1 00:00:00,680 --> 00:00:04,080 Speaker 1: So some hostile guy in the audience would get up 2 00:00:04,120 --> 00:00:08,039 Speaker 1: and say are you lesbians? And Flow would always say, 3 00:00:08,119 --> 00:00:09,360 Speaker 1: are you my alternative? 4 00:00:10,840 --> 00:00:16,079 Speaker 2: The feminist, trailblazer, journalist and founder of MS magazine, is 5 00:00:16,160 --> 00:00:20,360 Speaker 2: joined by her closest collaborator, Amy Richards to reveal the 6 00:00:20,440 --> 00:00:23,759 Speaker 2: stories that shaped her from her transformative moment at the 7 00:00:23,920 --> 00:00:26,120 Speaker 2: nineteen sixty three March on Washington. 8 00:00:27,240 --> 00:00:30,840 Speaker 1: She said, they only invite us to sing, But how 9 00:00:30,840 --> 00:00:32,280 Speaker 1: come we don't get to talk. 10 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:36,479 Speaker 2: Two decades of challenging the status quo. 11 00:00:36,080 --> 00:00:38,839 Speaker 1: Because I was engaged in trying not to get married, 12 00:00:38,920 --> 00:00:42,880 Speaker 1: so I needed to go very far away. 13 00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:46,199 Speaker 2: She's seen it all and she's not done speaking up. 14 00:00:46,400 --> 00:00:50,599 Speaker 3: We're at a time that doctor King's granddaughter and her 15 00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:53,360 Speaker 3: peers have progressively lost flights. 16 00:00:53,479 --> 00:00:55,600 Speaker 1: We can't let anybody take our hopes away. 17 00:00:56,240 --> 00:00:59,320 Speaker 2: Join host Martin Luther King, the Third Area, Waters King, 18 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:03,880 Speaker 2: Mark Kilburger, and Craig Kilberger for an unforgettable conversation on 19 00:01:03,920 --> 00:01:07,640 Speaker 2: the courage to choose your own path, the power of hope, 20 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:09,960 Speaker 2: and the truth that still need to be spoken. 21 00:01:10,160 --> 00:01:12,880 Speaker 4: Where you once said the truth will set you free, 22 00:01:12,880 --> 00:01:14,959 Speaker 4: but first it will piss you off. 23 00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:17,839 Speaker 1: When you say the phrase piss you off, I thank him. 24 00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:21,240 Speaker 5: Welcome to my legacy. Today, we're joined by a global 25 00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:24,920 Speaker 5: icon who didn't just witness history, she shaped it. As 26 00:01:24,959 --> 00:01:28,520 Speaker 5: a journalist, prolific writer, organizer, and co founder of MS magazine, 27 00:01:28,520 --> 00:01:31,880 Speaker 5: Gloria Steinem gave voice to millions of women who had 28 00:01:31,920 --> 00:01:35,000 Speaker 5: been told to stay silent. And as Gloria has shown 29 00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:38,080 Speaker 5: through her decades of movement building, no one creates lasting 30 00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:42,160 Speaker 5: change alone. Joining her is her close collaborator and friend 31 00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:45,600 Speaker 5: Amy Richards, a writer, producer and movement builder in her 32 00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:50,120 Speaker 5: own right, who is building on the feminist legacy Gloria ignited. Gloria, 33 00:01:50,120 --> 00:01:52,160 Speaker 5: if we may say a special thank you for welcoming 34 00:01:52,240 --> 00:01:54,840 Speaker 5: us into your home. If it would be all right, 35 00:01:54,880 --> 00:01:57,000 Speaker 5: we'd love to start at the beginning here my legacy. 36 00:01:57,040 --> 00:02:00,040 Speaker 5: We take you way back, and Gloria, you had a 37 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:04,560 Speaker 5: very unconventional childhood, not formally schooled until high school, traveling 38 00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:07,360 Speaker 5: on the road. You wrote about your mother and mental 39 00:02:07,400 --> 00:02:11,520 Speaker 5: health challenges, and you talked about how you are living 40 00:02:11,560 --> 00:02:13,720 Speaker 5: the life that she never had the chance to live. 41 00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:17,640 Speaker 1: I'm sure I'm not alone in being somebody who wishes 42 00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:21,040 Speaker 1: their parent could have lived the life she was born 43 00:02:21,080 --> 00:02:24,840 Speaker 1: to live. My mother did actually before I was born, 44 00:02:25,200 --> 00:02:30,000 Speaker 1: work as a journalist in Toledo at the Toledo Blade, 45 00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:33,320 Speaker 1: still a newspaper there, I think, and she loved it. 46 00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:36,760 Speaker 1: She loved it, but once she had my older sister, 47 00:02:37,639 --> 00:02:41,400 Speaker 1: and my older sister was about six, and my father 48 00:02:42,280 --> 00:02:47,600 Speaker 1: was also an unusual man. He had two points of pride. 49 00:02:47,639 --> 00:02:50,600 Speaker 1: He never wore a hat, which his generation was supposed 50 00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:52,880 Speaker 1: to do, and he never had a job. Those were 51 00:02:52,919 --> 00:02:57,240 Speaker 1: his two. So we were often traveling in a house 52 00:02:57,280 --> 00:02:59,920 Speaker 1: trailer in the winter time because he hated the winter, 53 00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:04,720 Speaker 1: to Florida or California and living in a trailer park 54 00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:09,080 Speaker 1: and so on. And that meant that I didn't go 55 00:03:09,160 --> 00:03:11,960 Speaker 1: to school very much. But I don't know. We all 56 00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:16,280 Speaker 1: have uniqueness in our childhoods in some way, and I 57 00:03:16,520 --> 00:03:22,680 Speaker 1: value things now that I didn't understand then that for instance, 58 00:03:23,080 --> 00:03:26,360 Speaker 1: the fact that the dance bands that my father had 59 00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:31,200 Speaker 1: were some were all white, some were all black, some 60 00:03:31,320 --> 00:03:35,920 Speaker 1: were both, but they were way less segregated than the 61 00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:40,120 Speaker 1: world around them, and they traveled around in a bus. 62 00:03:40,200 --> 00:03:46,120 Speaker 1: And also, since there were no restaurants in our rural area, 63 00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:50,360 Speaker 1: my mother cooked for them, so there were always, you know, 64 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:56,440 Speaker 1: interesting people around our dining room table, and who were 65 00:03:56,480 --> 00:03:59,400 Speaker 1: all alarmingly nice to me. I think they missed their 66 00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:02,920 Speaker 1: own children. So it was a good experience. 67 00:04:03,440 --> 00:04:06,080 Speaker 3: Do you think that that also shaped how you saw 68 00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:08,600 Speaker 3: the world, Cause when you think about during that time, 69 00:04:08,760 --> 00:04:11,800 Speaker 3: to have these bands of you know, all black or 70 00:04:11,840 --> 00:04:15,640 Speaker 3: all white, or even having dinner mm together around the 71 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:19,320 Speaker 3: table as a child, that was normal, which I think 72 00:04:19,400 --> 00:04:22,279 Speaker 3: gave you a beautiful view of the world at a 73 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:24,960 Speaker 3: time when that necessarily was not happening. 74 00:04:25,480 --> 00:04:28,480 Speaker 1: Oh, yes, no, you're right. I I was not aware 75 00:04:28,520 --> 00:04:31,160 Speaker 1: of it, but it was a blessing. 76 00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:31,760 Speaker 6: Yeah. 77 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:35,320 Speaker 1: After my parents separated because my father kept going to 78 00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:38,920 Speaker 1: California and so on, and my mother and I were 79 00:04:38,960 --> 00:04:44,000 Speaker 1: living in Toledo, we were living in a diverse neighborhood. 80 00:04:44,839 --> 00:04:47,880 Speaker 1: And once again I don't think we were conscious of 81 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:54,600 Speaker 1: how important that that really was, but partly because the 82 00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:59,159 Speaker 1: heroes of our neighborhood were the football team, right right, 83 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:06,200 Speaker 1: we definitely had a diverse experience, so much so that 84 00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:09,359 Speaker 1: I remember thinking it was odd when I went into 85 00:05:09,400 --> 00:05:12,359 Speaker 1: someplace that was all white, you know, whereas everybody you know, 86 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:15,440 Speaker 1: just as a kid, you know, you just asked that question. 87 00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:16,000 Speaker 7: Yes. 88 00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:19,800 Speaker 1: And then of course after college I went to live 89 00:05:19,839 --> 00:05:24,320 Speaker 1: in India for two years. So that was another lesson 90 00:05:24,760 --> 00:05:29,320 Speaker 1: why India, because I'd taken a course in college, a rare, 91 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:33,479 Speaker 1: very rare course about India because I was engaged in 92 00:05:33,560 --> 00:05:37,120 Speaker 1: trying not to get married, so I hadn't need I 93 00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:41,320 Speaker 1: needed to go very far away, because the Gandhian movement 94 00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:46,160 Speaker 1: and the civil rights movement were very intertwined and very 95 00:05:46,360 --> 00:05:51,680 Speaker 1: likely to be inspiring each other even from a distance. 96 00:05:52,400 --> 00:05:56,680 Speaker 7: Gloria, you were young journalists in nineteen sixty three on 97 00:05:56,760 --> 00:06:00,000 Speaker 7: August twenty eighth when Dad delivered the I have a dreamspace, 98 00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:04,400 Speaker 7: and you've said, or at least called that day transformative. 99 00:06:05,080 --> 00:06:11,400 Speaker 7: What changed for you standing in that crowd witnessing that 100 00:06:11,520 --> 00:06:12,800 Speaker 7: moment or those moments? 