and they called our coach and said,

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Speaker 1: I know he had a game rain out. Could we

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Speaker 1: come Monday and play a scrimmage game with you? And

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Speaker 1: the coach that sure. So Monday they show up over

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Speaker 1: there to play us. Three pickups pull up and these

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Speaker 1: kids start piling out the back. It looked like the

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Speaker 1: grapes of wrath. I mean, and I'm aging myself, but

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Speaker 1: I don't think anyone up. But but I mean the kid,

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Speaker 1: for example, that lined up across from me had on

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Speaker 1: blue jeans for football pants, and he had them rolled

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Speaker 1: up so they kind of looked like football pants. He

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Speaker 1: had on loafers for shoes instead of football shoes. He

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Speaker 1: had a button up shirt and he had the number

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Speaker 1: four on it with masking tape. And I'm thinking, you know,

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Speaker 1: we're in a huddle, kind of snicker, and you know, like,

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Speaker 1: why didn't he put it on a magic marker that's

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Speaker 1: going to come off? Well, he didn't put it on

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Speaker 1: a magic marker because that was his shirt. That wasn't

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Speaker 1: his shirt for the day that he had to wear

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Speaker 1: that to school the next day. And so they don't

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Speaker 1: kick off because it's a scrimmage. They just snapped the ball,

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Speaker 1: and they snapped the ball. That kid hit me so

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Speaker 1: hard it still hurts when it rains. I kid you not.

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Speaker 1: They beat us like they were clapping for a barn dance.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I thought it was a track meet. They're

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Speaker 1: running up and down the field. We can't catch them there.

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Speaker 1: They probably beat us fifty to nothing. And I remember

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Speaker 1: getting in the car everything heard. I had dirt in

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Speaker 1: my mouth, you know, I'm looking out the ear hole

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Speaker 1: in my helmet. I asked my dad what the hell happened,

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Speaker 1: and he said, well, you just got your gass handed

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Speaker 1: to you. Boy. I said, well, I was looking for

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Speaker 1: a little more depth of an answer, and he said

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Speaker 1: they were just hungry. They wanted it more than you did.

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Speaker 1: And in that moment, even at that age I was

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Speaker 1: like twelve years old, I thought, if they can do

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Speaker 1: so much with so little, what should I be able

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Speaker 1: to do when I've got good equipment, coaches a grass field,

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Speaker 1: And I was envious. I walked away from their envious

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Speaker 1: of those kids. I wanted what they had, and that

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Speaker 1: interesting And here I am envious of the Salvation Army

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Speaker 1: kids because they had grit, they had they had burning

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Speaker 1: in their gut. And at that moment I got focused

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Speaker 1: on studying why people do what they do and don't

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Speaker 1: do what they don't do. I wanted to know. So

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Speaker 1: while all my friends were putting together model airplanes and

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Speaker 1: sniffing the glue, I was in the library trying to

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Speaker 1: read books on motivation and why some people had it

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Speaker 1: and some people didn't. I started at twelve years old.

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Speaker 1: I became fascinated with it, and I've never ever stopped

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Speaker 1: being fascinated. You spent a lot of time as a

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Speaker 1: psychologist studying the treatment of pain, which obviously is a

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Speaker 1: very big issue these days, not just with opioids, but

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Speaker 1: according to the ni H, more than twenty five million

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Speaker 1: Americans experienced chronic pain, which is pain every single day

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Speaker 1: for the last three months. Um, I don't think people

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Speaker 1: who don't have pain realize how debilitating and depressing it is.

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Speaker 1: What do you attribute this epidemic of pain to? Well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's interesting that you bring that up, Robin, and I

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Speaker 1: just got back we testified before a joint committee Biparisan

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Speaker 1: committee in Congress last week about the opioid crisis, and

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Speaker 1: particularly with regard to addicted mothers and their children, either

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Speaker 1: that they're pregnant with or have just had, and what

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Speaker 1: should happen to them, because I feel very strongly about that.

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Speaker 1: But there's organic pain and then there's pain that is perceived,

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Speaker 1: and there's two very big differences there. And I used

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Speaker 1: to run a pain clinic inside a hospital, and there

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Speaker 1: are so many alternatives to the management of pain besides

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Speaker 1: opioids and these other pain killers. But medicine has become

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Speaker 1: a high volume business, and it takes time to teach

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Speaker 1: people neurotherapy, biofeedback, do cryotherapy, do other things to manage pain.

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Speaker 1: That takes time. It takes two seconds to write a prescription.

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Speaker 1: And there are enough opioid prescriptions right now for every

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Speaker 1: person in America to have their own bottle. And if

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Speaker 1: you take those pills past the eighth day, you have

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Speaker 1: a one in seven chance of being addicted at one year.

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Speaker 1: If you macome at thirty days, if you're still taking

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Speaker 1: you have a one in three chance of being addicted

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Speaker 1: at the end of a year. This is an epidemic.

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Speaker 1: What should be done when you testify it on Capitol Helleny,

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Speaker 1: what do you see as the way out of this mess? Well,

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Speaker 1: I think there has to be accountability right now. There

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Speaker 1: has to be accountability. I think the doctors have to

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Speaker 1: be made highly aware of what's happening with these people

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Speaker 1: and the high level of risk for addiction. Look, these doctors,

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Speaker 1: most of the doctors that are writing these prescriptions are

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Speaker 1: well trained, well intended, responsible professionals. But they need to

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Speaker 1: be constantly reminded that these patients will ask for more

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Speaker 1: and more and more as long as you'll give them

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Speaker 1: to them. And so they have to have a constant

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Speaker 1: reminder and they need to give three to five of

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Speaker 1: these pills, not thirty. And then the manufacturers have to

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Speaker 1: be held to account in that regard. And because what's

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Speaker 1: happening now is you have a whole new population of

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Speaker 1: heroin addict in the suburbs because they take the opioids

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Speaker 1: for a period of time and then they stopped taking

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Speaker 1: them because heroin is cheaper. So you've now got soccer

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Speaker 1: moms on heroin because they can't afford the opiate. It's

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Speaker 1: a whole new population of heroin addicts, and you spoke

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Speaker 1: about the danger of mothers and fathers who are addicted,

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Speaker 1: and maybe the mom was addicted while she was pregnant,

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Speaker 1: or they're addicted while they have a young kid. What

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Speaker 1: do they do in that situation? How do we respond

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Speaker 1: as a society to those people. What Robin and I

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Speaker 1: are advocating for is for them to repurpose dollars in

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Speaker 1: the Family First Act, where now the dollars are only

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Speaker 1: allowed to be used for fall sster care. And what

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Speaker 1: we're advocating is that instead of using those dollars for

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Speaker 1: foster care, put these mothers in family based residential treatment

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Speaker 1: where the baby stays with them. And you said, well,

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Speaker 1: why would you leave a baby with a drug addic mother, Well,

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Speaker 1: this may be the only time the mother hasn't been

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Speaker 1: on drugs is while she's in the treatment center. And

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Speaker 1: she might be there six months, seven months, eight months,

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Speaker 1: but she's there with her baby. And what happens is

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Speaker 1: you're now you're not putting two people in the system.

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Speaker 1: You put one child in foster care, you put a

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Speaker 1: mother in prison or whatever. You can't punish your way

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Speaker 1: out of this epidemic. So if you put the mother

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Speaker 1: and child together in a family based residential treatment center

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Speaker 1: A the mother's gonna bond with the baby, they're less

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Speaker 1: likely to abandoned the child later. You're not going to

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Speaker 1: load up and already overwhelm foster care system, so they

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Speaker 1: just need to free up some of that money and

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Speaker 1: let it go to treatment. You're not going to punish

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Speaker 1: your way out of this. You're going to treat your

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Speaker 1: way out of it. Before we talk a little more

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Speaker 1: about your road to success, Phil and I know Brian

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Speaker 1: is particularly interested in Courtroom Sciences, which you co founded,

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Speaker 1: as Brian's a lawyer, but I wanted to ask you

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Speaker 1: about recent events. Having just talked about opioid in this epidemic,

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Speaker 1: there's an epidemic of gun violence happening in this country.

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Speaker 1: As I came over to see you today, as Brian

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Speaker 1: and I met you at your house, there was yet

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Speaker 1: another shooting in your home state of Texas, outside Houston,

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Speaker 1: in a town called Santa Fe. I don't know the

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Speaker 1: latest numbers, but it went last I checked, it was

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Speaker 1: eight or nine students, at least ten students murdered in

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Speaker 1: their high school. And it makes me so upset and

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Speaker 1: so infuriated and this of course comes on the heels

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Speaker 1: of Parkland, which was what just over three months ago, Phil,

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Speaker 1: What are we going to do about this? You know,

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Speaker 1: I had many of the Parkland students on my show

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Speaker 1: and I had some of the Columbine students there at

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Speaker 1: the same time, and uh, there was a really interesting

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Speaker 1: dynamic there because these Columbine students, We're saying, every time

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Speaker 1: this happens, they get re traumatized. It triggers for them

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Speaker 1: and they never really got what they needed in the interim.

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Speaker 1: And this is, by the way, almost twenty years ago,

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Speaker 1: because Columbine happened in because I covered that shooting. And

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Speaker 1: by the way, there was a girl who was interviewed

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Speaker 1: today who was at the school and she was asked

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Speaker 1: the question that all the reporters asked, that you ever

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Speaker 1: think it could happen here? And her response was so

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Speaker 1: striking to me. She said, yes, I thought it could

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Speaker 1: happen here because it's happening all over the place. I

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Speaker 1: expected at some point there would be a shooting here.

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Speaker 1: I think there have been. We could look it up

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Speaker 1: right quick, but I think there have been close to

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Speaker 1: thirty school shooting so far this year. It's like one

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Speaker 1: a week, I think, yeah, something that's just terrible. Um,

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Speaker 1: here's the problem. From a psychological standpoint, we absolutely do

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Speaker 1: not have the ability to predict who's going to do this. UM.

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Speaker 1: And you can say, well, if anybody has a history

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Speaker 1: of mental illness, don't give him a gun. The mentally

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Speaker 1: ill population has a lower incidence of violence than a

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Speaker 1: general population. I know. And it infuriates me when people

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Speaker 1: say it's mental illness because that is such a red herring,

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Speaker 1: and it also stigmatizes everyone with mental illness. And they're real,

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Speaker 1: real people in every country, but they don't have this

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Speaker 1: gun violence problem. So what is the solution? Um? I

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Speaker 1: think what we have to do is have an intelligent

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Speaker 1: conversation about this instead of a political yelling match about this. Amen.

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Speaker 1: Right now, you've got people on both sides of this

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Speaker 1: issue that takes something like this and politicize it. I

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Speaker 1: think what you have to do is start out by saying,

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Speaker 1: let's see what we agree on. Anytime I'm negotiating with somebody,

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Speaker 1: the first thing I try to do is narrow the

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Speaker 1: issues and say, before we try to resolve our differences,

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Speaker 1: let's see what we agree on. Because when you do that,

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Speaker 1: you often find out that you're not nearly as far

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Speaker 1: apart as you. Thank you on this issue, though, Phil,

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Speaker 1: I honestly really wonder for this super extremists and you

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Speaker 1: n r A members actually believe there should be more

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Speaker 1: sensible gun laws. But for the extremists who believe there's

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Speaker 1: a slippery slope and this is the price of liberty

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Speaker 1: and freedom, this is what we have to put up with.

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Speaker 1: There's very there's not much of a vent diagram between

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Speaker 1: the two groups. That doesn't mean there can't be I mean, look,

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Speaker 1: is there any theory under which somebody needs an A

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Speaker 1: K forty seven? Is there any theory under which anybody

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Speaker 1: needs an assault rifle? I don't care if you're the

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Speaker 1: most staunch Second Amendment supporter in the world. Is there

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Speaker 1: any reason that there is a recreational use a Second

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Speaker 1: Amendment justification for an A K forty seven where you

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Speaker 1: can put out so much lead, so much death in

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Speaker 1: a short period of time, that let's find out, there

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Speaker 1: has to be some sensibility that comes along with it.

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Speaker 1: You can't have rights without responsibilities, and you can't say

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Speaker 1: we have to throw out the Amendment. That doesn't mean

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Speaker 1: you can't have some modifications within the US. You you you

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Speaker 1: have people right now that are just so they have

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Speaker 1: so much firepower to do so much devastation in such

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Speaker 1: a short period of time, that we are setting ourselves

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Speaker 1: up for destruction. That has to change. It absolutely has

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Speaker 1: to change. It's time now to take a quick break.

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Speaker 1: When we come back, Phil tells us about his old

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Speaker 1: gig running a trial consulting firm and how this work

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Speaker 1: led him to the woman who gave him his big break.

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Speaker 1: I'm talking about Oprah people. That's right after this and

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Speaker 1: now back to our interview with Dr Phil McGrath. You

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Speaker 1: took a turn in your career. You co founded a

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Speaker 1: company called Courtroom Sciences, Inc. Predating cs I. You have

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Speaker 1: the original c s I, which is a trial consulting firm.

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Speaker 1: Can you explain what that business did what you did? Yes, Um, basically,

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Speaker 1: in every situation, if you know what your fact pattern is,

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Speaker 1: you may have a thousand facts. I'll promise you there

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Speaker 1: is a subset of those thousand facts, maybe ten or twelve,

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Speaker 1: configured in a certain way that, if presented, are your

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Speaker 1: best chance of getting home, your best chance to get

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Speaker 1: into a verdict. And trial science is about finding out

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Speaker 1: out of that thousand facts, what are those best twelve

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Speaker 1: and who are they best presented to and in what way?

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Speaker 1: And so we always researched cases. Uh, we trained witnesses

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Speaker 1: to tell the truth effectively. There's a big different. It's

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Speaker 1: between telling the truth and telling the truth effectively. And

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Speaker 1: we we're very active in jury selection. It's really de selection,

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Speaker 1: but in shaping who gets on the jury and then

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Speaker 1: figuring out what they need to hear to support your case.

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Speaker 1: But do you ever feel that's unethical in any way?

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Speaker 1: Do you feel like it's stacking the jury? It's kind

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Speaker 1: of antithetical to uh, you know, a jury of your peers,

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Speaker 1: because only wealthy clients can afford the services of somebody

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Speaker 1: like that, and that, Um, I don't know that. There's

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Speaker 1: something that just is intrinsically unjust about that telling the

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Speaker 1: truth effectively, not so much telling the truth effectively, but

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Speaker 1: hand picking people who you believe will help your clients. Well,

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Speaker 1: that presumes that the other side is not hand picking

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Speaker 1: the jury as best they can. Well, if they have

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Speaker 1: a public defender, probably they're not. Oh, we work with

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Speaker 1: the public defenders a lot. Really sure, we did a

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Speaker 1: lot of proboble in cases. But understand they're trying to

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Speaker 1: pick the best jury they possibly can do. I think

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Speaker 1: it's unethically to do it better. No, No, I don't

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Speaker 1: doing your void dear thing. Right, is how you met

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Speaker 1: Oprah Winfrey is So that was back in the day

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Speaker 1: when she was being sued for something she said on

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Speaker 1: her program about mad cow disease. Right, So tell us

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Speaker 1: about that meeting. And obviously there was some kismet for

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Speaker 1: both of you, and she had you at hello, or

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Speaker 1: you had her at hello. Well, she was sued, and

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Speaker 1: again this is a situation where in the court of

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Speaker 1: public opinion, and she was sued by ranchers cattleman, which

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Speaker 1: was not the case at all. She was sued by

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Speaker 1: cattle manufacturers. These were feed lot people that moved cattle

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Speaker 1: by the tens of thousands through feed lost. This wasn't

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Speaker 1: Joe Rancher out here cow pokin and you know feeding

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Speaker 1: this cattle agricultural industrial complex. It was big business, big business.

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Speaker 1: And she made a comment about beef and cattle futures

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Speaker 1: went limited down on the Chicago Board of Trade that day,

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Speaker 1: which equals billions of dollars. And so she was sued

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Speaker 1: um unjustly in my opinion, and so they took her

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Speaker 1: to trial in federal court in Amarillo, and um, not

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Speaker 1: a great place to be. Not a great place to be.

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Speaker 1: I remember just as the trial was starting, she leaned

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Speaker 1: up to me and said, UM, I don't see any

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Speaker 1: peers over there. I don't I don't see black jerors.

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Speaker 1: I don't see anybody over there looks like me. And

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Speaker 1: that panel derived income directly or indirectly from the beef industry,

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Speaker 1: then why couldn't you move to have the trial relocated?

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Speaker 1: Because the judge said, no, oh, I hate that. So

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Speaker 1: did I think it was unfair to help her? No?

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Speaker 1: I didn't think it was unfair to help her. And

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Speaker 1: we worked on that. We we tried that case several

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Speaker 1: times to figure out what that configuration of facts were.

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Speaker 1: And um, we worked on it for two and a

404
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Speaker 1: half years before trial. And then when it went to trial,

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Speaker 1: we all lived in a bed and breakfast. Uh myself, Oprah,

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00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:07,360
Speaker 1: chip Babcock law, you're extraordinaire. Um. Her executive producer Stephen

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Speaker 1: was there. Some We lived in a bed and breakfast

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Speaker 1: town on the edge of town for a couple of months.