101 00:06:13,240 --> 00:06:16,840 Speaker 1: Washington was always a kind of integrated city, except it 102 00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:22,120 Speaker 1: wasn't really integrated. So to see it actually in the 103 00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:26,600 Speaker 1: form of the march, looking like the city itself was 104 00:06:26,839 --> 00:06:30,920 Speaker 1: just incredible. And I was standing next to a woman 105 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:33,919 Speaker 1: named Missus Green, Bless her heart. I don't know if 106 00:06:34,200 --> 00:06:38,560 Speaker 1: we never saw each other again, but Missus Green, a 107 00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:43,239 Speaker 1: black woman, and her daughter, and I could also see 108 00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:46,160 Speaker 1: through her eyes as well as through my own eyes, 109 00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:50,560 Speaker 1: how crucial and important this was how the capital of 110 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:53,720 Speaker 1: our country did not belong to everybody. And that was 111 00:06:53,760 --> 00:06:58,360 Speaker 1: the first truly representative crowd I'd ever seen. And you 112 00:06:58,400 --> 00:07:01,880 Speaker 1: could look back there from the Monument of video, it 113 00:07:01,920 --> 00:07:07,919 Speaker 1: was like acres and acres and acres of people, So 114 00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:12,480 Speaker 1: I you know it. It was a transforming moment to 115 00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:16,840 Speaker 1: see the country as we actually looked. And there had 116 00:07:16,880 --> 00:07:21,840 Speaker 1: been a lot of delegations that came from states uh 117 00:07:21,960 --> 00:07:26,160 Speaker 1: w W that were way more integrated than DC itself. 118 00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:29,320 Speaker 3: I love looking at the the video from the march 119 00:07:29,400 --> 00:07:32,600 Speaker 3: on Washington because if you look at it, you'll see 120 00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:35,080 Speaker 3: cause it was such a hot day and a long day, 121 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:40,680 Speaker 3: and right before Martin's father got up to speak, you 122 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:43,440 Speaker 3: could see us people had been cooling their feet kind 123 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:46,520 Speaker 3: of in the reflecting pond. People started putting their jackets 124 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:49,280 Speaker 3: back on MM and and the men, would you know, 125 00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:51,520 Speaker 3: tying up their ties like almost like they were getting 126 00:07:51,560 --> 00:07:53,840 Speaker 3: ready to go to church. And if you were in 127 00:07:53,920 --> 00:07:57,200 Speaker 3: the audience that day, could you feel when you heard 128 00:07:57,400 --> 00:07:59,960 Speaker 3: the I have a Dream speech, did you know something 129 00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:03,120 Speaker 3: historical interscendent had happened? 130 00:08:03,320 --> 00:08:07,880 Speaker 1: Absolutely? He was a genius of the repetitive theme, right, 131 00:08:08,320 --> 00:08:12,920 Speaker 1: I have a dream, So it was like poetry or music. 132 00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:16,880 Speaker 1: And I was close to the front, standing next to 133 00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:21,840 Speaker 1: Missus Green and her daughter. And Missus Green was wonderful 134 00:08:21,840 --> 00:08:24,840 Speaker 1: too because she was a critic. So she was saying, 135 00:08:25,160 --> 00:08:27,240 Speaker 1: how come there are no women on that platform? 136 00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:29,400 Speaker 3: Yes, I'm glad you bought it up. 137 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:31,000 Speaker 7: Right? 138 00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:34,720 Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, she said, they only invite us to sing, 139 00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:37,800 Speaker 1: But how come we don't get to talk? I thought, 140 00:08:38,679 --> 00:08:41,080 Speaker 1: good point. 141 00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:44,880 Speaker 4: You once said that Gloria is somebody that listens more 142 00:08:44,920 --> 00:08:48,280 Speaker 4: than she speaks. Could you take us back and share 143 00:08:48,360 --> 00:08:51,080 Speaker 4: us a moment or a story whereby you learn something 144 00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:54,240 Speaker 4: really important from Gloria, not through her words, but through 145 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:55,079 Speaker 4: her actions. 146 00:08:55,800 --> 00:08:59,080 Speaker 8: Well, I mean, there's so many things I've learned from Gloria, 147 00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:01,760 Speaker 8: and it is I would say, manner as much as 148 00:09:01,800 --> 00:09:05,320 Speaker 8: it is message and the biggest lesson. And there's many 149 00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:08,760 Speaker 8: scenes of this is not taking the bait, you know, 150 00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:12,240 Speaker 8: when somebody is sort of trying to instigate or say 151 00:09:12,520 --> 00:09:15,800 Speaker 8: or provoke or just get a rise out of you, 152 00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:18,960 Speaker 8: and just I mean, what Gloria does so brilliantly and 153 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:22,280 Speaker 8: this is a truely smart person who can do this 154 00:09:22,360 --> 00:09:24,760 Speaker 8: is often find the right quip or joke to turn 155 00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:28,240 Speaker 8: it around in the moment and you know, kind of 156 00:09:28,520 --> 00:09:31,120 Speaker 8: go with humor when there's nothing, when there's when there 157 00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:34,320 Speaker 8: when the other option would be to go with kind 158 00:09:34,320 --> 00:09:38,040 Speaker 8: of engaging. And Gloria tells this story about you know, 159 00:09:38,120 --> 00:09:41,200 Speaker 8: being away with her two good friends, woman Mankiller who 160 00:09:41,280 --> 00:09:43,200 Speaker 8: was the chief of the Cherokee Nation who's no longer 161 00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:47,120 Speaker 8: with us, and the novelist Alice Walker, and this kind 162 00:09:47,160 --> 00:09:49,480 Speaker 8: of you know, for lack of a better word, entitled 163 00:09:49,520 --> 00:09:52,559 Speaker 8: white male was at the table and Alice just took 164 00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:55,240 Speaker 8: her plate and got up and left the room. Wilma 165 00:09:55,400 --> 00:09:58,319 Speaker 8: sort of sat there patiently for a while and then left, 166 00:09:58,360 --> 00:10:00,480 Speaker 8: and Gloria sat there and just kept kind of like 167 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:03,880 Speaker 8: throw in more facts and statistics and charm him to 168 00:10:03,880 --> 00:10:05,680 Speaker 8: try to get to see And I always felt like 169 00:10:05,720 --> 00:10:07,800 Speaker 8: that story kind of summed it up. It was like, 170 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:10,400 Speaker 8: I'm gonna change your mind, you know, whether or not. 171 00:10:11,040 --> 00:10:12,960 Speaker 8: I don't know in that instance that it did, but 172 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:15,760 Speaker 8: I think in other instances. 173 00:10:15,160 --> 00:10:16,120 Speaker 1: That it did. 174 00:10:17,320 --> 00:10:19,160 Speaker 8: And I do think. You know, it's been amazing to 175 00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:21,640 Speaker 8: hear Gloria tell stories and then go back and read 176 00:10:21,720 --> 00:10:24,120 Speaker 8: articles or you know, about the March on Washington as 177 00:10:24,160 --> 00:10:26,720 Speaker 8: a case in point. You know, Gloria has also talked 178 00:10:26,760 --> 00:10:29,280 Speaker 8: about sitting up, you know, close to the you know, 179 00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:32,280 Speaker 8: Lincoln Memorial and because she had press credentials, she could 180 00:10:32,280 --> 00:10:35,840 Speaker 8: get a little bit closer than the average attendee and 181 00:10:35,920 --> 00:10:39,000 Speaker 8: remembers Mahalia Jackson saying, tell him about the dream. 182 00:10:39,800 --> 00:10:42,040 Speaker 1: And it's so often the emotion of it. It's not 183 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:46,720 Speaker 1: the fact of it. It's what you were feeling, you know, 184 00:10:46,800 --> 00:10:52,200 Speaker 1: when you were watching. And the kind of revelatory moment 185 00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:57,600 Speaker 1: of Missus Green next to me saying, where are the 186 00:10:57,640 --> 00:10:59,800 Speaker 1: women's speakers right? 187 00:11:00,679 --> 00:11:02,600 Speaker 8: And that was not necessarily a consciousness that you even 188 00:11:02,640 --> 00:11:04,800 Speaker 8: had at that time, you know, to say, I. 189 00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:07,719 Speaker 1: Wasn't questioning it because I thought, you know, I was 190 00:11:07,840 --> 00:11:11,079 Speaker 1: knocked out to be there in the first place. So 191 00:11:11,160 --> 00:11:13,359 Speaker 1: she was teaching me absolutely. 192 00:11:14,160 --> 00:11:16,559 Speaker 3: I love too that it shows too that we are 193 00:11:17,920 --> 00:11:22,040 Speaker 3: we're constant students. And I think that's what also makes 194 00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:25,240 Speaker 3: both of you all such brilliant storytellers, is that you're 195 00:11:25,240 --> 00:11:29,959 Speaker 3: listening to the stories and then translating that for your 196 00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:31,240 Speaker 3: readers and your viewers. 197 00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:37,040 Speaker 1: Well. Also, I've learned that our brains are organized on narrative. 