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Speaker 1: Like the sister, I never wanted. But if you're going

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Speaker 1: to have an extra sister, Oprah is a great one

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Speaker 1: to have, right, So we lived together out there and

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Speaker 1: tried that for a couple of a couple of months

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Speaker 1: and ultimately you prevailed. We zeroed them out. Yeah, we

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Speaker 1: zeroed them out, and uh we had a great We

415
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Speaker 1: had some great times during that. We have a state

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Speaker 1: dinner to celebrate, No, we had port dinner to celebrate,

417
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Speaker 1: but we used to. We used to go from the

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Speaker 1: bed and breakfast to the courthouse and we had to

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Speaker 1: put a this big tent up over the portice here

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Speaker 1: because there were death threats when we were in cattle country,

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Speaker 1: and so there was a lead car and then a

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Speaker 1: bulletproof car, and then a chase car and we left

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Speaker 1: to load. And many a day and nobody knows this,

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00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:07,520
Speaker 1: so it's a little but many a day that motorcade

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00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:10,120
Speaker 1: would pull in there and it would be this big

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Speaker 1: flurry and everybody would jump in and zoom off the

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Speaker 1: court and about five minutes later, Oprah and I would

428
00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:18,360
Speaker 1: go out the back door and get in my rented

429
00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:22,280
Speaker 1: Toyota and we would pull out and drive around Ambarillo

430
00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:26,879
Speaker 1: and go through the mall and look around exactly hang out,

431
00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:31,360
Speaker 1: do you do you think Oprah should run for president. Uh.

432
00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:37,800
Speaker 1: I think she is a wise woman that has uh

433
00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:44,879
Speaker 1: much more knowledge of international affairs and geopolitics than people

434
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:50,119
Speaker 1: would ever imagine. Whether she should run or not, you know,

435
00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:53,040
Speaker 1: that's up to how much sacrifice she wants to make.

436
00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:58,320
Speaker 1: But uh, she certainly is better prepared than some and

437
00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:02,520
Speaker 1: you'd vote for I would vote for her because I

438
00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:07,040
Speaker 1: know how well she prepares, I know how smart she is,

439
00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:10,600
Speaker 1: and I know how sincere she is. So you published

440
00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:13,320
Speaker 1: the first of nine best selling books soon after you

441
00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:16,360
Speaker 1: worked with Oprah, and so many of your books deal

442
00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:20,760
Speaker 1: with the challenges families face, especially married couples. We talked

443
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:25,119
Speaker 1: about the amazing marriage you and Robin have. Um, Katie

444
00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:28,479
Speaker 1: and I are both married. Obviously, I don't think anyone

445
00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:33,399
Speaker 1: made that misunderstanding. So what are your top three or

446
00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:40,000
Speaker 1: four pieces of advice on developing or maintaining a happy marriage.

447
00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:45,120
Speaker 1: I think what you know. First off, preparation, Yeah, I

448
00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:49,840
Speaker 1: think everybody should go through premarital counseling, and by that

449
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:54,720
Speaker 1: I mean work out what the challenges are going to

450
00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:58,000
Speaker 1: be ahead of time. You need to figure out where

451
00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:05,800
Speaker 1: you both stand with your expectations on family, children, finances

452
00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:12,840
Speaker 1: in laws, religion, geography, division of labor, all of those things. Um,

453
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:15,720
Speaker 1: I don't think you should ever get married till you're

454
00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:20,640
Speaker 1: uh intended has had the flu. I mean if you

455
00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:23,720
Speaker 1: don't see them, if you don't see them in their

456
00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:27,800
Speaker 1: worst possible light, you don't see them throwing up and sick.

457
00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:32,360
Speaker 1: And I mean you got to see them not on

458
00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:35,880
Speaker 1: a marriage is not a date. It's not three sixty

459
00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:39,080
Speaker 1: five dates put together, and that's a year. You got

460
00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:41,680
Speaker 1: to see them in their most unflattering light. But you

461
00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:45,840
Speaker 1: certainly need to go through marital counseling. And you know,

462
00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:51,600
Speaker 1: it's not what happens in life that upsets people. It's there.

463
00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:55,880
Speaker 1: It's violating their expectation of what was supposed to happen

464
00:29:55,960 --> 00:30:00,080
Speaker 1: in life. If you go into marriage and you think it, know,

465
00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:02,400
Speaker 1: my wife's going to meet me at the back door

466
00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:05,160
Speaker 1: every day with a martini and a big smile on

467
00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:09,440
Speaker 1: her face or wrap, Yeah, exactly like every evening in

468
00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:13,400
Speaker 1: my house my husband is you know, he's just gonna

469
00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:17,040
Speaker 1: take me out dancing everywhere. Look, and then you get

470
00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:20,440
Speaker 1: in a marriage and you have a division of labor,

471
00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:23,000
Speaker 1: you have to go on a budget, you have kids

472
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:26,480
Speaker 1: getting you up at night, you're gonna think, oh my god,

473
00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:29,360
Speaker 1: this is horrible and you're going to label it a failure.

474
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:32,520
Speaker 1: But if you expected those things to happen and then

475
00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:34,239
Speaker 1: they do, you go, yeah, this is about what was

476
00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:37,080
Speaker 1: we expected. We're doing okay. So you have to have

477
00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:41,280
Speaker 1: realistic expectations. Really important to to talk about money, I

478
00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:45,160
Speaker 1: think before you get married, because I think that is

479
00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:50,360
Speaker 1: the number one divider of couples. And to have a

480
00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:55,160
Speaker 1: really good understanding about people's priorities and how they feel

481
00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:59,440
Speaker 1: about money, their relationship with it. I think is is

482
00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:04,160
Speaker 1: something that people feel uncomfortable discussing. But not that I'm

483
00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:06,640
Speaker 1: putting my doctor Phil had on, but it seems to

484
00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:10,200
Speaker 1: me really really important. If you talk to the American

485
00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:14,680
Speaker 1: Bar Association family lawyers and asked them what are the

486
00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:18,120
Speaker 1: number one reasons people show up for divorce that's on

487
00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:23,120
Speaker 1: the short list? You know, money, sex, parenting. These are

488
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:25,720
Speaker 1: things that people clash about because they didn't work it

489
00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:30,920
Speaker 1: out to begin with. And you know, another big thing

490
00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:35,000
Speaker 1: is if you have to stop being all of who

491
00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:42,520
Speaker 1: you are to behalf of a couple, bad deal, bad deal.

492
00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:45,360
Speaker 1: You gotta let your partner be who they are. And

493
00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:47,440
Speaker 1: if they've got to stop being who they are to

494
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:51,600
Speaker 1: be half of the couple. The cost is too high.

495
00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:53,920
Speaker 1: I couldn't agree more. But I also think a big

496
00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:57,000
Speaker 1: problem I've suddenly become a marriage counselor is that when

497
00:31:57,000 --> 00:32:00,320
Speaker 1: you take your partner for granted, right when you sort

498
00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:04,200
Speaker 1: of stop trying, when you get lazy when you I mean,

499
00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:08,280
Speaker 1: I find like, you know, you have to try to

500
00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:11,120
Speaker 1: look decent when when you're married and take care of

501
00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:15,480
Speaker 1: yourself and um, you know, sometimes I find that I

502
00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:18,680
Speaker 1: fall in that trap that I'm like, I can't believe

503
00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:21,280
Speaker 1: my husband is still married to me. But the way

504
00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:23,840
Speaker 1: I kind of I'm just a hot mess some of

505
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:25,760
Speaker 1: the time and I don't think he cares most of

506
00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:28,840
Speaker 1: the time. But I think you you have to keep trying,

507
00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:31,520
Speaker 1: I guess is what I'm trying to say in in

508
00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:36,520
Speaker 1: a clumsy way. You know, a relationship, any good relationship,

509
00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:41,040
Speaker 1: is going to be based on a solid underlying friendship.

510
00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:45,560
Speaker 1: And what a friends do. Friends talk to each other.

511
00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:49,920
Speaker 1: They tell each other jokes, they laugh, they share their day.

512
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:52,760
Speaker 1: And you'll see a married couple that will pass each

513
00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:57,560
Speaker 1: other in the hallway, uh, or they're out at dinner

514
00:32:57,600 --> 00:32:59,520
Speaker 1: and they're not talking to each other that makes that

515
00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:01,800
Speaker 1: breaks my heart. But then you see each of them

516
00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:03,400
Speaker 1: go to work and they see somebody in the hall,

517
00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:05,480
Speaker 1: they go, hey, good morning, how's it going. What did

518
00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:08,600
Speaker 1: you do last night? They'll put their social mask on

519
00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:11,360
Speaker 1: and put an effort in at work with somebody that

520
00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:13,640
Speaker 1: they won't do at home. At least do at home

521
00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:15,720
Speaker 1: what you will do at work. You sound like my

522
00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:22,360
Speaker 1: husband to John Mulner, have you married a wise man? John?