198 00:11:38,280 --> 00:11:41,160 Speaker 1: So and there's a saying about it, tell me a 199 00:11:41,240 --> 00:11:45,160 Speaker 1: fact and a native American saying from Wilma, tell me 200 00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:47,680 Speaker 1: a fact and I'll forget. Tell me a story, and 201 00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:50,920 Speaker 1: I'll always remember, Like. 202 00:11:50,920 --> 00:11:54,199 Speaker 5: Follow and subscribe to the My Legacy podcast, and most importantly, 203 00:11:54,559 --> 00:11:57,200 Speaker 5: share this with someone who needs a reminder of their 204 00:11:57,240 --> 00:11:59,400 Speaker 5: strength today. We'll be back in a moment. 205 00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:04,360 Speaker 2: Now, back to my Legacy. 206 00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:06,920 Speaker 5: I just thought it was so powerful reflecting on the 207 00:12:06,920 --> 00:12:09,280 Speaker 5: Marshall Washington for a moment that to your point, we 208 00:12:09,360 --> 00:12:12,600 Speaker 5: all know you as this incredible icon, but even Gloria 209 00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:14,400 Speaker 5: Steinem had to become Gloria Steinem that you were in 210 00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:17,000 Speaker 5: the audience that day and it didn't immediately leap to 211 00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:20,400 Speaker 5: you the injustice of the gender parody or lack of 212 00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:23,640 Speaker 5: parody on that stage. I just think that's so powerful 213 00:12:23,640 --> 00:12:26,920 Speaker 5: for our listeners and viewers who may feel that they're 214 00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:30,520 Speaker 5: not yet at your stage as awareness or movement building, 215 00:12:30,559 --> 00:12:33,800 Speaker 5: that you had to go through your journey to become 216 00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:36,800 Speaker 5: the awareness, the icon, the change maker you are. 217 00:12:36,880 --> 00:12:40,360 Speaker 1: But as you were saying that, I was thinking that, actually, 218 00:12:40,440 --> 00:12:43,600 Speaker 1: I think it's way more common, you know. I mean, 219 00:12:44,679 --> 00:12:48,920 Speaker 1: I remember a little girl saying she was maybe six 220 00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:52,480 Speaker 1: or something, and she's saying to me, she I think 221 00:12:52,920 --> 00:12:55,880 Speaker 1: maybe she broke to me because she said, we girls 222 00:12:55,920 --> 00:13:00,599 Speaker 1: are angry as turnips, and because we never get the 223 00:13:00,640 --> 00:13:03,400 Speaker 1: good part of the playground. The boys get the good 224 00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:05,800 Speaker 1: part of the playground. We just get a little place 225 00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:08,600 Speaker 1: where we can play jacks over here. I thought, this 226 00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:11,440 Speaker 1: kid is going to be a revolutionary. Yes, I wonder 227 00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:12,280 Speaker 1: where she is now. 228 00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:15,440 Speaker 8: Yes, right, And I do think that's true. If I 229 00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:17,880 Speaker 8: don't think it's true exclusively for females, but I do 230 00:13:17,960 --> 00:13:22,280 Speaker 8: think women often come to injustice on behalf of other 231 00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:25,680 Speaker 8: people before they come to injustice on behalf of themselves lue. 232 00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:29,079 Speaker 8: And so I think it's not uncommon in a women's 233 00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:31,880 Speaker 8: narratives that you'll hear that that I got angry about 234 00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:34,720 Speaker 8: kids not being equal. I got angry about the football 235 00:13:34,760 --> 00:13:37,640 Speaker 8: team taking all the resources. And then you're like, oh wait, 236 00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:39,319 Speaker 8: I have to get angry about myself too. 237 00:13:40,160 --> 00:13:44,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, we may overdo empathy. 238 00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:49,160 Speaker 3: That whole thing about you know, being bold and unapologetic, 239 00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:52,679 Speaker 3: you know, and speaking up and taking space, taking spaces, 240 00:13:52,880 --> 00:13:56,640 Speaker 3: you know, just taking space as women and feeling confident 241 00:13:56,880 --> 00:13:57,360 Speaker 3: to do so. 242 00:13:57,880 --> 00:14:01,600 Speaker 1: No, and that was really the beginning of and the 243 00:14:01,640 --> 00:14:06,959 Speaker 1: continuing theme of the a very diverse women's movement. Which 244 00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:11,120 Speaker 1: is uh one sitting in a circle, M not in 245 00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:15,800 Speaker 1: a hierarchy? To do we look like the country? If not? 246 00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:16,240 Speaker 1: Why not? 247 00:14:18,280 --> 00:14:18,480 Speaker 7: Well? 248 00:14:18,559 --> 00:14:20,480 Speaker 3: I but when you talked about too, do we look 249 00:14:20,600 --> 00:14:25,520 Speaker 3: like a representative of the world. Because one of the 250 00:14:25,560 --> 00:14:29,680 Speaker 3: things that I loved growing up is Miss Magazine. And 251 00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:32,840 Speaker 3: it was one of the first magazines that I remember 252 00:14:33,400 --> 00:14:37,400 Speaker 3: as growing up that you could see all hues of 253 00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:40,680 Speaker 3: women MM at any given issue. It wasn't a you know, 254 00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:42,920 Speaker 3: like like if there was someone I'm not gonna name 255 00:14:42,920 --> 00:14:45,480 Speaker 3: a magazine that you know that was of color. On 256 00:14:45,520 --> 00:14:48,760 Speaker 3: other magazines, it became, you know, it was news in 257 00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:53,160 Speaker 3: and of itself, but at Miss, it was always eked 258 00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:55,920 Speaker 3: into the fiber of the the magazine. And so I 259 00:14:55,960 --> 00:14:59,240 Speaker 3: wanna go back to when you started Miss Magazine and 260 00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:02,280 Speaker 3: just the fact that you gave millions of women language 261 00:15:02,400 --> 00:15:04,960 Speaker 3: they hadn't at that point been allowed to say out loud. 262 00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:07,720 Speaker 3: What would you say? Was the boldest thing that you 263 00:15:07,760 --> 00:15:11,400 Speaker 3: did in those early years of the magazine that scared you, 264 00:15:12,120 --> 00:15:13,960 Speaker 3: but you did it anyway. Because that's one of the 265 00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:16,800 Speaker 3: things that we teach our daughter is that it's not 266 00:15:17,280 --> 00:15:19,920 Speaker 3: feeling fear, but courage is when you feel fear and 267 00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:20,760 Speaker 3: do it anyway. 268 00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:23,520 Speaker 1: When you say that, I think of something that maybe 269 00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:28,680 Speaker 1: you don't have in mind, which is advertising. And because 270 00:15:28,760 --> 00:15:32,960 Speaker 1: women's magazines were of course dependent for money and profit 271 00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:38,800 Speaker 1: and everything on advertising, and because advertising was pretty segregated 272 00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:43,240 Speaker 1: by gender too, because the car makers were not convinced 273 00:15:43,280 --> 00:15:47,520 Speaker 1: that women drove cars, and they even thought it devalued 274 00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:50,400 Speaker 1: cars if women were shown driving them. I mean, there 275 00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:54,920 Speaker 1: were all kinds of crazy reasons that we couldn't get 276 00:15:54,960 --> 00:15:59,080 Speaker 1: the advertising we should have got. And because I'd been 277 00:15:59,120 --> 00:16:01,680 Speaker 1: working for es work, I realized when a minute they 278 00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:06,200 Speaker 1: got this advertise, we knew what's wrong with us, and 279 00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:09,960 Speaker 1: we actually had to become a foundation so we could 280 00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:11,640 Speaker 1: raise money in a different way. 281 00:16:11,920 --> 00:16:15,120 Speaker 3: Oh wow, So that's how you got crossed that by 282 00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:18,720 Speaker 3: starting your own foundation that was later in existence so 283 00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:20,840 Speaker 3: that you would have to be as a dependent. 284 00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:23,360 Speaker 1: The magazine was owned by a foundation. 285 00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:27,000 Speaker 3: Yes, right now, Amy, was there a moment that Glory 286 00:16:27,160 --> 00:16:29,440 Speaker 3: encouraged you to take a risk that you wouldn't have 287 00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:30,400 Speaker 3: taken on your own. 288 00:16:30,520 --> 00:16:33,080 Speaker 8: Well, I don't think I wanted to be a writer necessarily. 289 00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:36,480 Speaker 8: I was an observer and I was an activist, and 290 00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:39,280 Speaker 8: I created an organization called third Wave, and through that 291 00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:42,880 Speaker 8: I was collecting a lot of stories of primarily young 292 00:16:42,920 --> 00:16:45,880 Speaker 8: people doing amazing things. We did a cross country voter 293 00:16:45,960 --> 00:16:48,800 Speaker 8: registration drive called Freedom Summer ninety two, very much inspired 294 00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:51,800 Speaker 8: by the civil rights marches that had also taken place 295 00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:56,080 Speaker 8: in the South. And you know, stories are compelling, and 296 00:16:56,120 --> 00:16:57,840 Speaker 8: I'd be like, somebody has to write about this. I 297 00:16:57,880 --> 00:16:59,680 Speaker 8: had a lot of journalist friends, and I'd say, you 298 00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:02,360 Speaker 8: should write about this person or this organization, and go 299 00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:04,240 Speaker 8: I was like, you should write about it. And so, 300 00:17:04,359 --> 00:17:06,399 Speaker 8: because I was not somebody who thought of myself as 301 00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:08,360 Speaker 8: a writer, it took him while. But then I did 302 00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:10,840 Speaker 8: jump in and started writing articles and you know, eventually 303 00:17:10,840 --> 00:17:13,720 Speaker 8: wrote books and so taking goodness that you did taking 304 00:17:13,720 --> 00:17:14,399 Speaker 8: that leap, thank you. 305 00:17:15,240 --> 00:17:17,600 Speaker 6: But for so many baby boomers you were and gen 306 00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:20,600 Speaker 6: X women, you were the face of feminism and you 307 00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:24,520 Speaker 6: inspired millions upon tens of millions of people wanted to 308 00:17:24,520 --> 00:17:26,679 Speaker 6: ask who or what inspired you? 309 00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:29,439 Speaker 1: Along the way, I was inspired not to be the 310 00:17:29,440 --> 00:17:34,080 Speaker 1: face of feminism because I'm not. I mean, you know, 311 00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:38,640 Speaker 1: we're a big, diverse country. So it helped to give 312 00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:43,160 Speaker 1: me the courage to speak and never by myself. Dorothy 313 00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:48,440 Speaker 1: Pittman Hughes, who was a pioneer of the first childcare center. Here. 314 00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:54,160 Speaker 1: Flow Kennedy, the wonderful, outrageous civil rights lawyer, Flow Kennedy, 315 00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:57,720 Speaker 1: And you know, it's a whole series of people and 316 00:17:57,760 --> 00:18:03,240 Speaker 1: we on purpose spoke together. And there were certain lucky 317 00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:06,480 Speaker 1: things that I lived in India for two years after 318 00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:10,439 Speaker 1: I graduated from what was not a segregated college, but 319 00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:15,679 Speaker 1: was alarmingly white. So I I you know, I was 320 00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:21,520 Speaker 1: in a country that was very diverse and looked way 321 00:18:21,560 --> 00:18:23,880 Speaker 1: more like the world, and was trying to look even 322 00:18:23,920 --> 00:18:28,280 Speaker 1: more like the world. That was just lucky, and that 323 00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:31,760 Speaker 1: I could freelance, you know, as as as a writer 324 00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:35,639 Speaker 1: and not always make a great living, but always make 325 00:18:35,680 --> 00:18:37,199 Speaker 1: a living, which is really lucky. 326 00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:41,280 Speaker 3: We're at the point in time in our history, so 327 00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:44,919 Speaker 3: you know, we talked about the March on Washington. If 328 00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:49,080 Speaker 3: there is nothing else that anyone can remember from the speech, 329 00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:51,240 Speaker 3: it is you know when Doctor King talked about his 330 00:18:51,320 --> 00:18:55,080 Speaker 3: four little children, well he has he had four children. 331 00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:58,879 Speaker 3: He only has one one grandchild, our our daughter Yolanda. 332 00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:04,480 Speaker 3: And we're we're at a time that Doctor King's granddaughter 333 00:19:04,840 --> 00:19:09,960 Speaker 3: and her peers have progressively lost rights. Yeah, the first generation, 334 00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:13,520 Speaker 3: particularly Black women, but all women, but that have lost 335 00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:15,959 Speaker 3: rights since they were born rather than gain them. That 336 00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:19,960 Speaker 3: hasn't happened since the end of reconstruction in the beginning 337 00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:23,360 Speaker 3: of the passage of black codes. As two women who 338 00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:28,280 Speaker 3: have been on the forefront of women's equalities and and 339 00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:30,360 Speaker 3: women's rights, are you all hopeful? 340 00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:32,840 Speaker 1: Well, first of all, I would just like to say, 341 00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:36,840 Speaker 1: we can't let anybody take our hopes away, because hope 342 00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:40,520 Speaker 1: is in itself a f a form of planning. We 343 00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:45,199 Speaker 1: can try to create in the groups and organizations and 344 00:19:45,320 --> 00:19:49,639 Speaker 1: living rooms, you know where we are groups that do 345 00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:53,440 Speaker 1: look like the country. And if they don't ask ourselves, 346 00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:54,680 Speaker 1: how come why not? 347 00:19:54,960 --> 00:19:55,159 Speaker 9: You know? 348 00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:59,159 Speaker 1: What are what are we missing here? We can find 349 00:19:59,280 --> 00:20:02,480 Speaker 1: different paths to that. I mean Wilma Mankiller, the chief 350 00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:06,640 Speaker 1: of the Cherokee nation, for instance, was a great as 351 00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:09,760 Speaker 1: you know, as she said, the only good thing Europeans 352 00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:17,879 Speaker 1: brought was the horse. Was always a great force for 353 00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:23,040 Speaker 1: representativeness and also just selfishness. I mean, we do not 354 00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:29,000 Speaker 1: learn from sameness. We learn from difference. Diversity is a gift, 355 00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:32,880 Speaker 1: it's not. It drives me crazy that it's viewed as 356 00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:37,680 Speaker 1: an obligation or something painful. It's totally a gift. 357 00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:39,639 Speaker 8: And yet living in a more diverse world is what 358 00:20:39,760 --> 00:20:42,639 Speaker 8: is exactly threatening to some people. Yes, right now, that 359 00:20:42,760 --> 00:20:45,359 Speaker 8: makes it harder, but I do feel just to answer that, 360 00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:50,320 Speaker 8: I do feel optimistic that there is a lot of 361 00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:53,000 Speaker 8: change that can still happen in the world. And I 362 00:20:53,040 --> 00:20:55,160 Speaker 8: was at an event two nights in a row, and 363 00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:57,480 Speaker 8: I did look around and I felt like I was 364 00:20:57,520 --> 00:21:02,199 Speaker 8: seeing the benefits of twenty sixteen. Meaning I think that 365 00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:04,960 Speaker 8: what happened to the twenty sixteen election was that somebody 366 00:21:05,040 --> 00:21:07,800 Speaker 8: got elected that nobody thought would get elected, and a 367 00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:09,920 Speaker 8: lot of people thought, oh my gosh, if that person 368 00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:12,639 Speaker 8: can do it, I can do it. And there's obviously 369 00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:14,520 Speaker 8: a lot of other negative responses that came, but I 370 00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:16,120 Speaker 8: thought that that was a positive one. And I looked 371 00:21:16,119 --> 00:21:18,720 Speaker 8: around this room. And even when I graduated from college 372 00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:20,960 Speaker 8: in nineteen ninety two, and a lot of my peers 373 00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:25,000 Speaker 8: felt like in order to be respected, in order to 374 00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:28,040 Speaker 8: be successful, you had to be exceptional. And I don't 375 00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:30,320 Speaker 8: want to undermine the accomplishments of women today, but I 376 00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:32,280 Speaker 8: think that now there is a narrative that you can 377 00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:35,360 Speaker 8: be good enough and be successful. And I think that 378 00:21:35,359 --> 00:21:39,680 Speaker 8: that makes the opportunities so much more democratic and available 379 00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:42,000 Speaker 8: to a lot more people. I mean, Melinda Gates was 380 00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:44,080 Speaker 8: telling the story that you know, she knew that she 381 00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:46,040 Speaker 8: was going after a certain level of success when she 382 00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:47,560 Speaker 8: was in high school and she was mad at her 383 00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:50,199 Speaker 8: parents for not sending her to a certain high school 384 00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:54,440 Speaker 8: in Dallas, where she was from, and realizing that the 385 00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:58,200 Speaker 8: only other than workaround was for her to become valedictorian, 386 00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:00,199 Speaker 8: because that was the way to kind of sign or 387 00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:02,840 Speaker 8: you know, to kind of signal that she was exceptional. 