523
00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:25,800
Speaker 1: Stick with it said to return to our episode of

524
00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:28,680
Speaker 1: this is your Life, Dr Phil. So you became a

525
00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:31,920
Speaker 1: regular on oprah Show, and then with her help, you

526
00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:35,560
Speaker 1: developed your own show. And you know, I told a

527
00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:37,040
Speaker 1: couple of people I was going to talk to you,

528
00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:39,400
Speaker 1: and one thing that came up is how much of

529
00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:42,280
Speaker 1: your show is entertainment and how much of it is

530
00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:46,720
Speaker 1: psychological treatment? I mean, how do you think about that question? Well,

531
00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:48,840
Speaker 1: let me I have to stop you for a second

532
00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:52,360
Speaker 1: because you you glossed over that real quick. You said,

533
00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:56,040
Speaker 1: with her help you started your own show. Yeah, with

534
00:33:56,080 --> 00:34:00,160
Speaker 1: their help I started own show. Um, I was at

535
00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:04,440
Speaker 1: five years on the Oprah Show. And she was the

536
00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:10,040
Speaker 1: most generous spirited person. I mean, you know a lot

537
00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:15,200
Speaker 1: of people wouldn't be that way. Uh, Particularly when I

538
00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:18,919
Speaker 1: enjoyed success and there were rating spikes and stuff like that,

539
00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:21,760
Speaker 1: she would just keep just pushing me to the forefront,

540
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:23,880
Speaker 1: pushing me to the forefront, pushing me to the forefront.

541
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:27,040
Speaker 1: There were times when I would be on the show,

542
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:29,120
Speaker 1: she would just go sit out in the audience and

543
00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:30,719
Speaker 1: put a little table next to her chair and get

544
00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:32,440
Speaker 1: some hot tea and say, this is what are you

545
00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:35,560
Speaker 1: gonna do today? I mean, there's nothing. She she did

546
00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:41,000
Speaker 1: everything she possibly could to establish Dr Phil as a brand,

547
00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:45,400
Speaker 1: as a personality, just the most generous, supportive person you

548
00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:48,000
Speaker 1: could ever be. That's so nice. You know, you're right.

549
00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:51,040
Speaker 1: Many people would be like, wait, he's getting higher ratings,

550
00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:55,640
Speaker 1: get rid of them, And I mean, we're I talked

551
00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:57,439
Speaker 1: to her all time. I was just with her last week.

552
00:34:57,480 --> 00:35:02,000
Speaker 1: We spend lots of time together. Um now, so I

553
00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:07,680
Speaker 1: just had to Yeah, then your next question. I've been

554
00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:12,560
Speaker 1: asked this a lot, usually intended as an insult. I

555
00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:15,719
Speaker 1: don't take you so, I don't take you that as

556
00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:19,400
Speaker 1: asking it that way. I get ask it as an

557
00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:22,760
Speaker 1: insult by people saying a lot of what you do

558
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:25,560
Speaker 1: is entertainment. That's kind of how I get ask it.

559
00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:31,120
Speaker 1: So UM. And my answer to them is God, I

560
00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:40,840
Speaker 1: hope so, UM, Because if I don't present stories in

561
00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:47,120
Speaker 1: a compelling way, if I don't present scenarios in a

562
00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:53,239
Speaker 1: way that really get people intrigued and involved, They're gonna

563
00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:59,200
Speaker 1: go do something else. So I do try to present

564
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:06,200
Speaker 1: things in a in a way that is interesting and compelling. UM.

565
00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:10,600
Speaker 1: How much of it is entertainment versus psychological treatment? I

566
00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:17,120
Speaker 1: hope it's all entertaining. None of it is psychological treatment, UM.

567
00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:19,160
Speaker 1: I think of it is education, And I think of

568
00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:23,959
Speaker 1: every guest I have as a teaching tool. UM. And

569
00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:28,640
Speaker 1: when I say it's not psychological treatment, I mean I'm

570
00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:32,000
Speaker 1: never under the misapprehension and I'm doing eight minute cures

571
00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:37,160
Speaker 1: up there in segment to UM, people ask me sometimes,

572
00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:40,520
Speaker 1: you know, Dr Phil, do you think problems are as

573
00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:44,239
Speaker 1: simple as you make them out to be. I don't

574
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:46,880
Speaker 1: think problems are simple at all. I think they're often

575
00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:50,600
Speaker 1: very layered. I think they're often often co morbid. I

576
00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:57,000
Speaker 1: think they occur in parallel with different disorders happening at

577
00:36:57,000 --> 00:37:01,000
Speaker 1: the same time. I think the solutions are often very simple.

578
00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:06,399
Speaker 1: I think we make the solutions too complex. Sometimes it's

579
00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:08,880
Speaker 1: it's kind of the old Joel. If you go the

580
00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:11,239
Speaker 1: doctor and says it hurts when I raise my arm

581
00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:12,880
Speaker 1: like this, and he said, well think quit raising your

582
00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:14,879
Speaker 1: arm like that. You know your fix. Give me ten

583
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:21,520
Speaker 1: dollars to go home. Sometimes there are two pathways you

584
00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:25,640
Speaker 1: can go when you look at helping someone have a

585
00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:29,799
Speaker 1: better life. You can go down a psychiatric pathway, a

586
00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:34,680
Speaker 1: mental illness pathway, or you can go down to behavioral pathway.

587
00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:36,759
Speaker 1: And a lot of times you can behave your way

588
00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:41,400
Speaker 1: to success. You can manipulate your environment to success. And

589
00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:43,839
Speaker 1: then there are other times where you have a brain imbalance,

590
00:37:44,239 --> 00:37:51,880
Speaker 1: you neurotransmitters are disrupted, you need some biochemical replacement therapy

591
00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:55,800
Speaker 1: something of that nature. Um. But a lot of times

592
00:37:56,239 --> 00:38:01,120
Speaker 1: the solutions you've you've just got in a situation where

593
00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:06,160
Speaker 1: you're rewarding bad behavior or you're not requiring enough of yourself.

594
00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:10,440
Speaker 1: Sometimes the solutions are pretty simple when you step back

595
00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:13,520
Speaker 1: and think about them, but the problems can be very complex.

596
00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:17,239
Speaker 1: It must be challenging though at times, because you want

597
00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:21,400
Speaker 1: things to be interesting, you want them to be educational

598
00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:26,440
Speaker 1: and also entertaining. But do you ever worry that you're

599
00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:29,719
Speaker 1: being exploited? And that to me would be something that

600
00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:33,279
Speaker 1: would be in the back of your mind. I know that.

601
00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:36,120
Speaker 1: You know, we all get criticized when you're in the

602
00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:39,760
Speaker 1: public eye. But but you've been criticized for a couple

603
00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:42,840
Speaker 1: of things, like the having Shelley Duval on the show

604
00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:46,400
Speaker 1: when she was clearly having some serious mental issues, or

605
00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:52,040
Speaker 1: you know, are there other circumstances when you thought, maybe

606
00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:57,840
Speaker 1: I went over the line, maybe this wasn't the best

607
00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:01,440
Speaker 1: use of my skills, or maybe I did exploit this

608
00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:06,279
Speaker 1: individual more than I should have. You know, I could

609
00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:09,560
Speaker 1: tell you that there's I have never done a show

610
00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:16,239
Speaker 1: where I was insensitive to that or decided I'm just

611
00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:20,880
Speaker 1: going to do that. I don't care what. UM. I think.

612
00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:25,920
Speaker 1: There have been times when I've looked back and thought

613
00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:28,480
Speaker 1: there was there might have been a better way to

614
00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:33,680
Speaker 1: have done that, or there it might have been better

615
00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:39,520
Speaker 1: to not to have done that at all. So sure,

616
00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:46,239
Speaker 1: I mean, I've probably done eight thousand guests, and there

617
00:39:46,239 --> 00:39:51,840
Speaker 1: were probably a handful of them that, UM, if I

618
00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:53,520
Speaker 1: had it to do over again, I would have done

619
00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:57,600
Speaker 1: it in a different way or not done it at all. UM.

620
00:39:57,640 --> 00:40:05,920
Speaker 1: But we approached the these guest I think very thoughtfully,

621
00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:10,719
Speaker 1: and we have a real policy in the way we

622
00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:14,479
Speaker 1: approached it, like, for example, we won't book anybody that's

623
00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:20,040
Speaker 1: currently in therapy unless we contact their therapist explain what

624
00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:22,759
Speaker 1: the show is about, what we're gonna do, and get

625
00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:26,319
Speaker 1: their permission in writing, or we don't book. Not one

626
00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:29,880
Speaker 1: time in sixteen years. And there have been some therapists

627
00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:33,480
Speaker 1: that have said no, and we agreed because they said

628
00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:36,440
Speaker 1: there's something you don't know, and here it is and

629
00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:39,839
Speaker 1: said there's something you don't know we can't tell you. Yeah,

630
00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:42,399
Speaker 1: that's what I mean. There said there's there's some things

631
00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:46,279
Speaker 1: you are not aware of. But you know, I have

632
00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:50,160
Speaker 1: an advisory board on Dr Phil that's made up of

633
00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:55,280
Speaker 1: the top minds in psychology, psychiatry, sociology, medicine, theology, nursing.