388 00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:05,119 Speaker 8: And I do think that, yes, it's still great for 389 00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:07,960 Speaker 8: people of those ambitions to be that, but I think 390 00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:11,240 Speaker 8: you're still gonna be rewarded and appreciated even if you're 391 00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:13,400 Speaker 8: not valedictorian for as a woman, you know, I think 392 00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:15,000 Speaker 8: that there was a moment where that's what you had 393 00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:17,000 Speaker 8: to do. And so I'm hopeful that there are just 394 00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:20,560 Speaker 8: more people doing more things and that that's gonna it's 395 00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:21,359 Speaker 8: gonna carry us. 396 00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:24,520 Speaker 3: One thing I have seen with younger women over the 397 00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:26,879 Speaker 3: last couple of years in particular, is even more of 398 00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:31,439 Speaker 3: a resoluteness. I think that you know that there was 399 00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:34,160 Speaker 3: as some of the older women were like, oh my goodness, 400 00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:37,960 Speaker 3: what's going there seemed to be this new fire and 401 00:22:38,359 --> 00:22:44,080 Speaker 3: urgency and resoluteness that I've seen with with younger women, 402 00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:45,360 Speaker 3: and that that's. 403 00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:46,520 Speaker 5: What gives me hope. 404 00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:50,040 Speaker 3: MM. I think that we're in We're in great hands with. 405 00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:53,800 Speaker 1: What where are you seeing at especially in schools or 406 00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:55,920 Speaker 1: in work? Through your daughter? 407 00:22:56,440 --> 00:23:00,600 Speaker 3: Definitely through our daughter, through the conversations that that we 408 00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:07,280 Speaker 3: had because one of the hardest calls that I had 409 00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:11,360 Speaker 3: to make after the election, and not because of Kamala 410 00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:16,280 Speaker 3: Harris not winning, but because of having to talk to 411 00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:21,040 Speaker 3: my daughter in that same conversation that's that black women 412 00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:26,320 Speaker 3: have had so many times with our daughters that you 413 00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:27,280 Speaker 3: are good enough. 414 00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:27,640 Speaker 1: MM. 415 00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:31,800 Speaker 3: You know that I'm sorry that maybe the world is 416 00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:35,359 Speaker 3: not ready for, you know, to see your brilliance in 417 00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:38,080 Speaker 3: your light. And so I think I was approaching it 418 00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:40,800 Speaker 3: kind of from that that battle had like, oh, you know, 419 00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:45,200 Speaker 3: but what I've seen even within that conversation, our daughter 420 00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:49,000 Speaker 3: approached it from oh, we're going to Yah, you don't 421 00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:52,919 Speaker 3: have to apologize to us, because we are going to 422 00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:56,919 Speaker 3: absolutely continue the march and finish what was started. Like 423 00:23:57,000 --> 00:24:00,080 Speaker 3: this has made us not give up, This has n 424 00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:02,840 Speaker 3: made us even more I've seen more girls talk about 425 00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:06,600 Speaker 3: changing their major m even in in college, and they 426 00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:11,240 Speaker 3: want to major more in in t in storytelling, in law, 427 00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:14,240 Speaker 3: to understand the law, because as our daughter says, you 428 00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:16,720 Speaker 3: have to understand the law so you can change the law. 429 00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:20,560 Speaker 3: So the ways in which they're preparing themselves, the ways 430 00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:24,160 Speaker 3: in which they're organizing. As we're talking to activists, young 431 00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:28,399 Speaker 3: girl activists around the nation, they seem more focused and 432 00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:33,080 Speaker 3: ready to organize and to really show how bold and 433 00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:35,560 Speaker 3: and unapologetic and they're ready to take up space. 434 00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:38,080 Speaker 1: Mm okay, I'm ready to vote for your daughter. 435 00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:42,840 Speaker 3: And that's what these young women are are like, you 436 00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:45,480 Speaker 3: know now they're and I people think a lot about 437 00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:48,760 Speaker 3: Martin's father when they when they see her and I 438 00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:52,560 Speaker 3: see her grandmother. You when you talk earlier about the 439 00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:56,040 Speaker 3: fact of you know, we're we kind of live out 440 00:24:56,119 --> 00:25:02,480 Speaker 3: sometimes our parents wishes. I seem as glorious as her grandmother, 441 00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:04,919 Speaker 3: Kreta Scott King wasn't as much as she did. I 442 00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:08,919 Speaker 3: even I see her in her granddaughter that I'm even gonna, 443 00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:12,919 Speaker 3: you know, even more so or continue to stand up 444 00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:16,000 Speaker 3: and to stand out and keep moving it forward. 445 00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:20,720 Speaker 1: But also I'm just thinking while you're saying that of 446 00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:27,080 Speaker 1: Karta and I sitting in the LaGuardia Airport talking, what 447 00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:30,879 Speaker 1: she wanted to do was go dancing. Yes, so we 448 00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:34,199 Speaker 1: have to your daughter has to if she wants to 449 00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:35,120 Speaker 1: also go down. 450 00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:37,439 Speaker 3: Trust me, she she does. 451 00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:37,840 Speaker 5: She does. 452 00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:43,200 Speaker 8: And Credit spoke at the seventy seven Houston Conference, the 453 00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:47,040 Speaker 8: nineteen seventy seven Houston Conference and kind of brought the 454 00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:47,560 Speaker 8: house down. 455 00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:50,679 Speaker 3: And I love too, though, because that is important. And 456 00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:53,240 Speaker 3: that's one of the things that we hope to give you, Alanda, 457 00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:56,560 Speaker 3: the freedom also to have the fun that goes back 458 00:25:56,600 --> 00:26:01,119 Speaker 3: to your point of living. Our parents' lives, you know, 459 00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:04,040 Speaker 3: in full glory all that they thought that they couldn't do. 460 00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:06,240 Speaker 3: So yes, we hope for her a lot of dancing 461 00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:07,959 Speaker 3: and trust me, she gets it in. 462 00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:10,200 Speaker 1: She gets it in. Now. 463 00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:14,840 Speaker 3: Now, you've spoken openly about getting abortion when it was illegal, 464 00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:17,480 Speaker 3: and you said that it didn't define you, but it 465 00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:20,560 Speaker 3: did shape you. What's one thing that you wish people 466 00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:23,600 Speaker 3: understood better about that part of your story? 467 00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:27,840 Speaker 1: Well as Flow Kennedy always said, if men could get pregnant, 468 00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:34,360 Speaker 1: abortion would be a sacrament. So the beginning of democracy 469 00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:37,520 Speaker 1: is that we get to make decisions over our own 470 00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:42,399 Speaker 1: physical selves. And you know, I D I don't think 471 00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:48,080 Speaker 1: that that's the projection really either, because men assume it 472 00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:52,080 Speaker 1: and women still don't have it. I'm not sure, but 473 00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:54,840 Speaker 1: I I I do think we need to emphasize it 474 00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:58,560 Speaker 1: more that we get to make decisions over our own bodies. 475 00:26:58,760 --> 00:26:58,879 Speaker 3: Well. 476 00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:02,320 Speaker 8: And the doctor who performed your abortion, you know, made 477 00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:05,240 Speaker 8: you promise two things. It was that you wouldn't reveal 478 00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:05,720 Speaker 8: his name. 479 00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:09,399 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and then I and then I would do 480 00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:12,240 Speaker 1: what I wanted to do with my life. How great 481 00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:15,200 Speaker 1: is that? I think that commitment is. 482 00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:19,920 Speaker 3: That also then helped shape shape you and shape you 483 00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:22,040 Speaker 3: at getting you know through that too? 484 00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:22,920 Speaker 1: Like to have that? 485 00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:24,920 Speaker 3: Can you think about so many. 486 00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:29,040 Speaker 1: Women don't know? I dedicated a book to him. Yeah, 487 00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:33,159 Speaker 1: probably long after he was able to appreciate it. 488 00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:39,400 Speaker 9: But anyway, like follow and subscribe to my Legacy podcast 489 00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:42,919 Speaker 9: and most importantly share this with someone who needs their 490 00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:43,560 Speaker 9: reminder of. 491 00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:46,520 Speaker 3: Their strength today back in a moment. 492 00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:52,119 Speaker 4: Now back to my legacy. You once said the truth 493 00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:55,240 Speaker 4: will set you free, but first it will piss you off. 494 00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:59,080 Speaker 4: I love that quote. What's the truth that absolutely pissed 495 00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:00,879 Speaker 4: you off? And how do that inspire you? 496 00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:03,720 Speaker 1: Well? When you say the phrase piss you off. I 497 00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:04,399 Speaker 1: think of Trump. 498 00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:09,199 Speaker 4: How does that aspire you? 499 00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:14,320 Speaker 1: Well, I mean getting rid of him inspires me, you know. 500 00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:17,960 Speaker 1: I mean we're in Manhattan where like ninety six percent 501 00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:22,119 Speaker 1: of people are against him because we know, right, And 502 00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:26,160 Speaker 1: I think that's really important for reasons that are not 503 00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:34,920 Speaker 1: necessarily part of our press or you know stories. I mean, 504 00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:38,520 Speaker 1: we are we either have just become or on the 505 00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:43,360 Speaker 1: verge of becoming a majority people of color country. And 506 00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:46,600 Speaker 1: I think that those folks who say you will now 507 00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:51,080 Speaker 1: replace us are thinking of that, and that is awful, 508 00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:54,320 Speaker 1: you know. I mean that's crazy. I mean, that's anti democratic, 509 00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:59,520 Speaker 1: it's anti everything we hope for. But it doesn't get 510 00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:03,080 Speaker 1: named enough, including about Trump. 511 00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:05,040 Speaker 5: I mean, if I could pull you into this conversation, 512 00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:08,640 Speaker 5: because when I look at Gloria's legacy, I think of 513 00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:13,640 Speaker 5: how much work that you that she has spent engaging 514 00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:16,360 Speaker 5: the next generation, including literally co founding take our Daughters 515 00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:19,160 Speaker 5: to work. You know, that incredible movement. And Amy, I 516 00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:24,600 Speaker 5: look at you reaching across generations, continuing that movement, continuing 517 00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:28,640 Speaker 5: to redefine it and reinvent it constantly. And I'm curious, 518 00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:32,400 Speaker 5: from your point of view, Amy, why does Gloria's message 519 00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:37,320 Speaker 5: still so deeply resonate with the current generation, even though 520 00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:38,760 Speaker 5: this is now spanning decades. 521 00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:41,400 Speaker 8: I mean, I think that what Gloria says has had 522 00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:44,600 Speaker 8: profound impact, and what she writes has that profound impact. 523 00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:47,600 Speaker 8: And there's very few people who have one liners like 524 00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:52,560 Speaker 8: Gloria does, and you know, is infinitely quotable. But I 525 00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:55,360 Speaker 8: think that the most important example that Gloria has given 526 00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:59,320 Speaker 8: across generations is just her example of how she lives 527 00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:03,040 Speaker 8: her lives. I mean, living independently, you know, as a 528 00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:06,800 Speaker 8: single woman, making her own income, getting up, you know, 529 00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:10,120 Speaker 8: even when it was terrifying, and speaking in public, and 530 00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:12,800 Speaker 8: you know, it was more what she was doing that 531 00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:16,760 Speaker 8: I think is and in her generation that was bolder 532 00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:21,000 Speaker 8: and braver because it was less popular of a choice 533 00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:24,200 Speaker 8: and therefore less accessible of a choice, and a lot 534 00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:26,480 Speaker 8: of women who thought, oh if only I could do that. 535 00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:30,400 Speaker 8: And I think, you know, my generation, younger generations definitely 536 00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:32,720 Speaker 8: have more examples of how that is possible. But it's 537 00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:37,320 Speaker 8: still a threatening choice to make, the unconventional choice, and 538 00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:40,880 Speaker 8: it also is still a financial reality that not many 539 00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:44,200 Speaker 8: women can afford to live in. I mean, most women 540 00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:47,600 Speaker 8: I know who have some level of financial success, married 541 00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:52,640 Speaker 8: it or inherited it. So there's still few examples of 542 00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:55,840 Speaker 8: women being able to live truly independent life. So I 543 00:30:55,880 --> 00:31:00,600 Speaker 8: think it's just that example that is one that resonates 544 00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:01,640 Speaker 8: across generations. 545 00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:04,760 Speaker 1: As you're saying that, I'm thinking about the more people 546 00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:07,560 Speaker 1: would do it if they understood the real life rewards. 547 00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:11,360 Speaker 1: Maybe we should write about it, you know, because people 548 00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:13,880 Speaker 1: stop you in the street, you know, and say thank 549 00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:15,120 Speaker 1: you for this or that. 550 00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:17,560 Speaker 8: I mean, it's a simplification to say this, but I 551 00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:22,640 Speaker 8: think Gloria made being different okay, And I think that 552 00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:26,960 Speaker 8: a lot of other people either we're yeah and the 553 00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:28,800 Speaker 8: only other person and you're gonna laugh when. 554 00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:29,080 Speaker 1: I give us. 555 00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:32,240 Speaker 8: Example that I've seen that has a similar kind of 556 00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:35,120 Speaker 8: on the street reaction in the airport reaction is the 557 00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:39,800 Speaker 8: skateboarder Tony Hawk, And it's because because skateboarding was this 558 00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:44,080 Speaker 8: weird thing that loser kids did, and he made it like, no, 559 00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:45,920 Speaker 8: you can do it, and you can make a career 560 00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:47,600 Speaker 8: out of it, you can be successful at it, you 561 00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:49,920 Speaker 8: can make you can have fun while you're doing it. 562 00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:52,880 Speaker 8: And I think that that is you know, not you 563 00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:55,560 Speaker 8: know it is the it's doing it and doing it 564 00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:59,240 Speaker 8: graciously and gracefully too. That is, I think. 