634
00:40:55,680 --> 00:40:57,680
Speaker 1: A lot of these are editors of the PERI review

635
00:40:57,760 --> 00:41:01,120
Speaker 1: journals and stuff, and if I have a particularly complex case,

636
00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:04,520
Speaker 1: I'm able to send this out to them and get

637
00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:07,759
Speaker 1: their input and feedback. So we have a check in

638
00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:13,200
Speaker 1: balance system and so we really are very thoughtful about it.

639
00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:19,360
Speaker 1: Not always right, of course, um, but we're really mindful

640
00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:21,200
Speaker 1: of it and try and do a good job. But

641
00:41:21,239 --> 00:41:23,359
Speaker 1: are we perfect? Of course not. Was there is there

642
00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:26,960
Speaker 1: any one that sticks out in your head where you think, Gosh,

643
00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:35,279
Speaker 1: in hindsight, I regret that. You know, most of the

644
00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:42,160
Speaker 1: things that I regret are things I didn't do rather

645
00:41:42,239 --> 00:41:44,640
Speaker 1: than things we did. Like, for example, there was a

646
00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:52,239
Speaker 1: show recently where um, a really defiant team said she

647
00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:54,879
Speaker 1: was talking about something and she said, oh, that girl

648
00:41:55,000 --> 00:42:01,600
Speaker 1: is such a retard, and UM, that's just so offensive

649
00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:04,960
Speaker 1: to my sensibilities. I mean, that's like an F bomb

650
00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:09,239
Speaker 1: to me. And then something else happened, and I was

651
00:42:09,560 --> 00:42:13,200
Speaker 1: going to go back and call her on that and

652
00:42:13,239 --> 00:42:17,000
Speaker 1: make certain that people know I don't endorse that. It's

653
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:21,240
Speaker 1: not okay to say that something else happened. I got distracted.

654
00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:23,520
Speaker 1: Next thing, I know, the show is over and I

655
00:42:23,560 --> 00:42:27,560
Speaker 1: realized I let that go by. I didn't. I let

656
00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:30,759
Speaker 1: her get away with that and implicitly indorsed it. I

657
00:42:30,840 --> 00:42:34,560
Speaker 1: let that happen, And I hate that. I mean, I

658
00:42:34,640 --> 00:42:36,680
Speaker 1: really hate that. You couldn't have done it at the

659
00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:40,000
Speaker 1: end or done a little add on. I think we did.

660
00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:44,360
Speaker 1: I think we did afterwards. But you know, you should

661
00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:46,759
Speaker 1: have called her right there. I should have stopped what

662
00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:49,880
Speaker 1: was going on right there and said, don't given how

663
00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:52,840
Speaker 1: much care you put into the show, and as you

664
00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:57,440
Speaker 1: just described, Phil, it must really stick in your craw

665
00:42:57,840 --> 00:43:01,920
Speaker 1: when you get criticized by some of these folks. Like

666
00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:06,720
Speaker 1: a sociologist from Middlebury named Laurie Essek. She has said, quote,

667
00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:09,680
Speaker 1: Dr Phil is the modern day equivalent of the Victorian

668
00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:14,600
Speaker 1: freak show. Things are packaged as educational and medicinal, but

669
00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:17,439
Speaker 1: they are really just excuses to show off the most

670
00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:20,879
Speaker 1: vulnerable people in our society and make us feel better

671
00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:26,680
Speaker 1: about ourselves. A Victorian freak show. Yeah, I didn't know

672
00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:29,560
Speaker 1: Victorian's head freak show. I think what she's sort of

673
00:43:29,719 --> 00:43:34,319
Speaker 1: alluding to is sort of during the Victorian era when

674
00:43:34,600 --> 00:43:37,920
Speaker 1: there would be circuses with you know, the bearded lady

675
00:43:38,120 --> 00:43:40,359
Speaker 1: or you know that kind of thing. I mean, that's

676
00:43:40,400 --> 00:43:45,279
Speaker 1: sort of what I took it as. Yeah. Yeah, I'm

677
00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:49,279
Speaker 1: one of those people that doesn't feel the need to

678
00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:53,120
Speaker 1: be loved by strangers. And of course you want everybody

679
00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:55,640
Speaker 1: to love you, and well you want them to respect you.

680
00:43:55,760 --> 00:44:01,520
Speaker 1: And this wasn't very respectful. And oh, promise you if

681
00:44:02,840 --> 00:44:07,200
Speaker 1: that person came and spent thirty days with us here

682
00:44:08,719 --> 00:44:16,799
Speaker 1: and came home with me on Monday night and went

683
00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:21,640
Speaker 1: through the two hundred and fifty page book that I

684
00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:26,000
Speaker 1: have for Tuesday Morning show and looked at the cross

685
00:44:26,000 --> 00:44:32,480
Speaker 1: sectional history, the longitudinal history, the medical history, the career history,

686
00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:37,480
Speaker 1: the interviews of collaterals that we do to verify everything,

687
00:44:38,440 --> 00:44:41,520
Speaker 1: the research section on O C D. If that's what

688
00:44:41,640 --> 00:44:47,839
Speaker 1: the show is about, or anxiety, neurosis or whatever. UM

689
00:44:48,160 --> 00:44:57,320
Speaker 1: went through everything that we do to prepare for that show. Um,

690
00:44:57,360 --> 00:45:00,320
Speaker 1: I think she would be embarrassed to say what she's said.

691
00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:06,160
Speaker 1: And the difference is I am here Monday night. I

692
00:45:06,200 --> 00:45:10,040
Speaker 1: do go through that book, so I do know what

693
00:45:10,920 --> 00:45:15,520
Speaker 1: we do and how seriously we take it. Uh, So

694
00:45:15,640 --> 00:45:18,240
Speaker 1: I don't give my power away to somebody that doesn't

695
00:45:18,239 --> 00:45:21,720
Speaker 1: know what's going on. On a different topic, I'm curious

696
00:45:21,760 --> 00:45:24,120
Speaker 1: your reaction to this. For years, there was something called

697
00:45:24,320 --> 00:45:30,240
Speaker 1: the Goldwater Rule preventing psychiatrists and psychologists from diagnosing politicians

698
00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:33,400
Speaker 1: from afar. This started when a bunch of people in

699
00:45:33,480 --> 00:45:36,400
Speaker 1: that profession did this to Bury Goldwater when he was

700
00:45:36,480 --> 00:45:40,239
Speaker 1: running for president. And yet a number of very prominent,

701
00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:45,560
Speaker 1: respected psychiatrists and psychologists have not met with Donald Trump,

702
00:45:45,600 --> 00:45:50,000
Speaker 1: but they've said he's delusional, he's paranoid, he's narcissistic. I mean,

703
00:45:50,040 --> 00:45:52,800
Speaker 1: do you think these people should just shut up about

704
00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:56,000
Speaker 1: their concerns. Or do they, as they believe, have a

705
00:45:56,080 --> 00:45:59,279
Speaker 1: duty to warn the public about what they believe is

706
00:45:59,360 --> 00:46:07,200
Speaker 1: president dangerousness. Well, that's a compound question with about five

707
00:46:07,239 --> 00:46:10,600
Speaker 1: different parts, so let me take them one at a time. Uh,

708
00:46:10,640 --> 00:46:15,000
Speaker 1: they don't have a duty. The Tarasoft decision is very

709
00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:17,400
Speaker 1: specific about the duty, and in order for them to

710
00:46:17,440 --> 00:46:20,600
Speaker 1: have a duty, there has to be a specific threat

711
00:46:21,520 --> 00:46:27,000
Speaker 1: against an individual that they consider to be legitimate and

712
00:46:27,040 --> 00:46:29,439
Speaker 1: at that point they have a duty to warn either

713
00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:34,040
Speaker 1: the police or the individual. Um. And that Tarasoft decision

714
00:46:34,080 --> 00:46:37,239
Speaker 1: is a California decision, and that certainly is not the

715
00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:41,680
Speaker 1: case with Donald Trump. So there's no duty for them

716
00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:44,400
Speaker 1: to warn. Now they may feel like they have a

717
00:46:44,440 --> 00:46:48,120
Speaker 1: moral duty, but that's in violation of the canon of

718
00:46:48,160 --> 00:46:54,359
Speaker 1: ethics that they swore an oath too when they went

719
00:46:54,400 --> 00:46:59,920
Speaker 1: into practice. Um, you you cannot diagnose someone from a

720
00:47:00,040 --> 00:47:06,120
Speaker 1: far And if you took all of the transcripts from