565 00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:02,360 Speaker 1: That I've never compared myself to the skateboard I know, 566 00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:05,120 Speaker 1: I'm so impressed. 567 00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:09,280 Speaker 8: I think he would also compare himself to you, So 568 00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:11,040 Speaker 8: that's a good I. 569 00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:13,480 Speaker 3: Think it also means too that not only did you 570 00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:17,760 Speaker 3: make it okay, but you also made it cool, like 571 00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:21,200 Speaker 3: to be yourself and to be independent and to be 572 00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:23,280 Speaker 3: like so then it really became this path and it 573 00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:28,600 Speaker 3: became a cool thing, and so therefore even more acceptable. 574 00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:32,320 Speaker 8: It is funny how people still use these shoulds to 575 00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:35,320 Speaker 8: like define their lives. I mean, I'm not legally married, 576 00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:38,360 Speaker 8: but I have like the most heteronormative life and I 577 00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:40,000 Speaker 8: even have like a station wagon and a dog. 578 00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:41,720 Speaker 1: So but the. 579 00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:44,239 Speaker 8: Friends who and just other people in the world who 580 00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:48,400 Speaker 8: were the most threatened by it were people who wanted 581 00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:51,360 Speaker 8: to make different choices but didn't feel invited to or 582 00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:53,840 Speaker 8: that they could. And there's this I get this sense 583 00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:55,760 Speaker 8: of like, oh, I would have done that too, but 584 00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:58,200 Speaker 8: my parents wouldn't have allowed it, or and I think 585 00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:01,840 Speaker 8: that again, like Gloria didn't you know, yes, she's radical 586 00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:03,200 Speaker 8: in the sense of she's going to the root on 587 00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:06,640 Speaker 8: these issues, but you just did it without apologizing for 588 00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:08,960 Speaker 8: what you were doing. And I think that that is 589 00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:13,000 Speaker 8: people still want like permission to do something that's outside 590 00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:15,880 Speaker 8: of the box. And if only I could, And I think, 591 00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:18,360 Speaker 8: you know Gloria's examples, well I did you know? She 592 00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:20,320 Speaker 8: would never say that, but I think that it is. 593 00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:23,680 Speaker 5: You know, you have also been the source of attacks. 594 00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:26,479 Speaker 5: It hasn't been easy. We get to sit here and 595 00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:28,520 Speaker 5: praise you now, you. 596 00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:32,720 Speaker 10: Know, which is great, I have to say, but you 597 00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:35,360 Speaker 10: know there, you know, when you look at the vitriol 598 00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:38,719 Speaker 10: that's come your way, you know, how did that you 599 00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:40,000 Speaker 10: and how did you overcome that? 600 00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:44,080 Speaker 1: Well, when you say that to me, I imagine because 601 00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:47,960 Speaker 1: when Dorothy Pittman Hughes or Flow Kennedy or you know, 602 00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:52,800 Speaker 1: when we were speaking together, which actually we started out 603 00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:56,800 Speaker 1: partly because I was afraid to speak by myself, also 604 00:33:56,920 --> 00:34:00,560 Speaker 1: because I didn't want the women's movement to be presented 605 00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:02,680 Speaker 1: by one white woman. You know that at least we 606 00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:07,200 Speaker 1: could have a little diversity. So some hostile guy in 607 00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:11,840 Speaker 1: the audience would get up, and you know when Dorothy 608 00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:16,960 Speaker 1: or Flow Kennedy we were speaking together and say are 609 00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:21,359 Speaker 1: you lesbians? And Flow would always say, are you my alternative, 610 00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:22,400 Speaker 1: and it was. 611 00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:28,160 Speaker 8: Gluri would also respond with fact and Flow would say, 612 00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:31,800 Speaker 8: if you have a truck on your leg, it doesn't 613 00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:34,319 Speaker 8: matter how much the truck weighs. Get the truck off 614 00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:39,000 Speaker 8: my leg. Glour would always try to arm with stormline statistics. 615 00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:42,960 Speaker 1: I mean I did it out of both fear and friendship, 616 00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:45,120 Speaker 1: you know, because I was afraid to do by myself 617 00:34:45,160 --> 00:34:48,040 Speaker 1: and we were friends. But it taught me a lesson 618 00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:52,239 Speaker 1: about how important it is to do things together. That 619 00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:54,760 Speaker 1: illustrates whatever it is you're trying to say. 620 00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:57,319 Speaker 8: But I will say that you know, another lesson that 621 00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:01,520 Speaker 8: you have taught is you know you know some you know, 622 00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:04,680 Speaker 8: your enemies also say a lot about you. And there's 623 00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:05,960 Speaker 8: a lot of out there that I want as my 624 00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:08,440 Speaker 8: enemy because I don't want to be on their side, 625 00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:09,239 Speaker 8: to be on their side. 626 00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:10,280 Speaker 6: Can you say that again? 627 00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:13,160 Speaker 1: That was brilliant The enemies. 628 00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:15,600 Speaker 8: You want them as enemies because you don't want them 629 00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:19,480 Speaker 8: to be on your side. And I think that the 630 00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:21,440 Speaker 8: heart and this is I can speak personally about this. 631 00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:23,719 Speaker 8: I think the harder criticism is when it comes from 632 00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:28,400 Speaker 8: people that are around you. And and you know, criticism 633 00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:31,160 Speaker 8: is one thing, but the hatred or the hatred is 634 00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:34,880 Speaker 8: maybe too extreme for a word. The undermining or the jealousy, 635 00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:37,040 Speaker 8: and I'm sure you and I'm sure you experience this. 636 00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:40,120 Speaker 8: I'm sure you're I'm sure your parents experience this. But 637 00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:43,879 Speaker 8: the hardest thing for me to watch is when supposed 638 00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:48,320 Speaker 8: allies of Glorias will kind of try to subtly undermine 639 00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:51,600 Speaker 8: her or be mean to her, and you know and 640 00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:54,200 Speaker 8: quite frankly jealous of you know, maybe that she can 641 00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:56,880 Speaker 8: withstand certain things that other people can and that's so 642 00:35:56,920 --> 00:35:59,719 Speaker 8: I think the vitriol that comes maybe that's too extreme 643 00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:02,520 Speaker 8: for But I would say the more latent, like passive 644 00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:04,960 Speaker 8: aggressiveness that comes from the people that are supposed to 645 00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:07,680 Speaker 8: be your friends and your allies is kind of the hardest. 