721
00:47:06,239 --> 00:47:10,959
Speaker 1: my shows across sixteen years and you did a word

722
00:47:11,040 --> 00:47:16,880
Speaker 1: search on I cannot diagnose you here, it would probably

723
00:47:16,960 --> 00:47:20,920
Speaker 1: come up a thousand times. Because I want to make

724
00:47:20,920 --> 00:47:25,799
Speaker 1: it very clear, they haven't even met him, and I'm

725
00:47:25,840 --> 00:47:28,760
Speaker 1: sitting there with the person, and I say, I can't

726
00:47:28,760 --> 00:47:31,960
Speaker 1: diagnose you here. To do so, I would have to

727
00:47:32,000 --> 00:47:38,920
Speaker 1: do very elaborate interview, probably a set of psychometric tests, um,

728
00:47:39,000 --> 00:47:41,080
Speaker 1: maybe some lab work. I mean, there would be a

729
00:47:41,120 --> 00:47:42,640
Speaker 1: lot of things I would have to do that I

730
00:47:42,680 --> 00:47:45,800
Speaker 1: can't do here in forty two minutes and eighteen seconds

731
00:47:45,840 --> 00:47:51,600
Speaker 1: between commercial breaks. You can't do that. Now. They haven't

732
00:47:51,600 --> 00:47:57,680
Speaker 1: even met him. I have met him many times, um,

733
00:47:57,719 --> 00:48:01,919
Speaker 1: and I again, I can't diagnose him, m Um. What

734
00:48:01,960 --> 00:48:10,040
Speaker 1: they can say is, generally speaking, I observe behaviors that

735
00:48:10,239 --> 00:48:16,160
Speaker 1: caused me to be concerned about what he might be

736
00:48:16,239 --> 00:48:21,400
Speaker 1: capable of doing. They could say, I can't diagnose him,

737
00:48:21,440 --> 00:48:24,960
Speaker 1: but if I was going to, I can tell you

738
00:48:25,600 --> 00:48:31,040
Speaker 1: the short list of my considerations would include narcissistic personality,

739
00:48:31,200 --> 00:48:37,359
Speaker 1: impulse control disorder, UM, paranoia. You know, they might say

740
00:48:37,400 --> 00:48:40,200
Speaker 1: that these are things that would be on my short list.

741
00:48:40,280 --> 00:48:44,880
Speaker 1: Because the diagnostic process is a differential diagnostic process, you

742
00:48:44,960 --> 00:48:47,440
Speaker 1: start wide and go narrow, right. I think they kind

743
00:48:47,480 --> 00:48:49,799
Speaker 1: of have done that with those caveats. I don't think

744
00:48:49,840 --> 00:48:53,759
Speaker 1: they've said, without a doubt, he is a malignant narcissists.

745
00:48:53,800 --> 00:48:57,600
Speaker 1: I think they have use those caveats, but they have

746
00:48:57,840 --> 00:49:03,720
Speaker 1: said pretty much in certain terms some of them have Yeah,

747
00:49:03,760 --> 00:49:05,600
Speaker 1: but but do you so you you don't have a

748
00:49:05,640 --> 00:49:10,319
Speaker 1: problem if people say this behavior seems to me to

749
00:49:10,560 --> 00:49:15,719
Speaker 1: be consistent with blah blah blah. I think anybody can

750
00:49:15,800 --> 00:49:19,080
Speaker 1: opine about someone else's behavior. I think when you're a

751
00:49:19,080 --> 00:49:25,480
Speaker 1: professional that opining has it is going to be looked at,

752
00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:28,799
Speaker 1: uh differently. So I do think they need to make

753
00:49:28,880 --> 00:49:33,839
Speaker 1: those caveats. Um. I've been asked to I think he's

754
00:49:33,840 --> 00:49:39,160
Speaker 1: a narcissist, UM, and I've said, well, here are the

755
00:49:39,239 --> 00:49:44,040
Speaker 1: diagnostic criteria. Make up your own mind, you know, let

756
00:49:44,120 --> 00:49:47,759
Speaker 1: people make up their own mind. I mean, his behavior

757
00:49:48,160 --> 00:49:54,040
Speaker 1: is certainly out there for people to see, but I

758
00:49:54,080 --> 00:49:59,640
Speaker 1: don't think anyone really is in a position to know

759
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:04,440
Speaker 1: it all is going on with him. I think we

760
00:50:04,480 --> 00:50:08,920
Speaker 1: can say that his behavior is certainly a typical for

761
00:50:09,040 --> 00:50:13,200
Speaker 1: a statesman. Do you worry about his behavior? Philm not

762
00:50:13,280 --> 00:50:19,760
Speaker 1: only is this psychologist, but also as as an American? UM?

763
00:50:19,800 --> 00:50:23,680
Speaker 1: I did not in the beginning, And I'll tell you why.

764
00:50:24,080 --> 00:50:26,920
Speaker 1: I've always thought of the president as being kind of

765
00:50:26,920 --> 00:50:31,439
Speaker 1: a committee function. I mean, didn't you really think there's

766
00:50:31,520 --> 00:50:34,520
Speaker 1: checks and balances around a person like this, There's going

767
00:50:34,560 --> 00:50:37,480
Speaker 1: to be a chief of staff, and there's gonna be secretary,

768
00:50:37,719 --> 00:50:40,920
Speaker 1: there's gonna be a people around that if somebody starts

769
00:50:41,040 --> 00:50:47,240
Speaker 1: going a little rogue, they're gonna, okay, hey, come here. Um.

770
00:50:47,360 --> 00:50:51,719
Speaker 1: I don't have that feeling anymore because it seems like

771
00:50:52,760 --> 00:50:56,960
Speaker 1: they're rotating in and out of there so fast and

772
00:50:56,960 --> 00:51:00,640
Speaker 1: and are so subject to being fired that I don't have, uh,

773
00:51:00,800 --> 00:51:04,960
Speaker 1: the sense that there is a check and balanced system.

774
00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:09,560
Speaker 1: I don't mean executive, legislative, judicial, I mean just a

775
00:51:09,680 --> 00:51:14,440
Speaker 1: dam yeah, yeah, just a dynamic inside there that somebody

776
00:51:14,480 --> 00:51:18,680
Speaker 1: can say, let's pump the brake here and and think

777
00:51:18,680 --> 00:51:21,680
Speaker 1: about this, because I don't think. It doesn't appear to

778
00:51:21,760 --> 00:51:28,120
Speaker 1: me that there are people in that inner circle where

779
00:51:28,120 --> 00:51:31,480
Speaker 1: there's mutual respect. Maybe there is, and we don't hear

780
00:51:31,480 --> 00:51:34,960
Speaker 1: about them, but I don't have the same comfort level

781
00:51:35,000 --> 00:51:37,480
Speaker 1: that I did before. He's kind of gotten rid of

782
00:51:37,480 --> 00:51:40,920
Speaker 1: the guardrails, seems to me. The other thing I wanted

783
00:51:40,920 --> 00:51:43,680
Speaker 1: to talk to you about before we leave and end

784
00:51:43,760 --> 00:51:47,320
Speaker 1: up spending the night here is the me Too movement.

785
00:51:47,920 --> 00:51:53,400
Speaker 1: You know, you've watched this unfold and it's been a

786
00:51:53,480 --> 00:51:58,359
Speaker 1: real awakening for a lot of people about gender and

787
00:51:58,760 --> 00:52:04,839
Speaker 1: about sort of workplace equality, etcetera. And I would love

788
00:52:04,880 --> 00:52:09,400
Speaker 1: to get your views on this movement and if there's

789
00:52:09,560 --> 00:52:18,120
Speaker 1: anything about it that concerns you. Well, I hope that

790
00:52:18,400 --> 00:52:23,000
Speaker 1: people don't think that this is a Hollywood phenomenon, because

791
00:52:23,600 --> 00:52:31,280
Speaker 1: we've been doing shows for sixteen years about this power

792
00:52:31,320 --> 00:52:40,480
Speaker 1: abuse with people from Omaha and Spokane and Cleveland working

793
00:52:40,520 --> 00:52:44,440
Speaker 1: on assembly lines and in all kinds of jobs. And

794
00:52:44,960 --> 00:52:47,799
Speaker 1: you know, we always say rape, for example, is not

795
00:52:47,920 --> 00:52:53,000
Speaker 1: about sex, it's about power. And you know, it always

796
00:52:53,120 --> 00:53:00,480
Speaker 1: gets headlines when pretty people have problems, when famous people

797
00:53:00,719 --> 00:53:03,160
Speaker 1: have problems, and that's not a bad thing. I mean,

798
00:53:03,239 --> 00:53:07,840
Speaker 1: if a really famous person, a beautiful woman or a

799
00:53:07,920 --> 00:53:12,000
Speaker 1: handsome guy, contracts a disease or whatever, and it draws

800
00:53:12,040 --> 00:53:14,400
Speaker 1: a lot of attention to disease, like rock cuts in

801
00:53:14,480 --> 00:53:16,920
Speaker 1: with aids very I mean, that's that can be a

802
00:53:17,560 --> 00:53:20,640
Speaker 1: really good thing to move the needle of awareness. But

803
00:53:21,640 --> 00:53:26,400
Speaker 1: this is happening in school systems all over the country.