646 00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:08,799 Speaker 3: How do you deal with it? 647 00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:20,120 Speaker 1: Well? Fortunately I have Amy. Yeah, No, I mean you 648 00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:27,400 Speaker 1: friends are chosen family, right, and you always need this circle, 649 00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:31,239 Speaker 1: but sometimes you need it more than before. You know, 650 00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:38,360 Speaker 1: when you're really feeling unjustly accused or wounded or ridiculed 651 00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:42,280 Speaker 1: or whatever it is. So you need to be willing 652 00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:48,040 Speaker 1: to ask for help or ask for comfort or say, okay, 653 00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:52,960 Speaker 1: am I fucking up? Here? Is that the problem? If so? 654 00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:54,920 Speaker 1: Tell me, you know you need that. 655 00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:58,279 Speaker 8: One of the punishments of being a recognizable person, and 656 00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:01,400 Speaker 8: I'm sure you've experienced this in your own lives, is 657 00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:04,719 Speaker 8: that people stop telling you the truth. You know, either 658 00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:07,120 Speaker 8: because they're they're in a position to try to protect you, 659 00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:11,160 Speaker 8: or because you think that you're above it, so they're like, 660 00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:13,200 Speaker 8: I'm not gonna I mean, I'll never forget being at 661 00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:15,279 Speaker 8: a table with the famous person. They had food in 662 00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:17,160 Speaker 8: their teeth and nobody was telling them, and I was like, 663 00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:19,640 Speaker 8: excuse me, you have food, you have spinach in your teeth, 664 00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:22,960 Speaker 8: and you know, just subtle things like that. And I 665 00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:26,560 Speaker 8: do think that that honesty and being able to say, Gloria, 666 00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:28,239 Speaker 8: you shouldn't have said that, or you know, you know, 667 00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:30,680 Speaker 8: is something that you really need when you are in 668 00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:32,560 Speaker 8: a higher profile position. 669 00:37:33,239 --> 00:37:37,200 Speaker 7: Lauria, what have you learned from Amy about how the 670 00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:42,560 Speaker 7: next generation leads differently and what gives you hope watching them? 671 00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:46,520 Speaker 1: We just did a speaking thing together, sort of. I mean, 672 00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:52,399 Speaker 1: Amy was asking me questions and and and we work 673 00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:54,680 Speaker 1: together a lot, but I don't always get to see 674 00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:58,200 Speaker 1: her in public, and I thought to myself, this woman 675 00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:04,440 Speaker 1: is brilliant. Think you right. Hopefully we're able to continue 676 00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:10,880 Speaker 1: to appreciate each other in different ways and also constructively 677 00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:15,000 Speaker 1: criticized to help us become better. Not be afraid to 678 00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:20,040 Speaker 1: do that, and that is like the very best part 679 00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:23,160 Speaker 1: of a family. We do it with our children, I think, 680 00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:27,040 Speaker 1: even though I don't, but we sometimes forget to do 681 00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:27,880 Speaker 1: it with our friends. 682 00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:30,879 Speaker 11: We're so inspired being in your home, I just can't 683 00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:33,200 Speaker 11: have to ask you a very personal question. Behind the 684 00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:35,759 Speaker 11: kings is a beautiful photo for those who are not 685 00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:39,719 Speaker 11: able to watch and see of an elephant being very 686 00:38:39,719 --> 00:38:41,600 Speaker 11: close to maybe a young monk or a young person 687 00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:44,319 Speaker 11: who's reading. I see elephants here, I see beautiful door 688 00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:46,640 Speaker 11: from India. I see elephants of course too, are left. 689 00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:48,400 Speaker 11: What do you love most about elephants? 690 00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:53,040 Speaker 1: Elephants are my totem. You know, they're huge, they're gentle, 691 00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:56,319 Speaker 1: they don't hurt anything, they don't kill anything. They eat 692 00:38:56,360 --> 00:39:01,720 Speaker 1: the bark off trees. They're matrilineal, very kind of ideal 693 00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:03,000 Speaker 1: people lovely. 694 00:39:03,239 --> 00:39:07,320 Speaker 8: Someone just reshared this photo yesterday for Gloria's eightieth birthday. 695 00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:11,239 Speaker 8: Group people had gone to Botswana, and some of those people, 696 00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:13,880 Speaker 8: including Gloria and another friend, had been to the same 697 00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:19,200 Speaker 8: location maybe eight years before, and the oldest in the group. 698 00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:22,160 Speaker 8: Kathy came right up to Gloria and this other woman 699 00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:25,480 Speaker 8: and took the trunk and wrapped around the two of them. 700 00:39:25,520 --> 00:39:28,480 Speaker 8: Someone just reshared the photo yesterday, but it is you know, 701 00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:29,280 Speaker 8: they don't forget. 702 00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:32,520 Speaker 5: Well, it's been such a privilege to watch this friendship 703 00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:36,040 Speaker 5: and a privilege to be able to sit in your home. 704 00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:38,080 Speaker 5: I just want to say that alone is a pinch 705 00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:40,480 Speaker 5: myself moments and listening to the two. 706 00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:42,440 Speaker 1: Of you have talking circles here all the time. 707 00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:45,560 Speaker 8: It's not that unique. 708 00:39:47,640 --> 00:39:50,240 Speaker 5: But in this conversation, in this podcast, in this broadcast, 709 00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:52,319 Speaker 5: we get a chance to sit with icons when you 710 00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:54,560 Speaker 5: pause and look in your life, just to reflect the 711 00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:57,480 Speaker 5: gratitude as we come to a close, your life has 712 00:39:57,760 --> 00:40:02,920 Speaker 5: taught and shown through action. Change is hard. Change happens 713 00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:08,720 Speaker 5: across decades, It happens across generations. It happens in homes 714 00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:13,200 Speaker 5: and kitchens and frontlines and pickets and workplaces and magazines 715 00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:17,680 Speaker 5: and printing, and it happens across multiple aspects. You remind 716 00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:21,319 Speaker 5: us that the need to constantly choose hope, to constantly 717 00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:26,160 Speaker 5: bring friendship and laughter and joy into conversations, and to 718 00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:31,960 Speaker 5: continuously not be defined by others' expectations. And it's been 719 00:40:32,040 --> 00:40:36,880 Speaker 5: such a privilege to be a witness to your friendship. Obviously, 720 00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:39,040 Speaker 5: to live in a world that you helped shape. The 721 00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:43,080 Speaker 5: world owes your debtic gratitude, and we all owe you 722 00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:45,719 Speaker 5: a debt of gratitude for joining us on my Legacy 723 00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:49,320 Speaker 5: and sharing your legacy with us. Thank you both today. 724 00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:55,240 Speaker 2: Thank you for joining us. If you enjoy today's conversation, subscribe, share, 725 00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:58,440 Speaker 2: and follow us on at my Legacy movement on social 726 00:40:58,480 --> 00:41:03,320 Speaker 2: media and YouTube. New episodes drop every Tuesday, with bonus 727 00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:08,000 Speaker 2: content every Thursday. At its core, this podcast honors doctor 728 00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:11,960 Speaker 2: King's vision of the beloved community and the power of connection. 729 00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:17,040 Speaker 2: A Legacy Plus Studio production distributed by iHeartMedia creator and 730 00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:21,520 Speaker 2: executive producer Suzanne Hayward co executive producer Lisa Lyle. Listen 731 00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:24,480 Speaker 2: on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.