804
00:53:26,440 --> 00:53:29,680
Speaker 1: It's happening in factories all over the countries, and grocery

805
00:53:29,719 --> 00:53:34,359
Speaker 1: stores and everywhere that there's a hierarchy, these kinds of

806
00:53:34,400 --> 00:53:37,840
Speaker 1: things can happen. And I just hope that that awareness

807
00:53:38,120 --> 00:53:42,680
Speaker 1: doesn't limit itself to just being a media phenomenon in

808
00:53:43,239 --> 00:53:47,719
Speaker 1: high profile situations. I hope people realize that it's it's

809
00:53:47,760 --> 00:53:50,160
Speaker 1: more than that. What would you say to men who

810
00:53:50,480 --> 00:53:54,560
Speaker 1: seemed confused by this and to other people who are

811
00:53:54,640 --> 00:53:58,719
Speaker 1: worried that all bad behavior is being lumped into one

812
00:53:59,280 --> 00:54:04,279
Speaker 1: big bucket it? Yeah, you know, what I hear from

813
00:54:04,280 --> 00:54:09,879
Speaker 1: a lot of men is that they're taking extreme precaution

814
00:54:10,760 --> 00:54:15,040
Speaker 1: and saying I just simply would rather have a male

815
00:54:15,160 --> 00:54:20,719
Speaker 1: secretary or a male assistant or whatever. And I hope

816
00:54:20,719 --> 00:54:25,720
Speaker 1: that doesn't create a backlash that causes um that hurts

817
00:54:25,719 --> 00:54:29,040
Speaker 1: women ultimately exactly, that causes young women to be left

818
00:54:29,040 --> 00:54:33,239
Speaker 1: out of meetings, left out of dinners where deals might

819
00:54:33,360 --> 00:54:37,520
Speaker 1: be made if something is being negotiated sometimes at a

820
00:54:37,560 --> 00:54:41,640
Speaker 1: dinner meeting or something, or a position is being filled

821
00:54:41,960 --> 00:54:45,960
Speaker 1: and there there's a backlash and they're not considered for

822
00:54:46,000 --> 00:54:49,239
Speaker 1: that position because they're afraid of the exposure. I hear

823
00:54:49,360 --> 00:54:52,520
Speaker 1: that a lot too. Yeah, I hope that doesn't happen.

824
00:54:52,960 --> 00:54:56,319
Speaker 1: But I think the pendulum pendulum is always swing, and

825
00:54:56,480 --> 00:54:58,720
Speaker 1: they go to extreme and then they tend to settle

826
00:54:58,800 --> 00:55:01,239
Speaker 1: back in the middle. And I hope that happens. So

827
00:55:01,360 --> 00:55:03,640
Speaker 1: you've become and I'm not sure how many people know this,

828
00:55:03,800 --> 00:55:06,800
Speaker 1: like a one man entertainment empire. It's not just your show.

829
00:55:06,920 --> 00:55:10,879
Speaker 1: It's like MERV Griffin for crying out loud. You've got

830
00:55:10,880 --> 00:55:13,320
Speaker 1: to start up with your son called Doctors on Demand.

831
00:55:13,680 --> 00:55:16,600
Speaker 1: You've got the CBS drama Bull, which was just renewed

832
00:55:16,640 --> 00:55:18,840
Speaker 1: for a third season, and it's based on your history

833
00:55:19,280 --> 00:55:23,239
Speaker 1: as a trial consultant. You've got the Doctors on Daytime TV,

834
00:55:23,400 --> 00:55:26,000
Speaker 1: which you executive produced. Why why are you doing all

835
00:55:26,040 --> 00:55:33,160
Speaker 1: this stuff? Well, you know, I think, um, I find

836
00:55:33,200 --> 00:55:38,120
Speaker 1: this to be an intriguing, ummind to be an intriguing industry.

837
00:55:38,120 --> 00:55:40,360
Speaker 1: And if you know, if you're in, you're in. You know,

838
00:55:40,480 --> 00:55:44,240
Speaker 1: go do what you're doing. And um, you know, we'll

839
00:55:45,280 --> 00:55:49,399
Speaker 1: produce a thousand episodes of television this year. Uh. From

840
00:55:49,480 --> 00:55:52,880
Speaker 1: Stage twenty nine, we've got another show, Faced the Truth,

841
00:55:52,960 --> 00:55:58,440
Speaker 1: which starts in September, and we have another drama that

842
00:55:58,920 --> 00:56:03,160
Speaker 1: will go to air on CBS All Access very soon.

843
00:56:03,320 --> 00:56:09,040
Speaker 1: And a comic comedy we're working on with Showtime that'll

844
00:56:09,160 --> 00:56:12,560
Speaker 1: be going very soon. And Stage ty nine is your production.

845
00:56:13,200 --> 00:56:17,680
Speaker 1: What's what's a comedy on Showtime? The comedy is just terrific.

846
00:56:17,800 --> 00:56:21,880
Speaker 1: It's based on a true story. It's Women and People

847
00:56:21,920 --> 00:56:25,120
Speaker 1: of Color is the title of it. And it is

848
00:56:25,239 --> 00:56:28,200
Speaker 1: based on a true story of a of a woman

849
00:56:28,320 --> 00:56:33,160
Speaker 1: that was an African American housekeeper that actually, out of

850
00:56:33,160 --> 00:56:36,759
Speaker 1: the blue inherits more money than the people she worked for.

851
00:56:38,160 --> 00:56:43,760
Speaker 1: And so the whole dynamic changes and they start living

852
00:56:43,800 --> 00:56:47,760
Speaker 1: in each other's worlds and start to discover how different

853
00:56:47,800 --> 00:56:52,200
Speaker 1: things are. And it's a much more Norman Lear type

854
00:56:52,840 --> 00:56:55,240
Speaker 1: comedy that I think is going to be really, really great.

855
00:56:55,400 --> 00:56:57,840
Speaker 1: So one project stood out to me. You executive produced

856
00:56:57,920 --> 00:57:01,719
Speaker 1: daily Mail TV one devadd you to do that? It

857
00:57:01,719 --> 00:57:06,880
Speaker 1: sounds pretty tabloid, phil Uh. Daily Mail is the most

858
00:57:07,280 --> 00:57:11,000
Speaker 1: Um it's the most widely read English language website in

859
00:57:11,040 --> 00:57:15,680
Speaker 1: the world, right and they file nine hundred to a

860
00:57:15,760 --> 00:57:20,000
Speaker 1: thousand stories a day, what percentage on the Kardashians and

861
00:57:20,520 --> 00:57:23,880
Speaker 1: a fair amount of the Kardashians, But they do a

862
00:57:23,920 --> 00:57:29,080
Speaker 1: lot of really human interest stories, um. And they've got

863
00:57:29,160 --> 00:57:33,960
Speaker 1: so many correspondents around the world, and you have something

864
00:57:34,040 --> 00:57:39,800
Speaker 1: like this tragic shooting, Um, they really approached that from

865
00:57:40,000 --> 00:57:45,400
Speaker 1: the human angle, not just the ten thousand foot news reporting.

866
00:57:45,480 --> 00:57:48,360
Speaker 1: But they'll really be on the ground and talk to

867
00:57:48,400 --> 00:57:52,840
Speaker 1: the people, and they take a real human interest it's

868
00:57:52,880 --> 00:57:57,880
Speaker 1: not all celebrity and it's just really human interest stories.

869
00:57:58,840 --> 00:58:01,600
Speaker 1: And we've worked with them a lot over the years,

870
00:58:01,880 --> 00:58:07,040
Speaker 1: and so they really wanted to have a television UM

871
00:58:07,280 --> 00:58:11,360
Speaker 1: component to it, so they approached us, and UM we

872
00:58:11,400 --> 00:58:14,080
Speaker 1: approached them about that, and then they came back to

873
00:58:14,160 --> 00:58:16,080
Speaker 1: us and said, we want to do it with with

874
00:58:16,160 --> 00:58:19,680
Speaker 1: you guys, and so we started UM last year and

875
00:58:19,760 --> 00:58:22,280
Speaker 1: we shooted in New York out of w p i

876
00:58:22,600 --> 00:58:25,600
Speaker 1: X and Jesse Palmer's our host. And it's going really

877
00:58:25,600 --> 00:58:29,960
Speaker 1: really well. So to wrap things up, gosh, where do

878
00:58:30,040 --> 00:58:32,960
Speaker 1: we go from here? I guess by asking you where

879
00:58:33,000 --> 00:58:34,640
Speaker 1: do you go from here? Phil? I mean, do you

880
00:58:34,640 --> 00:58:38,600
Speaker 1: think you'll ever retire? Your sixty seven right? Yes? And

881
00:58:38,800 --> 00:58:43,000
Speaker 1: playing tennis every day on the tennis court right down

882
00:58:43,040 --> 00:58:46,560
Speaker 1: the path in the backyard. UM, you know, is there

883
00:58:46,560 --> 00:58:51,480
Speaker 1: anything you'd like to do that you haven't done yet? Uh?

884
00:58:51,520 --> 00:58:57,480
Speaker 1: You know, I don't know. It's probably something I don't

885
00:58:57,520 --> 00:59:02,000
Speaker 1: know about. But UM, I am so blessed in that

886
00:59:03,680 --> 00:59:06,080
Speaker 1: I have the opportunity to work with both of my

887
00:59:06,200 --> 00:59:13,240
Speaker 1: boys every day. UM. Jay is uh involved in television

888
00:59:13,280 --> 00:59:18,440
Speaker 1: and production and then he has a number of companies

889
00:59:19,360 --> 00:59:24,560
Speaker 1: Silicon Valley based, and um, he travels around a lot.

890
00:59:24,640 --> 00:59:26,640
Speaker 1: But I have an opportunity to work with him every day.

891
00:59:26,680 --> 00:59:30,920
Speaker 1: And my son Jordan, who's a musician, I work with

892
00:59:31,000 --> 00:59:33,400
Speaker 1: him in the music business. So I get to see

893
00:59:33,520 --> 00:59:36,480
Speaker 1: and or talk to them at least three or four

894
00:59:36,520 --> 00:59:39,120
Speaker 1: times a week. And I mean, how lucky is that?

895
00:59:40,000 --> 00:59:44,040
Speaker 1: And we laugh and have a great time, and I

896
00:59:44,120 --> 00:59:49,120
Speaker 1: love that. And I bet they teach you to mentoring.

897
00:59:49,280 --> 00:59:52,520
Speaker 1: Where can you tell you? They're the world is so different?

898
00:59:52,760 --> 00:59:56,040
Speaker 1: And there you know, Jay works with all these venture

899
00:59:56,080 --> 00:59:59,240
Speaker 1: capitalists in the Silicon Valley and and all in uh

900
00:59:59,640 --> 01:00:03,600
Speaker 1: George in this music business with Spotify and all these

901
01:00:03,600 --> 01:00:06,160
Speaker 1: things that I know nothing about, and he's really great

902
01:00:06,200 --> 01:00:10,280
Speaker 1: at I learned so much from them. But that's what

903
01:00:10,320 --> 01:00:12,880
Speaker 1: will keep me from ever retiring, is just having the

904
01:00:13,000 --> 01:00:15,200
Speaker 1: chance to work with both of them and have a

905
01:00:15,240 --> 01:00:19,480
Speaker 1: good time. And UH love having those grandkids over here.

906
01:00:19,520 --> 01:00:21,640
Speaker 1: They don't live far away, so we get to have them.

907
01:00:21,720 --> 01:00:24,880
Speaker 1: So I'm having a good time. So as long as

908
01:00:24,920 --> 01:00:27,240
Speaker 1: I'm healthy and feeling good, I'm gonna keep doing what

909
01:00:27,240 --> 01:00:29,400
Speaker 1: I'm doing. And if you have to offer one piece

910
01:00:29,400 --> 01:00:33,840
Speaker 1: of advice to our listeners. What would that be? You know,

911
01:00:34,280 --> 01:00:38,800
Speaker 1: I think we all have a personal truth, that's what

912
01:00:38,880 --> 01:00:42,240
Speaker 1: we really believe about ourselves when nobody's looking in no

913
01:00:42,280 --> 01:00:44,360
Speaker 1: ways listening. I'm gonna talking about the social mask. We

914
01:00:44,400 --> 01:00:46,360
Speaker 1: all put that on and go out there every day

915
01:00:46,360 --> 01:00:49,920
Speaker 1: and put our best foot forward. But we all have

916
01:00:50,000 --> 01:00:53,080
Speaker 1: a personal truth, and I think it's so important to

917
01:00:53,080 --> 01:00:56,000
Speaker 1: know what that is because we generate the results in

918
01:00:56,040 --> 01:00:59,280
Speaker 1: life we think we deserve. And I grew up with

919
01:00:59,320 --> 01:01:03,040
Speaker 1: a really damn each personal truth because my dad was

920
01:01:03,040 --> 01:01:06,640
Speaker 1: an alcoholic. We were poor, utilities were getting turned off,

921
01:01:06,840 --> 01:01:10,600
Speaker 1: and you know, violence in the home and you feel

922
01:01:10,680 --> 01:01:15,720
Speaker 1: like second class. And if you have a damaged personal truth,

923
01:01:16,160 --> 01:01:19,280
Speaker 1: you got to admit it and work on repairing it

924
01:01:19,480 --> 01:01:23,440
Speaker 1: because you want to generate good things in your life.

925
01:01:23,640 --> 01:01:27,440
Speaker 1: And days turn into weeks, and weeks turn into months

926
01:01:27,440 --> 01:01:30,120
Speaker 1: and months turn into years and you look back and say,

927
01:01:30,200 --> 01:01:32,440
Speaker 1: you know, why did I settle for less than I

928
01:01:32,480 --> 01:01:35,120
Speaker 1: really wanted? And I think people do that a lot.

929
01:01:35,680 --> 01:01:39,720
Speaker 1: So I really encourage people to really, if they've got

930
01:01:39,760 --> 01:01:43,440
Speaker 1: things about themselves that bother them, admit it, put it

931
01:01:43,480 --> 01:01:46,120
Speaker 1: on your to do list, fix it, and watch what

932
01:01:46,240 --> 01:01:49,280
Speaker 1: happens in your life when you do well. That's a

933
01:01:49,360 --> 01:01:57,040
Speaker 1: nice way to end. Dr Phil, Philip, Phil mc graw, Well, Katie,

934
01:01:57,080 --> 01:01:59,040
Speaker 1: we're gonna have to keep meeting like this. We've been

935
01:01:59,040 --> 01:02:01,360
Speaker 1: doing it for a long time. It's so fun. You're

936
01:02:01,600 --> 01:02:04,560
Speaker 1: you're such a pleasure to talk to and to listen to. Well,

937
01:02:04,600 --> 01:02:09,680
Speaker 1: thank you, guys, I appreciate it. A huge thank you

938
01:02:09,720 --> 01:02:12,720
Speaker 1: to Phil and Robin McGrath for hosting us in their

939
01:02:12,840 --> 01:02:16,440
Speaker 1: extraordinary home, and my usual thanks to the stitcher folks

940
01:02:16,440 --> 01:02:18,920
Speaker 1: who helped make this show happen. From soup to nuts,

941
01:02:19,160 --> 01:02:23,720
Speaker 1: Gianna Palmer that makes me hungry, Nora Richie and Jared O'Connell.

942
01:02:23,760 --> 01:02:26,600
Speaker 1: Also thanks to our dream team over at Kasey m

943
01:02:26,800 --> 01:02:30,760
Speaker 1: Katie Kirk Media, Alison Bresnick, Betha Mas and Emily Beena.

944
01:02:31,240 --> 01:02:33,320
Speaker 1: Katie and I are the EPs of this show. Mark

945
01:02:33,360 --> 01:02:36,960
Speaker 1: Phillips wrote our theme music. We cherish your ratings and

946
01:02:37,160 --> 01:02:39,800
Speaker 1: cherish them. Cherishes the word are you going to sing?

947
01:02:39,920 --> 01:02:43,600
Speaker 1: Ch cherishes the word, Oh, that wasn't the one. I

948
01:02:43,640 --> 01:02:48,000
Speaker 1: was thinking of the Madonna one. Cherish cherish and this

949
01:02:48,080 --> 01:02:51,880
Speaker 1: shows our age difference. I'm singing the association you're singing Madonna.

950
01:02:52,080 --> 01:02:56,040
Speaker 1: That's true. We're both old. We appreciate everything you do

951
01:02:56,120 --> 01:03:00,200
Speaker 1: over an Apple podcast, reviews, ratings, etcetera. Please please grab

952
01:03:00,280 --> 01:03:02,680
Speaker 1: to our show if you haven't already. You get every

953
01:03:02,720 --> 01:03:05,680
Speaker 1: episode as it comes out, and it helps us spread

954
01:03:05,680 --> 01:03:07,760
Speaker 1: the word. We love it when you come back week

955
01:03:07,880 --> 01:03:11,160
Speaker 1: after week. So that's all for us. We'll be back

956
01:03:11,200 --> 01:03:14,560
Speaker 1: next week with more from our trip to London. Cheerio,